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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent and this is Somebody's Gotta Win.
I want to start with some breaking news. Kamala Harris has clinched enough commitments from delegates to be the nominee of the Democratic ticket. That means that it is unlikely that anyone will challenge her at the convention next month. In fact, there's a roll call that may happen as soon as August 1, where the delegates can vote on the nominee and the entire ticket. So we may hear soon who her vice presidential nominee will be. More on that later. But first, I
I want to talk with CNBC's campaign finance reporter, Brian Schwartz, about the money. How much money Kamala Harris has raised. It's $100 million in counting in 48 hours. It's incredible. And I guess my first question for Brian, who's on the line right now, is...
How much did money have to do with this? How much did that stop any sort of rebellion and ensure that Kamala Harris would be at the top of the ticket? Well, thanks, Tara, for having me. I mean, let's just take a step back to answer that question. First of all, the money had a big role in pushing Joe Biden to the point where he did announce he was stepping off the ticket. Let's be very clear about that.
uh, shortly after the debate that the disastrous debate for Joe Biden in June, uh, donors just started to say to me, uh, when public statements they gave me and, you know, anonymously that they were done, uh, that they could no longer give or raise big checks, six figures for some of Biden's, uh, fundraising committees. Uh,
And they were through. They were not going to help Joe Biden and Democrats up and down the ticket until he stepped down. They made that very, very clear in some cases and statements to me, in some cases in private conversations with lawmakers and people close to the president.
And then he did stepped out. So that's part one to answer that question. Part two is to be very clear that since Biden dropped out of the race, you know, the donor class have been coming home. They just have been even even when there was some hesitancy by some to really buy into the vice president being the best candidate for Democrats. Even some of those same people are coming back.
And so there really so far hasn't been some sort of donor rebellion in contrast with what took place after that debate by Joe Biden against Donald Trump. I thought that was interesting what you just said about some of the donors not being convinced because that's what I had been hearing for a long time, even before that disastrous debate. I mean, there was a fear that Kamala Harris wasn't up to the job. Have any of those sources who said that changed their mind? Do they really believe that she's ready? Because the sense that I got was that
After that debate, Biden was pretty much no longer a viable candidate. They were exhausted by the month long, almost month long resistance from Biden. And they felt like at this point, the best path forward was Harris. In fact, some of them I was talking to right after Biden dropped out, they said, we're waiting on direction. We want to know what to do. They were not interested in a rebellion. Yeah.
I mean, I think that there was, there's, there's been questions for a long time, free the debate as to whether the vice president was, was ready to lead the ticket, um, particularly from major donors and democratic party people who had helped raise money for her in some cases, uh, after, uh, her, her 2020 primary run where she had to drop out in 2019. Uh, there have been questions about that for years. Uh, but even, even since the debate, uh,
some of those questions have just kind of subsided because there was just this need to end this fight. There just came to a point where donors, strategists, lawmakers wanted this to end one way or another. And she was it. She was that person in line ready to go at this point and to run. And I think it just seemed to me from the conversations I've had where there is just this need for this to end. And so she was there waiting in the wings. She's been there waiting in the wings for years.
And they're lining up behind her. Whether they think she can beat Trump by November is a different story. And that is a critical difference. You know, there's a lot of excitement now. The campaign in the Paris world has raised over $100 million. You let off with that.
But I think some of these donors, to be fair, are going to be watching very carefully how she performs on the campaign trail. And this could be a different story in the coming weeks. Really? You think that there could be a rebellion in the coming weeks if she doesn't perform? I think there could be a growing set of questions if she doesn't perform well on the campaign trail of.
what to do here. I mean, and I don't think that that means much of anything in terms of if she's going to capture the nomination with the delegates or things like that, but it's a question of whether the donors are going to stick with her beyond the convention. If in fact she captures that nomination with the delegates and then things of that nature, right. If she officially gets that delegate count, you know, into her corner, it seems like she has that at this point. Right. But, but the,
there are people who raise money for the democratic party who are going to be watching what she does. And it's a big test for her because people have not forgotten what took place in 2019 with that campaign. Okay.
Yeah, it was one of the worst campaigns. There were a lot of rich people raising money, giving money to her. I get all that. And those people are back. I can be very clear that they're back today trying to raise their money and rally all the Democratic fundraising apparatus around here.
