Hey, Sis: featuring Audie Cornish
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Hey, listeners, before we dive in today, we are so excited to share that this episode is part of a special series called Hey Sis, and it's brought to you by Ulta Beauty.

Ulta Beauty is celebrating Black-owned and founded brands this month and every month. Head to your local Ulta Beauty store or visit ulta.com to shop your favorite Black-owned and founded brands. From skin and body care to hair care and makeup, they've got it all. Let's celebrate beauty, creativity, joy, and Black excellence together.

Ladies, hello. Hello. Greetings. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Saeed Jones. And I'm Zach Stafford, and you're listening to Vibe Check. We have a special Vibe Check announcement to make. I'm so excited to announce Vibe Check.

Vibe Check's first ever mini series. Wow. I know. It's giving Emmy nominated limited series. That's the energy we're tapping into. It's giving fun, uplifting. Yes. Yes. Our series will be fun and uplifting because we're going to be talking with black women we love. We're calling this series, Hey Sis, a Vibe Check series, and we're using it to celebrate both Black History Month and Women's History Month.

And so for the next two months, you're going to hear special conversations in this feed where me and Zach and Saeed interview Black women we love. Coming up first is a chat with journalist, CNN anchor, really good pep talk giver, and

and friend audie cornish ah i love a legend i love me some audi you know we worked together for a long time yeah i was gonna say you guys go way back we go way back audie was at npr for gosh a decade plus and before hosting all things considered she covered national politics for npr and congress for npr and so when i became a political reporter at npr

She was such an amazing mentor and friend and showed me the ropes, not just about what it means to cover politics, but about what it means to cover politics as a black person at a place like NPR. And always, without fail, if I walked by Audie's office and stopped to say hi, I would leave her office 10 or 15 minutes later with some of the best advice I'd ever received and a pep in my step.

She just does this thing where like, she's not supposed to be, doesn't have to be, but she could life coach you. And I love it. I love it so much. I also just have to say, you know, obviously during the podcast with the two of you, you know, I've renewed my appreciation for people's voices.

Audie's voice, look, she sounds rich. Butter, baby. Yes. Kerrygold. Like, it's just so elegant. I like how I feel when I'm listening to Audie's voice. Like, obviously, she's intelligent. She's, you know, she's an excellent journalist and interviewer, so I'm not just, like, caught up in the music. But there is music to her voice. Yeah. Rich. Rich.

Rich. It's going to be a great chat. I want us to just get into it and hear the richness, hear the opulence. You know, Adi can talk about it all. She is at CNN during a moment of media flux. We're going to talk about that. She's covered politics a long time, and I want to pick her brain about how we should all be consuming election 2024 because it's going to be a booger.

And she's just a friend who is a mother and a good citizen and a great person who can just talk about what it means to be alive in the world right now. I love that stuff, too. So I guess without further ado, let's kick off this very special Vibe Check series, Hey Sis, with the one and only legend, Audie Cornish. ♪

You're not talking to a civilian, okay? I remember you when you were a baby croc fellow. You do, you do. Being like, I think I want to be a host.

Chantel, leave it in. Chantel, leave it in. Let's kick it off there. You were such a sweetheart. I was a little baby. I was a little baby. You were. You were. You're like, I don't know if I should work at The Post or if I should work at NPR. What should I do? You remembered.

Before we go even further into yesteryear, tell our listeners who you are. Who am I? Who are any of us? I'm Audie Cornish. I am known these days as a former NPR host and a current CNN audio journalist and anchoring analyst.

Yeah, I love it. What I love about Audie Cornish right now is it's like, I know where to usually find you. I listen to the podcast. I see you on your socials. And then every few days, you just pop up over here, pop up there. Oh, she's on CNN today. Oh, she did this, you know, long form interview for a magazine. I love it. It's like the... Well, I'm not there on socials yet, but that's what I want. Like my fantasy...

well, I'm not like TikToking and stuff, but I want to be where people are. And I want to be talking about the things they're talking about. And I don't think there should be such delineations the way there are sometimes with

hard news, soft news, etc. because we all get it in something that is sadly called a feed. There you go. Which is a lot of things all at once. Yeah. And you want journalists who can do that, right? Like, you're good at being like, these are my influences, this is what I'm watching now, this is what I'm reading now, this is what I'm thinking, and this is how I think about the news, which is, I think, a much more human and holistic way to think about it. Yeah. When you talk about that human and holistic way of being a journalist...

