Trump’s D.C. Takeover and Obama Love Queries With Meghan McCain
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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent, and this is...

Somebody's got to win. Washington, D.C. feels very different. Donald Trump has rocked the town in just 24 hours. I think you could see from his WWE-style event where he literally signed off executive orders and then threw the pens into the crowd. These executive orders were just as shocking as like a slam on the floor. Think about it. The commutations of the January 6th insurrectionists, the sweeping pardons, the attempt to revoke birthright citizenship.

a key part of our constitution that will probably be upheld in the courts. Not just that, the massive immigration plans,

the decision not to uphold the TikTok ban, among so many other things that Donald Trump has tried to push through. And why not? He's at the height of his power. At least that's what I'm sure he's thinking. He probably thinks he needs to do it right now because governing is not easy. And you can get away with a lot in the beginning when you're in the honeymoon stage. You've got a lot of political will. But let's see in a month or two from now if Donald Trump can really pull this all off. So maybe that's why we have the shock and awe and the fire and fury like you saw yesterday.

Yesterday. So on this show, I break it all down with Meghan McCain, who has her own show, Citizen McCain. It's a collaboration. We talk about all of that and some of the juicy gossip, like who wasn't at the inauguration, Michelle Obama, and why. We talk about what our sources say about America's sweetheart and how their marriage is doing. We get into all of that and more and how your life will change in the new MAGA administration. MAGA on steroids. Donald Trump is back.

I'm so excited to be here with one of my favorite people, Tara Palmieri, who is Puck's senior political correspondent and my good friend. Tara, I'm really excited you're here, but I have a lot to gossip with you about. We have a lot to go over. It's the day after Inauguration Day. But before we

we start? Because this is a fun show. There was a really delicious piece of gossip that came from the Spectator's Cockburn Gossip Call. I just want to read this to you because it's so good. Colorado Congresswoman Lauren Boebert, who spent a decent chunk of Saturday's America First Policy Institute Ball trying to integrate herself with Susie Wiles. One small problem, she wasn't talking to Wiles, just a woman from the Midwest who looks slightly like her.

That's a great sighting. Oh my God. I actually had a Boebert sighting this weekend at the Turning Point Ball. I didn't even recognize her. She looked different. Maybe because she was wearing a gown, but she was mixing in the VIP section, which I was also surprised to see her in. But yeah, that sounds very, very Boebert. It should be like a noun. There's something about the spectacle of like, first of all, did you go to any of the events? Yes.

Sadly, the only one I could get to was the turning point ball because I was like intentional about it. Otherwise, it was impossible to get around the city. It was just gridlock. It was annoying. I ended up eating dinner in a bar by myself last night because I couldn't even get to the parties I wanted to get to. It was incredibly frustrating. And it was so cold. And like the drivers would drop you off five blocks away and you'd be in heels and you're like, okay, this isn't worth it. It was kind of a shit show. And I think an

Inaugurations are great if you're being shuttled around by a fleet of protective secret service. But if you're just like among the minions and Ubers, you're pretty much effed. Yeah. So that was like sort of the consensus from a lot of my friends who went is that first of all, for anyone who is in D.C., it is a

absolute tundra here. I think it's the coldest I've ever been in my life. I'm not from Arizona, so put that in. It's so cold that it's not safe to go outside. I was imagining these women in their heels and whatever, but a bunch of my friends were just saying they were freezing, that they couldn't find bathrooms. I guess it's like the main ball. There was the starlight ball, which I guess was the big one at the end, that there was an hour-

wait for the bathroom and it was outside in the cold. Oh, they're a mess. You have to line up to get inside. And then when we left one of the balls, the turning point ball, there was armory outside of it. And they were like, yeah, you can't drive through to get into the city. I don't know why anyone would stay in the city. Like, I think once you're in the city, you have to stay. It was such a mess. And then the guy with, you know, the Secret Service, I mean, they're doing their job. They're like, ladies, you're free to walk five blocks or a mile to your hotel. And it's like, oh,

I actually took my shoe off and I'm like, would you walk in this? And he was like, yeah, no. So I don't know if that's like... I think it's probably all inaugurations are like that. But I got invited to a few parties and I didn't go to any. A, because obviously like I just still feel weird like celebrating Trump given my personal history with him. And B, like...

I'm not trying to brag here, Tara, but I've been to some pretty cool parties in my life. I've seen Lady Gaga perform privately. There's something about waiting an hour in the cold...

Like in a gown that sounds like hell. Yeah, there was not a single event there that would match, you know, Lady Gaga. You know, I was a page six reporter at one time. So I do know what it's like to go to those types of parties. But this for me was more about work and kind of observing the new zoo, the new animals that have come back. Well, some of them old. For example, I was at the Turning Point Ball, obviously the only one I could...

actually maneuver into after I crossed a highway to get into it. But like Jordan Peterson was there, Megyn Kelly, Ben Shapiro, a number of people who were anti-Trump and they're now like huge influencers on the right who are now, you know, celebrating his inauguration. It was just such a big shift.

