Don’t Argue or Fight With a Difficult Person – Do This Instead (#1 Narcissism Expert)
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Eight each friend male and welcome to the male Robin's podcast. This weekend, my husband and are going to go to this function where there's going to be a particular person and honestly, the person really hard to deal with, like it's always about them. I hate IT when things don't go their way.

And how do you know that? Because they either erruptive or they stir the pot, or their constantly like making trouble, or they are sulking in the corner like trying to draw the attention. then.

And here's the other thing about this person and their personality. They don't have any interest in anyone but themselves unless, of course, they need something from you and then of course, you're the first person that they're gona call. Now i've bet you've got someone or maybe many people like this in your life too.

They never ask you a single question about your life. It's like IT doesn't even occur to them and it's not like IT has to be about me all the time. But it's so clear when you're around this person that is always about them.

Is this ring in any balls for you? Maybe your brother, maybe IT sounds like i'm describing your boss or your dad or your mom. Maybe it's the person that your sister is now dating. I mean, you can't quite put your finger on IT, but something is off.

And you always know that any time that you're gonna have to spend the weekend with them or be in a meeting with them or have a family dinner with them, you are gona leave and you're going to feel drained. You're going to feel slightly annoyed by simply having had to be around them. So now that you have that person in mind, I got a question for you.

Do you know how to deal with them? I'm dead serious about this. Do you know how to protect yourself from this kind of personality where no matter what you do, IT is always about them? Well, that's what you and I are going to talk about today.

And we're not just gona talk about this particular personality style. You're going to get a playbook of tactic strategies dues, and we're definitely talking about the ones and they're going to be specific things you need to say the next time you're about to be with someone who's literally all about themselves. Looking for perfect gift for everyone on your list, egg, nike, barefaced dreams, kate spade, new york and more.

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Hey, it's your friend mall. And first, i'll thank you for being here with me today. I just love spending time with you.

It's always an honor to be together, and I also want to thank you for taking the time to listen to something that could really help you improve your life. And if your brand knew, I want to welcome you to the mall Robin's podcast family. I ml.

Robins. I'm on a mission to inspire, empower you with tools and expert resources that you need and deserve that are gonna you live a more meaningful life. And on that topic, holy cow, is our conversation today going to help? Because we are talking about something that can be a huge obstacle to live in your best life, and that is dealing with a person who has a very specific personality type.

And you before I describe the personality type, i'm going to just share with you, there are two people in my life who I have to deal with in a somewhat frequent basis that have just this weird combination in their personality, where on one hand, it's all about them and at the same time, even though they're like super into themselves in egotistic cal, they are crazy emotionally. image. And I just keep expecting as a change, one of these people that i'm referring to, if they're not the center of attention, it's just astonishing how they always figure out had created some kind of distraction and pull the attention to them.

It's like whether they're suddenly venting about something or they're acting like a victim or they're gossiping in the corner and creating allies or they're sulking because someone else is center stage and they're not the set of attention or through the kind of person that you just know any single second, even they're like quiet that they could fly off the handle and snap and they never never ask you single question you want. Know why? Because they're not interested in your life. And here's the funniest thing, you know, the two people are referring to, like if they listened to this episode, they literally would have no idea was talking about them. And i'm sure as I describe this, there is somebody coming to mind for you.

And as much as you keep wanting the dynamic and the person to be different, IT isn't IT doesn't matter what you do IT doesn't matter how many times you call IT doesn't matter how support of you are, how many hundreds or thousands of hours you've spent listening the drama in their life IT doesn't matter how many times you've made excuses for the way they always have a way of turning IT back on you, making IT your fault IT just never changes. Is this bringing anything you well, learning that there is a word to describe this type of person changed my life because, according to the experts, what i'm describing is a very rigid but very predictable personality style, and it's called nurses ism. And learning about nurses ism personality styles, what IT is, how to spot IT almost as if it's a framework.

IT has helped me immensely in my life because the single biggest takeaway that i've learned and that i've had to put to use in my own life, and then i'm definitely going to be putting to use this weekend, is that this person, this person that you're thinking about is never going to change. You need to change your approach. Now I want to say, right at front, we have done a number of episodes on the topic of narcisse.

In fact, almost popular expert of all time on youtube is back. She's the world's leading expert on nurses ism. But if you think you know everything about nurses ism, you're wrong because today's conversation is extremely, extremely different because we're not focused on them or focused on you what you need to know, what you need to do when you have this kind of personality in your life because maybe it's one of your kids, maybe it's one of your parents, and you're not wanting to cut them out, but you wish they would cut the crap.

And today you and I are going to talk about how to live with someone like this in your life because you cannot avoid this personality style. And our expert today, doctor romney, is gone to give you the dose and definitely going to give you the dots. And we're going to cover topics that you have never heard discuss before, like what do you do if you think one of your kids or any Young adult that you know may have a narcy stic I style? She's gona talk about the difference between a true narcissist personality and developmental phases.