Speaking from experience, it's very different from what we were taught. You know, there were lanes. You were radio track. You were TV track. You were podcast track. You were objective and not subjective. And this was your beat. And so much of the media landscape we exist in now, it seems as if all those lines are gone. Many other things are gone, too. Yeah. Yeah.

How hard has it been for you to adjust to that new reality? Fewer lines, fewer boundaries, more possibility, but more shit to be in. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's more like be careful what you wish for. Like I caught the car. I was like, I want to do more. What if I did this and that?

why won't you let me be great? And then now I'm doing it at a place where one of the reporters, it was Dana Bash, I think, she was like, congratulations, welcome to CNN. Welcome to the fire hose. And she was not lying. Like...

They will have you in as many places as you can be. Yeah. Which, you know, there's a pro and a con to that. Like it might satisfy one part of your brain. It might satisfy your it or your ego. But just because you can be someplace doesn't mean you should. And I think one of the things I had to learn about when I finally had freedom was discernment. Oh, say it. Right. Right.

Freedom without discernment is chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos. But discernment is real. Like, when should I be offering analysis? What kind of analysis can I offer when I do? What's going to be helpful to the viewer, the listener? To me, I'm constantly thinking about what's the best way I can serve the audience, even if that might mean I'm not the voice that's

that's officially serving them. Do you know what I mean? Maybe I'm just helping in this case. Maybe I'm offstage. Maybe I'm doing this. Maybe I'm doing that. So I didn't even realize I learned that lesson until we said it. We built it together. We sure did. That's what I love about interviewing. Yes, yes. Well, and like hearing you talk about discernment and how to shape your career around that discernment,

There's also a thing that has to happen where you're exercising that discernment around yourself and self-preservation. You know, you have been covering current events and a lot of politics for a long time and through an era that seems like it's been a fire hose for all of us for years. I think of the last several years of my life, we went from a really crazy election in 16 to a turbulent presidency with Donald Trump to a pandemic and another turbulent election and insurrection and...

And it feels like things haven't stopped. I know. This is going to be a very auntie thing to say. Listen, let's go. I don't want to. I'm not ready to be an auntie, but I'm also ready to be an auntie. I feel like you spoke it. It's like when I was leaving college, there also was a contested election, right? Like, ask Al Gore. Like, when I—or when I was in high school, right? And then in college, it's like, you know, 9-11. Yeah.

Epic, destructive legacy that went on for years after shaping even our foreign policy today, right? And our skittishness around involvement in wider tensions of the Middle East, our skittishness around nation building and shoring up democracies. Such a funny term, shoring up democracies, LOL.

At the time was considered an aspiration, not a funny term. So the point is, at that time, it felt like things were bad and things were crazy and things were intense. And even when things are bad now, I actually sometimes have to fall back on my understanding of history and think about the civil rights era, you know, not just for my people, but for the country, you know, like political.

Political assassinations were happening. Assassinations. Multiple. Yeah. And across communities. That that was built into life at that time. And so things are dire. Things are very bad.

things have also been dire and bad before. And it's really been my own inquiry through my own show that I've learned that. You know, I was talking to this, like, classics translator, Emily Wilson, and she was, you know, talking to me about Homer, right?

And the stories of the Trojan Wars. Yeah, the world was ending for those people. It was bad. And they still had kids. They still had lovers. They still had fights. Like all those things have been helpful for me in a time when I, like you probably have felt a little bit lost and a little bit like, what am I doing this for? Yeah. Well, and I forget when I said this, who I said it to, but it's like,

The truth about the world is that the world is always ending. We are always hurtling towards something. Because we're the problem. Okay, Taylor. We're the problem. Okay, Taylor.