And it was really the podcasters who were the stars of the show. Like nobody was talking to Kash Patel. Usually at a party like that, you would go up to the future attorney general, right? It just felt like it was all about the podcast stars, the MAGA influencers. And it was fine. It's so weird that like Trump is obsessed with the village people, like literally the gayest band of all time, but they performed. And it was pretty funny to watch Don Jr. dancing with them.

and JD Vance. What if I'm wearing assless chaps? Like I saw in the video clip and I was just like, it's so funny. It's like bondage assless chaps. I don't think I would see at a gay bar. I would, you know, great, whatever. But you're right. It is like the gayest. If someone's like, what's the gayest? It's like the Scissor Sisters and the Village People are like the two gayest things I can come up with in music. Totally, totally. And they just so happen to be, it just happens to be Trump's famous favorite band. So yeah, it was very bizarre. Kid Rock was up there.

Is he seeing Lily Ray Cyrus making an ass out of him? That was horrible. That was painful to watch. That great trainer. It's just a horrible trainer. He looks insane. And like, first of all, the music cut completely. And at one point he was like, mic check, mic check in the middle of the performance. It was like, what? What?

It was so bad. But I do want to ask you though, because you're like, you know, you're obviously covering this for Puck and you are in DC and around all this. So I was telling a friend of mine, she was like, what's the vibe there? And I was like, MAGA on acid. And the way I can describe it is this is niche. So just like, bear with me. But anyone who has ever seen like Back to the Future, there's a part in Back to the Future where like he goes on the wrong timeline and he ends up in

Biff Land and Biff is like the bully in the movie and it's Biff is everywhere it's like on every building everybody's wearing like Biff t-shirts whatever and I'm like this feels like the most like to not like Trump to not be like Trump is first of all I've seen people comparing him to Jesus Christ coming back that he literally almost died for our sins because he was shot. You said that in

himself. I was saved to save you, America. Yes. It's like, I don't even know how to describe it. It's like cults of personality is doing, is not even doing it right. Like in the, it is like, oh, the Obama era fever pitch cults of personality. And then, and then add neon to it. Like, I can't explain it. And because there's also fear, there's fear on top.

So explain to me, like, first, can this last? This level of popularity? And we have polling out already that it's the highest level of his popularity ever in polling so far. And I really do feel like I am in Trump land. Like, I

I no longer live in the United States of America. I live in Trump's America, which I wasn't expecting quite that. And even for me, where I'm like, well, I have questions about these tech bros and I have questions about TikTok and China's influence. I mean, it's like, how dare you? Trump's the greatest. He's the king of everything. Shut the fuck up. Trump knows what he's doing and he's the greatest and he almost died to save America. And he's basically Jesus. So shut the fuck up, Megan.

That is basically the energy I'm feeling right now. I'm sorry I said it twice, but I want your opinion on this. You're absolutely right. There are no dissenters. They're at the top of the game right now. But it's really easy during the transition when you're not actually governing to build a lot of hype. And if you win the popular vote as a Republican, that's a pretty big deal, obviously. And I just think Trump knows he's at the height of his power and all the people around him are feeling that and they're getting off on all of that.

And they're kind of swaying around the kind of, I guess you could say, mandate they have or the goodwill. But truly what's going to happen is like, you're going to have to actually govern. And that's when you lose that goodwill. That's when you lose the popularity. Like...

Like, for example, if the fires had happened on Trump's watch and the response was really terrible by the federal government or FEMA, that would be on him. You know what I mean? Does he pass his big, beautiful bill? What does it look like to actually govern? I know that he's about to go like it's very popular right now to deport. Right.

There's a huge anti-immigration sentiment in more than 50% of the country, clearly. But what does it look like when the media is watching ICE officers breaking up families and you see kids crying and the media is just not good? You know what I mean? It's a different thing to deport people who are already in detention camps and getting them out of the country, right? But when you're doing raids that involve families and stuff like that, it's in the media, it just might not play that well. Public sentiment is never steady. It will never...

it will not always be 100% pro-Trump all the time. He has to deliver on his promises. And it's really easy day one. And he's producing the whole thing like perfectly, you know, literally doing this executive orders in front of a crowd, like almost like WWE style crowd. And then just like throwing the pens out. And then even when he was in the Oval doing some more executive orders, he was literally

telling the cameras how to shoot them. It was like he was producing it all. He knows what he's doing. It's something Biden never did. But again, like everyone has their honeymoon and we're in the honeymoon period right now. And, you know, MAG has come back with a vengeance. And I think that's the only difference is like

The resistance is so quiet, and that is shocking to me. You really aren't hearing much from the left at all. Their voices are really quiet, and I wonder if it's because they're afraid of Trump going after them, like personally targeting them, prosecuting them. Their leaders are quiet. Hakeem Jeffrey is quiet. Chuck Schumer is quiet. The only person who really is... AOC is not. I'll give her that. Exactly. So I...

