Family Ties | Chapter 5
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The frustrating part about this case, and the thing that really continues to bother me here, to bother me as an investigator, is that I picked up the case that obviously had a lot of moving parts that was save, was kind of convoluted. There were theories that had been going around everything with the Dylan glass all the way up to to china to i've heard everything in the world as IT relates to Justin coming up missing.

But if you started to look at and interview the people that are involved, there are certain things that that make sense, and in their certain things they did. I'll start with dealing glass. And this, the frustration .

IT was blue sun, Dylan glass, who first came forward with information about being involved in the games. Case glass is a so profest game member who is now doing federal time on drug charges.

He could look at you straight in the face, light you and not flinch. And body languages, eighty, eighty five percent of communication. So when a guy has the ability to to actually mask his body language into into large, straight to you, that makes IT very difficult to kind of figure out which way is going in White.

Former Green county investigator kernel coral sims intricate knows the gains case. He was lead investigator, though he didn't work the case until several years after Justin's disappearance. He's very knowledge able about all this transpired and has personally interviewed several of the key witnesses and suspects involved, including in glass. This is the man glasses accused of coercing witness statements to implicate him.

I came in when he came in the custody, uh, on a drug charge of federal drug charge. He gave up a lot of information and then decided that he was going to confess that kind of how I picked up the case and started run in hard with IT, because several of things he said made perfect sense. One thing is that is that downe had actually went to a trainer part and spoke with a couple of people that morning and the news media had not even reported.

Nobody had reported that Justin gains was missing. Nobody even knew he was missing at that time. But doing glass shows up in and making a an emotional plea of of confession to a couple of people that he had just hurt somebody.

You murder somebody. Where did that come from and why? That was one of the biggest things that that was motivated that illan may have had something to do with IT.

He wasn't looking for string credibility as as some of the theories were because that wasn't a strict credibility because the kid had been missing. He had been been reported missing. So that was concerning. Sims speaks .

quickly and with conviction. He's intelligent, employ and welcome to me into his home. And we spoke, which is decked out in a kind of push western theme.

Seems told me that he came into this case with no preconceived theories and without assuming guilt on anyone. At first, contrary to what glass believes, seems his own findings would lead him to believe glass was involved in Justin gains his demise. One key witness in this case that strengthens that believe for sims is dean's own mother. Can me blue? One of the .

biggest things that really kind of drove me that that dulling glass had something to do with IT was that after interviewing his mother, taming a lot of the things that Dylan said were actually CoOperate with her are not keeping mind. Dylan and Tammy had been estranged for years. Tammy was a hard cord methyl, moved up to the August area, been out of the loop for a while, and really had not had the opportunity, in my opinion, to actually sit down and created fabricated story with dilling glass, not to the detail that IT was, because while some things work, the other things were very locked in. They were there that night in any pics, basement, and that something did happen there.

From wavelan, i'm shan kite, and this is drowning creek.

I've talked with filling glass numerous times on the phone now, but i've also spent a lot of time speaking with investigators in the case, witnesses and informant. I've been told by many the glasses a cunning liar and manipulator of the highest caliber, most of what i've learned so far points to Dylan being involved in just in gains, his disappearance and possibly in his death.

So my guard's been up in our conversations i've allowed during to tell me his story, things from his perspective. I've not pushed back very hard yet. I've just allowed him to tell me what I believe he wants me to hear.

Dan seems to have an answer for everything, a simple answer. I lied daylit. I've also heard a recording of his friend shame saying dalen innocent. And i've yet to find anything concrete that ties Dylan glass two Justin ins, but I can ignore the multitude statements to put the two together that night.

In all, i'm told there are fourteen people that claim dilling glass mates statements to them concerning his role in Justin's death at one point or another. Several of those statements related to the time period before justice, disappearances, the news. And so before he was even reported missing, I feel that dilling glass isn't being completely honest with me. One of the most powerful witnesses investigators have here is Dylan's mother, tami blue, because of statements SHE made in twenty fifteen, at first, SHE wasn't willing to talk to police, and IT was actually dan's brother, Justin glass, who convinced her to confess what he knew.

