Episode 536: The Murder of Gary Triano
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Hey, weirdo, i'm mila. And this is more than.

We were doing a little room silence before we started recording because that makes IT some Better or something, I don't know. Spaces and noise dynamic butter noise .

dynamic round by ash.

But a later was spaced out. So I mean, like you would just stare and at her, like her, you going to say.

where do or not? I was space. So because I don't know how to save documents on the computer and actually then send them to people. So IT gets IT gets little hairy on my end because I don't it's a little difficult.

difficult. Lemon.

difficult because a lot I don't have to fix IT.

But you know did you figure you out?

Not quite. But you know we'll get there.

I usually just .

copy and paste link. That's pretty smart. yeah. But you know some people didn't like that.

They don't like a link. I don't care. They like that. I give a ship with people like.

I know what I can send. I do my best. I do my best and I can do. That's all I can do, all you can do.

Oh, everybody.

it's been snowing today.

Everybody.

it's been snow when i'm about the I get in the way from this now .

I am jealous. I'd like, no, I like winter, but like this is being kind of puppy yeah.

but you're not that jealous because i'm going on a cruise. You like cruise. I'm not just so i'm about to utils that drink package.

I'm about to that hot mom about to utilize that free. I was going to say free wifi, but there isn't that free wifi. In fact, the wife is pretty darn expensive.

expensive wife but i'll .

be around if you need me.

So um hopefully we want to. Hopefully you can just have a nice relaxing vacation.

Yeah don't need. You will see.

Don't get this time. H I have mercy. I hope not. I think i'm in that like I I and that little unity period, hyper immunity, let's what they say, that's what I say.

Hey, hey, my my kids stop singing. It's a matter on the first floor. Oh yeah. update.

I know i'm updating you every single episode about my and what was your previous substance? My previous update was I like, I like maybe I don't know about IT. I'm gonna watch IT and it's part and IT is partially ash that has convinced .

me what you to know that for the people about one more time.

Ash definitely convinced me. So baby, but also tiktok and doctor, yeah.

there is that of IT all I think tiktok is actually helping me figure out how I feel about that. I think I decided that overall, it's a great movie. again. I would probably watch IT again. I think if I like, really was in the mood .

to get my shit raw. No subject here in the get your .

shit raft and I feel drew has decided he he was like out of all I like .

wasn't for him ah I am just like in tried now, like I think I am too intrigued to at this point like i've seen too much. I've heard too much. I've seen too many reactions.

I am vive hard with that song, who i've seen the end and where that song comes from. Some like, you know what, I want to have that energy in my life. Me.

maybe you like you can't deny .

that's a great energy. At the end, I mean, like for him, maybe not for everyone else. You need to lunch.

No, I know what happens. I know why he's doing that. Oh yeah.

you're just great. I've been spoiled. You're just cool nuts.

I guess .

you could argue that he had, yeah, yeah I mean, he's had a bus. He I think he's had a blast the whole way through. We don't know, i'm sure, is that we is that the thing at one point is I can't even I want poil anything? Yeah, I poil poil. But you like that song at the end I also love but and I I don't even know what the correct wording is, but I fuck so have you with that one, two, three, four? Yeah.

can I get down with that one? IT just makes .

me want to celebrate something but murder on the day before I can I can get down with that. Yeah, we sorted to the kids this morning and they were like, I know about this. Ah would like like the song is weird. We were like to know, I have a good day at school to school.

good day at school back.

Well, there's really no transition out of that. That's what we do. We talk about weird random shit such as siller burn and then Randy m songs that are having a resurgence.

And then we say there's really no transition for that. I mean, to tell you a sad, awful story. So what we do, so that's we're going to continue to do IT. Yes, and for for a while forever, that's a lot of .

commitment.

But no, today we're going to be talking about the murder of gary triano. This is a crazy case. I think this was actually like one of the first day line that I ever watched.

When I like really get into true crime, have a date line. Yeah, I think so. I didn't watch the I didn't watch IT again recently.

But like now I want to watch IT, but let's get into IT. Okay, let's get into IT. Well, gary triano, he was born in screen o california on november six hundred forty three and he grew up in arizona.

After graduating from high school in thousand nine hundred and sixty one, he enrolled at the university of arizona, and eventually he did graduate with his degree in accounting in one thousand nine hundred and sixty five. So college to graduate with, once he was down at school, he ended up marrying mary crame in the light sixties. And they welcomed their first baby in one thousand nine hundred and seventy.

They had a daughter that they named hither, and then either was followed the next year by a sun. Brian o. By one thousand nine hundred and seventy, gerry had found work as a car salesmen in two son.

And with the arrival arrival of their second child, he really wanted to take his professional life more seriously, kind of level up a little bit. So in one thousand nine hundred and seventy one, he got a real estate license and embarked on his first development project. This was going to be a ninety seven home development in the northeast part of two son, and the project did eventually go through.

But IT wasn't without protests from the public and a significant amount of zoning red tape lic. This wasn't just easy project. Yeah, that he started out with that was a little bit of a nightmare. Sounds like IT, but that was actually his early experiences with this development that prompted him to actually run for city council in the spring of one nine hundred and seventy three, he told reporters, zoning must must best utilize the available land for the benefit of the total community, not just for the next door neighbor or the real estate developer. So he was like getting into, he wanted to make you a Better experience for the community as a whole.

Do you know he's doing the dame thing? He is.

But unfortunately, he was eventually deemed uneconomical to run for the seat because he failed to meet the residency requirement for the ward. But that didn't matter because he remained committed to working to overall all the city's zoning laws and make them friendly or towards developers socket. In the years that followed, gary worked really hard to build a name for himself in the real estate and finance industries.

