Mark Cuban [VIDEO]
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Oh! That is another crash by Josh Johnson. This is all this episode is going to be about. I'm very sorry. Will Josh Johnson make it to the end of the episode? The drama in that hotel room. Everyone who's driving right now is like gripping their steering wheel tight. This is What Now? with Trevor Noah. This episode is presented by Lululemon.

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Visit lululemon.com for everything you need to bring it tomorrow. Rest day is the best day. Happy Mark Cuban Day, everybody. Woo! Yeah, Mark Cuban! Yeah, billionaire! Billionaire! Billionaire! Woo! Oh, man. How was your week, Josh? What did you get up to?

I'm doing great, man. I'm off. I'm in, I'm in Montana. I did blacksmithing for the first time yesterday. I'm, I'm a new person. What do you mean you did blacksmithing for the first time? What does that even mean? That's a strange way to say you did somebody's job. And then like, yeah. Yeah.

I did accounting for the first time yesterday and it was a lot of fun. It was really good. Yeah. I think I'm going to be an accountant now. Yes. The way that I mean it is not I did accounting. It's that I counted yesterday.

Yeah. I dipped my toes in. How was it? It was great. It's like it was admittedly very difficult because the muscles that it requires are not ones I've ever worked on. Because you would think if you have biceps and you have good shoulders and everything that you're going to hit the mallet just right and everything's going to flatten out for you. Yeah. But you need like a beard, don't you? You need a beard and you need wrist strength. Yeah, I feel like you...

Wrist strength? What? Yeah, yeah. So there are muscles in the forearm that I've never really, we haven't met. And so then me hitting the mallet and the metal was, it was doing a lot of bouncing back.

Did you make something, by the way? Yes. They just made you hit something like a little child. Which one was it? No, I made something. What did you make? A hook for my backpack to put on the wall. A hook for my backpack to put on the wall? What life are you living?

Well, there was no time for me to make something substantial. So I really had to just learn all the basics. Like I had to learn the curve so that nothing catches on the hook. I had to learn how to flatten out a piece so we can screw it in. And then the functional. Oh, Lord. One second. Sorry. What just happened? What? What? Are you OK? Oh, yes. Yes. His wrist. No, no, no. I'm fine.

His wrist is cramping. What's going on, Josh? My computer was about to die, so I had to grab the charger. Oh, okay. Just ill-prepared, you know. You're just so in the blacksmith mode, you're not even thinking about the technology anymore. No, no. You're just a changed man. Yeah, that was powerful. You had the same reaction that I'm assuming that Boeing pilot had on the flight right now. That's what your face looked like right now.

You were having a calm, easy conversation with us, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, God. Oh, God. Oh, God. Let me see. Okay.

Oh, man. Oh, that plug doesn't work. This is giving like some good drama to the episode. It's like how long do we have Josh for? We don't know. 4% left? We don't know. We don't know. Will he get it? Will he not get it? Did you get it, Josh? Yeah, I got it. Oh, man. That was close. Because it tells you too late. Because they'll tell you that the battery low on the computer and then it'll just say bye. It's an Irish goodbye. That's what it is. Mm-hmm.

It texts you when it's already in the car on the way home. Hey, I had to leave. The battery was low. Thank you so much for having me. I had a great time. Oh, man. Have you been following the story with the Boeing planes, by the way? Yes. Yes. I've been enthralled. I've done jokes about it. What's your favorite joke you've told about it?

We've really been trashing Spirit for a while now. As Spirit, at least get the whole plane there, right? When you pay Spirit, Spirit is then like, okay, we're going to get you and the plane there. And then you are on this Alaska air flight. Pieces of the plane start coming off. And you're like...

Well, I did pay $68. It just is one of those things where I think as Americans, we are too bloodied from our customer service experiences that we don't even think we deserve full plane. That's funny. By the way, I was thinking if I was the passenger sitting next to the passenger that the door opened on, because it was a really beautiful story. I don't know if you saw any of the videos of the passengers. One of them made a video and she was talking about how

She was sitting in the window. Well, it's a window that was a door that then turned into like an exit. And she was sitting there, the thing blew off. And then the passengers around her like held her, like they grabbed her arms and they pulled her inwards. I was like, that is a test. Every time we think that humanity is terrible, we receive information to the contrary. You know, because I won't lie to you. I don't know what I would do in that situation, but what I think I would do

is pull my hands away from the person who is at the window. I do not think I would reach towards them. If a door blows open and there's a stranger next to me reaching towards me, I would be like, no, no, my friend. No, no, no. You're on your own right now. This is your journey.

What you just said reminds me of this meme where someone's drowning and their hand is out looking for help and the person just gives them a high five. It's like, bye. Yeah, yeah. I'm just, I, again, maybe in that scenario, I would be overcome by, I don't know, an instinct greater than myself to save the person, maybe.

But thinking of me right now as Trevor, I think I would recoil. My body would jump away from the person at the window. And then I would, yeah. And then as they reach for me, I would probably like slap their hand away. Like while they're trying. I'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know what's been fascinating to me about this Boeing story is

is how many people don't seem to understand the direct straight line between companies cutting costs at all costs and then consumers being in a position where they're receiving an inferior product. Boeing is just trying to cut costs. It's crazy that they said that door was held by four bolts that weren't screwed in properly.

I'm pretty sure that they've had so many problems with that Boeing that they've now, when they do the in-flight announcement, that first one, they stopped saying what plane it was. Because remember when you would be on Delta and they'd be like, we're so thankful for you to join us on our trip on this Airbus 444. On this Boeing 7, yeah, exactly. They've stopped doing that now. Now they're just like, welcome. Yeah.