The kids and Young adults go through that actually quite healthy. She's also gona talk about something you will have never heard spoken about before, which is, what do you do if you have kids with someone who has a narcissist personality style and her advice? And that situation is going to shock you.

Now, you know that I always recommend that you share these episodes with people that you love, but this one in particular is going to be ee opening. And IT could be a real lifesaver if there's someone that you know who's in a lot of pain or feel in a lot of friction because you're dealing with a nursery sc personality style at work in their marriage or their family. What doctor romney is going to do today, the tools, the tactics, the strategies, IT will change your life.

And so here's how this is gonna down. I've got specific questions, and doctor romney is here to answer them. Rapid fire.

Now, a little bit about doctor romney diversa. She's a renown psychologist, professor and best selling author. SHE is one of the absolute fan favorite experts here on the male robbin's podcast.

In fact, he is a single most popular expert. And today she's back. So let's jump in. Doctor romney. I've got so many extraordinary questions, and I want to start with one that just kind of sets the ground work. Can you just explain the difference between somebody that has a narcissist personality style and, say, someone who just doesn't inflated to go?

So when we talk about nurses ism and is something i've talk to you before, a carrot is not soup. A Carrier is an ingredient sue, and inflated ego is just a part of the larger spectrum of narcisso, which also includes things like variable empathy, entitlement, arrogance, grandiosity, the need for admiration and validation, envying other people, the need for control on, on, on, on.

A person with an inflated ego, am I willing to take the bet that they're arctic stic? Sure, but i'm not trying to move. All my chips didn't middle the table.

One of the things that you said in the first episode that we did with you was you made a distinction between somebody who's annoying and that someone with an inflated ego versus somebody who is nurse system who is harmful.

It's the harmful part. And I think that that's a key because I think by definition, for person really does have the whole conStellation of stuff. You need to have to be no cystic inflated d goes, definitely part of IT.

But there are people out there who have these big inflated egos, but there actually kind of these also can be very teddy bear ish. They sound, they almost sound like, I don't know, like sick people, like I am the best, I am the greatest coming. Give me ogg.

I I think you're so great to and they are actually very sweet and present. So it's a that's i'm saying you can assume do they tend to go together like it's a bet, right? Do I I see go am I willing to bet that this horse might be narcissistic?

You know, one thing I want to do to defend you is that, uh, this person had asked, uh, are we mistaking personality traits with the clinical diagnosis? You've been very vocal in your work about saying this is a personality style and that people on the internet are diagnosing other people with nurses is.

And the other thing to keep in mind is that the second that you click on a tiktok video or an instagram real that is about narcisso, you're going to see more of IT. What you're here to say is that this is a personality style and that IT is critical, that you recognize the signs of IT, because IT is a personality style that is my adaptive that hurts other people. And I learned that in the first episode we did with you that we will link to this one, is the best to leave my nurse, sister, husband, or stay for the sake of my children. My seven year old is terrified of my husband when he rages. I don't think it's best for me to remain, but i'm wondering if I should wait until they are older or grown to leave.

This is, this, is this right? Here is the question of all survivors who are in the situation like this. Rageful nurse is is likely not a good parent.

Child is scared of them. But then there is that big thing called family court. And the one thing the arctic stic person knows well is how to punish you. And once they figure out that messing with custody is going to destroy your soul, they're going all in.

And most judges in this country will award fifty percent to the other parent if they ask for IT, which is a lot of time spent away from the parent who is the healthier parent. And this is what people grapple with. Here's what so chAllenging. Now this is one of those cases.

We are not going to be able to give a good answer because you're at the crossroads where you either get divorce, deal with the custody set up, know that there's times your child is along with that parent that they are scared of OK or you stick IT out. Some parents get solace from knowing their presence so at they can run interference for that child. With this toxic parent, they might wait until the child, they feels like more able to sort of autonomous ly make needs known.

There is no right answer here. Some of this is onna come down to money, you know. Um are you going to be able to secure housing for you and your child and your children the way you want? Getting access to mental health for that child while before before you ever make a decision on the divorce is crucial because I can promise you this, once that marriage split and you don't make the proper stipulations in the parenting agreement that parents will stop therapy, I see this happen over and over again.

They insist on two party consent for things like midnight health services. And then then our systemic parent won't sign. It's back to school, back to, back to court. So get that child in the therapy while you only need the signature of one parent because you're both still marry.

Get your ducks in line, talk to a divorce attorney, pay whatever they charge for hour, go in there prepared tax, retry whatever you need, and ask them, what am I looking at? What are the laws of the stake is? Are different in every state? What am I looking at with custody? What am I looking at with money? Is I think what the problem means is that too many people don't go into this conversation prepared.

