Quinta Brunson Misses Stupid Comedy
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This is What Now with Trevor Noah.

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Happy Quinta Brunson Day, everybody. Happy Quinta Brunson Day. Happy Quinta Brunson Day. You know, I realized there are only two types of people in this world. There are people who love Quinta Brunson and there are people who do not know who Quinta Brunson is, which is a good place to be in life. You don't want to have anyone who's indifferent to you

But everyone who knows her loves her for a different reason. Some people go, oh, I love her from her BuzzFeed videos. Oh, I love her from, you know, like her viral content. I love her from the stuff she used to do online. And then there are some people, obviously most people now love her from Abbott Elementary. One of the most successful sitcoms, everyone said the medium was dead. And then Quinta Brunson came along.

not only sort of revived it, but just has been successful at it in an age when nobody's watching TV. And...

It's a comedy about school, which a lot of teachers like. They say that it makes them feel like they're seen and it shows how terrible students actually are. Yeah. I mean, God bless teachers. We should pay them more. We should pay them as much as we pay footballers. I have an idea, which I know some people may think is ridiculous, but it was inspired by the NFT craze. I was thinking...

Like the one thing I loved about NFTs, if you get away from all the crypto browness, was I love the idea that you could create something that in perpetuity could get you some sort of revenue because you had created it, right? So you could make an artwork, you could sell it off. But then if that person sold it off, you got a portion of that. And if that person sold it, you still got a portion and everyone could earn in a way. And I thought to myself, wouldn't it be great if we did that with teachers?

if we had like a teacher's NFT type fund where teachers are entitled to, and I mean a fraction, I mean like they're entitled to like 0.001 of your like income

For like, let's say 20 years after you leave school. Trevor, that's insane. You are trying to tax kids. No, wait, wait, Christiana. Guys. This is a tax. It's not a tax. It's not a tax, guys. This is an incentive. This is not a tax. I don't think it's that crazy. Trevor, people don't even want to pay that to their parents, let alone to teachers. Yeah, but what have your parents done for you? Huh?

But Trevor, don't you worry that your system will just push every teacher to push every kid to be a surgeon? Like as soon as they're in school, it's like, man, you got some real surgeon energy. I think you could really do it because they're thinking ahead. Man, you know, Josh, you really need to do a 23andMe. I feel like you've got Nigerian blood in you somewhere. Listen, we all want our kids to be doctors. I wonder what it would be like to be a teacher. I often think about this. I think I would enjoy...

Being a teacher, if I only had to interact with children, I think parents are the things that would make me quit being a teacher. Yeah. So I come from a family of educators. My mom was a school principal. My sister is a teacher. No, seriously? Yeah, my mom was a school principal. For a brief period, I actually went to the same school where my mom was teaching at. No ways. People will message me on Instagram and be like, are you Mrs. Mbakwe's daughter? I get that a lot from time to time. But

The thing about watching Abbott and why I think it's such a realistic depiction, it shows like how...

The teachers are always grappling with like, you're trying to raise this child and help this child, but then you're fighting this bigger system. But like most teachers have kind of been beaten down by the system and they just leave the profession. Yeah. It's a, it's a difficult one. I don't know. That's why I'm saying my NFT system may sound like a tax, but allow me to lobby you one more time. People think about how shitty it must be to be a teacher. Like imagine if you were like Warren Buffett's teacher.

And now you're just like living your life, driving like a terrible car and you like, you can't afford to pay for your house. And you're like, I taught Warren Buffett. Now, do you think though, and this is not to undercut your point, this is genuinely because I'm curious, right? Do you get the 0.02 just because you taught them? Well, you said a two, I said one. Oh, 0.01, my bad. Yeah.

I said .0001. There were many zeros. Do you get that if you taught them, period? Because let's say I am a science teacher and I overhear one of my students at the end of class rapping. I'm like, oh, you should do that. Josh, you're such a scamster. You know this? Yeah.

So this is how I would break it down. I would say that what you do is you look at how much time each teacher has spent with each student. And then at the end, they would say to you, oh, Josh, you spent the most time with these teachers. Ergo, this teacher is entitled to this much of that 0.00001%. Got you. And if the kid turns out to be Ted Bundy, do we then take money away from the teachers? So in that situation, who do you think is more to blame? A school?

or the parents slash family? I would consider Ted Bundy an expression of the failure of his family and wider community. Oh, okay. Honestly, because you know what? I'm going to say this as a parent. You look at your kids and you kind of know what they're going to be and what they have in them. The fact is, mom never looked at him and was like, you are a serial killer.

The fact that she just like never looked like, this one is a killer. Maybe it's because like in Nigerian culture, it's just like, yeah, that one's a doctor. That one's the loser. That one, we're going to see how it goes. Like I come from a culture where people are very frank about a child's prospect. Every time you describe Nigerian culture to me, I think to myself, they missed an opportunity in Harry Potter to make the sorting hat Nigerian. Ha ha ha.

