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This is Jessica Knoll, host of the new series Back in Crime. If you're a follower of true crime, you're probably familiar with some of the most shocking stories from our history. Horrific tragedies like the Columbine Massacre. He turned the gun straight at us and shot. Oh my God, the window went out. And the kid standing there with me, I think he got hit. Okay. Oh God. And notorious criminals like cult leader Charles Manson.
In a scene described by one investigator as reminiscent of a weird religious rite, five persons, including actress Sharon Tate, were found dead at the home of Miss Tate and her husband, screen director Roman Poliansky. But what if we were to turn back the hands of time and relive these events as they unfolded? Follow along each week as we take a fresh look at crimes from the past. Back in Crime is available now.
Voices for Justice is a podcast that uses adult language and discusses sensitive and potentially triggering topics, including violence, abuse, and murder. This podcast may not be appropriate for younger audiences. All parties are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Some names have been changed or omitted per their request or for safety purposes. Listener discretion is advised. My name is Sarah Turney, and this is Voices for Justice.
In the last episode, we discussed my father's release from prison, the detectives on Alyssa's case being reassigned, and you heard a portion of the audio from the 2017 meeting I had with my father. In this episode, we are picking right back up where we left off with the rest of that meeting. So what do you think happened the day Alyssa left? What's your series of events? Because you never told me that you took her out of school that day. She didn't want John to bring her home.
So I can't know? I thought I told you. I don't know if I told you. It seemed insignificant at the time, Sarah. Don't be rude. I kept thinking to myself when somebody started questioning it, when I said, I can't think of the other time. Did I ever take you out early for school? I'm sure I did somewhere for us to go see a movie or go do something. Probably like the one or two days a week I went, I'm sure I asked you to take me out early most of the time. It seemed like it was another time. I think it was the time we went down to that beautician school. Thanks.
I was looking for that, thinking in my mind, what if they had all that paperwork, or did we throw it away? Because she had quite a few booklets we gathered that day.
It doesn't really matter. People make conclusions by what they think. It's obvious. A stepfather always molesters their daughter. So tell me what happened that last day. Tell you what happened? Like and what, Sarah? What do you want to know that I haven't already told everybody on this planet? I haven't heard it from you because we never talked about it because I never asked because I just assumed. Nothing, Sarah.
Alyssa had told me she wanted to break up with John. That's the day or two before that. Okay. She said she wanted to leave early because she didn't want to be around him. And...
I went to go pick her up. I think we went by someplace and got something to eat, and we won a loss. We argued over this bullshit because first she wanted to go live with Crystal, then she wanted to live with Katie, and I talked to their mothers about that. She wanted to go live with them. With that one girl's name, she borrowed $100 from me that I never got back. One that was going to be accused of stealing. What else was there?
I had tried to give you guys to James. James didn't want Alyssa. He said he would take you, but not Alyssa. James told me the other day that Alyssa called and said that she wanted to come stay with him, and he said it was okay. There's a shocker. So she just came back. We talked for a period of time, whatever it was. We were arguing. Some of us, she said I was the problem because I was wondering her business, all this other shit about the stuff, whatever it was and stuff like that. I just said, screw it, and left.
Then I went back, I don't know, I think I went by the school to get shooed twice. And, 'cause there was another woman and I got there the same time and the bus was late. And I went off somewhere else, I don't remember what it was, wash my truck or do something, I don't know what it was. Something to keep me busy. And then I came back and then you and I came back home. You looking for something different? - Just looking. - Well.
If I don't blame you, Sarah, I guess I'd probably feel the same way. When answers don't come, people need to do something that makes it easier on you. Yeah, because that would make it easier on me. That's a logical conclusion.
What would make it easier on me than to have a missing sister act as my mother? Oh, that I can think my dad did it. That would make it easier. I don't know, Sarah. I don't have an answer for what you're looking for any more than what James did. James did come out and say, all of us children, individually, independently, come up with the same conclusion. And I was the last one to think it. Did you know that? The last one. It's so funny because...
The look on Alyssa's face, even that last day, I don't remember seeing fear in her face. I remember seeing defiance in her face. And my rationale would just wait one more year, darling. You can get your tattoos and your stuff, you can shack up, whatever you want to do. You can do all the drugs you want to do. Then you'll be responsible. But you need to get through high school. That's the promise I gave your mom. Can I at least keep that promise?
I've already set up. You're not going to have to take the AIMS test. Okay? You're going to get your diploma. All you're going to do is just attend the classes, which she was good at. I know. You know what her last class, her last thing she was doing at school that last day? What? Delivering messages. That's what she told me, I think. Yeah. She said, no big deal. I'm not missing anything anyway. Okay. Well, it's the last day of school. Of course you're not missing anything. I don't know.
All I know is it was a detailed report written about it and given to the first guy. I've been trying to remember his name.
