The Army of Election Officials Ready To Reject The Vote
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more from a new york times. I'm Michael borrow. This is the daily. On tuesday night, as the voting ends and the counting begins, the election system itself will be on trial today. My colleague, jim, routine work on the army of local election officials trust with certifying the vote who are prepared to reject IT and create chaos in the weeks ahead. It's friday, november first.

Jim, this is our third presidential election in which doll trump has been on the ballot, making the claim that if he loses, IT will only be because the election was stolen from him. He threatened to make that claim, but of course, he very much made that claim after losing fairing square in twenty twenty. And now he's prepared to make that claim once again on tuesday night or whenever the elections ultimately called, if he loses and you covered every single one of those races.

In fact, I was in a studio inevitably with you on election day for each one of those. And your beat has become essentially election denialism in the united states in all the forms that IT takes. So on the cusp of this third election, where does this deniest movement now stand?

Well, Michael, thanks for reminding me of our long journey here. But that's exactly what i've been spending the past few months trying to do in visiting swing states, going to local commission meetings to see where this movement that really was born, forged in the chaos of january six, twenty twenty one, has brought us because that was the beginning of something, was the beginning of a new movement to deny elections, to change the way elections are run. And this past summer, I found myself at what really, to me, is ground zero of this new movement. And IT was in northern nevada, washout county, which encompasses reno, where things had really blown up on this very basic task in this local election system .

tells that story.

I'm gona directly to a specific day, please. It's july nine, twenty twenty four couple months ago recently. Good morning, everyone.

I will special board accounting commissioner meeting to order IT is ten o'clock and more commission board meeting, which by the way, this commission deals with water issues, sewer issues, streets, regular stuff IT also certifies elections. The commission of watch account is gathered for a very specific and easy Normally purpose. They are going to certify some recent local primary elections.

Thank you very much. Will now move into the this is the very basic process of putting the board stamp on here. The number votes here are the winners.

We're going to register with this with the state tire ribbon around IT. Thank you very much. Will now move into I am number three public comment.

But rather than at being the Normal performer process, things will pretty quickly start to go. We have quite a few people signed in. So when I call the second name, please cure yourself up to be ready. A large number people at this meeting, something has been wrong in recd about elections, but quite surely something thing wrong with elections since twenty twenty.

In the last four years, we had nothing but turmoil .

and fraud because this group of people does not believe that Donald trump lost that election. And ever since, they've been convinced that elections in their county just aren't right. Why do we continually have errors? Every single election, there's an error never write.

I guess we'll a like the greatest hits album. Everything you thought you heard in twenty twenty directly connects to diminish which they were turned to hide stuff. They turned off the cameras. Questionable activity in the counting center.

The recent counting of ballots in the primary election IT was an arguably dishonest and corrupt boat are being stolen that was a dirty, dirty boats roles wo George, social skies come in and just mess things all up and you put alleged mouth vision on a grand scale included gusted you people are out line. You can't certify this recount. You're actually gonna be an accessory to the crime at a minimum.

Now that you know and that data and evidence is right in front you the room is packed with people who want the board to reject election certification. You're not only citizens, you are servants, servants of the people the way they're dressing. The commissioners sitting up there in the days IT gets pretty heated.

We're gonna a big barbecue and we're going to have every one of your pictures up there, and we're going to show those north value people how you vote in all.

Better think about what you're doing now because this is not going to stop here. It's going to be realized. Think about IT. And a lot of this anger is being directed at the single commissioner sitting up on that days who's about to actually certify her own election.

Clara Andrea, a OK. What we know about clara, Andrea.

clara Andrea is a life long republican, but he does not go for this kind of election denialism. In fact, when he comes to elections issues, she's a swing voter on this board. This board is a five member board with two people who have doubted past election results, are not big believer s and certifying elections. And then two democrats, and clara, Andrea a, is the swing vote. So now here he is about to certify her own election, and the crowd is begging her and the rest of the board not to, but really because of this whole panoply of fraud and problems and doubt about the election .

system of which i'm going to venture. There is no evidence yeah .

to say we've not seen any credible, compelling evidence and certainly not any that stood up in any cord.

okay. So what does clare Angela say in response to these pleas and this anger from the audience?

