The future of the Kindle with Panos Panay
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Walking vercheres, the flagship podcast of knowing that you should just always take the over on tesla shift takes. I'm not a betting person, is not a thing that I do. I spent my money to someone sees very famous person, I trade fun. But if findel ever offers bed on tesla ship dates, I might get into IT.

Just put IT up. If I ve learned one thing about the internet you can bet on anything somewhere on the market you can bet on. And the cybercafe, I am confident.

Do you think he's just taking the other side that his planned of fun twitter, he just gets IT coming and going hi and that David pears, David, hello. We've got a good episode. We're going to go over our bets from last week on the robot taxi announcement uh, apple anounced ipad many there some weird intel news to talk about.

There's a really cute in ten to sixty four I mute later that I want to get into. But also aim zon penny today is on the show this week. There was a kindle event day.

We went to IT anus, came in the studio. We hang out with him for a while. We try to get him to say what's going on for lexi.

He declined. And then we're get a lighting. It's going to be amazing.

It's a test. It's a good one. Let's start, David, with our bets. So we ran the skin mic last week where we were recording the show before tesla robot taxi event. And you and I made a bunch of predictions, and now we can see if we were correct.

You know what weird is going back through and we'll go through IT. But uh, I have two regrets that I would like to share before we get into IT. One of my regrets is that I didn't push harder on the I think this is a thing you're going to be able to buy.

Uh, we talk to Better briefly. And I asked, like, what do you think that this robot taxi there about launch is gonna a thing you can buy? And you were just like, absolutely not.

That would be the same. A oops, here we are. That was not one of your predictions. Carefully, not one of your predictions. But I should didn't one of mind that IT was gonna be something you can buy.

I actually still stand by my prediction. I I want to be clear. I mean, fair. The problem is were .

going to have to redo who won these predictions like every three months for the next ten years until these things actually launched ed, and then who wins? So let me, let me just quickly like run through the news and then we can run through our predictions. Uh, and the news, I would say, was basically two things right there is there was the the cybercafe and the robot of and uh.

there was a bunch of other sorry, David, it's pronounced removing you think i'm joking the way in the iron pro he says rebellion. It's the revolving. yes.

And i'm pretty sure that is yet another horrible westworld reference that after the event, you could take the robot taxi between two different spots on the map, IT Warner brothers on the lot. And one of them was like york city, and one of them was west world. And if you stuck IT out long enough through west world, one of the villains is whatever IT doesn't matter, he said.

Van bovine is just like the last name of a midwestern salesman who is just like tomas relevant. Hey.

doing put or is the all seeing A I in? Is that .

um well no IT is not removing. I will mod acknowledged to that IT is the role of in um it's fine. It's like when when apple was like, no, it's not the iphone x is the iphone ten. They were wrong. It's the iphone x and IT is the roof wow, a bold so there was the robe of in a the the roof named roof in rob, roof on.

roof on.

That's great in europe is the rob of on.

I just want again, and I just want another one, this all of these things are fake.

Yes.

most of all is not a thing that yeah. And one of the things .

that you said was there, there might be a with of you know the the the supposedly the autonomists truck that's actually just rolling downhill. Uh, I would not say I am absolved of solve the maybe this is not real vibes from this event, but anyway, so those are basically the two thinks right there was the the cyber cab was the thing that has bat wings. It's a two seeder car, looks neat, fine.

Ah IT is supposedly going to be available in twenty twenty seven. It's supposed to giving cost less than thirty thousand dollars. It's just a bunch of words that he set out loud and a prototype. Yes, it's not nothing like I want to be clear, not being dismissive. It's not nothing, but it's not something either.

So I just one of dolosa the start. Our conversation about this is in the context of space ex catching the starship booster.

which sick as hell.

which is, yes, IT, is true that sometimes the things happen yeah that is that a true thing you can say about the companies, but mostly about one of them, the one that he doesn't run.

The most companies .

usually accomplish their goals is the thing you can mostly say about the company that win shut well runs. That's that's that one. yes. Tesla, on the other hand, has been promising a lot of things for a long time, and most of those things don't arrive. And I think it's possible to split them up.

I don't think you can say, well, he landed a rocket or caught the rocket in this case, so he will ship the cyber cab. And full celt driving. I, I, those things are fundament like the most deeply unrelated things.

I can think totally, for example, uh, tesla has furious competition. SpaceX does not. In fact, space sex is competition is so shit that there are astronauts in space, right?

You yeah and and including like the government has largely just given space ex everything. Like is that is that a whole different thing?

I'm just saying I just want to that I context I the people I know and like to read and people like think highly of have conflicted these two accomplishments and i'm just pulling them apart one .

hundred percent. And I think that is useful in another way, which is like we we always overrate for Better and for worse, the extent to which a CEO is a company, right? Like the the he doesn't deserve all the blame for the massive tesla stuff over the years, and he doesn't deserve all of the credit for its space sexes.

Doing neither of those things is true, I think. I think he probably deserves more blame than credit, generally speaking. But like all this is to say, like, actually, I have found IT very useful over the years to think of each of his companies as completely separate things run by separate people like x and tesla increasingly are aligned in ways that are strange and odd.

And it's the ones he runs in gun shot. Well, that's those, the company that is, that is fear of the companies that you on runs. And then there is one shot, water runs face sex. And SHE is, by all accounts, trusted in visionary and great.

Yeah, okay.

But I just want to separate, because the two achievements, IT achievements, the one achievement and the one launch happened in the same time frames. Everyone thinks one as evidence to the other, and and they are not. So the cyber cab, which is fine, like people wash this in the in in real time, they are like, this is fake.

Here's a guy control with the car. I don't that's sure or not. I do know that A A prototype car running around the backlot of a movie set is a thing that we've had for a long time. Yes, but you can go to universal studios today and drive around in the car that appears to be dropping its yeah a hundred .

per end like A A A human oids seeming robot that's being controlled by somebody else far away. Also, I think we've had for a long time a thing that they try to get people very excited about at this event. This is the thing i'm so torn between, like we're on the spectrum of nothing to something.

This actually is because, on the one hand, the whole idea of the cybercafe strikes me is completely ridiculous. Like A A A two seeder car already vastly decreases the number of people who can use IT. Ah I saw somebody point out that like, oh, great, you made a cab whose doors can open in city traffic uh which is a really excEllent point uh like this thing just doesn't make any real world sense but neither is the cyber truck and like that eventually shipped so who knows .

oh I mean they also announced inductive charging, which doesn't exist for a car of the size yet. That's cool. I would love to have that is just not real.

And in the mathematic announce any of the mathematics right? Like, how will this work? I buy one of these things for thirty thousand dollars. I put IT on the robo taxi in network, or the robot sea network, that one does not work nearly. And then test legers takes some money, while the thing that i'm picking up and I liable if IT crashes, do I have to clean IT up if someone picks in IT tesla responsibility who water the splits, like if I buy a cyber cap for thirty thousand dollars and put IT on the robot taxi network, how long in a moderately busy city until that investments paid off and i'm making a profit on IT? If you don't have that chart, you actually haven't announced anything in the .

context of this service totally. Yeah.

I made the projection of that chart.

Well, that's all the stuff that is the stuff of self driving, right? Like like you said, A A car that can drive you around a movie lot without appearing to have a driver. It's actually like it's a huge technical achievement that we are actually not near in the real world, but that is only one tiny slice of what is going on here.

And andy hawkins wood, a great thing, just basically like writing the list of things left to solve both by this whole industry, end by tesla in particular. And I think the belief from elon musk, tesla has been that they can just like brute force their way through IT. And I will work and IT just hasn't and IT won't. And so I think again, even if you've solved the kindest thing, drive safely by itself on the road problem, which we we haven't, no one has, even if you solved that, you've only solved one tiny slice of the what does that take to actually roll this out in the world problem. And the cyber cap, to me is just like one sort of bad idea about what that car might look like yeah that as far as I like willing to.

So two things that the promise for a lot of model three. Model y buyers over the years has been you'll pay the extra money for a full sort driving hardware, and then one day, overnight, these things will turn into robot taxes, and they will start making you money while you sleep. This is an explicit promise that elan, musk, tesla have made to these buyers prospected viyella.

This is something that people have bought these cars as an investment, spending money they maybe didn't have waiting to pay off. It's not here yet. What version of the car will actually gets support for? This is contested.

And when I say contested, I mean, while elon was speaking, someone was screaming hardware, three support at him, and his response was, let's not get too nuanced. And then later I think he was france from whole house in the head of design and tesla, who was giving interview. He said how three would be supported 嗯， what what's the answer? Like it's unclear.

But if you're buying a cyber cab in you immediately competing with thousands for not millions of existing model trees, you're in a weird spot. Like why would you make that investment? Because you're in a less practical car.

Also, presumable test is gna run IT down again. I just think the math doesn't add up. And in the the basics of like what tesla has promised people for a long time .

still isn't there what there is this sense at all of those events that tesla is still the company that has infinite demand, right? That anything they do people will buy because it's tesla, because it's exciting and because it's school.

And to me, the reaction to the event was very telling in the sense that I think tesla has lost a lot of that shine, partly because there's a lot of competition and partly for like elon mosque reasons uh, but also people just don't believe tesla anymore. There was a sense for so long that I was like, okay, don't believe the Price, don't believe the ship date, but like this thing is going to happen and it's going to be awesome. And that is just not help people react to this anymore.

There is no benefit. The doubt that this is a good idea. I just don't see IT yet anymore.

And tesla had that going for IT for so long and I just feels done. But anyway, the taxi thing is a good segway to our predictions. So let's let's just do the scoreboard here very quickly.

I think unfortunately, it's going to very bad for me very quickly. So let's just run through this very fast and then never speak up again. Year three predictions were, won't arrive until twenty twenty seven.

Um yeah, nail that one. Uh, again, will see. But he said, twenty, twenty seven, many types only. I said twenty, uh, only in certain cities. Well, what's our ruling on that that IT IT like, again, this is one will see some day, but the picture was like you can buy one and just have IT and everything will be like I kind of want to give you a push on that because he didn't say .