Hope you make it. Welcome to your last day on Earth. Yeah. Thank you for joining us on your trip to wherever. But they just I don't think they include that anymore because I stopped hearing it. I think something good did come out of this. Just saying the door, the door came out of this. What was the door? Definitely came out. But there is a big divide in this country. And I feel like it was a win for one side. And that is my people, the ILC people.

who are always being told, "You're an ILC person?"

And now I have an extra reason to be an IOC person. I can get up to the bathroom whenever I want. I have the power to let other people pee or not. And now I'm not going to get sucked out of a plane. So I win. So thanks, Alaska. No one died. So I'm good with it. To what Emmanuel is saying, there was one time someone was very mean to me on a flight before we took off. And I was in the aisle and they were in the middle. And I just pretended to be asleep so they couldn't get up to pee.

Incredible, incredible power play. That UTI brought to you by Josh Johnson. Yeah, I just like I really like lean because I was already napping on the tray table and I felt them poke me. And then I was like, you know, a table nap. I'm like, I'm not getting up. I'm not getting up. I'm not moving. That is amazing. Do you have any do you have any questions for Mark Cuban? Anything you're really interested to to hear from him? Yes, you you read my mind.

In a world where there is so much lack and so much of a gap between the sort of have and have not, how does someone like Mark Cuban maintain their status as a beloved billionaire? Because we're in a world now where he seems to me to be just as industrious as Elon or Bezos, but in different things. And it doesn't seem like his reach has offended the general public in the way that Elon and Bezos have. Yeah.

How has he managed to be so many people's bosses and have so much power, influence, and structure around himself and not drawn the ire of the general public? That's a great question, Josh. Sweet. I thought you were going to ask something random. Oh, no. I've learned my lesson. But it seems like your time blacksmithing has changed you. Yeah, Barry? Well, yeah. I mean, my question is, is he willing to invest in Josh's backpack hugs? Yes.

Because I think it could be, I don't know, it could be really big. You see, I feel like what happened here is Josh secretly sent you his question and you sent him yours and you've all tricked me here into not realizing where the questions have come from. I know a Josh Johnson question when I smell it. I will not be asking him if he'll invest in your backpack hooks.

Emmanuel, I'm going to get one from you and then we're going to jump into the interview. I really want to hear about before he was super successful in business, he tried to be an actor and he was in three episodes of Walker, Texas Ranger. Walker, Texas Ranger. Yep. I want to hear about that. I'm just very curious because now we think of him as $6.2 billion. He's also six to conspiracy Illuminati. That's a question. Yeah.

I'll stop there. I think the questions are getting worse. We'll leave the questions to you, Trevor. I actually think they were getting much better. Yes. Is it a coincidence that your height is the same as your money, Mark Cuban? I think that's a great question. It's conspiracy. All right, let's jump into it, y'all. Mark Cuban, coming up. Mark Cuban, the one and only. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me on. Yeah, man, it's great to have you. You know, you are... When people think of Mark Cuban, they go...

This is a human being who seems to know everything, do everything, get involved in everything and enjoy everything that he's doing. How do you see yourself? Because some people say Mark Cuban, immediately they go billionaire. Others go, you know, Dallas Mavericks owner. Other people go businessman. What's the first thing you think of when you think of Mark Cuban? Just a regular guy. Just, you know, that's been really fortunate. Regular? Yeah, for real. You know, just a kid from Pittsburgh that just, you know, has the same friends, you know.

Gets beat up by my three teenagers. Enjoys sports. I mean, loves business and technology. I don't know. I mean, I guess I don't think about myself that often, you know? Yeah. Same friends. Are these the same friends that you were selling, you know, trash bags with when you were a kid? Or are these the same friends you opened the...

The bar with? All the above. Yeah. So in Pittsburgh, yeah. I still got Stu, the big man, Bofie, Seymour, you know, all the nicknames you have. And we, you know, we do a Zoom call every two weeks, but still those are my buddies. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit about that. The young Mark Cuban, you know, I'm oftentimes most intrigued by

the, you know, the origin story of a very successful person. And yours intrigues me because, you know, you hear the story of this kid who grows up in, you know, in this area that doesn't seem particularly special, right? It seems like just like every town in America, everyone's going into work, doing their thing, living their life. And you had in you this insatiable attitude and idea of

I guess making money or what would you say your drive is? Is it making money or finding opportunity? Well, initially it was just making money because I mean, my dad and my mom, I mean, my dad did upholstery on cars. My mom did odd jobs. And, you know, as long as I can remember, it was like, okay, if you want something, you're going to have to go earn it and you're going to have to earn the money to do it.

Um, and that's just driven me. I mean, from selling baseball cards when I was nine to 10 years old to selling garbage bags, door to door, selling magazines, door to door, it always involves selling. And, you know, I honestly, if you can sell something door to door, your confidence goes through the roof and you just learn how to deal with things and you learn how to build your, you know, to interact with people and to be nice. And so I think those things really drove me. Huh? Yeah.

I used to sell things when I was a kid. I used to, um, at a pirated CD business. Um, beautiful, you know, allegedly that's what my lawyers say. Allegedly.

So I used to sell music, you know, like when CD writing was still a very new concept. And I know you were also like, I mean, you coded and you were in tech and everything. But I loved this idea that you could create from nothing. You had this new technology that could connect people in ways. And the computer was this novel idea. I sold things. I connected with people. A lot of your story I can relate to, except for the part where you become a billionaire. Yeah.

I need to understand what steps I missed. What mistakes did I make? That's the luck part. I mean, anybody who's a billionaire who thinks they could just do it all over again is lying their ass off. I mean, you know... Oh, interesting. Yeah, for sure. Because, you know, if the internet stock market hadn't just taken off when we were starting AudioNet, you wouldn't even know who I was. That's just, you know, that's just the way it works. And, you know, I...