Well, I. Think about andreo ller says that loud. I really appreciate, to be honest, the fact that everyone no matter what side of IO though realizes that the elections um have a lot of room for improvement period.

I hear you. Do you have concerns? I've got my own issues with the election system here, like everything can always be tighter and Better.

But and where those election laws take place are at the legislature. This is not the forum for those concerns. There's the state legislature.

Do you want, for instance, which mean the crowd do hang county ballot and you want to get rid of voting machines? Let's get a law going at the state legislation. But this is not the form for that.

And when IT comes to certification, the law is the law. And I have to do this. I S all of these can be changed .

through through .

elections at the legislature, and they can be changed. And i'm in great water. Da, and supposed to say this does nothing to calm the crowd down. Zero, so you're sitting here talking about legislation, Andrea, no, doesn't work. That's not kind of find violated if anything .

is .

time to seems to inside the crowd more they're so frustrated by that answer. They see IT as a cop you know you're pushing elements of our society and you know in a direction that no american wants to go. And I isn't a few comments. This goes on literally for awards wow, this whole process, but eventually there's nobody else. I thank you .

that .

i'm clerk and now bring this time to vote. Are there any questions or comments before? And there's a rural here where the local lawyer with the da s office will be invited to speak.

It's not formally part of the process, but he'll come and say, hey, R, D A, what's our duty here? What do D A at words? If you could just set the day chair and remind the board what we are doing today.

Thanks after h you are a canvassin the vote today this is two ninety three point three eighty seven statuary duty of the board. There's been a lot to talk about whether this is ministerial .

or not ministerial. I, when the his actually assistant to struct attorney started to speak the words coming out of his mouth or not, what anyone expects to here and they certainly .

do not seem .

to be exactly with in the statue.

But what I do think you have a duty to do a is canvas the vote and be to, uh, decide what the true results of the election are based on the evidence that you've been presented. So you don't have a duty to vote yes or no on a particular motion. You vote your conscience. I told you guys that a lot, and I think that's what you do here.

Do you think there was a different result? You not vote yes, vote no, vote your conscience.

So even though the law, according everything you've said, everything i've ever heard, says that you really do have a duty to vote to certify this prosecutor in their midst is telling them something else.

And once the words you don't have to vote yes come out of his mouth, now we have a problem for commissioner clara Andrea awami.

What did SHE do with that guidance?

Well, now clara Andrea a. Is in a real fix. She's been telling this crowd that SHE must certify her election and this crowd has been impLoring her for hours not to someone with the da s office is saying SHE doesn't have to so what did you do given the fact that um the um mr.

Read words you know cleared uh some information. In terms of our legal responsibility, there is a lot of information that has been shared that in my my opinion, warrants further investigation along with the other two republicans on the board. I am not going to certify the vote.

I ve SHE boats now. And what no means is that her own election now will not be certified. She's voted against herself.

She's voted against herself. And IT looks like commissioner Andrea by chair herman and commissioner clericy voted not to certify uh, the recount. So we will now move onto item six. And for the first time, did anyone knows, since nevada, a became a state in one hundred and sixty four, a county has failed to certify an election.

A truly remarkable moment. And if we return to that question where you started, jim, about where this denial woman stands, what does this vote by this one commission in the vata really tell us about where this movement stands?

IT shows you. And it's punctuated by the elation in the crowd that this movement has now succeeded in at least being able to block certification to do the thing Donald trump could not do in twenty twenty to stop the process. And Michael turns out IT wasn't a one off that. In fact, for the first time in our lives, we can really say this. This has been happening around the country over the last few years.

Just plain that because I don't think of this happening across the country, we have done an episode about one election board in georgia that passed some laws that's IT. yeah.

And I to say that I was surprising to me in reporting this story, how frequently this happened washout was extraordinary because they really blocked the certification. But in at least twenty counties across several states, since twenty twenty, a lot of board members have done this new thing, boat, no one certification. And I just can't stress enough how unusual this is. This has never really happened at this volume in american history.