IT is that he didn't say IT won't be that feel very confident that will be true. You can only like the .

second one city at time yeah I I expect, for .

example, uh, you have to build your vapor productive charges first, right? So you have to invent them, which is an important step. One, you to make sure they work at scale, a very important step. Two, and then you have to put them in cities. Yeah.

what can you explain that one to me? Actually, because they didn't tesla, like, do this once successfully already. And now everyone is adopting the standard that tested did. And actually, they head towards a good place for all of this might work successfully. Why blow this up with a new way of .

charging the yeah like we have the next charges .

like that. That is the thing that is going to enable these charging systems to work around the world on a stay in a standard way and then test less is just like, never mind, we're going to try the other thing that definite won't work.

Like why yeah what I mean that makes sense in the in the way that catching the rocket makes sense. Like you know, I mean, like it's it's an ability idea. If I can pull up this off, IT will be sick.

Okay, right? So you ve got taxes. You don't want too many moving parts around the taxes.

So to charge them, you don't want to roll up to a bay where a robot arkin the door and sticks the charger into IT. You just wanted to roll up and start charging. sure. So if you make IT work that there's inductive charging, which has been demoted by a handful of companies and handful of controlled settings test.

I think at one point, demo like motorized battery changing from the underside of the car, but there's a lots of ideas on how to make like battery charging faster or simpler er or smoother require less mean ground. The problem is that iron was also showing up mox of like what if we got rid of all the parking lots around the stadiums and they were just parks, and like, well, all the robot taxes are going to drop off the hundred thousand people to take him where they gonna go to charge on these. So you just want fields of inductive charging pad that seems like a weird what a weird thing to want to put somewhere.

everything somebody shows. One of those I just think of the traffic data from new york or uber and left for like i'll get everybody off the roads. And actually, what IT is now is there are just like fifty percent more cars because it's just uber and lifts driving around waiting for somebody to get in the car. We we actually made IT worse. And and yeah if we have a bunch of robot taxi, they got ta go somewhere.

Um I once try to explain the concept of induce demand to my family, which is that the concept if you make the highway wider, more people will take the highway. They are so fun at parties and what because they are like, we should make the highway bigger. And I like the thing called, and do boy did that not make sense to anyone? Uh, and I feel like this trade off of, we put a park near soldier field instead of a parking lot, and then we're gonna need to build a field of like inductive charging pads for all the cyber caps to go to the charge, whatever that I ve just saying one .

city at a time yeah, yeah, that's your problem. Yeah no, I think I think that's right. So we will give you a push on that.

But again, were going to have to restore this so many times. Uh and then your third one was, uh, existing tesla will not be able to turn into robot taxi. And I think you're taking a loss on that.

I think this was also push because we don't know about hard worthy. We don't know if it's only the very newest ones or if the hardway three, which has the I mean, they they all have a little resolution cameras, but we don't know which ones. This is also want to give you .

like a like a late loss. 被 拿到。 I'm not taking all your money, but i'm not happy with you.

Yeah, only be a little bit embers.

I yeah.

you hit me. My .

predicted that .

the cars were driven by optimistic robots to push.

You don't know there's two seats in the car.

You were not what what you shall have predicted as the opposing robots we driven by people well.

so this is where my second one really hits, uh, which is they they were going to do a demo that didn't work. And yeah well, the demo .

worked in that the people controlling the option minister about ts full some other people in like a lot of people optimistic the future. And once again, I will point out that uh honer had those robots like a decade ago that could like jump in flip yeah boston robotics. I mean, they will sell you a legally armed robot dog today, and they are desperate for customers, so even trying to sell themselves a long time.

yes. I mean, if you're in the market for a robot dog with a gun on its tail, make the call. You never know what's going to the least deals are out of control um and then you know chucky cheese exist .

yeah I mean, truly one of the funny things about this whole event to me with all the people like taking the videos and self of the robots being like, well, this is so cool. And my reaction to all of these videos, which are very impressive, like these robots are holding conversations there, doing really complicated gestures and motions, like all kinds of really impressive of ones like, I think, run, run to in our tricks or something. If the robots were that good, there would be no other story IT would that would have been the event? They would have been like, oh my god, we fixed robots like we we did IT.

I need decorate myself. Boston mx was purchased. They did complete the purchase in two thousand twenty one hand, a motor group by boston dynamics. So that means one day in ka have a more advanced optimist. Then the tesla that also makes .

me there's a hundred dealership literally down the street from me uh, that but I was say four years ago was like kind of di and gross. And they have now expanded to its two full blocks long in our town. Uh, and I now assume one of those is for robot talks with guns. And yeah, I fear for my life in this neighborin.

Now the headline and eye triple vector, which the great magazine, a handy boys, boston and I have extremely one billion dollars. Now, what very good sounds.

right? Uh, but yet the robots was just like if I had been even remotely close to as good as those robots appeared and they were actually automated. N, A, I, that would been the most incredible tech demo in the ever. This was like, no, of course there are people on the other side of this like I think where IT made IT out was they were walking automatically and everything else .

was was human assistant. Which of? And also you can just roll up to a boston nature bot and kick IT and it's like, that's fine. I I won't fall down and no one was touching the yeah I get IT you you want up to to exist. You want to prove that it's great.

The videos I saw, I think my kids posted when I saw few others where they were just talking to the opener robots, and they were just talking back like, R, U, A, I is like, you do. I don't know. It's like, that's a guy you ever talked to.

jack. G, P, that's just a guy. Uh, all right, in the your last prediction.

So that's two else. Yeah, drivers, i'll take IT. I I should .

have gone with. Its a thing you can buy. I really should. I I was sitting there being like, this is a thing you can buy, but that was like, that doesn't make any sense that .

IT would be and I should to stuck my guns. And existing tesla r taxes. But we basically we took the opposite side as pert. It's it's a light ill for both of us.

No, it's a light dub for me, a light l for you. Let's be let's be honest here.

So it's some existing tesla.

but maybe not most. It's like, you know, we're going into half time in the score is tied. But like i'm playing much Better than you. You I mean, like that's where we are. I have all the moment site that's it's going on .

now here how to enjoy about just struggling your way .

towards the more exactly .

fair i'll give IT to just because, you know, I want you to hit the hide so the crash is that much sweater ful. But in the long .

again kind of view.

uh, so that's at the robot taxi event. Oh, by the way, I need, I need to say this about the robot. And one .

more time the .

he showed a picture of IT. They showed some Marks of the interior of all of the things. This is the one that will not .

arrive the .

way that IT looks and Operates and works. It's just not gonna .

happen that way. I we've seen basically this idea in roughly this design a billion times over, just like in so many ways, nothing about this concept is new at all.

That's what my confidence comes from. Yeah when they tesla or another elon company does the Walkers thing that no one else has tried because it's too hard alright let's give you to catch the rocket you know I mean, yeah when you're like, um well is again yeah in .

every city of the future thing this is what this is look like. You have every single one of them for fifty years. This is what they look like. Uh, and I just H I figured that out.

You know, the different Green space acts and text as the fuck in cyber truck wiper, like you have a grand plan to reinvent basely one shot, well, will get IT done. You're like wipers. Start with the drawing. Ard, no idea what to do.

Yeah, are there wipers on the rockets? I feel like they probably work date.

yeah. You know, the gambles on the thrusters, a lot of things in the rockets s work that's all doing IT. And then over here, like what if one big wiper, let's do IT if like that doesn't not work .

enough itself lapping it's.

but it's a bad wiper unsex taking this solved problem in trying to resolve ve IT is very much the tesla mode right now. Um and it's like this event is the most solved problem. How do you move six people around the city? It's called an escalate. Just do IT just yeah make an escalate.

It's going to I mean, we we make kind of way more for just getting a bunch of like Christoper pacific as that actually like IT does. He does work.

Yes, actually a very funny thing. I was looking a chart of percentage of E V sales by car maker and segar has a like shockingly high percentage of because of way because of waa. That's so funny because we buy so many e they're taking platforms at work and making them autonomists.

And it's it's like they're just moving along there. Are we testing on the streets in new york now? Uh, in the adding cities are moving along, making the progress and then forever this is twenty twenty seven, right?

And tell us whole thing is like launched the giant thing and then work backwards from IT. And that worked enough times that he gave them a lot of confidence. And um I think there's very little evidence it's going to work this time or has worked the last couple. But we should move on. We have other, other steps.

Talk them by the way, I think we were both one .

for three yeah now well.

to push for me .

in yeah you, you, you one.

Congrats you .

a cybercash.

There's an astro s by this win. Uh, i'll take for thirty grand.

No, i'll buy you a cyber cap. I'll buy you rebelled in when he comes out.

right? There is other news, actually quite a lot of other news. We should start IT.

There's been a lot of rumors about apple doing in october event or obviously running out of october. A lot of rumors are in for max. Who knows it's going to happen.

We're waiting on apple intelligence to hit that feels very likely that will happen this month. But again, we're running out of october. Yeah, and I think they just needed to announce the new ipad with a new chip in IT. And then they just did IT. They just put out a press release .

and others a new ipad money. Yeah, at some point, I have just given up waiting for apple to link really care about the ipad mini ah and I thought that it's not a good device. I think it's a very good device, and I think the new one is probably also very good.

But IT is so clearly not interesting to apple for for whatever reason, right? Like there's a subset of people who really like IT. The new one even is clearly not impressive, like it's fine. It's going to be a very good ipad mini. But IT has IT has IT has last year's chip.

There is a pilot somewhere that just bank to the plane super hard, angrily.

what they are listening to this. Listen, I got a lot of posts, I wrote the story, and I put every pilot favorite tablet in the deck of our story. Like, you can't owe me harder than I own myself people but the like it's it's just to back up. great.

right? Which is the last one of these was three years ago and total redesign. They did a bunch of cool stuff.

They squared off the edges. They got touch I D in the, in the power button. Like all good stuff, it's a really good device. This one is just purely a speck up and faster everything, faster connections, faster processors. To me, the thing that the most telling is in a year where apple upgraded the ipad air to the m two and the ipad pro to the m4 and and actually launched the m four with an ipad like that， that is an apple does not do that stuff by accident that is like a statement of this is what this device means in our lineup. Uh, this thing at the eight seventeen pro, which was in iphone last year.

do you think they just like, well, we got all iphone fifteen pro .

parts Jason snow rote, a really good thing at six colors, basically positing that that is, this is a good trip. It's the least you need to work on apple intelligence. So apple is is just trying to pull people along with not quite like garbage bin parts, but like that already had, right? This is the upgrade you can do without trying very hard and and that will work like that.

I'm sure this mini will be very good. No one I know had performance issues with the last. Many just want to do fine.