I think she might be the future. I mean, she literally said, I won't go to the inauguration because I don't celebrate rapists. She's the only one willing to go for the jugular. And I and there's no one else in the party that will. So I think she might rise up like a phoenix, honestly, because there's no one else that Democrats even know that his policies are popular. Like the Lake and Riley bill is about to pass in a bipartisan way. We're in a

a weird time, Megan, but I don't think it lasts forever. Also, all these like MAGA podcasters that have always loved Trump, who were skeptical of Trump, now are MAGA and love Trump. Let's see how it goes. It's very different to be in power. It's very easy to say, I'm going to stop. I'm going to lower grocery prices. Can you actually do it? It's very easy to say, I'm going to stop inflation. Can you actually do that? The rubber's going to hit the road soon. So I think they should enjoy their mandate now. And I think Trump knows that. And that's why he's bold

dozing in and just creating the perception of action, the rhetorical flourishes, the executive orders, shock and awe. Because I say by late summer, early fall, and when he's trying to pass a bill and people start saying, hey, why doesn't it feel any different than the way it did under Biden? Things are going to be different.

Also, who knows how messy the tariff stuff gets? Yeah, I agree with that. And I also, but I do want to give like MAGA credit that they should take their celebratory victory lap right now because they certainly have earned it. But what I was thinking yesterday, I, I yesterday when, when the transition of power was happening and Biden was like getting on his helicopter and then I saw on my transom that he was pardoning his family members and he had pardoned Dr. Fauci. I have very strong feelings about Dr. Fauci. I think he is like,

I mean, I know you can think you actually are a journalist. You don't have to tell me what you think, but I just, I would like answers for what I think is like criminal behavior that he was culpable in. And I really hate him. He's like a person I would have a very hard time like being in a room with, but that's a whole other thing. I was also pregnant during COVID.

I was furious that he pardoned Fauci, furious that he pardoned the rest of his family members, furious that he put all these pardons at the literally 20 minutes left of his presidency. And I literally texted my friend, can he just get out of here? Can he just leave and stop doing damage? And it reminded me just like,

how much I hated the Biden years, how much I grew to really, you know, hate, hate is a strong word, but like just find him sort of this like pathetic historical figure. How did he, what's your take on the, the pardons, last minute pardons? And I think he's going to be seen as the worst president since Carter. I think he's the worst president of modern, modern generations. What is your take just covering him the past four years and then this last day?

I mean, yeah, it's a really sad way to go out. 15 minutes before the inauguration, you pardon the rest of your family when there's been a narrative for the past, I don't know, four years by the Republicans that it's a Biden crime family. That certainly doesn't help that. Now, how much of it is true? His entire family is still lobbyists that have essentially rotated around him, the son, the star, who has been in public service forever. So there's like the perception of grift, obviously, and

Why did he pick the date January 1, 2014 for when the pardons should start to, you know, the future? It's unclear. Now, I know he's trying to protect his family and Trump has vowed justice from day one. I think Trump's just really pissed off right now after having dealt with, you know, whatever, was it 94 indictments or something like that? You know, being a convicted felon and he's out for blood. And so I think...

Biden should be worried. All those people that were pardoned should be worried because Trump's going to have a loyalist in the DOJ, Pam Bondi, a guy with an enemies list, Kash Patel, going to the FBI. So it makes sense. But does it help his legacy, which was already like floundering? No. I mean, Biden did all the things he said he wouldn't do. Biden was very much like Trump in a lot of ways. Actually, someone alerted me to this. I actually scooped this back in like

2022 that Trump considered giving a blanket pardon to all the January 6th rioters. Oh my God, I almost used the word hostages after yesterday. Oh my God, he's infecting my brain. That was absurd the way he called them hostages in front of the actual hostages from Israel. Okay. Okay.

But back to where we were going, you know, he could have pardoned the January 6th rioters, insurrectionists before he left office. He could have pre-pardoned himself and his family and he didn't do it. He was at such a low point politically. But I think the fact that he's coming in right now and doing it off the top day one, just like with

reckless abandonment almost just shows how powerful he thinks he is. But he's very much aware that that power does not stay forever. Like, you know, that political goodwill does not last forever. And Biden's limping off. I mean, God, it must've been hard for him to sit there and just like,

listen to Trump say, like, this is a wasteland and I'm about to save you from it. Trump's made a lot of really big promises. So we'll see if he can come through. But yeah, Biden was definitely a disappointment. He was supposed to be the one who saved us from fascism, that democracy was on the line, the threat of retribution. And now he's gone and everybody else is like, OK, who is this guy? He's

