Honoring Everyday Heroes and Musical Pursuits w/Michael Ray :: Ep 26 Try That in a Small Town Podcast
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Instead of voting you off, they locked you in. So then the first live show where people could vote, they voted me in to lock in. And I ended up winning the show and doing this whole big party in LA with John and Nelly and all this stuff. And then I'll never forget flying home. And I'm sitting next to John and I'm like,

Well, now what? But people are missing today. Like, they don't... Yeah. I think you need to struggle to appreciate the success. It's never going to happen again. That's... No, you're right. Days of old, man. You're right. I don't think people appreciate how many songs you go through per album. Oh, yeah. And then how many... And kind of speak to how many relationships you have, how many people you have texting you, hey, man, are you into our...

into our song. Yeah, yeah. The Try That in a Small Town podcast begins now. Try That in a Small Town

All right, guys, we're back with another Try That in a Small Town podcast. We appreciate you listening. We got Tully, we got K-Lo, we got Thrash. I love that nickname. And we have a lot of different kinds of guests on this podcast, and it's always fun. You know, we kind of expand our wings a little bit, but home base is always in the music business.

We're very honored to have a good friend with us, Michael Ray. Yeah. Yes. Come on. Thanks for being here, buddy. Yeah, man. I saw y'all were doing this. Yeah.

What is this? We're like 25 episodes in. Right around. I think you're number 25. Nice. Oh, lucky 25. Anyway, we appreciate you being here. Thank you, man. You said you were about to head out of town. Is that right? We're leaving tonight. Are you leaving tonight as well? Yeah, I was supposed to be headed to Pigeon Forge for a show, but sadly with the hurricane and all the damage that's done there. So thoughts to all those people down there going through it and trying to, you know, being from Florida,

you know, hurricanes were all the time and you don't,

I don't know if you get numb to it or what, but you don't win it. But all of a sudden when it hits other states and does what, I mean, the damage is unbelievable there. Like what's happened. Roads are washed away. People, they're using civilian helicopters to try to find people in North Carolina and South Carolina. And there's the communities coming together because sadly it's not on any Harley news stations. I think that's why I didn't know it got that bad. You know, we were on the road the last five days or whatever. And,

I was like, oh man, you know, it hit up there. It was horrible. People probably lost houses. You know, that's always sad. And then my buddy a couple days ago was like, no man, look at this. And it was like roadways are washed out and people are

you know, getting rescued by helicopters and boats. And I mean, they're going to be out of power for, for a while. So my thoughts are with them, but yeah, that show ended up getting, getting canceled. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's been awful. And like you said, all of our thoughts and prayers go to them. You know, it's interesting. You say that I'm from Iowa and that's tornadoes for me. It was like, you know, tornadoes like, ah, that's fine. Yeah.

But we would just have like hurricanes. You just buy all the liquor, beer, anything you can grill and a bunch of candles. Okay, so what part of Florida are you from? I'm from Eustis, Florida, which is Lake County. It's like south of Ocala area. We had the terrible flood here in Nashville, which you all remember. But when I saw, I think we were on the West Coast as well. So when I saw the news, like, okay, well, the hurricane's going up.

It's going to bring some rain. But those towns like Asheville and those old towns of North Carolina, seeing the footage, it's hard to believe. It's like looking at Nashville. I remember when we were flying home, we were on the road when the flood happened here, and we were flying home over Opryland, the Opry Mills, the mall. And it was underwater. I'm like, holy crap. That's what's happened in Nashville. Yeah.

houses. There's footage this morning on the news. They've got this house literally coming down. Oh, yeah, I saw that. It's just floating down the whole house. Oh, my God. Just floating down. That's what's heartbreaking. You see these people that bust their ass to have their house and their families there and their safety and all the memories there and all of a sudden this big storm comes and

odds are people in that area aren't prepared for no no type of devastation of a hurricane that never happens you know so it's like when nashville and the flood happens it's a hundred year it's a hundred years prepared to have a flood like that in nashville that was right you know driven driven 40 out that way you can see why all those rivers went up because everything funnels to the river

All those mountains. All the water just finds its way to the river and there's nowhere else for it to go except for to wash out I-40. It was horrible. We had a cabin up in Maggie Valley and I'm pretty sure that thing's washed away. It was on the side of a mountain. You remember that, Kirk? Oh, yeah. And I'm pretty sure like, I mean, it was on, you know, literally the side of a mountain. So I...