Because I feel like that's all Nigerian parents are doing. It would have just been like on Harry's head and be like, ah, look at you. You should be a Slytherin. You are quite tenacious. Oh, oh, oh, the way you are wielding your magic. You should be in Slytherin. You don't want to. Why don't you want to go? Oh, Gryffindor. You can't go there, Harry. You can't go to Gryffindor. I feel like they missed an opportunity. Of course they did.

No, I wanted to say that the thing about schools is that we only tend to think about them when we have children ourselves and we're going to send them there or someone we know is about to send a kid we know to schools. But the thing is like,

If you're child free, when we get old, all these kids in schools, those are going to be the people at the nursing home. Yes. They're going to be the doctors. They're going to be looking after us when we're old. So I think like we actually have an incentive to be like, what's going on at that school? We should make a few ads then and inspire people in that direction.

We should start raising money for schools using the same tactics they use in politics. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? You could be like, Johnson Elementary is home to 600 learners. One of them will be working with you one day. Yeah.

Are you going to help shape the future or are you going to let them shape you? King, king, fund your schools now. King, king. Or Johnson kids are coming after you. This message paid for by the teachers who need more money. You know what I mean? We could do something like that. Yeah. No, that's great. I'm excited to chat to Quinta though. This is going to be great because-

You know, not only is Abbott Elementary a show about teachers and about schools, Quinta's mom was an educator as well. Like, Quinta based this around real experiences in the school. But yeah, this is going to be a fun conversation. I have a question for her, Trevor. Oh, yeah. Go, go, go. If she needs a Nigerian-Dominican almost four-year-old kid to be in an episode, he's not SAG yet, but Obi is available. Yeah.

Oh, wow. I'll ask her and I will try as subtly as possible, Christiana, to get Obi an audition in the next season.

Quinta Brunson. Hi, Trevor. What's going on? How are you? Good. You know, I'm scratching and surviving. How about you? I'm doing well, but I feel like you must be inundated right now. There's a weird thing that happens when you win an award that a lot of people aren't aware of. And that is, it's sort of like having a birthday. You are happy that it is your birthday, but very quickly, you

You get inundated by so many messages and so many well wishes and so many that that becomes like your part time job. Yeah. How far are you along in thanking everybody for congratulating you for winning the Emmy? So the night of my phone got flooded with text messages and I had to just.

be real with myself that I would not be able to get back to each of them. And, you know, I was at work the next day, so I really couldn't get to them. Wait, wait, wait. You were recording an episode of Abbots? Yeah. On set. Wow. The next day. And so...

I kindly posted on social media and said, I want to say thank you to everyone who sent me a message. Allow me to add my congratulations now. Allow me to add my congratulations to you. That was so exciting to see you win that night. I loved that. I loved it. I was not expecting it, but I was expecting your win, funny enough. Opposite. I was not expecting mine, but I expected yours. I was expecting yours, Quinta. You've done something amazing.

that would be impressive at any other time, but I think has become exceptionally impressive because of the time we're in. You are making TV in a time when, quote unquote, nobody is watching TV and everybody is watching the TV that you're making.

I was reading through your life and your history before this interview, and I was trying to think of what it could be. I was like, what is it? Where does it come from? How does it? So maybe starting at the beginning of you creating, the first time most people knew of a Quinta Brunson, you know, like let's say widespread, was when you started going viral. You had that, the video about going on the date, right? Yeah. The girl who's never been on a nice date. Yeah. The girl who's never been on a nice date. This would have been good. Excuse me, waitress.

Where y'all get your water? Oh my God, you got money.

That blew up. Yeah. And very quickly, it seems like you became synonymous with viral content that wasn't just funny, but connected with the experience that a lot of people who were like millennial slash Gen Z was sort of having. Had you always been a creator growing up or was that like your early foray into making comedy on video? Definitely always a creator when I was younger.

It didn't necessarily start with comedy, but more choreography. I was a dancer, and I was always more interested in doing choreography than I was dancing. Wait, what kind of danza? Ballet, tap, jazz, modern, acrobatics, you name it. You did everything, everything dance? Yeah, yeah. Do you still have toes? No.

I do because I didn't go as hard as some other people who danced well into their 20s and stuff. I started when I was like six and then I stopped being a dancer by the time I went to college because you have to make a decision at that point of what you're going to be. But yeah, I was like always interested in creating the piece instead of just being in it. And then as I got older...

it became art. When I went to art school, I loved drawing. I loved painting. I loved making a finished piece of work that I felt showcased my talents, but also part of my soul that connected me to other people. And then when the internet came into play, it kind of started with just like

fucking around on like photo booths. Remember when photo booths had just come out? Yeah, I remember this. And you had those little, you had the effects, right? You had like the silly effects that you could... Yeah. And it was fun to just make fake talk shows with my friends and sketches. And the first thing I really did that felt passionate for me, and I think was my first inkling of like, oh, I want to go into like creating a comedy show was...

