Oh, How We Have Fallen From Taste
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My whiplashed, exhausted, can't keep up ladies. Ladies, ladies, ladies. What's happening this week? Whiplash is absolutely the word. Am I right? Everything we're talking about this week, I can't keep up. Anywho, let's get into it. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford and you're listening to Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

Welcome to the week of the whiplash, honey. Back and forth and back and forth. Where's my neck brace?

Okay, so we, of course, we have to. We have to. How could we not talk about the back and forth and back and forth again between Kendrick Lamar and Drake? It's taken over the internet. It's taken over our group text, probably yours as well. Someone on Blue Sky told me that their regular weatherman on their local station, like a 60-year-old guy, was talking about it. It's everywhere. Yeah.

It's everywhere. It's one of those moments that has truly permeated culture. My favorite part is like one of the distracts from Kendrick. It had been out for a few hours and then I saw videos of people bopping to it in the clubs in New York. Oh yeah. Yes. Wild. Wild.

I have my windows open. The weather was nice. And like, I could hear from people's cars. I could hear from people's cars. I live on the eighth floor, by the way. So, you know, they were blasting it. Yeah. So we're going to get into all of it. There's just so much. It is, dare we say, a rich text. Oh, very rich. Too rich. Perhaps. Too rich. A little too rich. And then we, of course, are also going to talk about the Met Gala. Because, of course, that's happening in the middle of everything else. Why not? Sure. Put on a gown.

But before we get into all of that, let's check in. Ladies, how you feeling? Zach, you got a cute little smirk on your face. How you doing? I'm laughing because I almost spilled my coffee on myself, which just feels like me. I'm like moving too fast today. When I'm feeling flustered, I move. And I just think I'm feeling flustered because there's so much going on in the world. And I'm also catching a plane tomorrow to go to New York for some work stuff with you guys. Yay.

However, over the weekend, I had a lot of time on my hands because since last week, I got a stomach virus, which has been a long time since I got a stomach virus. And let me tell you, I was out. I looked at my Apple Watch, which everyone knows I've been tracking my steps. I got 500 steps on like

Saturday. Oh, you just went to the bathroom and back. You just went to the bathroom. That's what you did. And I saw that and I was like, this is the most depressing thing in the world. So I was really just comatose at my house for most of the weekend. But I did get to catch up on a lot of bad TV. And just because we're talking about a rap beef, I want to bring up a

beef that is going viral on TikTok and now on Netflix that I just need to see if our listeners are watching, which is the Selling the OC season three cast. Are y'all watching this show? Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Is it in the Selling Sunset cinematic universe? Yes, it's in the Selling Sunset cinematic universe. But they are messy and something that's emerging. And I'm seeing a lot of people watch this season or series for the first time because of this. But there is a queen on there.

who is openly queer. He disappears for the first two seasons. But season three, he comes back with vengeance because he accuses two of the very hot straight castmates of being a little queer curious or leading him on in many ways. Two men? Two men and saying one of them... That's L.A., baby. One of them propositioned him with his wife one night at dinner. So that teeth spills and it just...

engulfs the whole season. And these men are fighting for their lives. But what is interesting for me, and we can talk about it deeper once you guys see it or other people see it, is that to me, it's really a good study of masculinity right now in America and how when you push against masculinity or your masculinity is called out for not being normative or like others, how you as men start fighting for your lives in these really aggressive ways

Kind of like Kendrick and Drake. Kind of like Kendrick and Drake. So I was watching these, you know, mostly like white guys fighting with each other about like, bro, I didn't say threesome. I would never have sex with you because you're not hot. I was like...

I was like, this feels like Kendrick and Drake in some ways, too. So there was one moment where he shows the receipts, the queer person, and he's like, you said I had nice legs. And he goes, no, I didn't. He goes, look at my Instagram. And he pulls up an Instagram DM and it says,

Them legs? He goes, well, I said them legs because your legs are huge. You've been working out. Why can't I talk about them legs? And I'm like, what is going on? It just shows the pure homoeroticism of male relationships that they don't like to discuss. And then when a queer person enters it, it kind of brings it to light and there's an anxiety and a fear that erupts around it. You know, another rich text to really dive into. I mean, so much. Yeah, I do feel like this is going to

connect with a lot of Kendrick and Drake. But to set that aside, I do feel like so much of traditional masculinity is homosocial, not homosexual. So what you often see is there's this understanding of do it, but don't say it. So you're like performing in a way where it's like...

That's, you know, that's, I mean, sure, compliment someone's legs, but also compliment someone's legs. But that's fine until someone, like, basically says, like, here's the headline for what's going on here. Yeah, I'm just sitting here Googling these men. They're very pretty. They're very pretty. They're very pretty. You know, look at it if you're interested. It's good drama. It's low stakes, unlike what the Kendrick and Drake is giving us lately. Okay. Sam, how you doing?

You know, I talked with y'all last week about my travel week from hell, but I made it. And my big thing this week is just like, I had this like moment yesterday where I had to say to myself, you already know what to do. You already know what to do. I had been sleeping really badly the last week because I was stressed about all this work travel and this and this and that. So I'm telling my therapist all about it yesterday while walking the dog. And he's like, well, Sam,

You're saying you're not sleeping. Do you want to revisit our conversation about sleep etiquette? And I was like, I guess, girl. And the bottom line of it, long and short, is like, put your phone down before you go to bed. Put it in the other room. This is usually the problem. And so I did it last night, kept the phone out of my room, and I slept like a baby. Mm.

And it was just like, Sam, you knew this. This has been the answer for a long time. You know what to do. Do what you know to do, you know? And so like getting this reminder that a thing that can be really stressful for you or hard for you, oftentimes the answer is right there. You know what to do. Just freaking do it. Literally putting my phone down last night was a game changer.

