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All my single and not single ladies. Wow. It's a full Beyonce edition of Vibe Check this week. I'm Sam Sanders and I'm out for blood. Oh man, I'm Saeed Jones and I'm here to cue the piece. And I'm Zach Stafford and I'm not a single lady, but I'm here to support my single ladies today. And this is Vibe Check. Vibe Check.

This week, we are going all in on Renaissance. We are talking about the new film by Beyonce, the two-hour-and-48-concert documentary produced, directed, and I want to say written by Beyonce Knowles-Carter. With some direction by Blue Ivy, I'm sure. You know, Blue was like, I have notes. Yes, yes. This film premiered in theaters on December 1st.

which was World AIDS Day. The three of us have seen it, and we're going to offer our review. We really kind of enjoyed it. We're going to talk about it and what it felt like to watch it in the room, not just with Beyonce fans, but with Vibe Check listeners. I caught a few Vibe Check listeners at my screening. It was quite nice. And then after that, we're going to talk about a very interesting, pointed, and strong review of this film from Vulture's Angelica Jade Bastian.

And she didn't like it. And I like that because it opens up a lot of discussion and we're going to go there. Did she not like it or did she have a lot to say? Oh, I think she didn't like it. I still can't land. I say this because I know Angelica. What we read was probably half of the first draft. So, yeah, like she knows how she feels. Right. And so I witnessed a lot of restraint in the essay, which I appreciated. But yeah, I don't think she liked the film as much as we did.

We'll talk about it. We'll talk about it. Fair. And I just want to say, because we actually, listeners, at the last minute, kind of changed up the layout for this episode. We were going to talk about Renaissance, but we were going to talk about something else, but it was just one of those moments where I couldn't go to sleep. I kept...

Oh, I went to sleep. Well, no, because we were texting so much. We were texting and then I would pick up my phone and I'd have another thought. I woke up. Mind you, Sam and Zach are on the West Coast. So for me to wake up to like...

Three voice notes, 15 texts this morning from the two of them is very unusual. But we had so many thoughts that it was like, oh my gosh, this is culture. Let's talk about it. Let's go on. And we should note here, all of this conversation came about because of Angelica's brilliant piece. And Zach was saying just before we began taping, it felt like for a moment that old internet was back where you could argue about shit and it was okay. Yes.

Yeah. It's felt like good nostalgia to have this piece in the world where, you know, I know people are reading and they're reading closely and they're finding their own responses. They're creating their own responses on Twitter. I'm sure an essay is incoming. By the time this episode comes out, there's probably going to be a piece on an arrival website because this thing at Vulture is getting traffic, honey. They are getting clicks on that. So we're seeing like an old internet that

all of us were raised in, where it was about creating really thoughtful pieces in the world that had the whole world talking about them and sharing them and having their own conversations. That's why we have articles that you share. That's why you post them on your social media is to have a conversation. And we've missed that. So I love that we're about to have one of those. Conversation is back. The conversation is back. And before we dive into it, we have to give credit. A Black woman, an excellent critic, Angelica Jade Bastien, she's given us a rich text

She's given us something that we can dive into and really spend time with. And Beyonce with Renaissance, both the film and the album, these are rich texts. And I think the way in which it feels like in music and in media online, so much stuff, it just kind of shows up.

And then like 15 minutes later, it's like it didn't even happen, whether that's a song, an article or movie. So like there's a word for this. It's called poptimism. This idea that if you like a pop star or something in the culture, you can only support it. If you like Taylor Swift, you only love Taylor Swift. If you like Beyonce, you only love Beyonce. Angelica fucks with that paradigm and I thank you for it.

Look at us. We are lit up like a Christmas tree, baby. We got to check the vibes. We got to check the vibes. I am excited, so excited to start the vibe check this week with Saeed Jones because he has thoughts about one George Santos. My hand, listeners, has been forced.

I have tried. Go there, do that, speak that. I hate you. I'm so mad at you. I know you do. I have tried. I know you do.

so hard to avoid talking about George Santos. The scammer, the representative, was just expelled, thankfully, from the House of Representatives. I think this makes him... And it took a while. It took a while to get him out of there. There were many instances where this could have happened sooner. But also, I believe this makes him, what, one of the first Congress people to be expelled, I think, since the Reconstruction era. Oh, yeah. Just to underscore...

And like a lot, you know, there've been like a lot of shady and corrupt politicians, obviously since then. So here's my thing. I woke up this morning and on top of all my feelings about George Santos, and I know Z-Way, I think is going to do an interview with him. And I'm like, sure. The white people who love you will eat it up. He's already on Cameo. John Fetterman paid for Cameo. I'm sorry. It's just...

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just like makes me giddy just to wake up and to see not only is George Santos already making cameos, literally making money off of his infamy. I guess you could call it. But that Senator John Fetterman is using like he spent something like I think three hundred and thirty dollars of technically campaign funds.

to buy a cameo just to troll a different congressperson using George. It just, here's my thing. It's tacky. Look, I won't lie. Santos is a, it's like whether he is delusional or a grifter of like a sociopathic level, he is, I guess, kind of fascinating. But what disturbs me is that we've entered this era and really Trump kicked it off where I feel like, and I said this, I think in the group text, if Stalin were alive today,

doing all of the horrible, horrible things he did. If that man gave us an opportunity to meme him, to turn him into a sassy main character, we would. He'd have a reality show. We'd be like, oh, look at Stollert. Yeah. What I find so...

hard to stomach about the whole george santos now industrial complex let's be real we think it's funny because he's gay we think it's funny because he's campy right but it's not it's not funny it's sad it's sad that this grifter could make it to the upper echelons of the federal government and stay there for a while and stay there and just because he makes you laugh

And just because you and your friends can meme him on the gay internet, it doesn't mean it's not sad. It's sad that he happened. It's sad that he was there. And it's sad that he'll still be around. Before this most recent vote, and fortunately he's facing federal charges. So I guess he's trying to get all his money so he can and use it for bail. He's going to pay those lawyer fees. But like more members of the Democratic Party about a month ago

voted to censure representative rashida talib for speaking out in favor of palestine she's palestinian american more of them voted in favor of censuring her than that same week voted to kick out george santos that same week you know think the tide has changed in the weeks that have followed but that stays on my mind you know what i mean like that's not funny yeah and this is the thing it's like

The truth of our politics right now is that the jester gets to stay. The clown who makes you laugh the most, who is the silliest, who is the most absurd gets to stay. Donald Trump.

