Schroders CEO: Navigating industry shifts, family ownership and embracing risk
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Hi everyone. Today we have the great pressure or having Peter Harris on the show. Peter is the CEO of shouters, one of the biggest asset managers in europe. And amazing shoos has been in business family to pull for a roughly two hundred years. Great to have here.

Thank you.

Is also quite fun because so this is one of the longest standing partners we have in the fund in the norwegian. Someone worth find um we have relationships going back to you .

know of to twenty five years vilely.

So what you know um only forty five out of one million companies exist for hundred years, and you've been doing IT for two hundred years. What's treat?

So I think the the key is committed ownership. We've got a family backing who takes a twenty of you of where we need to go because of that. The business has changed, evolved the family. We've been in lots of different businesses in the finance sector without that time, but we've continued to change. And I think that only possible if you've got a committed long term ownership structure.

which allows that change if we do the last ten years. What are the biggest change .

you've seen in the sive growth of passive management, huge growth towards drivers, a collapse of fees.

So just to for the for the private is like private equity. Passive is index funds.

absurdly private debt. And the the world is moving away from public companies towards private companies, A A revolution in governance, a huge agenda on climate, collapsing fees. So wholesales, the industry is going through a major disruption.

And why back there are lots of english companies in this industry, you know, really, really grand names doing very well tradition. And then the americans came and ate your lunch.

So look, I think the two things, the capital markets moves to america, that was the first thing. And they started with a huge domestic bias. But I didn't think the U.

K. Companies evolved. And part of what we've been in the business of doing is trying to change the business to where the fast loan water is today. There's very, very different markets.

If you don't change your water, why?

Well, I think I think the size of domestic market makes IT me able to able to create scale. And this is a scale business. At the end day, you need to invest hugely impact in data.

And if you don't if you if you cannot shrink to grow. And I think too many companies sort we saw the disruption and they saw I we're gona string. We're going cut calls. We took the view we needed to invest to grow and it's IT was a different strategy. But it's I think the only way through IT in the americans in america, they tend to want to investigate.

but it's only the s of management is also of the banks to like the merging banks also.

right?

But are the americans working harder? Are they cleverer?

What is that? No, no, they're are not working harder. They not clever a but they do have some minutes advantages of scale to start with. They had more partnerships type structures, which I think is a very good structure in an asset management business because you're sharing a hundred percent of the pie with people in the business, rather a portion of pie. And I think we've also seen this very big change of the growth of private and in private markets, the bigger you are.

the bigger the mode. Are you sure they are working harder? So I heard a story which I actually think maybe true um when the americans came to to london, they had the widest margin and the most profitable day on a part of the week on friday morning, because the english guys had been out drinking on thursday night and so there was just widely spread s less keen competition and the american guys would just like in the friday morning bank .

hitting and walk around this building, this this places full so I can only speak for here. But but then we've been successful, but just not period.

What's been the most important things that traders have done lately?

We we've pivoted towards private. We've pivoted towards wealth. We spend a lot on technology. We spend a lot on sustainability and what that means, and i'm sure we should talk more about that.

But I for me, the ability to move and innovate and being being really tough on ourselves to change. And I think that, that requires cultural change and IT requires new capabilities. So so is required a lot of change during the last ten years.

Now um how does the kind of the decline of the U. K. Capital markets play in here?

So if you go back, go back fifteen years, the U. K. Has one of the largest pools of domestic savings in the world, and we regulated that out of existence.

So is basically all government bonds and and stop taking risk. And we put consumer protection at the center and that shrink the U. K.

As as an equity market considering saw huge outflows over the last fifteen years. And then we put in a corporate governance code, which said conflict between shareholders and companies is a good thing. And everything every league table was, the more times you you vote against management to the Better.

And those two things were unhelpful for listings. They were unhelpful for thriving domestic capp. Those are now changing and people are are going back towards more is taking they're going back to towards constructive environment.

But I so the listed market has struggled. I think what's happening at the same time as london is boomed with private markets, with hedge funds as a center for new people coming together, they've got some fantastic life sciences. The problem is, is being its foreign capital, which is driving those businesses, not domestic capital.

So the returns are not going to U. K. savers. And I think as a country.

that's a big problem, but is also probably the constituent entities of all the stock markets, right? So uh, the U. S.

