Bits + Bips With Nic Carter: Trump’s Promises, Kamala’s Shift & ETH’s ‘Narrative Problem’ - Ep. 681
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For me, to me, the most important thing is not the fat at this point is is the for political right, not for equities, is the the trump camera play is like who wins? That's what really we really care about the most. I think till november.

everyone welcomed the bits of bits expLoring how crypt O A micro collide one basis point in the time i've your host team, safer trade by archives ter, lord, a blueberry out fruit cougar macro of house as guard protector of the road and john became lord commander raceme metric and master bomb.

We had discuss the latest stories, the world of critter, a maco news, to remember that nothing you say here as a investment advice, please shout unchain critter dc on lash, bits of bits from war disclosures. Also joining us today is a man that needs no introduction. Nick Carter, word of castle island, distorted of livers.

Kai, combat influencer, champion of the world. You really don't need an introduction, but I also, you are roque. And then can we can dive and talking about the big conference.

thanks. jm. C, I, M, A, G, P castle and we invested in on the security side and um businesses in the crib of space.

And for some reason i'm an amateur ghi now as well. So undefeated. Want to know to know okay, fighter, so that's no thing about me too.

Don't worry guys, we are gonna into the krai combat fight ah but here the first let's let's dive into the bitcoin conference key. Take away, I guess, before even getting talking to trumps speech and what was there any key takeaway you guys had, I guess turn IT over the U L. It's what was something you were watching you you noted that you pay close to attention to.

I mean, I think I have and we have so many takeout, all of us. But I mean, this I think was one of the most incredible moment in in in history for crypto a uh overall uh, we can go from like from from things from said to to the markets reaction to to people's reaction, which is not the same as the market right.

Um first of all I ve got to say is like so so today for traders, we uh uh during the conference Price of like pretty much stopped every every short term guy out spiking up and down there was quite significant 的 uh by the news， sell the rumor into uh into the event uh then trump, I think he delivered everything or almost everything that we would have expected uh from him and we had like a quiet, surprisingly quiet weaken and then then uh into the open. Yesterday we run up to like sixty, almost seventy. Today we hit seventy thousand on the dot and later and then warm.

Uh so it's it's very significant because it's we we had a varies very significant news hit the tape. We run up to seventy thousand again and went straight down. Uh, seven, seven, eight percent are down to sixty six. Pretty brutal movement. And uh, if today I was away from the market, but if I had so I I may have to need something.

It's monday, by the way, but if I had to rush, analyze what happened I think is the camera haris stride is the market putting emphasis and and on the polls that are coming very strong for for camera and uh and the reason i'm saying this is because if you look at small caps, small caps is a key component of the trumpet trader, meaning trump is good for small caps. Small caps to they are down one point two percent, one point one. They wear like sharply up on the open, then then dropped, not a collapse, but but a significant move down. And in the meantime, tex talks are flat in the day the doll is up. So I think is the the camera trade and and basically bitcoin is the main or one of the main A A place in this trump camera today.

Are you guys think i'll add a little bit this was the market structure color there. So um I think alex is point about the commoner trade has some credence to IT, but I do want to point out a couple things that happened over the weekend and then certainly on on the cash equities open for the stock market on monday. Um so one week like at the money evolves uh in options for a bitcoin.

We're like seventy five on saturday. There were fifty today. And so a lot of people were buying um August second, which is the exploration for this week in in kind of uh in view of the the trump speech, which you kind of make sense, right, if you think he's going to say so and that's really material that can move market.

Pri wanted get labor join through options um but after his speech, those wall started to come down really fast and today the same thing happened right you had you had a you know asia um like to at this point they were buying all through other day even europe you pushed him up to called seventy k to the tech then the cash equally open happen walls got crushed and you know the the the the cell programs began. And you can just look at like the chart for the from near nine thirty easter into four P M easter. And it's basically straight down sel programs.

Now why did that happen? More more sellers than buyers. But more importantly, um there's also like there's also a lot of of basis trading that still goes on and folks tend to they can sell uh the C M E futures um and and by the underlying uh etf as as kind of like a quasi basic strate, if you will.

But we've seen this now last week, monday through thursday was just offered heavily ahead of the truth. You know uh, speech at the conference on on friday, we caught a bit and here we are monday again, up near seven k and is just heavily offered to get now the one cabi at all that that alex s was somewhat looting to. There is this really powerful universe, correlation between bitcoin Price and NASA.

And when IT goes heavily negative is usually a bottom for bitcoin. So we saw this actually a couple weeks ago. Today, NASA was up, the coin was down.

We've got huge tech earnings later this week. So that could be factory into how some folks are playing this correlation trade. I would suspect that if tomorrow, wednesday, when the air nice that is down, you'll probably see me the point up yeah I mean.

we tell us last time, I think that break down in their relationship. But I actually I have a mtoni c at the bitcoin conference on on thursday for people with there for the industry panel, and I got them to we can get into the stuff that he said.

But he talked about how this break down and correlations between bitcoin and tex ox is a very good thing for as part of concern, a lot of their clients care about the fact that bitcoin has low to zero correlation real asset. So the fact that I was so correy to tech stocks in some of the run up as what was going with the right to last couple years was not necessarily a good thing. He also said that he basically didn't like the fact that people were calling bitcoin a risk on asset.

He thought that was doing a disservice to what big coin was, which I kind didn't get a different big for a long time. I kind of view IT as a bit of risk on asset. But to hear black rocks heads of digital assets basically making that same argument as I used to hearing from hard work, big questions, I thought IT was pretty powerful. Nick, could do you have anything to add but work robers some of your key takeaway. You disagree with some of the marketing topics that joan also talking with.

Well, just on alex this point. The chemical trade is interesting because you trumps the favorite in the prediction markets as far as I can tell. But then we see very strong polls.

Fain canals. I I don't really know where the market stands on that. I haven't seen her prospects haven't seen alling that much in the prediction markets.

But the polls and just the general enthusiasm I C and her improvement and favorability on the democratic base does suggest that she's rilling here. And certainly um you know we haven't seen any real indications that he would favour back in anyway. So I think describing backend is part of the trump trade is accurate. So yeah, that's just something that continue to puzzling about the market is the divergence between prediction markets and then the actual polling yeah.

I think that I think got based by my thing is that I thought was like june I was like trump was heavily favored our trump was slightly favoured in june and he really started picking up after that debate and now he's backed out and trumps might only be slightly fat as far as the polling goes. I think part of that might be that I think the prediction markets, people tend to probably lean right would be my guess.