No, when we think about the court on court success of the election, deniest movement in its own eyes, we think of IT raising doubts. We think of IT trying but fail to stop a vote count. What your suggesting is entirely different. A success that literally Marks the invalidation of an election .

is a great way to put IT because that's what the crowd in that room and the movement that believes in this overall see certification as legitimizing elections to. Blocking certification gives them that mark of shame. But it's much more important than that because if this happens in november, now we're got a real problem because next time it'll be the presidency on the line and believe IT or not, one county can affect certification all the way up to january six.

right? This, you're saying, was an election for the world's least important position, the local commissioner.

water and source.

Next time, literally IT would be for a vote to confirm the electors for the presidency.

Yeah, because every state needs to do this certification process by certain dates in the fall, ahead of the electoral college vote, ahead of the general six votes. Now we get into this whole other territory. So a problem like this is pretty major.

And I have say what happened in march coni. This isn't by accident. This is actually part of a long running COO ordinated campaign that had been taken shape for years.

We will be right back.

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So you can tell us the story of how we get to this decision in watch account not to certify this election.

I can give you a specific date again.

Yeah.

january seventh, twenty twenty one. Not the sixth, not the sixth. The it's over. IT seems that this stop the steel movement has hit an inflection point. Pretty soon, petrin will be getting under way. Social media shuts down content about stone elections, which have been running rampant, and lead up to .

jangle and kits leaders trump his campaign, sor, Steve ban and off. A lot of these major .

social media platform and thousands of others. But what happens to the anger that drove IT? It's still there to a many millions of americans.

This is a completely illegitimate election. IT can never happen again. That gets set a lot.

And the truth is the people behind january six, they failed. The elites of the even their own party failed. Biden became president, in their view, completely illegally. So a new movement really quickly starts to form shockingly quickly. And IT comes together in two different ways.

First, you have this anger, this notion that what can I do to change this? How can I, an individual, go out there and and stop this? I need to do something that's at the grass roots level.

At the same time, you have some new trump style groups forming. Money is flooding in, millions dollars of flooding in to organize this grocery harness. Harness is IT.

And again, shocking liquid. Ky, all the players, and it's pretty broad hit upon the same strategy. On january six, IT was about members of congress, a handful people, washington, maybe some state legislators.

Now it's no. The place to fix this is in my own backyard on the local level that start the certification process, not the end of. And some key figures emerged to sort of midwife this.

such as we need .

a real investigation. I don't think we have one. Yes, yes, it's true. And yes, IT is a crime. Thank you.

There's a woman. Cocreate medal are enough. What we.

Welcome to who's counting with clear mital .

who's counting with clear mital her podcast .

who's counting as in who's counting .

the votes exactly? Our goal is to build a platform for building a national infrastructure for election integrity.

And that's what clea mital had been a lawyer for the trump effort and georgia, where he was trying to overturn his twenty twenty laws. And he started a group called the election integrity network. And at this group, SHE really argues that if you want to change things, if you really want to make a difference.

you have to go local, just because they think that they, on the election offices and the leftist groups have been filled to the election officers. We're gonna take you back.

We're gonna take getting in people's faces, making the change. So that never happens again, as clear MIT will put IT in our pocket officers.

And we're going to retake our election system one party at a time all over america.

We are going to take back our elections of one county at a time. And at the same time.

this is all of a power you lay and gentleman for no money. okay?

This is all of a power designer. You remember who he is. I do president advisor. He has a podcast called war room. War room lost its youtube channel, but IT was still available on apple, and IT still had quite a big audience.

So steep ban in. There's a lot happening this week. People are getting raved up. People are getting fired up. People are getting .

matter as they should start using his podcast to say, hey, guys are all angry. You know what? I see you locally. Yb, want to do stuff. Let's go local .

at the schoolboy level, right at the at the county supervisor level, at the percent level. This is we're taking IT, where you're take this back village by village Price village.

So going right at the system at the very start of the process, and they come up with this template for this system, there's even a named for IT, the pressing strategy. And it's almost as if if you are a local activist in the community, you can take this template right off the shelf to start your own election integrity group.

So how does this template ultimately translate into action in wash accounting?

Well, to me, a fascinating story and interesting ly, a lot of its centers around one wealthy individual. His name is robber beetles, a cyp do millionaire. The thing is action.

