#2222 - John Fetterman
02:15:30 Share

The joe rogan experience.

The man like, I got to say.

my son is just so throw this is like, he's fifteen and he literally like, oh god at all and all of his friends are gone to definitely something to.

yeah, what's his name?

Coral with A K and I I I made a coral in the lobby but um it's a sea but that's .

not a human and non human carl. Yeah well, what's up human curl? Um so first one, you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits when you're .

a senator ah yeah no it's it's, it's I am sorry.

was that I said, are you the only guy that figured out that you don't have to wear suits as a senator?

Okay yeah no, I well, I know why IT seems strange, but it's like, I mean, i'm A i'm a bigger guy and I don't really can't afford custom anyway and I hate i'm cluster phobic and I hate them being in that kind of shit and i've always dressed like like shit and and and I know and then that whole thing kind of got away of us. People assume that there was a address code issue there. Yeah and i'm like, no, I wasn't behind that, behind that.

But of course, everybody pointed at at the do that dresses like a slob then the whole the whole nation just had like a meltdown. And like go we go to send its on fire because I dress like a slob. But but my life is just much Better in dc that unless that i'm going to be on the floor that i'm not going to be, you're never going to see me in a suit.

And I think that's a more authentic kind way that I live. And I don't judge anybody on how they addressed are those things I just dressed this way. And there's also practical issues as well too. Like I have I have chopstick legs and I have no as and I can't keep pants. And hoods and hoodies is I don't have to iron that shit, you know so it's just like easy. It's comfort and it's like I just feel like that I mean and if somebody judge me and people have said that um but it's so i'd rather have somebody know and I I promise you a lot of people in dudes, especially in western pensylvania, love to wear suits all year. I mean me sure its all a year and dressed like that, but to me it's about comfort and practical.

Well, I mean that makes sense. The whole dress code thing wearing suits in your you're more serious because you have certain clothing on IT seems pretty silly.

And what are you?

So let's let's tell everybody what's going on with your ipad. So because you had a stroke, you have difficulty, you have difficulty hearing or well.

no, I can hear just I can hear here just perfectly right right now uh and um but there's just the one kind of a lingering issue. There's a lingering issue and sometimes I lose just A A couple steps on time and then now after that, that's the only thing. And thankfully, the stroke never touched my intellect.

Thanks, but but the stroke nearly killed me. And again, I don't. But I use captioning in situations just like this in interviews that so that's why I can I can really make sure exactly what's being said.

Then I can able to participate. If somebody wears a glasses, IT doesn't mean that they're literate. IT just means they just that's a tool that allow to participate or drive or those things. And it's the same thing. And a lot of people across amErica use captioning to watch movies and TV, and that's really no different than that.

So IT doesn't affect your intellect, but IT does affect your hearing. Is that what's going on?

No, I can hear and I can listen to music. The difference with music, for example, is that as long as there's muscle memory, I can, I can remember all those kinds of music things, but IT seems unlikely at this point, that is, they're not going to be any kind of new, new favorite emerging like that.

Essentially only can listen to the same old music forever.

Yeah, no, it's yeah, it's yeah I mean, all of the all the classics like, you know, meta, motorhead, motorist, the cult, all those kinds of things like, I haven't lost any of def def lip in those things one, I saw the the record of White or summer White snake but all these things, yeah, I know. I mean, I mean, think we're both in the fifties, right? And we grew up with with with the crew and and all these kinds of things. So some people might judge me based on my my taste on music, but I mean that this kind of work.

listen, people are going to judge you no matter what you're a big giant guy wears hoodies in your senator like so like no matter what they're ta judge you who cares but i've just trying to like, understand like what what is going on with the captioning because you you can hear. But so there's some sort of a disconnect between hearing and understanding, like what is IT?

I wouldn't say it's necessarily disconnected. It's it's it's just about being precise just to make sure that so you know for like for an interview, just to make make sure those things. So it's really just about captioning really is just a tool. No difference. I mean, for this, this is like my my eyes in the sense for glasses that right?

understand. So IT just gives you a little bit more precision in what you're saying and understanding what was IT like running for senator right after recovering from a stroke that had to be a nightmare.

Yeah, I don't recommend that. I don't recommend that .

because you seem to have recovered quite a bit since then.

Oh, no.

During that time, you are really .

struggling. sure. I absolutely like IT was a IT was IT was a rough uh, conversation after that um they brought me into the hospital and then I went under and then I I woke up uh and they said they they said, hey and we got IT we got IT we got at the clock they have the clock that that essentially just been killed me and i'm like all that's good and then just kind of went back under. And at that point, I had no idea where we were at on those things and then I had um the next morning I woke up and then they a doctor came on and he had kind of A A grim kind of a look on his face and thanks and my dad was there sitting next to me at the bed and I like, hey, duck, when what's what things what do you think what do you like and he's like, well, you know your your heart is functioning at an incredibly low kinds of percentage and and i'm like, well, well what do you what do you think and he was like, well, uh you know I mean, there's some some other issues um and my pope, are we talking you know a year a year kind of thing and and like uh and i'm like and this is all while .

you are running for senate yeah yeah this .

was this was after this was after this was after this was a three days before the primary oh my god yeah I was on I was on my way to an event and and my wife jail she's like you're having a stroke because they had that classic kinds of where half of my face I didn't know that but I kind of just song yeah and and and they hot lined me over to the hospital and I wouldn't I wouldn't survive if we were in a different I mean, there's parts of pencil, ian.

That's that's part of the tragic that if I wasn't close to the the kinds of hospital that I was, it's one hundred percent that I wouldn't have survived that and I got me there in enough time and they were able to there was an expert there and and I I actually had, I met that doctor that that literally saved my life. And oh my god, and he usually wasn't based in the hospital. He was usually out of deliver, but he happened to be there and that and he was here to to give me an an award for being that kind of an advocate for those things.

And like the you you deserve you deserve the award on that and and was incredibly lucky yeah and and then and then I asked really looking for like a countdown of like, well, what's the bad nosis and and I really there was so much there on that and I had like, was I going to survive for long? Or you know what's that gonna? And then of course, the entire majority of the senate really was on the middle of that, and that's a big responsibility after that.

And then so the primary IT happened and and I actually had a really strong win, and I won all of sixty seven counties, pennsylania, sixty seven counties, and we Carried every county pitch burg and all across pensylvania. But at that point, I had a responsibility. It's like, am I able to recover or we're a kind of where i'm gonna be OK and I wouldn't recommend being in that in that situation.

But I made a commitment more than anything. I was more worried about being being around to be a dead. I mean, I have three, I, three Young kids and my my wife.

No, he lived through all of this so at at that point um uh IT started I was in the hospital for about ten days and yeah and I started to get Better and Better that the strength started to come back a little bit. But I was still rough. And I was very, very clear though that I had a capacity to it's been impaired on on hearing and those kinds of interaction and those things. Uh, so but that's a thing. But but I had to decide by August fifteen th, and that's actually that's my birthday onic's, that if I stepped down by then or before and they're gone to have to find somebody to replace me on the primary and that was going to be my drop, my drop out day on that.

So what was the Operation? How did they do IT? How do they remove the.

uh, well, it's I mean, I had to originally head to go back to, I have to learn how to talk and speak. I went to a speech therapy and have interaction in those kinds of things. And my hearing and those kinds of things were still impacted by that.

And they had to monitor my heart because I was IT effectively stopped. I found out after the fact that IT actually stopped, and then that my heart head to recover. So there were two kinds of things working there, my heart.

And then right before the primary, they walked in and they said, well, here, here's what I suggest. Here's what I suggest. Now we are going to put a pacemaker. We're going to put in a pacemaker and and we're like, k, that's that's the best thing. So they put that device right here. And for anyone you're not really with, that is a pacemaker but that that that manages your heart no cause I had a significant issue with a fib and and that's really what what did that to my heart and they put that in and then that was that was um that was right before the primary and .

they put me under .

and what year was this? This was twenty two.

twenty, twenty two. And before you had this stroke, had you ever had any issues before with cloudy or anything?

Not with cloudy, not with the my I have for good, for good things and for for that thinks my heart was just like my father. You know, then he had an issue with a fib, and he was in the hospital. So a genetic, a genetic.

And but I didn't IT was never an idea. There was never an idea that I was going to even having a stroke that wasn't part of the at least my thinking. I knew that I was in distress. Now I could tell that my heart was was was in problem and I was just going to get through this primary. I mean, there's a lot running then and then that's that IT didn't work out because the strong kit three days before and and then that forced me and that put me on an incredibly different kind of a of a path after that.

And so where do they go in when they were removing the great? Do they have to cut your skull open? Like, how do they get .

IT out of there? They went up, they went up in your vein, in your leg, and they went about, it's a remarkable technology that through your leg, yeah, and they just sucked IT out. And they they actually had an x, an x or whatever in, you could say, hey, we got IT out and I actually got to see, although I really was still kind of out of IT, but that was the clock that that all bit took, took my life. and. So I mean, there are a lot things that you know suddenly that your mortality was kind of like put right there in front of IT you and through that.

do they have any idea what cause the club did they understand? Like what happened to you I always my grandmother had an aneurysm and I was horrible situation. They didn't find her um for several hours uh afterwards my grandfather came home and he was in the house and then founded the backyard.

Sh'd collapsed and they gave her seventy two hours to live and he lived for twelve years like that. And he was horrible. My grandfather had to take care of IT was IT was really, really rough. So i'm always like really concerned with that kind of stuff like I don't like what causes IT do they know?

Yeah, yeah well, it's I mean, I had for the first time in my life and I hope it's the last time that i'm confronted by this idea that the the doctors weren't able to provide IT any kinds of certainty or as they go yeah and you're going to be OK or things you're going to be here. Okay that that wasn't um .

so they don't know what caused IT .

that well I mean IT was a fib and and and my heart weekend and the stress of the of the primary and on the ongoing kinds of issues, IT was already weakened about that issue earlier and everything kind of came together and I guess my heart deteriorated to the point where that that caused the clock and then the close that's what .

nearly took took my life who so then you have to go to work. So now you are an elected senator and you have to go to work in the middle of recovery.

Yeah yeah uh it's um I I I think um. I mean, it's so diff. It's I had a significant responsibility to to stay in that in winning through all these things. And that that was that was difficult enough. IT was an important conversation and we had to run a campaign. We had to run a campaign when I was I was difficult and I wasn't working at the kind of capacity that was necessary and that we had to run up to the the fifteen th of August this site. We're going to stay in that because there's a lot writing .

and you were also competing against doctor oz, which was weird. You know, this guy who's a celebrity doctor .

who's .

at least a little .

shading. And it's necessarily was the the and I think we were talking about captioning early right now, and I think we're having an issue with some of the the caption right now here is IT not showing up? Yeah, I think there's a there's a little bit of a delay.