He's the one that was assigned it. A citizen took the report. There wasn't even a cop assigned the thing. In spite of my screaming and hollering because I took them aside out of your ear's side and everybody else's and telling them about my concern about because somebody tried to break into the industry court because somebody had stole our go-kart and stuff off the back porch. Cut a chain in order to get it, not just ripped it off because I forgot to chain it up. And all the other calls, the hang-ups, the various other things. My paranoia was going wild. And when that happens, Sarah...
I begged and pleaded with the Phoenix PD. That's why I wrote up, it was a, shit, it must have been a 10-page report the first time. I put it all up, made copies, made sure that it was sent to them. Sent one to the chief of police. What, the day of? No, the day of. A couple days afterwards. Well, before or after she called? Before she called. Why wouldn't you report it as, an adult male took my juvenile daughter? You know how to report those things.
Because I didn't know it was an adult male. Your sister had done a lot of stupid things, Sarah. She might have taken off with one of her friends. I thought she had in the beginning. I chased her around. I got with that one guy's father. He was a green beret. One girl's father. One of the ones where he was to borrow the money from. John later on was living with her for a while. And he and I went around. He showed me the places where he chased his daughter down. Because she ran away.
And we went to those places like that. He wasn't as nice as I was. I met some of his kicking doors in at that apartment complex down there on Greenway, I think it was, or Thunderbird, whatever. I thought I was just 15 minutes behind her every time I went looking someplace. There's a lot to think because it's all fluids there, and unless you've been involved in someone running away or someone being kidnapped or someone missing or something like that, you wouldn't really understand the urgency that I tried to instill in the police.
Chris could have come and told me a little sooner that she was seeing somebody that was coming out and going in the car with him and all that kind of stuff. It would have made things a little better, but he didn't tell me until after. I think he didn't even tell me until after we got back. In what world would a friend tell a father about that? That's not what happens.
I don't know, probably because of my stupid speeches I gave to the manager of the Jack in the Box channel when I was young. You know, he was complaining about Alyssa being easily influenced and all that stuff. He'd give me a heads up and all that. I gave all those speeches to everybody. She'd spend the night, I told Katie's mom, I told all those people that, you know, my daughter's easily influenced. Please don't, if you see something, don't go over all of that, you know.
Please advise, talk to me about it. I'm concerned about it. We tried to discuss about Katie teaching her how to shoplift. Just help that other girl. I assume that girl taught you how to shoplift. Or did you just do that on your own? Who? What was the one girl? I was dead on my own. Okay, either way. Every parent's concerned about the bad influence of their children. Works for the Peace Corps now.
That's good. She's actually super educated and doing very well. She was a very bright kid to begin with. She thought she was brighter than everybody else. She was. They talked to me about you living with them. Everybody just knew you guys were better off with somebody else. You probably weren't. I probably should have let you go with Teresa and then we both could have been dope addicts. Whatever.
I made the decisions I made with what I had in my belly. You seem very good. I'm not sitting here trying to fight you about my childhood. I'm not like James. I'm not trying to... Because I don't care. Our phone conversation, I thought you were. No, when you bring up certain points, it makes me want to argue them, but I don't care. I don't. I'm good. I'm strong. You look very determined. That's good. You have brown eyes, too. I always have.
Well, I wish I had a super sucker, super star, super solution to give to you, Sarah. It's not selfishness. I'd make a deal with them right now. I'll confess to anything you want so long as I get the lethal injections within 10 days. Then do it. Oh, is that what you want me to do? Would that solve your problem? You just offered it. If I confess to something that I didn't do, just like I did with the plastic pipe bomb. I didn't say something you didn't do. Oh, you don't. All right.
Honey, we're not gonna get anywhere with this conversation. You're the one who's bringing up stuff like that, so don't... So you're just tired of the shitty parts that I keep getting in my head? It sucks, man. I'm tired of having to go to that high reunion. You ever think that maybe you've done some wrongdoing and there might be some karma your way? Karma? I mean, I'm fencing with your own karma, you bastard.
Maybe because I did some wrong things. This is part of karma. I don't know, but you're 69 and healthy and you're getting fed and you have a roof over your head, so... That's due to my abilities. No one else's. Like an adult should be. Well, I've been that way all my life, so... How do I have a roof over my head? Well, I imagine you're taking care of yourself, so that's good. I'm proud. Sure do, since I was 21. Well, since I was 19, but I've had my house since I was 21. Right.
Your brothers argue over all that stuff, and I told them I don't give a shit. You guys can argue all you want to about the mistakes I made and various other things. I don't really care. But I think, I thought about it a lot last night, you guys might be better off, Sarah, just disowning me completely. If there's facts out there, Sarah, to prove what you're saying, I will guarantee you, from my experience in law enforcement, my experience in law enforcement,
It'll show up, Sam. The hardcore smoke and gun facts you guys are looking for that put me into the gates of hell will show up. They have all the circumstantial evidence. They don't have a body. That's the problem.
That's not a problem. The city of Phoenix was the first person to put people on death row without a body, Sarah. They don't need a body. They need something more substantial than a bunch of gossip, rumors, and innuendos. And when I wrote the six-page letters, that chief of police must have went back and looked at some things and said, holy shit.
