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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent, and this is Somebody's Gotta Win. I'm back from vacation. Don't worry, I won't be taking another one anytime soon. I dropped in for two emergency podcasts because, let's face it, we needed it after that debate. But nothing seems to have changed since then.
Joe Biden is still in a politically precarious situation. Even after a sit-down interview with George Stephanopoulos, he's defiant. He's rejecting the polls that show Donald Trump making gains in the popular vote, something that Republicans rarely win. He still believes he's the only person on earth who can beat Donald Trump. In fact, he said the Lord Almighty would have to come down and tell him to drop out of the race. Right.
That's not happening anytime soon. So you see where he stands. But still, there's been concern that this week would be a big one for Joe Biden to overcome. Democratic lawmakers are back on the hill. And there was fear that there would be a revolt among those members of Congress and Senate or worry that they are going to go down with the ship with Joe Biden at the top of the ticket.
But it's been pretty tame so far. Only 10 or so lawmakers have come out with statements saying that he should not be the party's nominee. And that's certainly not enough to move him. It's not the leadership of the party. And sure, what is everyone saying privately? The exact opposite. They do not want him to be at the top of the ticket. But until they say it publicly, they have clearly hedged their bets that Biden is staying on and that they will pay a price for coming out against him. But that's
But that's not it. He's got more ahead of him. A big NATO summit in D.C. when he's expected to hold a press conference. It's another event where he's got to speak extemporaneously without a teleprompter and take questions from the press. It will give the public another opportunity to see with their own eyes if Biden is up
for the job. On this episode, I have my colleague and friend Weijia Zhang on the line. She's the senior White House correspondent at CBS News, and she's been asking hard-hitting questions this past week about the president's health.
We reported alongside each other during the Trump administration when I was a White House correspondent for ABC News. She's been in the White House briefing room day after day, and she's had to deal with covering an administration that has kept her at arm's length. And we go into whether she's seen an even greater shift where they've been protecting Biden even more as he seems to decline.
Wajah, thanks so much for coming on the show. This is a big week for Biden. It's kind of do or die in a lot of ways. I think his political survival really depends on how he gets through this week.
So let's go into the latest state of play. What are the stakes? You've got members of the House and Senate back in Washington. They spent the past week with their constituents. You know, it was July 4th. They're hearing from them, many of them balking at the debate performance. And some of them have already spoken out publicly, only a handful, that they believe that the president should decide to step down from his campaign and he should not run for reelection. Others have only said it privately.
What are you hearing? What's the latest state of play? Clearly, Biden is dug in. The president has made clear in every way that he can, Tara, that he is not going anywhere. He was on a massive donor call today sending that message. He called into Morning Joe to relay that message. And I think that's what we'll be hearing from him for the rest of the week.
But you're right. I think it's not only this week. Basically, every single day from now until the election is a make or break moment for Joe Biden. He cannot afford to have another misstep, another episode like the one we saw during the debate. And, you know, the thing is,
is that the White House in the campaign has sort of set him up for this because they've laid out all these tests for him, right, that they want the public to be able to see and to check off. Look, he did a big network interview. You know, he's doing a press conference this week. He's hosting NATO. He's going to be calling into radio shows. He's going to be meeting with donors and on the
phone and going to rallies. So there's so much scrutiny on him, even more so because, you know, they have to sort of launch this full court press to prove that what we saw earlier
on the debate stage was a one-off. Okay, so you don't think there's like one shot for lawmakers to push him over? Because it seems like from what he said, only God alone coming down from earth to tell him to drop out is the only thing. So to me, I interpreted that as he thinks he can continue being gaffe prone because I'm not sure that that George Stephanopoulos interview stopped the bleeding. What do you think? Well,
I think the most telling part of that interview, Tara, from what I've heard from, you know, Democrats is the question about, OK, well, what if Donald Trump wins? Will you be OK with that?
And he said, as long as I gave it my all. And I don't think that's good enough for Democrats and for people. Right. Because to quote a couple of people I talked to, they said that's clearly putting himself before the party. It's self-centered and reckless. He sounds like Trump. I mean, that's what Trump would say. I alone can fix this. I think in that regard, there are similarities. The language is very similar. Correct.
If you strip away some of the extra color that Trump, you know, likes to coat his words in, the message is the same, which is that I am the best person for this job and nobody can convince me otherwise, even if you have members of your own party.
as you mentioned, who are publicly calling for that. But the problem is no one wants to attach their name to it. Some senior Democrats have, but privately. Privately. But look what happened with Senator Warner, right, of Virginia. Like he was going to have this meeting with senators to talk about the future of Joe Biden. But as soon as that leaked, it
it sort of, you know, folded because nobody is ready to go there. Yeah, they called him ambitious, right? That's what Biden said. He's ambitious. He was turned down to be vice president under Hillary Clinton and as the running mate. And so that's sort of how he's being dismissed, sort of like how Dean Phillips was dismissed as ambitious. Right. And so, you know, the problem is all
All the Democrats aren't going to get together and be willing to publicly say it's time to step aside. Then you just have these outliers in public and they're the ones that look like they're betraying Joe Biden. When in reality, there are dozens of lawmakers who believe that he should step aside. But, you know, until they're willing to go there, I don't know that it matters that much because, you know, in public,
They are still supporting Biden. Do you think more numbers, like if there's a hundred of them that are signing on to a letter or I mean, that seems pretty substantial if there are more. I mean, I spoke to a senior Hill aide who said, basically, we know we're going to lose. We're going to lose the Senate.
We're going to lose the House. We're going to lose the White House. But there's nothing we can do about it. It's up to Biden to decide. That is, I think, what's kind of lost in the shuffle here. It's like, so what if everybody signs a letter? At the end of the day, Joe Biden earned...
the delegates, right, in the primary. And you can't strip him away of those. So it has to be Biden who makes this decision. Now, you have covered plenty of politicians that you know that just because they're saying one thing in public, which is I'm not going anywhere, you have to drag me out of there. That doesn't mean that's ultimately what's going to happen. I think if anything, if he does decide to step aside, he's going to want to get as close to
to the official roll call as possible. Oh, interesting. That's August 7th, right? Because the DNC changed that. They said they were going to have a virtual roll call by August 7th because of Ohio's ballot measure. In order to meet that deadline, they had to move it up till before the convention. And so we're expecting that to happen sometime between July 21st
and August 7th. July 21st is the last of sort of the committee meetings that have to happen before there can be this big roll call. And so if Biden steps aside before that, that gives a lot more time for anyone who's not Vice President Kamala Harris to
to try to mobilize and have some sort of mini primary and gain support. But if you take it all the way up to the roll call and then last minute he decides to step down, there's really no time. And his vice president will be the presumptive nominee, right? Will be the nominee. Yeah. It'd be hard to take her on right now because she's going to get all of his money. You can't just transfer that money to someone else. It's not like she can also say, I stepped down. Yeah.
And who's raising money in secret right now? Because they say, if Biden steps down, I'm going to become the nominee. You can't do it to the extent that you need in order to take on Donald Trump. And so the war chest...
is a big factor here. And another reason why, if it wasn't Joe Biden, it's probably going to be the vice president. What about someone like J.B. Pritzker, though? He's a billionaire who could fund self-fund. Well, there's always the possibility, but you also don't want any sort of chaos and infighting.
because that just weakens the party, which is exactly why I think Congress has to get its act together in terms of the Democrats. You have to have the same message or all of this infighting is just going to chip away at any kind of strength you have, not only for the presidential election, but for the down ballot elections as well. So again, time is running out, which is why, you know,
Schumer, Jeffries, they need to sort of come together and decide and then tell their conferences, this is what we're doing. We're getting behind for Biden. And that's that, which is why, you know, Biden sent a letter today, which I think is really telling Tara. And the last line, he said, the question of how to move forward has been well aired for over a week now, and it's time for it to end. It's sort of Biden saying enough is enough.
like you can have your side conversations. We've done this now for almost two weeks and it's,
It's time to move forward because every minute that is spent talking about will he, won't he, what should we do? Can we push him out, et cetera, is time taken away from the campaign. And talking about Donald Trump, because whoever you're talking about is essentially the center of this campaign, right? Both sides don't want this to be a referendum on themselves. So the more that it's about Biden, the less it's about Trump. And that's an obvious thing that he doesn't want. And this conversation is focusing on him. But here's the thing. So will this same campaign
I guess, fever, democratic fever, you could say, happen again if, like you said, he slips, he falls, he says something that's so off the charts. If they find out why has a Parkinson's doctor been coming to visit him, if they have to finally release that, if you see a full neurological scan like you asked for in the White House briefing room, does that change the conversation again? What if we see the full Robert Herr transcript? And then
then we go back to the Hill again and give them another opportunity. So there are a lot of factors that you just laid out, which is why, you know, even if Biden is dug in, he is in an incredibly vulnerable position because I don't think he can survive politically another incident like what we saw on the debate stage. And I think one problem
problem tear that has not been resolved, one question that has not been answered to their detriment is what happened. Okay, Joe Biden and the campaign and the White House are trying to brush this off as a cold, as exhaustion, but everyone's had a cold and everyone's been exhausted. But what the American public saw that night was beyond that.
And there's still no explanation for what happened. And I think that's why people are disappointed and why they can't turn the page and why we are still talking about this, you know, even if it was exhaustion. So you think the George Stephanopoulos interview didn't stop the bleeding, essentially? Right.
Right, because he didn't really answer the question. He didn't answer the question. And when he was asked, was this a bad episode or a condition? What George Stephanopoulos was actually asking is, was this a medical episode? Not was this like a bad night for you, which I think that's how Biden interpreted it. That's how he answered the question. But people want to know, are you...
Are you medically, physically, mentally fit to take on this job? And again, if we don't know the source of what happened, which again was freezing up, trailing off, kind of just being totally confused in the moment.
What happened? We probably won't get any of that information unless we see a real medical report, which you asked about. Do you think there's any chance that we'll ever see a medical report, a neurological exam? No. They won't bring his doctors out there for a press conference with the press? No. And in fact, they've pointed to, you know, Trump's doctor,
from when Trump was president. Ronnie Jackson. Exactly. And said, you know, just use that as an example. Ronnie Jackson never came to the podium and answer questions about the president's health because he's still, you know, he is the president, but he also has, you know,
The right to some privacy when it comes to his health, at least that's what the White House argues. I suppose that's the big question, right, is whether he had the same amount of privacy as an average citizen because he is the commander in chief. But, you know, that's why they have reiterated that, look, we've released him.
the results of his annual physical, which includes a neurology exam every year. And there was no signs of Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, or any kind of other neurological disorder. But Tara, that was February. And here we are in July. Things change when you're older rapidly. It should be
probably more frequent, especially if you've had an episode like that. Which is why every single thing that, you know, the White House says, especially from the podium, is examined as,
So critically, and when Corinne Jean-Pierre said after the debate, he didn't have a medical exam when, in fact, he did have a checkup with his doctor. You know, it's an unforced error. Yeah, that was a big deal that she couldn't didn't get a trade, but also made me think, is she in the inner circle? What do you think?
I don't think she is in his inner circle. And, you know, I think it's been widely reported. We all understand who that is. These are advisors who have been with him for decades. And I think the most telling for me example was when the documents story dropped.
about Biden, I asked her in the briefing room, when did you first learn about this? And she said, when your team broke the story. Oh, wow. So she was sent out to the podium just very shortly after the story broke to field all these questions about the documents. And she wasn't part of that conversation. And right, Bob Bauer, who is his personal lawyer, and Anita Dunn is his wife, who's the comms director at the White House. They obviously knew about it.
before that. And these are people who have been by his side. You know, Anita Dunn, Bob Bauer, Steve Ruscetti, Bruce Reed. These are people who he could have blamed, right? Yeah. A lot of people are saying he should fire them, frankly. That's what I'm hearing from my sources. He made it a point during the interview with Stephanopoulos to say,
You know, it was all me. The debate prep was all me. Nobody else's fault. Because there was some reporting that his family blamed the aides for pushing him too hard. Right. And I have talked to people who have been really frustrated because they say nobody excels at facts and figures, especially if you're 81 years old. Also, like, why would you try to focus on that when he he does do so well, when he is, you
You know, being empathetic, trying to connect with voters, telling anecdotes about all of his experience and pushing back about what he has done to make life better for people. Why not focus on that instead of pumping him up with facts and figures, which sources have said was setting him up to fail? I mean, he wasn't even really that great with them four years ago. And he was a totally different candidate on the stage. Yeah. OK, so you're inside of the White House briefing room day to day. Yeah.
What's the feeling right now? Is there anger? Do you feel like among your colleagues that you've been deceived, that you've been kept at such an arm's length from him, that this story has sort of just exploded and that now you're facing backlash? I mean, what's the feeling inside right now? Well, I think there's always been a frustration about the lack of access
to the subject that we're covering. That's nothing new. And I think people are often shocked to hear it's much harder to cover President Biden than it was President Trump. Because as you very well know, that was probably the leakiest administration. And he gave access every day. He was like, come in the Oval and shout questions at me. Right.
made our jobs easy. He came to the briefing room every single day and sometimes went for over two hours. So, you know, we had direct access to the president. Whether what he was saying was truthful is a whole other question, right? But he was available for questions. Very available. And then, you know,
The Biden administration runs such a tight ship when it comes to being on message, when it comes to when the president is going to speak. And we haven't really seen cracks in that. Even in this story, there have been a couple White House officials, you
quoted on background only, no names attached who are willing to say, you know, he should step down and make room for somebody else. But overwhelmingly, you know, people...
are not going to go there. And that comes from the top, especially from when Ron Klain was the chief of staff. And I think the residual loyalty and understanding to just, you know, stay on course really resonates through this White House. And so in terms of the access to Biden, that's always been a frustration when you look at
amount of gaggles he does. You know, he's never stepped foot into the briefing room, which his predecessors have.
So, you know, do we wish we saw him more? Yes, of course. But we do see him plenty. It's just in a different capacity. It's a lot of teleprompter speeches. It's a lot of formal events that are not off the cuff. And I think that's the issue, too, is like if the debate really was a one off, the public would have been used to seeing Biden in that kind of context. He you know, and they would have said, well, we see him all the time and he's not like this, but they didn't.
They didn't see him in this sort of unrehearsed, off-the-cuff way. And that's, I think, why it was such a shock to the system. And it has been like this the entire time. I was just wondering if there were any signs that you were starting to see access change or the way they were handling him change. I saw some reporting that he's not always used a teleprompter, for example, in front of donors. To me, that seems extreme. You are meeting with supporters of your party. You are not
meeting with anyone who's antagonistic it's in a small environment like you probably shouldn't need a teleprompter talking to a small crowd of people who are literally there to set you i don't think that that is normal that happened recently right relatively recent yes uh because if fundraisers in the past he would walk through the room engage with supporters and now he is you know
in one place where he can read from the small screens that have the teleprompter up. So I think that has changed. He does have this press conference coming up on Thursday, which I think
Of all the things that we've said, you know, are a test for Biden. This one is extremely critical. But there's usually only two questions with the NATO press conference, right? Will he be standing there with other world leaders or is he alone? So this is actually a solo press conference. Oh, interesting. It's been on pad for, I think, seven months. Wow. And...
You know, they keep calling it a big boy press conference because... A big boy press conference. Are you kidding? Justin Zink of Bloomberg, in a formal question to Karine Jean-Pierre, was like, well, is this going to be, you know, a big boy press conference or one where he only takes a couple questions and she's... That are pre-selected, basically. The outlets are pre-selected. We don't know how many...
That means in the past, it's meant all five networks, along with the wires and the big print publications, not to mention sprinkled in with other outlets as well that represent different groups. So I think we'll have to see how many questions he's willing to take. But if you really wanted to get ahead of...
you know, damage control. He should have been doing this right away, not waiting over a week to do a network interview. He should have been, you know, engaging with reporters, which he did. You know, he actually did take a lot of questions as he was, you know, on a trip. And sometimes he'll stop before he boards or after he boards Air Force One and talks to reporters. And he was really defiant. And he entertained several questions about why he was staying in the race. But we should have been seeing that, you know,
The next morning. Also, it's like the worst footage ever. It's the sound behind you, the helicopters. It's not great footage. Which is why, again, this press conference is going to be really telling. And hopefully we will take, you know, questions from several reporters because that's what people want.
are looking at when they are asking, was this a one-off at the debate? Can he really handle like thinking on his feet on the fly without a script in front of him? So have you seen access change in the past few months, year? Have you noticed anything else besides the fact that he doesn't do pressers? No, I think it always depends on the situation and, you know,
the energy in the room, like after the Robert, her report dropped, you know, you'll probably remember this clearly. He did take questions and he got really fiery about it. Um, because he obviously wanted to defend himself when we were talking about what her wrote about his memory and about being a sympathetic character because of his age. And he wanted to show that he, uh,
you know, was actually sprightly and could remember small details. So he did take questions then. I think it's so calculated and I think they really map out the
what he's going to say, what's probably going to be asked. But I don't think that's different from any other administration. It's just that he doesn't do it as often. Except for maybe the Trump administration because there was no mapping anything out. So fly by the letter. They tried to give him some kind of roadmap and he would just blow through it. So that was obviously an extraordinary situation. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of weird how, I guess you could say, it probably seemed arbitrary to
in some ways, in hindsight, but now appears like there was a reason that they were kind of maneuvering him this way. They've always been concerned, I think, about the president making gaffes, saying something he's not supposed to at some point.
Last week, the press secretary spent the entire briefing essentially saying, you know, nothing to see here, no medical exam, no physical, no checkup with a doctor. Then you have Biden in a room of Democratic governors who said, oh, yeah, after the debate, I had a checkup with my doctor. So I think it is meant to.
in some ways to protect him from saying the wrong thing, which voters find endearing when he says something that's clearly from the heart, that's clearly what he's thinking. I think that actually plays well for him, but they do have a job also and they try to shield him from any missteps. They're like micromanaging. It's borderline like anal in some ways. Like,
Did you see this spat that Maureen Dowd, who's a legendary New York Times columnist, had with T.J. Ducklow, who's on the Biden campaign, spokesperson over whether Biden said goodest or not?
It's just like, seriously, you're going to get in a spat with her over that? Because even if he said good as or goodest, neither made sense in the sentence. So I think, you know, his team is just fiercely protective. But in doing that, I think, you know, the American public probably feels disconnected from their president. Oh, yeah. I've always thought that.
I was like, why isn't he using the bully pulpit? You have it. Why didn't they take the interview with CBS, you know, the Super Bowl interview? Any reasonable person is going to be like, well, what are you hiding from? Exactly. You know, and obviously I'm a reporter. I'm biased in that sense because I want him to know as much as possible. I want to hear what's going on in his mind. But I think so do people at home. People want an unscripted
They want to know his organic thoughts and and how that affects them. And so in stepping so far away from that, I think didn't do them any favors when they did put him on stage. You know, the biggest night of his reelection campaign so far. And he was out of practice. So, yes, he did practice. He had been practicing for four days.
But sure. I mean, that's what Trump's team said. They're like, listen, he takes he does interviews all day long so he can handle anything. That's why he doesn't practice for debate. He clearly had some zingers ready to go. Right. Yeah, they downplayed it. He was like, well, but all these other things were going on under my great leadership. So he was he did practice probably, you know, not to the extent that.
that others would, but I think they also wanted to, you know, tamp down expectations for Trump, which by the way, where's Donald Trump? Yeah. He's been quiet for 10 days or something like that. He hasn't been on camera. He's going on Hannity, Sean Hannity. I bet you they're telling him like, do not speak, let Joe Biden suffer. Cause this has been Biden's worst week, right? They have stressed that.
that this is a very different Donald Trump. Yeah, because it's like freedom is on the line right now. Well, he has a lot at stake, of course. But, you know, the amount of discipline that we saw on the debate stage and now...
is really a different person compared to four years ago. But I think he understands that silence in and of itself is a strategy and they want to, you know, let Democrats eat themselves. Exactly. I have to say Tara in talking to sources, that is one thing that they've all brought up, which is that,
The Democrats are making this a self-fulfilling prophecy in that they don't think it would have been that bad if you just ask voters. But because so many people in the party, people with power, people who hold office were out here, you know, sounding alarm bells, you know,
They actually put a spotlight on the president's performance that they think would have been one quick news cycle. OK, he had a bad moment. Let's move on. But because of the reaction from within the own party, it's ballooned into what it has. I don't know. It was so bad, though. He really got crushed. But it fulfilled the quiet conversation. Like it answered the quiet questions that everyone had.
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It has been difficult to write stories about Biden's age. It has been difficult to cover stories about Biden's age. They are very protective over him. They've gone to war with the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal. I've gotten my fair share of nasty grams. I can only imagine what it's like to cover him day to day like you do. They set this ball up to be spiked in some ways, right? And the party's terrified. They don't want the top of their ticket, which they already knew was 81 years old.
tied to Trump, a convicted felon for over a year. He needed to come out of the gate and have a strong performance. Correct. He had to prove, which is why when we're having the conversation about how other incumbents have a terrible first debate, it's not exactly a fair comparison.
Obama didn't have something to prove in the same way Biden did, which was that I'm not too old for the job. So there was one clear test for him. And I think, you know, he failed that night. And now they're trying to clean it up. And nobody knows how this is going to end. But again, it is up to
to Biden, ultimately. So you think that this story is going to play out for the rest of the summer? There's no end. There's no like, okay, Schumer throws his hands up and say, enough's enough, we're done. I don't know that he could control the party. I mean, that's the other thing. There is an end, and that's August 7th. August 7th is officially the end because they are going to vote and
they're going to take a roll call. And if they all, all the delegates say Biden, which they will because he earned that in the primary, it's going to be a lock for them. But no pressure campaign is going to make Biden hand those delegates to somebody else or back out. I think it would have to be
all the congressional leaders and some and his, you know, personal advisors and other extremely influential and powerful Democrats. And frankly, his wife, if Joe Biden were to say, listen, Joe, I just don't think you should do this. It's not worth it. Let's just enjoy retirement, which, by the way, she's still working. So maybe that's not the right phrasing. But if she were to say,
Joe, let's, you know, why don't you step aside? Let's move to Delaware again. Yeah, let's hang out at the beach with our grandkids. I mean, I think that would be a really compelling argument if it came from her, which based on our reporting, it's not going to because she is right now his fiercest advocate. She is on the campaign trail. She's traveling a ton and she's telling everybody that, well, listen, that Joe is not going anywhere. And that's, I think, the other point I want to make is that
You do have Democrats coming out. You had Senator Tester. He's probably not going to win reelection in Montana. But before Biden had a week showing, by the way, it was going to be a tough race for him. Trump wins Montana by like, what, 20 points or something like that at the top of the ticket? Was it anomaly? Yeah.
Right. Right. But it's people like Tester, though. It's the swing state members that are coming out now. And they're not calling for him explicitly to step down. They're saying, you know, Biden has to do X, Y and Z. But my question is, or what? OK, if Biden doesn't do all these things on your list that you would like to see him do.
So what? I mean, that you're not going to force him out. You can't. You can't. 25th Amendment, right? Republicans are talking about that. But that's like forcing him out of office. But I mean, you can't force him out of the race. And that is a side conversation that is happening among Republicans, because I think it's a fair question. If you're willing to say he doesn't have...
what he needs, you know, to serve as a candidate, then why does he have what it takes to serve as president between now and November? And that's a question that Democrats, I think, have to answer too, if they're willing to say he shouldn't be the candidate based on the debate performance. So,
I don't know, maybe I am totally wrong and Biden will come to this decision on his own. I just don't see how it plays out in the next, you know, few weeks. You don't think the polling will get worse? You think that this is as bad as it gets? That's it? No, I don't think that. I mean, I think the polling is going to be really telling and important. And it hasn't really fully shown the impact of the debate yet. Right.
When it comes especially to those down ballot races, that's why there are so many unknowns that we can't assume. But I guess if Democrats down the ticket were hemorrhaging support,
you know, again, back to what some people were telling me that he's putting himself before the party, they could go back and make that case to him and say, look at what's happening in the House and the Senate. We're going to lose everything. Yeah. I was told that there's a resignation that like they're all just going to go down with the ship. That's the way they're feeling right now. They really didn't have a chance to win the Senate again. Like the map was terrible for them. Right. Like Republicans are poised to win the Senate. Right.
Yes. The House, they're different. You know, a lot of newer House members want to stay in their positions. They're in swing districts. You know, they're frontline Democrats and they're worried. And a lot of them, frankly, have been pulling ahead of him for a long time. But that's the sense that I've been getting from talking to leadership is that they're not going to do anything. I mean, imagine this. Trump is the president and he has the House and the Senate. I can imagine that. Yeah. Yeah.
and the campaign's strongest argument that they've been making even before the debate. Not that he...
is going to have all this power along with both chambers, but just the hypothetical of if Trump wins, what is his legislative agenda going to look like? And how close is he going to be to accomplishing those? How close is he to nominating another Supreme Court justice? So they're trying to draw this contrast. And I just don't know if that's enough at this point, because
you know, Trump is a liar. Is that a winning campaign message? Or do you need, you know, something offensive to to be able to say, you know, this is what I'm going to do. And they they do try to bring up Biden's record as much as possible. But I think
In this moment, it's hard for that to break through when these conversations are still happening about whether he's the right person to execute that agenda. If I were talking to the president, I'd want him to answer,
Why are you better than Vice President Harris? That's a good question. Why do you think you are the only Democrat who can win? And who knows what he would say, but I think that's a fair question because that's what he's really dug into based on everything he's been saying privately and publicly. It's definitely the quiet conversation around town. What does this say about what he thinks about Kamala Harris and his vice president? I think he would try to pivot and say, okay,
you know, she is the best vice president that I could ever have. And she could totally quit for the job. But I'm just but but this is about what the people voted for. And in the primary, they selected me to be their nominee. Well, there was barely a primary vote. Sure. There's that too. But that's the way the system is set up. I wanted to ask you about Kamala. Does it feel like there's a little bit of momentum or movement for her right now?
even within the White House. I mean, it must be kind of awkward. If this is her moment, it's now. Of course, she wouldn't want to get ahead of him because that could backfire. But do you sense a little bit of a comal of like boomlet or something happening? I think this is her moment because this is where she shines when she has to defend something, when she can litigate an issue. And she obviously is a former prosecutor. So when she has to be on the defensive, you know, she...
was out there immediately defending President Biden after the debate performance, and she hasn't stopped. And I think, you know, that is resonating with people because she can show her loyalty. And you're absolutely right. If she were to say anything else, it's...