I think, could I be a millionaire multiple times over? Yeah, because I could hustle. I could sell. I was smart. But the whole billionaire side of it, the hundreds of millions of dollars, that's just insane. And that was luck. Man, I like this. You know, I don't think I've ever heard anybody say that. It's like, you can make money. You can do well. But being a billionaire is just luck, right time, right place, everything. So literally, if I started you again, with all your knowledge today, you don't think you could be a billionaire? No. No.

Now, unless I got lucky again, right? I mean, could I find opportunities to get me there? There's only a few of those types of opportunities. You can start a hedge fund and hopefully do well. And then you raise a lot of money. You could take a company public. You can start a private company and be bought out. Those really are the primary ways to get to that level of wealth. And so could I try any or all of those things? Yeah. Like if I had to have, if you put me in the witness protection program

And nobody knew who I was and I had to just start purely from scratch, but I still knew what I know now. I could do well, but I would have to search out some unique opportunity. Because to be a billionaire, there's got to be something that's very leverageable, right? Something that just explodes financially. But there's a whole lot of people who are really, really smart, who do each and all, each of those things or one of them really well, and we don't know who they are. What do you think...

you need to possess to spot opportunity, you know? And this is outside the realm of being a billionaire, but what do you think it was inside you? Did you get it from your parents? Did you get it from your community? What was it that helped Mark realize that there were gaps in every market? Because you were selling stuff when you were a kid. How do you see those gaps? I mean, I was just...

the most curious person you could ever imagine. I mean, I just love to learn. I was that kid that was just reading everything I could get my hands on about business. And if you read enough, you're going to learn something to your advantage. Wait, wait, wait, go back, go back, go back. You said you were reading about business as a kid? Oh yeah. Like I was 10, 11, 12, you know,

You know, you name it. I was reading. This is the difference. Yeah. Business books all the time. You know, there was this kid, Barry Minkow, and he started this, um, um, this carpet cleaning company, Z Z Z Z best carpet cleaning. Right. And he took a company public when he was 21 years old and there was a book written about him. But the thing about it was it was completely a fraud. And.

And so he made all these tens of millions, if not a hundred million dollars as a 21 year old kid running this company, just fooling everybody and anybody he talked to. And I read that book as a kid and I was thinking, you know,

If this kid can fool all these adults, put aside the fraud. That just means there's lots of opportunity there to do something and build a business. And how old you are doesn't mean anything, right? If you can figure it out. And so I just always just took that and said, you know, I just keep on learning from what other people do and learn from their mistakes and learn what they do right. Yeah.

get a job, learn from you. You know, I would tell myself, you know, you pay to go to college, but then after you get a job, you get paid to learn. And I always, that's the way I looked at the jobs that I got, the way it looked at the jobs I got fired from, you know, everything was a learning experience and sooner or later added up to something of value.

One of the biggest things I've noticed in your story that's similar to a lot of people who are really successful is you never fit in, though. You never seem to fit into a strict corporate structure. No, that's for sure. I know one of your jobs you got fired from and you vowed, you were like, I'm never going back into corporate America again.

Like, what do you think it is about corporate America that doesn't work for you and other people who are, who are like entrepreneurs or really business minded? I think structure and limits. So one of my first jobs out of college, I went to work at Mellon bank in Pittsburgh. And again, I'm reading everything I could. And there was this old magazine called entrepreneur magazine.

And there was an article about how companies can save money on their social security taxes. So what do I do? I buy a copy. I earmark it. I write a little note on it and I send it to the CEO of this huge melon bank. I mean, with thousands and thousands.

thousands of employees and i get a note back saying thank you it's not quite a fit but my boss was like what the hell are you doing and then i started this i started the rookie club right where i would take i would get all the other people who had just started with me and i would go find a senior level executive and we'd take them out and get them drunk or her drunk and just sit there and chit chat and my boss john whippet hilarious i'll never forget he calls me into his office he goes what

what the fuck are you doing? And literally no lie. Like I start to like, I tear up and I start to cry and I tell, Oh, sorry. My contacts are bothering me because he's just yelling at me nonstop. And I'm 22 years old. And like, I'm just trying to do the best I can to help my company make more money. And it's just, that's, that's, that's the Delta, right? That's the difference because

I didn't look at it as just a job that I just wanted and I was going to work nine to five and just see where I could go. To me, it was an opportunity. And my only mission was to help my company make more money. And my peers and my bosses didn't quite see it that way. Yeah. You know, it's funny when you say it like that, it brings me to an idea that I often speak about with my friends, which is

I don't think anybody is not successful or I don't think anybody's not good at doing something. I just think that most of us aren't afforded the opportunity to do the thing that we are good at for money. And it seems like you were lucky enough to be in that position, right? You're 100% right. And for a lot of people, they can't even find what that one thing is. I really, truly believe that we're all...

God-given gifted at something. The hard part is finding it and having the confidence to try it. Um, and hoping that there's money that comes from it. Cause I feel like some people have a talent. Yeah. And maybe money's not the thing that drives you either. You know, I mean, we all have our own version of success. You know, when I was busted and with five roommates, um,

you know, I was still having fun. It wasn't my ultimate goal, but I mean, I was enjoying my life. So I think, you know, the hard part is just finding it's what I tell my kids, you know, you don't have to, you know, when you're 14, 17, 20 years old, you don't have to know what you're going to be when you grow up. You just have to be willing to be curious, excited to learn, love to learn. And then, you know, someday you'll find something that you really enjoy doing. Hopefully. Do you, do you think you're raising normal, well-adjusted kids?

That's the hope. That's the plan.

