MAGA Senator Jim Banks on Short-Term Tariff "Pain," Trump’s Fullback Elon, and How the Midwest Can Grow With MAHA
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Hi, I'm Tara Palmieri. I'm Puck's senior political correspondent, and this is Somebody's Gotta Win. On this show, I'm talking to newly minted MAGA senator from Indiana, Jim Banks. He's from the heartland, and he's on an anti-woke, anti-DEI mission. So there is not a lot of daylight between him and President Donald Trump. But he is in a bit of a tough spot when it comes to policy because Indiana is a huge manufacturing and agriculture state, and it's likely to be one of the top states impacted by Trump's tariffs.

which may be coming as soon as April 2nd. If you are taking Trump's word on this one, last time he said tariffs were coming, he negotiated out of them. But, you know, farmers and manufacturers were able to survive his tariffs from the first term, thanks to government subsidies like from USDA, which gives out grants to farmers. But what if they end up on the Doge chopping block?

Doge has already been sniffing around USDA and had to frantically rehire bird flu experts after they haphazardly fired them in the middle of the H5 bird flu crisis. We talk about how Elon Musk's popularity is dropping as more people learn about Doge and what he's up to while Trump's poll numbers stay high.

Is Elon Musk a shield or a fall guy for Donald Trump? We'll also talk about Senator Banks' new interest in the Maha movement, even if it means that the new regulations on agriculture make it more expensive to produce clean food in his state. But without government intervention, typically in the form of subsidies, it means higher costs for producers and

or more expensive food for consumers like us? Will Musk just see subsidies as more waste to cut? Is there an argument to be made that the government should be investing in cleaner food? Or will Elon Musk just see that as more wasteful government spending?

After all, Musk did say that Americans will feel pain at first, and Jim Banks seems to agree. We'll also talk about Senator Banks' concern about the tax cuts, making sure that they are truly for individuals and not just corporations and billionaires.

Senator Banks, thank you so much for joining the show. Good to be with you. Thanks. You've been on the job for about a month now. You are the newest, I would say, MAGA senator. And I think there are a lot of questions about you just because, you know, you came from the Republican Study Committee where you were chairman. You're very conservative. You come from Indiana. And I expect there's not a lot of daylight between you and the president.

you know, you announced in a tweet that you were going to run for office. He endorsed you right away. And it was pretty much like in the bag. Everyone was like, OK, Senator Jim Banks, while you were congressman, I'm sure you were like one of the few candidates at the National Republican Senatorial Committee wasn't worried about. But I do want to ask you, like, things are just happening so quickly. And there are a lot of things that

Donald Trump has suggested that he didn't talk about on the campaign trail. So I was thinking we could play a little game like yay or nay, whether you agree with everything that has come out in the past month. Military force to take over Greenland.

It makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, strategically, Greenland is positioned in a place in the world that makes a lot of sense for us to continue military efforts out of. And if there was a way to take over Greenland, I'd be all for it. Okay. So I'll take that as the A. Ending birthright citizenship. Absolutely. And President Trump talked about that for years. And many of us have echoed that. Hoosiers support that, fully support it. H-1B visas? What about them?

Do you support them or not? Well, I think they play an important role, but we should probably dial them back. They're abused and probably something big in the upcoming farm bill that we should be debating about the extent of them, how many of them we issue and probably more of a more of a tailor them more to address the needs of the American economy and and and our workers. Occupying Gaza to reconstruct it.

President Trump supported peace in the Middle East. What he did in the first term was historic. He never got a lot of credit for it. I don't know where all of this leads in this conversation, but if President Trump can use that position to negotiate another peace deal, I'm all for it. I don't know where he's going with it, but I'm for it if it brings peace to the Middle East and supports Israel, which is where I think President Trump's going with that.

Trying to make IVF more affordable through executive order. The Republican Party fully supports IVF and I do, too. So are there ways to make it more affordable? I'm willing to listen and work with the president to do that. I'm not sure. I know the executive order came out yesterday. I haven't fully read it.

read into it. But I think it's important that I know so many families who have used IVF and if we can find ways to make it more affordable, I'm fully supportive. Allowing Elon Musk with all of his conflicts of interest, you know, having contracts with NASA and the FAA and et cetera, et cetera, to go through the government and tear it apart. I'm all for it. I love watching it. I mean, he's the most successful, richest man in the world.

