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Hopefully you're already familiar with our newest show, Up and Vanish Presents, Status Untraced. It topped the Apple Podcast charts at number one for a week. And previously, we've aired episodes one and two in this feed. And over the next few weeks, we'll be airing the remainder of the season, episodes three through 10. So if you haven't listened to the first two episodes, stop right now and search Status Untraced in your podcast app.
That's Status Untraced, a new show presented by Up and Vanished. Follow the show and listen to the entire season right now. And it's even ad-free for Tenderfoot Plus subscribers. Again, this is Up and Vanished presents Status Untraced, episode 3. Hope you enjoy the show.
You're listening to Status Untraced, a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Listener discretion is advised. Never seen you this giddy. Put this in your back pocket so you can just hand it to him. It's kind of funny how this comes full circle.
Alex suggested someone we should visit, someone he worked with in the past. So we took a drive up the Pacific Coast Highway from LA to Malibu. Nice to meet you. Our host welcomes us inside his bungalow home, a familiar place for Alex, who spent countless hours in this same living room.
piecing together another missing person case. — One interview into another, all the way through. — Alex knows, too, this is my day. Like, boom, boom, till 9 p.m. But then the rest of my week is, like, just empty. — This is Neil Strauss, a New York Times bestselling author and the host of the podcast To Live and Die in L.A. — All right, so let me go to my computer because I might want to read his— — Yeah, that'd be great. — While Neil has experience with true crime, that's not why we're here.
We're here because he knew Justin Alexander. So I ran a men's group called The Society. We have survival intensives where they learn how to evade interrogations and survive torture and escape from handcuffs. And Justin joined in 2012 and was just a really positive, interesting, connected guy. I really, really liked him. As we're chatting,
Neil grabs his laptop and pulls up a document he says he hasn't read since 2013. So yeah, so when someone joins the group, the first thing I do is I talk to them for half an hour and I see like who they are and what they're about. And I'll ask them a number of questions. And then I'll sort of read between the lines of what they say.
So his goal is he wanted to improve his confidence, learn to command a room in any situation, be generally happier and more awesome, and become the best person he can be in just about every arena, which is so Justin because he wants to do everything, right? The best in everything is a very ambitious goal. He also later said in five years he wants to be retired. Retired meaning traveling and not needing to make decisions based on money. Wanting to be single, collecting amazing stories, and doing cool stuff that he'll remember forever.
It's interesting that he puts that he wanted to be single, that that was like something that was important on there too. Yeah, like I remember him saying like, "I normally break up with someone when they ask me to marry them." You know, so he definitely was your classic avoidance. That I'll see where they're at in terms of their emotional state, anxiety, joy, depression, guilt. And what's interesting is with the positive emotions, super high. I asked about depression, guilt, anger on a scale of 1 to 10.
He said his was a zero. So right away, you know, there's somebody who's actually denying their emotional reality. That was the first, to me, sign that there's more going on underneath than even he's aware of. Which brings us back to your
original assessment of him in a way. Right. So this is what I wrote at the time and this is, I had not met him yet. We just talked on the phone for half an hour, which was interesting to look back on it when Alex contacted me. I wrote, "has turned himself into an awesome, adventurous, self-made guy. However, at some point, all this is going to blow up on him. And he's going to realize he may have taken his life in partly the wrong direction as a reaction to the way he was raised."
Definitely needs an inner work to the degree that his five-year goals actually change Otherwise, he will have an existential crisis in ten years also completely emotionally disconnected from himself Interesting that just to look back on and like it appears to be close to what happened almost gives me the chills to to read it Sometimes I get the feeling I'm lost Just hiding it is never enough
I'm Liam Luxen, and this is Status Untraced. Episode 3, The Legend You Live.
I don't fucking know what happened, but my feelings for what I know about Hashish and the area and what travelers do there, if he did get involved with some crooks, I am like 90% sure that it had to do with Hashish. You probably remember this voice from the last episode. This is Linda Burini, Justin Alexander's former romantic partner and first responder on his disappearance.
