Highlights and Lowlights from the Third GOP Debate
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Well, the last two debates, I actually went to Wisconsin and Simi Valley. But after discussing it with my editor, John Kelly, he thought, what's the point of actually going? Because we're not really sure that it will make much of a difference, move the needle or actually do anything since Trump is up 30 to 40 points. And the gist of it, you can get from watching on television. I've been in those spin rooms.

They don't make a lot of sense. The aides are in there talking about how their candidate won, even if they didn't. And yeah, it's fun to get the feeling and momentum of being there. But third time around, I'm on a couch with...

One of my very good friends, Sirius XM POTUS host, Julie Mason. Hello. I started in a newsroom with Julie Mason. I was a green, little... Adorable young girl, all full of pep and vim. Yes. And now we're just two bitter old women on a couch. Sitting on a couch in Northwest Washington, D.C. No, Julie's amazing. I worked in the newsroom at the Washington Examiner with her.

I was always nice, right? Oh, yeah, you were great. I was like the only nice one. You encouraged me to be bold, and I respected that, and I really appreciated it because it's scary when you're a young reporter. But you grew into like the most fearless reporter ever. I will take that. I'm not sure if that's true, but I will take it as a compliment. That's true.

I think you took it too far to max down on that advice. I was like, okay, whatever Julie tells me times a thousand. I have always admired Julie and she has the gift of gab of anyone. So I knew this was going to be like the best show ever. And her show is amazing. What time is it? It's three to six on Sirius XM's POTUS channel 124, nonpartisan political talk. I have a question for you. Can I toss one at you? Oh God, sure. So,

Did you lose anything for not being at that debate? Do you feel disadvantaged in any way to the people who were watching it in person? No, I actually feel like I got more out of it because I'm sitting in some really comfy leopard pants that are... Very cute. Yeah, I don't feel like I got anything different. In fact, I feel more like someone who was home watching it with genuine interest about the candidates. And I watched it kind of waiting to see what...

when my ears would perk up and like be interested in it rather than sitting there around a bunch of other reporters are all like clicking away, kind of all looking at each other while looking at the screen. What are you leading with? What are you leading with? What's your take? Yeah. Half of them have already written half the story halfway in. So they've already decided what the debate is before it ends. So no, I don't feel like I lost anything. You've covered a ton of debates. What do you think? No, I mean, those spin rooms, there's no value.

in being there. There's none. There's value personally because I like being around other journalists and just the gallows humor and the things people say and hearing other people's interpretations of what we all just heard. Like I find value in that, but that's not something for, that you can translate into your reporting. That's just a personal observation. Or sure. Maybe something they say inspires a thought that inspires a thought that ends up somewhere. Yeah. But I, I totally get it. Um,

But, you know, if the next debate is somewhere really fabulous like Hawaii, I will be there. I do not care. Miami was hard to pass up, I gotta say. Yeah. All right. Well, let's get down to it. I mean, just like,

As a debate, I felt that this was much more civilized in the past few debates. Well, they changed the rules. Right. The candidates didn't really engage directly with each other, which cut down on the screaming. But it also, to my air, Tara, turned the debate into a lot of little mini speeches. Yeah. But so there was value in that I actually came away with some points that they made. Right. But I'm not...

The problem with this debate, right? So these are like, this is what, the second tier? Yeah. None of them have a shot. No. And they're talking about mostly foreign policy, which voters don't care about. So candidates with no shot talking about issues that voters don't care about. It's not a winning formula. No, I think you're right. I mean, it's like the last thing people think about when going to the polls, right? Foreign policy. Is that true? Where do they stand on trade with China? No. Ah.

I know. You know, maybe they can equate that to like your checkbook, but it took so long to get to those questions. Like there really weren't a lot of questions on inflation. There was one question on inflation, right? In the economy they talked about. Yeah. What would you do? And not a lot of them would really even answer that question head on, especially Tim Scott. Which to me,

was actually honest. It was an admission that there's really not much a president can do. Right. And they had some ideas like, I'm going to, what did DeSantis say? I'm going to rip up everything to do with Bidenomics. Like, okay, get rid of the Green New Deal, which doesn't exist. They never passed the Green New Deal. They need to stop at the top with the Green New Deal. It didn't even get to the floor. Even Pelosi made fun of it. It's not a law. It's not real. The Green New Deal is not real, but it's a boogeyman that they will forever use. Mm-hmm.

But yeah, no, I totally agree with you on that. There was a lot of talk about foreign policy. I wonder for people who are watching the war, though, at home, maybe they feel it a little bit more and there's fears that it could come to the U.S. or maybe people really don't care at all. I don't know. I mean, I think with Israel, there's a concern that the U.S. could get drawn into a direct conflict, you know. Right. I don't know. You're right. Drawn in again, like wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or maybe even... Nobody thinks that about Ukraine, but...

It was a long, it was an hour about a topic that I think a lot of Americans don't really care about. Right, right. But still important.

Right. They're not mutually exclusive ideas. Americans care about a lot of stuff that's unimportant. They don't really care about a lot of stuff that's important. But it's our right as Americans to feel that way. I wonder how many people who are actually watching care about TikTok, though, right? Because it's usually a much older audience that watches the debates. And I'm just like, do they even know what TikTok is? Everyone knows what TikTok is, even if they're not on it.