You know, you get unsolicited comments from friends or not even friends, but just people your kids come in contact with. And, you know, they say they're good kids and they are good kids, but, you know, they do the math, you know, they read the stories and so they know what's coming their way. And so, well, as much as we try to keep them grounded, we're not, you know, we're not a household that has servants and somebody doing everything for you all the time. It's just,

We try to just live as normally as we can having a plane. Yeah, and that's the thing, right? There's still those little things that jump out at you. You know, it's funny. One of the funniest stories I remember was I was speaking to Jerry Seinfeld about how you raise normal kids when you're living an extraordinary life.

And he said to me, and I mean, you know, Jerry's one of the funniest people ever. And he says to me, he goes, what he does is he always reminds his kids that he's rich, they're not rich. I've done the same thing many, many times. It's like we're talking about tattoos. And I said, tattoo on you, know you win will. You know? Just stuff like that, for sure. Yeah.

This is something that's always fascinating. What's your day? What's your routine like? I'm constantly bombarded with these. They always pop up on social media. It's like, live like a billionaire. Wake up at 4 a.m. Be up before the sun. Go to sleep before the sun goes down. Drink coffee that has butter in it. What's your routine, Mark? I get up probably 7, 6.37, just depending on the day. Oh, I like this. I like this already. Lay in bed.

Look at my email. Okay. Cause I try to do everything by email. And so then I'm in bed for like an hour, chilling, doing my emails, responding to anything that's urgent and then get up, get something to eat, go work out. Um, and then come back and rinse and repeat because I literally try to do as few meetings and calls as possible and try to gear everything towards email. And so, I mean, I'm on, I'm on my phone or my PC all day, every day. And that's it. That's it.

Man, I like this is the first normal response I've gotten from a really successful person where it's just like that sounds like an achievable way to live your life. You know, I mean, the whole value of being in this position is just being able to control your time. That's it. That's what I'm talking about. This is exactly what I'm talking about. But some people make it seem like the more successful you become, the less you are in control of your life, which then makes it seem like there's no incentive to get there. Right, right. I mean, look.

when I was in college, I bought this book, How to Retire by the Age of 35. And the whole premise of the book was live like a student, right? You don't have to have anything fancy. You just save up your money and, you know, just barely live off of what you need to live off of. And I was cool with that, right? Because like, that's the one thing you can't get back that just flies by. It's the one asset you can't control and can't, it's just,

And to me, just being able to control my own time so I can go to my kids' basketball games. I can just try to get them to engage with me and then have them turn their back on me more times a day, right? You know, it's just all those things in life that you just want to hold on to. Those are the things that I really value. We're going to continue this conversation right after this short break.

Well, you know, Mark, one of the reasons I wanted to chat with you on the podcast is because I honestly believe there are a few people out there who have more interesting opinions than

And not just opinions, but opinions that are based in experience or in some way, shape or form attached to what's actually happening in the world than Mark Cuban. Whether it's sports, we can talk about that. Whether it's politics, we can talk about that. You talk about business, everything, even medicine. And that's something I'm really fascinated about. I really want to get into it with you. But you're somebody who, if I try and sum you up,

Mark Cuban, in my opinion, is somebody who has always been in touch with what's happening in the world and trying to figure out what it means for both themselves and the people living in that world. Thank you. When you look at the world right now, what's your...

What's your feeling on it? Do you think things are getting better? Do you think things are staying the same or do you think things are getting worse? So there's tactical and there's strategic, big picture, right? Tactically, things are worse, right? Because, you know, how we consume information has changed dramatically over the past five years even, you know, and it continues to change.

And I think that's a real problem. And that's led to a lot of people falling into their own echo chamber and disassociating with each other. And that's a problem. But on the bright side, what I see in my kids, I'm very positive. Other than climate change always being a topic, they're positive about the future.

You know, they're excited and I feel good about them and the impact that they can have. So on one hand, when I look at Gen Z and our kids, I'm really positive and excited. On the other hand, when I look at adults,

you know, it reminds me of, you know, I'm, I'm a baby boomer and it's what a disappointment my generation has turned into. We started off really, really good with sex, drugs, and rock and roll, you know, and we started off, you know, protesting the Vietnam war and yada, yada, yada. And now we're the Fox news generation going down the rabbit holes. And that's kind of disappointing, but, you know, again,

Father Time is undefeated and the kids that are, you know, the kids are our future. I know every parent, every generation says that, but I truly believe it. Let me ask you this. Like, I'd love to know how you think you've maintained this ability ever.

To both be honest, but then also find a way to grow within the views that you have. Because, you know, I saw a post of yours. It's funny. I think both of us comment on it in different ways. But like, you know, this whole Boeing, the Boeing plane where the door blew off.

Yeah. And everyone's been speaking about that. And it was really fascinating how a lot of people online, and I think many of them spurred on by Elon Musk started talking about how, oh, you see, this is what happens when you have diversity. Boeing started having diversity and planes started falling apart. And you wrote this amazing post. You just laid out the facts. You said, hey, first of all, this is not what diversity is. Diversity is about expanding our scope to make sure that everyone gets looked at for the hiring because a lot of people weren't

looked at for the hiring. And then you said something that I really, really loved that I hope more people think about. You said we

We need to, and I'm paraphrasing, you basically said, we need to let go of the notion that we know who will be right for every job and understand that most of the time we are guessing based on a set of parameters that we've chosen. What do you, what did you mean by that? So as, as an entrepreneur and somebody who has hired forever and then actually learned I'm really bad at hiring and turned it over to others, um, most jobs, 99% of jobs, it's impossible to tell which candidate out of however many is the best.

