Van Dijk contract 'offer' & Reds seek response at Goodison after rare slip-up at St James'
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network.

I'm here with James Pearce and Simon Hughes, and we'll look back on the draw at St. James' Park. We'll look forward to the Derby on Saturday. And guess what? We've got the quiz back!

Oh, you want to see the faces of James and Simon, the celebrating, the joy, the excitement. But first, we'll go to those three words. And Simon, I'm going to come to you because you've been prepared in recent weeks. You've turned over a new leaf. What's happened? It's not the Simon news. I know, and I was going to say love, but love is the wrong word. That's too strong. Way too strong. Can I just clarify something before we start? Are we on one all in terms of the quiz?

I think we are. I think we are. I think we are. This could be the tiebreaker. This could be 2025 or 2024. I'm a year ahead. It could be the game of the year, the quiz of the year. It decides everything. Well, nobody knows more about Everton than James. So if it's a Derby quiz, he's in pole position. So my three words are not now, Quivine. Well, yeah, fair play, fair play, James.

Seven points clear. Well, seven points clear, yeah. Not as good as nine, but seven is pretty good. And especially after a difficult away game like that. Let's see what you're saying. Stephen Riley, catch the ball! Yep. Ahmad Hussaini, it could be worse. I agree with both of them. Joe Davis, seven points ahead. He can cares with you. James and Jim Richards, better than losing.

to join our community of listeners on Facebook. Just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. It was some game, James, wasn't it, at St. James' Park? It struck me as probably we could have lost, we should have won, and we drew. It's one of those games where if any of those results would have occurred, then you'd probably go, well, yeah, it was just about right.

Yeah, it was a strange one to make sense of. We had just got back to Liverpool, actually, having driven back this morning. It didn't feel... Did you load up on Greggs? I didn't. I can vouch for a solid 8 out of 10 fry-up at the Novotel before setting off. Really set me up for the day ahead. Where did they drop marks, James? The sausage. They lost one for the sausage, just...

just quality of meat really. And, and maybe it was my own fault for sleeping until nine, but the fried eggs, they lose one for that little bit rubbery. Maybe, maybe it'd been under the heater for a bit too long, you know, when they've just been hanging around a bit. Overcooked eggs. Yeah, gone a little bit funny at the edges, but you know, by and large, apart from that, I can't pick any holes, but yeah,

I think you could pick a fair few holes in that Liverpool performance. Oh, great segue. What a segue. Well, let's move on from Eat On, your food podcast with James Pearce, to Walk On. It was a strange game to make sense of, wasn't it? Because you kind of... Of course, when you concede so late, it's an absolute slug in the guts and you think...

You know, of course, it feels like two points dropped. And I felt really sorry for Kaveen Keller because as we've, you know, every week we've been singing his praises. He's been sensational.

And it was just a real rare misjudgment from him, wasn't it? It was so avoidable. He'll be kicking himself, hurting more than anyone else, I'm sure, today. But when you take a step back and look at the game as a whole, it was probably about right. I mean, Liverpool were miles off it first half. I thought Liverpool looked jaded. I just thought how much it had taken out of them to go on this...

what was it, seven straight wins in all competitions. In particular, those, you know, high stakes games against Real Madrid and Man City. Um,

There was an awful lot wrong in that first half. Newcastle had so much more energy and intensity to their work. But then there was a lot to enjoy about that resurgence in the second half. But even at 3-2, it just felt too open. Liverpool didn't have that kind of control we've come to expect from Slot's team so far this season. But yeah, I think when you look at it as a whole,

I think, well, Arsenal lost at St. James's, didn't they? Man City only drew there. Newcastle aren't having a great season, but they are a different beast at home. And yeah, I think Liverpool have set such crazy high standards that anything but a win feels like a setback. But it's not really. That is not a bad result in the grand scheme of things. No, I think it was, you know, it's a good point to say.

How about Salah? I mean, you've got your book out on Salah now. It's Chase and Salah. And no one can catch him, can they? It's a great book, by the way. Kiddy, he's a buyer. But he's just an outrage, isn't he? He was so good again. I mean...