Well, maybe it's the way I said shady. Yeah, he's a little shady. Like he had been trouble for talking about miracle diet remedies that weren't miracles at all and I believe brought front of congress. So IT was a little odd that that guy was running for senate at all. Was he from pensylvania?

yeah. Well, a doctor, doctor eyes. yeah. I think I think from the technology, I think we have to address the .

the mess up right now.

Yeah, I think they're captioning the captain is running a little bit behind on OK.

So can we make some technological up and have sure yeah okay, we'll ever come fix IT what pause here lays and gentlemen will be right back?

Yeah I think I think that I think we are good to go. We put this on the wifi. So and it's working great.

We're back. So what I was just saying that he was od, that you were running against doctor oz and he is kind doctor.

Yes, I mean a dyes and he's he used to be people used to thought he was like, really brilliant. I mean, he he was like, he was like an amazing kind of surgeon celebrity. And then he turned his career into, like on TV.

And then he started to pitch more kinds of kinds of things, and kind of bullet, kind of still, yeah. And I don't understand why somebody would would change his reputation and mean, he was really reveal in that. And I was, I would not even be, I would have been comfortable to him Operate on me.

But but he kind of lost that. And what was also pretty funny is that he clearly, he lived in new jersey. And so we are like, k we we need to use that and point out that.

So we we decided early on that we are gonna just like, hey, IT matters. It's like, I mean, there's nothing wrong with living on new jersey, but probably is an issue if you running for for the senate. So and I really have like an ethos that i'm not ever gonna mean and i'm not going to be personal about that.

So we tried to have a lot of fun with the fact that he lives in new jersey, and we just really just kept hitting him, hitting him in that we had snooky did like a camo saying, g memory, good luck. Now I know it's things are go and rough now, but you're going to be able to come back into jersey and and that guy viral, and we did a lot of those viral kinds of of moments. And then they have this thing where they have what's really penetrated and they have circles on things like what what's really part of, I like people asking about doctor us. And one of those zeroes, the OS, was he's weird, but the biggest one, new jersey, I mean.

literally new jersey was was the biggest one yeah, like this pencil in new jersey, even though their neighbors, they do have a bit .

of a rivalry yeah, of course. And you people have to understand that it's like, it's like that funny thing. And I an IT borders with with pennsylvania and and that that IT really matters.

IT matters is that. And of course, a doctor is was, he was strange in some sense. And we always try to have fun with making fun of him.

Are you a fan? You fan of the sympson? Yeah, yeah. But we we matched up perfectly with doctor nick, doctor nick, doctor us. And we found, although the weird shit that doctor nick would say, and then they have a clip of doctor us saying those kinds of thing and and that that's where I was and we had a lot of fun with that and thinks we we all figured out well um we have we essentially we chose the kind of empty the clip metaphorically and really start hitting him.

We went up on TV throughout the summer and he was really put on his back and he was essentially thinking, going to take take the the summer off and then our polling, we got up about ten eleven points and and things, you know, if anyone's listening ever heard of the five, thirty eight, they track on those those races. And the highest percent that we had to win was, I think, about eighty four percent. And things kept on great, really, really great.

And then I had to decide on my birthday on August fifteen th, and things were going so well and I thought things I make okay. Then we decided to stay on that race and and that's what we did. Uh and then you know post labor day when and oh my gosh, we just got we got nuked in a way that it's never been experiences that before and then how so what you mean? Uh, one hundred million dollars of paid media to destroy I may just tell you apart every aspect of your life.

hundred million dollars they spent a hundred million for a job that pays .

how much yeah oh oh, IT comes from from packs from doctor us. Doctor us put in twenty, I think twenty million dollars.

How crazy is that is like what is senate? What does a pay be a senator?

Um you pay being a senator yeah it's it's one hundred seventy four thousand dollars. Like can I talk about yes, please. I don't understand why some incredibly wealthy dudes will spend tens and tens of millions of dollars just to take that. And I try to tell people there's no glamour here. I just talked about that in a in an interview.

Do you think he wanted to become president? And this was like a step president?

I guess everybody wants the iron throne I get. But it's it's it's really and but IT also, it's a different it's a different kinds of skills. And IT IT really doesn't transfer over very well on that. But right now in in pennsylania right now, David mccoy, a connect cate man, connect gate man, he's running in pennsylvania and he lives in connect cut and he's incredibly wealthy. I think he's worth three or four hundred million dollars and he's spending the same race in wisconsin.

They're dropping crazy and really like that's an important conversation that the real problem in american politics for me is is citizens united and unlimited money uh, when they decided that money is speech and now that turns the whole thing, an incredibly damaging right now there has been at least more than half a billion dollars, half a billion dollars on the table in pensylvania just for president. Not, not just, not just the senate races and all their house seats. And I was the most, at least at that point, was the most expensive senate race in history.

And this IT was over three hundred, three hundred thirty million dollars for that one seat. And all of those dollars they are spent to destroy and tell you apart. And then fox news, I was their top, top target for four months.

And social media and I I stayed out of that I I didn't enjoy, but social media, all the conservative influences everything and I just taught me apart. And at that point at the end of september IT, IT was I mean, couldn't get away from IT and IT. Really it's like until you've had a one hundred million dollars to destroy you, it's the next level kind of thing.

And then everyone was they were single, he's a vegetable table. You know he's a retard or he's lost his his brain kinds of things. And then that wasn't true. But but the kinds are terrible things and those kinds of very personal things. And I just got incredibly ugly in a way that .

is going to be a terrible experience to to realize that there's so much money being spent just to attack you and that you you're a part of this very, very large and corrupt machine that's going after you just because they want to control this state and it's a giant swing state .

of cars and yeah the at the whole senate yeah that the whole senate was in fact, we actually we flipped that seat and that's the first time, I think, in the forties or fifties that we've had two democratic senators in pennsylania. Usually it's been A A demand republican.

And now because we're flip that see that it's mathematically it's possible to to retain the majority in the senate, but it's going to be still fairly difficult because we have montana very, very red state, obviously, and and that's really what they're republicans have put A A significant bit to make sure that they can flip montana. And then if montana falls, then they're gone to keep the the majority or they're going to get the majority unless there is like a really surprise one. But that IT may be more kind of difficult.

Do you think that money is the biggest problem in american politics? This ability to spend in saying amount of money?

yeah. I mean, just imagine if you were a movie studio and you're putting out you're going to put out a movie and arrival studio has one hundred million dollars to tell amErica that movie sucks.

Well, that shit and it's crazy and it's just there's always going to unlimited money because it's all about the control of the senate or the house or the the presidency and when when money is speech, it's going to be unlimited and and where what happens it's like that's TV and on social and it's going to be how can I destroy and break that this individual and that's where IT is and IT gets incredibly personal and IT has IT has an impact. I mean, that certainly IT has for me. And until we have unlimited money, it's going to getting, you know, more and more mean personal and expensive. And if you look at the billion, billions of dollars that spent, how what we could have done for our society, the kinds of rules that we could build and other things, if we didn't spend all those money to Terry other apart yet.

it's very strange. And IT sets a terrible tone for the rest of the country because these races, even so, when they're over, people go back to a certain level of civility. IT started to been established that this is on the table. These personal attacks is evil, vicious propaganda, taking things out of context, conflicting people's words.

Yeah, no. You you, you have, you know, you take any a quote, take IT out of context, collect that shit, put ten million dollars behind that and that's in front of millions of ebs, right? They're spontaneously on that.

And it's just it's directly right at you and there's it's it's unlimited money. I mean, when you look back on this race, it's like you are gonna stunned just how much money is put in that, how crazy those ads are and just you can't get away from IT like montana. Montana has, I think, six or seven hundred thousand voters and they've dropped a quarter of a billion dollars.

I don't know how you could even spend a quarter of of a billion dollars in montana. It's like if you have one hundred thousand dollars in cash, you have to pay that in going to mcDonald. I don't know how they do that, but I promise you, everybody in pencil ana, or in any idea these kinds of contested states, they just can't get away from that shit.

And at this point, they just stop paying attention to IT. It's just it's like it's it's noise. It's toxic kinds of noise.

And IT does IT sets a tone for the whole country that we're willing to engage in this way.

Oh yeah, no, it's like that's the thing that turns everything into a nights ice or or or words and IT IT is about trying to destroy that person to convince the other people that you are the worst thing in the world. Your your a marxist, you're a communist or your um it's just all kinds of things and it's the lowest, lowest insulator. And if you really want to fix american politics, I mean, there are issues.

But I promise you if you removed that, that would be a dramatic kinds of thing. And we all have to play that game. Some of us, like myself, I I got a lot more of my money from small dollar donations like like bernie. Bernie know he's been on the show berney. But then other ones, it's like everyone chases the bigger, the bigger checks it's unenviable there to and it's so disingenuous and there's packs and there's other kinds of organizations one way or no, it's it's just the way to fund tens of million dollars to just tear someone apart.

What was your background before you get into politics?

I was a social, I was a social worker, and and I I, I came to a very A A very deeply broken in fraction and tractor community. And I actually started helping Young men and women get their gds and just kind of getting their lives back on track in that sense. And then that's why I did that for several, several years.

And then I decided I wanted to rent from mayor and mere of us, of a small of of a small town. And we had problems with in inequality, in a community that in ninety percent of the population abandoned the community and left. And if anyone's aware of the us.

Steel, I mean, I live right now across the street from that iconic steel mill. I mean, that's really that used to be america's silicon valley, like about half of the world steel used to be manufactured there. But now so much has changed.

And then I ran for mayor and a small town mayor, and and then that turned into, well, I decided, like the kinds of issues that were meaningful to me and the personal kinds of experiences I just thought, hey, I want to project my kinds of experiences in my values. And I started iran for iran for the first time, and twenty sixteen, iran for the senate. I mean, it's pretty kind of strange that you have a small town mayor running for the night they sounded.

And but we had no money, I mean, zero, zero money on that. But we just we'd had a really like grassroots kind of a thing. And we got out across pensylvania and we know we came up a little short, but we pulled in twenty percent of of the votes, which that was pretty, pretty people thought was pretty remarkable. And I Carried my home county, which is alleging that the second largest, and that really kind of set the stage to run for litta or a couple years later after twenty sixteen.

But twenty sixteen, though, that was where amErica met Donald trump and and I was I was early turning the alarm off, saying, hey, we have to be concerned here like, you know, trump has connected with people in ways that it's like we have to be concerned and i'll never forget IT was june in twenty sixteen and I was I was was a surrogate for uh for clinton and and trump announced that i'm showing up in a town called messing medicine, which is a small field town in the valley down from from mars and like, why? Why is he showing up? And I mean, that's not like so either he's crazy or they're y've plugged into something and like I have to see that. So I tried to get into that, just kind of see what was going on. But they they recognize me and they said they get the .

fuck out hard.

