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The trial of Ryan Duke is coming to a close, and the verdict could be just days away. In this episode, you'll hear from witnesses that corroborate the Ryan Duke defense. You'll also hear from Ryan Duke himself. As a warning, some of the audio you'll hear is of graphic content. Listener discretion is advised. Here's Nina.
We had a few witnesses on Monday morning, including Romy Franco from the University of North Texas. She confirmed that the bones found, these small fragments, they were human, but could not be identified to a specific person. Well, due to the low-level amount of data that was obtained and just the poor quality of the data, it didn't meet our criteria or thresholds for being able to report any profile. Therefore, the data was deemed inconclusive and no results were reported.
So to be clear, is there any way for us to know if the bones that we've actually looked at belong to one single person, a specific person? It is not. Well because the DNA looked to be very degraded and just low level and the fact that it was described as being burned or charred, I would think that that had a lot of factors that caused the DNA to become damaged.
After more than a week in court and more than two dozen witnesses, the prosecution rests its case. I'm saying rest, all right?
Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr. Rigby. Ladies and gentlemen, the state, as you heard, has rested their case, which means they've presented all the evidence they desire for you to hear, and what we know is their case in chief. The state wants the focus to be on two things, Ryan's confession and the latex glove found in Tara's yard on Monday morning. The state was not able to present any evidence that proved Ryan was ever in Tara's house,
or that Tara's house was a crime scene. Once the prosecution rests, Ryan's attorney Ashley Merchant will ask the judge for a directed verdict based on a lack of evidence. A directed verdict is her asking that the judge rule that the state has not met its burden of proof and the case should be dismissed. Judge, we are moving for a directed verdict.
pursuant to OCGA 17-9-1B, as our strongest argument, the law requires in this case that there be corroboration of any statement by the defendant. This is different than the corroboration requirement for statutory rape, for terroristic threats. This is a much stronger corroboration requirement.
A confession alone is insufficient to support a verdict and to authorize a conviction based upon a confession there's got to be corroboration. So they have to prove the death actually happened by homicide. So there's accidental natural causes homicide. There's got to be corroboration other than the statement of the defendant to prove cause of death.
Proof that this crime actually occurred is required, and the proof must be independent of the confession beyond a reasonable doubt. Judge Reinhart listens, and J.D. Hart argues against it, but Merchant is not successful, and the trial will continue. Hope you got the message. Your motion for directed verdict is timely made, overruled, and preserved for the record, okay? This means that it's time for the defense to present witnesses on Ryan's behalf.
After days of hearing from cops, GBI agents, and technical experts, they need to build some reasonable doubt in this case. In the afternoon, we hear from a psychologist, Dr. Talitsky. He's the one who assessed Ryan for the defense.
We also hear from two of Ryan's neighbors, a John Harper and a Mr. Olmsted. Their testimony conflicts with the state's narrative that Tara's car was at her residence Sunday morning. Here's Mr. Olmsted. Did you tell the GBI in 2006 and 2008 that you took your dog out for a walk late in the evening on Saturday, October 22nd? Yes, sir. I walked him that night. About what time was that?
It was late. I was about to go to bed, so it was probably around 11, midnight. Did you see Ms. Grinshead's car parked at her house that night when you walked your dog? No, sir. The car was not there. And you're certain the car was not there that night when you walked your dog?
Yeah, I'm certain. The next morning, Sunday, October 24th, 2005, did you take your dog outside when you woke up? Mm-hmm. Was Ms. Grinset's car parked at her house at that point? I do not recall seeing it. I don't believe it was there at that time. At some point later that day, did you leave your house? Yes, sir. Went to Fitzgerald to get something to eat, probably late in the evening, 5, 6 o'clock.
It was about dusk, it sounds like. Yes, sir. Was Ms. Grinset's car back under her carport at that time? Yes, sir. The car was back. Earlier that day when you were walking your dog, her car was not there, but it was back under her carport when you returned that evening? Yes, sir. Did you see anyone return the car? No, sir.
And this is John Harper's recollection of that Sunday morning. What time did you leave approximately your house that morning? The morning I left around 8 or 9 o'clock and went to G&G, the store, right down the road. When you left your house, was Ms. Grinstead's car parked at her house at that point? I didn't see it that morning. At some point later that day, did you leave your house again? Yes. About what time did you get back to your house that Sunday afternoon?
I would say it was just before dark, because I remember it was starting to get dark outside. And when you returned, was Ms. Grinstead's car back under a carport at that time? Yes, it was. So Ms. Grinstead's car was not at her house earlier in that day, but it was back there Sunday afternoon and evening? Yes. I'm going to allow that. I'll have you roll that, Chris.
Listeners, if Harper and Olmsted's testimony is true, if her sporty white car was not at her home all day on Sunday, then we have a major missing piece to the narrative of Tara's last days. Toward the end of the day, we heard from a man who may have been the most amazing witness I have ever heard in a trial, Jerry Williams. Mr. Williams is in a long-term relationship with Ryan's Aunt Linda, or as Jerry said, we ain't married.
