#435 – Andrew Huberman: Focus, Controversy, Politics, and Relationships
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The following is a conversation with Andrew huberman, his fifth time in the podcast. He is the host of the huberman lab podcast and is an amazing scientist, teacher, human being and someone i'm grateful to be able to call a close friend. Also, he's a book coming out next year that you should preorder now called protocols, an Operating menu of the human body.

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I enjoy their stuff, may be able, able to this absolute is brought to buy asleep, and it's part for ultra. First of all, pod four is an improvement over the pod three, which was already awesome. Two acts, the cooling power.

I always love that when stuff is just improving, when smart phones are improving, other lamps are improving, like jumped to close, three, five, just create and GPT five may be coming out soon. She's great. It's great to see improvement. But also there's the ultra, which is an extra layer that adds the base that goes between the matters and the bed frame. And the base can control the physical position of the actual mattress.

So basically, you can not sleep in your bed, and you can also reading your bed, which is, I think that I think a lot of people like doing, I have trouble reading too much of my bed because fallest the Better, just too nice. Anyway, got asleep. A counsel's lacks and use code legs to get three hundred fifty books off the part for ultra.

This episode de is also about to buy element. I drink that, uh, Andrew, I consume a lot of during the episode. I drink a lot of element or not almost on every single part is up.

So that's just what I drink. I put a woman in the water I take. I've one next to meet now apart RAID zero bottle with twenty eight flow answers for little.

Put water. Put one packet of them in their usually watermelon salt mikes. IT a lot, put the fridge and but thirty years later, there's cold, refreshing deliciousness.

But yeah, in the texas heat, what i'm doing, the long runs or heart training sessions, like I just did turn rounds in the day in a grappling, you know, drinks I don't like to drink during training, so afterwards you're just your bodies completely dehydrated such amazing feeling to the planet ship with all the election you need so especially when is cold and delicious I love IT get a simple back for free with any purchase. Tried to drink element to dog come slash legs. This episode is also brought you by A G one and all in one daily drink to support Better health and peak performance.

It's kind of hilarious how when Andrea hang out, how the supplementation in the diet and just our way of being that point, there's a lot of a you want consumed, there's a lot of element consumed and there is a lot of a ground b for stake consumed on regular basis. Women planning to run together more, but we haven't quite done that is most in my thoughts because running has just been such a solo thing for me. I really don't remember last time I ever run with anybody.

I get so much into my head that I just feel like i'm even more introverted than I usually am, like I lose myself inside my mind. It's become such a meditated process that to do running with another person IT just feels a little but weird. I feel like I wouldn't be able to have contribute to the conversation if this the conversation and also like pacing wise, there is a certain pace where conversation still possible, but it's a little uncomfortable.

So and I can't really think at that pace that well and talk, I already struck talking. I know what to figure that out, but he is such great person to work out with, a great person to talk to, that will have to figure that out. Anyway, A G one is always part of the picture.

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Anyway, you can sign up for a one other promote trial period to shop fight that compassion x, that's all lower case, got a sharp fied dog consort ash looks to take your business to the next level today. This episode is also about you by next week and all in one cloud business management system, IT is the machine inside the machine, where the company is the matter machine and society is the media machine. This is the collection of groups and companies, is also a collection of nations in a constant state of energy.

Y against each other, with no centralized control. The centralize control comes the government that does the regulation on the, on the machine of capitalism. But within capitalism there is a certain degree of freedom that allows you to a build epic shit to build epic stuff.

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Because in order to a generate speech, if you take an idea this in your head, if you compressed that idea into, uh, something that can be represented, incomprehensible sequence words, and you have to speak IT, then the full context of everything has been spoken previously and everything has been going on around. And then there's another human being in other side that hears IT, but they have to hear IT correctly, you know, if is noisy, whatever. Or maybe their whole mine is focusing some aspect of the scene that the prevents them from being to.

Really, here was being said, but once they do Better than interpret, IT and decode, decompress the thing that was represented in language into an idea, and the visualization integrated, loaded in to the brain, and I make sense that idea, again, in the full context of everything, has happened before. And that way back and fourth, humans talk and make sense of the world together and make sense of their own mind together. It's just cool.

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You think there's ever gonna a day when you walk away from podcasting?

definitely. I mean, I came up within and then on the prophet of escape ard culture. And for the record, I was not a great escape border.

I was have to say that as skateboarders are relentless, if you call something you didn't do or whatever, I mean, I could do a few things that I loved to the community. And I still have a lot of friends in that community chim feebly at the lox. He can look up.

He's kind of the man behind the whole scene and know tony hat anyway, guys, I got to see them come up and get big and stay big. In many case to start huge companies like danny and colony case are dc. Some people have a long life in something, something done.

But one thing I have observed and learned a lot from in sky porting at the level of a observing the cape borders, and then the ones that started companies. And then what I also observed in science, and still observed, is you do IT for a while. You do at the highest possible level for you.

And then at some point you pik IT and you start supporting the Young talent coming in. In fact, the greatest scientists, people like Richard, axel, Katherine, do lock. There are many other labs in our science called die.

They're not just known for doing great science there, known for mentoring some of the best scientists that then going to start their own labs. And I think in podcasting, i'm very fortunate I got in in a fairly early wave, not the earliest wave. But thanks to your suggestion of doing podcast, fairly early wave and i'll continue to go as long as IT feels right.

And I feel like i'm doing good in the world and providing good, but i'm already started to scout talent, my company that I started with, rob Moore, psycho media, couple of other guys in their two might play back or photographer, ian maki, Chris ray, Martin fobes. We are a company that produced podcast right now. It's even lab podcast, but we're were launching a new podcast perform with doctor anyone.

And we wanted do more of that kind of thing, finding a really great talent, highly qualified people, credential people. And i've got a new kind of obsession, was covering the internet, looking for the Young talent in science, in health and related fields. And so will there be a final episode of the hp, yeah, I mean, bullet bus or cancer aside, you know, someday old, they'll be the very last. And thank you for your interest in science, and i'll clip out.

Yeah, I love the idea of walking, wait and not be dramatic about IT right? When IT feels right, you can leave and you can come back whenever the fuckyou one right just answers to this world, the daily show. I think that was during the twenty sixteen election when everybody wanted him to stay on. He just walked away. Dish pal, for different reasons, walked away.

disappeared, came back.

give away so much money, think, care. And I came back and was doing, like, stand up in the park in the of nowhere. genius. You have habib, who undefeated walks away at the very top of of the sport.

Is he coming back now? Done this? We don't know. Yeah.

right? You don't know. I don't know.

Mrs, everywhere where? Yeah, I think you know it's it's always a call. You know the last few years have been tremendous growth.

We launched in january twenty twenty one and even this last year twenty twenty four has been huge growth. You know in all sources away. It's been wild and we have some short form content planned thirty minute shorter episodes that really distill down the critical elements.

We're also thinking about moving other venues besides podcasting. So there's always the thought in the discussion. But when IT comes to like when to hanging up your cleat, you know it's like there's just come to natural time where you can do more to mentor the next generation coming in then focusing on self.

And so there will come in time for that. And I think it's critical. I mean, again, I saw this escape board like danny and Colin and danny's brother diamond started dc with ten block, the driver who unfortunate passed away a while ago, rally 2 driver。 And they eventually sold that, I think, to quick silver or something like that.

But there are all phenomenal talents in their respective areas. But they brought in the next on the next line of amazing writers, put the plan b thing, you know, paul rodgers know who this is, science. There are scientists like fineman, for instance.

I don't know if anyone can name one of his mentor offspring. So there are scientists who are phenomenal, like beyond the world, class, right, multi generational world class who don't make good mentors. I'm not saying he wasn't good matter, but that's not what he's known for.

And then there are scientists who are known for being excEllent sciences and great mentors. And I think there's no higher celebration to be had at the end of one's career. If you can look back and I K, I put some really important knowledge into the world. People made use of that knowledge.

And guess what? You bond all these other scientific offspring, or sport off spring, or podcast offspring. I mean, in some ways we look to rock in and to some of the other earlier pod casters like they they paved the way.

Run a Patrick for science podcast out there. So you know, IT, eventually the baton passes, but fortunately right now everybody's are active and and IT feels really good. Yeah well.

you're talking about the healthy way to do, but there's also ah a different kind of way where you have something like a grecia gregory prom, the mathematician who refused to accept the fields model so this one of the greatest living mathematicians and he just walked away from mathematics and rejected the fields model.

What did you do after he left mathematics .

life private one hundred percent? I respect .

that he's become .

essentially resist these photos. S of him looking very broke like he could use the money. He he turned away the money. He turned away everything. You know, there's, you should have to listen to the inner voice. You have to listen to yourself and make the decisions that don't making sense for the rest of world and make sense you .

bob Dylan den shop to pick up his nobel Price prize. That punk, yeah, yeah, he probably grew in no variety for that. Maybe this doesn't like going to sweden, but seemly would be fun trip.

I think they do IT in a nice time of years. But hey, that is right. He or not right?

I think the best artists aren't doing IT for the prize. They aren't doing IT for the fame of the money.

They're doing IT because they love the art. The rick rubin, he had a verbi through download your inner thing. I don't think we talked about this, that this obsession that I have about how rick has this way of being very, very still in his body, but keeping his mind very active as a practice when spent some time with them in italy last june.

And we would tread water in his pool in the morning and listen to history of rockin roll in hundred songs. Amazing podcast, by the way he is yeah and and then he would spend in a fair amount of time during the day know in this kind of meditative state where his mind d's very active body very still. And then cardross, when he came on my podcast, talk about how you forces themselves to sit still in thinking complete sentences late at night after his kids go to sleep.

And you know, there's a state of mind rapid eye vein sleep, where your body is completely paralyze and the mind is extremely active in people. Credit rapid, I move sleep with some of the more elaborate emotion, field dreams and the source of many ideas, and there are other examples, understand people described him as taking walks around the prince campus than pausing and would ask him what was going on. And the idea that his mind was continuing to turn forward at a high rate.

