55 | INDIGENOUS FUTURES | NISH ROMERO
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Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode of Young and Indigenous. Today I'm joined by... I'm Nish Romero. I'm a Nooksack carver, a Coast Salish carver, and you're all in my shop today. Now you introduce yourself. Do I have to? Bro! I did that over here. I'm like, because I don't know you. As a carver slash artist, what's your daily routine? Daily routines, usually I'll wake up at like 6.

my alarm will go off at like 7:30 and then I'll get up, use the bathroom, take a shower and brush my teeth, get breakfast, and then come in here and start working. Usually, I'll occasionally I'll smoke before I come in here or you know go hang out at the coffee shop for longer than I should but for the most part yeah just come straight out here. What's the difference between traditional Salish and Northern Alaskan art styles?

The biggest difference is just the shapes. You know, the primary shapes for Salish art is, you know, like a trigon, crescent, you know, circles. And then, you know, the main shapes for a lot of like form line and northern art is like the U shapes and the ovoids and stuff like that. But a lot of the flow that they have for their stuff, like we use that quite a bit, like in our own art. Like, you know, for like even this mask that I'm working on now, like a lot of the shapes

features on it, you know, or have like northern influence on it like the the pronounced cheekbones and the contour and making it look like a real face like that's more of a northern practice than Salish, but the shapes and everything that's gonna be used in it are mostly Salish. That's cool. How long have you been carving for? A little over a year. Seriously carving and like really like getting into like what this is that like this type of stuff a little less than a year though. Who taught you?

I learned over in Vancouver with Jonas Jones. We both were learning under Ray Notoro for a while there and then I mostly am under Jonas Jones. I mostly learn from him and hang out with him and start projects and you know do a lot of bigger stuff with him. Sometimes I still work with Ray though. Are there any lessons that have stuck with you? Yeah.

the lessons that you know really stick with me are like the ones that more teach about like the like I guess like the cultural aspect of being a carver you know there's like we're we're just tools to the cedar you know we're not really like yeah we come we come up with the ideas but it's more just like the cedar tells us what it wants on there and so listening to the to the wood kind of

is like the biggest lesson you can learn. And there's some people who like can't learn that lesson or you know, it's a little harder to hear it. But, you know, I've been fortunate enough to I guess be able to see it or whatever. Or whatever. Why do you do what you do? You know, in the beginning when I first started, I give a lot of credit to Ray and Jonas for taking me under their wing. Like on a whim, they didn't really question anything. But, you know, when I first started,

I tell Jonas this all the time. I was in a pretty, I was in a pinch. I went over to his house and I started learning how to make a mask and carve with him. And then, you know, I had a lot of bills due. I was, you know, in debt on my credit cards. And then I just asked him if they had any work lined up or if I can get a job. And then, yeah, it was pretty much the saving grace was just fully diving into carving. And in the beginning, they only get paid like,

$15 an hour Canadian, so like $10 American. But, you know, after like the first week I kind of noticed that I realized that I wasn't really there for the check. I was there for, you know, whatever this was. And then I really got into it and then my family told me that my great-grandfather was like a master carver, Spud Cooper. And from there, I just kind of thought to myself, I think this is

supposed to be where I'm at. You know, one thing led to another and it has taken care of me in a good way and I'm able to support myself one way or another. What's your favorite part of the carving process? My favorite part of the carving process? Probably like that like middle stage where it goes from looking like a hunk of wood to like actually looking like something. You know, like this piece it started out as just like a thick slab of cedar

then you know you turn it and then it became a circle and then there became a smaller circle inside of it and you shaped everything out and then now there's a face on it and so like that middle stage where it starts looking like the face is gonna come out of it that's like my favorite part because that's where like I said earlier you the the cedar shows you what kind of face it wants and so looking just looking at it in that spot where it's you know you're rough it out and get it to

you know, where, like here. And then you start to see like the cheeks that will come out and then there are the eyes, what kind of eyes it wants to have or what kind of mouth it wants to have. You know, if you want to, like on this one, I'm going to put hair on it, like carve hair into the forehead, but stuff like that. And then it starts to show you like pretty, like halfway through the process there. So that's probably my favorite part when it starts coming. Cause then all like the ideas start flowing

You know, there's times where I'm in here in that spot and I can't leave the shop. It'll be like 2:00 in the morning and I'm still working. Forgot to have dinner. Don't even think I had lunch. What inspires your work? Some pieces will be like, I'll get inspired by like old stories or stuff like that from like here, like our Nooksack stories and stuff. But for a lot of my artwork, I do a lot of like

it's like how I'm feeling like in the moment or like when I start a piece you know a lot of it will be like what's going on around me or like if like I'm having like a certain feeling at the time it'll just come out and then that'll be like what the mask is or what the panel I'm working on is and so a lot of the inspiration just comes from like nature I guess natural natural ways. Do you have a message for other indigenous youth?

