Presenting: Julia on Podcrushed
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Lemont, my mom named, and super cute dress that I warned the dance with this sillily pullest fabric and really cute ribbon straps. IT was actually pretty fb, and I got to the dance and got demand if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut as IT were, was wearing a dress in the same fabric.

No, yes.

my mother lait isn't that we.

And so.

And I.

Wear .

iti, how was your week? So fee.

my week was great. I was in paris and actually was there the same time was never. And I got a couple messages from pod pressures who were like.

oh my god, are you doing a meeting?

And great, because they could see that both now and I were there and we had just been in new york with you pen. And so I was like a continuation of that time together.

Did you just ironically say, pod rush, I have you have you .

fully .

embraced.

send IT so much? I didn't make .

me think .

we should do some increase sometimes, but I was my parents and David and IT IT was lovely. I was so ready for paris to be for me to feel like I was overrated. But it's not. Turns out it's not.

I was also in paris, and then I went to a few other places in france. The first, we was amazing. The second week was like, this is getting kind of expensive and we're well over each other.

And then I said, like, get annoyed by one another. And then my sister, my dad and I all got sick at the end of the trip. And I was pretty sick when I got back to l my first couple days back.

We're really rough. But I will say I had hired a dog that he had left. My dad was not back IT, so there was like, no one to take care of the dogs with me while I was very like, very nauseous, like having a hard time just standing ing up.

And the dogs were so loving, like my little dogs. And Lewis hells my hand twice, which he's never done. He, like, clash my hand between his pause and all with his PaaS.

He just really holding my hand to come for me. I swear he knew. And then all of her would jump on me and just kiss my face like way more off and unusual. And I felt like the dogs were like, we're with you, we're with you and they weren't needed at all. I was really like, I got crying over like how much I love .

the dogs and how .

I was new year at french .

coffee my week. Actually, I think I was really lovely. You know, he was like, I had like, I had like a halfway vacation because these guys were on vacation. So I was with my kids a lot and all man, by the way, with the playoffs. I'm just really loving Jimmy about there in the heat to .

which now and sophie have a response of .

the so miami is is in the right way .

that I could name and yeah so anyway.

i'm just like, i'm like watching basketball. If you guys really .

know watching basketball, we're watching .

succession yeah yeah way and who has Better taste .

today we have Julia li drive us. And so for a lot of our listeners, that's all I to say, that we got fifteen seconds. For those of you who don't know, I mean, SHE start, but that's often forgotten because SHE played a lane in science field and then he was the vice present in whip.

So I don't know. I mean, he is. She's covered out a singular space in american pop culture and comedie. She's got nine seawards eight and awards two critical or awards a golden globe. And in twenty eighteen, SHE won the very prestidigious mark twin prize for american .

humor penis IT sure you poop your pants doing a tiktok and driver.

I'm just appreciating the way you said popped because he was what adults t say.

Now they .

shit themselves.

Hey, listeners, it's me. Julia were back for season three of wise than me, and we have so much more wisdom to share from the legendary older women who have joined me this season. I can't tell you the number of times when i'm having these conversations.

I find myself scrambling for up like a piece of paper or a apin or whatever I can find in my desk to quickly drop down some nugget that my guest is sharing in our conversation. I mean, you've probably have the same experience, right? Well, guess what? Problems solved, we have created brand knew, why would me no books with fun saying on the cover like get wise or wise up so you can keep all your new found wisdom in one place? We just added these groovy hard cover notebooks to our merch shop to buy yours head over the wider than me shop 点 com today。

IT will start this way.

We'll start now. OK, no.

Hello, yes. Welcome to the show. I have to ask, can you give us a snapshot of middle school, Julia, where you were physically, spiritually, mentally? You know what was gone on?

Well, I am very happy not to be in middle school anymore, and i'm very happy not to be that age. I developed early. Are we talking about that kind .

of thing on the show?

Anything to you? Right way? I developed ly, and.

And I was but on one hand I was happy to, you know, beginning breast and so so for on the other hand, I was very unhappy with my body all the same time. IT was a mash up. I was just not super confident.

I was a god. Yeah I was just miserable. Actually i'm thinking about IT now like I remember I remember once there was this dance um and there is a stance with boys and that's what that's what started to happen.

That's right. They used to have like mixers so you'd have with the boys school. And so they're be a dance.