It's so funny because as you said that, I realized, again, kind of like the things we do as opposed to like what we say and acknowledge. When I come into my office to write, I never bring my phone. My phone stays in the kitchen. But I always take my phone with me when I'm going to bed. And then I'm like, I've been looking at TikToks for 45 minutes. Yeah. And it just riles you up because before you know it, like I will end up.

looking at Instagram reels or TikToks. Then I want to Google something. Then I'm in the depths of Wikipedia for 45 minutes. The answer is simple, my friends. Put the phone down.

Well, I love this. My sister does this. She's on it for years and she swears by it, putting her phone in the other room. But I can never do it because that's how I wake up in the morning. You know, I like have my alarm. How do you wake up without a phone in the room? Is it just in the other side of the house and you just hear it in the distance? I need to pay Jonathan for two sessions because I'm just telling y'all what he told me. He was like, Sam.

If you're worried about not waking up with your phone in the other room, what you can do is buy an alarm clock. That's it. Oh, whoa. Okay. Analog. Yes. Anywho, that's my vibe. Okay. Sleeping beauty. I love that. I'll take it. I'll take it. Well, Saeed, how are you today?

Child, the vibes are maudlin. You know, we spent the last two weeks talking about, you know, the protests on college campuses. Of course, it's still going on. And, you know, I think generally speaking, people are at best disappointed by how so many, not all, but many universities have changed.

Just behaved. And now we have commencement going on. And just as a reminder, the graduating class of 2024, these college students were seniors during the pandemic in 2020. So this means that

These are students who probably didn't get to go to prom because that would have been spring of 2020. And they certainly didn't get to have like, you know, a traditional graduation. And so here they are four years later. And I'm here in Columbus where I live, just very surreal. And I'm just, I'm going to have to read from some reporting because like what? Okay. During the commencement ceremony, a member of a student's family fell from the stands and died.

very high up. We don't have a lot of information, but I mean, that is, you know, a traumatic event for this family, of course, with this person. Everyone saw it. Like, students are like, you know, visibly upset, freaking out. The university doesn't acknowledge it. Just goes on with the ceremony. Now, look,

I don't know how I would have handled it, but fortunately, I'm not a university leader. So it's not my job. So it happened during the graduation ceremony. It happened during the graduation ceremony. Students were freaking out. But wait, because...

Because, of course, in this era, this dystopic era, everything gets even crazier. The commencement speaker this year, his name is Chris Pan. He graduated from OSU in 1999. He just seems like a random tech guy. He's worked at Facebook, McKinsey. He posted about this on LinkedIn before his speech. But during his actual speech, he said, I got some help from AI to write this material. And he was like, AI stands for Ayahuasca Intelligence. Oh.

Oh, no. What? And proceeded to advocate for Bitcoin. And, like, people are booing. And then at one point I saw he was singing. I had to see video footage. I was like, my friends are trolling me.

Wow. It just feels like a perfect metaphor for how surreal all of, like, what's going on? What are we doing? It's so, and like, it's not just surreal, it's dystopian. So I live not too far from USC. And some mornings when I'm running, I will jog through campus and,

as you know, USC along with Columbia and other schools have totally canceled graduation. I think USC is now doing a party in a park for their kids, but no real graduation. But I was running around USC and I couldn't get in because it's chains around every gate. And like, you know, this was happening, but to see it,

It's just like, oh my God. I was driving to your house not that long ago, Sam. And I passed by USC and I was like, oh, USC, I always forget it's right here. It's such a pretty campus. And suddenly it became less pretty because those gates are huge. I have never seen them shut before. And they were chained and it just felt like a compound.

It just was weird. It just doesn't... Because it used to just blend with the neighborhood. Exactly. And for years, USC had tried to become a better neighbor to its black and brown neighborhood. Long history there. What message do chains send to the community? Anywho, it's off. It feels off. Yeah. I think I just... Just to acknowledge for listeners, I think something that we've all been in different ways reckoning with since 2020 is the way in which...

you know, really like a couple of weeks into the pandemic, frankly, a lot of us were like, oh, so we're just going to work through this? Like, we're not going to, okay. And that feeling, that cognitive dissonance, I think has lived with us. And I actually kind of feel like maybe now, four years later, you know, America and so many aspects of culture are trying to keep acting like everything's fine and it's becoming unavoidable. Like the chains are on the gates now, you know, so. The chains are on the gates.

Kind of hard to overlook that. And, you know, to that point, we also just wanted to do a quick update on what's going on in Gaza. As of our recording time, this is Tuesday, 1230 p.m. Eastern, that we are having this conversation. The Washington Post had this to say.

The Israel Defense Forces said on Tuesday that it took control of the Gazan side of the Rafah crossing with Egypt overnight, marking its first ground incursion into the southern Gazan city. While Abu Omar, a Gaza border official, said travel and the flow of aid into the strip, quote, stopped completely as a result.

Israel said it would send mediators to Egypt to negotiate a ceasefire and hostage release deal, renewing hopes for a pause in fighting, even as it pressed on with its military operation into Rafah. And just a reminder, about one million people have been living as refugees in Rafah since basically October.

That's the latest. And I would also note, I heard on NPR, I think this morning, Sidney McCain, who works at the UN now, oversees the food program, was stating that, you know, they have about enough food for a million people sitting at the gates from the UN, just sitting there. So just this continued... And they can't get it in. And they can't get it in. And so now this, you know, this ground incursion will only make that even more impossible. That food is literally, you know, feet away from these people. It's just so awful. And we're mad at the kids for protesting. Whew.

All right. Well, ladies, before we get to the episode,

We want to thank everyone listening who has sent us fan mail, emails, messages on Instagram. And we want to give a special shout out to those of you who subscribe to our Patreon, which is quite the kiki these days. If you want to join that group chat, you can find us at patreon.com slash vibecheck. And it is quite fun. Sam is famously posting videos a lot there of him. I got videos. I do share a playlist. All of it, y'all. Come through. It's a fun time.

Well, with that, shall we jump into today's episode? Let's do it. All right, all right, all right, listeners. It's time. We are gonna have to discuss and break down fully this rat beef between Kendrick Lamar and Aubrey Drake Graham of Degrassi fame.