She's the one who told me about the mafia who lurk in the Parvati Valley and the dangers of dealing hashish. And I think the porter, the famous porter, yeah, I think that's a key element. As a reminder, there were only three people on Justin's trek. Justin, the baba, and a porter.
a guy hired to carry supplies. This porter's name is Anil Singh Kumar. He might be the only person from the hike that's still alive, but he's nearly impossible to find.
The names Anil and the surnames Singh and Kumar are extremely common in India. It's essentially the American equivalent of Matthew Johnson. And just as a point of interest, there are no white pages in India. We know little about Anil Kumar. He was hired by the Baba and like him, never reported Justin as missing. As far as I know, they don't know anything about the porter. I don't know if you were able to get some more information, but there was this porter and then there wasn't.
While Linda was the original point of contact, she never actually made it to India. At some point, I got pushed out of the equation and they wouldn't listen to me. I was a pain in the ass. I was a pain in the ass, I admit it. But it was a bunch of people that had never been to India. We really need to speak to someone who had boots on the ground, so I asked who I should reach out to for more answers. Did you talk to Jonathan? I recognized the name in connection with articles about Justin's disappearance.
He's reported as Jonathan Skeels, one of the two men who found Justin's belongings off the hiking trail. I know that everybody was trying their best. I know it. I know it in my heart, including Jonathan, you know. But it also seemed very detached, you know, like people cared for a couple of months. And then, you know, the thing froze over and then that was it.
- Well, thank you for being willing to talk about it. I know it's a lot. - I want to find out what happened. If somebody figures out what happened, I will help 100%. - While the offer for help is reassuring, this is the last I hear from Linda. I don't hold it against her. I come to find that's just how this group of people around Justin operate, spontaneous, constantly on the move, and rarely checking their inboxes.
I learned this the hard way. After Linda, I attempted to speak with everyone involved in the search for Justin, and it wasn't easy. While I did land a few interviews, one refrain echoed throughout those conversations. Jonathan's skills was at the center of it all.
So all I could do was hope this self-proclaimed investment banker turned ski bum would pick up our call. Hello. Hey, what's going on? Hey, how's it going? Good, good. We got a good connection on my end. Thankfully, he did. I'm going to Mexico City, and it's going to be an awesome vacation. All thanks to Viator.
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Get your quote today at Progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Did you know Justin before this as well? Yeah, yeah, we had met in 2015 and stayed in contact. He was friends with a couple of friends. Surprisingly, Jonathan Skeels, the man who spearheaded the ground search for Justin, hadn't known Justin very long.
Only a year. So I ask why he decided to look for him. I was like, I've been to the area where he's missing. I have lots of very influential friends in India. I have financial means. I have pretty savvy. I was looking at all these other friends of Justin's that were making nice social media posts, but no one was doing anything about it. And I was like, well, I would not feel good if I didn't go. And now I'm not trying to float my own boat there, but that's the reality of it.
We continue to talk, and it becomes evident that Skeels, like we've been told, possesses the secrets of the search, intimate details we couldn't have learned anywhere else. With what he shares, Alex and I are able to piece together a timeline of the 2016 events. We're going to take you on a journey through this timeline, and I want to emphasize that these details are crucial, because when you see this case in its entirety, the facts appear in a whole new light.
It begins August 18th, 2016. I should return mid-September or so. If I'm not back by then, don't look for me. Justin puts on his Instagram and blog the ominous message, saying he's headed with Baba Rawat to a spiritual ground called Montelai Lake. Two days later, he makes what will be his final post to Instagram and last calls to his mother, father, and Linda Barini. Mid-September comes and goes.
And Linda, worried, contacts their mutual friend, Chris Lee, who is in the Parvati Valley. She was like, "Yeah, I feel something's wrong. Have you seen Justin?" I was like, "No, but he's up there and he's planning to stay for a while, you know, so I wouldn't get worried about Justin. He's a big boy." A few days later, with no word from Justin, Chris hikes eight kilometers into the mountains to a campground called Kirganga. It's where Justin started the trek.
and where he was supposed to have returned. And when I did go, the Baba was back. He was in his hut, but there was no Justin. So I went over and interrogated him gently, you know. And I think at that time he had told me that they were walking back together and that Justin had decided to turn around and go back towards the lake with another group of trekkers. And I found that a little bizarre.