Once we talk to him. He was trying to, at that time in his life, he was trying to get his self back. He just got out of prison. He was trying to get himself back.

Or didn't life started in a way that he was not conceding back to prison? And so he agreed to to taught his motivation was for us to try to help him yet back back into the mainstream of life. So he talked to his mother and he agreed to talk us. And he actually took us up to a little trial part just out outside of a guest that where he was living.

even with Justin glasses help, tame was initially hesitant to speak on the matter. Person urged her to CoOperate by saying things like, come on, mom, tell them what happened. Tell me what you told me SHE did IT was a major break in the case.

took a little bit of convincing, but he said the OK I tell, and SHE redgate basically the same SHE was there in the basement. Everything that was told us, he laid out completely what was happening. IT appeared to be unrehearsed appeared to be very, this is one of the first time I actually got excited about about this case. Mean, this may be a solvable case now, because he actually started to and if you ever saw Tammy, if you see the interview with this is something else.

I've not seen this recorded interview because neither good net county pd nor walton county can currently find the video.

IT was in a dingy e little rpp trap trailer in the middle. I mean, IT was horrible. The conditions of the interview, which you actually late, everything out to the point where you ask if you believe something and you read body language. I at this point, I felt there was a lot of truth to what he was saying, because just everything he was saying was kind of clicking into, and what we have apologized may have happened that night with everything with any pickings and her living laire and and named in the names and the people in the and in the gunshot, everything that in what he saw was very articular IT was just there to my told sims .

and another investigator what happened that night. But he was in andy pickens house where he lived at the time, and that just in gains, quote, came back later that night, leaving everyone to believe gains had been there earlier in the evening on november first. And remember, just in wearables have been unaccounted for for nearly four hours prior to him arriving at wild bills.

Is IT possible that he had been at pickings home earlier that evening? And if so, why? In her confession, tami described in detail seeing leon choke Justin as he fought with Martin wilky in pickings, seeing him wrapped up in pinner's plastic and loaded in the pickin's van, and he described hearing a gunshot soon after ali directly from the transcript.

One of several interviews with coral SMS and Tammy e. Blue, were you present in andy pickings garage the night that Justin gains was killed? Yes, sir, did you hear the gunshot that killed Justin gains? Yes, sir. Was dulling glass there briefly? Timy disgust gains being taken to the houseboat and placed in lake lenie, but water level dropping days later, his body being moved and finally being placed in a well.

And SHE was even more specific in her story about how there was a bloody hand print on the ceiling of the houseboat where someone had steady themselves while Carrying Justin inside SHE told of blood on an inner tube and other objects and that Justin bloody shoes were taken. Tammy shared that when Justin's body was retrieved from the lake and put in a small cargo hold on andy pick and speed boat, they could see investigators walking around near the house. The warrant was never obtained to search the interior, so they eventually left, never to return again from the transcript, sims asks, but the body was at one point placed in lake in here.

Is that correct? yes. IT was taken out of likelier. Why the water was being low? Eder, the core of engineers were empty IT, and something floated.

Some part of the body floated up, I believe so because marty, meaning Martin wilky, he came back with the jet skin, said IT was coming up and had to be moved. Okay, did you hear him say this? Yes, sir.

Justin gains. His lifelong body was then transported to a well in the back of Martin milky truck. Tammy went so far as to note the regard stench emanating from the tour box gains was, in the confession was shocking.

This was the most significant lead of this case to my blue had nothing to gain and everything to lose by telling the story to police. I'm told that he answered questions directly and without pausing to think of answers, and that at times he was overcome with emotion. And we begin to cry.

So I got excited. I said, look, I can't let you go. I mean, you're not an arrest, but I can't let I need you.

I need you to come back to an accounting with me. Well, i'm afraid SHE really did want to come. And we went to the whole gamer of emotion in the stuff. Finally, her son, Justin, talked her into coming back to, when I count convincing .

Tammy blue to come back to the station to give a formal interview in front of other officers and make a statement was a massive break in the case. Now, IT was real, and for the first time in nearly eight years since Justin's disappearance, investigators began to feel that they might be able to finally close this case.