On my college campus, I made this show called The Rant, which was on Facebook at the time. Like, Facebook had gotten video. And I would interview different people from around my campus who were interesting to me. They didn't have to be interesting to anyone else, but to me, they were. Like, my friend...

Abdul, who was the on-campus DJ, and my friend Tim Fox, who was the hottest white guy on campus. And it was just like... The hottest white guy on campus. That was his image. I love how every school had that, right? It was the hottest blank...

Exactly. In school. Exactly. You know, we didn't mess around with like, oh, you can't say that or you will. Nope. We're just like, yep. Right. He's the hottest white guy. He's the hottest black guy. He's the hottest black woman. He's the hottest. It was a different time. Were you funny? Were you funny back then as well? Because I can't assume that like funny all of a sudden came out of nowhere. I feel like this was you. No, I think that I was funny back then. But I think I was more alt.

I guess. I wasn't interested in being funny like Kevin Hart, although I respected Kevin Hart and all the other greats. But you didn't want to be mainstream funny. No. And the show was offbeat. But then it grew. It went off of my campus and started going to Columbia, Chicago, because my boyfriend was there at that time. And so I was interviewing people on Columbia's campus. And all of a sudden, it became this thing where people were waiting for the next episode of The Rant. When are we going to get the next episode? And

that stirred within me the want to have a piece of art that people come back to. And to me, that was like, ah, I love TV. I love returning to a show. I love returning to a thing. She was bitten by the bug. I was bitten by the bug. That was her origin story. Definitely. Okay. Okay. I see this.

When I look at comedians or when I look at anybody who's very funny, I often find that their funniness comes from the least funny place. As in like,

They didn't grow up in an environment where comedy was necessarily celebrated, you know? And I relate to a lot of your story because I grew up in a very, very, very religious household. Like my mom became a born again Christian when I was like, I think four or five years old. And she went from listening to Lionel Richie and Dolly Parton to only gospel music, like literally everything.

One minute in my life, everything was the pop charts from back in the day. And then the next thing, it was only songs about Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Wow. And yet, I feel like in that world...

I experienced a lot of comedy that wasn't intentional. Yeah. But it was very, very funny. Like, I think the Bible is one of, has some of the best comedy ever written. And my mom would disagree with me until I explain it to her. Then she does laugh, but then she gets angry that she laughed. And she says, I shouldn't have made her laugh about something in the Bible. Of course. You grew up in a very religious household as well, didn't you? I did. And I had really similar experiences. We're very similar in that my parents were, um,

You know, my parents were out there. You know, they were affiliated with the Black Panther Party. No way. They were earthy. Yeah, and they were part of, you know, the African groups in Philadelphia. You know, at one point they did complete, like, village living with other couples. And it just, like, they were out there and they were always searching and seeking. And what they landed on was being Jehovah's Witnesses, which worked for them, right? Right. But then by the time I came around...

Like you said, you're born in it. But what becomes funny to you is small observations. The first observation for me is,

was about dinosaurs because I really love Jurassic Park because my older brother was obsessed with Jurassic Park. And like a little mini Jerry Seinfeld, I was like, what's the deal with no dinosaurs in the Bible? And my parents were like, that's not, don't ask that. And I'm like, I'm just asking questions. Like I'm just observing that there's no dinosaurs. Seems like a pretty big fucking deal. And yet they're not in the Bible. Yeah.

And they were like, well, the Bible has a part, you know, about monsters. And I was like, but dinosaurs weren't, how can we describe them as monsters if they were ruling the earth at the time and they didn't live at the same time as human beings? I just wanted one more paragraph in Genesis. I love how dinosaurs are the undoing of so many religious households. I remember when I was, the first time I learned about dinosaurs, obviously I was in school and

I don't remember how old I was. I was really young. And they're like, and now we will teach you about dinosaurs and this age and the whatever age and the Jurassic age. And then they said when it was. And confidently, I raised my hand in class and I said, ma'am, I think your timelines are off because the world was made 2000 years ago. Right.

And she was like, I'm sorry, what? And I was like, yeah, you see, your times are off. It was minus 2,000 and then another 2,000 and that's how old the world is. And she was like, no, no, dinosaurs came before that. And I was like, nope, they didn't. And then they showed us like the bones. I'll never forget. That's what threw me off. Yeah, same. They had the bones. And I went home.

And I'll never forget, I went, I went, walked in the house. My mom looked at me, said, what's, what's wrong? And I said, I think we have a problem. She didn't even flinch. She was like, what's the problem? And I said, the dinosaurs. And I explained it to her. And then she was like, oh yeah, that was probably before the Bible.

