187. The Birth of Britain
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Hello and welcome to empire with me .

and and I can say following .

on from our last epode of the above, fascinating yet to disastrous darran scheme we joined by somebody who Williams r import has been lobbying hard for, for quite sometime. This is not true.

William IT, sadly, is my old friend muri petit, who is one of scotland s greatest historians, and specifically one of gotland s great historians on scotland and empire, and one of my favorite books of the last few years. This is brilliant scotland, the global history, which is a book I would love to written myself.

And we brought IT to discuss the acts of union, the creation of great britain, the country which we still call our own, however fragile the union may seem at times, and particularly were keen to ask him how far or not the need and the desire of the Scottish elite to get their hands on the root of empty. How much of a role did this play, and how much did the failure of darren and the fact that the Scott had failed to launch their own member encourage them to look for an entry point into the nicer amp then being created by england? So I mean.

in a way, muri, you join us in the middle of what I would have been previously very heated pop conversation, because on and on and on, over weeks and months that were IT not for this desire for colonel lute, were IT, not for the disaster of trying to go IT alone. The active union itself may never have happened. So let's to start with that theory up. Give himself a pie thing to get you don't .

be the pint we're after IT with the expression, his face.

right? Well.

let's serous. So I think under dly, there was some support, and this lead to the union, but the vast majority the public were against. However, there was a situation brought to buy, which forced the hand of the political nation, or large part of the political nation.

And that does a ise from the imperial question. So throughout the seventeen th century, Scott lemn had been trying, generally via the crown, to get his hands on colon liner's abroad. There was, first of all, the Scotts colony and nobeoka, though the idea of calling cake bread on new gallery didn't take off when SHE was set up in the sixteen twenties.

My family were nova otia parrots, which is from that time. Yeah.

exactly. And so the clock of penny cook too mean know the scope bar were a feature of the integration by William Alexander ly of an explanation elite who would help to colonize and fund the new colony. But IT was surrender to a french at the end of the sixteen twenties.

just to say that when I had my DNA done a few years ago.

So everyone's brain is going, no .

really legal case will have a child gave a to. I just want you to .

settle that you wouldn't involved in .

a murder. And k and you where Carry on yeah, native american blood in IT, which presumable came from the first goal.

al colony, well, IT might have done. So not only are a chAllenger of impart, you're also a really of them willing, sadly said that, blended to know so the attempts in the sixteen thirty is founded with the portuguese destroying the ginni companies ship and seizing its contents, then attempted in sixty. East new jersey in south CarOlina is supported by the future.

James the second and seventh. But all of these came fundamentally nothing. And dardan was the last big attempt, which was well funded. But the reason is, came to nothing is too fold.

The first is the scotland lacked both the force and the commerce to be able to impose its will on third party nation. And the second is the english navigation s, of which there are four betwen sixteen, fifties and seventies, effectively tried to reserve colonial trade to english cruise. There were some ways around that. The scots, fast they usually do, found every way around IT possible, but in the end, the exclusion of the scots from colonial trade and their inability gain their own colonies were the two things which drove the desire for success of dalian and failure LED to the the union, becoming increasingly not inevitable, but likely.

So I mean, so many questions. We're gona dive into a lot of those dates in more detail in in a moment, but just the exclusion of the Scottish interest. Now there are people in score and at this time who have lend, they have power and they have money. They also have ambition. Is the exclusion down to some kind of attitude from the english that actually know the scots just .

not good enough to beat the table? Look that this is a composite monarchy, but they're not getting any right. So there's attention between scotland s continuation as an independent state within a composite monarchy and english that to exclude them but is also the issue that the scots are seen and they're seen by some content dental parts as well as a dutch false flag Operation. Um in other words, that they seen is so close to the nettle ds and union with the netherland is proposed in sixty and seventy seven and again in the early eighteen century so that Scott leo will become yet another province of the united provinces which .

you see architecture or over scotland today you see dutch cables. yes.

And so the scots were very influential both in the V O C, which is the duchess india company in the, and also helped to fund or no found a really swedish is india. The six go later of .

to find the lowest whose brother died in .

the died and expedition. Or that created a lot of laws, subsequent political attitudes.

we think I didn't know about the swedish company is so the scots create two easter decouple ies in other countries.

right? okay. So there is some legitimate reason why the english may not think they are loyal enough. They're pursuing their own interests and and maybe slightly cautious about, you know, letting the scots in and letting have a slicer.