I think we probably have the discount, the prediction market present jobs, but that who I I don't know any academic or real research, but that's just my my england in finding that I that i've seen out there. As far as the trump speech goes, I don't know if you guys a Greener, i'll tell you my o overall thoughts. I was there alive, almost sleep at some points. But I mean, he basically delivered like ninety nine percent of what people hope to dream that trump would say. And people in my benches were acting like IT was the worst speech ever and he didn't say anything that people wanted to say.

And people were company with the same. This people on the internet, or upset about something weird that I .

feel like every these people, like they just have never seen trump speak before, or something like that was like he just rely on them like this is exactly how trumped us. Every other speech he hit everything he wanted.

He said he's gna fire gary ginza er, he said he's going to end the war and Crystal, he said you were shared out, nick, he said he was going to end show point two point o congrats on active for those that don't know that the coin that term, um I mean, he was said he was going to add us at what word did you use uh, a stock pile, a bitcoin stock pilot add strategic reserve but he said he's going to hold all the bit I mean, I don't know what else anyone could want a cyperus fact that they just don't like trumps speech yle, which honestly isn't that crazy. Consider the way that he does, he says anything. But also to unix, how ford were you and when he called out show point two point out.

yeah I mean, he's getting advice some from some very smart people um and IT is remarkable that I wrote blog post on praise and that became part of the political discourse in this country. Blow my mind actually .

and you actually explained for the the listeners what yeah choke point two point there .

is yeah so cook point one point that was the actual name of a official program under the above A B administration to marginalize certain types of businesses that they didn't like uh through on constitutional means.

Basically by having bank regulators apply pressure to the banks to apply pressure of payment processors to on bank or um d risk certain businesses primarily uh gun manufacturers, pay day lenders and then all sorts of other the adult industry, all sorts of businesses, some of them politically this favorite like firearms, and then some were just brand of ministries that were targeted by the obama admin. They called IT track point. That wasn't something that the sound so cynical.

Ter, that was the official name for incredible. And that sort of ended, basic ended when trump came in office after F, T, X. In january of twenty three.

A similar thing resumed, primarily the fed in the F, G, I, C, where the driving forces and the sherley F, T, I see Green burger on her. Biden was the same one. He was in office on her trump. He done IT before he was. He was in office on obama story.

And is similar play a book basically banks going, or rather federal financial regulators going to banks and using in situations to and threats and telling them to d banks, certain industries, and specifically crypto l and I feel that they did IT after fx because at that point they felt that the political air cover to do IT and IT works. I mean, you know if you're early stage start up in cyp zone, you you want to get to access to banking, its very hard. It's very expensive IT IT was very effective and it's still effect.

We are the ones that call the choke one two one o because it's very reminiscent of one point. Now that's not the official name for that. Um but I I mean, IT is extremely sensor and it's really chAllenged the industry domestically and remains a huge ge problem. So is very, very meaningful, I think, to the entire industry that trumps specifically .

called that out. Yeah I agree. I mean, we talked, I think on one of the first episodes of bits and bits about when the F D I C chair step down was like all this kind c events were happening with respect the the bad ministration on cypher, I think was in may time frame.

And we reference choke points. I mean, as a you know somebody running an investment firm in digital assets, I know you know this all too well. IT is incredibly difficult to get any sort of banking related services in our portfolio companies running the same issue. So to see IT as part of this, like you know, political discourse from a presidential candidate whose a former president, irrespective of your views on politics, you for against trump like it's pretty remarkable and you actually mention this in a in a tweet that um you you you so ride fully got to post a shirtless photo of yourself after you one here fight you talk about a couple of things and and I don't want to like h spoil IT for for the lisser or the viewers but can you maybe you talk about uh no show point to point out in there but the spirit of the tree, I think resonated with a lot of people about what you can actually do. And can you maybe just talk a little bit about that and the the the the points that you made in there and then we can .

obviously dig into the fight yeah people of this treatment so obviously contexts that I want to codify despite never having fought ever i've never thrown a punch, had any not even a school yard fight.

I was in a fighter and um you know the point is you like anyone, become anything obviously, given various caveat, if you do have desire and discipline, that's a um and now I think the point of the tree is you know you have agency and you just have to do you know pursue IT and that goes for getting into mix martial arts as a untrained person and that goes for my reporting around choke point two point out, which was very politically impact for even though i'm not a journalist at all, you know, is just A I was a rabat hole, decided chase and I talked to sources and acted like I was journalist. But i'm not wrote that one up. And then I ended up influencing political discourse in this country. So I just wanted encourage people and share bit about my journey, which have you know, I don't often share personal details on on twitter, but yeah, I thought I was in a pretty opportunity ament to do so.

Yeah, he was awesome. But now let's talk about the fight. Because everybody you want to know about the fight, I mean, we obviously that you want.

Can you maybe talk about your opponent like your training? You know what I was like in the ring? I think a lot of folks will see this.

We watch the crown combat and these these kind of like, you saw a bit boy fighting and this is a bit entertaining, to say the least. But like, I think you took IT a little, uh, you took IT seriously. So do you wanted to walk us through like the journey and you ultimately that the fight itself, what I was like in your opponent all that .

ah so if for context, crit combat is a fight promotion with actual professional sign fighters and then also in parallel ers and influence to fight promotion on there, which is very amusing that it's a mash up of sort of like real fighters and the ordinary people like me, the format that s mix martial arts, basically like U F, C, but without submit sions. So that's the main difference.

So you can't put someone on a choke holder b an ARM bar or anything. And it's designed for action. It's designed for knockouts.

And I saw a bit boy fight, he fight, he won. And people are like people's attitudes to the point changed after that remarkably. Um I actually saw him after my fight. Um he's pretty nice guy and personnel say that and I have been to these fights because on the fight fan and they asked me to fight and ah I didn't know the first thing about fighting this was in sort of march, february ary, march in I figured that I could do IT um I wanted to chAllenge myself and as I said in one of the tweet yesterday, i'd had a really tough like health issues in december in january and I wanted excuse to try try and get into excEllent shape and I know that being in shape for fighting is basically about shape. Imagine born.

So I did like a fight camp, like I actually and I was slated to fight David hofman, of course, the first time until he he had to pull out a week before. And so I did my first camp, didn't get to fight, and then the organizers found me someone who was roughly my experience level and my exact size. He's called cody que. He works from one of my portfolio companies, D, F, X, finance.

So where where? Time out, time out go, you're glad to over that. U, K, O, one of your portal, es employees.

yeah, unfortunately. yeah.

Look on sourcing good deals going forward. I, but I might knock you out.