The Walter Isaacson biography about Elon a year ago, to understand what he's doing with Doge and why he's so effective already at it, where this is all going, you got to read it. I mean, that biography sums him up in a way that makes me excited. But he says he believes you have to break things to rebuild them in a way that they can't be broken away. I think Hoosiers want, yes, break the government, break the bureaucracy. When we talk about draining the swamp,

That's what this leads to, waste, waste, fraud and abuse all through the federal government. He's identifying it and giving Congress instructions on what to do to how we can legislate more efficient government moving forward. I'm really excited about it. What about the conflicts, though? I mean, he rents space from NASA for a dollar a year. Like he's got interest, too.

He's also very successful. I mean, what he brings to the table, that sheer force and attitude that he used to build Tesla and SpaceX and other companies that he's been involved in. I mean, I think he brings skills to the table that we've never seen before, that America needs to usher us into this new generation, this new golden age. So I don't see the conflicts of interest.

You don't, even though he has contracts with the government. Well, I mean, lots of lots of President Trump's nominees, lots of Democrat president's nominees have had dealings with the government. I don't think that means that they have to choose themselves. Usually, I don't think there's an inherent conflict. I haven't seen an inherent conflict of interest with Elon Musk in anything that he's been involved in and fully champion what he's trying to do.

I would say a lot of the SpaceX stuff, there's a lot of conflict there just because of Tesla and especially the fact that he has all the... I think having contracts with the government is an inherent conflict of interest when you try and do that. But one last thing, and then we'll get into the meat of the interview. Firing the inspector generals, what did you make of that? After watching what happened in the first term and...

inspector generals who treated their role as a political role. I think in many cases, those inspector generals can be replaced with someone who's truly more independent. So he fired those inspector generals a few weeks ago. I mean, tomorrow is the one month mark of the Trump presidency in the second term. Lots happened in one month, but it hasn't been disruptive and

I think you can replace those inspector generals quickly with someone who, with individuals who are more independent minded and will treat those roles not as a partisan political role, but as truly what an inspector general is supposed to be. How can they be independent though if you pick them? Well, they're all picked. I mean, I don't know that there's a difference, but they've been picked by former presidents and they've been put in those roles by former administrations. So to think that,

And to equate one to the other, I think that's unfair. But there needs to be a lot more thought put into who those individuals are, their background. And you talk about conflicts of interest and political views. I mean, they should be totally independent.

Okay. So you've been in, you know, like I said, you've been in the job for a month. You've got to be thinking about your constituents in Indiana. A lot of your exports are agriculture, right? You've got Subaru in your backyard, automobiles. They're about to be tariffed on automobiles, 25% starting April 2nd, according to Donald Trump, what he said last night, the president said that. Plus steel and aluminum tariffs, you know,

China imports a lot of soy from our country, and they're about to be hit with tariffs as well. Economists have said that Indiana is one of the top three states to be impacted by tariffs, especially the steel ones.

Are you concerned about that? Well, we saw this in the first term, that we saw tariffs in the first term. We saw that they were effective. I mean, manufacturing jobs grew on President Trump's watch in the first term. Indiana is the top manufacturing state in the country. So we've benefited from it. And I think Hoosiers overwhelmingly voted for Donald Trump, expecting him to utilize tariffs and

and putting American workers first. And the end result of that, while there might be some short-term pain, the longer-term gain for American workers and higher wages and better jobs, more jobs, more manufacturing jobs coming back to the U.S. is something that Hoosiers fully support. I mean, I'm excited about it. I'm glad this president is following through on

his commitment and promise using tariffs to put American workers first, to bring back the made-in-America economy, Indiana is perfectly positioned to seize the moment and benefit from that, I think, more than any other state in the country. So who's going to buy the soy? I'm not sure that China buys enough soy anyway. And you talk about trade deals of the past, even trade deals that Trump negotiated in the first term that

that the Chinese ignored when President Biden was in office. There's no such thing as fair trade when it comes to China. So it's not fair. It's not free. And President Trump recognizes that. China is our biggest adversary militarily, economically, and it's long past time to hold them accountable. Trump is the first president in my lifetime, Republican or Democrat, who was tough on China. Every other president, Republican and Democrat in my life, played footsie

with China. But President Trump understands that being tough on them with tariffs, you talk about manufacturing jobs, Indiana is also the top steel producing state in the country. And what the Chinese do to manipulate steel, steel dumping, it screws steel workers in my state in a big way. And these tariffs are going to protect and grow more steel jobs, which are really good paying jobs. I mean, in my hometown, we have a steel mill

And those are really good paying jobs. And a lot of people that I went to high school with, a lot of families that I know have jobs there. That's what President Trump is getting at, more jobs like that for Americans. They're not worried at all about retaliatory tariffs. I'm not hearing from anybody in Indiana that's worried about that. Yeah. And I think Hoosiers that I talk to understand what President Trump is up to. He understands the negotiating tactics that come along with tariffs.

