How the January transfer window approach could shape Liverpool's title challenge
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Getting back on the saddle isn't always comfortable. Good news is Sierra has massage guns. And chafe wipes too. Discover top brands at unexpectedly low prices. Sierra, let's get moving. The Athletic FC Podcast Network. All right, Reds, Tony Evans here with Walk On, your Liverpool podcast from the Athletic. I'm here with James Pearce and Simon Hughes.

Liverpool are returning and the games are coming thick and fast. With Man City and Real Madrid on the horizon at home and in Europe, there's plenty for us to get stuck into with the action restarting down at Southampton on Sunday. But we'll start with those three words...

Simon Slacker Hughes, the man who's never prepared, the man who flies in the face of popular demand because the world, the audience, want his three words and he says no. Tony, I've always delivered three words despite my reluctance. Eventually, eventually. What does that say? So I'm going to say this week, Liverpool can... Oh no, it's four words, isn't it? LAUGHTER

I bet it's four words I'll admit anyway I was just going to say Liverpool can do it and by do it I mean I think they can go all the way this year but that is four words so it doesn't count for anything does it oh no

Simon, four words use. Makes his pronouncement. James, you've probably got three because you're always prepared. I'm going with proper football back. I couldn't agree more. And this has been a particularly grim international break, hasn't it? I mean, I don't know what you two think, but it has. I mean, you know, the biggest excitement is Scotland avoids relegation by going into a relegation playoff in March. Yes.

Tony, I've got to say, if you've been paying attention to the AFCON qualifying. Now, I'm at AFCON Converse these days, as a lot of my friends will testify. I talk about African international football a lot. There's interesting things happening in the qualifiers for AFCON. Do tell us all about it, Si. Not just about Europe. What's even happening? Well, there's a few teams that have qualified and a few teams that haven't.

That sounds absolutely fascinating. Okay, yes. So the team that hasn't qualified, I'm sure you'll be interested to know, is Ghana, who always qualify for AFCON and are considered one of the continent's leading nations. They have failed to qualify after many years of failure.

So they haven't. Meanwhile, Sudan have qualified a team that's in the middle of a civil war, which is incredible. So for a country that doesn't qualify for international tournaments to qualify in that context is an incredible achievement. Yeah, I've got to say, one of the, probably the most...

fascinating experiences of my career was to go to an Africa Cup and Nations final and, you know, it was brilliant. But let's see what you, the listener, is saying for the three words. Mano Shinoi, Curtis Jones Swagger. Well, that's true. Jones has enlivened the international break. Michael Hubray, I

Adios, international break. I'm Michael, I'm with you. Stephen Buchanan, to fine and fix your periods. Yes, now there it is, throwing it forward. And Gary Simpson simply says, real football back. To join our community of listeners on Facebook, just search Walk On Podcast and join the group. Well, James, we return to Premier League action this weekend. I'm five points clear.

Five points clear at the end of November. Well, I must say, I didn't envisage this, but it does bring up a question. Are Arne Slott's Liverpool favourites for the title?

That's only 11 games, isn't it? Yeah, I think it's too soon. I find it all a bit tedious, the kind of like, who is the favourites now and all the rest of it, as if it doesn't really matter, does it? But I think common sense tells you that what City have done in the modern era, especially, you know, we've seen it before where they've had wobbles in the autumn and then produced ridiculous winning runs. And yes,

you know, no Rodri is a big thing there. And I think not just Rodri's absence, but there's also signs that, you know, they're also, you know, I'd say you've got some players that are beyond their best and others that are injury prone as well, which gives you hope. But yeah, it's only five points after 11 games. I certainly wouldn't, I wouldn't be going overboard with talking about Liverpool as, as, as,

favourites to go on. I think the great thing that Liverpool are in, which I think is a lovely position, is that no one expected this, did they? So it does feel like a bonus without the pressure and expectation that maybe Klopp's team had to deal with when they were in a similar position in the back end in November. So I think Liverpool just got to embrace it. This is such a crucial run of games coming up.

And yes, Southampton away, you'd imagine, should be relatively straightforward. But then what is it? Real Madrid, Man City, Newcastle away, Everton away. I think there's some pretty decent tests there before we get too carried away. Yes. And I'm sure you're going to say you've booked the open top bus. I think Liverpool are contenders. Definitely this season. I mean, I...