We just sent this son of a bitch into jail with a goddamn bad search warrant and everything else. Because I still have the grounds to sue the fuckers over that. Do you know that? Then do it. And I probably am. It's depending. I'm waiting to see what's going to happen with my kids. I think I know where this is going. If I was you guys, I wouldn't even be around me. And I haven't been around you. More than what you need to do. If there's anything of mine that you don't want, just throw it away or give it to me. Give it to John. Let him bring it to me.
See if I can use it. If I can't use it, then I'll throw it away. Because I don't have your top. Need for a whole lot of things. Okay? And I was going to spend, my first priority was to do a confrontation over the city of Phoenix and about all this stuff. But Christ, I don't even have a family to support me in reference to try and prove that this is all bullshit and lies and dispute this stuff. You can't give me any straight answers. You keep changing your story.
What am I changing? What story, Sarah? I asked, did you think it was Paul Abbott? Yeah, I did. Then why did you do this? Well, I didn't think it was Paul Abbott. It's all that. You know what you're doing. You're a very smart man. Paul Abbott, Sarah, was the person who saw Alyssa at Paradise Valley High School. Do you know what he was doing there? Yes, he was working on the property. Yes, he was installing computer cables and what have you, which is electrical type of work.
He was going over to Jack in the box and hitting on your sister. Okay? Okay. And the way Chris told it, if you can believe Chris, is that he had seen her. Or some other man did. Maybe she was picking him up at the gate. Hella, hella, all of them. Either way, it meant nothing to me. I didn't even know what his name was until I called Black Box to talk to them about it.
And the reason I got his name is because the secretary I talked to said that they were getting complaints from Paradise Valley High School that there was a guy with big loops in his ears, tattoos or whatever it was, smooth-talking guy like your car salesman, that was, in fact, she gave me his name. Against what the rules they had. Okay, but he's been cleared. That's good, Sarah. I'm sure they cleared him. I didn't say he did anything to him. What I'm saying is that somebody, as I told them before,
Had to give her a ride. She couldn't get on a bus. She couldn't get on a plane. And of course your assumption now is, and that's exactly what it is, an aberration that she never left. She didn't. The note doesn't make sense. She didn't take her money. She didn't take her prized possessions. The note doesn't make sense. It doesn't. And what's the part again you said about the note doesn't make sense? When you dropped me off at school today, I decided I really am leaving. When you had your fight after you picked her up from school.
Yeah. Why wouldn't it say after our big fight at lunch? How do you know she wrote it that day? Maybe she wrote it the day before and was planning on leaving the day before, but she didn't leave that day before. Exactly. She wrote it a few days before, didn't she? I don't know when she wrote it, Sarah. Do you? No. Did she put a date on it? Did she get some kind of a verification that was her signature? They had it analyzed. Did she even sign it? No. Yeah, she did sign it. Oh, did she? Yeah. I don't remember. And they had it analyzed, and it's her handwriting.
So she writes a note, but because the fact she said that when you dropped me off at school today, and I don't know if I even gave her a ride that morning, did I? And that's why I saved my money, but whoops, I didn't take it. Because she was riding with, she was going with those other two girls at one time. I think they took her to school that night. She didn't really have any girlfriends from PV. She didn't? Charity didn't go there, Jesse didn't go there, Katie did. Maybe you should have took some time to read her yearbook.
Yeah, maybe if it wasn't ripped away from me. Then let me ask you this. I want to tell you something right now. The Phoenix PD and I have had a really, really, really bad relationship since I was a kid when I ratted out on them even then. They're continuing to harass me now. Why haven't they indicted me, Sarah? They would indict me for being ugly after dark if they could do it. That's their goal. They're trying to. Good. Maybe this smoking gun will show up, Sarah.
Why do you have to taunt me and talk to me like this? I don't talk to you like that. Because Sarah's like, "Don't ever sit in here thinking that I killed her sister." Am I supposed to sit back and say, "Oh, you know, okay, well, you're allowed your opinion." Are you serious? No, you can act however you want to act. You're a grown man. It's true. I don't have an answer for any of it, Sarah. I really don't. I didn't expect it to happen here. Like I said, this was for my own peace.
Like I said, it wouldn't be pleasant, either one of them, if he was right. Oh, I could make it so much more unpleasant. I'm trying to be civil here, and you know it. Well, that's good. So don't act like a victim, because you're not. I'm not acting like a victim, Sarah. A little bit, a little bit. I'm acting like a father wanting to know how in the hell my family fell with this stupid shit that was pumped out. Dad, what have you done that's in my best interest?
What's that got to do with this thing about Alyssa? What have I done your best interest? Taking away arguably the most important person in my life has to do with my best interest a bit, yeah. And my future and the whole course of my entire life. You and Alyssa were that close, huh? We fought like normal siblings, but would we be closer now? Yeah. Did Mike and James fight? Yeah. Did Rhett and Mike fight? That's what siblings do.
