Dr. Andy Galpin: How to Build Strength, Muscle Size & Endurance
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Welcome to the huberman lab podcast, where we discuss science and science space tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew huberman and i'm a professor of neurobiology opto ology at stanford school of medicine today. My guest is doctor andy galpin.

Doctor galpin is a full intended professor in the department of kane's ology at california state university in fulton. He is also a world expert in all things exercise science and canadian logy. Today you are going to hear what is essentially a master class in how to build fitness, no matter what level of fitness you happen to have.

He talks about how to build endurance and the multiple types of endurance. He talks about how to build strength and hyperdrive phy, which is the growth of muscle fibers. So if you're seeking to get stronger or build bigger muscles or building durance, where all of those things today, you're going to learn how you're also going to learn how to build flexibility, how to hydrate properly for exercise, and will also talk about nutrition and supplementation.

What makes doctor gropin so unique is his ability to spend all levels of exercise science. He has the ability to clearly communicate the sets and repetition schemes that one would want to follow for incense, to build more strengths or to build larger muscles. He also clearly describes exactly how to train, if you want to build more endurance or enhanced cardiovascular function. What's highly unique about doctor galpin and the information he teaches in the way he communicates that information is that he can take specific recommendations of how recreational exercises, or even professional athletes ought to train for their specific goals and link that to specific mechanisms, that is, the specific changes that need to occur in the nervous system and in muscle fibers, and indeed write down to the genetics of individual cells in your brain body in order for those exercise adaptations to occur. It's truly rare to find somebody that can spend so many different levels of analysis and who is able to communicate all those levels of understanding in in such a clear and actionable way.

Indeed, doctor galpin is one of just a handful of people to which I and many others look when they want to make sure that the information that they're getting about exercise is clean from quality by reviewed studies, hands on experience with a wide variety of research subjects, meaning everyday people all the way up to professional athletes in a wide variety of sports. So it's no surprise that he's not only one of the most knowledgeable, but also the most trusted voices in exercise science. Doctor carbon is also an avid communicator of zero cost to consumer information about exercise science.

You can find him on instagram at a doctor, andy galpin, and also on twitter at doctor andy galpin, both places. He provides horrific information about recent studies, both from his laboratory and from other laboratories. More in dept.

Protocols of the sort that you're hear about today. So if you're not already follow him, be sure to do so. He provides only the best information.

He's extremely nuances and precise and clear and delivering that formation. I'm certain that by the end of today's conversation, you'll come away with a tremens amount of new knowledge that you can devote your exercise pursuits. Before we begin, i'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and researchers at stanford.

IT is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero cost to consumer information about science and science related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, i'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is athletic Greens. Athletic Greens is in all in one of vitamin, mineral, probiotic drink. I've been taking athletic Greens since two thousand and twelve, so i'm delighted that their sponsor in the podcast, the reason I started taking athletic Greens and the reason I still take athletic Greens once or twice a day, is that IT helps me cover all of my basic nutritional need to makes up for any deficiencies that I might have. In addition, IT has pro biotics, which are vital for microbiology health.

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So again, if you want to try element, you can go to element, element t docomo slash human. Today's episode is also brought to us by waking up. Waking up is A A APP that includes hundreds of meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga eda sessions and n sdr non sleep depressed protocols.

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Again, that's waking up dot com slashed huberman to access a free thirty day trial. And now for my discussion with doctor andy galpin. Welcome, doctor. Professor andy got a long time coming. We have friends in common, but this is actually the first time we've SAT down face to this.

Yeah, i'm very excited.

Yeah, they're only a handful, meaning about three or four people who I trust enough in the exercise physiology space that when they speak, I not only listen, but I modify my protocols. And you are among those three or four people. So first, a that of gratitude.

Thank you. Uh, you've greatly shaped the protocols that I use and um I know there's far more for me and for others to learn. So your professor, you teach the university and you have a tremendous range of levels of exploration. Muscle biopsy, literally images down the microscope all the way to training professional athletes and everything in between. So you are truly in the end of one.

And just to start us off, I would love to have you share with us what you think most everybody, or even everybody should know about principles of strength training, principles of endurance training and principles of, let's call, hyperdrive phy power in the other sort categories of training. And this could be very top on tour. But what do you think everybody on planet earth should know about these categories of personal and athletic development?

That's a great first question. Holy K, I think started at this way. I tend to think about um there's about nine different adaptations you can get from exercise SE. Um fat loss is not one of those. IT is a by product, but that's not really what i'm getting.

Um and so we can to categorize everything like that and we're going to we can talk about or what are the concepts that you need to hit with an each one and then you could have infinite discussion of the different methodologies, right? And so the first thing the hit is the concept is actually fairly few, but the methods are many, right? People have said that in iterations throughout time.

Um so if you walk from the very beginning, the first one to think about is all just called skill. This is improving anything from, say, a golf swing to a squatting technique to running. This is a simply moving mechanically, how you want your body to move.

This is going to, globally, call that skill from there. We're going to get in to speed. So this is moving as fast responsible.

The next one is power. And power is a function of speed, but also a function of the next one, which is strength. So if you actually multiply strength by speed, you get power.

And the reason of making this distinction, by the way, is somebody these are very close. And i'm going in a specific order on purpose here. For example, power is, like I just said, as a function of speed and strength.

So if you improve speed, you've also likely improved power, but not necessarily I could have come from the forest direction either. So there's Carry over. So like a lot of things you would do for the development of strength.

And power um there are somewhat similar, but there's differences, right? So things you would do correctly for power would really not develop much strength and vice vera. So when we can get in all these details later, when you get past strength, then the next one, kind of downtown yis hyperdrive py, this is muscle size, right? Growing muscle masses.

One way to think about IT after I portrait y, you get into these categories of the next one is these are all globally in dance based issues. And the very first one is called muscular and dots. So this is your ability to do, how many push PS can you do in one minute? Know things like that, pass a muscular in turns.

You're now into more of an energetic and cardiovascular that takes even left the local muscle. And you're now ended the entire psychological system in its ability to produce and sustain work. And we can get IT to a bond different cities with an enduring but i'll just to keep IT really simple right now.

The very first one think about this as um I call this anna robic power, right? So this is your ability to produce a lot of work for, say, thirty seconds to maybe one minute kind of two minutes like that. The next one down that is more closely line will will call your view to max.

So this is your ability to kind of do the same thing, but more of the time domain of, say, three to twelve minutes. So this is gonna a maximum heart rate, but it's going be well past just max heart rate. Then after that, we have what like a long duration interns.

This is your ability to sustain work. The time domain doesn't matter terms of how fast you're going, it's how long can you sustain work. This is thirty plus minutes of no break like that.

So as just an high level overview, those are the different things you can target. Um and again, some of those cross over and some are actually a little bit contrary to the other ones. So pushing towards one is maybe going to sacrifice something else.

So as is an overall start, that's really what we're looking at. Within all of those though, they do have similar concepts in terms of there is a handful of things you have got to do to make all of those things work. And we could talk about as many those who you want, but one of them is functionally called progressive overload.

So which everyone you're trying to improve that if you want to continue to improve, you have to have some method of overload. And as you well know, you're talked about a lot adaptation physico logically happens as a by product of stress. So you have to push your system.

So if you continue to do to see the exact same workout over time, you Better not expect much improvement. You can keep mainland, but you're not going to be adding additional stress. So in general, you have to have some sort of progressive overload, and we can talk in detail about what that means for each category.

But this could come from adding more weights. This could become from adding more repetitions. IT could come from doing IT more often in a week.

IT could come from adding complexity to the movement. So going from, say, a part range motion to a full range motion or adding other variable. So there's a lot of different ways to progress, but you have to have some sort of movement forward. So if you have this kind of routine, you build monday, wednesday, saturday or something and you just do that infinitely, um you're not going to get very far. So that's, I guess, the most high level overview of all the things people can go after, and then we can go from whatever direction you want from there.

Love to do the deep dive on each one of these for several hours um but and imagine that over time, we probably will. I'd love to chat about a couple of these in a bit more depth. So in terms of defining what the progressive overload variables are yeah for these categories, maybe we could hit the um two most common combinations of these nine things, the first one being strength and hypertrophy.

And maybe we could lump power in there. Um maybe not you're you're the exercise of a strengthen hypercritical which at least bear some relationship. yes.

And then maybe separately, we could explore um sustained work and dance this thirty minutes or longer continuously because I think many people train in that regime and probably something like vio two max in a row because well because I know that a number of people now incorporate so called hit or high intense in ervan training, I think with the hopes of either shortening their workouts and and or um gaining some additional cardiovascular benefit. So if we can start with strength and hydro Y, I know many people want to be stronger. They want to grow larger muscles or at least maintain what they have. Yeah, so what are the progressive overload? Les, um that are most effective overtime for strength .

and hyperfine, yeah okay. So i'll actually go a little step back with every one of those categories I talked about. You have what we call your modifiable variables.

So this is a very short list of all the things you can modify the different variables within your work out that can be modified, that will change the outcome. Fancy waves saying if you do this differently, then you're gna get a different result. Um so modifiable variables um the very first one of those is called choice.

This is the exercise choice you select. Now one of um i'm going to go double back here. I'm kind of doing a little bit inception so follow me here as i'm going up a layer to come down a couple layers um I have these fundamental laws of strength medicine that that kind of like a little bit of a joke but progresses over those one of those laws.

Another one of those laws is your exercises themselves do not determine adaptations. So here's what I mean. If you're like I wanted a stronger, you can select the exercise that doesn't determine you getting strong if you don't do the exercise correctly.

I'm not referring the technique that of course matters. But if you don't execute in the right fashion, then you're not going to get that adaptation. So if you choose, I want to get stronger, i'm going to do a bench press well, if you do the wrong set range, the wrong repetition range, the wrong speed, you won't get strength.

You maybe get musing and dance and very little strength that. So the exercise selection itself is important, but he does not determine the outcome adaptation. So the very first thing you need to think about if feel like I want to get stronger or at muscle, is not the exercise choice, right? IT is the application of the exercise.

One of the sets of the reps were the rest rangers. Are you're using that's gonna your primary determined? Now some exercises are certainly Better for some adaptations. For example, um a dead lift is probably not a great exercise to do for long duration endurance like you could theoretically do three treatments tes of dead lifting but it's probably not our best choice right is probably a pretty good choice for strength development, right because you going to do a little repetition, I set range. You could theoretically do buy up crus for power, but probably not your best choice.

I single join isolation movement is is not the best for developing power you ve ever done to buy some curls fast as you possible can like that's not gonna well. So in theory, any exercise can produce any adaptation given the execution is performed properly. So now that we've understood that a little, but the exercise itself does not determine the adaptation coming within each of these categories, exercise choice is an important variable because IT does lend you two things like what movement pat on your own.

So in other words, if if you want to get stronger and you're thinking, okay, what exercise do I do, you need to think think a little bit about what muscle groups do I want to use and that's going to be leading you towards the exercise choice. For example, I wanted use my quads more. Okay, fine.

Maybe you gona choose more of a front squat type of variation of gaba, Scott. So the bar, the loads in front of you, if you want to emphasize, maybe more your hand strings and glues you onna, maybe put a barber on your back or do a different one. So the exercise choice is important to the prescription because it's going to determine a lot of your success.

Another kind of simple way to think about this. If you are beginner or moderate, immediate or maybe don't have a coach, you probably want to head toward s and exercise selection that is a little bit easier technically. So you maybe don't want to do a barber background.

It's actually pretty complicated move. Maybe you want to do a little bit more of, again, a gobs squad or even use some machines or split squad, something that's a little bit simpler because you don't have a coat, you're not a professional athlete. The likely head of success is higher in the risk is now gone lower.

So the very first variable within all of these these exercise choice, the second one is the intensity. And that refers to, in this context, not perceived effort like, well, that was a really intense workout. IT is quite literally either a percentage of your one rapid max or a percent of your maximum heart rate or reveal to max.

So for the strength based things you want to think about, what's percentage the maxi way I could lift to one time and that's that's we're going to call one red max or as a percentage of my heart rate, right? So if I tell you to get on a bike, and I want to do inner walls, and I want you at seventy five percent, typically you refer ing to seventy five percent of your max heart rate. Reveal to max something like that. I tell you to do squats, seventy five percent. That means seventy five percent of the a maxim mount way you could .

lift one time or close uh a in terms determining one rep max I confess um i've never actually taken the one rep max for any exercise, but I have some internal sense of what that might be or yeah what range IT might be. Is that necessary for people to assess their one repetition maximum before going into the these sorts of programs?

No, not at all. I think a more actual way is to take a repetition range. You could do a couple different ways. So there are um equations you can run and you could just google these anywhere and these are called conversion shards.

And so IT says, okay, if I did seventy five pounds on my bench Price and I did at eight times, you can just run an estimate, say they okay, you're probably going to be able to adventure about ninety five pounds for one remains or something. So that's a very easy conversion chart. So just pick a low that you feel comfortable with.

But it's it's kind of heavy, but not. Like crazy heavy, and there was many repetitions that you can want a really good technique. And then look at that number would .

be so convery safer than doing IT one repetition maximum.

The the general public, who has again, no coaching, is safer for a professional that that is not any safer but or not even a professional that but a train person with the coach but for most people, yeah that's a good way to go about IT.

Um you can also just kind of do IT with feel in the sense that say you wanted do identity repetitions and you do the load and you think I can, I done one or two more and then then you can have an idea of of what that numbers going to be. Um if you think, man, at last one, I had a kind of really, really, really good after then maybe just call that that number right. Um so you don't have to get overly concerned.

In fact, when we start getting into these number ranges, you're going to see that they're all ranges are not going to give a specific ninety five percent for one of these exact reasons is not that precise. I'm for most of them. In fact, someone like I put we have enormous ranges that you'd like almost can't miss so that the intensity in that case doesn't even matter for the most part because that's not the primary determined.

Um some of these you're going to see intensity is to determine and some of these are going to see volume is the true determined. Um so intensity though is a second choice was the very first one uh, maniple variable intensity was the second one. The third one is we called volume.

And so this is just how many reps and how many sets are you doing so good to three at to ten, that volume would be thirty, right? Five, six to five, that volume is twenty five. It's just a simple equation. How much work you totally doing at the next one past that is called regenerable als.

So this is not a time you're taking in between typically asset um then from there you have progression much is what we started to talk about, this progressive over you increasing by weight or reps or reinvent or complexity or whatever. So all of those things um can be changed as a method of progression. And so maybe you want to go um progressive from a single joint exercise like a like extension on a machine, and you want to progress by moving to a whole building movement like a squad that in itself you don't have to change the load or the rips or the rest.

That is a representation of progressive overload. And it's probably a pretty good place to start because number one, especially for beginners, you want to make sure that the movement pattern is correct, don't worry about intensity, don't worry about rap ranges or any these things. You need to learn to move correctly and you need to give your body some time to develop some tissue tolerance so that you're not getting over overtly sore.

Um in general source is a terrible proxy for exercise quality is a really bad way to estimate whether there was a good, a bad work out, especially for people in that beginner to middle to moderate and actually the vat for our professional athletes. Um we do not use soaring ness as a metric of a good workout. Um it's it's a really bad idea for a bunch reasons.

On the same token, because stress is required for adaptation, you don't want to leave with the gym and feel like I don't really do much. There has to be there. So if you think about sonus on a scale, one to ten, you probably want to spend most of your time.

And like the three, you mean post exercise yeah in between workout totally. And I I know we will talk about recovery extensively later, but if one body partner set of body parts is sore, is that an indication that one should stay out of training? I would imagine the answer is no in most cases um and second, early to that, if a particular muscle store, does that mean that muscle is not ready to be trained again?

Yeah answer to both loses the same, which is no, right? You can certain ly trying to sore muscle. You needed, I guess, have a little bit to feel on that, right? So if if you're sort of like k, like you're moving around a little bit and like, man, this is a little bit or you can train if you're like, I can't sit on the couch without crying because my glitter so so her like we probably don't need to training again.

Wimberly .

counters crime yeah. In that particular case, I say you've actually gone the place of detriment because now you're going to have to skip a training session and now you're behind. So you're actual total way across the month and actually be lower because you when who way too hard in those workouts had to take too many days off from between, you're going to see that you're going to cover less distance of the course of month or six months or even a year. So you want to walk a pretty fine line. And for most people, I would say, hedge a little bit on the side of less sore than more sore because frequency is very, very important for almost all these adaptations of .

training frequency.

which is the last modified variable right frequency. This is how many times per week or you are you doing that thing. So those are um kind of are are global things we can play with.

So when i'm trying to manipulate and get strength versus ify or you know that I want like a little bit of both, all those variables are the things that are going through my mind. Which one do I need to move in which direction so that I can get this outcome and not this? Come over here.

For example, some folks might want to get stronger, but not put muscle mass on. Some folks are just kind of want both. And that's a lot of the year. People, I want to lose stronger and little bit more muscle. great.

But there are instances where people, for performance reasons or for purely personal preference, like I don't want to get any more muscle great, but I want to get stronger awesome. If you manipulate those variables correctly, you can get exactly that. Very little development of muscle le size and a lot of development and strengthen.

This is why we continue to break road records in sports like power lifting and way lifting that have way classes. So there's S A top number that we can hit in terms of body size. But yet we continue to get stronger and faster. So this very possible if you understand how to manipulate all those variables. So that being said, we can start off with you wanted to go strengthen.

yes, string. And and I I love that you mention the fact that IT is possible to increase strength without increasing muscle size. He's not dramatically because think it's not just wait class athletes.

I know a lot of people who for aesthetic reasons, they'd like to be stronger. They're hearing that having strong bones and strong muscles intended is great for longevity and for avoiding injury and so many other features of of life. And and yet they don't want to fill out progressively larger and larger sizes of clothing.

Um and we can go harder than the mechanisms on APP, if you want.

We can save that. Come back to IT. sure. Uh, what i'd love to both um what i'd love to know there was if we could define some of these modifiable variable, yes, in the context of strength.

So let's say I were were somebody who I come to you and I say um and unless you say for sake of baLance here because SHE SHE does do some way training, I bring my sister in. I say me and my sister both want to get stronger. Yes, what modifiable variable should how we modify .

the variables? I'm going to do inception on you one more time. So one of my other laws of this will be fast, I promise, of strength.

Conditioning is, in general, the default is all joints through all range of motion. So this is important because it's can answer very first question on this strength category. So in general, the ankle should go through the full range of motion. The ankle, the knee should go through the full range of motion, the nee, the hip.

the elbow seat at right across the workout, not in a single movement.

Well, right.

I would hope there is an amazing exercise. I haven't heard.

Well, there are some exercise that we're going to call more full body. Think about a full snatch like you're gona take a lot of your muscles, a lot of your joints through a lot of range of motions and other ones like an isolation. We call these single joint exercises.

So imagine a bb l, you have one joint in that particular case, album, moving the shoulder and everything else is pretty much stable. This is how the different multiple joint from single joint movements um but yeah so across I would ever say doesn't going to have to be the day but maybe throughout the week try to get every joint through foreign motion. Now a couple of quick Carry out that I am not advocating using full range motion and allowing really bad exercise technique.

So when I say foreign motion, that's the default. That doesn't mean every single person can do that for everything. Exercise IT means that's where we should be striving to, and that's our starting point. You're gonna see a lot less injury and a lot more productivity out of your training sessions.

In fact, the sciences is fairly clear on the swim strength development as well as I porch is generally enhances with a large range emotion of training and the mechanisms like somewhat understood on that. Um so that being said, if you have to get into, say, a battery position with you say little back, the spine is very good one you're in general the spine that says very neutral, we call IT. So no no flex, no extension, especially in the lombard region.

So if you if you're doing, say, a dead lift and in order to take your knee through a foreign motion of dead lift, you have to compromise your back position. That's no one on. So cava a side don't kill me, like in good positions don't .

kill yourself more importantly.