Homicide investigators at guet county, P. D, warn, is excited about tanner's confessionals corse's. They'd recently received similar statements from Dylan, but when authorities asked him to produce justice body he couldn't or wounded. He was written off as unreliable and trying to use the system to get time off of his federal sentence, but assumes Tammy blues confession was legitimate when SHE recounted her story again for when accounting investigators at the police station, IT was a tearful telling of a Young boy who had been rob of his possessions end of his life and IT was dilling to my son who had played a role in IT. SHE was heartbroken, but even with these confessions, police still needed a body to make an arrest and prosecute.

SHE said there and he said, okay, i'll show you where the body is. everybody. We ve got a search team together. SHE took us right to wear, allegedly with this well, was we spent almost two days, we heard directing us where he remembered where this body went to going in the day too. He says, you need talk to the share of and we learn SHE goes online body here here in the transcript of .

an interview conducted on september second twenty fifteen to my has asked numerous time if SHE was being truthful if anyone had promised her anything exchange for her statements reading directly from the transcript, Tammy speaks with coral sims are you lying to get dealing out of trouble? No, sir, you're outlying the yourself out of trouble. No, sir, everything you're going to tell me is going to be one hundred percent true. Yes, sir, are you going to testify to everything in court? yes.

As a formality, Tommy was first read rights and told SHE didn't have to provide this information if SHE didn't want to, but still SHE proceeded to tell police details about Justin gains being removed from lake near and placed in a while, and her story did have details to me, then tells police where justice body supposedly was SHE described how Martin wilky back to truck up to the well with Justin's body in the tool box in the bed of the truck SHE details the surroundings, the noises SHE heard as wilky and another man named ed Randy, the in the world. Twigg snapping folds and foes, even the head lamp and flashlamp, two men used in the darkness. While he waited nearby once more from the transcript, they got out.

He told me to watch for any traffic. And human andy took the container into the patch. I could hear them, the wood crackling and then some beating IT seemed like they were back there forever.

But when they came out, Martin said, let's get the fuck out of here and Randy was wiping his hands. We get in the vehicle and take out marty is talking to Mandy that, you know, it's done, we're on her way, he said. The three men left in a hurry, crank the radio up and didn't speak of IT again that night. If Tammy blue made all this up for whatever reason, and she's one hell of a storyteller or or an incredible lie, you've doing this long time .

I have you're sitting .

in from of somebody, you've had people lie you enough. Do you feel that he was telling the truth?

Yes, at that time, I truly believe at that time to be the truth. And I still believe there is a lot that that he told us the truthful, but but now in hindi, because of the way SHE LED us later SHE let us down to, again, write down. And in pisces, backwards on me.

How much did you lie up front? And how much is still? How much is true? She's gona protect dEllen at all cost and he would not let us find that body if we found any trace of of justice s body that would kind of close the case on everybody. SHE wasn't going to let that happen is so frustrating, so frustrating.

After two days of searching walls and barrow county, Tommy blue walked back a confession. He said he had lied.

Tonight, a woman is in jail and she's charged in connection with the case.

This is the first time we are seeing criminal tami I blue. He is charged with lying to investigators about Justin gains remains and basically leading them on a while.

Martin wilky was also arrested.

The arrest of Martin wilky am concealing a death charge as investigators covered high shows and water county looking for games remains the milky wilky charges .

for concealing and death would later be dropped, but sims is still convinced that tammas's confession was real, at least most of IT.

There was no reason for her to to take us and move us in that direction, that he had nothing really over the game by lion to us at that time. But I think SHE just realized that if they find this body, and I take him to the right spot, that's i've done, and SHE realize that he is an absolute material witness and accessory to this, this murder, and that he would probably get and died IT as well. SHE knew that the Dylan would never see the later day, or may you CD, you know.

the death pending. I have been trying to reach Tammy for months with no luck. I've called and emailed every number and address I can find, and i've even sent letters to the physical address as I could find.