It's all going to be fine. But every single time one of these comes out, I hold out hope that apple is going to do something new for IT. Give me a keyboard case, come up with a new idea about how people are going to use this thing. Uh, we ve got pencil pro support, which is nice. Uh, but the story of this is just IT is slightly worse and smaller.

slightly worse.

Yes, it's not the m two. It's not the m four thing will feel old much sooner than the other ipads that came out this year. I thought even slightly .

worse and comparison to old like it's an ipad mini. But this one will hurt you in some way. The glass is jagged. This one I had many.

but IT pokes you once every eight minutes, and you never know.

You made in comparison to the rest of the .

compression to the rest, right? And like the what you would want really is basically to have this one be just as good and slightly smaller, right? Like this is what people want from the iphone mini. Like, give me one that is just as good, but slightly smaller. And apple is resolutely not doing that with any of its products.

I mean, I wonder if first thermal use a sticking and serious chip in a well, who who knows the thing that gets me, I believe, is Christopher s, your colleague from the journal, who I think his post was just make IT a phone lady just called this the iphone ultra plus max. People would buy IT because people love big phones yeah and it's so funny because even if you wanted to use an ipad mini or thought you could not, because IT doesn't run iphone apps.

right?

Well, there is a ipad. O S is like in this weird twor zone.

there is a real like, what if I had an ipad and an apple watch and that was my computing set up that I think could, in theory, be very compelling in in the way they are describing, but apple just want that. You're right. If this was a giant iphone, I think that would actually be more interesting as a device than as a tiny ipad.

Yeah but it's I know what that does not run instagram.

right indefensibly .

so IT doesn't run instagram yeah and it's it's not so much bigger than my iphone sixteen max yeah but which .

I think the strange thing at this point, especially as the phones have just continued to get bigger, I mean, the sixteen pro max is six point nine and is right now the ipad mini is eight point three inches, which is a difference, but it's not that huge. A difference like the only main user interface thing is, a you can run iphone apps and b, you don't get the pencil support on the iphone.

That's that's in the picture. Apple's own press picture of the mini is a hand holding IT like a phone like this, yes. And like the only difference is the fingers are off.

That's a huge hand. I have a big hand and my fat is a big hand. Um we're going to get there.

It's going to happen one day. And then the go to t jobs is going to be very upset with everyone. I was looking five and five, which was like the biggest let IT get.

And he is like your phone as to hit the opposite. Ipad mini is a fun, the future, right? Can you explain this next one to me? Because I don't understand.

This is helping you AMD intel and a bunch tech companies formed in alliance. Uh, it's called the x eighty six advisory group. Microsoft, google, ma woo and then truly intel an A M D, which are ferocious rivals. They form the X D six ecosystem advisory group pack. All singer announced IT on stage that will know those tech world twenty twenty four conference, that hot dest conference of the year and gelsinger said, X A D said, what we are alive and well yeah my we are .

alive and well. T shirt is answering a lot of questions raised by my well um I the only thing I can read into this is just pure existential fear from these companies right of ARM of ARM yeah and and I think frequently with good reason apple has been so has completed its transition to its own ARM based silicon stuff and is just lapping everybody else in in like raw sort of everyday device performance. IT is just crushing the competition com.

Uh, I think for like a decade made promises that IT couldn't keep about. It's ARM performance and how he was going to bring like all of the efficiency of mobile and all the power of destroy and put that together and IT was going to be magic. And I think l an AMD and others watched com sort of try and fail, do that and really like a cable that will never get there.

It's not going to happen. And I think you could argue with relative success that quality is there now. And I think it's very clear that qualcomm is going to get there right, whether or not you believe it's a real X A D six competitor now with the the snap dragon to eat and all that up in the new copy plus PC is not that it's either there or its clifts.

And I think that leap was so big that all of these other companies just panicked. I mean, intel is obviously like sort of collapsing in on itself, like a dying star in in so many ways right now. And A M D is of, I think, in a slightly curious position.

Yeah, but they not so would very much like to not have quon become a dominant player. And the whole chip industry has just turned right. Like you have you have what apples doing, you have a invidia doing, you have a calm is doing and all these other chip makers are without they're being like, oh my god, this happened so much faster than we expected. Yeah, I just I don't know how to read IT are on .

the a eyes side of things. I so I actually I read this is like a data center announcement of all of the things interest even though the lion of a conference x sex is still doing well in data center r and then you know in video I think gets a lot of the shine for A I because it's selling so many of its gp C A I companies. But like no X Y six processors outperform the in series in a bunch of a eye tasks.

The emd is a pretty healthy business selling GPU that there's just a whole thing there, right? We're like you. If that is the big market, you mind as well put together the big competitor to ten video and say, like here's your other path because all all the big companies would like not to be locked into in video.

I don't know about consumer PC at all, but I truly don't. I guess they are on side of novel of but they weren't like waiving that cops around. Um it's true. And so I just to we wear the microsoft is like copilot plus pcs mostly ARM chips. And then also over here on the third platform, the way or tito forever.

Well, I think with a lot of that stuff there is the the ARM advancement has just happened so fast. While I think xd six, particularly with intel, has just been like stuck in the mud for a long time, the intel has kind of gone version after version of its ships without sort of meaningful progress on some of the stuff that people really care about.

Uh, I think in theory, the idea of banding together on this is like, okay, we can sort of rising tide, lift all boats here by meshing together some of the work these companies are doing and saying, okay, we're all going to build Better chips, which is actually going to benefit all of us instead of just, you know, sort of running in parallel and all trying to reinvent the wheel on our own. Which I think is a good strategy. I just think they are way too late in study this move.

Let me just radio the list here to support my data in our claim. Broadcom, dell, google, hute, paccard enterprise as well as hp. In the other one, the ovo meta, microsoft, oracle and red hat. And then just for fun lines or revolves in time, you know, guys, those are all the people that run trying I mean.

the picture at the top of the press releases a data center like it's not it's not unclear what they're doing here. Uh, we know I think I think you're right and I think it's that's all fine, right? Like there are many of these companies have big businesses like you mention.

Google is in this and it's because of google cloud, right? We run data centers. We kind of meet this to work because othe wise, we're hosed paying in video every penny we have also .

anties are also building your ships on the side. Yeah, right. Microsoft is building in some chips. They have a lot to say. If you're microsoft and you want ARM on windows to work, you get to walk in the call of office. And if I do what we want, you're IT right? Or we're going back to l, which someone, he has to tell them what to do.

So you just a little building TPU like this, is this? Yeah, everybody is on this.

Uh, well, i'll see. I just think it's something is happening in the world of X A D six chips. And this is one of those things. That's what I got for you right now. And I will say that if you are you ever positioning of a keynote and you are like make the side say we are alive and well, just take a beat. Just really, just really think about what that means.

everyone. Yeah yeah. I mean, again, like it's it's then trying to convince the world, uh, Alice and Johnson, who rote the story, made the point that this whole thing might have just went to convince investors that, like, yes, we are taking ARM seriously uh, might have been true, really would have been a super good idea that like .

what if you faced down the ferocious competitive monster of the video with a committee that works, as well as the USB in a poster swarm? Give leather .

jackets in the committee .

a couple more? A bit of gadget news. Sonus announced a new ark ultra sandbar in sub four to two pieces here.

I would say one, I think they've decided the up is good enough again because he pauses new releases because the APP was so broken. But they know we've talked about this theyve like released their plan fixed IT. They've mostly fixed IT.

They're doing the public fellow board with the future updates to come, which is incredible. Um you out there and he later, as in our sea weed, is he has given his mediator about what he found in his report, which was we shouldn't release a shady APP shocking revolution. But I think they think they're fine.

They have gotten really need to be in a time to start living products. So it's a thousand dollar arc ultra. It's more powerful than the regular arc. Uh, and it's got new transistors from onic called meat mate M A Y H T. I think it's a yeah uh so much company in twenty twenty two.

They are like specialized speakers, basically IT called sound emotion in the quote is one of the most significant breakthrough in audio engineering in nearly one hundred years. The aox greater clearly dept. ImbaLance than ever before possible in the sandbar of the sleep seven, two to six mid buffers, a building buffer, and you get nine, one, four from all from the one summer.

What do we know that sound motion like? I do feel like sonus is not typically prone to grandier lies about its own sound quality. So I am more inclined than a lot of companies to believe them when they say this is a big deal. But I also uh, that just seems like a lot of words.

It's a it's it's definitely a lot of audio processing OK. So I the original arc long time ago and I tested IT against my own five one four with actual speakers in the ceiling and I thought the art did a great job actually um but he was obviously more processed yeah if that was the trade off like very clearly the tradeoff was, boy, there's not as much stuff happening around me when I use my actual system versus the art and the arch is like, boy, there's a lot of stuff happening around you and boy, just sounds like more audio processing is occurring to make IT seem like a bunch of stuff is happening around you.

I've never been happy with how these things sound for music. I just think music movies are two different things. yeah. So I ve never heard this IT. I'm excited to hear IT and Chris watch is excited to review IT.

But you know, the notable thing is we're getting to the place where nine, one, four out of a sandbar is possible for a thousand dollars, which is, if all that works, that is incredible. That is a system that would, you know, even if you buy cheap speakers, a receiver that can support nine, four gear, you're out for thousands of dollars. And then you got to put him in the ceiling. So to do IT in a standbys for a thousand boxes precooked.

Well, that I think that's been soon as this thing with summers for a minute. Now even what IT describing about the A S right is like it's it's almost as good or like very good, if not as good, uh, with essentially none of the effort and and that I think the whole pitch of sound bars in general, I have become a big believer in sound bars as somebody who is like just not going to put nine speakers in my house, just not going to happen to love to, but is not going to happen. But I think the idea that you if you can use this processing to get even most of the way there with just a thing I planned in front my television, that's pretty powerful like I I think that stack goes a really long way for an .

awful lot of people. I just clear on speakers that is thirteen.

You're right .

that that's Bakers like I .

put in nine, not putting in thirteen.

I five one four system, which is nine, and that's a lot of speakers .

but .

yeah are ugly to me. Nine one four out of a samba is legitimately kind of cool if he works. So excited for that. By the way, the quote from CEO patric expense is we have reached level of quality in the act that gives us the confidence to launch our extraordinary new products. Uh, they have ninety percent of the previous apps features with the forthcoming update and more on the way.