Okay, got it. It's an app with little videos. Okay. I now assume that the only people watching the debates are over 60. I don't know if I could be wrong. I just figured you could listen to this show instead of watch the debate. All right. I think, you know, to really just get to it, like, let's rank these guys. How do we think they did? Well, in terms of what they had to do. Exactly. Right.

There was a lot on Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis coming into this. Totally. They were, you know, essentially... Because they're basically neck and neck right now. The latest poll showed Nikki Haley in Iowa. I think, actually, the Iowa Des Moines Register poll showed her at 16%. And Ron DeSantis is 16%. Ron's gone down. She went up 10 points. Ron's banking it all on Iowa. It's not good. So eyes are all on Nikki Haley.

I don't know. I thought she still did well in the debate. I thought she won. I'm going to say it again. I said it last time. I said it the time before that. I think she's the best debater. She is in command of her facts. And, you know, that swing she did through the UN did so much to burnish her experience and also her basis of knowledge. Like, she knows a lot more than she did when she was just governor and can speak with it authoritatively.

She's plausible. That's the thing. She's highly plausible. Right, right. No, I think you're right. I was talking to someone today who worked in South Carolina politics, remembers her as this realist

rural woman, like Indian American coming from like somewhere that no one had really even heard of in South Carolina and going up against these like gentrified white men on the debate stage and just like kicking their asses. And like, that was how she became governor. They're like, who the hell is this person? She's just always used the debate stage to kick people's asses. Although I think she's corny when she goes with the hook.

the heels thing. Like, I was like, stop with the heels. It's so hard to be a woman, right? In politics. It is. Like just the fact that we're not talking about her hair, makeup and dress and shoes. But we kind of were. Let's admit it. The vague Rama Swami introduced the idea of her. He called them three inch heels. And she was like, they are five inches. He called her Dick Cheney and three inch heels.

Yeah. I thought he meant Ron DeSantis when he said that, honestly. Because we've been talking about Ron DeSantis. Well, not me, not anyone of sense, but there has been discussion of Ron DeSantis' lifts. There's been a lot of discussion of Ron DeSantis' lifts. And I think it's fair of people with sense because I think it shows you.

You know, what they're focused on aesthetically, those Cuban heels, as they're called, with perhaps lifts. And someone was tweeting, I think it was Reid Gallen who's been on the show, that he thought that Ron DeSantis had lifts in his hair, actually, that his hair looked pretty puffy. It did look puffy. So what do you think, though? Did Ron come in silver second? Yeah.

No, I'm going to give this one to my guy, Chris Christie. Yeah. Right? Because in the previous two debates, he came out like a cannonball, right? He was swinging in every direction. He was insulting. He was full of bombast. He was how we've come to think of Chris Christie. I don't know.

I think he really wants this thing. I think he's made like an investment in this race. And tonight he was the statesman. He had silver hair. He was talking about his gratitude at being an American. He was, he was being like the hopeful warrior and all that. He had, he had a whole different vibe. Was he being Mike Pence? Oh,

Oh, without the religion. Yeah, like a bit of pants without that old-timey religion. Yeah. Was his hair actually more silver? Yes, it was more silver. How did he do that? I think it's just happening naturally. Really? The campaign's wearing on it. Well, it would because that is an exhausting gig. I know. It really is. But anyway, so my point about that is... But he's only in New Hampshire, though, so... Yeah, so...

Right. I'm not even talking about his prospects or his chances because he's still in single digits. So it doesn't matter. What I'm saying is he brought a different vibe tonight. He brought his A game. He talked soberly and smartly when he pointed out the nuclear submarines. We were talking about how to defeat China. He had some pretty good answers and he wasn't just copying what everyone else said. And he is super, super pro-life.

And early on in this cycle, I asked him if he thought abortion was going to be a problem. And he was like, not for me. You know, he's like, you know, pro-life, like that's just where it ends. But he was sounding conciliatory, sounding like a reasonable man. I don't know. I thought he brought a statesman game. And what I took away from that was that he's not just in this anymore to deliver body blows to Trump. Like now he's put some skin in the game and he would like to be the nominee. Interesting.

I see. I've always thought of Chris Christie as a spoiler in the race. Right. Because I'm just like, he's so badly that he keeps saying he doesn't want Trump to win. But by way of being in the race, he is actually stopping other candidates from taking on Trump. Yeah. But if this is real and there's a shift and maybe his favorables go up. I don't I don't I don't see it. I don't. Yeah, I don't see it. I just he just made a play for it in a different way today.

You know what? Everyone has to try something new. Last time I thought Tim Scott was very fiery. It did not work. It's not Tim Scott. He's like this kind of mellow pastor. I don't know. Not like of the revivalist evangelical type. I find him to sort of put me to sleep. But today he was even sleepier than last time. The first time he was so asleep. I remember I was in the spin room and someone like said to him, did,

or maybe it was on this, on the podcast. I was, we were talking about this, like, did he even really show up?

I mean, he... There were so many candidates that we couldn't get a word in. That's fair. This time he got so many words in, but they just didn't mean much, did they? It kind of felt like word salad. And you said to me while we were watching it, like, you can get away with this in the Senate, but not on TV. And I was thinking, you know what? You're totally right. This is what it sounds like when you're watching the floor of the Senate. If you watch the floor of the Senate. There's just gassing and gassing. And...