And while there might be some short-term pain like we saw in the first Trump term, it was short-lived and the outcome of that was more good-paying jobs and it was better for America. So I think Hoosiers stand with President Trump on this one in a big way. Did the USDA, though, subsidize in some way when there were issues with the agricultural exports? Yeah, I think that happened in the first term and there's room for that this time around, too. Farmers are affected more.

If workers are affected, then there might be ways to offset pain that's incurred. But look, I mean, what President Trump is proving once again, just like he proved the first time, is that this is the long-term benefit to bring these jobs back. Five million manufacturing jobs in America have been wiped out from the China shock.

And those many of the millions of those workers never found a job that was as good as the one that they had before. So let's bring back the made in America economy. And I'll say, Tara, this is the this is the difference between the old school Republican Party and the new Republican Party is backing up President Trump on issues like trade,

putting American workers first, representing the working class coalition that gave President Trump this historic win on Election Day, a mandate, the popular vote, giving us majorities in the House and the Senate. Republicans in the past used to thumb their nose at those voters.

And I think we saw a lot of that in 2017. That's why we lost majorities in the House quickly, because we didn't represent those Republican leaders back then, didn't represent those working class voters that put Trump in office the first time. This is a new and very different Republican Party than what it was in 2017 and certainly before that. And tariffs are a big reason why.

Yeah. I mean, I do want to ask you, though, about USDA. So tariffs obviously are, you know, they are going to hamper some exports, but USDA stepped in and they help farmers, right, when they're in times of, you know, bad crops, bird flu, et cetera. But USDA is gone under the doge cutting block, you could say. And are you concerned that they may in some way, you know,

this may hurt your constituency. Like you guys rely on that. It's not even just the grants for farmers. It's also broadband. Like, is that a step too far going after USDA? I know that they just fired a bunch of people that were working on the bird flu and they had to be rehired. Well, you got to get back to what Doge is all about. It's about cutting waste, fraud and abuse and slashing bureaucracy. And if you're

You can't tell me that there's not waste, fraud, and abuse and massive bureaucracy in a department like the Department of Agriculture, even the Department of Defense. Of course. The Department of Education. That's what Doge is targeting, and I think they're going to find a lot of that at USDA. The Farm Bill, one of my biggest surprises about the Farm Bill is this overwhelmingly food stamps and verification.

very little of it is direct aid to farmers and support for farmers in Indiana. So when you look at... But it's so haphazard to like the point where they had to rehire the people back who were working on the bird flu crisis. Like there has to be some concern that they're going to slash USDA funding in some way that impacts your state. I mean, not a lot, I'm sure. I mean, obviously, you know, in that case, they rehired them quickly and

In a massive effort like what Doge is and the disruptive nature of how Elon and President Trump are treating all of these activities, something like that might happen. You quickly adapt and make up for it.

But Hoosiers support, I'm telling you, Tara, Hoosiers support what's going on here. They love President Trump. President Trump yesterday, a new poll yesterday, 55% approval rating. I mean, you didn't see that with President Obama in his second term. You haven't seen that with any other president in modern times in their second term. President Trump is more popular than he's ever been before. I think people like that he's breaking things. I think you're right. But you know what is interesting is that Elon Musk's approval rating is going down.

What do you make of that? And the more people know about Doge, the less they like him. Yeah, I've thought a lot about this. The Democrats are so paralyzed from Election Day. They don't know how to. I preside on that one of the one of the hazing rituals of being a freshman in the House or the Senate is that you have to take presiding time. And so I've been presiding a lot on the Senate floor. And the Democrats are giving this speech after speech complaining about Elon and

complaining about, you know, agenda 20, they're rehashing agenda 25 and all of these things that they beat up on Republicans about in the election cycle that didn't didn't work. By the way, the voters rejected it. You mean Project 2025? Project 2025. Yeah. Excuse me. So the Democrats are sort of they're paralyzed by all this. They don't know how to fight back. It's not like when I was elected, first elected to the House in 2017, I

I would go back to Indiana and everywhere that I went, there was the resistance. Do you remember that they called them the there's another name for for the group as well. Every every public event, even private event, private places that I went to, they were protesting me. They had talking points. They had they had a strategy. The Russian collusion hoax was a part of that.