What has undermined Liverpool over the previous seasons when they've either fallen short or certainly, at least in one case, fallen out of the Champions League is the injury record. This season, Liverpool largely, they have had injuries obviously to the goalkeeper and one or two other positions.

But it hasn't affected them like it has Manchester City in terms of a really key player, you know, out for a very long period of time. Plus niggling injuries to other players and then Arsenal obviously getting injuries as well. So I think if Liverpool can remain largely injury free throughout the campaign, they have a chance. They're performing very well. They look like a team that knows what it's doing. I suppose what hasn't been tested, two things that haven't been tested are slots decisions when the pressure is really on.

And equally how he deals with, I suppose, a really tough run of fixtures back to back. So we're about to find out, you know, where Liverpool are at, I think. Liverpool come out the other side of the run of fixtures that both of you just mentioned there. I can understand why the conversation will ramp up again about Liverpool being amongst the favourites, certainly, come the end of the season. We seem to be saying almost every week, oh, we're about to find out what they are.

And, yeah, all we're finding is victories, you know. I mean, added to that impressive record, you know, 11 games and lost one for us, which seems like an aberration now. And, obviously, Drew is Arsenal. The four wins in four in the Champions League. And, you know, it's a pretty good selection of teams there, isn't it? Milan, Bologna, Leipzig.

And Leverkusen, you think to yourself, I don't know, right? Two Germans, two Italians. It does feel different, James. We've just alluded to this idea that there's not as much pressure, perhaps, on slotters. It felt like on Klopp.

Michael Cox did a piece on The Athletic last week, which was about how managers' first season in the Premier League can often be the best chance to win it. Five of the 11 different managers to win the Premier League did it in the first full season in charge. So does that raise our expectations a bit too much? I don't know about raising their expectations. I think it just shows that it's not unprecedented. I was surprised actually when I read that in Michael Cox's piece. But

But then I guess the more you think about it, of course, you're talking about managers that have gone into clubs with, you know, a lot of resources and have either inherited a really good team or have had a

a sizable amount of money to spend to strengthen ahead of their first season in charge. And I guess the other big thing is you have that element of surprise, don't you? That as much as I'm sure managers and analysts at other clubs will, especially in the early part of the season when they didn't really have much of a body of work of slots Liverpool to analyse, they would have looked at final matches from last season and stuff. But I still think it does give you that element of surprise

I've been able to catch opponents unaware when they've not come up against you previously and they don't know how you're going to try and tweak things tactically. The setup...

in all areas of the pitch. So I think that kind of plays into Liverpool's hands a little bit. And of course, as we've talked about previously, the fact that slot did inherit such a talented group of players who, although for the staff, this is all new and for slot, it's new in terms of being the Premier League and being Liverpool. But we've

But with the exception of Chiesa, who of course has barely kicked a ball so far this season, it's the same group that came close last season. And Liverpool were absolutely banging it, weren't they, till early April. It's not as if this is uncharted territory anymore.

And for a lot of those guys, they will have benefited, I think, loads from the experiences of last season, good and bad, especially in terms of the way things fell away and how you try and guard against that happening. Because I think having been through that makes you better prepared this time around.

Yes, we're players, and you've seen a lot of it over the years, especially those who are new to the game in the Premier League. They have a brilliant start the first half of the season when no one's played against them, no one's seen them before. And then the second half, they drop off because the opposition have seen you once, they know what you're doing.

Have we seen enough of slot in the first part of the season so that after Christmas, New Year, when teams play them again,

opposing managers will go, all right, we know what this fellow's going to do. Because I don't feel we have. I think in-game, in-games he's made changes to the team, which at certain points has affected the flow of the game and the possibility of scoring goals. So it's not like Arnott Slott just sets up a team and that's it for the game, regardless of what's going on and how the other team approaches it. I've seen enough in-game management, if you like, from him to suggest that

He is capable of making decisions that can affect the way a stadium feels, for example. So that encourages me.