Um so you know this is far from controlled studies, but IT were turning out some incredible minds and creatives who have a practice of stealing the body while keeping the mind deliberately very active, very similar to rapid died moving sleep. And then there a lot of people who will also report, you know, great ideas coming to them in the shower while running. So IT can be the opposite as well, where the bodies very active in the in the mind is perhaps more on kind of like a default mode network, not really focusing on anyone specific thing.

You know, interesting. There's a bunch of physicists and mathematicians have talked to. They talk about sleep deprivation and going crazy hours to the night, obsessively pursuing a thing. And then the solution to the problem comes when they finally get rests.

right? And and we know we just do this six episode special series on sleep with matt Walker. We know that when you deprive yourself sleep and then you get sleep, you get a rebound in rapid ee movement sleep, you get a higher percentage of rapid I move sleep and map talks about this in the podcast and he didn't never sold on sleep and creativity sleep in memory and rabbit moments that comes up multiple times in that series.

Um there's also some very interesting stuff about cannabis withdraw and rapid di move. Sly people are coming off. Cannabis often will suffer from insomnia, but when they finally do start sleeping, they dreams like crazy. Cannabis is a very controversial topic right now.

Or yeah, I saw that would happen. This drama around the episode did on canvas.

Yeah, we did episode about cannabis, talked about the health benefits and the potential rest. Neither here or there depends on the person, depends on the age, depends on genetic background, a number of other things um we published that episode well over a year ago and I had no issues online, so to speak and then a clip of IT was put to x where you know the real action, of course, as you know, your favorite yeah ah the four ounce gloves as opposed to the sixteen ounce gloves that is x versus in for youtube.

There was a kind of in a meeting dogpile from a few people in the kennst research field to PHD and mds. There were people on our side. There were people on our side.

I mean, yeah the the statement I got things round up the most was the notion that for certain individuals, there is a high potential for inducing psychosis with high teaches sea containing cannabis for certain individuals not all um that Sparked some issues um there was really a split. You see this in different fields IT. There was one percent particular who came out swing with language that in my opinion is not like if the sort you would use that university uh venue um bash among colleagues. But that's fine .

you know when all grown ups well for me for my perspective is strAngely rude and IT had an era of like a leaders. That, to me, was the source of the problem, and during covered that LED to the distrust of science and the the popular zone of disrespecting science, because so many scientists spoke with an arrogance and a duce Bakery that I wish we would have a little bit less of.

Yeah, it's tough because most academics don't understand that people outside the university system are they they're not familiar with like the inner working is of science and in the culture. And so you have to be very careful how you present when you're a university professor.

And yes, I know he came out swing and know I have four other word type language in new obvious steps, said about size, simply said what I would say anywhere which he has hey, you come on the podcast less chat and want you give you tell me where i'm wrong and let's discuss in and fortunately, he agreed initially. He said, well know, how can I be sure you're not gonna represent me? And so I said, we got on a dm and e mail and metro phone call and just to hate, listen, like you're not going to record the whole conversation.

We ve never done a gotcha on my podcast and we just get to the heart of the matter. I think this the slow controversy is perfect um kindling for for a really great discussion and um and he had some other conditions that we worked out and and and I felt like cool, like he's really interested. You get a very different person on the phone, then you do on twitter.

I will say he's been very collegial and that conversation is on schedule. Instead, IT will fly you out, put you up. You said, no, he wants to fly himself.

He really wants to make sure that there's like kind of a space between, I think, some of the perception of science and health podcast and the academic community is that it's all designed to tell something. Now we run out so I can be freed. Everyone else, yes, but I think, look, in the end, he agreed.

And i'm excited for the conversation. IT was interesting because in the wake of that will exchange, there's been a bunch of press from traditional press about cannabis. Now surpassed alcohol in in many cultures, as within the united states, as when I say cultures, I mean demographics, the united states, as as the drug of choice.

There been people highlighting the issues of potential psychosis in hyda c containing. And so it's kind of interesting to see how traditional media, so of on board certain elements that you know I put forward in. I think there is some controversy as to weather up the different strains.

The index and statements as have are biologically different at that. So we would get down into the weeds on intended. But during that one, and i'm excited, it's the first time that we've responded to direct criticism online about scientific content in a way that really promoted like oh here the idea of inviting a particular guest and so it's great.

Let's get a guess to um is expert candia. I I believe I could be wrong, but this the is a behavioral neuroscientist is slightly different training. But look, he seems how I could actually be fun.

And we, you know, we welcome that kind of exchange. I deciding diplomatic. I'm just in like it's caught, like he's on on know and he was friendly on the phone, right?

Like he literally came out online, was like basic, like kind of like F, U, like F, S and F, U, but you get someone on the phone and say, hey as you go and then like, oh yeah well, you know I there was an immediate apology of like, hey, listen, I came out of Normally i'm like, not like that, but online you get a different okay, list. So it's a little IT a little bit like you did, right? People say all sorts of things. I, yes, but if if you're like, are right, let's go, then it's pretty different story.

It's not like because jest people don't talk shake because they know what the consequences are. Let me let me just say on mike and off mike, you have been very respectful tourist person, and I look up to you and respect you and admire the fact he happened. That said to me, that guy was being a dick. And when you graciously, politely invited on the podcast, he was still talking down to you the whole time.

So I really admire and look forward to listening to you talk to him, but I hope others don't do that, like you are a positive, humble voice, expLoring all the interesting aspects of science, like you want to learn, if there you've got anything wrong, you want to learn about IT the way he was being a dick. I was just hurt a little bit, not because of him, but because, like there are some people I really, really admire, brilliant scientists that are not the best sales on twitter, on ex definite. I don't understand what happens to their brain .

when they regret. They they regress and and they also are protected. You you know, when you remove the, I mean, no scientific argument should ever come to physically blows, right? But when you remove the real world thing of being right in front of somebody, people will throw all sorts of stones at a distance and over a wall.

And you've got their their wife or their husband or their boyfriend or their doggers their cats go cuddle with them afterwards um but you get a room and it's like, you know confrontational people in real life are pretty rare but hopefully if they do IT, they're like willing back IT up with knowledge. In this case, when I we're not talking about physical altercation, he he kept in and he kept putting on conditions. How do I know you want this? And I was like, well, you can record the conversion.

How do I know you want that? Listen, we will pay for you to come out. How do you know and eventually he just kind of relented and um in IT to his credit, you know he's agreed to come on. I mean still has to show up but once he does, you know will treat them right like we would any other guest.

Yeah, you treat people really well, and I just hope that people are a little bit nice. Are on the internet yeah.

you know, x is an interesting one because you IT thickens your skin. You know, to just go on there and then you have to be ready to deal with.

sure. But I can still criticize people for for being dush bags like that, still not good inspiring behavior, like, especially for scientists, that should be of symbols of scientific thinking, which requires intellectual humility. Humility is a big part of that. And twitter is a good place to illustrate that.

Yeah that years ago I used to I was a student in ta and instructive and then directed a cold spring harbor course on visual new science. These are summer courses that um explore different topics and at night we would host um what we hoped were battles in front of the students.

Um where you'd get two people on would IT be neural protheus s or molecular tools that would first, you know restore vision to the blind kind of arguments and you like this kind of silly argument because they can be accommodation of both, right? But you would get these great arguments, but the arguments were always touched in data and occasion. You'd get somebody would go like or would curse.

But he was the rare, very um very well placed, you know um insult IT wasn't know coming out swinging um I think ultimately you know twitters a record of people's behavior. The intern is a record of people's behavior. And here i'm not talking about news reports about people's behavior and talking about how people show up online is really important.

You've always Carried yourself for the tonic, composure and respect and know you just you would hope that people grow from that example. What's you the podcasts ers that i'm scouting their energy. But it's also how they treat other people, how they respond to comments.

And um you know we're blest to have pretty significant reach when we put out of pocket. Like if someone else is pockets, IT goes far and wide. So like a escape team, like a laboratory where you're selecting people to be in your lab, you want to pick people that you would enjoy working within their colleague, edit and edited is is lacking nowadays. You're in the sudden I bring IT back to back.

uh, you said that your conversation, James holly, a Young psychoanalyst, had a big impact.

James holst is a eighty four year old union psychoanalyst, is written seventeen books, including understand and shadow, which is on the healing of trauma, men eating eden project, excuse me, which is about relationships and creating a life. I discovered James Allison, an online lecture that was recorded, I think, in Sandy ago, is on youtube. But the audio is terrible, called creating a life.

And this was somewhere in the twenty eleven to twenty fifteen span, I can't remember. And I was on my way to ear up, and I call my girlfriend at the time. So I just found the most incredible lecture i've ever heard.

And he talked about the shadow. He talks about your developmental upbringing and how you either a line with or go one hundred eighty degrees off your parents tendencies and values in certain areas. He talked about the specific questions to ask of oneself at different times of life, to live up for life.

So it's always been a dream of mine to meet him in the record of podcast. And he wasn't tabled to travel. So our team was out to dc and SAT down within.

We rarely do that nowaday people come to our studio and he came in. He had surgeries or recently and and came in with some assistance from, you know, a and SAT down and just just blew my mind from start to finish. He didn't miss a ciller. And every sentence that he spoke was like a credible sentence of with real potency and actionable items.

I think one of the things that was most striking to me was how he said, when we take ourselves out of stimulus response and we just force ourselves to spend some time in the quiet of our thoughts while walking or while seated or well, lying down doesn't have to be meditation. But IT could be that we access our unconscious mind in ways that reveals to us who we really are and what we really want. And that if we do that practice repeatedly, ten months a day here, fifteen months a day there, that we start to really touch into our unique gifts and the things that make us each us and the directions we need to take, but that so often we just stay in stimulus response, we just do do do do do, which is great.

We have to be productive um but we miss those um important messages. And interestingly, he also put forward this idea of what is this, like get up, shut up, suit up. Yes, something like that like get out of bed, suit up and shut up and gets to work. He also has to adding them kind of a gog's type mindset. So to be able to.