Yeah. Yeah. But you have to be concise and direct and focused in a debate. And he just, he just didn't, I don't think he has that skill. That's why he doesn't make the top three. Um, my silver goes to, Ooh, yeah. Am I going to give it to Chris Christie? I guess I will. You're a former constituent. I know. I know Jersey girl over here. Um,

I did like his vibe. I still don't think it's winnable. I don't think anyone like... That's not the question. Okay. I mean, because it's not winnable for any of them. None of them. That's not even the issue. Yeah. It's just who showed up well tonight. I thought he showed up well. Mm-hmm. Okay, so... All right, we need to talk about Vivek now. Okay. All right. We need to talk about Vivek. You're right. Oh, God. I don't even know. Let's start at the beginning when he came out swinging at the corrupt media that has rigged every election. I...

I don't even have the means to rig an election. Do you? No. Not if I try. We couldn't even agree on a lunch order. Like, in the news media, we cannot rig your elections. We are not doing that. That's not happening. And then challenging Ronna McDaniel to come up on stage. Like, okay, dude. Can't Ronna make it more difficult, too, for him to actually qualify for the next debate? Because, like, who knows if he'll even pull? I think...

Last time I checked, he was polling at 4%. They have a minimum threshold and the RNC gets to pick every month what the minimum threshold is before the next debate. Like they could basically, he could be dwindling and she could just be like, you know what? Let's just make it one notch too hard for him. He may have poked the tiger for all we know. He asked her, he called on her to resign. That's insane.

Right? Well, not really, if you're not running for real. What is he running for? He's not even going to be an MSNBC contributor after this one. You know? Maybe Fox? I mean, he doesn't need... Well, will they still have him on Fox? After that? I don't know. Oh, I don't care. I mean, I don't think they care about Ronna McDaniel. Oh, they don't? Yeah. She's on their shows a lot. Meh. Okay. But we don't know what he's doing after this. Does he have to do anything? I mean...

He could sell more books. He could have a podcast. Start a think tank or something. They'll try to compete with our shows, but... Yeah, you're right. Woke Inc. will turn into something bigger. Then later, on the abortion thing, when he was talking about male responsibility. I heard this the other day on CNN.

And yesterday, after the losses that Republicans face on the abortion issue, which they always face on the abortion issue, I don't think they've won once, have they? Just the overturning of Roe versus Wade. So far, all of these propositions, they always go in favor of Democrats because Democrats come out and vote against this. A lot of Republicans are just people don't really vote to, like, lose rights, right?

Well, the Republican Party is MAGA right now. And MAGA doesn't care about abortion. And Trump is like so squishy on abortion that it just doesn't motivate them. They care more about like... Old school establishment Republicans who are coming out to... And there's not that many. There are not enough of them to defeat those abortion measures. Yeah, there's just maybe... Yeah, these evangelicals are not coming out. That's interesting. So male responsibility. Male responsibility. What do you think about that, Julie? As an idea...

I'm curious about enforcement on male responsibility because, as you know, we already have a problem with deadbeat dads in this country, and the courts can't handle it. It's too overwhelming a problem. Men aren't paying their fair share. So how are we going to enforce male responsibility in terms of sexual health? The last time I heard a president talking about this was George W. Bush. Wasn't he the last president that really talked about the importance of nuclear families? Yeah.

Did he? Yeah. That was his thing. He talked about a lot of things. Home ownership, you know, dancing. He had thoughts on a lot of subjects. Okay, I just remembered this. Just always talking about the importance of nuclear family. I don't know how you enforce paternity tests, and that's essentially what he's saying. So what do you do, like run around and grab a guy's hair and try to prove it's like... How do you do that in the courts? And responsible for what? Like,

Yeah. And then, yeah, what do you have like loan sharks coming out? I don't know. This is crazy. How do you enforce it? Yeah. I don't think there's any way to do that. All right. And we also need to talk about Nikki Haley saying to him... Wait, we still haven't... Oh, Vivek. We'll finish on Vivek and then we'll get back to ranking them. All right. Well, let's finish with Vivek. Okay. Let's finish... Really? I thought we'd do the whole show on Vivek. No.

So they were talking about TikTok and Vivek was saying, well, your own daughter is on TikTok. And she was just, and then finally, like, as an aside, she said, you're just scum. Now, do you think that was a canned remark that she had planned before?

No, I think it's an expression of her genuine feeling. She really hates him that much. Yeah. It seems personal with them, doesn't it? Everybody hates him. It's not surprising at all. But I did, like, for a second, though, I was like, did she think that she was going to go there, like, before that? Scum, though. That's a very specific term.

She probably uses it regularly, right? I don't know. That's not a word I use. Is that a word you use? No, no. Like I would probably say jerk or jackass or something. Or like your slime ball, maybe I would say. Slime ball. Oh, like that's slimy or like, but then again, like I don't have a daughter, so I don't know exactly what that feels like.