They actually showed Maggie Valley this morning on Fox. Yeah, and it was like, whoa, it is sad. We've talked about this, kind of like you. So we didn't think much of it at first, and then you see the devastation, and it's national news for a couple days. Yeah.

And then it goes away because whatever the next news cycle is, it's like, oh, well, we're on to the next. But man, that affects people for months and for years and for a really long time, as we found out in Nashville. So like we said, if you can find a way to help, please do so. Thoughts and prayers to everyone. And the headline this morning was searching for food and water. I'm like, okay. I'm like.

surely there's something that can be going on. Right. You know what I mean? Like I said, people literally looking for food and water. I'm like, okay, there's got to be a way. Most of those places, they're going to have to helicopter. National Guard type stuff. Yeah, clean water is the first thing. Yeah, that was the whole thing with our show. It's like you can't physically get down there. Right. It was so bad, yeah. So backtrack for us a little bit so people can understand the history of Michael Ray. You're from Florida. Yeah.

You were on a talent show. Is that right? Was it the next? Is that what it was called? Yeah, it was so weird. That was, dude, when I look back at my life, that was the most random thing. One of the top five random things that's ever happened in my life. Well, tell us how it happened. So I was, so to back up a little bit, my family's from Eustis, Florida. We're,

I mean, six, seven, eight generations, same land, same, you know, where my dad lives now. And, you know, still where my great uncle Kenny lives, you know, my cousin Teresa lives, my aunt Kim lives. Like all, there's a bunch of people right there way back in the woods. It's a compound. We shut the gate. Only way you can get to us is by helicopter. But, you know, it's where we all learned to hunt and

ride bikes as kids. And, you know, my dad grew up going out there. And so it's all right there. My grandfather served in the army. And when he got out of the army, met my grandmother. And anyway, there, he was one of six or seven kids, all boys, one girl. And then my grandmother was one of eight girls. Right. So when there's, there's no phone distractions going on, all of a sudden the, uh, riddle family moves in with eight daughters up the street. You know what I mean? You got the seven boys, they somehow find a way to meet, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

And so all of them, they were all kind of close in age as well because back then everybody was having kids mainly to have help. You couldn't afford help on it, so you just force them into life. And so all them had all their kids. They met my uncles and aunts, and then they had their kids. So there was a bunch of cousins around. Dude, my grandfather, to this day, we've all been fortunate to meet some really cool people that love music and love writing songs or whatever.

This dude's love for country music was still like nobody I've ever known. And he played lead guitar, incredible lead guitar player. And he would put instruments, man, in all of our family's hands. I mean, to this day, there's a guitar in people's houses that don't even play guitar, but it's because my grandfather, you know, like, and I guess when I was born, the nursery that they put you in, you know, my dad said that he was walking in and with his dad, my grandfather, and he said, there's this

screaming his ass off. And all I got to think was, please, God, don't let that be my son. He said, it sounded like you were dying in there. And he said, we walked in there like, we can't get this kid to shut up. The only way he shuts up is if we put the local country station on.

and then my dad said they would shut me right up. So they had to play the country station in my, in the room to, to keep me quiet, you know? And then as I got older, my grandfather, they'd always have me on stage, man. I had this little Kermit, the frog guitar, you know, and I'd jump on stage with him. So I'd be, there's videos of me and, uh,

you know, singing killing time in a diaper at two, not at 30. It's last week. But, you know, they were rehearsing and stuff. And then I would start playing and then I'd play in my grandpa's bands, dude. He played, he was a cable splicer for the phone company. He'd work all day long in the hell heat of Florida. My grandma would be ready and have his guitar Gibson 335 and his amp. And he'd get in, change, take a poor man's shower, comb his hair and