I think that's all fine. I also think at some point, if you're so knows, you just have to start shipping stuff like you can you you can only sort of sit there and apologize so many times and eventually you have to chip new things in the about to be the holidays. And I think like we just got to the point where I like, well, what is we're just going to ship the thing, which I think is fine, right? Like how I don't know how much longer they are supposed to see and how to be themselves up about the very bad .

APP that they shipped. Yeah, i'm dying with this thing. I'm a review. I will say one of the if you have a regular sort of five point one system, the the biggest, most noticeable upgrade is front height.

I'm interesting to have your three speakers in front you the the most immediate upgrade is not over your head, it's in front of you and up because your ears are pointed to the front to basic biology. Uh, so you put the two speakers above the other speakers and like things are coming at you from above there. That is a huge ub grade.

If you can figure how to get that upgrade today, you should do IT. But a sound bar or even the speakers you put on top of views, speakers or necessarily reflecting from the middle because they can't make the sound come from straight up. So that's always a thing. Curious, but well, revolutionary new transition or stated.

And I still listen to the audio out of my crappy TCL rocket. So I am, I am looking forward to the day that one of these feels worth buying.

I have my like five one system from college and drive your house. It's not great within every .

time I leave for work, I come home. And ana has like a rearranged one room in our house. I think next time SHE leaves, you should come over and will to set up speakers everywhere. IT really awesome.

Uh, I last one. It's just four k and sixty four from outlook.

I'm so about this. So this thing has been a year in the making. Maybe I think like we've been getting teases about this for an incredibly long time. It's the analog 3IT just looks like an intended sixty for actually the thing kind looks like a second genesis。 Uh, but it'll play sixty four cartridge.

IT has a controller uh, as somebody who grew up with the end sixty four, like the way I would date my childhood is the intended to sixty four. Uh, i'm so excited about this thing. And analogue does a really great job of emulating stuff in and letting you play old cartoons with these things.

H, I have, I have every confidence that this thing is actually going work really well. The unsexy y is notoriously hard to emulate. And, uh, analog seems to feel very good about having pulled off, which i'm excited about.

They change the controller, do not have the weird third thing in dol.

which is a bomb, to be honest, like I love the stupid controller. You'd never made any sense because you only ever held the middle one in the right one. Yes, because you're not you don't have three hands, but IT does still have the the ports on the front for plugging in and sixty four controller, which I love. I don't know if you actually even works, but as what just as the way IT looks and into IT.

let me ask you really dumb question is only takes cartridge or you can play off cards like S T cards. I think IT always takes cartridge.

so no IT IT takes IT has two years people to end N S T part so you'll still be able to be able to put out on um and I wonder how true this is. I think there are probably a lot of people out there who still have a and 64 dump .

them as I always do and always have， which is how .

I play older night now. It's totally five.

I bought one of those Ambering c game boys.

and to just ships with like six thousand games on IT .

mama's on great and my friends over and so like what's this and the other without missing a beat？ Like it's a game boy. Like that's a, that's A P, H, D, theses and three marking.

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I were back. So amazon introduced new kindle this week. David, you were at the event was which very notably was the first event at amazon for panasonic, who virtue the stars almost certainly remember red from his time, microsoft, when he ran windows and surface. How is that event .

really interesting? So I think they did IT in a very unusual way. IT was like a IT was an bargoed event. So the whole existence of the thing was not public. I was basically just like a media brief ing.

But they framed IT in his event as I got up on stage and gave a whole speech a very clearly what's going on is whenever they do a big, big thing, IT is going to have to be the future of exxon ah but they wanted to let give the kindle its moment, right? And they launched four kindles at once, which I think has never happened in the history of the kindle that IT was like its a full line reset and that was fine. Like the this team loves kindles.

I always forget how many people love kindles. Like the the traffic to our website on the day launch suggests that a lot of people really care about candles. Uh and the the team is making self pon been there for like almost exactly a year and has done a lot of stuff with the kindle teams since he'd spent there. Uh so as cold did actually just get to like live in kindle universe for a minute Normally that I just like update the website, like here's some new kindle and this was like, this is much bigger .

than that so what are .

the you want so is for, uh, I go from cheapest to most expensive so the cheapest is just a regular kindle, uh, which has some you know spec improvements. Liberate IT comes generally cool new match, a color that like a lot uh but it's still just the base kindle. The newspaper weight has a bigger screen, brighter screen, faster processing.

They like redesigned a little bit, has really nice like viBrant colors. A one thing I heard a bunch from focus damage was the whole sort of book talk movement. And the thing where people are like dazing their kindles has really changed the way they think about the device.

So they're leaning into its sort of making IT more fun. A the paperwork is the kindle right? And like a very real way, this is the biggest, most important kindle in the lining up. No one seems you very good. Uh, there is the kindle scribe, which is the the biggest one that you can take notes on.

They made lots of changes to that uh, including some gene I stuff where you can write your notes and then have described either summarized them or just like neily, format them and fixture handwriting so you can share them and find them more easily. Uh, but that's still described. And then the big announcement was the the kindle color soft, which is the first color kindle and basically it's a paperweight with a color display and theyve been some really interesting like display stack work to make that work.

Uh, it's very expensive, but IT is like the one that they were like. This is sort of the moment for a new kindle. Uh, looks really great. I like you look at color and like, what do I need from color in a reading device? But then just looking at IT on a table, seeing the book cover and now it's in color just instantly like all this is great yes.

I was I played with the newspaper that you had an office and it's very fast .

that's superfast yeah to get us .

I the only everything I say as I ask back if you went to color kindle and SHE, just look to me to stop trying up by me kindles. This is the problem. You're here.

We're entire right now with panic, panic. And once we're done of that, we going to go to add we'll be back with the letting around. Well, first .

casts, have you been on the first cast before? Yeah, but not in your current iteration, new panels.

Do you feel like .

a different person? I don't know.

You guys come right out. Sweet, believable. We got to .

do this for thirty minutes. I feel like good.

We've got a lot .

of news to talk about. You launched several thousand new kindles that you have to talk about.

IT is the IT is the most kindles been launched, I think in history of which is kind of is .

part of what we should do about. But the legislative you um I think our audience knows you well over the years, you you've launched a lot of things. You've a protect for A A long time. Uh why why do you go to amazon? Just the punch.

You are microsoft for the longest time, you did all the surface stuff there. And then IT was kind of a surprise, right? You left microsoft to go to amazon. That was a surprise. I think people are very curious why why the move? I feel like you had a ring camera and you were maybe had a bug and you like i'm going to be on.

There are a few details I wanted to get. Is IT not of this fix this right now? You know what? I'm just going go.

So where you to fix this? yes. Yeah, I don't think that was exactly that. But there is is a little bit, a little bit to that. Know you think about the products between Green, blank, ero, fire T, V, fire tablets, elea, echo, kindle satellites zooks.

Like you just look at that and you, what what can you do? And when this technological pipe, you know, of A I that's coming, which he eventually ends up being a red thread between all these things, how they all connect and you can change people's lives, like, yeah, it's not a bug. It's just it's just awesome like, awesome and so you know IT energizes me plus you know um it's it's like another chapter is a great thing, cool thing .

yeah is there is there an underlying A I bet underneath all of that, like when you came in because I think you you are making this move right kind of at the beginning of the holly crap. A I is going to change everything in a moment. And we've been talking to people now for you know two years who are like everything that you can see or touch or imagine. I is rated to platform shift because that is .

that a real one too? Like it's very real. Yeah one hundred percent that.

And so when you asked the question like what did you go to amazon like first is an amazing company. Second, values are crazy cool, you know. But third, well.

That shift is real. And I think what you can do um specially the consumer space waiting do for people in their everyday lives of the church. So if you combine IT, you know it's a pretty easy answer, not simple, you know chAllenging. 应该 是 human emotional on every way。 No question.

Let me just ask you, you amid all the things, zooks is the autonomous taxis type I ba taxi per is the satellites. What is the connection between kindle in the satellite?

You know you don't need to try, you don't need to stretch everything in pom together that's not go OK. It's just you know how you impact people's lives is different. Those things OK. I was just one because you getting broadband everybody versus um and I just think about the impact that has one people like for for me like it's like a dream um if you know helping people relearn, create that one side on a kindle and so game changing for life to make sure you know you're reading, learning, getting into a book disapearance and to eden that's one that's one way to think about is just positive everywhere. Um and then satellite are distributing ing broad down to the world where everybody needs to say impact both the massive but very different ways.

One of the things that could connect a bunch of these products, alexa, obviously you're talking A I the opportunity for alexa to be a smarter kind of A I product. I think a lot of people can see IT. Yeah is that happening?

You working on yeah um we are working on IT. I'm not necessarily here to talk about IT. I think I will be back soon to talk about IT say another way to say, I mean, if you have me back will see because so far i'm frustrated with both years so i'll see how this goes like .

how is no that they will say, like what we can do the .

king is carefully called, yeah I got like.

write IT should I leave? Yeah, like to turn out away what?

But I mean, you are the face of, uh, products people love for a long time. I think you just had an event, David. I think you read the kindle launch event and I gotten immediate text from David. It's like I missed panopea a presentation .

like did I I I that yeah yeah .

he was a little IT was a less of a tech presentation yeah yeah be here and I just that .

was microsoft also has big platform. And as a lot of products, you can connect in different kinds of a great that I was just cry like to jump from one big company's ecosystem, do not a big company's ecosystem trying to pull them together. IT seems like the same chAllenge for that sounds very much like you think of the opportunities is is different.

They're very different. You know, they're very different in the way I at the name zon like the amount of consumers you connect around the world and IT with the technology shift.

You know, IT seems like buzzard at this point to say A I I can't so hard for me to duck then with A I um what we're going to be able to do with alex, a just connect people I am not talking about in detail today, but it's going to be transformative and how IT connects um throughout your life with all the devices that we just talked about, all the brains that are coming together both in the home and outside of the home. It's just it's after it's so it's so energizer, there's another side to a too though yeah like the leadership principles that amazon are surreal. They're fully line with the way I love running teams um you know connecting people and what that means. Focus on a customer. Well, before this becomes a faulty coder episode.

you you're going to do at some point. I have lots of questions about leadership principles that you guys will get to some other time. S yeah.

I can talk about leaders principles all day.

They're just they're awesome. But if you not show you fascinated by just the scope of but like you said, I was four kindles at once, which I think amazon has never, ever done. And I feel like that's either like an accident of technological development or like a very much on purpose. Kindles were so back kind of moment. Uh, which one of those .

things that I mean seriously come on, IT is not to be a acted, as you know, kindles, one of these products, I kind of transgender other products in a sense of its a brand and it's a thing and it's identified as e readers and all about reading all this connection to IT is so powerful, but at all oh, reflect back on the people making IT. I joined amazon about a year ago.