Market has compounded at roughly twice the rate of eype of the last ten years is of course, due to a lot of you know much more companies in in the U. K. More mining oil. We've got the companies .

of one hundred years ago. They are not the companies that, that are driving the gross of the future. And I think creating an a listings environment where people want to creating an environment where where management want to be listed in london has been a big part of the change, which has been going on over the last few years. To say this, this is unacceptable. You cannot have your best company is going .

listing overseas. How important is the sales and .

board S A I, A flat between shareholders of management? And for me, the best businesses are grown by by great management, but good alignment with shareholders. And the more agency problems you get, the the more people don't aim at creating great businesses.

And I think that's that's being part of the U. K. problem.

What does braxy do this?

Well, breakfast was just IT undermined two things. IT undermined confidence in the U. K.

As a place to make long term decisions. And IT created two, three years of complete hiatus. And then you, after breaks that you had bis government, bis johns's government.

You had a whole set of chAllenges around list trusted budget and the guilt crisis. And all of a sudden, the U. K.

Is a serious counterpart in a place to invest. Started to decline. We started to see that correct. But, but the skills take .

a while to heal. Now, the effort to remote the pensions industry, to get Better world come for pension is how is that going? So could you've been part of some of big efforts change?

I think we've done a couple of things. We've changed all listing rules and changed a lot of the structural stuff. You're about to see a big that changes come through in the corporate governance environment and will return to comply.

Explain as a as a way of how do you know if a company doesn't follow the rules, do they get the opportunity, explain why they're doing IT differently. And I think that's that's gonna come through hopefully, and you're getting a freeing up of a lot of the capital, which is previously just put into risk animation we have in the U. K.

Three hundred billion in tax advantage, cash savings and virtual no financial advice. Everybody sits in cash rather than taking risk. And if you don't take risk, you don't and return.

And that's the uk's problem. We put consumer protection right at the center and killed risk. King.

is there a danger that in order to attract companies, you loosen up on the rules and regulations to the extent that IT becomes no willest?

Well, that's that's the argument that a lot of people will make. The other question is if you take the risk, you don't get a return. And so I think the answer is you you have a set of rules.

And if companies abide by those rules, they can listen the U. K. And then it's for active managers to choose which they want to own and which they don't anna earn.

And I think no, the U. K. Has always been good at active is taking. And I think you slightly careful that you don't set a set of rules which are so prohibitively that no one wants to be here. And that's where we were five years ago.

That change. Do we need a unified european? I could get market and will will we get IT that?

Why not? Too politically difficult is too much stress within the european experiment to see that, that convergence come together. I mean.

if if we had IT.

what would you do? Well, I think I think you create A A big enough single capital market that IT starts to be competitive against the U. S.

The great, the chAllenge of the last few years, the that we used to have london, new york and one of two other markets. Now there are probably fifteen chAllenges to be a global financial market. And europe needs to act， get this act together, an act its size.

But it's so fragmented and the so many, so many bits of arbitration. And if we just take we had a set of rules that came out called bmf fit, which was a sounds really geeky, but actually there was really, really spicious changes that took place in the way a lot of research was done. And but every country interact differently. And as a result of that, you got more fragmentation and you get ultimately optimization and the us. Will Carry on growing.

And so what if IT was an effort to get uh, the clients to pay separately for research.

but that was one part of IT IT also was hundreds of thousands of pages of reporting eec, which would be six and evolve somewhere. Have no idea whatever happens to .

from an asset management point of you. Are you happy with the .

government of a government, I think, picked up with the bottom of needing to change and understanding that growth is important, an understanding the environment for growth and an industrial strategy is important. So IT, that bit seems to be coming through, but it's very early days. The government is tough and it's really tough when there's no money in the UK, there is no money and that's going how do you baLance growth .

and higher taxes? You mention the private market or you know private equity and so on. How h what kind of role is I want to play for? Who save for retired.

I think you need to play much bigger role so well because a lot, a lot of the future is around how we find climate transition, how we find sensitive biology, how we find a public markets are not naturally good at a disruption and b funding change. So you're gonna that innovation come from private markets.

And if we don't, if we don't embrace that and we, we we hide in those companies of one hundred years ago, those new returns and that disruption will only be a cost to and say as rather than a benefit to. So I think this there is a big change required. I mean, public Marks are shrinking really quickly.

The number of companies that are delisting is down, what? Forty percent over twenty years. The stock in trade of a traditional public markets investor, your clients, our clients is shrinking. The availability of alpha is drinking the ability to out before market. So for me, those those are those are really big issues that as the frog quietly boils in the pan, don't get talked about enough. And I think one of the big changes we're going to see this is wealth markets, which don't traditionally have big exposure to private markets, are gonna move much more into private. The bigger family.

family, I mean, you cater for private to you also get for wealth management, right? yes. So this is a relatively new thing for you.