I should plain from ethics, you need to bear that to buy, join this .

episode mean, I am, but i'm not sure how this makes a great day version. I see. I can we go right back to the beginning? And this this idea of multiple archy in the british is use that phrase before a multiple. I, what exactly is that? What are we talking about .

when we say multimodal? The term about is a composite monarchy, one where there are separate kingdoms under a single monarch. So that was very common, a beauty, common way of arranging european politics. The commonwealth of polythiesm was one of them in the early nineteen ninety seven, until belgium divided, the united kingdom of the netherlands was another, perhaps the greatest, and the one which was most controversial in various ways, particularly in the seventeen century, because of the thirty years war, was the hollow room and empire, which was, in some ways, the ultimate composite arch.

And the thing is that the united kingdom was formally a composite monarch from sixty three to seventy nine, seven, and actually, because of ireland, separate status, also formally out a new one, but also partly in the entirety, seventy or seven, because the union itself, reserved to the kingdom of scotland. Certain rights pertain to the crown and united with the cando of england, certain rights pretending to parliament. So a composite monarchy of multiple monarchy of that kind.

And the U. K. Is actually quite a complicated one. But one of the interesting things about the U. K.

Is that because king Charles is king of fifteen realms currently, there isn't a full understanding of how composite monarchy looks outside the U. K. To people who are the subjects of king Charles the third. But this is a composite monarchy. Whether or not you include king scotland, the spotlight is a composite .

monarchy to this day. Yeah, I mean, some people who just know that king Charles, as far that was the do of eden, think happy, sort of contiguous union, one big happy family. Can we go back? So I think one of the most interesting periods where you really do have somebody who feels like demonstrated ly a Scott on the british throne or english thone even and that James the first of england and James the sixth of scotland because I think those people who listen overseas and don't know what we've been drilled in at school.

because we learned at school, no one gets this outside.

No, they're like, what I don't understand, know you think of people have one family raining and suddenly know you go into efficient Scottish waters and put some deals on the throne. So can you just talk through what happened that because .

he is very much as gold? absolutely. And that's one of the reasons he's reputation in, was frequently trode ced in the seventeen th century.

Because he seemed alien. His manner seen dalian, his speech seemed alien. The fact he studied his caught with Scott's appoint seem dalian.

They seem dalian very much.

So a foa, we should have explained, of mary, queen of scots, who herself has a really quite terrible life, which has been covered in covered and covered movies and .

dramas over the years.

But there are sort of many things, you know, sometimes the trade of him that you know is slightly, I don't know if they say miss shaped or miss fund. And this is all part of the propaganda at the time that this .

is not the little man .

on the planet. Big first mouth. You're all of that. I remembered learning this at school that he had an oversize tongue.

So most of that comes from the end attack on him, which is actually post mous. But I don't think there any reason particularly to think that James did have a tortosa bad speech or an oversize time or any of those things. But one of the things was he's gutteral exactly, and a lot of gutteral expression do tend to involve the expulsions spital. So being god over is your fate as an english korea under James the six. And first, because he uses gutturals that you are not familiar with, and you think this guy comes to be .

his mind and he just can't keep in, but he's no a well educated session about, which is.

could you do about all that is extremely well educated man. He actually writes a work of literary criticism, rules and quartz. And there are fifteen eighties. He notoriously attacks tobacco as injurious to health and his parliament against the man before his time, yeah fifty nineteen. But he is also personally extremely insecure because the early loss of his mother, the fact is brought up by competing factions on occasion, kidnap fears, assassination attempts all the time. That's what lies behind the witches is paranoid.

I has to watch his empty. But his mother.

yeah, is a paranoid man. And of course, he's not a talent, but he's paranoid.

D, we should say quickly, but the I, but a producer, north ic boys, so we have a vest dress.

A, I say, I know it's thanks. So only one ethics contingent here.

And that's ethics holding their road, the court.

So, yes, who are the north?

Beric witch? The north, which is out. A number of women who are tried because James had a bad time at sea. And IT was alleged that they d put a spell on the boat and that a storm has almost sunk, and therefore they were being used as effectively escape goat for the king's own feelings of fear, anxiety. And they were also part of a contemporary craze because there were big trials in aberdeen elsewhere within a year or two, or fifty ninety six.

And this has its echo in literature, of course, in my beth, beth with the Scott, which is comes immediately after the north berth, which is the talk of land.

And absolutely, I mean, shakespeare was hoping for a little bit of a tip there by bringing some of favorite topics and also underlined the fact that which is are in favor user patient and can't be trusted, which is very much what James is. Six and first.

But I okay, so we live towards southwest london, and there is a story around here where eliza's is taking her last breaths at richman palace and there is a rider waiting below the window on the Green, waiting for her ring to be dropped out the window. And when SHE dies and takes her last rattle, it's dropped, its caught, and then a rider ride hard to scotland to tell James he is now king of england. Would that have been something that he would have welcomed? Wanted been aware that he would have been actually a pretty nightmares .

jobbik was walking into. He was what he expected. And he was certainly .

planning for that brought up .

for he is unwilling to move too far away from english foreign policy. He he relies on eliza's court for subsides in the fifty eight years they help to stabilize his position in which otherwise is contested by Scottish factions. So yes, this is what is looking for. And there's a view, it's a Scottish view you can still find today from some of his courtiers and supporters. They're effectively going to take over england, and scotland is going to become an important and dominant force, the political leadership of the and glow british composite state.

But IT doesn't happen.

IT doesn't happen because hundred and seven said I do to get too far. But as only the seventh said, when his daughter was betroth to James, the fourth of scotland, and this became a possibility, some of these quarters were concerned that the scots might one day exceed to the turn of england. And he simply said, the greater will always draw the lesser.

But mary, how does this play out practically in terms of scotland and england? You have now got a scotsman on the throne of both countries, but IT doesn't mean that the two countries in one country, IT doesn't mean that scots can have any access to the english colonies.

No, IT doesn't though. This is the early stage under James and James, just like games. The second tries to ensure that scots do have access to the overseas, calling to direct imperial intervention.

But the first thing he does is, is instinct is to centralize. First of all, he talks up the prospect of a fuller union, probably not quite the way the seventeen or seven union panda, but a fully union between england and scotland. And that rejected by england, fundamentally. And one of the interesting things is that magnetar reappears after a very long absence, getting on for two hundred years from english political discourse as a reason why Scott land can never be united to england. Because english common law on the rights of bagnet, ta cannot accept the Scottish legal system.

and James himself doesn't really understand the limitations on his power. Dizzy, when he arrives in england, he is trying to exceed his powers in the eyes of parliament.

He is trying to exceed his part in the eyes of parliament to an extent, but in the I think we would say there are lot of other things Operating. There's an increased radicalization of protestant opinion. And James is not a friend of prismatic anim in scotland.

He is not a friend of pure and anglicanism or anything outside IT in england, dia. And the increasing in importance of professional politics is one of the things which is driving wages between the monarchy and the constitution throughout europe. So in a way, the conflict would eventually breaks in the british isles in the sixteen, late sixteen thirties with the bishops war in scotland, which becomes known by many as english. Civil war is, in a way, a british front of the thirty years war, because the same things are happening throughout europe. Religion and confessional issues are driving constitutions apart.

Okay, now you've pulled us forward a hundred years and glad you have. James is fascinating. But you know, despite having had A A Scottish king on the english throne, scotland by seventeen eno seven is impoverished, I think is not doing well. Why is IT doing so bad?

So there are a number of of reasons, and first of all, fighting each other for half a century attends to quite a lot of money.

But the english, I do not .

quite so long. Because, of course, the carbon is another, just a second, create a great deal of of the economic disadvantage and unrest.

We should just explain who the cover is for those poor english people who haven't been well educated, the history .

berry governance of those perpetrators who refuse to be accommodated to the raylessness of Charles a second, because they believe that he's betrayed the covenant which he signed. And the continent was the reason that Scott land effectively entered the english dimensions of the civil war. So a lot of those big battles must be more nasty and so on. But particular boston, more are people decided by the scotish army, the army of the ant.

And the customers don't like to pray inside churches. They pray the OpenAIr d.

espite t he w ay t hey o ften a re i n t he e t he n ext c entury. But to move on from the confessional basis, Scott have been fight each other for half a century. More or less a significant downturn, which is common to the european margins due to climate change, which sort have been strugling with for some time. And the large commercial enterprise of dara. And then we didn't ruin scotland, was extra kicker to impoverish the country.

went it's down already. Yeah I think I saw one upc astonishing figure and tell me for this sort of times of what you know, that you know, you talking about climate change, the crop failure killed as many as fifteen percent of scotland's population. I mean, that's just a naughty figure.

absolutely nineties, that a big famine. But the other thing I would just mention is that although not yet yoke to english foreign policy, Scottish foreign policy was was compromised by the fact that the crown appointed diplomats, and although the crown often appointed Scotts, he didn't appoint them to represent scotland, but great britain. And so scotland was losing diplomatic influence and at the stage where, say, thirty two percent of its overseas traders with the new lands and there's three anglo dutch wars between sixty fifty and sixty eighty, you can see that there's a perfect storm there which is going to seriously affect the economy.

which is already suffering muri. Just let out for quite for scotland this I mean, where is IT on the european and league table? Is IT? Is IT similar as Scott football today .

or where are we? Depends how you how you reach gott's football. And I think all the games and stopped in the eighty five minute, things would look rather Better.

True story, whether anyone for this bitterly true story that is. yes. So Scott .

land is, by the late seventeen th century turn of the eighteen century, Better off than ireland, uh, not nearly as well off as the net lands of fronts, probably somewhere roughly in the central european kind of orbit. It's probably roughly comparable with lithuanian. It's probably after comfortable with norway. It's not as well .

off as democrat. Sweden, but significantly behind england.

is a much poor is a much poor a country. But very interesting dealing with the the is particular that the apple taxation rates, the dis is sandwich ws after the same as category.

So IT has fAllen hours and fAllen far OK. So I mean, you ve got you've got scotland now economically batted. You've got the promise of power.

And a seat and a voice at the table has been thwarted. So is there one particular thing that pushes scotland, or is this like a perfect storm of of bad luck, which pushes scotland? Say, you know what, we're not onna.

Do this on our own. The only way that we're going to thrive in this new modern world is, if we tie ourselves, we marry, if you like, in the act of union, england. We just do that.

The to do that didn't come really from scotland. I think the failure of that and is a factor.

How much in the end of the switch economy is sunk into daring?

There are three thousands subscribers. I'm not sure about some of the calculation that Debra to buy, but you to say that in Scott on the number of subscribers to di and exceeds that the combined number of subscribes england to the bank of england and least india company and capital cost that much worse, you're getting a sense of the huge amount of surplus capital that's been deposited in. Dan hope this in IT was a great idea. If you had a lot more soldiers in .

spain and none and Better cannons not made out of shoe lever, you know, things like I when many.

so they were quite popular at the time because they were awful ly portable. The trouble was they overheated .

in five seconds and then they collapse. Mean, it's a fundamental problem, I suggest. And they may overheat .

when they far red is true.

but never mind. Great scots party four.

So if I may bring in the deal account stare.

you Better explain who he is. Two to the english.

yes.

So is one of the prominent politicians of scotland in the, in the sixty, ninety and a member of a very famous british family.

Go, he's in, he's doing this pre and go on split IT out. It's William darm. Paul isn't IT.

Remember pool family a gravity of cause. We got a little plot to his unification with the law scotland, but that actually his responsibility, or perceived responsibility, and indeed failure to stop the subsequent inquired into the massacred grain co is significant because IT personally turned William in favor of union, that an act he had signed off was under inquiry of the Scottish parliament, regarded as murder under trust.

Marie, again, you Better explain blanka, one of the less glorious we was in a dubious ry.

the massive of Green co, some supporters of the mcDonald of Green co, who did not swear their religions to the new king in preference to the old one, James, the seventeen seconds in time were massacred. Fewer than were massacred that was intended. But what was worse was that the soldiers, Scottish army soldiers, were related on them for two weeks before they massacred.

And these were campus. They were belen the dolban campus, sent by a certain way outstaid. yes.

So this is something which is described form and content murder on the trust. It's an essential form of treasury and massa, because IT happens when hospitalities is being offered to the people who are killing you.

And we should do. And just just sort of set the picture here. They're bitted themselves on the mcDonald of blanco, and after two weeks of eating their porridge and drinking .

their with sharing stories, share .

stories, know that stuff. The signal was given nothing at three A M to rise up and kill their hosts in their beds is really not very .

old able children. And your feber gave the order.

And well, that's a controversial point. But he was sadly.

哦， 你 okay so okay， mary.

give given a neutral picture, sure that there were many .

people responsible. And I actually I actually used IT as part of a field lecture to the british mi reserve on the difficulties of military and political command and control system.

I love you all.

Yeah okay, so so so i'll take that as yes, we should also .

say the master of glen codes, the model for the red wedding and game of throne. For those who haven't know that, got to do watch game of thrones.

so which makes you in later. But anyway, look, so you said the imposed for union didn't didn't come from scotland. So I mean, that's slip into queens story because that that seems to be quite instructive.