And the day of the mixer, I got my period. yeah. And I remember being so like not knowing what to do. This is too intimate of a second. And I realized everything i'm about to say, like I gotta out here .

and the there surprisingly .

pen has a .

period story which .

is made on to the shape that .

is surprising. I'm dying to hear about that. Um anyway, I I just remember very friendly coming into the dance.

And I was wearing, I think I was wearing pants, but I was feeling a very uncomfortable in my own skin. And I was wearing a cotex sAnitary napkin. And I remember doing like a thing where I was looking at my girlfriend.

And I was of like, like I was, I tried to make a joke about IT, and I was out of like, walked in, kind of like in the sort of a squad. And I thought I was funny. And then after I did, I thought of that not funny how IT is. And IT was IT actually is funny.

Isn't IT in the telling is .

really funny yeah but I don't think anybody I remember my memory is everybody sort of peel away from at that point but anyway, yeah.

it's not a great time. Julie, did you know how to talk to boys since you read in all girl school like in fact.

when I was really little like when I was in fifth grade, we took. I took a dance class like a italian type c class, you know, and I remember the first time. And but I think, you know, we were so Young with grade, I mean that like they would have a break in the middle of this dance class.

We learn the fox r or, you know, the box, I don't know whatever. And the boys, they would give us cookies and juice, and the boys would like spit ice at the girls. That was, that was the the way they flooded, if you can call IT that. But I do remember the first time I in the class I serve touched a boy, and I put my hand on his shoulder and my other hand in his hand. And I remember thinking, oh, wow, his shoulder feels like a regular shoulder.

Oh, G, H, T. yeah. Like he is, he is a human being. He is another person just like me.

Yeah, exactly. And I remember, I think I was at the same dance class that I was dancing with the boy once. And we were sort of spinning around, doing some sort of whatever the move was around and around.

And of a sudden he leaned in and he just kisses me really quick. And then he, her, pulled back. He goes, who did that?

Was that genuine?

That was not know. I think he just came out of his mouth. I don't know. And I didn't even to the yeah, who did Julia?

You told this story about having this next pad between your legs and doing a bit and I just thought, oh my god, okay, he was obviously already so funny. Because I think about myself at that age, I have never done that. I think I have, like, may be retreated instead.

And so I think it's so interesting that that was your natural instinct. And I wonder what was humour like for you at that time in your life to you are to know you were funny. How are you using IT?

I don't I mean, it's not that I thought I was unfunny, but I was just sort of baked in. I guess it's my side of go to and I think in our family was sort of there's a culture of making jokes and cracking up all very much enjoy laughing uh, in inappropriate moments yeah that's I mean that's that's a piece of an anyway but yeah.

would you seek comedy out specifically or like what .

kind of art we gravitating to any kind of performance did matter what kind? Uh, you know, getting in school place. I mean, I did the Cherry orchard. I was I was a ahead of the fest bian society. I was just like all as many plays and shows as I could possibly get fit into the year.

And I still feel that i'm able to do this for a living because IT was really then an extra curricle activity that you had to still get your homework done. You had to know a city for this exam, but I was like desperate to get to rehearsal or work on the performance as what I was really laser focused on. So the fact that now IT is the focus is A A complete treasure.

Uh, Julia, I listen to a few episodes of your podcast wiser than me, and I was listening to the episode with friend ly botz and SHE said that her mother told her boys don't like funny girls. And you talked about that briefly and you talked about how maybe there is some truth to that because there's there's a lot of power in humor. And I wonder what was your experience being a funny person at that age around boys did you did you notice that?

Yeah I know I certainly grew up with I mean, not all boys feel that way but I certainly knew boys who um might some um not recoil exactly but not like if a girl was being sort of assertively funny I know those kind of boys and they're not boys we want to be with .

why that yeah that I think that .

being funny is a great IT can be a great sort of superpower in certain situations yeah okay I I I know i've .

asked a lot of questions in a robe. I will ask this one and then I will I was like IT.

but why? Why isn't what .

was supposed to be doing .

to prefer coming .

from my cohoes? So if you could just sip IT up after this. So can .

I wine? No, I have to tell you, Julia, that I am obsessed with the fact that you talk to your mom at the end of your podcast episodes when people ask me my career goals and like, it's to start a podcast with my mom, that's my ultimate that is my ultimate plan. And I just want .

to be ultimate. Just do IT I know she's on .

this one right now. to.

So.

妈， i just love that you call your mom at the end of the episode. And I wonder about your relationship with your mom has always been close. What was IT like in middle school? How has IT evolved over the years? I also know also heard an episode of your podcast that you entered into therapy with her at the eight early around sixty, which I think is incredible and probably was such a rich experience. So yeah, anything you can tell us about your .

relationship with your mom and how that's evolved my mom and dad d divorce when I was a baby and right around the time that they divorce her father um actually died by suicide so IT was just her and me um for you know almost four years we were kind of this doo and and I think that being new mom SHE was you know Young he was a twenty seven when I was born and being a new mom uh under these circumstances that were chAllenging to say the least uh the the mothering part was I think kind of a savior for her um in terms of keeping her sanity and then SHE a married my wonderful stepfather and um my dad married my wonderful step mother and so I was a member of two families and so um I would say that we have A A very strong connection just based on even just what I just told you you know um my mother she's writer and uh he is polite and SHE at the age i'm gonna say if I believe seventy five maybe eighty SHE publish her first book poetry and so yeah he is somebody who is intellect curious which is why thought I would be fun to fold her into these conversations and wiser than me because she's she's an intellect and he does things like SHE goes on.

She's eighty nine SHE goes on theater trips he goes to lectures SHE takes classes this this woman's a dynamo. So she's very much my a role model. Certainly when IT comes to aging and how to embrace life fully, actually that spirit .

of your past, I have to say I really loved IT, but I didn't even realize why until I was kind of deep in IT and the way that you're speaking about maturity and I mean that literally like getting older with hope, we means and a lot of getting wiser and the fact that, I mean, we all know this.

But like you just don't hear women in high profile public places, at least speaking about agent this way you're doing IT so directly, so naturally, without hesitation, without any like, I didn't even think about IT you know I O this is like, this is interesting. It's compelling. All of this makes sense.

You're having incredible people reflect on their lives and what we've learned, which is like, yeah why wouldn't we want that and yet you realize there's this crazy barrier, I think, for all people, but of course, a unique one for women. There's a unique barrier like that's not spoken about in this way. And you actually, I feel like in your first episode, jane, and or maybe you even think in the insure you're talking about how like half of the world's population, we're not getting their wisdom. Yeah you know and it's like.

look what we're .

missing out yeah it's unbelievable.

Yeah we could benefit from this. No, we're sit not a gold mine. We're sit not a .

gold mine here. And .

kitchen coach kitting, that's what yeah, I started for the money.

You do you just look around the topic, what's been the most surprising part of the podcast? Like anything that sort of come up again and again? Like what are you learning from IT that maybe you .

didn't expect to well, I mean, you know, there are certain things that people have said, of course, that I take to heart. I think both ruth, Rachel and emitting both said, talked about doing things that frighten you and how important that is. But I think, you know, generally speaking, it's made me happy doing this podcast.

I just i've really, truly enjoyed conversations. You know, I I am authentically curious to hear from these people. And actually, in fact, when I was speaking to isabel na SHE, I I made a joke.

I said, my god, SHE was describing her life and how good she's feeling right now. I, I, I can't remember how old he is. I think she's eighty two, eighty three. And as he was sort of characterizing where she's at, I, I have this feeling like, god, I can't wait to be in my eighties very real I mean, I was like, there's a lot of stuff that you can let go of yeah I think it's .

hard to be Young yeah and that's ginning of all of that's the beginning .

that's right. Yeah, exactly. You're at the beginning. I'm doing the end. H but but I mean, IT is hard to be Young and there's an an enormous amount to look forward to as you age. And the more experience you get, it's just you can, I think, maybe relax into your into yourself hopefully so much.

I mean, even like thirty six and I know that sounds very Young, but like it's not no and and I feel Better than ever. Like the pressure from like about fourteen to twenty four was just immense.

I think being in your twenty sucks actually. I think he could be really difficult, you know. And I was, by the way, I was working and stuff in my twins, but I didn't.

There were so much, what's the word? So discomfort. Yeah, yeah. So I I like I personally, it's made me feel even happier about getting older.

Are you doing IT? Thanks, Julia.

We have a couple more questions about adolescence and we will talk about your amazing alex ya's career. But we have a question we ask everyone, which is to share about their first eleven heart break.

Well, I mean, I yeah I had a boyfriend in high school um who I was really I really like them a lot and then I found out that he was cheating on me with his girlfriend that he had before. I'm trying yeah OK. I'm not saying anybody have to .

be very well .

so I had, I told him, I gave him an ultimatum, and I said, it's got, it's either me or her. And of course, he chose her. So that was a real butter.

And then again, back to another fucking and dance. There is a dance, and there was this. And my mom made me address, and this was, this is the seventies.

Now there was A. Dress label and they had fabrics too, was called lily pullets zr. I don't know if it's around and I probably very y okay, very preppy sort of bright colors. And my mom named a super cute dress um that I warded the dance with this slowly pulled her fabric and really cute ribbon straps. It's actually pretty fat and um I got to the dance and got demand if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut as IT were, was wearing .

a dress in the same fabric.

No, I like, isn't that weird?

But .

yeah.

she's spied on your mom.

Not cool, not cool.

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I wanted ask about your new movie, sure, which is called you hurt my feelings. And in the movie, which we had an opportunity to screen, IT looks like one of essential themes is sort of how family members heard each other feelings the most when they're actually trying to encourage each other. And I was wondering if that like resonates with you.

And I don't wanna give anything away. But there is amazing scene where you find out your husband feels a different way than you thought. And you're trying to say that you don't care, but you obviously are like emotionally like really, really caring now learning how that is for you.

And bread has ever been a project that he wasn't that enthusiastic about. Are you able to talk about that? Candidly.

the movie centers around this couple who are um have had a long and happy marriage um she's a novell st and her husband is a therapist and she's just written her sec book and um SHE asn't her from her agent about IT actor and her husband keeps his been read multiple draft he keeps telling her him much he loves and he thinks it's fantastic. It's a wonderful book you know feel good about IT exec.

Vera only then does SHE overhear him uh saying uh to her brother in law how much he uh hates the book uh and her world is rocked to the core so the movie is about obviously truthfulness and honesty in relationships and also um IT also examines I think uh like who are you your work? Who are you separate from your work? What is your worth separate from your work? And um so with my husson I do very much rely on his input for projects that I do you know if be at a school, be IT and edit.

I'm always going to him for um I I I need his thoughts, I need his brain. In fact i'll say, can you put your brain on this? And um so I do rely on that and I also rely on him to tell me the truth.

So if something is not working, he'll tell me and he's and he's you know he's kind about IT if if it's a if it's A A proper criticism, he can find a way to be kind about IT. And sometimes we might argue, but IT is an advice, first of, by the way. So but I rely on that as I create a person, I really rely on his on on his brain. I find .

that to be so related. My husband, David, is produce around the show, but he is an artist. And i'm also in artist and a visual artist, mostly in his a musician.

And I really rely on his brain. He does not realized so much on my brain for his work, but I rely on his brain. And we've had like time and time again when I like show him a project, something i'm working on.

It's time from to give feedback because he will be honest with me and thoughtful, but we've had to really figure out what is the best way. I'm also sensitive. So yeah, yeah, it's just it's very related. I think that's that's a hard thing as an artist to separate yourself from the things that you create totally.

And in our industry, I feel like in particular, it's subsumes people and their and their families. You know I don't necessary a negative way, but it's just like your the hours alone are all consuming.

They can be, they can be and .

then and then just yeah just like the the impact of like a successful artistic .

person and .

a family I think can be can be just huge.

No, totally.

You've been a part of of of a handful of really iconic things. Something that we think a lot about here is the theme of rejection. And there is something that you spoken a lot about in terms of like when you first got an essay out, you're with Larry David.

You speak about like just feeling kind of at least he was feeling quite shaft that on the show and right yeah for sure. So you're having this like what surely felt like you in a way you've gotten to the summer already. Oh yeah. And then you were feeling immediately rejected.

like this isn't at all what I thought I was going to, yeah, yeah. I was hard, was very difficult. I mean, I had no idea how to perform in front of, in front of A, A, A live television audience.

I didn't go there with A A bag of characters, of bag tricks that I could pull out and and do X, Y, R, Z in a sketch. I did not have that. I was just, I thought people would just write for me and I would do funny sketches, you know.

But it's not like that. It's pretty um IT wasn't like that then. I was kind of pretty doggy dog.

And so yeah, I IT was a rough go, but I learned a lot. I was like going to graduate school. I was there for three years.

I learned a lot. I grew up a lot. You know, I didn't come out of that show a star by any means.

In fact, hardly nothing. But I came out with experience. I had a lot of experience after that. And I think that helped me figure out my certain kinds of priority that I had from a creative point of view. So that was good.

Julia, sort of learn, Michael famous ly came on cleaned house. You were one of the people who was let go. And i'm started to ask you to revisit a darkey potentially. But I am curious, like, what was the next day like for you?

Do you remember? IT? No, I don't. I just assumed I wasn't. Can I chose me? I was so a low on the totem pole that IT wasn't even a consideration that I would have been kept there.

I mean, and I didn't get a call like you're not coming back. I never heard of anybody. Yeah we'll see.

IT was a different administration at essene. When I was there was a come lord Michael was not there was a guy named tick esol. And so he was there for those three years that I was there.

And then when he left, everybody who is on the shot left though, actually, I think the whole cast take the truth. And and then laun came in and did his thing, which is understandable. So but I know I was not. I was not even motly crushed when that happened. And we're.

you decided then to be in new york and to be like, where you were. You trying to be in theater then?

Or I was trying to be in. I was trying to get jobs. I was auditioning and having no success.

None was science filled the next big project.

No, what happened was I went to L. A. For pilot season. They used to have pilot season member.

pilot season .

too OK really right. So but I don't .

think these pilots, I I think it's like they're .

still a time. There's a period of time in which it's all moshi. Yeah anyway, and I went there and I did get a pilot and IT was a spin off of family ties and I didn't get picked up, but I did get me noticed by a more people at N, B, C.

And and then I got another series that was short lived. IT was two years. I I called day by day and I was the snarky neighbor next door to, eh Price.

And yeah, so that's know things started to happen. You know, I wasn't like, you know, huge famous person at all, but I was getting work. And that was meaningful.

That you were like the development others before you did you. So you definitely were.

Well, if that after I did day by day, then Warner brothers wanted to make a development deal with me. We made a deal. I had a creative out based on the material that was being developed.

And IT turned out I I didn't work out this material. And so I did I did bow out. And maybe two days later, I got these, uh, sign field scripts, sign field chronical scripts sent to me by Larry David.

But what was interesting is that then Warner brothers threatened to sue me because they thought that I had pulled out of the deal, because I had gotten these other scripts when, in fact, that hadn't happened. And I was really scared, uh, because, you know I was water brothers. That's rifer yes, that's rifling. And I was just this girl who wasn't an actress. You know I mean, I wasn't like I didn't have.

I I I felt very small and because I was and um and in fact I had you know representative who were saying to me, you Better just give their money back, giving their money back, you know and and I and I said, but if I give them the development money back, which by the way, want that imply that i've did something dishonest, that I broke the contract, and they're like, just, just do IT just, you know, get rid of this problem. And I called because I didn't sit well with me. And so I called gary gold berg, who was the head of, he's the guy behind family ties.

He was a creator. He's since passed wonderful human being. He did family times. He did spin city. He is a huge force in at abc and in television specifically.

And I called him, and I told him the story, and he said, you know what? I don't respond well to bullying. So just tell him to fuck off and don't give him their money back.

And IT really, really involved me to stand up for myself. And so that's what I did and they just want away. That was the end of amazing ah increase .

yeah .

it's incredible. IT was he that was a seminal moment for me when he said that because IT was bullying, by the way, julio.

and we heard that you might come on the show. I started to read ch. VIP. I watched at the first time obsessed with IT, one of my favorite shows, ever so brilliant in IT.

In the reward I was watching with him, my structure, we were just in france together. We were like crying, laughing at the scenes between you and tony hail. They're just so good. And I I had sort of two related questions.

One is, how did you and tony get through those scenes? And I won't presume that at him, who is the actor that you worked with that, like, makes you break the most sort of two things. I was wondering, as I was watching.

well, I don't know how tony and I got through IT, because we had so much delight making that show and coming up with all of the bits and bobs of physical things that we sort of I discovered in rehearsal and um you know I was like we are doing A A dance, you know and uh so we have he would really break quite a 话， but I would break to because he made me laugh so I was just I don't want to tell you I was just uh, enjoying IT beyond belief and he definitely he's the one who who certainly has made me laugh well, I mean, in recent yeah the most I mean for sure is just IT is his performance is is so sublime and and so authentic and tender and and and that's who he is. He's a very tender, wonderful guy. God.

you I love him. I mean in the.

oh you need to me because this is really this is like his talking about .

middle right you I was thinking about that before we had .

you on now is confirmed yeah I I .

like he's always in your face too like I ve never yes, characters. He's just like always physically heard that was I ever uncomfortable to film?

Like, no, I was every second of IT. I loved every second. No, the are the Better.

But you said it's like a dance. I mean.

not like a dance was .

always just like .

touch you an extra second. So interesting.

Julia. You've been in so many like several iconic community franchise in american culture. And I I have to bring up sign field. I love sign field. I I really.

So he was .

in the country.

and I will never talk about that show.

I love IT so much. I watch IT with my husband. I want to know whether a moment when you realized, like, all this is this is huge, like this is gonna be a cultural phenomenon, or was IT just kind of that just happened .

the first time? I it's sort of truly struck me with what we are doing. The finally, we shot the show at C. B. S. Radford in los Angeles and and we were on stage nine, which you could see this from the gate of the of the studio. You could see the entrance into stage nine.

And so when we were so when we're doing the finally, they had to put up a big barriers by the gate because there were people on the other side with long lenses trying to take pictures of who was gonna in the family. ow. And I remember thinking seriously, I mean, just everybody, I mean, come on, really, do you give that much of a shit? I mean, you know, it's just and then I remember thinking, oh, I guess this is really a big deal.

IT was a big deal to me personally because I was doing the show for nine years. So IT was my my heart and soul, of course. But to see the impact in that moment, that's when I kind of first struck me that, that this was maybe giant normous. And I mean.

so long lasting, there's only a handful of shows that I think have been that long lasting and have picked up new audiences like generation, generation.

It's a funny shower. Funny, funny, funny, funny.

I know it's it's a rather objective fact. Anything else yeah truly .

I was trying to go back to feed I didn't ask you one other question because you're sort of famously political and activist. I was looking at your instagram and it's like, so you give so much real state to promoting social causes ah in your character. The administration that she's part of is abhorrent, might say but at the time that you are playing the character, there was one administration in place and then the political situation in the u started to change and things that felt like SAT higher and your show started to feel like this is what happens in real life. Or I was wondering how, if you're feelings about the character change, and did you ever start to feel nervous sort of as the political landscape change while you .

were doing that show? I'm not sure I felt nervous but I did start to question how we really could pull off the satire because you know the trump administration was was doing really a Better version of our show except IT was tragic and not funny at all so that yes you know um the sativa showed the tenor of IT kind of changed him and IT was like we needed to I would do them IT was more of a chAllenge and and sort of one of the reasons we kind of stop doing the show, not the only reason.

Ent, but one of them yeah but sure was fun. I'll tell you, me and I just love me that fuck and show so much. I really did. I did. I mean, yeah, this was great.

So IT is belt more feel kind of like a home .

away from home now? Yeah, the first four years were involved and then we moved IT to last and and uh which was nice because the the bulk of all of our um actors and writers at that point actually we're in ca, california. So IT was everybody could be with their family yeah so IT was hard to be away.

The romance of being on vacation wears off, I mean, on location wears off pretty quick. The the one thing that was great as that, we really bonded as if a cast and and with the writers as well, we were sort of we all kind of clang to one another and and I think that showed up on screen. Actually, there was A A familiarity that we had with one another. That was something we could really tap into, which was nice.

And we'll .

be right back.

Julie, I heard you sharing another interview, sort of a comparison between um how you approached your breast cancer diagnosis and a time when you had to make a recovery in the ocean and I wonder if you can sort of tell that story and tell us what the metaphor was.

I was in the ocean um uh and I was swiming around. I was far from the boat um and we were actually my house. This was many years ago.

I mean I think was like um really I mean like in my twice anyway, whatever. And so we were um doing this. IT was a science boat action. None of these details matter what I OK so anyone in us.

yeah, what month do you think IT work?

Now i'm trying to remember what bathing sui had exactly and I had one of those narcos that goes, anyway, so tuttle around in the water. And my husband comes to about the boat. He goes, jewels.

I don't want you to panic, but you need to come back to the boat. Now there's a shark in the water, right? Doesn't that just make you .

do what dropped? Yeah.

dropped god. And so I thought, okay, there is a letter and I was far OK. I'm tell you, I was far away from the boat there.

Okay, there is a letter. I see IT. I'm just gonna keep my eyes focus on the letter. Actually, as I say this, I can feel .

my heart time.

And so how .

can I do this is just do to know.

how were you swiming was IT like I was.

I was trying to actually swim calmly, and I was doing, which is freestyle. freestyle. I was sowing freestyle because that I can get unfair.

The crawl is not going to take me. There are quick enough. yeah. And so, or the butterfly .

can you imagine? And you can do IT.

I don't know that a lot.

You're making a emotion noise in that water. So I do you see the shark? Do you see the ark? Or you just like, okay.

I need to swim. No, my husband saw that. I did not see.

And my plan was not to look at the shark. Yeah, my plan was to look at the latter. And so that's what I did.

I just kept my eyes focused on the latter. And I was just thinking about the latter literally. IT was like, you know, probably without even realizing that I was just meditating on latter. And so then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was like having a shark in the water, I just focus on the latter, which was just getting through this in uh, increments and onto the latter and onto the boat, not considering the danger, not focusing on the danger, but focusing on the the way out of the danger. And that's what I did with that's the mindset that I had when I was going through my cancer ramp .

as IT cancer ramp. Yes, one a turn IT is I hope he doesn't .

take .

up is a vial moment that we will explain your insensitivity.

I love to do that yeah to i'm playing the .

cancer card internet Julia.

I think that such helpful obviously the patterns of thought that we have like influence illness I think good like healing is is also take up and like the mind and our will. So I think that's really a helpful mindset, like to focus on healing instead of illness somehow like that helps the healing .

process yeah and also I think um you know a little steps focusing on the little steps uh, to get you there manageable parts. As my son's a teacher used to say, when a project would feel too overwhelming, let's just break IT down into manageable parts. Um and and and that really applies god desave applies.

That applies to so many things in life. And it's so useful. It's so useful from the mundane e to the most critical aspects of life. I think we .

all confront death in ways big and small all the time, and eventually we all do IT what's what's what's been your your views on mortality and and spirituality over time and and where do you learn .

now my father passed away. Um what you're are we in twenty twenty three, so he passed away in about seven years ago now and and I was with him when he passed and that was in extraordinary and and I spent a lot of time with him during his sort of the last couple months of his life leading up to his death. And ah I found IT to be a remarkable experience to have been able to be with him during that time.

And um. This gona sound odd. I actually is about ending. I sort of spoke about this on the podcast, being with him, it's and waiting. For him to pass what felt very much like waiting for somebody to give birth if there was a similar.

I am not suggesting IT was a joyful thing but there was a similar feeling of all and mystery about IT and now as I said, I started cry but I really IT um the parallels are there for certain yeah and so I am a believer in those mysteries. You know i'm not A A religious person in the standard sense of the word, but I I certainly I mean, something's going on. We don't know, right that's what I would say something for sure and i'm interested in that and I have enormous respect for IT. Yeah.

i'm at a high and there's a prayer in the high writings. There's a lion and that that has like make them or make me a comfort of their mysteries, which I think is so beautiful. Yeah, it's gorgeous.

Yeah.

that's beautiful. Julia, we have a final question that we ask every guest, which is if you could go back to your twelve self, spend a little time with her, what would you say? What would you do?

Um I will tell her it's going be okay. It's going be okay. Yeah, yeah.

Do you think you would listen?

Definitely not. You have to pass through, you've got ta pass through the the difficult stuff to get to the, to get to the common place. I think .

been such a delight and thanks.

Thank you. It's been so nice to talk to you guys. And I yeah, what a nice confrontation. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

You know, australia drives new film. You hurt my feelings and theatres. Now you can listen to her show, whether than me, wherever you get your podcast, or you can follow her on and official J, L, D.

Dave, is gna keep coming in, like there are some things I need to to know.

You got entry. You ve got an intro.

No, you'll kill me if I do that.

Will you kill me if I do IT.

Tty right. This is actual metal school crash, basically.

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