I was like, what? And she's like, yeah, well, she's like, the Bible is the beginning of our story. It's like in our Bible, it's in the beginning. There was nothing. The earth was void and it was darkness. She's like, yeah, so that's probably after the asteroid hit. And then the Bible story begins with us now. That's a really good answer. I feel like my parents should have whipped that one out. How did your parents respond when this was happening? Were they calm? Were they irritated?

I think they were irritated. It was like, we're going to let her have these questions. It's irritating for sure, yes. But we can't stop her. I mean, I think my mom tried to stop me from finding my own path. But my dad was a little bit more aware of what was going on. He's like, we're not going to be able to bludgeon this curiosity and it's going to turn into something. But, you know, they...

They did their best with making me still have a strong belief in God without making religion the focal point of it. I like that for you. I like that. I think you have to give a lot of credit to a parent who was devout in their religious beliefs.

but was able to raise a child who was allowed to question those beliefs. Absolutely. Because that must be so hard. Yeah. I think it's part of the reason you are who you are today, probably, you know? Absolutely. Being allowed to ask questions still. And I think that's a part of, you know, it's a part of comedy to be able to question our surroundings. Yes. Not to tear them down, but to make them better, to try to make...

a better, sure, a better stand-up set. But ultimately, a lot of us are trying to make like a better world through humor. And I think that was necessary for me to wind up where I am. Did you ever consider stand-up as a career? I did. And I was good at it. They treat being short like there's something wrong with you. You know, like it's some kind of disease or like you're very other. It's what I would imagine racism feels like. I don't know. I don't know.

You know, eventually, especially as I started making Abbott, like a light for stand-up went off for me. I was like, I don't need, this is not my preferred method of storytelling anymore. Oh, interesting. And it's not for me. And I would look around at my peers' stories.

And I didn't have the passion that they had for stand-up. Right. And... It is a different outlet. Yeah, different outlet. And it requires a different grind. I wasn't willing to be out till 12 a.m. anymore. You know, I was just like, this is not for me. And for me, not everybody else, it started to feel a little masturbatory. Like I was like, I feel...

Even when I'm, I've never bombed. That's never happened to me. But even when I'm like on fucking fire, I did not feel good about what I was doing. I was like, I feel, I feel gross. I just, it didn't make me feel good. That's an interesting feeling to have. Huh? Yeah.

You love it. Oh, no, I love it. I love it more than anything. Yeah. So the thing I love about stand-up is I love the immediate connection that I have with an audience. I love the fact that I am crafting and telling a story to a human being and then I'm getting their feedback immediately. Yeah. I love that it is not a nameless, faceless equation. So, you know, when you do something for cameras,

There's always the, well, how will people receive this? Where will they receive this? Who will receive this? I find that so much harder. I have so much respect for people who create and then put it out there for us to critique and enjoy and consume wherever we please. Whereas with stand-up, I have an idea of where we are. We're in the same emotional space. I like that.

I wish I could teleport, but I do like it. That's the only thing. What do you mean? Like, I love sleeping in my own bed more than anything in the world. Yeah. That was the other part I super didn't like. I was like, this tour shit, it's not for you, girl. I cannot. No. I get mad when I have to go anywhere, even for Abbott. Even just the like...

Even to like New York. Like I just, I don't enjoy traveling that much. You have so many of the hallmarks of a great comedian in that like you have the correct measure of curious, funny, but also grumpy. Yeah.

I feel like every funny person I know has just a little bit of like grumpy crustiness in us where we're like, I don't like that. I don't want to do that. That's so funny and so true. I was on the phone with somebody for an hour yesterday. And I mean, you would have thought we were just two old men. Don't press anything. We've got more What Now? after this.

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Visit dot kpmg dot us slash transformation to learn more. But let's talk about Abbott then. Yeah. I'm always intrigued by things that seem obvious in success, but are far from obvious when they're just an idea. Abbott Elementary was not obvious on any level. You know, you have a mockumentary style show when people say, oh, mockumentaries can't be done anymore. You have...

like a broad comedy that's on network television. People say those are dead. And you have a show that is led by a black cast where people are like, yeah, I don't know if that can work anymore on broad television. It has done everything. It's expanded to an audience that goes far beyond any one racial group.