All right, I'll have two follow-ups. First, you mentioned your podcast. Tell our listeners what that podcast is. The podcast is called The Assignment with Audie Cornish. Yeah, yeah. And it's funny. I can never describe what it's about, but everyone who listens to it seems to have an idea of what it's about. But I came to it with the idea that everyone's an expert now, for better or worse. But what that means is as journalists, we should be willing to widen our net to

to talk to people who are at the center of stories. And there are people who we would leave in the anecdote of a story. And I realize now there are other people who are real experts. So like a pediatrician who actually offers gender affirming care is an expert in the controversy and crisis around it. Not the politician talking about it.

I mean, they've got a role to play. They do. But are they really at the heart of the story? Out of the expert, yeah. And that they're at the heart of the story in a different way than even that teenager might be. You and I have done many stories about people who have lost their lives in police shootings. But I hadn't heard about the people who lived after they survived a brutal traffic stop.

They're experts in something no one else knows about and about how to live afterwards and how to process some of the questions that the rest of us have. Should I watch this video? What hashtag this seat? Like they have a whole world of knowledge that like nobody was tapping.

And then in a way, it's become a rubric for understanding all our other guests, you know, even when we have a celebrity. I remember we were talking to Larry Wilmore. I love him. And he's great. But the reason why I like him is because he is everywhere. Yeah.

Yes. This is a thing people forget. Do they forget or do we just not call them? Yeah. Right? Because as reporters, we're like, oh, you don't have a hot project on right now? Like, we need to call this person that person. Yeah. But Quinta Brunson got on stage and said, thank you for my Emmy. Mm-hmm.

Larry Wilmore taught me how to write. And this is the thing. Larry Wilmore has been behind every black creative you love, whether you know it or not. He put Issa on. Mentoring them. Not just helping. Mentoring them. He put Issa on. He put Quinta on. Like, so many. And that's not a handshake. Yeah. Like, that's, hey, tell me, what was it? Okay, so when you talk to the show, all right, what did the produce? Okay, so what did the executives? Like, he does that work. Yep.

And I think for many people of many different minorities, if you reach a space where you're the only one in the space, it becomes it is quite difficult to understand who can support you as a mentor. And that person doesn't always look like you. You know, most of my mentors up until a certain amount of years looked nothing like me. But the act of mentoring, it's a real gift, right?

And he can do it. He can do it. But no one's going to talk to him about that just because the way our business works is very like, you have a project, let's talk about the project. Yes. It can be hard just to sit with someone and have a stem winder, you know. There we go. Speaking of mentors, one of the questions I wrote was,

was about you as a mentor. You know, we're friends, but I also consider you a mentor. And I can remember... Wait, really? Yes, I do. I'm going to cry. No way. Let it happen. You remember, I would do this thing where every few months, I would traipse down from the fourth floor to the third floor. Yes, you would. Without shoes on, just in my socks. And I'd be like, hey, you have a minute. Oh, my goodness.

And then I would bring you one little tiny big existential question like, what do I do with my career? And I would leave your office 15 minutes later, always 15 minutes because you have stuff to do. But I would feel lighter and I would feel like a question had been answered. Would I answer? Yes, you would. Would I really answer? Yes, you would. Here's where you can give a real Yelp review. What I loved about you was that like your door was always kind of open.

It was. It was always literally cracked. I feel very strongly about that. Why? Because when I was young and I looked for mentors, the people with cracked doors did often open the door and talk to me. You know, there's one person in particular, Ellen Weiss. Oh, Ellen. Yes. For many years. Of course. And when I was an intern, I knocked on her door and I said, hi, you don't know who I am, but I am in charge of the summer intern project and I have no idea how to make a radio show. How should I do it?