Listeners, if you have a chance to get on YouTube and watch his full testimony, I highly recommend it. You won't be disappointed. You see, Jerry owned the trailer where Bo and Ryan lived in October of 2005. And after several complaints from neighbors, Jerry went to evict Bo and Ryan on the evening of Saturday, October 22nd. And
Yeah.
Because of the complaints. Okay. And the noise. And I just, it was time for them to go. I'll just leave it at that. It was time for them to go. It was time for all of them to go. Stephen was asleep in the back. I didn't get to talk to him. When I walked in the trailer, Bo was standing there in the kitchen and Ben was sitting on the sofa. Ryan was in the bathroom, passed out. I did make sure he was breathing.
This boy was passed out. I've seen him passed out before. I've done it myself. Sorry, but I have. But I've seen him passed out before. He was gone. He was done. He was laying in the floor. His face was facing the toilet, the base of the toilet, and he was gone. I mean, he was just dead. It looked like he threw up a little bit right there before. So I picked him up by his belt like my brother had done before and dropped him a little bit. He groaned.
But I went back up there. I turned the radio off. I'm sorry, radio was on when I came in there. I turned it off and I asked for Bo and I asked Ben to leave, which Bo kind of bowed up at me a little bit, but he didn't want to bow too much. But he did. He kind of bowed up at me a little bit like he didn't like that too much. But I asked him to leave. I asked both of them to leave right then and not to come back. I said, don't let me catch you back over here. And that was it. They walked out. I walked out. They walked out.
I don't know if it was a black truck. I think it was Ben's truck. I think he had a black truck. And they got in the truck and they left. - Do you remember about what time that was? - That was about 10:30 or 11:00, somewhere in there. - And you saw Beau and Ben both leave together? - Yes. - Overruled out objections. - Yeah, they were, yeah, they were leaving. - When they left, was Beau angry?
Yeah, he's a little mad at me, but no big deal. I can have one. I'm a big boy. Did you see Ryan leave with Beth? No. Was he still back? Ryan wasn't leaving with nobody. Ryan was back there in the back pass out. Ryan's Aunt Linda will also take the stand where she is loudly questioned by Brad Rigby.
Jerry and Linda may be the only witnesses who can confirm the whereabouts of Bo and Ryan on the night that Tara went missing. There are no witnesses who can confirm where Bo and Ben went after leaving the trailer that night. All we know is that they left in a truck. I'm going to Mexico City, and it's going to be an awesome vacation. All thanks to Viator.
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Tuesday morning starts with Tara's best friend, Maria Woods. But the star of our day was the defendant, Ryan Duke. All right, next witness, please. All right, good morning, sir. Before you're seated, please give your attention to Mr. Gibbs. He'll swear you in and direct your testimony. Mr. Duke, you swear the testimony you're going to give today will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. I do. Please be seated. Please be seated, sir.
Ryan Alexander Duke. The defense pulled no punches when they called the defendant in this case. Mr. Duke, did you murder Tara Grinstead? I did not. Did you break into her home on October 22nd or 23rd, 2005? No, sir, I did not. Have you ever been inside her home at any point in your life? No, sir, I haven't.
Did you ever have a sexual relationship with Ms. Grinstead? I did not. Did you ever strike Ms. Grinstead? No, sir, I did not. Did you ever choke Ms. Grinstead? No, sir, I've never choked anyone. Have you ever been inside Ms. Grinstead's car? No, sir, I have not.
Did you ever take a pair of gloves or a glove to Ms. Grinstead's home? No, sir. I did not. Did you see Ms. Grinstead's body after she died? I did. Where did you see it? In the pecan orchard. Did somebody take you to the body? They did. Who took you to the body? Bo Dukes. Bo Dukes tell you that he killed Tara Grinstead? He did. Do you know how Ms. Grinstead died? I do not. Were you asked to help dispose of her body? I was. Who asked you to do that?
Bo Dukes. Did you help Bo Dukes move Ms. Grinstead's body in the orchard? I did. Were you afraid that he'd hurt you or your family if you told anyone about it? I was. Is that why you didn't come forward prior to February of 2017? Yes, sir. Then there was a pivot to questions about his childhood, how his parents split when he was a toddler. Ryan lived with his grandparents until he was a tween. Then it was back to dividing time between his folks.
In his time at Irwin County High School, he had many friends, but he didn't start hanging around Bo Duke until senior year. He would call scenes. He'd just show out just to kind of make anybody, you know, to make a scene, to make other people uncomfortable. Was he considered a trustworthy person? No. Did he ever say things that were weird or out of the ordinary, maybe dark things? Yes, he did.
They do that with some frequency? Yes. You know anything about Bo's family? I do. Is his family well known in the Osceola area? Yes, sir. I think everybody knows him. Did you know his grandpa? I didn't personally.