Did you believe that it would do that when you pitched it? What was your initial idea where you thought this could work? Yeah, I believed in it 100%. And everything that seemed to be held against it, like the things you're talking about, predominantly Black cast, on network, television, mockumentary, to me, those were the strengths of it. And Abbott felt very...

spiritual to me and like a no brainer to me when I was developing it. It was an idea way back, way back when that I had to like make a show about that after spending some time with my mom when she was on the verge of retirement. And I was like, this is a show. Cause your mom worked as a teacher, right? Was she a teacher? She was a teacher for 40 years. And I was visiting her one day before she was, she wasn't even thinking about retirement. I wanted her to retire because I felt like

Things were getting too bad. What do you mean by too bad? Just the state of things. She was at school in Philadelphia. And not cute Philadelphia. Hood Philadelphia. And I didn't feel comfortable with her leaving work and it's dark anymore. And I know she had the ability to

handle anything, but I'm like, you shouldn't have to anymore. Like you're at retirement age, retire. Like don't put yourself in harm's way for pride's sake. But for my mom, it wasn't pride. It was, it's that teacher bone. Like, this is what I do. And if I don't do this anymore, what is my purpose here? So we get into it. Cause she's like, well, don't tell me what to do. Like, what are you doing with your life? Cause at that point, like,

I didn't have anything to show for my time in LA, in her opinion. Like I was standing on two feet. I was paying all my bills and everything. But she was just like, why are you there and not here? Because she didn't know what I was doing. And making a show sounds so far fetched to your parents. Your parents are like, you don't make shows. Norman Lear makes shows. Okay. Like, do you know what I mean? That is hilarious. And it's just that simple for them. So then we got into it.

Her principal comes in, who was absolutely ridiculous. Like just a ridiculous woman who tried to pitch me a line dancing show. And I just thought that was really funny. And then the woman my mom shared a classroom ball with,

who the Melissa character is based off of, came in and, you know, they're talking about having to stay late for parent-teacher night. And it was just that moment where I was sitting in a space. I'm like, this is a show. I see the world. I see the characters. I forgot how well I knew the world because I grew up in public schools, not just going to them, but being with my mom before school and after school. So I was like, it almost felt like visiting your childhood home again. Like, shit, I forgot how well I knew the map of this space because I've been

away from it for so long. And to me, when you have, you can write the pitch effortlessly and the characters are flowing out of you and you know the engine of it, you have a good show. I do think you're in trouble a little bit more when you don't quite know the engine, when you can't talk about these characters like they're real people. Oh, that's interesting. So in a way that might be part of the success then of the show, if I hear you correctly, is you're saying

You are almost watching the show before it even is made. You know what the characters are doing. Yeah. You know where they're going. You know how they're going to be. And so you're almost the conduit for the story that you've already seen. Yes. Abbott felt more spiritual than anything I'd ever done. I was like, what you just said, I'm like, I just feel like I'm the person that this has to go through because it's flowing through me.

And I see every episode in my head. And so I have to make this. And I remember before Abbott got picked up, I told my manager, Adam, I was like, if this doesn't get picked up, I might stop doing this because I know that this is the best I can do. Oh, wow. And I meant that in a positive way. Like, yeah, this is a culmination of everything I've learned of all of my skill. It feels great.

spiritual, like this is what I need to give to the world, like artistically. And I'm happy it went. Yeah, no, this was it. What a lot of people love about the show is that

It is funny, but its heart comes in how real the characters are and how they live their lives. You know, you have some characters who some people would consider ignorant, but really it's just they have a different point of view about certain issues. You have other characters who are aloof.

or choose to live their lives in a certain way. You basically have real people is the way I like to think of it. And you have real people who are forced to live in the same environment because of the job that's holding them together. There are moments where they like the job, moments where they hate the job. I've heard from a lot of teachers who've said they love it because

It doesn't deify teachers in a way that often people do. Like people always be like, oh, teachers, oh, the teachers. And they're like, hey, we're human beings. We have terrible days. We have good days. We love what we're doing on most days, but it's hard. But we love that that show allows us to be as rugged and as real as other characters should be. Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. That was also part of the inception of it. You know, the people I know in Philly,

They're not spending their days talking about politics. They have jobs to do. The immediate problems are in that world. The outside stuff, like I know like last year, you know, people, they were banning books and stuff. Every teacher I knew was like,

Man, whatever. These kids won't read those books, and that's the least of my issues. I have a kid that won't stop putting his boogers on the book, and another one that's cussing out this one. I'm trying to get them at reading level. The issues are direct and immediate. Yeah, they're not national. I've often said...

One of my favorite things about traveling and doing stand-up, especially in America, you know, going out of the major cities and performing. Often people ask me that, like, why are you there? Why are you there? It's because very early on in my stand-up career in America, I realized if you stay in only the major cities and in areas where people are doing relatively well...

you will get an unrealistic idea of what people think of and speak about every day. And I found people who are in a well-off position, people who are doing pretty well,

they talk about politics a lot because it's almost like sport for them. Yes. You know? So they go like, did you see what the Democrats did? Did you see what the Republicans... Oh, I can't believe they want to pass this bill in the Senate. But on the ground, on the ground, people are literally going, hey, man, that bridge is about to collapse. And hey, you see that pothole that's in front of the school? Did you hear about Mikey? Mikey's been punching people and nobody's stopping him. It's so much more localized than people think it is. And it forces you to make your...

comedy more human, right? You have to go into a deeper human place. I'm not saying you can't talk about politics, but it has to find some type of common ground with... I never forget, I did stand up in Idaho and that was a moment for me being like, wow, I have nothing in common with the people in Idaho. Oh, interesting. But I have to find common ground because...