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Well, one thing I can do is say that with time, and I have a guarantee, it will prove out with time. If something that tragic happened to your sister, I didn't do it. Okay, well, a normal response from a parent with a missing child to what, hey, will you come and do a polygraph and come talk to us, isn't...
Canadian operators and polygraphs for all your family. That's not a normal reaction. Good. It's not a normal reaction. No, it's not. Do you think a normal reaction is to come and raid somebody's house one week after they let you come in the house? No, a normal reaction is mine. Oh my God, let me come in and talk to you. Oh, I'm here for six hours? Well, as long as you're getting what you need. Interview me. Get me out of the way so you can move on to the next.
And you think me sitting there for six hours with them interviewing me is gonna make a difference. You don't think that we had a lot more conversations than that, Sarah? I know you did. They want you on their turf, like I told you. They had me on their turf, Sarah. We sat in there. I sat down there for 12 hours before they finally come in and said, "You're being charged with bombs." I said, "Bombs?" Yeah, and you were cussing up and down and not talking to them. You weren't giving an interview.
Who was it? You. You didn't give an interview then. You didn't talk to them. The guy come into me, Sarah, and he didn't ask me jack shit about Alyssa when I said, can you tell me what this is about? He says, yeah, DNA and some other stuff we need to get from you. I said, well, what else is going on? He says, well, they found something in your house. I said, you found something in my house and you care? He says, no, there'll be some people here to tell you.
Yeah, because it became a way bigger deal. And I sat there for four hours and four hours and four hours. They never come and ask me shit, Sarah. You're missing it. They never... They let me sit in their handcuffs. I had laid on the floor. They didn't give me anything to eat for almost six hours. And I was already feeling dizzy and sick because I had that anyway.
It didn't make any difference. They didn't do anything as I said in the letter. And then all of a sudden they come to me after they went ahead and charged me with something that I don't even know what the hell they're talking about and throw me in here and start laughing and mocking at me. The warrant for the bombs has nothing to do with Alyssa. The bombs have nothing to do with Alyssa? No, I don't think so. The threats against the IBW had nothing to do with Alyssa? I don't think so. Okay. They're totally two separate issues then? Yes. Okay. Gee, I didn't know that.
That's funny. I guess I did make mistakes. Baby Carter was gonna come back and get me for what I did to them. Or those two guys that you killed. What two guys? James asked the same thing. I didn't ask you anything.
You know, I don't really understand. I guess I do. I really do. You're poking the bear, and that's why you're getting these answers. I'm poking what? Poking the bear. You're poking me. You're poking and prodding me and forcing me to be snappy and give you these things. No, I want you to be snappy, Sarah. I want you to get this out of your system so you can move on with your life, whatever you need to do with your life. If your life is surrounded around vengeance for whatever happened to your sister, so when she doesn't walk back through the door 15 minutes after your ass gets hauled,
Then that's your motivation, Sarah. How am I supposed to tell my life story without an ending? Because you don't know what tomorrow is going to bring until it gets there. So there is no ending for you until the last breath you take and the first last sleep you take. When you go to sleep the last time, that's the ending. Now, if you can write after that, you'll be the first.
You got a misperception about what life's gonna bring you, Sarah. You don't know. I don't know what life's gonna bring me. I'll guarantee you this much, and I know this. That's what I figured the day to date. They said, you're going to a halfway house. I said, are you sure?
There's no holds, no warrants, no nothing. I don't believe the city thinks you're just gonna let this prop. They spent millions of dollars according to them. They had this horrible, treacherous guy. They got the FBI convinced. The FBI come and talk to me and he looked at me a minute and then that one FBI agent after about four hours, he looks at me and he says, "There really isn't much to this, is there?" "No, it's about campaign finance money, dude. About my stupidity." Okay? And they weren't even talking to me about Alyssa.
No, because you weren't charged with Alyssa. That's right. When they charge me with it, then we can discuss it. They can discuss it all they want to, Sarah. No, because you won't talk to them. So you're thinking that if I go talk to them, is that going to help you? Maybe. I don't know. That's up to you. That's not for me to pressure you. And I can't, you'll never do it. So there's not, it's not worth my energy for things I know you're not going to do. How do you know I'm not going to do it?
Because they can't get fucking Canadian Jesus Christ to stand next to you. So you won't agree. Can't be Canadian Jesus. Is there a Canadian Jesus Christ? There is, yeah. I didn't know that. I thought he was this fun dude. He eats poutine. Some part Jewish dude that came out of Jerusalem. I wish I could find a solution. That was written in the letter, Sarah, because simply the fact that the cops didn't follow protocol. Which would have been, Mr. Turney, we need you to come downtown so we can talk to you.
And they didn't do that. Wait, well, you also say that Anderson, like, poked you in the chest at the day you got arrested and Anderson was with me. I was with Anderson. Because they brought me to the station and said, oh, we... You didn't poke me in the chest. That's what you said. There's a report of you saying that. I don't remember poking you. And that he threatened you when he was at the station with me at that time, ruining my life. So, I remember it vividly.