Obviously, it's clear that he wants to play a certain way. The challenge will come when they are playing a big team, say, I mean, obviously it happened against Nottingham Forest where they lost at home. But in a big game when it's maybe going against Liverpool, we haven't quite seen Liverpool's response to that, maybe falling behind or something. Maybe Chelsea was a little example of it where they obviously weren't at their best. Chelsea scored an equaliser, but then Liverpool responded pretty quickly. He didn't actually have to change anything at all.

So I suppose what you're looking for is variety in his decision making and that's what always separates the good managers from the very good ones. So I've seen enough to suggest that he's got it in him to spot what's going wrong in games and make changes that can really affect things. So yeah, I mean, I can understand the question and I can understand maybe some reservations, but I just don't think he has one way of playing or...

one way of a go-to change that he makes if you like he's shown enough that you know he can bring Gakpo on and it makes it makes a difference he can bring a variety of other sorts of midfield players on I think Curtis Jones' form is really encouraging for Liverpool at the moment because

It puts pressure on that area of the pitch, which arguably, I know there's a lot of conversation around Zobber Sly and I can understand it, but I think having those four players there is really healthy for Liverpool. I would like to see them try and add to the squad in January, personally, and just give them that edge. But talking about Liverpool's chances this season overall, you know, sometimes the opportunities will present itself and you've got to try and take it. It reminds me a little bit of the 2013-14 season. I know it's

Yeah, Arnaud Schlott's first season and Brendan Rodgers' second season. Don't say that. I can understand why you... I don't want to say... Well, you do belittle Brendan Rodgers a little bit, Tony, but that's fine. That's fine if you want to do that. I'm not contesting why you do. I will never forgive what happened against Chelsea. Do you know what?

A midfielder has the right to slip in that position. He has the right to, but the centre-halves don't have a right to be in front of him. Well, this is another debate entirely, but the point that I'm making is, Tony, is that it reminds me a little bit of that where maybe some of the other teams have dropped off a little bit that you might have not expected. And Liverpool, obviously, that season were very difficult to stop once they had that momentum. And Liverpool, throughout the club's history, has proven that if a belief sets in

it can be very hard for the other teams to stop them. And I think if Liverpool, again, come out the other side this period of tough fixtures, the belief will be there and it's going to be very difficult for all the teams to stop them. And Liverpool have then got to think about how they can make the most out of that position by maybe attracting players that might, you know, a lot of it is down to who's available. But if they were a little bit bold in the transfer market and, you know, think back about that season that I mentioned under Brendan Rodgers,

2013-14 they wanted to sign players in that January transfer window and they didn't get them over the line you do wonder whether that to what extent did that cost them that's very difficult to be definitive well Si you've just mentioned the fact that you think Liverpool should strengthen in January you know we're told all the time that the winter window has no value

but where about do you think we should strengthen? I still think they need another option in midfield I think playing three midfields if you've got four who could arguably start and then the drop off from there on is it's not that the rest of the players are rubbish it's just that I think that the other players aren't of that level so if they do happen to get an injury in that area at some point it's going to put pressure on the team so that's an area that I'd like to see I'm not saying it's going to happen or that that's in their thinking but that's what I think possibly needs to happen

Also, my concern is Diogo Jota's injury record. I said at the start of the season, I think if he plays the whole season, could finish top scorer and could make a massive difference if he's not available. That's where they might fall short, potentially. So they're the two areas in attacking the midfield. You know, I think they're pretty short at the back at the moment. That might change over the summer with departures and stuff like that.

But it tends to be, you know, the sort of the top end of the pitch that makes the difference, you know, if you're going for the title. I'm just not quite convinced he's got quite enough up at the top end. But the encouraging thing is, Tony, you talk about slots rolling and all this, is that, you know, he's made changes in some games playing. Who'd have thought Diaz playing centre forward would yield a hat-trick? Whether it works week in, week out, I'm not sure, but he's shown that.

you know, already there's several players in the Liverpool team based on the performances last season whose performances have skyrocketed. I think that's the most encouraging thing, you know, if they can maintain that, you know, if Gakpo can carry on playing the way he is,

That puts pressure on Diaz. Diaz can perform as he has through the centre, albeit in one game, against top-quality opposition. That's a good thing for Liverpool. Might save FSG a few quid. I agree with you on needing an extra midfielder. I think as good as Gravenberg has been, you do think, how would slot handle being without him for, say, he picked up a bad hamstring injury and was out for two or three months?