He invested in properties and developments around zona. And actually he even burnt out into other areas, including film. Oh, wow. yeah. He's doing at all. In one thousand nine hundred and seventy eight, he and married his wife, went to the can film festival, where a film that he actually executive produced called matho cage debug, and was followed by a big gold industry party.

wow. And this fancy IT is unfortunately though his.

while his business prosperity throughout the late seventies and into the early eighties, his relationship with mary was slowly crumbling. I'm i'm not sure like all the ins and out, but that does sound like he had a lot of projects going on. She's finding herself like a new mom and probably alone a lot that sounds, but I just wasn't working out. And by late one hundred and eighty five, he had actually started seeing another woman named Pamela. So not great.

That's never good. When I started by with no.

by the following year, he and mary decided to divorce. And in october of one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, gary and pam actually got married in Sandy ago, california. So they started seeing each other in one thousand nine hundred eighty five, late one thousand nine hundred eighty five.

And by october twenty six, they were married. I was like, yeah, thank you. Thank you. Those very good. I am going to marry you.

Po, now, unlike gery first wife mary, who was active in community groups and charitable organization, SHE was like, really into the community as a whole. Pm, uh, was the opposite. A lot of people saw her as the embodied man of self centered access characteristics of the finance industry in .

the late nineteen eighties. Wow, they okay.

Essentially they kind of felt he was a bit .

I was going to say that what that sounds like.

it's a nice way .

to say he .

was a bit very long winded way, according to two thousand weekly pm quote group in the two thousand country club privilege and had always enjoyed a high visibility life of luxury. SHE was also active in two on real estate development in republican politics, which was actually rare for women at the time. He was SHE worked a lot, and a reporter for the two son weekly wrote SHE used her beauty to pursue listings, deals and commissions and SHE was not above using cut through tactics to get what he wanted.

And at this very moment right now, he sounds like a like a boss bit.

That's actually exactly what I was just about to say in one omen.

In this one, I know nothing about this case. So yeah, I don't know who any of these people are understand in this one moment, and you could change.

You can't deny IT SHE just moves. Another friend, political insider, told a reporter in two thousand, one pen will rip your heart out for a commission. So all right, the nicest person.

Yeah I mean that that's pretty in them yeah.

Now, if there is life with mary, his previous wife had been named chill and relatively conservative. His life with pam was at the exact opposite, yet again. They look to social life very much in the public eye that included entertaining wealthy guests from real estate and finance industries, like some guy named Donald trump.

Yeah, I don't know him. And then why? Marla maples, not a, but yeah, they were friends of them. Crazy wild palm. Gary became regular fixtures at society, events in fundraisers, university of arizona, basketball games in the two thousand country club, almost always traveling in eries preferred mode of transportation, a rented stretch limo.

a rented stretch limo in my notes.

I rote subtle.

I say that is the most consecutive .

car IT is, but it's also just .

so eighties like that is a rented .

new love IT. So, well, nobody doubted that there was love between pain. Friends would later say that, quote, IT was also money that I M truly loves.

Money, money, money, money. Ah.

well, on brand.

did you do the in thousand .

nine hundred eighties, gary had plenty of money. He was at the peak of his career, and he was living a life that would later be described by the process. extravagant.

Why couldn't I just say that word? Extravagant, confident infant boy ant. He, in pm, owned a home on the grounds of the prestigious skyline country club.

They had a private chafer. They owe a private jet, and they always used IT for trips between arizona, california, nevada, new york. There is popping off him.

And actually SHE had made a considerable career for herself with assets totally nearly two million by her own account. Oh shit. But pain was happy to quit working after SHE and gary got married, embracing a new life where he provided her with everything that you needed. well.

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So i've been really focusing on bradlee roses cycling classes. I'm really getting into some yoga classes, and it's been awesome because this is little thing on each of the classes that you can tell how hard IT is. And we're always running on time on hello on because whether you need ten, twenty, forty five minutes of you time to sweat or just get grounded, pelletan provides flexibility with daily on demand and live classes that fit your schedule in your life. That has been immensely important to me. Find your push, find your power with pallet on at one palon dotcom.

What if death is only the beginning? In one thousand nine hundred and fifty england, a milkman's daughters lives are tragically cut short. When his wife later becomes pregnant, he makes a claim that is Frankly, ery.

He says that his newborn e twins are his dead daughters reincarnated. Andy says he has proof, a true story hosted by writer, director and amy nominated actor will sharp. This is extra sensory. In apple original podcast produced blueness house, apple TV plus subscribers get special early access to the entire season, follow and listen on apple podcasts.

Now, within a year of the wedding, pam gave birth to their first child, followed by another three years later. In the best years of their marriage, garrion, pam were pretty generous with their money. They would always bring friends along on their lab ish vacations to flashy destinations and they took care of those that they loved yeah and their friendships with the legs of that guy name trump and their regular trips to lost vegas in atlantis city. They were more than just casual associations because gambling actually played a big role in gries, not only personal but professional life.

Oh, okay, throughout the eighties he had built part of, excuse me, a big part of his business and his reputation on developing arizona's indigenous gambling industry in gaming industry yeah working with tribal commissions from multiple native american tribes to develop large casinos and resorts. And by the late eighties, his interests had expanded beyond the arizona borders to include developments and in gaming projects in the carribean, china and even middle east. So he's going, no, the real estate development business often pugree an close proxim ity to known members of organized crime families, including Joseph banana.

the banana bananas. And they just keep coming around.

I know I found myself in a zone, but in case you forgot for my last year is on a case where Joseph banana was A A little part of IT. He was the head of new york, new york banana crime family, and he retired to horizon and the one thousand nine seventies. And actually, I don't think guy said this last time, but he became active in arizona real estate when his life of crown.

right? I mean, yeah, what going to do? Yeah, I get to stand up job at some homes. Yeah you know.

can you going to imagine if he was .

a real you're having a showing was like a part of the .

banana grame family just like think he was like an agent, but he was just about just like .

you wanted buy this, you like, I do course yes, I do. I would love to like, you know what?