We're doing this thing where it's funny and they're crazy and it's funny and they're crazy. And as we're pointing and laughing, they are taking power. Marjorie Taylor Greene, Lauren Boebert. These people are jokes, but they're still there. It freaks me out. It freaks me out. It's a lot, but I'm so proud of you for bringing thoughtfulness to a very non-thoughtful person. We're not talking about him. We're not talking about him.

So that's my vibe. I don't like it. I don't like how we've dealt collectively with any of this. And listeners, any of you listening, if you buy a George Santos cameo, we are kicking you out of the vibe check community. Now you know someone's going to do it just to troll us. You've sealed our fates.

Zach, what's your vibe this week? My vibe, beyond the Beyonce, I would say the glow I have from seeing the film, from reading the pieces about it. That's all positive, wonderful, great. I may see the movie again this week. We'll see. Besides that, I'm feeling a bit confused. And a lot of today's feeling like old internet stuff. There is like a kind of throwback

Yeah. Like George Santos feels like old internet. The Beyonce criticism feels like the old, like the height of digital journalism kind of piece. And then this conversation, I'm going to call it around Billie Eilish also feels like old internet. Because if you've not been following the news cycle, she has come out. I'm putting those in quotes. She did an interview with Variety where she confirmed that she does have same sex attraction to women.

She even brings up that she falls kind of outside the gender binary. She's ever felt like a woman, but she doesn't identify as trans. So she's giving us that like Gen Z queerness. She said something in that interview I just wanted to highlight that I thought was so great. She said, to be a woman, it's such a war forever. Yeah, I love that.

If you go back and read the piece, it's really beautiful, nuanced ways of talking about gender, identity, her body, how her body's consumed, how she finds humor in the objectification by certain rappers because she consents to it. There's a lot there. There's a lot to chew on. But the thing that really broke out is the same-sex attraction, which led to headlines saying that she's come out as queer. And then it led to her being

asked about it on a red carpet. By the same outlet, to the same reporter, I think, right? By the same outlet, same reporter, same everybody, where she reconfirmed it all. And for context, this interview that happened for the cover of Variety was at her studio. Her family was present. Publicists were present. People were there. And those covers, especially for the trades,

are checked by the publicists. So like, let's double check that you said the right thing. Yes, they're like checking everything. So this seems like this was like a consensual process, even down to the red carpet part, which she seemed a little nervous talking about it. This is her first time as a huge star saying this out loud.

But in the wake of that, she has posted on Instagram as of, I think, Monday. And Billie writes, thanks Variety for my award and for also outing me on a red carpet at 11 a.m. instead of talking about anything else that matters. I like boys and girls. Leave me alone about it. Please, literally, who cares? Stream What Was I Made For, which is her song she penned for the movie Barbie. That's going to be up for an Oscar most likely. Which is up for Song of the Year at the Grammys too. What do you make of this, Zach?

I'm confused as a journalist because coming out stories are the subject's choice on how they happen. And, you know, I've overseen a lot of them as an editor, as a person doing them. And you do a lot of conversations with this person of like, how exactly do you want to frame this story? Because it is a very personal story.

And it feels to me that all of this was pretty consensual. And the red carpet journalist wasn't like, I mean, 11 a.m. is early, but it's not that early, girl. It's also the cover where you've had 24 hours where you've seen all the pickups about you coming out and there was no preparation. So I'm just confused. I love her to death. I just feel like bad because the journalist has been getting a lot of threats over and being accused of outing her.

I'm confused, but I think what I want most is for Billie Eilish and others to just really understand the power of the word outing. Saying that someone has outed you means a lot. It's a big deal, and it usually implies a malicious intent. So when you use that word, you should think carefully about it. I think technically, if we're going by what was said and when it was said, I think Billie Eilish outed herself.

At the same time, Billie Eilish is 21 years old. I, at the age of 21, didn't have the words, the language, the protocol to efficiently and effectively and safely talk about my sexuality. It's hard. It's a process. And to expect the 21-year-old dealing with this to get it all right is unfair.

That said, I want to be open and affirming and understanding because what all of this says to me is that Gen Z is coming out in a different way than we did.

And I want to learn and I want to know. So I'm just like waiting to see what happens next because I think there's more learning for me. As a 39-year-old, a lot of it I'm just like, I don't get this. This is helpful. As Sam said, you know, the word outing in its history, it's a very significant word. People have died over that word. But also, I guess the one other nuance I would bring to this, I was thinking about time. Because these kinds of magazine cover stories,

And Zach offered the context of how it was done. That was probably done months ago. Exactly. In a very specific time and space and context. I do this podcast for a reason. Because there are certain conversations that I'm only willing to have in this kind of time and space. Mm-hmm.

The red carpet that happened this past weekend, however, is a very different time and space. And I have been thinking about that because at first I was like, this just sounds like a publicist jumped in and was trying to course correct and kind of like a cynical industry. But I was like, you know, given how much Billie Eilish has both in her music and in interviews, not just this one, talked about her body...

body consciousness, feeling uncomfortable. The red carpet is like a war zone, to use her own language. And so I wonder if what has happened...

You know, you've just kind of come out. You and your team and your family have thought on the right time and space to kind of have this big announcement for you. That is, you know. And then here you are, you know, and I don't know what she was wearing, but you know what it's like on the red carpet. You got paparazzi screaming at you in these clothes that maybe you don't normally wear. They may not be your most comfortable clothes. And then...

That very important, significant question is brought to you in a different way. And you kind of you answer it because you're a public figure and you know that that's what you need to do. But when you're at home, maybe sitting on the toilet the next day, you're like, you know what? I'm a little pissed. Yeah. But here's the thing, though. I totally hear you and see you.

But Billie's team the day before was seeing all the press around her talking about being into girls from the magazine article that had already published. I would more agree with the sympathy that lies there.