We're both, we're human, so we got to have something in common. Is that why Abbott is so personal in its storytelling? And what I mean by this is every character in Abbott Elementary feels like a human being who is making their way through life

and then has to sort of survive everything else that's happening along the way. Like, they don't have the luxury of pausing and pontificating. Exactly. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. These are people who are just going...

I'm a principal. I'm just trying to make sure the school meets its targets and it hits these numbers. And I need to manage these teachers. And then the teachers are like, yeah, I'm a teacher, but I'm also a person. I'm a woman. I'm a man. I need to go on a date. I don't have a partner. These are like things in my life that are throwing me off. Is that why you've chosen to go so small? Yes. And do you think maybe that's why the show has gone so big? I think so. And I think good storytelling...

It's about a small story. I think that Game of Thrones feels big to us, but in essence, that's about two families. They know their characters so well. They know that world so well, but it's actually a pretty small world. It's not dealing with all of the outside world's problems. The fantasy lives right there, similar to Harry Potter.

JK Rowling aside, it was about this little world, this little school. And I think you have to focus on a little world so that you can touch more people. I wonder as well, like, how you've managed to either ignore or subvert some of the pressures that have come with being the creator of Abbott Elementary. Because I could be wrong, but I observed this from afar.

Abbott Elementary launches. At first, people are like, well, I hope this succeeds. Good luck. Then they're like, wow, this is the number one show on TV and this is breaking all records on the network and we've never seen. Wow. And now everyone's on the train and people are loving it. And then very quickly, people are like, Quinta.

Why are you not creating episodes that deal with every single issue that we're dealing with? Like, for instance, I saw there was a moment in time where people were like, Quinta, we would like you to make episodes about mass shootings in schools, please. Please make mass shooting episodes. And it just feels like you've resisted that.

And I would love to know how you've done that and why, because I know you're very intentional about what you create. Yeah. You know, recently I've been watching kids make artwork at our school on our set and watching them make art. And it gave me something to...

To compare how I feel, too, because they'll make art and they'll turn it around and they show you. And you go, oh, that's great. What is that? To me, it looks like a whale jumping over a boat. And they're like, that's not what it is. It's not what it is. It is a dolphin and it's going under the boat. That is my mom and my dad on it.

And I'm like, what's that right there? Is that the sun? No, it's a raging hot ball of fire coming towards it. And it's just like, okay. But something about

them, it doesn't matter what my perception is. I'm older, I'm smarter, I'm an adult. It doesn't matter what I say it looks like to me. They're like, this is my art and this is what it is. Oh, I like that. And what I have chosen to make is what makes it great, not your perception of it. And I think that's how I feel with Avid. I don't think, I have to always go back to

This is the art that I'm making, right? It's what I choose to make. And I look at TV shows as one big long book where there's a beginning, middle and end that the author writes before it even gets to us. And we get to have conversations about it or, you know, to say what it means to us.

And that's great. An author cannot control that once the book is out there. But they wrote that beginning and middle and end based on the story they wanted to tell. And I go back to painters. Painters will be in a studio forever.

Matisse used to paint paintings for two years, and it would mean something to him. It might have just meant he was hungry and he wanted an apple. But when it goes out to a gallery, someone is going to sit there and cry in front of it and say, this makes me think of my mother. And that's beautiful, but that doesn't change the artist's intention. And I keep that in mind with Abbott, because if I don't see it for the show, if it's not

part of the storytelling that I've set out to do, then I love that people are engaging with it, discussing it, but that's, I don't have to change my approach at all. Cause then it's not the thing that you think you like. And yeah,

I want to make sure it continues to be intentional. I think it also speaks to how used people have come to being force-fed a story, a message, or an idea. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. You know, so when I think of some of my favorite shows, I think of how those shows gave me an idea of the world, not by telling me directly about it, but rather helping me to see it and feel it.

Do you know what I mean? Absolutely. So I would understand something like even, let's say like a show like The Office. You'd be like, oh, this is just a show about funniness. It's like a show. But it's like, yeah, but it also gives you like just an insight into like corporate culture and how, you know what I mean? This world is like people have lost touch with who actually works there and doesn't work there. And capitalism as an idea. And if you really, really watch it,

Yeah. If you really sit down and watch it, you can dig into themes that go far beyond just, oh, what is happening with these two characters and are they in love? Right. I think with Abbott...