And this one of the central figures of our age and somebody who passionately believed in wanted union. So we're talking about the dates. Now just to remind people, where were ask? It's seventy nine, two to seven o seven we're talking about.

So she's the daughter of James. The second of england is the sister of mary, who is the wife of William o and he just give you some context, because all of these families around you are very, very intertwined. So tell me what part he plays in this this notion of .

union and is important because it's apparent from very in the rain that she's going to be the last steward air and just as supporters of the stewards in england are damped down their support for the exile king James because there was a steward on the throne, the fact he wasn't going to have an air would be very important because of seventy, no one act of settlement settled the crown on the electrons of handover, the wife of the electoral and her descendants of whom George the first inherited in seventeen and fourteen.

But the Scottish parliament was not consulted about the seventy no one acts of settlement, and that was a source of absolute resentment that the separate kingdom are not being consulted as all as to the succession. There are various machinations, but the important thing is the two x pass. The active peace and war passed in seventy two, three and the act of security and seventy two, four, the act and peace and war reserves to scotland and effect of the right of its own own foretime policy and the actor security reserves the scots on the right to have its own monarchy. And IT doesn't say that IT won't endorse the hand of monarch and he doesn't say the monarch should be a protestant, but the act security was widely seen by queenan and her advisers in government as effect to be a chAllenge to the hannaway arian succession.

IT is a very interesting thing again, and its popular culture that form so many people's notion of history. If they haven't, that's already. I mean, you know, when we're talking about queenan, we're talking about livia callon. The favorite queenan is often portrayed as somebody who ort of petty and silly. And their favorite itself is all about love affairs and the bed chAmber politics and things like she's never really portray to somebody, his political and what you and others are saying as that he was essentially political, believed in the union, and had A A political steer that was strong, clear. And had he had children, history would be very different IT .

would be very different. IT would be very different indeed. And the favorite demonstrated, rabbits are no substitute. So the issue here was that the immense pressure I, which came from and government in the alien act of seventy, no five, and this the first time, union is actually threatened. And IT is a threat unless union negotiations start by the end of seventy.

No five, Scott were a guarded as aliens in england, their property with subject to conversation and their imports. And england was fifty percent, roughly of scotch exports. At this stage, imports will be forbidden. So effectively they said, you have got to start negotiating for a union. Get on with IT or else .

so that that praise union or else is is hanging in the alley a break and find out what happens when that becomes the pervasive argument .

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So welcome back. So we're now in seventeen o five and all eyes are on the potential or not of a union of scotland and england. Uh, the alien act has been passed in england, which means that if the scots do not move union, they are going to be excluded from owning property or trading with england, which will be completely disastrous for the scotch economy.

And effectively lock IT in within within its own walls and deeply are further impoverish. Murry, take us forward from this point. What happens this moment of .

crisis scotland effectively there is no alternative but to appoint commissioners for union the question is who does the appointing and one of the interest things is that um the Scottish political leadership concedes to the queen the right to appoint the commissioners and that means rather than scotish parliament of pointing its own commissioners or attempting to, that means effectively that with the exceptional lockout of kn waf, who is the sole Jacobite union opponent on the side of the sort of commissioners, all the other commissioners are appointed effectively a potentially or actually pro union clear.

Most of them no lenders.

yes, most of them and some of them, at any rate, strongly associated with the only continually pro unionist cardi, which are those who are strongly protestant and identify Williams orange and the orange succession from sixty, eighty nine. So there's a protestant ideological support for union from a small group of college late.

Okay, you've got sort of commission is appointed. They're all the yes men know how does that make your average Scott chef and beef ury? Or do they sort of desperate for something to sort out their economy?

Anyone that knows that and brought up on on the national, this postal of rugs who sold scotland down the river. Is that a widespread view at the time?

Yes indeed. The idea that we're botton sol english gold is absolutely contemporary with seventy nine six seven pupil's of written suggesting that scotland going to be for four hundred thousand pounds, that being equivalent to cover their share, the national debt under the, under the terms. So very much, very much the language of the time, this huge opposition to union, its they cause difficult to judge, the one profit suggests, very interesting, their universal subject referendum to determine the issue.

You mean.

I like a refered, wow.

I look absolutely independence .

referendum in seventy nine, six, because they are confident. Of course.

this is the S M P before the S M P.

I mean, I think the striking thing is that they make a particular appeal to women not only being franchised, but also certain that they're going to vote against union.