You know, this weekend I was so excited because the story seemed really fun and it's like, oh, they're just trading insults. But latest update around 2 a.m. Tuesday morning, there was a shooting outside of Drake's house in Canada. One man was injured, but it was not Drake. We do not know for sure yet if the rat beef has anything to do with it, but we have to acknowledge violence has entered that chat.

So that puts kind of a somber note on the whole thing. We'll talk about that more. Could be a coincidence, but... You know? Yeah. And just to give context, Drake lives in the Bel Air of Toronto. There are shootings in this part of Toronto. I mean, Canada already has less shootings than America. They even got guns up there. I mean, come on. They don't have guns. So for there to be a shooting on his property that's now a crime scene in the wake of this beef feels like, you know, red flags. Yeah. Yeah.

So, we're going to talk about all of this and how this rap battle seems to have taken place at a faster pace than anything I've ever seen the music before. Warp speed. First...

I want to try to explain the battle up into now for our listeners. Saeed challenged me to be able to do it in two minutes. Yes, I did. I was timing it out. Have you practiced? Have you practiced? Oh, girl, I've been reading that copy. I'm so excited. We're going to see Chantel start a clock. I'm not going to go through dates. I'm not going to mention song titles. I'm just going to tell y'all who said what. And then we'll break it all down, okay? Fair.

All right, here we go. Three, two, one. In 2023, Drake and J. Cole released a track claiming that the two of them and Kendrick are the best three rappers out. Kendrick hit back on another track and he says there's no top three anything. It's just him. After that, J. Cole releases his own diss track, says Kendrick's work is mid. But then a few days later, he apologizes on a concert stage to Kendrick in front of his own fans.

Then Drake puts out a diss track making fun of Kendrick for making pop songs with Taylor Swift and Maroon 5. But because Rick Ross was mentioned in that song, he released the track claiming that Drake got a BBL. After that, another diss track from Drake, but most of us couldn't hear it because that was taken offline because Drake used an AI Tupac voice on the track without permission.

All right, that was phase one. Part two, shit gets really fast and wild. Next, over the span of just a few days, Drake and Kendrick released dueling diss tracks on multiple platforms, sometimes on the same day. It was wild.

Kendrick calls Drake a bad parent, says his abs are fake, alludes to ozempic use. Drake claims Kendrick's child really isn't his and says that Kendrick beats his wife. Kendrick then dedicates a verse to Drake's own son, says he's sorry Drake is that kid's father, and then says Drake has more kids that he's hiding. Also, Kendrick accuses Drake of being a pedophile because of that whole Millie Bobby Brown stuff.

In the midst of all of this, producer Metro Boomin releases a free diss beat called BBL Drizzy, and he urges people to make raps dissing Drake over the beat. Not done yet. After this, Drake claims that Kendrick is only this concerned with pedophilia because he was molested as a child.

Kendrick has rapped before about legacies of abuse in his own family. Now, keep in mind, all of this is taking place at a pace never before seen in rap.

If you add it all up, there were a total of 10 diss tracks released in the span of about three weeks, counting all parties. Several tracks came out on the same day within hours of each other. There were ancillary actors and many beefs, questions about what is true or fake in all of it, even a cameo from Taylor Swift's producer, Jack Antonoff. It is a new rap beef era. With that vibe checklist, listeners, you are all caught up. Thank you. Please clap.

Round of applause. Round of applause. Sam, I have watched TikToks that are four times the length of what you just did. So bravo. Chantel, keep it in. That was so helpful. And, you know, I've been in this since Euphoria. Euphoria got my attention. Because as you both know, and listeners probably won't be surprised, there's just so many aspects of straight life.

but especially straight male culture that I'm like, it's, I am so grateful. It's not my business, but euphoria suddenly it was my business. Cause I was like, Oh, we're getting poetry. It was poetry. Like when Kendrick,

really gets to it, you're reminded that this man won a Pulitzer for his rapping. For a reason. He's a wordsman. Now, I want to get into the beef and all of it, but we cannot start this conversation without first addressing that a beef that felt very fun over the weekend all of a sudden did not because of that violence I mentioned at Drake's house. How are y'all taking this?

You know, I literally for the last several days was saying this is the best kind of beef because no one gets hurt. I cannot say that anymore. Yeah, no, it feels like a return to the 80s and 90s where people really got hurt and some people died very publicly, you know, Tupac, Biggie, others.

And this was my fear personally because things have been elevating a lot. Like, let's not forget, Megan Thee Stallion was shot in the foot. And these men in this industry didn't know what to believe. Drake included. Drake made fun of her on a track. Exactly. Said she was lying. So...

This morning, waking up to my own mother in Toronto texting about, oh my God, there's breaking news, there was a shooting, which was very terrifying to read, to be like, oh my God, who shot? Because I got it at like 5 a.m. But it felt like what we grew up with as kids when you would watch rap battles and see what happened in the wake of those people dying. And it made me sad. I was like, oh, not again.

Yeah, I mean, I try not to be so precious about it because, you know, in many ways I think of hip-hop as a confrontational art form, whether it was, you know, DJs or MCs literally standing in front of each other freestyling. It was always, it was designed to be a back and forth before it became like now we're doing albums and singles. And so it is, to use one of Kendrick's favorite terms, part of the DNA of the band.

But yeah, I mean, you know, a friend of mine, Marcus Morris, said so insightfully over the weekend. He was like, it feels like we're just like watching Black manhood fight itself back and forth over these diss tracks. So, you know, we know manhood's relationship to violence. And maybe it's inevitable. That's really depressing. Yeah, yeah.

Zach, you mentioned something quite interesting about this whole beef. You said that this rat beef is giving you Bravo Real Housewives energy. I love that idea. Explain it.