I'll playboy 然后 在那里 等。 IT was supposedly banana who actually helped finance scary worth business in the late seventies, leading some associated to link him to the mafia until and actually even after his death, which is highly refuted. Yeah, doctor Lawrence stein, tony o, though, told cbs news in twenty seventeen about gary, he's a very fun boy ant man and he's also very good looking, but he's rotten to the core. Oh, not a nice thing to say somebody calling you rotten to the core after your death like whole after you're like violent violent yeah or at any time .

it's just like dam that's that's a like entitled that's someone brought in .

to the core that's rough. The antonio claimed to have known gery since they were children and insisted he was a conman, a thief, and he would rob or steal from anybody, including his own family, his own wife.

Dam, even as a kid, he was a called man.

Let's just be clear that this is one person assessment. Now, whether an accurate was actually involved or associated with organized crime is somewhat unclear, but IT is refuted by anybody close to him. I knew him, but his work in real estate finance and development did eventually lead to serious personal and professional triple one way or the other.

By the end of the decade, a real estate bust and a global stock market crash had caused tremendous losses for investors and developers around the world. And for the first time in almost twenty years, gary found himself in very, very dire financial states. Ohh yeah.

The financial collapse had caused the real estate market specifically to stall. So gary was struggling to sell properties that he'd spent years investing in developing, so he was unable to sell these property. So he quickly found himself with really serious cash flow shortages prevented him from paying his creditors. So of course, lawsuits .

followed.

So he's just in a house. I was just unch just shut. The cruciate storm in the crash in the subsequent real estate bus cause significant losses for a lot of people around the world, but gri's business losses were also accompanied by his personal gambling deaths, which also had begun despite a lot of control.

Old boy, by one thousand nine hundred and ninety three, he was being sued by multiple organizations. In the next year, he actually said they had to filed for chapter eleven bankrupcy. He cited forty million dollars in deaths. S .

wo.

yeah. And that's a ninety three. I actually million dollars, yes, in three money. I didn't look up the conversion. But holy shit. Now the financial problems, of course, i'm sure anybody could assume LED to problems in ging an pampers relationship. And in the summer of one thousand nine hundred ninety three, they actually ended up separating with pm kicking gary out of their country club home. A messy divorce in a custody battle quickly followed with pain taking out three restraining orders against her soon to be x husband, among other things, he claimed gary, quote, carded a loaded gun around on the front seat of his car, mixed to booze when end, anti depression through things, tour her clothes and was harassing her at all hours of the day, man and documents filed with the during the divorce proceeding, he claimed my household to help us even been scared away, like, let's talk all people that yeah how the sake like I know there's a lot other of other things to impact there, but that's yes yeah. Now it's unclear whether there was any truth to these claims or if pam was simply trying to bolster her claim for full custody.

which that does happen if I hate when these kids involved .

so messy ah yeah but her behavior or during the divorce did little to endure her to the judge or to the court system. During a custody hearing in march of one thousand nine hundred ninety four, quote, pan became infuriated when he thought gerry was mocking her with laughter and retaliated in the hallway outside of the court, throwing a cup of water at gary, which the judge leader cited her for what what are you thinking that sounds like you're a fucking good doll. Yeah.

it's like you're write a custody hearing for your kids. Yeah, that's not going to look good. Yeah, that's the your temper and throwing something like that, you can do that. And like whether .

or not you are afraid of him, I don't think that showing the judge that you really are well.

that's the thing. And and it's just it's honestly just showing when you lose your temporary throws things right if everybody's human. But it's like that a place you don't want to do that exactly.

You got you got to keep IT contained in the court case. Now the case was settled a few months later in pain, was given full custody of the children. And at that point he actually left a arizona and relocated to a swan, colorado.

So SHE packed up the kids and left. Now, despite being nearly a thousand miles away now, the distance did little to quell the Victorio between garrion pam. Shortly after moving to aspen, pam tried to get yet another restraining order against scary claiming. And this was a quote a friend had told her that triano announced, if IT weren't for their kids should be dead.

Wow, which you like that .

a bit claim yeah had had been granted, which I don't believe that was the restraining order would almost certainly have affected what little access gary even had to his kids at this point or which already was causing a significant source of distress for gary because this was already a difficult point in his life, financially, yes, and personally, with all the gambling, death and everything. And now his kids are, like, completely ripped away from him, and they move this far away. But his friend john contest told a reporter in two thousand, one, he loved and missed his kids and added that gerry was never without a cell phone to ensure he .

never missed call from those kids. That makes me sad.

Yeah and no matter what happened between pain and gary, obviously you hope that there wasn't actual violence. Yeah, but that does sound like he was a really .

devoted father when you hope so. I mean, like people's people's relationship with their kids and with their spouse can be a totally different version of themselves, you know. I mean, not by no means is that okay to treat your spell selection IT? No, but that doesn't mean he was you know, that doesn't mean he was dad.

I mean, again, I don't know these people so maybe he was, but not like but that sounds like so I was going to say that sounds like from what people who knew him said and that's all we can go up like. So support is under, over, around, over on and that's all we can go off as I think about function. So as second I watched, that's all we can go out for most people who know him, we don't know him ah if somebody says, you know he was voted that that's all we can really go off of that's really said that is you .

know now after the divorce, gary moved into a home and stable canyon with his business partner Richard heggie, and started trying to rebuild his business, which this shows you how rough IT was for me, literally have to become a remate with this business party. With that sucks.

In the two months since he filed for bankrupcy, he had lost nearly twenty six million dollars and per his creditor repayment schedule, was only projected to make about two hundred and thirty thousand dollars annually for the following years. Wow, I say only like, obviously that's a lot of money, but I say only because of the debt that he was up against yeah. Now the significant drop in income also meant that he was struggling to pay child support each month, and he actually ended up often turning to his x wife, mary, for help and paying his depth.

Well, which fuck mary, queen mary, for the win. And yet again, I feel like like IT probably took a lot for him to turn to his wife and say, I can. I have money to help my for my kids. Like I feel like that also shows his devotion .

to is that he wasn't willing to just like let IT go. He wasn't gonna pay child support, but a lot of people don't pay out .

to work exactly now. I will also say, despite his financial difficulties, he still struggled to rein in his spending. He continued traveling first class. He continued gambling and spending thousands on business.