Were you aware of his grandpa's occupation? Yes, he was a state senator for 20-plus years, I think. Were you aware of any significant legislation or other political acts that he accomplished during his tenure? He got funding to start the GBI. He got funding for the tech school. When college didn't work out for Ryan, he enlisted in the Army and found himself at Fort Benning. He made it through basic training and came home that year for Christmas and New Year's.
When he returned to base, it was time for jump school, airborne training. There was a tragedy on base, a girl in another unit, an 18-year-old. Her chute failed and she panicked and died. This incident had Ryan scared. He didn't want to be in the airborne unit anymore. It shook him up really bad. This incident led to him going AWOL, which is absent without leave from the military. It's against the law.
A few weeks after going AWOL, he contacted the Army and they told him to report to Fort Sill in Oklahoma. Ryan boarded a Greyhound and reported as instructed. Eventually, he was given a discharge other than honorable. He did not appeal his discharge, saying it was the discharge he deserved. When he was released from Fort Sill, he returned to the area, living in a trailer with his father and brother. And this is the trailer owned by Jerry Williams, who we heard from earlier.
Ryan's dad took a job in Alabama, which left his adult sons in the trailer, just the two of them. Once your dad moved out, did you still hang out with Bo some? Yeah, it increased how much he'd come by. How often would you say you were seeing Bo during this time?
period? It started out just the weekends. Then he just kind of progressively moved in. Did he start staying the night at your trailer? Yes, sir. How often would you say that he slept over? I mean, did you say it became ultimately every night he was staying over? Yes, sir. It became, it started as
We'd hang out, be drinking or whatever, and he'd stay the night until, you know, he just kind of never left. Did Bo pay any rent? He did not. Did he pay any utilities? No, sir. Did Bo ever buy groceries for the trailer? No, sir. Did Bo have a job that you're aware of? No, sir. Did Bo ever have any money? No. How many bedrooms did this trailer have? Two.
And was this a single-watt or double-watt trailer? It was a single. It was a pretty small trailer. Yes, sir. Did your brother have a room in the trailer? He did. Did Bo have a room in the trailer? He did. Did you have a room in the trailer? I slept on the couch mostly. Why did Bo have a room, although he paid no bills, no rent, no utilities, why did he have a room but you were sleeping on the sofa?
I just, this is just where I slept. Did you feel like Bo was using you during this time period? Yes, sir, I did. Did Bo ever leave out any kind of reading materials in the trailer? He did. He'd leave pornographic material out, and I had to repeatedly ask him not to do that. Were these materials of a particular nature? I found them offensive. It was bondage. I don't know how to put it.
Did the magazines that you saw today depict violent sex acts? Yes, sir. How did you feel when you saw those magazines? It was gross. Did you ask Bo to stop leaving the magazines out? I did. At this point, Ryan had a job earning $500 or $600 a week. He worked five 12-hour shifts, seven in the morning until seven at night. Questioning leads Ryan to October 22, 2005.
He woke up around 5 p.m. He is keeping his sleep schedule attuned to his work schedule. And when he wakes up, Bo and their friend Ben are over at the trailer, and they're drinking tequila. I think they had started drinking. They was all kind of having a little get-together. There was football on the TV. What were they drinking? Tequila. Did you like tequila? No, sir, I do not.
How does tequila affect you personally? Usually it makes me sick. Would you have ever driven after drinking tequila? No, sir. Did you drink tequila with the rest of them? I did. They kind of, you know, come on, let's take some shots. You know, it was the first time I had seen Ben in a long time. Did you also drink some beer while you were drinking tequila? Yes, sir. Do you recall anybody else coming over to the trailer that evening? No, sir. How did you handle the tequila and the beer that night?
I got sick. Did you throw up? Yes, sir. What is the last thing that you remember happening on Saturday, October 22, 2005? I just remember us taking tequila shots, and the next day I know I'm out. Do you know approximately what time that night that you passed out? It had been 9, 10 o'clock. Where did you pass out at, if you remember? In the bathroom, hugging the toilet.
Do you remember anything else whatsoever about the night of Saturday, October 22nd, 2005 that you haven't already told the jury? No, sir, I do not. This is where Jerry found Ryan passed out that night. When Ryan wakes up on Sunday morning, he's still in the bathroom. He's still face down near the toilet. It's about 8.30 a.m., and Bo is waking him up. Let's talk about the next day, Sunday, October 23rd, 2005. Yes, sir.
Do you have a clear memory of waking up that morning? I was woke up. Bo woke me up. I was asleep on the floor. It was maybe 8, 8.30 in the morning. It was daylight. He looked panicked, freaked out. You know, he was pale, which is, you know, he was already pale and looked like he'd been up all night. His eyes bloodshot? Bloodshot. They were sunken. So did he generally look different than he normally did? Yes, sir, he did.