Can I ask you about the tech bros of it all? You see in tech Silicon Valley, it's all one now. I was actually kind of shocked to see just like Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, obviously Elon Musk at the inauguration and also in the chapel service, like very intimate thing to be a part of. They were sitting in front of cabinet officials.

officials. They were right behind the family. That just shows how prominent they are. And these are people that, like Zuckerberg, Trump said should go to jail. What do you think this looks like? Because there's Maggie Haberman from the New York Times reported that Elon Musk is getting an office in the White House and will literally be in the White House day to day. That makes me uncomfortable for a lot of different reasons, but this is not my rodeo. What

what, what is, I, this is very like simple, but what is happening? Uh, is it just, I don't really understand like their role. Is it just that like Silicon Valley billionaires, I mean, I hate the word oligarch, but it really does feel like billionaire oligarchs coming into our government in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I think it's totally fair. I mean, someone I was talking to on K street said Elon Musk's role is so strange. It's almost like at

at the level of a spouse, like a powerful spouse, like Nancy Reagan. You can't really, he's not going anywhere. He's the richest man in the world. He gave him $150 million over six months. That's unheard of to create a ground game that would help him win. And he actually showed that he had some political aptitude by realizing that there was, that there were these guys out there like him, these tech bros, these young, I guess you could say like in cell are

me as the Democrats call them, or, you know, these young guys, Gen Z kids that were pro-Trump, liked his bravado.

brand of masculinity. So they owe him a lot. Trump's just impressed with him because of what he's built. I think Elon Musk wants to be a trillionaire. I think he likes having a best friend in Donald Trump. And yeah, proximity to power. Like you need an office in the White House if you want to keep whispering in Trump's ear all day long. There was a reason why I got a cabana at Mar-a-Lago and bought a, you know, a property in Palm Beach. Apparently he's looking at the Line Hotel in D.C. actually to possibly purchase something.

It's like a, it's a partner of the Soho house. Hotel. Yeah. I mean, it's,

Elon Musk. And it's interesting because it's in an old church and it's really cool. It's got a hip vibe to it. And it's in Adams Morgan, which isn't your traditional hangout of the powerful. Usually they go to the Cosmos Club or the Metropolitan Club. But I think that's the influx of the Silicon Valley bros. Elon Musk wears a t-shirt all the time. He's not your typical Politico. He's got a different feel and vibe. Can we talk about the H1B's

piece of, I really don't pay attention to this. Vivek Ramaswamy on like Christmas Eve or the day after Christmas, I don't remember, put out a series of very strange tweets that I actually found offensive. And I would like to state that my sister is adopted from Bangladesh. I have, I love Bangladesh.

Indian immigrants, I have no problem. This is not about that. But in his long series of tweets, and go look it up, there was a lot of them. He basically said that poor white people can't be helped and they're too stupid to get tech jobs. That we can't, young white families, especially me as a mom, he was like, white parents just can't raise the same type of kids that immigrant families can. And then he was like, and in small part because you let them have sleepovers and they're playing sports.

It was really poorly executed at a huge backlash online. And now Vivek Ramaswamy is no longer a part of Doge. It's being reported everywhere that Elon Musk was like, get the hell out of DC and MAGA is over it. And that Vivek Ramaswamy is on his way back to Ohio to attempt to run for governor. I'm going to make a prediction that he's going to lose. Uh, Ohio is a very, maybe one of the few last non MAGA Republican States in America. Um, very traditionalist Republicans there. Um,

what do you think happens to Vivek? And are you surprised again, given that argument that he, he lost it and, uh,

that he's like out of DC. Well, it's interesting that you brought that up because I actually was the first to report that Vivek was being iced out last week. Yes, in pocket. No, it's okay. You know what? I didn't make it into a big story. I just had a few paragraphs about what happened. So yeah, it wasn't just that. Vivek has a personality that wears on people. The guy won 1% of the vote in the primary. Like, let's not forget that. He also didn't donate to Donald Trump. Donald Trump

cares about how much money you give him. He's a very transactional person. He jumped into that H-1B fight with Musk, the fight that Musk said he will take to the death. Musk also made a lot of comments insulting Americans, saying that they're too dumb for the kind of jobs that foreign workers can do. But then he went a little further and a little weirder

and said, you know, Americans, he compared it to like Saved by the Bell and said that Americans favor the jock, you know, like Zach Morris and Kelly, the cheerleader over Screech the nerd. And like, does he understand the guy he's working for? Trump's the jock. He married the cheerleader, Melania. Yeah.