If it was the first time this thing was discussed, but it had been discussed in the magazine article that took a long time to make. I think what I'm looking at right now is like, all right, what does Billie and her struggle with this say about what Gen Z needs as they figure out sexuality? And not just Gen Z. I mean, what we all know. All of us. Yeah. And like, I think what Billie is asking for is,

is grace and space and the ability to always lead the conversation themselves. It's about that for me. That's fair. And I think how do we allow that to ourselves and folks we love? This is a conversation that you should get to lead. And it felt like she didn't feel like she had that.

in this last week. So my sympathies to her, Billy, you know, I love you. I agree. And I think my lesson on this is that I've noticed a huge shift with young people in that they are willing to come out, talk about their identity, but they don't need it to be a huge identity marker for them in public. You know, like when I became the first black editor-in-chief of The Advocate, there were headlines that were like, Zach's the first black, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And people were really excited. That's a very millennial thing to like compartmentalize your whole life and

to being a first, to being this and that. And I feel like Jinzy's like, yeah, I said it. It's not a big deal. Why are you making this such a big deal? I hear her. So just, it's new. I would say listeners, we're in a new era of coming out and we're going to be tracking it moving forward. For sure. For sure.

Also, I mean, this is another throwback. We're talking about a damn magazine cover. When's the last time that happened? I know. I know. Nostalgia, baby. Nostalgia. Oh, my God. Is it 2013? Sam, how about you? What's going on you? What's your vibe, my love? My vibe is really good. Zach was there with me. But this weekend, our dear friend and executive producer of this podcast...

I had a home going service and healing circle in which we celebrated many things and also honored and grieved Brandon's dog, Xena, who passed away a few weeks ago.

And I got to play the saxophone at the service. And it was beautiful. And the whole thing was just all of us there setting space to grieve whatever needed to be grieved. And there was a reading at the service as an essay from Adrian Marie Brown called Spell for Grief or Letting Go. And there was one line that hit me so hard. She wrote, your grief is a worthwhile use of your time.

Wow. So that's where I'm at. I am getting through the end of this year, which has been full of, you know, grief for me. And I'm at the space now as the year comes to a close where

where I am saying to my grief every day, you're allowed to be here and you aren't a waste of time. So that's the vibe. Thank you, Brandon, for the lovely, lovely day in the park. It was quite nice. Zach, wasn't it? Zach did the flowers for the homecoming. It was beautiful. I did do the flowers. I assisted with the flowers. My boyfriend, Craig, did the flowers and it was a whole process because he had a whole concept and then threw it out at

the literal 11th hour on saturday we had a pivot so uh yeah but they were marigolds you're a real one for those who lost yeah you're really good oh marigolds oh what a beautiful symbolic but you know something i just wanted to underscore you know sam you know grief is you know one of the themes as much as fabulousness and friendship on this podcast it occurs to me you know a paradigm shift i'm going to ask of all of us listeners included

Have you noticed that when we talk about the range of emotions, happy, sad, angry, mad, we don't say grief? Grief isn't included as one of those valid everyday colors, but it should be. But it is. Yes. Should be and it is. I love that. All right. Well, love to Brandon. Love to Zena. Loved all of you. And Craig for the flowers. That's really sweet. Before we get into the episode, gosh, we have so much to talk about this week. We want to thank all of you for sending us fan mail, reaching out to us on social media, saying hello to us at Renaissance Screenings.

Of course, you can always email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com. But girlies, as we approach the end of 2023, get out those heated fans one more time. I want to hear that clack, clack. Let's jump in, shall we? Let's do it. All right. So for this first segment of our Beyonce-themed episode, we're going to talk about...

the film, how we felt, how we loved seeing it, all the experiences, all that good stuff. But before we get into that, I just want to give the Queen her flowers and talk some numbers. So this past weekend, Queen Beyoncé reigned supreme at the box office with her new film, Renaissance, a film by Beyoncé, which Sam mentioned, she directed, wrote, did everything.

Every little piece of it, she was involved. She even did the editing with an editor. It opened in first place with $21 million in North America and $27 million globally, according to AMC Theaters. This weekend that falls after the Thanksgiving holiday is famously bad for all films. It's a dead weekend. It's a dead weekend. Super dead weekend.

Yes, because everyone focuses all their weight on Thanksgiving. People are tired from Thanksgiving and they're not going anywhere. Yeah. And all the movies really utilize that Friday after that. Many people are off work if they're not working retail. But Beyonce said, you know what? That won't break my records. And I'm going to really pass that. And renaissance defied all odds.

With the $20 million revenue, which hadn't been seen for over 20 years. But Beyonce, in true Beyonce fashion, couldn't just release a film. She also released a new song called My House, which plays at the end of the film during the credits. And it's ratchet and banji. It is. It's very banji. But that second half goes. Yeah. So...

We have to note, Beyonce's film was huge, broke all these records. It, however, wasn't as big as Taylor Swift's Heirs film, which has brought in hundreds of millions of dollars. And honestly, that's fine because they're very different fan bases that approach movie theaters in very different ways. There are more white women in the world than black women. I'm sorry. It's like we know who the core demos are. And like, yeah, I'm not mad at that math. You know, Taylor's film got 90 million plus opening weekend views.

But both of these things are good for the movie industry. You know, like, Beyonce just had to release a trailer or two. She didn't really market this. The premiere happened. I didn't even see it. But we're all going. This represents, I think, a model for a struggling movie industry. Tap into existing fan bases. They're here. Beyonce fans are here. Taylor fans are here. Give them stuff. And

And Beyonce and Taylor know that, you know, they went to each other's premieres, which feels like an acknowledgement of like, we're all waiting here. Let's just like chill out. Yeah, exactly. They're all doing fine. Let's jump in. Saeed, I want to go with you. You saw the film in Ohio. I did. We saw it in L.A. L.A., you can assume it's filled. Lots of Beyonce fans live here.

What was it like in Columbus? What was the scene like? Did people dress up? People definitely dressed up. Not as intense as the concert, thankfully. I dressed like cute. You know, I put together like a little moment. But yeah, there were some people wearing like silver face gear. One gal had on a cowboy hat that would like strategically light up like neon green when the energy was hype. That was really fun. People had fans. Wow.

Yeah, I'm so glad to my girls here, Kylie and Marcus. We went to like a 1030 p.m. showing in Easton, Ohio, which is right outside Columbus. And it was so fun. It was great. I really enjoyed seeing it. Our movie theater was mostly Black people.

and it was ecstatic. We danced, we cried, we held hands. And I guess just to kick it into a specific detail, and if you haven't watched the film yet, and you don't want specifics, go ahead and pause it and come back. The Alien Superstar Glitch.