Um, and other this time around, they are, they are so paralyzed. They don't know how to, they don't know how to attack president Trump because they know he's popular. They know that what he represents and campaigned on is what the voters want. And they know they're on your own podcast with Senator Fetterman. I mean, the, the, the Democrats are even, some of them are saying out loud, their party is, their party has been rejected. Their party is, their

Their party doesn't know how to fight back and be the opposition party to President Trump this time around because President Trump is so popular. So I thought you think about, you know, Elon has taken the fire. I think President Trump is enjoying it because his numbers are going up. And Elon's totally OK with it, too, because he's doing what he loves to do. He loves this country.

He, you know, his mission is to create efficiencies. I mean, his ultimate mission is to send rockets to Mars and go to Mars. But you can't do that when bureaucracy is holding you back. And I think he's okay with taking the hits.

Yeah, he's a bit of Trump's heat-seeking shield, I guess you could say. He's a shield for Trump. But he is a soft target. Like, Democrats see him as someone who is losing popularity. And I think it's because of the way that he's moving through Doge. And there's got to be, like, something that you would say, no, do not go near that. Like, that is a program that works for Indiana. For example, Katie Britt, senator from Alabama, said,

She drew a hard line on trying to touch any sort of funding that goes to the NIH because, in fact, in her state, they get $334 million to the University of Alabama, and they use that money to study causes of death caused by Parkinson's, cancer, etc. Like, is there anything that if Doge stuck their hand in there, you'd be like, get out of that? That is the place.

Yeah, Indiana and Purdue get a lot of that NIH funding too. And they will continue to, just like a lot of that funding will continue to go to Alabama and other universities around the country who do good work and good research.

But there's still a lot of waste. I mean, there are still ridiculous programs that NIH spends money on that Doge and Elon and Republicans are pointing out that we should take a strong look at. And that's why I support this effort. I think that's why the American people support it. President Trump's popularity and numbers keep going up in spite of, you know, you're talking about Elon. Then why are Elon's going down, though? Why are Elon's going down? Well.

Well, I mean, I don't I'm not a pollster. I can't I'm not sure that I can speak to that. But he's he's disrupting the system. The Democrats need it. Obviously, they're attacking him on the floor. The mainstream media is very focused on

attacking Elon for it. So I think that's probably inevitable, but I guess my point is he doesn't care. He's not running for office. He has to walk back a lot of the things he does, though. That's the one thing I will say. Like, you know, people essentially elect you for your governance, right? And if they feel like there's too much chaos, they're going to elect somebody else. Like,

Joe Biden was not anyone's first pick to be president, right? But there was a sense that there was chaos during COVID. And so they chose him because they thought he would be a steadier hand. You know, if the feeling is that there's too much chaos around Donald Trump, like it could eventually impact him. But right now it's impacting his executor. Yeah, right now it's impacting Elon Musk, but it could eventually impact him.

Well, or it could be the opposite. I learned this lesson in state government in Indiana. And you study leaders in different eras, our current era, who are disruptors, who are

touch issues that might not be popular at the moment. But at the end of the day, the voters are looking for someone to do exactly what President Trump is doing, exactly what the voters expected him to do. He's doing exactly what he campaigned on doing, and his numbers are going up for it. So I have a sense that

For four years, we're going to see a very effective presidency and the early disruptions of Doge and what it's doing to slash bureaucracy and identify waste, fraud and abuse. It's going to set President Trump up for the next four years as well.

Okay. Wait, four years. After the first four years? No, no. I mean, for the next four years. The next four years, I think his numbers can continue to be strong because while this effort is disruptive in the moment, it's going to help us scale back wasteful spending. We have $37 trillion national debt. Well, the tax cuts aren't going to help with that.

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I want to ask you, though, about disruptors. What do you think of the Maha movement? A lot of my friends are actually huge fans of it. And I'm in that age, like 37 years old. They have kids. They're very concerned about everything that they eat. And for good reason. I lived in Europe and I remember they didn't use the words organic. Everything was organic. And in fact, they didn't want to do a trade deal with us. The TTIP deal that President Obama was pushing in 2015 because they were saying,

you guys put chlorine in your chicken, you have too many hormones in your meats, all your food will kill you. And that was their big complaint about American products. I mean, a lot of those products, though, they come out of Indiana, the agriculture. Are you concerned that there's going to be a lot more regulation coming out of HHS and the FDA and it's going to hurt your industries? No, I'm not concerned about it. I'm excited about it. You look at the obesity rates in America and what is it? It's like

70% of kids in America are obese. I mean, that's a national security issue. We had a decline in recruitment numbers. And some of that was, you know, you have less kids today who can serve in the military because of their health and obesity rates and

So but the strength of the country, I mean, it's wrapped up in all of that. So I like the conversation. I think our agricultural industry and economy in Indiana and throughout the country can adapt to it and make up for it and even be more successful because of it. I mean, you think about the homegrown agriculture in Indiana and throughout the country, you

The farm-to-fork movement, the farms selling directly to consumers, customers, restaurants, and the health advantages of that, on top of...

You know, RFK, you know, I serve on the HELP Committee. We had him in the we had him testify. Dr. Oz, the new FDA director. I mean, the collective effort of all of these nominees and cabinet secretaries working together to explore these issues can be really good for America for a long time to come. But the political dynamic of it. It's more expensive to be to to produce organics, to produce, to deal with the regulations that would come with that for the actual production.

producers? Maybe. Maybe not. I mean, one area that is not more expensive is... Then why use pesticides and all that other garbage? You're using it because it's efficient. Yeah, well, these are conversations that I hope we have in the committee, that I hope RFK, that the Maha movement really shines a light on, but

At the end of the day, we spend more on health care than any country by far than any country in the world. And why is that? It's because of the it's because we have an unhealthy population. So if we can address that and make America healthy again, then it's going to have it's going to have an economic tradeoff, a taxpayer tradeoff when it comes to health care costs. The benefit of that is going to be enormous, I think, for our country. So I'm excited to think about I'm just like, listen, I'm thinking about then you have to subsidize.

the industry, obviously, in some way, or we're going to be paying $10 for a loaf of bread. Otherwise, the customers, it's one or the other. It just doesn't happen naturally. Maybe, maybe not. I'm open to that. I mean, is there a public investment that we can make to make this country healthy again? And it's something that we should explore. I know that President Trump is very open to that.

You've said before that you think that there should be an open conversation about vaccines as well. Sure. What did you mean by that? Well, I think, you know, I have three daughters and they were all heavily vaccinated as kids. And should we have, you know, more choice in vaccinations and vaccines?

Should parents know what, uh, more about what those vaccinations do? I mean, I was, I served in the military too. I've had every vaccination that you can imagine when I went, when I served in, when I deployed to Afghanistan. And, but I don't know, I don't know everything about every, every shot that I took. So I think that this, this country deserves a conversation about that. I know a lot of parents who aren't MAGA, aren't pro-Trump. They're not, uh,

They're not even Republican, but they have an interest in the benefits of vaccinations versus some of the unexpected outcomes. So I think that having a conversation about it is that let's be real about it. And, you know, when it comes to when I served on the on the on the I now serve on the help committee and the the confirmation hearing for RFK Jr.,

And some of his comments in the past about autism rates and where that comes from, why has it risen so sharply in recent years? Don't you think it's because a lot of people are having kids later in life and that's why the autism rates are rising? I don't know. That's what they say. They say that actually they say it's male sperm, older male sperm that leads to autism. I don't know, but we should have a conversation about it.

Well, then we should talk about older male sperm. That's the conversation we should have. Fine. We can talk about that, too. Yeah, no, it's just interesting. Like, is there something specific? Like, is there a specific vaccine or a case that you saw that made you specifically think that? No, not specifically, but I think the country's hungry for this conversation. At-large vaccinations, the health of our country, obesity rates,

The Maha movement and specifically, you know, more than any more than any other individual, RFK Jr. has motivated a conversation I think a lot of Americans want to have. Did you always feel this way? Because I feel like this is different than the Jim Banks who was in Congress. Did they win you over in some way when you learned more about the Maha movement? My wife having having raising kids in a moment like this and

My wife has always been interested in these issues. And in fact, Tara, when I was at the state house, I worked on a number of bills at the state level in Indiana to support farm to fork and giving local farmers, niche farmers more options. So I did. So to be fair, I did work on those issues.