So what that matters is if we walk through strength, the very first thing i'm going to go through is the exercise selection. So let's choose an exercise at which ideally has a full range motion or close to IT that doesn't do injury for you, that you can still maintain good neck and low back and in position and everything else um you feel comfortable well so you can feel strong but you don't feel like, oh my god sh if you've never snatched before having you do a snatch for a maximum even know seventy five percent it's a terrible idea.

You're not going to feel confident this can be a train reck I would rather put you on a machine bench press, see, even though I feel stable, I feel safe here and I can just express my strength. So exercise choice in general, in general, full anger motion, and you want to kind of baLance between the movement areas. So this is an upper body press.

So this is pushing away from you. Bench press like that up our body pull, pulling and implement towards you. Uh bt row pull up um depressing should be super predictor to your body as well as vertical.

So this is lifting a way over top, your head lifting away away from you. The pull version is pulling horizon online to you and pulling vertically down, pull up things like that from the lower body. We typically all these hinges. It's sort of a funny muscle thing that no one's going to laugh up, but like maybe me.

And new here is, well, category ized muscles as our movement exercises, as pushes in polls, right? So like a squad is tends to be push because you are pushing away the ground, I dead, that is a pulling the implement up to you. But in reality, every single electrode SE is only over a pull because muscle doesn't push things away. Muscle can only contract and pulled on itself. And so again, super thing that like most people like yeah and anyone like that .

so done no but I think it's really important point because IT also species of something I think will get into later, which is that poster chain, entire chain um and if that mysterious to people become clear before long, poster chain entire chain makes a lot of sense to me because of the way it's grounded in the firing of motor neurons, which is ultimately be what controls muscles.

So I think all the time exactly so IT also depends on the lens to which one looks at life and and exercise. Of course, my lens is primarily neuroses. So, but, but I realized that the importance, I like this idea of pushing for, particularly the body overhead, pulling both tard toward the body and from overhead, that just makes really good, intuitive sense as much. Since a lot appear, we're just listening to this and not watching IT. So in your minds, folks, you can think about pushing away like a onshore overhead, like lifting something overhead and then pulling toward your midline, we told your body rather, and then pulling yourself up, like, I pull up in p class for those.

So the lower by the same thing, right, is some sort of pushing away like a squad, or split squad, or a lunch or something like that, and some sort of animal called poll or hinge. So dead left or remaining dead left or hamstringing curl or something where you're contracting and calling bullying da thing. And and you can to put this into like a thousand different categories.

If you're really in that field, you going to want to add a bunch other ones. But that is like a rough conception. So if you are going to do a single workout, you could choose for exercises and you could choose one of each one, press upper body, press one upper body pull, one lower body hinge, one lower body press.

And then I would be like a decently well rounded exercise um that's your exercise selection. And if you taking those three forming into motion, you're a pretty good spot course if you can. The next one is intensity.

So if you want to develop strength, this comes back to one of my favorite sciences of all time. What happens to me? A nerve guy, actually.

And generally, I like to shoot on nerves as much as I possible can have a muscle guy. But I have to give herman some credit here, right? And I know.

you know who?

Prince, of course. right? So this is a series of papers as nature at least some .

of them yeah yeah in .

one hundred and fifty four fifty six or like something you can fact check me i'm sure you will um but he basically I went this idea that okay um there is a certain recruitment threshold needed for neurons to fire. And we have muscle fibers in vocal, faster ge muscle fibers and slow tage muscle fibers. And in general, you're going to activate the slow twitch once first because they tend to be associated with low rush.

Old modern is not exactly that way, but it's is close enough, right? Well, the only way that you activates of these higher threshold neurons is to demand the muscle to produce more force. And it's fairly specific to force, right? Is not something you can do over an endurance thing, right? Unless that gets really extreme and the tick happens on.

So in general, the only way to use these big chunks of your muscle, which are incredible important for aging, by the way, one of the major problem we have with aging, developing our development of aging later issues with muscle, is the fact we lose fast, which fibres preferentially, and then we have major problems as we go down the line, because we've lost a big chunk of our strength and size. So you want to make sure these fibers stay alive and inject, okay? So if that being said, the only way to develop strength is to chAllenge the muscle to produce more total force.

If you are fairly untrained or new, I guess I should state this all the begin as well. One more inception that on stop, when IT comes to this level of detail of exercise prescription, A A fairly untrained person is gna respond basically the same to every single thing you do. In fact, we've done this in the life many times.

We've on training studies, doing things like thirty minutes of cycling and seeing huge increases in muscle strength size, which is not a prescription for most people, tend excise, but people that are really untrained, if you did pal metrics or strength training or and dance running, they all just get Better at everything. So that cabinet kind of aside, if you want to be more intentional, more specific to to the goal of strength, you need to produce more force. Specificity matters, right? So we have size principle to help understand this.

And we have our laws of specificity, which say, said principle, right? Specific adaptation to impose demand. So the adaptation you get or the result of your training is going to be a reflection of the demand that you imposed.

So if you want to get stronger, you need to impose a demand of strength, not repetitions. So this has to be the load has to be very high. In general, you're probably looking at above eighty five percent of your winter at max.

If you're moderate trained, maybe seventy five percent will work. Lowly trained, again, everything works. But in general, we want to be pressing a load that's very happy.

So because the intensity demand is so high, that is going to enforce you to do a low repetition range. You can't do twelve rebs and ninety five percent that then I wouldn't be ninety five percent. You want a max.

So by definition, true strength training is really going to be in like five repetitions person or less range. That's where most of it's going to occur for specifics. So we've covered choice intensity and um repetitions, right.

The total amount sets that you do is is really kind up to your personal fitness level, right? Um if you did as little as like three sets for exercise, that's probably enough work sets totally yeah totally works at right. So get fully warmed up and build up to that eight five percent.

Don't just walk the 3 ty five percent on and go thank you。 That's a that's so important distinction. So work your way up. Do some um like a very classic warm up thing would be like a set of ten at fifty percent, a set a at sixty percent, a set of maybe eight, again seventy percent and then maybe like a set of five at seventy five percent.

So two or three or four sets kind of building intensity and lowering range and then you would go after your two or three working sets. Um also in terms of western ables now because we're trying to the primary driver of strength is intensity. It's it's not the world this intensity.

So in order to maintain that, we have to do a low repetition range. But in addition, we also have to have a hier rest able because if we start to, we have any amount of fatigue cr, and we have to then either reduce the reps or reduce the intensity. We've lost the primary driver.

We've lost that main signal. So the number we're going to throw typically is like two to four minutes. So imagine you did you set a bench press and you did five repetitions at eighty five percent.

You probably want to rest two to four minutes before coming back to the bench. That doesn't mean you have to sit there on your phone like account, please don't like everyone will thank you for not doing that. I um you can engage other muscle groups is what we've called super setting.

So if you're doing your bench present while that two minute clock is running for your chest to rest, you go over until your and so you know you can kind of move back and forth and this is how you can make strength training, not seven hour workout for your professional, that you're gona take that time because you want to maximize the outcome. Um we've on this action, our love to supersets will reduce the strength gains but by a tiny amount. And most of us don't care enough relative to it's going to triple the length of your training session. It's not worth IT. So for the average person, I will tell them super set for someone who's trying to break a word record and weight of thing and parody, I don't super set.

Interesting yeah I think I ve found that um I don't recover particularly well from strengthen hype bridal py training. So I work out the next from workout to workout unless I keep the total duration of those workout. I'd like to say no more than sixty minutes of work, of real work, maybe seventy five past seventy five.

I find I just started to and I have to introduce additional last days or I just get weaker over time. So i'd set up kind of limit at fifty minutes, and then I usually violated that limit and I end up doing sixty minutes. So i'm excited to hear that one can super set exercises as long as they work.

Different muscle groups, of course. Yeah right. So I wouldn't anted to like bench pressing overhead press superseded because if we can, I think that's goes without saying for most people, but just to point that out, but that I could um do some push pull push pool without compromising total intensity that much.

And I I certainly would be willing to give up a little a rapier there a few pontier there um and may ask whether not um in doing that one gets any even tiny bit or more of additional benefit in terms of cardiovascular work because I imagine after even a one rep max which I ve never done as imagine IT let's I get three raps on the overhead press and then I get. Four raps on a waited, pull up and going back and forth no doubt gona be breathing harder than if I was sitting there texting away on my phone. Up in between that.

Yes, of course, yeah. And so in fact, in general, one of things that all present on my class is a giant list of exactly on the top is all these different exercise adaptations. I started the conversation on the vertical column are as many of the physiological potential adaptations one would get.

So changes in indigenous P. H, A, blood pressure, alph tic changes, bone density, all these things, right? And you have this janki st.

And then you can run on matrix and you can start to look at, okay, I do speed training, and i'm gonna see changes in nervous system. Well, like very much so, right? That's the primary actually reason those things work. Very little change in the muscle system.

It's almost exclusively explained by the central or powerful one nervous system, right? On that same token, are you going to expect many cardiff ast gravitation from speed? And the answer is no because although we didn't cover IT speed is very low intensity, very low red range, very high rest well, as you go to like strength, then you go to hyper trapt, you start seeing more and more increases in cardiff aas creditors because you're doing exactly that, right? You are starting to reduce rest and you're starting to increase volume, but you're gona lose things like bond mineral adaptations because the load source to go down.

So you can look at this major understand if i'm a person who wants to kind of maximize the adjectives I get across my entire physiology for the a least amount of work, you can choose these different adaptations to go after that. Are you gonna land on these things, right? And in exactly, you mentioned if you're going to take five minutes rest between each rap.

So let's say the extreme, you are going to do three sets of one repetition for strength that ninety five percent you're onna take probably five, maybe seven minutes between each attempt. You Better not expect many like changes in arresting lood pressure that there's no quarter vaster strain there. You're going to put IT together in a circuit we're onna lose some potential strength adaptation, but you're gonna gain something there.

So all these things are is not about good or bad or right or wrong, is always about what that advance want, what do you want? And I can cut like really end to the chase here on all these things because we'll get this eventually. If you want to know the ones that are going to generally give you the most physical adaptations across the most categories, you're almost always looking for a portuguee type of training. And then this and robot conditioning piece going to that's gonna IT the most systems at once.

That's great to known. We should definitely go a little bit deeper on those types of what the model variables are for those categories because I think that i'm getting in the vast majority of people want to be a bit stronger, maybe add some a little bit muscle or more um get make sure their heart is healthy and a um this is wonderful and I think is clarifying certainly a lot for me.

So for strength, I guess training frequently sequences, what term training frequency. And I had a great benefit a long time ago when I was in a high school, actually, I paid for a session over the phone with mike manser, you know, the mike man. We had to be friends over time.

At the time, I was pretty Young, and my mother kept saying, like, why is this like grown man calling the house and we would talk all the time about train, but he tried to convince me to train once every five to seven days uh very few sets, very high intensity um and I must say IT worked incredibly well, I think, with my recovery and which was not very good, I think is improved over time. I was not very good. IT was remarkable. But of course this is was a time .

when I was full of the most .

and work on my own version of box, right? I really had had a long art .

of that was mostly .

untrained. I had running across country and escape boarding and playing soccer.

So things that are like the antithesis .

of he was literally, and people who probably say impossible to, something like forty pounds of muscle inside of twelve months, he was crazy. And so then, of course, that stopped working over time and then you start going down the the auto c of trying to find the thing that's gna work that well and you eventually realized that he was because you were untrained, right?

Um so training frequency is is crucial, let's say that people are doing this whole body workout as you describe them, not alteration upper body, lower body because there are so many different split that we doesn't pride doesn't make sense to go into split in right now. But how often can can and should want trainer muscle and how do you know if a muscle is recovered locally and how do you know if your nervous system is recovered? system? Ally.

okay. This is a bunch of really interesting questions. I'm not sure exactly what right you want to go. So i'll start here um as I mention early, so is not good broome ter exercised quality because some types of training are going to induce more sonus and some are going to induce less.

That's important to this conversation because when you ask about how novel muscles ready to train again, one of the question is what you training for. If you're training for hypocrisy, right? Muscle size, muscle group, we need to head chords recovery.

Because what you're trying to do cause a massive insult. T there, allow them protein sentences to occur, building a new tissue, which takes time, forty eight to seventy two hours, that kind of a minimum that processes sucker. If you're doing actually more strength and this is a differences between hybrid e and strength, then you didn't induce actually much damage.

In fact, you're generally not going to get very soon from true strength training very little unless you get really heavy. Did a lot. The primary driver of a portrait y is not the same primary driver of strength.

We talked about that way. That's intensity driven. And for all IT for hy, it's not intensity.

So because we have different mechanisms, we have different outcomes even though they're closely line, strength is not going to cause a lot of songs. Therefore, intensity is the driver. Therefore, frequency can be as high as you want.

So you can train every single day the same exact muscle. If speed or power or strength are the primary try training tools because you need stimulus skills skills well, right, practice that. You know that as much as anybody developing a new motor pattern requires a lot of repetitions, right?

You don't need a tremendous amount arrest. That's not it's not a damage thing, right? It's a rep atterly issue. So strong training. In fact, if you look at, again, truth strength, professional athletes, they're going to train the same muscles basically every day. Well, they're going to squat everyday.

And is that because the primary mode of adaptation is recruitment of these high threshold motor units?

So it's mainly neural at so I wanted him to say that and this is what .

I got all fight. Well, i'm not saying that that was actually there was a question mark OK.

if we were online put in comments with I want to block you, I think you ready probably twice. Um okay, the early adaptations to exercise, especially strange training our hedge towards the nervous system, no question about the people always say central nervous system, but it's probably more poor for whatever semantics probably but peden's, it's nervous.

Um if you train today tomorrow morning, you're not going to wake up with they actually increase in contract our proteins and muscle. Your muscle might be little bit bigger due to some acute swelling, but you could have an in and a pretty acute that persist, change them and the nervous system will all IT that allows you to be stronger like within a couple of days. Sustained hyperfine is probably more long lines of four weeks.

Or we can see that, right? We can actually see changes like in the ultra sum. Now you're making changes immediately. That protein synthetic process is happening like very fast and it's gona blast this. This takes us time to measure IT in terms of a noticeable change in your home size.

So that being said, the first four weeks, we typically say our prime mary, uh, nervous system after that, now we're seeing starting to see most of the changes coming from the muscle side of the equation. So with strange development is a combination of three areas. In fact, all muscle contraction has the same three things.

IT starts off with some signal right from somewhere on the body, whether it's all up the top or the level of the spine, depending on if this is a reaction or an actual conscious control from there that some signal hasc tell the muscle contract OK. So signal is one, two. It's mosquito contraction.

And there's a lot of variables inside the muscle tissue itself that determine its functionality. And so if we took an individual BIOS, cy took a muscle fibre from you and took on from me, we took those muscles out and put them in A P dish. And I tied one end to a four transducer, the other end to a thing that post.

And we soaked in the bath of calcium and a bunch of other stuff, even if they were the same size. Your fibers might contract a lot faster than mine, even relative designs um or not or slower or there's various properties. So the intrinsic fibers themselves determine a lot of functionality from there.

Muscle fibers don't cause movements. Muscle fibers simply contract. They are all surrounded with connective tissue, and that's all surrounded with a bunch of more connected tissue that all surrounded to do a muscle.

That muscle is in surrounding red with more connected tisa that all comes together into a giant tender. That tender attaches to the bone. It's pulling all most tender and actually move the bomb that cause human movement.

So that's area three. Area one, the nervous system area to the muscle contractionary. Three, some sort of connective tissue thing changes happen at all three of those levels. And we're not even now talking.

We even you entered the discussion of a mechanics and you have changed, say, the pension angle of the muscle, which is the angle at which the muscle fibers lay relative to the bomb, right? This is basic mechanics as IT pulling per predict lar to the man is a pulling or something to the bone or some sort of angle. All of these things determine human performance.

So when you're talking about in that strength development, you can see tremendous improvements in total force production by manipulation of those areas. And you have not touched changes in muscle size. If you change muscle size in a true sustained fashion, whether this is circle plasmic or contract our proteins, you have given yourself more opportunity to produce more force.

IT doesn't guarantee you produce more force. A body builders are not stronger than power lepers, even though they have more muscle, but body builders are probably stronger than most people, so there is a relationship between muscle size and strength. Is this not a one to one guaranteed ratio? And that's generally because the although the muscle has been aided, they may have not changed the ba mechanical considerations.

They have may have not changed the connected tissue nor the nervous system up. And so that's why we see this giant relationship that our value is pretty high between string and empty. But if you really want to get to the ends of IT, it's not.

And that matters to your actual question ten minutes ago because again, you can train strength daily on the same muscle. But if you want to allow that process of contact, contract our proteins to add and grow, then you can have to allow some recovery. Because if you go back into that muscle too soon, you're going to blunt the response, you gonna stop, you gonna cut off.

You have all kinds of of problems going on in the cell that are gonna um just attenuate that that growth response. So I gave you the answer for strength in the answer for a portrait. Y is probably less than three at a ten unlevel sonus.

You can go again. In general, you're probably looking at seventy two hours is the up Manda. So if you trained your your shoulders ers on monday, you probably we don't want to train to begin on tuesday.

If I purchase es ago, maybe wednesday, maybe thursday's best. So something like an every two, three day window is probably, and we know a little bit more now about why that is the gene casa. The signalling response happens, well, the signal happens instantaneously, right within seconds.

The gene cade is probably in a peaked in a four hour window, like the, depending on which gene you want to look at. But this is kind of a snaps shot. But the protein sentences is process is twenty four, forty eight hour thing.

And so what tends to kind of look like let that thing finish and let that single go back to baseline and then get IT again and then head again. And now as long as you're providing the nutrient, the recovery should happen and you should be able to sustain the same work output in the training session. So the stimulus stays high and the recovery is there, and you can now continue to grow muscle.

You mention forty to seventy two hours for hypocrisy. What if be formal, whatever reasons that the training split lifestyle factors that said, a somebody say, let's use york able trains a shoulder on monday um ideally they would train them again on thursday in their particular instance somewhere dyer thursday, but they don't they wait until saturday or sunday for whatever reason. Maybe it's more compatible with their work, work in other exercise schedule, whatever the reason. Are they actually losing hypertrophy that they gained or they missed out a window to induce further hypocritic?

It's probably Better to think about letter. It's not that you you've lost IT receive just can last an opportunity to to make more progress. I will save you a little bit kind of going back to your hit program. This is the original high intensity training that the mentor thing, right? IT is not the .

hit with one eye, not the high intensity of energy training, but high intensity training, one set to absolute failure to name to for each monster group twenty.

and work out dividing your .

riding a three into a three way split, and then literally training facing six times a month, which most people think that is absolutely crazy. There's no way that's going to work. And I can tell you, if you are untrained, you you grow like a weed. If you train hard enough.

even if you're train, look at the people might trend. He put a lot of body builders on really high levels. Now they had the same, similar help you had at that time frame.

Way to be very clear. I was not taking in a box. In fact.

I probably, I wasn't measuring .

my levels there, but I probably would. I grew easy and general. I tend to grow pretty easily from weight training. But the but and I should say that to my credit, and I think this is an important message, that he was the one who really said, look, unless you're going to make a professional career out of IT yeah do not run the health hazard of exogenous hormones is certainly not at your age so he deterred me from that which he was great because never entered my mind IT just was one of those things where ah mig mentor said don't do IT and he had clearly done IT right and so he's speaking from an informed place. IT never entered my mind but also I was was really wild as I was continuing to run across country. And so there was a there was a trade off at some point when you're Young, you can get many people can get away with with what a this sage would surely placed into a state of over training, even at low volume.

Well, I mean, like that the whole field on interferences effect has changed quite a uh, recently, which we can come back to if you want. Um but just to finish out the the idea here with that last question. Um if you want to take five days for six days in between each month, you can do that effect.