Yeah in the last we've done worth magic for many years. We've made IT a lot bigger over last ten years, and we've double the size of the company. And that's mainly been through growing our privates business and growing our wealth business.

A I I was I going to change the way you do things.

things well, I think IT fundamentally changes the landscape of the companies we invest in. In the very short term, we will spend a lot of time trying to do things Better, and they probably far more quickly than we realize. We will find we do things very, very, very differently.

And the moment we're all thinking about the Better bit. But actually the real change will come from what we do IT differently. So I think the first place will see a major changes in wealth, because my sense is that people will turn to their beautiful AI assistant, who will who will know them Better than anybody, and asked them for wealth advice in a way that they currently ask people.

And I I don't believe our portfolio in different from any other industry. If we if A I is helping understand the human genome backwards, the market or bian backwards, they can certainly help. You may become a Better investor. I think it's beholding to on us to make sure those tools on that data is in front of our portfolio of managers when they make decisions.

Moving on to investment philosophy. Is there a soda way of running money?

No, there is a shouders set of philosopher about how you create great teams and how you take risk. But our philosophy is you create individual markets, different, different treats of investing in. You need a different approach.

But you almost certainly will have a reactivity small team with great tools. You will be LED by by brilliant people. You will grow people internally rather than try hard.

So now, now you are on how to .

be good team to good teams.

So how do you be good?

所以 firstly， you you need brilliant leaders of those teams. You need to give them great tools. They need to be the right size.

They need to be near their local markets. And you need to give space to get things wrong because great investors don't get IT right every single day. Then they might be wrong for three, four years a time. And you've GTA be willing to put your arms around them and support them. But the critical thing is you understand the risk take and their good risk takers, and you and you got your head around who is managing their way through that in the past, dependency of returns.

So we are university with some some of your best teams, right? What would you say they have? Haven't common?

What do great teams have in common? Huge consistency of people, openness to external thinking. They look out. They don't look in on their great risk takers.

What, what? What is a great risk takers?

They understand, understand the risk of all equations, and they understand when they change. And they understand why they have been wrong in a way that is, you can be wrong in china because state and enterprises are doing something because some government stimulus, or you can be wrong because you've just pick the wrong company. You ve got a the company you have, the mode has disappeared and you end up cleaning on IT for too long.

If you you need to understand the Price action and how the businesses changing and be willing to change and and some people get stuck, others move and it's the ones that move and able to adopt and hold on to a consistent. And so so often, you see people waivers. And if you see people waivers, the chances are they won't be able to navigate through long time change.

One of them one of the process comes of not having one way running capital because um fidelity, I guess, got a one way running, you know ital uh the capital has .

got running ital ever give a lot of covered why they aggregated up, but I think the for me it's the accountability. So you've got that ability to look at the team and say oil Price forecast doesn't come from one central person who and then put IT into the whole system and when he goes wrong, blows out the whole system. So IT creates a business resilience that is stronger.

But I think that accountability of a team who is job IT is and they can see everyone in the team. They all know who's accountable for world. When you trying to do that in the organization scale, it's really hard to hold that accountability and alignment for long pairs of time basically through change.

And what you tend to see is those companies that have a whole organization investment process can go through long downland spiracles because the organization starts to question so raise on death. And I think in a world where we need to be very adaptive, the ability to have small teams adapting is a lot stronger. Now you're gotta give them great tools. You got ta give them great data.

What what are great tools?

Well, so for me, when I first just inner 是 thirty five years ago， our competitive advantage was being able to key in ten years of reporting accounts into spreadsheet to build a two year runnings .

model right now today that .

takes about two seconds to do that. But there is a huge amount of on structure data out there telling us what's going on in businesses, what companies are really doing, what the supply chains look like that, that on structure data takes a lot of getting and processing and bringing out those, those and sorts of things.

I mean, by great tls, the joko is harvest, the bloomberg has something like a hundred thousand functions and a great portfolio o manager might use thirty of them. And that's not that's not the right. How do you get the right information in front of your investors so they make .

great decisions? How do you train people?

You grow them? I think I think we're in a prints ship business and that requires A A lot of metal ship. IT requires a great recruitment process at the beginning, and IT requires the ability to move people through a system and gradually give them accountability.

So I I joined as a graduate training. You'd spend time. Yes, I spent a long time as an engineering and less than I could go on to do another industry.