It does. It feels like something that Andy Cohen could jump in and start moderating soon as a reunion. Please don't. He shouldn't. He should not. But, you know, for me, it feels like The Real Housewives on a few levels. You know, one, there is the obsession with place. You know, housewives are defined by the places in which they come from and they fight for those places. So you look at plays like the Black franchises like Atlanta and Potomac, there are some epic fights around who is actually from there, who actually runs that place, who actually can speak for that place.

who's authentically from that place whose money is real is another thing that comes up a lot on real housewives and between these guys specifically with drake and rick ross which we may get into but all these rappers are obsessed with money who actually has it who actually can spend it you know and then also beyond that i just mentioned rick ross but there is the the universe that has been built out around these men and the connections between them

And that feels very real Housewives, where each character is defined by their relation to or against another character in their community, and how that tension pushes them all against each other and how they all resolve it. I mean, just like a good example of that is like Not Like Us, that verse where Kendrick literally goes through seemingly every rapper in hip-hop who was vouched for or against Drake at some point. And that is the thing that feels very Housewife-y to me. You know, there was an era when a lot of the biggest rappers were...

when they were issuing disses, they'd be kind of subtle. You'd have to read between the lines to get who they were talking about. Everything about this rap battle has been incredibly explicit.

naming names, responding to every bar right away, every word merits response, every insult merits debate. And that level of back and forth feels quite housewife to me. Yeah. And significantly, I mean, you know, I think Megan Thee Stallion's diss track, Hiss, which, you know, we said at the time,

I don't think this song is about Nicki. I think this song is about men like Drake and other men in the industry. That felt like an example of a more traditional diss track to your point of subtlety. You know, nigga's mad at me. They need to be mad at Megan's law. She didn't say who. She didn't say what. Whereas Drake and Kendrick, like Kendrick is like, I'm talking to your son right now. Adonis, let's go. Did he say Sandra on the track? Mama too. The mama Sandra too. It was wild.

You know, when we talk about how this feels very housewife-ian, I'm thinking back to Scandival, which was part of that cinematic universe. And that was a scandal where super fans were looking for every clue they had, looking for secret messages, you know,

this battle feels very much like that as well. People are finding hidden meanings in song titles, in single covers. I call it Taylor Swift numerology. I feel like she and her fans made this a thing where everything they do is a secret message and it's your job to figure it out. It feels like that Taylor Swift numerology has been a part of this rap battle in a way that it hasn't been before. I don't know if I like it, but I find it quite interesting.

Yeah, I mean, you know, I saw on TikTok over the weekend, Swifties were commenting on exactly... They were like, oh, you know, like, we're not very familiar with all of this, but we are able to understand it. We know how to research. Because it's a... Yeah, it's a language. Yeah, I think...

technology, media, the way we communicate, the way pop culture exists in this dystopian landscape, I think just creates speed and intensity. And one of the things with that kind of conspiracy theorist level of intensity is, you know, everything's going on that we've talked about throughout this episode. And then here comes this beef and it's delicious. And I think it is satisfying to

to be able to embrace what I would call like the full immersion of it, you know, the hyper fixation. I mean, it's not unusual, right? When people are going through really difficult circumstances, they might kind of try to divert their attention to something that feels safer and more manageable. So, you know, dare I say it, it's a trauma response. It sure is. And these super celebrities want it, you know, in this era of always on media. Yeah.

It's not just how many times you listen to my song. It's how much time do you spend thinking about me? Because that is going to predict if you buy my merch, if you go to my show, if you give me more money. And so these stars, especially Taylor, they know having a bop is not enough. You need your fans' obsession.

Yeah. And I would say that there's something about the using of fans' obsession and parasocial relationship to you as a way to maintain power and order in the chaos that you live in. So if we look at how media has changed since the 90s, when we think about these past hip hop beefs, you know, when these things would break out,

MTV would cover them, people would go on MTV and talk about them or the other channels and do these interviews with, you know, big media outlets. Now, no one really uses media outlets. Not even, you know, Vice President Kamala Harris uses big media outlets. They use, you know, celebrity interviews and they use their own platforms to hold the conversation. So, of course, they're going to use this to be where the battle is waged with their music as well. And they're winning and they're monetizing it too. Speaking of that new coverage,

The best coverage of this whole beef, DJ Academics was doing Instagram live streams as the tracks were dropping. It was wild to follow. I hate to give DJ Academics credit, but you're right. I know, but it was good. It was good. Can I say one thing that does feel relevant? One thing I think is exciting and I want us to point out and draw attention to is usually it's coded as feminine.

And it's not just Taylor Swift. We can go back to the Beatles. Usually the media perception of the obsessed fan is that it's a girly thing. And girly is obsessed over this music. It's trite because they're not interested in serious stuff. But all of us know, if you've had the misfortune of having to listen to a man...

Talk about sports. Just sports statistics. And you're like, girl, no one. Oh, my God. And of course, hip hop heads have done this for a long time, too. So I also hope this kind of broadens our understanding of that kind of obsession. Yeah, we all can be obsessives. We cannot have this conversation and not discuss the big allegation leveled against Drake by Kendrick Lamar.

He alleged him of being a pedophile. And you talked about in the group chat how just the allegation itself highlights the way that Me Too has yet to really hit hip-hop. Saeed, why? You know, I don't fully know. What I will say is that we had...

Many years of allegations, credible allegations against R. Kelly, for example, before the Harvey Weinstein reporting brought us what we now think of the Me Too moment in 2017. I think hip-hop and the music industry very savvily compartmentalized those allegations.

So like Harvey Weinstein, it was like, he's a bad guy, but also he reminds us of other bad guys throughout the industry when we think about abuse, rape culture, and violence against women. That didn't happen in hip hop. It was like, it's just R. Kelly. My hope is that we're now at a tipping point, you know, and I think maybe we can look to, you know, the investigations into Diddy, for example, as like a sign that things are changing. I think it's good that,

to call out violence, rape culture, abuse. It's good. We need to shine light on it. But I will say Kendrick himself has collaborated with known abusers like Kodak Black as recently as his last album. So neither of these guys are saints, to say the least. Well, and there's a difference between pursuing real allegations in the spirit of #MeToo to find justice

And calling the rapper you hate a pedophile, you know, like it's just different. And I think that like, you know, accusation should be taken seriously. But is a diss rap battle the best way to do it in the way that Kendrick did it? Like, is it actually helping? I don't know. I also know that we don't know enough about what was alleged against Drake to say for sure what happened. Yeah.