Yes, yeah. And so but there, like they figured out that they have to connect and to make that kind of an argument, to go to these kind of places. And IT did IT resonated. And you started to see a lot of the signs and a lot of the energy.

And it's like he there is a problem and the clinton campaign, everybody assumed that he was going to run away with IT yeah and and they made they made the the mistake of just showing up and filled out a fillet of your and pits burg pittsburgh and assume that they were going to be OK. But but a lot had slipped. And now the margins trump created, uh, margins that were unheard know.

We referred to them as roma margins. So in other words, you have red counties and romney would they would covered those by about sixty to sixty five percent. And trump did.

He created eighties, eighties. We were losing eighty, twenty, eighty, twenty. And they go, yeah, that's a small county.

But yeah, you multiply that by fifty seven, fifty seven other colonies. And that's how they scale up. And that's how he won.

And he won by forty five thousand votes. And that's why he captured the blue wall, and that made him president. And here we are right now. The blue wall is they're both fighting on the blue wall and the blue wall is pensylvania. A was consent in michigan .

when you were running during two thousand and sixteen. What were you trying to accomplish? Like what did you want to do that you felt like you could queally provide a service for?

Um well, I wasn't. I just think I was just different. I'm like I was running I was running for about forgotten places, people where americans turned their backs on them and talking about these kinds of important issues like living wage, abandoning the industrial parts of of america, some people watching, uh, what what things have been left behind in places like brad.

It's like, it's astonishing in ninety percent of people left and ninety person of the buildings are gone and that whole region has just been just thrown, throw away. So I just wanted, I didn't. There was a path, I mean, there were two other people in the primary and I thought I could maybe split.

I could split the other two and just sneak by and get thirty three percent plus s one extra vote. But I I came up a little sure because I had no money because it's always going to be about money. And then kd, magana, SHE won, but SHE lost. And then that that was the same cycle and then and the same year that the trump one.

And so since you've been in since you ve gotten ed to the senate, what meaningful change have you been able to accomplish there?

Well, again, you're a freshman and you know my colleague and one that was just here, senator events. I mean, we are both in the same cycle. We both ran in twenty two. So we both there for less than two years, and it's really based on synthesis and it's just kind of like get on the end of that line, you know.

So you are a freshman and is your influences, at least in the institution, are are limited in some sense, but if you have a bigger platform and I did and I try to have those kinds of impacts and have those conversations. But my my first couple um first half of the first year, that was a little took a different day or because I was dealing with with depression, I was depression and I realized that I was in a in a bad place. So so having having to make those kind of choices and I signed myself in the world to read to get help because the depression and and so I think it's an important conversation and I knew I thought at that time that could be politically, could be difficult, but I thought I was important.

And if that costs me something politically, i'm okay. So that's why i'm continuing. So how I the impact i've had, I never fully expected that, that voice would would break through and i'm in contact with people constantly.

Thank thank you for talking about this. I chose to get help or I chose not to follow that path on self harm. And so i've had active conversations with member of congress, or fathers with with Younger kids, and they're like, he, can you please talk and and I do that.

I'm happy to talk to anybody. And so that's a way i've had an impact through through all of that and also my voice through after what happened on ten seventh october seven, and i've decided I was gonna a very consistent voice for israel through that. So that's why kind of like the platform.

But in terms of if anyone's being honest, whether there was a senator, vance or any kinds of freshman senators, it's very limited because otherwise, there's people that have been there for twenty five, thirty years. They are the ones that are me, the chairman. And if you are a minority party, you have incredibly limited kinds ability to to to move an agenda.

So the the depression thing I think it's very important that you talked about that I think transparency is something that people really appreciate um so many people suffer from depression is such a Normal part of being a human being.

And for a guy like you who's a senator who's already gone through being attacked, already gone through all these horrible things that they said about you where you're recovering from a stroke, IT takes a lot of courage to come out and discuss that. I think it's really important. I am really glad you did IT.

I don't thank you, but I don't think you are really courage is like I only had a choice.

But IT is courage because you know, you're going to be publicly attack and it's a vulnerable point. But I think it's not because I think so many people suffer from IT. I think there's courage and coming out and and talking about IT openly and realizing that people going to use as an attack vector and saying, you know what this is important to talk about, this is important to acknowledge and to to show people that you can recover from something like that.

Well, originally I was just going to talk about depression. And there's a paradox. You might be a place in your life that you've actually kind of won, but depression lies to you and IT convinces you that you've lost.

And my depression got far more worse after I won. And and then IT IT was a downward spiral. And then if you if you don't check your depression, then you go down to a dangerous slip about self harm.

And I started to have I got to to occupy that kind of a dark place. And and that's when I realized that I have a choice. It's like if I don't address this, uh then um I had I had an emergency break.

You know, it's like, I have to stop, I have to stop, I have to and that was my kids. And like, I cannot be, I can't be the example. And when you're going to get older in life and you're going to have those kinds of chAllenge, well, hey, dad decided to to leave.

That must be the right thing. And i'm like I I cannot allow myself to be um the example for that. So I stayed in the game and and I was able to get help and and I got much Better.

So like for me, it's like I originally didn't want to talk about cell farm because that's definitely that's definitely not a great political winner, right? But I I was like I have to be answered student, have to be honor about that, an honest and and people that really resonated with people. I I think the first person I was the first politician, especially at at that level, talking about self harm.

And you know, if people are that are suffering, people that, I mean, you have a huge, a huge audience, i'm willing to bet plenty of them are suffering from that are looking through those kinds no and and I know I promise people whatever your path, whatever your path is for recovery um and i'm not an expert, but if you promise yourself to stay in that game, stay in that game that you already you know you're almost guaranteed to get Better because I promise you I will get Better. And I was at the point where I was really in a very dark place, and I stayed in that game and I am staying in front of front of you. I know i'm having this conversation and so that's what I try to tell everybody, whether they're listening today or in other times.

And i've had that it's an honest conversation, but IT is a red and blue conversation and it's a rural and urban or suburban conversation. It's men or women or even Younger kids. I've had conversations with teenagers, you with their parents, and they've even tried to take their lives. And I can't think of anything much more tragic than especially a Young person taking their lives over some of the things that that and and I never thought that that voice would would penetrate, but I did. And that's why we're willing to .

have that conversation. Well, it's apparently it's very common for people that undergo major surgery to have depression afterwards. And there's a the bunch of physiological reasons for that. They believe my friend, doctor mark gordon, who's done a lot of work on traumatic brain injuries and depression amongst athletes and soldiers. He did a lot of research on that.

And one one of the things that they found is that people that undergo a like a long period of anesthesia and either heart surgery or any kind of major surgery, there's a disruption of your indecent system afterward. It's that leads people to be just weary and broken down. And I could imagine that along with the senate race and all the other chaos and all the stress has involved with that, he plays a significant factor.

I'm sure I must have been A A A factor um I I discovered that I had had two friends the roughly my age and they had Young kids and they they took their lives and they were both in in the media and both one was worked for an incredibly elite organization and another one had a really strong position. One had a heart attack and the other one had a stroke years earlier.

And I found out, and I wish I could have talked to them and I did talk to to to them, but IT doesn't mean they were weak or that they gave up. It's just, I got lucky and I found my emergency break. And and and if you have any kinds of study on people in self harm, there was an individual.

He jumped off the golden gate and he survived. And immediately after, he says, as he cross over the rail and I want to live, I want to live, what have I done? It's like i've made a terrible mistake and you hit, you hit the water, go in seventy five miles an hour, and it's it's very against chance of surviving.

But he did. And now he became obsessed with this idea, and he he looked out for everyone that survived in about forty five people, out of eighteen hundred people that have jumped over, they survived. And IT was unanimously, people immediate.

Oh my god, I want to live. I want to live. I want to live and not one single person thought, well, I wish I was more successful.

So like that. I tried to put that forward. And I can imagine how difficult because, uh, they had children the same age, mine. And trying to explain to a ten year old, a sun like what why did.

Daddy leave those are dark conversations and um uh so uh it's not about weakness, it's about trying to get away from that people that are suffered from depression to if anyone's been there, it's like your your mind is on fire. I need just want to get away from that. I just please, I need relief from that kind of everything.

And every now and then you have, I kind of like the eye of the hurricane, or you finally thought maybe things good to get Better, but IT IT IT ars back in and it's like you get to back to that very dark place and and I just know, I just tell everybody, i'm i'm begging you stay in that game. I promise you I can get Better and the depression is lying to you. IT is actually lying to you and, uh is but don't make the kind of choice that you can come back from.

I have a friend who jumped off the bridge. Die that way. It's it's a terrible, just a terrible thing to find out.

And you always feel like you could have talked to them. You could have helped. You always feel like I didn't know, I didn't know he was suffering.

And then I found out they died few days later. And I was just like, they just believes you feeling so lost. It's such a terrible way to go to the bridge. God, how many people like would you say how many people have jumped off that bridge? The golden gate.

I think the day they reference about over eighteen hundred people and a small, small, tiny survived and and really being faced that idea that you're not going to come back, it's it's like spontaneously securities like, oh god, I want to live, I want to live, I want to live like it's IT was unanimous about and that such an important kinds of research that that that he did um and it's like again, like that's my message.

IT has to be very simple, stay in that game and it's like you you can't do this, you can do this and you need support. And yeah, yeah, you need support, whatever that is. And some people have different kinds of resources.

I would went that for everybody, the resources that I had. And that's not fair. It's not fair.

And I got lucky. It's not because i'm like i'm a so much stronger or Better. It's like, no, no, I just got lucky on that. And I promise you, you are not going to regret staying in the game and you can get Better and that is probably I think in my my opinion, that's about seventy five percent of of getting back Better.

What have you done to to what has helped .

to um my my family that that stuff really would like every every person needs to have like that ever. I call that like an emergency break. It's like you're you're out of control.

You you're having that the darkest conversation you'll have with yourself and you have to have some something to stop that otherwise it's you're gona go over the edge and and everyone needs to have that, whatever that is, whether it's your family, whether it's your wife for your husband or whether IT is or this, that there has to be some IT has to get Better. It's gonna get Better. That's why I say stay on the game.

And i'm not an expert, i'm not trained in that. But when people reach out to me and say, well, I feel like this and I like it's like help works. I promise you I will get Better and I can't guarantee what your path will be. But what I can say is that stay in that game and you were going to find your way on that path and you're never going to regret. I go, you know, big. It's it's just the finality, the finality of that a and you something you can make a bad choice and you know, well, that might set you back in life but but that's that's the one choice you can come back from and you will leave people in your life that we'll never understand or you wish you could reach back and you could let them know um and IT stay away from that kind of blackness because you I promise you, you would regret and if you can come back.

so what what has help to counseling, medication? Like what? What did? What are the things that got you back on track other than just your family?

