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Do you agree with you guys being zhi nan? I mean, I'm still trying to understand the concept, honestly. I don't know if it's like an insult or like, I mean, she kept backtracking. She's like, no, no, no, it's a compliment. But it was like everything that she said, like, oh, they're simple and this and this and this. And like your wife thinks, I'm just like, what? Yeah, Julia, well, Julia didn't want to offend us because she's such a sweet person. Yeah. I don't know, zhi nan, it's like I never really thought about it. But according to her, I'm like very zhi nan. Yeah.
According to her, you are number one out of us three. But I don't see myself as that. But maybe that's exactly what a Zenon person would say, right? Yeah. But to some degree, I got the feeling that you agree with that assessment of yourself a little bit.
a little bit no I was disagreeing remember I was saying like I'm like really like you know he was going out of his way to prove that he was not yeah especially when she's like not only do I think you're Junaid but I talked to your wife and she said you're Junaid and I'm like well I'm doing something wrong
Well, according to her, because we're taking it from a very Western perspective where there's a negative connotation to that. According to her, she's saying that it's not a negative thing. Yeah. Right? In the Chinese context. If anything, it's preferred. Is that coconut? Mm-hmm. Well, I'm snacky and I eat.
It's not like I snack and then I'll eat dinner. I snack and then I eat a huge dinner. But I do feel like you're very Chan based off of the definition. Is it Chan or Chan? Chan. Because Eric, what it means is that whenever food is mentioned or in front of him, he'll never reject it. And that is a form of like a gluttony. I've actually never heard of Chan until today. No one's ever said that to me.
But you know all about Sa Jiao then. I know all about Sa Jiao. You are the king of Sa Jiao. And randomly also Zhi Nan. That's a very weird combo, right? He's Zhi Nan and he's Sa Jiao. No, no, I'm the victim of Sa Jiao. Yeah, you're the victim of Sa Jiao.
That was fun, though. We got to use a little bit of Chinese on this one, which is good. There's a lot of Chinese in this one. Listeners, after listening to this episode, let us know. Did you really enjoy this one? Do you want us to start using more Chinese on this show? Is that something you guys would like or not? Let us know. Our guest today was Julia. She's a great friend of the show. It's always such a great and fun time talking to her. She's like part of us. Yeah, I agree. So without further ado.
Here we go! A friend of the show. Welcome, Julia. Welcome, Julia. Hello! Hello! Hello, guys. Hello. This is funny because Julia...
Is our realtor. Yep. Yeah. So she helped us find this studio. She's helped all of us and our friends find great apartments in Shanghai. So we formed this friendship and bond with Julia, I think, over the years. And she's been such a wonderful person for us and such a great resource, but also really just great to talk to. So welcome.
开始啦。 开始啦。 开始啦。 这么突然。 而且我们今天也是想。 我们偷偷摸摸地开始。 好的。 我们想,我们其实想看看这个 bilingual, right? Like this bilingual conversation. Julia is going to use mostly Chinese. 好的,好的。 这样我会更自然。 对。 Well,
Well, wait, can we, can she do a quick self intro? Yeah. Do a quick self intro. Because like, I'll just, I'll just, I'll add one thing, right? Cause there's like multiple facets to Julia, but what impresses me and what has impressed me over the years is,
is that like, yeah, you know, there's this whole like searching for real estate kind of thing. But it's like when you actually get into the conversation, like she's so fascinating, right? Like, you know, she is a businesswoman. She started her own business. Like, you know, she, you know, got her MBA and like, and just her thinking is very, very different. She's got a very curious mind. Yeah, the mindset. So I'm just kind of curious, like if how she wants to introduce herself, right? Thank you for the introduction. Yeah.
I have to. 我是来着。 Eric 喜欢 put people on the spot. On the pedestal. 就我很开心来这儿, 因为三个我认识的大男生, 然后呢跟你们聊, 然后跟你们聊我会很开心, 所以也谢谢这个机会。 我
我在上海,09 年到了上海,现在第 15 年了。 我爱这个城市,也爱在这个城市里看到的人。 我也是你们的 fans 很久很久了。 先是认识 Justin,然后开始听你们的节目,也看到了你们的成长。 也很有幸你们的 studios 都是我找的。 对,所有的 studios 都是你们找的。 对,对对对。
所以我也是在跟着这个城市和我的生活一起成长,所以很开心做一个中文 speaker 来到你们的这边,希望也能给节目带来一点不一样的想法,希望能做到。 那从你个人的角度,你会不会希望我们多用一点中文?
我觉得上海的听众或者是国际的听众也是很多的。 我觉得中文可以给你们带来不一样的想法和不一样的嘉宾, 可以把一些问题也许会聊得更深入, 也许会从不同的文化角度去想。 我觉得是可以值得尝试的。 Well, okay, let me ask you this. We're going to use English and Chinese, right? Yeah, we're going to mix it up. Yeah, we're going to mix it up. Just be natural, right? But so, like, it seems like a lot of the listeners are...
able to understand, like, at least part of the show, right? Like, 我经常听到,就是那个,那个 comments 里面,然后, like, the most common comment is like, 哇,我果然这次,基本上都能听懂,right? So...
我能听懂 70% Yeah, and then they're like really happy, right? And so I think like just getting exposed to different languages kind of cool, right? So for you, like number one is like when you listen to the show, like because your English is really good and you study a little bit in the US, like how much can you understand and what are the parts that you can't understand?
Actually, my English is not so good. It's not my major. But mostly if I don't listen carefully, maybe I can get 80 to 90%? Yeah.
90, 95% 那你这个已经是 That's a lot 很高 就是对我来说已经不是练英文了 而且我工作中也碰到很多外国人 所以对我来说英文可能听不是一个 practice 我可能是想了解它的内容 比如说你们讲到一个话题 我想看这个餐厅是怎么运营的 它碰到了什么问题 那我可能是为了内容而听 我不是为了学英语去听 对 所以我还是对你们的话题是感兴趣的 Okay
Yeah, but I think to Eric's point, I think something you hinted at earlier, when you listen to our podcast, you feel like you're using too much energy. If I don't listen to the teacher carefully, I can't use it as my work background.
Because we have this debate, right? So the debate is kind of we're starting to hint at which is like we're an English language show.
but we're based like what our audience is very much like english is their second or third language and but we're based in shanghai and then we're like okay well what if we had more chinese-speaking guests right but then we would have to shift some of the language in the show and we were debating the merits of that yeah because it's it's kind of like if you were in like
if you were in the U S and let's say like you were a Chinese language show and you're just like, and you're in the U S right. And you're in a Chinese language show and all our guests are in Chinese. Then you miss out on all of the English speakers in America. And then you think like in China, like how many interesting people they are. And part of it is like, we want to bridge the gap. We want to really understand China better for ourselves as well. And like, then we don't have access to a lot of these people. And today's a little bit of an experiment because like,
there is a hybrid as well. Because if the guests can understand English perfectly, then we can use both languages and they can kind of speak both languages. But think about how many like great Chinese guests there are that can't speak English and they can't understand English. Then we can't get into some of those topics. So it's kind of a debate, you know? Yeah. And I can mention that we tried once doing a mostly Chinese episode.
If you remember. And we sounded so dumb. Yeah. And we've done more than one though. Yeah. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Catherine, Catherine, exactly. But what I'm saying is that I remember seeing like some people's comments. Cause remember we had a survey and, and I,
I don't know if it was a survey or if it was left in the comment section. It was a survey. But some people said, yeah, you guys are much more eloquent in English. I mean, but we are. I do feel 你们三个人其实中文挺好的。 你们在中国也生活了十多年。 所以其实有的时候我跟 Eric 聊天, 他所说的中文的深度其实让我觉得很好呀。 但是他不代表我们三个。 你有你的。 他的中文是最好的。 没有啦。 没有,因为...
No, you always say this. 并不是。 It's different style. 就比如说像,在工作当中,用中文最多的不是我,是 Howie。 At work, I use like 99% English.
And yet your Chinese is still better than his. No, I don't know. He reads. No, I don't read in Chinese. I can't read in Chinese. But Howie actually leads teams and produces work in Chinese. So I think your Chinese is also fine. I actually think it's okay. I think maybe day-to-day communication, it's fine. My biggest problem, it's not a problem, just concern, I guess, in terms of confidence.
in bringing on, let's say, a guest that can't speak any English at all, is that it's not really about the guest. It's more about us or me. I'll speak for myself. The dynamic. It's the dynamic and it's the interviewing skills. Because I have a hard enough time trying to express my honest thoughts in English. I have a hard enough time doing that already in my native tongue.
Now, if I were to switch to Chinese, it'll just get even worse. I mean, that's just the reality. I get it. I mean, yeah, I might be thinking it's worse than it is, but nonetheless, the reality is it will not be as good as in my English. So I'm just worried about the quality of the overall conversation droppings.
You know, I would love to get more Chinese guests on the show. I have nothing against that at all. I'm just worried about, are we still going to be able to, number one, I'm worried about two things. One is, are we still going to be able to do as good of a show and have as good of a conversation? And two, what do our listeners really want to hear? I mean, we're in China. That's true. But there's so many great Chinese podcasts, Chinese language podcasts out there.
Why swim in their ocean? And why not stick to our lane and do what we're good at? I mean, I'm just playing... I'm just arguing both sides. Let's throw the ball to... Let's let Julia respond to that. And I...
