Syria: What will the refugees do now?
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This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. I saw where the bomb had landed and it was literally where I was 20 seconds before. This is Ayman. He left Syria when he was 18 and came to the UK via Turkey and France. We looked at the situation in Syria and it was even worse.

So going back wasn't an option and eventually I found myself in a dinghy. Syria has been in the news a lot recently. Just over a week ago, the former president Bashar al-Assad was overthrown by rebels. Under his violent regime, protesters and activists were killed or put in jail.

Six million people left the country and seven million have been displaced internally by the civil war that started 13 years ago. According to the UN, it's the world's largest refugee crisis. Now, many Syrians abroad are asking when they can go back home. So today, you're going to hear stories of people like Eamon as we look at what caused this crisis and what comes next for Syrian refugees around the world. I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is What in the World from the BBC World Service.

Before we get into this episode, we have talked about Assad's regime and how it ended in another episode of the podcast. It's called Syria, What You Need to Know. So if you haven't listened to it, I'd recommend you go back to that one first. Here in the studio with me is BBC journalist Lina Shaikouni. Hello. Hi, Hannah. So under Assad's regime, millions of people left Syria. Can you talk me through the refugee crisis? Sure.

Yeah, so the Syria refugee crisis is dubbed as the worst refugee crisis by the UNHCR. If we go back to the beginning in March 2011, when protests started after some kids wrote some anti-government graffiti on the walls of Daraa in the south of Syria,

and then a mass movement swept the country. The government's response from the beginning was a heavy and harsh crackdown on demonstrators. This led a lot of people to be forced outside of their homes for their own safety. And that escalated over the years, especially after 2012 when it became an armed conflict and a civil conflict between opposition armed forces and the Syrian government forces.

And how did that lead to having so many refugees? It's twofold, right? There were people who were inside conflict zones and inside the battle zones.

that fled the bloodshed and that fled the heavy Syrian army planes bombarding the areas, plus the clashes between the government and the opposition forces. And there are people who weren't necessarily inside the battle zones, but they were activists themselves.

linked to the protest movement. So what would happen is all these people would be under the risk of being forcibly displaced or being detained by the Syrian government. So people who were known activists were also, even if they weren't part of the armed opposition, they were under threat of being arrested and I should say detained because there was no kind of legal framework for why they would be detained.

So all of this would lead to mass displacement of people all around the country, but primarily as well outside the country of millions of Syrians who are all over the world. What are the main countries that they've gone to? So the bulk of the Syrian refugees are in neighboring countries. In Turkey alone, there are around 3.3 million Syrians. There are Syrians who have reached...

the US, Canada, Australia, Europe. I mean, there's a huge Syrian population in Germany, the Netherlands. We would always say there's nowhere these days, there's nowhere in the world where there isn't

at least one Syrian refugee. What is life like for Syrian refugees living in the neighbouring countries? What are the conditions like for them? If we're talking about neighbouring countries such as Jordan or Lebanon, Lebanon in particular, these are countries that have already their own challenges economically and politically inside the country.

So the influx of refugees from Syria have added to the burden. They usually live in impoverished areas, places that aren't really proper shelter areas. They don't benefit from strong economic support.

They usually are in displacement camps. So obviously there is help from UN agencies and NGOs and local NGOs. But when you're talking about this massive number of people, it's a difficult thing to manage. There's also been some reports throughout the years of discrimination against Syrian refugees in neighbouring countries, whether it's in Lebanon or Jordan or Turkey. Let's hear from Yusra Mardini.

Before the war, she was a professional swimmer for Syria. In 2015, her house was destroyed and she and her sister fled the country. Since then, she's competed at the Rio and Tokyo Olympics as part of the refugee Olympic team. There's even a film about her and her sister called The Swimmers. She is now living in Berlin as a German citizen and here she is talking about the war. We had bombs in the pool. We had bombs in school. Every time you left Berlin,

the house, you would say goodbye to your family and you wouldn't know if you'll ever see them again. We didn't know if we will survive. And we saw that a lot of people were leaving the country, especially young men, because they had to go to the army once they turned 18.

So my sister and I had the idea and we told my dad and obviously he was terrified of the idea of letting two girls go, one 17 and one 20 years old. So they said no multiple times and then they allowed us to go

It wasn't an easy thing, it wasn't an easy decision. Unfortunately, as many, many people say that went through this journey, no one leaves their home unless the water is safer. Referring to the very dangerous journeys that refugees take through the Mediterranean to make it to safety in Europe.

You heard from Ayman al-Hussein at the start. He's a Syrian refugee who works as a filmmaker here in the UK, and he's also part of a project called Asylum Speakers that tells the stories of refugees. I asked him why he left Syria in the first place. The first reason was that I was arrested twice for protesting. The second time I was arrested for 14 days.

And I was lucky that the people in the town where I used to live, it's called Menbij,

had surrounded the police station and forced them to free all the detainees. After the police had let us go, the day after, the Syrian regime had started bombing the city. So a few weeks after that, after lots of bombings, I was going to the town centre to buy a few things before Eid, the Ramadan celebration, and I heard the airstrike coming.

And I was on a small motorbike and I threw it on the floor and I went down a basement. And a few minutes later when we got out, I saw where the bomb had landed and it was literally where I was 20 seconds before. And it was one of the most horrific things that I've ever experienced because I saw more than 50 people who died.