He knew what he was signing up for, and I knew that he could kill me, right? Like we, we both took IT seriously. He is ex military, his military veteran, and he was in shape like he showed up, he had ABS.

He looks good and hit a little bit less training than me because I sort of had two training camps. One, but I was starting from absolute scratch. I think he had A A move arresting background.

Actually, if you watch the fight, you can tell how a single, like take down on me, which is arrestable take down. And he was game and really tough guy. And I take IT seriously.

I knew that the format was very prone to knockouts, and I SAT that locker room all day. The other fights went on, and these guys were trickle back in the locker room. And they will be completely bossed up, just horny, horribly bruising.

Some cases got knocked out. Oh my god, my god. This is what a weight. This is my fate in a few minutes.

how? How Roger, are you sitting in the route? How are you sitting in the last group?

Seven hours, I waited in the docker room, just the distress levels building. I did the next algeria in sterling, who was an active fsa fighter, bent out, really successful fighter, which is very, very cool. I got to harassing and asking some questions.

But yeah, then I I got to the fight, and I was completely instinctual. I did. I wasn't able to really execute my fight plan at all.

I, I did. I would actually mainly train boxing, but my boxing skills were not on display that I I would look terrible from a hand perspective. I didn't through a single right cross, which I was meant to.

I didn't level change on the job. I didn't throw an overhanding right which chose me to deal. And in the end I came down to needs and kicks, and I landed, if you are really good, needs the body in the clinch.

I grappled with him effectively, and I landed a liver kick that shut him down and was able to finish him with the hand. So I am very, very glad that IT last ted only a minute, because I was getting tired and I didn't want to fight three rounds. So very, very lucky to look at the K. O. And walk away totally on scared.

Yes, I was A, I was going to say I was there for, I was waiting for you. I thought I was going to miss your fights. I got there little after night and I was like, I think he's going to fight like nine thirty.

I was there for two and four hours waiting for and I was actually, for those of the audience ready told nick I was like literally ten feet when he got the K O, which was awesome. So shot up to Nicole neal or juda chen ick for forget me in there um but I was awesome. Congrats IT was IT look awesome IT was IT was a good thing. I wish IT last long in a minute though would have been a little more in a dating .

but that's so good at a good city. Why seven seven hours in the look or nuts seems like a really you know kind like country production now for for, you know, being ready.

Yeah, I actually brought my laptop and I was working in there, and everyone is like me. What are you doing? Oh my god, you understand.

I am a venture captain as you guys, just because of professional fighters. I do excel for a living. I have, I have to do excel right now, are like handing pads and like warming up and like talking to their coach.

I'm topically writing a stable coin report, the ark room. Yeah, but they are. They made IT.

They made this way because the time I author commission needed everyone there for the whole oration, I was the last fight of the main event. And they made us audio dals in the stadium. And actually one of the influencers failed the medical, and they cancell fight because of that. So they took IT, extremely serious, with sanction fight, drug tests and physics, blood tests, everything like a city, like serious real deal 发言。

wow. Well, if this bitcoin thing doesn't work out, you know, i'm amaze in your future.

there may be another fight there. I will all .

tease that there be another five.

Yeah, come to singapore. Come to tell twenty forty nine.

Yes, awesome. Well, I know we talk a little bit about some of some things at a conference, primarily the trump speech, but a one thing that we should probably talk about is um what happened immediately after the trump speech, which was center iluma uh announcing an announcement of a bill that she's uh looking to author for, you know creating A A strategic bitcoin reserve in the united states.

So for those of you who aren't me, for many with this uh center lum as out of yummy y omens, very broad chain, a coin friendly state, she's very pro bitcoin, pro crip to um SHE more or less. Uh, I I I think wanted to kid some credit for what uh, trump if trump gets elected a hey, I I wanted to put this bill out first term or whatever IT may actually be. But in essence what what stood out to me was some of the details behind IT.

One um wanting to actually create like a strategic erm of a bitcoin to the amount uh which is uh roughly I think five percent of the supply, which I think is if my math tracks roughly like sixty eight billion dollars with the bitcoin at at current Prices or roughly in that in that neighborhood and that will be purchase over the course of of five years. But three and I would love to get uh, next perspective this given that you're pretty knowledges the big coin minor space, I think you had mentioned something to the effect of the united states actually creating sort of their own you know secure sort of dealie ed set of a bit line miners um to secure the network. So to me this is uh mean obviously it's it's great for all of us in crypto u but IT is a is a pretty forward thinking bill coming from a senator luma. So so nick, why do we sort of of you and we can we can pass IT off the James and now say that any perspective, what IT was your kind of original, take away our thoughts from the lumb. Ill, you know, do you think it's gonna pass, do you think is going to be like some additions or attractions from what is you're overall of you?

Well, I think trump's proposal is much more pragmatic politically. He's basically saying we're going to keep the big coin. So we've already seized, which itself is actually questionable.

Hate to say that because those big coins aren't really the us. Government's property. You know, like a lot of those big coins were came from the beefin tag, so they belong to the ex users, creditors, whatever. So I even actually have issues with that, Frankly. But in terms of a political prudence trumps plan IT has a much lower attack surface if you were to endorse just draw a market buying bitcoin um through whatever mechanism.

I think that would really leave from open to attack from democrats and he still has to win the election so limas you know SHE, I don't think um as a great as he is crypto, I don't think he is that much cloud in washington. And so I see this is a statement of intent. So way to endure herself to the bitcoin community.

But I don't think there's any odds whatsoever of this bill passing. But yeah, i'd like trumps idea of just sitting on the seased big coin, although we are going to have to work out who are belongs to and rightfully some of those because you go back to bit for nex. So even that one I think uh, has some issues.

Yeah two things I I would say one, I was telling clients that I would thought that would trump to do. I didn't think he he was going to say up market buying ark was a lot more aggressive. I will also say, ark, I don't know how much trump actually knows about bitcoin.

I know he knows what talking points, the hit. He is very smart people that know this industry well and what to say all if killing in the end, like was able to go deep on various topics relating the bitcoin and blockchain and general stable coins, what argue? So that was one thing I want to say.

Everything I would say. You rench with the britten exact, uh, eric wall talked about that switch, but also roscoes. I saw her multiple titles of the conference.

And SHE is the fight I gave her a hug. I gave her a hug after I won the fight.

So if for those that don't know, we heard that her boyfriend are the ones that I guess have they ve been convicted of, if they can, the accused of the being the ones that perpetually the bit and exact. Um so a lot of those coins that we're talking about actually kind of we came from her when the U.