Sir, he came out when the paramedics were working on me because they thought I was having a heart attack. When I told them it's nothing more than a heart attack. He wasn't at the scene until you were gone. Sir, he was right outside the door. Had he not broke the recorder, you could have heard it. The ambulance was right there. They were working on me. He walked up and he said, what the fuck do you think we were going to do? Stupid.
And I said, "What in the hell are you doing?" - Then how were they both down there with me at the station? - I don't have a clue how both of them were, but he came to that scene before I left and he walked up to me and he said that. "What the hell did you think we were gonna do?" I said, "What the hell are you doing? What's this about?" He said, "What'd you think we were gonna do?" I said, "I thought you were gonna follow the law." Asked the paramedics. I wrote them a letter and asked them to give me a statement about it, but they didn't want to get me wrong. One of their fellow little blue cops.
He taunted me. They laughed at me one after I got sentenced. You can ask the damn, I got a statement from one of the damn, what do you call them, marshals that were standing there because they were pissed by the way that those two assholes were mocking me and laughing at me. Yeah, I told them. I was there at every single court hearing. When you took me back to the cell, were you there, Sarah? Did you see them follow me out of the courtroom? No. Okay. Did you see the applause erupt after they gave the sentence? You didn't see that either, did you? No.
They made it into a personal thing, Sarah, and I was talking to them in the letter especially about professionalism. If someone were to approach me and say, "Listen, Mr. Turner, we need to really get this thing clarified because there are some inconsistencies in the officers and in you." But they come up to me and say, "Mr. Turner, your story is completely full of shit because you didn't confess." Then I'm going to tell them to kiss my ass, you piece of shit.
If you got something then you go with it, asshole. If you don't then leave me the fuck alone. But don't you want them to get past you and actually look for her then? Sarah. Sarah. Sarah. How many years did it take for them to get her dental records, Sarah? Fuck if I know, Dad. Five years. How many years did it take for them to finally put her into NCIC?
Five years, Sarah. And who was the one carrying the torch for those five years? Was it you, Sarah? I don't remember you doing that. At the age of 13? No, Dad. But hold it against me because I was a kid. What's the excuse? What's the excuse? I'm just trying to tell you that you're not listening to the full story. When you have done what they did when I was a police officer, and I know the protocol, and they cut the corners because they didn't give a shit.
They wanted to get me for whatever they could get me for. They didn't give it to them because I was a pain in the ass to them and always had been. Then why didn't they get you right then and there in 2001 when you filed the report? Because she was just another one of the poor runaways that nobody gave a shit about. Why didn't they treat Elizabeth Smart that way whenever she got involved? They did. Elizabeth Smart was all over the TV. Yeah, I know her.
Sure, it was good publicity. Doesn't matter. There's lots of missing kids cases who don't get attention. It's unfortunate, but it's not relevant.
Well, who was pushing to get the attention on us, Sarah? Is this what offends me when you say I wasn't trying hard enough to do that? Had I done what you said I would do, Sarah? I never said you weren't trying hard enough. That never came out of my mouth, actually. I mean, you used to sit and complain to me because you thought I was, you know, you think more of Alyssa than you do me. We both had that fight. We had sibling fights. We're kids. Don't listen to us. How about it?
Kind of hard for someone like me not to listen to my kids, sir. That's all I had was you kids. Okay. I listened to everything you kids said, and I don't know why. You just made me a shitty parent. I was a terrible single parent. All 23 years of my life that I've lived.
As far as telling lies, fabricating things, doing other things, I probably have a bigger closet full of white lies than anybody on this planet. As far as real facts and truth, it's just like when they got me on the stand and put me on the road and asked me about the plastic pipe, I said, Your Honor, I don't have a clue about it. That story is a fabrication. Oh, they asked you if you were in Vietnam and you told them no, because that's the truth, right? Yeah. So why lie to your kids? About what? You going to Vietnam. How do you know it wasn't there, Sarah?
Oh there you go another inconsistency in dad's life. I used to have like my first wife. You don't need to talk about Cheryl that's not nice. What?
She was sitting right there when I showed her the orders for Vietnam and didn't nod on her ass. Well, she's a very kind woman who treated me like her own, and there's no reason to be mean. And she says you didn't go to Vietnam, so... Well, that's good. And you told the judge you didn't go to Vietnam. There you go. Because you didn't go to Vietnam. Okay, end of story then. Yes. Is that somehow significant in the case in reference to Alyssa? Yes, because you lied.
Oh, so if I lied about that, then I lied about the other stuff. Because you're sick. And in your mind, you don't either in your mind, you don't think you did it or you just are too narcissistic and think you won't get caught. Either of which can be completely valid. You probably won't get caught. That doesn't mean I'm not going to look you in the eye and tell you this. All right. Either way, I'm exhausted, honey. I don't know.