I don't think he would trust Endo to fill that void, which essentially you do need a second holder midfielder, don't you, as an option. I think he would probably go McAllister and Curtis Jones as the two. And then you put Zabozlai or Harvey Elliott as the one a bit more advanced. So,

So yeah, I do think, you know, I did a mailbag last week before I went off for a bit of time and the people I spoke to said that there was a feeling that the kind of Gravenberg's impact had been such this season that it was no longer looked as a priority where obviously it was in the summer when they tried and failed to get Zubermendi. So it's going to be an interesting one to see whether they do reassess that, especially with so many games coming up. Well, that brings up the question, James. It

Have you heard any whispers about who might be in line for a bid in the January window?

No, all quiet at the moment. No, no. You know, there's been a lot of talk about Tumani, hasn't there, at Real Madrid. Talk about them potentially looking to move him on. And I think mainly because obviously we know Liverpool was so keen a couple of years ago when he went from Monaco to Real Madrid that those links have surfaced. But I've been told at the minute there's nothing concrete in that. I think a lot will depend on how Liverpool gets through this period up to January because...

you know, slot has always talked about wanting two players for every position and, you know, effectively he's, he's got that and reinforcements are on the way, aren't they? With, you know, Alison's not far off. Jota should be back, you know, slots that he expected Jota back a week after this break. You've got Harvey Elliott was stepping up with the 21s last week with a view to joining the seniors later on this week. You know, we know that Trent's ingenuity,

was only a minor one and obviously a race against time for him for the weekend so at the minute though there's no obvious signs of Liverpool preparing to get the checkbook out in January but I think also we've seen for

from recent years that you know they are opportunists in terms of assessing what is out there to be done and if they think there's a deal that makes sense for the longer term then they'll go and do it you know we saw that with Gagpo that came from left field a little bit obviously PSV needed the money and there was a deal there that could be done quite straightforward you think of the year previously with Diaz when he was looked upon one for the following summer yet you know Tottenham

were in for him and again Porto I think at the time Porto needed an urgent injection of cash to pay UEFA I think it was at the time so and so suddenly Liverpool had to move really fast to get that one done so so yeah I wouldn't rule anything out in January but

at the minute there's no clear signs of them preparing to do business and just following up on what Si said about 2013-14 I think he's right in that sometimes you have all these grand plans and you think well year 1, year 2, year 3 or whatever what's realistic but

But suddenly, sometimes out of nowhere, an opportunity presents itself that you've really got to do everything you can to take advantage of. And that was the case in 13-14, wasn't it? When common sense told you that Liverpool team shouldn't be anywhere near winning the league. And in a way, you think, well, with all the changes at Liverpool last summer, should they really be winning the league in slots first season? But...

with other clubs having issues, you've got to take advantage. And obviously the big difference between now and 2013-14 is that this brand of football is much more sustainable. It was a hell of a journey, wasn't it, in 13-14? But I think back to watching...

What did Liverpool, did Liverpool win 6-3 was it at Cardiff and I think 4-3 against Swansea and that was, you know, it was riding by the seat of your pants stuff and what they conceded 50 odd league goals that season. This is much, much calmer, much greater control and more measured which I think gives you the hope that it's a lot more sustainable. One thing I'd just like to add to that is I always think some things don't change and it is a saying in football but

Ideally, you want to be recruiting from a position of strength, not weakness. Liverpool is certainly the top of the Premier League at the moment, the top of the Champions League, top of a 36-team league, so they're not doing too badly, are they? People were looking at it and thinking, I know it's only 11 games in and it's only early on, but it's a good argument for them to have.

behind them and I always think that like one of the most impressive deals that Liverpool have got done over sort of the last six or seven years was the one for Fabinho not everybody was saying we need that player to come and make a difference for us Jordan Henderson had a really good season and

Prior to that, in the Holen role, his performances had sort of quelled the conversation around it. And yet Liverpool went and got it done. There is absolutely no doubt that Fabinho had a big role in what followed, really. He made Liverpool a much, much better team for the next three or four years. And that deal, I suspect, was possible because Liverpool were on the march. They were going through the Champions League. They got to the final. They were clearly making progression in the Premier League.