Wow. And she closed her doors and she sat down and took out a pen and paper and drew a roadmap and we made a show. Wow. And she didn't know me from a can of paint. Yeah. And I wasn't her intern and there was no nothing there. Yeah. And there is no better thing I can do than to do that for someone else. Mm-hmm. And I think our business is also strange because it is not clear what the path is. No. Often we're seeking jobs that don't exist yet. Yeah. Like you were coming down to my office but—

But your future was going to be a show with your own name on it, which was really unheard of. It didn't happen at that time. We were coming up. It didn't happen for a variety of reasons, cultural and not. At NPR, they didn't tend to want to put people's names on things. And that's where you landed. But you couldn't have known that in those months and years leading up to it. And so there is a kind of, I think, in the media business situation,

Sometimes you're in the dark. Yeah. And you get lost or you lose your compass. Yes. And I found that like at these legacy institutions, which are all changing rapidly right now because the industry is making them change. There was always this feeling of like, all right, you show up, you try hard and you're at point A and there's a point Z. But something magical will have to happen to get you to point Z.

Someone from on high will say you're the one. Some magical thing will happen. Some disaster will fall in your lap. But it always felt like there had to be a little bit of magic to get there. Yeah, opportunity meets. Yeah, and I am trying to think about how for the next pack of journalists coming up, God bless them.

But it's like, how can we take this idea of like necessary magic out of it and just say, here's how to work. Here's how to hold on to who you are. And here's how to think about a career holistically. Because I spent years like waiting for magic and thinking about magic. And it's like, girl, it's a job. It's a job, right? Like you want to do good. You want to make good stuff. But like it's a job.

And, like, letting go of this idea of magic helped a lot for me. That's true. I mean, look, magic is, there's a part of our ego that likes the idea that, like, well, I have that certain je ne sais quoi, and so, therefore, maybe I am the one, you know, instead of, like, well, this new boss came, and they went to the same school as you, and maybe you're Southern and they're Southern, or whatever it is. Yeah. I mean, I'm learning that in cable news right now. You know, you're kind of one boss away from being not cool anymore. Yeah.

Damn. Damn. It's true. It's true, you know, and I'm a little bit risk averse. And so I was always scared to come into television. But to your point, I think that there is this generation, again, something I'm learning from talking to people. Yeah. They will have different expectations. And so they're not going to struggle the way you did.

So you and I came up in an era with a certain set of expectations. Yes. And as those things were changing, part of our struggle was to change with it, you know, to really like catch those lily pads and understand that that change was happening. But for them, they already feel different. So they're more entrepreneurial than we are because they didn't have a choice.

They're far more questioning of cultural norms than we are. We were rules followers. And they are less deferential to institutions, which I appreciate. Which you should appreciate because you were the same way. I mean, quiet as it's kept. You were constantly like, but why can't I have blah, blah, blah? Yeah, you're right. You were constantly wanting more. And I remember towards the end, you were like,

But what about, I'm like, brother, your name is on the show. I remember that. They've actually run out of things to give you. Yeah, because I came out mad about something. Yeah. Exactly. I was like, well, what, what, what? And you were like, Sam, look at your situation. You have your own show with your name on it and your face on it. And they let you talk about whatever you want.

Well, you know what it is? I had to learn that the things that serve you coming up don't always serve you once you're there. There you go. So it's another whole set of skills you have to learn to manage success. Yes. And to manage it in a way that you can not only sustain it, but that you can bring in others. There you go. That's what I want. I love that. Talking about this and mentoring and the next generation,

I wonder, because I think about it myself, do you feel an extra pressure to be a mentor because you're a woman in a very still male space, because you're a black person in a still very white space? I would say that I want to feel like that's a pressure, but I don't, which must mean I feel called to it. And one thing that happened after I left NPR that I didn't talk about

publicly. I'm just going to talk about it with you. Let's go. I was shocked at how many people reached out to me to say what you said, to say, you really helped me. One time I came to your office, dot, dot, dot. Because all those conversations, you know, it was a kind of pointillism. Like, to me, each one of those was a discrete point, conversation, relationship with that person that didn't leave that moment. I was not sharing it with other people.