We'd go play the Moose Lodge or the Community Center. One of my favorite stories with him was whenever things got going, he's like, hey, man. He'd come. We're playing. He'd play nursing homes, assisted living. He didn't care. He'd play anywhere. He'd play for hours for free. That's incredible. But his way of selling it to me and my dad to get us to go, he's like, hey, man, they feed you here. I'm like, Grandpa? That's no joke. We remember those. When you're a musician and food goes a long way. Bland.

blend assisted living home food. There is a, yeah. Offering food. I remember playing up in, in, in bands and bars up home. And every Wednesday night there was a spaghetti feed at one of the bars that all the bands played at. It was $5 spaghetti, you know? So, Hey,

Yeah. You do what you got to do. Oh, I realized later on that that that they would come in handy. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, well, we have an eight and five days. So, yeah, we'll play for food. But yes, I started playing with him all through like middle school and stuff. And then there was this little Opry house called the Sunshine Opry. That was a little replica of the Grand Ole Opry. And during the wintertime, whenever, you know, all the people come down from the north and stuff, it'd be packed and they would have like shows big like older national acts would come in. But on Friday nights, they would have open night night.

And you could play with their band and their band, dude, was just like top notch players. Anyway, so that place kind of was my first like playing in front of an audience and having to win people over. You know, here's a 16 year old that's jumping up on stage with guys. Normally I'd have my safety net of my family or, you know, you know how it is once you, you know, you've been playing with people like you guys, you know what I mean? Like it'd be weird to look over and see anybody else there, you know? So, so they, and those guys really took me under their wing, I think, just because I love,

the history of country music but getting up on stage at that age is is priceless though yeah we all started young you know 14 15 16. like that's how you learn to do it that's your college you know that's how you learn you know yeah that's your college that's you're going up you can't you can't learn how to entertain by singing lip singing on your phone i'm sorry you know like you can't learn how to read a crowd you can't there's some of that stuff in those bars times that when you look back now you're like

Man, that was... You end up looking back, I tell people this that are in it, you know, and they are in it right now. And I'm like, dude, I'm telling you. Everything works out like you hope it will and I hope it does for you. You look back on that time and go, man, I kind of missed those days a little bit. One of my bigger complaints today is that people aren't having to go through this. You know, so when you, you know, if something goes viral or they get signed because of TikTok or Instagram or whatever labels want to sign people these days or whatever, they...

They put them out there on tours. Yeah. And they've never even really played in bars or never had to do five sets a night or figured out

you know, how to, how to make a set work, you know? So I love that you, that you came up like that, which is one of the reasons I'm excited about having you on tonight, you know, it was like having that, you're like one of the last guys I feel like from that class that did it that way. Yeah. Yeah, man. And, and that's, but you know, when I was doing that, it was like before the YouTube thing, before people were posting up videos. So like I would, I would, you know, to kind of

Speed it up a little bit. I ended up, I would come up to Nashville with my buddy Jeff Hurst, who's a great songwriter, firefighter down home.

the only guy that would meet with us because we didn't know shit about what we were doing I didn't even know there was like radio reps I was like yeah let me get the record deal and then you play my song you know and so I didn't know anything I bought the Donald Passman book of the music business you know what I mean I was like I guess this is what you learned I want to know everything when I get there and and

but the only guy that would meet with us was David Preston at BMI. Yeah. And, um, and so David, let's do a couple of my songs. He's like, man, what are you doing? You know, which kind of what you're, what you're playing. And at that time I was 18, 19 years old, somewhere in there. And I was going to, I was like, man, I'm going to move to Nashville. You got a band. I was like, Oh no. Cause you make more money. You know, you made more money. And at the time I was just, I was still living at home and stuff. He's like, man, put a band together and go down and,

Do what you're doing, but with a band and get in these festivals and get in opening for the national guys that are coming in and grow this. And what was so funny was at that time, people were still doing showcases. People were still doing these things. He literally like he had a crystal ball. He's like, you do this and make people when they think of country music in Florida. You're one of the first people they think of. He said, people, the days of coming up here and doing the showcase, they're going to be done. And he goes, you're going to have to show people.