So my concern is that next season, I'm sure this is obviously in the thoughts of the recruitment, but we still don't know what's going to happen with the three out-of-contract players, which I'm sure we'll end up talking about as we always do. But next summer, they could be on the back foot again when it comes to recruitment because everybody will know what they need.

Now, at this moment in time, they're in a really good position, I would argue. They could maybe potentially afford to attack it a little bit more aggressively. And there's more persuasive arguments trying to sign players in January, potentially, than there might be over the summer when the season's over and people are looking to see how things settle down, either with, obviously, ideally with some of the players who are out of contract signings.

or potentially there is a reality, there is a possibility that none of them are there and then they're definitely on the back foot again, Liverpool. So there's all that to consider, I think, but they're in a really good position at the moment and I think when you're at the top, you attack the market, you don't wait for others to catch up to you. It makes sense to me. It's counterintuitive in many ways because we're told all the time there's no value in January.

But I'm convinced by your argument there, Si. Thank you, Sonny. That's the first time you've ever said that. No, it's not. No, but it's true. Let's think about it. I know people say, well, January, there's no value to it. I would argue the opposite starts from when Luis Suarez came in January. Liverpool made a huge amount of money. You're just talking financially. You know, I know Liverpool were sort of

They were selling Fernando Torres, but they were actually signing Suarez to play with Torres. So he was coming whether Torres stayed or went. You know, it turns out to be a goal scorer for Liverpool. Liverpool had some of his best years and then sold him on for profit. James has mentioned Gakpo. We're hoping, you know, his promise this season, I think he's been really promising. We're hoping that this season, you know, he's going to really have a big impact on the outcome. Diaz, I would say, had a really big impact, you know, the season he came in.

maybe he hasn't sustained it since maybe this is his it feels like this is his best season since the season he joined but there's plenty of his

of examples of players that Liverpool have signed in January. I would even argue Martin Skirtle. They signed in January. He had a good spell at Liverpool. People look back and think, oh, Skirtle. They sort of remember the last year, the last 18 months. But for a period, he did all right. They have Daniel Agger, another one. There's probably others that have missed out. But you can't get good value in January. You just...

there's just this perception that it's a bad market to shop in or a difficult, more difficult market to shop in. But as I argue strongly, it's much easier arguments if you're top of the bloody league. Oh, yeah, yeah. Always, always. Anyway, James, Vantide came back early. Not in a sinister day. No, no. I don't think there's anything too much to worry about. I think...

So he captained the Netherlands to, I think, was it 4-0 win over Hungary, which had effectively booked their place in the knockout stages of the Nations League. Nothing really riding on their second game against Bosnia. I've been captivated by the Nations League. I mean, it's been such a fantastic addition to the calendar, hasn't it? We needed some more competitive football added in to try and fill these gaps. So yeah, I think just a bit of common sense, I think, dictating that

rather than putting through another 90 minutes against Bosnia, especially when you look at the schedule that Liverpool have got coming up, getting back to Liverpool. He hadn't trained fully, had he? There's obviously a minor issue there that I'm sure Liverpool will be assessing in the next couple of days. But yeah, I think in general, although I didn't find it particularly captivating myself, I think it was one of those international breaks, certainly so far, when...

I think a lot of Liverpool players who have gone away have had confidence boosts, if you like. You think Conor Bradley scoring for Northern Ireland. I'm sure we'll come up to talk about Ben Doak and his works. Andy Robertson, I think he needed a lift, didn't he? He got back into the Liverpool team just before the break, performed really well against Villa. And then as the...

you know, that great moment for him of scoring the late winner against Poland, you know, Gagpo, as I mentioned before, he scored for the Netherlands. That saved them from relegation and sent them through to a relegation playoff. Exactly. I mean, it doesn't get any better than that, does it? No.

And, well, sorry, we took my Benzo. Very good performance from him, wasn't it? Yeah, very, very impressive. I really like him, the bits that I've seen. He's aggressive, wants to take a player on, which is what I like in a wide player, you know, somebody who's willing to commit himself. But I do think that at this moment in time,

playing out on loan at a decent championship club is a good space for him to be in. Like any young player, the reality is he's probably not at a point where he's ready to play ahead of some of the ones in front of him. Liverpool have got quite a lot of wide players, haven't they? You just mentioned Gapo, Diaz, Salah. You know, they're all doing well this season. So,

the unfortunate reality is it's better for him, I think. I mean, I'm not an expert on the development of players and I know, you know, in the past it's been sort of the view at Liverpool, certainly when Jurgen Klopp was there, that it's better for some of the players to train around the world-class talent. And I can understand that theory because, let's face it, if you're Ben Doak and you're coming up on either wing against one of the great full-backs or defenders that Liverpool have got, you're going to learn a lot in training, aren't you? You're going to learn a lot about the standards.

But equally, I do think you reach a point where you need to get the game time and understand what three points mean to a club and a team and the unique pressures of playing inside the football stadium. And obviously he came up against Gavardial, Croatia, who is a fantastic player. I think he's really, really top class and gave him a really hard time, which...

from Liverpool's perspective is really encouraging because it says that he can play at a higher level than the Championship because he's coming up against one of the best defenders in the Premier League. He's obviously fearless and

I always liked Scottish players for that reason. You know, like you've got to have, they all seem to have something about them when they're playing at a particular level of football. So, you know, fingers crossed he'll continue at Middlesbrough, have an impact there, be one of the best players in the team and then come back into Liverpool bouncing because I know he's not an academy player. He resigned for Liverpool from Celtic.

but it just always feels right when Liverpool have got a few Scottish players who are prepared to have a go, you know what I mean? And I think he seems to me the sort of player that, you know, in front of a live crowd, when he gets the ball, you're expecting something to happen. And I think the Anfield crowd will react positively to him if he can do that in a Liverpool shirt as well as a Scotland shirt. I suppose taking into account Liverpool's

what you've just said there, Si, and James, what you've said, it turns out to be a pretty good international break. Shame I slept through it. You're listening to Walk On, brought to you by The Athletic. Now, for the big event of the week, the one we look forward to, it's Contract Weekly. James. Tumbleweed. Anyway, moving swiftly along. I've got an exclusive for us. Here we go. Go on. No, I don't. Oh. Oh.

Sorry, I mean, we're taking the piss out of ourselves here as journalists. It's our responsibility to find these things out, I guess, isn't it? But it just shows how... Welcome to Walk On, the show where no one knows anything. Yeah, yeah. But, I mean, the prevalent point is, what day is it going to be on now? It's the end of November.

I mean, if things don't start moving pretty quickly... Like six weeks ago. It's a little bit concerning. Like six months ago. I do think it's interesting though, isn't it, that in all three cases...

things have remained very much under wraps in terms of the negotiations. I think it's quite rare. I mean, it's rare in itself to have a situation where your captain, your vice-captain and your top scorer are all out of contracts in six months' time. But we've all seen it happen at other clubs and also at Liverpool previously. I think back to...

you know Raheem Sterling back what probably you know 10 years ago now where and even even Salah to a degree back in 2022 in terms of little details here and there being leaked out and briefings and all that but there's just been absolutely none of that on either side and um I think it probably helps the process I think if you're you know into if you're the the player or the

you know, if you're Richard Hughes, I think it's exactly how you would want it. But of course,

naturally that brings frustration for fans because... Well, as I was about to say, it might help the process, but it doesn't help the state of mind of Liverpool nation. But I think that's why... Liverpool global. That's why it's... And obviously in this day and age, you're not really allowed to say, you know, why don't we just wait and see? Because everyone has to have a clear opinion on absolutely everything immediately. But if you actually take a step back...

When you don't know what someone is demanding and you don't know what's on the table, it's a little bit ridiculous to either say, just sort it out because without the knowledge of what is, of where those, those talks are up to, we don't know whether it's a case of a Liverpool dragging their heels or is a player asking for too much or is he asking for too long given, given his age? Is it a bone? You know, is it something to do with the bonuses, whatever? So,

There's all kinds of nonsense. I've lost count of how many times I've read on some other website that it's either done or they're definitely leaving. It's like, you know, talk about edging your bets so that whichever way it goes, you can go, well, as we exclusively told you four months ago, you know, so no, but as...