you don't understand the culture war you're in right now. Yes, there are like a number of like kind of incel Gen Z dudes that are into nerdy Elon crypto stuff, but they ultimately are attaching to his brand of masculinity and the fact that he has like 18 children with three women. They see that as a power of strength. They don't want to be Screech, even if they are Screech. You know what I mean? And ever since then, the VEGA has gone quiet. And also, isn't it a

a little weird to have a department of government efficiency that's run by two people. Shouldn't it be run by one person if it's really going to be efficient? And so there's like kind of a joke going on around town that like Mark Caputo mentioned this on my show yesterday that like to get something cut from a bill is to have it dozed. Like if they find something that they don't like, they're like, oh, it's been dozed. So people are now saying Vivek's been dozed himself. But yeah, it's not really surprising. Like, could you imagine having to work with him and

I cannot stand Vivek. I thought he was like a huckster and like a snake oil salesman. And I also have this thing where I like just don't trust people who 30 seconds ago were progressive liberals and then all of a sudden are maggots in a period of like four months. I get that people can change their views, whatever. But I always thought I was like, he's the most annoying, like just he's like this...

I cannot, he's arguably my least favorite MAGA figure other than like Carrie Lake. So I'm happy to see his ass railroaded out even before like the inauguration happened. Do you think he's pissed? You know, what happens to him? Is he just going to like sort of fade away to Newsmax like the rest of them? I don't think it matters. Like sure, maybe he'll have a show. I think

the interesting thing is like that Elon Musk can continue to make mistakes politically and be a proponent of H-1B visas, which like everyone in MAGA world and like the white working class see as like a Trojan horse for cheap labor. And he can like be dismissive of the staff and just like start campaigns online that are contradictory to Trump's agenda and still be able to stick around. And like that's going to be a huge issue for his staff. So like while Susie Wiles may say, no drama, no drama, no drama.

and I'm going to keep everyone in line. What do you do when you've got a trillionaire that you can't keep in line? And it's kind of interesting already to hear Elon Musk be like, remember when they said, we are going to cut $2 trillion from the deficit by July 4th, 2025, I believe, right? Now he's saying it's going to be more like $1 trillion. You know, I wonder what they're doing already. I heard it's like a bunch of young private equity bros that they've sort of assigned to committees, and those are the ones that are getting involved. Right?

Washington's a weird place. It's very Byzantine. A lot of people think, you know, Elon's kind of a neophyte and he can hire lobbyists and maybe who knows, does he need lobbyists? Not really like lobbyists need him because he's at the center of power, but he certainly needs like a guide. He needs to understand how things work because he's losing a lot of these bites, but maybe he doesn't care about losing. He doesn't really seem to like keep, he doesn't keep his attention span for very long. And his whole idea of working and creating things is to break it

and then fix it in a way that it can't be broken again. But can you do that in politics? That's unclear. There's also... The thing I was interested in is even yesterday, Senator Tom Cotton was tweeting about how he's against taking back the TikTok ban, that he wanted TikTok to be banned and that it's an agent of DCP to spy on us and whatever. And

you know, even his dissenting opinion on TikTok, I was like, it's going to be interesting when the rubber hits the road and some of these like highly establishment old guard Republicans who are still in positions of power. They're not as powerful as Elon Musk. They're still in positions of power where they can like stop, stop things from happening. I just will be curious because so much of DC is about relationships and lobbying and just like, screw you, I'm going to break it. And you're, you're a loser because you're a center from Arkansas. Like,

I just don't know. I don't know. I agree with you. Like, I just have a lot of questions to see how it plays out. Well, he couldn't win the fight to make Rick Scott the Senate majority leader. It's a private vote. And it turns out that's not what the Senate wants. I was surprised that they were willing to spend a million dollars to try to intimidate, you know, Joni Ernst and Susan Collins and all these people for Pete Hegseth to make sure that he's confirmed. I wonder how much of this is going to go on. I also think like a natural...

ally of Elon Musk as he goes around threatening on X, you know, threatening people who don't follow him or Trump's agenda, like a primary threat. He's going to need somebody like a political arm other than America PAC that can really help him with these primaries. And like, will it be the new like club for growth? And is it someone that he sort of partners up with like Chris LaCivita who wants to do this sort of political work on the outside? Yeah.

It's just a matter of how much does Elon Musk really want to invest in the political game? Also, for all those stockholders of Tesla, aren't you kind of concerned? Plus, he's tweeting 166 times per day or something crazy like that. How do you do all of it? I don't disagree. I have a friend of a friend who knows one of his baby mamas, and I feel like I know too much about him. Hello?

As it is. Whoa. We should have the baby mama on the show and just have her explain. How do you manage 17 kids? I only know like through, I know one and it's, I don't know her. My good friend knows her. So do that for whatever you will. I've had some gossip seep back to me.