I told Linda what I had heard. That's kind of like when we started to feel that, yeah, there might be something a little weird going on. September 30th, Linda Barini informs Justin's mother, Susie Reeb, of the concerns. And the next day, they launch a GoFundMe titled "Find Justin Alexander," with a goal to raise $25,000. Word of Justin's disappearance spreads, and a friend of the family reaches out with a tip. They found a pivotal photo of Justin on Facebook.
It was uploaded by an Indian hiker who supposedly passed Justin on the trail. In it, the hiker holds Justin's flute walking staff, grinning. Justin stands next to him wearing a gray headband and a dark brown shawl. His mouth is clenched and his face appears worn and tired. It is now the last known image of Justin Alexander. Around this time in early October, Chris also reports Justin's disappearance to the local police.
However, they are slow to take action. It was just like, oh yeah, okay, another white boy lost in the mountain. It's not like common common, but it's happened quite often. In contrast, through the GoFundMe gaining traction, more people learn about Justin's disappearance, including Jonathan Skeels. I told the group that I was working for, I have to go to India and figure out what's happened to my mate. I don't know when I'll be back. Sunday, October 9th,
Skeels meets Susie Reeb at Heathrow Airport. Together, they embark on the long flight to New Delhi, where they meet with embassy officials, plead for help, and then continue north to the mountains. It's like an 8 a.m. arrival. 10 a.m., we were sitting in the offices of the superintendent of police and had the other board in for questioning right in front of us.
As Babarawat is interrogated,
Officers and locals who were in the room translate his words. The porter is also questioned, but let go. In the following days, Skeels gathers stories about the Baba's reputation.
October 13th, as urgency mounts, Susie Reeb files an official missing persons report and Skeels pays for a helicopter to scour the vast mountain terrain. Unfortunately,
Nothing is found. October 15th, finally gaining momentum with police, Babur Watt is apprehended and put in a cell on a 15-day hold. October 16th, after much persuasion, the state government grants Skeel another helicopter trip. Accompanied by an Indian mountaineer, they are dropped at the suspected location where the last photo was taken. Skeel says that along the entire hiking trail is the powerful and immense Parvati River.
They descend the mountain, scanning on and off the trail.
October 21st, just after 7 p.m., the only prison guard on duty at the Monte Karam police station allegedly steps outside to use the bathroom. When he returns,
He discovers Baba Rawat hanging by his cloth dodi. October 23rd, a peculiar update is made to the GoFundMe. The porter, Anil Kumar, is now assisting police search teams in the mountains.
Just a few days later, on October 26th, there's another development that changes things. The porter, who until recently had been accompanying a police search team up in the valley, has now been placed under formal arrest and is being held in suspicion of foul play. Again, in the most unusual of events, Jonathan Skeels and Susie Reeb are allowed to interrogate the porter. Your interrogation of the porter, what was that like?
Skills goes on to tell us that he dismissed Anil Kumar because he didn't speak English, and therefore viewed him as illiterate, uneducated, and simple-minded. The presumption seems more like prejudice, and also doesn't prove Anil Kumar clear of suspicion.
- And do you speak the native tongue? - No. - Did you get a translator? - No, no. Anyone over at certain social class knows how to speak English. - Did you get like a guide or anything to help you through that? - I had my disposal guy to help out, but I didn't specifically get a guide, no. - Preparations are made for a final helicopter trip. This time, a full police team joins Jonathan Skeels, as well as Susie Reed and a tracker named Tom McElroy.
Days later, a final team hikes to the location where Justin's items were found.