His impact is... How many games is that on the run now? I've lost track. I mean... Seven... He's equaled his own record for scoring in seven successive Premier League games. And it's not just scoring. It's scoring important goals as well, isn't it? It's defining the outcome of the game. And assisting as well. And assisting. So his form, you know, it goes far as to say I've never seen anything like it. You know, watching Liverpool, is that an exaggeration to say that? You know, he scored big goal after big goal after big goal, contributing...

massively towards the run that Liverpool are on. It needed... I felt after the first half, it really needed somebody to step forward and take the game by the throat. And I think between him and the Diaz substitution made a big difference as well because Liverpool had threats on both sides of the pitch suddenly. And he could have had a hat-trick, of course. He could have had a hat-trick. Very unlucky to hit the bar. It was a sensational performance and...

I would love to know what the controlling powers at Liverpool made of it all because it really, it should make them wake up and realise, you know, just how influential he is. He delivers in big moments and without him yesterday, I'm pretty certain Liverpool would have lost the game. Yeah, someone said to me during the week, oh, you know, Liverpool can't afford to pay the sort of money that Real Madrid and Manchester City and Manchester United pay.

And I'm a bit like, well, it's not like he's not producing. And it's not like it's not all bonus releases. You know, well, much of it's bonus releases. He's definitely in the top three players in the world at the moment.

Well, who are the other two? Who will be the other two players? Well, I don't know, but I'm being generous to the rest of the world, aren't I? At the moment, there's no one, you know, it'd have to be a pretty dramatic fall, you know, to become one of the, you know, outside the top 50 to justify him

Not getting a new contract. I don't know if there's any actual logic in that. How do you define a top 50? There's no such thing, is there? But he is impacting matches in a positive way over and over and over again. Liverpool, he's been key to Liverpool's success all season long. I would argue his game is more rounded than it's ever been. He's finding ways to

to influence the game, bringing other teammates into it. It's not about pace. It's about movement and guile and seeing the space and understanding the position. All those sorts of things. You know, it doesn't seem to me he's going to have like a Torres-like drop-off where his body's just going to totally...

and also you let him down unless he gets one catastrophic injury, which anybody could get at any time anyway. So why would you, you could sign a player who replaces him and he gets a bad injury. It's just bad luck. It doesn't seem like his body is going to let him down at any point soon. His brain certainly isn't letting him down. He seems to be thinking quicker than ever. You know, unfortunately, there's no data metric for

common sense on a football pitch and he's got plenty of that or common sense in the data analysis room but no we'll leave that one alone James you know talking about brain on the pitch using your brain on the pitch oh Kelleher what happened to his brain

Yeah, I felt really sorry for him because, you know, he has been so good, hasn't he? Made so many important saves, commanded his box so well. It was funny, wasn't it? Because there was, wasn't there one in a game a few weeks back? Was it Villa at home where it was a similar kind of deep cross situation?

And I think, again, there were parallels with that in terms of Hakan Buhu was sliding in at the back for Villa and wasn't able to convert on that occasion. And of course, you know, you've got to give Shah some credit for the fact that he did, you know, he never gave up getting on the end of that and did well to divert it in from such a tight angle. But yeah, it's...

it's just a tough one to take in there. I think it would have been, it would have been easier to have conceded late on where you've been, you know, carved apart by a bit of individual brilliance and, and you think, well, there's not too much you could do about that, but it was so avoidable, wasn't it? You know, just a free kick into the box. It was,

He obviously thought it was drifting out of play. He kind of took his hands away, didn't he? He didn't even attempt. It wasn't like he kind of clawed at it and just didn't get enough on it. He didn't even try to get it in the end. A misjudgment, costly, but we shouldn't forget what he has done for this team over the last few months in the absence of Alisson. And he's still massively in credit.