I want us to talk about how the speed of this all has changed how we can even look at these battles. On the one hand, it was really cool to see all these tracks be released at rapid fire on multiple platforms and see folks react to them in all kinds of ways in different parts of the internet. But another symptom of our current internet era was that there were major questions about what in these tracks was true or not or AI or not.

That seems like a new development that we're gonna have to constantly worry about when it comes to music and more.

I'm a little dismayed by that. I don't want to have to question constantly what is true or not. Are y'all dismayed by this like I am? I mean, it was interesting. The songs were coming out so quickly, I couldn't necessarily listen to all of them at once. And at one point, I saw a TikTok with a screenshot of what looked like lyrics from one of the songs on Genius. I know the format, whatever. And those were fake lyrics. When I went to actually look it up, I was like, oh, wow. And I just...

I don't know if I've ever seen something like that. It's wild. But it seems like this is just the new normal. So I think we're seeing the beginning of a dystopic reality. At the end of the day, though, while I'm like, oh, that's kind of gross that some AI lyrics popped up, there is a world in which these artists could be using AI in the future because they have so much music out there. Drake has so much in the world. AI can create songs in his style that sound pretty identical to him.

So, you know, if it came to light that he had been using it to give himself an upper hand, I wouldn't be surprised, but it brings up a bigger ethical question of like, are battles just about like what you create solely or can you use, you know, the tools at your disposal? And I don't know. Yeah, well, and, you know, we're talking about how this beef probably got violent just this morning. How is that complicated by fake AI lyrics? If the stakes are so high, you know, does potential...

Fake music, fake lyrics make it even more volatile and dangerous. We'll see. Yeah, it's interesting. It feels like, you know, from a certain lens, people would say Trump introduced a certain type of fake news misinformation to media. But I think in retrospect, we can see it so clearly. He was riding a wave.

And that is why it's manifesting everywhere, right? Yeah. Yikes. Last question, because we haven't done this yet. I've heard all of these tracks like 18 times. I need to know y'all's review of it. Do you like the songs? Do you like the rapping? Who won musically?

You know, for me, I would say if we take a step back and let go of all this other stuff that's happening in real time, Kendrick, for me, is clearly winning in terms of artistry, you know, just musicality, in terms of streams. His is charting higher, all of them, than Drake is right now. So I would say Kendrick. Saeed, what about you? I think it's Kendrick without question. I think Euphoria in particular is a song that people will be looking back to, like, for decades. It's incredible. And I think, you know...

we could ask listeners to write five qualities that you think help define a great rap song. And without question, he succeeds, not just A-plus on all of them. A-plus extra credit. It's incredible. And then meanwhile, my issue with Drake is his rap flow beyond everything else. It's so stale. He doesn't... It's just like this. The last Drake song in this battle, he sounded tired and defeated.

And I will say the Kendrick song, Just Like Us, that's a bop. It's in the clubs already. It got me moving. O.V. Ho. Brilliant. O.V. Ho. On that note, we got to wrap. Oh, you get that? We got to wrap. Listeners, let us know your thoughts on the battle. Taking a quick break. When we come back, Met Gala.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, WeAreGolden.

Here's an HIV pill dilemma for you. Picture the scene. There's a rooftop sunset with fairy lights and you're vibing with friends. You remember you've got to take your HIV pill. Important, yes, but the fun moment is gone. Did you know there's a long-acting treatment option available? So catch the sunset and keep the party going. Visit pillfreehiv.com today to learn more. Brought to you by Veve Healthcare.

Listeners, we are back and we are talking about the 2024 Met Gala. So I'm sure you've seen the countless outfits and photos from the night that gets billions of impressions, which when I fact-checked, last year was 12.3 billion impressions, which means like, you know, technically like every person in the world sees one of these images, maybe twice, which is pretty incredible. And this makes this, you know, at the same level as the Super Bowl, but just for fashion. Yeah.

And this year really delivered or tried to deliver on fashions. And that's mostly thanks to Zendaya, the actor that we really love here at Vibe Check, who was the co-chair of the gala last night. And she walked twice? Blimey.

Walk twice. First time ever. Walk twice. She knew we needed it. Come on. She opened in a Galliano, John Galliano gown. That was, I thought, stunning. It was very reminiscent to, you know, John Galliano had a show. It was one of his Dior shows. Yeah, it was Dior shows, yeah. And then she gave the look from the Maison Margiela show that was a few months ago that was amazing. But it was just stunning. And then she closed with another Galliano gown, which was made the year she was born.

Just to put that into perspective. That's crazy, isn't it? Law Roach knows what he's doing. Yep. Storytelling. But she was a co-chair alongside people like Bad Bunny, who also looked incredible. He looks great. Chris Hemsworth, who didn't even try.

Oh, I got that single image of Chris Hemsworth. That man's warehouse suit. You should look it up because he just literally rolled out of bed and showed up. I mean, he has such a beautiful body. He should just showed up in a fig leaf. It was right there, Chris. But speaking of beautiful bodies, J-Lo was also a co-chair. She's been having a really rocky time these past few weeks, but she looked amazing. However, she looked like she always does. She looked predictable. It's like just her.

So this year's Met Gala's theme was the Garden of Time, which is based off the story by J.G. Ballard, which is a story that is about two rich people living in a villa who have an army on the horizon that is invading their land and, you know, is going to kill them. They're going to die. So to stop the army from invading them, they start...

pulling the leaves of flowers to delay time until they run out of flowers to pull from, you know, they meet their demise. And this was all in celebration of the new exhibition, Sleeping Beauties at the Met, which will open Friday. And, you know, I want to start there with you both. Hearing what that story's about, did that feel a bit on the nose? Are we seeing the aristocracy of fashion with an army around them? Trying to delay the passage of time and their eventual demise? Yes.