If you're hiring a barista, how do you know who the best barista is? Do you put them behind a counter and say, how fast can you make that mocha? You just don't know. If you're hiring for a sales rep, maybe you can look at their history, but when you put them in this new position, you don't know. And there's a reason why they're willing to leave their last job, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And so 99% of the time when you're hiring, it's a guess.

And so the whole idea that you can just use merit to make a determination in how you hire for every job is just wrong.

And anybody who's hired, you know, quite a few positions just, just knows that. And so, you know, and I, I wanted to get that out there because it was on Twitter X, right. And you, the way it's all set up there, it's, you know, it's Elon's little echo chamber that rewards people that, that he rewards. Right. And so I knew I was going into the lion's den and that I was just, people were just going to shit on me left and right, which exactly why I wrote it. Right. Because that made it more interesting, more fun. Um,

Um, but it also, that was the audience that needed to hear it. And, and if there was, you know, one light that light bulb that came on, that's a win.

Yeah, man, I really appreciate that about you, the way you think about the world. It's really interesting. It's dynamic. Obviously, I also love it because you're involved in sport. You said something about sports as well in that post where you said, as somebody who's worked in sports for a long time, I've realized even if you draft the best player, they may not end up being the best player. And some of the undrafted players go on to be the best players. Correct.

What do you think of the current players that have been drafted? I mean, Victor Wimbanyama, that seems like it was the right choice. Oh, yeah, he's great. He's phenomenal. Yeah, he's phenomenal, right? I mean, we've got a great young crop of players who are just getting better. The league is really competitive on any given night. And what's interesting, Trevor, social media has acted in some respects as a training course. Like when I was a kid growing up, there were no trainers. You just went to your basketball team or football team and

Whenever you had practice and then you worked on your game, maybe some afterwards. Now there's instructional videos online for every position in every sport. And the skill levels are going higher and higher and higher. And so the players are better. The quality of the games are better. And I think that's overall a positive. What do you think?

fans do not understand about the running of a team because as fans, there is no denying that we all think we can do a much better job than every team owner and every manager that exists. Yeah, for sure. Every single... If you're a fan, you sit watching the games, whether you're at the stadium or whether you're at home, and you go, why didn't they do this? Why didn't they get that player? I know, right? These idiots don't know what they're doing. What do you think...

Fans don't know that that might change their perspective on what it means to actually run a team I don't know if it'll change your perspective, but I think they don't truly understand the impact of luck, you know I'll give you the all-time luck story like Steph Curry

arguably one of the top 10 players, top five players of all time. When he first got started, there was a backcourt made of his Monte Ellis, who ended up playing for the Mavs actually. Also very good, maybe even a little better than Steph at the time. And Golden State was getting ready to do a trade with the Milwaukee Bucks for Andrew Bogut. They gave the Milwaukee Bucks the choice of Steph Curry or Monte Ellis. If the Bucks had taken Steph Curry,

History is written completely differently in the NBA. Luck is just such a huge component. Luck is such a huge impact in sports, every sport. I don't think fans truly appreciate that. As much as fans, we think we're smart. As owners, sometimes we think we're smart. General managers think they're smart. I'll take luck over smart every single time.

I'll take luck over smart every single time. For sure. Yeah, I mean, the Mavs have been a powerhouse team for a long time. Many have correctly attributed that success to you. What did you change?

in an organization that had been running for so long that enabled it to become the successful institution that it is today? Because it wasn't always what it is today, and now it's turned into a powerhouse. What do you think you changed? Well, it's what I didn't change. I had a great player named Dirk Nowitzki that I kept for a long, long time. A great player, Luka Doncic. So sometimes it's what you don't do that's the smartest thing you do. I remember coming in and I

I just thought, you know what? I'm just going to run it the way I run a business. I'm an entrepreneur. What's worked for me, why would I change? And so I came in immediately like, okay, we're going to train the players. So traditionally basketball teams had three or four coaches. We had 15. We had one coach.

player development coach for every player. Now that every team does that, we were going to make it so that, you know, players got the best of everything because they travel, their bodies are their job. Right. So just, I just brought common sense, I think more than anything else. And it wasn't that it was any notion that was so ridiculously creative. It was just common sense. And the old guys who ran the teams before I got to the NBA just didn't think that way.

What do you think of politics in sports? I ask this because, you know, 2024 is going to ramp up. It's going to gear up to be, I would argue, and I hope I'm wrong, by the way, I think it may be one of the most vicious elections America has been involved in in a very long time. And...

You know, athletes and sports teams are always caught in this strange place where some people believe sports should always remain agnostic. It should only be about sport and allow it to be an escape for people. You know, others will say, no, this is a platform. People have a responsibility. This is where they can speak out. But then the debate becomes, what can they speak out about and how much of it can they speak out to? What's your opinion on athletes and sports?

and franchises and politics? - Well, there may be debate, but the reality is when you become a high profile professional athlete, you don't lose your rights as a citizen. And if it's important to you and what you believe in and you have a platform,

Of course, you're going to use it. Why wouldn't you? I mean, it's just like you use your platform. I use my platform because we've earned that right to do that. And if it's important to us, we use it. So while I may not agree with what every athlete says across every sport, I certainly respect their right to do so. And in terms of teams, that's a little bit more difficult because no matter what, you're going to have fans and customers who are on both sides of the aisle or both sides of any topic. And so, you know, we'll...

We'll try to be supportive of the things we truly believe in without going overboard. So we'll put out a statement saying, look, this is what we believe and this is what we agree in, and we'll leave it at that. We're not going to go out there and invest in buying advertising to promote this point of view or anything. We'll use our social media platform, make our statement, and pretty much leave it at that.