Well, yeah, yeah. And he got caught under the ball a bit, you know. I saw people saying he should have punched it, but it didn't look near enough to punch it, say. Yeah, I just think, I mean, I am not a goalkeeping expert and I don't know what goes through the minds of goalkeepers having never been one. But it would make sense to me that you do not come off your line if you don't think you're going to get it. So he must have at some point, at a point of delivery, thought, I can get to this.

Because if you come for it and you don't get it, there is a risk that somebody's running in behind you. You know, because as a goalkeeper, as I imagine as that cross is coming in, you are watching the flight of the ball. You can't afford to take your eye off it because if you do, you know, you're potentially going to miss it. So he obviously hasn't seen the guy running in behind him. And as James says, I thought it was a fantastic finish. But it is possible that it's a fantastic finish, but also quite frustratingly a goalkeeping error.

Yeah, definitely. And does this endorse what Slott said, James? Because a lot of people, you know, myself included, were a bit like, when he said Allison comes back immediately, I was, well, you know, Keller has done so well, doesn't he deserve his chance? But I don't think Allison would have made a similar mistake.

No, no, I think he does give you that bit of extra physicality, Alison, doesn't he? I think there's lots of areas of Kelleher's game which are as good...

as that as as alison certainly certainly with the ball at his feet and and distribution wise but i think you're right i think he does have that kind of extra presence as a goalkeeper doesn't he alison so yeah i mean i mean i think it would be very unfair to take the kind of thing well keller has made one mistake right is that that now is the time to make the change i mean i think we're still waiting for for alison to to actually be available for selection you know basically slot

Slott said earlier on in the week that he needed more training time before they thought he was ready. And Slott actually said, I don't know whether he was being deliberately vague, but he said, I can tell you that by the end of December, you'll see Alisson back in goal for Liverpool. Now, of course, Liverpool have still got another seven games this month. So yeah, whether the derby on Saturday will come too soon for him, you'd imagine so unless Slott does decide that

that he wants to rush him back? Because the way he was talking earlier on in the week, he was still a bit of a distance away. One thing I will say in defence of Quivine Kelleher, he made a very, very important save in the first half from Anthony Gordon, which I think would have put Newcastle 2-0 up. It was a very Alison Becker-like save. I think Gordon tried to sort of put it through his legs. That was from Gomez's mistake, wasn't it? From Gomez's mistake. That was a huge save in the context of the game because if Liverpool go 2-0 down,

It is a long way back, particularly at St. James' Park. So I think it was a mistake, yes. But Alisson Becker has made some mistakes before. They tend not to be hugely costly. On this occasion, it's the first mistake I think that Quivine Callagher has made that has actually cost Liverpool points. But he did make a save earlier on in the game, which...

which put them in contention for points, shall we say? Well, I mean, I think, as James said, he's got enough credit in the bank and he'll be superb when he gets us an unsatty and we'll come away with a clean sheet.

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A second part of the week means another chance to talk about the contracts. You know, because we never talk about the contracts. They haven't been a subject that's come up very often. Well, James, what do you make of the Athletics' David Ornstein saying that they're putting off at a Virgil van Dijk and not into greed? Let's quote David. It fell short of his expectations, that's van Dijk. And so far, there's been no breakthrough on the value or length of an extension. I'm just...

There are no words. Don't we need words on a podcast? No, there's nothing like a bit of dead air to really get the listener involved in podcasts and radio. I think that's really important. I was speaking figuratively. Oh, I see, I see. Yeah, I thought...

It was completely kind of, I wasn't surprised at all by David Ormstein's update because, you know, I think that's where we kind of expected things to be at with Van Dijk. I think, you know, clearly if it was more advanced, I think there would have been much more positive noises prior to this point. And also, I think if he hadn't had an offer, then...