Yeah, you know if you don't know what you want to do try everything. You know if you try everything you're gonna land on it. You know I had no idea what I wanted to do. You know when I was 18 I thought I wanted to start a shoe store and when I was 17 I kind of wanted to be an artist but you know there is no way for me to understand the business side of it or

Realize there's like no way for me to know that there's like a way to make a living You know I tried a lot of things from the time I was 17 to now and then at 24 years old you know landed on carving and it just so happened that there's a lot of there's a lot of like Like my family ties to it and stuff like that. What about you? What inspires you to be a weaver? Flipping on you now. Flipping on me? What inspires me?

So I started when I was six and I'm 22 now so it's like 16 years, yeah. In a way I think I feel more connected to my great-great-grandma. I use a lot of her designs in my pieces, I guess I would say. Yeah, or a lot of like my work comes to me in dreams. I just I was just having this conversation with a

non-native person yesterday and they were looking at me like I was crazy and I was like dang okay my bad. I get that. I'm not crazy. Right yeah because it's a it's hard to explain inspiration to like traditional stuff like that right to people who aren't traditional because you know western is very different like the artwork right? Yeah. It's so different as I've noticed too is like

when I first started carving and shit. It was like, I had a Western way of thinking of artwork. So there's a lot of blank areas or spaces where there's not any design on it. And I felt like I needed to fill it with a trigon or something. Nana, come on. But yeah, so what I was saying is that

There would be times where there's a blank space on a face or something like that and I felt like I needed to fill it in with a shape. But the reality is that's learned from a Western way of thinking, right? Like a Western art form. So I get what you're talking about. People think you're crazy when you're coming up with random ideas or you dream it or you see it somewhere out in nature. It's a real funny thing.

Same with like the panel I just finished, the Change of Seasons. That one on the wall over there, that one's like, I didn't really have any idea what I was gonna do with it. I just kind of, I bought the panel, the circle, and then I just started scribbling. And then next thing you know, I saw something in the scribbles, and then they kind of flowed, and then I drew a center line on it, and I was like, okay, transfer it over, then that's what came out of it. And then as I kept going, just throw it around.

It was really pretty. Thank you. What about like, I don't really know like how to phrase this but like when you're working on traditional art and then like using traditional tools like an ad versus like the chainsaw like you know what I'm saying? Oh yeah, no, I enjoy using the ads just because it's like you can never be like too good at it. It's like always something you can improve on with an ad but

You know, using like modern tools and stuff, it's like, it's the more efficient way to do things and then we pick up the traditional tools and we kind of pay homage and really get down to our roots and practice our traditions. And that's what makes it traditional, or keeps it kind of traditional in my opinion. You know, for the most part we're all contemporary artists, you know, we don't

For a lot of us, our work doesn't look the same as the artwork we see from like 300 years ago. You know, even like the, like using our artwork to, like for gallery purposes, like that's, you know, that's a contemporary thing, right? You know, 'cause carvings and stuff where they had a meaning and everything for our ancestors. And now it's just a means for us to express who we are. Just keep doing stuff until it looks cool.

That's how it works, cool. What about you? I don't know. Usually I do something and if I don't like it, I take the whole thing apart and then restart the whole process. Oh yeah, that's a big difference between our two practices, right? Like, I can't just take the whole thing apart. But I watched a YouTube video of a carver over on Vancouver Island and something he said in the video that kind of like

really resonated with me was that there's no mistakes, there's only modifications. And so like, you know, with the carving, you know, there's always more wood. There's always a way to fix like a mistake, right? Because there's no, that's true, there's no mistakes. It's just we have to kind of switch up the idea a little bit and kind of, I guess, play with it until it turns back into something that we like. Do you ever speak to the wood while you're carving?