You're going to have to bring something to the table. And for the people who don't... Sorry to interrupt, but this is a great... I'm glad you mentioned this because for the people out there that don't understand what the word showcase means, it's one of the more gut-wrenching things to do. The whole crowd. Moving here in the mid-90s, in the early 90s and everything. So showcase is basically you're trying to get a deal and you may have four or five songs that...

you like and you get you get a band and you and you invite labels out to see you play at a bar in nashville or a showcase room you know which which are all gone now pretty much yeah um

And you might get 20 people there from labels and you're playing your songs and it's the most sterile environment. Like you're getting no response. And at Aldine, we did, I'm pretty sure I know we hold the record for the amount. We did close to, no less than 30 showcases. At least. Got passed on. At least. That's maybe a low number, but we got passed on every time. Anyway, it's one of the more sterile,

terrible things to go through as an artist because you're up there and you're saying, God, please sign me. And you get no response from the expressions. That's why I'm a songwriter. You get your family in the corner that's saying, yay, go. But everybody else is like... It truly is though. And you're barely... I finally said no more. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done.

i'm not doing another showcase i'm not doing another radio but a showcase was you know and and it just kind of phased out yeah yeah so it was like he was kind of like seeing the future on that like i said we had nothing to bounce it off of because no one else would meet with us so

me and Jeff put this band together, man. And I was still playing acoustic shows to fund the shows that we'd be opening. And so Jeff had some connections with some guys and I did the whole five song EP headshot, 10 fun facts on the back. I'd go around to these bars and just be like, hey man, I got this band I want to play. And luckily some noise was getting made around the central Florida area for what the bars, you know, what we're doing in the bars.

And then I went to this place called Boots and Buckles in Lakeland, Florida. And it's not there anymore. But at the time, it was like the happening spot. And they would have national acts come in. And so I go down there and nobody's there. Obviously, it's during the day. And I meet this guy, John, who now I love and has been a great friend of mine ever since and was really in my corner and

go up to him and I'm like, hey man, my name's Michael Ray. I'm from Eustis, Florida. You know, I've got my band. I've been recording in Nashville because I thought if I, my, my just thoughts were, if you have recorded in Nashville on a CD, you know what I mean? Then everybody around would be like, he's doing something. Yeah.

Boy's got something going on. They're just going to waste their time with him. And so we were like, that's our marketing plan. It's like the gluten-free on Tito's. They're all gluten-free. They just happen to say it. And so anyway, I go in and he's like,

And I told him, I said, man, I'll play the first one. I'll open for free, dude. I'm just trying to get my foot in the door to these clubs, you know? And he's like, all right, cool. And it's kind of cold, you know, but he's getting his bar ready. You know, and here comes this kid. And then I get in my truck and out comes a bartender who's a guy that used to work for my Aunt Rose doing medical sales, right? He's the bartender there. He comes running out. And he's like, dude, what are you doing? I'm like...

what are you doing here, man? He's like, I've been working here. And he goes, you trying to get a gig here? I go, yeah. He goes, I'll make it happen. He goes, John's a great dude. I'll talk to him. I'm like, all right, cool. A few days later, I get a call from John. He goes, what are you doing? Whatever date, you know? And I said, whatever you need me to do. And he goes, well, we're going to have you up. We got a sold out show. Jason Michael Carroll was headlining. And he goes, he goes,

if you want it, you can open. And I was like, deal. And I practiced that 45 minute set, bro. Like we were opening the Grammys, right? Yes, you did. We actually, I remember changing my opening song because of Jason Aldean and growing up in the Southeast, you know, Corey Smith, Colt Ford, Brantley, you know, before Brantley blew up, like we were listening to all that underground stuff. And then Aldean came out and was kind of doing all what they were doing, but with this rock thing that y'all were doing. And I was just like blown away.