But at the end of the day, these same people are going to be watching very carefully. I'm not saying critically. I'm just saying watching carefully to see how this pans out because they remember what happened in 2019. I thought it was interesting that when George Clooney called on Biden to step aside, he did not immediately call for Kamala Harris. Same with James Carville, who suggested that there should be a mini primary. Privately, there is reporting, and I've heard this as well, that
Pelosi said that there should be an open process. Of course, she's come around and endorsed Kamala Harris, so has Carville. And so I think for a while, there was a feeling that perhaps they should have some sort of primary process. But I think that Biden just waiting for this long, it kind of forced their hand and they had to go with Kamala. Would you agree with that? I agree because look, she has control of an over $100 million war chest now. You...
have to be on another planet to be thinking, let's run a mini primary against her. Let's do some form of that going into a convention where, as we see now, she's racking up the delegate count from people committing to her publicly, different state parties. It would be a
crazy idea at this point in time to run some form of campaign against her. And because all these people are endorsing her now, so the same people you mentioned were not fully committed to her weeks ago are now back in the fray. Where would someone come in in a mini primary and get support? Where would it come from? Right. Well, if they were going to challenge her, they were going to have to do it swiftly, like immediately after Biden announced that he was stepping down. And
Somebody who could probably get the money is JB Pritzker, who's a billionaire, and he could probably sell finance, right? What about Gavin Newsom? Did he have the war chest? Would he have been able to do that? Gretchen Whitmer? I know they all have super PACs. But do they want to jump into this mess like that at this point? Or do they want to wait a few years to really run? 2032. Right, maybe. Or 2028, depending. Depending. And you have to put yourself in their position also on this front.
If you run against her in this kind of what it would be a weeks long primary, right? That's what we're talking about because it would have to be launched and go through into the days of the convention. Well,
What are the odds that are any of those people being, we consider it to be her running mate. That will be likely off the table. I mean, I understand. I get it. The Biden picked her after the primary and all that, but this is very different that the wounds are not going to heal that quickly. If somebody runs against the vice president, uh,
In a matter of weeks, some sort of multimillion-dollar campaign slog. I cannot imagine, again, a person like Pritzker or a bigger name player in that caliber thinking, let's unleash...
millions of dollars against her at this point and with such a short period of time until the convention starts. Yeah, no, it does seem like a very messy thing to pull off. Although a shorter period of time is probably better than having a long campaign, but still. So she inherits $96 million from the Biden campaign, right? And
And then she raised, how much was it overnight? I mean, how much has she raised so far? It was a hundred million since the day Joe Biden dropped out and he endorsed the vice president for president. And so that's a ton of money. I mean, that is unprecedented in terms of a few days of, you know, again, tons of calls and fundraising efforts behind the scenes with her old fundraising crew being mobilized.
to immediately, after that endorsement, to start making calls. That was one of the stories we ran right after this happened, where it was just boom, an immediate mobilization by the old crew to start calling people up, calling their contacts. And then on top of that, just the grassroots support. So, you know, people just be jumping in on this and saying, wow, we're really excited about the vice president running for president. We're excited that Joe Biden, you know, passed the torch today.
and giving a few bucks here or there. That's made a lot of difference, Tara, for her over the last few days. Totally. Here's the real question, though. Can Donald Trump compete?
I mean, she's got a ton of money right now. Is it possible that Trump will be outspent? I know that he had a lead on Biden, about $30 million lead as of July or June 30th, right? Something like that. But is it possible that he'll be outspent at this point? I don't know if it's outspent, but I think what it reinforces, the $100 million reinforces that the Democrats, despite being behind in cash on hand versus Trump and the Republican National Committee and those various organizations, are
are going to be able to go punch for punch with trump uh it going forward because there was some concern with biden on the ticket uh that they weren't going to be able to do that that they weren't going to be able to have enough money to take on trump directly um and and also take on republicans uh
up and down the ballot. That was the concern. And the number reinforces that they're likely going to be able to do that in the months ahead. Do you think Trump will have to spend more money, though, on advertising right now, though, because they don't they have a candidate that's not really defined. They didn't have to spend any money basically on advertising against Joe Biden. Joe Biden spent like one hundred and fifty million dollars on Trump. Do you think they're going to start spending more money than they anticipated because they have a new candidate who our puck
poll shows a lot of independents have no idea really who she is. They can't. I mean, they know who she is, but they can't actually define her. I think that's that's probably fair. I think that they're going to have to really think about their strategy and how they're going to go about doing this, particularly with the on air ads. I've seen Donald Trump's allied super PAC come up with an ad that suggests that she was involved with some form of this is their view cover up of the of the president's
health issues i mean that is one way they could go about doing this is keep in mind with that messaging right kind of tying her to to what took place even though maybe not be true to what took place uh with biden and and and whether the administration knew or didn't know about some of his health issues and uh problems that he's been having they could do that uh so i think
though it's going to, you're right, I think it's going to be very expensive for Trump and his allies to go about that messaging, create those ads, and kind of shift gears is what we're talking about here to take on the vice president. Wow. Have you heard any anxiety from Trump donors? What are they saying? You know, no. And I don't sense there's an anxiety, but I do think there is a
real push now to keep up the fundraising machine out of potential out of potential concern of how the vice president is doing with raising money uh in a matter of days there's going to be a fundraiser in new jersey featuring the likes of steve winn uh and and there's going to be other chair of family is going to be involved this is according to an invite i i received today
So there are going to be big money events for Trump. And I would imagine that those events now are going to be tailored into this concept of how they have to start shifting gears and raising a lot of money because it's out there. The vice president, the Democrats are raising a ton of money. So they are going to have to counter that.