Upset, shaking almost, just, you know, until something was wrong. What did Bo Duke say to you when he woke you up that morning? He said he killed Tara. So what was your initial reaction when he said, I killed Tara? I didn't know who he was talking about or what he was talking about. And what did you say? What was your response? It was that, what, who, what, you know, just... Were you confused? Yes.
I asked him what he was talking about. I asked him who he was talking about. And what did Bo respond to that question? Yes, he said he killed Tara Grinstead. Were you alarmed at this point? Yes and no. I mean, it's Bo, so it's hard to... Did he make off-color jokes like this? Yes, sir, all the time. And what did you say to Bo once you got him to live? I asked him what was he talking about, what's going on.
How did Beau respond? He made the statement that he killed Tara again. He got out a wallet that had the driver's license in it. Did he have, when he got the wallet, excuse me, you said he got the wallet out. There was a purse sitting on the table. And do you remember anything specifically about the purse, the wallet? Yes, sir. I remember I could see the driver's license through the sleeve of the wallet.
And whose driver's license did that appear to be? It was Mr. Grinstead's. Were you alarmed at this point? No, I assumed he just stole the pocketbook or purse from somewhere. And did you say anything to him in response once you saw the purse and had the wallet? Yeah, I still didn't believe he had committed a murder. Did you tell him that? Yes, sir, I did.
Did you ultimately decide to take some kind of action? I did. I was going to return her purse. I'd say I'd assumed he had just stole it. So I went to the bedroom, asked Bo if I could borrow the keys.
He didn't answer me, so I just grabbed his keys and got in the truck. I drive towards Osceola. During his time on the stand, Ryan testified to when and why he made the 411 call to the home of Tara Grinstead on that Sunday morning. So where were you driving? You didn't know where Ms. Grinstead lived, so where were you driving? I knew it was in the area. That's when I
Saw the store. I thought I could just make a phone call. Try to call or get in contact with Ms. Grinstead to make sure she was all right or return her purse. You stopped at the Swanee Swifty store and did you use the payphone? Yes, sir, I did. About what time was it when you used the payphone? It was around 9.30. And did you try to call Ms. Grinstead? No, sir, I didn't have the number. I called 411 to get the phone number.
Did anybody answer? No, sir. Did you get the answering machine? No, sir. It said the call was not answered or disconnected. I was still wasn't, you know, I didn't think what happened had happened. You know, I was still kind of. At this point, did you believe that Bo had killed Tara Grinstead? No. What did you do next after you make the phone call?
I thought I knew the area around where Ms. Granstad lived, so I rode around a couple blocks, and I knew her car. I think most people would have recognized the little white sports car. And I said I rode by a couple houses or a couple blocks and didn't see the car. Remember, the two neighbors testified that Tara's car was not at her house at that time. He's not able to return Tara's purse because he can't find her house.
So Ryan returns to the trailer where Bo is waiting. Yes, sir. I went there and I grabbed his leg, shook him. He wasn't asleep. I asked him what he was talking about, tell me what's going on. And he told me he'd show me. That's when he gets dressed, comes out, tells me to come on. We get in the truck. You can tell something's wrong. You still don't know what, but something's off. He started driving fast.
Towards the orchard. I'm getting more and more worried. I can tell something's wrong, but I still think Bo's screwing with me. You know, he did that a lot. What happens next? We drive down the trail. He drove down a little further and there was a clearing off the passenger side and he stopped. Yes, he said, she's over there. I just remember seeing a spot of white.
Was the person laying on their back or their stomach? They were laying face down. Does Bo do anything once you approach within 10 feet or so? Yes, sir. He reaches down. He grabs her arm and just, like I say, he just reached down like you would open a cellar door and just, or crank a lawnmower, I guess. He looks at me and says, I told you. They were wearing clothes. She was wearing clothes. Were you able to identify who this was at that time? No, sir.
If he wouldn't have told me, I wouldn't have known who it was. Does Bo say or do anything else at this point? He starts walking back to the truck, tells me we got something to do. He starts putting wood in the back of the truck. What were you feeling? What were you thinking at this point? I was just in shock. You know, it's like I was separated from myself. He tells me to come on because, you know, I'm just, I don't know.
I'd say it was like I was watching myself. I was there, but I wasn't. How was Bo's demeanor at this point when you're back at the bottom? He was almost excited. You know, he was cheerful.
Listeners, being in the courtroom while Ryan Duke was testifying was quite the experience. The whole room was silent and people were hanging on his words. Now, Ryan did get emotional at times, especially when describing seeing Tara's remains at the pecan orchard.