Yep. And I went toward this, you like,

The thing is, and I saw someone on Blue Sky point this out, they were like, listen, you know, of course this theme is a lot in terms of the moment, but they were like, honestly, the theme of every Met Gala has basically been the, you know, the dance of the red mask. Like, it's always pretty. Yeah, I will say what is interesting, just as an aside about the J.G. Ballard short story, is it is an early example of science fiction, actually, which is like an interesting element to see come in. But yeah, it just,

I mean, I was saying it to Zach and Sam. Y'all know I love fashion. I love fashion. Fashion, like, really, in some ways, brought me to writing because I wanted to, like, write poems that felt like these beautiful Alexander McQueen gowns, which I will talk about in a second. But it was just hard to care. I, like, looked at Zendaya and was like, this is beautiful, but... Yeah. Okay. Can I share a truth?

Every year, everyone's like, this is a theme for the Met Gala. But in my mind, it's just always camp. There was one year where the theme was camp. And I'm like, it's always camp. Which was a fun year because Lady Gaga gave us a performance piece that was actually iconic. But to your point, this is a celebration of the Costume Institute. So there is a level of costume, which means camp every time. However, this year was an interesting attempt at some subtle camp, which I don't think really landed...

that well. You know, something that is a trend that really emerged during the gala was the return of naked dresses. You know, very Marlene Dietrich decades ago, a dress that makes it look like you're wearing nothing. A lot of people wearing flesh tones, things that make you look like you're returning to the beginning of your life, your birthday suit, which is just nudity. And just thinking of that, no one can top

Kim Kardashian's wet dress, which I think was Mugler, was it? Oh, right. That was actually pretty. Just iconic. Anywho. Yeah, the one thing that I would say is, even if I'm a bit apathetic, I think this year's theme was tangible enough. It's like,

flowers a garden time just do something with it that i think it did give enough of these celebrities and their teams enough to go on where in the past usually the conversation is a it becomes like this debate over like who met the theme or not and this year it was like it's it's a that is pretty over the top theme and we got over the top looks to match it and okay that's such a good point because this year is the first year in many years where i'm not seeing a lot of coverage of

people didn't know the theme. Sometimes you have people show up and you're like, are you at the right party? This one, everyone was pretty consistent. They were just all like, uh, I saw someone tweet, it looked like a bad production of, uh, Midsummer's Night. Um,

that everyone was wearing. So with that, for you guys, what were some of your favorite looks? What were things that you were like, eh, not so much? Can I say, I expected her to get more love in the wrap-ups of Best Dressed. I always think she is an underrated celebrity musician, actress. I think she should have gotten an Oscar nomination by now for her film work. I'm talking about Tiana Taylor.

She looked good. She looked so good. Even her estranged husband, Amon Schumpert, he posted and said, you ate. It was this red. Seriously, he said, you ate, girl. It was this red number with a lot of leg fat.

A bright yellow blonde updo. Her face is just fierce. She looked so good. She looked great. She looked so good. She's cool. I would say she's cool as hell. And also, I think, I know they are estranged, but I remember when she let people know they were breaking apart and it seemed very much like they were still, you know, wishing each other well. So I like that. So with Zendaya, what I will say, I thought it was really beautiful. The original gown, like the Dior gown that, that,

this dress was alluding to, was very much like a female take on the god Bacchus, the god of wine. And so this kind of carried through. The Pat McGrath makeup was just so cool. And I felt like it was...

It felt like this is what we would get if Zendaya was a haute couture runway model. And we see the red carpet looks, but we haven't quite gotten that level. And I thought that was really beautiful. I loved it. I want to follow up on Tiana Taylor just to acknowledge those who made her dress. It was a velvet rose aplique gown from the archives of the blondes. Wow.

And if you zoom in, the whole thing is red velvety, big, long flowing, but there are these velvet roses all over the dress. Oh, that's cool. It's really spectacular. That's neat because the blondes is a design that has a lot of queer history and often collaborates with drag queens. So that's actually pretty cool. Love, love. Yeah. I love that.

So I love the people that you picked, but my favorite that you didn't mention was that the singer Tyla, did you see what she was wearing? I saw the dress. It looked a little boring. True camp. She's wearing sand. Let me look again. It's the sand dress. You know what it is. It's the sand dress.

So she's doing, she decided, you know, we're going to do Garden of Time. Oh, I didn't close up on it. Oh. It's made of sand. It's the sands of time. I saw a tiny picture. When I see it big, it looks like she's wearing sand. Sands of time. That was cool. Olivier Rousseau.

created it and it was just really beautiful and like had texture and had a POV she couldn't walk in it she was being carried up the steps arguably too much texture because they literally I saw I love they had to wait wait wait they had to carry her and she's very little men had to carry her up the stairs yeah impose her and then later in the evening there's a video footage of the designer actually cutting her out of the dress wow it's so ironic that she wears a sand dress when her biggest hit is called water right I like that but

That's what I thought too. Where's the water, girl? She's on her way to avatar status in the beginning. Okay, this is great because last night I saw it, but like a little small thumbnail. I didn't zoom in. I didn't see the sand until now. It's great. It's incredible. Can I rant for a second just really quickly?

I mentioned Alexander McQueen. Lana Del Rey, who I like Lana Del Rey's music. Oh, I hated that dress. I hated it. Yeah, I did too. She wore a custom Alexander McQueen gown made for her by the new creative director, Sean McGurr. He came in to replace Sarah Burton. With a gazebo overhead. Yeah, and it's really frustrating because that gown is, they call it a reimagining, kind of like what Zendaya did, a reimagining of one of Alexander McQueen's most famous

famous gowns. It's from the Fall 2006 collection. It was a bridal gown where it was like a bridal veld held up by stags horns. Very beautiful. You've probably seen this image. And this just looked like

the sheehan version and i just i posted on instagram oh how we have fallen from taste it just like it veered into costume and frankly just made me really sad because sarah burden i thought just did such a beautiful job of carrying on the legacy of her direct mentor and then sean mcgurk i'm just like dude you're just giving us derivatives yeah and bad derivatives not even like anything that's inspiring well speaking of an iconic designer someone that popped up all

all over the runway was John Galliano. John Galliano now from Marcella, Dior, Givenchy, anything Galliano, people were pulling.

