cover of episode EP33. 对话河森堡:正念是焦虑抑郁的一剂疫苗

EP33. 对话河森堡:正念是焦虑抑郁的一剂疫苗

2024/8/27
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河森堡
王丫米
王思思
Topics
河森堡:分享了自身长达15个月的严重焦虑体验,症状包括失眠、体重骤降和持续的恐惧感,并强调战胜焦虑的终极秘诀是'该干什么干什么',不要试图直接对抗焦虑情绪。他认为焦虑像一个占用大量内存的无用程序,干扰正常生活。在明亮开阔的环境中散步有助于缓解焦虑,而狭小封闭的环境则会加重焦虑。经历极度焦虑并战胜它后,会获得脱胎换骨的体验,并对自身能力产生新的认知。他将正念比作疫苗,可以降低焦虑和抑郁的发生率和严重程度。 王丫米:分享了自身严重的焦虑体验,痛苦到想跳楼。她认为焦虑症比抑郁症更普遍,许多人都有类似的焦虑体验。她认为正念练习可以提升注意力、记忆力、判断力等认知能力,并可以帮助应对成瘾问题。 郭婷婷:作为主持人,引导讨论,并补充专业知识,例如区分焦虑状态和焦虑特质,以及解释正念练习的科学基础。 王思思:详细解释了正念练习的核心在于觉察和接纳,觉察自己的情绪和状态,并以接纳的态度对待它们。她强调接纳是正念练习中一个重要的方面,需要持续练习才能提升。正念练习中允许不舒服的感觉存在,并与之共处,有助于提升应对负面情绪的能力。她还解释了疲劳分为认知疲劳、情绪疲劳和身体疲劳三种,正念练习可以提升对疲劳的觉察能力,并及时调整。正念练习可以带来平静、好奇心和自我价值探索的快乐,并且长期练习会分泌内啡肽,带来生理层面的快乐。

Deep Dive

Key Insights

What are the physical symptoms of severe anxiety experienced by He Senbao?

He Senbao experienced severe insomnia, losing 10 pounds in two weeks, and constant feelings of being in danger. He described his heart racing, sweating, and a fight-or-flight response triggered even in safe environments like his bedroom.

Why does He Senbao compare severe anxiety to being chased by a lion?

He compares severe anxiety to being chased by a lion because the body's fight-or-flight response is triggered, similar to the reaction one would have when facing a life-threatening situation, even though the perceived danger is not real.

What role does mindfulness play in managing anxiety and depression?

Mindfulness acts like a vaccine for anxiety and depression. It doesn't eliminate the possibility of experiencing these emotions but reduces their intensity and frequency, making it easier to manage them when they arise.

What is the ultimate strategy He Senbao suggests for overcoming anxiety?

The ultimate strategy is to continue doing what you normally do, without focusing on the anxiety. By engaging in regular activities like work or study, the brain's focus shifts away from anxiety, allowing it to naturally subside over time.

How does He Senbao describe the long-term effects of enduring severe anxiety?

After enduring 15 months of severe anxiety, He Senbao felt a profound transformation, describing himself as more resilient and brave. He realized that he could handle extreme stress, which gave him a new perspective on life's challenges.

What is the difference between mindfulness and spiritual practices?

Mindfulness is a form of scientific meditation focused on improving daily life, such as managing anxiety, enhancing focus, and improving decision-making. Unlike spiritual practices, it does not aim for mystical experiences or altered states of consciousness.

What is the importance of acceptance in dealing with anxiety?

Acceptance is crucial in managing anxiety because it allows individuals to acknowledge their feelings without judgment. This reduces the internal struggle against anxiety, making it easier to cope and eventually reduce its intensity.

How does mindfulness help with addiction?

Mindfulness helps with addiction by allowing individuals to observe their cravings without acting on them. By staying present with the craving, they can notice it rise to a peak and then subside, reducing the urge to engage in addictive behaviors.

Chapters
本期节目邀请到科普作家河森堡和播客主理人王丫米,分享他们与焦虑和抑郁斗争的亲身经历。河森堡老师将焦虑比作被狮子追赶,描述了失眠、体重骤降等症状;王丫米老师则坦言曾因焦虑难受至想跳楼。他们分享了焦虑带来的身体和心理痛苦,以及焦虑发作时的感受。
  • 河森堡老师形容焦虑像被狮子追赶,持续15个月,伴随严重失眠、体重骤降等症状。
  • 王丫米老师也经历了严重的焦虑,感到非常痛苦,甚至想过跳楼。
  • 两位都分享了焦虑给他们带来的身体和心理上的巨大痛苦,以及焦虑发作时的感受。

Shownotes Transcript

这期节目,是我们和一块心病的串台。

前段时间,暂停实验室的老朋友,「一块心病」的主播王丫米老师来找我们,说想约上河森堡老师,一起聊聊焦虑的话题。

丫米老师曾是抑郁症患者,河森堡老师也曾经历过严重焦虑,和焦虑斗争了大概 15 个月才走出来,在这期间,他说自己被「焦虑之神」按在地上狠狠踩踏:经历了严重的失眠、两周内体重就掉了 10 斤,还总是觉得自己置身于巨大的危险之中......

丫米老师前段时间也经历了同样的困扰,她说每当焦虑来袭的时候,「自己难受的想跳楼」。

作为两个亲历者,他们想一起聊一聊,在焦虑中可以用哪些方法来帮助自己。河森堡老师说,他尝试过各种方法,正念对他的帮助很大,丫米老师是暂停实验室的长期练习者,也提到了正念对自己的帮助,所以他们也想跟我们聊一聊,正念为什么能帮助到被焦虑和抑郁困扰的人,这背后的原理到底是什么。

这期节目,就是暂停实验室的创始人郭婷婷,和正念主创王偲偲跟他俩的聊天。

他们作为亲历者,非常生动地分享了自己身在焦虑中的体验,以及到底是怎么走出来的。

如果你也被焦虑所困扰,希望找到缓解的方法,这期播客应该会对你有所启发,也欢迎你把这期节目分享给你认为可能会需要的人。

河森堡:科普作家,曾经历并打败重度焦虑,他形容自己当时的焦虑程度,就像日夜被狮子追着跑。

王丫米:播客「一块心病」主理人,科普工作者,菠萝科学奖策划人,鸟群计划发起人,抑郁症病人。

Timeline:

  • 02:33 河森堡:被焦虑之神按在地上踩踏的感觉,太痛苦了
  • 23:08 战胜焦虑的终极秘诀:该干什么干什么
  • 28:15 正念就是应对焦虑抑郁的一剂疫苗
  • 30:15 正念和灵修有区别吗
  • 38:41 接纳是走出焦虑的第一步,但接纳自己状态不好太难了!
  • 45:24 正念解决焦虑的方法:直面焦虑,和焦虑待在一起
  • 53:47 可以把正念当成一种获取快乐的方式吗?

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