When the screen... And for a second, for a second, in this theater full of black people who clearly care enough about Beyonce that we're seeing it technically the night before the premiere.

I thought AMZ had put its life on the line. I was like, is there security? Baby. Ooh, that, that way. Cause it's probably just like five seconds of suspense, but it was more thrilling than any Matt action movie. And why? So I'm so glad that you're bringing this up because you and I, this is also a weird flattening of time and space. We saw the movie at the exact same time in different cities. So when I,

exited in text, you text at the same time. And I was like, why is she still up? It's so late. But I was seeing mine at Burbank AMC 18, which is a theater I don't really go to. So,

Saeed, I also thought it was a glitch on AMC's side because when Oppenheimer was released, a lot of the 30mm screenings were stopped in Burbank specifically because of issues with film. So I was like, what is going on? And I was about to get up and then it came back. So no, it did give you that same sense of what it must have felt like being at that show and having it stop and not

knowing what's going on, which makes this a really good film. It does thrust you into the film. And yeah, so I use that as an example because that moment where you, in the theater, you're watching it, you think something's gone wrong in real time, but no, of course, Beyonce is in control. She's using that suspense to

and moment of disappointment to do something narratively, that was when I went, oh, this is elevated. This is a step beyond Homecoming. Yeah. Sam, what about you? You know, I really enjoyed the film. Cried a few times.

I, as with all movies these days, would have taken off half an hour, but shit still slapped. I loved it. Or give us an intermission. Two hours and 48 minutes. The concert had an intermission? Exactly. But my biggest takeaway was seeing this film and having to stop, catch my breath, and realize that Beyoncé, quiet as it's kept...

Mm-hmm.

She is talking to the lighting effects specialist and telling them how light theory works. And she's like, no, light works best when there's darkness, absence, and then the light here. Or like she's talking to the camera folks and they're like, we don't have that big of a lens. And she's like, I Googled, you do.

You know, we're talking to her as she's blocking all these dancers, as she's leading all these choreographers. She's a director, and she's made one of the most visually stunning films of this year. And then you think about it, she directed Homecoming 2, also the most visually stunning piece of film in that year. When I think about all the music videos she's made, she was directing those too. And so if anything, I left the Renaissance film actually looking at Beyoncé and

and saying, all right, I want to consider her best works alongside Scorsese, alongside filmmakers, because this is film, right? Like, don't even get me back on Homecoming. I've never seen anything like it. And that was her. That was her. And then when you think about the fact that she still got to this level with this tour and this film, she's 42 years old. She has three kids now. Her knees are bad. She

She had knee surgery right before the concert started and she filmed the knee surgery. You know, it is just a testament to Beyonce as she is the project. Yeah. She is the filmmaker and she's also the star of the film.

That requires an incredible focus, but also detachment. She's able to see herself and see outside of herself and then make a thing that all of us want to see. I don't know. I was in awe. My big takeaway is Beyonce as filmmaker auteur. And I want to just add to that because she is an incredible filmmaker, but she hasn't done that often.

on her own. Her training primarily comes from the great Melina Matsuka, a black woman who has done a lot of her music videos. And who directed Insecure. Solange directed Insecure. The very first collaboration they did was Greenlight. Oh, I didn't know they went that far back. They went that far back. Didn't she also do Formation?

Formation. But Melina was even working on this film. She was editing as part of the team and helping oversee. And Miss Tina Knowles even made a post about Melina in celebration of the film saying, thank you so much for being my other daughter and helping us get through this process. So Beyonce is a leader, but also brings on experts that help her learn. She gives them opportunities and they grow together. It's just so, so beautiful. So something I want to ask you both is, you know, we've seen the concert a

a few times. Four. Me, three. Two. I love us doing Beyonce math. It's fun. That's what's up. Two, three, four. Don't carry the one, nigga. But what is something...

What is something the film made you desire more of? And I can begin. Mine was, why weren't we talking to the costume designers? There were four stylists. I was shocked we didn't have a whole segment with the costume designers. I know she shows the seamstresses. I was shocked. It was a huge team. There's four stylists that toured with her, not including seamstresses and everything. And the

pools came from every major fashion house in the world. It was a whole process, huge machine. Loewe in their studio, I think in Paris, had a Beyonce section for the past few years where they were just producing and creating. So for me, I was like, that's a missed opportunity. You focus on these costumes. Why weren't we talking about them more? Sam?

You know what I wanted more of? Late Twins. Yeah. I don't hear them talk. They weren't really present. And they're there. They're always there. You're always watching them. It's like three seconds we actually hear them speak. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're so fine. They are so hot. They're gorgeous. I also, you know, so there is an extended ballroom dance-off moment of the concert.

At the end of Pure Honey, before the last song of the show, Summer Renaissance. And this is when her dancers just get to whole court and it's like 10 minutes or in the show. She moves that section up in the movie and makes it shorter. I would have loved to have that whole 10 minutes. Yeah. I would have loved one. A thousand percent. Like once you're like, well, we're going to be here for almost three hours anyway. Yeah. And also for those who couldn't have gone to the concert to see that. Honey Balenciaga, baby. Give Honey Balenciaga the sequel.

Yeah. Like, just, yeah. Yeah, I want, like, Honey, Balenciaga, and Amari, like, go on the road together. Like, I want a road trip film about the two of them. They're just so wonderful. Yeah. I will say, I was pleasantly surprised at how gorgeous and poignant all the Blue Ivy content was. You know, Beyonce talked at length about how she really didn't want to let Blue Ivy dance at first when she asked. Right.

But she did. And Beyoncé said, I saw all the comments. I saw all the feedback. And so did Blue Ivy. And she wanted to work and get better. And Amari, the dance captain, coaches this young child beautifully and nourishes her. And by the end, you see this young black girl held up by her community and family getting better at a thing in real time and getting more confident in a thing in real time. And you see this interaction between Blue and Beyoncé that's

That is, at least in that context, somewhat of a platonic ideal of motherhood. It was really nice.