So would this be one of the first cries for and .

franchise women? So actually there is evidence that in a were in franchise to vote in the election for the town Clark of in bari and probably other small local Scottish towns in the sixteen century IT is, however, one of the earliest known to me, where our national franchise, including women.

is suggested that so fast. And so look, you have got this is who are selling scotland in the eyes of many scots, for four thousand pounds.

What sort of tractive society are the commission is? Are the area craters and off? So are they merchant? what?

Who are they? Well, I want to talk in particular about James Douglas, yeah, who figures in many pamphlets and people. James duck ly, I mean that he is a controversial.

we could tell us about him. Well, I mean, queen bray is a court figure.

so he, the duke of queens ray, that's why the .

queens ay and queensway house now, very fittingly, is incorporated into the buildings of the Scottish parliament.

more of the queensway house later, because terrible things happen there on the night of the act of the union, which is will come to later legem.

We're come to that, but they just talk about what people felt about James Douglas, the second duke of queensbury. Because, I mean, there are many who just out now call him a trader at the time. Now what what? What did he do to earn the eye of so many of his county men?

Fundamentally is supportive of the measures that leads towards union broadly. But it's difficult with hindsight not to think that a lot of this language at the time is somewhat exaggerated because hamilton, who is meant to be a patriot, effectively goes a wall every time he has to step up to the plate.

Fleet assault is to letter of .

sulton is one of the few who steadfastly and absolutely opposes any prospective union and makes in doing so some very interesting points because he always says government will draw economic activity and the british kingdom will be a very different thing if the capital of york k.

which is a triple.

Now he absolutely understands in the at the beginning of the eighteen century the issues that will arrive .

if there's only one capital and one thing go ldn london will become yeah I mean.

so if he's loved by his own country and in scotland, people throw eggs and stones at him. But when he comes to london, when he comes to westman ter, he's greeted by cheering crowds and he passed. He does right, doesn't through negative .

this user, yes, indeed. I mean, a lot of people do all right out of the union an settle. We don't have to talk about bride. Was anything crude to understand that people do all right when they follow a political narrative which is determined so where, but which will lead to A A desired outcome, which will include them. So of course he does all right.

So what are the goodies being danced to the Scottish people earlier to sign up to this?

So there isn't very much .

of a lot this more stick than carrot.

There's more stick than carrot. The commission is, on the whole, do a good job. So they certainly surrender every point in the end. The critical point, which is the CoOperation of precipitation, ian rights and press material quiz I establishment is conceded to ensure the measure goes through.

which means we still have a church scotland today.

yes, indeed, but regarding that is necessary to be absolute certainty that goes.

And the bank of scotland is the fact we still have a bank of scotland producing bank notes in scotland today.

Is that side into law at this point effectively? Yes, scotland no longer means coins, but Scottish banking room retains its independence. And indeed, Scottish currency continues to use the unit of account. Some of the things that are in the union, since these are provisions of the union, are actually not enacted. So the single weight and measures claws of the union isn't interacted to last twenty six. And likewise, I think the nineteen thirties is the last time that the Scottish unit of the currency is used in formal and notification that the Scott share, if hands down, on a fine of Scott max, as late as what date?

Nineteen thirty minute?

The current, the mean, look like on IT. The mark. I ve not seen a mark. So describe a mark .

if you go to the visual museum of scotland, you ire a great pile of them.

who's on a merk at this time, who's faces on america.

So mark is the unit of account, which is thirteen slingin fop in scots. The coinage tends to follow the scots pounds. So is there there? There are Marks, there are, I think, no Marks maintained the end. But hands head is on the Scottish .

shilling .

coin tage. How interest Candy, where you get a boby to buy some cute Candy, is a Bobby.

So Bobby named after I. Bobby, who is master of the mint, when the coin was frost produced in the early sixteen century, a Scott, six years and an english haply marry.

No one else could answer to that question with all that details.

But so the floating rate was thirteen to thirteen and .

a half to one. How can you do that?

My heart very is a, and IT was ten percent in the Scott's interest, the formal exchange.

And I just say, not only does he know of this, but very. Too much lustration of the .

university of grass not teach our kids lately.

I can see. I think I think it's rather about so where in the situation then that scotland can keep .

its own religion regions established?

The most important thing is that there is no Scottish parliament anymore. There's no english parliament anymore. There's going to be one one I say, I know this is the .

epower podcast, but I the association of the united kingdom, britain with more surely cannot .

stand anyway. I think he does not .

know Better.

So I mean, does this happen overnight?

What happens? Yes, take us through the the debates in the dish parliament and the parliament building .

is still in parliament. And yes, was parliament house is effectively where the faculty advocates .

is now in the old two?

yes. So so there are debates on the closing of the of the union, the votes in the various closure of the union. The final voting favor is one hundred and ten to sixty nine. But the lower down the social scale you go, they hire the opposition to union and big Scottish organizations, governance organizations like the convention of royal batters have opposed union. Thousands of individual petitions opposing IT.

So in other words, even the merchant class .

are opposing IT. Yeah.

much proposed that that's very interesting because you thought they would suffer most if they exploded from trade with england.

don. So on. indeed. Fundamentally there is there is such widespread opposition that even when the button council of air supports union is the only ballot to petition in favor, there are thousand signature from air which oppose the bottle.

And this is basically nash's people to start like the english. Well.

don't they don't like the idea of scotland being swallowed up and now, and plenty of them don't like the english either. And so what happens? I don't want to jump too far.

But just to say when James tries to get you through back in sixteen eighty nine in scotland, about three thousand people relied to support him. When he tries to get you back in seventeen and fifteen, twenty two thousand related support him. And the repeal of the union is explicit, linked to the steward cause, all way to coloration. So the union turbo charges the dynastic claims of the student and exile, and that's because of the enormous, deep rooted hostility to IT, particularly as argal and other supporters having their called respondents north of the river today.

yes. And the duke.

he becomes of our the yes, the chief .

of the .

name.

So much give us an idea of the final hours because it's it's wrangling right up to the the line isn't IT and with the popular version is that bribes are being given very openly.

Is that rubbish? No, it's not. There was usually money about to pass. Any measure that was this disproportionate was that people who are are short of a happy future if they supported IT. Oh.

i'm almost certain there was absolutely.

But they were also english army troops station in the north of england. And a movement from the artist garson into the scotch plantation in northern island at the same time, incidentally said there was, there was a potential threat of military action if armed force was taken to defend, scored against the union.

I didn't know that. So literally the english were all set to declare, what if this .

wasn't past military force would most certainly used not necessary parliament il, but if maybe any military response, because there are already signs of military response .

in scotland land. And do you have any sensation in edinburgh where all the parliament is meeting and where these debates are, these fiery debates are taking place, that those supporters of the union are in danger, that they are being threatening and boot in the streets and stones and muck being thrown at them, or the addition as well behavior as they are today?

There's a great deal of hostility, but it's containable. But it's only just containable just a moment of complete national crisis IT. IT is a moment of national crisis. But, you know, there are supporters, and many of these people have their own.

of course. So Douglas will be going up and down the road mile within soldiers. You saying.

yes, I wouldn't exactly call in soldiers. But on the other hand, their armed and they're y're to supporting, he's not kind of popping in for an ice cream in the middle, the debate and finding a lot of people shouting whatever in the q to some extent, these people are insulated. Their town residences are often in the canon gate, which is the part of adam, which is reasonably .

close to the party.

is a very posh bit of edinburgh, yes. So they only have to walk two or three hundred meters to parliament house, in many cases.

So, married. I've got to take you then to the night of the union that the motion is put up for debate. The hands are raised. What happens?

Its clauses are passed by different majority ties, some slightly tly tighter than others over the piece. It's passed by slightly modern, three to two. And I think there's a member of a famous Scottish family .

cause not IT again, what yeah, what does darm pool have .

to say about this?

One of the dom pool quotes is, and there's the end of an old son.

Was that a real quote? Yeah, I don't know. I was really good, really there.

There are five diamonds on the activity, an signature. There are six, five or six. And the allies of queensberry, absolutely.

me tell you a .

story up. So the night of the olid, the dipper throw a huge party in the cannons gate, and they invite all the queensway household to to the party. And not only do they vite the the family, they invite the entire household. And the only person in the story I do, whether it's chewed up, but the story I was brought up with was the night of the union. The only person left in the queens bay mansion at the bottle of the romal is the spit boy whose turning the roast for the next day and the mad son who's locked up in the tower and after banging on the door for hours the madson escapes and as a slightly uh in officious beginning for the union, when the queensbury housel returns very drunk at the end of a very, very .

long party.

when they come back, they find that the roast isn't on the spit. The spit boy is and the mad sun is grilling the spit boy on the to be the of taking his revenge on the, on the Greens barriers.

A truly fascinating, but also repulsive story. Is IT true.