Help me break this down. You're not leaving the team, but you are selling your majority stake. Right. So I still have 27% and I'll still run basketball operations. But the reality is, you know, sports evolve. And when I first got in in 2000, technology and media were really the driving factors for revenue. And I was good at those things. I'm good at those things. Right. And so I had a...

competitive advantage and I was able to generate revenue. Now that's changing. The media, as you know better than anybody, right? Media has changed dramatically. The incumbent companies no longer in the position of strength that they once were. Revenue scenarios are changing dramatically. And that change has meant that in order to be a leading revenue generating team, which pays for those salaries, you have to be in real estate. You have to be in entertainment centers and just...

potentially casinos. And those are things I don't have the slightest clue in. And so I don't need to pretend that I can afford to spend a billion dollars in something I don't understand. So I brought in a great partner. Wow. Yeah. I brought in great partners, um,

Patrick Dumont, who runs the Sands, and Marianne Adamson, who was one of the owners. And they know that stuff inside and out. They have those types of properties around the world, and they're amazing. And so they made a great partner. They're not hardcore. They're basketball fans, but they don't want to run a team, and I don't want to run a real estate operation. You're also stepping away from Shark Tank. I got one more year. Yeah.

One more year. And then you're out there as well. Then I'm out, yeah. It feels like this is a period of transitions for you. No. No, no, no, no. No? No, no. It's not a transition. It's just, you know, self-awareness and reality setting in, right? On one hand, like...

Like I just said, I don't know real estate and I'm not going to mess around with a billion dollars to find out. Right. I don't need to fuck around and find out where a billion dollars to, you know, a shark tank, you know,

While my kids were all in high school or younger, all their schedules were aligned. And when we were shooting Shark Tank in September and June, all right, we can make it all work. And then in between, the kids would do what we tell them to do. Now my oldest is a sophomore in college and she wants to do her own thing. The middle one is a really...

really, really good rower and she's getting recruited and she's working her ass off to be amazing. And so their schedule drives the train, not mine. And so I don't want to. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So one more year because I don't want to leave Shark Tank hanging because I still love the show. I still love what it stands for. And those reruns will run for the next 700 years. But I just wanted more time with my kids. That's it in a nutshell. Oh, wow. I thought you were running for president. No, no. My kids would disown me. My family would disown me if I did that. So no.

Oh, so you wouldn't consider it at all? No, just because my family. No. If, yeah, with my kids and everything, this is just, I don't want to look back when I'm 95 and say, oh yeah, that extra season of Shark Tank really made the difference instead of going to Europe with my family, you know? Or, boy, I'm glad I ran for president and got my ass kicked because, you know, and missed those three years or four years. No, it's just,

You know, I'm not young, but I'm not so old that I couldn't, you know, put it off four years or eight years or if I decide to do anything. Don't go anywhere because we got more What Now? after this. Let's talk about some of the other things Mark Cuban is involved in. You are engaged in one of the most interesting ventures ever. And this is about getting people access to low cost drugs, medicine, drugs.

One of the craziest things about living in America is being in a country that is a first world country, that is one of the richest nations in the world, that excels in almost everything business-wise and all of these ideas.

And the health care system is just horrendous. It's insane. You know, people have to keep jobs that they don't want to keep because they're terrified of losing their health care and they can't support their family's health. And the whole system is tied up into this weird, gunky mess that doesn't work the way it should. You've stepped in and you've decided to, I mean, really, really shake things up.

Yep. Talk to me about the inception and the idea behind this, because there are very few people who could do this. And I want to know why you thought you could do this and how you think you're going to do it without being blackballed by the big boys. Right. So CostPlusDrugs.com is the name of the company. And I started becoming a healthcare geek probably six, seven years ago during the Trump administration when they said they were going to try to get rid of...

the ACA on the affordable care act and they didn't have anything to replace it. So I'm like, okay, you know, if, if the shit hits the fan, I want to at least, you know, understand what's going on. And. Well, to be fair to Trump, he said he was, he said he was going to replace it with something much better, much better. There were no specifics, but he did say, he did say he was going to replace it with something much better. And why would we not believe him? Right. But just because I'm curious and I wanted to know more. So I started getting into it and just,

you know, happenstance. I got an email, cold email from a Dr. Alex Oshmayansky who was starting a compounding pharmacy in Denver. And what he wanted to do was take generics that were in short supply and make them and sell them cheaper. The challenge was with that is that it was very difficult to scale. So we started talking. I'm like, okay, let's start this company where we sell these generics that you wanted to make, but we just buy them and sell them. But we're very transparent about our pricing.

And let's call it costplusdrugs.com because we were able to get that URL. So we started it. And the whole premise is very, very simple. We buy drugs. We sell drugs from costplusdrugs.com. But we show you our cost. We show you our 15% markup. We show you our shipping and handling fees.

And that's it. But by doing that, a couple of things happened. We publish our price list. So now everybody who buys any type of medication at all, even if you have good insurance, you may go to costplusdrugs.com and see that the medication you take by buying from us is cheaper than your copay from your great insurance program at work. Yeah.

So, but by putting that transparent price list out there and by limiting our markup to 15%, we're able to sell a lot of medications, just thousands, in some cases, tens of thousands of dollars cheaper than what they were being sold for before.

Because what happens in our healthcare system, talking about being screwed up, you go to your doctor, he says, okay, Trevor, I'm going to prescribe you this. And the next words out of his mouth aren't, can you afford it? Or let's talk about costs. It's what pharmacy do you use?

And then you go to the pharmacy and you may or might not even know what your copay is. You don't know what the cost is. The company that you work for who's paying for the health insurance, if they are paying, doesn't know what they're paying. There's just no transparency whatsoever. So by introducing transparency, now everybody's getting to see that they're paying too much for their medications. And that's had a profound change in the entire industry. And now these incumbents

they're, they're trying to copy us. Now they're lying when they try to do it. They say, okay, we're starting our own cost plus program, but they get to pick the path, the cost that they mark up and they don't tell you the market, et cetera, et cetera. So we've had, so now costplusdrugs.com, you know, we've had millions of customers. We've, I don't even know how much money we've saved. You know, we've had scenarios where, you know, um,

And we hear this every week, it seems like. Somebody was paying $26,000 a year and we cut their costs down to $200 a year, right? They went to CVS and the price for their chemotherapy medication was going to be $2,000 and our price was $21. You know, it's just completely insane, is right? And it's just the first step for us. Right now, we went, like when we last talked about this, I think we had a couple,

probably hundreds of drugs. Now we're up to 2,400 drugs. By this time next year, we'll have a full complement of brand drugs. Help me understand this then. Am I correct or am I naive in assuming that the price of medicines in America are only the prices of medicines in America because

These drug companies are greedy and can afford to be greedy because nobody stops them. No, that's actually not the case. And so. Okay. What is it? It's crazy. So two things. First, there's generic drugs and there's branded drugs. Right. So Eloquist, branded, right. Et cetera. So Viagra branded, et cetera. Right. Right. And, but there's a generic for Viagra. I'm not saying I know anybody who uses it, but there is. And so. Yeah.

So for generic drugs, those 2,400 plus drugs that we sell at Cost Plus Drugs, we're cheaper than any other country in the world except maybe India and China. So there's people from Canada who are trying to get us to sell them generics in Canada and in other countries, et cetera. Oh, wait, so now you flipped it around because normally people want to buy from Canada because it's cheaper. Correct. Now you flipped that around. Correct, for generic drugs. Now on branded drugs,

Branded drugs typically are sold through insurance or Medicare. And most people have Medicare Advantage if they have Medicare. And that works through an insurance company. And it's the insurance company, the big insurance companies, and what's called a pharmacy benefit manager that negotiates those prices with big pharma, who in turn is forced by those companies to pay a big rebate.

Because they're paying rebates to the PBMs, that jacks up the retail price of that brand drug. When you talk to the manufacturers of those drugs, there's exceptions. There's some drugs like the weight loss drugs. They can't even make enough. They're keeping those prices high no matter what. The rebate's not impacting them at all. For most brand drugs...

It's not the manufacturer that's selling it at the highest price. It's the insurance company and the pharmacy benefit manager who are jacking it up so they can retain a rebate. So literally when we come in and add transparency, the brand manufacturers, the big pharma guys, they love us.

So they don't mind you because you're actually stepping in as-

So the drug company doesn't mind making that $300 because they're making the $300 no matter what. They're making the $300, but they'd rather sell that drug through us and us just market up 15% rather than it being sold for $1,000. So that's part of our battle right now because those pharmacy benefit managers don't want the brand manufacturers to sell through us. And that's leading to even other problems because those brands, those

The insurance companies and the pharmacy benefit managers, they're destroying, maybe destroying is too strong a word, but really negatively impacting the independent pharmacy business. That local pharmacy that works with your grandma and has known her for 30 years, right?

They actually, when you buy that brand, that brand drug from your local pharmacy, the pharmacy is now losing money on those brands and they're losing more and more money because of the games the pharmacy benefit managers play.

And it's just, it's horrific. And so we're trying to work directly with the pharma manufacturers to help, you know, we put together a network of independent pharmacies. So instead of losing $10 every time they sell a brand drug, they're gonna start making money. And this is gonna sound crazy, but if you work for a local independent pharmacist

and you're getting a brand drug, ask them if they're losing money on it. And if there's a way to do a cash price or even ask them if you can tip them. Cause literally I've started tipping my local independent pharmacy because they are getting crushed when they sell you. Oh, it's horrible. It's horrible. It's horrible.

There's thousands of independent pharmacists are just toast because of these rules and these chargebacks and all these games the pharmacy benefit managers are playing. And you know what? To make matters worse, when you look at a pharmacy benefit manager, if I put on my Shark Tank hat and they walked in on Shark Tank and I said, okay, what is the one thing that you do that every one of your customers needs and can't live without? There's not one damn thing.

There's not one thing that they do. It's just that they're so big. They're just in the right position. Exactly right. They just have scale and it's the way it's always been done. And we are going to fuck them up. I promise you with everything I have. I hope so, man. I really, really hope so. I feel like if there's one person who can do it, it's you. You've been doing that your whole life. You found the gaps. You found the opportunities. You found the moments where there's... And I think what I appreciate about this situation is

There's a lesson that I think many people don't seem to understand is that you can make money and you can profit whilst not completely just like ripping people off and taking everything away from them. For sure. And you're seeing that right now in America where like,

You know, like obviously inflation is up and, you know, post COVID everything shot up. But then you see these companies where they use that opportunity to raise their prices more than they would have normally. Which is crazy. It's like you can still make a profit without completely ripping people off. The most important product for any company starting right now or any company period is trust.

Because nobody trusts anybody at all. And that's why in healthcare, by being transparent, we build trust. Because that really, right, where our prices are important, the fact that we're transparent, trust is our number one priority. Companies are starting to realize that. And more and more, particularly young entrepreneurs, recognize that I can do well by doing good or do good by doing well, right? And I think that's really changing things

Now it's obviously like you said, there's companies like, you know, you, you look at your water bar, water bottle. It used to be 24 ounces. Now it's 23 ounces. Your cereal used to be 12 ounces. Now it's 11 ounces, but we don't raise our prices. Right. Yeah. It's really slick. Right. But there's a real opportunity for entrepreneurs there. You know, if you can just live up to the trust that people expect, you've stepped into multiple different, different fields and you've disrupted them. You know, you, you came into sports with a new attitude, uh,

You've stepped into medicine with a new attitude. A lot of people may not know this, but really one of the biggest things you did was in tech. You self-taught when it came to coding. You knew computers were going to be huge. You were working on networks as a youngster. You were really ahead of the game when it came to this. I'd love to know what you think of this next revolution that we're witnessing right now. AI is ubiquitous. AI is...