I agree so much. And I have two things to say about that. One, it broke my heart knowing that Blue Ivy saw the comments. And that's what supercharged her to then get better and focus on this. Because I would not have done that at 11. I would have hit in my room. I would have broken down. But she is a titan of a young person. But then two, something I thought was really smart as a filmmaker for Beyonce, because everything she does is very thought out, is around the same time that we're seeing Blue Ivy emerge as a filmmaker,

as an 11-year-old. She does show us footage of her at 11. After her voice goes out, she tells us about her voice going out. Her dancing back then was terrible. The Girls' Time movements were awful. And I was like, this is her leading us to Blue Ivy to say, you can't judge these kids from first blush. You got to give them time, nourishment, to build. And they did that. What would have happened...

If social media technology, da-da-da, being what it is now, had been like that when Beyoncé was an 11-year-old girl. You know, you don't want to discourage any child. I'm just criticizing any child. I just, I really don't like... Also...

Praise be because praise be. Blue Ivy is the reason Diva was in the tour. Stayed in the set list. Yeah. She kept it. She fought to keep it in the set list. I love that moment. I love that moment so much. This is what I found so interesting. Like Beyonce is richer and more powerful than all of us. But every now and then she tries to give us a snippet to be like, I'm just like y'all.

And in this moment where her child won't stop talking at the grown folks meeting and she has to shush her own baby, it's giving. They're just like us. But you're like, actually, no. But that was cute. But also she handled it very, she handled that moment very well. She did. I guess, God, I'm just sitting here getting my life because so much of what y'all are saying is resonating. What I would have liked to see a little bit more, and I know this resonates with what I think we're going to talk about more in the next segment.

When my friend Marcus that night was dropping me off at my place and we were just talking about how much we enjoyed the film. Marcus is a photographer and hosts a film series here in Columbus. And so we talk about this a lot. And I realized just before I got out of the car and I said, you know, I think because of the people who were guests in the documentary, but also because of the dancers and the audience members, this evening was the most I have seen Black queer people

on a big screen.

And I realized that when we were in London together, the first time we all saw her, first of our summer renaissance, the tour ends and then the last image is an image of Miss Tina looking at Uncle Johnny. And again, I had just to see him on this huge screen to see a black gay man just projected. We talk about representation, but there's a physicality to that that really moved me. I think I would have liked...

a little bit more in terms of Black queer people speaking. Maybe a moment with like O'Shea Sibley's family members. Yeah. Also, you don't hear Uncle Johnny's voice. You don't hear Uncle Johnny's voice. We got a bit. We got a bit of it, but like a little bit more of house music, like specific people talking about it coming out of the devastation of HIV AIDS, particularly Black people in Chicago and Detroit. That's where it just felt a little restrained.

And that's going to be more for our part two of this conversation because we're going to go there because Angelica Jade Bastion's vulture critique of this movie gets right in it. Right in it.

Yeah, I agree. Well, let's hold all those thoughts for the next segment. But before we go out, I have to say, I've heard from many people in my life who took their partners or mostly men in their life that did not go see the show. So Craig, who we've mentioned already, did not go to the show with me. He loves Beyonce, but he's not a super fan and was like, I think you should go with your friends and you should do this over and over with.

I'll wait for the movie. It's very expensive. But I took him with me to the Thursday night screening and I know my sister took her husband who hadn't seen the show and both of these men were overwhelmed. Mine cried like a baby over it and was so moved. And I heard him on a phone call the next day explaining to his colleagues how Beyonce's inspired him to work

Carter this week. So I would say this movie, even if you don't listen to her records, you haven't been to a show, take someone who hasn't to it. You will be inspired. It will move you in so many ways. It's truly tremendous. So with that, let's take a quick break because the next segment is going to be spicy. One might even say heated. Oh, there he is. He's here all episode. He's here all episode. Music

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are Black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging Black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

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All right, my loves, we are back and it is time for Renaissance Act Two.

cultural criticism that's right you thought beyonce was going to give us a country album next no she gave us discourse get into it and maybe a country album you know who's to say a culture album so as we kind of talked about at the top of the show you know as a testament to the richness of the album and the film it's also leading to some great conversations and so we wanted to use this part of the show to highlight a review from vulture film critic you've probably

read some of Angelica's work. I hope you have. I mean, she is an excellent writer. You probably heard her voice if you listened to my other show, Into It. I had her on a few times. She reviewed The Little Mermaid for me and The Black Panther for me. She's been a friend of that show and she goes in, which is why we love her.

She's a sharp mind. Again, her name is Angelica J. Bastien, and the piece is titled, quote, The Silence is the Loudest Part of Renaissance, a film. Now, listeners, if you want to pause here and go to Vulture and read Angelica's piece and then come back, Professor Jones wouldn't hate it. But to get started, Sam, Zach, how would you sum up the review? What's the gist? How would you characterize it?

Angelica, who is one of my favorite critics to ever do it, she writes this piece about the film that acknowledges the technical feats that it accomplishes. It acknowledges the artistry, the craft, the precision. But then it goes on to say, long story short, whenever Beyonce seems as if she's grasping for deeper meaning, she doesn't get there and that's on purpose.

She alludes to queerness, doesn't address AIDS. She releases the film on World AIDS Day, but never says anything about that. You know, she talks about how hard it is to be a black woman and make it, but she never tells you specifically what her struggles are as a black woman at her level. She talks about all of these things and alludes to all of these things, but Angelica's take is that she never gets to the meat and she never gets to a stance that could in any way be divisive.

And when she makes the argument, it kind of makes sense. And she lands the plane by saying this has been the story of Beyonce for years. She is, Angelica argues, one of the most apolitical pop stars of our time. And I had never thought about it until I read this piece. But as soon as she wrote it, I said, yeah, that makes sense.

I will push back a little bit because I do feel like the film, for example, like you mentioned earlier, when like the lighting people are like, we don't have a lens or whatever for that. And Beyonce's like, I Googled it. And she did kind of talk about like a black woman. But hold on, stop. Kinda. Kinda. Kinda. Like she almost got there. She almost got there. Right? She began. She began. Zach, what about you?