What's interesting is that there's been a John Galliano exhibition that Anna's been helping curate for a few years, but it keeps getting delayed and is now definitely delayed because John Galliano, 14 years ago, made lots of news and was even arrested for anti-Semitic remarks while he was working for Christian Dior. He has disappeared from the fashion world, but over the

past, I would say, six years, the fashion world has been trying to get him to reemerge as a winner again because he is so talented. However, the anti-Semitism is still there and a lot of people have a lot of feelings about it. I had to bring that up because the context in which the gala is happening.

You know, we have what's happening in Gaza right now. We have the protests happening here in the U.S. with students literally getting arrested off the steps of the mat yesterday while the gala was happening because they were protesting for Palestine. And yet no one acknowledged it at the gala, but they were really willing to acknowledge John Galliano. How do we feel about that? This proves my theory. And I've been saying this since Me Too started, since we began to call it cancel culture, that

Most people who are canceled aren't really canceled. They just get a paid vacation.

Like a lot of these guys come back. Bill Cosby got out of prison. You know, like only Harvey Weinstein is actually locked up. So when I think of like men behaving badly, whether it be abuse, anti-Semitism, whatever, like there's just a laundry list of men who go away for a little bit and then come back. So I'm not surprised. Here's what I would say. You know, in a letter from a Birmingham jail, Martin Luther King Jr. warned people against hoping for a negative peace. That's what he called it.

I think a lot of people don't actually want the world to improve.

They just want to be able to go on with the party. They want a negative peace. You know, that J.G. Ballard short story is not about two people who want peace. They just don't want their lives to be interrupted. And yeah, and I think that's it. And listen, we're all implicated. We're all implicated, you know, in different ways for different reasons. But yeah, it's...

telling to see like how desperate people are to just have the party go on. I'll say that. And not surprising. I'm thinking about that comedian Shane Gillis. Years ago, he was going to be on SNL and then we found out that he was making incredibly awful and offensive anti-Asian jokes among other things. Just a few weeks ago, he hosted SNL. Like,

The story with these guys is they go away for a bit and then they come back. So I'm not surprised. Yeah. And it's, you know, I guess my closing note here is that the John Galliano arrival on the Met Gala red carpet yesterday is just another example of the energy a lot of institutions will put into saving those that they see as, you know, their equals or people they love and will not put that same energy into those that they never see as an equal.

Exactly. It's just really, really sad to see. I mean, even during the actual Haute Couture show, which was beautiful. I mean, Zach and I, in particular, we texted back and forth, like, this is so beautiful, but damn, Galliano. And someone pointed out, like, there's video footage of, you know, Anna's obviously at all of these shows. And as you pointed out, she's very much one of his champions. She's actually smiling, like, delighted during the runway show. And they were like, she never smiles. And so it's kind of like...

Depending on your proximity to true power, the actual gatekeepers, that really actually determines whether you're invited back to the party. And on that note, with all these allegations against Drake, he's not done yet either. I guarantee you he will have another hit single before it's all said and done. These men don't go away. These men don't go away. Don't get me started.

Well, the final note here is TikTok was the major sponsor last night in a bid to make sure they don't go away as they continue to fight for their lives here in the U.S. As of our reporting, they have countersued the United States in the wake of their Met Gala debut. So there's some interesting news there, too. It's also quite ironic that an institution like Vogue, which is the pinnacle of fashion photography, now needs TikTok, the music app, to help get their message out.

Legacy Media needs the new players more than they care to admit. Yep, they sure do. Well, with that, we're going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. We'll be right back with recommendations. Sean McGurr, retire! Retire! Who is Sean? He knows who he is. Leave it in, Chantel.

I'm Cindy Lauper with fellow Cosentix advocate, Chef Michelle Bernstein. We'll share our experiences with plaque psoriasis, with psoriatic arthritis, and Dr. Panico will talk about the possible connection. Cosentix Secukenumab is prescribed for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, 300 milligram dose, and adults with active psoriatic arthritis, 150 milligram dose.

Don't use if you're allergic to Cosentix. Before starting, get checked for TB. Serious allergic reactions, severe skin reactions that look like eczema, and an increased risk of infections, some fatal, have occurred. It may lower your ability to fight infections, so tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms like fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, had a vaccine or plan to, or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen. Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com slash Cindy.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden. Okay, my loves, we are back. And of course, before we end every show, we like to share something that's helping us keep our vibes right and...

This is certainly a week that is called for vibe assistance, vibe retrieval, vibe defense and protection, honey. The chaos is at the gates. Sam, why don't you get us started? Yeah, you know, we have talked before on this show about nepo babies, and in general, I

think they're all overrated but there's one who I gotta say did the damn thing I'm talking about Willow Smith she just released a new album called Empathogen

And I have been blown away. This album shows her vocal skills advancing in some really amazing ways. And she's leaning into some really interesting musical genres. Some of this album is jazz. Some of it's acid jazz. Some of it's prog rock. She's working with the likes of John Batiste and St. Vincent, the best working guitarists today. Like, it's a musician's album. And she's not just cosplaying, capital M musician,

She's holding her own with the likes of St. Vincent and John Batiste. It's really good. And I love to see, you know, someone who could have just been mad about being called Nepo Baby say, no, I'm going to just show you my own talent.

She has grown every album as a musician, and this one has her at the top of her craft. It's really good. You know, when you really take a moment and look back at, and she's young, but if you look at her career, she started very early on. My hair was when she was nine years old. And that's my point. She has not, find the false note.