If you look at the research, it's gonna that frequency is not that important. IT will sound that is not important, but it's you can handle changes as long as you get to the same total volume. So you can do that, you just have to do a lot more work than that one workout.

If you care about the six week, eight week, think if you like, i'm in this for the next sixty years. It's probably OK right um but I can be there that the chAllenge with spit up your training sessions for a portrait y in the smaller numbers like once, twice a week, it's just difficult to get that number is difficult to get that volume down. Um volume wise, the more recent of analysis are going to say that you're probably looking at around ten working sets per muscle group per week seems to be kind of a minimum threshold that you're gonna anna hit.

So if you did three set to ten at your shoulders on monday, three set to ten shoulders wednesday and three on but that's nine working sets if you want to to do three different shoulder were uh exercises on monday and hit your nine insets, it's not really actually to be that much different. The problem is tennis kind of the minimum. You probably want to look for more like fifteen to twenty.

And in fact, well, train folks twenty twenty five that becomes very chAllenging in one workout of definitive. You're not to be able to do IT, right? And so that is where it's not frequency that looks like that kills you as the effect you have got to get because the total driver of strike is intensity, but the total driver of volume assume you're taking a to fatigue writer muscular failure.

So it's just tough to get enough done, if you can. Um and if you want to set your scan, you love that way. Like you probably remember, if you do those types of training sessions where you're just onna completely exhaust a muscle, it's gonna.

It's going to. So for while you you're you're probably not going to come back and that sort the logic behind that was just take the thing to tremendous failure and give IT six days to recover. Um IT can work is is not the best I think is one going to think about .

IT for most people, it's also hard to do those work out without a .

training partner if you really want to do them a well .

anyway that yes, stimulants or not, I don't certainly don't recommend those IT may be a cup of coffee or two if that's your thing but and maybe some of the safer supplements, but certainly not sorts of stimulants that the guys in the seventies and eighties were seven for seconds or still use. Um you talk about repetition ranges broadly for strange training, so fior less yes, you said frequency could be as often as every day.

Yes, rest two to four minutes, maybe even longer. You're going for one repetition maximum for hypertrophy. What are the repetition ranges that are effective? And what are the ones that are most effective if one is trying to maximize some of the other variables, like people don't want to spend more than an hour to seventy five minutes in the gym?

Because I think that while the rapid rangers might be quite broad, as you will look to earlier, there is the practical, there are the practical constraint. yes. So what what repetition ranges or percent of one repetition? Max mum um should people consider when talking .

about hydrophone right um the quick answer there is anywhere between like five to thirty raps percent that's gona show across the literature pretty much equal approaches um and we can have a really interest discussion about why that is.

But i'm just remember ing one thing from a second ago, and I want to give a Better answer for the frequency you can do every single week for every single day for drinks if you want the like was probably minimally viable to twice per week per muscle. So and strains strength twice work. That's a good number to get most people really strong OK you can do every single day.

You don't need to do so. I I wanted make sure that like I wasn't saying, you have to train a muscle eighty five percent every single day to get us wrong. Two was a good number.

Three, great. But probably even two was really effective. Got IT.

This explains that the high frequency of training for a strength athletes that always missed fied me. yeah. And the very long workout to make sense.

Because in twice, even though the squad in the morning squad the afternoon .

everyday they're eating in their sleeping and they really .

don't have time for anything else prose so that's a job, right that's what they do. Um so yeah your project y um strength training programing is somewhat complicated, right because of that's not the danger, but you can have to pay one way the other right the risk is a little bit higher, is a little higher and you have to be little more technically profession when IT comes to a pretty training.

The way I like to explain IT, it's kind of idiots of the programing is idiot proof. The work is hard though. So you here's a range anywhere between you know five reaps and thirty that can you hit somewhere there? perfect.

It's all equally effective. You can't threw that up. The only cabot for hybrid is you have to take IT to muscular failure .

and you need enough rest for the adaptation and protein sensor.

If you cover faster, you can maybe do IT more frequent. If you don't, maybe less.

Should people perhaps experiment and figure out what repetition range allows them to recover um in concert with the training frequency that they can do consistently? My .

recommendation is I think you should actually set your uh use the reputation range as a way to have some variation because most people don't want to go the genetic three at ten, they're going to get very boy very quickly. And so I I think you should actually intentionally change the rep schemes for simple sake of having more IT is a very different chAllenge.

The mechanisms that are reducing hypo be are different, but there's only a maximum amount of growth that one can get right. And so you have as best we think IT now and and some people actually will, the spouse that we know really clearly about the mechanisms of most liberties we don't is still very much a guessing game. But the three most likely drivers are, one medical express, two mechanical attention, and in three muscular damage, you don't have to have all three.

One is sufficient, you can have a little bit of one or two, and you can count. So you get to play. here. We've got to talk about the muscular damage.

Again, it's very clear more damage is not Better, but IT is somewhat a decent proxy, right? Like I get a little bit as soon as is good, you don't get so sorts compromising your total volume, right? Mechanical tension is kind like drink.

This is why if you do even set to five or eight and your clinical string point, you will gain a little bit of muscle, not optimal muscle, again, but you're going to gain some because everything that these like physical gy didn't cut off for four reps and then five reps is a different thing, right? It's it's always a blends. So think of IT is like a fading curve, and you get closer to the end that fades less effective as you get closer to the middle is more effective.

Anywhere between eight reps, person to thirty is equally effective. Past thirty is gna blend out. Past eight to five to four three, it's onna blend no less than there.

So metabolised ss is one, the damage is the other. Or sorry, mechanical attention is the one that's heavy, a muscle damage in the one. The third one is medical express.

And this is um I get A A bit of an area of scientific contention, but something there I know something there we just just kind of fumbling to figure out what exactly is. And this is medical express is the burn right? It's there um it's why blood flow restriction training probably works that's done very light.

So no mechanical tension. There's very little damage. But somehow IT induces a good amount of my trapt, very painful.

I tried this of a friend, former special person, or who was on the east coast, and took me through a blood flow restriction training protocol in the park. And I don't think I I actually cried, but probably I might have cried out once or twice. IT was unbelievable, especially the lower body movements was a humid day, i'll claim over a year but I was brutal.

IT was really brutal and I also the best year I feel bit IT was intense and um and and people should know that IT IT is important to use the proper cuffs for these things. I don't have any a relationship doing the companies that sell these cups. But the reason is that you actually need to block particular avenues of blood flow.

You can't simply sign off a muscle. You can turn to get a muscle and train. You can actually kill yourself that.

So if you're interested in blood of restriction train, imagine you have some content about this or will at some point. But also there are resources online. People got, yeah uh a question about hypertrophy train. I think many people are wondering about train to failure or don't train to failure assuming good form yeah .

kay summing form great. Um the answer is both. So you wanted train to failure, but you don't need to go to extreme failure.

So you don't need to necessarily go to that like a partner has to lift the bubble off my chest, but you have to get close. You have to drive either heavy stress damage, right or or pump. And so I really easy track where to think about this.

Um I heard mike user tale, who runs a company reinspired zo years ago, outline that A N S A talk and IT was beautiful. And I think this is the most eloquent way to explain the context about training crap briery. So on way to look for three things in your workout, and let's say that you have a particular muscle to grow.

Let's say you are in your groups, take larger, okay, when you're doing your glue exercises. Es, number one, are you feeling the glue contract? okay? Doesn't have to be there, but it's a good sign.

If IT is okay, let's say I didn't really feel my glue contract. I felt IT more my cloth or my back. okay.

Did you feel a big pump afterwards? No, I didn't really feel a pump there either. Words are doing okay.

great. Number three, next day, did you feel little bit of sonus there at all? No, I did. Well, that's a very good in a case you didn't fill IT in the workout, you felt no sort of pump p and I didn't get sore. Don't expect much growth.

Didn't attributed the work across my a bunch of muscle groups.

Most likely other muscle groups were tn involved, right? Especially if you're like, no, a man, my back are really well. That's a really good indication of telling you what the hell was moving.

And so in terms of targets, if you were to put I going to wonder, you know, ten scale, how much should I feel that burning during anything lesson to three OK? It's probably not doing much, right? But IT doesn't like seven is not a ten is not Better than seven.

You need to feel IT, but IT doesn't have to be like whole, my dying here. So same bro. Ea, right? So if you can get like three, three and three, you're probably in a pretty good, good spot. Five, five and five is may be Better, but you don't need to go much past that.

So I want you to feel the muscle group either working or if you like, I didn't feel that much shi. You really get to pump the next day I really ore then still you knowing on a good path um again, really sore is and like who a little tender but next day it's okay. Then after that, I I could train, no problem.

That's really what you want to go after. And in terms of understanding, is this likely to produce some growth or not? ExcEllent.

excEllent, very clear parameters and recommendations I know are benefiting me, will benefit a lot of people if you be willing to throw out a few sort of sets and red parameters that could act as broad guidelines for people who want to explore further. Um I realized that with all these modifiable variables that there is no one size fits all for string. I love this five to thirty for hypertrophy that's thing. I don't think i've ever done a thirty rep set of anything but but now that you've thrown that out there.

I see as a thirty you're gonna get an insane pump. You're onna burn like crazy but you won't get super sore because i'm kind of attention so low is so light so you can you can get away with those things and you it's hard because your mind is going to wonder you're going to get to like rob twenty, you get up done and you're like now there's there's a lot left here to get thirty where like a set of ten is is much easier.

Like you just like go, okay, two more, two more thirties. Like I got sixteen more, it's awful. But account t right and people tend to just kind of like check out, so thirties possible, but a little bit stream extreme. But I would recommend all of them like it's a really fun play.

You can do different in the same work out two, by the way, like you could do one set of ten uh, push ups and then take a little break and then do a set of twenty that you can you can mix and match these things. Um there's no magic recipe that has to happen for all those. Or do IT different. So mondays are my set of ten days, wednesday days are my set of twenty days, and fridays are my set of thirty days. And you can have all kinds of fun there.

And it's hard to screw up. great. And that phrase is always reassuring. So for strength, there's very certain rebs protocol that, yes, that is pretty sure fire.

So waited to just think about a really fast answer for power or speed. Power instruct is, but I just call three to five concept, right? So pick three to five exercises.

If you're feeling Better that day, choose in the higher end. If you're feeling less that day or you have a shorter time frame, the train go less. So this will be three sets or three exercises rather, or five exercises most.

So three to five exercises do three to five reps, three to five sets take three to five minutes rest in between, and do IT three to five times a week. So that can be as little as three sets of three for three exercises, three times week. That's that's a twenty minute work out three times week.

IT can be as high as five sets of five for five exercises, five days a week. So it's very broad and allows people to still stay within the domain s of strength, power, while still being able to move and come to our tour, their lifestyle and and so as and time and all those things. The only different you to pay attention to between power and strength is intensity.

So if you want strength, this is now eighty five percent plus of your max, right? If you want power, IT needs to be a lot lighter because you need to move more towards of velocity and the spectrum. Because power is drink, multiply by speed.

So while getting stronger, by definition, can help power, you probably want to spend more of your time in the forty percent to seventy percent range, like plus or minus. So that's IT. Both film conceptually, the work, everything else, the exercise, the raps, the the frequency. All that can be still in the three to five range just change the intensity depending on which outcome you want.

The nervous system obviously plays an important role at the level of nerves controlling the contraction of muscle fibers. But of course, we have these upper modern ons, which are the ones that reside in our brain, that controlled the lower moderns, that controlled muscle. And this takes us into the realm of where the mind is at during a particular movement. And to me, this is not an abstract thing I can imagine doing workouts that are mainly focused on strength or mainly focused on hyperdrive phy.

And in the case of strength, am I trying to move weights and when i'm trying to generate hydrophone, and I trying to quote and quote, chAllenge muscles, in other words, yeah, if I just trying to move away, away from my body, push, pushing a bench press or an overhead press, I don't know that I want my mind thinking about the contraction of my media adult. I think I want my mind in getting the way overhead with the best pop, a perform best, excuse me, and proper form. And certainly with hypertension training best in proper form is going to be the target as well.

But that simple, or I should say.

subtle mental shift changes the patterns of nerve vibor recruitment. So can we say, to get stronger, focus on moving weights still with proper form and safely, and to get hypocrisy, focus on chAllenging muscles still with proper form and safely?

It's very fair I S as a snaps on answer IT is a very fair thing to think about um intentionality matters for both. In other words, if you look at some interesting sciences had done on power development and speed development, the intent to move is actually more important than the actual move of velocity.

So if if you're doing, say, something for power or strength and you're doing just enough to get the bar up, that will result in less improvements in the strength then even if you're moving at the exact same speed, but you're intending to move faster. And this is one of the reasons why good coaching matters. So if you are coaching, although through a power work out especially and they're doing enough to just lift fifty percent of one at max, it's not going to generate as much speed development as them trying to move that bar as fast. I can't even if the t result is the same marvel velocity. Turns out nerves matter.

What I mean, I I was I say amazing, but as a scientist, if I say amazing that nerves where what's amazing to me is I understand recent what you're saying is that even if the bar is moving at the same speed, same way, you if my internal representation, my thoughts are i'm trying to move this as fast as possible versus i'm just trying to get the bar away from me and and get the weight up, i'm going to get different outcomes.

Yes, this is quality of work, right? This is, did you do enough to just check off the box? Or did you actually strive for adaptation? right? Similar concept actually works by purchasing y in terms of there is a handful very recent studies that have looked that we will call a mind muscle connection. And this is things like imagine a bip curl and you're simply looking at and watching your bye and you're thinking about contracting IT harder even though you execute the same reputations at the same exact intensity. Initial indications are the mind body connection are going to result in more growth than not.

You just gave authorization for people to look at their muscles contracting in the gym. Please do.

Yeah, of course.

right this. But the he is still ruled out.

I'd rather you look at your muscles in your phone so i'm fine of that. Um those are national. We don't have a large depth of research to support that atton maybe themselves will come encounter, but IT IT does IT matches what folks in that community have been saying for a very long time, right?

There's actually some stuff on simply flexing in between. So if you've never seen a body build a little, it'll do their set up by crews and theyll get more flexi. They're really this. What aren't did, right? This is if you go back to .

pumping in iron or college weight rooms, I should say for some reason, there's something about that age group. There's a lot of checking of biceps in college ate rooms .

for reasons that escape me if you ever interact with my wife for like SHE will be the first to tell you I cannot walk past a mira without .

like i'm checking something .

out that you I can't OK not hurt. I'm a muscle guys, so always like thinking and tinkling whatever. But yeah, IT is I think it's very much worth your time to do a higher quality training session, be more tension, be present, then just executing the same as I work out.

I think that's globally very clear to be to your advantage. So if you're thinking like I like I don't want to work out today. I got others going on.

I'm tired or whatever i'm just going to do the work out anyway to get through IT. okay. If you can go you know what though? Like i'm going to cut fifteen minutes out of this thing.

I'm to get my head right. I'm going to go to twenty minutes of quality work done. That's that's your best option by far.

You looked to the fact that even just looking at a particular muscle might benefit in terms of the number of virus you can recruit or its its potential for hypocrisy. Uh i've heard before and I certainly um have experienced that muscles that for whatever reason genetics or sports that one played that said a muscles that uh we find that we can contract to the point of almost a slightly painful contraction seem to grow more readily.

The muscles that we can't recruit very easily and um and there and the reason I mentioned sports that we played earlier, as i've been, you just have to watch olympics to see that you know swimmer obviously are very good engaging their lats you look at the gym ists, they seem to be very good engaging everything here and they go through a huge number of different dynamic movements that explains that um so I find that you know if people say, oh you know I can't get stronger in this or my whatever body party is weak in terms of in its inability to engage. I see that often times that can be because of an inability to to engage those upper modern neons to deliberately isolate those muscles. Are there ways that people can learn to ice, engage virtual lar muscle groups more effectively over time for the sake of hypertrophy or strength, or for cases of trying to overcome injury potential or injury? Because baLances are bad across the board.

And this is actually very common. And I think everyone is probably going to this. There is some part that you just can't get going.

For me, that was the lats. That was a wrong boy. It's so my back muscles, for years I couldn't activate my lats or my rong boys.

This is the the muscle groups that connect your shoulder blades, gentis ezor shouter blades, together outside of muscles that cut your wrong. You're lots, of course, are more vertical and pull you up and down. And no matter how many that pull downs I did, bent rose pull up, I can never see any development there. No increase in strength. And IT took me a probably a decade to figure out how the held actually get these things on.

In fact, if you've asked me, even in my college is a college power player, hey, flex your lats like, show me your lats you would have seen no no movement there um when I was doing a pull up in that particular case, the only way I get the bar the move was be was by using my biceps. I said the synergy muscle supposed to be a second arr tursi muscle in that movement, but for me he was primer because of my own strength in my bicycle, coupled with my lack of activation. So you're compensating in the same move.

And actually kind easy way to think about this is imagine doing a bit role. Imagine you're bent over kind of a forty five degree or horse on angle and you going to pull a barbell to your belly button. All right, now you can actually do that exact same movement with very little book muscle activation by simply flexing your elbows more and see you think you're the barber s going all the way down, is coming all the up to touching my belly, and you think you're doing a great back development exercise.

And in fact, because of the way that you're executing the movement, you're getting very little back development. And this is a really good example of why someone has done a specific exercise many, many, many times be yet failed to see development in a monster group, which goes back to earlier part of our conversation, which is why exercises themselves do not determine the adaptation. It's the execution that matters, right? It's the technique.

It's the rep range. All of those are going to determine your actual result. So if any time you are your your banging in your heads against the wall and thinking like, why am I not getting movement here, growth and strength to whatever, it's almost one of those.

It's guarantee to be one of those areas, right? You're probably not getting on the muscle groups to activate in that particular example just because we're here. Try um imagine doing that bent road instead of pulling the marbles to your belly, squaze your shouter boys together first as far as they can possible.

Go and then bring your elbows up without changing the angle of your elbow so I was without bringing your hand closer to your shoulder so keep that same angle come up as high you possible can and then finish out the movement that's going to guarantee A A unitization first of the back muscles and A A finishing with the by sups um at the end, which is how that movement is supposed to go. So how do you coach into that? Well, IT can be a number of things.

Whenever I am diagnosing move equality, I look for a handful of things. But very first one is awareness. You be surprised how many folks when you just simply tell them that muscle group right there, and maybe you give A A tactical prop so you touch IT, you put something against IT.

And this is actually why, sorry, i'm jumping go over this. But this is why, uh, things like I built work very well for actually increasing abominable strength. So a misconception out there is, if you wear like a built when you're lifting, then the bell kind of does all work for you and your ABS get weaker.

That can happen, but the exact opposite can happen as well. So if you take a belt, for example, and you send you down really tight, and then you just completely disregard your midd section, you will see a loss of strength in your midsection because not a belt that is doing the work. But if you put the belt on just a little bit kinds tight to where you get some sensory feedback, and you think about using that built is a way to activate the corner s good ture, you will actually see a higher. And you, if we look, I like E M G activation, the core muscles will be activated higher to a greater extent, then when the belt is off, because of proper active fee.

back hundred percent. And for those wondering what proper accept of fee back is, probably observe the feedback is that, uh, there are nerves uh, that extend out to the muscles that control muscle contractions. But then there are sensory inputs from the skin and muscle that go back into the nervous system in those working in concert, and that that feedback is proper active. I think IT literally translates to a knowledge where one's limbs are and what's happening on those limbs. I've I don't I don't have a training partner, but i've seen in jim wears someone will be training and someone will tap the muscle of the person who is doing the work in order with this is consensual tapping of other people's muscles, not walking around ching people's muscles, please, that to provide appropriate help to feedback, so that the person doing the exercises IT becomes more aware of the muscle that they are supposed to be training and IT seems that that's probably an effective practice.

Yeah, I give you two examples to go to the back with that pulling movement and but stand the belt really quickly. So a very easy example that you can do right now listening. And I learned this from brian, the kenzie mutal front, right?