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I do want to ask you about these confirmation hearings. You just brought up Pete Hegseth. It looks like he will get confirmed. RFK, Tulsi Gabbard, my friend, you know, she's my friend, and some of these other nominees, who do you think is going to have the most difficult fight? I still like, it's interesting to me that so much of MAGA is like rallying around RFK, who is arguably like the most pro-choice

politician I've ever like encountered in certainly in conservative circles, but like he's a very, he's very strong about it. My father-in-law who is very pro-life is very uncomfortable with it. And I'm sure there's a lot of other like traditional conservatives who are as well. Do you think there'll just be an easy road for everybody getting confirmed or what do you think? I don't think RFK is going to be a problem because of that, because he's already sort of turned, you know,

you know, like people are willing to accept a convert on pro-life issues. Also, you know, he really helped Trump deliver the independent vote. And so I think there is going to be a fight for him. Like Trump knows when he owes somebody something, you know, I know you're friends with Tulsi, but like, I think she's going to have a rough road. There's a lot of suspicion towards her for visiting Assad secretly. You know, there's just concerns that she's, you know, a foreign agent at the same time. She's also active duty. So like, it is hard to like

you know, reconcile those. But I think there is a lot of suspicion about her. And it's a really big job, Department of National Intelligence, not to say that she's not completely qualified or impressive as a human being, but intelligence is a precious part of our government infrastructure. And I could see like Mitch McConnell deciding he wants to like throw down YOLO on one nominee and it might be

Tulsi. Do you think they will sacrifice one person no matter what? Yeah. I mean, hard to say. I mean, you could argue that Matt Gaetz was a sacrificial lamb. Yeah.

But I mean, I think if it's going to be anyone, it's going to be Tulsi. Although Kash Patel, I mean, I don't know. How long do you think it takes? I was surprised they didn't get some of these hearings out before inauguration. They got Marco Rubio confirmed. He's, you know, he's been around a long time. He's a really nice man. He got 99 to zero. He got bipartisan support. He's a nice man. Yeah. He's probably the safest pick too for like

establishment Republicans. They probably feel good about him being there. So I don't think anyone was going to have a hard time with Marco. But I think Trump didn't have anyone confirmed at this point anyway. So... I think it's a really nice moment with Marco Rubio and Tammy Duckworth, if anyone wants to feel a little good about politics, where she was talking about how he really lobbied for her to be able to bring her child because she

down on the Senate floor to vote because I think she was like breastfeeding at the time and she was like, I've never forgotten it and how much you like support mothers and it was really nice. So I thought, I don't know, I like Marco Romeo too. Going forward, what do you think we can expect? I know that's a hard question because this is like, I feel like I'm already in sort of like another version of America 3 now. But

But do you, I mean, again, I feel like I'm in Trump land mania. Like it's just, I can't even explain the feeling. I don't know if you feel the same way. It's just like Trump everything all the time. Oh yeah. Think about this. The last inauguration, I don't think, I think he was in shock that he won, right? There were no parties around it. No corporate sponsors.

Everybody was horrified. Everyone, Republicans were horrified. Nobody knew what to do. This past weekend was a veritable bash. And like we haven't had a party probably like that in D.C. since Obama in 2008. Corporate sponsors were happy to be aligned with Trump after January 6th. They were like, what do we do? It's been such an about faith. And I think it's just because of his electoral win and the fear.

the fear of the wrath of Trump. And, you know, in a lot of ways, like Biden laid the groundwork for him to do whatever he wants in a lot of ways, questioning his own justice department, pardoning his family. And Trump probably is going to think he's got carte blanche with the rule of law. Like it was a bad day for justice yesterday, frankly. But what is it going to be like? I mean, it's going to be weird. It's going to be

You know, it's going to be like CPAC everywhere all the time. I don't know. It seems like that's the crowd because like last time you had New Yorkers, like the globalists per like Steve Bannon, like Dina Powell and Gary Cohn and Hope Hicks and stuff.

Even Stephen Miller, they all lived in the same city center area of Washington. And like every administration sort of takes over a neighborhood and kind of turns it into their own. The Obamas took over Shaw, Logan Circle, and turned it into like a really- Yeah. The Biden team didn't really have like a,

a thing, I don't think. At least not that I can recall. But it was also COVID weird. And the fight about Biden is, you know, it was just a mandate. I have two more quick questions for you. One is, fast and furious loud, I have been hearing this rumor that the Obamas are getting a divorce by reputable people. I'm not talking about TMZ. I'm not talking about Perez Hilton, although I love him. He's my friend. I'm talking about like

very serious journalists telling me that they're hearing that the Obama divorce rumors are true. Do you agree with that? Have you heard that? Do you think it's just garbage? Oh, yeah. I mean, I've certainly heard it for a while, even before Michelle said she wasn't coming to the inauguration, which also could be interpreted as another act of resistance, which would only make her, like, more, if that's really true and they stay together, like, more of a baddie in the movement when, like, there really is no one in the Democratic Party who is, like, holding that mantle aside from AOC. Yeah.