No. Dang. I'm not that, like, I'm a pretty, like, I guess I'm a religious or superstitious or spiritual person, but I'm not, like, I'm not too far into it like that. It sounds crazy. Like, sometimes it talks to me, though. Like, there's sometimes where it's, like, I'll have, like, how it's drawn on here now. Like, I drew it on there, and really the only thing that

you know, told me to kind of keep was the eyebrows. So like these eyebrows, they were up for debate and it's like the, you know, the wood kind of said, nah, you're gonna have to leave those. But how they're gonna go on there is a different, is like a different conversation, you know, because there's like different methods and different ways for artists to put the eyebrows on their piece.

For this one, I'll just have to like probably just relief carve it So I just carve around it and then kind of make them pop out But I've done it in another way where you kind of carve the line around the eyebrow and then carve it in so that the eyebrow kind of sinks into the Face a little bit. Have you taught anybody yet? No. No, I'm not really there yet. I'm giving pointers to like Roy and

You know other people and the the Borsi boys come over and we'll talk about carving but I'm not like I'm not a master carver I'm not I'm in my first year of carving still and I'm not really in a position to teach anybody right now maybe in the future though I can Teach a few people here and there. How does that happen? How do you get recognized as a master up here? I don't really know. I just know I'm not one You know

Like the old saying, in 10,000 hours, be a master at whatever you're practicing. But I don't know. I just, I'm still an apprentice myself. I still, you know, you know, like the creative process is, you know, it comes out of my brain, but I send it, you know, I'll take pictures, I'll send it to my mentors and I'll ask, you know, like, is there anything you think I can fix? I think when I'm done doing that, then I'll maybe be in a position to kind of start, you

maybe teaching people where I can make my own decisions and my own my own kind of creative process. You're willing to teach people though? Yeah, if the people are willing to learn. That's the thing though, there's not too many people want to actually spend time and learn the craft. Yeah, for people like people have come and you know wanted to learn but like actually taking the time to like get to this it takes

little while, you know, and it's hard to kind of stay interested if you're not really interested. Yeah, like there's a lot of people who are a few people who like see the lifestyle, you know, that us as artists get to live like it seems cool on paper, you know, we don't really have a schedule, we don't have like a boss, we don't have, you know, traditional kind of like methods of work.

But what they don't see is that we also don't have vacation time. We don't have paid days off. We don't have sick leave. We don't have like a Medicare plan. So like with this profession and this kind of like way of being, if you're not working, you're not eating. And so it's easy for people to be interested, but it's hard for people to kind of grasp the idea of like

what we are as like, I guess you could say professional. I'll just say quote unquote professional just because like this is what I do for a living. But, you know, getting someone to learn that like it is a young man's kind of thing. Like you can't really have too much on your plate because to be involved like that is like a full time commitment. It's like this and nothing else kind of thing. Yeah.

For me, I find that it's hard for me to weave sometimes because I'm walking too much in the Western world. So I can't, I like take months and months off and it makes me feel so bad because... - You just want to weave, right? - Yeah. - Yeah. There's times too where like, you know, we'll, you know, we sell a piece or we, you know, get paid good and we'll just party for like a month or whatever and you know, we won't work for a little while and then

Back to the grind after that because like I said, we don't get paid time off. We don't get vacation time. It's all on us type thing. Do cool stuff. It's like it's for everything if we do like anything cool. It turns into a party. Sometimes people come. Sometimes people stand us up. Denise. Stop using the government. Do you guys celebrate when you like sell a piece or do stuff like that? Or just like sell a big piece?

I'm personally me, not really. I don't, I just take a long break to live this one. Yeah, yeah, that's real, that's real. Well, thank you for speaking to us and allowing us in your personal space. Yeah, thanks for coming to speak to me and for being in my personal space. And thank y'all for listening.

Hey what up y'all, thanks for listening to this week's episode of the podcast. This episode was produced by Roy Alexander and Waikikiya Curlybear.

The music for this episode was done by Zach Cohen and Roy Alexander. Huge shout out to our funders, the Inatai Foundation and the Paul Allen Foundation. And another huge shout out to Nish Romero for sharing his cultural teachings and knowledge. The Instagrams for our socials and Nish's socials and Zach Cohen's socials will be in the description. Haischka for listening. Thank you.