Find the moment she went for it and didn't nail it because she's been doing it every time. Shout out to her song, Wait a Minute. Shout out to her song on an early album she did inspired by one of the characters from Adventure Time, for those of us who really did in it. No, I'm a huge fan of her music. She's very talented. Also, listeners, not just the new album. Check out her Tiny Desk concert from NPR. It's incredible. It's so good.

And I love how the press that she has done about this album, she just has been saying the right things. She was asked about being called a nepo baby, and she said, quote, insecurity has driven me.

I aspire. You go, Willow. You go. It's giving very Solange Knowles because they have a very similar life. I was born in the shadow of some really famous people, but I'm going to find my own path, even though that light is super bright. Watch me work. Just focus on the work. Zach, what about you?

So for me, I have been surprised by how much I love the Challenger soundtrack. I don't know if you all have listened. I've been into it because I know Trent Reznor worked on it and I love his music. He's been doing a lot of great movie soundtrack work for a few years. Yeah, he's won two Oscars. My favorite one of his, he did the soundtrack for The Social Network.

And I used to exercise to that album. It's so good. Well, you can exercise to Challengers because I didn't think I was going to like, I liked the clips they used in the movie and I thought it would just, that would be it. And then when you play it, you hear just the clips. They clip it like they do in the film as you listen. But then the other side of the album are the full records with even more records. And it's so good. And it made me, and it's part of his collaboration with this guy named Atticus Ross, who's not as famous, but they are the ones that have

worked on the social network for years and years and have won a few Oscars by now. But it has sent me down a rabbit hole of his past work as the frontman of Nine Inch Nails. And that has just been like a warm blanket. That was peak my shit. Sam, it is the 30 year anniversary of The Downward Spiral, which blows my mind. Oh no! Can I just say...

The extended drum solo of Nine Inch Nails' The Perfect Drug.

takes me out of my body it's so good and also if you want to keep going deeper you know I was re-listening to the album last night Downward Spiral and I got to Hurt and I was like oh I love Hurt and I remember Johnny Cash covered Hurt right before he died and then I listened to that and I almost started crying while eating cookie dough out of the fridge it was a lot going on it was a lot so anyway also Trent and Reznor fun to look at don't hate it

Like, I don't hate it. I don't hate it. That man said, I want to fuck you like an animal. Let's hear it out. Let's hear it out. Say more, Trent. Feel me from the inside. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued.

Oh, God. Listen, I got some vibes. I wouldn't mind Trent Reznor checking. Anyway. I had no idea this would lead here. I'm glad it did. Challenger's horniness continues to pulse through Trent Reznor. Thank you. Saeed, what about you? This poem

is from... This book actually won the Pulitzer Prize in 2023. It's by Carl Phillips, a wonderful Black queer poet. The book is Then the War. It is his new and selected poems, which is always exciting to get. Yeah, I think this poem is...

tender, but sharply political. And I will just say it ends on a dash. So it kind of ends with you just asking you to see where it takes you. And I think from our conversation with Ada Limon, it's kind of like, yeah, what feeling does it leave you on? The title is Fixed Shadow Moving Water. One friend tells me everything's political. Another says nothing is.

We just make it political. By we, he means human beings, I assume. What's political to a fox curled in sleep, or a pond, or a sycamore in winter with no leaves left to stop the snow falling through it? I have loved you for less time than I have loved some others, but none more deeply than you. No one more absolutely than

which, as if inevitably, amounts to a hierarchy of sorts. Doesn't it? Value, then the power that comes with it. Soon enough, the distribution of power. Who gets to do the distributing? But if we make of tenderness a countervailing force, the two of us, if we can make from tenderness a revolution,

Again, that poem is Fixed Shadow, Moving Water, and it's in the book Then the War and Selected Poems by Carl Phillips. He's just a wonderful, thoughtful, rigorous poet. There was a line you read in the poem that literally sent a chill down my spine when you said, I have loved you for less time than I have loved some others, but none more deeply than you. It's really beautiful.

really beautiful carl phillips is one of those like it's all i i call it like haute couture poetry where it's just like you you gotta you you lean toward the page and every line i mean even you see it on the page like how he breaks up that sentence it's almost suspenseful because you're like i've loved others more like oh where are we going with this but wow so beautiful so beautiful

All right, friends. Well, those are our recommendations for this week. What are you feeling or not? A lot of whiplash. You know, did memes get you through the week? Did beautiful gowns get you through the week? What's your vibe? Check in with us at vibecheckatstitcher.com.

And that's our show. Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Vibe Check. The, what did we say? The whiplash edition. Whiplash edition. We were whipping our hair back and forth to quote Willow. Yes. Look at this connectivity throughout. Well, listeners, if you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow the show on your favorite podcast listing platform. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and leave a review. And most importantly,

Tell a friend. Or two. Huge thank you to our producers, Chantel Holder, engineers Rich Garcia and Brendan Burns, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design. Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda.

Listeners, we always want to hear from you. Do not forget, you can email us at vibetech at stitcher.com. Stay in touch with us on Instagram. Zach is making those memes and posting them. We're at vibecheck underscore pod. Also, our Patreon, where I'm known to share a playlist sometimes. For five bucks a month, you get direct access to that group chat. Patreon.com slash vibecheck. All right, listeners, stay tuned for another episode. Until next Wednesday...

Stay out of beef. Bye. Stitcher. Join me, Dr. Panico, with Cindy Lauper and chef Michelle Bernstein to talk about plaque psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis, the potential connection and risk of developing permanent joint damage.

Or if IBD symptoms develop or worsen.

Learn more at 1-844-COSENTIX or cosentix.com slash Cindy. Kevin Hart here. You know, with Chase Freedom Unlimited, you can cash back 3% on dining, including takeout. So when your daytime snacking or your lips are smacking, you're cashbacking. How do you cashback? Learn more at chasefreedom.com. Restrictions and limitations apply. Offer subject to change. Cards are issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC.