#104 Importing Foreign Content & Experiences
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Hello everyone, I am with LJ, editor of the World of Chinese magazine, which commissions Middle Earth. Hi Aladdin. So LJ, what are the exclusive stories that you guys have worked on this issue 104? We focus on how urban Chinese residents are reconnecting with nature. So they are lacking nature now? Absolutely. They discovered that there is a serious lack of nature education among urban kids right now. It has a negative impact on them, but there is also a strong effort to change the situation.

In a related story, we explored how a well-designed zoo in Nanjing has attracted large group of followers and how it has inspired them to care more about nature and wildlife.

And so in this issue, what are the others' articles? Yeah, we also took a cruise ship down the Yangtze River, traced the history of game consoles in China, and uncovered why Hunan Cuisine in particular is taking China by storm right now. So dear listeners, if you want to know more and support the podcast, go to theworldofchinese.com and order your latest copy. It seems that we can only rely on ourselves. The earth has made the last return to China.

This is not a place for a man to hide. I think it's better to take the woman's body.

Link in the podcast description.

So, most of the time on this show we have talked about how local producer and artists create stories and content for China general public or even how Chinese companies try to tell their content abroad, see for example our latest episode 83. Despite the country reputation for being a difficult market for overseas cultural products due to local regulation, let alone the audience taste, some people do manage to bring the Chinese audience with international content.

To throw some numbers which go a bit all around the place, first of all, to go back a bit in history, even during the Qing Dynasty, only four years after it was published in England, Sherlock Holmes quickly made its way to China and became actually widely popular. So you see, everyone do appreciate good content no matter where it comes from and the time and space.

Now, more to talk about today. Currently, authorities have set an annual quota for importing foreign film, allowing only 34 movies into Chinese cinema. But yet, some of them can have a great box office. Recently, I don't know if you've seen it, but there was Alien Romulus that got 100 million USD at the box office in China. And that was the same number as the US box office.

In terms of publishing, in 2021, over 36 million foreign books were introduced to the Chinese market and that claims a monetary of over 250 million USD. We don't know how much those books were sold, but at least we can do see that there are some efforts. In terms of music, most international stars haven't come to China to make a show. And yet in terms of online platform, we can see that, for example, Cardi B has nearly 1 million fans on music platform NetEase since September 2024.

Not a bad number compared to our 30 million monthly listeners on Spotify. So today to talk about those topics and we're going to go more into the offline events such as exhibition and concert. So I have to guess with me. So first Marion Bertagna. Hello. Hello. So now it's the time where you self-present like you're in a party. You have your pitch elevator and you have to show how cool and important you are. Okay.

Hi, so I'm Marion Bertagna. I come from France. I live in Shanghai. I've been here for 15 years. I lived in Beijing before that, so I've been in China for a long time. I work as the director of a cultural agency called MB Projects. So MB Projects is a company that I created 10 years ago. We do...

We do strategy and operations in the cultural sector. So we help our clients build their cultural project. We work a lot for museums, for cultural institutions. We do a lot of, we help a lot of French cultural institutions to develop in China. So we work for the Centre Pompidou. We work for the Versailles Palace, Cartier Foundation. But we also work for Chinese institutions.

companies or Chinese institutions who want to develop projects and we work for brands and companies that have cultural projects. All right, next to you in the chat box, but also living in Shanghai, Yo-Yo, hello. I'm Yo-Yo Sun. So I used to work for the medical industry and after five years, I started doing the producer job and one very occasional case happened

I figured out, oh, okay, I know some people are in the concert industry. Then I want to bring more musicians from the foreign country to China market. All right. So we'll mainly talk about, is it easy money to actually bring foreign content and artists into China? What are the hurdles? And who are the people who are going to such exhibition, movies and concerts?

And more than just talking about foreign content enters China, it's also a story of how the audience taste might have changed over the years. That being said, we won't talk about how foreigners become like a KOL, key opinion leader and influencer. We've done a whole episode on that and you can check it. It's episode 77. And as usual, we're finished this panel conversation with a podcast usual quiz where one of our guests will win a prize.

Starting strong, I'm just wondering, you know, it's the usual question of, wow, there is 1.4 billion Chinese. If I sell one apple to every single one of them for $1, I'm going to make more than $1 billion. So I'm just wondering if tomorrow I start import foreign cultural projects in China, am I going to make a ton of money or it's still like a really niche market? Marion, maybe you've been doing this a bit longer than all of us combined. So I'm wondering if we start with you. Yeah.

Yes. Well, yeah, so I've been...

you know, organizing cultural projects of all sorts in China for the last 15 years. And so I've seen the public evolve. I mean, definitely there's more and more public and audience for cultural contents. So whether local or foreign, but there is definitely like a strong, you know,

developing audience for foreign contents. I think China is just so huge that it's hard to say just how the Chinese audience is, but it really depends

where you are, which city you are in. And obviously, I think like foreign contents have been shown more in bigger cities, in first tier cities, say Beijing, Shanghai, you know, Guangzhou and other, you know, big second tier cities. I think, for example, in Shanghai, there is very strong appetite for foreign contents. And it's been, you know, many years that

Chinese and local Shanghainese institutions and operators are bringing foreign programs. And there's always a huge appetite for that. It also depends what kind of projects you bring. I think all the big names will work very well, will easily sell their tickets.

But if it's a little, you know, lesser known, it will be harder to find your public. Now I'm turning to Yo-Yo. So what's interesting is that actually, so Yo-Yo, a partner, Christian Peterson-Clausen is actually one of the longer...

listener of the show like each time i go to shanghai i go and see them and it's something like this i often do those podcasts it's because like i talk to my friends and then that day chris told me oh you know yo-yo she's like importing those uh musician to shanghai and then like a lot of people are you know a lot of people are tuning in to you know see uh those uh to go to the concert that we organized and so i thought wow this sounds like so easy and yet at the same time maybe you

really hard. So, Yo-Yo, I was wondering if you could explain a little bit more about how you came with the idea of importing those musicians to China, like kind of, you know, the journey of doing it. Okay, so like before 10 years ago, when I just started my work, I saw a lot of like musicians coming to China. But reasonably, there's less like a concert

Just start the beginning of the year, I went to one time in Japan. I went to a jazz bar and I'm talking to the people who used to work for like a music industry, Shanghainese.

So staying in Japan for 30 years, then I started talking with him. Then we just have the idea, okay, now we're going to bring more musicians from the Japan industry come to China to make Shanghai's life more vivid. Not even Shanghai, it's also Beijing and Guangzhou, some of the big cities. So these are the musicians I really like. Just for example, like 3 Blind Mice.

Just like Mark Huong said, if the bigness is easy to sell in the big market, you are not difficult to find the target audience. But for the small name, it's very hard. You need to spend a lot of money to do a marketing, to make the people get to know them.

and it makes sense for the young people to listen to their music. Yo-Yo, you just mentioned the towns. The question is to both of you this time, like I'm wondering, like, are there some area, and by that I mean towns, where, you know, it's easier to sell ticket concert or set up an exhibition? Like, are there, what is like the tipi, where are the places where you organize those events? I would imagine it's basically like tier one cities and you are not yet going to, you know, smaller cities at the moment.

Yes, most of the concerts we are doing at the moment is for the tier one because the tier two city is very hard to sell the tickets. Yeah, because the average price

is still fitting in the market for the tier one and also to target the audience. We bring in big exhibitions to China and mostly I would say we do them in Shanghai and Beijing. So we bring large exhibitions from China

French institutions and we organize them in museums. So it's like very large projects that need a lot of funding. So there are very few institutions like museums in China that can actually afford such big exhibitions.

For example, say like an exhibition by the Centre Pompidou or an exhibition by Versailles Palace. You know, these kind of exhibitions, they need, you know, a large budget and also very strict rules.

for the hosting museums to be able to host such masterpieces. So there aren't so many museums that can handle those. And we work both with local public and private museums. And a lot of the projects

big private museums are in those big cities. I want to add one thing because for the concert you also have the part of the sponsor. Most of the sponsors, their company are all located in the tier one city. So they are most of the target customers also in that location.

So they wanted to have their own customers. So listen to the music, go to the exhibition in that part of the area. So it's very difficult. You can extend into the tier two or tier three city and to find your target customers. But for some, like some other cities are also growing. Like for example, I could cite like for visual arts, like I could mention cities like Chengdu or Hangzhou. Yeah. And the,

There's also a link with what Jojo just said, because also some of the exhibitions we work on, we also may have large, big sponsors, or they could also be exhibitions from, say, a luxury brown foundation. So they are also interested in those cities that have a developing clientele in those cities.

And the plus one thing I want to add it on is your customer image. Like for the rock music, these of the musician, the fans are all basically 80% they are in Beijing.

and in Chengdu, but in Shanghai or Guangzhou, they compared to Beijing. They are less. So, so all the things we need to consider all together for the sponsor, for industry, and also our target audience, their image. Now moving on. So you guys have targeted like a potential, uh, exhibition or a museum calls you and you're like, and they're like, Oh, I would like to, to have this exhibition come to China. Uh,

And then, or a musician that you find interesting, you know, like, oh, this person, we should definitely bring them on to, you know, make concert for them on the Chinese stage. Roughly, like, what are the main denting tasks that you have to achieve to make that work? And also, if you could, if we could touch a little bit about the regulation. So on our side, I mean, our company works both ways. I mean, we do so...

strategic consulting. So our clients can be either Chinese client or a foreign client. For example, we can work for Chinese museums that are looking for content. So for example, like some Chinese museums would come to us and say, do you have an exhibition? For example, because a lot of like museums have been built over the recent years in China, but they don't have collections. So they need to find exhibitions that

from other places to bring to their museums. And we also work for French clients, for example, French museums, French institutions that want to bring projects in China. So we can be their consultants by finding the right partners to bring their exhibitions. So we do both ways.

But for the Chinese clients talking about, you know, daunting tasks, like quite often they come to us, say, do you have an exhibition? And then but they don't really know what they want and what could work, etc. So what we do, what we offer them is to really think more strategically. What do you want to do? Like who's your public? What's your positioning? What's your business model, etc. So that's really what we provide is more like this strategic consulting and help them then from there.

go out and find projects that works to build their positioning and fits into their plan. Other than that, the difficulties in terms of, you were mentioning

more administrative issues, right? So this really depends on the type of exhibition because it's very different if you're bringing a very large heritage exhibition with high value artwork, maybe belonging to the country. So this can be more complicated in terms of paperwork to get the works inside

China. But this is actually, there's been many such exhibitions organized. So the biggest institutions, they're very used to doing that. So they know how to handle the customs and all the paperwork you need to bring in those masterpieces inside China. So I think for that, the real question is, who do you work with? Who are the partners?

So I think for foreign museums, for example, it will be easier to work with, you know, the largest, the biggest museums that have this expertise. Sometimes it was more difficult when museums were quite new because, you know, in China, lots of museums are very recent, like

be they, you know, private or public, but they were, you know, built or, you know, created just a few years ago. So for the beginnings, it was more difficult. Yeah, that's interesting. Quickly,

Me, because also, like I said in the introduction, I also do this now, the Metis, which is regarding film and TV. I do talk to Chinese audience in Chinese regarding like writing technique or even I give some tips about like how to find resources for free online outside. And I can sense that there are still like a huge and massive gap of knowledge.

decision maker and people in China regarding what could be available outside and the way to go with things also like connecting with a film festival abroad things like that so yeah I'm not so much surprised regarding you say

that, you know, sometimes people can be a little bit at last about, yeah, we want to do a project, but they don't really know how and when, and there's still like a huge gap of information. And regarding a museum, of course, like I should have mentioned, we've already done a podcast about this, like because China has more than 5,000 museums now. It's just, I think it's the country with the most museums in the world. And it's episode 60, the golden age of China museum. So Yo-Yo, yeah, regarding you, so I'm wondering like,

your daunting task like is it for you because from our prior conversation if i may say that like i guess like for you as an agent basically it's always a gamble like you bring those artists but like you have to take care like you run basically a producer and an investor job at the same time so you have to find the artists you have to bring them you have to do the marketing sell the tickets and basically if you fail like you're the one who's going to be left with a bag hanging

Yeah, the one you say, yes, if I do everything by myself, including the ticketing and also the consultation and the random number all by myself, it's just a gamble. If the second part, you also have a government purchasing the project, just like a Mahiung said, this could be very different. It's very opposite. Just like government wants to say, okay, I want a type of jazz musician, but they don't know which one. But you have the one maybe fit in their pocket.

Okay, they will say how much money they want to do for this one, then just run the number and then you can do it and you brought the musician come to the China and do the events, then finish. Okay, because in China the only one the difference is we have the censorship. What is the censorship? You need to check all the material, it is right on the market.

no matter how is the lyrics but also how it will sounds like and also the people including if they have a dance you need to also show what they wear on the stage these are the very small parts of the trivial scenes

Every part of the government will check all the material. Once they pass the censorship, everything, they will give you the paperwork, then you can apply for the visa. Okay, but what about all those musicians when you contact them and you're like, oh, I would have to propose you a gig in China or I would like to bring you over. Is it a hard sell for them or are they like, well, as long as you pay me, I don't care. Great, I will come.

50% of the musicians, if they have a chance to go abroad, they normally will be okay. Unless the musician, they have their own company, they sign the contract, then they will be very different. They will see your whole plan and they will check your company's identity, these are the things

to see if you have a capability to do the promotion for their musicians. I think, I mean, one thing that is, I think, sometimes a bit difficult, but it's also the interesting part of also coming to China to do an exhibition. I mean, if you...

If you come to China to do an exhibition exactly the same way you would do it in France, it's not interesting. I mean, if you're doing it in China, then you should also adapt to the situation here. And I think one...

difficult thing is to understand the public. Who will be the public coming to see your exhibition? And so what should you show in China? The real important part of it is the localization of the exhibition, how to adapt it to the local public. For example, also all the mediation will be completely different. You know, you cannot just

purely translate what you've done. For example, if you've done this exhibition in Europe and then you bring it to China and you can't just translate, sometimes it needs more explanations. Even if it's like, say, a Grand Master's exhibition,

A few years ago, we brought an exhibition from the Centre Pompidou and it was masterpieces from the Centre Pompidou. So within the exhibitions, you had a lot of big names, but then you would say, for example, in the audience, some people just knew one name, say Picasso, for example, or Picasso and Matisse.

But then you had a little more that also knew Chagall or maybe knew Brancusi or knew... So you have like all types of public. So the exhibition really worked well because, you know, they had those big names that can attract people to enter the exhibition. And then they also introduce, you know, lesser known artists and educate. So I think also the public education is a big...

is one important aspect of those exhibitions. If I may follow up on that, Marion, because you've been doing that job for some years now, have you seen the growth of knowledge regarding the public? Yes, totally. I said I used to be the cultural attaché at the French Consulate. I was doing that between 2010 and 2014.

And I remember at the very beginning when we brought, for example, like a contemporary dance show, it was very hard just to fill in, you know, one theater because there was very little audience for contemporary dance. You know, when I left the concert five years later, there were many more people already. The public is very...

is very committed, like when they see something they like and then they go, they research and also you have access to so much information online, etc. So now, for example, like just recently there was a contemporary dance show from France that came to Shanghai by a choreographer called Rashid Oramdan.

He had two performances in Shanghai. It was completely full. Or for example, say you have Pina Bausch playing in a few weeks. It's just impossible to buy tickets. And also you will see that it's very different from, for example, say France, like the public that goes to exhibitions or those public programs is very young. It's a much younger public than the public visiting exhibitions and museums in France, where French museums are struggling to renew the public.

and drag more young people to museums. Whereas in China, it's more young people and they want to learn. And also you see a lot of families who want their kids to learn and to know more about art. Yeah, I'm also wondering like all those families, they bring their kids to see art. I'm wondering what's kind of also the...

you know, the meaning of, oh, I need my kids to be the smartest in the room so that they can go get a good score in their Gaokao. But okay, that's maybe another topic for another day. Well, I mean, for the good score, like they would...

have them to register a class with tests and stuff like that. Yeah, that's a different... Another business model for sure. Moving on, there is one thing because for us, Marion, it is a special year because it is after all the 60 year of the friendship of France and China.

so we have seen like a lot of events you've worked personally uh on you know because the versailles castle has a send over like some object to the gugong palace like the forbidden city you also work on you know representing the versailles castle social media on weibo and so on and i'm wondering like because now both of you you work more in the private sector and you do work sometimes with local government and things like that but you are people you know working as like

private individual and and i'm just wondering in terms of this kind of a government to government cultural things you know like every embassy in china they try to bring their own dancer they do their film week like recently there was holland it's not like a dutch cinema is really famous in china but they do try to to do those things so i'm wondering like you as a professional and you see all those try to events offline and online being organized by uh

embassy do you think those have like a real impact on the Chinese public or it's just like for because sometimes I do go to those events and I'm wondering this kind of cultural diplomacy of embassies and so on and do they have a real impact on the Chinese public or it's just like you know just for happy few yeah so this year is like the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the diplomatic relations between France and China and

So there was a big focus on this diplomatic event and culture was definitely a big part of it. I think the embassy counted more than 400 events all around China for the whole year. There's a lot of things in there. I think it's not only diplomatic. I think there is such a long history of diplomacy

collaboration, cooperation between France and China. There are many, many, many actors involved. So there are, it's, there's a lot of collaborations between institutions, schools, universities,

There's a lot of also people who are in between France and China who keep doing projects in the cultural sector. So there's like a whole network and like a very wide net of those collaborations. It's not something that is just like an event for this year.

And I think what the embassy is trying to do is like to shed light on this because they're like also supporting, promoting, pushing, but it's all operated by, you know,

various actors and institutions and people and both public and private, etc. Otherwise, they would never be able to do 400 events like all throughout China. So I think there's like a real very strong...

you know, cooperation going on in all the fields of culture. And the fact that there's this diplomatic event, which is the 60th anniversary, just puts even more light on this. Well, I mean, it's a bit of a biased question that you're asking. Maybe you're thinking of some events that you saw. But because you could cite, for example, I mean,

If you say like Chateau de Versailles, do you count this as a, you know, there's a couple hundred thousand people who went to see those exhibitions and it had such a huge impact. I mean, I think it does have very big. So I think, you know, when you say they had like 400 events in China, they're all not the same events and they don't each have the same impact.

But I think it depends on the, I only know like what the French are doing. And I know it's really, you know, like very tailor-made projects, you know, and like always, I mean, some projects find their public, some don't, et cetera. But I think the way, you know, it functions is that they really try to find the best partners to organize the projects. I think it does have.

But also it really depends which embassy, etc. I mean, the French cultural department is just very strong, whereas other countries don't have such a team and means to do things.

But the French have very strong cultural self-power. Yeah, yeah. One of my clients, like they told me that the French embassy in China regarding culture are basically the best. Yo-Yo, I'm just wondering, like, because you bring people who most of the time maybe don't have like such...

Huge followers in China. I guess it's not just like you bring the person over and you do poster like can you explain a little bit about the whole marketing process of social media and so on did you win all the time or did you fail sometime I win most of the time but I need to wear the selected to the artists like the big label big name you have to fix the audience so who were just like want to listen to their music and

on the stage because never been to China market before. Like Yamamoto Tsuyoshi from the Street Blood Vice, Mitsukashi Takashi also good. And the next year we also have the big names will come to the China market.

So for the marketing side, because they have already have a fixed jazz group, so like a WeChat group, you have to fix the target audience. So for the promotion part, it will be much easier for you. You just let a person to spread the news or message to the group. Everybody knows he will come. After that, you need to cooperate with QQ, some like Spotify, Chinese Spotify, work with them, do a lot of like showcase.

Let the people to talk about their music and then influence the young generation to listen to their music so you can express your audience. The other parts, if I did not well choose the target audience or choose the well-choosen musician, like the flamenco, Japanese flamenco. Flamenco is pretty popular in Beijing and Shanghai.

but which I did like a Japanese flamenco but people don't really know about the Japanese flamenco so I need to spend a lot of time to find the resources prepare the material and do a lot of promotion need to convince a lot of people who like the flamenco but change their mind to accept

Japanese flamenco. Basically, no promotion, no ticket is being sold. It's not good enough to bring someone famous. You have to work a lot of time on the promotion to tell people that the artist is coming. Otherwise, no one's going to buy the tickets. Let me say one trick. If you see the Spotify, this guy is very famous. But you look at the Chinese like Spotify, Google Music or Wang Yibo, you see they don't have any fans. Then you need to spend a lot of money. You do the promotion.

If in Spotify and also in CueGoo Music, Chinese Cue Music and Wang Yi Wing, they have same, equal, the musician fans, but they has not been bought to China market, then you can do it. Because they have fans, it's just nobody talk about it, but it doesn't mean they don't have their fans. Then you can do the market, will be easy for you to do.

If people don't know, more money, more promotion and more risk. It's not enough your famous artist from abroad. As the Chinese agent, you have to work a lot on telling about the concert is happening. Yes, you need to spread, let every person know that. Every person who touches or likes this type of music to know he will come or she will come. So we all know that right now the economy is definitely contracting. So I...

I'm wondering how you guys see the future with the fact that maybe when the economy is doing less, then definitely people maybe don't want to spend so much money on frivolities such as museum tickets and concert and cinema. So I'm wondering how you guys are seeing the future. Yes, well, it's true, especially the tickets for museums.

are quite expensive. So I think people will be careful, you know, how many exhibitions they see, etc. Or they will, you know, inquire really a lot about the exhibition before deciding to buy the ticket. So it's more difficult. But like the general trend is still that, you know, this market is growing and there's more museums. And also you should differentiate between public and private museums, right?

It's a bit easier for public museums. They can have cheaper tickets and also they have public funding. But I think the private museums are struggling a bit more and some are backed by real estate companies so they can even be in bigger difficulties. But I think globally the trend is that there's a bigger audience for museums and also museums are trying to find more ways to attract people

Also, they're trying to find to do more like immersive shows within the museums, etc. So it's still like a dynamic sector, but definitely some actors will be in bigger, like will be struggling more, whereas other ones will still be doing OK and really want to bring also foreign exhibitions. So I think there's still, you know, lots of opportunities to seize.

And also there's like cities that still have a big margin for growth and that are growing in this field. So, you know, if you find your niche and find the way to do things, there's still, you know, many opportunities. Yeah, I totally agree. There's a lot of like opportunities. You just really well selected your target audience and know who...

what musician they like it. And then you still like a niche of the market and very unique as well. Pick the musicians. You do a lot of work and analysis before you sign the contract. Yeah, I agree with you. It's really a question also about...

Maybe in the past, you know, you could do anything, just try. But I think now you need to be more careful. Think about, you know, what to bring. Sometimes in the past you had, you know, at the same time, two exhibitions by the same artist. What? In the same city. So, yes, you know, for example, a Dali exhibition. So I think, you know, now...

Because not all exhibitions work, etc. So you need to think more. What are you bringing? Who are you targeting? Who is going to be interested in that? Where do you do it? What's the price of your ticket? Etc. But if you do that, then I think you can have good opportunities.

The population of Shanghai is a couple of Central European countries, I guess. We could have two daily exhibitions. But yeah, joke aside, that's good to know. Find your niche. That's what people should do. Well, thank you everyone for sharing all of this. Well, I'm glad to know that there are maybe still some opportunities. That's also why I do this podcast is to do my own research and see what opportunities are out there. But that's good to know regarding the niche market.

So now to end this great conversation with my favorite part of the show, the quiz, where we'll see who is the most knowledgeable among our guests. So the rules are simple. I will ask you guys a few questions. If you know the answer, you first buzz in with your name. Each correct answer gives you a point and the person with the most points obviously wins the quiz.

and the winner of the quiz will receive the latest issue of the World of Chinese magazine. Question number one. Can you tell me which foreign movie grossed the highest box office in China? Please do not Google the answer. Yes, Marion. Okay. I... Titanic? Say no, Marion. It is not Titanic.

Transformers. It is more recent, but it's not Transformers. It is the IP of the Marvel movies. No, sorry. I don't know. Okay, okay, okay. You know what? I feel like Yo-Yo is more onto the Marvel IPs. So I will give you a point because I don't want you guys to, you know, go through every single one of those movies. Yeah. Yeah.

I'll let it to her. Okay. I'll leave it to her. Okay, so the answer was adventure and game because it reached like 4.5 billion yuan. So we're still like way, way above Alien Romulus. Okay, so Yo-Yo, you win the first point of this question. Okay, question number two.

Can you tell me which famous artist recently came touring in Hainan Highland? Yo-Yo, Kanye. Yeah, so Kanye West. So Kanye West went to Hainan. Can you share a little bit regarding that story, Yo-Yo? So I think they sell for like 600,000, 600,000, no, 600,000,000.

600 million 600 million 600 million yes 600 million degenerate not including not only the ticketing for the whole two days including the hotel or food restaurant in Hainan

two days so they generated this kind of revenue okay so now the quiz has three questions so I think we know we're gonna win the quiz but at least maybe Marion can lose with some dignity so now we're gonna play question three let's play guess the number during the late Qing dynasty there is a scholar called Lin Shu and he was a scholar and a law official who actually never set a foot outside of China yeah

unfortunately in this poor man's life, like he was depressed because he lost his wife and his mother roughly at the same time. And to overcome this horrible moment in his life, a friend of him who studied in Paris tried to cheer him up by orally told him some foreign books that then Lin Shu rewrote using classical Chinese. He was the first biggest translator of foreign book. Can you tell me how many novels is translated?

And he wrote like a lot of them and he had a lot of various writers such as Charles Dickens, Leon Tolstoy and Cervantes. So each of you will say a number, how many novels he has translated over his life. And then the one closest to the real number will win the point. So Yo-Yo, how many novels do you think he translated? Okay, I think maybe 11. 11 novels, okay. Marion, how many novels do you think he translated? Maybe 30. Well,

Well, Marion, you are closer to the number, but it's still by... Yay! But it's a long shot. He translated over 160. Very energetic. Yeah, and actually, I find the most amazing is that he didn't speak English nor French, and he never went outside of China. But he was like the first big translator. Retelling, retelling. Yeah, that's the reason why I ask you, how many years he has been working on the translation part of

Several years. Okay, that's 164. Wow, that's a lot of work. Well, thank you. So congratulations, Yo-Yo. You win the quiz. We'll send you a copy of The World of Chinese to your doorstep. And thank you guys for joining today's recording. Merci.

Merci. On that note, we'll wrap up the show. Glad to have you until the end, dear listener. I guess you like that show. And if you do, you can help the Middle-Left Podcast to grow by recommending us to your friends. To keep extending on that topic, don't hesitate to check out the article of the World of Chinese magazine and the podcast episode that we have mentioned.

All of those have a link in the podcast description. Let me remind you that Middle Earth is part of TWC, the World of Chinese Podcast Network. If you want to know more behind the headlines, go to theworldofchinese.com and order your latest copy. Also, if you are impressed by this show guest and need to find an interviewee for your next documentary piece or use a researcher in China, you can give us a call. Today's episode was produced and edited by Aladin Fahre, with thanks to Chris for putting me in touch with some of the guests, and distributed by the World of Chinese Podcast Network. Hope to see you next time. Bye-bye.

Looks like our listeners are still doing their dishes. We're really committed to their workout. For sure. Since you're still here, if you want to learn more about Chinese society, culture, and language, you should head to theworldofchinese.com and follow us on WeChat, TikTok, and Instagram, where you'll discover an impressive collection of award-winning in-depth stories and fun, informative videos, as well as amazing podcasts. Of course. Well, until the next issue then.