S. Becomes the big coin nation. We have razor panda. Thank for IT.

yeah. Ah thank you.

right.

I can we could share now her her sticker.

I think SHE hands out the stickers. They're pretty great. One thing I do on on the lamos ill is I did the math, and I think we owned about three point something, three point four percent of all above ground gold.

So her propose is actually more aggressive, because if I was to come up with the number of how much bitcoin we should buy, if we were to buy some, I would imagine you just matched them on a gold. And so she's actually going further than that because he wants to buy a million out of twenty one million by coins, which five fish percent. So here is even more aggressive.

Well, the other of the deal is you asked for more that you actually want and then you settle on where maybe that's the plan.

Nice plug on the art of the deal. Look, I mean the the fascinating thing about 嗯 her you yeah going more aggressive on this eyes。 I mean, obviously, we know that there's a fixed amount of bitcoin and we also know there's millions of bit coins that are lost.

And so I think the true suppliers is less, which would increase the percent even more of its a million bitcoin. But I think the point that you made, nick, is at the above ground goal that we know of is three point four percent. We know the fixed amount of a bitcoin. And so, uh I think R, F, K, I could be wrong, was was coming out even more aggressive to match the national value of the goal that we have, which would have been like a hundred .

billion dollars.

something in bitcoin big no IT right um but yeah I I look I I also agree, I don't think this bill actually goes anywhere uh, certainly ahead of a presidential election. If the republicans can retain all three branches of congress, then you know maybe there's a modification to hit. Maybe there's maybe there's a little bit more giving take with respective getting done.

But for me like and we've talked about this in the past, cripe and bitcoin specifically are a very narrative driven is a very narrative driven asset class when you're speculating, trading IT and um the fact that this is now you know kind of a corner official part of the discourse of creating this strategic reserve. I said see strategic reserve of bitcoin um is now bleeding over into other lawmakers and other countries and so we saw a lawmaker and hong kong who's been very pro web three cyp dota also come out and say, you know, we should do something very similar. And I do think this is to to use the classy it's not Priced in.

I don't think a lot of people have Price in the idea that if this were to actually pass, what other sort of developed countries would end up actually needing or wanting to acquire some percentage of the total bitcoin I for their reserves? Um that I think is is a is a large potential number um but of course it's path dependent, right? If this never sees the light of day in terms of becoming law, well the narrative doesn't really matter too much in practice. But for now it's it's certainly is Operated like A A sufficient tail when to the R T. Big momentum that happened since the, fail the association temp of truth.

it's like that will fairly saying just could gets the people going. I think that doesn't matter. That is not gonna pass because yeah, I think the odds of IT passing are like almost zero.

That's that's not the point. The point is to get the people going to get other people talking. Is that the fact that we're just talking about this and it's out in the the news? It's it's incredible. Um let me say a few things that like like some some phrases from travel, things that he said that are also just incredible to to highlight how far we've gone is things he said is like bitcoin is new, the new steel industry um uh big coin will surpass gold okay, this one is kind of funny. Big coin nars are high to individuals.

I'm thinking know that how how much binky ts were were uh swing ah slinging yeah uh other ones uh five fireguard against er day one uh and we talked about this and show point two zero no CBDC central dividual currency right to south custody freed freeze transaction, turning the U. S. Into a bit coin mining powerhouse, never sell your bitcoin.

All things that are just incredible. We went from basically just just a couple years ago. Its crypto was disease. Uh, in the eyes of established, we wear the faces of all the seas and now they are here. I mean, i'm gonna be a little bit explicit now um and I like being explosive sometimes it's kind like trump came out and he gave us a no 啊 in， in, in and and just appreciate that he came and he he gave us what we want IT yeah he may not deliver in everything. He may not even become president, does not the point everybody is and how talking about IT, that's what matter .

yeah and like we have set on the past, like remember, a politician job is to get elected and stay elected and so you know definitely discount a lot of what trump is saying but to alex is point hey, we're talking about IT. It's in the discourse. Mainstream media doesn't have a choice but to start talking about this in some capacity and other countries leaders are paying .

uh and he's also committing to like very specific things. So not just generally yeah embracing industry like those are very specific things. Fire gary encor repealed joke point, create a gypt to advisory counts on create legislation with a hundred within one hundred days of very specific commitments which are hard to walk back although actually on the .

fire gar again to the front a lot of people saying .

he ah but James I looked I asked ChatGPT and ChatGPT said if um gangs lor of the S C C chair has sort like significantly been their electing his duty he can be removed and arguably all i'm saying is there is like a maybe a looper the two things .

of that one the audience was by store the loud on that on day one I will fire fire gary cancer and if any he talked about freeing ross. He freeing ross. He talked about all these other things that like usually big quarters go up in our job.

But the loud by far that audience was that, as far as I could tell, what I was in the room was firing gary against her is not firing IT. I mean, fortunately speaking, yes, he can't technically fire him. It's going to be really hard but like one, its standard procedure to like just roll out of your position if the president turns over, it's not your party like that's just the way things typically work.

So he probably be god with a few month anyway, and to he can make his life a living out. He can basically force it's whether or not he can technical do IT. And day one, yeah, that probably can happen. But every he would be gone no matter of what if truck on as far as I am concerned, I be theoretically if kids were really wanted, he could probably stay on as a commissions but he wouldn't be able to stay on as chairman because because I trump will be able to put somebody else on his chairman, I believe um and .

the german is chosen by the president that he can fire him from the S. S. C.

But he can fire him as the head right. He still gets from boat. There was one of the .

thing that trump said there was new, which he hadn't previously said. IT wasn't in the republican platform. A lot of what he said was in the exposition republican ty platform.

He hadn't said anything about stable coins for thought was notable. He said he supports stable coins or stable coins for the sake of exciting dollar dominance. That's obvious ly talking point we've heard from folks like paul yan, obviously something that we all talk about all the time. I thought IT was very notable that trumps said that too ha .

percent agree yeah I mean, like we've been I think James is mention this multiple times on this podcast like IT just seems so obvious that we would main maintain the dollar hedge's y by impractical able coins hello right. And I I also agree the fact that he was brought up and I don't know if I was I doubt IT was adlib, but you know the fact that I was in his speech very, very compelling empowerment and look like whether you are a fan of tedder circle or not. Like uh, they're all growing and and growing really, really, uh, dramatically, I would say now granted stable coin supply probably certainly the circle side isn't where I used to be.

It's a but the the kind of integrations where sabel coins are going um and even like paypal, right releasing their they are stable coin like IT seems highly unlikely that um uh stable coins are going to somehow be um you know regulated out of the system. But we haven't had any clear guidance on anything particularly stable coins. And circle spends an enormous amount of time and effort, energy and money and dc lobbying and and trying to get you know things continue to move forward.

The fact that I was brought up, uh I do think is also quite notable for uh for the same coin space because when you like her and I IT is actually probably the best use case beyond speculation for cypher right now. I mean, I certainly use IT and the other folks, especially outside the united states, when there's demand for dollars, it's a huge boom for folks. Do you want to get access to stable coin? So you know whether we like or or not, the dollar is indirectly maintaining its digital hedman uh IT would be nice for um I would say the the U S.

Government embrace that yeah I mean, next one, a lot of work in this, I read summers work. I mean, if if circle was allowed to do interesting in stable coin ts, I bet you they d have way more a dollars back by circle, right? And tether is typically used by people internally who typically don't have access to U. S, B, C accounts where they can an interest that just worried about the debasement. So that's why other, at my opinion that's White other so I .

something sorry to ins something one out is actually uh, question for negar or could be great for the audience if you go to expand on on how a tire is comparable in a way to a year a lot yeah I don't have .

trump understand this one. Just want actually very quick kind of suggested the dollar 和 germany's is actually bad for sort like middle amErica a which is the kind of ln lug and talking point which I actually agree with and so that almost trades against that actually almost opposes the step。

We should extend the reach of the dollar with a stable coins talking point um but yeah I don't know if the trump will achieve that level of sophistication and it's a controversial point anyway um but yeah was the question how how to oh how to tell this like you are dollars yeah yeah I how to talk on this that took him twenty four nine last year I think basically the ideas you know your dollars emerged because they were vous. Restrictions on the u. Speak system are actually including interest that could be paid.

But also there is just a desire to transact outside the U. S. Banking system in dollar terms to avoid all of the, you know, sporadic nature of that system and the risk of transactions being politicized. That story was totally recapitulate with stable coins. Crypto users had a very hard time getting bank, and exchanges were not linked to the bank system.

Bit finex was the creative to the parent org was so that you know traders could actually transact timid and how to sketch you taiwan, these banks as into media and you know initially civil points for sees for settling cloud on exchanges. Now it's become much bigger than that. It's become a digital dollar access tool for the entire world.

And all of these folks, you know X U S, do not have access a dollar banking. And so it's an absolute godsend. So very, very allegiance to your dollars.

Um we're actually going to publish your report in september profiling five emerging market countries looking at how folks in these countries are using stable coins, not for cyp to stuff but for everyday usage. And so i've find that tremendously interesting. And what you see is cyp ted dollar zone. Of course, you know we know about this in argentine benezra, but it's it's much bigger than that. I think think very, very disruptive to all these sovereign cie and potentially caused the destruction of a bunter weaker some currency .

emerging markets on something of node is uh euro daughters about thirteen trillion dollars and you are deposits right now. Um it's it's a big market is .

bigger than the onshore dollar market.

I think I was going to say when .

I first started covering crypto u in general back in twenty seventeen. Um we try I think, dick, you also we try to call this trip of dollars. I mean, it's like ninety eight percent of the stables are hundred dollars or so. I mean, he really is the IT is hegemon. I at this point, whether or not how why IT goes, but IT seems to be that that that turn is .

not catching on.

While speaking of speaking of the dollar, it's probably worth talking a little bit micros since this is a crop micro podcast, right? Um we have the fed this week, alex, I know you on pens and need like I am that sorry.

sorry, not july is not happening.

It's a good bed, I think is good if you put IT before list. Listen, I saw the P C. Number and I am finally copyrighting on my july all, but I am staying in five fifty bips in sept.

I know you're only twenty five. That's no. I just for everyone to be aware.

So this week is a uh little in the last day, the month a is is the F O M C meeting. There are zero cuts Price I pretty much one percent at this point. So you can consider the rap.

Um however, there is a lot also going on that you know that that's like f of the fact of of the the fed meeting. But I think is important to understand that the next fed meeting is until september. And so um what we are looking for at symmetric is um the language used in the press conference as a relates to weaker r economic data, rising unemployment, the negative C P I print.

We kind of envisage that uh, there are certain aspects, the economy, they're slowing down, the other aspects that are doing great. That being said, if the fed waits too long to cut or doesn't cut enough in their first cut um then it's a policy air and you will have you know the ramifications of of the higher for longer policy. And so from from our perspective, I think.

What we're kind of looking for is, you know, what is the language? Is the language damage? Is the language know we've seen some language suggesting that once they start cutting there, I can stop.

It's not gonna like one cut and done. And what the E C B did june, um there is going to be some sort of cutting for longer, if you will. Uh, and there's always the Jackson hole event in, in August.

I'll be attending that this year. What we're looking for Jackson hole is to try to see, are they telegraphing what is going to be happening in september and how the markets react to that. So no, right after the F O M C, well, maybe not right after a couple days later, is also the bank of japan's turn. And I don't know what consensus is right now, but from what i've read, there appears to be a view that they may end up hiking rates. And so dollar in recently, I guess, the top of the dollar side, bottom for the end, started to pull back.

So I think one of things that we're looking at, uh, like from for exchanges on on wednesday, how does the dollar react to the tone of the fed, assuming that they don't cut, which I don't think they will cut this point? And then also how does that impact the end on on friday morning um when the bank japan is up. So alex, you have any h any perspective on you know the dollar and trade or or how you're planning for the .

fed on on wednesday? Yeah think wednesday, not ever gonna be basically no cats there. And is pricing as you say, it's all about the language, I think.

And this is kind of like I gathered there is market expectation is power is going to prepare a the market for september cuts. So the language is gonna change. They are gonna change the language on the on the statement and then reinforces on the pressure objected.

They are being pretty much minimize volatility and trying to be predictable emphasis on on on good inflation numbers that are that are actually now consistently uh coming coming very well on if one kind or two cat and the economy in general. Um I I want to make emphasis on on high frequency day. And if you look at, for example, with the dallas uh um economic index, the W E I is actually is been ramping up since early june.

So that point there being is there there are signs in the economy. They're actually doing very well. Um they're not recession ony at all uh this this worry that is always lingering in the back among many people in cyp t about uh, we go into hard landing.

The probability is always there. We don't predict. We don't have Christmas, unfortunately, but it's is very, very low probability.

That being said, if they they, if I could only get one cat this year, I think we d likely be a policy mistake. Uh, we need more than that. And and and we need to be study.

Then on on the B O J is they gonna hike again, uh, twenty five bps expectation, pretty much backing. The question is how much are they gonna tap the QE japanese QE. And that can drive even further move down on daughter yen.

And this usually does not matter, but in this case, IT matters because he's been it's been going up for so long um and is basically used to call for painting lever putting level trades on on U S assets uh or in general the U S S is in particular basically with the funding rates being so loan in japan you get funding. This is the curry trade basically for audiences. You, you, you fund yourself on yen locally and then you take that and you read best or or you put that money to work.

When things that pay more to to make money, you liver IT up, right? And that's, uh, uh, U. S rates all across the curb IT can also be u as equities um and and if if the dollar yen basic, if if the funding gets higher, uh IT makes your your your enforces you if you have a Carry trade position on on to reduce the size.

And usually this is not a problem, but I can happen. You basically open up the door to to trigger uh uh a cascade of uh, risk wind. So yeah, there is risk there. But I think that mainly happened about like a week ago and is kind of like in the Price right now, like the time to panic was a week ago.

And then Jackson hole is a we forget out of Jackson hole, but we have a recent consistent recent history of the fed coming in on Jackson hole power and basically tuning the market, right? So fingers crossed, but IT remains another event. We look into the farm since september and and deadly inside for me, to me the most and think is not the fat at this point is is the for forties and right not for equities is the the trump camera play is like who wins? Uh, that's what really we we really care about the most. I think till november.

I have to charge up for those watching on video. Just little shout to joe. Here we are pricing for about one hundred and ten percent chance of cuts, which means to our Price for more than one caught right now potentially. So the eyes are up there about is the market still missed ly expecting when I go on records say i'm only expecting one twenty five business toy cut but yeah will say .

I know you guys got ta get more aggressive. You know.

I think I think we could get three before the end of the year. I just don't think we're going to get two in september. I think the markets only pricing two for the most part now, but I think I think we could get through.

I'm actually concerned if if we get two in september that IT may be interpreted by enough people as the fear getting worried about hard landing like like wrong messaging. This a probability that is not, uh, muncie that actually we get to it's sexual is in syria bullish cuts as barish cuts there.

lower rates theoretically should be good for for crypt o but the picks of gun crazy in the past before we move on the trumping commodity, I think is are common a sorry that trade we should go back. We didn't really tune on the fact that while the bit conference going on, the harvest campaign kind of reached out and wanted to do like a reset with crypto companies, there are certain people in the crypto camp that are unhappy about this.

Uh, my do is like as if this can be less parties in the Better I, I, I prefer IT to be by part and I I don't know why anyone in the kid like the odds are IT like super, super strong that trump is that argue additively gna wait and it's going to be Better for the gypt. I mean, there's still they're still a decent chance that uh, Harris could win, the dens can win. So I don't know why you wouldn't want to sit down with them.

I know there are people this industry who strongly disagree with me on that. Uh, we also have a letter um from a budget of I think fifteen different democrats basically um asking them to kind of like same thing go over cypher policy. Be a little more open to IT in a way that the biden adman has not which really as far as before in the pocket and any other pocket nickey talk about on yours it's the warn eights of the world. It's the Michael bars at the fed, the marti groom birds, the F D I C. Gary gather with the esc um and IT seems like that no matter what happens IT, we'll see what happens or in the next three months but IT seems like giving the debs do when IT should be at worst neutral but IT you should even be more positive for this industry uh then abide and admit would have that I know what your guys thought uh Harris reaching out and saying he wants to reset some of the unix.

do you I know .

you are a number .

and I think twenty twelve one, Hillary clinton went to russia and he gave them a button that had the red reset read on IT symbolically. Is this a political thing that you guys remember? And reset was actually they misbuild IT in russian and said something can play something different. I don't know.

It's like, I like you like there's something. And and if this was .

like a major graph, and of course, we did not reset relations with russia, in fact, they got much, much worse. That's what this very surreal ds we have. I don't believe the camlet, so come A I.

I, I.

I don't believe that he will ever be programmed because he is progressive. When he was in the senate, SHE was the further left senator by by her voting record. And progressives don't like cripe to you know, they they tipped on journalizing but they would prefer that the state largely being control of financial activities for the sake of pushing policies.

Um you talk about the various forms that takes, but that seems to be my interpretation. And critter is all about transacting outside the ebit of the state. And you know these ideas are on hard money, these sort of like conservative libertarian ideas.

And so I do think there is something about crypto. Fundamentally, there is an impregnated ideology that is perceived as hostel by the progressive camps. I don't believe that um you know there will ever be a sincere in race of crypto by by the left um as much as you would be convenient for a cyp t to be a non partisan.

So i'm not taking the reset concept seriously. I do think they have understood now that electrically, this is a losing issue for them because no one really votes for people because they hate cyp to but they will vote for you because you like crypto. So it's very symmetric for them.

Um so I think they're kind of trying to panic a little bit, want to see how they can reverse trump gains from the script. Embrace but I don't believe this will be authentic. Embrace the industry .

I almost completely agree with with neck like this is politics at its finest, right? They saw the metrics, they saw the activity, they saw the fund raising and they were like, oh no, we can't be this way anymore.

And I mean, you saw this with with what happened with, know the one eighty with the by administration before and drop out back and late may, june IT IT seems so IT seems pretty obvious that this was a at about face for political reasons. And so what I like progressives to be engaging with stuff like crypto? yes.

Uh, do I think trump aligning himself with cyp du is gna piece off progressives even more about cyphered? probably. And so I don't think that there is a lot of I don't put a lot of weight into the. Campaigns desire to say, build a comprehend of regulatory framework around crypto. I think they're trying to score some probably cheap political points and did some game theories zing and looked at IT and said it's probably Better for us to at least appear that we're open to resetting in the conversation versus actually doing something.

And I will note, I was probably overlay brought my statement there are small handful of progressives that are programs to, I think you could describe broken as progressive and rich I tourists perhaps but IT is certainly not the sort of like you're typical progressive they're certainly not proper pto.

Yeah I think I think the overwhelming trend is the Younger senator, it's it's republican and excuse Younger. The two are areas that uh procreate to people tend to cue so hopefully that Younger part of the uh picks up steam. I I pull up the next tweet or for those, uh, watching at home.

But I wanted to point out to the one that I think is really true, years one and regime of regulatory al pacy, which we talked about. But also stop harassing bitcoin matters for simply buying energy, which is pretty critical. And I I don't think even if we do get some of the more positive things um on like fritter regulations and and what have you, I do think it's going to be hard for them to ever like come on board with with that view of things, right. Like I don't think that's the the bitcoin mining side of things is something that they are ever going fully get on board with, even if they do kind of open up a little bit on the crypto that exist. That's something you truly care about.