As we know, this is a defining period, isn't it? Because as we edge closer to January, I don't think there's certainly not many examples of players re-signing once you get inside that last half a season. I mean, I don't think anyone's naive or stupid enough to think that

January the 1st is some magic date that that is when, for argument's sake, Real Madrid will pick up the phone and ring Trent Alexander-Arnold's people. Of course, that kind of thing, I'm sure with all three of those players, will have been going on for absolutely months and months, sounding them out in terms of their plans. But I think that turn of the year is significant in so much as then it

it would be out in the open, wouldn't it? Any courtship that's gone on privately up to this point would be very public, I think, around that time. It is an interesting thing from Liverpool's perspective in terms of

How they choreograph this as well. Say they clinch one contract straight away. The other people who are negotiating on behalf of the other players are going to want to know what money that play is on because each player, I think we discussed it before, just has an argument to say, well, I should be the highest paid player.

So I think Liverpool, if they were playing it cleverly, they'd be able to get two over the line and announce them, two of them, at least two at the same time and announce them because then that puts pressure on the third player if there's any chance of the third player remaining. Do you know what I mean? So...

the deals are announced where it means that there's no room for renegotiation based on what, if it's one player, I think, I think they have to announce two players, at least two players at the same time. Otherwise they put more pressure on themselves and,

By doing it this way, it potentially puts pressure on the third player to try and agree terms because everybody was saying, why is he not doing it? You know, why is he not doing it? Unless, of course, the third player has already decided to leave. Then they'll have to explain that as well, I think. I mean, it's reaching the point where if either one of these players wants to leave, I'd argue certainly mostly from Trent's perspective,

you know, if he has decided to go, he probably needs to announce that pretty soon. He needs to start managing it. Managing it a bit more because in the gap, it just leaves people to sort of speculate and analyse him more. I mean...

It's quite difficult to engineer a move and come out of it smelling of roses all the time, but there is a way to do it. But I think we're getting to that point where either way, we're going to find out, aren't we? Because the nature of it means... Now there is insight for you. Either way, we're going to find out. Yeah, more astounding insight from me as it comes into my head. But to be honest, and I think this is important,

Because there is a lot of noise, as James said, from some of, frankly, what I'd say is unreliable news sources. He says from his high horse. But the reality is people don't know. Even the best journalists who cover the Premier League, and we have two of them sitting here, don't know. And if anyone tells you they do know, they are blagging you.

So, James, Southampton away, St Mary's. Given the way they've been playing and the way they lose convictions during games...

I'd be relatively confident that we can pick up three points there. Yeah, I think there's always that nagging fear, isn't there, straight after an international break in terms of when you've got players coming back from all over and preparation is different, that you just fear there might be that kind of disjointed nature to it. But...

I think the fact it's Sunday, if you speak to Slott and his staff, they'd say that that is really helpful in terms of having that extra day. And also, Southampton have struggled. There's no question about that. And when I've watched them, they can be really, really attractive on the eye and part of me...

who admires Russell Martin for sticking to his principles and the way that they keep possession but there isn't a huge amount of goal threat in that team and I also think that if Liverpool are at it in terms of their pressing game they could wreak some absolute havoc with the way that Southampton you know can like to play out from the back I mean you'd be you know you'd

surely that Liverpool front three would be licking their lips at the opportunity of those high turnovers. I mean, I don't want to get into too much on this, James. Why do teams like Southampton play up from the back? Why do they do this? Because they've got a philosophy. Philosophy. Philosophy. Can I have my say on this? I...

It's not very often, but I disagree with James on this principle. I don't admire Russell Martin for his principles because it's going to send them down. It's all very well for Russell Martin. He might get a great job, you know, working for another club that thinks, you know what? He's a man who sticks to his principles. He can come and work for us because we're a better team. I'm not saying that he's wrong for believing in those principles, but if it sends Southampton down... I am, I am, I am. He's not doing his job. All I'm saying is I don't think he should change his principles before Sunday. LAUGHTER

That's what I'm saying. He listens. James, it's next Monday. That's absolutely fine. Play out for the back on Sunday. Stick to your guns. I admire you. Fair enough. You know, he's managing his own career. He's not managing the club. That's my argument. Points over principles. Principles get in the bin. Yeah, exactly. Anyway, you know, James was saying that, you know, the...