I am. The election in everything, I was convinced that i've lost everything. I had I was difficult to to fully speak and my kids, they got pulled into the social media kinds of effective and um. Um it's like i've destroyed my my health. I've I and now I against you know odds I won and now am I going to be able to do this job and and you know what I ve been Better off if if I didn't survive a and I got to that that kind of a dark place but um and then I just had this like that spontaneous where it's like um uh my kids it's like, no I love you that oh my god he is like like when they were visiting A I didn't want them to visit me at all to read guy was like, why would they want to be around this right but they did and I was like this kind of spontaneous kinds of love and and IT just was like a shot and it's just like I can come back.

I can come back I thought it's like, I would they want this a mess back and and then know just working through a lot of those things and other kinds of techniques and and things that was like but that was probably the single most transformative event where it's like I realized that I can come back to my life otherwise it's like I thought i've lost everything. Would I be able to even do my job and it's like, do I even have a career? I mean, i'm talking about uh like, uh, that was a significant national uh story when after I signed myself in and that pulled my kids in through that.

I mean this idea after we announced that we're signing in and there were news trucks outside their house and and they had they had the trauma of thinking that dad could have lost after the stroke. And now he is. It's just it's it's put them through so much. And that's why I was convinced that they probably don't want me around. And then I made made the stupid mistake of I, I, I went on social media and thanks, I like and just I read some of that shit I mean, it's just, it's just, oh my god, millions and millions of views and videos and it's just like go and after my family and saying, you you know, hey, he's a vegetable, he's he's a retard and sing, sling blade, all kinds of inks and IT wasn't IT wasn't the individual kinds of insults IT was the volume and just how widespread IT was. And i'm like who jumps online to go after a stranger that and they're really done anything to you personally.

but I think it's not just individuals. I think it's targeted. I think there's a lot of that stuff, especially when there's something that is significant as a senate sea. And I think there's yeah well, I mean.

it's like if I have one hundred if I have one hundred million dollars to convince you that you're a terrible person in your the worst thing ever and that that that inspires a lot of people and they hey, that's the mission. It's like he clearly, he must be those things. And where there is no, there is no tap out. There is no tap out. It's like even after we won, after I won, in some sense that actually accelerated.

right? It's not the war not over. It's just begun.

No, oh no, no. And the second the second you step in that kind of arena on the federal level for like A A senate seat, if it's like a purple state, like pencil vania, you know, I promise you there will be tens and tens of millions dollars. And their mission is to turn you into the worst thing in the world. And whoever survives, that's the one that's going to be in that seat. And I still will never understand why someone, you independently wealthy kinds of people will spend and you incredible some money and and I try people, i'm like, there's no glamour here. Well, like i'm in in a five hundred square foot apartment and i'm like here with my phone and like, grab a what's IT tonight and then it's like, i'm like I watch you TV on netflix and things and I I ask, I ask my colleagues and like is they're kind of secret society, like crazy parties or sitting around with cigars like, well, no, like I can have the same version of that.

That's the perception of .

right perception into .

a club yeah yeah that we all have many .

kinds of dialogue and west wing you know like talking like you know kinds of turn know and really it's just like and I described that as a lot of it's just bad. It's just bad performance are yeah yeah thanks. That's usually what IT is.

It's just bad performance are and some people like if you're if you're a safe and a safe status or safe seat, you and especially if you have the resources and they're incredibly wealthy people, they buy house and they move their life there. So you're able to kind of things. But like I don't have those resources and i'm in a very, very of the ultimate purple.

And so I spend more than fifty percent of my time away and I missed my kids. It's rough for for that. I mean, I signed up for that. Uh, but I promise you there's no clAmber in that.

Well, they're certainly you know, glamour, if you're honest. But I think there's a lot of people that look to a certain members of the government that have jobs to pay one hundred and fifty hundred and seven thousand thousand year, but somehow another acquire hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of career, usually through some kind of insider trading.

Well, yeah, of course, I mean, I don't know any those stocks or anything and definitely like if if you have any kinds of impact or you know that there's something civil coming.

Yeah, I just like it's like how is that legal? It's well, now we should have the kind of legislation to make sure that you're not like if you are on congress, you shouldn't have any kinds of stocks because you are going to be passing kinds of laws at sea eeta that know you have to separate that they really shouldn't be a part of that kinds of a thing. And um I I mean my i'm all out open um all of us we have to have our wealth and all that there. And and if i'm not the the the the poorest, uh I have probably the bottom five and you know other people there are were hundreds of millions of dollars ah so you know we can have that situation where um you know if you're going to be involved on those kinds of legislation that you can't be enriched ed by those kinds of and there has to be some kind of influence that seems simple.

that seems like logical, like most people would agree to that.

Yeah, there's a lot there's a lot of an era. It's the same thing. I think if any one of us were being honest, money is destroying our democracy and that some people that might sound try exactly say, but it's one hundred percent .

though I think most people more objective .

would degree with. I promise you, IT is, IT is absolute. IT is a charge of american democracy, and money is king.

And what's that money for? That money is for tearing you apart. And that creates more, more and more kinds of instability and cruelty. And then now when I ent through when I was in graduate school for that stuff, I mean, there was no social media and there wasn't and there wasn't podcast, there was in all kinds of things. Ah so that made IT more difficult.

But but now there's all of those things and and social media is an excEllent and count know just unlimited money and that is what you know like i'm sure you you're you're an athlete and you for that n fell players is like way who would you want your son to play? And sometimes say when I wouldn that for my son and and it's like i'm relieved that my oldest is like he is no interest in being in politics and so um it's I can't imagine it's gonna a get Better until you know we address this idea that unlimited money is unlimited attack and its unlimited cruelty and hyperbole and just all kinds of poisoning the the will that you half of us are gonna hate your gut and the other half, that's my team yeah. So well.

I strongly feel that the internet should remain the way as in terms of people being able to post on social media, anonymous ly, if they so choose. But the problem with that is IT can be captured by money, and IT can be captured by these enormous groups that have bought farms, whether it's state actors, whether it's other countries, other nations that are doing that to try to attack our our system and to try to promote certain narratives law, whether it's our own country itself doing IT, because I think we do IT too, and I think that plus do IT, and it's just .

people hook themselves up. It's like you self select your cocoon know and like i'm a big fan of apple news and it's like thirteen bugs so much and and but I read everything across the spectrum though you know very, very left and very, very right in between and and I think it's really I think that's your responsibility, especially if you're and elected later to to be chAllenged to chAllenge yourself on the ideas. And it's like clearly, one side doesn't have all the answers and the other side can be one hundred percent wrong and and it's just like being chAllenging and living or taking in other kinds of perspectives, I think that's a responsibility because otherwise, if you only just cocoon yourself into and it's just that turns into the one gigantic circle jerk, and that's why IT just turns people that is kind of dig in. And it's like the problem is them.

And we, yes, what's the problem with human beings in generals that we tend to be very tribal and we tend to commit to an ideology with comfortable? Yes, sure. Especially when you're in a echo chAmber, everyone's greeing with you.

You get social credit from saying the things that these people agree with and you feed off that. But it's when it's been captured by it's not just these people exchanging ideas. It's also a bunch of people that are manipulating people's ideas. You know my of you error potential like renate arrest as work with the internet research agcy they what they uncovered what what they were doing was using this was like during the twenty sixteen election using social media. And IT was a lot of russian troll farms and trial farms.

other countries. It's possible. But but but to be honest, that election wasn't turned on. I think russian and interference. No, i'm like, I what what happened in two thousand and sixteen was trump? No, he plugged into like kinds of a of an energy or you know, like IT was just like kind of looking to make that kind of of a connection there.

Well, he's a legitimate sider. This is the appeal. The appeal is that people think that this system is completely rigged and is captured by money and special interest and enormous corporations. And that here's a guy who's outside of this system. completely. And the evidence of that is how the system turned against him, and how you got to see people on television every night talking about russia gate, talking about how he's a pop of puttin, talking about the steel dc a, talking about all these different things that turned out to not be true. And IT further .

never thought I never bought into some of that kind of a stuff because if anyone that spend any time on the ground in one of those states, it's like it's very clear that wasn't because of some some small kinds of tweet and things like whatever. It's undeniable. And and also.

Remember, like he was, the republican party was like, this is a joke. And I remember jb, jeb bush, you know, and he he like one hundred or two, two hundred million dollars and and he just went by. He picked him off and and even then people thought he was gonna win.

But h he did. But but remember though, overall though, that was seventy five thousand votes. That's a mathematical like know. I mean, think of that one hundred hundred sixty million votes, seventy five thousand spread across three large states, including my own, that transform, uh, american politics and in the world as well. And I just came down to seventy five thousand voters in those three states and that's that's time that's where we're at .

yeah it's it's an extraordinary time in that regard, right? I mean, well, well.

I mean, if I charted territory, well, I reference a movie, if you like, a bull worth. And IT was a warn beauty, and he was a senator, and he kind of have like a breakdown. And he started saying provocative things. He used to get up in front of his audience and and kind of like like that gaff of of accidentally speak telling the truth yeah and IT was kind of like IT was an absurd. I mean, when I was in great school, that was like, put up is like, well, thanks.

I mean, people enjoyed that and now that became a term and politics single, we uh affect even a president obama okay, we all want to secretly go full full bull worth and but that's what really he channeled in where he would say, no, it's kind of like he projects kind of like I want to give a fuck and just say all those kinds of a thing and people have responded to those kinds of things and a lot of people that's that's the bug. But you have to understand that that for enough people that's the feature yeah and and that's kind of what they want whatever that is IT IT describes um um a brand you know not I don't admire that, but you still have to kind of a marvel. The level to say crazy guys are things that that IT use them all.

Well, I guess maybe we're both old enough to remember when George and the George bush, H. L. Gore, he is like this guy, and that moved the polls. People are like he role desires at bush, like things and like you, like IT used to be much more state. And now think of what's been said now, all of the stuff and and I don't think people aren't paying attention some of the whatever the latest .

outrage is yeah it's um I think one of the europeans is that you speak like a Normal human being. You speak like a person who actually cares about these issues and you seemingly speak from the heart. You don't seem polished, which is a good thing. And I think people.

I wish, I wish I wasn't more handsome. I don't think that. I don't think that's good.

No, I know. It's like i'm honest. Yeah, i'm honest. I think i'm i'm in touch with you know what i'm limited. I wasn't blessed with the model looks and but .

it's not looks. It's the polish of speaking like a congressman, like a senator, like a presidential candidate. But it's this kind of bulls shit way of communicating that's inauthentic, that even though it's effective, even though it's pushed and smooth, people never get a sense of who that person is as a human being.