So if you take your hands and open a mop, like you make an l with both your hands, and i'll take those and put them around your waste just above your head ones. Now what I want you to do is press out as hard as you can on your hands with your core, and you can feel a lot of core activation. Most people think correctives ation is the front of your stomach, right? You're six back.

What you need to do is create a cylinder around your back. So it's the front, it's the side and it's the back. So if you take your two fingers, point them now, put them just outside your belly button.

Can you move your fingers or just moving your muscles? Ninety percent of people can sick do. Yes, same exact thing.

Now go to the same position. Just above was called your A S I S. Your antis perioeci right up the front of hip on run the front.

Can you now move? great. Fifty percent of people are not going to getting movement there.

Really take your son and go right above your P S I S, P S I S posterior period. fine. Right now. Can you move? Most likely if I do a mini .

low back extension.

don't just with your core musculature barely.

yeah. Maybe may ninety .

percent people can't if you can't perform that contraction, you can't stability your spine. So only way to get stabilization your spine is then to go through hyper extension and others. The compression strategy you're putting on your spine, it's Better than rounding your back like going forward.

But over extension is not great either. So you want to be able to flex the muscular in a cylindric fashion. So you have control.

So if you go back to, you are very first things. And with your hands open. And you put them right here.

And if you like, I can get activation. If you pay attention your thumb right now, just move your and now you see activation back there, right? bomb.

Now, if you can imagine turning them on just a little bit. And now notice how I can do this, by the way, at the same time, i'm talking if you have to go. We don't have control, right? So you have to be able to separate breath from brace.

So now if I can put my place of in a position and and kallie at is at twenty percent, you meet twenty percent activation here. And now I can squad, I can hang, I can jump. I don't need to be locked down to on a percent scream to be able to brace my spine that can be productive.

And I want to be here with a built provides that proper cept of feedback, where I can put IT on twenty percent and IT just is a reminder, if I don't press against the belt, the built slides and falls down a little bit because it's not on super tight if it's on so and tight doing the work and I forget. So we just want a little bit of feedback there. Same thing with your upper back having a difficult time activating those wrong boys of those lets someone can do a simple thing where they take their finger, put a right between shouter blades and you just tell them things like squeak my finger, squeers my finger as you're doing your bet roll or you're pulled down.

You can touch the that you can do um this visualization steps. So just imagine like a 3d rendering of that muster group and you're watching that muster group contract is very powerful and very effective and to do this， so a touch um a visual, all the stuff can help get people to activate outside of simple awareness. Typically e centric overload is a very effective way for uh activation of a difficult to target muscle.

So the lowering of the bar, the lowering of the weight.

the movement of the way away from the body is not necessarily was herring because that .

kind of depends .

on what doing um things like a pull up. okay. So if if if i'm going to do a pulp and I have poor light activation, I can still get the pull muscle movement executed by contraction of the, by sub and things like that.

However, to make the movement simpler, I want to go all way to the top. So imagine stepping on a box for something, going all the way to the top of the poll position. And starting from there, I want you to simply lower IT under control.

And so you just simply breaking the movement down into smaller pieces are a lot of to focus on the execution more. It's gonna be great. 1 centrists are great for strength development， very good for chopin, and allow you to fox on control.

Like i'm willing to be a huge percentage you out there who've like i've never had to sort that. You have done a lot of pull ups and things like that. If you do that east centric only you'll probably wake up the next day one, oh, gosh, I feel that there. And as a sign, even if you didn't feel IT in the workout, but I got a little sort the next day, keep down that path and then eventually be able to do a concentric, maybe take a break, maybe do an ison tric. We just hold that position and eventually worked at will and to, uh progression where you can do the concentrate events c and aim metric portions and get activation so that that may take you six weeks, may take you six months, but that's generally a pretty good strategy for learning how to activate. Also group .

terrific suggestions is IT true that events c uh emphasized movements might require a little bit longer recovery or they lead more so that ah .

they typically they're also higher force. So very good for strank development um but they are going to lead, on average to more sonus. So more potential for interest for your disruption that is going associated with pain.

There's there's not as much job people would like to explain muscle sonus as a result of micro trauma microtiter in the muscle that can happen, but that's not the norm most of the time. IT is things like disruption of calcium that's gona lead to excessive swelling, excessive pressure. And that's going to be then translator as extreme paints. That's probably explaining more muscle sonus than actually Michael trauma.

If I was gna get to breathing later. But maybe just for now, if we can do a 啊 a brief will fit into the breathing。 As IT relates to weight, training is very a prescriptive for how to breathe during resistance training. Here i'm singing with weight and not necessarily body weight on the movement. So although I suppose that could be that applies seventy five percent of the time, seventy five percent of people.

What I was taught and i'm hoping you're going tell me this was wrong because then there might be more benefit than awaiting me but um is that I should x hail on the effort and in hail on the lesser effort portion of an exercise. Is that true? Is there a Better way to breathe?

There is a Better way to think about IT. So number one, if you can break the embrace and this conversation goes away. So if you can main remain a, you can maintain intra muscular into domino pressure while breathing, then I not really care when you breathe. Very chAllenging to do at very heavy weights.

If we flagged this on two areas of a paradise paradigm, won't over here you're going to do a set of thirty and you're going to do front squats where a bar bell sitting on your throat, if you don't take a breath, this is going to end one way. And one way only you passing out clearly has to be some breathing strategy. The other end of the spectrum is, let's say you going to do a vertical job.

You don't need any amount of breath. There is never going to happen, right? The question is what about the middle, right? So i'm doing some sort of strength in there. Well, number one, make sure you're braced and then you can get away with less need to worry about IT.

Um in general, A A decent strategy is to maintain a breath hole during the layering or eat or most dangerous part of the movement and then you connect tail on the concentrate portion. So if the bench presses are example, if you held them, braced, lowered under control and i'll started the concentrate, pushing away force and then you wanted to take an expiration during the last half, the concentrate portion, that's that's an no case tragedy. If you're going to do a single rap, you don't need to worry about IT.

You can just avoid or emit breathing entirely. You going to be just fine if you're doing more than that, especially three to four to five to seven eight, you're going to have to have some breathing strategy. A very common one is um probably every third breath i'm going to do like.

Exon of third reset rebreathing something like that if you feel like you need to breathe after everyone at OK. But it's going to get wasteful because you have to take time in between raps of sitting there if it's a squad that's different. Um but sus a dead lift if you're resting in the bottom. So there there is a little bit of game here are so in general, those is that seventy five, seventy five kind really throw out. You grow up free, then do the lowering and x hail on the out if you have to less reps, don't worry about more reps and you need to come up with some .

sort of breathing strategy I have about breathing in between sets um and maybe even after the workout yeah this is something I think a lot of people overlook like and because the IT is the case, that recovery has to do both with the specific activation and um to muscles and the neuro system, but also the attacks on the nervous system can also take place between sets. And if you you really gear up between sets and you you got a general you know as high in between sets are close to IT as you are during your sets, you can imagine that the recovery would take longer or at least that you are not spending a general in most efficient way if there is such a thing.

Yeah fair. You're not going to see any active that I work with. Just breathe in between, whether it's in between innings or in between rounds.

Every single of them gonna back, sit in the school and they're not immediately be into a breathing routine. A very intentional one. There are a little bit different for every athlete depending on the sport, even A P, G, A offer.

There's going to be a we just set our ball more moving the next one. We're onna. Go to breathing strategy, everyone mits.

It's a huge area, a potential benefit and consequence if you're just ignore ing IT. Um in general, we want to do any sort of coming breath. We won a restore IT depends on if the IT depends we're combatting or rebating low ox gender high seal too.

So that strategies is going to be little bit tired. But in general, that is a huge time opportunity to get Better. In fact, on people can go back and listen to some of your earlier episode.

You talked about what you have spoken about. I think on this show, win a neuroplasticity works. And if you're losing that opportunity post exercise, you're leaving gains on the table, if you will.

So not only you are going to see every the athletes that I work with mostly have a recent strategy in competition. We're not gonna just finish a workout high five, drink water and walk out of the gym. There will be a down regulation strategy that is heavily involved with some sort of light control as well as breath control.

The individual prescription on that. There is a ton of variation with what you can do. The easiest thing is do something that comes you down.

Most likely, that's going to be moved towards as much nails of breathing as you can possibly do. And A A really easy rule farm is a double x hail length relative to in hell. So if you need to take a four second in hell, double that time and breathe out for eight seconds a box, breathing is fine.

So equal inhale, equal hold, equal ex hail, equal hold. So four second and hail for second x hold a seta a triangle is fine too. There's a lot of ways you can get really complicated, like what brian macana y will do in rob.

Those guys have you get all kinds systems for in hail, lex. So control ller can be optimize but some strategy of calm um we're gonna most always put you on your back or clothes and then they're going to cover light. Um we can do some like we've done actually a number of musical interventions as well. But you can as just as simple as sit down a locker room if you have to and just breathe for five minutes, that alone is going to be productive. That's great if you're breathing .

in the locker room for five minutes, I just just closing your eyes or you get some funny looks and if you'll still get funny looks, but you won't see people looking at, yeah, exactly. I love this. And I started doing this because you embro mackenzies informed me about this. And I completely change the rate of recovery for me. I realized that I was leaving workout, both endings workout and strange topography workout, feeling great, but looking at my phone, getting right into email and meetings, not concentrating on my breathing.

And all I did was to introduce a, on your recommendation, a five minute down regulation so excel emphasize breathing, the a budget of from bradies physiological size box breathing XL emphasize twice as long long as the in hill component for five minutes and I noticed two things, one I recovered more quickly. Work out to work out no question about IT yeah the numbers um told me that and the other is that I used to have this um dip in energy that would occur three or four hours after a hard workout and I always spot that had to do with the fact that I generally eat the meal at some point post work out turns out IT wasn't a meal at all yeah it's that that that a general and um ramp during the workouts. I wasn't clamping that at the end and so I think eventually crashed and then three four hours later I am having a hard time even reading what's on the screen of my computer, thinking maybe it's the screen, maybe was what, eight for lunch.

Turns out the down regulation allowed me to work through the afternoon with no issues whatsoever. It's really been quite powerful inside. I'm grateful to you for that. And I think this is something that I think ninety eight percent of people are not doing. And it's only five minutes.

You do not have to five. Give me three. If you really have to push, you give me three. And you can even do this. You can save time.

You can do this in the shower if if you have to so you're you're done, you're finished, drink a water, whatever has to be and you're getting in a shower already, just giving three minutes and shower, it's not ideal. But as little as that, you can pay huge dividends. Um you need some sort of internal signal that or safe I throttle down here more gna move on.

That has to happen. I have to go around here. But I I think we're making the same point. I don't again.

it's it's big deal to IT. Yeah and you're saving energy. And the energy here is neural energy.

I think fighters do this. Good fighters learn to do this between rounds. Yeah, sprinters learn to do this between events. I think human should learn how to do this between any, you know sort of interval type activity, including work, social engagement.

I mean social powerful tool. Do this for one minute after every important, whether it's an individual high voluable interaction, or if this is you just did a nice forty five minutes spring to work and you're deep into you would ever, fine, just give me one minute, set your ARM just one minute and that also will pay dividends.

I ve IT and I said it's made outsides a different positive difference on my training, but also activities outside my training, which is for me, i'm not a professional lately. I train for health and because I enjoy IT, but when a really hard work out starts interfere with the ability do the other things in lives, that's not a good situation. So this is really terrific.

There's a lot more in each of those categories of strength and hypocrisy, but you've given us a tremens amount of available information there. Maybe now would be good time to shift to endurance and of the four types of endurance um and maybe you could remind us what those are what do you think of the two that most people are seeking or pursuing in terms of health and aesthetics right I realized that we probably have athlete s out there as well. But um when I think health, the service, I think okay, the ability to do sustained in dance thirty plus minutes of some ongoing activity.

How does one back customized that work? Um what are the modifiable variables? And then maybe could tell us what the the other major category is yeah that people ought to have in their kit OK.

So starting up for exercise choice one thing as soon as we crossed into the endless world, and this is true for all for those categories, exercise choice need to be very concerned with a centric landing. So you don't need to avoid IT, but you need to recognize the relative are compared against those other strength and speed ones. The volume is low on those ones.

If you have some east centric absorption, it's okay. But as we sort of talked about five minutes ago, more recently, c means greater chance of muscle damage. So as so if you take something and magnified across thirty minutes or even five minutes, but a maximum extension, you have a recipe for blowing up.

You can imagine I haven't run and forever, and I just have listened to the human lab podcast and i'm okay, i'm going to get into my zone to training whatever. And I start jogging. A dude, you know, I remember what was I used to be twenty five, and you just do a twenty five minute jog.

The amount of events, c landing that just occurred on every single step, because you're never with running, even slow running, you never have two feet on the ground of the same time. So IT is a one foot land. One foot land your entire body mass post gravity under one lag at a time repeated now hundreds of times that events c landing is gonna tremendious us.

Your cows are gonna go. You are probably going to get some plans, which is what this is. Those are entirely caused by events c landing um and when the tissue is not ready to tolerate that, if you're not landing correctly, this is when nee pain happens, book pain, shoulder necked pain, because a mummer compensation.

So any time we start pressing to fatigue, let's be very concerned with there. So my initial recommendation has start with activities, exercise choice wise, that are mostly concentric based. So think about a cycle.

So when you're riding on a bike, you're pushing the peddle, but you're never landing a sorbing IT so you could go out and do a forty five minute bike ride and you're not going to get that sort because there's not a lot of east centric load. I'm swimming similar thing here right there. Some eat tricks when you can is the water, but fairly animals.

Mostly a push, push, push, push, push, no load growing some more thing, mostly concentric um pushing a slid is fantastic. Going up hill running or even working hard up pill all good because a very minimal landing relative to like running downhill, which should be a very, very bad idea um to start. So when if you're first jumping into these things, progress your volume for.

Very slowly, if IT involves events c landing, a really bad strategy would be to jump in and do say circuit training class that involves a bunch of box jumps right this is not a good way um to do your first four rain and conditioning. You're going to get incredibly store because you're jumping in the landing. You're now looking at three to ten x body weight in terms of absorption with a single land, even if you just jumping.

So be careful of that um in any of those in dance areas of exercise choice. So what to pick pick the one that you are most technically professional because you going to do IT a lot. This can be a lot of repetitions, whatever when you feel the most joy.

And if that's growing great, that's pushing a slide IT doesn't really matter. Um you can do this actually with weights is our preferred way, by the way, with our athletes. So we might do a thirty minute circuit where we do a five minute. Farmers Carry with a pretty light weight. So you just onna Carry some weights in your hand and you should walk up and on the street from five minutes you're going to sit that down and then you're going to do, say, a three minute plank and then you going to pick that up and you're going to do body weight squats like slowly and just tempo and need to do a handful of different exercises. So the authors don't get super board or a very simple one in for thirty minutes up, ten minutes on a red mail, ten minutes on a bike, ten minutes on a row, is you like, oh my god, I can do thirty three, eight minutes running, cool, break, king up and three or four different exercises that are all fairly safe. So that's how I would do that long duration piece for actually choice.

And then in terms of heart rate during that that period, I mean, how much tension should be paid to this? The a very broad prescriptive, i've thrown out on this pocket a few times based on my real, the literature for most people that are oriented told health, including people are working on size and strength gains.

I would be in strength, of course, that getting one hundred and fifty to one hundred eighty minutes of so called zone to cardio can just have a, just barely have a conversation. But if one we're to push any harder, you won. Be able to.

That kind thing is just a as A A generic recommendation that almost everybody should follow in order to keep their cardiovascular system healthy. But I know there is a lot of nuance there. And some people would like to be able to run continuously for an hour at speed, right? Yes, I have to see not sprinting. But what are some of the finer, finer points on the long distance endurance? How often should we do .

IT OK frequency could do to daily.

even when strength in question? Well, that, I think is an important point for people to hear, because a lot of people who think that they are going to greatly diminish their strength and hyper chopine games, as is often called um by doing in zone to cardio zoo to .

you have almost no ability to block your hybrid y don't to truly be easily with in that category. You're talking about conversational pace. Um there is very factor strong reason to think that is not an influence approaches for the overwhelming .

jordy might even help increasing lood flow. Very does IT matter, let's say someone's doing primarily strengthened hypertrophy primary goals are strengthened hypercharged y and then they're going to do they're onna hit that hundred and fifty two, one hundred and eighty month and zone to cardio per week, assuming they are breaking that up in the three or four sessions does IT matter if they do IT in the same workout before or after.

Does that matter? Um I tend to do just by way of example for people, i'm just one one example. I tend to do uh resistant training one day, then i'll do zone to cardio, next I jog because that's the thing I prefer.

Then i'll do strength potty train the next day and then in jog from my zone to cardio and then I take one full day off a week. I've never actually done the zone to Carry on the same day, but we're I have to do IT on the same day. Would IT matter if I did IT before after my my strength appear onic .

not really OK you're gonna just fine. Interference effects. The interference effect is what this is called.

So this is all way back to one thousand nine hundred and eighty about pigment stuff, right? And and he was actually working in a lab with john laz, who's one of the the fathers of exercise about chemistry and the sort the story goes, uh, he man came when he was a strength train and guy and was in almost all those initial exercise physiologist were conditioning folks, right? So it's almost always swimmer and runners.

And that's why a bulk of the exercise physiology historically has is shaped in that direction. And when those science is interested in so hit man was there in the lab, in the and the how much this is myths or not, where they knows. But so the story goes that this is sort of chipping back and forth.

And you know how from A P, I to post dog, and can that rising IT works a little bit? And eventually he was like, he got to start running with us. And he was like, he got start lifting with me and kind of goes back and forth, well, you know who wins that equation? It's not the post dog, right? So it's the P.

I gets in egga is okay, fine. So we started running with allows I and eventually started to realize i'm getting weak, i'm losing strength then I just can't. I think this bench, but specifically was going down and maybe it's squad I can't remember who knows it's even real.

But point is so is going on. And so eventually likes starts to create a little bit of animosity and it's like, actually all is good for me and a body. So they did what any good scientists to do and said, well, let's fine up right and so that he run really famous experiment where he took a group, three groups.

One group did a um in dance peace by the steady state cardio, one group did a string training piece and then the third group did both those work outs combined not like a reduction. So both both volumes stacked on top of each other and the results are fairly predictable in terms of the entrance group only have the greatest increases in view two max and enduring markers, the string training group of the greatest increases, most liberty. But where the interesting part was where this whole field started was the combined group.

This is concurrent training, is what is gently called. So you doing concurrent things. And typically that means high per to strength stack on top of some state.

state interns in the same work.

same work two hour blow or the same like week IT doesn't really I can be kind of this. Well, the concurrent group saw the same improvements in view two max as the entrance group and is like, well, okay. So the strength training did not compromise the enduring adaptations.

However, they saw much lower increases in drink and I erb. And so IT was the conclusion was the addition of endurance work compromised most growth and strength development. However, the addition of strength training to your endurance work will not compromise your enduring gains.

Now that second piece has been shown countless more times, right? So if we are darn sadly, adding strength training is almost always going to be massively beneficial. Very little chance of department.

When is why I read turns out there is going to have some sort of string and power component to their training. The controversy though came in the interference effects. So how much and dance training really blocks muscular development and for years, myself included, was we preached hard.

You don't do these two things at the same time. Um my friend, my college Kevin mark has has a really nice review cle jim e bagging those two guys. But the thing you go read that where they cover all these things, they've got some nice figures in there.

But the general answer here is interference effect is sort of real, but it's probably greatly overblown IT matters. So you've talking about a twenty minute jog, a conversation pace that's probably doing very little um with the assumption that are you doing an events c bed exercise like running or then you going to have more interference effect than cycling. That makes a thon a sense if you think about IT, right? What's your total energy enter?