One of the first couple of minutes I had was on kindle now inspired to see like where we um in a team with a bunch of stuff in the volt, basically like we're close. We're thinking, what do you think what you think we know? We SAT down, we looked at all, so sorry, you know, in on the color soft, we looked, and I said, if the color is great, won will not compromise any experience.

Now there are some limitations, with chAllenging in others, flashing other small chAllenges and how bright it'll be. And you always compared to no LED and what that means. And if this team that's just obsessed about the detail in which, of course, there my heart. And so about a year ago now, we looked at the full line up and we made we made the investment that said, let's get after these products what's launch more reading has momentum, literally. I mean, kindle brand product line is growing um and there's a whole new generation of readers.

I think what was the stat that sixty percent of people who bought a kindle I that that was so surprising.

So because you also have this up into the right reading trend. And so um here when you put those two things together, IT basically says people who have always read are still reading and there's a whole new cohorts coming in reading and um it's happening right now. I love IT because you have jene millennial who are are diving into the power of like disapearance into a book and views on you know took tokyo s my book tok.

And there's a lot of energy people are bedazed their kindles right now. That's that's always a signal sign that's cool. But a year ago, we SAT in a room.

Um you mean these are coming very personal, passionate. So what? I should close that.

But a year we SAT in that room. Yeah was very answer the questions. Super conscious like next year, kindle will be the year of kindle.

Let's go. IT will bring colour. We will bring IT where he belongs, will bring a new level of link.

IT are writing and and we will refresh the product, you know? Or just what would you call products that people already love? I'm super .

fascine about that moment because I feel like the kindle is really unusual kind of device and that IT just won so long ago that there has been I think you you can perceive kindle as both like a giant success and as kind of a slow moving product line over time. The assistance like we did the thing right, like ten years ago, just here's the paper way.

It's great you're never going to buy another one again because you're not going to have to do and in a certain way is like Victory for the kindle, right? And so I think there were people who like that's a great thing. But on the other hand, also, there's other stuff happening.

There are other companies out. They're doing interesting things with ean can building new kinds of things. We have. We have people who like import weird ec devices from china just to like try what IT looks like to run android on them. Like there is there is a David .

talking about himself.

I am talking about myself, my books palmer is just outside of this run and and I have a lot of questions for you off camera. I'll help you put them here like in that moment you're like, okay, the kindle is in most ways a gigantic success for what IT is, right? Like IT IT one. The thing that was trying to win, how do we move this along, strikes me as kind of a complicated question. And that also feels like I especially something like describe you have given the kindle a new job to do for the first time.

a really long time yeah but a very focus job. Okay, a very focus job. I think that's part of what kindle is like kindles all about reading and now it's about reading and writing and is that simple is are both very ante behaviors in humans um and just say that focus distraction free um create while you write, create while you read.

These are big things for me, for the team. Not sure what had to think about IT other than when you say I go, you know kindle. Kindle is a fantastic brand.

I don't think it's even near its peak, okay, not even close. I mean, not even close kindles also very humble brand. I mean, maybe that's why you say i'd had IT state.

Now it's it's it's so meaningful to people I call a humble so means a lot to people 就是 it's made a difference in their lives and still does。 But here's a great example. Like if you had a paperwork from four years ago and you'd love that paperwork, you do yeah people love their kindles like love yeah but I think .

this would like my wife loves or kindle I like, do you wanted, knew and and her answer is basically why?

right?

Yeah and on the one thing you can read that is huge success, but absolutely .

and if people are reading is a win and why means it's a robust meaningful device and is doing the job IT was meant to do, however, um as an example, i'll chAllenge do this for me. Go hand the new paper way .

I think if I handle the color one, then we will .

have a different country, I think, change.

I.

Keep buying kindles. But can I ask actually a different variation .

on the question because I I think the answer to I think what you are saying what can I answer this question um I look at you don't think David .

actually asked a question I think you just made a bunch of statements there.

ChAllenge me, right? The question is, does kindle have a lot of competition and there an ecosystem of things, other devices, using the eating screens to drive that technology forward? Because there hasn't been a lot of action OA displays.

There's a lot of action in OA displays that technologies were entrenched moving forward and you can build newkirk of products and whatever those this place can do. Kindle is like the is the main product in its category. Yeah do you thinking as a bunch competition, the drawd, do you think that the underlying you say .

competition is always a great thing? Yeah, to start there, I think always been IT always will be like just makes everybody Better, got to be a good thing. But I would also say like, yeah, I don't think you know that the tech is not done is not even close.

I think there's another level that that comes and is actually purpose. Um I have had had several these arguments in the past, but you know L C D have its purpose. Olet has its purpose. That line blur is quite a bit. Do you know where the what the delta might be, what the purposes between each um and so super close.

But when you get down to aim displays and just the softer field, softer on the eyes, which you're getting from IT and there is something about IT that is just is uh romantic um IT will we'll stay. That delta is critical, you know, this is for these are noisy, this is simple. But that simplicity dos mean there is an elevation to be had.

There's a ton of IT left. You know, when you start, you can start getting into color, you can start getting into ink, you can start getting into speeds. Um all of IT is important, but IT doesn't need new life. When you're making products, you don't need these massive leaps to change people's lives. Sometimes it's like the most subtle different h has the sexus massive impact.

So let's say let's go back to um let's just go back to reading will use your wife as example since you you put on the table SHE loves her paper White yep rick one of the newspaper White colors of leap you know there's a different level of emotion so it's easier understanding this is the book. This is how the author intends you to see the cover. You like reading comics or take travels, new book or whatever.

It's a color. It's a color book you just know read through. It's very cool. But if you if you take IT just so its more simple level and you handle the new paperwork and just ever use IT, then you will experience something is just back to this point of as a very subber change to massive change really technically. But it's a subtle change to the user, which is basically speed of page turns.

It's the first in auto.

I think of the David has IT doesn't. It's crazy. You hand somebody who had a four year old pair wake the new one first. I like, I don't need IT and then they turn a page and I like, don't touch this .

in mind .

yeah I believe the emotion is it's not because there was color is not because is hugely, but not because you sight subtle but you feel IT and when you feel IT, you know this like it's so critical now all the thing is like this feels and while it's a massive technology shifting in the product itself under the cover zone, in many ways, just totally a different display that but you're now in this place of wow, the user just felt IT.

And I think I don't think SHE gives IT back yeah especially because all your books are there. Your content came with you, you didn't lose anything, you're not starting over. It's very seamless.

And so now you're just back into the book. You and not just faster is not like people are gonna read faster. You just feel Better. And so when you're reading and you feel great, you you read you just it's Better. But I was .

actually was so interesting about the kindle as a product for me instead, like from the very beginning, the kindle was always sort of not about itself like the the less you ve spent thinking about your kindle yeah.

the more it's like the truth .

in a product that disappears into the background.

no. And the first kindle really .

wanted you.

One board was .

watch your time to think that .

once like that split .

keys are .

are what my favorite things of. Once somebody other than jeff was in charge in the design IT hit a point where, and you know, we heard this from people for a decade, like the goal is pending paper, right? Like that is that that was the north star.

Like, I should feel like that you should crumple like that IT should have all the properties of a thing that you don't think about or worry about as technology. And that's, I think, a good in adorable goal and a lot of voice, but also makes building the product really hard because like, okay, every cool thing we build calls more attention to this device designed to not call attention to itself. And it's like if the goals just get people reading anything that you do that isn't open your book faster and turn the pages faster is both an upgrade and a downgrade in the experience. And that is a really complicated attention to sort through with a device.

Um here's what IT comes down to. Since people love the product summer, you just have to listen to what they love like they love IT, which is different .

than listening to what they are asking for.

correct? Yeah, thanks to what they love. And you know, with papery, just just listen. And at the end of the day, IT is they don't. This isn't about thinking about the kindles, about thinking about what they are reading and disappearing ing into IT. And then you start getting into the new on like, so what he loves, like, I just like the way IT feels like the way how much ways I like, what I can lean in any posture, like that I can lay by the beach, like that I could spill my coffee on IT like they don't say those words but you start listening like I don't know.

But one time I spill my coffee and then I just wiped and I kept reading and i'm like IT so you like waterproof, you know I need ah i'm laying at the beach like you know that we test IT with all water, you know that you can drop this thing in the pool like what you don't mean, not know IT, but that's what you love, where you can do IT. And now but the real trick is the comfort that the product brings when you're reading. So it's not in your way and IT disappears.

Take the new pair. White, like the screen just got settle bigger up to seven inches now, but the football, another device just barely grew, which means you still have that perfect center of gravity. When you're holding IT, you still don't think about the way that feels like a feather.

Know when you're holding in reading IT disappears later that a book and you're like you get to this point of um i've got you've got you know teams given the user more real estate subtask back to one of those things and I just you see more very simple. The pages sharing faster feels pretty good and but you haven't taken away anything they love. You just added to IT and I think critical. But IT is a product that I think disputes in .

to the background sound seventeen years ago.

I'm not not all about reading and IT works and works really well now.

So there's two parts of the kindle. A David mentioned the books pala was A I believe he caused the highest Spike in their sales ever. Uh, people like that device, they like other in devices because what you talk about, right, Younger people especially know that their phones are distracting.

They're drawn to a cheaper aint device that offers a more focused experience or just stop black and weight experience to cut down distraction in noise. There's a dumb phone move in out the world like idea that we should just not use our phones. Everything I see that the pala is a fine piece of hardware like a commodity eating screen.

The kindle is like integrated right hardware, software service behind IT. When I hear people complain, the most of that the kindle it's i'm locked into the kindle Y A system and I can't go out bookstores P D, F on this device. messy.

It's hard. And there's not looking APP store for kindle to let you extend the capabilities of the device. There is a little bit of a back and forth there, right where they love this device.

IT offers one very singular experience that might bring people in tune o system. They might love IT. And then to make IT do all the rest of things you might want to do, like describe, you have to let you go be a computer.

You've ta let IT be a writing device. okay? You gotten let to be a writing device. And then you got, it's a very slippery slope though, like once you try and get kind of too cute with features or go too far, um you start getting away from what I what we really want, which is the analogous you know moving from the analog to the digital and just writing on paper, he is very dangerous.