At one point, a bailiff brought over a box of tissues, but Ryan didn't lose his composure, and he managed to get through some particularly dark and unsettling descriptions of things that happened at the orchard. He walked back over to the body. Does Bo do anything to the body? He tells me to help him pick her up. Did he touch the body or anything before? He did. What did he do? He pushed his upper shirt.
starts following her. Did he look at you when he did that? It was like I wasn't there. You know, I remember telling him to stop and I remember how he looked at me. You know, it's like I'd never seen him before. I can't describe it. I don't have the words to describe it. What happened next? He tells me, come on, we got to move her. I grab her by her feet and help pick her up.
Did Bo help pick her up as well? He did. Picked her up and placed her on the tailgate of the truck and was down. Placed her on the back of the truck. Mr. Gibbs, the soft-spoken defense attorney from Irwin County, he too became emotional during some of the darkest testimony Ryan offered in court. How did she look when you came over to her? She was beat up. She had bruises on her arms and legs.
I said I wouldn't recognize her. At the time you helped him pick her up, could you identify who she was at that point? No. How was her hair? It was over her face. So you put her on the tailgate of the truck, and what happened next? He tells me to get back in the truck. Did you get back in the truck? Yes, sir. And then what did the two of you do next? He drives back.
He drives further down into the orchard. It's basically the orchard ends, and he kind of does another U-turn and backs up into a clearing. That's when Bo starts to unload the wood. He told me to get out and help him. He started to kind of stack it, lay it out. That's when I figure out what he's thinking of burning. What happens next? What's your reaction at this point? I vomit.
I'm driving, I'm crying. Does Bo say anything? He starts laughing at me. Once the wood's stacked up, what do y'all do next? Bo tells me to help him put her on the wood. And did you help him? I did. Move the body? I did. And once you placed the body on the wood, what happened next? Back out, almost out of the clearing, kind of. You back out, like you mean you walked back out? Yeah, I...
Told Boa, I can't be here. You got to take me home. What happened next? He just started putting wood on top of her. And then what happened? He lit her on fire. What was his expression, his demeanor when that happened? It was like he wasn't there. Was this time when you helped move the body onto the pile of wood, was that the last time that you saw Mr. Ensted's body? It was. On the way home from the orchard, does Bo say anything to you?
He tells me you can't say anything, you can't talk about this. At any point did Bo tell you what happened to Ms. Grinstead? No, sir. Did you ask Bo what happened to Ms. Grinstead? No, sir. Why didn't you ask Bo what happened? I don't think I had to. When you get to the trailer, what do the two of you do? I get out of the truck before I'm really even out the way of the door. He starts backing out. Did Bo leave?
Yes, sir. He's spinning wheels. Ryan wouldn't see Bo for another week. And when Bo came by the trailer, it's to get Ryan outside so he can find out if Ryan has told anyone what happened. He had knocked on the door and stepped back. I guess so I'd come outside and talk to him. He asked if I was all right, if I'd said anything. And what was your response? He said, no, I'm not okay. Did you ever discuss Mr. Grinstead?
at any point after this? He'd bring it up. Bo would bring it up? Yes, sir. He'd remind me you can't say anything. You can't talk about this. Nobody will leave you anyway. Were you afraid of Bo? Yes, sir. Why? I don't know what Bo's capable of doing. Was there anything that he did other than things we've talked about previously that made you afraid? He just didn't know what he would do.
Then, Bo has a sad story for Ryan. He's been kicked out. He's got no place to go. Can he stay with him again? And for some reason, Ryan agrees and Bo returns to the Duke household.
In November of 2005, Bo hosts a party in the orchard. Did you talk to Garland a lot at the party? I did. I hadn't seen Garland in a while. We were friends. Did you say anything to him about Miss Grinstead or anything that happened at the orchard? No, sir. We were talking and just kind of catching up, and I don't know how it come up about Miss Grinstead. You know, she was missing, missing.
It's about the time Bo walked up. Do you recall if there were any other conversations after this with Bo about the disappearance of Prince? Yes, sir. Bo would tell me, you can't talk about it, you can't bring it up, but he was constantly doing that.
Do you know if he followed the case, like in the news? He did. He would be on the website or, you know, constantly if I went to work and come back and any update, you know, he kept an eye on it. You said the website. Do you know what website? Like it was Fine Terror. Did Bo have Ms. Grinstead as a teacher? He did. Did he ever make any comments about Ms. Grinstead specifically? He did. He made...
suggestive comments about her. After Ryan and his brother were evicted from the trailer, he and Bo moved into a house in Fitzgerald, just the two of them. This situation, Ryan paying the bills and supporting Bo, went on for months until Ryan just couldn't afford it anymore, and he moved back home with his mom and stepdad. He wouldn't see Bo Dukes again until after Bo completed his basic training. Bo stopped by the residence where Ryan was living. Did he make any kind of threats?
He implied that this place would go up like wildfire. It was kindling. And tell me about that statement. What was the context of that? I don't know if it was before, but Bo was the pyro. You know, he liked to set fires. He liked to, he would, I would come home from work and he'd be watching YouTube videos of fires. And when he said this place, did he...
Indicate what he was talking about. He was talking about my home. Then, we fast forward to the winter of 2017.
This is when Ryan hears from Bo again. Were you contacted by Bo Dukes after you initially spoke with Agent Chabelle and Agent Holland at your house? I was. How did you communicate with Mr. Dukes? I got a Facebook message from him that he wanted to talk to me on Messenger. He told me that the GBI talked to him, that he knew they wanted to talk to me and to keep his name out of it. Did you meet with the agents the next day? Yes, sir.
When did you decide that you were going to take the blame for Ms. Grinstead's death? Sometime before I left home. Why did you decide that you were going to take the blame for Ms. Grinstead's death? Because I don't think Beau will ever tell the truth. When you spoke to Agent Sheldell, did you know, or do you know today, how Ms. Grinstead actually died? I do not.
And listening to Ryan's testimony, emotions are high. Remember, even Mr. Gibbs choked up when he questioned Ryan. And as I'm listening to Ryan, I can't help but wonder, is this it? Is this the true story of what became of Tara Grinstead? After years of theories and rumors and speculation, is the testimony of Ryan Duke at his own trial going to be as close as we get to the truth?
I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah. Yeah.
No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.
Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. We have a lunch break, and after lunch, we have J.D. Hart for the prosecution. She is cross-examining Ryan. Specifically, your interview with Agent Shadel, you've told this jury that when you walked in there, you had already decided to lie to him, correct? Yes, ma'am. Mm-hmm.
So let's talk about what you're saying, the details you're saying you lied about. You didn't just tell them that you broke into her home. You told them that you were breaking into lots of people's houses, correct? Yes.
I told them that, yes. And you're now saying that that was a lie? Yes, ma'am. And Foduk certainly didn't tell you to come up with this idea that you were burglarizing a lot of houses, correct? Yes, ma'am. He didn't come up with that idea, correct? Yes, ma'am. So that was something you just added on your own? I'm not sure where that come from. Well, it came from your brain, right? I understand that. I just... Is that a yes? It came from your brain? Yes, ma'am. Obviously. Okay.
You told them that you broke, you told Agent Shadell that you broke into her house and that you were going through her purse, correct? Yes, ma'am. I told him that. You told him that. But now you're saying that that was a lie. Yes, ma'am. And again, Bo Dukes never told you to lie about stealing from her, correct? No, ma'am. So you made that up yourself? Yes, ma'am. You told Agent Shadell that you hit her, correct? Yes.
Yes, ma'am. I told him that. And you're now saying that was a lie? Yes, ma'am. And you've already told this jury that you're claiming you don't know how she died, correct? I don't. So you came up with an idea of how you think she may have died? Yes, ma'am. Again, that didn't come from Bo. That came from you, correct? Yes, ma'am. You've already told this jury that when you walked in the police department that morning, you were prepared to confess, correct? Correct.
I was prepared to take the blame for something I didn't do. So that's it. You were prepared to confess. Whether it's truthful or not, you were prepared to confess. Yes, ma'am. But the fact that you called her house that morning in fact shows that you were involved, right? No, ma'am. Okay. So then why did you feel the need to lie about not calling the house that morning? I'm not sure I was...
Thinking clearly at the time. Okay. But you had already said you went in there that morning knowing that you were going to lie. I knew I was going to take the blame for something I didn't do. Which you're saying is a lie, correct? Yes, ma'am. And when you went in that morning, you had already come up with what you were going to tell him about how it happened, correct? I still don't think I was ever sure. I still don't know what happened, so I don't...
Not talking about what you're saying the truth is. I'm talking about what you said when you walked in that morning. You'd already come up with a story about what you were going to tell Agent Shedell. No, ma'am. I'm not sure I had any story in my mind. Okay. Then on October 23rd of 2005...
You were at the orchard in Ben Hill County, correct? Yes, ma'am. And we can agree that on October 23rd of 2005, Tara Grinstead's dead body was in that same orchard? Yes, ma'am. And we can agree that you saw her dead body, correct? Yes, ma'am. We can agree that you touched her dead body? After I was told to pick her up. Yes, you touched her dead body. Yes, ma'am. We can agree that you helped move her dead body?
Yes, ma'am. We can agree that you helped Bo Dukes get the pecan wood to be able to burn her body. Yes, ma'am. We can agree that you were in the truck when you drove Tara Grinstead back to the place where she would be burned. I don't know if that's where he continued to burn her or not. I was only there that one time. You were only there that one time.
Yes, ma'am. I did. Yes, ma'am.
And you knew that on October 23rd of 2005? Yes, ma'am. And you knew that on October 24th of 2005? Yes, ma'am. And you knew that on October 25th of 2005? And every day after? That's right. Every day after. And you never told a soul? No, ma'am. Never went to the authorities, correct? No, ma'am. Never even went and posted something anonymous online about it?