If you're eating sufficient calories, you can still be an anal estate. If the addition of extra energy all really is, mark the cardio, put you in a negative energy status being, it's going to become very difficult to go. So those things matter.

Um if you're talking about doing like running a few laps or on the track a warm up like that's not in interference effect, but we're really talking about as a big volume performance consistently. Now after hit man came out of this Peter paper one thousand nine hundred and eighty people followed up in the ninety two thousand years with mechanism. And we started to look and see, we started to see, hey, there is a self signal pathway that goes down to called m tour.

And that's what leads to muscle growth. And then on the other side of that equation is a think of M, P, K, which is more society with my country, robo genocide and turns. And there's a little molecule between, at the time most people would point to T, S C two.

Well, turns out M, P, K activation is fine. If you activate m tour has no bearing on M P K. But if you activate M P K, going to activate T, S C two, which in hybrid mr.

And so IT was like, we had practical outcome. I eat hpen. You're gonna get weaker. Now we had mechanism, so that story became very, very strong at this interference effect. And this is how science should work, right? When you see mechanism match up a practical human outcome.

so strong we want. He was still .

wrong down IT. He just took more science, right? This is why we always have to give science a Better a time, and you you have to be willing to to follow, right? And again, even me in the field who has a practical background and science, I felt very strongly this is a big problem.

I just in turn to be the case enough studies came out where i'm like, okay, it's probably not that big deal unless the set the movement is heavily inset place volume is very high, you are trying to maximize muscle growth and energies is not controlled. If that's not all the case, interference effect is probably not something most people should worry about. Now when you especially when you compare that against the well roundness that you need for total biogen health, probably not a big deal.

Very reassuring for me here because I do enjoy lifting weight and I really enjoy running and I love running outside. I believe I used to experience the interference effect when I I used to do a very long run on sundays. I would just go out for, you know, two, or sometimes like that.

I don't know that I ate enough for, who knows? I always feel like I enough for more. I love to eat. But that long sunday run always made IT hard for me to make progressive gains and strength and have petr phy in the gym, where, as when I cut that to thirty minutes three or four times a week, I don't see any interference effect at all, probe very well, and I haven't trained specifically for endurance in a very long time. So I don't I haven't to experiences the non interference the fact which as you said before, most, if not all under and athletes probably are they should be doing some sort of strengths, were just to keep .

the so um so what are some .

protocols that people could explore for continuous international training? I mean, I ve thrown out this hundred and fifty, one hundred ninety minutes zone to cardio. That's really the actually, really the kind of kindergarten of endurance. And there are ably being generous by the nursery school of endurance that everyone should do. What sorts of other protocols I realized I can be very goal directed but is IT unreasonable, for instance, for somebody to do um four hours of of continuous international training with intervals in there as well to get that kind of all around heart health. And the ability to go long distances .

to this two is the very first one to tackle the the long duration dances. However, for of IT, um you ask really about heart rate zones um to me that's almost totally a vant IT doesn't matter, right? If you're moving, you're moving that's that's the function of piece here um if you want to push IT and go at a long conversational pace that has tremendous health benefits, if you want to do IT a little bit slower, fine.

If you are at th Epace w here y ou c an h ave a c onversation t o m e, I don't even count that as exercise. It's not it's not a majority, by the way, um that is just general physical movement. And IT is extraordinary ly clear.

You need a lot of that. You need a lot more than than we get. You can do this in a couple of efficient ways, just taking your phone calls, moving if you got a thirty minute call every day or most days the weekend, you can do that while moving. You've checked not that whole box, but a pretty good chunk of IT.

And that could even be done inside casing, back and forth.

And a big picture. You probably w me like I walk up and down all over the place. Most of the time when I in my office working, I come, i'm shadow boxing. I come to an air square, not even intentional.

I'm just like, do those tread meals under the dust like every .

lab I ever came through?

Somebody did we do an episode on the workspace optimization and the date on those trade meals? Yeah, pretty interesting. They definite increase alertness, which for obvious reasons, even a little bit of movement is going to generate, no, a little bit of a gentle, so passing around, moving, taking calls, moving, getting walks when you can.

And then in terms of building and dirt, I say somebody wants to and get in the Better shape. Um they already may or may not already have some size and strength that they're happy with and they just wanted get in. They want to improve their health. You so when does that hundred and fifty hundred eighty things tick over into a different protocol?

Yeah okay. So I think the way that I can not line a weekly schedule, this as a conception model here um that long gration stuff is not even counting, as I mentioned, right, is just say, this is what you need to do with human for we have an if you're extremely unfit, you may see some changes in cardiology alth. For the most part, this is just knocking out the general physical practice you need to be are are functioning.

So whatever that time domain is not really care. Um it's it's not a huge concern of mine. Well, I think you need to hear of these nodes. You need to do something once a week that kids you do a maximum hrt. Now I don't have to literally mean max, but close.

This means really sucking for really like as .

high as you can possible get you can wear a hearting moor if you want the maximum high rate that the rough equation we say is two hundred and twenty minus eight. So if you're forty years old, your maximum heart rate is probably about one hundred and eighty beats per minute. Now I can tell you flat out right now um my max rate is close to ten, which means i'm ten years old.

So take that number with a grand assault. I have had a bunch of profession athletics who in their is and their max heart rate one seventy five, and they are way Better shape than I am. So maximum heart rate is not a good proxy for physical fitness.

It's a rough number, an easy way to do this. If you have a Harry monitor, anything like that, do the hardest work out you can possible do see with the highest number you get as and soon that's close. That's if you want to just started two twenty stage, that's fine too. Do something, know where you're like, yep, this is death like this is really, really chAllenge how however long that takes you that can be a thirty second go on a airline or area or bike that could be a um uh do one of those things where you can like sprint run as hard as you can do are in the straw away on a track and .

corner classes training. We talk about IT in P. E. class. We had to change. And if you didn't bring running shoes, you had to do IT Better. Foot, oh, I love and I love your teacher. Yeah I wasn't a we are foobar best ball baseball teams weren't that good but um anything like running across country just because where I grew up brutal, brutal coaches so that yeah they make the the orchids .

do these runs yeah so we can be in the the thirty probably seconds at a minimum is is hard to get you to a true hard rate max in sure than thirty seconds. You can get the total sock in under twenty seconds. But getting to a true heart, a maxes is probably going to take more than thirty seconds. So IT doesn't really matter what you wanted. Do IT can be uh gna sprint up hills IT could be what you're talking and that could be burpy to death like what .

whatever you want to do component yeah yes.

no question about IT.

But if you did to actual death, by the way.

if you did, did i'm going to do as many birds? Ece, I can for ninety seconds. IT probably want to be much long in that to get close to.

So once a week get to max array touch IT.

I love IT touch IT, it's not the best but IT IT work.

And what are the specific benefits that, that provides?

okay. So earlier our and our chat, we we outlined the real specificity specific adaptation post man, if you're never getting to that high of a place, you're never IT would be like trying to get stronger, but only going to sixty percent. So every cardiff askar adaptation that occurs with cardiff askar training is to simply going to get to the top end by doing this.

So if you just start at the heart itself, stroke volume increases the amount of blood that kick out per contraction, a cardiac output, resting heart rate. If you go to the theatre function you're talking about night of oxide release and theo health in general um capital market country always down like he just walk through the whole system pollenz exchange to the lungs. All of those are going to benefit by .

being chAllen to their maxim, right? So um stress is what .

causes adaptation, right? So if you push your okay here's the difference. If you did twenty five minutes of steady state, you're not chAllenging the same thing as what we just talked about um the way that I explain this is if you understand the point the point of physiological failure, then you understand the place of adaptation that's IT. So if you and I both go run on a we did both did a view to max test. So classic view to max test is gonna eight twelve month and it's gonna something like this.

We're onna get in a tread mill and we're going to run and every minute i'm going to to slightly increase that trade mail either the speed of the grade most of time is the speed, right? So we get to a high grade, say ten percent grade or something, and then we go five thousand hour, five point, two, five point, four, five point. And we just go until you can go any longer.

Now let's say, you, I did that and we had the same exact time frame and so we both went eight minutes um the time you last is not the thing that we care about, right? The volume of water that you breathe out is what determines that. So well, I think with the same time to main and we have the same view to max to say there are both fifty military per kilogram per minute, which is like a okay number, but that's not to be extremely proud about.

Just because we have the same number does not mean we have the same point of physiological failure. And this matter is because it's going to answer, what do I do about IT then question, right? So if you got off and and I started asking, you see the questions and you like, and I basically said, why you quit, what did you job off the treatment? Why do you stop? And you were like my chest.

I I couldn't catch my breath. I thought my heart was gonna. Plod, okay, great, if you ask me. And I said my legs were on fire, like, was reading hard, but I couldn't take another step. This is a very rough indicator of different places physical ological disruption.

Now what i've seen a lot with my professional athletes, especially like fighters, they attend, they're going to generally fail on their legs because they don't often do a lot of streng training in the legs. They don't do a lot of leg work. They're fighting on their back literally a lot or on top on their knees.

So their legs tend to give out before there. Someone who feels in the cardiff asked system like say you did a lot of leg training. Typically I going to turn something whose that's not be the issue is, is going to be there going to reach a heart rate and ventilation to us all that they can no longer handle.

If I put you on exactly train protocols, it's not to be effective because. You are going to always fail your legs, and they're going to always fail at their kind of Oscar system. I need to flip that right.

You need to put you in a position where you can reach a true heart, rather manual tion chAllenge, while your legs are still hanging in there um or the upset so the training protocol is based on that point of failure. Um the adaptation is in the same thing. So if you are fAiling because of your legs, then you might see a greater increase in capitalization and your legs relatives to somebody who fAiling in their um kind of asking system. Let me see a greater change in and something on that side of the equation so that IT matters how you are fAiling at times.

What I love about this is that is its sounds like it's like a thermometer for where one is weaken needs work, but also provides a stimulus to improve the very thing that you need, you need reported. So, just get real breast tax about IT IT would be once a week。 okay? Yeah, nineteen ninety seconds near maximum heart rate. I do more five or six, those ninety second belt.

No, can you can IT as long as you touch that max heart of good right? Ideal world.

probably ford eight in that .

single session idea. Okay, right? If that takes you twenty seconds or ninety seconds, it's fine. Um if you want to do thirty on thirty off, you want to do twenty on forty eight, forty and twenty, those numbers don't matter.

And is there an interference effect of this on the other source of .

train that we've talked actually tends to be complementary there is the the evidence available suggests that this high interval stuff is is more likely to be complimentary type. Try training. I'm probably because I acted um and some other cool things um which are very beneficial molecules that people understand.

They they think it's bad. It's actually a hugely beneficial thing. Um IT can be interference. I can provide difference if calories are not account for rests, not account ign things but in general it's it's probably okay. Um I wouldn't add IT to your equation if you don't need IT for maximum hyper trip y but for the person who wants to to get well round of physiology, the w hesitate to do these even in the same session or different sessions.

terrific. So in if that's done once a week in the hundred fifty, one hundred eighty minutes or so of zone two cardio has done, you know in the rest of the week, persons doing their strength and hypertension training, we would hope what other sort of endurance practices could won incorporate, you mention muscular endurance, like the ability would like a wall sider the ability to a plank. Is that, is that? Is that useful for anything?

Yes.

doing planks and walls said.

no, it's extraordinary ly useful to hold on muscles. I want to finish one more thing on this side. So if we're building this week of endpoint, um once a week hit that number, if you can do repeated belts we talked for to eight, that's fantastic.

If you can't muscle the the if you can't manage the mental energy every week, do every other week, it's still very good, right? Because I I get IT like i'm a working person too. Is sometimes you just like I can not like those workouts feeling incredible afterwards, but man, they are daunting.

If you love this stuff, you could do at four times a week. If you hate IT, though, it's not realistic to think you're going to be able to knock this out. You're going to end up doing seventy, eighty percent, which is not going to get you the benefit. So you really have to hit that. You got to get up there close.

have someone chase. I always say, you know, the when doing this this kind of work in my mind, i'm thinking that i'm easily being chased by somebody with with a strange for of poison yeah. And while there are other ways out of the situation and for the benefit of what we're talking about, the one i'm referring to is to just run yes.

my motivation is typically if you just get this done, we're done in a couple of minutes, just get done. Like, don't go here for you gonna do IT and show up, check in and over really quickly.

Breathing down regulation after .

one hundred percent, you have to, right? It's easy. Huge key. So if you absolutely can do, do IT every way that twice month, give me twice month can be done on the road, can be done twenty minutes, like to a really good throw warm up.

Don't just jump in to those, by the way, right away. It's not going to be as benfica. Al, really nice, good sweat broke a really good warm up, and then give me four minutes of hard work and were done right, get out there. Um if you want to use like a bath or hot thermal stress to kind of like a and a warm t process, fine as on a hot back again, really hot, get up there, warm up, knocked out, whole thing is twenty minutes plus five years breathing.

I'm anna. Start doing this is so.

But you got a bike right there?

No, i've got alt every every, every room in the studio that has a different ece of equipment that seems so.

I want that once a week, released every week. I do. I want that physical activity, peace on everyone, long ation thing I deal. You'll do as much of that through your nose.

Oh my, you not to do the inertial stuff that knows only you don't don't even try but if you can go that whole thirty minute time or twenty or forty minutes whatever is going to be um that's actually a good way to regulate intensity. So because horry you can while still being able the breath there, he knows only if you have to open up your mouth a little bit fine, but try to stay there. What you'll see is, very quickly, you'll be able to increase your work output.

Well, just breathing through your news, which has a bunch of other beyond benefits. The other piece I want is this middle ground, which is, can you sustain hard work for eight to twelve? Maybe a little four minutes.

I'll give you four to twenty 2 minutes。 This doesn't have to be quite as high as the first one. You don't have to get to heart in max.

But can you get somewhere in the eighty percent range? And can you hold that for four minutes? Maybe give me two minutes, two minutes arrest, and do that twice, something like that.

I ideal situation is what a runner will do is, like, will call mile repeats, because are running four, five minute miles, whatever time IT takes them to finish, they get to rest that. So the one to one work rest you. So five minute mile, rest five minutes and go again. That's probably pretty unrealistic .

for a lot of folks. Well, the five minute part is unrealistic for most folks, for me would be you eight minutes, eight minutes, fine. Probably something like that.

Well, in your particular case, just do the eight hundred meters. So do eight hundred meters. Do something that takes two to six minutes to work.

Um IT is a lower intensity than the max, but is a much higher workload that is probably gone to give you, you might even argue, the most kind of asking benefit because that is sustained work output, and that's very critical. But the downside of kind of like that conversational pace, it's physical activity, its movement, it's blood flow, is the feat training. It's not very cardiff chAllenging them. You're you're just not going to get an optimal health from just walking actively. So two to six minutes.

hard work of hard work with them, an equivalent amount of rest in between and then repeat how .

many times once, if you have to, if he needs to be one rapid, if he needs be a six minute thing, and then down regally breed twice, if you can do that six times, eight times, like whatever, whatever you can really do. And you can just take that. There was long of the training session as you want or short um exercise choice could be with everyone.

So again, you can do slight pushes or could be a cable circuit or any combination of things. We are just you're working and you're not giving yourself and break. You have got to be able to hold on at a very high waste product production level as well as a high demand for energy, and then bring IT down. And breathing during .

this two to six minutes of a hard output is mainly through the nose or combination nose and mouth is detecting too technical well is probably .

like I like IT but technical um you're going to try to maintain long as much you can but you to lose IT at some point um you go through their brian and and rob gear system and learn and then you can say got to see what gear to be in if you have to go nose and mouth out or something like that. But I don't really care too much honesty in a range i'm getting most my needs only stuff at night and training and everything.

So if you have to open up the throat there to get the work done, that's okay. Oh then they will actually go to your answer your question, which is musical dance to go back that musical dancing is incredibly important for general maintenance of joint health and other words, um you have got foreign lows function right is a very classic science cy physiology saying meaning you've got a couple of different there's a bunch. But to make IT easy, two different types of muscle fibers, fast twitch and slow twitch switch fibers, tend to be, but they are not always bigger.

They contract to the high velocity. That's why they are called fast, which but they tend to be more cyclic. And the fatigue slow twitch are tend to be smaller.

But not always. There are more packed minor country. They were gently Better burning fats, fubar contracts, low velocity.

Well, we have these two type so that we can regulate function more. You have some muscle groups that we're going. So I will go back up a quick second.

Each individual muscle and human body has a combination of some amount of fast and some amount slow. That percentage of fast or slow differs from muscle and muscle. So IT also differs person to person.

Easy example is your cafe muscle. There, there's three, but there's two primary muscles in your cafe. Once come the solid, once a gas drug, these, the gas rock is the wonder if you take your toe and point IT told your face and then flex.

That's the one that pops out on on the media side. The inside, the solis will call an anti gravity muscle. And IT is generally about eighty percent to ninety percent slow twitch. And that's because it's supposed to be contracted lightly all time. This will be ond permanent.

It's it's meant to keep you we call the antigravity because it's meant to keep you erect up and moving your spinal rectors supposed to do this various muscles for postal or are generally slow to muscles, so also be on all times. Not produce fast, not produce force, but don't get tired. The gas rock is the opposite. It's not activated very often. Able when is activate is is meant for extreme propulsion.

This gives us the ability to reach up and scatter high ball and also punched somebody, right? We have to be to regulate force output, which is going back to anyone, right? Controlling what we use when we don't use, while also not waste energy, which is the the downside of the activating a big threal motor known as IT requires a ton of energy, the more efficient motive energy, but the total amount is really, really high.

So muck and turns is going to help those slow twitch muscle fibers and slow twitch predominant muscles maintain their working job. So if you lose your muscular and dance ability in your spinal rectors or your cafe, you're going to start slumming into bad positions. You're gonna getting on, putting joints in, in a movement pattern that they're not going to be the most happy with.

So is more than about than being to just maintain two minute squad is about maintaining joint integrity and allowing that moscow ure to not fatigue when you ask you to do heavy and fast. So what I mean, but that is you've got a whole combination of muscles in your shoulder, and we will generally call this like the rotator cuff muscles. Well, let's imagine those slow to which postal muscles get fatigue and they start to lose contract our attention, and then you go to do something heavy or fast or emerge situation.

Those are already prepared gue. You're gona rely more upon the fast muslims bs, which are there less for postal integrity? You're likely to get out a position.

And this is a whole recipe of like that one is my shoulder is hurting, come my back. That's very often, in the case of the sota ch fibers, the sodium muscle groups losing muscle interns. So you need to build up, back up so that they can control and hold the join in the position. So the faster virus, because in contracted force.

i'm hoping that what i'm onna saying next meets a what you said accurately. My experiences that getting injured, a lifting weight or even doing housework, ker yard work almost always happens when i'm napping, attention fatigue that's kind of obvious, but also getting in position to initiate a movement, setting down away or lifting weights off the rack or or picking up dum bells that almost always when I seem to activate this lower back thing that happens every know six, eight months.

And what you're saying, if I understand recent, is that this muscular endurance from wall sets or planks or things, so that what may be, give us a few other examples of these can help us because they actually prepare the system to do what we Normally think of is the more intense work. So it's really the IT sounds like it's really the architecture of the of the body includes nerves and muscles. Everything also course that lets the limbs and another kind of action end of the body do its best work. Yeah expresses .

on power and force. We've actually landed on one of my final laws of strength condition, which is similar to what I settle. Er right so I said exercises do not determine adaptations.

Application a german that apis what sounds similar? What is quite different. There are no good or bad exercises. There's only good or bad application. Here's a great example of that, right? So you do not get hurt dead lifting because dead lives are dangerous. You only get hurt dead lifting because you either got a bad position, you you got bad position because you you're started in bad position, which is one of things you just said, or you ended up and bad position. You did too much volume, you did too much intensity, or you did too much complexity.

Those last three things all hurt you because the result in the first one, which is out of position, or another way to think about this is, is not like a visible change in position, is stress got put into a part of the system that should not absorb that much stress. So you did too much of IT. You did IT too heavy.

You got fatigue. And so you broke position. You got too heavy.

You broke position. You you made the exercise too complex. You put too many moving parts in IT. You put too many joints in IT, and you got out a position. You did that too many times over time.

Now we've LED there in a cute injury, bam, you know, back pops and you fall the floor, or is like, man, as things is hurting over time, all these are result the same thing. So you cannot ever blame the exercise for causing the problem is always either the user or the coach. You programmed way too much here and I can't handle that position or you yourself went into IT too much.

So if you're getting a little tweak and and problems going on, you've made an error in one of those things. So simply back off, reduce the complexity right um give yourself more stability, less moving parts, do less volume, do less intensity. In fact, if you look at the people from the physical therapy world in terms of the pain literature, it's very clear that just stopping a movement is very rarely to work.

What you wanted was back off all way down to just below the threshold of that's what aggravate IT. And you want to train right there. That's going to allow you to do two things.

Number one, tissue tolerance and the number two, desensitization. A lot of pain stuff, and you can probably speak a lot about this is special things like low backspin is there's not necessarily often much damage. There is a lot of hyper cent titians ation of just paint sign pain signal.

Omitting the movement entirely does not get that signal ago. Why you need to train just below that signal N D sensitised. So you want to make sure that the musical and dance allows you you just putting volume right below where you start to get a tweak. And IT is beautifully affected for that.

I've experienced this right side, lower backpack for years, sometimes shooting down the hip. The two things that really helped you were doing entire tib work. So you have heads off to knees over toes. Sky and Patrick has create a lot of popularity around yeah tip work.

But I turns out joints following motion.

you're a Better spot. Yeah, something about stabilizing the stuff from the knee down helped my back. And then also some some network and friends of minor always teasing me that my dream is filled with the the most bizarre equipment doesn't look like any other gym.

A lot of is just designed to keep me healthy, still training. But I love this idea of getting ride the below the threshold of pain activation and not simply going to complete non action or just taking completely risk as that actually can be detrimental. I'd love to talk about a few items that support training of all kinds in where there is a lot of confusion in indeed, misconception in mystery.

And just get your take on these. And and I just wanted acknowledge the outset that for some of these, there's a lot of science. For some of them, there's less science, but there's certainly is a lot of experience in in your camping and those categories. Ies are cold, heat and hydration because obviously, whether not you're running or whether not you're strange training, you are human being a you need to hydrate.

But in terms of work output and physical work output, maybe you can cognitive output maybe to tackle hydration first there is what what I call and what I think is now come to be known as that the girl pin equation yeah which um you really do deserve credit for because I think that people um realized that there are range of solutions out there, but there is a really A A desperate need for um straightfor d solutions that worked for seventy five percent of people, seventy five percent of the time. So hydration is key. Maybe you could underscore just how how key IT is for us and then what is the open equation, as I call IT, and I think .

others are now referred to IT. Yeah okay, benefits of hider ation flash consequences of, uh, mish yd ration. So where's dehydration though? You you this energy has our metic curbs.

My native city, we think about this system of toxicology. What this means is, at some point giving you a dose of something up testoon. Very used example, if you are clinically deficient or low testosterone, and I gave you a little bit, and IT brings you back in the Normal range.

You generally see an improvement and health and functionality taking you, though from Normal to super high doesn't always necessarily provide additional benefit. In fact, if you have to go, it's going to provide determent, right? So everything has its current.

And then some things are home made express's, which means like a small, short, fast insult is actually beneficial because you come back bigger, faster, stronger. That's how adaptation works. Basic misses, okay, addition is the same way.

So at the end, the court here, if you are under hybrided, we all know you could die, right? You have to have things. In fact, um water is the thing that is ubiquitous across biologies in terms of every living thing has to have IT.

There's no other viable in mineral nutrition is required among all living things with the exception water so that should give you a pretty good indication of its important thing right? Like you got to to have this thing down here, the bottom, if you're dehydrated, I give you more its beneficial effects. However, if you're up the top ready, and I continue to give you more water past.

Now we run into actual problems, and we can give what's called to happen a trivium which is more common than people realize. Um nature me a being actually not referring the water but the the sodium concentration being too low. And you have probably talked about that a length of of White, that's an issue.

Um if sody potash baLances inside outside a sell come off, you hard stops, right muscle contraction ends ah and all these things so so you don't want to be over or underhanded rated. So understanding the this rough equation I so of loosely calculated one day is helpful for that. Um I think the most contexts is talking about how much water to drink throughout the day and how much water to drink during exercise.

So the very easy answer is half your body wake nounce ces per day is a very loose guideline for total amount of lude consumption. So you wait two hundred pounds aimed for one hundred downes of water to get a very easy number. If you hit that, you're probably about ninety percent.

You are a good ninety percent of the time alone. If you then go to exercise, you need an account for that full of loss with exercise. And in general, you want to consume one hundred and twenty five percent to one hundred and fifty percent of the amount of weight you lost in fluid. Other words, if you worked out and you were two hundred pounds naked, and you and did you work out, and then you dried off and you wait yourself again, and now your hundred ninety eight pounds, you lost two pounds of water as thirty two answers, you want to drink back about a hundred and twenty five percent of that. So I said to drinking thirty two answers, I want to drink forty two, forty five like something like this. Because all the reasons why is, unless you're drinking something that is isotonic, meaning the same exact concentration in your blood and that you're in your fluid, you're just going to go closer that hya tremor, you're gna get a bunch of barrow flexor responses and you're going to actually think you have too much fluid and gonna unit out.

What if not not weaning myself before and after workout and is there a short hand version of this that you, after training for an hour, I should drink at least once, assuming is at at taller you, i'm not sweating super heavily .

yeah in a particular case, you could probably go something like if everyone the world did twelve to twenty answers, that's probably like pretty decent and they're .

probably doing that yeah yeah. And what about electoral likes consuming salt, potassium?

But that thing only works though, if you're coming in at opt hydration. And this is a problem. This is why you have to you have to flag this, starting with a good total daily metal water. Because if if you're coming in and you're like, oh, I drink two or three glass of water day, then you might we need to drink fifty or six ounces post workout because you are way behind so that like all twelve houses are so works. If you're are already generally very well .

hydrate and if people are drinking, you know four to six glasses of water day, but they're also drinking a lot of caffeine in any form, then they are going to be extreme more water in most cases, right? Well, because caffeine a diabetic okay.

kind is but kind isn't either. It's not the dialectic that we use to think about IT as um IT is still fluid consumption. So it's only a dialogic if IT is more flu than actually was being intake.

So um if caffeine intake is in a Normal range, I don't I don't have to worry about the direct effects. If someone is drinking twelve cups of coffee a day, we're going all there are taking cafe in pills or something. Now the exchange is going to outkast k the coverage.

So no problems, right? Because there's no fluid consumption with the cafe in pill. So in general, things like tea consumption, like I am not super worried about those things. You can count those torture total flow and take if you want.

So I feel like I drink sixteen ounces water plus twenty answers of coffee and then know this is like you to add that all up and you're going to be totally okay. So natural for he also have problems with sync forms of caffeine was natural forms of caffeine. Natural forms are, are are pretty okay. That form is where IT gets tricking always like I always right so general to eat real food and thanks, you can be just fine. On the last piece to consider is your diet quality matters because um the fluid content in your food can vary wildly.

So something like a ball um might be you know five ten percent water or something like a watermelon in is ninety eight percent ninety five percent something in a huge range, even meat is very high percentage a fluid and take that gets really high even if you cook IT, there's still a lot of fluid in there. So if you're eating a whole food, mostly whole food based diet, your original hydration is actually pretty high already just from your fluid. If you're eating a very highly process dehydrated oversample ted diet, you have your way low on hydration, just in your food.

So you have to fact, or all these things in the fact, one of things that happens to us constancy with folks I go from me like highly process, low quality diet to a high quality one, is that just they're just being on stop and like what they are going on. What you actually have brought in sixty didn't as the water in your diet relative to what you use to have, and you've gone from ten grams sodium there to four to two, sometimes, one sometimes get a very low because you're not like salt. Are you solving your food? No, okay.

Well, we don't have. So you and take them like we're way down. So everything that were considering is based on that. So let's assume someone's eating A A pretty well baLanced diet at their drinking sixty and the water, maybe coffin coffee and tea, things like that. Um we don't exactly know the other amount of sodium want and take IT is very clear.

High sodium concentrations are still associated with a lot of negative health outcomes, especially in combination with port physical activity, in combination with low food quality and all the accommodation ties. That's a very bad thing. You need to be very careful about those things.

Um if everything else is okay, we're okay playing with a little bit higher assault. In fact, you're probably going to feel Better. You feel generally pretty good. Um you IT seems to be very clear, if you are overweight, highly stressed and you don't have a lot of these things take off and you have known coral abilities, you really need to pay attention, assault and take you can be very nasty um so that being said, what we're generally going to look at folks is are you at least coming category you as a low sodium or high sodium? If so, there's a whole list of electrodes you can look on. They are gonna something like two hundred and four ign milligrams per serving and there's a whole these these things um if your low sodium sweater you're unable to send after two of those, if you're a high sodium, so whether there's a lot of electrons lets that are closer to six and eight hundred, even even a whole ground um per single serving size. So you want to play with that.

Do you know your low sodium or high sodium? So whether we actually have an episode salt, we put out that um where is coming out soon if I in come out already which is um you know when you look at a hazard ratio, you're sault and take basically your probability of really bad things happen to you goes way up as you get towards you know a lot of sodium and taking a ten, twelve grams today and and this is translate the tastes of salt that but also very low sodium intake is a problem.

No, it's not a perfect you shape. It's kind of A J shaped or over a kind of hokey stick shape, more less. But how would I know if i'm a low sodium or high sodium? Sa, yeah. Would I just like my sweat or have .

some you can you can find a super friend to look your sweat for you same how no .

willing volunteers that i'm aware but would I be able to tell .

yeah um you can get so what has been done actually have A A number of options um the kind of the original one most of us using the background for many years called level in um they'll send you out a little pat where that and in the lab and they'll measure directly lab cena, back hundred fifty boxer has been you into low.

medium and high.

They're y're going to do that but are going to give they're going to tell you exactly the billionaire and they're going to actually tell you like what products is stuff um that they are exactly matched.

do you with professional .

we have many times, yes um you can do a more consumer great version. Gar aid has a patch for twenty five box. You can get two of them.

You can put that a patch on your left for ARM and down all the gator up and you can do IT work out measured right there and click IT over and i'll tell you exactly nona ly, high, low. But again, i'll tell you the milligrams of sodium that are in your sweat and and you can figure out, again, kind of high, medium. I do .

much Better on a slightly higher sodium intake, but in my cover, hard. I do eat by hard on one of those that pretty moderate, but I try clean food. So I i'd notice and I tend to be a slightly low blood pressure. So again, to generate that, the warning there that if somebody is prehaps potential or hype potential, A, B, C, really, do you need to be careful with your sodium intake. But many people seem to find that they feel Better when they increase their sodium and taken, they're still in that healthy portion of the most.

Most of the athletes are take, in general, we're gonna higher insult when they come word on the stuff, and we're going to insult almost very few times. Have I gone? We need to cut this back.

One of the exception, the ones that come in that eat like porting erles. I am like OK. You're fifteen milgram or fifteen grams today because you're eating nothing but garbage. So we're like .

we're going to come down.

You going to feel way Better and all this bloating and everything else is going to happen go down. Um you can do that. There are actually more there are biosensors that are coming out. Um they are not available yet, but they are coming very soon in this space. They are going to give you real time metrics on um salt so you can pay attention to those. Um I haven't seen when to use one personally so I don't want to um this spouse about how good or bad IT is, but I know that those are coming a firm handful of companies. An easy way to do is just look at um where hat or where are some sort of headband or something and do your work out take off if you see a just dude White band or if it's completely clear and that's going to tell you big White band, you're probably a high salt water completely clear, very little coming up.

That's great. And now I can see that the post on instagram now people showing their their salt band from from sweating yeah, I I see salt is so essential for so many physiological functions. You don't want to no, but if you're losing more makes sense if you would need to take in more.

So half of my body way in answers as a just foundation of of fluid intake, coffee and t could be included in that, but that should probably mostly water thing, similar to IT. what? And then during exercise, the, how do I want to think about this again? If let's let's am a high salt output, then i'd want to drink maybe forty anounced water with or more .

yeah okay i'll i'll do this easy um let's talk about pre and impose right? So what to drink free? If you if you come in having hit these rules, you're OK and.

Workout can be as little as like five or six hands, basically a couple sips of water fine um if you come in poorly hydrated than you maybe need to go more like twelve. But here's the deal. If you start off a session in a bad spot, you're not gonna a catch back up like you.

You just, you're, you're in trouble. Let's say you come and you did. You fall the direction. Five hundred. Milgram, salt, four. Five hundred.

Milgram, after a very easy rule, a pick whatever resource you want that a couple of sprinkles of tablets. T if you want him milland, that's fine. You have to him.

Miles, actually fairly low sodium insult. So it's not the best for for this purposes. Um if you're higher, soldiers sweat a little bit more.

If you want to go, choose an electrical of which there are infinite um you can look on the packet and i'll tell you know, two hundred fifty milligrams s preserving or four hundred, six hundred or whatever happens we go around five hundred. Five hundred poses a very general rule and enduring is thanks to you, my famous group in equation. Now that is, is all over the world all my day.

As I took the litter turn, I said, okay, in general, the research shows pretty clearly two milligrams per kilogram body way to fifteen men. IT seems to be a pretty good spot. Most people don't think about kilograms or military. So can I just run that over? And that turns out it's about your body way divided by thirty analysis like that at all.

You have to exactly right.

So you two hundred pounds divided by thirty and that number bounces. You don't want to go every fifteen.

twenty minutes. So i'm getting that amount every fifteen to yep, twenty minutes throughout the training and now in the waiting room. That's pretty y to do because there are arrest in ervy. But you people will need to do this while running or cycling and that can cause a little bit gas distress if you're not used to IT is right. You you can learn to run with with some water in your belly.

one hundred percent. The gut is very trainable and a lot of directions. But in terms of fluid as well as carbon yd, which is another thing that is going to get people um but that they are very trainable.

It'll be uncomfortable initially, but you you quickly get into IT. The Better solution for those folks just come in hybrid and you might not even in the water, you could probably perform just fine. Um so the ones that don't have as much of an opportunity, you really have to emphasize walking in. Um we have this problem with like professional golfers.

There are plenty of time to drink water, but there so focused on the shot and there's a lot of variables coming up once to hit they're shot and moving out of the next one they're thinking about, I mean, the going over score card of hundred and eighty five yards away, can I go one hundred and eighty four and half of yards? Going to go around six years. What's slow with that? With the wind up here was the wind up there was is like this, they just thinking and they just forget, even though they have four and a half hours.

So we have to make sure that they immediately gain off the course. We go right in the recovery as hard as we possibly can. They wake up the next morning on a good spot.

We crush recovery. And now, okay, if you can remember to drink this, great. If not, we're still fine.

If it's not a big deal and you have time like a lifter because I deal with that problem fighters too, like I we can only drink so much in the modal fight. A couple ships out there here we can call mixing two million IT. Like can you get a couple sips and yet, oh, I forgot, like it's not gonna en.

So we have to take more emphasis before after so started your recovery process immediately and then come in the next day that's your window. And then whatever you can get in during the workout, that's fine too if you're a higher salt sweet thirty one, five hundred, five hundred, maybe go seven fifty, seven fifty. If you have a longer about of exercise and especially hot um or humid, then you might want to consider some salt in the workout as well.

And three hundred million graphs there are no work out totally fine. Um it's enough. If this is a really long workout and it's really hot, you're gonna lose pounds during IT. You need a specific strategy.

If you're going to lose less than a pound, you don't know worry about IT, you're going to be IT is not going to be enough of the department you to really care. So that's a kind of a rough rule. Now if you're two hundred plus pounds, maybe that number moves from one pound and two pounds. But really the number will look at is what one percent of your body weight, if you're losing more than one person of your body weight, we need start caring if it's less than one percent is not can really paid that much of a difference.

okay. So for myself um because I don't get super technical, don't wear any devices besides a risk watch thanks. I like yeah do the very attached to this watch is attached to me, I suppose um my .

body weight pounds divided by two.

that's what i'm going to try and get across the entire day um as a kind of baseline and then my body way pounds divided by thirty year during the workout yeah every fifteen or twenty minutes that i'm going to try and consume that amount. And then I definitely do Better when I increase him an assault that i'm taking in anyway five hundred to um a five hundred programs to a gram of salt several times a day.

Actually i'm not eating that often which he leads me to any other question which is um I prefer to train faster or semi fasted meaning first thing in the morning or within an hour two of waking went obviously in testing while I asleep or having not eating anything for three or four hours before I just feel lighter and like more, more energetic if that works for me. Is that okay or or should I try? Is IT Better to eat something before one trains?

Personal preference, easy, easy answer there. IT depends on, of course, how hard you trained well, the training was like what sport involved with how many total cost of such a but in general, personal preference for the average person.

that pro handles ninety percent of the questions about that cold, cold showers, ice baas and cold emersion up to the neck. I always preference by saying there are not a lot of studies, there are some but not a lot of controlled studies looking at cold showers because it's harder to control the variables of where people stand. So I would say if you have access to call emersion of some sort ice bath or call the merger, great.

But if you don't, call charges will be the next best thing. The lower goes that if you do an ice bath or cold water emersion after strengthened hypertrophy that you are short circling. Some of that the law also goes that cold showers might be OK.

And my interpretation of those data and that discussion is that all that is probably true. But I have a hard time imagining that the effects are so robust that IT can completely prevent strength gains and hydro y such that my dance for myself is trying to the cold exposure training away from the strength and hyperbaric training. But if you can't do IT any other time, right? Afterworld probably using going to throw my whole system out a walk and prevent the improvements in my deluding .

myself cup of caveats. You, number one, I say have a personal vest interest in code. I've ben around this up for a long time um being involved and being an adviser for X P T and being in the space a long time.

I'm a big believer in cold especially cold water delivered hundred percent right so that being said, uh, I do think getting into an ice bath immediately after a hypertext session is getting pretty closer. You just to done the session. IT is detrimental to know.

I wlink do. IT, I guess, is the most plant way to put IT. If you're like, hey, like I am not super concerned with growing muscle and I want these other things that come with cold water version, fine.

It's not a zero is not a zero. It's not taking new backwards. How much does that cut you down? I don't know. You don't know that, that i'll be a difficult number to come up with.

Um is IT one percent reduction? Know what's more than that? Is that a hundred not even close? I don't know where that lands though.

It's enough though for me to go. In general, best practices don't be nice. I mean.

after work out, how long should I wait?

Well, in theory, the best dance we can give you with before hours, because of what we talked about earlier today, of of going, okay, immediately you ve got the signal casket that takes seconds. You've got a good expression is happening in this rough for our window after the genes of gone off. And now you've just going to the protein sentences process the signals ready there and it's gone back down a baseline.

So then reintroducing are introducing cold here. It's not going to disrupt that signal. That's a very um non scientifically founded because we don't know at this point at all what is very clear.

Those if you get off your work out, go right in the eyes, it's probably ten percent a tanuki growth. I don't know. Maybe more depends on the person.

Some people, if you look at the individual data, it's pretty bad. It's enough to words like that. That's a really big deal. The benefits of the ice, I don't think now out way the benefits of the potty training.

What about cold showers?

I don't think cold showers gonna do much. Um you if you been in both, you know that this is like we're not on the same game here, right?

A nice bath or cold water or true cold water merge up to the neck with limbs in if for one to five minutes is a completely different stimulus than in the cold.

especially compared to similar trial, is not even the same same thing here. Um so in general, I would say, don't do those cold shower. I don't really care.

Can you work at all so they don't do them the same time? That would be my hope, right? Um I would actually prefer you do the call before if you really had to do IT um certainly .

will wake you up that burst.

We've play with that actually years ago um doing that um there's actually some fun, if you can, doing with the enduring peace with cold stuff. But it's it's totally engh feasible for most people because you get out your water everywhere, they can jump on your bike and just get shit. And it's the giants.

It's fun. But yeah I would say walk away from IT if you can. That's actually so where I stand based on the data um based on my intuition and and experience, I don't I don't is a good thing to do.

Now having said that, that's mostly concerned with maxim ing hypocrisy. Strength is not as clear. There are some data to show what actual box string adaptations. But because of what we talk about earlier, the mechanisms and the drivers are different.

And so I don't think it's as big a concern um for strange development though I would still genuinely say if you can get away with staying out of the eyes immediate after the workout and you can at least wait a few hours, that's the Better approach. Less concerned with strength, more concern of typography and terms of interference effect. Um if you can do IT on off days or more or any other time, that's that's the place to land.

That's generally when I tried to do IT just kind throwing out extreme case because I get to ask that question a lot. What about the use of ice baths, cold water emersion or cold shower after enduring training OK?

So a couple of interesting things here. You mentioned we don't have a tremendous ous mana data on cold water emersion overall. So a lot of this is moving.

Um there have been some papers to show that cold water merge can actually enhances manufacture biogenesis and actually even for enterance stuff, it's been shown to cause improvement and dance adapt tails relative to not it's not enough for me to be truly confident in that statement yet. I would like to see that repeated. Not not that I have a problem with the paper of the methodology if I use empty cr study, but this is a weird thing.

So I want to see this repeater more often. So I have less concern with doing IT immediately post and dance because you could even argue that there maybe some benefit. I don't think you need to get your way to try to make sure I immediately afterwards and thinking you're going to get some massive adaptation.

Um we use ice a decent amount when I can get happy to do IT, but this context is different. Number one, one word camp and we've got a world title fight coming up or something else. Um we've just pitched in in a major baseball game.

I am not concerned about our traffic. I am not even concerned of strength development. I am now pushing to our recovery.

There's a paradigm that I think is important with all these things to understand, which is are you pushing for optimization adaptation? When you are pushing for adaptation, you don't want to block the signal adaptation. This means less recovery.

You're not going to feel as good and you probably should be hedging towards stress when you're pushing for optimization. It's the opposite. So I if i'm in season and I had a picture, just throw one hundred and twenty five pitches.

I'm not trying to cause adaptation. I'm trying to recover as quickly possible because four days from now, we got to do this again and I got to do this across one hundred and fifty two games. Um I you're going to play six days, five days in A P G A off tournament and you onna have to do IT again every week for a bunch weeks in row.

I need recovery as fast as I pass began. So from blunting adaptation, fine, i'm not actually trying to do some of try to optimize. If you spend all of your time in one of those two areas, you're gonna have problems.

So you need to be judicious about thinking, is disappoint my life or training cycle that I want to cause adaptations? Or am I trying to optimize? He spent too much time. And when only other ones, again, you're gna have problems. So that's in generally how I will treat the ice for for all those adaptations .

about heat. Yeah when i'll frame this question differently because I am sure there are a number ways in which heat can short circuit all sorts of things. I mean, he in access can kill you.

Yes IT can shut down fertility. IT can um in access right IT can do all sorts of things. But I can also increase growth ormon increase visitation, improve one's ability to sweat, which can be very beneficial. And number of context for the typical for seventy five percent of people, seventy five percent of the time. When do you think keep is most useful? And here i'm referring to dry sonor webs ona, and not specifically talking about informed sona because the data there are a little unclear to me and I I don't even know that my sense with them for edit song as as they don't go hot enough .

for my particular taste. You and I have a similar taste there.

okay. Had interested right in my sense about informed that maybe haven't seen the data um but that a lot of people like IT because they like the way they look in the infrared on IT feels cool, feels like you're doing something unusual. Now infected lites are beneficial for other reasons actually for medicine, real health in the retina, good data. But infrared sona to me that never goes hot enough. So i'm talking about two hundred or harder, maybe one hundred and eighty two, twenty obviously what safe folks in heat, all the warnings about pregnant .

people not going in side .

in t water and hot water, hot, hot sona. When would you like when you think most people could leverage sona or hot bath to benefit their training and fitness and and health?

Yeah okay. I have a handful of things to say about this topic. One of them is you never have a hard time convincing people to get hot.

Everyone feels good. Like, yeah, can hot bath? Can you take more hot showers? sure. Like, no, a problem. They are right. There are handful of studies that have looked at this immediately post, and IT seems to even augment hyperdrive .

y so after hyper trip training, getting in the sona for twenty minutes.

yeah whatever whatever needs to be. We don't have a good time. What's the number minutes? While we don't have a temperature generation.

hot shower would would be a second. That would be a week.

Second best I would say, is a very week.

Take a hot bath.

I think a hot bath is probably a lot closer toward you looking for and actually kind goes back to our neutral conversations. Theoretically, you're just going to eden blood flow so you going to put more nutrient and more waste product out medical express all that officers going through. So that's the thought anyway, far from sense, plausible, right? Absolutely possible.

And something people will do feels good. Um I see with cold and heart I want to caution you against a couple of things. This is true across all physiology, but you need to be really careful about moving percentages from molecular to welcome. Very careful.

So for example, it's easy to see a paper um that says, okay, we put you in a hot bath or something and we saw growth hormone crease three hundred percent that is not according to result in three hundred percent increase in muscle size, right? In fact three hundred percent might result in absolutely no change in physical size, right? So the in the reason saying this is because a lot of people in the space that will misses ly the mechanisms and the grossly over estimate what these things can do and what they do do because you'll find something like that.

I mean, you know this you've got tell you work to in the lab, if I see m toward doubled um I think SHE didn't work. I need to see ten x increase before. I know it's even physico logically relevant.

So reading that paper, reading some social meeting people like why would increased m two or thirty eight percent unlike didn't work and you're like what a huge but that's not thirty eight percent increase in all so size. So that's a very important point want to make because I want to talk about the benefits here. Second, but um I I don't want I don't want people to be fooled into thinking that this is some crazy miracle.

Um the same thing with this, sam, in terms of general health, health outcomes, IT is a clearly a beneficial thing. This is a really good idea to get hot a lot. IT is not a substitute exercise.

Sl, it's a very important distinction. If the end, if the options are nothing or sona get in the sona, really, really good idea. If the exchanges, though, I don't need to work out because I did the sona bad. This is not a winning solution. You and I know .

some many axes that actually work out in the son.

We do. Yes, I don't necessarily .

recommend that. That actually would probably kill a large number of people. But IT can be work. IT can be worked up to yes, it's certainly yeah.

So I want every time I talk about that, I I flag that because it's just too easy. Here I go oh I think talk human said if I just get the song, I don't have to work out .

works now and i'm definite not working out in the if i'm they're sitting or lying down and i'm trying to make IT through, I tend to do three twenty minute belts yeah across the entire weekend. So I aim for sixty minutes .

per week yes.

exposure I I you are one of those yeah, he will do air squats. You'll bring the air time bike in there. I look at the song is kind of a time to .

get lazy and sort totally find going back your question. So potential the aid playing, we need to see more research on that to really get to do I. To put this in practice, I think if you try IT very little harm, I I strugling to see a downside if you make sure hydration on point. Right now you ve got a factor in the fact you just picked out to with three pounds of your you two hundred plus pounds assume, or roughly um if you're in the song for twenty minutes, I would imagine you can do two, three pounds.

Yeah usually i'm i'm hovered somewhere around to twenty five and I drink um I drink at thirty two hours right old to water with a electronic solution that's pretty high school afterwards and sometimes during yeah and sometimes after that, if I do IT late in the evening, i'll go to sleep and I wake up in the overnight just feeling so parched. It's amazing how much one losers in the .

sona I can Normal sweat rate for some two twenty five, especially in twenty minutes on A I would absolutely expect to do three pounds easy without be really more possible, even more water. Yeah you're probably half the water that you need to get.

And you mention the the possible benefits of doing after a strength Operator phy training, which are make sense for plausible mechanistic reasons and not no official data they are yet what about after enduring training, assuming somebody hydrates tes well and off and they're not overheated from their endings work? Could also be a benefit. Yeah well so more and more what i'm thinking the framework here is in an ideal world, one would train and then do sona yep or heat exposure some kind during training or strain type tory training and then do sa and then do cold exposure on off days or at least four hours away from the from any kind of training, or if you had to do IT close to train to do IT before training.

And I love cold the morning. We've actually run this experiment on professional athletes. So we do enough tracking with things like hrb, which is a global metric of over optique. okay. And you you probably talked about that before.

Bit problems, the roughly idea of over hrb in general, hire the score the Better, right? So low H V is fatigue, right? Well, if you wake up and take your hv in the morning and then you get in the ice was going to happen.

If you're going to see that number plumet the second you get out, that's going to fall off the years which means roughly you've moved into a sympathetic um place, surprising you get in thirty degree water. You're gonna very sympathetic very quickly. However, if you continue to watch your hrb for thirty, sixty, ninety and up to two, three hours post, you will generally see a and improve H R esco relative to you started.

So it's it's back to the thorax stress or right, a really cold shocking exposure will be a net result of you being more relax without the day in general. And we've seen that now very consistently across the years with without me. So so I think it's a great way to start today. Um you won't need nearly as much coffee after spending three minutes and thirty degree water.

Three degrees is pretty good. Don't cold. I was in the ocean this morning for about three minutes. They felt that bringing a their momma, but I felt like somewhere in the low fifties.

But fifteen moving is really cold. Yeah, what is moving? Yeah, right. That's really cold. That's right.

The thermal layer that that h surrounds you when you sit still in cold water emersion, i'm encouraging people now if they really, I was a joke that, you know, people like to look real stoic and tough when they're in there, like they're just grinding through no pain at all. But the stillness is actually reducing the the stimulus. If they shift around a little bit, you break up that thermal layer.

That's where the real action. We've joked about this for years, like two fifty degrees with a little jet on. Now impressed because that that is hard. You said in thirty five, grieve for three minutes. I just, but with X, P, T, i've seen, I can have to tell you how many hundreds of people from all walks of life on all age that we've been able to get in thirty some degree water for three minutes, fifty degrees with the world people going. That number gets very small.

Yes, if you don't have access to a world pool, this is, this should be reassuring to you. Can some people say, I don't have access to ice and ice can actually get pretty expensive if you're doing a fifty dollar ice day so you can fill your bathroom with cool to cold water, get in, but just make sure that you keep shifting your limbs and it's chili yeah.

And the studies on the very well estep, now well established increases in dopamine and up and effort that occurred called water for sure, were actually done at an hour in sixty degrees for and high. And so you don't necessarily need a ice cold or an ice bath, but emersion is really Better than the cold shower. The cold shower is kind of a it's the it's kind of the oppressive shot at version.

Yes, it's sort of funny because if you look at most of those initial studies and you think, man, how did they get people to sign up to about forty five minutes in fifty five or fifty five degrees is cold, even if was moving an hour. If you have ever done nice bass at that temporary, you know, like aren't after few minutes, it's not that bad. But man, at a protocol yeah is is .

kind of an cold endurance protocol is one thing to get in for one minute to three months and you know you're getting out you could sing a song you could do to distract yourself, but forty five minutes to an hour is intense. Um maybe I I don't think they paid the subject, but anyway that that study was done in europe. I forget where IT was done, but anyway they were Hardy subjects.

I want to talk a .

bit about over training and engaging recovery. Um so there are couple methods that um i've heard about and that I use um based on some data that i've seen, but mainly discussions with really informed people like yourself, prime a kenza, a Kelly star at others, the two that i'm aware of foraging, recovery of the nervous system and kind of systemic recovery or a grip strength, especially if a grip's strengths on waking in the morning yeah and the so called carbon oxide tolerance test.

The ability to do a long controlled excel after a few arithmetic deep breath, just which i'm assuming taps into both one, the ability to mechanically control the diagram but also how well one is regulating carbon oxide. First question is, is this stuff um fiction, fact or um accommodation of kind of anew data as I call IT? Uh are there any peer reviews publish or is your lab working on these things and um in my deluding itself using these tools or or they useful.

it's not fiction at all there. Um like sea to tolerance is less published data. We've run um a study our lab looking at the association between seo two tolerance and over called trade and state anxiety um and those are in the publication process is what i'll say a right. So you can't really talk about that stuff as you know and until it's but in general, like as a reason i'm still doing IT. H yeah .

assuming is not a clinical time, I think sharing preliminary finding find we highlight them as preliminary. I'm not a reviewer, but I look forward to reading the paper as you know.

scientific ethics like like you need to be careful about sending telling people results before .

you've got to that right, which is why flagging these results are not yet past through the peer review process. So you're hearing about IT prior to your review.

Having said that, um there's enough in that field. There's not the first one in that field. And so is is am very confident that that's real thing. I'm in terms of actual tracking recovery.

The big picture is this, when we run through a full analysis, m, we have an after they go through our obama legal ethic program, we're going to run. And we're look at three major categories, category want to work called visible stressors, and then we have hidden stressors and then we have recovery capacity. Any time the total stressed load outpaces recovery capacity, you're either going backwards in your physical ability or you're reducing adaptability.

Now you have levers to pull here, you can reduce stress and take or you can increase recovery capacity, right? What we want an ideal situation is to be able to implement the most stress possible because that's the driver adaptation recovered from that. Now we get the most adaptation and adaptation being simply a change, whatever change you want to be.

That's that's our gold standard right by the I some people have in dougga differences, they just recover Better. They don't they are genetic factors. But let's talk about the ones that related.

If you go to the stress side of IT, you want the thought to be purchased far down on the ones you want stress from and as far off of the ones you don't want stress so that the adaptation comes in the exact area you want and you're not burning gas and something you don't care about because you just you you're taking that total stress bucket to hide um recovery capacity over there. So here's how you can do that. You can run some analytics s and measures what we do with everyone to these these very comprehensive breakdowns to figure out what's that physiology look like, hidden, invisible.

And then once the recovery capacity, once we have that blue print, we can now figure out what are the two or three things we need to track that are these indicators of what we call performance anchors. So on anchor is something that kind of drags behind you, are below you, that slows you down. The analogy being, let's say, we are going down one of these amazing canyon roads.

And I don't say which canyon were. And so you can stay hidden here um in your cars going down to a certain velocity and you want to to go faster. Most people's is first impulse is to hit the gas accelerator we want to push, but that's fine.

But if your foot is on the break and you push the accelerator, you might go a little bit faster. But number one, you're wasting a lot of literal gas to go a little bit faster. And two, you're burning your engine, you might you're gonna blow.

The easier solution is just take your foot off the break. You're going to go faster by just stopping yourself. Then if that's not fast enough, we can hit the accelerator. Everyone wants to just push down, right? More stimulus, more optimize bing bing binging.

Here, our first analytics are, where are these performance sankers? What's dragged you back? What's hand? What's putting down the break? I want to move those two or three things out of the way, and i'll ll see how are you get.

I'll look at that. Your recovery ability has gone to way up your death. Your adapter tails are happening faster now or we can do more work because of recovering quicker.

So we're trying to figure out in those buckets, and we have a whole host of things that we measure, bio markers and surveys and everything else that we go through to find out what's there. So actually, we done that. Now we just want to track a few this recovery markers along the way to figure out what's globally happening.

So that could mean grip drank um I have some folks we are going to test script drank daily. Others we're gna look at H V, or combinations. We may look at performance.

Metros s like a force plate. So going to do a vertical jump every single day. And we're going to see with that, that we've used the tap test before, which is how many times you can tap your fingers fast as possible. It's a rough indicator of central .

al nerve system.

One hundred exactly. And this is APP. You can do on this like you tap the fingers fast, you sixty tops today.

average seventy five. I like that IT taps into no um into upper motor on capacity because a lot of things like a group trained obviously to send the deliberate signal to my hand to grip. But at some point the lower motor on we're gonna taking over the majority to work like the signal is probably one. And on where as um tapping is going to be a repetitive sending. Signals from up promoter .

around yeah so so many the outlets I work with, we track blood every day. We track urn everyday. We track um ideally accomba ation of subjective and objective managers.

Everything from how did you feel last night to environmental sensors of their bedroom, uh, full P, S, G. Going on running, like actual sleep diagnoses, not or bring nothing again, again, but like full analysts. And someone is simple as how you feel today.

And what is your vertical jump, right? So we're going to put people on a position to succeed. We're going to figure out what's the lever that they need to pull as well as what's their aptitude, what's spared the end, what can we realistically get away with. And some of them, them will take machines with them and will do bad every day and year and and all kinds of stuff. And some of them is a lot .

lower for myself. I am not as I mentioned before, i'm not a big friend of devices trying the rise watch. I tend to go to feel which it's not it's not the ideal objective way engage things.

But part of my reasoning for this is my colleague for in the psychology department, doctor lea. Chrome has done some studies where theyve given deliberately giving people false feed back about their sleep, so told people you didn't sleep very well, or they've told people you slept really well. And performance can be driven in the expected direction based on feedback independent of how well people slept in sleep.

Now that doesn't mean you can take someone that only slept t two hours or was up every thirty seconds because of happening until then, they slept great and they are going to perform great cognitive tasks. But you can take someone who sleep very well tell them that the recovery equation wasn't very good and their output is going to be worse. That's my concern about a lot of devices out there, not in named specific devices, but it's still unclear to the general public what the specific algorithms are to generate these recovery scores, right? And so many of the things that reportedly um track sleep aren't tracking sleep but are tracking heart rate and breathing which are correct.

Ts have slept death but that's different. And again, i'm not knocking those. I think the sleep tracking er is if nothing else have provided a form whether people are very conscious of getting good sleep. It's all like knowing the total clerk can take of your food. People go, wow, i'm actually eating a lot more than I thought bore less in some cases but often the case is that more so I think for the typical person i'm wondering whether not like myself um because i'm not A A competitive as leader, certainly not a professional athlete IT with myself I suppose but no one else morning pulsate I tend to take when I am on waking.

If I wake out of a really stressful dream, I might relax a little bit and then just take my pulsate kind of get arrange and see if it's spiking for whatever reason I don't tend a measure group straights, although i've heard you can just use a classic scale old fashion scale with the neo now old fashion or some other more technical device probably um there's a low cost one and then the carbon oxide de tolerance. So we haven't really talked about that in in specific ways. My understanding that is its four deep slow breath s and through the nose, out through the nose and then a big in hell as max excel and then time duration of excel through the nose and then stopping the stop.

Watch at the point where long is your empty, not necessarily as long as one could hold their breath. Did I get that okay? And I guess we should credit you and .

brian mckenzie ah those .

guys yeah and and the folks um under bry's umbrella for a really establishing this as a really good metric. When in how can I use the carbon oxide tolerance test to gauge recovery upon waking? Um post training session yeah without a good time. Uh, number one answer is.

whatever you do, do be consistent. So do IT under, like any good science experiment, do IT under the exact same conditions as you can. That generally means somewhere the morning because that when you're probably going to have the most control, most ability um going so yeah like you would take any hrb or other metric, wake up, get under control, good, stabilize, take a metric, got IT good, be prety good.

got IT sodi and bike card making soda. Rumour has IT and data has IT that I can actually be a pretty effective training tool.

very effective.

Could you explain a little bit of about how IT works and how one might explore using sodium bycars to enhances training output in a number of dn?

Contact you. So a handful of these ubiquitously effectives supplements for performance sorting by carbon, one of them is a very in genius idea because is so simple. Effectively, most contraction happens because insects tic function occurs within a fairly specific P A trend, right? So if you get extremely a cic, IT doesn't like IT.