Action actually get engaged. One to bring beals.

He discusses this strategy out the open on baLance warm podcast we need to do like a peaceful person you bringing in american Fosters and he's there in my county and beetle sees the anger in the community, share the anger in the community so now they can organize strategize in figure how to take back our country um using peaceful means through the pricing strategy and all that stuff and he becomes sort of central organizing node to take the anger and channel IT into more constructive or destructive depending on your .

view direction .

such as well for one he starts a website is called Operation and sunlight, and that's going to be the local media hub for everything. It's gonna give people like minded people feel like something, thing is wrong, a place to go to get information and maybe you in some direction.

So you know, in that articles he he had special beetles bombs and it's enumerating all these problems he thinks he's seeing there, claiming that he's dusted the county, he's caught them with the fraud, suggesting maybe there's even reckoning going on. It's just loaded up with with problem after problem that he and his like minded citizens of wash county believe they're seeing. And that in turn helps give people a place to good, maybe organized.

And you almost deputized some them to go. Let's go out there and find the fraud. Let's prove what we're saying .

once and for all .

and prove IT how for some IT becomes almost like a detective hunt, right? Like it's like a thrilling right where the local citizens can take IT upon themselves to investigate the fraud to be their own detectives, the election integrity detectives, and ended up meeting to with these election integrity .

investigators and their named .

for James homes in and Susan Venus.

And what should we know about them?

Well, well, i've always got this tendency to be an investigator.

They to describe themselves as, like citizen gram s. Sus retired, and janice runs a small bookshops, lash publishing house, slash to a printing center. We are actually visited with them and spend some time with them .

a few weeks ago because mind didn't start until after twenty twenty. And as soon as that I said, oh.

were in trouble. They didn't know each other at the beginning of all this yeah.

you tell me this. You got eighty one million votes. Yeah that didn't have just but they're both .

in the same boat because .

I know that they stole that from this county. I know that I know all the people and I know how many people turned out to the trump in with their saying isn't true.

They are convinced that there's no way, but and legitimately one wash county, there, not there. Wash accounting.

no way. And at that time, i'm going OK about anything.

and they're looking for things to do about this.

Then I started going and asking for people that we're doing election and integrity, and I hadn't met you yet. And I went to the republican party and they kept given me the wrong answers. We're not onna.

Look back at that. And I said, the hell, we're not onna. Look back that election.

How can they channel this feeling to something more constructive?

And IT took us through twenty twenty to find somebody who we, that was honest and was gonna, go look into that. And that was Robert beetles.

And they both end up meeting each other for beatles.

I looked up beatles because he had a meeting at his house, and you were signing ough for different things to do and all that. So that was my initial meeting as far as knowing.

And was that different ways to litigate twenty twenty, or going word .

for twenty twenty two, primarily IT was to investigate twenty, twenty and and what happened.

And with beetles, they start getting some assignments.

He gave us this huge stack list. I started clear up there at this, and we went all the way through IT. They start .

traveling around the accounting with these assignments.

And these were the people who vote IT.

And you were talking to them and saying, if they.

or if you could find them because they were vacant lots.

these voter lists, are they dirty? Or there is something wrong here?

There was one that google shows. This was a gold mine. B on a hill, one hundred and fifty people voted from that gold mine.

For instance, they go to a gold mine where they say there they say it's a gold mine where they see voter addresses and there saying, there no voters here.

Gold mine, there was a dorm, huge dorm over here. You and art IT burned up. IT wasn't even feasible. One thousand people voted from there in twenty twenty. okay? Then we went to the nursing homes and oh my, these people were comatose and they were listed as voting.

And they're seeing what they view is real problems with the election system. And there, to me at least, seemingly very sincere about wanting to fix things. And I want to make one note here because i've spent a lot of time over the years looking into these allegations about voting.

And often what you find is that there's a reasonable explanation for things or things that look a certain way really aren't what they look like once you go and dig into IT. And I also wanna say that I spoke with the colony. I took some of this to the colney, which said that what people don't realize is the system is built to protect voters, is not made to easily kick somebody off who may be made a mistake on m.