Trump is not polish. He's not polished in that sense. But you get a sense of who is as a human being.

There doesn't seem to be a avail. There doesn't seem to be this. There's disconnect between a human being and the thoughts you might not agree with them. You might think he's crass or root, but at least you know that he's the guy that's talking. These are his thoughts and you people trust that way more than they try someone who's, you know, polished but full shit yeah no.

it's the scarf face is like word and balls you i'm not, you know and that's you're losing politically if you're telling people do not believe with their eyes are seen like these kinds of issues and it's i'm not gona lie or i'm not going to toe a line if I if I don't if I don't believe in that that a so um but in terms of of the conversation um I think it's it's it's all a life of god and and it's not because they don't care. It's actually i'm very committed and I really do care. But but I think people you know like I think authenticity, that's that's the less that's really that's one of the less meaningful currency in this shitty business.

So I was having a conversation this morning with a friend of man. We were talking about voter I D, and he was shocked that you don't need voter I D. And I believe its fifteen states.

Fifteen states require no twenty. I think it's twenty four or twenty five states require I D, but only I think eleven of them require you to have photo I D. This is a weird one in this selection that i've tried to look at as objectively as possible. And I can't see any reason why you would not need I to vote unless you wanted people to vote that aren't qualified to vote.

Yeah well, I mean, like honey, honestly, I would I would like to remind everybody and it's not like a talking point. It's actually it's an effect that a voter fraud is incredibly, incredibly rare. It's really hard to to to um to get away with that successfully. And in twenty twenty scale, you mean yeah it's not scalable.

Yeah it's like I mean, it's like and usually it's it's kind of local kinds of communities and people either know that person or it's it's not it's never gonna organized in the point where you can pack you can pack uh, uh, a box or you can determine that that kind of a thing. It's it's just that you after election, election, election, it's just never been know in twenty twenty out of over millions of votes in twenty twenty in pennsylvania, there were five or six once. And what happened is that that they turned out to be the republicans, and they used their decease, their dead moms, to vote for trump through that and and that that that was documented.

And they were all, they were all. They were caught, they were charged. They were convicted and all those votes that would have been six votes out of all of IT.

So do you think that that's the only voter fraud that exists?

Well, people also we need remind that you the voter database, they're cross checks against deaths and you know who's moved or what's their status are like, I like know all that cross check back and forth, back and fourth, back and forth. So it's it's it's a living kinds of thing where it's continually updated and all of those kinds of things and itself checks.

And remember also in twenty twenty truck, there was like a way there there's cheating. There's all these things are happening. And remember, there is probably fifty seven and fifty eight red counties and all of those commissioners ers that are in charge that they were like, hey, no, there was none.

There was none. And even in georgia, even in georgia, governor camp, governor camp, the k you georgia IT was very close. But IT was, IT was honest. There was there was no kinds of raud in that that that's a republican. But other other .

than making things a little bit easier to cheat, what would be the logic behind not having voter ID? Like what i've tried to look at this is objectively as possible. I can't find any reason while you would not require someone to be able to prove that they're the person they say they are when they are .

putting in their ballot. It's not a hill that i'm saying we have to die on that again .

um but but it's a vulnerability clearly.

right. Uh well well, it's also they're some people may not believe that in a lot of these kinds of communities, ones that I that I live in, for some people they're not going they don't have an ID necessarily or they've lost IT or whatever in.

But you need one to get a driver's license.

you need one to get a ah they would have to get an or IT costs examining. Dollars are those kinds of a thing. It's it's a barrier and IT usually tends to skew more towards people that are you coming from those kinds of communities and and the republicans understand that they're usually to they're going to skew towards democratic voters through that. Uh and um so that that's kind of the argument on that and there's never been any evidence that there is widespread kinds of of voter fraud and that but we really .

didn't have widespread male ballots to the extent that IT was done in twenty, we really .

didn't have that all were and those five or six dead moms that were voting, those were those world well, actually one one guy, one guy went in. He voted, you know and then he went up to his car and he put on sunglasses in a bob cap and he walked in you like, hi, hello, i'm here to vote. And the guys like, you were just here. What are you doing? And then they called the police and and it's like he was trying to double vote.

Did you see the story about the chinese national who was arrested because he voted, and then he tried to get his ballot back and that's how they they caught him. It's possible. Yeah, this is thing that just happened. And unfortunately, once he's voted, even though he was not eligible to vote, his vote is going to count. Um texas removed some I mean, there's lawsuits about IT, but texas removed somewhere in the igher hood of a million people that we're in eligible to vote that could have been voting well.

But everybody who knows who's voting and who's not .

voting on that and everybody knows well .

and remember also to uh to minion people on on the trump side the ox said that that dominion was corrupt and and then and that cost fox uh, eight hundred million dollars. They had to pay eight hundred million dollars about defamation for saying that there was IT was rigor if it's not and there was no evidence and they had to just acknowledge that this was the honest thing. So but .

dimensions is it's a computer program, right? It's it's a computer like that's what the electronic voting .

yeah that that was a system that mostly and often that was red states. They were using those d well.

that that is true because Derek MBA documentary hacking democracy to jersey.

that again, there is always going to be people that are going to try to to have an influence on.

right? But did you see that documentary IT .

was about the the republicans doing IT.

I haven't been documentary during the bush administration and one they show that the dialled machines um and dialled was a significant contributor, I believed to the republican party. They showed up the documentary that you could use a third party input to change the results. And they they actually proved IT in the documentary, and people were pointing to, this is, oh my god, the republicans are cheating.

And the republicans have used this to try to rig the election for George bush. There was an H. P. O documentary.

I'm not accusing. I've never accused the republicans like first in twenty sixteen.

I know i'm not. I say you did. What i'm trying to say is that this is not A, A, A thing that's only been leveled against the, the, the democrats using IT. This is not like an accusation that only applies to democrats. In the past, the similar accusation was applied to republicans.

Yeah, well, I think we can all agree that we need to have a just like our border, we need to secure border and we need an absolutely secure voting voting system as well too. I mean that that should never be considered controversial bride. And in twenty sixteen, a lot of democrats were were outraged that that that we lost. But but I never claimed that there was republicans cheated or do all these kinds of IT. thanks.

And it's like, you know, the problem the problem for accusing that there was voter fraud is is that if you don't like the the outcome, right? You know so and I have never witnessed over A A an election if if they would ve won that they claimed, well, there might be yes, yeah, no, they're not shooting so that so I think that's kind of I think that kind of the underlying truth about that and and of course, you know, I think I was the first democrats saying, hey, so we need to secure border. It's a significant issue. And if I thought there was any kinds of issues, and i've been very vigilant throughout, i've been actively involved in those kinds of things, and i've never witness those kinds of a thing .

that what you mean by issues like what kind of issues you're talking about, you talking about people letting people in, in order to get votes.

well, it's not there's not that level kinds. I don't think there's that level kinds of organization.

but there is an organization that's moving these people to swing states. There's a significant number of these people that are illegal immigrants that have made their way to swing states. And then there's been calls for amnesty. There's been calls for allowing these people to have a pathway to citizenship in a them to vote.

The fear that a lot of people have is that this is a coordinated effort to take these people that you're allowing to come into the country, then you're providing them with all sorts services like food stamps and housing and setting them up with and then providing a pathway to amnesty. And then you would have voters that would be significantly voting towards the democrats because there are the people that enable them to come into the country in the first place, first place and provided them with those services. This is a big fear that people have and that you're ringing the system and that this will turn all these states into essentially locked blue like california. Well.

you know, it's well, immigration always going to be a tough issue of inter nation. I had as a professor in grade school, alan simpson Allen simpsons, and he was, he was a united states senator. He was why ommen and he he was actually approach choice for republic and and I mean, how rare that would be. Well, IT doesn't exist now. And he said you are never going to have any meaningful immigration kinds of legislation like because both side that's useful for them and it's going to be back and fourth, back and fourth and .

he said that twenty five years ago, useful, meaning the debate .

having IT always political is for useful. And he, he, he said they were never going to be and he said that in one thousand eight ninety nine and I was I voted for the border deal and that went down and that mean he said that twenty five years ago and that was absolutely true now that they had an opportunity to do a comprehensive border bipartisan and that went down because trumped um he he declared that that that's that's a bad deal after he was negotiated with with the other side .

but what didn't that deal also involve amnesty? And didn't a deal also involve a significant number of illegal aliens being allowed into the country every year? I think there was two million people, so still the same sort of situation. And their fear is exactly what I talked about, that these people will be moved to swing states and that that will be used to essentially rig those states and turn them blue forever.

Well, i'm not really sure that's that's what's in play. I think it's really like it's important that we have have an honest conversation.

Doesn't that seem logical though? If you have a significant number of people that are being moved in the swing that i've come across the border illegally and then you provided them with all these services, you provide them with food stamps. E, B, T.

Provided them with housing. You could, if you gave those people amnesty and allow those people to vote. And IT was very organized. You're talking about seventy five thousand votes over a few counties that switched everything over to the republicans. You could see how you import ten million people over the course of four years illegally and then move a significant number of them to swing states and then provide them with all these services and then give them a path, the citizen, you can essentially rid those states. Undeniably.

immigration is changing our nation. I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time in texas, but is very clear that that immigration has has remade texas. And I think it's generally it's it's for a good thing. And like my wife, my wife, brazilian and SHE was he was her family was documented and he was seven years old when he was brought here. And I am the big pro, pro immigration a guy that there was.

But it's also has to be true that we need to secure border and we have to work this out because we are pretending that you have millions and millions of people living in the shadow and they are here and we have to work together and figure out a way to get forward because they're here. And IT seems incredibly a difficult kind of logistics thing. And I think it's it's also an american to to round everybody up and who of the vast majority of them, we're just living legal lives and doing a lot of the jobs that other people here would never do. I think we can agree on .

what jd vans actually talked about that other day when he was here, he was explaining how there are CEO of large corporations that want these people to come across because they need cheap labor. And the way to get cheap labor s have people that are illegals working for less than what would be our minimum wage.

Well, i'm not a what I mean minimum wage really. I think it's it's most incredibly difficult and violent kinds jobs like like and that's like that's jobs that a lot of people don't want to. A lot of those those .

are a really processing, right? And this is the thing that's been said about springfield, ohio, that these that have moved to spring filter hot as people are complaining about him, but the people that have employed these people of saying, listen, these people are taking jobs that other people that lived in this community don't want. They work very hard.

They're very happy that they have this pathway to be in america. Now, I think most people that come here, come here because they want a Better life for their families. And amErica is essentially a country that was founded by immigration. I'm a grandchild of immigrants. I'm here because of immigration and this is an immigrant country essentially.