Because I spent the first... This getting out of prison is not what I thought it was going to be, so I guess I was all wrong. You think it was what I thought it was going to be five years ago? Or ten years ago when you got put in? No, just like everybody else. When I was crying every night and trying to keep you up to date on your TV because I thought you would love it? Or because I would think about you all day and do all your legal shit for you? You think it's what I think it was going to be? That I'd have you back and then I would actually have a parent for the first time in my adult life? Because that's what I want. Sarah, you don't need it.
No, I don't. I don't need fucking anybody, and that's the problem. Everybody needs somebody sometimes. Dogs. Except for me. I don't need that. There's nothing to need. What do I need? I got my government money coming in, hopefully to be enough to do my little road show.
Hotel and that's fine. I'll sit there for the next three or four years. Thanks. My mortgage is $700. Dad, it's not like I'm living large. What's that? I said my mortgage is $700. It's not like I'm living large. My rent's $975. I believe it. Well, it is. You got a room over here. You're doing fine. So do I. And the money don't mean nothing to me. As long as I got it up there, I'll keep myself busy.
I'm trying to develop some kind of a lifestyle, whatever the hell that might be. This episode of Voices for Justice is sponsored by June's Journey. June's Journey is a hidden object mystery game, and you step into the role of June Parker and search for hidden clues to uncover the mystery of her sister's murder. Basically, you engage your observation skills to quickly uncover key pieces of information that lead to chapters of mystery, danger, and romance.
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In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared. I found out what happened to all of them, except one. A woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars. I'm Lucy Sheriff. Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.
Hear the story on Where's Dear? Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I think it'd be best for you guys just to break up. We'll tell Mike the same thing. I know he wants so much for me to spend with his boys. But if this is going to be something that stands between everybody because they're sitting around waiting for the Phoenix Police Department and their great endeavors and stuff. I know police work, Sarah.
If what you say is the truth about the molestations and about the other thing to come for, Sarah, they could charge me with molestation, Sarah, if nothing else. And they have it because there's no facts to it. What's the statute on that? Seven years? There is no statutes for the molestation, Sarah. They've gone after people 50 years after it happened.
I know police work a little bit, sir. I don't think it's changed that dramatically since it's been 40 years since I was a police officer. But whenever you work up the circumstances and somebody says so-and-so over there had sex with chickens on Friday, that's not a problem. You got an investigation going, but if you can't find somehow to corroborate that with something else, then you don't have shit. You got a rumor. That's the way it works. If they were going to do something, they would damn sure do it for now, unless something comes up.
Maybe a smoking gun will appear, Sarah. If it's not going to show up with the amount of publicity this case has had, it's always going to show. Anything's going to happen. Who knows? Maybe Alyssa will show up and come back and tell everybody that I molested her. Then you can put me in prison, Sarah. And like I can't say, my sister didn't warn me. Jesus. I loved your mama so much. Still do. And I still love Cheryl. So stupid a loser I am. That woman never loved me. I know your mom loved me.
I've never felt it. Why'd she file a domestic abuse charge when she was pregnant with me? That was interesting to find on the internet. She what? January of 1988, she filed a domestic abuse charge against you. Against me? You can Google it and find it. I don't care if you Google it or you want to.
Did you know that they have a tape recording of your mother who was so upset she was on the phone talking to the Phoenix PD? Because she believed and we took Alyssa down to have her examined by the pediatricians. And me too. To see if she had been molested. And me too. By Steve or his friends. So why would I be molested?
Exam two. I never heard you be an examiner before. I was. Really? When was that? The same exact time. So why would she do that? Alyssa was three years old when that happened. No. No. I was just a little bit. I was under a year old. She took both of us. Oh. Yes. There's documentation. And next week, I'm going to get stacked this big of all this documentation. And then I will have it for myself. I would be happy to send you a picture. Okay.
Do whatever you need to do, Sarah. I'm just saying the only one she said was Alyssa. My mother, your mother, Sarah, would not have put up with me. That's not the way your mother was. She didn't put up with Steve. No, because none of the women, none of the partner women put up with you. If you notice a pattern, we don't do that. We don't put up with you. She filed a domestic. Yeah, it's real funny. I'm sorry. That was just way, way too far. I can probably find it right now.
I don't care what's on the internet, Sarah. I'm serious that I have sex with chickens on private. Jesus Christ. She wanted them to investigate Steve for that, and they wouldn't do it. She was pissed off she couldn't take it. She called on the phone and they wouldn't take the complaint because it was overseas. And she was so damn mad she couldn't stand it. She kind of, she says, now I know what she means.
She said, "They don't give a shit, do they?" And I said, "No, they really don't." - No, and I learned that too when-- - If you had friends, the police department would really give a rat's ass, but they don't. So domestic violence in '88. You were born in '88, right? Yeah, see, I'm learning all these new things-- - That's why I concluded that she was pregnant with me. - You do know about the reverse vasectomy in order to have you, right? - I do. - We tried so hard so we could have a baby between us. - I know.