No, ma'am. Never went to her family and told them what happened to her body? No, ma'am, I did not. And you knew that for every day from October 23rd of 2005 to February 22nd of 2017, they were looking for Tara Grinstead?
Yes, ma'am. And you knew that her family was suffering because they had no idea what happened to her. I think about that every day. But you didn't do anything about it, did you? I did not. And in fact, you never told anybody, correct? No, ma'am, because I was scared. You were scared. So what we can also agree on is that you're willing to lie when the stakes are high, correct? No, ma'am. You're not willing to lie when the stakes are high? No, ma'am. Well...
You're saying you lied to Agent Shadel, right? I'm talking about right now. I'm not talking about right now. I'm saying when the stakes are high, you're willing to lie. I'm trying to make that right. But you're still willing to lie, right? Not today. Not today. But you'd agree with me the stakes are high, right? Yes, ma'am, they are. You want this jury to believe that you lied and confessed to a murder you didn't commit because you were scared of Bo Dukes, right? Yes.
I lied and confessed because I did not think Bo would ever tell the truth about what happened, about what he did to her. But you confessed to her murder, right? I did. Ryan held up well under a grueling cross-examination. He admitted to and owned his lies, and there were several of them. It's nearly 3 o'clock when Ryan is released from the stand. Personally, I think he was a good witness, especially when facing an aggressive cross-examination from J.D. Hart.
At the end of the day, at the end of his testimony, I think Ryan was exhausted. He doesn't seem to be a particularly hearty or healthy guy, and his time on the stand took it out of him. Then, it's the moment that we've been waiting for, the one we've been looking forward to for years. If you followed this case, even casually,
"'You know who Bo Dukes is. "'You know a bit of his story, "'and you likely know some of the horrific things "'he's been accused of and found guilty of. "'We were on the edge of our seats in court "'when his name was called. "'Every head swiveled toward the entrance to the courtroom. "'Then he appeared in the doorway.'
And Bo Dukes is a large man. He's nearly 6'5" with graying black hair and a wide face. He's dressed in prison whites with shackles on his wrists and ankles. An armed guard has him by the back of the shirt and walks him to the stand. Bo Dukes' lawyer, a tiny blonde woman in a black suit, follows closely behind. Bo Dukes looks around the courtroom. His face is practically a leer as he takes everyone in.
He's given the oath and Ashley Merchant steps to the podium to question him. Beau's voice is loud and it fills the courtroom. Will you state your name for the record? On the advice of counsel, I'll be invoking my Fifth Amendment right not to provide testimony. How'd you get here today? On the advice of counsel, I'll be invoking my Fifth Amendment right not to provide testimony today. Mr. Duke, do you intend to invoke your Fifth Amendment right to every question? I do, Your Honor. Any reason to continue this? No, Judge.
you may cheat and just like that beau dukes is gone he was out of the courtroom within a minute of him pleading the fifth it's a huge letdown and there is a shift in the room when he leaves whatever we were hoping for we aren't going to get it the rest of the day is dotted with character witnesses ryan's old girlfriend and a female friend talk about what ryan was like how he was kind and peaceable
We get a bit of color commentary from Deon Smith, one of Ryan's high school friends. Ryan, um, Ryan was a good guy. Um, never in no trouble. Um, you know, just real dependent. Um, you know, somebody to depend on. Um, real, real quiet. Mild-tempered, you know, kept to himself. Um... Did you consider him to be a peaceful person? Yeah, very peaceful. Very peaceful. Bo was more...
At the end of the day, the court feels tired.
Ryan's testimony was at times graphic and it was emotionally draining. The impassioned and intense cross-examinations left me weary. My heart hurts not only for Tara, but for her father and sister who sat through the whole day, through every ugly word spoken in court. They absorbed so much and hopefully the jury did as well.
Joining me now, Nina Enstead. Nina, a not so busy day in court, but one of the final days of the court proceedings today. How did it go? It was a very interesting morning. We had closing arguments. For the defense, it was split between John and Ashley Merchant. John gave the first portion of the closing argument and Ashley gave the second portion.
And they said, look, there's no evidence. We have a glove, which isn't evidence of any crime. And we have a confession, which he got on the stand and explained to you that he was frightened and he was in fear. And he gave this false confession to protect his family. She talked about things that happened in Irwin County and things that happened in Ben Hill County, which is going to come up later. So put a pin in that.
And then for the prosecution, we had Brad Rigby. And my goodness, it was like an old-time gospel review in there. He was yelling. He was capering around the courtroom. He was whispering and being real quiet at points. And he had a picture of Tara put up for the jury and at one point even held up Tara's coat, which she was known to be wearing the last night that she was seen.
But it was a little intense in the courtroom when he gave his closing argument. And so now it's kind of left up to the jury. It is up to the jury. Yes. The case is with the jury. The jury now goes and deliberates for as long as they need to. At what point did they get basically sent to deliberate on this? It was essentially at lunchtime.