I was not officially being like, I am mentoring you. You know, like, it just wasn't that. It was like, oh, I got to make sure this person doesn't fail because I know what it's like. It was just a very, almost like, mentoring myself over and over again. And so,

And so I was shocked when there was just this number of people who said it out loud, who were like, oh, no, no, you helped me. And they weren't just black people. They weren't just black women. And that also felt like adding to the legacy of the person who had helped me. And now sometimes when people ask me to meet or advice, you know, I don't meet as directly with people anymore. I often...

direct them to someone else that I know. Like, you're gonna get a call one day from someone who says, Audie said to call Sam. Okay. I'll answer. Like, that's the hope. Yeah, that's the hope. If I did my job right, you'll answer because you'll feel called to do it as well.

I love that. And I think people don't realize they can do this in all kinds of jobs. You don't need to be doing a job where you're like public facing or a performer. Yeah. Not to reach a handout to someone who is coming up in your business. Yeah. And how that is a way of developing your own skills too. Yeah. Like those are valuable skills. And it's not rocket science. I mean, really what mentorship is doing is saying, I know the lay of the land in this place.

Probably a little more than you because I've been here longer. Let me show you the map that I've written out for myself. May work for you, may not. But here's the map that I've written. That's it. And it's also about listening. Yeah. It's really about listening, right? Like you had to lay out to me everything you were feeling for me to turn around and repeat it to you and say, okay, so just so we're clear. Yeah. Yes. You said you have this, this, and that, and your trouble is blahs.

So maybe you only have one trouble, not four, you know? And I think that you just have a bigger frame. You want to help them do their own detective work about where they are and where they could go. Look at this. Okay, mentorship 101 with Adi Cornish. Don't tell anyone I have all these thoughts. I love these thoughts. I don't know why I have thoughts about it. I love these thoughts. All right, going to take a quick break, but don't go anywhere. I'll be right back with Adi Cornish real soon.

Hey, listeners, hope you're enjoying the conversation. Taking a quick break right now to thank Ulta Beauty for presenting this episode of Hey Sis.

You know, in an industry where beauty is defined by standards, Ulta Beauty is on a mission to change that by encouraging individuality, authenticity, and highlighting brands that do the same. That's why Ulta Beauty is celebrating Black-owned and founded brands this month and every month, like Bevel, which I use. You may have heard of them. They make specialty shaving and skincare products for Black men's skin. They help you fight the razor bump, and that is a struggle that is so real.

I love bevel and Ulta gives that to me. Head to your local Ulta beauty store or visit Ulta.com to shop your favorite black owned and founded brands. All right, we're back and jumping right back into this conversation with Audie Cornish. I want us to pivot because I can't let you get out of here without asking you a few questions about politics because I remember hearing your stories. I think I was still like a Crockfellow.

and you were covering Congress. Because I was just starting to anchor and host then too. Yeah, it was all happening. I just remember hearing your stories from the Hill and like imagining you with your microphone, just running up and down that Capitol Hill, getting it done. And I was just like, that feels cool. And so like you've been covering politics for a long time, long story short.

What is your guiding mission statement for thinking about politics and covering politics in the year of our Beyonce 2024? Because it's going to be a weird year.

It's going to be a weird year. It's been a weird year for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. We're still in 2020. 2020. It's never ended. The fourth sequel. That's a good question. You're catching me at a moment where I believe in a couple things. Full transparency. Yeah. I believe that I'm not the voice of God. That the story I'm telling you today is a snapshot based on information that I have searched for, vetted, and

and I'm presenting to you, it's not the official answer. And if it is the official answer, you're going to get multiple sourcing to understand why it is. And lastly, I am willing to own up to mistakes, so to speak, meaning I don't look at my past work and say, well, I really solved that.

here's what we do going forward. I can be like, hey, this is what it was like then. Here's how I'm thinking about it differently. And so let's get into it. Let's talk. That's how I approach the work now. But it's really hard. It's hard. I mean, how do you think about it? Do you ever think about if you were back on the trail, so to speak, what you would want to do differently? Yeah. So I was on the trail, listeners, in 2016.