But scum. To have your child be like... Call someone scum. It like negates his humanity in a way. Yeah. It felt low. And then I wondered if it would hurt her too. No, I don't think so. Yeah. I don't think a woman being tough in politics is ever a bad thing. I mean, so someone the other day, who was it compared to Margaret Thatcher? And I was like, okay. She compares herself to Margaret Thatcher. And that's not a bad model for a woman in Republican politics. Right. It's probably the only way you get respected. Mm-hmm.

fair, right? Yeah, fair. Well, that was a moment. I think that was maybe the biggest moment. What, the you are scum moment? Yeah, I think so. Hmm. Yeah. There weren't a lot of, like you said, there weren't a lot of flashpoints because they weren't really mixing it up because they couldn't. Right, they weren't allowed to. She tried to a few times. But it kind of made it for a much slower debate. I could see people changing the channel much quicker. Also because of the topics, like Venezuela. Like,

Like, okay, yeah, okay. Like, hashtag important, but... A little wonky. Yeah, and it took them a while to get around to, you know, last night and the election last night, which I wish they had opened with. But I guess this was meant to be a debate on foreign policy, so they had to check all those foreign policy boxes and talk about Ukraine and Israel and then get to... Was it always meant to be a debate on foreign policy, even before Israel? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay, got it. I mean, there's always foreign policy, right? Because, you know... But in every debate, there's foreign policy. But I just was wondering if this was like before the war in Israel, if it was supposed to be a foreign policy debate. I don't know. The last one was on the economy because it's Fox Business News. So yeah, that would make sense. So this would be the foreign policy debate. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Anything more you want to say about Vivek? I mean... I don't think he made...

any really good policy points. First of all, he talks too much and he talks too much too fast. He did call, uh, he did call Zelensky a comedian in cargo pants. That was pretty crazy. Yeah. And he's gone full anti-Ukraine, um, good versus evil. Don't buy it. He was saying he's unpersuaded. He, uh, he said that Ukraine has unwound into a disaster. Well,

Like, really? Has he even been to Ukraine? No, no. Unwound into a disaster. Like, how is it?

gotten any worse. It's just still a really bad, tough war. Right. I know. He doesn't have any real expertise on any of these topics. Nobody has a lot of words. I will say, though, if we're talking about foreign policy, they weren't that different. It was more of just like sort of out... On the edges. On the edges. Or like, even, I guess what I'm trying to say is like, I thought that Ron DeSantis was belligerent when it came to all things like

foreign policy. Like, we're going to go to war on our southern border. War with Mexico. War with that war. War, war. We're going to level you. We're going to kill everyone. Yeah, and if I'm president, no one will live. And it's just like, whoa.

I just feel like it was very belligerent. It really was. And it was just grades of belligerence to me in terms of foreign policy, except for Vivek, who was sort of isolationist, but also belligerent in his language. But it was just sort of hard to understand. Oh, my God. Trying to get a straight answer out of Senator Tim Scott on funding for Ukraine or any subject, really. It was miserable. Just going in circles and circles and circles. And, you know, where's the accountability? He refused to say about money for Ukraine and they just kept

pushing him. And it was like, dude, just take a position. That is taking a position as leadership. Kristen Walker, she would follow up and just say, so what's the answer? What is it? Is it yes or no? What is the answer? And he really struggled with it. You could just tell. And he always went back to his mother, stories about his mom. I know being the child of a single mother is a part of his life story. And I've heard from people around his campaign that

you know, that he thinks, that they believe that when he sticks to his life story, he's the most compelling. And they even knew this coming into the debate that they were going to back off angry Tim Scott with the goatee from last time. I don't know if you remember that. It was a much fuller goatee. Yes, it was just like a little shadow.

Yeah, it was more of a shadow was softer. He was softer last time. He was more aggressive. But they believe that if he kept going into his life story and he seemed more like relatable, that could increase his favorables, make people like him more. But he just didn't answer questions. And like you said, you can get away with that in the Senate, not.

I thought he had one pretty good answer on the energy problem and the economy and the short term, what will you do? And he said, Keystone XL Pipeline. That was an easy answer, but he just pulled it out. But no, but he first didn't answer it. And then afterwards, I think Kristen was like, okay, but what's the answer? And that's when he said, okay, Keystone Pipeline. But what... I mean...

Yeah, he probably had the most distinct, succinct answer out of all of them. The Social Security debate was interesting. It was. All right. Because so that here's an issue that people care about, domestic policy issue that is a looming crisis. It is a matter of debate on Capitol Hill, like right now is starting to percolate as something they need to deal with. So Chris Christie made a strong point. Rich people shouldn't be getting Social Security checks.

Yeah. That was a little unusual for Republicans because usually they just leave rich people alone. And you made the point that when it's about taxation, right? But so rich people paid those taxes, but now they're not going to get a benefit under like...

under a Chris Christie ideation. So raise the retirement age for young workers. Haley talked about, you know, we need to keep our promises, limit benefits for the wealthy. Do I sound like her a little bit? She always sounds like she's reading to children. I think she's a little bit tougher than that.

Yes, she is. I'm going to push back on that. Okay, push back. I enjoy your impersonations. Do not get me wrong. Keep them coming because I freaking love them. Okay. But I'm just... I don't know. I think she's a bit more... Yeah, she's a...

She's a bit more of a battle axe. She's got more of an attack at the end of it. I don't know. Maybe. She's sharper than that. Yeah, she's a bit sharper than a school teacher. I'll give her that. Okay. So limit benefits for the wealthy. She piggybacked on that. Vivek was all over the place. Stop paying for war. He was talking about zero-based budgeting. Shutting down agencies. Laying off federal workers. This is the way. Improve growth. Which is like...