Marriage is a legal contract. Make no mistake, people read their rental car contracts more carefully than they understand exactly what the hell they're getting into and they marry someone. And so figure this out even if you're not going to get divorce for ten years, getting that clear feedback from a divorced attorney makes a huge difference in your decision making.

When I read a message like this, this is the first time somebody vocalizes that they're considering leaving. I know that they're on their way out and may take five years and may take eight years. They might even wait to that child's eighteen th birthday, which I cannot tell you how many people know, waited to midnight on their child's eighteenth th birthday, and then they started the process by that next day. Fourth, no custody.

I have to be honest with you. I really wish you were gonna say get out now no, because never I I I know i'm just being honest because I you want a clear cut, I know.

And there's not one. There's not the systems don't allow IT mail. Family court is one of the most abusive systems in this country.

There are people involved in court reform, the stuff they bring. To me, unthinking. This is not in the best interest of the child. If you get unlucky with the judge, your screwed one.

Also, I think all of us have some friends, family member that is watching a divorce payout a decade later constantly going back into court, because it's a way for somebody with an arcis stic personality is to continue punishing and being in control. Abuse is a formal thing, but if they .

keep going and going and going, but I will say this and something I tell many, many parents, a mistake they make. I think too many people are like, matter what? And the narcisa person grabbed onto that like, oh, that your weak point.

But if you, I have remember once coja woman and he wanted to play this whole mother lines thing I like slow IT down. And instead, when he was that they were having one of these many hearings that go through, SHE said, you know, I I SHE was dying inside at the agreement that was coming down the pie. And he said, okay, that's great. You know what? Actually, this alternate weekend, this is going to work great for me, because there are so many friends i've been wanting to connect with.

And I been, you been wanting to get back into some of this, you know, the hiking and climbing I was stinging in actually really use the weekend well, you know therefore all is like, um what yeah no no don't think you just gonna not wait wait and so when he when I got framed, as you know that's SHE was totally can't cool added you know SHE said totally fine, get IT. I'm actually this. This is great.

I'm good to know this because you never wanting to do this stuff and pursue this and mean, so are you using that time? Well, i'm sure the kids will love spending time with you. And by the time the whole thing was done, eighty, twenty instead of fifty, fifty, well.

you are just having ing one message. Strategy, strategy, strategy. Except and of what IT is, you're never changing.

This is only gonna get worse. You god, to accept IT. You've got to be strategic, right? I got rapid fire questions.

And for you listening, I know you're getting so much already, but I want to tell you to stay with us. I want to take a quick pause so you can hear a word from sponsors. Our sponsors allow to bring somebody amazing, like doctor romney, to at zero cost when we come back.

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Welcome back. Thanks for listening, the sponsors and being here for this remarkable conversation with doctor remi diversity, one of the world's leading experts on narcisso. Today, he is taking your questions from listeners around the world.

So dr, or money, this next question is one about leaving someone. How do you deal with a nurse? Sis, who won't accept your boundaries? My mom is a nurse system. Whenever I try to set up boundaries, SHE will act receptive or understanding IT first than an hour to later, SHE will change your mind, reject my boundary request. Unfortunately, the minute you disagree with her or upset her, SHE tries to quote, punish by cutting you out of her life.

right? So setting boundaries with the narcissist people as a kin to hugging a porcupine, it's really a bad idea, and it's a fools arent. right? I'm tired of people giving guidance to people like set boundaries.

but why aren't .

we supposed to know you and everybody? But this is a pointless endeavor, and all that does is create more friction in this kind of drama of this person's having with their mother, who is silent, treat meaning and being selling and all these other things. So this idea of setting boundaries with a narsisi person, I always say it's an inside job.

And where you there, if you say to there, I don't want you to talk about this, I don't want you to come this, you are basically inviting them to do that thing because they know they can mess with you, all right? So unless you want to spend the remaindered of your time on this planet getting into a power struggle, just said you cannot win. Then your Better bet is to set in internal boundary, which is, I now know that these topics are off limits.

I know that if I invite this person to this event, this is gonna happen. So i'm going to have to figure out an alternative. I know if I make a reservation with them for dinner are gonna shop twenty five minutes late. So I need to make a reservation at that place that sets us when we're not yet a complete party.

Some people say what you're enabling, the you're actually not because there's no setting abounding with them and you want to have the dinner and you may have to invite them, but at least you can start eating and when they come and say, how dare you start with us, we said, we said to come seven. You didn't come at seven. They needed us. We started eating. You said, batter.

I love that distinction because you're right when you say i'm going to set a boundary with somebody who's narcissist that implies that you going to tell him about IT versus s you're just saying just understand the situation for what IT is. Understand the person is not changing, recognize the patterns and set sort of this boundary with yourself. Like for me, the one that I have in my life with a particular person is it's a three night limit. Because by day for this person gets quickly.

so you will melt. You would never say to that person, we have a three night limit. no.