at the state level. Congress hasn't provided that much of an opportunity. But the movement behind MAHA is real, and it would be prudent for any elected official in a moment like this to listen to, especially the moms behind that movement. I can think of a lot of them that transcend Republican, Democrat, pro-Trump, anti-Trump, MAGA, anti-MAGA. A lot of moms that I heard from on the campaign trail running last year that

ended up voting for President Trump because specifically because of this. I mean, that's real. I hear I hear from those people all the time. They expected RFK to have a front and center role in the administration. And President Trump delivered on that. Yeah. I mean, are you concerned, though, that by just suggesting that there might be issues with vaccines, that that could have dangerous impacts on our society, like can lead to people deciding to not vaccinate their children, bring back polio, measles, like what we saw in the Samoa Islands, like

Is there any concern about even... I trust Hoosiers and the American people. They're smarter than that. But they do want, I think they do want a real conversation, an honest conversation about this. And that's what President Trump and RFK are going to deliver.

Okay, so you come from a working class background. I know you were the first in your family to go to college like me. I did learn from your staff earlier this morning that you grew up in a trailer and that you really know a lot about, you know, working class. Quite your father was a union worker. We did say in 2017 that you wish that the tax cuts were more focused on individuals rather than billionaires and corporations. You know, Democrats right now, they're preparing their talking points. Just heard from Chuck Schumer.

Hit hit hit the Republicans on the fact that these are corporate tax cuts that are helping out their billionaire friends, like obviously a very provocative line. Do you still think that now? Are you concerned that these tax breaks are to are going to be helping Democrats?

billionaires in big business rather than the working class voters. Let's be clear about what we're talking about. 2017, we passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act that did a number of things, but it made the corporate tax rates permanent, but it sunset the individual small business rates. So I voted for it and it proved to be healthy for the economy. But in hindsight,

Paul Ryan and some of the other, again, you talk about the old school Republican Party, they negotiated a tax cut bill that put a higher priority on permanent corporate rate cuts, but

sunset the individual rates. And I think that was a mixed message. That was an overall mistake then. We should have made the individual rates permanent then. And if the math or the rules of the Senate or whoever, I've heard them blame a number of different angles on it, the Senate parliamentarian or for whatever reason that they decided to make the corporate rates permanent, but the individual rates sunseted,

It should have been the other way around in hindsight. So what are we doing now? The tax cuts today are those individual rates, the pass-through small business rates. Now we have an opportunity to make them permanent. And that's what President Trump is fighting for. That's what I'm fighting for. Because the opposite would be a massive...

tax increase on working class families. I mean, that's the reality of it. So we don't have an option here to fail. We have to deliver on making those individual rates permanent and extending them. And that's what the reconciliation fight is all about. President Trump wants one big, beautiful bill.

The Senate has a path forward to separate the border and more money for the military, and then the tax bill would come second. I don't care if it's one bill or two bills. We just have to get it done and deliver on that promise. Or families like my family, my mom and dad, my dad's a retired factory worker. As you mentioned, my mom was a cook in a nursing home. My brothers are working class. Most of my constituents, this sums up most Hoosiers,

They will take a massive tax hike if we don't extend those individual rates. And that's what we have staring us in the face that we have to focus on here very shortly. Have you thought about, though, I know you said you don't care one way or another, one bill or two. I mean, you're a House guy. Do you think this House bill is a better idea? They only have three votes to lose. Yeah, it's all about the math. I mean, if the House has to do this in one bill, then it needs to be one bill. If the House can't pull it together and struggles their way through it,

then what the Senate is doing right now, this week, we're going to do the Voterama and pass the Lindsey Graham, the skinny version of the part one of the reconciliation package, the first budget bill, $200 billion for military border security, building the wall, giving ICE more money for deportation. If the House can't, if they continue to stumble their way through it, then the

Then the Senate has to lead and pass the first one to give President Trump a win and give these agencies the funding that they need to do what they need to do. Sounds like you support that grand bill. Is that right? I'll support it. Yeah, but it's the backup plan. The grand bill is the backup plan to the one big, beautiful bill. If they can't get it over the finish line, then the Senate will put this on the table so that the House can take it up if it comes to that.

So a lot of this bill, though, you have to do it through reconciliation, obviously, because you don't have a majority in the Senate, which means that you have to cut from somewhere. But some of the bill is cutting from Medicare and Medicaid. Are you concerned about that? Not in the Senate bill. In fact, I think the House bill, we'll see what they come up with.