In everything, everywhere you go now, from your car rental agency to your language learning app to, you know, you name it, AI is involved. And, you know, obviously there's going to be benefits. And then there are also things that we should be wary about. But as somebody who has not just made a lot of money in tech, but also spent a lot of time in tech,

What are your views on AI? From a business perspective, there's only two types of companies. The companies that are great at AI and everybody else.

That's it. You have to know AI. And AI breaks into both for our regular lives and business lives. AI breaks into two types. One, there's the large language models, the chat GPT, and that's really the biggest important part. And then there's just using AI for optimization, right? You know, how do I ship my widgets faster and better and cheaper than before? But for the large language models, it's going to change everything. Some little kid born today...

Their life is going to be insane. And I'll give you an example. Right now, like I have emails, like I said, I do everything via email, right? If I were to take all those emails that I have going back 30 years and put them into a large language model, and I created a hologram of myself, I actually have a company who does holograms, hypervision, and combine those two together.

You could have this conversation with my hologram. And if the quality hologram was good enough, you wouldn't know it wasn't me. Because a large language model is able to ingest as much information from a person, by a person, about a person. As you can feed it. Right. Now imagine that for your little baby and all those videos we take on our phone, all the first Google.

guys, all the first steps, all their papers, all their drawings. And you put that into Trevor's baby's large language model. By the time that you're doing that for 10, 12 years, that best friend is that little kid's best friend is themselves out of a large language model. It is going to be insane. Insane. That is scary. Every kid, just like kids now have social media accounts.

They will have their own large language models. There'll be tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions of large language models. Every kid will have their own. It may run their social media for them. It's funny you say that. One of the biggest, I would say one of the biggest GPTs that's been hyped. So you know ChatGPT has these offshoots where people can create their own and sell them off. And even though they've basically banned it,

One that's really popular is a chat GPT girlfriend or boyfriend. Oh, yeah. And what people are doing now is they're actually dating their chat GPT. Yes. And people are saying they're having more fulfilling relationships. Of course they are. They feel less lonely. They feel more connected. Yeah.

Of course. I mean, think about when you were a teenager, no matter what generation, right? You're sitting in front of a TV, you're listening to music, and you're connecting to your music, right? And your music spiritually fulfilled you. Or you're teaching yourself an instrument, or you buy yourself a little guitar. I remember sitting for hours trying to, you know, C, D, G, right? And just teach myself...

you know, and we found, we try to connect in whatever way, emotionally, spiritually, whatever it may be that we can. And this is a way where they don't fight back. Right. And they work on your schedule and you don't have to be an expert and there's no expectations. And now, you know,

On the extremes, there's always going to be negative consequences, right? Somebody takes it too far one way or the other. But in the middle, I think it's a positive, right? Because there's somebody there to talk to you. There's somebody there. And with all these

tens of millions of large language models, you'll be able to say, you know, there's this psychologist or psych, you know, whatever it may be, social worker who has some really interesting things. I'm going to get that module for my 15 year old, because I think having that something, that large language model to talk to that I know has been influenced by somebody I trust is going to be a positive. Man, it's a, it's,

It is both equally, it's terrifying and exciting in equal measure because we don't know what to expect. It's one of the few times in human history where we're living on the precipice. You don't live in the world you were born into, you know? Yeah, right?

Yeah, that's a great way to put it. So, Mark, I'm going to ask you a question that I ask all my guests on the podcast, and that is, what now? I feel like it's the perfect time to ask it to you because you're opening up space and place in your life. And you've answered some of it, but you're stepping away from some of the positions you hold on the basketball team, the Dallas Mavericks.

You are going to be stepping away from Shark Tank in a year. So what now? What does Mark Cuban look at as the next era of his life? I mean, my kids and healthcare, right? I mean, I just, you know, I'm not someone who thinks about legacy a lot. I'm certainly not the type of person to put my name on a building. But at the same time, I think if I can...

have enough of an impact on healthcare where, you know, people don't have to stress about it the way they are, where people, you know, we get to a point where healthcare is a right, you know, it's not an affordability issue. I think we can get there. When I, when I look at what I know now about healthcare, there's a lot that can be stripped away and there's a path to get there. That's not as difficult, I think, as people think.

And so if I can just keep on grinding it out every single day and just, you know, taking another brick out of that wall, I think there's a lot of really cool changes that can happen that can make this country a better place. It's a fantastic idea to have for your future, you know, spending more time with family and trying to help other people spend more time with their families, ironically, because of their health.

Well, Mark Cuban, thank you for the time. Thanks, Trevor. Thank you for your insights. And yeah, good luck for the season and everything else that you do, my friend. I appreciate it. Thanks, Trevor. Always fun.

What Now with Trevor Noah is produced by Spotify Studios in partnership with Day Zero Productions, Fullwell 73, and Odyssey's Pineapple Street Studios. The show is executive produced by Trevor Noah, Ben Winston, Jenna Weiss-Berman, and Barry Finkel. Produced by Emmanuel Hapsis, Marina Henke, Jess Hackle, Natalie Pertz, and Chelsea Williamson.

Music, mixing, and mastering by Hannes Braun. Thank you so much for listening. Join me next Thursday for another episode of What Now?