And when "My Kind of Party" came out, I was like calling my guys. I'm like, listen, y'all go learn this song. We're not opening with that song that we have. This is the one. This is going to get them going. And so we opened with that. And I had a few songs that Jeff and I had written that we'd thrown in there, but a lot were covers. And another just weird moment, man, I feel like God has always kind of steered me in this direction. Because there's some things that it's just him. There wasn't anything else.

In that crowd that night, you know, back then when you're playing these shows, even today, anybody listening that's busting ass and, you know, like y'all were saying, getting passed on or, you know, whatever it is.

Always show up and play because you truly don't know who's in the audience. And in the audience that day was a lady named Sarah Michaels who worked for 97.5 WPCV, the radio station in Lakeland. She came up to me. She goes, hey, I got one of your CDs, blah, blah, blah. We talked for a second, and that was it. Well, at the time, the radio guys didn't have a social presence, so you really knew their voice. You didn't really know what they looked like or anything.

And then she ended up spending one of the songs that she connected to on 97.5 at 5.15 every day when she was on. Wow. Drive time. Drive time. And then the attention I got was from Nashville because I was like charting. I'm like, you know, 70s or whatever. But everybody's like, who the hell is this Michael Ray guy? Like, why is he on the, you know? One day we were on the road. We were playing in Savannah, Georgia. And my manager at the time called me and said, man, there's this TV show called The Next.

I'm like, what? I go, I haven't seen anything, no TV show. And he goes, well, it was a Saturday. He's like, well, you got time to think on it, but they want to know. And the whole thing was there's mentors, not judges. And it was John Rich, Nelly, Gloria Estefan, and Joe Jonas. And they're like, they don't really have a country guy. And they saw the videos your fans have been posting.

on YouTube of these sold out shows. Yeah. But it was like, you know, this crappy cell phone. Flip them. Yeah. Flip them. And so I never went out for this show, never auditioned for this thing. And we get back, I get back to Nashville. Tell my manager, I was like, dude, we're already kind of getting some traction here. Like, I don't want to sign something, be locked into some TV deal. You know what I mean? For the rest of my life and all this shit, we're building it. We're growing, we're growing a fan base.

And he's like, well, being on TV ain't going to hurt. You know, and so we do it. I say yes to do it. And they agree to everything that I ask. Right. We do it. First live show.

is in Orlando, Florida at the House of Blues. And the whole thing was, it was like the States and the whole thing of the show was taking the people that are right there in their hometowns, who's the biggest names in your hometown music wise. And we'll take one of those people and make them compete in their hometown or in their home state. And then we'll take one of them and then eight or however many go to LA and then they film the rest in LA. And so I ended up there, like my manager's like, bro, you're not gonna believe this, but the first episode is Orlando.

And the House of Blues. And I was headlining the House of Blues like a month before that. Sold out.

And so they, we, me and these other four contestants, also, I was able to bring John Ridge to my hometown and he pulled a bus up to the front of my house blowing the horn. Of course he did. And all the neighbors are coming out like, what the hell is going on? And here comes John Ridge walking out with TV cameras and stuff. And so, and so he was like my mentor and, and I ended up winning that and then going to LA and instead of voting you off, they locked you in. So then the first live show where people could vote, they voted me in to lock in.

And I ended up winning the show and doing this whole big party in L.A. with John and Nelly and, you know, all this stuff. And then I'll never forget flying home. And I'm sitting next to John and I'm like, well, now what? You know what I mean?