I don't know. I mean, how many administrations have come in and said, we're going to solve all our problems by improving growth? It's like, yeah, no, you're not. It's a lot of platitudes. Because you can't control growth. Yeah, totally. I agree with you on that. And Tim Scott as well said, grow economy and cut spending on Social Security, which was not a satisfying answer. Not by picking on seniors, you grow the economy with 10 million new jobs. And he was talking about how lowering taxes raises revenue. Yeah.

It's amazing. Like sometimes it does, but you can't, you can't, you can't,

Oh, condition people's retirement on a theory. Right. This is something that Republicans always say and do. They're like lower taxes. It's Reaganomics. Everyone will make, you know, I don't know. It's just it's and it's never on rich people. I wonder if those rich people cash their checks, though. Like, yeah, Warren Buffett. But I guess it's already been allotted. Right. So it's gone. Is that how it works? Yeah. I mean, yeah, you get it.

I don't know what they do with it. Do they cash the tax? But if we've learned anything about rich people in our lives, isn't it that they're very miserly and they hold on to every penny and they didn't get rich and stay rich by blowing their social security check? Right, that's true. I wonder how Republican voters are going to feel about

about raising the retirement age because so many of them are older. Right. And I do think... Well, they meant it for the younger workers, for like people in their 20s and maybe 30s. Oh, right, right, right. So the ones who would vote for Biden suffer because they're already going to vote for Biden. Although according to the latest polls, they might want to vote for Trump, but he's not going to raise the age limit too. This is so confusing because it's like so bifurcated that it's like, this is a Republican debate for Republicans. And then there's Trump...

in Miami having the MAGA debate with himself, which according to Twitter, because I couldn't watch both, apparently he's talking about how people over 80 aren't old. So he's now like... Except Biden is.

No, Trump says that says Biden at 80 isn't old. He's incompetent. He apparently and his aides have apparently made the point that that Trump doesn't attack Biden for his age because of this. They know that they're both old. But it's kind of interesting that he would say that. Yeah.

at this debate. See, Trump is already in the general election. These people are in like a faux primary. They're running for 2028, but that's just a sideshow. I mean, this is a sideshow, sorry. I'm just talking about the real show over there, but it came across my Twitter while I was watching the sideshow. It is interesting. Because there's nothing to stop Trump from attacking Biden on his age. Like Trump's own age is not disqualifying for Trump to attack Biden on his age in the mind of Trump. Right. Right. Like,

anything being a double standard or hypocritical is not operative. It is, but maybe he understands his own mortality. Is this some weird thing about Trump that we haven't... Do you think he's facing his own mortality? That is actually very serious if he is. Yeah. Yeah. Is he going to get all existential and philosophical on us now? No. I think he's going to be one of those grumpy old men that just goes out bitching the whole time. But like, still, I don't know. I don't know. We'll see.

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So we've decided, I'm just going to go with you on Christy. Really? Yeah. Well, I mean, okay. Was it Ron DeSantis? Was he number two? No, because like Ron DeSantis. Was Vivek? No. Was Tim Scott?

No. So process of elimination. It's Chris Christie. I gave it to him affirmatively, but you had to be dragged into it. But we reached the same point eventually. We did. We reached the same point. We really did. And I mainly because like Tim Scott makes my eyes glaze over. I think he doesn't make any points. Yeah.

I think Rhonda Sanders is too belligerent with a smile and the vague Rama Swami is psychotic and scares me, frankly. He does. And I was saying to you at the time, I'm like, I would not want him sitting on my couch right now.

Well, who could get a word in, right? He's exhausting. Yeah. No, he really is. And he doesn't make any policy points where I'm like, oh, yeah. At least Nikki is detailed and knows what she's talking about. She really does. She's on point on abortion. Can we give her that? Yes, yes. In terms of where the Republican Party is right now and where America is right now, that's someone that people can look at and say that even if they're pro-choice and say, all right, she's...

Reasonable. She's not talking about a national ban, right? Like she could bring in independent suburban women with that position and say, we just need to reason together. And, you know, we have to stop lying. We can't pass a national ban. Right. She's right about that. She's right about the 60 votes in the Senate. No Republican can ban abortion. She said, let's just find consensus. Stop the judgment. Right. You can't write an executive order to ban abortion. Like it's not happening. Or it would have happened already. Yeah.

And the other, Christie said the same thing. He essentially said, he's like, I leave it to the states. Fine. He said the founders were smart. This is a state's issue. We should not short circuit that process. I think the point that they were all like in the beginning of the debate, they seemed to meet, make the same points over and over again about Biden being too weak on Israel. Right. But I don't know. To me, it was just varying degrees of, of it was all,

pretty much on almost every issue except for Vivek. I think they were all in alignment, right? Closely, yeah. Closely. Social security was different, give or take. Abortion was a little different. A little. But I mean, there aren't really stark differences here. No. Really not. They're really not. I mean, who do you think's going to drop out first? Tim Scott?

Did you read that A.B. Stoddard piece, like, urging him to get out, saying, point made, like, time to just go. No, I didn't. It was powerful. Okay. It was a good piece. And she's got some command in that community. But obviously he didn't take her advice because that was a few weeks ago. Right. Yeah. Is he...