it could backfire because she would be viewed as, you know, trying to push him out of the way in any, even if it was a small thing. Do you sense ambition though around her? Are you seeing polling kind of being distributed that shows her doing better than, than Biden? Yeah. I mean the, you know, there are polls that show that in fact, the campaign's own polling show that she wasn't that far behind Trump and within striking distance of,
So, you know, that doesn't help Joe Biden's case. Trump is also already testing out nicknames on her, right? That's the latest. So, you know, he sees her as a threat. Part of this, right, is like, we don't know, we can imagine, but we don't know what the oppo
Attack is going to be on Harris, but she has been vetted already, of course, but you just never know how that's going to play out when it is actually Harris who's the nominee. What is that going to look like? And so there's a lot of speculation, but that's what it is right now until Biden decides.
he's out of the race. If you could make a prediction that we would say he's not going to step down this week, it won't be happening anytime soon. I definitely don't think it's going to happen this week because it was actually a gift to Biden that NATO is hosted here in the U.S. this year because it rotates and it's at a different country. I think you and I have actually been at a NATO conference together. We went to the one in Brussels together. Yeah. Oh,
Oh, and, and Italy together. And Italy. So Biden will have the opportunity to kind of, you know, fluff his feathers when it comes to his foreign policy experience and putting the U S on the world stage, being viewed as a leader, you know, getting NATO to come together in this way. And this, you know, he will have so many opportunities because, uh,
it is here in Washington where all these world leaders are getting together. So he's going to try to remind people that there are two foreign conflicts and, you know, he's going to continue to ask, can you imagine if Trump were, uh,
president right now. And of course, Trump would be here if it were me. But I do think this is a critical opportunity for Biden to stress that point, which he will. And, you know, he also has the press conference. And then on Friday, he's going to Michigan. So that kind of shows his energy and his stamina. So he has endless opportunities to try to course correct Biden.
So I don't think it'll happen this week. But again, there are so many unknowns about his performance. He could call, you know, Macron, I don't know, Sarkozy or, you know, refer to say the wrong name and it could start up a whole other firestorm. Right. Like, is he able to stare down Putin? You know, look at Kim Jong-un in the eye if he's calling Georgia Maloney president.
I don't know the wrong name. Right. But we just don't know, which is why, you know, the pressure on him is so palpable because everything he does right now is a test of whether he's fit. I don't think it's sustainable. I mean, I will just say there's a long time between now and November, but again, you don't have until November to decide that the convention is like a month away. Yeah.
So there's not that much time if...
Democrats really want to force him out. And, you know, how does that look? I don't know, because we've never been in this situation before. But that's what the campaign is certainly asking is, you know, do you really want to be at the center of all this uncertainty and chaos for the party? Or do you want to fall in line and get behind the person who earned the delegates?
in the primaries. That's their case. I don't know if it's going to be enough, but I don't think that nine or 10 House Democrats who are publicly, you know, talking about Biden stepping aside is really substantial when you think about how many lawmakers are unwilling to do that. I mean, what they're saying in private is,
To me, it just doesn't matter, right? Because until you're willing to go on the line and put your name out there and commit to this belief, it's just speculation. It's just a conversation.
And so there's a reason why they're not willing to do that. They're trying to hedge their bets about whether Biden will ultimately stay in or stay out. And it's an impossible situation for them. But in the end, I don't think enough people will come out for there to be this like groundswell of opposition against Joe Biden. Weijia, this was amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for having me. You know, I'm a longtime fan, so I love...
talking to you. I'm a longtime fan since we were White House correspondents together, literally shooting our spots right next to each other, CBS, ABC. I was very disappointed when you left the beat, but I'm so happy to see you thriving. And I love your podcast. So thank you for having me on. Of course. Thank you. And keep on it. Keep on this story. Love hearing you in the briefing room, pushing hard, trying to get the answer to the people.
Who knows? Maybe we'll get that full medical record one day. We're asking. Don't you worry. That was another episode of Somebody's Gotta Win. I'm your host, Tara Palmieri. If you like this show, please share it with your friends, rate it, and subscribe. If you like my reporting, please go to puck.news slash Tara Palmieri and sign up for my newsletter, The Best and the Brightest. You can use the discount code Tara20. I'll be back on Thursday.