They hope to uncover more belongings or a body, but they return empty-handed. Eventually, Susie Reeb flies home to Oregon in honor of their missing friend, Jonathan Skeels and Tom McElroy ride Justin's Royal Enfield motorcycle through the Leladoc Pass, and the porter, Anil Kumar,
is released. — What is the process of even finding someone over there? — Oh, like if you had the name of a police officer and you wanted to track him down? — Exactly. — Oh, no. No. No, you'd have to go to the area, find out who was involved, look at all the reports. You'd need me, basically. — I have mixed feelings about this search. On one hand, I'm impressed by Jonathan Skeels.
He sacrificed weeks of his own time and leveraged every resource he could muster to try to find Justin. He didn't have any experience in this type of work. He didn't even know Justin that long. He just wanted to do a good thing. Skeels threw his entire being into the effort to influence law enforcement and Indian officials to take action. On the other hand, that sort of influence gives me pause. Was due diligence conducted to look at this case from all angles?
and how many potential leads, like the Porter, were glossed over. Skeels, who holds all the cards, doesn't share more with us. So for now, this is everything we know. - No problem, have a good one. - Thank you, you too. - Yeah, have a good one. Bye. - Hey. - Hey. Yeah, so we're gonna have trouble really getting more from him, I think. - Yeah.
For the next six months, Alex and I continue to research the case. And we keep coming back to the interrogation videos of the porter and the baba, which Skeels claims to have. When we last talked, he wasn't prepared to share them with us. But to get any further on this case, I need to know what was said in that room. So I come up with a plan and purchase a ticket, determined to change Skeels' mind.
I'm sending my brother money directly to his bank account in India because he's apparently too busy practicing his karaoke to go pick up cash. Thankfully, I can still send money his way. Direct to my bank account.
Yes, I know I'm sending to your bank account. Western Union. Send it their way. Send money in-store directly to their bank account in India.
I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.
Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.
Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Welcome to Cabo. Please remain seated when you're seated on the bus. Hello, dude. Hi. Good to see you. Two hours northeast of Cabo San Lucas, I pull into a gravel drive.
And my host, the long-haired New Zealander Jonathan Skeels, greets me outside. I've gotten to know Skeels well since our initial call, but to get to know each other better, we decided to meet up. It's happenstance that he's here in La Ventana, Mexico at the same time as someone else I want to meet, so he offered that I could crash his place. I've got a mezzanine up here for you.
La Ventana is known as one of the best locations in the world for kite surfing. And in the distance, surfers rip through the blue ocean waves. There's a thrill in watching them glide through the air. That evening, we head to a sandy bar. And mingling around fire pits, I meet a handful of travelers. Some who say they're here on vacation.
and some who, like Skeels, are living from moment to moment, drifting through. Being here is surreal, a place Justin Alexander would likely have visited with the kinds of people he would hang out with, swapping stories or making adventurous plans to spearfish or surf the next day. For the first time, I can imagine what it must have been like to be him.
I mean, motorcycles is what connected all of us. But we weren't really what you'd call motorcycle guys. We were just kind of Peter Pan, fuck-off sort of guys that wanted to feel freedom. This is Justin Chatwin. He claims to be a full-time drifter. But what he's best known for is his acting work.
Namely, playing the character Jimmy/Steve in the series "Shameless." This idea of just nomadism, like let's just live for today and wherever we end up tonight we'll get a hotel and then tomorrow we worry about tomorrow. And we all got caught up in this, what if we never came home? I mean, we talked about it, but it wasn't like... Well, Johnny, you actually did it. You like never really went home.
As Chatwin mentioned, he, Skeels, and Justin Alexander connected over their shared love of nomadism and motorcycles. Although Skeels and Chatwin stay in touch, they actually haven't seen each other in a while. In fact, the last time they were together was in 2016.
when they learned Justin Alexander was missing. - Most of us didn't know him. He was an acquaintance of mine. He wasn't even a friend. Would you call him a friend? - No. - You'd call him an acquaintance? - He was an acquaintance, like a guy who was like, "Oh, cool." Definitely possibility of becoming friends. - Yeah, that's true. I would completely agree with that. - Chatwin says he first crossed paths with Justin Alexander in May 2015 while motorcycling in the Mojave Desert.