But yeah, we've heard that for a long time. Like I've just heard that they live separate lives. That's just what's happened. But they are kind of like America's sweethearts in a lot of ways. And it's so, I think it would be devastating. Like I told some friends about it before it broke on the Daily Mail like a week or so earlier. And when they called me, they're like, oh my God, you were right. I didn't know.

you. I think it's actually devastating for people. But then you saw they posted on Instagram anniversary posts. Very weird photo, though, of her. And I think she's a very pretty lady. And I was like, this picture is not doing her justice for how beautiful she is. I would kill Ben if he put a picture of me looking like no makeup with that lighting on social media. I would kill him. For me, it didn't help the rumors. I'm like, why are you putting this shitty picture of your wife up? Like...

I don't know. And you know, sometimes you see this too in a lot of like celebrity divorces that are being managed that they put up the post like about their love for each other before the divorce. And it's sort of like a way to lay the groundwork to make people think like, oh, well,

it was like amicable and they're good people and they want the best for each other. And, you know, or it's buying time. I also sort of wonder, because yes, a lot of the sources that I like, I'm hearing this through, they're very political. Like this isn't like TMZ crowd that's telling me about it. And I do think like, there's not a lot of goodwill around Obama right now because he essentially was like orchestrated the, the pushing out of, of Joe Biden. Yeah.

Right now, I'm not saying that I heard it specifically from Joe Biden sources or anything, but I'm sure that if they knew about it, they wouldn't be so quiet either. Listen, I'm not in their bedroom with them. I am not, you know, home at home with them. But it's not really surprising that in this phase of their life and she clearly has very little interest. She's always hated politics. Like, that's the thing. People have always said, like, we want to recruit Michelle Obama. She's the biggest star in the Democratic Party. We want her to be the next president. The woman hates it.

hates it. She literally hates it. She did not really like being first lady. She doesn't like having to go through all the ceremonial stuff. I mean, she's just like a girl from Chicago and who really like feels connected to her roots. I think, I think she kind of hates the glad handing and the kissing up and all the part of being a politician. That's like kind of rough. I mean, you probably know a lot about that. Having just been like with your father and like seeing what he like, it's a lot about relationships.

and being at ceremonial events. Yeah, but Tim Russert once said the most dangerous place in DC was between John McCain and a camera. He was the opposite of that. Like very sick with brain cancer, even in the hospital, like with nurses and doctors, he would just be like peacocking about his life. I mean, and I hate politicians like that for whatever it's worth. Like I love people who love, that's like, think why I still have like a soft spot for Bill Clinton. But on the final thing with the Obamas,

Again, you and I are both hearing this from... I'm hearing it from real people and people that are close to them. So I wouldn't talk this much... I wouldn't be spilling this much gossip, but it's everywhere. And I will say if they break up, it is going to be another... It's going to be like a metaphorical last arrow in the heart of the Democratic brand. And I think it is already a brand that has so many problems right now. And the party is such a festering carcass. I think it will symbolize just...

absolute ending of an era for that party. And because again, I have affection for some things for the Obamas, but I also think they led the breeding ground of the framework that led to Trump. And I think the idea of like a post-racial America was always an insane concept, but I can talk about that for another hour. My last question for you, Tara, is what are you working on

Any gossip you can share. I'm so happy you're back here in D.C. You have no business being in New York. I know it's more fun, but you're a political reporter. You should be here. You know, being in New York, a lot of the great political journalists like Maggie Haberman, Shane Goldmacher, they're all based in New York. Jonathan Lemire, you know,

Yeah, but you're right. At least for the beginning of the administration, it feels like the right place to be is back in D.C. And, you know, I was here as a White House correspondent before. I do think, though, people don't necessarily want to be seen with your tough reporters or breaking news all the time. And a lot of it is phone working now signal. I think the Trump team is actually really terrified right now.

they're really, really, really scared of leaks and, you know, snakes. And Susie's really trying to prove that it's a tight ship. And I think they're going to have a lot of swagger. And this is like all new incoming administrations. They have the swagger. They just won. It's always easy during the transition. You're announcing things. Confirmation's a little bit tough, but...

We'll see how long it lasts, Megan. And Trump knows that. And I think that's why you see the flurry or the tsunami. And I'll keep an eye on promises made, promises kept. We'll see how those first 100 days go. And I really think that the

The deportation issue and like how it actually is executed will matter. And, you know, Trump is it's a very different feel. It is a produced presidency. Like we went through the last four years barely seeing our president. Now we have a president who has whose drug is the media and needs to be around it at all time. Like, is it going to be so in your face that people are tired and they don't want to listen to you and me or they don't want to even hear about it? I think people can't help themselves.

I really, even when they want to, I have friends who are like, I'm opting out, but then they're always like, what about, and like texting me, whatever. And I was like, no, I thought you were opting out. I thought you're Zen and you know,

LA and whatever and Chicago and all these places in Phoenix, like I'm opting out. Well, I don't get to opt out because this is what I decided to do for to make money a long time ago. So we all have to opt in and you have to opt in. And I also like, like being informed. So it's an option for me, but I actually do think people are just going to be reinterested just because it is a great spectacle too. I mean, they're very good at producing television and content and everything else, but, um,

You're right. It's easy now. It's easy before you're governing, excuse me, and we'll see what happens. And then I had this moment and please don't, I'm going to end on this, but I'm not trying to scare you or anyone listening. I had this moment that I was like, today, today on January 21st,

If he wanted to, he could enact something that he could run for a third term today because his popularity is so high and momentum so high and he has so much power. Don't give him any ideas, Megan. If he wanted to, he could. I believe it in my heart and my brain. I'm not trying, my producer's literally like about to fall out of her chair sitting over there, but I'm not, but he could, if he wanted to, he could. I believe it. Sorry. I do. Nobody gives a shit about anything. Like, sorry. Can I ask you a question on the way out?

Who do you think will be the star of the Democratic Party in this time? Because like they it is it is the resistance. It is so weak. AOC is the strongest one right now. I still think she's so radical. I don't think she can run for Senate. I know she wants to, but I think her stance on Israel is just so out of step with where normal Americans are. And even in my personal life, so many Jewish Democrats I know have switched to

being Trump supporters in the past year, over a year, year and a half, whatever, since October 7th. But I think, I always think about the fact that Obama was an unknown until he made his convention speech. Nobody cared. There's a...

possibility that we, they're just not high on the platform. I actually think my home state Senator Ruben Gallego, um, if he could get his personal life together a little better, um, someone that actually has a lot of promise to, um,

I don't think we know yet, but AOC is the, if you're asking me who the most powerful Democrat in America is, it's AOC. That's what I think. I don't think the Obamas matter anymore. I don't think the Clintons matter anymore. I don't think Hakeem Jeffries matters, respectfully. I really don't think Chuck Schumer matters. I think Nancy Pelosi should go away and retire.

But that's all I can think of. What about you? I agree. I think AOC is the only voice that's willing to be loud right now and challenge Trump. And like there, she's not a legislator, like she's not really a doer, but she's a good communicator. And so is Trump. So you need to meet him where he's at.

she knows how to use social media like he does she has the following sure her her policies are radical but like I think right now like depressed liberals need somebody who's speaking for them and the party is not no one is speaking for them like she's very defiant which I respect defiant in the face of adversity and the other thing about her is like the thing because again I'm like

I was like sort of like war rooming this in my head. Historically, the pendulum always swings one exaggerated way or another. And in theory, an exaggerated swing from MAGA on acid would be AOC as president. Yeah.

I mean, whatever, but there will be, look, there's, there are consequences for everything. And I keep telling some of my friends who are like super MAGA and super like, whatever. I'm like, you, you always need to think about the independence, the center, right to center left. And if you ignore them, they're going to go fuck themselves all day. You're going to end up someplace you don't want. And like I said, I just think that she is, I have, I,

I underestimated her a while ago, and I do not do that anymore. If we have a first female president that's a liberal, even though that's historically unprecedented as well, it would be her. I could see her being a very, being like the most important Democrat in the country. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so too. Or we get like a TV star. Like The Walk or something. Yeah. Or Matthew McConaughey, who probably would run as a Republican. I don't know. But like if there's like a TV star. Matthew McConaughey. Sorry, is that dumb? Who is that? Oh, come on, Matthew McConaughey. All right, all right. I'm so sorry. Yes. So someone who's got like charisma and charm and like can just kind of like pants America. Like that's the only other person I could think of and isn't like too tainted by the system. But yeah.

I don't know if it's gonna be Matthew because I think Matthew is probably a Republican. He like lives in Texas, but someone who's not a part of the system. I think the system right now is just,

This DNC race, I'm not feeling very inspired right now. Neither. And David Hogg, I mean, really, I just can't with some of this stuff right now. It's really ridiculous. Tara, I've talked to you so long. I love talking to you. I know. I love talking to you too. Stay warm, my friend. I'm wearing two shirts right now. It's terrible. It is terrible. It is so cold. And you can follow Tara's work on Puck. And I subscribe. I'm a paid subscriber to Puck.

to Puck online and the newsletter. I love paying for good content and at Puck every morning is very, very good. I'm not just saying that it's one of my favorites. Such good work. And then, um, yeah, I hope I can see you in person for a drink soon since you're back in, back in the swamp with the rest of us. I know, I know. I got my gator boots on.

That was another episode of Somebody's Got to Win. I'm your host, Tara Palmieri. If you like this podcast, please subscribe, rate it, share it with your friends. If you like my reporting, please go to puck.news slash Tara Palmieri and sign up for my newsletter, the best and the brightest. You can use the discount code Tara20 for 20% off a subscription at Puck. That's uppercase T-A-R-A 20. See you again this week.