I think we probably would have seen a different approach maybe from his camp, but all the noises seem to have been, and certainly from Van Dijk when he has spoken about his future, is he's very relaxed about things. He's said on numerous occasions how much he loves being Liverpool captain. He wants to stay, and it's not something that's concerning him. Of course, come January 1st, he could potentially leave.

sign a pre-contract with a club overseas, but I don't think he sees that date as some kind of dramatic cut-off. And yeah, I think, to be honest, it's just the process, isn't it? In terms of, you know, you make an offer, it would be very surprising if you would accept the first offer that comes your way. And then clearly there's some negotiating and haggling to be done over...

you know, the basic terms, the bonus structure, and then also the length of the deal regarding Van Dijk. But yeah, I'm still confident they have. I know there was some rumors during the rounds, wasn't there, last week, that it was already a done deal and it was going to get announced on Friday. You know, that was...

That was, of course, you know, people were putting two and two together and getting 17 after Slott decided to do his press conference on Thursday rather than Friday. And people thought that had almost cleared the decks for a big Friday announcement when the reality was Slott just had lots of family over from Holland and wanted to spend a few hours with them on Friday morning. So, yeah, I don't think there was anything too alarming in that update from David.

But it's interesting, obviously, the fact that the contrast to the fact that he has had an offer where Salah's yet to receive one. Sorry, I mean, I'm just checking the calendar and it appears to be the 5th of December. And why are we talking about negotiations in December? Shouldn't this have been, well, we've said it before, they should have been sorted out a long time ago. And the longer it goes on, it always strikes me the less likely people are to sign.

Well, I think two months ago or so, we did a podcast and I recall, certainly, I think the three of us were all in agreement that if it gets to December, it's time to worry. Now, I think, obviously, the development that Virgil van Dijk has been given a contract and...

Quite obviously, after the report earlier this week that Salah hasn't been, that would explain the difference in approach between the two parties. There's been some analysis on TV about why one is being more vocal than the other. Well, that would explain that, I guess. And I have always been relatively confident that they'll find a way with Van Dijk.

I think he'd be given up an awful lot to leave Liverpool, given that he is the captain as well. And he's not long had that role. But still a long, long way with Salah. Certainly as of Monday, Tuesday anyway. I've said before, things can change very quickly. When he signed his last contract, there was a three-week period from going from where Rami Abbas and Salah were talking about potentially leaving to actually signing the contract. Albeit the difference was that time,

There had been a lot more negotiation and conversation with the club and albeit it was different people at that time. So it feels to me like Liverpool and Salah are further back in that conversation and there's less time to sort it out.

So it is a concern. And from January the 1st, Mohamed Salah and his representative are free to go and speak to whoever they want and sign a deal whenever they want, which commits his future elsewhere. So,

I would be very concerned if they don't sort something out by the end of the year. Yeah, definitely, definitely. And the other thing, James, and I don't want to spend too long on this, but there's a complete knot of radio silence on Trent. We're talking about Virgil, we're talking about Salah, we're, you know, Alexander-Arnold, oh no, nothing, nothing.

Yeah, I think Trent certainly hasn't spoken publicly about his situation, I think, since the back end of September. And, you know, I was part of the group who did that chat with him in the mix zone and he said,

He was adamant then that he wanted this process to be carried out privately and that he didn't want the kind of fanfare around it. But of course, the closer and closer we get

to the turn of the year, you know, the noise, the noise is going to grow louder and louder. I think, I think in a way it probably suits him the fact that, you know, Salah coming out publicly in the way he did and, and all the noise around Salah because of, you know, linked to the fact that Salah is, you know, in such incredible form at the minute, you know, what is it? 15 goals, 12 assists.

already, you know, what we're on the first week in December is absolutely mind-boggling. So I think all of that has kind of taken the heat off Trent a little bit, really, in terms of that the focus has been elsewhere. But

Again, when he came off the bench at St. James' Park, he again underlined what a massive difference he makes to this Liverpool team. Salah quite rightly grabbed the headlines, two goals and an assist, but Trent helped himself to two assists for Salah's goals and just gave Liverpool such a huge injection of quality. And of course,

The fact that there's been no news on that, you know, is concerning in itself because, you know, out of the three, I've always thought Van Dijk was the most likely to stay. I still believe that. But yeah, certainly every week that ticks by without news on Trent means that the chances of him staying are reduced.

On Saturday, it's the last visit to Goodison Park. And that was the ground I probably have been to most. Because when I was young, football was cheap. And before I started going to Liverpool away games, I'd go to Everton the other week. Never wanted them to win. I always took great pleasure in them. Their misfortune, but you know. So we're off to Goodison. And...

I was thinking about some of my favourite games there and everyone talks about, you know, the 5-0 Rush, Ian Rush game and, you know, when he scored four. But I think my favourite game was in 1985, 1986 when, you know, the two best teams in Europe and,

We scored after, what, 27 seconds and went 3-0 up and Everton come back after half-time. It was 3-2. Dalglish missed two sitters in the hammer and down rain. And it was just one of the most frantic atmospheres I've ever been in. So that was my favourite memory there. What's your favourite game there, Si?

You know what? I love Goodison Park. I do. I think, aside from Anfield, my favourite stadium and I will miss it. When it's at its best and it's as gnarly, you know, it can be as gnarly as Anfield can be depending on what is happening on the pitch.

perhaps even more so at times. And to answer your question, I mean, the great thing about the derby between Liverpool and Everton is it serves up all kinds of games, I think. You know, we've seen very cagey games where it's nervous and the thrill of a victory is marked up because of those nerves. Like I think most recently, I suppose, the Mané derby where it was an awful game of football. You know, two teams...

sort of just incapable of keeping the ball just before Christmas. And then Mane pops up deep, deep, deep into injury time. That was a moment when the boards went up and at six minutes, Goodison groaned. The groan. And it was brilliant. The groan, yeah. Well, I remember that day because I was working for the Independents at the time. I'd been Matroporth and I was ready to press send. And as soon as...

The boards went up and the groan went up. Whoever it was sitting next to me, I said, this is enough time for Liverpool to score here because you could tell the Abbotonians did not want... It may have been you, Tony. And fair enough, Liverpool scored and it was magical. So a great way to win. You know, there's been some big victories for Liverpool more recently, you know, 4-1 victory, which I spent that game in the Gladys Street, which was...

You know, I felt very lucky to be in the gladiator's shoes. Did you have a disguise on? Yes, I was heavily disguised. I had a snood on and a hat. And I remember the guy who was standing next to me was confused as to why I was so heavily covered up. I saw quite a few familiar faces as I was going around.

through the air, the turnstile and into the bowels of the stands. And you know, when people just catch you around, like, what are you doing here? And I was like, just scuttling away as fast as I could. In fairness, a couple of my mates, even with Liverpool,

In control at half-time, came over and had a pint at half-time. They weren't there at the end, by the way, they'd gone. And so there's that. And then there's all sorts of other games as well. You know, mad 3-3s as they were under, was it the Brendan Rodgers year when he nearly won the league? Late equalisers. All I will say is there is no better place to score a last-minute winner. No, there isn't. James, your favourite game there?

Ooh, a few. Simon mentioned it then. I absolutely loved, not so much the game, but the moment of Sadio Mane's late winner there just before Christmas. What was that? Was that 2016? Yeah.

yeah, just, just as Simon said, because it doesn't, it's not about winning the Derby isn't about the quality of the performance or, or anything like that. It's about moments. They're the ones that you cherish. And that, that one, the fact that, you know, didn't look to be any danger at all when Sturridge cuts inside onto his left foot, you know,

real bobbling, nothing of a shot really. That's something I think it was Joe Robles was in goal that night for Everton, bounces back off the post and then just, just the scenes really. You remember, I always think of that, that image of Dane and Lovren going to embrace Marnie, but his arms outstretched and Lovren just emerging from this cloud of white smoke from the flares that had been, been lobbed down from the, the away end. And,

The 4-1 was a special one, just because it's been quite a rarity in this era to absolutely demolish Everton on their own patch. I was looking before, at the last 10 meetings, seven draws, two wins for Liverpool, and then that miserable defeat back in April when, of course, Everton bullied them. But yeah, going back further, I guess another one that

that I loved was that one when Gerrard smashed that one in, in front of the Gladys street. And then, uh, did that iconic celebration running pretty much all the way down the, uh, the Bullens road, uh,

I think, what was that? 2001, I think that was. Just the technique and the power and precision of that finish was sensational. And there was that Dirk Kout late winner as well, wasn't there, from the penalty spot, which I know absolutely meant the world to Dirk Kout because you know that if you deliver in a big moment like that in a derby, then the fans will never, ever forget it. James?