They kept in contact through Instagram and eventually reconnected at a party in Big Sur. He was pretty quiet in crowds, didn't say much, but really good one-on-one. And the ladies loved him. And the ladies loved him. After that party, Chatwin remembers leaving with Justin. We got gas together and then I said, see you later. And when I left, I felt really sad. I don't know, I felt, it was almost like I felt sorry for him. Like I felt like he was really lonely and
wanting companionship and wanting a friend. And that was the last time you saw him? I think that was the last time I saw him. Yeah, I was like looking forward to getting to know him more, but hung out with him maybe four times. Maybe once. Yeah. You know, people often ask me why I went. You know, why did I drop everything to go do it? Because I met him that one night. That's the only time I ever met him. I hadn't had the deep conversations like Justin had, but I had observed the nature of the man and I was impressed and
And so yeah, I decided that I'd be disappointed in myself if I didn't go. It just didn't seem very dangerous to me until Johnny got there and kind of texted me like a few things. You sounded traumatized. Oh really? And dark. And I was like, oh, this is serious.
And then, so what did she give you?
You know, for a long time she held out that he was carrying these vials of LSD. Justin's father also mentioned the LSD vials, but this knowledge was never shared with the police or media. What was reported is that Justin had two backpacks, one which he took on the trek and is missing. The other was found at a guest house in Colga. What was in the bag? Well,
So in his bag was just like regular little bits of clothes, like his medical kit, survival stuff, his passport and his credit card. And before I even got there, I was in contact with Chris and Chris cryptically told me that there was like a kilo of hash in his bag. A kilo of hash is 2.2 pounds. That's a significant amount. I told him, you got to get rid of that because that would have immediately become the focus.
And I needed the full support of the local police in conducting the search, so I told Chris. I said, "Just make that disappear." But was he-- Justin wasn't short on money, was he? He wasn't flush. So I don't think he was trafficking. I think he had purchased advantageously and was, you know, selling it to other travelers just to fund his travels. Oh, you think he was selling, huh?
Well, he reportedly had two vials of LSD and one had dried up. And he was upset about that. And then he had like 120 tabs of Viagra. Justin wrote online that he planned to travel more after India and possibly the rest of 2016. So carrying medical supplies in bulk wouldn't be unusual. But 120 pills of Viagra? That's a striking number. Yeah, I question why he had it. I mean...
You know, maybe he was selling that too. I don't know. I don't know. I've traveled a lot and I've always said if you're looking for trouble and you're mixing in kind of darker worlds, you're going to find it. And it just sounds like that whole drug culture in India, it just seemed shady.
99.9% of the people that go to the valley as drug tourists aren't doing what he did. He was really testing his physical skills. It wasn't all about a drug trip. These two debate theories for what feels like hours, and I take a step back to just listen, as Skeels seems to be revealing details that he hadn't previously shared with me. It's then that Chatwin asks Skeels his thoughts on what really happened.
and I'm left stunned. - Well, I'm confident that he was murdered. - What's that? - I'm pretty confident he was murdered. - The reason why is what kind of gets me. - Well, okay, so this barber probably lived on like $100 a month. So if you suspect, you know, the foreigner has
few hundred dollar bills in his pocket he's got a phone he's got maybe some other valuables but why justin then like you could pick an easier target the weakest link could have killed goliath on this corner just the one place where you'd be walking behind someone and you just tapped them and they would have gone right over and not been able to self-arrest and when the baba is questioned he wouldn't have one story and change the story or get back and not report the fact that the guy was missing
Right? They may be they're afraid that they'll be blamed for his murder. Yeah, yeah, I didn't necessarily consider that just because of how shifty the guy was. The guy getting hung
I don't dismiss Skeels' theory.
His assessment is the closest thing we have to a possible motive for murder. The problem is, as Chatwin just demonstrated, it can be easily challenged. In an attempt to open the conversation and try to hear their thoughts on other scenarios, I ask if either of them believes Justin could still be alive. I mean, one of the hashtags that he used a lot was live your legend, you know? The whole thing of creating your own legend is...