I agree with everything Sam just said. It does feel like the film is a beautiful, reflective pool that would be in the most beautiful garden and you would walk by it every day. But if you got in, you wouldn't go very deep. It'd be pretty shallow. And that's how the film is. She has all the right accoutrement, the right things to say at every right moment. But I don't know, there's no fringes on the edge. There's no roughness to it. There's no contradictions in it. It's not radical. It's really... And which is wild when you think about

You know, when Madonna, who she does reference, she performs with Madonna in Break My Soul remix during the show. When Madonna started doing Vogue, she incorporated the dancers and she made a whole film about Voguers. And then, you know, she's really, and she embraced it in a deep way. And when she released her record, Like a Virgin, I believe, she even put pamphlets of how to protect yourself against AIDS in the show.

inside her record globally to push back. And she talked about it and she got a lot of pushback for it. So she really stood on business as the kids love to say. I love that you're underscoring this point because when Madonna was doing this to offer context, at the same time, you have the Catholic Church trying to prevent

safe sex education. And so when we've talked about like the activist group ACT UP and the protest they did in the middle of a Catholic mass, it was specifically because the Catholic church was trying to prevent safe sex education. So that really shows it was a hot, very controversial issue and the Madonna's going right in there to it.

Yeah. The other thing that just symbolically came to me while I was reading this was the piece. It doesn't mention O'Shea Sibley, the young man who was killed in New York while she was literally performing. And he was dancing at a gas station to Beyonce and a white man killed him.

Exactly. He came to mind as I read this, not because he's mentioned because she doesn't mention him at all, but his story is really symbolic to the point she's trying to make in that Beyonce's tour was a safe space, but if you could afford it and if you could be there. And it didn't actually, you know, create a material impact to the lives of us around it that influenced it. Well, and emphasis on space. Sure.

She gives you this space, but she doesn't build a world for you. She doesn't give you direction for your activism. She doesn't guide you to any promised land. She gives you a space, which is enough. And actually, that's really interesting in terms of the silence, because actually one of the terms she does use at least twice is safe space.

She says that twice. But it's kind of like safe space, but you're not talking about what you're protecting us from. Exactly. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. I want to read a graph that Angelica wrote in this review that talks about the AIDS of it all and gets to what I think is the central idea of the piece. Angelica writes, quote, There's a clip in the documentary of Beyonce name-checking Uncle Johnny while speaking at the 2016 CFDA Fashion Awards.

which is meant to outline that his presence has always mattered to her career. Though Johnny died of AIDS complications, you won't learn that from Renaissance. The only mention of his final days comes when Beyoncé's cousin named Angie Beyoncé offhandedly refers to his hospice care. At first blush, the refusal to mention AIDS is odd in a documentary album and tour so primed on queer Black joy. But this is by design.

For there is no star of such magnitude who more cunningly positions themselves as apolitical than Beyonce. Her performance as an icon is meant to connect with the broadest number of people possible. To do that, her refusal to stand for anything specific beyond the watered down treatises on black excellence must be maintained.

That's the argument in a nutshell. That's the argument. And you know what? I love Beyonce and I want to be like, no, but as soon as she wrote it, I'm like, you know what? That tracks. Yeah. And I will say, you know, we talk a lot on the show about grief and remembering folks and thinking about the context in which they live their lives and did the work that they did. And we also respect deeply how people process grief and tell the stories of their life too. As we've talked about that already in the show, we've talked about grief, storytelling, Billie Eilish, how people position their stories, et cetera.

So I want to be respectful to Beyonce that her uncle who helped raise her died and she can control how she wants to discuss the trauma, the fallout, how it happened, etc. However...

There's a little too much like wink, wink, nod, nod from my taste as someone who also has an Uncle Johnny. His name was Uncle Timmy. He died when I was really young. It was very impactful to me. I've written and talked a lot about it, and my family will not talk about it. And I know we as Black queer men know how when we died historically in our families of AIDS complications, no one called it that. I said, oh, he had pneumonia. Oh, it was a heart problem. Pneumonia, cancer, something. Mm-hmm.

But Beyonce only furthers that erasure in the silence here on a political level that's outside of her. And it's weird. It's such a strange erasure because you see us. You see black queer men all over that concert, all over that film. So you can see us, but you can't hear us, if that makes sense. Yeah. And this is something that I really enjoyed the film. Yeah, we all did. I wept.

I wept during the Blue Ivy segment and again during the Uncle Johnny segment. When she went back to singing Heated, I was like, I'm not over crying yet. You know what I mean? But I do want to notch, it's really interesting because I didn't realize until I read Angelica's review that the words AIDS or HIV were

weren't actually set, right? Like I remember like the hospice care moment with Angela. So it's actually really striking because, and this is also something she talks about, the ways in which Beyonce has strategically embraced the fact that we project so much onto pop stars, like we were talking about like Billie Eilish, you know, earlier in this episode, it's not unusual for us to kind of put more onto them than they are willing to take on.

And it seems that like Beyonce is an example of a mega pop star who has figured out how to monetize that projection. But I also want to say that like in the film, I didn't notice the silence there, the rhetorical silence around HIV AIDS, because I know I'm a black gay. Like, you know what I mean? Like I wasn't. And so it's just like really interesting to be like, oh, wow, she didn't even have to say it. I just heard it and was like, OK, I'm good. And that's kind of. Yeah. And this is what she does. This is what she does when you think about the halftime show.

that everyone calls her Black Lives Matter halftime show. She just dressed like a Black Panther, kind of. She didn't say Black Lives Matter. She didn't issue a statement about police brutality afterwards. You know, she showed up to a few protests, but was quiet there. You know, she's silent on these things. She gestures towards the symbolism, but she's silent. So Beyonce, to be fair and contextual here, she has said the

the words AIDS and Uncle Johnny in public in a big way before. In 2019, I got to sit a few tables away from her at the GLAAD Media Awards where she gave a speech there with Jay-Z next to her about his life, what it meant to her, and what it felt to lose him to AIDS. It was a huge moment.