Ah, either way. All of it means nothing. It really doesn't. We'll see what goes on with it, whatever happens. If the politics get deep enough, the city of Phoenix will go forth with the trial center. Okay? And I have all the confidence in the world that there's no way in the world that I could convince anybody beyond a reasonable doubt that I did anything to your sister other than bust my ass trying to find out what the hell happened to my daughter.
That's all they're going to find. They're going to find somebody that went over the deep end because you really truly believe it. Those fucking union people did something to this kid because their actions were progressive as it went along and it got worse and worse. As I politically continued to not let go, like a bulldog, and I kept pushing it and pushing it and pushing it and pushing it. Not fully understanding, really, just how powerful it was. You push your version of events and I'll push my version of events and we'll see who comes up. What can I say? Nothing I can do about it.
Sorry. I do love you, son. I'll always love you. You can't stop that. I'm getting rat sass. It's the last breath that they inject me with from out of the hide. It doesn't make any difference. Alright? It's not going to change anything with me. I would have liked to have had a relationship with some of my children, I guess, but to be honest with you...
As I look at all of my children, there's not many of them that really are headed in the same direction as they are. I'm a totally different kind of person in that I've always been more or less alone anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
I get people come to me all the time. I got a woman right now trying to get all over me and stuff. I'm trying my best to avoid the thing because I don't want any more relationships with anybody. I don't want the heartbreak that comes with it. So that's my personal problem. My choice. You don't want to hear about this shit. You want to hear a confession for something again. And I'm never and ever the rest of my life ever going to confess to something I don't remember. You understand that? I didn't do anything to your sister.
other than push her ass to get her through school. I didn't. And try and explain things to her because she didn't understand a lot of things more than what you think she did. Why she couldn't be in love with her own brother. Why she couldn't do these other things. Maybe the teacher should have filed the reports when they called me in and tried and started talking about incest. And I'm not knowing what in the hell they're talking about. Because one of Alyssa's friends, or Alyssa herself, for God's sakes, told those people that she was in love with her brother.
So I mean, all this kind of stuff, calling her and telling her she's gay, I taped that conversation. I had a tape of it, but I no longer have any of that stuff. I got tapes of the federal government saying shit to me they shouldn't have said. I got tapes of all those cops saying things they shouldn't have said to me, Sarah. Including that little piece of shit Anderson who threatened he was going to get in our house no matter what the heck I thought about it. One way or another, I said, yeah, that won't be a day, Dave, you get a search warrant and we both know that you ain't got grounds to get shit because I am cooperating with your ass, you little turd.
Called him an asshole, too, just like he called me a son of a bitch. That's what went on. I don't remember him poking me at all. But I do remember him getting down there and saying, what did you think we were going to do? He was there singing. I don't know when he got there. I don't have a clue. I sat in that car for a long time as he went through the house. I was at the police station probably five minutes before he turned right back around and came home. And they were at the police station. So why did they break the recorder then, sir? Because they don't need somebody else reporting them. Oh, why is it a mistake?
Because the police can do whatever the fuck they want. Whoa. You think they can do whatever they want? I do. It's shitty, but they can. And you go along with that. I'm not going to fight the police. You're not going to fight the police? No. Why would I? I'll give you... I'm glad to hear that. Because that'll get you nothing but misery. Trust me, I know. I need the police to be my friends right now and tell me the truth. So why would I fight them? You're looking for the cops that you say can do anything they want to do to tell you the truth.
You think Anderson ever told you the truth? The cops that take countless hours out of their lives to do interviews and podcast things and still search for Alyssa when they're not supposed to, when they're not even on the case anymore. Yeah. Which ones are doing that? Both. Anderson and what's his name? Somershu. Somershu. These two great cops. The one who I talked to and said, your new cop isn't talking to me. And he goes, yeah, she's not so great. So Somershu is, what is he doing now?
He's a patrolman, right? Something like that. I don't really know. What happened to Anderson? Anderson, they don't have a cold case unit anymore. Essentially any crime right now in Arizona or Maricopa County that's over a year old is not being investigated because they have an extreme shortage. It's always been that way, Sarah. I solved the dreamy draw homicide thing. It was a cold case for 14 years, Sarah, when I solved it, son of a bitch. It doesn't, you know, it's because I took the interest because I was, only because I got lucky.
His wife walked up to me and gave me the .45 that he shot the two kids with because they were going through a bad divorce or something and he beat the shit out of them. Alright, she gave it to me and I gave it to Jerry Agro who was the lieutenant at the time and they went ahead and worked the case up and we got the guy. Whoa. The one down in Tucson. The guy skinning women alive and all that kind of shit, yeah. I give him a lot of shit on information because the cops are dumber than dirt.