Yeah, that was an interesting moment in trump speech when he started to talk about A I and a lot of people didn't understand the connection, but it's very Crystal clear to me it's trump s vans in particular platform is reenergized, reindeer, rial, zing, american heartland and being opposed to energy intensive industries is kind of productive. It's hold to labor. It's hostile to creating a new american industry.

And so it's natural for the trump fence admin to oppose polarizing energy for bitcoin miners or for A I data on us, which is becoming and and actually a much bigger issue. And that will eclipse actually, in my view, my projection is at all eclipse the energy consume by bitcoin minor. So I thought those points were perfectly coherent, although a lot of people didn't like them.

Yeah, now i've with you and set, nick, I would the last thing I want to think about the big on comfort as I did um two panels and arrive my sic one thing that I want to get four we go to the E T T S, which i'll have some comments from those guys as well. We are ryan van eck on stage was talking about how everyone involved gypo tens talk about this, like three percent allocation mark, two to three percent.

That's what their clients are doing, this what they're doing. And he was like, but every single person I talk to involved in bitcoin on the other side has way I R percent its location than that and and he was like, and and then he said on one of those people and I was basically hito getting, I asked them, was like, you're going to tell you so much that is and he's the CEO of vat ACC, one of the larger C, T, F. Issuers in the u.

And he threw out them, is over thirty percent of his persons investment portfolio. And dick d, so I thought that was like I opening for me. I couldn't believe he actually shuit up on stage on the main stage there, but that was I just wanted to throw that out.

There is something that like for those listening, there are people. He also said bitcoin was in his blood um up on stage because his firm basically got they got their start because they started to offering uh gold mutual funds and investing gold minders to stuff back when holding physical gold was legal. That's how they became known for what they are.

So they he's fully on board that I thought that was critical but E E T F debut the day before the bitcoin etf launch, I to say this the volume is pretty damn good. Um it's trading about twenty to twenty five percent with the big twenty T F in the first few days. That said, uh the flows is aren't create.

They've had net outflows about three hundred and forty million. Um all of that is coming from gray scales eat e for the most part ah well, that for the most part of all of IT is coming IT. So a lot of it's coming out a bunch of bits coming back into the other etf IT seems. But on a net basis, a lot of its coming out. So um I don't know you guys so many thoughts on the etf, uh, on the launch and what your expectations are.

So jane, I just ask you directly, like was this kind of in line with what you and and values were assuming? What happen .

volume lies? Yes, this is right. I thought they were going to do that like a quarter, a little bit less quarter of the volume that the back, he said just that was our guests fifteen and twenty five percent.

We thought flows would be the same over like before six months. Maybe flows is still very early, right? Like the big where I T S, the first ten days also had they they had a bunch of days of outflows.

They had net inflows over all because the first day was massive. But but for the most part of us, ten days of outflows that were net aside, like there was a Better days of outlaws. And after that, that's when things really started picking up.

After everyone should of covering all the money, quorn in and IT slowed down again. And then we went to another way of a massive inflows. And now where at seventy point five billion on the big one E T S, I don't think the ear E T S gonna get there.

I don't think wall street and visors are as keen on the theory um as they do. It's it's a little bit hard to understand um for many reasons. Um I think nick, you also agree with that kind of sense like what what did you hearing from the people you talk to the wall street side of things or what you're understanding what you're reading.

I think the theme is a narrative problem and also just its narrative hasn't been as seasoned on wall street. Um we've had fifteen years to understand backup in and for that to speculate into the border rooms. And you know anyone that an allocators and you know bitcoin is its story is simple.

It's you know digital cold that is fairly well understood. Um the theory um is is stuck in the midland. I think this actually placed fall on his benefit, which is salon is new or china actually metrics look very good.

We maybe touch on that. Um it's more performing. A serum isn't sure what like even a thereon people aren't sure what a serum is. Is that a bitcoin like asset where you're focusing on the scarcity and the deflationary aspect? And are you focusing on capital return to token holders via fees?

You know, burning burning the tokens as people use the theory more, are you focusing on making, uh, l two is cheap and making transactions as cheep as possible. Those things kind of trade off against each other. So the theme is constantly vaseline between these two.

Like are we're going to be responsible to the token holders and create these capital return mechanism. So we're going actually appears the user and make IT as cheap as and we want to make blocks based on that. Those things are opposed to each other.

I know that wall street is probably not having that conversation, but I think even a theory m itself has an identic crisis. And IT doesn't surprise me that maybe the launch was not as hard as a big coin one. IT was very notable. I thought that the theory kind of sort off on the day and so on a ali that I thought, what is the market telling us something? Actually, I don't know how likely IT is we got to slow at etf, but that was kind of my big take away actually.

Yeah the the thing that there's a couple things that, that stood outs to me with respect to the the theory etf um and and by the way, like nick, I I echo your sentiment. We had an episode previously or I was like bitcoin as digital gold.

It's like so easy to sell that it's like tera, it's what is IT and then alex kind of like rambler out some stuff and I was like, yeah exactly like how do you get a wall street? Got a self thing right? So um but one of the things that we did cover, I think a couple years ago was we I think uh many of us believe that the E E outflows wouldn't be as profound or pronounce sis as the um the GPT c outflows.

Most of because there wasn't like these force liquids or force sellers or huge basis trades online ing is a um turned out to be dead wrong. I mean E D U, they slapped that hundred and fifty basis point fee on IT and everybody else is ten, fifteen and twenty to twenty five. And it's just it's getting your hold again in terms of alf laws.

And so uh I think they thought some people off my surprise but to your point, nick, about the the reaction for sona, obviously i'm the the sona ball here and what what has stood out to me about sana, uh, and its reaction to the E D, T, F. On the one hand, we saw this actually happened with the theory um when the between f finally arrived and was trading as eth ripped um in the expectation of the next etf. And I think that is largely becoming consensus.

Whether this happens or not to your point is you know we're not entirely sure of uh, for salona eat after a slam dunk. I think kind of call option they bought was a trump presidency and that will likely lead towards something like as long as you have getting approved. But it's it's easily a year away. I think James mention this a while back, but IT does underscore, I think, some of the points around the meta ics with isola. Uh most recently, you know the the total trading volume is swift serum and it's still like one fifth the value of serum.

Now I have had these intellectual discussions with some big a theoria proponents around, well, you have to include the layer tools that and I think that this is a point that that is is worth debating because before altus were a thing, how did you compare a theory um to sona as a layer one right where you had you know data availability, uh, execution, all of these consensus were all within one thing. Well now the therm community has chosen to abstract out execution into layer. And folks want to make the argument, will you be you should be comparing salon as layer one to the layer two.