So 1230-ish. At five o'clock, the judge called them out of the jury room and asked how they were feeling and if they wanted to continue or if they wanted to wrap for the day. But before the judge called them out, at the end of the day, there were two questions from the jury and both regarded item six in the indictment and the term proper venue, right?
which takes us back to the Irwin County, Ben Hill County question that Ashley raised during her closing. So what do both those things kind of together mean to you? That they're looking at jury, they're looking at indictment item six, and they're looking at, did this happen in Irwin County? Did this happen in Ben Hill County? That would be my guess, although you never know what a jury is thinking. What is indictment item six?
Count six is they charge and accuse Ryan Alexander Duke with the offense of concealing the death of another for that said accused in the county of Irwin on or about the 23rd day of October 2005. So it seems as though they're really kind of dialed in on, at least for now, at least with that, dialed in on that aspect of things and maybe less so on the other stuff or maybe the other stuff is more clear?
Again, it's hard to say. It could be that the other charges were clearer. It could be that this sixth count, this concealing a body, was the clearest, so they decided to start there. But when the question came out to the judge about it, the judge turned to the lawyers and said, all right, how are we going to explain this to the jury in a way that doesn't influence them, in a way that doesn't confuse them? And there was some dialogue between J.D. Hart and Ashley Merchant about this,
We use this wording, we use that wording. And the judge ended up going with sort of a hybrid between what the two of them wanted.
Because, again, the judge doesn't want to influence the jury in any way. The judge is just there to make sure that proceedings go well. He does. He is not a decider. What's the timeline in your estimation of how much longer this goes in terms of the jury deliberation in terms of I mean, we can never really know if there's going to be any more questions that might come up or any anything else that might happen in the in the course of deliberating. But what's the timeline you sort of see for for how this for when we know the verdict?
The feeling in court seems to be that they'll have a verdict at some point tomorrow on Friday. It could go through to Monday and they could, I don't know that they will deliberate over the weekend. The judge may send them home for the weekend and ask them to come back Monday morning and deliberate. But again, the overwhelming vibe in the courtroom is that they'll come back with something tomorrow. If not tomorrow, could they come back on Saturday?
I don't think so. I don't think the judge would have them meet on Saturday. I could be wrong about that. Well, it's more to say they don't have a specific time limit. They can deliberate, say, tomorrow for as long as they want, as long as they're kind of up for it, right? They don't have to stop at like 5 o'clock or they don't have any kind of deadline they have to meet or anything like that. No, there's no limitations. I think the judge will ask them to take a lunch break.
And I think the judge will, like he did today, meet with them toward the end of the day and say, how are you feeling? Do you want to continue? Are you ready to call it a night? And the consensus seemed to be at the end of the day today that they were ready to call it a night. What is your sense? And I'm putting you on the spot a little bit. But what is your sense of how the jury will kind of how they will see this? What verdict will they will they come back with?
I think it's going to be a mixed verdict. I think he's going to be found guilty on some charges in Irwin County. There's the emphasis. And guilty on some and not guilty on others. And I think the location where the charges are alleged to have taken place will have an influence on that decision.
Well, whenever there is a verdict, we will obviously drop something relatively quickly, kind of a breaking news type of episode or segment for the Up and Vanish trial series. Nina, thank you so much for being down there covering for us. And hopefully this all wraps up tomorrow. That would be great. Thank you, Eric. Thank you. Thanks for listening to the Up and Vanish trial series, The Trial of Ryan Duke.
Tune in Tuesday as we cover the verdict and find out whether Ryan Duke will be found guilty or innocent of his charges. Don't forget to check out Payne's Weekly Recap on Friday, only on Tenderfoot+. Up and Vanish is produced by Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta with production support by Core TV. Created by Payne Lindsey. Executive Producer, Donald Albright. Produced by Thrasher Banks, Meredith Stedman, and Eric Quintana. Edited by Thrasher Banks. Hosting and field production by Nina Enstead.
Music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Sound design and mixing by Cooper Skinner. Original artwork by Trevor Eiler. Special thanks to Beth Hemphill, Julie Grant, and Phillip Holloway. Check out the discussion board at upandvantage.com. If you have any questions, leave us a voicemail at 770-545-6411. For ad-free listening and Payne's exclusive Friday recap episode, subscribe to TenorFoot Plus on Apple Podcasts or visit tenorfootplus.com.
I'm sending my brother money directly to his bank account in India because he's apparently too busy practicing his karaoke to go pick up cash. Thankfully, I can still send money his way. Direct to my bank account.
It's Madeline Barron from In the Dark.
I've spent the past four years investigating a crime. When you're driving down this road, I plan on killing somebody. A four-year investigation, hundreds of interviews, thousands of documents, all in an effort to see what the U.S. military has kept from the public for years. Did you think that a war crime had been committed? I don't have any opinion on that. Season three of In the Dark is available now, wherever you get your podcasts.