Anyways First day I would say Don't worry Be happy Just do yourself Yeah Yeah First day that Don't worry Don't worry Be happy I love saying that Don't worry Be happy Yeah You should play that song right now Yeah Actually Julia also is like 心里血 You send for us Yeah I love female
Very much so. 我们 EQ 太低了。 还有就是你刚刚提到那个问题, 我觉得讲中文真舒服。 其实很多的这种节目, 但是我觉得,
我在乎的是你的想法,你脑袋里的东西,而不是你用英文或者英文来表达。 所以你刚刚担心有那么多的节目讲中文的,为什么我? 因为你是 Justin 啊,因为你是 Howen,因为你是 Eric 啊,我要听的是你们的成长背景所带给我的东西。 所以你们就是这一点就是 special 的。 我觉得语言只是一个呈现,只要你的 audience 可以听得懂就可以了。
但是我担心那么多。 我担心的就是如果我用中文,全中文的话, 我很多东西可能就表达不出来。 你的中文水平就跟我的英文水平一样, 我对我的时候也会被人笑, 但是我觉得你的那种比如说 ABC 的一种一些说法, 其实还蛮好笑的,就是在你的, 就是我们有时候小时候…… 比如……
比如我们小时候看港台明星的他的一些笑话,他的一些笑点我们 get 不到,就是你的脑袋说出来的那些话是我们 get 不到的点,这反而是你的特色,你所理解的他不够深度,但其实是从你的角度。
为什么? 为什么? 为什么?
But I, okay, I remember last time when we met up and hung out, we talked about a lot of funny stuff. And actually, you brought up, 你刚才提到就是,有的时候因为我们的想法可能会跟本地人会有点不一样。
然后包括有一些幽默感是有一点不一样 那我在想就是 你记得我们上一次他说的什么东西 你笑出来了 然后你就说就好奇怪 有这个点 有吗 有但我忘记是什么了 我也忘了 What about that whole like 直男 thing
直男份。 Yeah, that's it. Oh, I looked up 直男 on the way because I didn't... Oh, 撒娇 also. Oh, yes. But 直男 I looked up because I didn't really know the definition. I still don't know. 但是我不知道翻译的准不准。 她说就是一个 straight man. 就是直接翻译。 是用百度翻译的。 她就说 straight man. Well, let's put context to this. Why are you talking about 直男 right now? I don't know. 你为什么提到直男? Last time it came up. I don't even know how it came up last time. Do you know how it came up? 因为她说你...
我真的不知道。
我有当面问安,Eric 是不是直男? 安的回答是,Eric 在直男里面是战斗机级别的。 I totally agree. It's just like very aggressive. 战斗机是 fighter class? Yeah, like combative. Okay, so what is it though? Because I always just thought it meant you're straight. So I was like, okay, yeah, okay, fine. It's like, I mean, I don't care, but like, it's fine, right? But it's not, it has nothing to do with your... 对啊,所以直男的意思是什么呢?
Basically, it's like an insult.
It's not an insult. It's not an insult. It's even a good... No, you don't even think like... It's almost like toxic masculinity, is it? Yes, that's what it is. Toxic masculinity. 但是在国外,在美国, toxic masculinity 你知道这个,你听过这个吗? 可以帮我解释一下吗? 就是... 就是...
非常 man,但是超过一个程度,就是说 like you're very... No, it's the stereotype of what a man should be. Okay, 第一在国外,toxic masculinity 这个 term 呢, is a very negative term.
我觉得直男其实没有那么 negative 了。 Okay, it's different. 没有那么,对。 她其实很多女生还是喜欢直男的, 因为直男简单, 就我来说我觉得直男很简单。 Okay, okay, so let's continue 描述, let's not interrupt. 然后就是不太会哄女孩子。
然后不太会创造浪漫 大概是这些 我也有去思考的 Not romantic, right? Don't understand women Don't know how to coddle them Why would they want us? Don't know how to communicate Because
Because this kind of man is simple. It's like, 男人不坏女人不爱。 It's like, 反过来, right? 我有问一个小姑娘, 20 多岁的小姑娘, 然后她跟我说, 直男的, 我不完全同意这个观点, 她说直男的对面可能, 他什么都会, 他就是渣男了。 渣男你们懂吗? 我知道, 渣男就是花心啊, 嘰咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕咕�
Okay. Like a Casanova. Okay, so if you were that smooth, then they wouldn't want you because then you would be in bed with every other girl. Yeah, you're a smooth talker. Smooth operator. It's kind of an underhanded kind of... Yeah, it's not a good thing. It's not a good thing. I'm not taking it as a good thing. As a guy, you want to be known as a zhanan. Yeah. Well, without the negative part. Without the negative part. Because it's like toxic masculinity. So, I feel like...
And this is an interesting topic. 就是文化的差异。 还有男女的差异。 比如说我讲水, right? 因为是个很简单的 concept, water, 水, it's the same thing. There's not really a huge difference, right? But if you say like toxic masculinity, how do you translate it into Chinese? 然后你说直男怎么 translate it into English?
So I think it's fascinating, the cultural difference and going back to what Julia was saying about the show is that people are interested in how we see the world, even from a language point, a linguistic point of view. Yeah. Because a lot of things don't directly translate from Chinese to English or vice versa. And,
And so it relies on, I think what you're saying is kind of like not only your individual perspective, but the cultural perspective on how you translate that meaning across cultures. - And it brings a lot of potential judgment and bias. So like the whole zhennan thing and the zhanan thing and all that stuff, right? It's that cultural context, but also it's like the judgment of society and where it leans too. 'Cause some of these terms like toxic masculinity didn't exist a hundred years ago.
It didn't even exist 15 years ago. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But I never felt like I was toxic masculinity. You're so toxic. So, Julia, do you feel like I'm more of a man when you listen to our show? No, hold on. Man is not toxic masculinity. Yeah, it's not the equivalent. It's not the same. I think you're pretty straightforward and simple. Okay. Not listening to your show. Just stupid, right? Just stupid, right? Just stupid.
That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm hearing too. 笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨笨
Yeah, but... Okay. So what about, like...
So the people, like the guys around you, right? So what's, if you're not, 如果你不是渣男, 你也不是直男, 有没有别的 category? 就 Howie。 后卫这种就是情商很高, 他很能 get 我们女生的点, 知道你现在想, 所以他比较女性化吗? 是这样,他个性, 他小把, 这跟女性化没有关系, 他就是,他 EQ 高, 他可以很快的, 他可以 get 你的情绪, 这个是什么?
We have me, Justin, I have low EQ. That's why we fight all the time. Because we have low EQ. We're always fighting, right? You never get in on the fights. That explains it. It's not about... He's just very conflict adverse. So he avoids conflict. Me and you, we're less so. Right. Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Interesting. You feel we can be good... JMA. Oh my God. You're calling me... You're one of the girls. You're one of the sisters. I'm a JMA.
I'm a jiemei. 完了,这个节目得罪人都被剥了。 So would you rather be a zi nan or a jiemei? That's really the question now. Either, I don't care. So maybe I'm kind of happy with the zi nan now. You're really happy with the zi nan now. I'm okay with the zi nan now. Look, if I didn't make it into the elite zha nan category, fuck, I don't care. So, 如果是十个男生里面, 假如是十个男生里面,
OK, 100 个男生里面,有多少的比重是渣男? 有多少的比重是直男? 有多少的比重是 something else?
我没有认识那么多人 但我觉得大部分男生还是蛮直男的 不是那么多 就是有 EQ 就是懂得去关心女生 或懂她的点的人还是蛮少的 That's bullshit I'm like 关心 like a mofo 你是小众 No no She says I'm 直男 My wife says I'm 直男 But I'm like 关心 like crazy I made her coffee this morning I mean like To me
I'm like, so strong. She's laughing because who the... That makes you good? If you think I'm like Zhenan now, you don't even know me before we got married. I was like fucking like, you know, iron rod Zhenan. Like, I didn't give a shit, you know?
你会做表格,你会做很多。 So what are some of the qualities of 子楠, besides just like, I don't know how to talk with 红女生,还有什么? He is good at that.
Are you good at it? No, no, no. Howie. Because you said, okay, you just said I'm more like a sister. I didn't say that. You said it yourself. I think you understand girls better. You almost said it. You're like, I heard it. You're like, I heard it. That's sister. Come on. I heard it. My EQ is very high. I can guess. You can understand me very well. For example, I might be stuck now. You will help me. He will immediately feel my emotions. Then come to help. That's it. So, this is the concept of a straight man to a man.
女生方面有没有女生的侄男呢? 女生是侄女,我觉得... 侄女是什么样子? 我觉得像我这样也还蛮侄女的,就是有什么说什么,不太去粉饰。 哦,北方人。 东北人嘛,东北人不是这样吗? 就比较直接的。 我知道你是南方人,但是... 对,但是就是...
我觉得 Anne 也是侄女啊 我觉得 Anne 也是啊 她又就是一根筋 就是我觉得 simple 没有什么好 我觉得就你直接说我也直接回 她跟我觉得是 cultural difference 不是说就是呆呆的 不是这种意思 就是我们是很简单的直来直往的 我觉得挺好的 我觉得我也是侄女 就比如说我问一个女生 我说你帮我 她说如果我要叫一个男生帮我开水 我就不喝这个水大不了 我觉得这就一个很侄女的表现 我大不了就不喝 我可以忍啊
你说要让那个男生去帮他开水的话 她喜欢撒娇 要到撒娇了 不是就是你刚才说的那个 example 是一个子女的一个表现 对 她可能就宁愿我不要这个东西 或者我也不想去 就比较简单一点 她就觉得不用男生的帮助 是吗 对 有的时候 也不是这个意思 不是 就简单一点啊 你的 EQ 怎么那么低啊 真是这么直男啊 真是
她找到机会说你的。 Yeah, 她很喜欢找这种机会。 But I do think it's interesting because I've heard that term thrown around a lot and I never understood what it meant. So now, like when I hear it, I can like think about what context, you know, I can learn about that word because it seems like it's used a lot. I mean, I hear it a lot. 直男和直男癌不一样。 直男癌, okay?