Yeah and and it's like it's again and like a the patients the patience you know that they're referencing in ohio, in springfield, I mean, they're not eating dogs. They're not eating pets and those kinds of things. Now it's reasonable. And then i've said the same thing that we have to have a secure border. But IT didn't even apply IT to that situation. That was all a legal situation that was M D M nesty excess me um and that's because a hate was was a IT was uh IT was terrible a terrible, a terrible situation and to me they were doing those jobs and and republicans, you know even were the republican governor was saying, like these are good workers and this is not the problem. They aren't eating geese and it's just like you can be very propre border, like I am, or you can be very strict on immigration, but you don't have to demonize or try to turn a group of people and that they're eating your .

dog well and they eating ducks and eating to look, i'm sure some people have done that. Know why I know that because some people do that in places that are just americans, ducks are edible and some people wanted eat a duck and just you're not going to stop IT, but that's not the major problem that people face. So this is the procede of IT, right? The procede of IT is you give a pathway to people that are from very unfortunate circumstances.

And I think we would both agree that if we were living in those countries and there is a pathway to citizenship in the united states, all you had to do is to make IT across the border. We would both do IT. IT was Better for our families, who was Better for our future, if we were living in a place that had no hope and no future.

And all you to do is make IT to america. And and you could work. We would all do IT.

I would do IT. You would do IT. I bet everybody listening to this would do IT if they found themselves in that circumstances.

Ces, that's the best aspect of IT. The best aspect of IT is good people that are ambitious, that want a Better life, which is how this country is founded. The worst aspect of IT is venezuela. Gangs are taking over apartment buildings in aura, colorado and santoro eo, texas. That's the worst aspect of IT, is that they're letting in gangs members venezia es, empty out their prisons and essentially.

according to the president.

boat lift whole what happens in cuba and the empty out their prisons and instructing these people to make IT to america. This is a significant problem with the open barter.

yes, and that's why we need to secure border. And there's also in that all of this is about a truth, is that amErica is a beacon for the to the world yeah, billions of people. The demand to become a citizen here or to participate in our amazing society.

The demand outstrips the the space there. There were already the very pro immigration. We we allow more kinds of a path more than any other nations in the world on that.

And people are willing to die, and they put themselves at risk, just the kind of get here to be over this. But here. So amErica isn't the problem.

AmErica is, amErica is one of the great hopes in the world. And that's why so many people wanted to be a part of that. And and that's why I have to have an effective border. And it's like if we had a real issue here and we wanted to address that, and that's why you know my my former professor said that you're never going to have the kind of a deal because IT is useful for both sides to web size that and to demo ize one side or turn the other thing in there because it's a serious important issue.

It's a political talking point that they're always gonna use.

That's we're saying, yeah, it's useful.

I mean, it's weis weapon. It's weapon ice and that's why you have to have an an honest conversation, right? I think i've always know I I was reaching out saying that was referred to hr one and that that was like kind of like the dream kind of immigration law coming out of the house and I was like, y if that border deal goes down and then it's like, hey, we should continue to have that conversation, right? No, you know it's like they're parts of their parts.

But what's contradictory is that, say, if you're coming from canada or europe and you're a highly skilled, college educated person who wants to live in america, become the states citizen, the path to citizenship is incredibly difficult. It's hard. You have to go up for review.

You have to show that you're doing something that americans can do. You have to be a person of significant talent or ability. There's something about you that we want you in here.

Yet if you just make IT across the border and walk in, people want to give you amnesty and they want to allow you a path to see the ship quickly. Without any of those whose you don't have to take test, you'd have to go up for review. Not only that, but once you get here, once you apply for amnesty, there's a significant weight period where you're allowed to maintain your residence in this country. It's between seven and sometimes longer years.

Yeah, we we have to figure out what's what's the .

way kind of crazy that isn't IT.

but that the fact is we have we have an issue. We have millions of people here and the vast majority of them were are living legal kinds of lives.

And of what would you do if you were the president? Let's imagine president patthern has to deal with this issue. You want to dress american people. What do you think should be done again.

having, I would have the same conversation to the congress, to american people like i'm having right now as well too. Like I think it's two things can be true. At the same time, you can be very pro immigration.

I wouldn't have the beautiful family that I have if IT wasn't for, you know, chAllenges and in issues with immigration. But then we have to figure out a way that we can marry A A successful way that we can we can combine. You know, I think I personally, I do think immigration is is really one of our our secret weapons.

I think that's what makes america, yes, so, so strong. Ree with you. Yeah, I made IT ambitious .

people who want a Better life for me. That's literally how we're founded.

That's what you see people trying to to live illegally in india, russia. You don't see people trade finance like that. I mean that, I mean it's in some sentence is in a weird way.

It's like a um it's a significant but a good problem to hand because we have we are such an amazing nation. Yeah but if i'm if I am president fair, i'm like kate. We got to figure this out.

We got to figure this out. What would you to ze and to ize? The republicans say that there is then a phobic. I mean, the second you start calling somebody a old year ephod. C, it's like within the conversation is going to shut down, right? And i'm saying, I it's like for a serious conversation requires serious people and the second, the second and that's when you talk about unlimited money and it's like suddenly you're like, I mean, I had I had gigantic billboard and photo min equals you open borders and fetter you know like it's just like I get turned into like a markest yeah, yeah, yeah that all these kinds of things and it's just like and of course, that was never true. And then when I had the opportunity, because as A A senator and we have that kinds of legislation in front of me and like, yes, we need have a serious ones and now people like, we're shocked and I go away and I thought they told this that he was all like border and open up and whatever.

And it's just not true. What's the problem with people building a fake narrative around your actual opinions? And I think people been shocked by you. And we've actually talked about on the podcast over the last couple of years. If you save very reasonable things, very reasonable, honest things.

you and it's rare in the politicians. I'm eager to talk to anyone and like I like I mean I was thrill to be here and I ve been a long time fan of years and and it's like these are the kinds of um you know like we parts of times we become too fragile like they're not not allowed to talk about this things, they not ready to have these kinds of conversation. I never understood why that that's that's really a problem but but it's like when people discover it's like, well, hey, he seems to be kind of reasonable or me I disagree some things but he's not what one hundred million dollars, you know, train me to think that that's .

what true the propaganda so like, what do you think could be done if you were president for mental spring IT back to that? What would you do about the border? Like how do you secure the border but also allow a pathway for people to pursue their hopes and dreams in the united states?

Yeah, I I would have know for me, I would have start with the H. R. two. And there are elements that they're just not palled to.

There are members of my colleagues that they come from more, more deep blue states and that becomes up. It's unavailable to some people. Uh.

so how do you secure the border? How would that be done?

H, well, I I mean, IT, it's it's just, uh, it's gonna have to know that the best border deal is is the is the only one that can pass and and IT hr two, H R, two was described as like, kind of like a joke. I called that the the only fans list of what the republicans went for for immigration. Why the only fans wish list like this is what we all want, but like the only fans, this is what we want. Um and was never .

that was never .

gone to pass, that was never gonna pass that was like what every republicans on the house of the hard, the hard liners that that's what IT was and they passed IT because in this cycle the republicans have the majority in the house and now they they put that up and that's never gonna pass in the senate because we have control and then that kind of got sideline. And then when everything kind of came together, and that was the aid deal that was for ukraine, for israel and from china, no time, then and then and then the republicans tied the border to to passing that and and there were some people that were frustrated saying, hey, no, no, that's that's that's less one.

The more frustrating things about bills is that you can take a bill about an issue, say energy or whatever, immigration, and attached a bunch of other stuff I support for foreign aide, support for specific wars, or whenever IT is, you could throw bunch of stuff in there, really shouldn't be in there. And then you have these pills that are two thousand pages long and no one's really reading him. I thought.

well, I thought I was reasonable. I thought I was reasonable to have that conversation. And ah, let's have that conversation.

I mean, because for me, I was about security and for that aid, that aid bill, that was for me, and I think that was, that was our global war on democracy, right? You know whether it's ukraine, whether it's an israel in china, and clearly wood, their intent for china is on taiwan and all that's coming and and that's really what's under assault is undeniable that democracy is under under attack and that's why i'm like, he, we're got to stand and we're got to push back against that and now now and like, hey, and we need to have a secure border so let's put everything together and we reach that. We actually reach that. And and IT took months. IT literally took months.

But give me your utopian version of IT. Like, let's assume that you could just get this past, what would you do? What would you do to secure the border, but also provide a pathway to people that want a Better life?

It's only gonna to be a negotiated way. Bright, talented to both sides. I understand that.

But what would you do if you knew you could just get something through without this negotiation? What do you think could be done? What's the best version of IT? What's the utopia in version for john federman?

Well, again, I think eventually, if you are living your best lives and you're following the law and and you really just showed up because, hey, I have no path for for for a life that I would want for my kids you know, it's like that to me that's very american. And remember what's in in what's inside the the statue of liberty. It's like send us tired, huddled masses to IT wasn't just a sending the phds and the and those kinds of things.

I mean, that's what really made our nation, the steel industry. The steel industry, in my part of the state that came from me was european. And IT was all kinds of immigrants.

They all came. They couldn't build the houses fast enough. And that was all foreign labor.

And they a lot of them, we're sacrifice because there was an incredibly a dangerous business in the steel industry. And and that that built our nation and that became part of our society. And that's really every, every kinds of wave.

And that and and to me, amErica has to be open and a path for anyone that are playing by the rules. Because the the group that you're from um or the part of you all started the same kind of a process. It's inevitable able that that's that's the enduring truth and that's what made amErica special. And they made make a strong .

I agree with you so but what could physically be done to secure the border? I mean, the war was sort of dismissed during the trop administration, but he was also discussing the obama administration. Even bill clinton talked about the importance of having secure borders. What could be done physically to secure the border?

Yeah well, again, because that it's like that becomes that becomes like a third rail way. We can talk about this or but .

IT just I understand that politically, but let just assume that that's not an issue. What would you want to do?

Like I would want to make sure that we first, we have to acknowledge the truth. It's like immigration has been an issue because amErica is an amazing country and they're coming from broken countries where they've all recognized that there's not A A meaningful path for them to have a quality of life and they're willing to risk their lives and sometimes they even drowned and it's like, I can't imagine turning turning could imagine turning your children over to a coyote and they're going to go like like if you're trying to leave.

Imagine I like in pensylvania a like walking to north CarOlina with your kids on your back. I mean, it's like these are desperate kinds of situations. And IT wasn't an invasion in that sense. IT was just people wanting to have a part of the american dream one and acknowledged where that that and that needs to have a path otherwise you're going to round up and that's not realistic and there's not the resources and and that's going to be incredibly disruptive and it's going to be damaging economically is as well, too.