I want to see what he says. Now, while working to track her down, I had a little stroke of luck. One day I got a call from a number I didn't recognize. I did answer, thinking it's probably a spam call. In a minute later, a voice mile notification pops .

up with that I was also call about 嗯， 结婚 call that I remember bridget is the Young girl who Dylan claimed was .

the sole reason his name was ever brought up and just in gains his disappearance said SHE was a cricket IT was looking for a reward and nothing more IT was dealing who insisted， I needed to talk with her. I've been trying for a week to get her to speak with me, but no luck. That isn't til the day SHE unexpectedly called me. Hello, hey, bridget, hey, you're a very difficult woman to get a hold of.

I've been so bridget was .

very skeptical of me giving short, direct answers. And really, SHE was asking most of the .

questions at first. How did you about like to even like find and dilling to like talk to him about everything, everything. What have you been told? Like as far as like with my name? Like, what have you like her? SHE says like a lot.

which I think is her being nervous. Bridges seem more concerned about what I knew initially, but as we chat, SHE became more comfortable with me. And that's when the interview really got interesting. I asked her about the mice space message that SHE sent to her brother on january eleven, two thousand eight, claiming delena killed Justin gains. SHE knew exactly .

what I was talking about first.

saying one of the things dolan tells me about when I asked him about this, he said he was looking for a reward and .

not to do with that. I grew up not had a money, says like money, care about the money when, as far seen IT on the news I know just a filling I got and that's when leon comes about and you know things were you know said like what .

things just that they're .

not gonna find them this message is you send out your .

brother and that you're telling me that you sent that because you were here in these rumors and you had a feeling. Can you remember what made you get that feeling that Dylan could have been responsible for this for just and gains as death or disappearance.

the conversation brought up, but the way being a miss and whatever. And that's when the comment was made that he will be found.

Bridget and I discussed the things that he was hearing shortly after Justin disappearance at the news. He was a part of Dylan click, which also included leon shae, andy pickings and a host of others. SHE told me flat out that he was never interested in a reward.

And this makes sense to me because again, if IT was about money, SHE likely would have at least tried a little harder, and SHE would have told someone other than her Younger teenager brother. And he also made him promise not to repeat what he told him. So I pressure for more information when you saw just gains this picture on the news. Did you recognize him at any point?

No, no. I don't even like the type kid that like Dylan with hanging out with, he is like a White boy that they had a good life for his mom and dad and had them say, like this is not somebody that Dylan would be around maybe lyon, you know, see leon, maybe because he's like a little pretty White boy, you know.

The thing he began to tell me actually seemed to match up with what i'd heard from dalan, like when I asked if he'd ever been the wild bills that SHE knew of.

Dolan is not a club person. If he's going to, if he's going to doing, he's going go to a house party. But he was a club done.

was adamant that he never went to clubs. I began to wonder, could there be truth and what dealing glass was telling me? Or was bridget just covering for him? Would you say things to protect him?

Um I really, oh no. I can you really speak on that? I would have done anything back and standby dan and defend him. You know, I can say that i'm not hiding anything to help him.

I found out that Dylan had had spoken to budget after he and I first disgust. Actually, I found out he had reached out to a few people we talked about before I could get in touch with them. Was he prepping these people .

what to say, what me he didn't like, reach out to me. Just so happened. I was around someone that you on the 范围， he didn't anyone like, tell me like what to say, what not to say.

The budget told me, dan, just casually mention that I might be calling. Could this entire interview now be tainted to find out I had one last ease of my sleeve. I could tell that purje t cared about dealing greatly.

SHE told me as much of herself, but my interview was felt very guarded. Many other answers weren't very straight forward, and he seemed to beat around the bush a bit. But I doubted bridget knew that things dolan was telling me about her. I wondered if her answers would change if he knew the things that you were saying. So I read her word forward the transcript of this interview .

with dilling pant of fuck in trh eyes trail pok junker y finish nose call clip stop us thinking he was in a bit of fuck and reward.

I wish him, he could be on the court. This I may have always known, that dyan used me for inner situations. So IT does IT surprise me. That said about me, you know, I hurt my feelings, but things .

changed my conversation with bridget after he heard this. I could tell that he was hurt by what he had said, and slowly SHE beginning to divulge more information. I could also tell that he still cares for dealing.