Cancer 它是有一点 negative 的 但直男现在我觉得它不是一个便宜词 而且我觉得很多男生不懂什么叫直男 这周我有问我老公 他也说 问我先生他也说不知道什么叫直男 可能在你们眼里就是 straight man 所以直男的人根本就不知道直男 That's the definition of 直男 有可能 就笨笨呆呆的嘛 也不一定是笨笨呆呆的 Simple 干玩笑 很直接 就不用想那么多 不会那么头痛
这样也好啊,所以说女生很多是喜欢直男的,因为这种人比较简单,就是很简单,你不用去担心他会有太多。 一就一嘛,二就二嘛。 但我觉得有,这东西不是那么黑白的,ok? And the reason is that it's like...
Zhi Nan, in that particular area, we don't think... I mean, it's like we're not simple in terms of other areas of our life. There are certain areas of life where maybe I'm very...
Like I think a lot about it, all the different angles, right? But in terms of my relationship, like with my wife or something, I'm not going to like play all these games because I don't want to, right? So I think like, it's interesting how a lot of guys are perceived as zhenan and they're just like simple, but it's like, that doesn't represent us in every facet of our life.
就不要偷痛 就不會玩遊戲嘛 那直男是不是也不懂不懂浪漫呢? 是
你懂浪漫对吗? 我觉得我脑筋里面是懂的,但是我不会表现出来,大部分的时间不会表现出来。 但是你要我真正的去浪漫,I think I can, I know what to do, but I just don't do it most of the time. 什么是浪漫?比如说,什么可以去呈现出来浪漫? 行动,what is 浪漫?
就是小到一个抱抱亲亲或者大到一个你 set 一个什么样的 surprise 我觉得都是 I do that shit all the time 我天天都抱抱亲亲的 Eric's like 我一直抱抱亲亲 I check everything up on the list 我一直抱抱亲亲 我一直抱抱亲亲
I made her coffee in the morning and I... Yeah. Coffee in the morning. And then you have that... Dude. Like when the phone rings and it's Justin's wife, he's like...
Like, normally he's like, wait, yeah. And then his wife calls her, it's like, oh, oh. Normally it's like, young Joe. And then he'll be like, no, yeah, we're almost done. I'm coming back. All right. I'm coming back. All right.
I think it's pretty common even here too, right? The way people react. 就是如果老公老婆打电话过来,突然... 声音都会变。 对,声音变啊。 不是每个人声音都会变。 是吗? 但是也得看这老公老婆多少年了。 那我可不可以... Okay, 换个角度。 Okay, so we just talked about 直男 from your perspective, and 直女, right? And...
We haven't really talked about, from our perspective, what our sort of, I guess, classifications are in terms of a male or a female. Like stereotypes? Stereotypes, exactly. So in terms of like for us, what do you think? So like we can start with like guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the popular classifications. Okay.
Well, so we... Like, 男生去看男生, right? Yeah, definitely there is the... We call it the player. And that's like the 渣男 guy. The player. 因为他很喜欢 play, like... 玩女生。 Or 男生。 他就当泡妞像个游戏一样。 But it could be, I mean, anything, right? It could be like... There's a player on...
You can be a player regardless of your orientation. Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wonder if there's a more modern term for that or people still use player. Player? Yeah, it's like so 90s, right? Yeah. I don't know. I think it's pretty common. But I feel like from the Western 角度, I feel like when we were growing up, it was more of a time where maybe there were these like stereotypes of like, okay, the stereotypical man, the women, you can classify more.
I don't know. I get the feeling nowadays in this younger generation in the States and in the West, these stereotypes have completely gone out the window. I don't know if they would even accept these stereotypes anymore. Right. Society has changed so much. There's no buckets anymore. Yeah.
And I don't know if that's like the reality or just the mindset around it, you know, or the conversation around it. I don't know. 中国有很多网络用语,这都是年轻人用的一些网络用语,还是蛮 popular 的。 比如说? 就我们刚刚说的这些,还有一些什么 YYDS 啊这种语。
What is YYDS? 永什么? 大神? 永远大神什么? 永远的神 What does that mean? 是拼音的缩写 No, no, no,我知道 永远的神是什么意思呢? Search 一下 Forever the God? 就是说他很厉害 很厉害 很厉害 很经典的一个大神 很厉害的 很牛的一个东西 Like New Balance
Knowability. 對,就是奧森這種特別好。 所以如果是說,比如說 Justin 的這種 hosting, 主持這個 podcast, 那你是不是 YYDS? 是,你們都是。 YYDS, Justin. Alright, this show, this episode is called, is brought to you by YYDS. Okay. Well, actually, I feel like 現在...
In the West, at least in American culture, the use of alpha and sigma and beta male is used a lot. Really? Yeah, I've seen that. Say more about that. So the alpha male is the leader, the confident, the...
the uh take control kind of guy right yeah the more confident yeah wants to control others yeah and then you have a dominant yeah dominant and then you have the sigma male which is more like self-reliant um like uh kind of like a like a homebody like doesn't care about women doesn't care about anything isn't sigma supposed to be like the rarest of the men
I don't know if it's the rarest, but here it says independent and self-reliant, similar to an alpha but outside the social hierarchy. And then the beta male is the right-hand man to the alpha, reserved but reliable. But beta also people also in the negative context is...
they're pushovers yeah it's very yeah well you're subordinate yeah yeah it seems pretty narrow though right like you're just covering like some of the extremes like most people wouldn't fit under these categories and it's like also context specific of course of course but these but but now these days in social media it's all about simple definitions right you have to categorize simply yeah i always like i think and i've definitely i haven't heard of sigma but like alpha beta i mean that's like
People have used that for a long time, probably in different contexts. But if I think about the Sigma, I always admired the Sigma. Yeah. Like, they just did their own thing. March to the beat of their own drummer kind of thing. I feel like he's a bit Sigma, actually. Yeah, he's a bit Sigma. He's a little bit Sigma. Justin? I've been hearing more and more about Sigma mills in social media when they talk about this stuff. It's usually like talking about the Sigma mill. That's where I heard it's more rare. It's like the hot girls, like, you know, all the guys are like drooling over and the Sigma mill's like, I don't give a fuck.
fuck. Yeah. Who are you? You know, like wants to be outside of the system. Yeah, exactly. Like, like, like, like have their own place, like, you know, their own grid, whatever. Yeah. The lone wolf guy. Hike and, you know, live in a tent. Yeah. So that's the, the, the, I guess the main three things.
Is the Sigma, the Beta, and the Alpha. 但是这种不是说经常用,不像什么直男什么的。 但是 Alpha 这个,就是 top dog 是经常被用的。 从你们女生的角度跟其他女生交流, 会不会有这样的一些话题,或者有没有这样的想法? 你会去归类不同的女生吗? 不会。 当然会。 哪一种归类? 就任何一种归类。
Okay, I know a lot of people think that Shanghai girls are some kind of people. Recently, the buzz is not very hot. There are probably a few types of Shanghai girls like the boss. I didn't watch it, I just watched some clips. But like Miss Wang and Linzi, they are different types of Shanghai girls. What about this kind of girl group?
她是比较强势一点或者是比较小女生一点的这种 那肯定还是会 But 就比如说像北方 like
北方女生,南方女生,不同的地方上海女生,right? 你在不同的朋友圈里面会有这样子一些分类吗? 我觉得南方女生会相对柔弱一点,或者表面上温柔一点,或者说会撒娇一点, 但北方女生其实她们性格也很直爽,也挺好的。 谁会撒娇一点? 南方相对来说,像台湾女生就非常的温柔这样子。
你应该没见过我撒娇吧 你哪里会跟我撒娇呢 我应该一般不太会 不太会吗 这个要问一下你老公才知道 可以问他 We need to get him here, call him right now He's like all the time Every day, just this morning Right now, just to get me over Okay, so here's a question about 撒娇 Is 撒娇 a negative term?
Now, for me, I think it's a cute term. But sometimes it can be a little annoying. We talked about it last time. I always feel that in English, or even in other languages, you can't find the translation of 撒嬌. Even in Cantonese, I asked some friends, and it seems like there's no standard translation of this word. 撒嬌, what's 撒嬌 in English then? Let's think about this. 撒嬌跟 哄
是 like just the opposite, right? 不是 opposite,就是说 like cause and effect. Kind of, right? 撒娇 is the action, 哄 is the response.
嗯,他们不是一直在一对,他们可以做一对,但是撒娇应该不止只有这样一个意思。 OK,还有什么意思呢? OK, give us three examples of 撒娇,三个场景。 你们先想一想英文应该怎么说呢? 我觉得这样可以去了解他用英语翻译出来的想法和定位和他后面的逻辑。 OK,但是你先中文解释一下撒娇,这个可以帮助我们去想一个英文的翻译吗?
撒娇它是一种表达的方式,我觉得是表达他的情绪,表达他的需求,就是他可能要说出来他想要做什么或者是他现在想要什么。 撒娇当然有可能是我想要得到什么东西去要,但他也有可能只是说我自己觉得现在想要表达这样一种情绪和我舒服去要做。 而且撒娇,
我查了一下英文,它有 spoiled like a spoiled child 就是 spoiled 就有一點好像說它有點 negative 的意思,對不對? 對,在美國會有點 negative 就是我沒有看到一個比較精確的詞,所以想問問你們來著 對我來說,主要是一種
比如说我老婆。 I feel like she's just trying to be cute, and she's trying to...
