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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent, and this is Somebody's Gotta Win.
Like I told you earlier this week when I called it Biden's Hell Week, I said this would be the ultimate test of Biden's political survival now that Congress is back in session and he has to face the ravenous press corps on Thursday for the press conference after the NATO summit. But little did I think that Nancy Pelosi would just change
charge out of the gates on Wednesday on Morning Joe and say that Biden needs to make a decision soon, suggesting that he should reconsider his adamant decision to stay in the race. Remember when he said only God Almighty could convince him to step down? Well, I had been hearing from sources that she does not want him to run for reelection and
And she had clearly sent a signal out to the party that for all of the members who have been privately venting to party leaders and among themselves and to journalists about what Biden at the top of the ticket means for them, a wipeout, some of them never returning to Washington, particularly those in the swing states, that they are now free to speak out and say what they have wanted to say out loud, that they do not want Biden to run.
And it has been chaos in the Capitol. I can tell you that. Members are just looking for direction from leadership and they haven't gotten it. So they are just going out on a limb and they're hedging their bets. And right now they're hedging it against Biden. Now, Nancy Pelosi also said that she doesn't want Biden to make his decision until after the NATO conference, which is today, Thursday. And it's
It's also another opportunity for him to have another unscripted press conference that could go haywire, which could also just prompt more members of Congress to call on him to step down. It seems like the White House is already bracing for that. They lined up a sit-down interview with Lester Holt of NBC for next Monday during the Republican National Convention's primetime schedule. I don't understand why they're doing that. It seems absurd to me. Why not use the RNC to take the attention off Joe Biden and
Unless, of course, he's announcing during that interview that he's stepping down. It's all very bizarre, but it seems like the White House is working from sheer panic mode and not a lot of thought. And then on Wednesday, when you think it couldn't get worse, you have George Clooney writing an op-ed in the New York Times saying that Biden should step down and that the man he sought a fundraiser that he hosted for him weeks ago was the same man he sought the debate. I
I mean, if you've lost George Clooney, oh wait, another George, George Stephanopoulos told someone on the street after he interviewed Biden that he can't serve for four more years. We are in some crazy times, I can tell you that. Obviously, I've been calling my sources in Mar-a-Lago and I'm told that Trump couldn't be happier. But of course, they're all just holding their breath.
They know that if Biden is not the person they are running against, they have to recraft an entire campaign and he has a much, much harder chance of winning. I'm told Trump hasn't even made up his mind about his VP yet. And he has to make that decision in the coming days before he's nominated at the Republican National Convention. It's because he's not really into any of the people
that he's considering, but he's pretty much narrowed it down to J.D. Vance and Doug Burgum. At the end of the day, I'm told that Trump really doesn't think that the vice president is important to his electoral chances. He doesn't think it moves the needle for him politically.
And he doesn't really care for stories that aren't about him. Not surprising at all. But an aide told me that he technically has to do it before the Republican National Convention next week. So I was told to expect an announcement at his rally this weekend on Saturday. I'll be at the Republican National Convention next week in Wisconsin reporting on the ground and bringing you lots of great interviews. So definitely tune in. We will have more podcasts than usual. But really, the whole thing is fluid.
I'm told that the speaking lineup hasn't been decided. So I expect a lot of changes next week. And who knows, maybe Biden will actually end up outshining the Trump show. On today's show, I talk with a true political insider about
a pretty concerning poll out of Wisconsin showing Trump up five points to Joe Biden in a state that he won by one point, a true purple state. We talk about what all this means and how older women might be the true deciders in this election.
Rachel Pearson is an ultimate political mover and shaker in Washington, D.C. She has been working on the Hill. She worked as a Senate aide. She ran a few Senate campaigns. She worked on presidential campaigns as well. She's a rare bipartisan who speaks to both leadership in the Senate from the Republicans and the Democrats. So she has a consulting firm.
And she also runs a nonprofit called Engage, which is all about empowering women. And we are going to talk a lot about that, especially as it relates to this election. She knows all about the power of female voters, and she's been working hard to make sure that there is bipartisan support on both sides for that.