Oh my god, I would be this that what a lot of people say, like if a person is saying things that offend you, need to say that thing you're saying is offending me. Tiger's cage. Try that with the nis. Call me up.

Let me know how that yeah I like I also don't set the boundaries that are like I don't talk about politics with you because you're an absolutely irrational freak that then dominates the conversation. If anybody asks a question or tries to offer a different point of view, I set a boundaries of myself. I get up from the table.

I don't know. I know exactly what's about to happen. I have no hope of IT different.

I cept. I set the boundary. I don't engage in the stuff I removed .

by the boundary. Not what this this poor person, unfortunately, trying to do the impossible with the mother. And it'll be forever .

disappears inside, right? If you go, mom, let's not to talk about you. I want to cause you, we all know how that cause got IT internal boundaries only.

I said.

boundary are an inside game. I love that my child is a nurse st. teenager.

How can I help them? right? So let, first of all, let's always slow our role when we're using the word narcisse and teenager.

okay? By definition, adolescence is a phase of life where the child is going to something called separation and individuation. Adolescence are tough, right? They are mean to their parents and often quite lovely with their peers. And there's a reason for that.

The separation individuation process means that the peers are more of a meaningful social reference point, so they'll actually be lovely with their peers, listen to their problems, pick them up late at night, bring them soup when they're sick and scream at you who even there mention empty the dish. russia. And there's a there's a common sort of therapies talk is that an adolescent is often going to a face we call shading the nest, shading the next and they shit the nest.

And it's a lot easier for everyone to say, get out. And for the kid to live like this is growth. I don't want to be here.

So all that mean behavior is sometimes part in parcel shooting. The so we have to be able to figure out if it's that narrow. Ism is a story that can be told beautifully backwards, but it's very difficult to tell forwards and in real time with an adolescent, for example.

What I mean is is show me a thirty five year old narses, and I will show you someone who is horrible as a teenager. Show me someone who is horrible as a teenager. I don't know if they are going to be narcisa when there are thirty five.

Really, the frontal lobes are continuing to develop a lot of that kind of lack of social awareness, impulsivity, all that sit up here. That part does not fully cement and set until around twenty five, twenty six, twenty seven years old. Other lessons, really, if you want to look at the developmental, doesn't matter that they can drive and vote and and buy alcohol.

IT really is IT goes until about twenty five, twenty six. That's when adult hood starts. So i'd say to people of our cystic adolescence, White nuckles this a bit, have whatever limits you need in your household. Be realistic about them. Remember the content of sitting the nest and put a pin in IT for about eight years and then we visit.

So let's just kind of impact this a little bit because i'm sure there's a ton of you that are listening right now. They're like, wow, but what if I am seeing narco stic trades because one of the things that you have okay, well, let me just stop right there because you just said you probably are.

What you're saying is that the very natural, Normal and mentally healthy process of a teenager separating from their parents is for them to become more autistic, more demonstrative, more selfish. And two prior entitle entitled. However, if you are seeing that and you are concerned, and maybe you're concerned because you're in a family system or grandparents are nursie stic, we even act to his nursie stic.

So you do have some concern. Is there something that you can model that helps to keep somebody on a adaptive personality track versus spinning into more of a more adaptive? Are you basically saying there's really not much you can do but White knocked yourself?

If you want to be sure, yes, figure out how your kids are behaving with their peers because if they have healthy peer relationships that seem reciprocity, that seem mutual, if other adults are having good, expensive, you if you're a friend with a parent that the um of a kid that they hang out with the parents like your kids, great like then this is definitely the adolescent nonsense of shooting the last right because they're able to show up as solid people for other people. If, however, they're behaving horribly across the board, mistreating peers, having problems in school, then you are much more likely to be dealing with narcissus.

That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. And is there anything if you're seeing that, that you can do? Or is this already just a bad this way? It's a it's a tough .

one at that point.

I think that IT is not getting into a power struggle with them becomes crucial because if indeed you've got this difficult across the board, difficult with the teacher, is difficult with you, difficult with peers, kind of kid, difficult there, you know their part time job, whatever you getting into power struggle them, you're going to lose IT you you're not going to win because no one came in a power struggle, but someone who's narcissist and with an adolescent, that's going to be even more amped up because they don't feel a sense of power because they're still in your good Graces and all of that. So don't get into a power struggle, okay? Don't basically don't let the dishwashers be the hill you die on because it's really not worth IT, right? But it's because what where a where narcisse is an adolescence.

Other bad behaviors are also likely to hang out, including things like i'm substance use and so what you really do want to watch for is actually keep more of an ion is your kids safe? How is your mental health functioning in other areas? Um if you are able encouraged by their kids, probably going to say no, it's worth a shot, definitely figure out what IT is that does speak to them and cultivate their interest in that because if there's something that they like, maybe it's music, maybe it's a form of sport, maybe whatever IT is, show some interest in what they do because we can get so caught up in the power struggle of you're going to empty the dish, russia of the lasting you do verses, who is this kind of difficult kid of mine but we get so caught up in the difficult of IT all we don't, we don't pay you like.