But that was so present for me while watching the film because I thought, why am I watching the CFDA speech from 2016? That's really vague and talks about him, which was great. When there's such an explicit, full-throated speech she gave, she could have used it there. And I was like, she's hiding something. Something's like, there is a vagueness here that I'm a bit uncomfortable with. But, you know, whatever. Beautiful gallons, beautiful songs. And I have to break in here because, you know,

I don't feel it is every musician or certainly every pop star's job to be radical. I don't. I think you can learn from and embrace radical ideas and maybe take them as far down the road as you're willing to go. And generally, I'm okay with that. I am. But to don the garb of Black Panthers at the Super Bowl,

to sample Malcolm X, a Black Muslim, right, who would obviously feel very strong about things like Palestine, for example, and then, you know, remain silent with what's going on now.

in Gaza kind of raises the bar. And that's also something like Angelica's pointing out that it's like, we're not just going to a random pop star. We're like, no, you've been engaging from and arguably using these ideas to buttress several of your albums at this point, right? Like Black Parade, for example, is drawing from the tradition of black nationalism. Formation is pulling from black feminism, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's this line in Angelica's piece that,

That really sticks with me. She writes, perhaps she, Beyonce, isn't apolitical so much as an emblem of black capitalism and wealth that seeks to maintain its stature. Renaissance of film demonstrates that black joy isn't inherently radical. For me, that's the nut graph.

For me, that says you can still like Beyonce and I do. I love the music. I love the film. I love the work. But I'm not going to her for radicalism. I'm going to her for joy. I'm going to her for celebration. I'm going to her for the good music and the good vibes. But yeah, you know, for me, the larger question is like how much radicalism should we expect from the biggest pop stars on the planet? I love that. And I wanted to ask, you know, as we get ready to wrap up.

we've kind of done the highs and then we've gone to like the heated, you know, with the critical takes. But I wanted to ask you, yeah, you know, we've spent a year with Renaissance between the album and actually two years at this point, the album and now the tour and everything, you know, what are you still willing to embrace? And Sam, you said it so beautifully because to me, Black joy is not radical. It is a starting point. Black joy is worthy. It is valuable. It is valuable, but it is not radical. Yeah.

And to me, it's like, you know, even the billionaires we love are still billionaires. Rihanna. Yeah. Oprah, if you're still Oprah, Stan, Beyonce, you know what I mean? They are what they are. And I think it's important to just acknowledge that. I think we can find value when they create it, but always acknowledge you could go further. But if you won't, I will. Well, yeah, exactly. In the same way that I in the first segment said that I want to place her in the pantheon of filmmakers that include the likes of Scorsese.

Let me look at her the same way I look at him. I like some of his movies. I don't like them all. He nods at some greater ideas, but doesn't always go there. I can respect the art and say, this man is not perfect. I kind of want to do the same thing with Beyonce. She is selling me a product. I must keep that in mind. Right.

I agree so much. And, you know, I was at the gym this morning before the show thinking about this conversation a bit nervous because we do love her so much. But I wanted to say some things that, you know, Twitter could really go in on or X, whatever we're calling it. But I realize I'm saying all of this because I love her.

I love the work. It's worth me talking about. It's worth me chewing on, thinking about, giving space to. And I'm willing to give her that much in my life, that she's going to give me work that references the moments in these really interesting ways, but it begins the conversation. It doesn't end the conversation. Beyonce is not God. She's not Jesus Christ re-risen. She's none of these things. She is Beyonce Knowles-Carter, a billionaire who makes really beautiful art that is not

perfect like Scorsese in his Flowers movie, which I could go on a whole 30 minute rant about. And that's what happens when you make work at this level. We should be talking about it. That's what we will do. In a previous episode of this show, I was talking about how when I went to see Beyonce on her tour the fourth time,

I was able to wander from the top down to the bottom and sneak my way into the ground floor. And I remember that feeling of walking through the entire stadium. It felt like being at the church conventions of my youth.

So in my youth at church conventions, like once or twice a year, everyone in the religion would come together for a convention in some city and you practice songs for two or three days and go watch sermons and then just like sing your songs together and hang out with everyone who was Pentecostal from like the whole country.

And when I was walking through that stadium at the last show, I saw the security guards and the ushers and the vendors all dancing and singing along and everyone kikiing. And it felt just like those church conventions. And I said, oh, my God, I love this. I love church. I love Beyonce. And I realize now with this conversation, I'm going to have to love Beyonce the way I love the black church.

The music is great. And there we have it. It makes me feel good. It brings me joy. But it is rife with problems. Yeah. You know who else won't say AIDS? The black church. Hello. You know who else won't be activists? The black church.

Yes, because I think whether we're talking about in a literal sense, which is to say on Sunday mornings into Sunday evenings, I'll get there, or whether we're talking in an existential sense, I once practiced this faith and I do not practice this faith anymore. What I will confidently say is the point of the church is how you live when you leave. There you go. I don't care what you do inside the church on Sunday morning. I care how you treat Uncle Johnny. Yes.

You know, at dinnertime Sunday evening. As much as I have enjoyed our summer of Renaissance, our year of Renaissance, the lesson is, okay, what are we going to take and how are we going to live, you know, outside the glow and the shimmer of this good time?

Yeah. We are leaving the church of Beyonce. 2023 was the year of the church of Beyonce. The question for fans and detractors alike is like, yeah, what do we do with this next year? Can we take some of the things that she's alluded to and turn them into practice for ourselves? That might be the work. I don't expect Beyonce to go there with me, but I could do it with my sisters, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I love it. And that's what good art is supposed to make us do. And I think we've now hit the moment of renaissance, this era in which we need to engage with it, read closely, write our essays, treat it like schoolwork we did in college or high school or whatever, and find how you actually sit within this world.

beautiful club that is Renaissance and how your life is inspired or moved by it. I think that's what you do now because we are coming down off the high. We've now experienced it. If the visuals drop, that's going to be great, but nothing will touch the sun that is that movie in that concert. I know you just didn't say if the visuals drop. He is done with us. Don't hold it on. You better...

I just want to see. I know they exist. I don't want to see. Well, we're going to leave it there for now. I just want to say also, I love you both so much. I've enjoyed getting to celebrate Beyonce. But look, it's no easy thing.

to talk in a thoughtful, complicated way about Queen Bee. And so I'm glad we were able to do this. Listeners, again, the critic we've drawn from for this piece, her name is Angelica Jade Bastien. You can read her piece on Beyonce. The title is The Silence is the Loudest Part of Renaissance, a film. Or you can put on your gas mask and run into the poisoned room that is Twitter.

and join the conversation. You know what I mean? Just as long as you can stand it because it's wild in there. I shan't. I'm waiting on y'all to just send tweets to the green chat. That's why I'm absorbing. Yes. Oh my goodness. Okay, well, let's take a break. We'll be back with some recommendations.