Is IT true. Berry.

i'm not sure. And if I had been set to remember the the input family, I would have said, he said he was false.

But you can come back on this this up cast any time you like. We're going have a thirty five part on global scotland book next .

absolutely any time. okay. So I mean, there is also you know the the lovely little little fact, I think, which is the day that the union is official and declared thanksgiving services are held in england and ireland, but none in scotland. And the bells of saying goes are told, ring out the tune, why should I be so sad in my wedding day?

Yes, that's right. right.

They did. Yeah yeah true. So yeah, true story. Okay, so look, we're coming to the end of time together is just a shame it's .

so important to people any sense, don't understand how much this change the whole trajectory of all our country. This brought together graviton. This created this extraordinary country may become and done and or not in our lifetime.

Yeah, so marry. What happens when the news gets around scotland, runners go to the different batteries that have voted against IT? Is the lack of funerary al silence across scotland? What happens?

Well, that a good deal of agitation and indeed many arms in the profits. And then in seventy or eight, almost immediately, a french support Operation is launched after supporters being cleaned in scotland, at least apparent supports being cleaned in scotland for a rising to restore James James the eighth and third, as he's called by his supporters of many continental powers to the Scottish throne and to end the union.

And that's frustrated by the role navy. So there is almost immediately a military response from france, and IT remains a french foreign policy priority to divide the new quality of great britain throughout the eighteen th century. And that's largely why france ue, to support the Jacobites.

And you find many jack bites making their way to paris to begin plotting in in the streets of baris.

You do indeed. And the majority of jack bates, who went with James into exile, and sixty, eighty eight, nine were english. But the nationality of the jack bots abroad starts to change by the early eighteen century and accelerates away from english. Ezza, who supported the king, to at Scott, irish ones.

My forebear, who was then having got through the active union, gets sapp info ambassador to paris, famously leaves the diplomatic dinners early, gets in to his guys and speaks scots in the parish coffee houses, mixing with the jacket bytes and and spying on laws.

Yes, that's right.

So marry, we are going to come back to you and we're going to have far more about global scotland. The scots empty the scots in empire in future episodes. But before we close this today, do you think that the era of seventeen or seven, the active union, is drawing to a close?

What's you'll take on that? So IT has closed. What I would say is that for a very long time, scotland was effectively treated as a unit part of great britain at home, but allowed to be independent inverted commons or toromon overseas.

And that scotsman's global reputation is part the historic compromise of the british empire. E, we're by Scotts, where Scottish seas, as long as they were politically british home. And that was a grand bargain, that grand bargain of scotland, access to global markets, as Scott land ended in the one thousand nine hundred and sixties and was already on the kids earlier than that, for various reasons, no longer exists.

So for example, in the sixties, you still got the the kesici with interest in hong kong and all that sort of stuff.

or the gutter is in malaysia. Of course, you still have juda methods, knowing very large parts of hung. Even now.

this lovely building with with round portals meant to look like a ship, but known, pounded by the genes of the building with thousand assos.

Well, that I think they did. They didn't degree with china on the their domestic policy, but they they seduce china's micon talk classes. That's for another day.

But what I would say is that as great britain, due for its emp ire, fundamentally IT, started to think of itself as a single country, much more than I had dominant, had an empire, because once upon a time to be scotish, an british scotish, an canadian scotish, an new zeal. These were real dual identities. And now the only one that left, really, though, there some british canadians, is Scotts and british.

So people want to see britain as a year to state. And IT never actually was. And that has created a lot of tensions in the union as a scotland exclusion from effectively the end of empire. And now, of course, as a european question. But it's a different .

issue just for those who aren't from britain. The Scott voted overwhelmingly against blacks. I am a very disappointed to lose europe.

yes. So the easiest thing to say is that scotland has always been a scotland. And society is not an old topic. Society is always a society which is Operated in in composite or alliance with other countries and cultures.

And this is the first time it's been asked not to and to actually see itself as not fully a country as I was overseas throughout most of the period of the union. So in that sense, the union is conceived by the scots of the eighteen century. And indeed, some of their english allies in union like wall pole has disappeared. That doesn't mean the union is ended, but IT means the nature of the union is fundamentally changed beyond recognition. For where IT stood at the time of discussing .

IT been an absolutely fascinating hour in your company. Murray, thank you so much. Muri, Peter c, author of the wonderful book scotland, the global history. Thank you so much. That is all we have time for, till the next time we meet is goodbye for me and .

eat on in and goodyer me. William darton pool.