You once you started in reducing more, by the way, you can it's why like we added a couple of Jenny I features to IT um but too very simple. We have a list that we have such a long list. I think I was telling David the amount of features we could get um but I don't I don't think it's right to to confuse the scenario.

If you can create some ants, great. But the end of the day, what you need is fundamental. But pen down to start writing and as if IT was paper.

And we also reduce writing on a book, as if you are writing on a book. And so that translations also chAllenging. But I think we're getting pretty. I think we're there that we're close.

But here, a unique person talk this with because if I as I who knows the most about running a full Operating system with a pen on the east of customer mardis .

are I can find a person and .

then it's like and then you've got the other thing way at the other end of the spectrum.

We're like you can write on a book yeah.

those experiences are kindhearted towards each .

other a little bit.

I I mean or the at least for the kindle scribe, that the more you add capability to IT to do anything else, even if the capability is just as simple as you can access PDF and write on them and get your notes out. I go here's the files so that you can.

which you can right now, right? But IT with the new scrap.

but not it's still like within the kindle world and absolutely, there still a bunch of abstractions there in the feeling .

you're not going to get the extra distractions is not Better than when you go to attach a file to an email and you're like, oh, let me check the web right now let let me see reading about the verge let's sit like and that's .

my goal and let you .

down this .

I don't get the verge on the kind, but I think I think that's that all the way that was surface with a pen. Yes, right? That you're you're on the same spectrum .

somewhere tween a device that exists only for reading books and nothing else.

And and windows purpose built matters. Let me say that IT does, man, IT does.

Do you buy that for kindle specifically? For kindle?

Like, be careful. Like this is one of the beautiful things, like there are so many different things I can come together and make magic, don't get me wrong. And how they come together makes a difference.

I agree.

but I think but specifically in this space like. Of course, like course, you can should be able to right on your ipad or a PC or a surface or whatever is, of course you should, of course, you know, there's things to accomplishing, things to do. There might be a jo B2Be don e.

This is purpose driven. You don't need your paper to browse the web each don't the matter fact when you're writing, that's what you need to be doing sometimes, if not all the time. When i'm in a meeting, I take on my notes on my scribe now um I can't imagine trying to do IT on. I just don't i'd either that or a new book yeah but it's definitely not a full functioning computer because I just distracts me right out.

So that part where you ribe I to .

do on my morning on cribe, it's why we brought this summarized feature together.

yeah. So to go. This is the service aspect of IT.

The scribes is running kindle Operating system, is running some set of Jenny I features. So you summarized and takes in its out. Those go up to a .

cloud service and encysted cure sense back then.

They land text that you can use anywhere else. They land.

Yeah so you let's say ah in this case, in the summarize feature that feature you can I have I have I know so many new books now, but they are named by people. They're named by products, they're named by meetings, you know um they're also I have my morning notes generally IT falls into one of those buckets unless there's a creation bucket or an invention bucket.

You know i've got a few different ways I laid out, but let's say there's twenty pages in a book, one of my notebooks, right? Those twenty pages, and note that at a lot. And by the way, that there is something emotion about writing up because there's a recall.

I remember I wrote this note right here on the piece of paper. I know how I wrote IT, I know why I wrote IT, but once you send this to the cloud, my twenty pages, it's onna. Summarize all twenty.

Send IT back into a very simple format. yeah. I think O C R.

Handwriting recognition 是 take， look at the twenty pages, summarize, bring you back and kind of a beautification form like pick the fight you want to put IT in. We got a number of them. Um you can make a longer, shorter whatever.

But in very simple foments, two clicks comes down. Here is a summary of all my notes. I've got a page of notes from twenty pages written.

powerful. I'm just getting to whats A I is apply form shift. And now instead of having one converged device on the phone, I have three devices. Paper are right on. I've got. And one of the many, many microphone pints, the David is constant more through you, and that he can, he can talk you all day and may be, maybe, do you have a phone that is more, at some point, I want all those things to talk to each other in the idea that my A I pin does not know what the notes I took on my amazon scribe, does not know about an email I read on my laptop, actually create, like, the desire for me to have more luck in. I like, I fine.

I'm just going to buy all from one vender, my phone art, my the phone companies are telling me everything, uh, how do you break that like dig? Is that more interactive ability? Is that extending the kindle Operating system to do more and more things?

No, I don't think it's that. I think I think this I think interact ability is a great thing and you you know you you can find that you can fine economy move seems yeah between different OS for sure um I don't really lose a lot of sleep over IT. I also know that within the device family that amazon built like that will will continue because of you.

I become more seamless back to point one like the opportunity of chart. But I don't think you want to lock at all and I think you still need the intercept ability as well so that I think they both matter um and I think it's different for every person like you're going to end up in a place where you love a certain set of devices and I don't think you're going to have five in your bag. But if there's a purpose built device that you do need, you're gna take IT with you and makes a difference.

Um you're gna need that connectivity. But don't don't be confused, all your notes on your kindle today show up on your iphone like i'm a kindle up is right. There seem as as innovations pretty awesome and eventually you'll have editing those dogs on your iphone to i'm sure, but so like not to give away the future, right? But I aren't think there's a limit to that. So I don't when you say IT doesn't resonate much for me because we do believe an opportunity, we do want to see IT. Um you know we see your products, some of the other platforms and in a way that useful for customers where IT matters to them, not just to do IT or to check a box.

but that that matters. Five more question then .

we actually do.

Turns out you you were talking about the the sort of dedicated device and that .

isn't at some point. Doesn't my teams doesn't our teams save me at some point?

We're in this moment of like the supposed designer mediation of the smart phone, right? There's like we for years now, companies are like what is the thing that comes up to phones? And like digital cameras are making a comeback. I was buying cool pixel from twenty years ago. Again.

you been through that.

You've been making products through the whole rising sort of dominance of the smart phone. And you mentioned, you know the kindle of distraction free device to spend that thing for a long time has been successful for a long time. Do you buy the like big picture trend here that we we shoved everything into a phone and the next faces like pulling IT .

all back out again? No, no. I okay. Yeah um I don't know. That was a big picture trend. There are a lot of people who would like .

you to believe that IT is i'm not of them here.

Everybody who is really important people.

Anybody who's not google and apple would really like to be the kiss because that's a really great way for them to get around absorb taxes.

yeah. I mean, I think if you believe A I is a platform shift to you.

A I is a platform shift to.

but then so that you can control a new kind of user interface, right, the heart of feature. And then maybe I can get people stop you.

Yeah, I don't think the phones going away. Yeah, like all everything you said was right. I think the end part was odd.

yeah. I mean, look, phones are incredible utility in the product. You having your pocket right now probably is what a great product I and has its purpose and form. I do think jobs are gonna move off the phone when I think the phone goes away. I think we can make some magical products that have literally nothing to do with the phone.

Um and we're going to I mean, that's why i'm here at amazon like a go back to your first question, that is why i'm here and amazon like no question like we can the opportunity to make magic with the through line of A I as you said earlier, that's not fake yeah that is a platform shift. But to get a silly to say, you know remember twelve years ago when thirteen so years ago when I we had started surface, just give you an analogy. Not thought I want to go back there.

There are so many people that told me the laptop is dead. I mean, what are you doing is over the phone has replaced IT. That's what that was the main thirteen years ago, and that's what was happening now.

What was happening is certain jobs are moving to the phone, just shoppers. Great on the phone, social media's incredible the phone taking photos of a phone, predict good taxing, communicating um but then the jobs on the laptop just got to stronger. She's interesting the jobs that had to be done on IT, you know walk in any meeting and everybody opens their life what they do in in many places and you can do lot on your phone.

But but it's not that the PC was dying and its analogous, to take that analogy, the same thing. Now I think jobs gonna move after phone. I think there's probably Better products, and I know there is that are coming, you know products that will bring more famous, more selectness for I make IT more useful for people.

Um I mean, I mean, no, I might be working on some of those products right now when he turns out know where we started. I I believe that I only believe that I know it's and and I know is right for customers, like for people. But to say it's going away come on, just that's silly.

It's just I think jobs do move though. Does that analogy makes sense? Like the phones are going to away that screen in your pocket.

That's not the point. However, will they will certain jobs move and be Better somewhere else? I think yeah for sure.

Now is there a world where where everyone has a hundred devices and their bag? No, no, no. But you know some jobs, moto your rist and they're Better there.

Some jobs stay in your parking and their Better there. Some jobs will be on your eyes, they're Better there. And you know once that impact your seamless Operations like um a lot of things will be ambient devices where voices powerful. You know I know for those things, we ve got one hundred million people using him right now.

Like jobs are going to move there and they're going to be awesome and by the way, unbelievably powerful jobs and you're onna see IT on devices that my teams building like literally i'm not supposed talk about that I got see my teams like i'll talk about IT hold slow down on your you know so let's stop hinting echo and alex. I stop IT like bill, to be clear, like there's reality between bringing together all these things at time here, working with this amazing team and amazon ma, I can I am in telling you the product makers in amazon so good. And so you you just there's this opportunity to pull to pull a lot of things together. But think go back to original point. I'm not i'm not sitting here as a you know .

as part of the industry .

saying yes and the phone is going away like not come on so silly couldn't get me to say that about technologies that matter every day in our lives. I might be wrong, maybe be happy to be proven out fine by me, you know, make out of the options.

but giving A, I represents an opportunity to rethink the home.

I think so. Yeah, I think so. I think that's true.

Does these jobs move? yes.

But just like anything like you know that go back to mynott from thirteen years, IT was a way to rethink the PC too. Jobs moved to the phone that was a whole another said a technology that had the P. C. I like these job, have to get stronger. And you just read.

think how those are done. I think the last time you were here, you showed me the surface to.

is that right?

I think I was last time we had that you .

in the studio.

This IT was a cool call product.

Do you think there's opportunity to to enter the phone .

for you to make a see now you're bridges in the territory that you .

know got to end with a big shot.

Yeah swing, nice swing. What's the words that but is head wears that? But i'm not supposed to touch ponies.

We're going to have you back and you're going to talk about leadership principles for like several hours.

This can be yes, I think I mean, Lucy and got a lot .

of .

passion .

around IT. thanks. Fun .

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Power back the lightning round this. This week I sent slacks about getting lighting ground. Sponsor, 我。

do. They complishment how Richard are? We know.

I will say we there are some very creative ideas that are still not the idea of just having a state way around response.

if.