So how do you provide a pathway .

while my respect.

how do you provide a pathway while also securing the border?

Well, well, to me, I think we can you know chew gum and walk at the same time well on this. And it's not going to be perfect. It's going to be messy and it's not going to be a but .

what would that look like.

whether there's where it's actually a barrier or you know hiring thousands and thousands of more agents and whatever that IT takes on that. And and it's like the best border deal in that situation is the best one that can that can be that can pass because because otherwise know like what if I could wake up with a perfect cat hair or you know, pay it's like, you know but it's it's like, you know practicing the possible and we were as close as we've ever game in years and years and that never came to into I understand .

what you're saying that IT has to pass, but what i'm saying is, imagine that wasn't the case. What could be done like if we could all agree, we could put politics aside. So you know what? Everything john federman is saying makes total sense.

We do need a pathway for these people. IT is a beautiful part of america. The reason why people come here in the first place is because it's the land of opportunity. But yet we also have to keep venezuela angs and prisoners are coming across and murderers and gang members and cartel.

yeah. And we have to we have to weed them out and we have to we have to deport them. absolutely.

It's like this is so how do you find them and how do you deport them?

How do you find them .

and how do you deport them?

Well, again, that's just like taking taking some kind of an inventory of like who's actually here on this, and we have to figure out who's actually here on those kinds of a thing. And and there are going to be you know it's statistically that's a fact that out of x million people, for example, you know, it's a fact, it's statistically that some that things, terrible things, you're gonna perpetrated by those things.

And statistically in some sense, that that native amErica is like, not not but american citizens, you know, and the criminality, if if anything, the criminality is slightly higher, you know, in an immigration communities as well and some of the most propre american kinds of views, uh, that's that's that's projected in those kinds of communities. So I mean, just like the community that that brought my my wife and their family to this to this country and and that's that's kind of we're read. And I think what we're seeing now in in this cycle, there are more and more latinos that they're changing their views on. Some of them they are like, k, we do need we do need to secure border order on that. It's not necessarily assumed that because you are a member of a demographic that, that IT has, it's all it's done necessarily consistent that it's going to be strong blue kinds .

of but we all want safety, right? We all want safety. We all want to minimize crime.

One where everyone .

yeah so you want to secure border to keep criminals from coming over here. It's the major the major impediment.

of course, in and a secure border with more and more resources put on that and and that makes a but it's it's impossible to make sure that, of course, you're going to have members of the immigration community that are gone to commit kinds of terrible kinds of crimes and you're gone to see. And those are gonna talk about in the popular media as well as undeniable.

And I mean, they're incredibly tragic and it's it's it's a fact and that's actually the truth of the american story. Immigration made our nation, and there were hard truth. And we have a hard truth right now. And we need to have a secure border, and we have to find a way to celebrate our immigration. And in the kinds of what immigrations in the contributions to the meat to this nation, and also to weed out or to minimize the kinds of negative kinds of things and those kinds of resources, because we can't possibly support an unchecked kinds of those situation that we had. And I described that if you had three hundred thousand people showing up at the border, well, that's the side of pittsburgh. You know, in a month like where they are gone to go, you know, how are we're gonna give them an american dream already, because they are all going to need to certain kinds of resources and and that should never be controversial to say it's like we can't that's not sustainable and if like if we want for every immigrant of their american dream, it's impossible if it's if it's unchecked that and IT shouldn't controversial to to to anyone politically .

not just reasonable. You're so reasonable um what could be done and who do you think is going to do a Better job to uh, boost our economy?

Um well, I I think it's unenviable to and you know i'm certainly going to discount some of the the experience of some people that have been hit by eggs or other things inflation. But but right now the our economy right now it's it's really it's the world's envy throughout all those things by any metric.

It's our unemployment, uh, the stock market, uh, and you know the hundreds of thousands of new jobs that are being created through at all those things. And our our inflation now has been kind of ease back into the check, but it's undeniable that there was an incredible um uh in inflation that hit certain kinds of family's hard those things. And I think that the next kinds away, whether it's A I or those other kinds of innovations, whether that its its Green energy or those kinds of a thing, it's going to continue to to produce our, uh, our economy. What A I is a big fear.

right? Because A I is going to come with automation, and automation is going to come with removing.

That is a chAllenge on my walk here, but I didn't walk here, but I saw, I saw a way mo, a way mo drew by me. And there was unlike, there was no one in there, no one in there. There was no one in the car. The first time, yeah, that's the first time i've ever seen a car a and had literally no human was in that vehicle and I was like.

there's a bunch of them. We're on Austin and there was a traffic jam in Austin where they all got together a hand section and no one knew what to do with all the robots were just like clogging up this intersection.

Yeah, like a lot of that came from pitch burgh too. And you would see those kinds of cars, but I always had a human in there, but that was the first time I saw like a robot car drive around in Austin. And yes, that creates there's a lot of this location that's possible.

That is the beginning. It's gonna be shipping. It's gonna be truckers. Mean, that was a big issue with the long shore and in the teamsters that we're going to go on strike again, please.

more. Thank you. welcome.

I mean, that was that was a big part of one of their demands was that they see what's going on in china. They see that they're using automation to completely control shipping yards. That is all done with machines and computers now. And this is going to display a lot of people.

This is something that Andrew yang talked about in depth when he was running for president because he was talking about the need for some kind of universal basic income to provide people with, you know, money and food and housing, because jobs are gonna nonexistent in a lot of different sectors, a lot of different markets, a lot of different things that have traditionally been done by people specifically driving. Driving is gonna a gigantic one. It's all going to be done by computers.

yeah. Well, I mean, a universal guaranteed income, i'm not sure I don't know because you're gonna have to have it's a lot of resources to provide a lot of that and and that creates all kinds of other issues and dynamic. But i'm not afraid of i'm not afraid of technology, but it's also acknowledging that there are gonna kinds of changes in those things.

And and i'm a big believer in technology takes us into a more productive kinds of economy and they're going to help solve some of the chAllenges that we have in our society um for those kinds of things. But I think we have to fine the perfect baLance that we don't stifle innovation. But we also but we also have to remember that there are going to be people that might be left behind that they're gonna struggle.

I mean, hey, I was mayor for thirteen days and I live in a community that was left behind by some of those things. And now the steel workers, the steel workers, I live across the street from the steel mom. And then IT was announced that nepal was buying us. steel.

And basically all those steel workers, they were done, you they used deference m saying, well, we're gonna our current label to me, labor deals with that a ufos m saying, as soon as that's up, you're done right and then that's going to be, uh, thousands of of union jobs. And if you think it's going to be easy for those men and women to pull down six figures or those kinds of an income, it's like, you know how how insensitive to say, well, hey, learn coding, whatever it's like. Hey, it's no, it's not coatings.

Useless anyway, when A I learning to code gonna useless.

Yes, exactly. That's how quickly things change. You change like it's basically kind of like a fuck you like good luck kind of think.

well, such it's a dumb fuck you too because even when they said learn to code like that was like saying I could learn to five.

i'm not going to learn.

But here's the thing, even if you did, that's how quickly things change. Even if you did, now they're telling kids learning coding in universities is not necessarily going to be a pathway to a job because all coatings is gonna done by artificial intelligence.

Yeah well, but but you know, I they never even told us that they were gona sell that and then I A staffer sent me a picture on c nanc that there they're selling ust and like, fuck that and so I just went up on my roof and I had a video saying, hey, I promise I going to do anything I can to damp that up. And it's like, that's what we did, and we work with the White house.

And then suddenly all of that I jambed up, and suddenly i'm so surprised, wink on wink. But new pond found extra billions of dollars to make the kinds of upgrades to secure us a future for those facilities in the mind valley. And and to me, it's about following the union way of life.

You know, to me, steal is national security. And to me, if you turn your bank on the working uh union families, I mean that it's like this. It's those are really hard to replace those things.

Um and so for me, two things are true. At the same time, you know that our economy has evolved. But when we have an opportunity to stand for the union way of life and we can't ever just out out source you, our steel industry like that, I refused to do that. So and that's why we're in that situation right now that it's like, hey, it's like that's what's true about some of these industries.

One of the things that I was reading that was really crazy, and I loved you to find out how much of this is accurate. jammy. One things.

This guy was explaining how scrap metal in the united states, the ship to china, where they make things with IT, instead of making things here, because, and then we buy what they make with our scrap metal, which seems to me kind of insane. The date of american manufacturing is a significant problem that we faced. And IT was really highlighted during covet, right, where there wasn't ships coming in because everything was kind of locked down for a while. And people realized, like, hey, so much of what we need, particularly computer chips and medicine, so much of what we need is being made overseas.

I agree. And then that's why congress came together and president van, the whole chips, the whole chips legislation. And it's like we got to make our we got to make shit in america, right? And it's like, of course, the future is in those kinds of industries and those things.

So we got a, we have to protect the american economy for that thing. And that's why that's a bipartisan kinds of of of a push for that and the and COVID that relieved a lot of vulnerable ulna abilities. It's like where a lot of these things come from or so but but going going forward on that, it's like we can never just surrender that, uh, american manufacturing we had can assume and we can allow that to turn completely outsource.

No, that would be horrible and that would be nice to bring things back. And also, you know, what things we've been discussing a lot is that so many of the things that we need today, like particularly phones, are being made in an unethical way, like where we would never allow the working conditions that exists in these factories overseas, where american corporations are having their products made in a way that you would never legally be able to do in america. And yet they're doing this just to make more money.

And that, well, I mean, let's also talk about rare, really rare, rare earth mineral stuff. The chinese have strategically just snapped up at the markets. I mean, that's really that's a significant security issue.

We are going to have to we're going to have to dress that. And thanks, thankful. Ly, we have identified of some large deposits. I think IT was nevada, but but rare earth kinds of minerals and means a serious security issue because the new economy and a lot of the new technology is going to depend on those kinds of, incredibly, I think, a lot of kinds of minerals that some people have never even heard of in your life have no idea what that even why that's important.

right? In an oil as well. I mean, we have significant oil reserves in the united states.

Apparently we have more oil than other countries do. It's just a matter of accessing IT. So are you in favor of drilling for oil and fracking and all .

these different things to hundred percent and and that that's what's also true is especially what happened after after russia invaded and IT was very clear that europe head have russians, but kind of by the shorter hairs that a lot of their europe was, they were dependent on some of the russian gas. That's a fact too. And you know it's also it's also what's true is that fossil fuels are part of our energy stack.

Our energy has to evolve, whether that's hydrant, en or nuclear. Now, even nuclear. That conversations.

Reemerging, I grew up in south pennsylvania. Ia, maybe you've heard of three island, three years I had to evacuate. When that happened, I was really, yeah, I had to evacuate.