with big events, with sellout events for Trump. And I'm going to be fascinated to see if they can pull that off in the coming weeks and months. Do we believe that Elon Musk will really donate $45 million a month? No, I don't believe it. Look, he's not a major donor. If you just go off what he's saying, he's denying he's going to do it. But he is saying that he created that pack. I think it's called the America Pack or something of that nature that's going to be supporting Donald Trump
but I, I don't buy the reporting that he's going to be giving $45 million a month. That said, I don't think he's going to be giving nothing either. I,
I think that there is a middle ground with this. I think that there is going to be a multi-million dollar effort by him and people in the tech community to support Trump. And I think that is the question mark for Democrats. Can they go to Silicon Valley and these tech communities and get some of these people on side? That is going to be a story in the coming months because they are going to need these people to come up big, to push back,
on Musk and these other guys from the crypto and tech investment world who are getting behind Donald Trump as we speak. Is there a feeling that Kamala is less exciting to them? I mean, they know her. She was the Attorney General of California. They're all Silicon Valley luminaries. She's a senator of California. Tara, it is interesting you asked me that question. I had a call with someone in the tech community before I came on here. And I'm going to put this.
I think there is an enthusiasm for her. And I think there's going to be some real thinking about people in some parts of the tech community, whether they're going to go to Donald Trump, maybe not do anything, or go help her instead. I think her candidacy is going to push some of these people to really think about what they're going to do here. Because again, you have to... The stories have to look back and look forward. Before...
Joe Biden dropped out. There was in some parts of the tech community, particularly in Silicon Valley, not everybody, some parts, there was this visceral hatred toward Joe Biden and his administration. Yeah, it's become red-pilled. And I understand the vice president is part of the administration. I get all that. But she also represents something else. To your point, she was a California senator.
She knows a lot of these people. She knows some of the big tech investors like Ron Conway and Reid Hoffman who have those networks. And those guys could go out now and say, look, Biden's gone, not on the ticket anymore.
She is the future of the Democratic Party. She could be helpful or more positive if she becomes president toward those industries. Maybe it's not true, but that could be a pitch that they make to some of these kind of donors who are on the on the sidelines going to Trump or maybe thinking about where they should go now, now that she is on top of the ticket.
I thought Ron Conway and Reid Hoffman were pretty much locked up for the Dems, regardless of who was at the top of the ticket. I think they're locked up for the Dems, but Ron Conway had very serious concerns about Joe Biden after that debate. He was in touch with former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi directly about those concerns. And the bottom line concern was this.
that the debate performance by Joe Biden was so bad that his view, Democrats were going to lose up and down the ballot and the Democrats were going to lose the White House to Donald Trump. You have to understand, Ron Conway does not like Donald Trump. Ron Conway
on Conway. Hates Donald Trump more than he loves Biden. In a way, right? He does not want Donald Trump to win. And so if you're in that camp, you're thinking, whoa, look at this debate. We're going to sound the alarms here in some capacity. And that's the wrong kind we did. He called Nancy Pelosi directly about his concerns. Yeah. And Nancy got it done. Nancy was like, we will get him out. I mean, we know that if Biden didn't step out, it was an all out war. It was going to get ugly, I was told. So yeah.