You pick that up in every moment, you know, whether it's a character's political views personally or somebody's inability to switch up their language because of what's acceptable now versus not now, et cetera. I think it digs into those issues in a more effortless way. It's like, it's a, it's such a deft touch that I, that I really credit the show with. I think we also came to expect that kind of messaging from minorities, you

It was like it became our responsibility. If you are Black or queer or Indigenous or anything else that was a minority, people perceive you to have this responsibility to tell them how to deal with minorities or deal with these issues. Even teachers, I came to realize, I'm like, oh man, this kind of operates as a minority group. People are expecting certain stories to be told about you. But once again, I don't need to tell them, but-

When you're part of a minority group, you're now responsible for that minority group. To me, Abbott is a direct protest of that because I don't think that should be to minorities to have to do. And I think if some people do want to do that and they feel passionate about it, then absolutely. But I don't think it should be our responsibility. And I think...

unbridled storytelling is just as important as storytelling with a direct message. You know what I mean? Right. I think we deserve all different types of storytelling. So that's another reason why I just never want to be too on the nose with Abbott because my responsibility is to make sure that we all get to make whatever we want. Mm-hmm. Like,

I don't want to have to talk... Like, the guys on Always Sunny don't have to talk about certain things. Why? Because they're four white dudes and no one expects them to. But I just want the same expectations for everybody else. Yeah, I've always said one of my favorite quotes is that black joy is in and of itself a radical act. It is. Yeah.

So I think to your point, it's wonderful to have stories that are on the nose and tell you something. But man, it's fun to just have stories as well. Just moments where you go, yeah, this is how we can exist beyond just pain, beyond just suffering, beyond just one expression of ourselves. For me personally,

Martin did as much for me as a show that was like very serious and very instructional, you know? Same. Girlfriends did as much for me as a show that was about like feminism and like... It's like you still...

Because the people are the ones who experience the politics. And oftentimes we think the politics are the only things that matter as opposed to the people. And the thing about a show like Girlfriends or Martin is the politics always exist. Exactly. The reason why Martin's on a local radio show is due in part to being in Detroit and him being a

black man. And even when he gets a TV show word on the street, it's local public access television. And, you know, the kinds of guests he has on the kind of relationship he has with Gina. I remember an episode where he was unemployed and like he could not get on his feet to save his life. And in the politics are there. We are black in America. The politics are always around us. So I just think I want to make sure we protect those spaces for us. We'll be right back after the short break.

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Try Ricola Cherry Drops now. To find out where to buy it near you, visit Ricola.com. You're not just in a position where you're telling the stories. You know, you recently signed a multi-year deal with Warner Brothers and you're going to be developing new stories.

I would love to know, you know, as I ask every single person on the podcast, what now? I know you're still in this chapter, so I'm not rushing you to think beyond it, but because you are now working on broader deals. So I'd love to know like what you would like to play in, what space you would want to be in when developing new stories. I have like two main objectives outside of Abbott. I would love to...

make a YA story, but a lot of YA is wish fulfillment television. And even when it's dark, it's still wish fulfillment television. But, you know, a movie I was obsessed with when I was younger was Crooklyn by Spike Lee. And I still, to this day, haven't, that's like the only movie I've ever seen coming of age for a young black girl that

felt like, you know, when I first saw that, I was like, well, that girl's just like me. But I was in Philly. She was in New York. Her block looks like mine. Her attitude was like mine. And they just nailed it with that character. And so I want to aid in creating something like that. Not a movie, but more along the lines of a show. But I don't...

I don't want to do wish fulfillment television like a lot of the YA stuff now. Not pretty people and glossy backgrounds. The best looking vampires you've ever seen. Exactly. I think that I just saw this post about how girlhood is not afforded to non-white girls. And that resonates with me. Why do I have one example of that?

Of like black girlhood. In my brain, there are more. Yeah, yeah. I know what you mean. I think there needs to, I really want to make something. And I'd like it to involve religion because religion is a part of so many young black girls' lives and it determines. Yeah.

How we grow up, how I turn out, how a lot of us turn out. So it's kind of a piece that would examine religion as a whole, but as it pertains to this young girl who we get to watch grow up and decide whether or not religion is for her. So I'm really excited about doing something like that. And then I really want to make...

A movie that is a stupid comedy. I really want to get in my... Oh, really? Like a rom-com? No, like a stupid... Like it's just a full-on stupid comedy. Stupid. I miss stupid comedies, and I've been missing them for a while. What's your favorite stupid comedy? Favorite stu... That's a big question.