He married his brother Justin glass, who's also in prison and has intimate knowledge of the rough of bringing the two men head. I ask bridge IT, all right. The question I really came to get answered. Do you think Dylan played any role in Justin gains as disappearance .

or death at first? No, not really. But I mean, at this point, dealings, you know, admitted to his .

confession was a lie that's wear too much .

as you know this from what I ve been told after I have been supposedly like IT really fuck with give in head and he like that got any details those like I was like downstairs and off the maybe the garage and would like sit in that woman is kind of like be lost in space because of what happened.

Who said that?

shame?

Do you say shame had some role in this.

maybe on this. And again.

shame name enders the picture. I have a feeling this guy could be more important to solving this case than .

I thought is more important than than like any of us have gotten. I think when .

investigators learned that dolan was in shame truck, when the two were allegedly looking for a place to hide out and at the ponies p that they wanted to search IT to see if Justin had ever been inside by the time this information of about Dylan and chain came to light, though, shame was in a local jail and this truck had disappeared. But bob poo was determined .

to track IT down jail on a certain day, waited in and following to his vehicle.

That old fashion P. I work is what gave bob the jump on chain. You heard some of the interview in .

the last episode put put in, but I have forward, but I don't know, and I know people and have anything.

Now in the conversation, shame tells bob has no knowledge of Justin gains or what happened to him. He sticks up for Dylan and says he's absolutely innocent. After his encounter with shame, bob lern, he no longer owe that truck and that he had been called intuition. But this stood out as .

very odd to bob every every possible, knowing that andy pickings .

is van and household were both M. I, A. Bob knew finding this truck was extremely important, and after extensively searching, he found the man that bought the rocket in auction. The title listed. The trucks is having been .

total IT was very suspicious ous um because I don't know what an insurance company and in the owner new owner of the actually said he had no idea how I was ever told he said essentially there was nothing wrong with the truck is he handsome dance and shane told me when I asked him about the dance in the drug or something over we say we here to do and he hit a mailbox .

finding this vehicle was a small Victory for investigators if there is any evidence that proved Justin gains had been in a case closed, the truck was told to go in that county police headquarters in forensically processed, but there was no evidence Justin had been in the vehicle why did these people all get rid of their vehicles and even a housework immediately after Justin disappeared? And how many coincidences can we look past for what i'm told? Shame is a pretty rough and tumble kind of guy, even though he sounded like a frightened kid.

In audio we heard six, four, three hundred pounds. He's been in and out of jail for years on various drug, battery and burglary charges. Bob will know previously told me that when shame was being interviewed in the early days of the investigation, he seemed to get emotional, just his mother and and i've heard recordings that seemed to reinforce that. But that was years ago in long, enforcement was coming down hard on him, and doing that's enough to intimate almost anyone. But when I spoke to coral seems recently, he told me a similar story regarding scenes show of emotion.

I've been retired almost three years now. So about a year after I retired, after I left good at county, I was actually involved in county, in sevan clothes, in the home depot shopping for something. As I was in air, I felt somebody standing next to me staring at me.

I just get that, that thing. And I knew, but I turned to look. And initially I didn't.

I knew I knew him, but I didn't recognize them and been a while corner. Seems you remember me, but of course I do. Now that you, of course, shame I remember you.

Um I just want to tell you I was sorry. I said, what are you sorry for shing? He says, I just wanted to be sorry that I couldn't help.

I said, well, could you help? Can you help? Tears came in his life and he started cry. He says, I can.

And I said, I don't understand what that me that says you can't or you want says I just can't and I said, chain, you look like you want to say something. I said, you know, i'm retired, I am not even on the case anymore. I said, you just want to get something off your chest. You want to talk to me and he just looked at me, because maybe one day I will. We left each other in the home deeper, and I ve heard word running again .

in there are just had to be something more to shame. Why does his name keep coming up? Why did he get so emotional after all this time, discussing just in gains .

now being deceitful? And you know, he's the what why is being received? So I never could pin shame down.