Yeah, because Vivek has money to keep going, right? And the ego to just keep bloviating as long as he can. Unless Rana gets her revenge. Her pulling revenge. Because you can do that. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Who do you think threw the biggest Hail Mary? Were there any Hail Marys? Not really.

No, I don't think so. I just think like out of the gate, Vivek was just nuts. Like that was a choice. Right. Well, one of his staffers, right, was asked like, what's his vibe for tonight? And she said, unhinged. Really? Yeah. That was like the plan. And I thought it was a joke. Wait, what? Yeah. I thought it was a joke, but then he kind of was unhinged a little bit, like, or determined to appear so. He's definitely going for like a media play, like an alt-right media play. Yeah, like attack the news media. Like, I'm so over that. I know. Yeah. Yeah.

Is he going for, does he just want to be Trump in 2028?

Is he laying the groundwork for that? Because Trump had to run in 2012, basically, to get ready for 2016. I mean, isn't this just... He had to create the birtherism. He had to... He did, you know? Yeah, no, no, no. But I'm saying, Vivek, isn't his whole candidacy just like a rich guy's, like, you know, hobby? Yeah. Words came out of our mouths at the exact same time. We're like wondering what his political calculations are. Does he have any? But I... Again, though, Trump was... It was a rich man's hobby that worked out.

It can happen. And sometimes when you have nothing to lose, it's sort of like it just works out. I remember in 2012, he wanted, you know, birtherism, yada yada. He thought he was winning. He was calling us at the New York Post every other day. Write this down. It's like, okay. He thought he was running a campaign. I mean, he didn't get... He wasn't on the debate stage or anything like that. But still, this guy is on the debate stage. Maybe he's a little farther along. They just kind of know that they have to... He's probably assuming Biden will get reelected. And then...

He's already got people who know him. He has name ID. Yeah, but his negatives just keep going high. The more people get to know him, the less they like him. I know, but they think that they can tap into the MAGA youth or something, but maybe you're right. MAGA youth? Not youth, but younger people show up for him, apparently. For Vivek? Yeah. I don't know. That's what their people say. Oh, bronze. So that means process of elimination. Who do we think? Yeah. Do we have to give it to DeSantis? Yeah. Yeah.

Because we have always trash-talked poor Senator Tim Scott and Vivek Ramaswamy down to the floor. It can only be DeSantis with the bronze. I'm giving it to Tim Scott. You are? No. Well,

I just think Ron DeSantis was too belligerent. Like, I think Vivek was the most belligerent, but I think he was like second ranked belligerent. Second most belligerent? Second most belligerent. So I give it to... But let me, you know, is belligerent a problem in politics, in Republican politics of this moment? No, you're right. It's not. It's not. So if you were looking at with the eyes of a Republican voter, an undecided Republican voter in a state like Wisconsin...

And you're looking at Ron DeSantis. Is his belligerence a problem? Maybe in the Midwest. Maybe they need a different region. They're mad as hell. Yeah. Are they? They're nice people. Yeah, they're nice. Maybe that's why it's not working out for him in Iowa, despite even the endorsement of Kim Reynolds, the governor. Iowans are nice. Yeah, they're really nice people. They are nice. And he's just like, and then he smiles in a really weird smile that he just learned about a month ago.

you know, smiles, unfortunate. It's, he just feels very still that he's just not natural. And that's why I have a hard time giving him any sort of performance. Um,

Yeah, understood. I also find him to be a little frightening, like, we're just going to kill everyone at the southern border. Like, that's scary. I thought his answer on Social Security was good. I mean, that was a bit of a standout when he was talking about, you know, with a sort of joke about Floridians being on Social Security. Right. You know, and he'll protect everyone's Social Security. Well, it's a part of the economy of the state. Yeah.

You know, he would go home to some people with like pitchforks out for him. And he actually talked about his, you know, he talks about his kids all the time, but his grandmother, 91, you're like, oh yeah, you were born from someone, not a test tube. Okay. So...

We talked about who's going to drop out next. I don't know. The next debate is probably just going to be Rhonda Sanderson, Nikki Haley, right? I don't think Vivek is going to give up. Never going to give up. Never going to let you down. So it will forever be a crazy...

shit show until then, but it really wasn't as much of a shit show as last time. Last time was so truly cringey. And it was, Christy was cringey last time and he wasn't this time. No. He really took a pivot. Yeah. Yeah. He brought, he brought his statesman suit. Cause he was like, Donald Duck for not showing up. And I was like, Oh God, not a cringe. Like it was a, I was a choice. Everybody made different choices except Nikki. But,

Vivek, well, no, Vivek made a different choice from last time because he was more subdued, trying to win over, probably trying to up his favorable. You know, you make, you inadvertently make a great point is that she's been consistent. The same Nikki Haley has shown up for every one of these debates. Right. Right. And she's only varied in how much there was finger wagging. Yeah.

And that was the only variation. But it was the same Nikki Haley. It wasn't like, well, I'm going to try this sound or I'm going to try that out. I'm going to show up and be this guy. She's just herself every time. I actually think

Ron DeSantis has been the same, but better versions of himself, of what he was. The first time he was just so robotic, it was bad. But that was just the best he could be at the time. He wasn't coached enough. And then this guy, Brett, I'm blanking on his name, McDonald, who used to work for Pompeo, came along. Oh, right, right. That guy who's like the debate coach to the stars. Yeah, he came along. Yes, exactly. He came along, helped him out a little bit. Everyone thought he was a bit smoother. And he's getting better. He's learning, you know? Maybe.