But first, because I know you've got your ear so close to the ground and we are coming off a pretty wild week in Washington after this debate, what are you hearing from Senate Republicans and Senate Democrats? What are they thinking after this debate? Hi, Tara. Thanks for having me. Let's see. I think Senate Republicans, I can best describe both at the member level and at the senior aid level, is watching and observing. I mean, they are
like sort of, if you want to say, everybody else who's following the post-debate fallout, I would say trying to stay very disciplined, very focused, keeping the candidates focused and disciplined, and waiting to see what happens. There is a tremendous sense, I think, that they are succeeding and that they're winning. And
And so they want to stay the course of what's been working for them. Yeah. Republicans are just keeping their mouth shut. Yeah. They feel like this is to their advantage, of course, and they're winning and doing well. And so let's just stay the course. The Democrats story is very, very different. There is a.
Great anxiety, great stress, frustration, concern. I would say the number one sort of overarching sense that I get is there's not a plan. You know, there's if you if you sort of peel back the layers, you'd almost think, well, surely there must be some sort of plan about how we get through this moment. Right.
Either a reinvigorated Biden campaign that seems to be, you know, on the right footing or a graceful transition, if you will. And I don't believe that there is that plan. I mean, these things are hard and this is unprecedented, but I think there's a lot of internal work.
obviously discussion, concern, probably fighting and frustration because they're not quite sure what to do in this moment. Were you surprised to hear Senator Mark Warner say that he wanted to have a meeting about this with Senate Democrats and then canceled it last minute? I wasn't surprised. I mean, look, the Democrats,
You know, they believe wholeheartedly that they want to stay in power and they should. That's, you know, that's that's they you should believe that to be in it. So I wasn't surprised, per se, that some were stepping out, particularly from the Senate perspective, when they have so many incumbents that are running in battleground states. And you tend to, at least right now, I think a lot of America is so focused on if you're
presidential campaign and what happens. But right beneath that layer, if you will, or right alongside, you have Democrats who are in control of the United States Senate. Chuck Schumer is leader. And they have a number of
incumbents up for reelection in states that have been up to now doing well and hanging in there, if you will, or even running a bit ahead of the president. But there's great concern about how this will impact them. It's still relatively early in political life to feel secure in anything. So particularly from a Senate standpoint of view, it makes perfect sense to me that these senators who
don't want to give up the majority are very focused on the ramifications of this. And do you sense that they're putting pressure on Chuck Schumer? Because he hasn't really said much at all. I mean, he said he supports Biden, but it's not like he's said publicly to his conference, like enough of this. I mean, the feeling I get from senators is that they stay in line, right? Like they're not the ones to revolt. It's usually the House that you hear a lot more sound out of. And that's what it's been like so far. Yeah. Yeah.
I think there's what's in front of the camera and I think there's what's behind the camera. Always. There is no way that somebody that as much as a political animal and a successful political animal, as is Senator Chuck Schumer is not thinking about this deeply and is not talking to his colleagues about it. I mean, there's just no way that he is not having these conversations. And I would say conversely, you know,
on the Republican side of the aisle, there's no way that Republican Senate leadership is not having these conversations and conjecturing and thinking about how this plays and trying to read tea leaves because they very much, of course, want the gavels back and to take control of the Senate. And it's close. So my best proclamation is if they look like they're not saying anything or they're quiet, I wouldn't take that silence, you know, in front of the camera to be indicative of what's happening behind the camera.
There's too much at stake for everybody. Right. And there's so much money that's being raised, hundreds of millions of dollars to take control of this one chamber. Is there anything that's happening right now that you think will play out in the next few days? I was told from a senior Hill aide on the Democratic side, call me in a day or so and then I'll have a better understanding of where we're at.
because there are so many moving parts. Like, do you get the feeling that by Wednesday, we'll know, because we're recording this on Tuesday, that we'll have a better understanding of Biden's health support? Or do you think we started the week exactly where it'll probably end? I think there'll be movement this week. And I just want to say, Tara, quickly to reflect back, we're talking about the Senate, but, you know, the House, you know, Hakeem Jeffries, Ranking Member Jeffries, and Speaker Johnson are having these same conversations. I mean, you know, the Democrats have high hopes of taking the House back.
Republicans have high hopes to keep it. Four seats, that's all it is. Four seats. Too close for many, for comfort, for anybody. And you've seen a number of House members come out and have something to say. So I would say both chambers are actively engaged in thinking about it. To your point, I don't think we end the week exactly where we start by virtue of the calendar. And that's a very inside Washington thing to say. But just for those that
have not heard that expression. I don't know what the heck it means. It means that we are just coming back after the congressional 4th of July recess. So members have, they watched the debate probably from their districts or from their home states or on some vacation. So they have not been here. They've not been together. Um,
They may have spoken on the phone, but they have not been physically together until probably yesterday or last evening. If this is Tuesday, they came back into town on Monday evening. So that's one thing that's a forcing mechanism is they're in the same place talking to each other face to face. The other thing is, as you know well, NATO is in town in Washington, D.C., for the first time, which is historic. And so much work and effort has been put into these plans.
And the president will be up front and be making remarks and will be actively seen this week, I would imagine, by members of Congress and by staff who will be seeing firsthand. So that's why, you know, if there's any sort of blip or I don't want to say blip about something so serious, but if he seems serious,
repeatedly off the mark or there's something that happens that brings further question. I think that can push things farther on a certain category. But the other thing to remember, which, again, we follow this because it's what we do for a living, is next week is the Republican convention. And I don't know if you've been struck with this like I have, but, you know, Republicans have been pretty quiet publicly while all of this is going on. I mean, as I said earlier, they're certainly not quiet behind the cameras.
And the Trump campaign has lots of decisions that they need to make about the convention and vice presidential picks and so on. But they have a big week next week. And so, you know, they're going to be competing for in some ways for your attention. I mean, next week could be a crescendo of all kinds of things at one time. I mean, the Republicans, of course, are.
hope that they have a fair and unbumpy road and a great convention. And so depending on how things play out with President Biden, it all it all makes for lots of unknowns like sports. Right. It's a photo finish, perhaps. If Biden can get through this week, right, then next week will probably not be all about him anymore.
It'll be about Trump. It'll be about the Republican National Convention that will buy him some time. But I do think if there is another moment on the center stage and it might not be for him until the DNC. But then again, that's a scripted moment. You have a teleprompter there. He might be carried until the summer if he's able to avoid any more, you know, massive attacks.
Slip ups, mistakes, senior moments. We do have a debate in September. Will he actually do the debate? You know, Trump's going to want to do it. And that's just another opportunity for the public to see him. But he does have a press conference this week and press conferences are not easy. And the press is overwhelming.
hungry right now for some red meat. They're angry at the White House for protecting him for so long and for not having press conferences. And I think congressional leaders are probably going to be looking at that, too. You would know far better than I would, just to two points, to go back to the debate. I mean...
If I'm President Trump, I don't know that you need to debate him again. Again, I am not privy. I haven't read the agreement, so I don't know the... No, either one of them can back out. I don't know how contractually committed former President Trump is to debating, but if I can make a plausible
scenario where you say to him, why should you do it again? I mean, why would you give, let's say President Biden is excelling and found a step and, you know, is hitting it out of the park as they say, why give him an opportunity to appeal directly to the American people in September? So I would just say, I don't know. Again, I'm
not don't know what anybody's contractually obligated to, but I wouldn't necessarily say that President Trump needs to feel like he needs to debate him again. But on the flip side, if Biden is doing so well, he might want that other opportunity to show Biden without a teleprompter. So it goes both ways. The thing going back to what I said earlier, which is happening perhaps a little bit out of the public eye, is the Senate races in these next couple of weeks and why the
the lack of time until election day, the lack of time to buy television, the lack of time to, you know, make you recut your ads if they've already been made, the lack of time to poll and be exactly sure and see what's popping in your district and state is, is that even, you know, if President Biden
is performing admirably in front of a teleprompter or not, let's just say they feel like they've gotten through this really tough moment. If their Senate candidates are dropping in the polls and so on and so forth, that does not take him off of the hot seat.
I think that that is the thing internally that can't be forgotten because of these senators that are ever reelected. I mean, I've talked to some House members who just feel resigned to the fact that this is how it's going to be. There are going to be some frontline Democrats that go down with the ship. Like if he decides he wants to stay on, we all go down with him. And that's just how it's going to be. People don't split ticket vote anymore. It's just not a thing the way it used to be. It's not.
But I, you know, I think unpredictable things happen. I certainly grew up and learned from very smart campaign political people that I knew that ticket splitting wasn't a thing. It doesn't happen. And we've all been schooled in that. And the data has supported that. But, you know, every once in a while, things happen that point out that things can change, whether it's a ballot initiative on an issue, you know,
That surprises people. That's true.
You know, if you're a 50 plus woman, 50 to 63 year old woman that's feeling a lot of anxiety about the economy or a lot of anxiety about immigration or a lot of anxiety about any number of things, do you say no?
I'm going to split and hope they hold each other in check. I don't know. I mean, I think it's too soon to say that there aren't people that will make those calculations. In this particular environment and year, I think that there are some unusual factors.
Also, these incumbent senators, the Republicans are very proud of the recruitment that they've done and their candidates. And there's some very, very strong, thoughtful people running as Republicans for the United States Senate. But conversely, you know, this group of Democrats are seasoned veterans in complicated states. I mean, Senator Casey, Senator Brown, Senator Baldwin, Senator Tester. We're not talking about people that haven't been able to prove themselves.
the ability to carry independent voters or carry, in Democrats' case, moderate Republicans. So they, I would say, they're a strong group of people fighting to defend their seats against some talented candidates. Right. So speaking of Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin, there is a new AARP poll that came out. You sent it to me this morning. You work with AARP. And
it is based on Wisconsin, which is a purple state, swing state, you could say. And a Morning Consult Bloomberg poll from last week, about July 1st to 3rd, I think they did some polling. It was right after the debate, showed Biden still up two points in Wisconsin. And they say with polling, like, don't trust the snap polls. You need a little bit of time for the narrative to marinate and for people to really take in what has happened in a recent event. And
It shows in a matchup, head on head, Trump, Biden, Trump up five points to Biden in Wisconsin. Let's not forget that Biden won Wisconsin by one point in 2020 and Trump won in 2016 against Hillary Clinton in Wisconsin. So this is a really big deal. And I want to also point out the credibility of this poll.
The two pollsters, it's a bipartisan poll. One of the pollsters is Tony Fabrizio, who is one of Trump's pollsters. The other pollster is one of Biden's favorite pollsters, John Anzalone. So they came together and worked on this poll. And you
You also have if RFK Jr., if he's in the race, it gives Trump a nine point lead over Joe Biden in Wisconsin. That's pretty shocking. I was wondering, what do you make of this? How does this impact the senator as well? The reason why I sent it is because I think a couple of things. One, I think this is the first poll that the AARP has done post debate. So that makes it interesting. They have a very large polling budget, so they will actively poll people.
They have very large membership, 38 million Americans, but they actively poll in battleground states. So this is the first one, as you said, post-debate, which makes it interesting. And I do just want to underscore, because I'm not an academic who reads polls for a living, but I will say in the case of the AARP, these are bipartisan pollsters and the sample size is quite large.
So they're very they're very studied and they're very well respected. And I think, you know, to make of it what you just said, Trump leading by five points in a head to head against Biden is incredible.
is a message that goes to the chaos that we're feeling this week about Democrats uncertain about their ability to win in November. And I would just say, as it is an AARP poll, that's important to note is that it's not just that it's five points in the big head-to-head, but that Trump leads by nine points nationally.
with the 50-plus voter. So the older Americans get, the more his support increases, and including a 17-point lead with voters 50 to 64. That's huge. It is huge. Because they're more likely to vote. Yeah. The thing is that most people don't realize, and I didn't realize until I sort of dove into it all, is the older Americans, and let's call older Americans, and it's certainly not old by my stretch of the imagination, but the 50-plus voter is
and the 65 plus voter will vote in very, very high numbers. And they have historically always outvoted young people in this country. So that is why thoughtful and smart people on both sides of the aisle track really carefully what seniors are thinking and feeling and what issues are
priorities for them. And again, I use the term senior quite closely because 50 is a mere baby to many people. But I also just want to say, and a flag to the ticket splitting thing, or the ticket splitting idea, is that Senator Baldwin from the state of Wisconsin is holding her own and is still leading her Republican opponent in Wisconsin, which is sort of, as you
articulated earlier goes counter to the narrative that people aren't splitting tickets. Is that a question of people having not fully decided yet? Does that tighten up? Or are we really looking at some Democrats that run ahead of Senator Biden? That's a very
a very real question that these Senate candidates are and existing incumbent senators are thinking about. It does help, too, that the Republicans are having their convention next week in Wisconsin. I mean, that helps to really spread their message. So I can only imagine that this bump might even increase after the convention, right? I'm going there next week.
We'll see how it all goes. Trump has made some disparaging comments about Milwaukee and privately that got out in the press. And yet, you know, he's still doing better in that state right now. And we'll see what happens after the convention. But yeah, I think it's really interesting what you said about older voters, that they are more consistent. There's such so much focus on winning over Gen Z, right? Like it's like,
It feels like it's all you hear about. But yet these voters are more, they're more reliable. And for a while they favored Biden. Wasn't that the narrative that Biden was winning with older voters?
Does this feel like a shift to you? Well, I think, again, and not to get chew in the weeds, but when you think about the older voter, you have to separate it into two groups, the 50 to 64 and the 65 plus. And everybody that's listening to us, if they are not in that category, certainly has parents or friends in that category. And this will resonate with them. Right.
the difference, you know, 50 to 64 year old people that are still working and, you know, trying to save for retirement and in many cases and perhaps feeling very insecure about where America is in their mind or how their own personal financial security is accruing. And then the 65 plus generation or 65 plus individuals, they, you know, are either living only on their social security, which over 50 percent of them are, which is
incredibly scary, should be for all of us and a great challenge for them, or they have some combination of being prepared for retirement. But to your other point, I just want to say there is always great romance about the youth voter and maybe it's just youth culture as a whole. Maybe it's our
maybe it's just our general youth obsession, but the media seems to love, I say with respect, but they seem to consistently be very excited to talk about the youth vote, to cover the youth vote. And that clearly is a demographic. It's a consumer market. I mean, there are lots of reasons, but the vote will, this election will be,
be decided by the 50 plus voter. And I'll go out on a limb and it's a limb that's substantiated by previous elections. This election will be decided by the 50 plus woman voter in this country. So, and that's not a story that I think that you see, uh,
reported very much, you know, you and I could wax on for a long time about whether it's a use of sex culture, you know, whether there's sexism in it, a whole bunch of factors, but it is, it is the truth. But if that's the case, then why wouldn't the Democrats want to have Kamala at the front of the ticket? Well,
Well, I think smart people should be asking themselves that question. I mean, if you believe the consistent polling that the AARP has done in battleground states, the 50 to 64 year old woman is undecided at this moment. And so who is authentically...
going to speak to them and seem to that voter like they have a plan and have command of policy decisions that will make their lives better. And
You could make the argument that, you know, Vice President Harris is, you know, speaking to her own crew, if you if you will, sort of in that way, it could be could be very credible in that regard. Right. This goes back to your work at Engage and what you're doing there, empowering women. Tell me more about your work with Engage and how that's brought you to come to this conclusion that 50 plus women will decide a selection. I would say that.
was really struck when I found it in Gage. I was motivated by a couple of things, but one of the things that really motivated me was I was sitting at a typical Washington dinner and you and I have done that a lot together and a pollster said, you know, women are the deciders in nearly every congressional
district in this country. And I had probably known that in my life and heard that, but it rang out to me in sort of a new way. And I thought, God, that's a lot of power. I mean, women have a lot of power. And where is the disconnect between that power that they have as deciders of elections and
and then impacting the legislative agenda at the federal or state level. So I founded Engage, which is dedicated to women's economic security and the advocating of bipartisan solutions.