跟我比较密切一点。 It's like a cute, affectionate thing. To me, it shows affection. The proper definition of, or translation of 撒娇 is acting coquettishly. What? Or being coquettish. What's coquettish? It's like a flirtatious, playful behavior. There's definitely playfulness to it. So like if you, like...
Because coming up with an exact definition, if it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist, right? But what are the elements of it? We can kind of like narrow down. So playfulness is one of them, right? Like another one is sort of like this kind of cuteness, right? Like childishness, but not in necessarily a bad way. It's definitely not like Lao Tzu behavior. You know what I'm saying? Although Lao Tzu could...
撒娇, but it's more reminiscent of a child's behavior. So there's this cuteness, playfulness, right? And then I think there's an affection to it. Affection 就是一些相...
情感 情感 对对对 Yeah it is Actually it's very much To me It's like acting like a child almost But not like In a really negative way But it is Like if a girl was to be 哦你帮我开一瓶水嘛 It's like Your tone and your manner Is all gonna be like More like a child Can you do that one more time? 哦你帮我开一瓶水嘛 我自己开不了 So I think like 我自己开不了 You had to add that
Yeah, it's kind of like, so I see one sort of version. It's like acting flirty and cute to get what you want. But it's a small thing, right? You're not going to be like, give me 100 yuan. Or maybe, maybe they would. I don't know, right? Who knows?
我觉得这个肯定有发生过。 That's very toxic masculinity. 为什么都是女生要这样子,男生也可以。 对啊。 Because I do it at home. 给老婆撒娇什么。 给我弄点 hot chocolate。 所以你们三个人说的就是, 让我感觉就是你们觉得撒娇就是一种 please 你们的一种方式。 其实撒娇有可能是他这个人自己的需求。
并不一定是女生对男生, 又可是男生对女生, 或者是小孩对大人, 或者大人对小孩, 就是他不一定是为了让你开心, 有可能是这个人自己想要开心, 或者他在他的很舒服的一个... 就是啊,就是说让你帮我做一件事情, 明明我自己可以做, 但是这个是让, 就说两个人更...
拉近一点 明明我可以自己去做我的 own hot chocolate but then I'm like oh baby can you get you know do hot chocolate whatever right yeah I can see Eric's hot y'all non-stop just like yeah but the thing is like couples do it like
Like with each other. Like Anne actually has a sound that she developed when she was a kid that she uses to saja with her parents. Do the sound right now. No. Do it. Can't do it. Please. But it's funny because my niece also makes a similar sound. And I was like, wait, whoa. Like where did you get that from? Yeah, it's like childlike behavior. Yeah, yeah, yeah, childlike behavior. 你们想一想为什么孩子最容易撒娇?
Why? 因为他们是需要大人的帮助。 那你有没有觉得他们是在一个最安全的环境里面? 他们会觉得,他们其实,其实他知道你会给他这样一个回应的。 但其实如果你不给他这样一个回应,他可能以后就不给你撒娇了。 但是其实你不是说一定要给他一个...
东西他才愿意给你撒娇, 他是自己心理上的一种需求。 我觉得就是因为小朋友他这样子撒娇的时候, 其实他并不能控制自己。 It's a very natural way to be. 但是呢,大人,成人, 他们撒娇的时候其实也是, It's like they're trying to be like a kid, like you said, Justin, because that's what kids...
That's like the easiest way to equate getting what you need, right? A child to adult to the parent. And so when an adult does it, it's like they're envisioning themselves as that kid again. And their 对方 is like that adult again. I just had this image of like,
Like in the US, it's like the cop stops a speeding car, right? And then the window rolls down. It's like, hi, officer. Yeah, it's like a beautiful girl, hot girl. Right, right. It's so different. It's culture difference. Like I can imagine here... Well, no, but that's just flirting. Tell me if I'm being wrong or off here. Same situation. Obviously, you don't get pulled over by cops here in China, but let's say that situation happened. Would it be weird or out of...
The ordinary, if a girl, a male cop, if they're straight, right? A male cop comes over and a girl goes, 警察叔叔,我不知道我卡得那么快哦。 Right? You can imagine that. 这里可以跟警察撒娇吗? 如果这个女生她是这样的,可以。 如果她演出来的就很奇怪。 But what I'm saying is that, you would not think of that in American terms, like an American female doing that to the stereotypical male cop.
Yeah. Right? Like, officer, I didn't know I was speeding. Like, that doesn't seem very normal. But in the difference, the difference is in the West, if a girl was to employ that strategy, she'd try to come off sexy. Yeah, exactly. Or flirtatious. In China, your example in China isn't sexy at all. It's just trying to be very childlike and cute, right? So that would be the difference. Because in the West, there's almost like a sexual...
tint to everything you know so I don't know like Sajiao I think okay the definition because we still haven't found an actual word to mean Sajiao there isn't one but it's just I think the closer one acting flirty and cute to a grown person acting like a child to get what they want
Your definition is so negative. Of course, 撒娇 maybe have the negative part. 但是就是为什么你说大人一定会是演出来的呢? 会是他 acting like a child. He can't be 他自己就是想这样的表达的方式吗? 他也有他中性或者是他觉得 他就是这样子表达,他就舒服的一个方式呢? 而且我觉得撒娇的那个人未必就是
Yeah.
问你要一个什么东西来着。 不一定的, but like, I think there's two parts, right? So one, there is the behavior. 就是有一个行为。 And then, there's a second piece to it, which is the intended behavior.
impact of it so there's there's the behavior and then there's the intention behind it and then in terms of the intention I think then there's different types of intention it could just be like for Sajiao for no reason or it could be for a reason no no but yeah it can be for like like you know we Sajiao all the time just because it's like it's like hugging
It's just like displaying affection 表达我们的 affection Yeah Expressing my closeness to you But Julia seems very passionate about the intentions Which makes me think that she does it a lot Or she's an expert on it Because she's like No 不是只是你想要什么东西 It's like Oh yeah, well tell us Cut to while she's at home 老公
You know, sometimes, so there's another version of this I just thought of. Okay. Which is like, and this taps into some of the male zhenan-ish. So women sometimes, and they've told me this because like, it's like,
you know, maybe there's a certain subject and they'll be like, oh, I don't understand this. Can you, can you explain it to me? And then like, they totally know what it is, but they're just trying to get you to be like power, make you feel like powerful. Like, like, oh, have you heard of this? It's like, oh no, I actually haven't. Right. Like they want you to mansplain them. Yeah. They want you to be like, just fucking with you. Right.
Right? Because they're just like... Do you like this kind of give you this chance to be powerful? To mansplain? Of course. Because if you don't know, then of course. Because this is our straight man part. It's been sent out.
If you know. But if I know, then I would be like, maybe not as, you know, then I would be self-aware and be like, I shouldn't be so mansplaining. Right? So, oh, so 直男 is kind of like the mansplainer a little bit. Yeah, well, that could be like a behavior of a 直男, right? 你知道什么是 mansplainer 吗? So mansplainer 就是说男生就很喜欢自己觉得自己很厉害. It's like, oh, 你懂不懂 AI 啊,Julia? Oh, 那我告诉你,我告诉你,OK? AI 是什么东西啊? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
很直男。 是不是? 是。 但明明那女生都懂的, 但是那个男生就认为他不懂, 那我解释给你。 对,so man can explain, 解释,然后把它压在一起就是 mansplain。 你看刚才一个事情很好玩, 就是 man explain, 女生明明懂,她装不懂, 男生明明不懂,她装懂, 或者她要教这个人, 就很 opposition。 对。
So yeah, I think I do a lot of mansplaining at home. You do a lot of mansplaining on the show? On the show, yeah. I was about to say that too. We're in agreement on that. High five. Eric Hinch, you want mansplained. To other men. To us. He loves mansplaining to everybody. I'll get you out of this topic. I'll get you out of the previous topic. You said you understand, but he actually said he doesn't.
其实你让我们使劲上,我们也能换,对不对? 换一个灯泡嘛,但是我可能会请你帮忙,帮这个换这个灯泡。 就是我以前听过杨岚说过一句话,一个很有名的主持人,一个女主持人,她说,其实女生很多事情是可以自己做,但是有的时候你也是可以请求一些帮忙。
毕竟我们也是需要一些帮忙,我反而觉得我身边很多女生,特别是一些单身的女生,像我们这个年纪单身的女生,她反而就是这种需求太少了,请男生帮忙的需求太少了,特别是在上海,我觉得非常优秀的,独立的。
单身女生,她就是应该需要有一些这样的思想,要不然的话,什么事情都让自己做,我当然可以做,我可以去学,我也可以去请人,我可以去花钱,但是有的时候我觉得,请人帮忙是一个很好的行为,和一个很好的方式,而不是觉得我害羞,我
我是不是这个应该自己做 我反而觉得我会鼓励大家说 有的时候我们是需要人家的 support 有时候 if you try to be too strong or too independent You start closing off to interactions with other people Because you do everything on your own And they just have to do every little thing themselves 他们不放心给别人做 And when you're like that, it's very lonely
我的感受不只是工作上的感受 我觉得我鼓励女孩不要自己做所有事情 就是我们要学会去放手和放开 后卫你能懂我的这种 我觉得你还挺懂我的 就是对 就是有的时候你反而去要适当的放松自己一下 不要什么都懒着自己做 这个我想就是 就是
表现我的不知难的那一面。 Because I actually think I've got some strong skills here. So 我觉得有两方面, I'll use English. I think there's two, I'm going to mansplain, no, I'm kidding. So I think there's two different elements that are potentially at play. So one is gender identity, right? 就是
女生怎麼對自己的一個定義, 是有很多傳統的在文化這個裡面的一些定義, 男生也有他的這種定義, right? So, for instance, like...