How are they going to line up on Saturday? I think it's going to be intriguing to see what slot does because as I touched on at the start, I thought fatigue was definitely evident in certain elements of that performance at St. James'. I thought for the first time this season, Ryan Gravenberg looked like someone who was feeling the strain. I thought it was telling the fact that he played the full 90 in every Premier League game and every Champions League game prior to Wednesday night.

before getting subbed off. So that is a little bit of a worry for me because the derby, especially what's likely to be the last derby at Goodison with Everton's physicality, you don't want someone who's not absolutely bang on it physically. I wonder whether...

Slott might think about potentially playing with Taro Endo or whether he might think, well, I'll hold Endo back for Girona away on Tuesday night. I think Endo's nailed on to start at least one of those two. Losing McAllister to that suspension is a blow. You'd have thought Zabozlai and Curtis Jones would fill the other two spots in midfield. And then top end of the pitch worries me a little bit. I thought Darwin Nunes struggled well.

struggled against Newcastle. I think because Salah is registering such crazy numbers, it's gone under the radar a bit that Nuno has only scored one in his last nine appearances.

you know, waiting for when Jota's going to be back in contention. He can't be far off, but that can't come soon enough. Of course, Chiesa got an hour under his belt for the under 21s on Wednesday night. But again, you know, probably the best he could hope for is bench duty. So he's a little bit limited what he can do. Then, of course, defensively with no Canarte, no Bradley and no Simakas, you know, you'd have, he obviously is, he wants to avoid overburden in Trent with too many minutes after his hamstring issues. And,

But you'd have thought Trent must be nailed on to start right back. And then he'd probably persevere with Gomez alongside Van Dijk. So are you going to take up your regular spot in the street ends? A season ticket? I wish I could. I've put the feelers out with a few friends who might be able to furnish me. But nothing's come back yet. It's always a light one with the Goodison's army, particularly if you're trying to get in the...

well not in the away end put it that way so I'm reasonably confident of one coming through I hope it does because as I say despite you know all the rivalry and all that it's just a stage in that I really really enjoy watching football matches so enjoyed even more especially if Liverpool get the right results which they need of course

They certainly do. And, you know, for me, it's almost, you know, you talk about the team and the line-up, James, but with derbies, it's about mentality. I know that, like, people often say, and we ridicule pundits who say,

He wanted it more. They wanted it more. But with Derby, there's an element of that, isn't there? You can't deny it. 100%. Yeah, yeah. It might upset some of the tactical geeks. But yeah, I mean, funny enough,

Van Dijk spoke about it when he stopped to speak to us after the game at Newcastle. He actually said himself, because I asked him about what was missing in the first half, and he said, you can talk about tactics all you like, but he said, when you lose battles all over the pitch like we did, and you get out-muscled and out-fought, he said, you make it incredibly difficult for yourself. And he said...

you know, we know that we cannot allow that same thing to happen at Goodison because that is Everton's identity under Dyche, isn't it? They will be direct. They will ask a lot of questions physically of Liverpool and they will want to turn it into a bit of a slog. If Liverpool will have the greater quality, of course they will because of the players they've got. But we saw in April what happened. You know, you think, you

Obviously, Canarte won't be there on Saturday because of the injury and he was transformed in the early months of this season. But go back to April and he got bullied that night by Calvert-Lewin. Liverpool didn't stand up well enough from set pieces. So you're right, for me, that is an absolutely crucial element of the weekend because if you match Everton's physicality and their combative nature, then...