Definitely something that he was playing with. He wouldn't have done this to his mother. He had such a tight connection with his mother. But haven't you ever had that thought of just, what if I just could get away from everyone and everything and just one day just start over as a new person without all my old shame and old feelings and just recreate myself? I fucking have had that thought. What if you actually did it?
I don't know, more and more it just seems like a bit of a story of drug addiction gone bad. But I don't mean just drug addiction, I mean like addiction to escape, addiction to fantasy, not wanting to feel your pain, not wanting to be who you are. And Instagram provides a perfect platform for the whole world to do that. Yeah.
And then you can trick the whole world into thinking you're somebody you're not. And then all of a sudden you wake up one day and you're like, "Who's this character I've been playing?" And I relate to that because I'm an actor. I put on roles sometimes. And I'm like, "Why am I feeling all these feelings?" I mean, in a way, we all play parts. And eventually it's really easy to get caught up in fantasy. And I think that's a form of addiction. And if you're constantly needing things outside yourself to be okay,
you can get into a little bit of trouble. I think the thing that we all have in common is that we all are kind of discontent with the lives that we live and the world we live in, and we want something more. So we look outside into the world of being like, well, maybe Buddhism works, or maybe living in India for a bit will work, or maybe if I become a kite surfer in La Ventana, maybe that's it. So we're curious, and you seek, and
And there is a really amazing element of Justin that was that side too. He was just trying to be a better man. What do you think? What do I think? To be honest, I really don't know. When I look at the facts, this is what I'm certain of. Justin was hiking down from Montelay Lake in early September with Barbara Watt and Anil Kumar. On his way down, he passed by a group of hikers who took a photo with him.
His two LSD vials, iPhone, and hiking backpack were never recovered. In the backpack that was found, he had a kilo of hash and 120 tabs of Viagra. And his flute, butane lighter, backpack rain cover, headband, scarf, and umbrella were found off the side of the hiking trail. To make any conclusion, I need more evidence. And the only person I know who has some, I happen to be rooming with.
I return with Jonathan Skeels to his La Ventana apartment. We continue to talk possibilities, and to heat up the debate, I poke holes at his murder theory.
Eventually, to prove with certainty that Justin was murdered, Skeels offers to show me what I've been looking for. He opens his laptop, and within a dropbox close to a terabyte in size,
are all the photos and videos from the 2016 search, including the interrogations. Next time on Status Untraced. I saw the flute! Flute, flute! Yes! Oh my god. So this is what I spotted here. I see the flute of the guy who is missing.
Oh, God. This is a flute, right? It looks like it. It's fresh. You can take out... Oh, shit! If you have tips or information on the individuals in this podcast that you'd like to share, please email us at statusuntraced at gmail.com or leave us a message at 507-407-2833. Status Untraced is a production of Tenderfoot TV in association with Odyssey. I'm your host, Liam Luxen.
Executive producers are Alex Vespested, Donald Albright, and Payne Lindsey. Producers are Meredith Stedman and myself. Supervising producer is Tracy Kaplan. Consulting producer, Jonathan Skeels. Associate editors are David Bash and Charles Rosner of Get Up Productions, with additional editing by Sydney Evans. Artwork by Trevor Eiler. Original music by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Colder Heavens by Blanco White.
Mix by Cooper Skinner. Voice acting provided by Johnny Lavallee and Theodora Rummel. Thank you to Oren Rosenbaum and the team at UTA, Beck Media and Marketing, and the Nord Group. As we've unlocked new photos and videos from the search for Justin Alexander, be sure to check out our Instagram, at statusuntraced, where we'll be sharing some of that exclusive content. ♪♪
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A four-year investigation, hundreds of interviews, thousands of documents, all in an effort to see what the U.S. military has kept from the public for years. Did you think that a war crime had been committed? I don't have any opinion on that. Season three of In the Dark is available now, wherever you get your podcasts.