What do they like? So you might see them playing a video game, right, instead of, I got these kids in their video games is, yeah, never empty the dish, russia, all you play the video games. Like, what's this game about? Like what talk to me about? I'm you serious now you probably get a lot of room, but you never know.

Well, I think IT gets in there. I think you pull IT you up and you just sit next to them and you just sit by them while they are playing the video game. And even just doing that shows the level of interest.

And so I love that advice. Now the next question that I have is I don't know, like it's it's a good question. Can a nurse ist actually be legitimately in love with somebody?

Oh, I can see doctor mony's wheels already spending. So are going to take a quick pause to hear word from our sponsor, and she's gona have that answer for you when we return stay with us. So we talk a lot about morning routines on the area of his forecasts because I are two staples that are a part of my evening routine, thanks to our sponsor, kose earth.

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I say mission accomplished, to shop the gross store that actually cares for your health, go to throw dosch mall for thirty percent off your first order. But a three sixty dollar gift that T H R I V E market cosmec through market a com smile. Welcome back. I'm melt Robins and i'm here with the amazing doctor romani diversity that we are taking your questions about nurses ism and what of our listers wants to know, is there any way for a narses is to find true love with a partner, I mean, like a personality types that a nurse sis could be with, where both people are happy?

So now we get into philosophy, right? What is low is there universal definition? And the problem is, no, there's no, I think, probably the most powerful thing people could do by their third day.

I wish you know how you go to the doctor. They make you sign the inform consent. Yes, I wish we had that for love.

Say, put your piece of paper and find someone. This my definition of love, because their definition of love is very transactional. It's IT and they're not aware of what their definition love.

The definition of love is basically, i'm going to swallow you up hole you are going to be. For me, it's a very romantic, passionate definition of love. What they're not good at is long term companion at love.

So this idea, true love, right with all the debt that imply the mutuality, the rest prosy the Better or worse the um be standing at someone side even when they get older or need care or need help or who are more starting to get more successful than you, all the things throw an arctic person off. I would see the sure answer to that question is probably not on the basis of what we consider healthy love to be. There is a much, much more shallow, shallow definition for them.

Love is very romantic, very passionate, very flash in the pan, very crush. That's what IT is. It's not the the deep, deep stuff. It's not given .

take is what it's different.

It's not only not given take, it's not good times and bad. It's it's and it's also very status conscious and appearance conscious. This is why you see again, when I when a person who has been to a thirty year marriage with kids then trades in for twenty seven year old partner and they're sixty.

you know, based on everything that you've taught us and that i've learned from your work, when I read between the lines of this question, which I probably shouldn't, is there anyway for a nurse is to find true love. I imagine somebody who is holding out hope that there could be a possibility or fear.

or fear that the narcissist will go on and find true love with someone new, because that's the big fear of people who are left. So the narcissist person here with someone, yeah cc person leaves. They find new supply, right? Medio k, and you're of course, going through real grief process.

So you're struggling with IT the big fears. Now they found their new person. Are they going to change for the new person? Are they going to be Better for the new person? Are they going to trying true love with the new person? That's how I read that question. And the answer, that's no.

I watched someone go to this a couple years ago, had a very up and down arcs stic relationship with someone, went on for years and then they break up and inside of a few months he meet some new so 没错， 没没 jh bing being alarm signs and they get engaged like two months， right? And the the person was still struggling. I was having trouble meeting people and you know, was just sort of a dark night of the soul.

And this person seems like they moved on. And I was a little soul to this person who was sort of left that this is not, and there's no depth, is all performative. For narcissi people, love is performative.

And this is where the social media has changed things, right? Because the performative love relationship is very much a staple of instagram. Look how happy we are.

Look how cute we are. We are van living. We are traveling.

We are so great in love, my lovely bear, lovey. Never in my life could there be a hero like you. You are my love hero.

And then these fools break up in three months. Nobody goes from love hero to broken up like this. Whole thing was a lie. So it's again, every therapy knows the more they gush about the relationship and social media, the more is a train rec. And so it's performative.

Doctor romney, how do I deal with a narcisse c adult son who uses our grandchildren as leverage for the silent treatment, blame and .

manipulation? So this is a very common dynamic. And i'm so glad someone asking about this. You have an arc adult, fully grown. Obviously, you got your relationship, has kids all of that right? The grandchildren become the greatest leverage of all, leverage on the planet.

And this is devastating for parents who, and on multiple levels, number one, because its nurses ism as a developmental state, many parents say, what did I do wrong? And I partly responsible for this. And it's particularly devastating if you did compared that child with arcis and you did, you're very best.