Liverpool will win the game because the quality will tell. But the concern is that there were a few creaks in that performance at St James'. And of course, Everton had the lift of hammering a very poor Wolves team on the same night. So, Dogs of War Part 2, will we prevail? I'd always back Liverpool in the derby. I agree with James. I think a big result for Everton beating Wolves because it'll give them confidence. Had they not won that game,

I can imagine there'd be a sense of dread amongst Evertonians going to the Goodison Park on Saturday. But having won that game, it'll give them a bit more belief, obviously with Liverpool dropping points in the way that they did, with a little bit of fatigue setting in. They'll be a bit more confident than they were. So nevertheless, I would always back Liverpool in a derby. Let's say 2-1 to Liverpool. James, your prediction?

2-0 Liverpool. 2-0, and I'm saying 3-0 because Everton aren't very good, and Liverpool are. So now we move on to the quiz. I've been so excited about this. I was awake all night quivering with anticipation about it. So let's start.

James, how many goals have Liverpool scored in the last 10 visits to Goodison Park? 8, 9 or 10? Ooh, well, it's been 5-0-0s. I'm going to go 8. 8. And James has 1-0 up. Remarkable scenes. Yeah, so who scored the most goals for Liverpool at Goodison Park in the Premier League era? Salah, Suarez, Kaut or Michael Owen?

There's that silence. There's that silence. That's so beloved. I don't know. I'm absolutely rubbish with sort of multiple choice things like this. So I'm just going to say Michael Owen. And you're right, Michael Owen. He's pulled that one out. There's only one reason why you put Michael Owen on there, isn't there, to be fair? Yeah. So lucky. Yeah, it's it. In off the post. James. 23 red cards have been given in Merseyside derbies in the Premier League era. How many have been shown at Gunnarsson?

11, 12 or 13? Oh, that is tricky. 11, 12 or 13? I'm going to go 12. 12? Oh, remarkably, he's right. And I'll tell you what, you can have a bonus point here, I think, if you can tell me how many for Liverpool. I'm going to go...

8 for Everton. Now, I'll throw that bonus point to you, Si. 7 for Everton. Nah, neither is he, a pair of useless plonkers. No, I didn't know either. It's 10 for Everton and 2 for Liverpool. Robbie Fowler and Igor Biscan. Now, there's a name to conjure with. Si, this is to level it up. How many of Liverpool's 8 managers in the Premier League era won on their first visit to Goodison? 1, 2 or 3?

That's a good question. That is a good question. I don't think many of you know. You can do it, Sy. One. Dangerous for you that, Sy. No, unfortunately it's two, Sy. Oh, is it? It's Klopp and Dalgleish in the second spell. So, you know, it's... My answer was going to be Dalgleish.

of course it was Klopp yeah yeah because Klopp Klopp got the job just after the Everton derby didn't he yeah I was trying to think that season he didn't win okay fair enough so does that mean what the Sadio one was Klopp's first Everton derby yeah right James this is it this for the game this for the year this for everything it's all on the line you can do it it's a complete football Kenny Dalglish's final game of his first tenure as Liverpool manager was at Goodison Park in February 1991

The game there ends up 4-4. Who scored Liverpool's last goal? John Burns. John Burns! And it's over. It's over. James wins. James is the champion of 2024. Walk on quiz in these remarkable scenes.

Simon Hughes has walked off the pitch, dejected, tears running down his face. His beard is soaking. You should see him. Oh, your heart would break if you could see Si at the moment. Red?

James, it's not a surprise that James proves himself as a nerd, is it, to be fair? No, no, no. I just want to thank the fans because they've been with me every step of the way. It's not been easy this season, but it just makes all the hard work worthwhile. Yeah, and you know, what can we say? It's been so exciting, hasn't it? Every time we see a quiz, we think to ourselves, yes, this is going to be top class podcasting. This will win us an award.

So that's it for Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon for joining me and you for listening. James will be at the match on Saturday reacting to the derby and we'll be back with your next Walk On next Wednesday after the visit to Girona. We'll catch you then.