there is this narrative that, you know, guys should be a certain way, girls are, but 这些东西都开始被推翻, 因为在过去的一百年, you know, 很多东西, 因为这个 society 其实是非常不公平的, right? It's very patriarchal, we know. It's not, it's, you know, there's so long to go on the gender side, right? And then different people have different opinions, right? And
And so like, then sometimes it's like a cause and effect. So then some women are like, no, I want to, you know, I want to go against this patriarchy because I don't think it's fair, which I, you know, I think it's like, I wouldn't disagree. Right. And then they take it maybe too far. It could be argued. And so then you see the kind of the stereotypical, 就是那个女长人怎么怎么样, 但是哦,然后很多人就批评他, 就说可惜他没有老公的。
Right. Right. And you have that narrative. I don't know how common it is. And so like, sometimes it's like, you know, creating a more balanced society doesn't just mean that you have to act like a man, right? You have to be strong where you are and then still be vulnerable where you need to be, et cetera, et cetera. And the same thing goes with the man, right? The man doesn't always have to act like almighty and powerful. In fact, some of the best leaders are,
that I've seen are ones that are like vulnerable when they need to be. Cause it's like, I don't have all the answers. So there's a lot more thinking, you know, around this area. Right. The other thing that's just this more smaller, like psychological note is like,
When you ask someone to help you with something and assuming that you have some type of relationship and they do something for you, that actually makes the person doing the thing like you more. It's actually like a psychological thing, right? And so if you think about Sajiao and all these things, there's like a biological basis to it. So like if you want to build a relationship with someone, you don't give them something big, but you're
But you're like, hey, Justin, can you help me with this? And when you help me, it actually brings the relationship closer. And it makes sense, like logically, because that's how society kind of gets formed, right? You build trust and relationship. So asking someone to do something small, like you said, it's like you don't have to, like, you know, you don't have to do everything yourself. And even in a relationship, I think it's like a partnership, right? It's like, I don't...
Like Anne definitely doesn't believe in those very traditional gender stereotypes, but I wouldn't say she's like ultra feminist either. So, but we try to like partner on things as well, but yeah, she does most of the cooking.
But then I'll wash the dishes, whatever it is. So I think sometimes it's like 你也要从更客观的角度去想 谁擅长做什么 对 Okay 我很讨厌比如说做这个 那你来做 那你很讨厌做这个 我来做 So I think it does get into a lot of gender identity things. But I love the idea of and I fully believe in the idea that
One of the most effective ways to let people into your life is to show vulnerability.
And that goes with, you know, romantic relationships, of course. But even just like, for example, amongst us three hosts and doing the show, like we've grown closer because we're able to be vulnerable with each other at times. And then that allows people in to your life. And when they get into your life, that creates an emotional bond and intimacy. If you always try to be too strong, right? And, you know,
But do you think that the words they just said, in the traditional Chinese perspective, is a bit...
嗯,不一样。 我倒是没有从中国传统看法,但是他们俩有两个点我觉得还是挺,就是我反而是觉得我们身边的女生太独立了。 就是 Eric 刚刚讲的一个点是说,这个东西你擅长或不擅长,如果你不擅长的你就自己做嘛。 你不擅长的比如说我们当然也可以去研究宜家的东西怎么装,对吧,装一个床或者什么。
但是我确实是不擅长的 我觉得不擅长的时候 我们就需要得到帮助 对 Eric 说的需要让别人进来 因为你不擅长的东西 你 push 自己 你当然能完成 但是你自己也会有压力和不开心 而且 Eric 的点是 不只是男生和女生 是人和人之间 团队和团队之间 我觉得这个点就是让 现在的女生更加的 放下自己的一些要强 So okay hold on Then 你提到这个
like a few times, right? 这个女生的要强 Do you see this in Shanghai? Very often. I think the single girls around me, a lot of that too, 要强 I think I'm not that kind. I can be hardworking or this kind. And you can 撒娇 at home like crazy. No. No.
But when I need help or I don't really want to change the bubbles, I can ask help for some people. 你说你有身边的女生就说, 我就硬是要硬着头皮去做事情吗? 很多呀。 他们是故意这样子的吗? 还是他们个性就是这样子的? 他们也不想给别人带来麻烦。
他们也不想去麻烦别人, 甚至他们觉得能用钱解决就用钱解决, 就不要去给, 比如说他邻居有个男生朋友, 我打个比方, 那其实隔壁的人帮个忙不是更快更直接吗? 那他可能不会选择这样, 他会选择花钱去。 为什么? 他们是不好意思吗? 不好意思,不想打扰别人, 觉得自己可以做就自己做。 我觉得现在女生还蛮独立的。 是不是因为, OK, now this is very random, 有没有跟他们是 single child 有关呢?
我也是 single child,但是我们这一代人 single child 比较多,像我们 80 的这种,基本上很多,比例很大。 Single child 为什么会有关? Because like when you're growing up and you have brothers and sisters, then you know like you're not afraid to ask, right? 但是 if you're single child,很多事情也需要自己处理吗? 或者父母来处理。
Yeah, but then your family conditions, this is also related to family conditions. Yeah, it depends on family case by case, right? I think that depends on family case by case. It's not about only your single child, it's about your family background, how you grew up. But will it... Okay, then are there other factors? Maybe your friends around you are also businesswomen. That is to say, your circle is... Because she is...
怎么说她的事业上面也比较独立, blend into 她的 personal life 呢? 就是职场女性啊, 在上海不就是很多白领女生, 或者是这样的职场女性, 身边当然是这样的圈子, 妈妈圈我也没有混得特别好, 所以就, 但是,
但很多妈妈也是非常独立的, 甚至我觉得妈妈的独立, 有的时候要包揽的事情更多, 我反而是愿意去劝这些女生, 可以多放手一些, 可以多问周边的人, 要一些帮忙, 她可以得到更多的温暖嘛。 Yeah, for sure. Interesting. I just thought of this. A little random, but also I don't want to stay on this whole 撒娇 thing for too long, let's move on. But, I mean this crosses over a little bit into 文化,
一个男生拎着他的女友的包在街上,这个算不算是一种女生在撒娇呢? 还是这个不算撒娇是吗? 不算,只是他帮助她而已吧。 但是这个很流行啦,这个在国内是非常普通的。 I tell my wife to carry my shit.
I know, but this is normal. This is a very common thing. I think it's rare in Shanghai. I think so too. I think it's rare in Shanghai. I see it every day in Shanghai. You go to foreign countries, there are a lot of foreign countries. I think you're still living like in the old clubbing days when you saw this. Because I still have to carry my wife's purse now and I used to be like against that. And I've crumbled. She makes you carry it? What the fuck, dude? Yes.
I've crumbled. I'm a shell myself. 我分享一个故事。 以前 Justin 一直会说, I will never, I will never carry my girl's bag. 我结婚前。 结婚前。 Never. And he was very adamant, very strong about it. And then I remember the first time I caught him. Like,
They weren't married yet, but I saw him holding the bag and I immediately took out my camera and I took a photo. And he noticed it. He's like, what? She's doing something. You know? Like, give me an excuse immediately. And after that, I see it all the time. I think you can ask your question by yourself because...
你已经臣服了,你已经愿意了,因为你爱他,所以你愿意做这个事情吗? 我不愿意,但是我还是做,我是勉强的在做,against my will. Well, what happens if you don't do it?
I mean, sometimes I'll stand my ground and just like reject it. And then she'll just carry her bag. But like most of the time I'll get in. So does she 撒娇? Yes, totally. She's like, 好重啊,好重啊。 我说你好重,你自己的包围, so don't put so many things in there then. 直男,下身。 逻辑。 I know, I know, totally. 但是她的表现就是很撒娇。 好重啊,你帮我提吗? Hold it for me. Like that's like very 撒娇 behavior, right?
但是这个是他,因为他知道我的真实不肯。 但是我的意思就是说, like take me out of it, 就是我觉得在中国的社会, 这个是个很普遍的一个 behavior。 对。 然后所以... Do you do it?
I didn't think about this before, but I think about it. 我觉得我先生会很自然的拿过包。 对对。 因为它里面有电脑,很重,所以他会帮我。 So yeah, so I feel like... 一个是皮包,就是背包,皮包,书包,不同的包啊。
No, but that's my point is...
It's actually not so much from, I could be wrong, but it's not so much from the girl wanting the guy to hold the purse. It's more in this culture, it's more like the guy, I'm the man.
I should hold your purse. I should hold this for you. So it's more 那个男生比较主动的去帮他拿那个包,对吗? 如果那个包是重的,我拿会比较吃力,是的。 但是我小包,我是有点不太能理解。 小包嘛,我自己还是个装饰品的,对吧? 我为什么要给你拿呢? 我自己拿东西还方便呢? But then you get into 很多不同的 dynamic. 也不是说要很 judgmental,就是说
那如果你看到一个 couple, 很小很小, 一米米一个包, 然后那个男生 carry, 对吧? 那个女生还长得一米七十多, 对吧? Then, just I don't know. 这个可能会看得比较少, 小包就会比较少。 But then, what is their relationship dynamic like? 你说见得少, 但是我觉得至少之前啊,
十多年前我觉得是常见的。 你说小包吗? Yeah, 小包都看到了。 I think it's less and less common. 特别是外地, 外地我看了比较多。 就是 small purse 那么大。 是不是小女生也喜欢用这种方式去拉近关系? 可能到了我们这种比较成熟一点, 然后就可能不太用这种方式去表达关系。 I don't know, 不知道。 反正我记得我以前聊过这个话题, 然后朋友, 这边的朋友说, 可能就是,
比如说在上海或者一线城市会比较少见,但是你去二三线城市会比较多见。 因为比如说,Justin 刚才说的,男生想表达这种爱,对吗? I will help you, no problem, this is my responsibility. 但是在大城市,大家比较独立,思想还是有点不一样,会比较少见。
而且又是性格角色, 因為以前的我, 我剛到中國的時候, 我們在街上看到男生 背那個女生的包的話, 我們都會笑, 但是現在呢,
I've become that. Localized. Yeah, yeah. After 15 years. But I also noticed that before, it was always the younger guys, like the younger couples, not older couples. It was younger couples, like early 20s, teens, whatever, that would do that. But the older couples, I don't see that as much. Yeah, that's what I feel. You see that guy, you become the guy. Just as the opposite. Well, because I feel like in older couples, once you get married,
Some of that romance and flirting and all that stuff, that kind of fades a little bit. You don't hone as much anymore, right? Especially versus when you're first dating or when a relationship is young. It's more romantic. There's more gestures. But once you get married, everyone's like, I've been with this person for so long. That kind of dies down a little bit.
That's what I'm thinking that marriage need to be management 就是我觉得婚姻是要经营的 要不然的话就会可能像说越来越淡 或者越像老夫老妻 所以这又是一个另外一个很大的话题 我们四个人都是 married 对 就是还是需要去花心思去经营 男生女生都需要 那你有什么建议怎么去经营呢
我觉得你们会有很多丰富的活动啊 比如说你们最近有什么活动吗 应该有 就是我觉得要一起去做一些事情 然后有两人相处的时间 甚至就是小朋友 即使有小朋友以后 我觉得小朋友特别小的时候是比较辛苦的 对 我的家庭已经我们躺平了
但是当你熬过这个,小朋友会走了,会说话了,会进幼儿园了,你就熬过了这个时间。 对对对。 其实一岁以后就好很多。 你就有时间去经营你们俩了。 一岁的时候真是没有。 对,要熬过去,快了快了。 I hope so. 真的是躺平了。 因为他有双胞胎嘛。 对,两个太辛苦。 但你一次性嘛,一次性搞定嘛。 主要是我一直要安抚我的老婆,因为她最辛苦的嘛。
你要去一直哄他们还是安抚? 安抚跟哄是两回事是吗? 差不多 差不多嘛 对 我可能哄的也不够好 我也要哄的更好一点 但是的确是很难嘛 这个时候大家都很累啊 爸爸妈妈都很累啊 就爸爸妈妈 这个时候哪有空去经营两个人呢? 其实对 你说的对
你要想每个人都有自己的责任 对吗 因为你有不同的责任 你会有不同的困难 你有不同的烦恼 所以不是说 他的烦恼比我的多 或者我的烦恼比他的多 只是不一样而已 不一样 对 Yeah yeah And you can't be so like You can't judge your like Like be so self-critical Because like you've got to do a lot of stuff too And you're totally down for it It's not like
Like that traditional toxic male husband or whatever, right? I don't see that in you at all. You're doing as much as you possibly can on top of work and doing a lot of other things in your career, right? So I think it has to be a partnership. 其实这个也是要互相理解。 It's almost like you have to remind each other.
Yeah, you're helping each other, you go through with each other. 当然也是熬,但是其实你回头想这个时间, 小朋友那个时间很宝贵的,你回不去的。 是很宝贵的。 所以其实是很值得的, 真的就是坚持过来,互相扶持就好了。 其实我有个想法就是, 这是我最近一直在跟自己说, 因为我控制不了他,我控制不了别人, 我只能控制自己的想法。 So 按照这个道理,
我只能告诉自己, like 他很辛苦 对吗 你也很辛苦 我肯定是很辛苦,对吧 因为我之前只是考虑我自己 我那么累,我还要管这个,我还要管那个,对吗 我只是想自己啦 但是我现在是在跟自己说 他也很累,他一直在家 他也很少有机会出去
对吗? 然后我怎么办? 我起码有上班,我起码有来录一个播客,对吗? 虽然我也是宅男,但是起码我有每天有一个机会出去,对吗? 他每天不一定有机会出去,所以我一定要提醒自己,我
我不能让她理解我,但是我能理解我自己,理解她,对吧? 我觉得如果大家可以跟自己说这种话的话, It works. It makes everyone better. Did you find it helpful? It helped me. What about her? Because,因为我刚刚说了嘛, because she's going through a lot of stuff, I think she'll come around. Yeah, you have to just trust. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
In married couples, especially married couples who have kids, the biggest reoccurring problem that I've seen, the biggest stressor of relationships and the biggest problem most relationships face is the idea of who's doing more in a relationship. One person thinks the other person isn't doing enough.
or involved enough or carrying their weight in the relationship or with the kids or whatever the responsibilities are. - It's usually both. It's a perception. - It's a perception. - It's usually both. - So one person thinks the other person is doing enough. The other person thinks the other person isn't doing enough. And that is like that one catalyst that I see time and time again, that relationships just blow up because
Like starting from that one problem. Yeah. That's true. Yeah.
对,冲突就是在我觉得我做得多,你觉得你做得多。 这就是人性吧。 是是是。 对,大家都这么想的。 You can't think that way. You're actually just like one unit. The husband and the wife, that's like the unit. It's like one unit, it's not two, it's one. And both have to have the mindset, because if you go too long with one person has that mindset, the other doesn't.
then there's resentment that happens. So if both feel that way, then it's fucked. Then you're just like divorced directly. And then if one feels that way, one has that, then it's like resentment. So it's like you have to do what you're doing, which is empathize and be compassionate first. And then hopefully it'll work on both sides. Otherwise, long-term, it's gonna be,
But some people don't even give it that chance. They just, in the very beginning, they draw the line. They're like, no, you're not doing enough. Yeah. And then that's like the worst. Or, or the empathize part, only one person exercises that and the other person doesn't. And then it's still fucked. Yeah. So far. Like it's. Yeah.
Takes two to tango. But I think the distinction is that maybe a lot of couples don't go into that part where one of them first practices compassion. It's like immediately, they're like, no, you should do more than once. And then it just breaks down. Yeah, it gets defensive. So you don't even get to the point where you try. But I think probably more often than not, if you actually try, if one side tries, it'll work out. It's like two countries, right? And it's like both sides refuse to, you know? Yeah, I feel like
I mean, this might digress a little bit, but it still has to do with the male and female relationship dynamic. But it's almost like what Eric was saying. I just want to add one term, which is 带路, right? 带路, like, you know, you're the navigator. Lead the path. Lead the way. Yeah. So it's like, 比如说我刚才说我自己在努力改变, 对吗? 尽量, you know, 考虑到他的享受, right? And...
Hopefully, 我可以带路, right? Hopefully, because of my actions, that person can also feel it and then also start thinking that way. Because just like Justin said, it takes two to tango, right? To dance, you know?
So I think that's one thing that's really important because also 带路这个概念 我觉得我是在我来中国之后 我才发觉有一些人会需要带路的 那就是从谈恋爱的角度啊 那比如说有一些人我经验啊
比如说从性方面, 比如说你要稍微带路, you know what I mean? Like, you can't just expect, like in the West, it's sort of like the romance, the, what's the, oh my god, I totally forgot the word now because I'm speaking Chinese, but when you're, when you're, when you're,
setting up the sex before the sex oh foreplay yeah foreplay so it's like because you haven't had sex in that long it's been a long time so like in the west this is the digression right now so like in the west you know it's well known to that both men and women should know foreplay really well and you're kind of complimenting each other and kind of getting into it and then you're supposed to both be a force of nature when it comes to you know the actions right easier said than done right but then I found that here it's like a lot of times it's like
this whole 带路感觉 like a lot of people the male tends to I'm like stumbling over my words I'm trying to be careful like I don't want to be too you know direct but it's almost like raunchy I'm trying to be nice about it but the honest drink after hours but yeah you kind of have to not
into things, right? You kind of have to lead the way a little bit. I don't know if that's something that you want to talk about, but I think it's an interesting topic. Yeah, what's your sexual love life like, Julia? No, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the 概念,这个概念, right? I don't know if this is weird to you or...
你觉得是,对啊,是有这个。 我觉得你作为先去引领这个改变的人是很好的呀。 然后你的家庭会因为你的改变而改变,从你做起的改变。 我相信你太太一定能感觉到,但是一定能感觉到你这样的代入或你的改变给她带来的变化。
But I think this can go back to what we said at the beginning, that is, when you are very tired right now, don't ask yourself too much. At this time, you still need to balance too much. Really just endure it. First of all, I promise it will be better. After this platform is big, you will have more time for yourself. You will have better communication. You will have more space to communicate with each other.
第二就是,我觉得这个阶段就是互相的理解熬过去,然后的话也不用去想那么多,互相的不理解也好,谁做的多谁做的少,it can't be calculated right, you don't know what other people really do, so we just do this together, it's a project, we finish it.
就是大了之后 Save up enough money and send them to boarding school 所以我现在理解为什么就把他 那 boarding school 中文怎么说 寄宿学校 That's why like then the parents are like You will miss them They don't miss you 国内有很多 boarding school 吗 还是有的 特别现在二太多了 如果真的管不过来的时候是会送的 但是我觉得很多人还是会希望孩子在身边 特别是他小的时候 嗯
在我们小时候是不太有这个概念的,还是希望在父母身边。 Yeah, I feel boarding school is more popular like in the West. Here it's more like family, like they want to keep the family together mostly. Yeah, and it's a way to work on the relationship, I suppose, because like if you don't fight about children, then you might find other things to fight about too. Oh, yeah. Well, here's a question to Julia. Do you believe or do you not believe in this line?
Oh, we should have kids to help fix the relationship. It'll bring us closer. I don't have this idea and I don't quite agree. 但是有这个说法。 有有有。 这边很多人会这样说的。 会觉得生了个孩子我们就能修补我们的关系。 对。 But why? 我是个侄女,我可能不懂。 我也想知道啊。
I think people who've had kids will never say that again. I think that's a completely naive thing to think. Because once you have kids, you know that the kid brings in so much additional stress into the relationship. It tests and challenges the relationship. So if you're already like rock, have a rocky relationship, like,
The kid is the last thing that will help it, in my opinion. And yeah, I've heard people say that too. And it's crazy to me that you can think that. Especially after having a kid. One thing that I've noticed after having kids is if your relationship is not strong, okay? What kids bring to the relationship is a challenge to your value system, okay? Yeah.
Both people, the man and the wife, right? Or husband and husband, you know, wife and wife, depending on your sexuality. Um,
It challenges both value systems because you're both deciding on the central idea, which is the kid, right? And that idea is like two paths crashing into one. Now, if those values and those paths are in opposite directions, they'll never cross and meet the kid because they're going to be going in different directions. And that's the issue. And I feel like...
Once the kid comes out, you have to face that. Because without the kid, you can talk about, oh, our values are a little bit different, but, you know, it's okay. We can work things out. But the minute you're putting another life on the line, right? You're raising another life. These values need to be aligned. Yeah.
你觉得呢? I think even the relationship is very rough, as you said 就算非常坚固 Like I feel that 就是我跟我先生 我们是大学同学 我们认识好多年 我觉得我们是属于无话不说 在生孩子之前 可是那一年还是很辛苦的呀 因为你有很多的事情要做 而且他不是你和你先生 他还是一个家庭 你可能还有爸爸妈妈 还有 grandparents
还有阿姨还有什么之类的,他不是你们俩的关系,也不只是你们跟孩子。 所以第一年他的难是在于孩子不能独立,你有很多事情需要你 involve,所以你会辛苦。 可是当他能走,能说,能表达的时候,你这一部分的辛苦会少很多,但是你会有其他的辛苦。 你刚刚说的路会越走越分。
这个其实不能避免,这是你对孩子的教育,你对他的规划,这个是一定会有冲突的,你即使你的价值观结婚之前是一样的,但是男生对女生东方和西方的文化差异,双方家庭的文化差异,它一定是会有的,所以我的孩子现在七岁八岁,那我可能在
为奶方面没有了这个需求, 但是它的教育上我们还是会碰到, 所以 it's a problem you need to face, so it's a continued topic. 你说的对,我完全没有考虑到父母。
长辈。 可是在中国这就是个很 common 的,一定要考虑的因素。 我有个朋友,我不说名字,就是最近也跟我说,就是在聊天,然后他本来是要想准备结婚,就他谈恋爱嘛。 然后后来就是跟我说不谈了。 我说为什么? 他说因为我们双方见面了,父母家庭见面了,然后发觉...
不太匹配 你知道吗 然后就是要考虑到很多 然后他就说 为什么要考虑到我们双方的父母 我们结婚的时候 为什么要考虑到这个
Because, well, and I think one just obvious factor in general is that like the parents' involvement in the children's life is
extends throughout the entire lifetime of the parent and the children. Like, whereas in the US, like 18 years old, you're out the door. And then like on the sad side, it's like when your parents in the US get older, they just go to nursing homes. Like the kids are like, no, I'm not taking that responsibility. And they're very clear about,
in general, very black and white. It's like, nope, you're going there, I have my life, and then the parents are like, okay. But that's not the world we live in, right? Because we grew up with Asian parents. It doesn't matter where we grew up, there's that influence. And we're not already, the three of us are not 100% obviously culturally Chinese, but we still have a lot of those, that mindset. - This particular topic resonates with me personally because it's exactly what I went through.
Like when we talk about cultural differences or cultural contradictions or challenges, you know, we've personally faced living in China. That was one of them. I remember this was when my wife was still pregnant in the first trimester. And I remember one night we were, me and my wife were having a very heart to heart conversation.
Because I had friends that already were married and had kids before me. Some of them got divorced. And so I've seen a lot of different cases, and they've talked to me and shared a lot of different things. So in my mind, I was very aware that this was going to be a challenge, a huge challenge. I was very aware of that. And so I was trying to talk to my wife about that.
And I remember us talking and we were both very naive looking back now about the conversation because we were like, it's going to be me and you and the kid. It's going to be the three of us. And so, you know, we really got to do our part. Let's keep this relationship strong. And so we were really focused on as long as me and you are good, everything is good.
It turns out, really, once that kid is born, the in-laws, you know, you have the families, even the ayi, like you said, like there's so many other people in this culture that you have to really factor in that become really involved. And that in itself adds all kinds of different conflicts, challenges, stresses, things.
My mindset back then was a very Western mindset. Like, oh, it's just about the mother and father or like that nuclear family. And you don't really think about everything else. Everything else is like secondary. Mm-hmm.
in terms of their involvement. But here it's very different. Yeah. As you said, marriage is not only married to two persons, it's a two-family marriage. Of course, in China it is. 结婚很多因为彩礼没谈妥, 或者什么没有谈妥的,非常常见。 结婚不是两个人的事情。 为什么那么多人不想结婚? 也是因为结婚太复杂的一部分是这样的原因。
还有就是 Justin 刚刚说他能够, you can think about it before you have the baby. It's already very good because everybody thinks it's a very naive thing, very simple thing. Like we girls, we also, I think the most difficult part may be our pregnant part. No, when the baby just born, that life just starts. 他在你肚子里实在是太简单了。 我以为...
最难的就是他出生以后的那个日子 你们正好在最难的这个阶段 可是你想一个女生 她本来以为她生完了 她就可以 relax 了 我看了很多书 生的时候的什么什么 我们
嗯 就是
我觉得太太一定会比你们要辛苦很多,如果不是说我要去衡量,但是一定会是,就是你们还能 escape 出来呢,你还能来做节目,他们呢有可能还要在家里继续目入洋,因为喝的需要他们提供对不对,那你们还能有这么多的时间去,我觉得男生很有一个行为就是你们可以逃。
但是女生没得可逃。 是的。 像小的时候,比如说妈妈或者是婆婆或外婆奶奶去管, 这两个人必须留一个人在身边的, 要不然这个小孩子会一直哭一直哭, 那这两个人是一直没法逃的。 爸爸很多是不需要,你们出来他们不会哭的, 不会一直哭的。 对。 对,所以其实你们已经 already very lucky。
但是我刚刚也你刚刚提到一个问题 我在回想啊 因为我换了很多阿姨 她们都知道她们都笑 然后我一直会听到一句话 就是有新的阿姨过来 然后看到我怎么互动跟孩子 她们都会就是好奇怪 就是很好奇看我 就觉得为什么这个爸爸
然后就看手机,然后就管他自己了嘛。
然后说真的有这样子的吗? 他说每个都是这样子,没有一个是没有这样子的。 我不知道他是这样跟我说是想...
怎么说呢, like be nice to me, you know? But, or is that like a normal thing? Is that like... Many dads like that, but not every dad like that. Like you, you are not. 对吗? 但是你有没有发现就是像我接触到的很多欧洲的爸爸, 确实孩子都是他们顾,有可能妈妈更忙, 妈妈要上班,爸爸跟阿姨顾,很正常啊。 这在上海应该也蛮正常。
其实这个是我也想问你的一个话题,因为在你工作中,你会,你会牵涉到很多那个外国人吗? 然后这个对比在这个三年四年 COVID 有多少的变化? It's a good question because it's really changed. 就是我 15 年前,like 15 years when I just entered this industry, like my clients all from the big
big companies, they relocation all the expats to Shanghai. So all the clients, maybe 95%, they are foreigners. 什么时候开始有变化? 我觉得最近六七年, COVID 也会有一个促进, 但并不只是从 COVID 这个时候开始的。 因为很多工作都已经 localized, local hire 了。 有些职位可能不是请,
外国人来做 那你现在的客户的比例是什么 我不能给一个特别明确的 但是 half half 或者说 我觉得也在变 但是确实大家都会感觉到身边的 外国朋友有在离开 可能进来的比例相对少 我觉得最近五年是这样的 因为
中国人回来的也很多,留学的,工作的,工作过几年的,也愿意回来这边也有很多的机会。 我也觉得比如说从香港回来的也有很多,中国人,外国人,都有,都有。
所以确实是有这样一个变化。 所以我觉得上海的市场是在变的。 So 你的,那我好奇就是有这样子这么多的变化, 你肯定要很灵活,对吧? 你去 build relationship 啊什么的。 Like 所以你在这个十几年的时间里面呢, 你有什么样子的一些 learning? 就是比如说从客户的角度, 你是比如说用一套的方法去面对所有的客户, 还是说你还是会有不同的,
对待不同的客人,我们肯定还是有不同的。 因为就像刚刚聊,可能每个国家的文化差异不一样。 法国人,美国人,韩国人,中国人和 Asia。 就是我觉得每个地方的人会有一些他的特别的地方。 法国的对 style,他们的 taste 很好。 他们对他们的 style 的一些要求。 还有他说一些不同的点,可能我们中国人会特别...
注重好的小区,我们会觉得要 good management,可能法国人不是很介意它的入口是什么样,他可能希望这个房子它是 charm-ing 的,它可能有一些 style,对,可能就像你们的 studio 一样,非常高的层高,然后光线很好。
它可能不在乎它要看上去很体面的一个小区或什么。 外面无所谓,只要是入家就好看。 对,在他们的风格上,审美要在他们的点,大窗户,法式窗,因为很多老房子其实也是他们在很多年前他们的人建的,对吧? 所以……
聊到我的专业了。 还有什么呢? 我们讲德国人, 德国人的话就是, 你刚刚问德国人, 德国人就是很注重 quality, You are Germany again. 就是他们会去看, 特别是他们会去看这个 window, 他是不是 double glass? Exactly you, right? 对,他们就看这个品质, 然后他有没有很好的。 所以他们 care 的点都不要。 对对对。 It's so interesting. It's so interesting? 那 Eric 作为你的客户应该太累了吧? 不会啊。
它是每一个。 它非常 organized 的。 Every nationality, 它都有这些要求。 Yeah, quite Germany and this style is about you make Excel and you have many points. I always saw that in the engineer like Dutch or Germany, this kind, they give the points about this, which...
需求是这个 ABCDE 有分数的哦 它可以加起来 所以你就知道最后的结果是什么 Can you imagine?
就是他们都是理工科的 But you know the funny thing is like 我开始的时候会用这个 然后我会很认真的 我还跟你解释 And then after a while I just throw it out Because I don't like It's like I forget about it And then it's just to help me get started about the process Right, then it just becomes your intuition It's just a filter Back up one second 你说有分数 比如说它是不是层高够不够高 或者是它的 quality 好不好 那会给一个 rating 吗
Rating 可以 算 出来 加 给 Average 哦 Just 一个 Total Score 这是 一个 思维 问题 他们 可能 是 工程师 Eric did you do Total Score 他也有哦 Oh my god there it is Eric 也有哦 There it is Eric Of course Oh my god 但是 我后来 就没有 打分 就是 Like now I'm just like I don't need it 那个时候我还挺认真 就说我一定要这样子做 It
It was really just to help me clarify my own thinking. And then now I know what's really important. And then, you know, of course, having Anne see the same places. So it's now it's just like an intuitive intuition. Well, yeah, this goes to show like there's like the left brain, right brain people. Some people are just very data-driven, very analytical, like engineers, like you say. Like they tend to be that way. Like me, I'm not at all. I'm the opposite. I'm just completely flat-headed. Completely flat-headed. Yeah. I feel it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can't explain it. I don't know the numbers. I don't care about the numbers. I just like, I need to feel it. Like over time, I've just like developed this where I start with my feeling. Then I quantify the feeling in terms of some kind of thing. The fact that you didn't quantify. 有没有任何的客人让你生气? 或是房东?
我不知道为什么哭 当时我觉得
已经这么好了 你再不坚持 你再不那个可能你就丢掉它了或者怎么样 我记得有伤心的哭过 那时候在我 20 21 21 那个时候还可能比较脆弱 但是我觉得哭并不能解决问题 所以它并不是我以后的方式
但是当下那个点 你可能情绪积累到那里 你会去发泄 因为你很努力可能在找是吧 就也是 对可能我记得当时好多条件要谈吧 十多年了忘记了 但是就是因为人跟人打交道的工作 你一定会碰到这些呀 导演也是对不对 但是我觉得
They cry all the time, by the way. Howie, 天天哭。 哭是一个很好的发泄手段啊, 你会自己轻松,排出足足,不是很好吗? She's like, finds the positive in everything. Yeah, it's like, yeah, 哭 is a good thing. Yeah, shitting your pants, it's a good thing. You buy new underwear. Yeah, because you get it and let it out. You let it out of your body. Like your playlist, always sunshine, right? No, 还好啦。 都会 sunshine,对对对。 对, 其实,
像次你问我有没有其他词,你觉得英文里没有,后来想了一下,想到一个词,你们帮我翻译一下。 馋。 馋? Like when they're eating, they always want to eat, and like... Bottomless stomach. That's gluttony. No, no, no, no, no. 馋 is like... 就是我馋了。 在大晚上的,我虽然吃饱了,但是我馋了。 那你要解释中文这个意思是什么呢? 具体意思是什么?
中文的意思就是我不饿,但是我想吃某个东西,因为我想到它了。 Bottom of stomach. 或者我就是想吃东西。 Not bottom of stomach. 我想吃夜宵,我们经常用到这个时候。 或者说,你今天中午吃什么? 我馋,我馋,我馋鸭脖了。 我想吃这个。 Crave, crave. No, it's not crave. 对,我在想这个词。 You have a craving.
It sounds like that's what she said. Gluttonous. No, it's not gluttonous. It's not. Okay. Greedy. Let me give you. It's not greedy. It's not greedy. So let me give you. Look, it's like we have to get over the fact that there may not be a word that represents it, right? Like that's the whole point of the conversation. But what's the closest approximation? I think it's first, it's important to just be able to describe what it is and then you can work on that.
Here's one example, because this is definitely a phrase that we're all probably more familiar with, right? Which is that, so you've had dinner, right? Like you've had a decent dinner. Like it's not like you're starving. And then you feel like there's something missing. And you're kind of, it's a little bit of craving. There's the craving element, but that doesn't fully describe it. And then you need something to just like satisfy yourself. So there's a little bit of gluttony because it's like, why isn't it enough?
And then you're kind of like, you'd feel unfulfilled, essentially, right? So the feeling is unfulfilled. And then you want to go do something to fit. And a lot of times it relates to like food and how your stomach feels. So you're not like hungry, hungry, but then you're not like full and it's that middle ground. I can be full. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can be full. Okay, it doesn't happen when you're like,
Totally like... 如果吃炸的你就不会馋了。 那也不一定。 馋是一种想法。 我想要那个东西。 Maybe. 就是你知道我们家是什么时候用的? 是我们狗。 就是基本上每次喂完饭, 很大量饭, 它基本上也吃饱了,也不吃了。 但是一看到我们吃了什么东西, 它就跑过来。 You can say that about people too. 你怎么那么馋啊你啊? I don't think exactly the same. Like...
Like, 餐, at least in the context that I'm thinking, is you've stopped eating, right? So if you keep eating and eating and eating, I don't think you call that 餐, right? It's like you've eaten and you're supposed to be full. And then before you've eaten again, you have that feeling. It's like it's the actual feeling before you reload, right?
Chinese more, 多是一个主动的, 你自己想要的。 我们经常用的就是说, 我主动的想要去 approach 一个什么东西, 吃或什么的。 It could be because of boredom too.
不一定只是你餓,是 boredom,有時候就是,那我就去吃夜宵,right? But it's basically you're missing something, you're not fully fulfilled and satisfied, but if you look at the word 纏,它應該是有個吃東西的那個旁,對吧? 對,所以吃為主,你剛剛說纏,吃為主,但是你也可以纏別的。 Sex, right? Yeah.
你们没有馋的时候吗? 有啊 每天晚上就是 like Then it's like not for sex But like But it's like 那个 Like 比如说最近就是 like Oh man, let's get an apple pie 吃个蛋糕或者怎么样 You know you shouldn't be doing that But usually At least when I've heard it used It's usually a playful negative connotation It's not like
Like, it's playful negative. It's not, you know, it's like usually you call somebody else 殘. I haven't heard somebody say 我自己覺得很殘。 Oh, 這很正常的。 Really? 自己也會殘啊。 我殘我想吃螺絲粉什麼之類的。 Okay, okay. 通常是能量炸彈。 So I think it has something to do with like desire and like a little bit of hedonism in it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like hedonism, not like the sexual hedonism, but the hedonic treadmill. Yeah, it's doing the act of something not to satisfy a need, but more for pleasure. Yeah, yeah. Like purely for pleasure. For pleasure. For the pleasure of it. Rather than like an actual biological need. That's right. Adding some flavor. There's no English word for it. There is? Not okay? I don't think so. I can't think of one.
But I'm sure there's so many Chinese sayings that just don't have an English translation. Yeah, you know what? Maybe we should put it out to the listeners. Yeah, maybe some listeners are like, there is a word, it's this. Throw in some words that you think that there's nothing or there's a bad translation or there is no literal translation to English and let us talk about it. We'll bring it up on the show.
Well, that was fun. It was fun. Yeah. This Chinese-English thing might work out after all. What do you think, listeners? Did you enjoy this one? Let us know. But Julia...
Thank you for coming. This was a pleasure. Thank you for having me. Oh, one last thing. Julia, if people want to get in touch with you, maybe they're in Shanghai looking for apartments or whatever, what's the best way to find you? I have an official WeChat account. 我有个公众号。 Julia Service. Julia 中间一个空格 Service. Julia Service. You can find me there. Okay. Thank you. Alright. Well, that was Julia. I'm Justin. I'm Howie. And I'm not. What? I'm 残 a little bit. I'm
I'm Eric. If all people, you are the most 10. Yeah, I am. Maybe that's just hunger. And 10. And 10. No, no, no. He's 10. And I'm hungry. Because I feel like Eric can always eat. Like, he's just, any time. He just had dinner. We're talking about something, food. He's like, I'll have some. Like, should we get some? Like, you're always like that, right? So, yeah, I feel that you have that. You are 10. Once again, that was Julia. I'm Justin. I'm Howard. I'm Eric. Be good. But be well. Peace. Peace.
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