common sense bipartisan solutions, because contrary to how reasonable that sounds, there was nobody doing it in quite the same way that Engage is doing it. And I wanted to make the argument, hopefully successfully, to women that their political engagement matter, that they are the deciders, and perhaps that
a great, if you will, hope for us in making Washington at least a little less dysfunctional. So we've been working at that. But it really brought home to me and working with both the public and private sector about women's power in the elections and also contrary to narratives around things like reproductive rights and right to life positions, which can be for a certain segment of the population,
big vote motivators, wherever you fall on that issue, we know from polling and I would argue just good common sense that when a woman's head hits her pillow every night, she is most worried about her financial security and the financial security of her family and those that she loves. You know, as they say, all politics is local. All politics is about your personal ability to, you know, to navigate your financial challenges. So, um,
that was a lot of the motivation for me starting and continues to motivate me. And also, I'll just say the chance to elevate a lot of amazing bipartisan work, which goes on here. Again, going back to the phrase, which is an original that I made earlier about in front of the camera and behind the camera. The truth is, is in Washington, there's some very remarkable bipartisan relationships. There's very remarkable bipartisan legislation that is drafted, that is being worked
on and lots of people working very hard on it. It just doesn't, I think, serve the narrative that people are trying to tell right now. And so it gets pushed down. So we're trying to elevate those successes up. Yeah, you always give me hope whenever I speak to you about the good work that's being done, the bipartisan handholding. You'll tell me about senators that are getting together. And usually it's women that are the ones who are willing to sit down and do the hard work and try to advance legislation. And I
Even just like the stories I've heard about like Kyrsten Sinema getting together with her colleagues on the Republican side of the aisle and talking to them about like, how do we work together? And she's sort of become a villain for holding up a lot of Democratic priorities. But at the same time, behind the scenes, she's also worked across the aisle to do some good as well. And I know behind the scenes, it's people like you, which people don't understand from the outside that it's often people who are behind the scenes pushing those meetings to happen.
and arranging them and hosting those dinners, which you always host. Rachel often hosts dinners with members of the Senate and Congress and brings them together from both sides to try to get them to actually work together. Well, you're kind to give me the opportunity to talk about it. I am...
I'm an evangelist, if I may be so bold, for bipartisanship. And I would just, you know, as I say to myself every day, there is no other way. I mean, this is the way our system, which to me is quite remarkable and very, very special, is meant to function.
So, you know, there's also the other impetus for engage, which hopefully this will resonate with anybody that's listening to us is the irony is we are spending a lot of time talking about how divided we are. But bipartisanship in any major poll, whether it's Pew, USA Today, Gannett, any major poll people.
in the high 70s, 80s and low 90s say they want bipartisanship. So I also challenge this idea, too, that, you know, Americans don't want to hear about the work being done because I think that they do. And I think they're desperate for news to give them some hope and
also desperate for the people that are elected to help make their lives better. I mean, that's what everybody's supposed to be doing that's elected. But again, we're living in a time where the politics rules the day and, you know, politics is not governing.
They're two very different things. And right now we are full on politics and it's good sport and it's fun. You and I are very engaged in it for a living and it's exciting. But it is not the hard work of governing, which is about building consensus.
And people giving a little and getting a little. A lot of bartering. A lot of bartering. And whatever happens, whatever happens in the Senate or the House, unless we're way off, it'll be close. Right. I mean, it'll be a seat or two either way. Maybe more, though. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. I don't.
The thing that I can be certain of is that the people that are motivated to vote will vote. They always have. And so if you're reading polls or you're concerned about your team doing well or not doing well, make sure that you're looking at who we know is going to turn out as opposed to those people, those segments of the population that are a bit iffier on Election Day.
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Okay, we got a question from Chris, who is the amazing producer who puts the show together every week. He wants to know, Rachel, is bipartisanship even possible? Oh, thank you, Chris. That's my favorite question. And it's my favorite question because the answer is yes, but we all have some work to do to make it happen. And that is we need to be very aware that the incentive structure, the way that it exists is
does not celebrate bipartisanship or does not reward bipartisanship in the way that it needs to be rewarded. So for instance, I don't have these numbers in front of me and I wish I did, but the number of people that vote in primaries in this country is shockingly, abhorrently low.
So if you are not engaged, for instance, in voting and primaries and you're complaining about the candidates that you're given or the candidates that your party nominates, well, then that's that's a problem because the numbers are shockingly low. The other thing I would just say is that when you're talking to members or when you're thinking about it,
or having political conversations, we need to start saying things like, what is the compromise here? Like, we have to agree to disagree. And then you have a powerful platform just in this podcast of being able to lift up cases of bipartisanship.
that and people that are working to get something done that don't have any outlet for for people hearing about them. I mean, one of the things that I have found in working with Engage and talking to people all over the country and women all over the country is that people don't understand what the fight is about. And I'm really interested in helping untangle that, if you will. Why is consensus? Why is bipartisanship so hard?
What are they actually fighting about? And not that all of us spend our time going to town hall meetings, but I would say I would suggest to anybody that if you're writing a congressman or congresswoman or you're doing anything to say, what are you doing in a bipartisan way? What's your favorite piece of bipartisan legislation that you're working on?
I mean, it would be shifting the incentive structure if reporters would simply ask when they're interviewing members of Congress, what is the favorite bipartisan piece of legislation that you're working on? And then they could say, oh, which Senator Gillibrand and Senator Lummis might say, oh, we have this bill on crypto or we have this bill on...
you know, new banking regulations? Or you could say to Senator Gillibrand and Senator Cassidy, what are you, you know, you say to Senator Cassidy, what's your favorite thing you're working on? And he might say, the work I'm doing to find sensible paid family leave policy with Senator Gillibrand. We see that, though, with like the immigration bill that was being worked on with Senator Cassidy and Lankford that fell apart.
after Donald Trump came out. There is no sort of imaginary 1-800-I'll-take-the-compromise line to dial. So when people light up their grassroots, they call and they say don't or yes, yes or no, yes or no. You know, imagine what would have happened when a certain group of Republicans were not happy with what Senator Murphy and Senator Lankford came up with, which I would argue they were doing exactly right.
What the Constitution wants them to do, what they did was quite extraordinary. They worked, they worked, they came up with something and nobody picked up the phone and said, I'll take the compromise.
And there was nobody to motivate people to do that. We're talking about the immigration bill that died. I mean, if I had if I if I could go back in that and I had 50 million dollars in my bank account rather than spending it on one candidate or another, I would ask all Americans. I try and get in all of their phones and on their social media. And I would say, please call your representative and say, I'll take the deal.
Because when people in good faith negotiate something out that is going to help make something better and they've done the work and they haven't walked away from the table, then A, we need to know that. But B, we have to encourage that and say, okay, I'll take the deal.
Because, you know, by virtue of human existence, we're used to compromising in our daily lives all the time. And so we have to rejigger, if you will, reconfigure the incentive and the rewards so that if you're deciding whether or not you're going to vote for somebody of either party, you say, what are they doing in a bipartisan fashion? Do they work with the other side of the aisle? Right.
Or do they just walk away from the table all the time? And we don't have language for that. There's not enough work being done, I think, to make it used against them in political ads. It is used against them. And a very, very scary point is, is that if you know, if you belong to the sanity caucus in Congress.
becoming too hard to stay in Congress. So the number of retirements, I mean, Tara, this is a whole other show for us another time if I haven't outworn my welcome. But the fact of the matter is the people that are retiring on both sides of the aisle is really problematic. And it's problematic because it means the forces of partisanship and the forces of
divisiveness have worn them down to the extent that they're like, I'm not, I just can't, I'm worn out. Now that's a real problem because then you, what you do is you hollow out the people who are willing to work for consensus. And then you're further left with these polar extremes. Yeah. And you're also losing people with institutional knowledge, seniority, and just people who know what they're doing. Rachel, this was amazing. We will do that show. I hope so.
I have a show in my mind. I have so many great examples of good things and people want to hear about them. Totally. Have fun now.
Fun next week, Milwaukee and then Chicago. I mean, Chicago could be historical. I know it's a wild, wild time we're living in right now. I thought the big story was going to be Wisconsin, but now I think it's Chicago. I was talking to my fellow reporters about this. Some of them worked at some news agencies that told them we're sending one person to Wisconsin and one person to Chicago and everybody else was fighting for Wisconsin to cover the Trump
story. But now it looks like it's the story in Chicago. So we shall see. Do your good investigative work and you'll tell us all what's happening in real time, as they say. Thank you for having me. Of course. Thank you. This was excellent, as always.
That was another episode of Somebody's Gotta Win. I'm your host, Tara Palmieri. I want to thank my producers, Christopher Sutton and Connor Nevins. If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends, rate it and subscribe. If you like my reporting, please go to puck.news slash Tara Palmieri and sign up for my newsletter, the best and the brightest. You can use the discount code Tara20 for 20% off.
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