This message is brought to you by McDonald's. Did you know only 7.3% of American fashion designers are black? Well, McDonald's 2024 Change Leaders Program is ready to change the face of fashion. The innovative program awards a monetary grant to five emerging black American designers and pairs each with an industry professional to help them elevate their brands.

I know specifically and distinctly how McDonald's can support and empower not just black Gen Z, but black people. My first job was McDonald's. I learned a lot there about customer service and how to relate to people. I still love that place and go there very often. Look out for the change of fashion designers and mentors everywhere.

at events like the BET Awards and the Essence Festival of Culture. And follow the journey of the 2024 McDonald's Change Leaders on their Instagram page, We Are Golden.

Tito's Handmade Vodka had been mixed with its fair share of cocktails. But one night, a chilled glass topped with lime and cranberry would change everything this bottle knew about happy hour. From the producers of America's Favorite Vodka, it turns out the cocktail you've been waiting for was right there the whole time. The Tito's Rom Cosmo. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll sip with Tito's.

Coming to cocktail parties near you at Tito's Vodka.com. 40% alcohol by volume, namely 80 proof, crafted to be savored responsibly.

Listeners, we are back. Before we end the show, we always like to share a few things that are helping keep our vibes right. Since we went long on Beyonce this episode, this will be a rapid fire session of our Vibrex, okay? Saeed, first, you, go. Sure. This week's poem is from Nate Marshall. The book is titled Finna, which

which black people will understand, white people look it up. F-I-N-N-A. If you've been to a poetry reading, you've probably seen someone do a land acknowledgement to open the event. This poem is titled Landless Acknowledgement. Before we get started, we would like to acknowledge that we live on some unseated bones. Sometimes me and mine imagine ancestral homes. All I got so far is Montgomery, Alabama.

Maybe a boat. Maybe a plot of land somewhere so far from the south sides I've claimed that I would get lost on the way. I admit sometimes my homies talk about their families immigrating, and I get jealous. We lost the land we were custodians over before I was a twinkle in the eye of a twinkle in the eye of a twinkle in the eye. Close as I got to a homeland is my mama's Caucasian pitch on the phone calling the police.

Close as I got to a homeland is not never calling the police. Close as I got to a homeland is my daddy's laugh and a spades game. Close as I got to a homeland is my lover's tongue talking or otherwise. Close as I got to a homeland is the funk under a DJ's needle and my hand full of a dance partner. Not to be dark, but I am. Not to be dark, but the planet is on fire.

Not to be dark, but they move in capitals because the water is coming up. Not to be dark, but our bones are in that water too. Maybe that's my capital? Once the polar capitals melt and there's a whole lot less land for folks to buy and sell and steal, maybe everybody will feel a little more dark, will feel a little more homeland-less like we do. Why do you think I call my compatriots homies?

Maybe ain't no home except for how your beloveds cuss or pray or pronounce. That poem again is Landless Acknowledgement by Nate Marshall. Wow. So good. I love it. I love it.

it. I love it. Zach, what you got? My rec this week is the documentary feature by Matthew Heineman. He's an Oscar nominated director for another film from years ago, but this one's really wonderful. It's called American Symphony. It's about John Batiste in the year in which he was nominated for the Grammy. And it was the biggest year of his life. He was composing a symphony for Carnegie Hall, but at the same time, his wife and partner was battling leukemia and very, very, very ill. So it shows this kind of

bilateralism of you could be at your highest highs but also privately at your lowest lows and how do you live between those two spaces and create music through it all and his symphony he's composing is about black music over the past few centuries wow it's like an antidote to tar in literally every way yeah it is don't you summon don't you summon my Lydia without warning me first okay you will put some respect on her name oh my god

Well, Sam, what's yours? Yeah, we mentioned earlier in the episode how we had a healing circle with Brandon and some other friends this past weekend. I played my saxophone at the service and I played a song called Going Up Yonder. And it is from one of my favorite gospel albums of all time. It's an album called Love Alive by Walter Hawkins and the Love Center Choir. This album is perfect for

Getting Up Making My Coffee music. You put it on, just puts a pep in your step at the start of the day. A lot of you don't know that you already know the Hawkins family. Walter Hawkins' brother, Edwin Hawkins, with the Edwin Hawkins Singers, made the super gospel hit, Oh Happy Day, back in 1969. This is his little brother's album, his first big album, called Love Alive. It's by Walter Hawkins. It's a really fun,

uplifting gospel album that you can put on when you're doing your chores, making your coffee, just looking to shimmy a little bit. Love Alive is the album. Beautiful. And Sam's rendition is quite phenomenal, so you should release that sometime. It's quite good.

You're too kind. Listeners, what are you feeling or not feeling? What's keeping your vibe right? Check in with us via email whenever you want. Vibecheckatstitcher.com. Vibecheckatstitcher.com.

Thank you, listeners, for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show and want to support us, please make sure to follow this show on your favorite podcast listening platform. Like, subscribe, review, and of course, tell a friend. Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Sam Kiefer, and Marcus Hom for our theme music and sound design.

Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And as always, we want to hear from y'all. Don't forget, you can email us at vibecheckatstitcher.com and keep in touch with us on Instagram and with me on Blue Sky at theferocity at theferocity.

Zach Staff and at Sam Sanders. Use the hashtag vibecheckpod. Stay tuned for another episode next Wednesday. Bye. I realized it. Blue sky is your fetch. You keep trying to make fetch happen. It's not going to happen. Don't come for me. Damn, we really are like in a 2000s nostalgia loop today. Wow. I'm going to make fetch happen.

Stitcher. Tito's Handmade Vodka had been mixed with its fair share of cocktails. But one night, a chilled glass topped with lime and cranberry would change everything this bottle knew about happy hour. From the producers of America's Favorite Vodka, it turns out the cocktail you've been waiting for was right there the whole time. The Tito's Rom Cosmo. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll sip with Tito's.

Coming to cocktail parties near you at Tito's Vodka dot com. 40% alcohol by volume, namely 80 proof, crafted to be savored responsibly. Reese's peanut butter cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see, so, no, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem. Reese's, you did it. You stumped this charming devil.