You got a company with toward lightning and the boy, do they want to.

sure. Yeah, it's a lot.

We're working on IT. Again, I have no uh ability or sophistication or experience and selling ads. So i'm just my job is to just say that every week just speak advertising into existence.

someone else somebody show .

up and someone here will figure IT out. I hope it's like .

the tamp a bay lightning, the N H, L. Team that eventually sponsors the living room.

That's basically where we're at. And I like I know IT doesn't have to be that complicated. Like sponsored by George, I think would work at this point.

I like that your name is George.

and you can write a check, call us up at some no, I don't know how IT works. I don't know if you can call us up to buy that anyway. There's kind of a lot in the lighting round there is you take the first one, alright.

So this happened today, thursday as a recording. Uh, google announced some pretty big org chart shifts, and this is the thing we've kind of been tracking all year. Google has been pretty aggressively changing the way the company works. Uh part of the in order to just A I if I everything. But I think partly because google has changed a lot of the company and you have a lot of people who have done there a long time who maybe don't want to be there anymore or are just tapped out on what you've been doing for a long time and like it's just changing a lot.

And the new one that happened on thursday with the para rog van, who has run search ads, several other things, but mostly he he is I was at the single most important person in terms of how google makes money and human, been for a very long time, is now stepping down from that role and is becoming google. I think the title is chief technologist. What's the nice way to say this? The title doesn't mean anything.

It's like this is what I mean we went through this with her oi law camera, right? Who was like i'm not leaving google. I'm just gonna take on other rules.

That's all finding good. They're going to continue to be interesting, important people inside of google. But like the way the google works is if you run a thing, you don't run a thing. And and so I think the idea of being chief technologist, IT will be big and interesting and hit like shop at conferences every once in a while. But like he is super meaningful that he is leaving the search team h .

which is the team, the most important team under the most pressure, right? But from regulators and open eye.

whatever yeah IT IT is the thing. And uh to that point actually the person who is taking over that job is nick fox, uh, who has been at google for like forever uh and a thing that i've heard internally over the years is that nick is one of a very small number of people who soon approached believes are like his fixers. He is the person who is tapped to like make a thing work, uh, he had to do with messaging, which i'm David.

I I would just say your evidence does not support, you know.

So yes, except, uh, R C S has worked. Google messages is now everywhere. Like, to the extent that mick fox had to solve an impossible problem, he actually did a pretty good job. Uh he ran assistant for a long time.

He he I think was one going to launched google fire um like hits and mrs, but he is a guy who has been tapped to do some of google's most important, most ambitious things at very time. Uh and so I think it's telling that he is showing up as the one. He is not like a grizzle search executive, right? Like there are lots of people inside of search tube and working inside of surge for a long time.

He is a guy coming from another part of the company to presumably change the way that search Operates, which I think is very interesting. Uh then the other big change is that the whole geri division is now going in the deep mind um deep mind and democratic who runs deep mind is just ruthlessly consolidate A I power inside google. Uh damages want a nobel prize which is both like kudos them for some of the protein stuff that they ve been doing really cool a but like peace by peace, every AI thing google has been doing has come under demise and deep mind.

And except for google assistant, which is going to platforms and devices.

which is, I think I sign that google assistant is dying, right? The google assistance is going to be how you turn blue to thorn and off and phone and everything else is going to reach like that's that's so clear what that's going to me.

So that's the rack australia group. That's the pixel group in the android group.

Oh, that's right. That is that group that's .

fascinating.

I I actually perfect cent, right. That means that becomes a feature of android, not an A I think.

or the homework b stuff.

Sure, it's it's a way to turn things on enough on your devices, which is fine if you actually don't need .

a but the future google assistance, the future germ and I aren't to the same thing.

No, which is what super annoying about using android right now. Because jam, I can do the things on your phone. Oh yeah, this is google, 干嘛呢？ I will give you a minute that the law, I get role under demons anyway.

So what I take from this is actually, no one knows how to organize companies, right? You anounced a new chief technologist at your company. What is the most important technology in the future of google? It's A, I, yeah. Is your new chief technologist going to now he's gonna run right into your C E O of A I, the guy. I just want to know how .

well this is the problem with A I, right? Like if you believe A I is is the future. I A I is everything is your infrastructure, its products.

It's the like in between stuff that enables all this stuff. It's it's everything. A I is the whole stack. And all these companies are putting someone in charge of A I, which is like not the same as making them the city of the company, but it's also not that different.

Well, certain. We are just compare and contrast to microsoft, which has now largely the same structure. Google has moved itself to the same kind of structures.

microsoft. So microsoft had Kevin Scott, who is a co, uh, famously still the person microsoft, he told me this undercover. Kevin Scott owns the GPU budget at microsoft.

If you wants to buy a GPU, you get ta call Kevin. How do you make yourself the most powerful person company? It's real.

So he was A C, T. O. He was one who did a bunch, the open, like, early work to do the open idea. He was like, figured that out.

But then microsoft, the OpenAIr D RAM h appened a nd m icrosoft w ent o ut a nd s ort o f l ike j ust a cquired t he t alent f rom i nfection a nd s ofa s illiman i s t he c ea I a t m icrosoft a nd t hey h ave A C T, O. And Kevin Scott still that is just a complicated or chart and IT looks exactly like this. Yep, hundred percent.

And so are just ending. These companies are starting to they're trying to figure out how to structure themselves to make all this work. And the the only difference to me is that google business is under such a regulatory threat that a bunch of people, I think i've kinds choosing to bail instead of taking the next turn yeah I mean.

and again, even if you think google might come out of all this regulatory stuff unscared, it's gonna so long and if i'm proof and like, do you want to sit in to to your thumbs the Better part of a decade until all this anti stuff get sorted out either? Do you just want to like dip and go work on other problems?

I can get IT. Yes, they did all the consolidation and red android in google fining emergency motions of the court in the epic e today to delay, open up and under other stores. Do you dad at least want to wander the earth, right?

Yeah, what's years?

weird? I actually have more google stuff, but it's also trumped stuff. And I apologized. Election season, trump s talking a lot, and people are matter us for covering themselves. But you know, there's A A meaningful chance he he could win.

And I would just point out, we, we, we live through the tech policy of a first trumpet administration, which was bananas. I've made to remember IT recently, which i'm very upset about to remember when I just counted days since trump nounce. Google will build a website for current testing like every week like that's all right. Again, only this time he hates the tech companies like je van is answer to the Donald trump lose the election is not yes or no it's a big tech interfere with the hunter biden laptop strate, which is not an answer.

but their protect talk now .

with the of the s so that's not an answer like you can be upset the people did or did not have information. That does not mean that their votes don't go right like I think a lot of people who voted for Hillary client are pretty add the new or times chose to make the word emails incredibly relevant to everyone such as the verge outcome sells A T shirt that just says emails on IT the doesn't mean their votes didn't count here.

And so that whole vance line of attack is non sensible. But what is point out is, where matter? Tech companies.

So trump is on stage. The economic club of chicago, even interviewed by john ico, rate the eternity for blog news. John microwave is a very proper british man. He used to be the eternity for the economist. He is not a, uh, uh, guff taking kindness de no jermin.

Yeah he's not he's not a chance .

against kind of guy yeah you I know a lot of this isn't the one that where is having a party in the world, it's just putting out but there are all the ones are i'm not going to say who they are, but if you are my list, you're my list.

You are so great so john nick way final truck um and he says the department of justice wants to break up to, what do you think and then trumper says, some stuff in all of this adds up to, I want to do some speech regulations no mean, I just gonna read IT to you. Trump says, yeah, look, google got a lot of power. They're very bad to me.

They are very bad to me. I can speak from that standpoint. They only have bad stories. In other words, I have twenty good stories and twenty bad stories. Everyone's entitled to that.

You only see the twenty bad stories I called the head of google the other day and I said, i'm getting a lot of good stories lately, but you don't find them in google. I think it's a whole rig deal. I think google's rig, just like our government's ragged all over the place. Confusing yeah so what I think what he's talking about is if there are twenty stories about good stuff from is one and twenty stories about bad stuff, trump is on and you search a Donald trump name in google news, you only get the negative .

stories presumable .

that I .

believe that is what he's and he called up.

presumably soon arcata in complaint about this. That is just core first, amen. inactive. Maybe he called provoker.

And prockter was like, i'm done at this time, never might.

I don't know. And that is that is just straightforward first amendment protective activity. Ah we're going to right some stories, you're going to type in a search sherm and we're going to show you list of them and maybe you think google should be more neutral, but if you want to do something about IT, you're going to you in this country will run straight into the first moment in these companies have one multiple cases asserting their first man, right? yes.

So then he hits this conversation, people to china and he says, I do something, but you have to give a lot of credit. They become such a power, such a power. You have to give them credit.

How do you become a power? Is really discussion, an interest argument and and then he says at the same time, it's a very dangerous thing because we want to have great companies. We don't want china to have these companies right now. China is afraid of google. He says, china is a very powerful, very smart group of people.

I'm really glad to read that part. I was going to make you really that part of you otherwise.

which is a great .

way to describe country .

ah what .

is a .

country so I don't know, man, like, is china afraid of google a company that doesn't Operate in china? Is he talking about A I, I, I true. I i'd like been trying to pass this for some time.

So then microlight says, with you afraid of china, you wanted to be in tiktok and that you're going to let tiktok Operate in this country and I do not trump t just kind of just pivoted this conversation because Michael fit said his tiktok a threat in trump goes I think IT is a threat. Frankly, I think everything is a threat. There's nothing that's not a threat.

We should put that on A T shirt. Uh but sometimes you fight through the threats like google. I'm not a fan of google. They treat me badly, but are going to destroy the company by doing that. If you do that or you destroy the company, what you can do without breaking IT up is make sure it's more fair.

Then he ends with in its only bad because of fake news, because the news is really fake, that the one thing we have to streight out if to straighten out the press, because we have a corrupt press, that all of that is speed regulations. Yeah, I want to make google more fair. That's a content moderation law. I want we're onna pass a lot insisting the groups are I don't do that and then we're going to straight out the press how write the log if you're mad at me for something as you right go head right. The law, right that straightens out the press involve the government in that process.

Just in the course of that, he drilled all the way down to, actually, the problem is not fix google, it's fix the people who are writing the stories about google or about me that get posted on google like IT. Just I don't know if you think too hard about IT, your brain sort of explodes. Uh, but these are things he said out loud.

and apparently he's call in sea. So then the other story is today he said tim cook called him so i'm just gonna do this court. He's on one of the many, many brow podcasts that he's been going on this pends on youtube like who's on youtube? It's mr.