You might have ve even been that code parent to actually protected your kid, but couldn't get out of the relationship they were having to spend time with an arcis stic o parent whatever IT may be that you did what you could, but you could not out run this thing, right? So that can be even more devastating. So there is a sense of complicity that parents feel that you don't see in any other form of sort of narcisa relationship.

Number one, then they have kids and you love those grandchildren. And now your narcissist sun recognizes that they've basically got you over a bear is the ultimate tool of manipulation with ncc people. The, the, the, the struggle is, is that it's very easy.

Create the monster by giving into them right? They get, they get used to IT. And what we do is we have to ask ourselves from a radical acceptance standpoint.

In fact, something I talk about in the book is something called a person's true north, right? That your true north is how I always tell people, don't engage with the r is gna get, you know where simple answers, disengage, disengage, discourage, right? But the concept of your true north is the one time you will take the fight, right?

Whatever that might be, that might be in the work around you will do. You might be the argument you might have. You might be the tigers cage you're willing to go into because IT might be about.

You might be willing to take the fight for your kid or your grandkid. You might be willing to take the fight because somebody is saying something that so noxious to use it's racist. There is some form of bias for something like that.

In this particular case, this grandparent has to assess the true north of their grandchildren, because the fact is, odds are that is basically extortionate set up, right? To see the grandchildren, they have to do the dance dictated by the sun. And so the radical acceptance may very well be that there are times they may not always get to see these grandchildren.

And the grief that goes with that is figuring out the true north. Maybe the birthday party is your everything. So that might meet some negotiation. You're gonna give them on certain things with the sun if there are something you can do.

So you can be at the the true north of the birthday party or the graduation or having having them, what we know going on the vacation with them or not. So you have IT becomes a constant calibration to where do I want to see these kids? Where am I willing to relent because he's forever going to have you over a barrel.

So it's also, if this person, do they fully radically accept their son's behavior, they may still be trying to change their sons behavior. They may have hope for change. You gonna to eradicate that.

In many ways, the sun has been brought down to nothing more than the portal to those grandchildren. So instead of putting behavioral standards on the sun, who is our cycles stic? They have to figure out what the ritualistic dance they need to do is to go through the portal .

to see the grandkids got a and theoretical acceptance there is really just standing. This is what IT is. This is what IT is. And I can hate the dance I have to do. I can hate the kind of hops I have to jump through, but it's more important to me because I value you a relationship with these grandkids. And I understand this is the access point, right?

And I could very well be IT. We don't know this because they don't make a clear the question they may be talking to their son as if they think he's listening to them. Like person would a mistake a lot of people make with noctis c people as they they actually try to appeal to some sensitivity.

And they like, we love your children so much, we would do anything for them like week, blob 和 blob。 Save you the money in the baby about anything. Can you see how much we care about them? Data and that that we may trust from whatever the holidays the people are saying about the grandkids? They're not listening. They're not going to pay tension. All they see is that I have got the ultimate tool here to get what I need from these people.

If you have an adult arcis stic trial, if I can only you know what of issue sort of one morning, make sure your finances are in order and safe, because an adult narcisse c child IT is not unusual for them to pray on older parents, try to get the names on the note of a house, try to get power of attorney and way they're to abuse. Make sure that if you do have stuff to hand down, you work with a good attorney is hard to think of this way about your own child. But now if I could tell you some of the stories i've seen with the way adult narcisse c children have completely cloud through their parents money and really put their parents in a precarious, but i'm not saying that's the case of this one, but you've got to be careful of all these angles. And if this sun, for examples, are all trying to get into the family's money, in some ways it's almost becomes a paid to play wherever you're paying to do, you know, to play. You've got a .

aware of that. But I think if somebody is willing to use kind and kids as human capital to manipulate adults to get what you want, that seems a lot more egregious than manipulating you to get to your money.

You, i've seen this question a lot in the form of how do I deal with the fact that my adult child is now married to or engage to somebody whose archaistic stic and that new partner is turning them against us? And this feels like it's similar. But how do you council parents that recognize that this is actually what's happening? We had a great relationship with our adult child, now there in a relationship with somebody else.

IT feels like that person is turning our child against them. How do you councel somebody in that situation? Is is the same thing. It's different.

right? Because in the case of the artistic sun, the they are sort of a direct line to the sun, right? They've known the sun is whole life, you know who knows what historically has happened? They may, you know may very well be that they're like that we drop the ball when he was little and now where we've been trying to make a mense ever since and now that he's got kids and we want access to the kids, we're actually in some ways it's like it's the spoil child phenomenon.

They're doing anything. The sun wants that their own kid. Now if you have a kid that's yours and you have a great relationship with them into adult od, your kid is not narcissist, right? But they meet someone that's a very different situation because, you know, your kid has the APP aratus, the solid apparatus of goodness, whatever that you know at least to be a have a mutual and recipe al relationship with you.