Entertaining man would not learned in our lesson.

not learned in our lesson. And I will say, obviously, I know gambling is an addiction. So yeah, it's tough. So it's like you can just shut IT off exactly now. In one thousand nine hundred and ninety four, his company, new frontier investments, started in association with plata mortgage and financial services.

A two on finance company IT was at platinum that gary met thirty one year old Robin gardener, and despite a twenty year age difference, the two began a very intense and passionate relationship. wow. A few months later, Robin was pregnant. And in one thousand nine hundred and ninety five, SHE gave birth to their child.

SHE hoped that the baby would be enough reason for gary to marry her, but after two failed marriages and, you know, not really being in a position to have a huge wedding, he insisted that he was not interested in marriage. Okay, which I can see why he didn't want to. yeah.

I can see why that would be a huge blowter after delivering a trial. Was one hundred percent like that suck? yeah. According to a reporter for two weekly, his refusal to marry Robin quote touched off a series of storms and exchanges of accusations of abuse and violence. So, no, just a mess. The verbal arguments often escalated into physical art altercations, including one incident in which gerry actually called nine one one on Robin after SHE threw a way at him in their garden.

My god, everybody needs to come the fuck down. Why is everybody so aggressively violent with each .

other super aggressive down? While his romantic life seemed destined for failure at this point, by the fall of one hundred and ninety six, gerry's professional life was finally starting to pick up some steam. He was still struggling to keep up with his creditors and for the bankrupt.

A payment repayment schedules used me, but he had recently started working on a few new business projects, including a casino in china, which would be the first about kind. With the bulk of his financial romantic troubles behind him, gerry started off to remember one thousand nine ninety six with a renewed sense of optimism. He was really looking forward to just starting fresh and also celebrating his fifty third birthday with friends and family.

He's like, you know, been a shit for few years.

Move on. Like going to shit ten years yeah this point, let's let's go let's go into the mid fifty years, you know. Now on the afternoon of november first one hundred ninety six, he played a round of golf with his friends at lap oma country club, while unbeknown to him, friends and family gathered at his house for a surprise birthday party.

The golf game wrapped up at about five thirty that night, and gary made his way out to the parking lot where he parked to the borrowed lincoln town car that he had been driving after exchanging some pleasant trees with. And within acquaintance in the lot, he got into the driver seat of the car and noticed that a blue canvas bag was sitting on the passenger seat. And he kind of looked at IT because he hadn't, he hadn't put that there, and IT wasn't there when he parked to the car out of her.

Just a few hours earlier, he reached over to inspect the bag. And as soon as he touched IT, the bag exploded and golfing the car in flames and shadow the glass of all the nearby cars and the country clubs. Windows shit was a massive explosion. The canvas bag actually contained a large pipe bomb, which, and this is very bleak and very gruesome, IT killed gary, instantly blowing open his skull, quote splinting IT, apart by an ancient a half on the right part of his forehead for a length of more than four inches, leaving a bridge of bone.

Oh my god.

The autopsy report indicated that, among other things, 说 from the bomb had pierce his brain， the explosion had burned off his hair and ruptured both of his eyeballs.

All we shit.

During a search of the scene, his left hand was discovered among debris from the blast nearly two hundred yards away from the car. Oh.

mig, so he didn't even know that what happened. He was killed, his intently, instantly.

H, that's awful. According to his gold mova watch, which stopped at the time of the explosion, he died at five thirty eight pm.

Now he was on his way to a surprise birthday party first love.

His friends and family are at his house waiting for him. H, 哎呀。 The news of geri's death reached friends and family a few hours later, many of whom, like I just said, just arrived at his surprise birthday party when pam got the news.

He later told cbs news, I was absolutely historical. And i'm thinking, oh my god, what am I going to do? I immediately thought, who is that? He had been paid before the bombing.

Gary was was totally in fear, going around with the gun. He had life threats. I had life threats.

The children had life threats. We're talking about the mexican mafia people. You don't. Css, hm.

so she's offering up. I was just going to say what .

the excuses here.

what a response and it's also.

I love that he has to insert herself and feel like I had life think she's like, by the way, me too. It's like one thing to bring up your children, of course yeah like and I did.

It's also just like, wouldn't your first thought just be like I don't even know how to comprehend this like not let me give you forty different ways that this could have happened.

Like, exactly no, exactly. Just like saying your hypothetical is interesting. Like obviously, no matter what, you did love this person at some point, but you are just involved in the most bitter divorce yeah custody battle ever.

You moved super far away from him after filing multiple ways in order in your historical and you don't know what you're going to without him. That's the thing. You don't know what you're going to do without him. I know about that. Yeah intense will say, yeah.

While a few of him's friends believed her stories about a gery involvement with the organized crime, most thought that her comments at the time we're strange and very unbelievable, a family friend, Lauren chapman, told cbs when he was asked about pam's claims that the family had been threatened and felt unsafe. SHE said that that's absurd. I don't believe that ever happened. I think that's actually just completely made up.

Wow, so that's interesting. yeah.

Despite what most of his friends and family said, the gambling is supposed organized ed crime. Link did prove too tempting for investors.

Or what you have to look into IT exact. When somebody says something like that.

you can not, right? Unfortunately, I think they spent too much time on. At that way, I will say they immediately started pursuing geryon death as a mob hood.

But that's the thing you can't pursue IT in one exclusively one focus.

You you can go down that, but also expLoring others.

Several avenues give them all the same attention. And the answer .

roka exactly. People counting. Sherif karn stepniak told reporters he had huge gambling debts. He made deals between people who financed in built casinos, and some of those projects were unsuccessful.

He was basically indicating that the hit could have been the result of an unpaid mob death. Okay, now, to those who knew him, the notion that gri's death was the result of shady or illegal activities was not only impossible, but also extremely offensive. I bet IT was like friends and family hearing that their loved one is some guy tied up an organized crime, and that's why he died.

If that's not the case, I can understand why that's really offensive. Yes, people being like, yap.

this is that like, I can't imagine if people like, like if that happened to my dad and like my loved one and people are going around saying that yeah, because you like, no, this is a tragedy yeah let's figure what happen and let's focus on the trade at all. Now to gri's friend in business partner, Frank b. Scheme or be, excuse me, the suggestion of maffia involvement seemed politically motivated.

He told reporters. There was no organized crime aspect in any arizona caso or any casino we've been involved with. But still, according to him, opponents of an expanded gaming use the death as evidence to support their claims that gaming results in a rise of crime or other unsavory activities. That's interesting, which so gross and opportunistic to use so not cool.

You can see where he's coming for you like.

oh okay yeah I mean gross and opportunistic and people .

that would use exactly yeah but and you can see .

why he's thinking that exactly but if not, the mob who would want gary triano dead and why there were, of course, scaries. There was, of course, there is considerable unpaid debt, but those were all with legitimate businesses and organizations who actually stood to lose even more if gary was to die before paying what you that's .

kind of what I was thinking to was if these are legitimate businesses, it's like it's worse if he's not around to pay the debt, right? You are just eat taking money from him, right? You know like you would get .

that debt exactly. But despite that, the chemical I share of continued to pursue geri's finances as their primary theory for the murder. The serif said there were a number of people who would have reason to be angry with him. Some of his personal relationships and other problems could have cropped up from his financial relationships.

Yet throughout the early weeks of the investigation, the share of continued to promote the suspected connection to organized crime as the motive, he told reporters, a week after get his murder in the past, the mop has used this message. Not only is that a powerful, violent way to kill, but IT sends a message perhaps to others. It's speculation, but it's disconcerting speculation.

I mean, I could agree with that at the end IT is.

But let me just tell you, they are on the wrong track here.

Oh, boy, yeah.

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While investigators dug through geri's personal life for leads, technicians of the bureau alcohol, tobacco and firearms eighty f for short, began analyzing the wreckage for clues that could point them in the direction of the motive or the killer in a rush to provide some information to the press, a spokesperson told them IT was a quote, pipe bomb filled with black gun powder that killed gary tonto. A, T, F. Agent sig sala said, we know exactly what most of the bomb pieces are in what portion of the device they belong to. At this point, it's just a matter of putting IT all together. Now while agents may have appeared confident when I came to the information that was being passed on to the reporters, this would prove to be one of a few inaccuracies that were conveyed to the press because .

they were rushing right about rushing to get information out and get the good information out. Yeah.

there are some people talking to the press that are not as close to the case as they seem to be awesome. Because, in fact, when technicians had finally finished processing the vehicle a few weeks later, they discovered several pieces of electronic scrap that would eventually confirm the bomb used in gary's murder was remotely defined. Oh, shit.

Isn't that wild? yeah. So after weeks of investigation, pem accounting investigators were no closer to discovering who killed gary triano than they were on day one, sergeant Michael o.

Conner told reporters. It's like a game of clue. This is a classic. We don't have shortage of potential suspects. Like.

how classic is this? Yeah, I love that is like, this is a classic. I'm sorry. what? And he ended a golf game. God was can got blown up by pipe bomb, his car that was really detonated on his way to a fucked and surprise birthday party. Yeah, point me in the direction of where that's a classic like, damn.

what has your career? But yes, serious. So can you imagine of a detective sitting there, a police officer saying, like, it's like a game of clue and think it's about your love murder? I hope you're not looking at IT like a game.

Oh my god. I would be like, great way to describe that kind of groves. But the problem was, the more time that passed, actually, the shorter the list of suspects became, and fewer and fewer leads are turning. After a few months of digging through geary's personal life and finances, investigators came to the conclusion that his friends and family had actually expressed immediately following his death. There was no obvious connection to the mob .

talking that his friends and family knew him Better.

Imagine that. And while he may have owed many people money, like we were saying earlier, not a single one of those people or companies would have benefit from his dog. Fact would be worse. So although none of gri's creditors, like we just said, would have benefit from his death, there was one person who did stand to gain financially from this murder. A few months after geri's death, his x wife, pam phillips, filed a claim on the two million dollar life insurance policy that he had taken out in geri's name during their marriage, with the beneficiaries being listed as the couples two minor children, meaning, who's that money, anna.

go to? Oh, boy.

Given the considerable payout on the policy and the lack of leads or other new evidence, investigators did finally turn their attention to pam phillips, who proved to be less than CoOperate. You don't say, unlike nearly everybody else in reviews during the investigation, pam actually refused to submit to a polygraph examination, claiming that her lawyer had advised against IT, which I can see that yeah which you know maybe fair enough, but given the other details being on co Operative and other revenues, yeah.

that doesn't look good. It's going to add onto a little spice on to by the spring.

new leads and evidence have slowed to a trickle at that point. And the investigation team who actually had originally been meeting daily, they started scaling back their efforts until the team was fully suspended in August. When the case i've gone completely called, pam told reporters, i'm sad that they were unable to find whoever did this IT just doesn't feel like it's over for me and my children in .

the whole family .

in the old family mean my children and you know gery entire other family yeah who knew multiple other children for sure um officially, the case would remain open and investigators from multiple agencies would continue work together to find garies killer. But even the share of department really held out little hope of solving this case, a share of department spokesperson told the areas on a republic just after the team was disbanded.

It's looking slimmer every day. We don't have anything fresh coming in. And although this was technically true and there were no official suspects, many within the sharp's office did continue, continue to consider P M, A, lucent in the investigation. They couldn't find any evidence to really tie her to the murder, but at the same time, they also couldn't shake the feeling that he was somehow involved.

The interest guts were talking to them yeah, the fact that even the investigators guts were like sometimes off here, yeah, they should always trust .

there got the investigators. Yeah, that's the thing. But not long after moving to, we know that pam phillips pretended her neighbor, Ronald Young, and SHE hired him as a consulting to build a website for her company that he was intending to start. Their relationship soon turned romantic, and they had of kind of honour ough again relationship until one thousand nine ninety six, when running Young abruptly left the state.

Okay.

in one thousand nine ninety six.

same year, that a very interesting at the gary died.

he said in departure, without delivering on the service that he'd been paid for by pampa complete prompted her attorney to file a police report cleaning that ronnel Young had defrauded pam phillips. And initially pam seemed interested in CoOperating with the police about this case, but a few weeks later, he refused to help in their investigation at all.

I was literally just gna ask you was like, you know, it's weird that you would involve herself in that if something is a miss but the fact that he pulled back, I was like, actually, no, I don't want to talk to before anything. I don't want to get anybody and travel and care about anything. I'm just going to where yeah exactly interesting.

That sounds like he had mentioned IT her, her attorney, and they thought, maybe we can get this back. And obviously, heritor ney, really, he had no idea about anything else. He was like, like to pursue this.

And he was like, yeah, let's get my money back and I was like, you know what? I second that I don't need that money. She's a great way to second.

No way that takes these back. I don't want IT. But despite your change of heart when I came depressing charges. Pen phillips actually was not the only one who made a claim of fraud against mister runne Young in April one thousand nine hundred and ninety six, just a few weeks after pm had filed her report against him, two assen and business men made similar clam.

So a search warrant was issued for Young home, where investigators found evidence related to the fraud case and and arrest for, and ended up being issued in August. Now weeks passed with no sign of ronal Young until last man, detective James crawly, got a call from police in your binda, california regarding the discovery of an abandoned rental car that had been taken out in Young's name. And IT was found at the airport near his parents house because the vehicle had been reported stolen by the rental car company.

The police were able to impound the vehicle. And that you had a toe to the impound lot where I had just been sitting since discovery. So detective crowd actually travel to california in october to search the contents that had been found in the vehicle, which included a sad off shotgun of a laptop computer belonging toronto Young, a credit report and pam phillips's name, a map of two sons and a large number of documents from geran pam's divorce.

What the fuck?

yeah. The evidence collected from the rental vehicle was, for sure, a unfun king usual, but still unable to find Young that the detective returned to assis in in continued working on more pressing cases. IT was a few months later when he heard about the bombing in a arizona that James crawly thought about ronal Young again. He remembered gary toronto's name from the documents that have been found in the abandoned rental. And along with the map of two sons, he was like that kind very so he reported the information to the pem accounting sharif department, but when they were also unable to locate Young, they pursued other suspects.

What the bug and .

we're just letting him go here.

Like you like you're like O I can't find. So I guess where in the world you know what he didn't do IT because we can't find him and it's like, what's no you need to go look.

nearly a decade past, nearly a mother fucking decade past, until two thousand five one round old Young case appeared .

on america's most wanted. 嘿。

john walsh for fraud d charges during which I was also noted that he was a suspect in the trional murder case. The episode air in november of two thousand and five and within a day producer producer produce.

I have received several .

calls from residents and pano beach, I think if I I think is pop o beach, florida saying that a man matching Young's description was living in the area and going by the name Kelly Young, oh, am I even change your last name? no. And I actually am pretty sure about Kelly is his middle name.

So start by middle. Yes, kind of dumb. I'll november twenty first, broward kony share of officers trailed Young to a carracci appointment where he was arrested for fraud.

D charge is got to get that spine right. They were like, they were like, you can't. You're going to be uncomfortable. They in your alignment or spd's now when they searched his car in the parking lot that day, officers discovered a loaded gun and credit cards on the name Kelly Young. When detectives were able to search his home in his computers, they discovered that he had been receiving regular payments from this lady named on panel a phillips since ninety ninety seven. Show the fuck up, totalling approximately four hundred thousand dollars.

Shut the fuck she'd been paying in this entire time .

since ninety seven. IT is now two thousand.

was the decade of yeah.

yeah. Holy shit.

yeah. According to a forensic .

account who examined the evidence, the payments were consistent with the scheduled payouts that pain phillips had received from gary triandos life insurance policy, and IT appeared to the account that, quote, the two had attempted to conceal .

the transactions.

Wow.

this could not be more obvious.

No, I truly couldn't. In addition to the fraud charges against him now in colleran, o. Young was charged with being a fuge ative imposition of a firearm, served ten months in a florida jail and upon his released in two thousand and six, was extradited back to colorado on the warm warrant for the fraud charges dam. So based on the evidence collected from his home and laptop computer, the evidence collected from the abandoned rental vehicle in ninety ninety six investigators on the trional case had a strong reason to believe that Young had been paid by pml a. Phillip's to murder .

gary trial yeah, I would say that that's a pretty decent conclusion to come to.

One might think so while Young SAT and florida jail on the firearms charged before he ended up being extradited, detectives in a arizona continued coming through evidence collected from his home and they discovered that he, quote, had recorded hours of telephone conversation with phillips in which they exhaustively discussed the payment shut up according to court documents. Throughout these conversations, Young and Philip referred to their financial dealings explicitly and implicitly as an illegal arrangement.

I, how what? I, the fact he recorded these, he recorded all of them.

And in most of these conversations, pam express concerns that they might get caught. wow. Among the more incriminating was one where Young reminded pm that he, quote, helped her with something that was beyond what anyone else in the world would probably do. And SHE was living off .

the benefits. Oh my god, that's boom.

In another call where they started arguing how much money he believed he was old, he explicated said, if they were caught, pam would, quote, be in a women's prison for murder.

Alright, I think we could get that out. We can clam that book shut, that cases close.

right friends. So the recorded calls obviously were sufficient enough evidence to get a warrant. And in september of two thousand and six, two son cold case detectives searched pants aspin home, seizing a large amount of evidence they believed proved that he had conspired with Ronald Young to kill her x husband gary triano in one thousand nine ninety six.

So now we're talking in ten years later, hoi should. Although they had long considered pam a suspect in gary's murder, investigators now felt confident that after ten years of inactivity, they had found the people responsible for guys death. During a press conference after the search of pants home, A, T, F, special agent Thomas mann told reporters.

It's fair to say that both individuals are so. Yes, absolutely. It's more than fair. yeah. The allegations, the snow White of fair, of the fairness of the ball, the allegations were immediately, of course, refuted by pam's attorney, dug Clark, who told reporters that his client had nothing to do with gerry's death.

Sir, okay, sir, he explained, quote, there are at least five different, very dangerous people, any of whom could have done IT. They all had the means, the mode of and the opportunity to do IT. Gary had a shady past and many enemies.

I love that. They just keep going back to that. They like, I know that the evidence points directly at pam and she's essentially admitted on a phone call, but there are so many other people who could have done and it's like there's a whole bunch people in the world yeah that are capable of killing anybody. But we have evidence that as a treated.

we have evident that he has the means more opportunity. And also, are we not going to consider her a fucking enemy of gary trial, that all these restraining .

order and everything, like obviously they did not have a good relationship like let's to be real.

Let's consider her an enemy for sure her an enemy of her is even.

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But investigators had long ago ruled out any of gaby's business associate and creditors later. Now, yeah, so no matter how hard pants lawyer tried, the content of the phone calls were simply too suspicious.

Yeah, you can get past that. Like, good try. Good try, throw out at the world and see if IT sticks. But they didn't exactly.

So I took a while. But in october of two thousand and eight, warns were issued for the rest of pen phillips and ronal Young, charging both with first degree murder and conspiracy to commit first degree murder. Young was arrested in california in extradited back to arizona, but pam phillips was nowhere to be found.

Where the fuck did you go? So much fucking .

time is passing as well, given her a fucking and ticket. Despite having been monitored by colorado investigators.

investigators that what was the first produced .

cce in investigate .

investigators.

despite having been monitored by the investigators, pm fled the U. S. For london in september .

of two thousand eight.

Just left the fucking wall. SHE was being monitor like a fuck. Her lawyer claim, ed, that SHE quote had gone to live near her daughter in switzerland. But I wonder why?

Also good for your daughter going to switch wind. I don't a get here.

A little more than a year would pass before pam was finally arrested in viana, austria a in december of two thousand nine, and eventually extradited back to the U. S. wow. Ron old Young went on trial in pem account in late february two thousand ten, now where pem account district attorney Williams mccollum n.

Market that he had engaged in a romantic relationship with pen Philips in nineteen ninety six and he was ultimately convinced to kill gary triano in exchange for four hundred thousand dollars, which was paid out from geri's life insurance policy. Wow, he's just like, here he is. He's like, boom.

And as evidence of conspiracy, Michelle mn provided receipt showing that the payments had actually began several months before the murder even occurred well, which layed the ground for the conspiracy charge. The ongoing payments and hours of recording phone, recording phone calls, they argued, were also evidence of his guilt. Now arguing on Young behalf, defense attorney water pulse er claims that the district tourney was only guessing about what had happened.

And that's a quote. He said the phone calls were really too vae to prove anything. Oh yeah, he said, in truth, the Young had learned the details of gary death from pam.

And desperate for money, he used that information to explore her for years, which I would like to sit here and tell you is also a crime. The eyes you're not making your client look at is like, it's no big deal. He just tried to extort just oration.

That's all he's like. We can talk about that later. They have a name for that if they have a name for IT is truly knock to, he said. If the jury wants to hypothesize, they could just as easily hypotheses that sometime around november first one thousand nine hundred ninety six, phillips told her for a lover SHE had arranged for tonos death and he decided to black mill her well and as evidence of this, he pointed to the recordings in which Young does make fake threats of phillips going to jail for what he did, but never implicates himself in the crime, probably because he knows he's the fucking person .

recording me yeah of course that's have you ever watched any crime series? ever? You're not gonna talk about themselves, right? They going to try to get you to say .

about them exactly. yeah. But the defense attorney, during his closing arguments continued, if they think the blackmAiling scheme in the murder scheme are equally plausible, they have to a quite Young. They don't. In his closing arguments, district to ney William of column refuted the defense argument, reminding the jury that, quote, the black millin ario doesn't make sense since Philips began paying Young five months before this letting .

yeah so there's that you want to explain .

that yeah and he also went on to point to the large amount of evidence collected in ronal Young's home that tied him to the murder, saying he had a quote, never seen a case in which so much evidence was created by the defendant. He said, everything you've seen or heard, weeks of two people who are so cold, so greedy, nothing else matters. dam.

The jury deliberated for twelve hours across, two days in. On April first, they returned their verdict, finding Ronald Young guilty, a first degree murder and conspiracy to commit first degree murder on may third, two thousand ten, P. M. County superior court judge Christopher Browning did sentence Young to life in prison without the possibility of parole, saying, he quote, could not comprehend how somebody could plot and Carry out the murder of a virtual stranger for money and in such a fucking horrific way.

way.

And clearly he was nearby and had pressed the button.

he saying, a stocking triano. Oh, g and so to be able to watch somebody walk.

So cha, now, if ronal Young's trial was relatively simple and straightforward, pml phillips case was, again, I say, the exact opposite boy. After being arrested in viana in december two thousand and nine, IT took eight more months before pen was back in the U. S.

in. In july two thousand and ten, he was finally arrange on charges of first gree murder and conspiracy to commit first gen murder while SHE was awaiting trial. Although her defense team requested that doctors perform a mental health evaluation claiming that SHE was incomplete to stand trial, according to these attorneys, her attorneys payment had been experiencing extreme paranoia since two thousand three. I fucking wonder why yeah and quote, SHE has felt as though she's being chin listen to and believes that he has had tracking devices placed in her neck wow.

In march of .

two thousand and eleven, doctor brad Johnson testified at a pretrial hearing telling the district tony he had examined pema phillips and in his opinion, SHE was malingering or faking symptoms of mental in this, according to him, he was, quote, very dramatic, inconsistent, vague and focused when SHE described her symptoms. And people with actual mental illnesses usually .

are not yeah where they go.

Based on his opinion, the judge refused to allow any additional mental health examinations, but in september of two thousand eleven, pem county judge Richard fields reversed his early ruling prohibiting additional mental health exams. And in december of that year, pam was as examined a second time by a new mental health practitioner who determined he was indeed incompetent to stand trial, but could be restored to competency. Okay, like why how though, can tell a but finally, in october of two thousand and twelve, pam was determined competitor to stand trial, but IT would be another sixteen months before they would finally go to trial.

I hate how long these .

things do I go, and especially .

for the family, get through with gery .

family having to wait this long for justice anyways. And then IT just gets .

and red and that is exactly what you said, like having over a decade happened before you even got to this point and then .

this all get judged back up again, which you're happy, i'm sure. Yeah to a degree you is up exact exactly. But like I said, Pamela finally did go on trial for the murder of gary triano. And this was an mid february of twenty fourteen where pem mechanic prosecutors told the jury that he had confided with ronal Young to kill her husband and the motive was simply agreement, prosecute.

Cold in is so gross, it's so growth of prosecutor in a cold Green said in her opening statements moments prior to that bombing, the only person who stood to get any benefit from gary trianon o's death was pema fi yeah. The prosecution argued that pam had grown a custom to this lab bish lifestyle that he had when he was married to triano and although he no longer wanted to be married to him, SHE wasn't ready to give up that lifestyle. In support of their case, they offered the same evidence that had been used to convict runners Young. The recordings and documents they believed showed that he was in active participant in the murder in defensive, his client paul extern flatly rejected the argument and instead suggested that although he had no love for her x husband, pam was in fact to the victim. According depends defense, who were clearly taking a page from Ronald Young's defense extreme claimed that Ronald had learned the details of gary ous death for years and IT use that information to extort pam.

So wow, we're really going for the they're .

saying the same thing, okay? He claimed clue what he had on pain was the fact that he had a reputation and aspin to protect. IT was a small town. SHE was a real estate agent.

SHE needed her reputation, they argued, pens lawyers that if word got out about her being a suspect in geri's death, IT could have ruined her professional career and and considerable damage to her reputation. And Young was using that to his advantage. As far as who did commit the murder, extreme claimed gary had been killed by neonics in arizona, millionaire to whom .

gary old money. And .

that I .

that I didn't. Yes.

the law confuses me because some yeah, I think I say this at least once. Every other case, some things that are here say you're like what now and then other things that don't get labeled as feels now. On April third, two thousand and fourteen, the jury retired for deliberations in nearly a week later, took them a little longer than the previous story, but they returned their verdict, finding pam guilty.

Oh, okay, I was like.

please don't I know it's trying to theory flow. They would ve found her guilty of first degree murder and conspiracy to commit first degree murder. And on may twenty second, nearly four years after her arrest and eighteen years since caries murder, the judge, Richard field, sentenced panel of Philips to life in prison without the possibility for parole can.

When the verdict was read in the courtroom, SHE turned to the gallery and shouted, i'm innocent. I'm innocent. This is a nightmare.

I don't know, man, guy. I don't understand those phone calls. If you are innocent, I don't either.

And I don't understand the payments. I don't understand any of no. And again, the motive, you were the only one who stood to gain from that.

Everyone else only lost. Yeah, pam phillips appealed the verdict to the ariston to me arizona court of appeals in two thousand and eighteen, claiming, among other things, that SHE had been improperly denied contact with her attorney, denied her right to a properly presented defense and denied her right to due process, all of which were incorrect. The ezza a court of appeals, disagreed with all these claims and upheld the verdict SHE currently serving her sentence at the ezza, a department of corrections in pario, arizona. And that is that in .

such a sad case, IT is and and I was looking up um like just trying to see you know like if if the kids I know the adults now like how they ended up, they seem like they are from what i've read IT says that they remember their dad is like a larger than life personality who adored his children, was generous with his time and money. Um the one of them I don't want to say their name just in case I don't want to yeah no me you know um but they remember red like he would literally like play jokes on people in restaurants where he would send the bill, his bill yeah to someone else and then watch their reaction but then paid their bill and his bill like just like as a practical joke that's a thing.

Everything I read about him just sounded like one he was a devoted father and to a .

pretty nice guy well, in the even Robin gardener justified and said that he was an active participant in their daughter's life. And SHE was sure he would have been just as attentive to her if he had been given the chance to grow up with her. See, cause I think he was only like seven month old old.

He was just like right before he was killed. But yeah, I think they were like, this is this is I can older uh, article about IT. But I think they were like having trouble like with the money that was supposed be awarded to them that was super to get money.

And IT wasn't a come because it's from penel. Yes, of course I IT is like, it's from what you can see. Everybody who I mean, I trust his kids to tell me if he was. I got dad, that's actually. And on that one.

so had two older kids because remember, he had two kids from his first marriage, so they knew him for a long, long time. exactly. know. So that seems like, yeah and Robin to say that like when they did have some difficulties in their relationship.

we had to say like he was very attentive and very a part of our daughters life, our daughters life. And I know if he was around and was given the chance, he would be as attentive to hear he is with his older .

and all his friends said, like no matter what kind of stress he was in, he always had a cell phone to call these kids, yeah, a torn apart that they were though, like pam and his children, he took them so far away yeah, I do think that justice was served here. But unfortunately, I was so late that was such delayed justice. And IT doesn't do anything .

for those kids that doesn't bring him back. So it's like.

what a sad said story. Seriously, truly. But with that, we hope you keep listening and we hope .

you keep .

IT where we're not rare that you extort anybody for money and not that you don't dior a Normal with your life, you do any .

of so that by.

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