And bit by bit, you learn your craft. I not a great believer that we are good at bringing rocks styles from the outside through our businesses that do that incredibly well. Yeah, the city s and millennium do that. That's not us.

Let's go to your leadership. But what's been the main management lessons for you as you have moved from being in invested to becoming the C.

E O? It's tough. The best job in our industry is being an investor. So so that's the first habit. And you have this this crisis moment where you don't turn on your bloomberg in the morning, you turn on your.

you turn on your e mail when you .

are good investor, not good enough and IT was the realization I wasn't good enough. Is that the piece of principle you rise to your level of incompetence? So so so the the first thing was getting over being an investor and not trying to drive from the back seat. The second was understanding what of a leader I was because you don't really know that when you start on the .

management journey well.

have discovered that i'm a connecting with the organization and trying to drive the hearts of the organization as much as the minds the organization has been, ended up the style that i've done. I am passionate about innovation. I spend my time, my way, the university writing code.

So i'm a bit of a geek. So for me, that getting the innovation, being really consistent about your strategic vision, just being resilient and not be banned, of course, but making sure you take the organ sation with you because the problem in the most businesses is the huge layers of permafrost st. That don't think change has got anything to do with them. And how do you bring those people through and create those new people?

How do you melt permafrost?

I think culture change. Is that so great, great teams, right, is a difference between betwen, a good company and a great company. And great leaders within those teams will will drive that change. But you need to shine daylight into dark corners. Is the best is infected.

And how do you do that?

Well, part of IT is crazy and open, honest environment. So yet with to say we make an era on a plant account, right? There's two ways, two ways of response that first is the obvious way which he has had to learn from IT in the second way is finger pointing and all arrest of IT.

If you create the environment, which says we want to learn from this, people start. Most people want to come to work to learn. And I think you've gotto create that learning environment and that trusting environment. And when you do that, we're not a particularly big company for six thousand people. We we can .

be trust.

We are seven hundred, you .

know, have you been .

bowled enough? So I if I look back, was the thing I wish i'd done more of, always be more bold.

And in what waste should you have more?

So we should have done more private markets earlier because compounding up, we should have probably be more willing to acquire more teams and are not as much organically. And I think I looked at the things you have a quite, quite lot, have a quite, quite lot, but we are quite small because I didn't want to destroy the culture. yeah.

And so for me, because the chAllenge, I think is public market culture. Private market culture are really different. And can you get them to coexist in the same organisation? The successfully is is hard.

And that was the thing which you have seen here in many companies. I sight said we going to want to work really hard at this, but we going to go slowly. With hindsight, the disruption in our industry has been way quicker than anyone thought.

Well, one of things you bought was a part of a casino, which is where I started I started my my career in two well you voted in two thousand and thirteen and part of IT uh and that's where I started to rayed after school. So um and that's pretty well.

right it's it's so far it's groing. It's probably the first is growing wealth business in the U. K. It's it's got and it's got all the characteristic is got strong culture, is got great investment performance. And IT cares deeply about its plants. And if if you have those three things, actually, businesses will Carry on performing for very long pairs of time.

You still have the queen as clients.

I couldn't possibly .

comment uh in in the show petal time you will um pause um you know the button to Richard old field. Do you think I be difficile very old?

why? Well, I look like i've been in this industry thirty five years. I started here, was a graduate training made, have gone elsewhere. But I I will miss this is a very special company, and I will miss IT massively. And you feel a great sense of intendance to be as a privilege to run a company that you start start your career.

Now if I were to um play deva, vocative tata, so um whilst being the CEO as management to grow a lot, right more than one hundred percent. But uh fees generally come down, right? Uh because is more well, there is generally pressure on fees. Costs gone up, profits down and the market capitalization is is down compared to when you started. Just how do you look at these ferrous things?

So we cross so we started with a traditional like business, which has gone through huge disruption and and everybody had a tradition business ten years ago who has seen a huge change. And many of those houses are nine percent or of actually didn't exist anymore. So so what we've done is invested heavily in those new businesses and we're crossing a valley.

So as as the traditional businesses come under pressure, we've growing those new things. And as you see in our results, th Epace o f g rowth o f t hose n ew t hings n ow o utstrips t he d ecline i n t he a irbus. And so as we cross the valley that the compound math does your work for you, but IT takes IT takes a long time, and we were never gonna able to tear up the the really strong foundation that we had in tradition is that would be wrong to so we for me, that he was gonna be a long transition.