So the the big mistake people will say IT, especially when you your trial is in love with someone and is about to get married and this in sort of the bliss's state that you say, I worry that they're our cystic is the biggest mistake you could make. You never want to do that. You want to try to illuminate the patterns without saying, like what he said was talk about that was an OK, but rather dropping in the lines in the water like things like, hey, you OK lir, we're not hearing from you as much as everything.

Okay, now you might hear them say, like cash, what's wrong with you? Like, I have my own life now so you know, I hear that. Like, I just I completely understand that you you want to keep feeling IT out, feeling IT out.

There's actually we can take a payout of the playbook of what happens to people when family members recognize a family was in a cult. Doctor yoni al knowledge SHE SHE talks about doing something called breaking the shelf. What he means is that when you have a family member who goes into a cult, you can say you, you're in a cult because they are gonna.

No, i'm not. This is my group of healing friends that want to self developed together, right? And they're going to say, they told me you would say this. I knew IT to help with you. And the cult gna want them to cut that here and not right rug.

So what he says is you you need to do, you want to break the shelf and what that means is mind them of the life they had before the cult. So it's gentle conversations like, oh my god, you're not gna believe. I remember how you love to surf you know, I was is so weird.

I was just driving down, you know, the old street, that street, you know, he he made the the surfboard shop so much bigger like how how you doing? Like how is surfing going? You're planting.

Like you you're not surfing anymore, are you or we're get ready for rid of the ski trip? What you just reminding? Like I remember how much you wanted to write.

Like how's that going? I have you been writing more whatever writing, but you're trying to bring them back to themselves. And sometimes so we know you're not even talking about the partner.

You're talking about the them who is likely getting lost in this relationship. You might have a Better chance of doing a doctor knowledge, got breaking the shelf and be letting them then be able to start to see like a okay, sometimes is changing. It's not always a sure thing. But ideally you can then say in, especially if you notice a difficult interaction, instead of saying that wasn't okay, you might wants to say, here you, okay. I just saw that I wanted to check in.

That's great because then you get the wheels turning.

So are you want to .

do turn the wheels? S got IT. Okay, this is a really juicy question. Okay, even though it's really like not okay, it's sad. Um doctor romney, my dad is a perverted narrow ist.

I don't know what that means, but is a perverted nurses ist and has psychopathic traits. He has met a woman he is very interested in. This woman is in a higher tax bracket than him and has never married. And he has her wrapped around his finger. He's presented a version of himself to her that is not real, and he's using the same methods he used on my mom. I feel like I can't let her get sucked into his lies, but is IT my position to do so? IT urged me so badly to see the maskey presents, and IT upsets me that I took her less than a month to fall for his performance.

This person called the father a psychopath. yes. okay. So let's let's use this question as a jumping off point on the difference between and psychotic.

I don't know if this person is father psychopathic, going to good faith. They believe they are the difference. okay? Even the most malignant narthex is not going to be psychopathic when we jump ed the rails into psychopathy.

We're talking about someone who is cold Alice, calculating, deceitful, lacks any empathy, lacks remorse, is often superficially charming, can be very intelligent, has an incredible capacity for running a hostel. These are, these are your grifters. okay?

These are people who are able to create very, very elaborate, ate lize, live, double, live, live lifestyles. Go and destroy one person's life, move some place cells and leave no sort of no trace of any of that, right? Drawing something into a new relationship very quickly with that persons falling under their control is very classically something that a psychopath is able to do.

Because psychopathic people lack remorse. They can do far more harm to another person. In addition, psychopathic people don't have the insecurity in the anxiety we classically see in narcisse.

Narcisse is still a sort of a little bit more of a chaotic interior. Psychopathic people are just cold and calls. And so that seems to be what might be the case here.

Now the the way he is describing is that this person was able to trick another person within a month. That's very classically, you know, either he has more psychopathic than IT is more like narco stic. And the questions do you want? And many psychophysics people can be dangerous smell.

So I want to make sure this person is safe. Like, I mean, listen, I don't know if you never remembered the story. That really popular podcast from way back, dirty, right? The dirty john was a guy who the same kind of grip and IT accommodate quite tragically he almost killed the the woman he had you know twisted around. He almost killed her daughter OK. That's why I am saying that these people are dangerous and um because if anyone gets in the way of their grip of their hostel, they will eradicate ate them so assuming .

this woman is safe.

I don't think the new woman's going to believe a month is very, very fresh IT is this person is fully indoctrinated being heavily love bomb, right? They're not going to believe this. And the the psychopaths really gotten to the new partner and told the new partner, my daughter is jealous.