And if there are ways to save money by block granting Medicaid to states like Indiana who can spend that money better than the federal government can, there might be ways to save money in different places. As Doge is pointing out in all these agencies, there are ways to cut bureaucracy and save taxpayer dollars. But the Senate bill doesn't do that. I mean, one way, there are many, many different pay-fors that

that address waste, fraud and abuse and free college tuition and some of those things that some of the giveaways of the Biden administration are paid for in the Senate bill. So we'll see what the House comes up with. I don't want to speculate about what those pay-fors are because we don't know yet. But the Senate bill is moving along rapidly and I think will pass the Senate by the end of the week. So you'll vote for it? Yes.

Are you okay with increasing the deficit to extend the tax cuts? Well, last time, 2017, we passed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. CBO said that it would cost a trillion dollars or whatever they came up with, and it was completely false. I mean, it grew the economy, grew tax coffers, and I expect that this will happen this time, too.

our deficit is growing every single day. I mean, every time Congress meets, they have to talk about increasing the debt limit. So it's not like it raised a ton of money either for

Yeah, I don't think we can afford to allow the individual tax rates to expire and a massive tax increase on working class families would be devastating for the economy. So we can't afford to do that. And I think it'll actually help the economy. The economy will react to it and grow tax coffers and

I think there's a good chance that it will be a net positive for in that regard, that it won't add to the debt. It might help us. Okay. Have you spoken to Mike Pence lately, former governor of Indiana? How's he doing? I haven't. I mean, I know he's back in the state and, you know, I wish him well. I'm not sure what he's up to, give his speeches and

writing books and things like that. How do you think these Ukraine talks will shake out? I know that you called for a moratorium on aid for the country. Do you expect that they're going to have to cede some land over to Russia? Yeah. President Trump is obviously very focused on Ukraine at the moment and bringing an end to the war. And there's nobody better to help negotiate that than him. I just think Ukraine is low on my priority list at the moment. I mean, again, go back to that

That Senate bill, $200 billion, we've given Ukraine more than $200 billion over the last few years. So wouldn't it be great to have that $200 billion to secure our own border, to

support the efforts to make our country strong again. President Trump understands that. That's why he's trying to bring an end to the war so that we can get back to focus on the focus on America and what's best for America instead of distractions like what's going on there. I've been told by your staff that you have to go vote, but really quickly, I heard you're speaking at CPAC. Can I get a little preview? Well, I started the Anti-Woke Caucus a few years ago. I chaired the Republican Study Committee for two years.

And I ended that. I kicked off the Senate campaign and I wanted to do more in the House and react to, I think, one of the big issues of the Biden era was wokeness and DEI and what that was doing to cripple the American dream and opportunities for kids who come from places like I do to grow up in this country and do better than their parents did and

In my speech, I'm going to talk about the death of DEI, how with the stroke of a pen, in many cases, President Trump has ended DEI in the military, in our schools. Corporate America is reacting to it. The anti-woke caucus played a big role in laying the foundation, the groundwork for that in the House over the past few years. By the way, Harriet Hageman has picked up the anti-woke caucus, and she's chairing it

This time, what I'm going to talk about what that means for America and how that how President Trump has ushered in this new golden age by eradicating wokeness in our culture, in our country and why we're better off for it. Well, there's always the pendulum swings one way and the other, you know, so may have gone one way towards DEI and I guess anti-woke. There may be a reaction to that as well. Are you concerned about that? I think America would better. The American dream will thrive forever.

by eliminating DEI in our culture and we'll be better off for it. A lot of people feel very alienated about this, though, right now and feel like they're being targeted. I'm not hearing that. I'm seeing the opposite. And President Trump promised that he would do this on the campaign trail. He's delivering on this and a lot of other things, too. I got to go vote. OK, good luck. Have a good day. You too.

That was another episode of Somebody's Gotta Win. I'm your host, Tara Palmieri. I want to thank my producers, Eduardo Ocampo and Connor Nevins.

If you'd like more of my work, you can find me on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, X. It's all at Tara Palmieri. That's T-A-R-A-P-A-L-M-E-R-I. You can sign up for my newsletter, The Best and the Brightest, by going to puck.news slash Tara Palmieri. And you can use my discount code Tara20 for 20% off a subscription at Puck. I'll see you again next week.