And you know what they say? Never show up to a knife fight with Nancy Pelosi. That is probably a very accurate statement. I got to say, yes, that is that is accurate. Reigning champion, even Emerita. I wonder, though, do you think the Trump grassroots has tapped out? Like there's been so many moments for them to give money, indictments, conviction, near death experience, attempted assassination, R&C.
picking your VP. Is the grassroots tapped out for Trump? I don't think so. I think that they are so all in with him. Look, I don't think anything could happen for them to hold back on giving. And that's been his jam, as you know, for years, is tapping into that small dollar donor network. I think he struggled with that
during the Republican primary because people just weren't picking a side. There wasn't money flowing just to one candidate. There were all those people running, Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis. So some of the base were giving to different candidates, not necessarily him. But I think some small dollar donor money is coming back. And again, even if it does it, Trump has wrapped up most of
of the wealthy Republican donor apparatus. Uh, there's some who are still on the sidelines, uh, some who are waiting, uh, who were waiting for his pick for vice president, uh, and who may not be coming to help him, but it doesn't matter because he's locked up most of that wealthy Republican donor fundraising world anyway. So these people don't come back, uh,
then I don't know if he cares. So it's been thrown around for a while. Oh, a billion dollars will be spent by each side in this election. Do you agree with that figure or do you think it might be higher or less? I think it's at least a billion for each side. I think now that we've gotten to this point where the vice president is charging to this nomination, Donald Trump's going to have to be shifting tactics to the points we're making here because she's the new lead nominee, new lead candidate at this point for the Democrats.
You know, I think it's going to be at least a billion on each side because this is this is going to be a shootout until November with money. It's just money is going to be flowing from both sides to try to keep their narratives going, particularly in those key states. Right, Tara? I mean, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin. Battleground states, baby. Battleground. The million dollar states.
the multi-million dollar states for each of these candidates. Let's just say I wouldn't want to turn on a TV there because I would not want to watch ads all day long. Yeah, well, some of the voters are going to have to... That's what they're going to face. I mean, it's going to be an onslaught. And it's not just going to be the stuff on TV, right? You're going to see the stuff on social media, Facebook, X, Instagram, YouTube, Google, whatever. This is where...
The last few months here with what we're seeing, it's just going to be just a knockout, drag out fight between both these two sides. This episode is brought to you by Vitamin Water. Food, entertainment, sports.
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Hey, we're invited to the Johnson Summer Pool Party this Saturday. Oh, Saturday? But that's when the Blinds guys come in to give us a quote. Oh, I already found everything we need at Blinds.com. They're totally online, so we don't have to wait around all day just to get a quote. And they're sending us free samples. Well, Blinds.com sounds like a no-brainer.
I'm going to go out there for a minute, out on a limb. If Kamala does not do well, say the polls are not great,
It shows that she's exactly where Biden was even after the debate. I mean, I don't believe that. I think she'll get a bump. I think she'll get a bump after this announcement. I think she'll get another bump around the convention when she announced her vice president, which will happen soon. So I don't believe this. But say it looks like she's doing even worse than Biden, because according to Axios, Biden was reluctant to hand over the keys to the kingdom because he didn't believe that she could actually beat Trump. But then again, he did have this strange narcissism about himself being the only one who could beat Trump. Right. Could you see...
another Nancy Pelosi donor engineered coup before the convention? That's a good question. I don't think so, but I could be wrong about this. Look, the Democrats...
I feel as if they're so desperate to get the train back on the tracks. You know this. This was a crazy few weeks. Stuff that I could speak for myself, I have never seen before. I don't care. You and I have covered Donald Trump. You and I have covered Democrats, ready for president in Congress.
I can speak for myself. I have never seen anything this wild in politics ever. And so I just don't know if the party will be able to stomach another one of these fights this election. I just don't. I mean,
I think they're riding with Harris. They're rather riding with Biden thing. They were riding with Biden until they weren't, though. Let's not forget, okay? I think they still hate Trump more than they love Harris, Biden, any generic them. But I feel as if at this point the lawmakers, the party leaders, the donors, grassroots, big money, whatever, they just want to get the train back on the tracks and keep going at Trump. Because
One of the things I realized is covering this, this whole battle, is that it's true. The fight with Biden within the party was distracting the party from doing what they said they wanted to do, which is take on Trump. It's a fact. For weeks, it was just punch after punch against Biden. Lost time, frankly. Right. Lost.
Lost time. So now would they reverse course even if some of these polls show that she's behind, which I don't know if they will because it seems like some of the polls now are showing that she's virtually tied with Trump as of right this minute. Which is where Biden was pre-debate and it was going to be a crapshoot. Effectively. And so...