They have turned. We never returned. Mean, that was really tense. Now they're reopening that because microbicides soft is going to buy the electricity because now that's going to be nuclear. To run the data centers in those things is an important conversation.

So if you are committed and I think it's an I do believe that you really have to make sure that nuclear is part of that conversation too because you know zero, zero kinds of emissions and that's dependable kinds of energy that doesn't depend on the wind or the sun. But ironically, some people pretend that um you have to have a conversation. So but you ever see able future that fossil fuels are part of our stack.

And for me, uh, energy security is is very important. Um no national security. I mean like if we can if we can power our economy, uh, then it's it's a significant risk for economy in our american way.

And and know now we I think we are a net exporter of energy. So I think that's that's a good thing. I think that's a great way to be. And it's being honest about that and the path forward. And and I think everything has to be on the table because we have to have a portfolio that produces the the kinds of energy that we're going to need to power our economy.

Another significant issue that a lot of people are concerned about is government interference. In a online sense. The ship and what what was exposed during the twitter files that the FBI had contacted the original owners of twitter and prevented them or instructed them that the honey and laptop was russian disinformation, was trying to get certain accounts band that we're talking about, covet vaccines and the dangers of side effects, and what the actual research was showing, and that this was a significant interference in the first amendment.

And that these CoOperations that we're running, the social media companies, were being directly influenced by the federal government, and they were using this power to silence people from speaking out against certain things. This is, this is very concerning to a lot of people. This idea that the government would infringe on our ability to be whistleblowers, to expose issues that have been hidden from american people because of greed and money and politics, what are your thoughts on?

Well, of course, I mean, i'm A i'm A A free speech kind of person and and I I think social media is it's it's kind of difficult to control there.

There's a difference between misinformation or just outright lying um or it's an agenda of a foreign ation that's trying to to show all these grounds of sentiments and those kinds of of of of things and and it's kind of difficult to to police all those things and it's a lot of it's an ongoing kind of of of a situation. So um but i'm always going to try to air on the side of free speech. And then there's incredibly more and more kinds of platforms, just like one i'm on right now talking about these kinds of things.

And i'm not clutching my perl if there's having conversations that I may or may not agree or disagree on what's being talked about this. But I think people are also there's also a level of responsibility to be to discern what you hearing. It's like I think that's true or I think that's trash or it's like those kinds of thing.

And just because always asking myself and what i'm read, is that just true? Or is there perspective where is IT coming from which behind those kinds of a thing? So I mean, it's it's a difficult kinds of what's the appropriate kind of baLance, but it's absolutely uh, it's also effect that there are are bad actors behind some of those kinds of conversations or some of those kinds of this information as well too. And absolutely incitement. Incitement is not free speech and encouraging people for for violence or those kinds of the thing.

I I mean, kind of it's dangerous a and but what the fear is that the government was interfering when you had fifty one former intelligence agents that were testifying, that the hand biden laptop was rushing disinformation when IT seems pretty clear that they knew that to not be true and that twitter actually listen to these people and they did block that and they did probably have a significant impact on the .

twenty twenty election yeah well the other thing that had a significant impact was in twenty twenty um I forget his his neighbor he had investigate the clinton about the east yeah like know two weeks that that was like the ultimate surprise is I deniable that had a significant impact .

does a twenty .

sixteen and IT absolutely lutely did as well too. So I mean, that's why there's both sides and they have agendas to suppress some kinds of a thing or to to bring something to the front. And it's not deniable that I can have an impact on that as well.

So I never went down either of those a rabbit holes, whether IT was the clinton emails or if I was the hunter bines kind of of laptop um so but IT hasn't really changed overall. The dynamic that in our cycles the last three cycles is greatly it's about for me, it's about a referendum on what we want a vision for america. Is that a trump kinds of a of a vision or do we have an alternative? And i've always been very clear it's going to be incredibly close and it's going to be incredibly, at times, very divisive.

And here we are now, and it's still back to a coin toss. And i've always predicted that I would be even back to twenty sixteen because we're really going to have a lot settled up before this election. It's going to take amErica in a very too stark and distinctive kinds of directions.

What do you think about elon mosque's idea of creating a government efficiency agency?

Well, I I flagged um when must when muscovite volte, I flagged that anyone can look online. I can say that it's like well, in endorsements, surreal acy doesn't really mount for much IT doesn't count for much a lot and sometimes but but I mean, that was that was a significant and he's getting involved and he's showing up at those kinds of events. I mean, in some sense, i've said this publicly that he's even a bigger kinds of star that trump can be. And for some people in pensylvania, like that's tony stark where he is involved and undeniably kinds of of important things like space ex or he is one of the original um uh charter using on the charter of open I A H use that too. So I mean that's that's significant and and I don't want agree with some of his some of his use and politics, but it's undeniable that he can move the needle in some sense of of convinced some people that is like, hey, if he says that he's the right choice for presidents, that's that's a that's going to resonate in some in some circles in pencil, ana. And have i've warned that um and acknowledging IT, it's just like that it's just like K I know people and they admire him and you may not agree with his politics but he really is it's impossible to ignore that he is going to have a level of of of an impact on that.

You but what do you think about the idea of trying to make the government more efficient and that this hasn't .

been audited before? Of course, I i'm open to any kinds of ideas. And all those kinds of a thing on all of that one side doesn't have a monopoly on good ideas or important kinds of issues that that that are matter to them.

So and and it's like the choices in the kinds of things and how he's chose to participate, especially in very personally in pencil anian. And like here's where we are. That's part of the dynamic here you calling IT out and acknowledging that i'm not moving against that. I'm not criticizing whatever, just like, hey, it's happening. H so uh, and that I think that's part of why things continue to tighter and and that that's kind of here where we are.

I think what a lot of people are excited about with trump is this possibility of change, that the elon mosque dish is one of R F K. juniors. Another one, the idea of making a amErica healthy again, removing additives from foods that have shown to be toxic.

There are illegal in other countries. I mean, this is, I think, a significant issue that shouldn't be a partisan issue. There should be something that we all should be concerned with. Why do we have ingredients in our food that is illegal in a bunch of european countries? Because they found out that these things are danger.

I agree. You know, go to mcDonald, like the U. K.

The french fries has three and grants potato or sault. And I think maybe oil. yeah.

And look at, look at what's in amErica cide on that. It's much different. I support that. But if anything about anything more of, and I know I know your city that we're in now, Austin has an amazing food kinds of scene and and again, you know, if anything, more of the currency, more liberal site were on part of the whole organic kinds of a thing and more impurity and things. I don't think that's an issue.

And I honestly, I don't think that that's going to be the kind of mental that somebody like you r fk junior, that's not his. So I think having a more pure and safe and abundant kinds of food in in our country, I absolutely support that. And i'm selective what I what I feed, I feed my children.

I mean, when we were know when I was a kid, I was like velvet. No, like, hey, now we have real cheese. Or did you have like active cooler, like that Green, like ana freezes, kind of color of a high sea, and some of the kinds of foods that that we had when I was a kid? Um there would be unthinkable.

Kinds are now. And I think I think the quality of our food and and kinds of more in pure, I think that's that's been an ongoing conversation. Uh and organic can become the latest IT can be IT can be too expensive.

And and I fully support making IT more and more um more more pure and more safe on that more. And I would absolutely I would celebrate if if I could buy the same french fries that you get in the U. K. That I think that if you don't need more than three medium.

I have a body mine who lives in australia and he came over to amErica and he he loves quarter pounders in australia because he said quarter pounders in australia it's grasped meat that's just fried with cheese and a bun and he said he got a quarter pounder to over here is like, what fuck is this? He tastes like shed IT was just IT was blind and I didn't you .

know what they call IT .

in australia but he said it's grasped beef you get like they're not even feeding their cows grain .

well know a lot of the the the grasped beef in in our nation are coming from australia I mean, crazy yeah that's that's effect and i'm very pro pro american range.

Well, not only that, it's really fucked up because you could make IT a product of amErica if you butcher IT here. So if you import cattle from australia, say, and then you bring IT to amErica and then you cut IT up and then package IT, because you've cut IT up in package that is now a product of america. So you can write that on the label.

Know I had a wilderness is who runs White doc pastors, which is a regenerate farm. This guy spent twenty years and untold dollars changing an industrial farm that his family had and turning IT into a regenerate farm, and in doing so provided people with A A much more natural and healthy choice. And he's also done a great job of exposing these practices.

Yeah, I mean, grass, grass, a fed beef. I mean, I think that I think that's very in some sense, I mean that that that absolutely supports a Better health. I mean, I was, I followed before, even appeared on on your pocket.

Shawn Baker, yeah, you like carnivore and you even those kinds of insight helped me personally, allowed me to kind of drop some drops and wait through all those things and know it's like that's an important conversation too it's like, you know and but but democrats, some people think they were declared to war on on hamburger and beef. But we we're definitely not going to lose that. They are going going to lose that if if that really becomes part of that. And and I I don't .

think that's democrats. I think that's very wealthy people that have a financial interest in feeding people. Fake me, that's what I think IT is. And I think .

theyve capture, if I said IT, IT paints me to agree with with the descending st know because they passed the ban in that in florida. IT paints me to agree with them. But it's like, I mean, I would never feed, I would never feed that slap to this on my kids when you can buy you know quality american grass fed american beef like I mean, that's that's what I purchased that I use that at costco. I buy the three pack of IT and and and I my my oldest son, he knows how to. To prepare like his own rib and he's makes that a part of like A I think it's like a healthy kinds of A A diet。

Yeah for sure. Um what other issues do you think we should discussed for? Wrap this up as anything else. Assign your mind that do you think is significant that needs to be discussed.

Oh, before you wrap up, uh, uh, well, I think we have a situation, whether it's the situation on on, on israel or those, there's there's a lot happening about the of the election right now. But but it's really a strange place in our nation now. But I promise you, it's gone to be depending on whenever people hear this conversation, our world is going to be about to change or maybe has a changed.

And so I just hope though, I just hope though that we're going to be able to respond in away for an order kinds of transfer of power, and we are going to be heading into a more peaceful and a more productive and collaborative kind of direction throughout that. But we're an incredibly divisible place right now. Um and um I just want to be part of a conversation to make sure that that we can be more constructive. But it's right now, we're kind of it's it's a difficult place right now and we're coming down to a coin toss election yeah agree.

I hope we can all relax and work together CoOperatively. yeah. Well, listen, mt, thank you for being here.

I really appreciate that. Thank you for taking the time to come in and talk. It's been great to get to know you and have a conversation with you.

Hey, hey, thank you for as a fan. It's great to kind of visit. And so thanks for having me.

So my pleasure, best love you. Thank you. All right, my body.