I think she's kind of weirdly in love with me. He is crafted a whole story about the daughter. So that makes the daughter look insane, alright? So when the daughter goes to new partner and says, the odds are that the psychopathic c father has already done .

this homework. This is a hard thing though, because if you value the truth, and if I take to heart everything that you taught us in the previous two episodes that we've done with you recently about the fact that part of the the biggest barriers to your own healing from somebody like this is a sense of hope, that it's onna change and the feeling of injustice. And to me, I would really wrestle with the fact that based on my values, yes, i'd want to be like fog, like he's like he's the other hand.

he he can go up to and say, I want you to know this. I don't know what he's told you ideally shop with documentation. This is who he really is. This is who he's really about. Then she's done her god's work of the day yeah and when this new person doesn't believe IT, then that's no longer her problem.

Got IT. And as long as you can do that safely, safely and that is something that you feel like doing, whether it's because you feel the need to get just as served on behalf of you and your mom or not.

is irrelevant. You might just onest ly want to protect the person.

Okay, cash. Wow, this is a sad topic.

This is a very sad topic.

How do you keep from getting like beat down by this?

It's not always easy. Like I do actually get sad quite a bit and I keep to myself and I guess in sometimes I live a very simple life. And I think there's a reason for that because I think otherwise it's a lot.

I don't trust people as much. I mean, kind, so sad. That is sad.

but i'm glad that you're putting IT to use to help us.

That is my pleasure. I find your work is so i've seen people help and that is really that that really matters.

I've got rapid fire questions. My ageing mother is an arca sist, and i'm the one who has to take care of her. How can I make this time bearable?

You have to keep orienting IT to the who you are. Many, many people will say, I cannot believe now it's all coming to close and it's falling on my shoulders. But people have to sometimes to say, like, no, i'm a compassion, a person.

This is an older person. I don't know what would happen to them otherwise really put yourself into that role of, I am showing up almost like a nurse of an abusive patient. The prepare, they're going to yell, they are going to scream, do not expect gratitude.

It's going to be a nightmare. Have therapy, have supports, make sure you have meaningful pursuits outside of this caregiving. But you almost have to go into automated state, but also connected to the human being.

I am is compassionate, good and empathy. And this is an older person who needs to be cared for. I can stand, but i'll be damped if I let this woman leave me like i'm not a compassionate person.

Oh.

do IT for yourself. Do IT for so 啊。

My father is a arca sst have not talked him in five years. I would like to reopen the door, but i'm terrified i'm going to get get hurt. How do I protect myself?

what? He's going to hurt you? So what you have to ask yourself, what's your agenda after five years? What are you looking for if you think that in five years, because what's happened to this person in five years, mell.

they've healed or maybe not.

there's two levels there is the the deeper soul healing that may have happened, right? But I want you to think of IT as somebody y's had a massive surgery that was going to be difficult to hear from. And when there in the midst of the quality of IT, like I am never going build a walk again and then five years and like i'm going i'm going up the stairs, right? And so now she's running up the stairs. But what might still be happening is that internally, there's still not when you're running up the stairs again before a Green, we forget what is like. This is why this ic list becomes a living document.

Remind everybody of the ic list.

The ic list is a list you make of all the terrible things that are being said and done in that relationship. Everything from ruined my wedding to, you know, to lie to me about who my parent was to when I ask for a one that would have made a difference, didn't give IT to me and i'm still paying off the extortion alone. I got to insulted my children's weight like, right? I'll cheated on me with my best friend.

What's on your less write IT down when you thinks possibility of changes are you need to look at that and say what I would even in your act with this person. But in this case, after five years, some people may say, I know, I know this person's limitations, so you have ask yourself, if this person comes at me again, will I be able to withstand this? Or will this take a toll on me? That's a question only they can answer. Some work I tend to do in therapy, clients played out as a role play.

Doctor romney, compassionate. I'm like, don't be a dumb mother fucker. This guy has not changed at all and you're walking into the tigers caged.

Please, please say caution, caution, caution. At least read doctor remy's best selling book. It's not you listen podcast, watch youtube channel, your advice is transformative and the messages clear.

They are not changing, but you can. We love you. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Well.

you know, I kind of ended on a joke, but your message is actually really empowering because when you understand what you're dealing with, you can take the steps to protect yourself and still act aligned with your values. But you have to accept what you're dealing with and give up hope that is changing and walk into IT with that understanding.

And one more thing, before I leave, I want to make sure that you hear from me in case nobody else tells you, because if you're surrounded by nurses, is nobody has that I believe in you. I know doctor romani believes in you too, and I love you. And I believe in your ability to take everything you're learning and use IT to empower yourself to create about life.

And talked to few days. Let's do this. I like just get my hero p exit.

Flop down. All right, I start. Okay, right, doctor got. I .

felt I lifted.

You do where everybody away, and it's no idea. You take.

what?

What am I doing? Oh, oh, my god. OK ready? okay.

Got you. okay. Thank you. Thank I stopping.

Oh, and one more thing I know, this is not a bleepers. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers, right? And what I need to read you.

This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am not a license therapies, and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional.

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