If those polls stay the same or even if they get a little worse, I just don't think the party can stomach doing this again. It's too close to the convention. I guess they could do – somebody could come up in the convention, have some sort of floor fight, a convention floor fight against the vice president. But then again, if she has all these delegates locked up even by public statements at that point and the virtual vote –
I don't think they can do this again. The virtual vote is effectively naming the nominee or is that just one step? And then there's another round at the DNC. I don't even remember the technicalities, to be fair to you. I think it's like... They keep changing it. That's it. I can't seem to figure out the rules day to day. I'm kind of like you. It feels like...
the Democrats keep on shifting the goalposts with the rules, is my opinion. And as terms of the virtual call, how much that's going to matter, how the convention is going to be impacted, we just don't know yet. But what I can say confidently is that based on all of these technicalities that we're talking about, based on the sentiment that I think we're both hearing, I just cannot imagine through August them trying one of these things again. I just don't. I don't think the party...
would be able to do it. I just don't. It's not on the cards for me. So I saw that second gentleman, Doug Emhoff, he is now hosting fundraisers in Manhattan with Wall Street. That's big. And, you know, Kamala Harris, a big part of her role on the Biden-Harris ticket was to go out and fundraise for Joe Biden, right? Yeah.
And she doesn't have a running mate right now. So for seven or so days, she doesn't really have anyone at a fundraiser to glad hand for her. I feel like that's some lost time I have heard. I mean, I was on a show yesterday with Simone Sanders on NBC, and she said that they'll probably make up their minds the next seven days that they'll pick a vice presidential candidate from just a money perspective, which of the candidates on the short list are
probably has the strongest donor backing to bring in the most money. And we can rattle off some of the names. There's Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona, Governor Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota, Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, J.B. Pritzker, the governor of Illinois, a billionaire.
Is there anyone out there that you're like, okay, this person is very deep pocketed and would be worth bringing on the campaign? So Mark Kelly, Josh Shapiro, and Governor Pritzker. Those are the three. Pritzker, obviously, because he has that wealth, his own wealth, that could help fund the ticket and...
And he knows a lot of people across the country in the business community that would just come running to help him. Mark Kelly has been Arizona. He's been working the fundraising circuit for years. And Josh Shapiro, another person who's got a very, very deep bench.
of donors and supporters. Gretchen Whitmer is somebody else who could be a major fundraiser, but since she's ruled out leaving Michigan, she's going to be able to help the vice president as a co-chair anyway with fundraising. And I expect Whitmer...
from the reporting I'm doing to have a pretty big role in raising money, even without being a running mate across the country. Is there anyone else that you're hearing about that we're missing that could also be a big donor ad? Not that I could think of. I mean, I will say this. I know, I know Doug Emhoff is her husband. I understand that he's not going to be her running mate, but he is going to be a player in raising money for this ticket in the short term. And I think even through November, because Doug, uh,
He's got that legal background. I remember Hollywood. Yeah. Doug Emhoff knows a lot of people. And I think that it's fair to say that he is going to be a player for them now at a higher level than he was before Joe Biden endorsed the vice president. And I think he's going to have a lot of success raising money in the coming months. Wow. Brian, any last thoughts on the Kamala Harris donor dance?
It's going to be a fun ride, man. This is going to be really exciting stuff. The donors, the Democrats are coming home, at least most of them. And I think it's going to be fascinating to see how well they do with this group of donors that are coming back, how much money they raise in the coming weeks and months. And if you were Trump's team, would you be worried right now? I would be because, you know, there was this lag and big checks coming in to the bottom.
Biden-Harris ticket. Now Biden's off the ticket, Harris at the top of the ticket, and they're clearly raising money hand over fist. If they can continue that momentum, I would imagine the Trump team is going to be very concerned with what they're hearing because any idea that they had they were going to somehow out-raise the Democrats is going to be over in their mind because the vice president is now running the show. Isn't it amazing how the money just flows?
It just does. There's always a surge. I mean, even if it wasn't Kamala Harris, I think the money would flow. The Democrats have these moments of enthusiasm that lead to dollars. It's been that way. I understand Donald Trump has that, too. But I think historically, the Democrats really get jazzed up with news like this. It's this concept of unity, of rallying around a candidate that dollar and high dollar donors just jump on. Because you know what?
I feel like Democrats are particularly love a story like this. They do. I can't explain why, but I feel like this has always been part of the democratic party theme of the last 10 or 15 years. It's a fairy tale, but the mythology, the comeback kid, you know, but I will say she raised a hundred million dollars from 1.1 million unique donors. That's saying something. Yeah. We'll see if she can keep that momentum up. She's got a few more opportunities, but,
for that. Brian, this was fabulous. Would love to have you back on the pod. Thank you. That was another episode of Somebody's Gotta Win. I'm your host, Tara Palmieri. I want to thank my producers, Christopher Sutton and Connor Nevins for jamming out every day this week as we keep posting more and more podcasts because let's face it, this is breaking news and we're all trying to figure it out. If you like my reporting, please go to puck.news slash Tara dash Palmieri. You can sign up for my newsletter, The Best and the Brightest. If you're
You can use the discount code Tara20 for 20% off a subscription at PuckPuck. See you tomorrow.