I think I'm going to quote him. Southampton have got a powder puff attack, I believe are the words I heard. But, you know, we've got a goalkeeper who is among the best in the league and it's not Alison Becher. Yes, yeah, it's a big shout that, Tony. But yeah, I mean, I was discussing this with somebody else earlier on today.

I don't know whether he'd be listening or not, but I was saying that the thing about Quivine Callagher is... Well, if he isn't listening, give me his address. I'll go round his house. You actually know who it is. But anyway, Quivine Callagher, I think, has done a brilliant job for Liverpool over a long period of time now. And he's never cost Liverpool a game, has he really? Think about it. Not in a big game, certainly. He certainly helped Liverpool win some big games and...

you know, help Liverpool win some major trophies, you know, twice. So he's had a real impact on Liverpool in his Liverpool career. And he is, in my mind, the best second choice goalkeeper in the league by a mile. You know, no one is near him. You look at the options that say Arsenal, even Manchester City, Ortega has done all right.

for Manchester City but you know I think he could stick a ball out in goal for Manchester City and you know do alright most of the time so he's coming in he's had a real impact in some big games and big moments and

it's not easy being in his position I think I remember a couple of seasons ago there was a lot of criticism that came his way funnily enough after a four-all draw with Southampton you know the last game of the season when some of the goals that went in were maybe conceded a bit too easily but the game didn't matter and I would argue it's difficult coming in having not played for so long and

and actually picking up the rhythm it is hard, particularly if you're a goalkeeper. So, yeah, I think he's great. And I'm sure we're going to discuss whether he should be playing ahead of Alisson when he comes back. Well, there's a question here from a listener, Van Gauthier. He advocates selling Alisson and keeping Kelleher. And he says there's no real noticeable difference between the two.

Keller is six years younger and not as injury prone, and you could probably pay him a lot less. Oh, you know what, Vane? Let's move you into that recruitment department, you harsh, harsh man. James, that's going a bit far, isn't it?

Yeah, I'd say it's going a bit far. I do think, though, that I wasn't in the press conference when Slott said, you know, as good as Keller has been, when Allison's fit, he will play because he is our number one. And I was quite surprised when I read those quotes. I stood in the mix zone at the time and read them on my phone. And because I just thought, I don't know, I'm not sure that sits quite right with me, because I think regardless of who

who a player is. I think, I just think when someone is performing at the level that Kelleher has done, I don't think it's quite right that you would say automatically, well, no, thanks for what you've done. See you later. Because Kelleher has been so ridiculously impressive. Of course, Alisson is still, I'd say, the more complete goalie. Of course he is. But

but he is starting to have more injuries. So yeah, it is a difficult one with Kelleher because, you know, a lot of people have said to me recently, kind of, well, why, you know, why would they even be thinking about letting him go? Because, you know, surely if Alisson's only going to be around for another year or two, you know, you give out, you know, give Kelleher another contract, give him a big pay rise and, you know, why bother bringing in Mamadashvili? But I think the problem is,

Kelleher has just had enough of waiting around to be the regular number one. He wanted to leave, of course, summer 23. Didn't happen. Klopp said he needed to keep him. Summer 24, this summer, he wanted to go. Didn't happen. And of course, come next summer, he'll only have one year left on his contract. So especially with Mamedashvili coming in, you would expect...

that to signal a partner the ways and then you throw into the mix as good as Jarosz looked when he made his full debut a few weeks back so I do have a lot of sympathy for Kelleher but would I go as far as saying Liverpool should be offloading Alisson and

keeping Kellen. I'm not sure. I think that's still a big shout. It definitely is. It definitely is. And that's it from Walk On, your Liverpool podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Thanks to James and Simon for joining me and you for listening. We'll be back next week before what's not the Trent Alexander-Arnold derby against Real Madrid. And you better be listening.