And there are laws around when you kick people off of roles, or maybe there are almost people who do live by a gold mine. So election administrators know that there are these problems, are fixing them all the time, that because it's a human endeavor, great. These elections are run by human beings, often overworked, underpaid workers, volunteers, the systems cRicky.

It's worked. It's delivered result after result after result. It's not perfect. So there's a constant effort to tighten things up, but there's attention .

building here together.

And JoNathan, Susan get really animated as they walk me through them.

Twenty two was when they signed us up to go out and back with we went from place to place. They had these voting sites set up. IT was in total disarray.

not only the hunting ballots, but they are studying tape accounting centers to see how the ballot are .

being counted. Their cameras, I said to twenty four hours a day, almost slot at my computer. I caught stuff.

In fact, at one point, one of them to in Venus says SHE stations herself outside of the countless center at.

like the night of the election that we stayed after yourself for what who watched .

to see if they were in to make sure that all .

the protocols are being followed to the .

way that ballots are moved in and out of the building.

So during a local election, SHE stations herself outside of the place where votes are being counted, so that he has eyes on the process .

to make sure they are doing what they're supposed to do. And wherever they look, they're seeing confirmation of their suspicions, right? They're collecting those mistakes. They're trying to send them to the right authorities at ony at the state. You guys put a report together on.

All this h but they're .

also working with beetles who's channeling all this into potential laws.

He started organizing IT, and then we started doing affidavits .

in the day he wants to the colony. He even works up the case that gets all the way to the supreme court. Of course, he himself will say that it's chance of getting heard or long, but IT gets there .

if he wouldn't have been able to bring lawsuits if be able to wouldn't be able to move forward because of is giving up as fortune.

This really does feel like a realization of that post generic vision of deputizing local people making them the tip of the spear. When IT comes to quote and quote election and ability.

it's precisely that. But I should say a lot of these lawsuits are getting totally blocked by judges. One judge literally rights about one of the cases that was quote goslar threads of winda speculation and conjecture.

And it's not just judges who are getting impatient with this activity is the election officials who are on the other side of IT. They've been indicated with request for public information often about things that aren't really problems and it's creating an extra strain on an already cooky system. On an already cRicky system is what the officials will tell you.

I think the answer from the other side is but that's how you fix IT. But the elections officials have begun to view IT as there's no amount of explaining that we can do that. Anyone on who believes that they believe organ.

Except I wonder if you ever confronted these two women with that critique, that nothing would ever satisfy and that they will always be suspicious of the system, even when credible explanations of some of the Normals your problems that they find are given to them. Well.

I did ask that question in away. How do you react a look, I have write a lot. There is no evidence for this thing like how do you react us when we say that? I think I know but .

how do we react when you say, yeah, we ignore you on what I just got to you and said.

we just ignore you. We don't get IT right because we're the same. You don't get the dog, doesn't me, doesn't bought into the system yet, part of the system.

So beyond recruiting these citizens lose, what else does this pricing strategy look like in this community?

Well, beals helped conduct this takeover of the local republican party, which there have been a lot of moderate in charge of motion county. He brings in a more far right to ability, with a lot of help, working with other activists who are angry. And the real goal is to get onto the local boards that really make decisions in the county, especially when IT comes to voting.

So you're back at this board of commissioners ers, where a story began and when beatles started, interestingly, there was one person who doubt at the twenty twenty results and voted against certification. Just one just won. One of the first people, the country, to do IT that cycle.

And he was there so but he was outvoted for the one. So the idea here is if we can get more people like us onto the board, we can have control the board. Then they would a lot to say over how voting goes and ultimate, say, over certification. So in fact, as they move forward with everything else is going on, they get behind a candidate who also says he doubts the results my clock and they succeed in the twenty twenty two mid terms in getting him onto the commissions. So now you have a five member board with two people who are ready to vote no against certification.

which, of course, brings us to that fateful july ninth meeting where Andrea a will cast the decisive third vote not to certify the election results.

yes. And now since i've been talking and talking here to you and is endlessly, you now see where what's really going on to that meaning is everything I just described as coming together into one at one place at one very critical time. And in fact, if you go back and listen to the tape from that meeting, you can hear all the traces of this.

This is the document from Operation sunlight.