And hundreds got injured. And for me and for my family, that was the moment of realisation that we actually need to seek refuge somewhere. I was 18. And, you know, none of us as a family, me, my brother, or my dad wanted to take any part in that regime or like serving in military service. So we...

we all decided to leave. So me, my dad, my sister and my brother, we all left to Turkey. And you eventually came here to the UK. Tell me a bit about that journey. At the beginning, we tried to stay in Turkey. I tried to stay in Turkey and I even studied uni there. But given the rights for refugees in Turkey, people were not allowed to work.

And in 2015, when I graduated, I wasn't allowed to work as a refugee. And there were talks about sending people back to Syria. We looked at the situation in Syria and it was even worse. ISIS was there in the town where we used to live and many other towns and regime was betraying people in other towns as well.

So going back wasn't an option. And eventually I found myself on a dinghy, going from Turkey to Greece. And after that, it was around August 2015. So it was the time when mass migration was happening, especially for people from Syria. Lots of countries in Europe were welcoming people. For me, I had two family members in Manchester. So my goal was to get to the UK quickly.

I had a friend who took the dinghy with me, who was going to Germany, so we split apart. And he went to Germany, I continued to France, and then I got to a camp called The Jungle. I'm talking to you today because it is just over a week since these recent events in Syria, Assad being overthrown. And I want to hear a bit about your reaction. How did you feel initially when you heard that news?

I was in disbelief, to be honest, because my whole life I've never thought this day will come and, you know...

I thought if it would ever happen, it would be when I am like really, really old. So I was in shock and, you know, it was a shock for everyone, really, like not just me. But now thinking it's actually real and it's really, really happy. The happiness was short-lived, to be honest. When we started hearing all the stories from the prisons and all those who are

you know, missing their families or like looking for the families. Everything that's happened, these events, how will they affect your choices and your decisions? Do you want to go back to Syria?

Yeah, it's more of it is now possible, where before it wasn't at all. It wasn't really an option. It's really good to know that I have that option now, though things are still very unstable at the moment. You know, the infrastructure is completely destroyed. And there are a lot of things that need to change to make people feel safe to go back.

If you do go back to Syria, what would that mean for your life here? As we speak, at the moment, I have an indefinite leave to remain in the UK, which means I can stay indefinitely there.

But it's based on a refugee status. So if I go back today, I would lose my refugee status and I can't come back here. That is something not anyone would want to risk without having some guarantees that, you know, Syria is actually safe and safe.

Because at the moment, you know, there's nothing guaranteed. We also got in touch with a young Syrian who lives in Lebanon, which has hosted at least 1.5 million refugees since the war began. That's according to the government. She sent us this. Hello, my name is Hazar, 22 years old. Originally from Damascus, Syria and currently living in Lebanon. Recently, I have regained hope of returning to my homeland, but I have decided to wait until I complete my degree.

Actually, my goal is to equip myself with knowledge and the skills necessary to contribute meaningfully to the rebuilding of my country. I hope to play a critical role in improving healthcare and driving economic growth in my country.

Back to Lina, who has also been speaking to Syrian refugees who've made perilous journeys in search of safety. A lot of the people who literally, you know, came on boats and came through different, you can call it illegal routes.

they were desperate. You know, they had families, they had young ones, and all they wanted was a shot to kind of build a future and build something for their families. And so it was a very dangerous thing to take that route in itself. So when you talk to people...

who have taken the routes to come to Europe. And you hear the stories of, I didn't want to put my family in so much risk because I had no other choice. I wasn't living anyway. For a lot of Syrians...

For 14 years, we've seen so much destruction and so much pain. I feel like what we notice is a huge sense of heartbreak of people kind of not knowing what's the way forward anymore. What's the idea of Syria? Are we ever going to go back? You know, so many people I've heard of going through depression spells. You know, there was something where you feel like some people have just been broken.

This has been replaced right now by a bit of hope from most people. There are people who are worried. There are people who are scared about what the future might entail. Obviously, there's so many uncertainties, so many questions. Currently, the interim government is asking all refugees to come back to Syria, which is great news.

But there needs to be clarity about what's going to happen in terms of rebuilding the country and having a place for all these people to go so they can start building a life there. Lina, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And what about Eamon? How does he feel about Syria's future? I am very optimistic about Syria and I'm hoping that we're going to have a really positive

government that is respectful to all ethnicities and religions in Syria, that is going to be giving the people the ability to speak and give their opinions without being punished for it. I'm hoping for that. And I know the Syrian people and I know that they will make it happen. You know, Assad was the biggest obstacle we had in the past 54 years.

And if we manage to get rid of Assad, I think we can do anything. Several European countries, including the UK, have put asylum applications for Syrians on hold while they wait to see what happens in the country. And in the past few days, British diplomats have been meeting with the leader of the rebel group HTS, Ahmed al-Sharaa.

He said sanctions against Damascus must be lifted so displaced Syrians can return. And that is it for today's episode. Thank you for listening and thanks to our guests for sharing their stories. If you want to find out more about what's going on in Syria, there are lots of articles on the BBC News website. I'm Hannah Gelbart and this is What In The World from the BBC World Service. We'll see you next time. Yoga is more than just exercise. It's the spiritual practice that millions swear by.

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