Suddenly i'm struck with a dose of reality. If an experienced investigator like coral sims can get much at a someone like shame, what hope do I have? IT is towns me. That so many people in this case could be a part of a crime like this, and not have talked, given themselves or someone else up or flat out, just made a stupid mistake big enough to result in an arrest for murder. How is this possible?

The question you just ask me is the reason I don't wants to talk to you. So because whether you want to accept this or not, myself in the other investigators involved in this case were human. Now that i'm talking about this again, you just pull the cap off the wound you know now it's it's back in my mind again, i'm reliving that investigation.

I'm reliving the the part of the answers I don't have answers too that the part is puzzling knew about wine is the part is kick me in the gut every day. For several years, while I was chasing the story, IT would have been so much easier just for me to write off the fact that these are bunch of liars and dilling glass was not involved in this, and he was played the hero and doing street ds. But I couldn't turn to lose because there's too much credibility attached to IT.

And in the fact that I couldn't prove IT, and the fact that shame would never confess, and the fact that leon won't talk, and the fact that Tammy joe was strike tude where I thought the body may be in pissed backwards on me, those emotions are up and down. I have no clue, joe. I have no clue.

Quite these people would like any pickles with lie about his van. He says, then this is lively. This, his work is what he win every day and drove to work.

And then that night, IT shows up at the lake, and I was never seen again. It's logged in, would likely to be and dropped. All coincidence.

I don't know. It's a hell of points if IT is. But you know, as an investigator, IT eats at you. IT eats at you because you can't tie together, time goes by, and then you retire, and then you put IT behind you until some guys sets them and rips to scale. But because you don't understand .

by Justin's family, investigators like sams and bobo have been warn down little by little. By this case. The emotional strain of being so close, yet still so far from solving this case, eventually takes its toll.

There would be so many nights in a row after chasing these people from Helen high water, just to find them to talk to, to get on, to give you this much. And then you lay IT back at night. And then you know, your your family goes, what's wrong with you? What do you thinking about? Oh, no, you're not good.

No, you're not good. These cases become a part of you. I won't know the answers too. I D really like to know and it's frustrated because you're given the responsibility as the investigators to lead on this case to try to find IT. And you feel like you're so close, you're just so close and then and then IT walks away. The biggest .

question of all to me is one that I often find slowly creeping into the back of my mind. Is this case even solvable anymore?

I can't be more, adam, about this. Somebody abducted slash, kills slash, disposed of slash. Somebody knows. And this case is not so old that that person doesn't live with IT, just like I live with IT trying to solve IT.

That person, if they're human at all, lives with the fact that they know they may not have done IT and they may not have been the one that directly they had a direct involved with just as disappearance, but they know who did. And they've got the answer, and they're got the clue that will pull all this together. So yes, it's solvable, hundred percent solvable.

But justice, things seem more bleak and confusing than ever. I spoke to eric Wilson about Justin and the case as a whole through the course of our talk. SHE can fight in in me, something that SHE had been recently given a new lead on a possible location of her son's body.

My headache gentlemen reach out to me and said he spoke with someone that used to date Martin Walker. And this guy said he asked the girl, hey, what about justice ins? And the girl says.

yeah.

everyone knows. They put on the tour box and they moved him to this location. They gave me a specific location.

The lee eric is talking about pointed to a particular cove at lake lanier, the lake on which both andy pickings and Martin wilky's houseboats SAT and where we're told Justin was submerged after being placed in a tall box. So much of this case revolves around this particular lake. And now we have a lead on an exact spot.

The worst thing that could happen if we follow this lead is we spend a little time and money and find nothing. But what if we find the black box? Still submerged there in the monkey waters of lake ler.

What then? It's a gamble and willing to take. So that cove is where i'm headed.

Drowning creek is an original production of wavelan I rot created a series, and the original score executive producer is Jason hook, associate producers leo cope, sound engineering by shame freeman, special thanks to a Wilson and her family. If you have any leads on this case, please can contact me at info at shone cope dot com, and if you love the series, please leave a review and tell your friends follow wavelan on instagram at wavelan media for more on this series and upcoming new shows, and you can also find me on social media at a official or that com. As always, thanks for listening.