We took the view that, that was the right way to make the transition. Um but I if I look at us against our peers, I think we've done you I really strong job. But I totally take the point that the other day, shareholders want lights Better. I just realized I was .

a pretty stupid question. One of the queen was the line. I suspect IT isn't.

Well, I didn't want to put you right on that, but I they can change the real family. But one one of the highlights of my of my time coming to open our building and shopping around .

and ate went.

Moving on to culture. So families still on forty four percent and you said that was a key to surviving for two hundred years. Um just what are the disadvantages of having family owner ship could so no.

I think that the key is that creates a huge capital discipline. But IT also has a case a blockage in a way because you don't naturally want to dilution per say is a lot, lot harder to do mentally if if you're a family that that held on to I saw shares and issue today of virtues, same as they were one thousand, nine hundred and fifty nine. So that's the only negative.

Everything else is a positive. But but you you see that ability. So bruno, show to SAT round our board on table for sixty years. And he said to me pretty well, every meeting get IT right on the twenty of you.

Now you still have two family members on the lord. Yes, but if we hadn't have .

had that license to change, I don't think I would have had the license to start the transition tion and the inflation that we've done. Because if we had to transform otherwise, we have been one of those businesses that was really struggling and not investing to grow.

Are you one hundred was and confident that is right to be independent?

Yeah I am actually I mean, it's it's look, this industry where the scale is getting more and more important. So our biggest competition, blackstone black rock, i've got usually bigger in this period. But if you want to be an active alpha manager, scale is not everything. Doing a good job for your clients is Frankly the most .

important thing because interrogation, you know, you added actually, uh, yes, I think I think IT is actually actually is a quality fire. And he means that you are only not a hundred percent no of the things that make you less sure about this.

Well, I see the industry is going through. Everybody's talking about who they merged, where in all the west. So so IT is a very active debate in our industry today as to how people gonna get to scale.

But it's so the most common thing is people merging and everyone's up for sale. Our view has been that you can you can navigate that by investing for growth, growing these new businesses and seeing away through i'm really aware that the controversial statement, most people disagree with that. So I think I think you do have to qualify IT. But for us, can we can achieve that because of the family background.

And we would make sense to merge some the U.

K. players. If you are some of the smaller players, you probably do need to merge us our way because if you're a fifty, seventy, eighty hundred hundred billion business, you're not viable. You can invest in the signs.

You can't invest in the seven hundred and seventy.

You think you're enough. What's different about all seven hundred and seventy is that it's all active and it's all private and it's all wealth. It's all high y earning. Um rich business has not got a big chunk capacity in that. So I I think that it's a it's a much rich mix of businesses than some of the businesses which look bigger than us but think they are all passive.

Moving on to sustainability and esg. What do you make of the recent swing in appetite for years too?

Well, first thing that is been politicized, so that so you seen as huge geographic diversion and you, you, you absolutely a past peak debate. I mean, so a lot of people don't want to talk about IT now and you've seen IT, but I think in boardrooms and people's awareness, the importance of climate, I don't think that's debated at all. So what companies are getting on, on doing is very real as just people's end a lot less time talking about IT.

So how do you think you will develop going forward?

So and the first thing is, is gone from handwaving to data. And and in our industry, there is a Price to pursuing sustainability. So we have to understand that if we want to be good at this and we are were in top three of of doing IT that comes of the ticket.

So a lot of people, we don't want to pay that Price. The second, I think, is that we will get more and more regulation, a more more fragmentation of regulation around the world. And that is a pain in an industry which is about global scale.

So you different interpretations in japan, korea to china exit, which all difficult. But I if you go in a different way, companies report gap profits, right? But different companies put a different cost on the external environment.

So if you're tobaco maker, you create cancer. If you're company, you create carbon emissions. If you are a soft drinks making, you create the betes weave three to all, those get profits as the same. There is not the same. But the after the impact, adjusted profits of businesses are really very different.

And I think society will increasingly look at our businesses and say if you don't make profits the same way, we need to think about investment in a different way because the real impact of justice profits of the in portfolio differs. And as IT managers sit there between as IT owners like yourself and as IT creators and companies. And I think it's our job to shine a light on what's the cost of delivering that perform. And if we can't shine that light, we're fAiling in our duty.

You are the fifth largest foreign player in the chinese market. How do you see that going forward?

So china's going through a major correction post property crisis, you seen huge growth in cash deposits in banks as the wealth effects of the destruction is is coming through. But you're also seeing a huge a massive energy transition going on in china. And I I think you will see a return to retaking at some point.