You can hear references to Operation sunlight. Operation sunlight, a wonderful publication created by Robert beetles. For you can hear references to beatles himself.

We should applied mr. Beals for what he's doing. mr. Beatles has been fighting.

Not only is Robert to provided evidence and it's not done.

Good afternoon and robber beetles, please put the oh, my comments on the permanent record. thanks. I just to fact, Betters in that crowd.

Susan Venus and from the north valley, I asked to be here with me with .

the holy spirit in the crowd and the crowd there. They've similarly been .

on this ride. I've caucused, I canvas. And i've seen so much fraud and legal things going on looking .

into the fraud growing in their own concern. You guys weren't there. We are. And you're saying nothing happened. And then, of course, there's that moment when this lawyer with the district attorney's office introduced this confusing notion for Andrea that her vote on certification is in fact a, as he put IT a vote of conscience, which of course, leads her to vote against their own certification.

And what's so interesting is that you hear that same idea from a bunch of people in the room that day, this idea that you do have discretion, you're duty about to investigate this. All of you, including the D. S. Office, you can illegally certify this recount oral election. So do your job, don't certify that the board has the direction the power made, the duty to block this election, that in their view, like so many elections, now cannot be trusted.

You guys have the power to .

stop in emerging you all to use due diligence .

if there is any question of fraud, then I think IT is your duty to prove to us that there was no fraud.

And really, what that argument amounts to is a rewriting of the job because the job of certification is not a discretionary act. There's not really any law that says you can't .

do this and the citizens are asking for IT and that it's throughout .

the country for the Better part of two centuries binna anda ory act. So they're basically asking for a change. They don't see IT this way. But this is effectively what they're asking for is a change in the job and a change in the powers that board actually has, which go beyond what he does have, which is really only the ability to stamp the results and send them along.

And what ends up happening after the board makes this vote.

clara Andrea la goes back to her office. SHE tells you to me, he spends the night there. She's there to eleven o'clock.

Researching determines this was not the right thing to do. So SHE pretty icky second guesses, herselfe goa immediately, but wants to really go deeper of to serious than calls for revote. And within days they do revote.

SHE certifies, huh? SHE takes back her vote, takes back her vote. Her election goes through, along with a couple of others that were in the mix, and all would seem to be fine.

However, you may ask, and i'm going to ask for you, why are we even talking about this? Because they all got solved right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because you have to remember that there are ten thousand boding jurisdictions they are going to face the same situation this fall. And it's gonna be much of sticks, and it's gna be much more pressure cooker. You could so easily to have another lawyer whose being indicated with questions about what is this, we are duty.

Why do we have the certification? What's the point? Give similarly bad advice and another board could not certify. In fact, a lot of voting rights lawyers are getting for this to happen in in a number of places that wants. So this is in fact a cautionary tale.

Okay, but here's why I think it's important that we push on the guard rails that do exist. I can't think of an example. Maybe you can or the courts have allowed anything like this too.

Stand right? The courts are the final arbiters when IT comes to local election commissions, losing sight of their actual legal obligation and deciding, yeah, they do have this discussion when they don't. So isn't that a prey? Strong built in layer of protection within our system despite how concerning everything you're going out here is.

well, I do have to say is and long time election lawyers who are looking at this say, okay, judges will come in, they will make this happen. So there's assistance in place. And in fact, there's even a new law post january six, the congress drafted to make IT even easier to get these situations to the court as fast as possible.

But the fear is that you're going to have some judge somewhere who doesn't want to move at that fast. Or maybe there are questions about how direction is, what right to support have. And then you start dragging things that what if some board members say, okay, judge, you can tell us that we have to do this, but we refused. Now what do you have or you're gonna prosecutions that's gonna look not good, right, right? Especially after all the years of trump s trials.

okay. I have a final question along these lines of but weight, if Donald trump winds on tuesday, how mood is all of this? Because if he wins, presumably these people might be very happy to certify. And we don't really have any of these showdowns that were contempt here.

I think you're right on the certification part, but I asked that question a lot to people spoke with in all these states and again and again the end was surprisingly know that the trump Victory is not gonna convince ce them that everything's okay there was among some people this idea that it's a system and if trump wins this because I was too big, r boat was too big to rig, the trump support was too big rig. And I actually ask Susan and janice is question with .

top wins, then this problem .

goes away, right? No.

IT doesn't like IT.

They came down in a similar place.

They said, in fact, the .

system is bad, not can be shaken from that.

I'm not going to say I don't support truth, I do. But that's not my motivation. My motivation is we need to have our own camp. My grandkids need to know that when they got a vote, when they're old enough, that it's really gonna mean something. I mean.

that's we're on coming from. And in so far as they believe that, it's interesting how much they're ultimately parading what trump said. And we have spent a lot of time in this conversation describing a deputizing of local people to question the system, and that clearly seems very important.

But at the end of the day, IT is Donald trump who has created the stop the steal movement. And IT is Donald trump who repeat IT and amplify IT. I mean, I can show you a tweet from we're taping on wednesay october thirty a that doll trump sent out within the past few hours describing falsely widespread cheating in pensylvania. And when Susan and genes say what they told you, they're repeating him. He remains the single most important person in this movement.

Well, he's actually really an ava tar of a movement that predates him.

Just there's long .

bin and we've covered IT. I think i've done daily episodes about IT, a conservative movement, much smaller, more layering. That said, there's great fraud in this country which does not stand up to true fact checking, right? But under that argument, they worked to restrict voting laws and vote, vote.

They're trying to make strict laws about IT. But what prompt did was he took IT all, as the saying goes, to eleven, right? He took IT to this other place.

And this isn't a continuation of conservative legal arguments about voting rights in this country. This is about the machinery of democracy. The machinery of democracy has been functioning pretty well for the Better part of two centuries. Questioning things that have never really been questioned before, like certification.

And I think I fair to say, no matter what happens to trump next week, that is a huge element of his legacy.

I do not see this just going away. It's too strong. It's too resistant to everything else or the other evidence. It's come along. And IT makes me think that if he were to lose and he wakes up the next morning and he decides he wants to accept that he wants to concede, I really don't think if he were to go out and tell his people drop .

IT except IT don't .

fight IT anymore, that I don't think sire, to block certification, the belief that it's just not right, I don't think that goes away. And therefore, I don't think he could stop this even if you tried.

Jim, thank you very much.

Thanks for having me.

Movie right back. After the movie free Willy became a hit, word got out that the star of the film a killer l in cake o was sick and still living in a tiny pool in a mexican amusing park. Fans were outraged.

Kids demanded his release on productions in the new york times comes the goods whale, a story about the wildly ambitious science experiment to return k, go to the ocean, listen to new episode thurs. Early access to the whole show subsequent to the times n times dom flash, to listen on apple podcast and spotify. Here's what else you need to know today. In another last minute showdown, coma Harris, a sale Donald truck for reMarks that he made on the campaign trail about women.

We ago I to prove the people. I want to protect the women of our country. I want to protect the women, sir. Please don't say that why they said we think is we think is very inappropriate for during a rally .

in was concerned on thursday night, trump recounted how his advisers had urged him to stop claiming that he would protect women. I said, well, i'm gonna do IT whether the women like IT or not, i've got to protect them. Harris, who is eager to turn out as many women voters as possible, quickly seized on his reMarks as further evidence of trump's potential ism and his desire to take rights away from women.

Listen, it's just IT actually is, I think, very offensive two women, in terms of not understanding their agency, their authority, they're right, and their ability to make decisions about their own lives, including their own bodies. And this is just the latest on a series of reveals by the former president of how he thinks about women.

Remember, you can catch a new episode of the interview right here tomorrow. This week, David mark key speaks with the philosophy Peter singer.

I have set up a Peter singer, A I, and so on my website, you can connect to A A chatbot who has been trained on all of my works and actually does remarkably well, channeling my views to people.

With that, the great .

today's episode was produced by rob zip co, asta charvet a croppy and mary Wilson IT was edited by Michael ben war and portugal willains with help from Chris haxo IT was fat checked by wheel partial, contains original music by dian war, maria lizana eliza, a youtube Sophia man, and then power, and was engineered by Chris wood and eliza xy artha music is by jim runne g and the landforms a wonderly.

That's IT for the daily. I'm mug of oral. See you on monday.