What do you think I did all the other stuff I did do, sir? What do you think I kept calling the police department over and over again whenever we get one of these stupid reports? Because Phoenix wouldn't follow through with it. Your two, Somershu and Henderson, wouldn't follow through to find out. And I said, look, when you come and give me something about my daughter, you little turd, you need to follow it up because those police departments won't talk to me. It all has to go through you. And I'm sitting here on cans and needles wanting to know whether or not that's my damn daughter.
That's because you already made your conclusion when we first started this that I did, I'm the one that did it to begin with. And you were gonna work it that way no matter what happened. So you just went out there and said, "He fixed the program, he really does, because he was born on a Thursday at six o'clock in the morning and everybody born on a Thursday at six o'clock in the morning is a heinous person." What the hell is wrong with you people? Where do you think they got Chris's name to go talk to Chris there? I'm sure you gave them a lot of information. Did you know that Chris went to jail?
I'm sure lots of people have gone to jail they've talked to. Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Everybody that got involved, including your own brother, who made a deal with him in order so that they would let him off, or he'd get the Mesa police, whoever the one that busted him for his drug dealing and stuff, he would go ahead and tell them what they wanted to hear, which made enough big publicity, and I was just damn enough to go along with it to give the fucking interview and all the other kind of stuff.
It didn't make any difference. It was all the information and all the publicity and I am very glad that you've taken one burden away from me. So thank you for getting in this conversation. Because now I don't have to do what I thought I was going to have to do. Which is what? Take up the search for Alyssa. You're doing it. Thank you. That's representing the whole family, right? Not just Sarah. You're doing it strictly for revenge, Sarah. You're doing it because of the fact that she really would like to know the fate of your sister.
What do you think? I would hope you'd like to know the fate of your sister. Revenge gives me no joy. Alright. Most things in life, when it comes to the hard parts, don't give you any joy. Okay? That's fine. Believe me, I've been there many, many, many times.
You think I enjoyed running in the room and grabbing the gun away from my own stupid-ass brother? Well, I'm a sworn police officer and I shoot in the son of a bitch. You're dead wrong. If you think I enjoyed holding your mother's hand while she died, you're dead wrong again on that too, Sarah. You're absolutely wrong. I didn't want to be there. I wanted to run like everybody else. I wanted to run like Annette. I wanted to run like her mother. It's not the thing I wanted to go through because that kind of stuff sucks. You think I wanted to be there in that crib death of the baby? Taking those things out? You think the things I seen I really wanted to do?
You think this is the first time I've ever had problems with the government, Sarah? Do you know how long they've been investigating me for all kinds of shit? We had six serious child molester disappear out of here, Sarah, over about, I don't know, five or six years. There was a bunch of us they hounded. They called us vigilantes, Sarah. That's what your father was called by the Phoenix PD at a goddamn block like. Did you know that? No, you don't know that because you don't give a shit. You've made up your mind.
that your father's the evil one is because you let a bunch of idiots, assholes who are too fucking stupid or too lazy to do good cop work to go out and find out what happened to our family member. Anyway, I'm not doing it good. Now I'm getting irritated. I don't want to be that way with you. Well, thank you for meeting with me. Walk back safe. Maybe we'll talk again. Can I ask something? Sure. Did you bring my book? No, I didn't bring anything. You didn't bring anything? John would like to come pick some things up. He can't.
Next time on Voices for Justice.
On November 1st, 2017, I went to the police station for my scheduled meeting with Detective Summershoe and Detective Cooper, ready with my recording of my conversation with my father. Armed with my new mission from police to get media coverage for Alyssa, I was ready to do everything I could to get her justice.
Voices for Justice is hosted, produced, and edited by me, Sarah Turney. If you want to learn more about Alyssa's story and how you can help with the case, visit justiceforalyssa.com. And if you love the show, it would really help if you gave me a rating and review in your podcast player. Thank you so much, and I'll talk to you next time. Okay, guys. The question session at the end of each episode has officially evolved into the Voices for Justice aftershow.
This is a place where I can answer questions and just get real and unscripted with you guys. Unfortunately, at this time, I don't have any questions I can answer on the air for you guys. I've been getting a lot of questions asking what I think happened to Alyssa and asking what the police are currently doing in Alyssa's case. And these are valid questions that I do plan on answering.
But we haven't gotten there in the timeline just yet, so I don't want to throw them in right now. But I promise we will cover all of that and more.
In fact, I plan on having an entire episode dedicated to exploring as many theories as possible. Again, stay tuned because there's still so much more to come. All of that being said, please send me your questions. Please send me your topics you want to talk about in this after show. This is a place for us to get real with each other.
Even though it's just me talking to you, I promise I am reading them and I want to tell your stories. So if you have a question or you have a topic that you want to present in the after show, send me a voice memo of your question slash topic with your name and where you're from to sarah at voicesforjusticepodcast.com.
or visit VoicesForJusticePodcast.com for full instructions. But I love you guys. I hope that you're staying safe. And please, please be good to each other and love each other. I know that sounds so hippie and so woo-woo to some of you, and I get it. But that's just how I really feel. And that's why I have this platform. And yeah, I love you guys. Be good to each other.