Turn off all this self reflection and self analysis and just get you SHE had done.

but then also take, dedicate time and stop and just let stuff guide to the surface from the unconscious mind. And he quote shakespeare, and he quote Young, and he quote everybody through history with with incredible accuracy and um and in exactly the way needed to drive home a point.

But that conversation to me was one that I really got like, okay, you know, if I don't wake up tomorrow for whatever reason, that ones in the can and I feel really great about IT. IT to me is the most important um guest recording we've ever done um in particular because he has wisdom and while I hope he lives to be two hundred and four chances are he's got another one twenty thirty years with us, hopefully more. But I really, really wanted to capture that information and get IT out.

There is some very, very proud of that one. And he's the kind of guy that anyone listens to a Young, old, male, female, whatever. And you're going to get something of value.

What do you think about this idea of the shadow that a the good and the bad that we press that tides from plain site when we analyze ourselves that's there. I think there's like a ocean though we we don't have direct access to.

Yes, yeah. Young said that we have all things inside of us and we do, and some people are more in touch with those than others and some people's impressed. I mean, does that mean that we could all be you know horrible people or marvelous people but event people perhaps I think that um thankfully more often than not people lean away from the like violent and harmful parts of their their shadow but I think spending time thinking about you ones.

Shadow, shadows is super important. how? How also are we going to grow? Otherwise we have these unconscious, blind spots of denial or oppression or whatever, you know, the psychic st tell us, but yet clearly exists with in all this, I think we have neural circuits for rage, we all do. We have neural circuits for altruism um and known born without these things and some people are atrocity and some people they're hypertrophy. But I looking in word and recognizing what there is key or positive things .

like creativity, maybe that's what recruiting is accessing when he goes salad, somebody active mind, that's interesting. What is this for you? What place do you go to that generates ideas? That helps you generate ideas?

I have a lot of new practices around this. I mean, I always expLoring for protocols. I have to.

It's like in my nature, when I went to spend time with rick, I I tried to adopt his practice of staying very still and just letting stuff come to the surface or dirai an way of formula, complete sentences in while being still in the body. What I have found works Better is what my good friend to armstrong does to write music. He writes music every day.

His music producers of singer guitar place ranted, and he's help dozens and dozens and dozens of female pop artists and puncture artists write great songs. And many of the famous songs that you've heard from other artists, tim helped them, right? Tim wakes up sometimes in the midnight.

And what he does is he'll start drawing or painting. So what he's done, and Johnny Mitchell talked about this too. You find some creative outlet that's like fifteen degrees off center from your main creaative outlet, and you do that thing.

So for me, that's drawing. I like doing anatomical drawings, neuroscience based danger on neurons, that kind of. And if I do that for a little while, in my mind starts turning on the the nervous system and biology.

And then I come up with areas i'd like to explore for the podcast ways i'd like to address certain topics right now i'm very interested in autonomic control of beautiful paper came out that shows that anyone can learn to control their pup sizes without changing luminance through a biofeedback mechanism. Um and that gives them out control over. There are so called automatic, automatic nervous system.

And i've been looking at what the circuitry is and it's it's beautiful. Well, draw the circuitry that we know underlies auditor ic function. And as i'm doing that, i'm think you arent like, what about automatic control? Those people suppose they can control their people size, then you go in, there's a paper published in nature press, one of the nature journals, and there's a recent paper on this, like our cool, and then we talk about this.

And then how could this be put into a kind of a post, or how could this, you know, so doing things that are about fifteen degrees off center from your main thing is a great way to access. I believe the circuits for, in tims case, painting goes to song writing. I think, for john y mental, that was also the case, right? I think he was drawing and painting to singing and song writing for rick.

I don't know IT is maybe it's listening to podcast. I don't know that is his business. Do you have anything that you like to focus on that allows you then, and easier transition into your main .

creative work? Now i'd really like to focus on empty ness and silence. So I picked the dragon have to slice, or one of the problem of the work on. And I just sit there and there.

all of how fucking the near you are .

really just and if there's no, if you're tired, i'll just say I believe in the in the power of just waiting. And usually I stopped being tired. Or their energy rises from somewhere, an idea apart from somewhere.

But there needs to be a silence and an empty ness. It's an empty room. Just mean the dragon and we wait. That's IT like if it's usually with programing, you you're thinking about a particular design, a hidden de design, this thing to solve this problem, any .

cognitive enhancers. I've got a quite the gallery in front of me. That's right. yes. Should we walk through this not sales? And um I tend to do this bounce back. And for the year, refrigerators happen to have a lot of different choices of waters. All there's no food in there. There is water, there is element which they now have canned yeah and yes, there are a pocket sponsor for both of us, but that's not White cracked one of these, but I like them.

provide they'ld. And that's, by the way, my least favorite flavors. I was saying that the reason is still in the fridge.

This Cherry one is really good.

The black Cherry, there's an orange one. yeah.

I pushed the sled this morning and pulled the sled from my workout at the gym in. And IT was hot today here in Austin. So some salt is good.

And then Martina, a year, burma, zero sugar, full confession, I helped develop the some, a partial owner, but I love your brother half arg pender heat, mutate and sells a little kid. There's actually a photo somewhere on the internet when I like three sitting, oh, my grandfather's lap, sipping mote out the guard. And then this, my fun, interesting.

This is just a little bit of coffee with a scoop of brian Johnson. Give me coco, just like peer on sweeten. coco.

So I put that in chocolate. I like IT IT just for the taste, but actually knooks my appetite. And since I were not going out to dinner this night until later, I figure that's good. Yeah, bryan's an interesting one, right? He's really pushing this this thing.

the optimization of, yeah.

although he just heard his ankle, he posted a hoof. He hurt his ankle. So now he's injecting BBC body protection compound, one, five, seven, which many, many people are taking. By the way, I did an episode on peptides. I should just say, you know, bpc one, five, seven.

One of the known effects in animal models is antia genesis, like development of new vascular, or which can be great in some context but also if you have a tumor, you don't really want to arise that tumor anymore. So I worry about people taking B, C one continue. But um and there's very little human data.

I think it's like one study and it's a lousy one. A lot of animal data, some of the peptides are interesting however, there's one that i've experimented with a little bit called pinion which um I find he must have just taken IT twice a week before sleep. Then at times IT seems to do something to the so kidding in times epm mechanism because then on other days when I don't take IT, I get unbelievably tired at that time that Normally I would do the injection. These are things that all experiment with for a couple of weeks and then typically stop, maybe tries something else, but I stay out of um things that really stimulate any of the major hormonal pathways.

When he comes to peptides, there's actually a really good question of how do you experiment like how long do you try to think to figure out if IT works for you?

Well, i'm very sensitive to these things, so I and I have been doing a lot of things for a long time. So if I add something in is always one thing at a time and I know this right away, if IT does not make me feel good, like there's a lot of excitement about some of the so called growth hormones secreted ayo morland temari server yan um i've experiment a little bit with those in the past and they've new to my rapper ei movement sleep but giving me a lot of deep with which doesn't feel good to me but other people like them.

I also just generally trying avoid taking peptides that tap into these warm pathways because you can run into all sorts of issues, but some people take them safely. But usually after about four, five days, I know if I like something or I don't and then I move on. But I am not super adventurous with these things. I know people that will take cocktails of peptides with multiple things. Try anything that's not me and I do blood work um but also you know I mainly reading papers and podcasting and um i'm teaching a course next spring stanford gonna do a big undergraduate course um i'm trying to developed that course and things like that so um I don't need to lift more weight or run further .

than I already do which is not that much waiter or far .

as IT is whatever no seven percent body fats, something I don't I don't have those kinds of goals. So hydration, electoral ze caffeine in the form of mute. And then this cafe. And then and then here's the one that I think I brought out for discussion. This is a piece of nick at they're not a sponsor.

Um nickel is an interesting compound IT will raise blood pressure and IT IT is why not stay for everybody? But you know the nickel is gaining in popularity like crazy, mainly these pouches that people put in the lip. Not we're not time out.

I'm smoking wapping to or nothing. You know, my interested in nickey started. This was in two thousand and ten.

I was visiting colombia medical school, and I was in the office of the great nearby logic. Richard axel on the noble prize, corey pent with landmark for the discovered the molecular basis of all faction. Brilliant guy.

His problem is late seventies now. And he kept popping nick red in his mouth. And I said, what's this about? He said, well, well, this was just anecdote, everybody said, but he said this, he said, oh, you know, IT protects against parkinson's and alzheimer's.

He said, he does. Yes, yeah, I don't know he was kidding or not. He's known for making jokes. And then he said that when he used to smoke, he really helped his focus on creativity. But then he quit smoking because he want lung cancer.

Found that he can focus as well so he would choose nick at so occasionally, like right now I do a half of peace, but i'm not russian, so I did. You use pop thing you now, so i'll do couple milligrams every now again. And IT definitely sharpens the mind on an empty stomach s in particular. But you fast all day, you're still doing .

one million day meal day. Yeah, I did a power rogan at dinner. Hi.

yeah, that's a lot. That's like usually sex eight milligrams. I know people that get a canister of take one a day, person taking a canister a day. So yet, to be very careful, I will only allow myself two pieces of neglect total per week.

And you will notice that in the day after you use that, you know, sometimes your throat will feel a bit like like a little about me, like you might want to go off once or twice. And so, you know, you're singer, your podcast or something, you have to do long podcast. You want to be mind for you. But yeah, you're supose to, I like, keep IT in your chicken. Here.

we hope that did make me intensely focused in a way that was a little bit scary .

because the nucleus pistole s is the, you know, basic for brain nucleus has coleridge neurons that radiate out act on the wires that released a see to calling into the new cortex and elsewhere. And when you focus on one particular topic matter, or one particular area of your visual field, or listening to something in focusing visually, we know that there's a an elaboration of the amount of a set calling released there.