Anchorman. Anchorman. Anchorman. Okay. I mean, that's a good stupid movie. I miss people in fake mustaches and just fun. I think it's like Anchorman, Dodgeball, Talladega Nights. That was an era that I grew up in. I was like 15 when those movies were coming out and they just meant everything to me. And comedies then got more serious and darker. And now I think

We're seeing this small renaissance, like with movies like Bottoms. I'm not sure if you saw that, but I'm like, okay. No, I haven't. We can get silly again. We just all need to lock arms and say, I was in the Weird Al Yankovic movie last year, which was just pure stupid. It really is. It's fun stupid though. Fun stupid. And I want to be part of the stupidity because at this time I want to make sure the stupidity

has diversity in it. Because all those movies I just named were, you know, White Chicks was a good example where I'm like, this is so stupid. And then people will say, well, you can't make anything like White Chicks anymore. Like we live in two, like our world is too PC. That's not true. Yeah, I don't think that that's true. It is time for

people with the sensibilities of the newer generations to get in there and try. And at the very least, like, try to make those movies. So I'm very excited about a movie I'm working on because to me, I'm like, I have the feeling with that movie like I did with Abbott where I'm like, this is spiritual. It's going to be stupid. But yeah.

It's spiritual. You know, I will say this. The best thing about creating something that you love and believe in is that the outcome isn't the most important part of its creation. That becomes a bonus.

But the, you know, the process of making it is actually what brings the most joy. So I think it'll be successful, but I think the success will come in you just making it and having fun and doing it. I agree. I always go back to painters and Matisse is one of my favorite painters. And there was this one excerpt, someone talked to him about his paintings becoming big. And, you know, he's like, I didn't even know. Because, but.

back in the day, they would just paint in their little studio and then somebody would be like, can I buy this? And they'd be like, yeah, sure. And then before they knew it, there was no internet or even, you know, by letter months later, they'd be like, hey, your painting's hanging up in a gallery in France. And they'd be like, oh shit, that's crazy. And it's like, yeah, no, like mad people love it and are looking at it. And it'd be like, damn. But for those painters, it was like, I got the painting done and I was proud of it. And I feel like

that's how we should be creating. We should have something be finished and we're proud of it and everything else is a bonus. Well, it is a bonus. I'm glad that you're proud of it. And I mean, we tell you a thousand times over, we're proud of it. Congratulations. Thank you. I am grateful. Everything you've made over the years has had its own level of success in its world.

but Abbott Elementary has done something on so many different levels that I think for many years to come, it'll be held up as like a hallmark of how to make a great show. Thank you. Can I tell you something on your podcast that you might want to cut out, but it's very important to me? Yes. I saw you at a party and you told me and my husband too at the time that you were like going to stop doing The Daily Show. And I was like,

What? You know, I was like, who gets to make that decision? I was like, everything has your name on it. Like, how can you...

You could do that. And you were like, yeah, I'm making that decision. And you know what? That was agency that I needed to see in action. Oh, wow. Because you don't often see people making that kind of decision at what we perceive to be the top of your game. But it felt like to me, you were following your artistic instincts. And I don't know if...

Mad shit happened behind the scenes. None of that. No, not at all. Funny enough, it's exactly that. It's similar. I remember talking to my therapist about it in relationships. And we were having this conversation about how we need to normalize people ending their relationships in a good place and in a happy place.

But oftentimes what we wait to do in life is we wait for things to become bad. We wait for things to become toxic. We wait for things to become oppressive. And then we leave because then we feel like we have like a reason to leave. But then I'm like, yeah, but then to your point, using the word agency, I go, okay.

If you are always waiting for things to become bad before you make a decision, then you are never making a decision. Exactly. You are just letting life make the decision for you. And then you get to walk away feeling like you made the quote unquote right decision because it got bad. Exactly. But there's so much more, there's so much more fear as well. There's so much more fear, uncertainty, but also I think power in saying, hey, I'm going to make this decision while things are good.

Because I believe it is the right decision to make. And then I'll go from there. No one knows the answer to anything. But yeah, I don't know. I'm not a big fan of life making all of your decisions for you. Absolutely. And I operate that way. But you don't know if you can technically exist that way in this industry. And I remember that night you saying that. I was like, oh my God, you can exist that way.

And it always stuck with me because I just, I don't know, they gave me hope. So I just wanted to tell you that. I'm glad. That means a lot to me. Thank you, Quentin. And thank you. Thank you for literally for everything you do. Oh, thank you. I love seeing creators create.

because it reminds me to keep doing it, you know, just do it, have fun. You know, that's the big lesson I've got from this conversation, which I always remind myself, but it's great to hear from you. Yeah. It's just like, just paint in your studio. Yeah. And then if the letter comes telling you that it's in a gallery, then it's in a gallery. Yeah. But if not, just imagine the letter got lost in the mail and keep painting. And keep painting. Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. Thank you so much, Fran. Thanks for joining me. Thank you. Thanks, Trevor. Thank you.

Music, mixing and mastering by Hannes Braun.

Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?