And the way I got on the trail, when I got the political reporting job for the campaign season, they were like, you'll cover internet culture and politics. And they kind of were like, it's a desk job. So I get there and I'm at my desk for a few weeks and I'm like, Tamara's out there. Mara's out there. Gandhi is out there. I want to go outside. And I would never forget that.

They were like, oh, there's a guy, Bernie's doing some stuff. Go cover him for a little bit. And they thought I would have like one or two rallies before he dropped out. And he just stayed in it. And then they let me cover him and then cover Hillary and then cover Trump all the way towards the end of the election. But by the end of my time, like on the trail following these candidates, I was like, I don't know. Do we need 20 people on the bus? This is like the campaign bus or the campaign plane following the candidate. I know the bus and the plane has changed altogether, but.

But what I think now is like if I were on the trail today, what would be the ratio from these newsrooms of beat trail reporters and investigative reporters or campaign finance reporters or reporters who just are like living in a state or a county to embed with voters for an entire election season?

It felt like so much of 2016 was a PAC mentality. We're following Trump. He's here. He's saying this. We're following this. And it's like the following. I mean, look, it's always been a PAC. That's why people talk about the boys on the bus. Like ever since candidates started to being like, what if I take the train? Right. Then like.

People were like, okay, can I get on that train? Yes. And then they started talking and then they have drinks and now you're doing group reporting. Like, I can understand it. Now, let me break down what you're saying a little more, though. Who's going to pay for that investigative reporting, Sam Sanders? Not the finger in the air.

I'm just saying. You're right. You're right. Because you're gesturing about the reality, but you're not living in the reality when you say that answer, which is like, who is going to pay for that? And who's going to read it? And when you're not producing stories, what's going to be in the paper? What's going to be on air while you are in the bar asking people how they feel? No, it's true. So...

There has always been that push-pull between the demands of the day, air quotes, and the long-term understanding of something. So to your point, yes, I think any newsroom that's covering these elections, you have people who do their horse-racy things, and then you have someone who's out of that altogether.

And interestingly enough, CNN is doing that this year with John King, right? Like he was sitting behind a desk at Inside Politics and now all he does is talk to voters and is out in the world and is doing what you're saying. He's not on the bus. And so that's sort of interesting because he has a long experience behind him. So it's not sending out someone green because that's another thing. You might have someone on the bus who's

But if they're 22 with no apartment and their job is to relay quotes that might be different from one day to the next, you're not exactly getting a rich reporting experience out of that. There's a little bit of CYA to that, you know, just making sure someone's there to be there. And in the age of social media, it's a little bit like, why? You know, there's so much that you can end up seeing of the candidate themselves, like in things they say publicly. Yeah, yeah.

You are in charge of a political reporting section for this year. You have unlimited budget. My God. What is the biggest thing you do different from what everyone else is doing? This is your fanfic today. I know. I love a hypothetical. We love a hypo. Fan fiction. Audie Cornish, editor-in-chief. What is her stamp on political coverage this year as a decider on how to cover?

Huh. You know, we've been thinking on our team a lot about—we were just talking about this today, actually, with my producer, Dan Bloom. Shout out to Dan. Hey, Dan. About certain fault lines. So the idea of male voters moving in a direction away from what female voters are doing, the diploma divide—

That's affecting both parties. There are these fault lines. You see them in the moment over the war that Israel's prosecuting in Gaza. Like, that lays it bare, the generational stuff, how people think about our place in the world. It has divided Democrats so severely. It has. And though we don't talk about it very much, rebuttals.

Republicans, there's no clarity there on what they consider a war worth fighting or being involved in or supporting or not. Yeah. There's certain ones that there's a little bit of foot dragging like, I mean, Ukraine, what?

what are they really going to do with the money? And then other things that they're like, no, no, we're definitely in on this one. Well, what about this one over here? Well, it's America first. Like, I feel like, and maybe again, whenever we start in journalism, I think that affects our lens, um,

Coming from a post 9-11 perspective, I still see us being unclear as to what the U.S. role in the world should be. Yes. Well, and it gets to this larger idea that I have to always tell myself, especially when thinking about politics and voters and how they'll behave.

Voters aren't rational because people aren't rational. People pretend to be rational. They're emotional. People are emotional. All of us are. And so we exist in contradiction whether we say it or not. And if anyone says that they have a complete and clear logic to how they do politics and how they do life, it's not true. We're just bundles of conflicting ideas. And like how can I talk about politics in that way? That's the challenge for me right now.

That's a good question. I think I have learned, like you, and I think this is reflected in your experience, not to underestimate voters' intelligence. And I know that is hard to do in an age where we are not infrequently calling each other stupid for who we support politically. And I try not to be a part of that. I like that. I think there are a lot of people listening to this conversation who listen to your show, right?

I should hope so. I listened to Vibe Check. The assignment with Audie Cornish. Thank you. I understood the assignment, which makes you laugh every time. But I think a lot of people are concerned about politics and want to be good citizens this election year. But they're also fatigued. You know, keeping your head in the game during all the stuff. It's tiring sometimes.

What do you think of when you think of speaking to those citizens who are concerned but tired, who are wanting to be engaged but a little bit confused? What is your North Star in guiding you and talking to them? It's funny. My North Star as a voter versus my North Star as a reporter are actually slightly different. Tell me. I rarely talk about mine as a voter, but I'll say this. Okay. I think of it in questions of how do I want to live? Okay.

not what has someone done for me. And I learned from multiple campaigns and the Barack Obama campaign was an interesting moment because voters, they were really like, I did that. We did that, America. We did it. Fixed it.

Remember when he won? Was it when he won Iowa? The kids were like, race doesn't matter. Race doesn't matter. In fairness, he offered them that, right? It was like, I have relatives that have also grabbed their purses and I still talk to them. And it was like, you know what?

Let me vote for this guy. He seems great. Yeah, why not? All politics is personal. Yeah, right? He wasn't like, it's the system, which is what a lot of progressive candidates, that's the path they take, right? Because it's, you know, different political theory. But my point is that your work isn't done. And as long as you think that casting the vote is the end of politics,

of it, you're going to feel disappointed that being a citizen is actually an ongoing relationship with your country where you are the check and balance. And I think people don't understand that if you don't do it, someone else will do it.

Right. There's another voter who will go. Who might not see things your way. Who make themselves the priority. And I know that's hard in a moment when people are like, you know, they're frustrated with the popular vote versus the electoral college versus this versus that. But I just think people need to know that you're always going to be dissatisfied if you think it's something that can be solved quickly.

There you go. There you go. Well, it's like I always hear people say, this is the most important election of our lives. Everyone is. Every election is important. But they're important in different ways. You know, what's different sometimes are the stakes.

It's like, how high do the stakes feel? And we've now, I think, this will seem like a detour, but it's not, I promise. I'll be very fast. When you think about those voters in South Carolina who turned things around for Joe Biden in 2020, a lot of them in particular were kind of like older and people talked about their pragmatism.

because they understood that one vote is never enough. They literally lived through the civil rights movement. They lived through all of that and Obama. And they weren't like, child, I've done it all. I'm going to sit down. You know what I mean? They weren't like, I guess the young folks will take care of it. They were like,

Here we go again. I guess we need to take care of this. And I think that that sense that like sometimes I hear people feeling fatalist and cynical about the fact of that. Yeah. But that is life. It's pushing the boulder up the hill. I'm sorry. It is like they told us. They told you that that's what it is. That's what it is. All right. So then.

How does Adi the person, not the journalist, not the person we see on TV, you know, in the midst of this work that we say is ongoing, how do you just like take care of you? What is your thing right now? You know, I hate to be a cliche, but it is my kids. I love it. How old are your kids now? My kids, they're both under the age of six. I remember your baby shower at the office years ago. Oh my God. Yeah.

You had a DJ. You remember that? You had a DJ. DJ Bobby. DJ Bobby, we love. I had not just any DJ. Yes. Bobby Carter. The king of the tiny desk. The godfather of the tiny desk. Yes. It was a party. I can't even talk about it. Well, first of all, it's hard to be cynical because they're there. So you can't just kind of look at them and being like, it's kind of such to be you. It's hot out there. You know what I mean? Like that doesn't work.