I mean, the chinese had a huge benefit of moving people from the countryside, cities, and that's given them a productivity boost. That productivity boost isn't enough to Carry on in the future. They need financial productivity.

And to to achieve financial productivity, they probably need external players to help show them what good financial positivity looks like and A A strong position that but running wealth fund management, fun management assets, private equity assets, I think this is really additive for our future growth. But today is losing his money. And one of the best i've made that hasn't been right has been the scale that bit. But if you take a twenty of you, be delighted with IT.

if you but but, but in in a world with increased geopolitical frictions between the us. And china, princess, one of the dilema, or being a large player in china, well.

is really interest. Most U. S. Players have stop talking about their chinese investments in in their public statements, but they haven't pulled back from their activities on the ground because this, one of the largest savings markets in the world, is a huge, is second only to the us.

Have you stop talking about IT?

No, of very about IT.

Because in stolen burg, the who recently stepped down as a sexual general of nato, you know he talks more vocally about um thinking about defense and security rather than just doing business and profits. I think prior changed.

but I think the the reality of our business, we will be a taker of the geopolitical. We have to be sensitive to IT, and governments will take take whatever defence defensive decisions they want to make. I I personally think that there is a huge opportunity for savings growth in china, and we should, as a west, want to be engaging with that.

We want to engage with them on Green transition. We to engage with them on corporate governance, just as we do anywhere else in the world. And we should be if we don't, if we.

We got two choices as a society, we either what part on the other side of the road, and that is all too difficult. It's horble. We we cross and help. And I think being part of the solution has always been, to my mind, the right wedding is is sometimes about braver and harder. But I think we don't engage.

We're onna get what we deserve. How does india look? Do you looks .

great at the moment, but that be quite clear, right? Go back ten years ago, china was booming in india was nothing anybody wanted. And now at the other way round, and i'm ten years time, I will move again. But the growth of middle class, the the innovation that's going on in india is a phenomenon in our industry is a super tough one to we've got we got Price control from the regulator, great savings. But in aggregate, we cannot own one hundred percent of of an indian business, which is a chAllenge but with a big position in china, were also number seven in india and .

the rest of asia. How do you see that? I think you got a look country by country.

I mean, from them overall, this is clearly growing very strongly. But I think that the most interesting one is the cultural governance change going on in japan that, that is a sleeping giant of the domestic savings CoOperate. You've never really got the message a bit by bit that this is changing and that.

Talking about excitement, what do you .

read a lot? One, one of the greatest is i'm a judge of the F T. Book of the year. So I read, I read books about about business. So i'm my, and anything wishes about society today for me so so the brilliant book, just out the longest imperative that says we've we're getting ourselves thinking about longevity, complete the wrong way, join hates book about the the impact of mobile technology on children and ravenous about about food systems being broken around the world. Those are the really big issues.

I think we will give more .

title supremacy on A I amy amazon in year, which was was brilli. And I think there's so much great I mean, there's so many brilliant books being with I just enough .

enough time to read more um yeah we do review a lot of them on on linton so please uh um check IT out there who's been important in your life in terms of mentally.

I think metals are are really valuable. And I ve got several one one particular to took me me out night. He said, can do and I am not i'm going to an executive thing said, let me tell you something your no spring chicken, you shouldn't be thinking about being executive in you ID sixties. Give IT up going to do something valuable and you you need people sometimes .

I would that be and so for you to do something more valuable now.

i'm going to spend six months doing all the things that I have never done before. And I am gone to go. I spend a lot more time fishing. I am going to spend a lot more time on the water, i'm going to spend a lot more time reading, and then i'm gna go to do some crazy things like growth lowers and go bird watching you name. I'm going .

to do all this .

like typical .

english .

active other stuff. And out of that, I hope to come up with what I should be doing afterwards, not going to stop doing things. But what I am clear about, i'm not going to do something.

Executive sounds like a really good plan. People lost. Ly, what is your advice for Young people?

So I think if I reflect back, do not assume that climbing the greasy pole is the root to being happy. So a lot of a lot of people look at the social structures and say I want to be more senior organization. Um if I I think they're got to engage, I think a lot of them don't engage, and I think a lot of them need to look outside of the algorithms that they are victims of and they get fed the same stuff on that people stay in a very narrow pipe.

And I think how do how do we how do we am is a mental ship. How do we have break that cycle of saying there's one view of society because I think people need to think very differently about who they really are on what they really want out of life. And I, rather than just saying it's a question.

will be a big thanks for being here today and a big thanks to you and sure this for the partnership we've had for twenty five years and .

the money you made. Thank you very much.