Maybe it's not Matt Gaetz coaching him like with a sign that says, be nice or be more likable. But yeah, he seems like he's getting better. Maybe by the fourth debate, he'll be better. And it just takes time. But Nikki's always crushed debates and she's continuing to, but I don't know. It doesn't matter really.

I noticed that Trump's staff on Twitter was calling her bird brain the whole time. Yeah, didn't they? They had a bird cage delivered to her hotel room once. It was like a, yeah, bird brain. What does that mean? Like, I don't get it. She's kind of dumb. But she's not. No. It doesn't fit. It doesn't work. Like, the sanctimonious works because he was sanctimonious. A bit sanctimonious, yeah. But she's not a bird brain. No, they got to come up with

something better. Well, before they criticized her complexion. Remember, she had bad skin. That was what they were saying about her. Her skin looks good now. Yeah. She's doing something. Okay. Closing statements. Closing statements. Because those were really interesting and I felt like they encapsulated

each candidate's like sort of core value in a way. They like had a chance to say, it was basically what matters to you, right? And Rick Scott was all faith, patriotism, individual responsibility, you know, Jesus. Stop the victimhood. Yeah. He loves that. Chris Christie talked about the gift of being an American. He said, our difference has been our strength. He talked about bringing honesty and integrity back to the Oval Office, which was a bit of a swipe at Trump.

Not Biden. But really quickly. Yeah. None of them mentioned Trump in their ending statements. No. And really didn't talk about him at all. Even when they were asked about him. They didn't mention him. I know. That was the first question was about Trump, right? The first word was Trump. Right. And they, for the entire debate, I don't think I heard Trump's name once. And Christie would usually use these opportunities on a national stage to try to attack Trump, but he didn't this time. I know. Yeah, he didn't.

It's not really getting him anywhere. So he might as well be a real candidate. Yeah, but that means you can't attack Trump. Okay, we'll keep going. No, I mean, I think he will. I don't work for him. I'm not a spokesperson. I don't think he's written off ever attacking Trump again. I mean, that seems to be his bread and butter. But tonight, yeah, they didn't really get into it.

Yeah. I mean, it's not helping him. That's for sure in Iowa. Vivek, his closing statement was like, we need... Oh, he was talking about people who hate America. We need someone young with fresh legs to take down the deep state, prevent World War III, national pride, and the farce that Biden is the nominee.

And he's a puppet of the managerial state? Classy. That was weird. He was like, step up, Michelle Obama. Step up, Gavin Newsom. We want to fight you. It was like almost conspiratorial. I mean...

Sure. Actually, in D.C., not so conspiratorial. People do talk about this. But at the same time, he did throw up throw out a lot of like conspiratorial ideas, especially to end it with. Right. For someone who's so concerned with looking smart, that just makes you look like a dum-dum. Yeah. All the deep state Michelle Obama. First of all, Michelle, let's just let Michelle Obama hate politics. She hates all of it. She's never going to run for office. Although she is probably the most popular Democrat.

in the country. Right. But if she ran for office, those numbers would drop hard. Really? Yeah. Because she would just show how much she hates it. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yeah, she's popular because...

She doesn't run it. Because she's not part of it. And she can just like write books and be in the media. Laura Bush was hugely popular too. Like the wives are popular because they don't have to do the hard stuff. Yeah, but she took it. That's a special case. Okay. All right. World is on fire. Right. World is on fire. He's a puppet. Michelle Obama. Then we move on to Nikki Haley. Defeat terrorism and socialism.

Yeah, that sounds about right for her. That's consistent. Show America strong and proud. Yeah, exactly. And it was cliche how she started. Like, the world's on fire. Yeah, I'm so tired of that. Right. It just makes me think of a Dusterfire meme. I do feel that way. I'm going to admit it.

Really? Yeah, it's really sad. With all the anti-Semitism and everyone at each other's throats. It's horrible. And people are broke and mad. Yeah, I feel it. I do. It feels like a sad, scratchy time in America, doesn't it? It's just like a constant anxiety. Yeah, okay. And then...

DeSantis. Sorry, I just burped. That's cool. Scratch that. Or keep it. Keep it. Keep that. People pay extra for that. He talked about reversing our country's decline. We're going to fight for you, for this country's revival. I don't think

We can all agree that this country is going through a bad moment, but are we a declined nation? I mean, we're in two wars. Our economy is better than anyone else's. As bad as it is and as grumpy as everyone is, these other countries are still dealing with massive inflation. Right. That's true. I mean, the one thing that I thought was interesting is he sort of used Trump's, like, I'm...

I'm here for you. Like, it'll be me. I'm the body that will do this for you. And I'll take the slings and arrows. I will protect you. He tapped into that kind of like, I don't know. But does America want a daddy? Sometimes America wants a daddy. Yeah. I don't know if it's daddy season. I don't know if it's daddy season. I don't, I mean, does America not feel protected under Joe Biden? That's the question.