Yeah.

Which is right now, folks. Not some other time like I talked about earlier. That's right now. Parents in places are doing nothing if at the end of the day holding their child across what feels like a chasm to say help, you know. And that helps me, you

You know, like, yeah, there's lots of other stuff I'm supposed to be doing, exercising, eating right, probably meditating. It's never worked for me. Don't at me. I know you listen to some podcast that tells you to meditate. I can't pull it off. But you walk in the door and it's just like, mommy, draw with me.

And I just have a rule. I get down on the floor and I do it immediately. I don't say no to them when it comes to mommy be with me. Yeah. Because that's what they're going to remember. They don't give any ish that I'm on TV, period. I can't stress that enough. And they don't even know me as a person who's ever been on the radio. Yeah.

nor do they really know what a radio is. Oh, Lord. They're new to the earth. Okay. You came into existence during the pandemic.

Yeah. You have on-demand everything. Everything. The rare times I play TV for them and a commercial comes on, they run screaming from the room. They're like, what is this? And I'm like, I've been there, first of all. I see you. I hear you. Yeah. And I know that feeling. Yeah. Ride it out. It's called a commercial. Ride it out. Yeah. So their whole world is so different from mine already. You know, one of my sons was talking about playing in a playground and they were playing presidents. Yeah.

And he got to play Obama. And I'm not even mad at it. Come on. I'm just like, you know what? Look at us. Look at us. Paul Rudd voice. I know it sounds silly. You know, I know it sounds silly. The other one's really into Black Panther. It's silly, but I appreciate it. And things that feel unimaginable are still possible, good and bad. And so you have to decide.

Do you want the things you've imagined for your world to come true and who can help you do that? That's how you have to think about, I think, moving your way in the world politically. I love that. Who's aligned with helping to create that vision? Whose vision do you believe in? I think that's meaningful. And there are some people operating that way right now.

There you go. When in doubt, do it for the kids. Adi Cornish. I know it sounds silly. No, I love it. Understand there's a future. Yes. Don't decide there's no future. It's not just this. There's more. That feels fair to me. It does not feel fair to me to say things end with me because, God, it just really sucks. That doesn't feel good.

And I'm a deeply cynical person. So trust me, if I could, I would believe that. But I can't. I love it. Adi, it feels like I'm back in your office pushing in that door that's cracked open. With me saying, Sam, your career is going great. Sam, people are loving you on your show. Sam, stay who you are because they're letting you do it and it's the biggest gift in the world. Yeah, you haven't changed.

I want to end every interview like this. Thank you, friend, for being a mentor to me and so many others and for doing the work. Listeners, check out Adi's show. It's called The Assignment with Adi Cornish.

She's also on your TVs, too. So look for her there. It's called CNN. It's called CNN. I know the youngs don't. I know, because they've been seeing the TikTok clips. They see the TikToks. They see the TikToks. Catch us in your TikTok clips, children.

Listeners, thank you so much for checking out this week's episode of Vibe Check. If you love the show, and we hope you do, and want to support us, please make sure to follow Vibe Check on your favorite podcast listening platform. Subscribe on Apple Podcasts and also leave us a review. But most importantly, tell a friend IRL in real life. All right. Huge thank you to our producer, Chantel Holder, engineer Sam Kiefer, and Marcus Holm for our theme music and sound design.

Also, special thanks to our executive producers, Nora Ritchie at Stitcher and Brandon Sharp from Agenda Management and Production. And special thanks to Wesley the Dog for the new sound effects. You probably heard his chain rattling a little bit as I read these credits.

All right, listeners, we want to hear from you and your dogs, too. Don't forget, you can email us at any time. Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com. Vibecheck at Stitcher dot com. And also stay in touch with us on Instagram. I'm at Sam Sanders. Zach is at Zach Staff. Saeed is at The Ferocity. If you post about us, use the hashtag VibecheckPod. And stay tuned for our regular episode this Wednesday. All right. Bye. Bye.

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