And so whether if you're running through a robot like callosity or ana roc or anything else, all these things require even A T P. hydro. Sis requires A T P.

S. And enzi has the N. I. Don't functional well outside of fairly special.

So what happens is generally fatigue this the sensations of fatigue actually caused by some signal that he was starting to run on A P H. We're getting in the wrong range. You're not out of gas. Usually you not too low on action and you're not running low on must look like a gene you're typically can see sign or fuel signals of fatigue way prior to that mostly being P, H, choose.

That being said, what if we could regulate P, H Better entered by carbonate, right? So um without going too far in the metabolic effectively, what happens to this you take an in hill and you're mostly breathing in oxygen to when you exile you're breathing out C O. To so the differences you've gained a carbon somehow.

Well, all of your carbohydrates in your body come in the form of long carbon chains. In fact, that's what a carbo hydrate means. That is a one carbon molecule.

That is one water molecule. Attached is a carbon that has been hydrated. In the case of, like glucose, blood sugar is a six carbon molecule, right?

In terms of which the only two places you can get most of your your energy car by hydrate and that that is also a big long block and chain of carbon. So whether you getting energy from fat or carbon hydrate, you're going to split those atoms. So in other words, you've got six carbons attached each other.

And in this part of chemistry is egon ic. So when you break that carbon bond, so break one of those carbons off from the other, that's going to release energy, just like if you had a pencil. And here and I snapped IT and go bang and pop.

I broke the bonds that were connecting that graphic, the next piece of graphic, and that released energy, because I put energy in the system that, okay. As a result, though, we've now had, you know, say, five or six carbons chaining together, we broke one off the end, which is not how works, but making the point. And now you have one free floating carbon, use that energy release to then go make A T P.

To then go make your muscles contract. But now you have got carbon floating around. You can associate free floating carbon with being at a higher esthetic level. It's not going to happen.

The only way that you going to go through this process is if your body says, do we have an auction in molecular ailments that we can buy this to immediately? Yes, we do. That carbon attaches to that auction molecule you can't just put seal to in the blood because of what we just talked about.

So you going to bind IT to do this by carbon at process. It's gonna through your blood is gonna to logs. It's going to go back into its carbon x and molecules gna trance, go through the obvious lie in into the loans, and you going to excel.

So you went from carbon, this by carbonate system, back in the carbon x cell. So inhaled. Or two plants go the opposite, by the way.

So they are going to break in the C O two. They are going to clear off that carbon that close carbons together and that's how they get larger um in your in your blood. The six carbon chains were called glucose. If we store that in your muscle, we call IT like a gents.

We take a bunch of local and stack and a plant we call that start as effective what IT is, right? So you take a bunch of carbon from atmosphere here, stuck together and at the um if you want to do in the former fruit, we take that start like from the ground, you put IT up through um the tree, go all way up to the top, put IT into the flower, break IT up into these big huge chunks of start in the little forms called fruit S R lucas. That's why fruit has fruit in and that's why two birds and staff have starting, basically starting an animal is like a genus OK.

All that to say if that's happening. And we know that a byproduct specifically of anna bic like is meaning the breakdown of carbon hydrates for fuel, typically in a very fast pace with low option availability. The downside of that equation is acid production.

We know that that's a problem because I I started the conversation of their intentionally. So what if we could reduce the acid build up? Now, you know how P. H kind of works?

I went, kind of db negatives are right you know too much as to build up then could we prolong and sustain energy um and more effectiv Epace, especially as aneroid c um interval kind of environment. And again, that's important because in those things, failure is not a result. Running out of fuel or oxygen is a result of fatigue ding up way too quickly.

Is that also for resistance training?

There maybe more of .

the the treaty impose fate system that can be an .

issue that could simply be an issue of force production IT just don't have a force. You're not out of energy, you just can't muster enough force, you do enough ups and it's going to be an issue there. Greeting faster， you will be the big winner depending.

Um so to come back a little bit to the beginning then i'm circling ling this all together intention my all right. Well, the way we produce energy is going to be in two primary categories, ana robic and a robic. A robic meaning with ox and aneroid c meaning without.

In terms of muscle contraction, you're pretty much talking about carbon high rates or fat. Now fat is going to be exclusively a robot, meaning i'm going to use fat from the entire body roughly equally. So you're doing a sprint up a hill and your hands rings or your glow to your quad on fire.

You can you're not just going to use the fat that directly in those hamsters inks. You are going to lose IT from the entire body and has to go through life policies. So it's in the stored form.

Ata tissue is got to get broken down, put in the blood, blood gonna to go through your body, get taken up in a muscle, taking up through muscle into the mother. Then we're going to have to go through this process called big oxi ation. So remember, carbon hydrating luco, especially the six carbon molecule fat, if it's in the form of a try glissade.

IT is a three carbon glossarial backbone and three, you know, try one, two, three fat assets, three carbon backbone. And those badi acts are just big, long change of carbon. It's all IT is right.

So we're going to break that thing down, put in the blood, move up, move in on a model contract. You can't walk those things across the model contract. All are too big.

So you have to do is clear them off in a little chunks and IT turns out we break them off in the two carbon chunks we call IT beta. As in two, move those in a moto country that can go through this little thing, all creb cycle or tracks casas cycle. And you kick out a bunch energy under that you have two carbons.

So as a result of that process, you can generate two carbon dioxide. But remember, you can only go to that process if action is available, because you have to be able to place those carbon on to something. Or as IT gets up way too high, too fast, this is one of the reasons why fat is a nice fuel source, but it's very slow.

IT takes physical time to move from the back of your shoulder in your blood, down your hands. Ring up, take up, take up, take. In addition, its required oxy availability. If you need energy faster, you simply don't have the time to bring in the oxygen and transported through, go through capital ies, exchange through the tissue at sea. Carbo hydrate, on the other hand, is going to be stored locally in the exercising muscle cell, and specifically in side classroom.

as like agent .

as ga as ga agent in the storm there. So what's going to happen? Initially, your initial demands for attractive for fuel are gonna from the black age in door in the muscle fibre itself is is going to break right there and you going to be off the races.

So yeah, six carbon molecules, you're going to break in into two separate, three carbon molecules. OK bomb that breaking provide you a tiny bit of energy, very small, but some now you're going to take those two, three carbon molecules and you want to be able to oxidize them because that's your only next step. But want to do that, you're got to go those in a small country.

So you gotta break one of those molecules off. So then you'll be back to your two carbon molecule dissecting with fat. That's gonna in the country. And it's going to go to the exact same crap cycle, two carbons SATA.

But hold on, if you don't have sufficient oxygen or sufficient metal cony availability and your stock at that two, three carbon place, what the do you do? You have problems right now. We have to delay, okay, with them. We have two, three carbon molecule, and we have a bunch of this acid build up. Now acid functionality is is hydrogen.

That's that's what P H, potential hydrogen, what P H stands for, right? So if hydrogen building up as a by product of moscow contraction and then you're having the three car and molecule, what they can actually do is grab b one of those hydro es and those three carbon leads that were called provo A A. If you take approval access and you grab hydrogen, put on top of that, we now have a different name for IT.

It's called hyper black ate bingo, right? That's what lack date lacked. The city is right. So we now build that up. So number one reason why like that is not causing your fatigue, actually preventing IT that IT does a bunch of other really cool stop. But the point is that system coming last so so long, that is overrated very quickly.

What are you going to do with the rest of the hydron? Well, if you started off in a Normal P H range, you you don't have very far to go before you've now gone into that level of too much. And if you start off and a more basic and and basic, I don't mean simple, I mean chemistry, right? And more.

Okay, then the same amount of increasing P, H is no longer. Now just put you back in your so sorting by carbonate, whether taking as a cream or a powder, baking soda or anything else, can simply put you in a more outline state, even acutely. So this is something you can take right now before you your work out and you're going to delay what we call, delay the progression .

of the t and how would how would people start to approach this practice? I my changes you can do this with common um you know store about baking soda um there is always a concern about gastric distress um that is a very effective acceptive sometimes an unwanted like of effect. But how would one approach this before? Let's say i'm going to of doing the mile repeats? S yes, exercise.

Uh, uh, mile repeats S A protocol that we talked about earlier. I'm doing that for a few months. And now I want to try the sodium and bycars protect, well hydrated, hopefully well rested.

Ray ago, what am I going to drink this sodium biker solution? what? How would I make the solution? Let's say, I take ten ounces of water. yeah.

How much bicarb do I want to? Certain bicarb shape put in there? Can we come up with that? That is half a tea spoon.

is A T spoon. Here's i'm going to tell you, you will thank me. By starting lower, you can always go more later. So a little pinch, you cannot go back. Ward, how about I start with a quarter .

slugged that down? I I read a study recently that showed that people will hit the, the, the peak benefits of this at different times. But it's somewhere, if I, if memory serves me correctly, somewhere between sixty and ninety minutes later.

So I might want to drink IT on the way to the track. I can I can be as low as twenty OK. So maybe um as I get to the tracks and someone to do some warm up with some work and jogging I see forty five minutes okay.

that is a just a very rough standard. But yeah you're write IT is IT is individualized um and you probably want to play with that a little bit if not just somewhere and then wrote to twenty two an hour.

okay. And then um the perceived and real fatigue, if done correctly, the perceived in real fatigue ought to be reduced. Yes, I can do more work without feeling exhausted.

Will I feel less of a lacked burn done in air quotes for those listening? I realized that a very crude way to describe a complex for logical process. fantastic. Can sodium by car be used repeatedly for longer duration training?

Yep, and if I were going to use IT with weight training, for whatever reason, maybe i'm doing circuit type training or i'm doing the super set type strain training they talked about before. Push, pull, push, pull. What's a little bit more cardiff then? Maybe I have to sipped up throughout the work out, make sure there's a bathroom nearby that sounds like because I do I am aware that many people get pretty serious .

gst distance very quickly.

I great well sounds like an an amazing training tool. Um really appreciate your shit because I think it's it's one that doesn't get a lot of every time these days because it's been around but sounds like IT has some .

pretty impressive but yeah so funny about that. I mean, I get a pop cultures is where IT is. But still to this day, if you want to talk about sort of your most effective general health lash performance, implementation is the same, three to four to five. And because they work really well without .

going into the chemistry of each one in the practice, this one because I definitely wanted get you back to talk about the nutrition and supplementation yeah at some point. But I think we need a full couple of hours to get that right. Yes, at least if you, as a teaser, would you mind, just listened off the other supplements that you have found her very effective for for many people. So sorting by carbon baking soda.

what are some of the other one of the beta is another very classically effective one um similar idea, my carbon. So it's it's going to bid lendings is going to come and it's going to be converted and stored as called carnesi and the muslim and carnesi is an interesting lar buffer. So in other words, it's is going to delay the build up of asset.

Um so petite blocker, if you will, so very effective, very cheap, very safe. Um well studied. The top one number of all of them by far that has an incredibly strong safety profile. IT has IT is a cheap IT is a simple form to get, has a important magnitude effect and is uh effective across multiple domains of physical health performance and IT is because of that IT is my crown dual IT is in my inie without question the Michael Jordan of all supplementation and that's creating monolithic IT effects so many things we typically think about IT as its muscle stuff, right? You you talked you quickly.

We were talking about the creating fast space system but we have to realize um the mass majority research on creating possibility is not in sport performance and has not been for twenty years. It's in clinical and IT has everything from effects um on theological system to their been associations to mental health and depression. And to be very clear, I am certainly not saying you can take creating and cure anything. And i'm not saying it's onna stop you from depression or anything, but i'm saying there's there's a lot of research in these areas and there's a reason people are doing IT yeah.

I completely agree. And if you're willing, i'd love to have you back for us to do a discussion on creatine and the brain or created in the nervous system. They're be a lot of fun.

And maybe we can do of a journal club in advance that for those that don't know, a journal club is where scientists read a bunch of papers and then argue about them, discuss them and trying to extract the the kind of agreed upon center of mass, if you will. I think i've long been taking five grams of creating more hydrate per day for mainly for the cognitive effects. I sense, in effect, that all of the anecdo ata, but there I think there are a lot .

of data there is there is not crazy there enough there. Uh, and in fact, there's enough mechanism now. Um to understand the metal bolic needs people think the a muscle guy, right? So i'm going to think about the metabolic ded to fuel muscle. But we forget cells, immune cells, red blood cells, nerve cells, exercise to bring all this stuff requires energy and it's all going through metabolism.

Super interesting. We will do the deep dive on that soon. I have a final question for you. You're involved in a really interesting, I think really cutting edge project that I first learned about from you. I don't know anyone else doing anything um as forward thinking and Frankly as relevant to the general population because of my interest in people getting Better sleep and learning how to do that avoid stress and learning how do that tell us a little bit about what I believe is called absolute rest, right?

So this is something that we've been playing with behind the scenes for a long time. Then this typically have high performance of works, right? People want exclusivity in. And so this has been built um effectively. What happened is a friend of mine, coburg card.

I A bit .

in xi.

you know.

wonderful just down the road. Thinker, um everyone's is interested in tly, right? And for forever I would cowered using with athletes. But everything available tells you how you're sleeping. Nothing can tell you why you're keeping that way. And so we we got together and bolder and then I met some of his former colleagues, computer science folks um harvard M D um and and some really impressive technical.

And we were just thinking about an idea and we came up with we start to realize the problems when we use first principal thinking is one of my favorite approaches um if you've not made that, go go google that like that is a recipe to solve problems this first principle thinking. And we just started to think about, like, man, all this sleep teachers is, there is real. I don't need convent to people that they need sleep.

Everyone's done that. You need high policy. But how can I provide with the people I work with? I can't just tell them your tests strips down or your sleeps on a recovery.

I need to be able to be like, this is down. And here's why, and here's our solution that that's how our high performance world works. So entry, absolute rest. This is saying, okay, what are the actual nodes that go into high effective, high qualities, sly number one of psychology. So there has to be some sort of screening diagnostic for are you not sleeping because of simply you can't control yourself.

And you've done a wonderful job of giving people tools, if you can't quite your mind before sleep to this, if you wake up and you can go back to sleep here, a bunch of things, right? So we have some screens that we can do and there's somebody stuff we can do and analyze. This is a psychological issue.

Let's it's not you're in the control and we have different tricks we use and stuff on to have have to talk about, but it's not that okay is IT physiology, which is no number two, do we know what your dope mean? Levels are like, do we know your serotonin levels are like, what's milton and look like, what's this? What's a janna and what's cause of cause all being the primary driver? Um what what is this relationship? D A, T, A, where are these things out? So we're going to measure all that and and tract that were going to meet that during the day, try to sleep.

I going to measure that next morning, and even sometimes throughout sleep. And we going to figure out this is a physiology problem, if IT is that we have clear corrections. If not, want to go on the next step, which is, is this possibly pathology?

So you have some sort of sleep disorder we're going to run full people was called P S G. So place in ocp, y full, the exact same stuff you would get in a sleep clinic. Um it's a sensor that's going to go on measures E G E O G.

We're going to have a muscle activation answer to see if your legs are moving and everything else is going on. I'm going to get a full diagnostic and if if we ever done this, the amount of sleep issues that are happening in people that I don't even realize is extraordinary ily high. So we're going to fix this out.

Um one very quick example. We just do this with a professional athlete and he was having, like two hundred and eighty roughly of these episodes per night. And to be categorizes and episode, do you have to meet these four specific ritual auction saturation, ventilation changes, brain changes the sector and and he hit that over two ninety times in night.

And what this technology allowed to do is figure out what position did all these things occur. Well, in this particular case, most of them were happening with on his back. And we bought A A very simple like pillow, basically, that went on his back, that kept him from sleeping on us back.

And we saw eighty five percent reduction and sleep a weakness issues the very first night. Now we did that. Testosterone eventually tripled after three months by just improving sleep. And all we did is moving mind was left to right side. So a huge improvements um just by understanding where the problem occurred and why IT occurred that we don't have to change hardly anything else.

He had the basic hygd stuff down and temperature and and all that stuff and he had a chilly pad and all that to keep the think we couldn't fix IT with years. By the way, this took us two years. I've just trying everything we're like, man.

And I was like, I wish, wish we could get you to sleep Better and we I pull out every trick I knew. And I just was that soon as we built this time, my oh my god, it's all he's not overweight, by the way. Does any is not efficient? Isn't have any these other classical symptoms and associated with bady submitted everything? We've done a thousand protocols that fixed overnight.

So if it's not psychology, is not physical ology, it's not pathology than the last one that people don't have any idea about environment. And so what you don't realize is we have a box, we can sit right next to your buddy, just plug IT and you don't have to do anything and it's going to run full environmental cost. So it's gonna at the temperature in your room.

It's going to look at the humidity in your room. It's going to look at the water, organic asses, things that are seeking out from your mattress. It's going to look at particulates in the air and possible origins.

And things are floating around there are closing your nose off so you can sleep at night and now your mouth breathing. And you've talked a lot, i'm sure, on the previous episodes about what that's bad. It's going to look at your seo two cloud.

So we've ve talked like we've always set this point up, right? You're inhaling o to, but then you're x haling C O to. Well, during the day and when we're conversing, you have a quite a bit of force with that acceleration, right? But at night it's just barely seeing at your mouth.

So what happens to see o two sends to cloud up and build around your face and then you end up rebreathing that co two. And this can cause A A large number of sleep problems because you're simply rereading in the panic, whether you fully awake or just kick out of a sleeping ge. The C O, two around face is a big issue.

This stuff has all been known, by the way, with the astronaut for a very long time. IT just hasn't translated into the to the commercial spaces, of course, going to our high performer space, so we can measure that as well and we can figure out I for the most extreme, we can actually come to a bedroom and build an entire sleep optimization, uh, set up, control the entire thing. But for most spokesman, minimum we can do is run followed diagnosis ics and check off. Is this environment related? Is IT pathologies or something else?

So a commercial device that people can eventually access IT is now. So where can people learn more about absolute rest?

Absolutely outcome. Very cool.

And just a very full discussion. I was unaware that you had done this prior to today. What you'd mentioned. I was like to ask people, scientists are otherwise I would love to ask you, what are you most excited about lately? This sounds like an an amazing technology um and .

this to be really clear, that's not like something we're working on that.

that are ready to go great. Well and that's one of the things I appreciate about you is that you you're willing to sometimes speculate, but you always say speculation. But in generally, you seem like the kind of guy wear if you're gonna be public facing about something, you're going to make a statement. There's got to be quite a bit behind IT. You're not going to load to the in ten years we might be able to do this in five years.

You're very data driven kind of guy. yeah. Well, the people I work with, we need answers, right? We don't have that time praise and we typically have like we start the season of four weeks. So that's just more about well.

as I said, I appreciate that about you, but IT is but one of the many things I appreciate. I think the listeners and I can well appreciate on the basis of today's discussion what a enormous wealth information you are, how clear and um and potently you communicate that information and also how you can take a huge cloud of information and still distill IT into um protocols that ought to work for seventy five percent of people seventy five percent of the time, which is immensely valuable um thing to do. So for me and from the listeners I just wanted say thank you so much for taking the several now hours I lose track of time h which is a good uh, reflects all good things, several hours to take a break from teaching, take a break from research, take break from the other important commitments of your life, and really sure us all this incredible information. I'm so, so grateful.

my pleasure, man, glad finally got to connect. This has been A A long time .

in the making that and i'm going to i'm going to bring the breathing protocols to my training. I'm going to start doing more of the entrance type and interview type training. I'm going to start moving when I do heat.

I'm going to start moving when I do cold. I might even start thwing some, starting by carbon, to a very small amount of sorting bike into some water before I train and listen. A andy, professor andy, thank you ever so much.

My pleasure. Thank you for joining me today for my discussion with doctor andy galpin. If you would like to learn more about his work and learn further information about exercise science from doctor galpin, please find him on integram at doctor andy galpin.

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