B slogan poston al trump but he's just for a youtube Brown podcast call up. He's ready. Go ah so is on on today the P, B, D podcast. Please don't get mad at me if you're like some huge two parents pocket i've ever heard of IT before is telling you and looking at the fun nail here and i'm describing he is on describing, he's on this bus yesterday and he says two hours ago, three hours ago, he cook called me, he said, the european union has just found as fifteen billion dollars on top of that.

They got fine by the eupeptic on another two billion dollars, which is true in march that you find apple two billion after finding that apple is restricting music apps in some way and then they basically set up all needs to pay fourteen point four billion and unpaid taxes. Totally different things, totally different finds uh and then trump kers on say, cook said something was interesting. He said they're using that to run their enterprise, meaning europe is their enterprise and then he said, that's a lot him, but I have to get elected first, but I won't let them take advantage our companies. That won't be happening.

what?

okay. First of all, I love the idea that either tim cook or Donald trump thinks that IT costs fifteen only, not the year. Like very good, the most efficient government in world history.

Doubt great ah unclear how any U S politian uh can negotiate tax rates and other countries. That's just that's just a thing like if germany showed up on our door's step. Als like we've some ideas for your hat.

Like we wouldn't we wish, want to do? IT, I don't know. I need to go away.

Germany, american, five, get out here. So like, that's confusing. Maybe maybe there's something the president computing that case.

Uh, the weird thing is he just said that he said, you know, in the google case he said, I called the head of google and I said, it's not we andie nonsense okay, we ask you what they don't say anything, but that's trumps claim that he called and maybe he's line in this one he says just cook called him to complain about E. U. Regulations, which is a very interesting thing to for tim up to have done.

He put a time frame on. He said three hours ago he called me. So we know proxim when that's today as we're speaking.

And so we asked apple with this. Apple flatly doesn't respond. I will tell, we talk to apple a lot.

We send a lot of notes to a lot of companies. Hey, did this happen? Hey, we need a state.

Hey, is, here's a thing. Hey, I have a lot of thoughts like rife on camera. We talked this station that silence I don't know that need I I am not going to interpret IT.

I'm just saying IT is there's not I don't I feel like good toward magistrate judge and file a form triplicate to get up comment from a big tech company like this is the thing that we do all the way. So I just didn't respond. I I don't I don't interpret this one.

I don't know. It's very it's very A I mean, I think to some extent the idea that a lot of taxi years are uh somewhere between actively rooting for a trump presidency and hedging their bet in case he wins by, you know, sucking up to him in various ways that real happened the last few president IT seems pretty clearly it's happening now. Tim cook is not .

the like. Jump on stage .

at a rally.

Tim cook opened a fake factory. We've sure come to this factor doing IT for some time.

This is what I mean, right? So like, I wouldn't be at completely out of character for tim cook to have done that essentially as like a make the man feel good, right? Like IT that is the the overwhelming advice on how to get things out of Donald trump is is flatter him.

And so to call him and be like Donald WTF europe in my right is like, I can see why you would make that phone call if you if your tim cook I also can see uh, a series of ways in which the story is not true and why apple, uh, would decide that there is literally no upside to responding at all. So again, in the same place like I don't know what to make of all the way on the spectrum from none of this happened to this happened exactly the way that he describes. I don't know how to interpret any of .

the possible outcomes. It's anas. I do love the idea that some coke was like they run europe on my taxes and like first of all, no matter you because you haven't paid them.

they actually don't.

That's a problem to be clear. Ah so I don't think that something after on europe but know i've never run europe before. I've imagined IT is all children and IT was to um and I just like my budget was higher is that when I was working out in high school most content and I think it's going to take like one of two trail run you up um again, not an economist. I don't have any formal training at the time. I just think it's more than the forcing point for, uh, we'll see we asked all these sometimes respond this.

I will say the the the two comments run right into each other, right? If you're apple in your mad europe, your pride also mad at the united states department of justice for filing an anatoly case against and Donald trump s is here saying something has to be done about google which just lost its big na trust case in the united states department of justice the main result of which is that google and to stop paying apple of money to be the falt search rider on the iphone. So it's just kind of all the same problem. And trump is trump and he I think he likes tim cook in his mad a google search.

Yeah, too easy things to be right now if you if you're .

Donald me and more that man searching for the .

simplest one uh.

right what's on what's with in robic and A I because I think we should lend with a vision of the top what's going .

on of this one okay, so so dario amo, who is the the city of anthropic, uh, road, I think it's it's it's either thirteen thousand or fourteen thousand words. It's so many words. My man wrote like a short book basically making the case for A I uh and I think it's particularly interesting that he's doing this because a sam lman recently wrote his sort of ops about Y, A, I is going to make everything wonderful.

Uh, and anthropic. And a lot of wait has been kind of A A tunnel counter to open an eye. They've been much quieter about.

They're building. They've been much less utopian. They've been much more concerned with security. They've talked much more like realistic game about what they're doing. Um but as as kindly Robinson on our team pointed out ah they also need to raise a standing amount of money in order to do any of the stuff that they want to do and it's much hard to raise money on like a careful case for why this stuff might be interesting then IT is to just say out loud I am building god ky has just been running around the new being like this is why they're doing this and I think she's right.

Uh and so addario did here basically was right, a more reasoned, but still like wild ly outrageously optimistic vision for what A I can be anything. And I think a lot of IT is about the stuff that doesn't get talked about a lot when we talk about I I would ever actually really appreciate people should read this. It's this and Stephen wolf room thing about how ChatGPT works from like two years ago are two very instructive premiers, unlike what is going on in this space.

And I think everybody should read both of them. They are incredible long, but they're very good. Uh, and he just i'll just review the five things that he says that the category cited. It's biology and physical health, neuroscience and mental health, economic development in poverty, peace and governance, work in meeting first of all, that's everything.

all the things just europe, europe point for you too.

But he makes a bunch of interesting cases, and I think does a good job of explaining, like here is what it's gonna take to get to this, that we need A I that is sufficiently powerful and has lots of different, different paces, and you even poke holes in all of this because none of IT exists. Most of IT is going to be wildly difficult.

And he just says there's a line where he just says IT has all the interfaces available to a human working virtually as if that's just like a like a future you can ship tomorrow uh so I take this less as a real road map towards anything and more just like an actually really thoughtful idea about what A I could be in the absolute best case uh and in that way through its a really good ety talks a lot about what IT could mean for medicine and what I could mean for how we interact with each other and with technology. And we've talked a lot about like the relationships people are building with AI characters. He mentioned that kind of stuff.

There's a lot of stuff in here and you get to the end and you're like, hell yah A I lets go and then it's like, oh, there's there's other things. And also, none of this exists or probably will anytime soon, and that's where we land. And the thing i've seen most people say about this is like even if he's right about all of this, his tie lines are off by orders of magnetic de. And I think if you go into a thinking with that perspective, actually think this is a super funding.

yeah, it's only is right next to IT is the new york times warning perplexity to stop using its content and it's like, I know all this is built just like taking everything yeah like all of the electricity and all of the content, all of the money. And it's a you have, I guess you in return, you have to promise digital god.

I mean, what worth all of that taking? What this does promise is digital god. He doesn't in as many words and he's actually he's very careful to not say A G I, which is what has become the sydney for digital god.

I think he just cause IT powerful ai, uh, which doesn't sound less alarming. It's just different. Alarming I guess. But yeah, IT is IT. This is the size of the promise you have to make if you're one of these companies in order to do everything you need to do together. And like this is a new and reasoned assumed tion of that stance as i've seen yet like he might be wrong of about everything, but it's it's like if you wanted get inside the rational brain of the A I industry. Right now this is about as close .

as i've been and and they have to take .

everything great and IT takes fourteen thousand words to explain .

it's just like, and one last suit from sale man who bring this all .

to a hundred percent yeah you put this next to was IT mark and Jason who was like, you you can't force us to pay for this because then we won't be able to do IT you like, take those two statements s next to each other and IT. I was very hard .

to know what any of this is gna go and that Better way IT was marked, said that in filing to the united states copyright over IT.

we are good, right?

We are over. And I was a good one. I'm sorry that, you know, it's like very close election.

We have to talk about IT. We're gonna really have a much of election coverage coming soon um like policy coverage. So get ready. It's coming me weird because it's going to be right next to laptop reviews. But that's the maybe that's the thing that we make are going .

from two thousand and four week to election coverage.

So we mention David was one thousand congratulating eble IT turned out I I deserve the .

least credit of everyone who worked on IT uh put IT turned out awesome and everyone should go read every single of the stories and even if you don't read them. Just click on them because the design of everyone is different and they're all so sick. And you should just just look at them. Don't ever read them, just look at them. Not all.

Well, you should read them because the reporters did a great job writing them but IT is true that grammar engineer uh Christiani or uh creative structured and cap goner designer had the time of their lives making this go and it's very good. Uh so go click on all the links will put them there that's that's happening. And then thanks to panners for coming soon. We're going to have him .

back when until lets the time yeah.

I think I think we can say that. All right, that's IT.

That's just just and .

that's IT for the verge gas this week. Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a quality eight, six, six verge one one.

The verge cast is a production of the verge in box media podcast network. Our show is produced by liam James wheel poor and air go mess and that IT we'll see next week. Support for this episode de comes from A W S. A W S, generate A A, I gives you the tools to power your business forward with the security and speed of the world's most experienced cloud.

Hey.

it's only from the koto with light a top. We spend a lot of time talking about some of the most important people in taking business about what they're putting resources to and why they think it's so critical for the future. That's why we're doing this special series diving summer of the most unique ways companies are spending money today.

For instance, what does that mean to start buying and using A I at work? How much is that costing companies? What products are they buying? And most importantly, what are they doing with IT and of course, podcasts? Yes, the thing you're listening to right now, well, it's increasingly being produced directly by companies like venture capital firms, investment funds and a new crop of creators who one day want to be investors themselves.

And what is actually going on with this acquisition this year, especially A I space? Why are so many big players in tech deciding not to acquire and instead license tech can hire away cofounder? The answer, IT turns out, is a lot more complicated than that seems. You'll hear all that and more this month on decoder with the latex presented by strike. You can listen to decoder wherever you get your podcast.