And IT bns to nicki nicea calling reception sites there. So it's a kind of an attentional modulation by the calling. So you getting with nicky teen, you're getting x ogan as the artificial heightening of that circuitry.

And the time I had talked across on the podcast, he told me that apparently IT helped him, as he said publicly, a keep his love life viBrant really IT caused .

visual constriction. He literally .

said he makes a dick very hard. He said that publicly also .

okay well as the little as I want to think about tucker carsons sex life um notice suspect uh the major effective nickey on the vascular are my understanding is that IT caused visual constriction, not visual dillaway drugs like seal the dolphin diagrams that are based a dilecta. They allow more blood flow, nick teen does the opposite, less blood flow to the proferred, but provided dosages are kept low. And I I don't recommend people use IT frequently or at all, and I don't recommend Young people use that you know twenty five and Younger brains, very plastic at that time and um and certainly smoking dipping vapor is nothing not aren't good because you're going to a run into we were running trouble h for other reasons but in the case um or even there vapors the controversial topic sit probably say for them smoking but has its own issues and I said something like that and boy did I catch a lot of heat for that. I can't say something as a healthy that you care not to somebody just depends on where the the start masses and how far outside that you are.

For me the caffeine is the main thing and actually this is a really big part of my life. And one of things you recommend that people wait a bit in the morning .

to consume if they experience a crash in the afternoon. This is one of the misconceptions um I regret, maybe even disgusting for people that crash in the afternoon often times if they delay their caffeine by sixty and eighty months in the morning, they will offset some of that. But if you eat a lunch this to be or you didn't sleep all the night before, you not going to avoid that afternoon crash.

But i'll wake up sometimes I go straight to hydration, caffeine, especially from a workout. Here's a weird one. If I exercise before eight thirty A M, especially if I started exercising when I look IT tired, I get energy that last all day. If I wait until my peak of energy, which is mid morning ten, eleven A M, and I start exercising then and basic, exhAusting all afternoon, and I don't understand why IT depends on the intensity of the workout, but would I like to be done, showered and heading into work by nine am, but I don't always meet that more.

So you're saying IT doesn't affect your energy. If you start with exercising.

I think you can get energy and wake yourself up with exercise if you started early and and then that fuels you all day long. I think that if you wait until you're feeling at your best to train, sometimes that's detrimental because then in the afternoon when you're doing like the work we get paid for, like research podcasting said a then often times you know your your brain isn't firing as well. Yes.

interesting. I ve been really rigorous.

Ly tried that wake up and just start running or less the jo thing. And then there's this phone enon called in training, where if you force yourself to exercise or eat or socialized or view bright light at a certain time of day, for three to seven days in a row, pretty soon there's an instigator circuit that gets generate. This is why anyone, in theory, can become a morning person, to some degree, another.

And this is also a beautiful example, why you wake up before your own clock off. People wake up and all that goes off. IT wasn't because IT collected, because you have this incredible time keeping mechanism that exist in sleep.

There are some papers have been published last couple of years. Nature, neuroscience and elsewhere are showing that people can answer math problems in their sleep. Simple math problems, but mather's non the left. This does not mean that if you ask your partner a question and sleep that they're going to answer accurate .

like they might screw up the whole uh, community probability of twenty percent across multiple months. Are I listen.

what happened? What happened here is a deal. Few years back, I did a four and a half hour after editing four and half hour episode on male, male fertility.

The entire recording took eleven hours. And at one point in the, and by the way, i'm very proud of that episode. There's many couples have written to me and said they now have children as a consequence to that episode. And my first question is, what were you doing during the episode? But in all seriousness.

we should say that four and a half hours. And for people that they should listen to the episode, it's extremely technical episode. You're not stop dropping facts. And in referencing huge number of papers, IT must be exhaust. I don't understand how you can possible .

helps from a jus to talk about the obvious tory cycle, talk about things people can do that are that are considered absolutely supported by size, to talk about some of things about on the edge a little bit, that a little bit more experimental talks about I V F IT talks about x IT talks about um all of that IT talks about frequency of pregNancy as a function of age. It's tara. Um but there's this one portion there in the podcast where I am talking about the a probability of a successful pregNancy as a function of age. And so there was a clip that was caught in which I was describing human of probability.

And by the way, we published humility probability historians and many of my laboratories papers, including one, there was a nature article in twenty eight team so we run this all the time and yes, I know the difference between independent and humility probability that I do um the way the clip was cut and what I stated unfortunately combined to a like a pretty great gaff where I say you just adding so I said you just adding person is twenty twenty to one hundred and twenty percent and then I made us of unfortunate my humors and always so good and I made a joke I said um hundred and twenty percent but that's a different thing altogether what I should have said was um that's impossible you know and here here's how would actually works but then IT continues where I then described the cumulative ably historia for um successful pregNancy. But somewhere in the early portion I misstated something right I made a math r um which implied I didn't understand the difference in tune, independent and humility probability, which I do. And IT got picked up and and run and people had a really good laugh with that one at my expense.

And so what I did in response to IT was rather than just everything I just said now, I said, I just came out online and said, hey, folks in the episode dated this on fertility. I made a math. Or here is the formula for humanity, probability, successful pregnant y at that age.

Here's the graph. Here's the know. And I offer is a teaching moment in two ways. One, for people to understand human or probability. We started interesting to a number of people that come out critical. The gf also, like ology and folks came out putting out that they didn't understand command probabilities, that there was a lot of postering, you know the dog pile often times people were quick to dog pile, they didn't understand, but a lot of people they understand IT some smart people out.

They're obviously I call my dad and he was just laughing he goes, this is good is like the old school way of hammering academics um but the point being there is a teaching moment um give me an opportunity to say, hey, I made a mistake. I also made mistake another podcast where I um did a micron to millimetre e conversion and will send a meter conversion. But and we always correct these in the shown up captions.

We correct them in the audio now um unfortunate on youtube it's harder to correct kinko and edit in segments we put in the captions. But that was one teaching moment. If you make a mistake is subsidy and relate to data, you you apologizing, corrective mistake, use this teaching moment.

The other one was to say, hey, you know you know, all the thousands of hours of content we've put out. I'm sure i've made some small errors. I think I once said they are tone, I dop me and you're going, you you're ripping and it's a reminder to be careful to edit double check.

But the internet usually at its for us and then we go make corrections. But I didn't feel good at first. But ultimately, you know, I can laugh at myself about IT long ago at berkeley when I was team my first class IT was a biotechnology class to one thousand and ninety eighty and one thousand ninety nine.

Um I was drawing the patuit re glad, which is has a enter in a poster low actually a media lobe to at five, five, six hundred students in the lecture hall and I drew a chock board and I drew the two lobes of the patuit arian. I said my book was to the islands, I said, you know and so they just sort of hang there and everyone just erupted in laughter because IT looked like a throwing with two testicles. S and I remember thinking, like, oh my god, like, I don't think I can turn around like, and face this, you know, and got turn dinner later.

So I turned around and we just all had to be laughed together. He was embarrassing. I'll tell you one thing though, they never forgot about the two lobes of the petite ory yeah and you haven't forgotten about either, right? There's a high, high stales for these kinds of things.

And IT also was kind of fun to see how excited people get to see people trip. It's like an elite sprinter trip and does something stupid like, you know, runs the office direction of the blocks or something like that. And and or you know, ever call that one world cup match.

Years ago, a guy scored against his own team. I think they do you remember that some south american or central american team and they killed the guy? Yeah, just let's look IT up.

I just had more cup. yeah. He was gunned down esko .

bar and sort the long team in nineteen ninety four world cup in the united states. Just twenty seven years old playing for the colombia national .

team here.

Good name. Think you would protect you.

listen. You know, so there are some gaps that get people are killed, right? So, you know, help for giving R, V for online mistakes, you know, is that is the nature of the mistakes. People are quite gracious about the the gap and somewhere.

And you know it's interesting that we, as you know, public health science to educators, you know, we'll do long podcast sometimes and you need to be really careful what's greatest ai allows you to check these things now more readily. So that's cool. And there are ways that, that is now going to be more self correcting. I mean, and I think there's there's a lot of errors out there on the internet and people are finding them in school like things are getting cleaned, ed up.

Mistakes, never that will happen. Are you to feel the pressure of not making mistakes?

sure. I mean, you know, I trying get things right to the best you to the best of my ability I check with experts is kind of interesting when people really don't like something that was set in a podcast a lot times I chucked because you know a time for way of some amazing scientist but I talked to them else people elsewhere um and it's always interesting to me how. You know, i'll get divergent information and then i'll find the overlap of the then diagram.

And I have this like question, do I just stay with the overlap in the then diagram? Though I didn't episode on oral health, I didn't know this until a research that epo de but oral health is critically relate to heart health and brain health that there's a bacteria that caused cavity structure caucus, you know, that can make its way into other parts of the body through the mouth um can cause serious issues. There is the idea that some forms of dementia, some forms of heart disease, are starting the mouth.

Basically, I talk to no fewer than four dentist dentil experts, and there was a lot of convergence. I also learned that he can demonize, that the formation of ties, they can also realize, as long as cave into deep, they can actually fill itself back in. Especially if you provide the right substrates for IT, that saliva is an incredible fluid that has all this capacity to realize teeth provided the meal.

You is right? Things like alcohol is mouth washes killing off some of the critical things you need is fascinating. And I put out that I was also not dented health up to patric, terrific, one doctor, downtown ore stac S T, A, C.

I. On and streamed as great content to some others. And and then I just waited for the attack was here we go and I didn't come and denis, we're thinking me, oh, you know, that's a rare thing.

More often than not, if I do an episode about M A, you get some people liking in their A D, H D and the drug's rad h, he would have whole episode on the riddle, vivat or stuff. You get people saying, thank you. You know, I prescribed this to my kid, and IT really helps this.

And I, but they're private about the fact that they do IT because they get so much attack from other people. So I like to find the center of mass report that try to make as clear as possible. And then I know that there's some stuff where I want to catch shit.