And i'm like, no, salona hasn't chose to outsource its execution to A A different layer. If somebody uses to do that, well, then maybe we compare those two. And the the, the metrics are astonishing.

I I don't I think I got a tip my head to cause money over a multi coin. Y he mentioned in a weet recently that they don't never really promise anything to their L P. S.

But one thing that he you know uh confirmed or or affirmed to them was that slaw was going to flip theory and all the the key metrics s and we're starting to see that. So is this impacting e etf? Los, i'm not entirely sure. I think the the point about like how do you sell this thing on wall street and doesn't have enough familiarity with, uh, folks in the boardrooms in seta is is likely a bigger proponent. But you know i've been sense for a while like the real to value trade for a theory versus salona continues to favor for salona. And so as the metric increase, as activity continues to increase and the kind of spectrum of applications that are getting built on top island, a coupled with some of the upgrades are coming, it's not like if you don't have bag holder bias, it's it's hard to look at IT objectively and say I should be over way a theory verses something likes sona here.

I I so on stage I did ask both robby and and everyone on stage and Young obviously believes that so on is next and that could happen within a year because you have I file for sallowed each even on artists today on bloomberg. Uh one of the C I O for index products, black rock said we're not thinking about anything else.

Robby basically said that is bitter, copying that the theory and then the next thing is so far down that they are not even concerned about IT right now I made black crocket is building on asterias with a bit planned in other stuff. I don't know how much of that is just like talking points, verses, are they actually looking into this? But I just I think where we're likely await away from a song etf absent a tran massive run up, but the final deadline was applications in the end of march.

And so if prompted ted on generate, I don't know how much you can really change to get these things launched by then, but I thinks on that makes sense as the next chain is my overall, and I will say shout out to see the micro used used to be one of the guys in vulkan, which is now owned by culture. I have bet he's been super barrier shed on the the meta of flows interest uh, at T I owe him deal up in if is there fifteen percent of the big I T F thirty six months. So if it's already give me a meal. But um right now I am definitely losing that considering they are negative six month a week.

I have A A question question for joe. How do you respond to the criticism to our ola? The fire answer is just a way for jump to extract value from retail. Very curious what you think of that. Yeah yeah would start yeah it's a it's a thing you know you know it's a .

thing what what a classic crib to twitter um loaded question. So look, I mean, I don't I don't I am friends with the guys to jump, but I don't a investor, you can even invest in them. So I don't have an a dog in this race.

Except that I love the fact that some of the smart st. Computer scientists on the plan that are trying to synchronous global state at the speed of light. I think that that's pretty awesome, and I think retail actually benefits from that.

But let's be clear here, jump is a four profit business in the way that y've been able to dominate the market, making an agreement trading space is by creating customize hardware, F, P, G A and assets to run their software on, right. So it's not a stress to think that jump is going to release fire answer, which arguably improves everybody's usage of sala that's using slawa. Um but if they if and I don't know they'll do, but it's not that hard.

It's not a big logical leap to assume that they may end up by building custom harder run fire answer on to be slightly faster red than somebody else um that are going to make money from IT. I mean, that is their core business, right? They make markets and they're really, really good at IT.

So is this a way to screw over retail? I mean, look for years now, the narrative whenever ver markets get really barrier is jump is pulling out of crypto. Jump is no longer involved in crypto and this is never true.

And so could somebody make the case that, you know jump is aiming to scriver retail? sure. Somebody can make that case is that there are core business, not at all. So I just don't I don't buy IT and also fired the answers, an open source client. So if somebody wants to fork IT and make IT something else, they can do that.

And I think that this is a kind of A A big leap in the way that A, A, A mark making firm like jump is doing is that they're embracing the open source nature of after development these days to the extent that they are paying literally some of the world's top computer scientists to work on something that's ultimately going to be free. Like to me as at a big open source sky, that's awesome. But it's also a testament the fact that like if they were trying to screw over retail, don't you think they would be doing in a close source fashion?

Quite I need got to run suit, but I actually have a question from before you ask to run. So you're you obviously you A V C so you're investing across different the um bitcoin. The theories are used like are you like how do you you compare and like what you're looking at investing in a deal like color you viewing the santa ecosystem when compared to the area.

We are probably more active in uh in sana than a theory right now. We don't come in with a particular a Normative view of what chain entrepreneurs should be building on. We let we defer to them on that budgets in terms of deal count by the numbers, I would say we're seeing more founders come to us and say they're lon sana at the moment, but we generally take a pretty hands off approach in terms of eco system focus.

Uh, alex, did you have anything to add on the the universe of theory of inside of things?

Oh yeah um to do things well, one is I think that but where was wrong on on on the deal on the idea I mean, volumes came in exactly where I thought they would come in um but I was not expecting such a massive outlaw that fast. But that being said, I think is like a first of all, as I am, I I prefer a combination of syrian.

I think that would outperform if dubin said it's people are being minor and have a tendency to basically they go to the extremes and and generate all this drama and panic. It's the etf is steel something that is positive in the need to long run for a year is going to drive inflows. How people think about that like basically big and is running and you are you are lagging and you need to deploy.

You look around us OK to buy some etf, a first will come in. It's is gonna be positive for as soon as great school is over is going to be positive on uh on a net basis for for iteration. Um um I thought is on on adding the layer tools. I don't think I don't think later too should be added.

But if you have to to to if you're gonna do that, you also need to have the evaluations, right? Not just the transaction is like a case and then is not just eat market up is ef plus arbitrium pus plus, optimism plus at three hundred layer two other right now in here, right so IT he gets meteor um and the other thought is this is an analogy from from friend of mine who who has been encysted for a long time that we're just talking about this over the weekend. And uh he said basically, uh big coal gold, a ethier is like A W U S. And uh, soila is like the APP store and I thought I was I think it's a pretty good analogy.

I agree with that.

There is room for all three. So it's yeah .

yeah I kind of view IT as like like the other thing that I I didn't mention that I say was that he dies view with there and a as uh true competence to be going. He views them as being complimentary um and many this is the one I kind of agree that I kind of think of like bitcoin has the whole story about you um kind of narrative exchange narrative down.

And I think later ones are all competing for a different arguably largely total dresser market size is just that there's a way more competition in there. IT remains to be seen who will long term on that market share. Thanks for dropping us for this, not sort of bits and bits way back in two ways to discuss more about how the worlds crypto macor colliding till then.