Bonus Ep: Dyche Sacked, What Next For Everton?
26:53 Share

This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Upgrade your business with Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet. ShopPay boosts conversions up to 50%, meaning fewer carts going abandoned and more sales going cha-ching. So if you're into growing your business, get a commerce platform that's ready to sell wherever your customers are. Visit Shopify.com to upgrade your selling today.

Hello and welcome to a special bonus episode of The Rest Is Football with Alan Shearer, Micah Richards and me, Gary Lineker. It's a bonus episode because we've seen two big managerial sackings in the Premier League this week. So we've gathered the team together to get our reactions and thoughts on that news. We'll start really with, ultimately it was a surprise sacking, I think, of Sean Dyche yesterday because...

Perhaps the timing as much as anything, but it came, didn't it? Just a couple of hours before their FA Cup third round game against Peterborough, which they did manage to go on and win 2-0 regardless. But with these things, the timing of announcements and stuff, you sense that the decision was probably made a little while ago. Yeah, I think there was talk, wasn't there? As soon as the takeover had happened,

I think more often than not, when that happens, the new owners look for a new manager and a change of direction. And it was, I felt, or lots of people felt, that it was just a matter of timing, whether they were going to wait until the end of the season or whether they were going to do it now. I mean, to do it... I know football's crazy at times, but to sack someone, what, two or three hours before a game, he'd been in the morning, probably named his team to the players...

And then two hours before, three hours before kickoff, he finds himself sacked. It was a bizarre situation. I think it's a real gamble on Everton's part in the current situation that they're in. It's a massive gamble. And imagine being one of those players sitting when you pre-match. Apparently the news came through during their pre-match meal. I can't remember a case like that. I'm sure it has done over the years, but it was... They must have known though, guys, surely. I mean...

it gets announced a couple hours before but there must have been told in the morning surely it appears not I don't know if they're trying to keep that in house I think if you're going and all the set pieces and all that maybe he's picked the team or what not but

there's so many complications with these sort of things, isn't there? They probably had known a couple of days before and then the lawyers get involved and they talk about bonuses and they talk about we will only leave if we get an X amount and all that sort of thing. So maybe he knew or the team knew, but maybe just not exactly when. It's a gamble though, this, as you said, isn't it? Because...

I think we've said, all three of us, you know when we do our predictions, we all said that Everton will be okay, they'll stay up because, not in spite of, because of Sean Dyche. And his football is not necessarily been particularly pleasing on the eye. I think a lot of Everton fans have found it difficult. They've been a tough watch the last few weeks, hardly scoring any goals.

But the one thing I'll reiterate is that we all thought that, you know, even despite that lack of form, they managed to get draws against some of the big teams and you bringing in someone new,

And that might work. There might be a bounce. But if there doesn't, you might end up in a situation where you're slightly more likely to go down than perhaps you would have been under your previous manager. Yeah, I think say what you want about the football that they played. And it wasn't a great watch. And obviously they didn't score very many goals. But there's no doubt in my mind that the most important thing for Everton

this season is staying up and I think he would have guaranteed that. Now, I think it's a huge gamble and you're always judged by your results and how you play and all of those things and obviously they don't score that many goals but I think he deserves great credit for what he's done at a really, really difficult football club. I mean, it's been a mess, hasn't it, over the past so many years because of

docked points, not being able to spend, not being able to bring in who or what they want and had to go in a certain direction. And I think he sort of steadied that ship and almost guaranteed them Premier League football in the state that Everton were in. That was an achievement in itself. But as soon as the new owners came in, we all knew, we know how it works. We're not naive or daft enough to know. But...

Yeah, I do think it's a huge gamble for where they are now. And I think whoever they're going to bring in, and there has been mentions of Mourinho and David Moyes is a short favourite now.

But I would pretty much guarantee that whoever takes over will have to be given assurances that they're going to spend money in this month because, as I said, I think it's a huge gamble for them to do what they've done with Sean Dyche. Yeah, particularly, I think he deserves credit. Don't forget last season the points deduction that they had as well and he still managed to keep them up. So, yes, absolutely right. He deserves credit whether you like his performance

you know, whether he liked his style of football or not. But when he first came in, don't forget, they got a lot of crosses in and they were, you know, down the flanks and stuff, but they just seem to have gone into a real rear guard action in recent weeks, Michael. Yeah, but I think context has to be given as well. I think if you look at Everton and you say, who were their top three players or top, say top five. So you look at the goalkeeper, Pickford. Definitely. You look at Bramfley, centre-half, Tarkovsky's very consistent. Yeah.

Mikulenko's done well recently. You look a bit further forward and you're looking at McNeil and you're looking at Ndai. So I don't understand what people want. I think if Everton were to play on the front foot and try to play expansive football, I think it'd be a detriment to the team.

I understand and I agree with Everton fans in terms of they need, if they want to move forward. So the thing is going good for Everton. It was a takeover, wasn't it? Then it was a new stadium. And then it was, how can we invest within the team? And I feel it's a mistake letting Dyche go because I think he's,

the best equipped to keep them in the Premier League. Going forward, you go into a new stadium, you want a different style of play. You can get some players out who are on the wage bill and then you can go again and start again. I would understand if that happened at the end of the season, but I'm with Alan. I think it's a massive, massive gamble right now. And again,

I've been in the Premier League, gone down to the Championship. We had the likes of Agbong Lahore, whose appearance is in the Premier League. We had Jack Grealish. We had some, myself, we had seasoned vets, Julian Lescott, who had played in the Premier League. You go down to the Championship...

And it is, honestly, it's like a minefield down there. Anything can happen. We should have came up that season with the names in our squad. We was nowhere near it. It wasn't even in the playoffs. So...

My opinion is I understand the frustration from the fans. The football needs to be better, but it's a massive, massive gamble doing it right now. End of the season would have been my choice if you want to go in a different direction. Would David Moyes be your preferred choice, Alan? I mean, he's obviously an integral part of the history, that recent history of that football club. Friend of the pod, of course, we were...

We were talking to him, weren't we, during the Guinness Live event that we did. He was saying whether he'd be tempted back into management or not. And he said it'd have to be

have to be the right club somewhere where I've got a chance somewhere not necessarily in the in the relegation zone but I think the pull of Everton for David might be a bit too tempting for him to resist well we're not we're not giving away any secrets in terms of what he said because I think I'm aware of he did an interview for the BBC um after a match of the day that I did with him and um

He did say that he wants to get back into management, but he wants to have a really good chance. And he doesn't really want to go into a relegation battle. And he doesn't want to be firefighting all the time. So that's why I think if he were to take this job, then he would have to have guarantees of that. They're going to bring in a few in this window otherwise.

I'm not sure he would actually take it. I think it's been confirmed that he is in talks. So that's quite significant. They would have to guarantee him to bring players in this window. It's a difficult one, isn't it? I think it's going to pull at his heartstrings. I mean, you know the love he has for the club. He's still up to date with all the football. I think to the end of the season, it'd be a good choice. I think...

bringing it forward, the whole thing with Everton, they want a freshness, don't they? They want new stadium. They want a manager with new ideas. I think Moyes is a top manager. We've seen what he did at West Ham. We see the trophy he brought there after how many years. So to the end of the season, for sure, I think he'd be the right fit. Whether that's he thinks he's the right man just for that short period of time and would want longer remains to be seen. But yeah, I think for somebody to steady this ship...

who knows the players, know how the club already works. I think he'd be the perfect man. Do you think he'd take it without guarantees of players coming in this month? Well, again, it's that situation where you mentioned the takeover hours. How much do clubs really have to spend with the whole financial fair play and PSR? We don't actually know, do we? We're sort of scratching our heads. I've been watching the transfer window

And they've been talking about the same players for the last how many days, you know, because it must be frustrating for them. So we don't actually know. It's really quite difficult during the January window as well, isn't it? To get signings over the line. You get the odd ones, but it will be difficult. But they do need, they definitely need additions to that squad. What's that old adage? You should never go back. Yeah.

Although when David Moyes went back to West Ham, I would say it was a success, obviously winning that trophy. And well, if it is David Moyes, we wish him all the very best, obviously. Go on, Moyesy! A homecoming, a homecoming. We'll find out shortly. Let's take a break. And when we come back, let's talk about West Ham.

This is a paid advertisement from BetterHelp. January can be a tricky time of the year for a lot of people. With the new year comes plenty of new opportunities and that can be overwhelming for many. There's a lot of pressure to make improvements for the upcoming year and to be seen to be starting afresh. But life isn't about resolutions that fade by February. It's about making realistic, sustainable goals that can make real change.

If 2025 is a new chapter waiting to be written, then think of therapy as your editorial partner, helping you write new chapters and create the meaningful story you deserve to live. There are so many benefits to therapy, such as learning positive coping skills and how to set boundaries. And it's not just for those who've experienced major trauma. It really can help everybody.

Write your story with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash rest football. That's betterhelp.com slash rest football.

Hi, everyone. It's Katty here from the Rest Is Politics US. Anthony Scaramucci and I want to tell you about our new series that looks at one of the darkest days in modern American history, the Capitol riots of January the 6th. You know, four years have passed since Donald Trump supporters stormed the Capitol building and tried to overturn the 2020 election results. And Katty and I are going to explore the tensions and the

personalities at the heart of that storm. Yeah, we're going to look at the whole story, starting off with, of course, the 2020 election result itself, Joe Biden's victory, Donald Trump's attempts to undermine that result right up until January the 6th and those horrifying scenes that all of us watched on television back then. So don't miss it. Go and search The Rest Is Politics US wherever you get your podcasts to hear just how Donald Trump tried to defy

American Democracy. And we've included a clip from the series for you to listen to at the end of this episode.

Welcome back to The Rest Is Football with Micah Richards, Alan Shearer and me, Gary Lineker. We've discussed the situation at Everton, similar circumstances in its strangeness as well with the departure of Lopetegui. Pictures started circulating, didn't they, in the media of a meeting between Graham Potter and Tim Stideson, now who's, I suppose, described as the director of football at West Ham.

And, you know, lots of rumors then started circulating that Loboteki was going to lose his job. Then there were slight questions against the timing of that picture with Potter and Stuyton. But now that what's happened subsequently in the week, you sort of think, well, I think that was, it probably did take place, that meeting. Otherwise, it's an extraordinary coincidence that suddenly Graham Potter ends up with the job. Yeah.

Firstly, they've made a few mistakes, West Ham, haven't they, over the last few months? Yeah, I mean, I had West Ham a lot higher in the league because I thought they had a pretty decent summer with the money that they spent and the players that they brought in. And I was expecting a lot better from them this season. And it hasn't worked for them. It wasn't...

It wasn't ever a great fit. I don't think they were ever quite content with him. So again, it was one of those things. But I have to say, the way it sort of unfolded the day or two before Graham Potter was announced, I mean, goodness me, how not to do business in football. It wasn't a great look at all for it to be all over the newspapers or pictures of Graham Potter and the director of football.

But you know what? As a manager, you can't really complain because you know that's the world that football is. You know, that's what happens. You know, if...

you get bad results, then there is a chance that the chief executive or the director of football could actually be talking to someone behind your back in the hope that, well, I say not in the hope, if you get the next result is a bad one, you're out and someone's ready to come in. It's bloody brutal. Well, I told you I was talking to righty behind my back trying to get him back on the ball.

I tell you what, with Alan's managerial reign was so short, they didn't have time to talk to any other managers. It's such a brutal business, isn't it? It's horrible sometimes, but you know the rules when you go in as a manager. Again, West Ham weren't particularly much worse off than they were last season. Some of the performances...

let's say they've had mixed performances, but some real thumpings, but some decent results in there as well. It's not a long period of time for a manager to sort things out. Is it six months? Yeah, but the only thing is, Gaz, I will say to that is, what was West Ham's style of play under Lopetegui?

Because we were trying to figure it out. And remember, we did mid-season predictions. And I said, what are West Ham? I don't know. They've sort of got ballplayers, Pakatar and Kudos and Bowen, who are really good on the transition. And then you bring in Kilman to play out from the back, really good left-footed, want to play through the lines.

Then you've got Alvarez, come from Ajax, who's a really good player, but doesn't really fit. Sometimes he's playing midfield, sometimes he goes to the back. They've got Antonio up front, and yeah, obviously had the accident. Fulcrum gets injured, so it's very difficult. But were they a crossing team? Were they a team who wanted to play through the lines? Were they a counter-attacking team?

I couldn't figure out what they was trying to be. And sometimes it is some really good things within games. And sometimes defensively, they were all over the place. They had no real structure to what they was trying to do. At least now with Potter, you know what he wants to play. He wants to play through the lines. He can go between a four at the back and a three at the back. He can play with wingbacks.

wants to play at every moment he can bring through young players so at least we know there's a style of play with with Potter the only thing I would say on that that Micah is that I listened to one or two and read some interviews with players particularly when he was at Brighton they said he

one of his real strengths was that he could change things during the game three or maybe three times, play three different systems. But that sort of goes against what you're saying about he has a style of play or a certain manager. But you're talking about... No, but he could tweak. He could tweak. Just tweaking, yeah. He wants a style of play, but he's not afraid to change it if need be. I think that's what makes him so good. Ultimately the same footballing philosophy. Correct. Um,

And even before Brighton, that Swansea, they played really good football as well. Not a lot of people talk about Swansea. They talk about Ostersund and what he did. And it was at Leeds, Carnegie and all those sort of things. But Swansea, they played really good football. The only, I don't want to say problem. I think the thing that he needs to show us is quality.

Can he do it with a team that expects a lot? So Chelsea was very difficult. The expectation levels were massive. Brighton, we didn't know exactly...

how Brighton were going to approach it. Yes, we know they could bring in young talent and they sort of could play with a freedom. West Ham and the club demand a lot more. So that's going to be interesting to see how he deals with that side of things. It's amazing, isn't it? When all we talk about is style of play. I know, yeah. It's mad.

It is. It's crazy. It is crazy. What was Fergie's style of play when he was winning all these trophies? Wingers, 4-4-2, great players, crosses into the box. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Two strikers up there, Cole and York, amazing. And if Cole's not, we'll just get Van Nistelrooy. If Van Nistelrooy, we'll just get Solskjaer. Oh, but we've got Paul Scholes in the centre. They had great players as well, didn't they? Ultimately, it does come down to players. Obviously, a coach has got to know what he's doing.

but it comes down to players. And also don't forget, Brighton is an incredibly well-run football club. We all know that. And they get things right. And then the manager that comes in after him does as well, if not better. And then the manager that comes after that one does as well, if not better. So it's a very well-run football club. West Ham, not so sure. Not so sure at present. They've struggled a little bit. I think also from a Graham Potter point of view, you can be out of the game for too long.

You know, if you're out of the game for three, four, five years, then...

that can be an issue to you getting back in. So I know it's about timing. I know it's about picking the right football club. But I think from his point of view, he'd been out long enough. 647 days, Alan. Yeah, that's right. I think that it's a long time. And if much longer, you run the risk of not getting in at the level where you want to get in and probably taking a bigger gamble elsewhere than you'd want to. So I think from his point of view... Who's taken the biggest gamble? Everton?

Or West Ham. If Everton go with Moyes, and don't forget we were talking about the gamble that it was getting rid of Sean Dutch. Well, I think timing-wise and the precarious position that Everton are in, then I think Everton's taking the bigger gamble in terms of the timing. No doubt about it. I'd agree with that. Everton, I think to have some positive results

to have a structure and a defensive unit. Yes, I didn't score enough goals. I just think Everton at this moment

what they are and to bring in a new manager halfway through the season some managers can take six months before they can get the message across they don't have the time so I'd definitely say Everton took a bigger risk It's a brutal business being a manager isn't it? Totally isn't it? It really is I interviewed Harry Redknapp a couple of days ago and he

That podcast is also out today, which was terrific. It's a lot of fun. We basically talked the whole hour on football management. And I mean, he's always got so many good stories, but he's also really interesting as well. So,

I would hope that you listen to that. I think you'll really enjoy it. And let's see how West Ham and Everton do. They'll all be hoping for that short little bounce that some teams get and some teams don't. I think I read somewhere where the actual data actually suggests that

there's no such thing. Some start well, some don't. But overall, it's about 50%. So, it's probably a myth, but both teams will be hoping for that. Wolves had a little bounce as well, didn't they? Wolves had a little bounce. Leicester had a very little bounce. A game and a half. Can we just say though, obviously this bounce or a bounce within a team is dependent on what your fixtures are. Surely,

If you've got Man City away and they're flying high or an Arsenal or a Liverpool or a Chelsea or whoever it may be, then the chances of the bounce become significantly lower, no? Absolutely, Michael, which suggests that the whole thing is a myth. Although I think there is a certain subconscious...

thing about players really wanting to impress a new manager and they go out full gung-ho and then I don't know. I don't know whether that's the science of it is accurate. Unless the manager is horrid and everyone's just sick of him. You know, I understand that. There's a bounce within the place. I get it. But it all depends on the results you have.

It's a results business, always has been. It's a brutal game. Well, we wish Grandpa all the best and possibly David Moyes too. We'll have to see how that goes. But that's it for this sort of emergency episode of The Rest Is Football. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me. Goodbye from me. Have a great FA Cup weekend. Oh yeah. Woo! Woo!

As promised, here's a clip from the Rest Is Politics U.S. miniseries. Trump is naturally a conspiracy theorist fueler. He will fuel the fire of any conspiracy theory because he's always seen himself as an outsider and he wants to foment conspiracy.

the people from the outside to attack the people from the inside. So he's developing these ideas that he eventually uses in January on the 6th of January. And the ideas are there's misinformation out there. There's lies out there. Let's use these lies as fodder to attack the people on the inside. He's doing it with COVID. I think hydroxychloroquine works well.

You may remember this. I took hydroxychloroquine. Mr. President, you took hydroxychloroquine? Yeah. Yeah, I'm on it. I took it. And this is the beginnings. This is the kernels.

of what's about to come. And it all starts with COVID. And it leads up to this insurrection, or as the president says, a very peaceful group of tourists descending upon the Capitol building. If you want to hear the rest of the show, go and search The Rest Is Politics US, wherever you get your podcasts.