What frustrating for me is when, like, I see claims that i'm like against florida zone of water, which i'm not right, like we talked about, the benefits of floria builds hyper strong bonds within the teeth. And when IT looked at some of the the literally crustal structure, not, excuse me, not the critter structure, but the the essentially that like micron and the micro structure of teeth is incredible. And where floor, I can get in there, inform the super strong bonds, and you can also form them with things like, I drop the appetite, why is the floor riding water? Well, the best.

Okay, you get, you say some things that are interesting, but then somehow he gets turned into like you're against for a decision which i'm not or i've been accused of being against. Sun screen, I wear mineral by sun stream on my face. I don't want to get skin cancer, but I use a physical barrier.

There is a cohort to people out there that think that all sun screen are about i'm not one of them, i'm not what's called the sun screen truth er, but then you get attacked for IT like if you so we're talking there are certain sun screens that are problematic. So what in ra Patricks now starting to get vocal about this. And so there are certain topics is interesting for which you have to listen carefully to what somebody is saying.

But there's a lumper or lumping is opposed to splitting of of of what health educators say. And so IT just seems like like with politics, there's this like urgency, just put people into a camp of expert verses like relegate or something and it's not like that is just not like that. So the short answers is I really strive, really strive to get things right, but I know that i'm going to pissed certain people off.

And you've taught me and joe taught me and other podcasts ers have taught me that like if you worry too much about IT um then you are not going to get the newest information out there like peptides ed, there's a very little human data unless you're talking about by least year the milli you know stuff in the alpha milani stimulating and hormones stuff which are prescribed ed for female lebel to enhance female ab do or server elin, which is for certain growth home on efficient with rare exception. There's very little human data, but people are still super interested in. A lot of people are taking in doing these things.

So you want to get the information. Now, do you try to not just look at the science, but research what the communities are talking with, the various communities are talking about, like maybe research with the conspiracy there are talking about, just so you know, all the arms they are going to be attacking your castle.

yes. So like for instance, there is a community of people online that believe that like if you consume c oils or something that like you setting up your skin for sunburn and a few down, you know, like there's all is like theories. But I like, so I like to know what the theories are.

I like to know what the extremes are, but I also like to know what the standard conversation is. But there is generally more agreement than disagreement. I think where, you know, i've been kind of bullish actually is know like supplements, like people are stopped.

Well, there's food supplements, like a protein powder, different. And then there are compounds, there are compounds that have real benefit. But people get very nervous about the fact that they are not regulated, but some of them are voted with for potency and for safety, with with more rigger than others, you know.

And it's interesting to see how people who take care of themselves and put a lot of work into that are often attacked. That's been interesting also one of the most controversial topics nowadays emps monja. I'm very middle of the road on this.

I don't understand why the court health wellness community is so against these things. I also don't understand why they have to be looked at as the only road for some people. They really help them lose weight.

And yes, there can be some muscle loss and other an lean body loss, but that can be offset with resistance training. They've helped a lot of people. And other people are like, know, this stuff is terrible.

I think the most interesting thing about authentic icc monja a is that they are G P D A, G O P one, P I G like pepi one. And IT was discovered in hilo monsters, which is A A lizard, basically. And someone that now the, now the antioch gist will die on me.

It's a big, big lizard looking thing that doesn't eat very often. And they figured out that there's a peptide that allows IT to carbon appetite at the level, the brain and the gut, and has a lot of homology to sequence homology to what we now call G, L P won. So I love at any time there's animal biology links to cool, human biology links to A A drug that's powerful that can help people with obesity and type two diabetes and there's evidence that can even curb some addictions.

Um those are newer data, but I don't see is IT either or in fact, have been a little bit disappointed at the way that the whatever one to call health wellness biohacking community has like slammed on olympic monja like they're like just get out and running. Listen, there are people are Carrying substantial amounts of weight that running could injure them. They get on these drugs and they can improve. And then hopefully they are also doing resistance training and eating Better than you, bring you all the elements together.

What do you think the criticism is happening? Is that olympic became super population of people misusing IT .

or that kind thing? No, I think what IT is, is that people think if it's a pharmacy ticals, it's bad. And then or if it's a supplement, it's bad depending on which campus are in and and IT won't be wonderful. That kind like filling the gap between the divide.

You know, what I would like to see in politics and in health is neither right nor left of what we can just call a league of reasonable people that looks at things on initial by issue basis and fills in the center because I think most people are in the are I don't want they center in a political way, but I think most people are reasonable. They want to be reasonable. But that's not what cells clicks.

That's not what that's not what drives interest. But i'm a very like like I look at issue by issue, person by person. I don't like in group out groups of I never have i've got friends from all walk to life. I said another podcast and always sounds like get like a political statement. But at the the the push towards like, you know, polar ization is is so frustrating if there's one thing that discharging to me as as I get older each year, like are we ever gonna out of this like polar ization? We can wish how are you going to vote for the president of election?

I'm still trying to figure out how to interview the people involved and do IT well.

What do you think the role of podcasting is gonna in this year's election?

I would love a long form conversation to happen with with the candidates, I think can be huge. I would love trump to go on, rogan. I am embarrassed to say this, but I would love to honestly would love to see joo bin go on.

Joe rogan, also, I would imagine that both would go on, but separately.

separately, I think it's, I think a debate. Joe does debates, but I think joe is best. Is one to one conversation really intimate? Um I I just wish the job and I would actually do long from conversations I thought .

he had done that I won me, I think was on j shady.

He did j shady. He did. He did a few but when I mean long for I mean um really long form like to three hours and more relax, there was much more orchestrated because what happens when it's the interview but too short IT becomes .

into the .

generic a political type of N B C C N N type of interview. You get a set of questions if you don't get to really feel the human exposed, the human to the light in at the fall we talked about the shadow, the good, the bad, ugly. So I think there's something magical about two, three, four hours, but IT doesn't have to be that long. But IT has to have that feeling to IT where there's not people standing around in everybody's nervous and you're going .

to be .

strictly sticking to the question answer type feel but just shooting shit, which rogan is the best by far in the world at that?

I I don't think people really appreciate how skilled he is at what he does. And the number of in the three or four podcast per week, plus U S announcing, plus comedy tours and stadiums, plus you know doing comedy shows in the middle the week plus. He has been a father and a friend.

And you just do guys got like super human levels of output. I I agree that long form conversation is a whole other business. And I think that people want and deserve to know the people that are running for office that a in a different way and to really get to know them. Um well, listen, you know, I guess you mean, is IT clear that he's gona do jail time or maybe he gets a way fine I say, I mean, does that mean you to be podcasting from .

imprison were going to fact i'm going to figure out how to commit a crime so I can get in prison. Well, that yes, i'm sure they have visitors right? That just doesn't feel enough like to great to get the interview of what I understand .

you wouldn't be able to wear that suit. You'd be wearing a different suit. medium.

Yeah, this can be interesting. You do. I am not just saying this because you're my friend. You would do a marvel job. I think you should stay down with all of them separately to keep IT civil and um and see what what happens. Here's one thing that i've found really interesting in this whole political landscape.

When i'm in los Angeles, I often get invited to these like do not dinner but gatherings where you know a local um you know bunch of broadcasters will come together, but lot of people from the entertainment industry, big agencies, big tech like big big tech, many that people been on this podcast and theyll host a discussion debate. And what you find if you look around the room and you talk to people, is that about half the people in the room are very left leaning and very outspoken about that, and they're you exactly who they want to see in the the win, the presentin race. And the other hf will tell you that there for the other side, a lot of people that people assume are on one side of the year or the other are in the exact opposite side. Now some people who are very open about who therefore, but it's been very interesting to see how um when you get people one on one, they're like telling you they want x cannot to win or why candidate to win and sometimes is like really I can't believe IT like you like IT and so is what people think about um people's political is is often exactly wrong and and that's been I opening for me and i've see that university campuses too and so this can be really, really interesting to see what happens in in november.

In addition to that, as you said, most people are close the center despite what twitter makes you seem like. Most people with the center right? Close the center.

Yeah I mean, here's to me the most interesting question. Who is gonna the next big candia in years to come? Like who's that going to be right now? I don't I don't I don't see you know of that person who's gonna beat .

the Young promising candidate were not seeing them when I say, I put another way to ask that question, who would want to be well.

that's the issue, right? You know who wants to live in this twelve, our new cycle where you're just trying to you know don't call the other teams that nobody notices like the should that you fucked up, you know like that that's not like that's not only not fun or interesting IT, also just like it's gotta psychosis in doing at some point. And I think that if you know, god willing, we're going to know some Young guy woman is like on this and refuses to to back down and was just determined to be president and will make that happen but like I don't even know who the vivo candidate are, maybe you looked, you know we should have started sarga would know yeah yeah.

maybe Sarah himself .

sarga here is awesome. Cristal do a great he's incredible. But since they have somewhat divergent opinions on, yes.

that's what makes so cool if he looks and that .

looks a real care, I think he's get married soon. congratulations. I forgive me for not remembering your future wife name.

Ah he won my heart by giving me a biography of hit.

There is a present that's really gave you yeah, I gave you A A hatchet with the poems .

that shows the fundamental .

different, the women's try IT.

which you was pretty and good.

I realized everything we bring up on the screen is like, really depressing, like the socket player getting killed. Can we bring us something happy?

Ah, sure. We're going to. In nature, metal m prety .

intense, we actually did a collaboration post on on a shark thing.

really. Yeah, what kind of shark thing?

So to generate the fear VR stimulus for my lab in twenty was IT. Yet twenty sixteen we went down to waterloo, ia island, off the coast of mexico. Mean, a guy in Michael muller, who's a very famous porter photographer, but also takes photos of sharks.

And we used three sixty video to build VR of great White sharks right out about the lab. We published that study in current biology in twenty seventeen, went back down there. And that was the year that I acted at the cage.

You lower the cage of the crane. And that year I acted the cage. I had a whole mass with the air failure the day before I was breathing from a hook in while in the cage, I had no scoop on. Divers were out, the thing that both constructed red up. And I had an air failure, and I had to actually share air.

And IT was a whole mass story for another time but the next day, because I didn't want to get ptsd and IT was pretty red the next day I cage acted um with the mother divers and in turns out with these great White sharks in whit the water very clear you can swim toward them and then they're theyll year off you if you swim toward them, others SE they see you as pray well in the evening you've brought all the cages up in your hopefully all alive and we were hanging out fishing for tuna we had but one of the the crew on board head A A line in the water was fishing for tuna for dinner. And a shark took the tuna off the line. And IT is a very dramatic take.

And you can see the the just absolute size of these great White church, the waters they are filled with them. That's the one. But so this video, just the neural link.

Link was shot by nmc google, who is the head? Neo urgent neural like there? IT is takes that now, believe or not, that looks like I missed, like I didn't get the fish IT actually just cut that thing like a band store. So i'm up on the deck with that. yeah.

And so when you look at IT from the side, you really get a sense of of the the girls of this can think so as IT comes out, you size that thing and they move into the water with such speed, just a couple of three, when you're in the cage and the cage is lowered down below the surface, you're going around, you're not allowed to jump the water there. Some people do IT, but and then when U K. Jx did not like, what what are you doing out here? And then you know, they you swim towards theyve wear off.

But what's interesting is that if you look at how they move through the water, all IT takes for one of these great White sharks when IT sees a tune or something once, is like too flix of the tale and becomes like a missile. It's just unbelievable economy of effort. And ocean ramsey, who is in my opening in the greatest of all, cage exit shark divers, this woman who do with enormous create White sharks SHE, really understands their behavior when they're aggressive, when they're not gonna aggressive. SHE in her husband won.

I believe his name is, do they have understand how the tiger sharks differ? The great White sharks? We were down there basically like not understanding any of this.

We never should have been there. And actually the area failure of the day before, plus cage jacks in the next day, I told myself after coming up from the cage. Jx, that's IT.

I'm no longer taking risks with my life. I want to live. Got back across the border um couple days later. I think that's IT. I don't take a risk with my life any longer. But yet my google naming to go shot that video and then IT went corning viral through a in natures medal. We passed on that video actually .

I saw a video where an instructor was explaining how to behave with the shark in the water. And then you don't want to be swimming away because then you're acting like a prey, and then you want to be acting like a parade by looking at and .

swimmer in their back off. Now if you don't see them, their ambush swim in the surface and .

apparently if they get close, you should just like guide them away by like grabbing them and moving away.

Some people actually know them um but if they're common info B D you're not onna roll the shark. But here we are back to dark stuff again. I like the shark attack map. And the shark attack map shows that in northern california there were a couple actually guys head got taken off. He was swimming north of time ago. There's been a couple of northern california that was really tragic, but most of her in florida, in australia, lda, the surfrider foundation shark attack map there IT is had they have a great map there, you so they look like the cars on them. So if you if you use zoom in on, I think this if you go to north america.

look at calls.

there's yeah there are deadly attacks, but in yeah northern california, sadly, this is a really tragic if you zoom on this one. Um I read about this, this guy, if you can click the link, fifty year old mill, he was in chest high water. This is just tragic.

I feel so sad for him and his family. You know, he's just three members of the party chose to go in. He was nine.

Ji was in his chest high water, twenty five to fifty ards from shore, great breach water, seas, this head. And that was IT, you know. So IT does happen. It's very infrequent if you don't co in the ocean is a very, very, very low probability.

But but if IT doesn't happen six times in a one hundred and .

twenty person chance.

yeah, everything wins. A salt water crocodile or shark OK.

I do not like salt water crock. Me to know moller, Michael moller, who the world, he sent me a picture of him diving with something, saw water trucks in cuba. IT was a smaller one, but he have seen the size of some of the water drop.

Ah in the sharks are so agile they're amazing. They've had camp one or body camp one moving through the cut bed. Um and you looking into just there, so how how moving through the water and and it's looking up at the surface like the cameras in the service. And you just realized if you're out there, you not and you're swimming and you get hit a short.

you gona talk shit and say that assault has more bite force. But according the internet recently data indicates that the shark has a stronger bite. So I I was assuming that a cockpit, I would have A A stronger of bite force and therefore jelly doesn't matter. But apparently shark.

yeah, and turning one of those big sales, this is probably not that turning around is like a battleship. I mean, no, sharks are on believing they hit from all sorts. Oh, and they they do this thing we saw this year out of the cage ury in the cage, you and you look at one and you'll see it's I kind of like looking at you. They can't really fov y IT, but theyll look at you and you're tracked in IT and then you'll look down and you will realized that once coming at you, they're english players. They are working together.

The fascinating I like how you know that they can't fully you already considering the vision sym there and is a very .

prisident primitive on started had their vision is decent enough. They're mostly obviously sensing things with their electorate, sensing in the water but also um of faction um yeah I spent far too much time thinking about and learning about the the visual systems of different animals. If you get me going on this, like we will be .

here all night and I got IT cause this is from a shark .

I can say ever, anna, eat this big, but it's beautiful. Yeah, it's the only prior your blood pressure just goes .

and you feel.

feel before we went down for the cage, like a guy in our crew, paddock s very experiences. Diver asked one of the south african divers, so so what, you know, like what's the contingency plan if, like, somebody catches a bike and they were like, he was like every man for himself, and like, basically staying like somebody catches a bite, like, that's IT. You know, anyway, I thought we were going to bring .

up something happy that .

is happy we nature is beautiful yeah nature is beautiful. We live um but you know that there there are happy things. You run up nature as metal this day this is the difference between russian yeah americans and americans is like maybe is that actually a good time to bring up your IOS ka journey i've never done I osca um but i'm curious about IT i'm also curious about I begin ebola a um but you told me that you did I OK and that for you IT wasn't the dark scary ride that IT is for everybody else yeah IT was .

an incredible experience for me.

I did IT twice actually and have you done hyde .

so ibn never know. I just yeah small do so in a couple times so I was you know, nervous about I .

was understand i've suicide and it's terrifying, but i've always got to something very useful out of IT.

So I mean, I was nervous about like whatever demons might hide in the shadow, in the union shadow. I was nervous. But I think IT turns out I don't know what the lesson is to draw from that.

But my experience, people, boys, russian IT must, I must be the russian thing. I think there also something to the jungle. There IT strips away all the bullshit of life.

And you're just, dare I? I forgot the outside civilization exists. I forgot time. Because like, when you all have your phone, you don't have meetings, recalls whatever, you lose the sense of time. The sun comes up.

The sun comes down at the the fundamental biological timer. You know, every male species has a short wavelan. So you think like blue uv typed, like like absorbing cone and a longer wavelength absorbing cone and and IT does this interesting subtraction to designate when it's morning in the evening? Because when the sun is low in the sky, you've got short wave length, long wave of light.

Like when you look at a sunrise, got blues and yellows or Angeles, you can in the evening red origin and blues and in the middle, it's like for spectrum light. Now it's always for spectrum light. But because of some atmosphere ic elements and because of the little solar angle you like, that difference between the different wavelength light is is the fundamental signals that the neurons in your eye pay attention to and signal that your circadian time keeping mechanism, like we are, that the core of our brain in the supermarket, sm tic nucleus. We are we are like wired to be in trained to the rising instead ing of the site like that, the biological time when you makes perfect sense, because obviously as the planets, as the planets spin and revolve, I also wondered .

to like how that is affected by, know in the reinforce, the sun is not visible often. So you're under the cover, my trees so maybe that affects well.

their social rhymes. They are feeding rhymes sometimes in in terms of some species will signal the timing of activity of either species and um but yeah getting out from the canopy is is critical. Of course, even under the canopy during the daytime, there's far more photons.

Then at night, you this always when i'm telling people to get sunlight in the eyes in the morning and in the evening, people, there's no light, no sunlight. This time I here and I go outside on a really overcast day, it's far brighter than IT is at night, right? So there's still lots of summer light, even if we can see the sun is object.

But I love time perception shifts. And you mention that in the jungle is linked to the rising and setting in the sun. You also mention on IO aska, you doomed out from the earth.

They like, to me, the most interesting aspects of having a human brain is supposed to another brain, not only ever had a human brain, but which is that you can consciously set your time domain window like you can. We can be focused here. We can be focused on all of Austin or we can be focused on the entire planet.

You can make those choices consciously, but in the time domain is is hard, like different activities bring us in to find slicing more or more broad binning of time depending on what we're doing programing or exercising or researching or podcasting. But um just how unbelievably um fluid the human brain is in terms of its uh the apple of of the time of space window, of our cognition, an and of our experience. And I I feel like this is perhaps one of the more valuable tools that we have access to that we don't really leverage as much as we should, which is when things are really hard.

You need to zoom out and see IT as one element within your whole lifespan and that there's more to come. No, I mean, people commit suicide because they can't see beyond the time domain they're in or they think it's gna go on forever um when we're happy, we rarely think this is gonna forever. But what is the interesting contrast is all right but I think that psychedelics, while I have very little experience with my, I have sam and and IT, sounds like they are just a very interesting window into the the different epicures.

Well, how to serve that way is probably a skill I do. One of the things I was prepared for, and I think is important, is not to resist. I think I understand what he means to resist the thing.

A powerful wave IT is not going to be good. They have to be able to surface. It's already for that to relax to IT. And maybe because i'm quite good at that .

from knowing .

how to relaxed in all kinds of disciplines playing piano and a guitar and also be Young, and to digits knowing the value into all kinds of sports should be able to relax the body full. You just accept whatever happens to you. That process is probably why was a very positive experience for me.

Did you have any interesting in a boga? I'm very interesting. I begin. Ebola a there is a colleague, mine and researchers is camford and Rowan Williams, who's been doing some transcranial magnetic stimulation and brain imaging on people who have taking A I begin I begin um as I understand that gives a twenty two hour like a delic journey where no pollution nations with eyes open and close your eyes and you get A A very high resolution image of actual events that happened in your life. But then you have agency within those movies.

I think you have to be um of healthy heart to be able to do and and I think you have to be on a heartbreak monter. It's not trivial. It's not like these other psychologists um but there is a wonderful group called Better and solutions um that has used the boga combined with um some other psychiatric um in the veterans community to to great success for things like ptsd.

And it's a group i've i've really tried to support in in any way that I can mainly baby vocal about the great work they're doing. But um you hear incredible stories of people who are just like like new crater in their life was zombie by ptsd and other things post war um get back a lightness or achieve a lightness and a clarity um that they didn't feel they had so i'm very curious about these compounds. Um the data can tucky we should check this but um I believe it's taken money from the a opp o ID crisis settlement for I begin research this is like no longer yeah if you look here, let's see um did they do IT oh no, no, oh no.

They back away can talk back away the plan to fund opp o treatment research.

They were going to use the money to treat opp o of now officials are backing off fifty billion, what is on its way over the coming years, fifty billion dollars.

fifty billion dollars is on the way to state in local government over the coming years. The pool of funding comes from multiple legal statements with aromatic companies are profit from manufacturer or sign painkillers .

can tucky system of the highest number of deaths from the opposite that they were going to do psychiatric research with. I begin supporting research on illegal, illegal folks. Psychedelic c called evident. Well, I guess they back away from IT early. We will get some happy news up on the internet.

I talk about .

the .

shark.

do you? On what that multiple times because I was going to put on the internet, are you OK if you're like alive and then I was going just like put IT to twitter, just like he's alive. But then of course, you are far to class you for that. So you just came back alive.

Well, jungle are not one. One of the lessons is also know when when you hear the call for adventure. Just I can do IT.

I was going to ask you kind of silly question, but like, give me a small fraction .

things on your bucket list buckets. Yeah, good to mars.

Yeah what what's the data so that .

I don't know. I'm being patient about the whole thing.

Red planet ran that cartoon of guys was pretty when where gog's is already up there yeah it's it's a funny one.

Probably also true. I would love, I would love the diamonds. I just love humanity reaching onto the stars and doing this a bold adventure and taking big risks and expLoring a love exploration.

What about seeing different animal species? I'm a huge fan of this guy geo satory um where he has this photo ark project which takes portraits of all these different animals. People aren't following money and he's doing some really important work.

This guys instagram is amazing portraits. Well, look at IT at these portraits, the amount of the personality because we don't want to project anything on to them but yeah, they met like the eyes and occasion and put moving at I delighted things like this. I've got some content coming on animals and animal neuroscience and eyes .

and dogs or kind all animals.

And i'm very interested in um kids content that that incorporates animals and like I look like that people think about that is kind of like flicking little annoying and disease Carrying things but look out beautiful that little sucker is how's .

your podcast with a few months are going?

Oh yeah within discussions with a cookie the um is a can think too much about that but um cookie monster embodies dopy, right? Cookie monster want cookie is cookie right now. You know like IT was IT was that one tweet? Cookie monster eye bounce because cookie is coming more directions.

You it's like it's just the embodied desire for for something and which is an incredible aspect of ourselves. The other one is, remember a while ago, elmo put out a tweet, hey, how's everyone doing out there? And he went viral. And you know, the surgeon general, the united states had been time at the loneliness crisis. He came on the podcast and a lot of people were were talking about problems with loneliness, mental health issues with loneliness. Elmo puts out a tweet, hey, how's everyone doing out there? And everyone gravitates told, you know, so that the different systems, street character is really in body, the different that kind of aspects himself through very like narrow neural circuit perspective um yes novel ouf IT is a shy and um Oscar the grow grow ch right in the count one or two the archetypes .

of yeah the architect is very Young right .

again yeah and I think that know the creators of systems clearly either understand that or it's an unconscious genius to that. So yeah, there are some things growing on a conversation to a systematic characters. It's not I know you'd like to talk about atomy or two, and i'd like to talk to cookie monster.

IT illustrates the differences in are like optimistic or something but that strates a lot yeah right. But yeah, I also I love animation, so i'm not in me. That's not my thing, but animation.

I'm very interested in the use of animation to get a science content across. So there are a bunch of things brewing but but that anyway I delight in start tories work and and and there's a conservation aspect to IT as well. But I think that um mostly one thank you for finally putting up something that like we're something is not being killed. There are like some sad, sad outcome.

These are all really positive.

They're really, really cool. And everyone, so well, look at, look at that mountain line. But I also like to look at these, and some of them remind me of certain people, right?

So let this just grow through. Like, for instance, I think when we don't train, process is too much. So like, like, okay, so look at the cat, the civic cat. amazing. Like, I feel like that somebody I feel like this is like a, like someone I met once, a curiosity, curiosity and a carnivore front ized eyes found .

in action.

right? So you go down. It's like this beautiful fish pink right?

Reminds you of some of the like .

that the influences you see on instagram, right? Except this one's natural. Just kidding.

Uh, um let's see. No filter. Um no ster, yeah, is you? Like, I feel like bears.

I'm a big fan of bears.

Yeah, bears are beautiful, this one kind reminding me you. But there's like a stock nature to a curiosity so you can go to a feel like the essence of animals. You don't even have to do syria oxes to get there.

I look at that he's like to behind the scenes of .

and then there's.

Yeah, in the jungle, the diversity of life was also stark from a scientific prospect. The fact that most of those species are not identified was fascinated. I was like, a little, every little, every little insect is a kind of discovery.

right? I mean, when the reason I love new york city so much despite its problems at times, is that um everywhere you look there's life is like a tropical ref. If you ve ever done school driving or north ling, you look on a tropical ref and it's like there's someone crab working on something.

And like everywhere you look, there's life. You know the bay area of you go school by diving or north ling is like a cult bed. You know the bear is like a cult bed.

Everyone's else, some big fish goes by. It's like a big IPO. But like most of the time, not a whole lot happened.

Actually the barry is interesting as i've been going back there more and more recently um there are really cool little subculture starting to pop up again. nice. There is an incredible escape warning. The G, X, one thousand guys, are these guys that the bomb down hills, the nuts like, they're just going like that.

Just speed, not tricks.

Just see G X one thousand, these guys going down hills and go. They are wild and occasionally unfortunate, occasionally don't get hit by car. But he G X one thousand look into intersection.

They have spotters. You can see someone there. I see there's the traffic and into traffic yeah this is crazy like this is unbelieved and um and there they're just wild but in any case.

what's on your bucket list even done when working on a book?

So i'm actually going to head to a cabin for a couple of weeks and right, what i've never done people talk about doing this, but i'm going to do that. I'm excited for that. Just the mental space of really .

dropping in the riding like .

jack the shining and oh you know before I can only started doing public facing anything for posting on this in twenty I used to head up to wola on the northern coastal california um sometimes around myself um to a little low cabin there and spend a weekend by myself and read and write papers and things like I still time I I missed that so some of that um i'm trying to spend a bit more time with my relatives in argentina, relatives in on the east coast see my parents more. They are in good health. Thankfully I want to get married in a family that's an important priority and put a lot of lot of work in there.

Yes, it's a big one. Yeah yeah.

Put a lot work um into the the runway on that. What your advice for people .

about that or give advice yourself about how to find love this world, how to find how to build the family.

get there and and then all listen to IT someday if I hit the mark yeah well obviously pick the right partner, but also like do the work on yourself no no yourself, the world, no self and I think, um listen, I have a friend he's a new friend. But he's a friend and who I met for A A meal he's a very, very well known actor overseas and his stuff has made IT over here and we become friends and we went to launch.

And we are tired about work and being public facing and all this kind of thing. And and then a city of kids writing as four kids and I see your post with the kids, you seem really happy, said he just looked at me, lean in and he said, it's the best gift you'll ever give yourself and he also said, and pick your partner, the mother of your kids, very carefully. So, you know, that's good advice coming from excelling device, coming from somebody who's you very successful in work and family, so that the only thing I can pass along, we hear this from friends far as well but kids are amazing and family amazing.

Um you know that the different people all these people wanted like be a mortal and I live to be two hundred or something. There's also the the old fashioned way of you know having children that live on and involve a new legacy, but they have no half your DNA. So that's exciting. Yeah.

I think you are make amazing dad. Thank you. IT seems like a fun.

And yeah i've also gone advice friends who uh super hyper forming and have a lot of kids. I'll say, just don't overthink IT right? Start having kids.

Let's go right. Will the k ost? Kids is kind of the like? You can either bury you or can or can give you energy. But I grew up in a big pack of boys always doing like a wild and crazy things. And so that kind of energy is great.

And and if it's not a big pack of wild ys, you know, daughters and they can be, you know, different former chaos, sometimes same form of chaos. How many kids you think you are? You know IT is two or five .

ah very different .

dynamics. You're one of two. I am very close to my sister. I couldn't imagine having another student because IT there's so much rich as there we talk most every day, sorry that we have three, four times a week.

You know, I was sometimes just briefly, but we're tight and really look out for one another. She's amazing person, like truly an amazing person and is like raised her daughter and amazing way. She's like, you know, my niece is like, had to college in the year two and like my such amazing job and her dad done a great job to that. They both really put a lot in the um the family aspect and I just .

to spend time with a really amazing person in the prove and the are jungle and he is one of twenty tickets so got it's mostly guys it's just a lot of brothers and I think two sisters just said JoNathan .

height on the podcast that goes to the anxious generation causing in the american and he is great but he was saying that no, in order keep kids healthy, they need to not be on social media or have spare phones until there teen, I thought you've been thinking a lot about getting a bunch of friends on to neighbors properties and never talks about this, not creating a community, anything like that. But I think, I think Johnson's right, we were more or less our brain wiring does best when we raised in small village type environments where kids can forage the free range kids idea, when I grew up escape warning in building fords and dirt cloud wars and all that stuff. Um IT would be so strange to have a childhood without that.

yeah. And I think more more as we wake up to the negative aspects of digital interaction will put more, more value to, in personal reaction.

So made IT cool to see, for instance, kids in new york city just come moving around the city with so much sense of agencies. Really, really cool. The suburbs, like where I grew up, like, as soon as we could get out, take the seven half bus of seven, just go and hanging out with you.

Wild es, like, you know, while there were dangerous, I mean we can wait to get out the suburbs the moment that you know forts and dirt crowd wars and stuff did didn't cut IT. We just like wanted into the city so bucket list, I will probably move to a major city, not lost Angeles. Is this go um in the next few years, new york city potentially there's all such different flavors of experiencing yeah so I i'd love to live in university for a while.

I always wanted do that and and I will do that. I've always wanted to also have a place in a very rural so area. So colorado, montana are are high on my list right now.

And to be able to tip IT back and forth between the two would be great. Just first of different experiences, I and i'll I like a very physical life of the idea of getting up in the sun with the sun in the montana, colorado type environment. And and i've been doing some putting some effort towards finding a spot um for that in new york city to me.

I know it's got this issues and people say he wasn't what IT was. Okay, I get IT, but listen, i've never lived. There's self from you be entirely new and um you know show all seems full of life. There is an energy .

to that city and he represents that I mean there and ended the full diversity of weird that is represented in new york. Day's grade.

walked on the treaters like your person, like a cat on their head on the ship. Still go used to be like that. The joke was like, you have to be naked and on fire. And serra, sal, before seven days, but now it's change. But again, I recently i've knows that there is go not just about the escape waters, there is some community houses of people in tech that are super interesting.

There are some community housing people not in tech um that i've learned about him and known people have lived there and in its it's cool like their stuff happening um in these cities that's new and different. I mean, that's what youth is for. There's supposed to evolve, evolve things out.

So I miss all there. You still have to get shit done. Have been really obsessed with tracked in time recently like making sure I have daily activities of habits that are maintaining a very religious about making sure I get shit done, use an up or something I done or just google sheet. So basically specially i'm tracking daily and I write groups that that whenever I I achieve a good gloves Green.

yeah, do you track your workout and all that kind of enough to?

No, just the fact that I ve got to work out done yeah. So I just, it's a checked k thing. So really, really big.

I'm making sure I do the thing IT doesn't matter how long IT is. So I have a rule for myself that I do a set of tasks for at least five minutes every day. And IT turns out that many of them I do way longer. But just even just doing IT, I have to do IT everyday in this currently eleven of them is just a thing like one of them is playing gear, for example. So you do that kind of stuff do you do um like daily habits?

Yeah I do my um I wake up if I don't feel slept enough. I do this non sleepy press, the organizer thing that I talked about a bunch. We actually released a few of those tracks as audio tracks on spotify.

Ten minute, twenty minute, once puts me back into a state that feels like sleep, and I feel very rested, actually met walk, and I are going to run a study. He just admitted the irb to run a study on N. S.

D. R. And what is actually doing to the brain. There's some evidence of increases and do the minutes that are. But those are older studies, still good studies? So i'll do that, get up, hydrate.

And if i've got my act together, I punched some cafe down, like some Martino and coffee, maybe another Martino and resistance train three days a week, run three days a week. We can then take one day off and like to be done by thirty nine. And then I want to get into some real work.

I actually have a sticky note on my computer like, just like reminding me how good IT feels to accomplish some real work. And then I go into IT right now. It's the book writing, researching a part test and just fight youth and now to stay off social media text message, what's up youtube all that um get something done.

How long can you go? Can you go like three hours? Just deep focus .

if I hit a groove, yeah nine minutes to three hours if i'm really in .

a grove um for me I start the day actually that's why i'm afraid I really prize that those morning hours I start with the work yeah and it's it's it's a i'm trying to hit the four hour mark of deep focus. great. I love IT then the off really often torture difficult the agent.

But I I SAT across the table from you a couple years ago now, out here in Austin, doing some work and working on stuff you were. And I know you just like stir your new books sometimes, just like pen at the same position, and then you'll get back into IT, like through those on to building that hydraulic pressure and then go, yeah, I trying get something done of value. Then the communications start and talking to my podcast producer.

My team is everything I mean like the the magic potion in the podcast. Is rob more right? Um who's in the has been in the room with me every single solo costumes to be in there with us because that's IT people ask, journalists have asked and they said and friends of us, no, just rock.

And for guest interviews, he's there as well. And I talked to rob all the time, all the time. We talked multiple times per day.

And you know in life i've made some errors in certain relationship domains in my life in terms of partner choice and things like that. So I don't blame of that on them. You played my role.

But but in terms of picking business partners and friends like you know to work with them in rob, just it's been buzzed and it's just rob has been amazing. My playback car photographing the guys I mentioned really like we just communicate as much as we need to and we pour over every decision like near neuroticism before we make we put anything out there. And so you included .

like even created decisions of like topics to cover all that yeah good.

Like a photo for the books, jack at the other day, mike, shoot photos. And then we look at them, we pour over them together. Um logo for the performing podcast.

Any galin that were launching like is the right onto my real is got the aesthetic think because he was at dc so long as a porter for typing and his cute close friends with can block to jim corner like all the car jumping in the city stuff like, I mean, mike is a mahe, he's a true master of that stuff and and we just pull over every little decision but even which sponsors, you know, there dozens of ads. Now, by the way, that the old joza sizing of me thing, oh, guy went from a two to a seven. I never said that that's A A, I, I have would never caught the number of somebody or to do with seven.

Are you kidding me? crazy. So A, I, if you bought the thing, i'm sorry. But like our sponsors, we list the sponsors that we have. And why on our website, like the decision? Do we work with this person or not?

Do we still like the product and we waste with sponsors because of like changes in the product? Or you know most time of the ammick all good, but you know like just every detail and that just takes the tony time and energy. But I try work mostly on content, and my team is constantly trying to keep me out of the other discussions. Um but I because I obsess but um yeah you you have to you have to have a team of some sort someone that you can run things. But sure one of .

the chAllenges the large of the team is, and i'd like to be involved, lot of different kinds of stuff, including general robotics, work, research, all of those interactions, at least for me, take away from the deep work, the deep focus. Unfortunately, I get drained by social interaction, even with the people I love and really respect and all that kind of stuff. Introvert yeah, like fundamental and introvert.

So to me, it's a trade off getting should done verses collaborating. And I have to choose wisely. Because without collaboration, without a great team, which i'm fortunate enough to be a part of, I wouldn get anything really done. But IT isn't individual contributor to get stuff done, like to do the hard work of researching, of programing, all that kind stuff. You need the hours of the work.

I used to spend a lot more time alone. That's all my bucket list. Spent a bit more time dropped in a work alone. I think social media, like causes our brain go the other direction. I try to answer some comments and then and then get back to work.

I'm really after go to the jungle, appreciate not using the device. I fly with the idea, like spending certain way, maybe like one week a month, not using social media at all.

I used this is so after that morning, block aletes lunch and usually do something, doing lunch something, and a bit more work, and that real work, deep work. And then round two thirty, I do non sleeve depressed. Take a short now, wake up maybe a little more caffeine, and then lean into IT again.

And then if you, I find if you really put in the deep work two or three bouts per day by about five or six P. M, it's over. I was down at joke's place not that long.

Go in the evening, did a sona session with him and some family members of his and some of their friends. And it's really cool like they'll work all day and train all day, and then in the evening they get together and they they saw on a cold plunge. I am really into this whole thing of of gathering with other people at a special time of day.

I have a gym in my house and you know, tim will come over in trainer, you know that we've kind of slow that down in recent months, but I think gathering in groups once a day, being alone for part of the day, it's like a very fundamental stuff. We're not to saying anything that said millions of times before. How often do people actually do that and and call the party you know like be the person to like bring people together if it's not happening.

That's something I really had to learn, even on an introvert. Like like gather people, gather you came through town the the other day, slow people the house and actually was waiting because I was getting a misstated when you walked in. I don't sit around, getting massage is very often but I was getting on that day and then everyone came in and the dog came in. I am tired and I was very sweet again.

no devices, but choose wisely. The people you gathered with right.

right? And I was close.

Thank you for clarifying. I wasn't, which is very weird. Yeah yeah the the friends is around years of that.

That's not thing, sig. I understood that from my working from just the experience and jungle was like to select the people. Just be careful how you ask your time. I just saw on somewhere kind of a greg has a good line I had down about loyalty. He said, don't eat with people.

You can start with that guys.

I mean, he's being on loyalty. All the SHE talk, all that said that aside to me, like loyalty, he's really big, is that if you invest in certain people in your life and you stick by you and you stick by them, what what else is life about?

yes. Well hard people show you who your real friends are not sure and um you know we're fortunate, have a lot of them. It'll also show you who you know who really like has put in the time to trying to understand you and and understand people like people are complicated though I love that. So once more .

don't eat with people you wouldn't start with yeah so in that way, a hardship is a gift. IT shows you definitely.

and IT makes you stronger. And IT definitely makes you stronger. Let's go get some food.

Yeah, you're one million day guy. Yeah, I actually ate something earlier, but I was like a protein shake. A couple piece is a bill time. I hope we're eating a stick.

I hope so, too, full of nickel. And caine, yeah.

what do you think I feel?

I feel good. Yeah, I was.

I was thinking, you probably like, I only did a half a piece, and I want to have more for a while, but a little too good. Yeah.

thank you for talking once again.

But yeah, thanks so much. Like, been a great ride. This podcasting.

And you're the reason I started the podcast. You inspired me to IT. You told me to do IT.

I did IT. And you have been an amazing friend. You showed up in some some very chAllenging times, and you shown up for me publicly.

You shown up for me in my, my home, in my life. And you know, an honor dav other friend, thank you. I love you, brother. Love you too.

Thanks for listening to this conversation with the Andrew huberman. To support this podcast, please check out our sponsors in the description, and now let me leave you some words and carl Young, until you make the unconscious conscious, you will direct your life and you will call IT fate.

Thank you for .

listening and hope to see you next time.