If there is some kind of attack, you know, and the FBI director's been warning that we are more at risk for some kind of an attack than we've been in a decade, that would be, then that would be the moment for I will protect you. Yeah. But,

It's been pretty safe until now. It seems a bit like, it just reminds me of Trump's like, I'm the person between you. Like, they're coming for me, but I'm the person who's protecting you. Like, I'm protecting you from them. And so that, to me, he was like, I'm going to embolden this country or I'm going to

save this country from its decline and they're going to come for me while I'm doing it. I'll take the slings and arrows. Yeah. As he started with arrows and slings. Those monologues down in the beginning, they're rough. And you're supposed to keep the viewers that moment, right? Because you can just change the channel after listening to that lame monologue, right? But that's, that's an opening statement. We didn't even go into that, but yeah.

I feel like any closing statements for you, Julie Mason? Oh, I mean, I don't think the race is going to be materially changed by this. Nikki Haley probably picks up a few more percentage points, right? Gets her to like within shooting distance of 20%, maybe. But Trump is still out there with 61%, you know? And God bless them for trying. I know. I wonder, though, if it helps her with donors.

that have maxed out to DeSantis and are looking somewhere else. And even just having a little bit of a bump could help her with more money. And more money keeps her going longer. I'm going to throw out a crazy theory that I hear from everyone that I talk to that probably would like her to succeed. So does she have a path? No. So I'm going to throw it out there. Regardless, the thinking is...

She comes in second in Iowa. Distant second, fine. She comes in second or third in New Hampshire. Fine. Distant, whatever. This is to Trump, obviously. Trump is first. In South Carolina, she comes in second, but not as distant. She makes it to Super Tuesday, loses Florida, but then can compete in the other 46 states where people are less...

perhaps informed crazy. I don't know. And she can keep going and going into this Jan 6 investigation. Maybe Trump's convicted. Maybe she's just there waiting to take the torch. Oh, Republican in case of emergency. Exactly. And that she's being propped up the entire time by these billionaire donors. The donor class. Exactly. Who were like, she's our ace in the hole. Got it. And already the pro-Israel donors

love her. They always have. It sustained this campaign to begin with. And it's crazy. It's out there, but that's the thinking. And also now that Glenn Youngkin, who has been their lover boy for months, just hoping that he might be able to flip the legislature, didn't happen. Senate, no. In fact, if anything, Glenn Youngkin got a real body blow from this last election that was yesterday. Maybe these rich guys are going to go to her, but...

Can money really buy you votes? It can keep you in the race, even if you don't have the votes. Look at like Ted Cruz and John Kasich. Look how far they went. No one was voting for those two, but they just stayed in the race because they had the money to keep going. So she could stay in it. Yeah. Even if she's not racking up huge wins. So she stays in it long enough for Trump to be convicted. Or to be so mortally wounded that it's no longer possible. What do you

think of these polls showing that people say, I like Trump, but if he's convicted, I'll change my mind? Yeah, they say he drops six points if he's convicted. How? Right? Like, so after everything we've seen from Trump, everything

everything we've seen over time. And that's the tipping point if he's convicted? I mean, there's always a rationale to keep supporting Trump, right? The judge is crooked. They're out to get me. It's a witch hunt. I will win on appeal. Is it just too messy? Like, is the sentencing immediately after the conviction? Like, is he actually under house? Like, an indictment isn't messy? Like, an insurrection isn't messy? But then you go to court, right? A million people died from COVID. That's true. Okay, so...

But COVID wasn't like, oh, that was bad management of COVID. But like, I don't think people necessarily blame him for COVID because COVID was everywhere. I think his management was bad. But regardless, not regardless, but you know what I'm saying. My point is, is like, I just, I have a hard time believing that that is truly, or is that just something people say to pollsters along with, and I go to church three times a week. That's true. I think the orange jumpsuit or like having an ankle bracelet makes you seem like you can't,

do the job. It's a huge restriction on your ability to do the job. He could still do the job, but like how? What are they supposed to like slip him like documents through visiting out? That's the question. Can you do the job? And I think that restricts you from doing the job. Just saying.

I could be wrong. I know, we're just trying to game it out here. I was just curious what you thought about that because I've found it very puzzling. That's how I feel, frankly. Oh, really? Not like I would vote for Trump, but if I tapped into the mind of someone, because I have people in my family that love Trump, I would think that they would also think to themselves, they'd be angry, but they'd also be like, well, can he actually do the job from in prison? Or maybe they could just get an ankle bracelet.

And he'd work for Mar-a-Lago? Isn't the White House a prison anyway? Some say. Yeah. Yeah. Bill Clinton called it the crown jewel of the American penal system. Oh, wow. Love these references. They're amazing. And this is why Julie is going to be a regular if she lets me. Well, this has been a...

interesting wrap-up, my favorite so far. Oh, good. For the most boring debate, this has been the most fun wrap-up, I've got to say. I think we rose to the occasion, even if the candidates, by and large, could not. I would agree with you. Is that fair? Yes. We won the debate. Yes, we did. All right. Well, that was another episode of Somebody's Gotta Win. I think we nailed who won. And I'll be back again on Tuesday. I want to thank my producers, Devin Manzi and Connor Nevins. It's been a pleasure.

If you like my reporting, you can sign up for my newsletter at puck.news.tarapalmeri and you can get 20% off with the discount code Tara20. If you like this podcast, rate it, subscribe, share it with your friends. See you next week.