Now what the hell do we do? You know, I don't know what to do. And then, so anyway, that's kind of what led that show. Came out of nowhere, led me into Warner. I ended up doing, I had to do a showcase for them, but in Florida. And so they were able to come and see what we were doing. And then I played for Espo and Chris Lacey and Scott Hendricks, and they signed me a deal with them. And the show never appeared again. Well, you know, it's an interesting thing because there's some, I don't know if it's stigma, but you know, when I watch shows,

idol or voice or any of those, you tend to go, oh, this person hasn't been through it. They're just, you know, karaoke singer, right? But you went through it. You were a legit artist. And of course, there have been some legit ones come through as well, but that's kind of...

what some people tend to think of in those competitions, but it's really cool. I didn't even know the story. I mean, so like, I knew we liked you for a reason. Yeah. There's a, there's a Lakeland, Florida connection too. Oh yeah. So it's funny back in, this had to be out of 03 or early 04. We, I think we had made the first Aldine record, but it hadn't come out yet. Mm-hmm.

And we were playing shows. Kevin Neal was booking us. And we were playing every bar. Half the time, no one would show up. We played Lakeland. It might have been even in that bar. I think it was. It was another name, though. It was another name. But it was. So it's funny. We pull in.

And I remember playing. We had no money for hotel rooms. We actually showered at the YMCA across the street. Which we walked to. Which we walked to. So we're showering at the YMCA getting ready for the show. And we play the show. And it was Jason's dad and his uncle, I think, were there. Like four people. And us. Yeah. Yeah, nobody was there. But that...

You said it best. Those times, I remember everything from those days. Amen. Everything, and coming up like that. And we talk about those times more than anything, to your point. Those are the...

The journey is really what it's about. Like, you know, we're blessed. You're blessed to be where we are. But, you know, you look back at those times and it wouldn't mean as much if you didn't take that path. And I think that's what people are missing today. Like they don't. Yeah. I think you need the struggle to appreciate the success. Never going to happen again. That's days of old, man. You're right.

And it's cool, the family connection. Like you'd mentioned your granddad. That kind of stuck with me, passing the instruments around and different people in your family. My uncle was that guy. My uncle was my hero. He's in Vietnam and everything, living in Pine Mountain, Georgia, California.

I wanted to be like him and he had this guitar and he had this super nice Martin maybe it was a I don't know maybe a is it D45 something like that D28 something but I'm not even a guitar guy but it was beautiful and it was underneath his bed and it had the gold keys on it and the gold fretboard and everything and he said you know if you ever learn how to play a song I'll give you this

And I said, well, I don't even have a guitar. And so he gave me this little guitar. It wasn't a ukulele, but it was four strings. It was almost like a very small guitar. He was setting you up for failure right away. But I went home, and I had Mom book me some guitar lessons at the mall. And I think I learned the theme of Peter Gunn or something on tablature. You know, you had the little numbers. Oh, rich kid. You had paid for lessons. Wow.

I think it was $11. Yeah, rich kid. He was a rich kid. Anyway, so I went back like six months later and I played him my song and everything. And I was expecting to get the guitar and he had done sold it. And so, yeah, so that was a terrible story. And it was tragic after that. And so... That's the typical music business story. He's just teaching you what the music business is going to do later on. Yeah.

It's one of those lessons. But anyway, he would follow me to my shows. My parents did too. My parents didn't drink or anything, but we'd play in bars and stuff. And everybody, they'd be throwing beer bottles and stuff over here. My parents would be in the corner drinking Diet Coke and eating terrible popcorn. Yeah. You know, just following you. But the family experience that you mentioned is kind of cool. That's where a lot of us, you know, get that support and everything to kind of give you the love to get you to where you are. Yeah, I felt grateful once I moved to Nashville and started meeting other artists or songwriters where like their families were polar opposites.

Where it was like, if you're moving to Nashville, then we're cutting you off, you know, or whatever. You know, I just remember thinking like, you know, when you were raised around your family and your community, you're like, oh, everybody, you know, and everybody's, you may now meet like-minded people in Nashville that moved here from their towns, you know, to chase this whole dream. You're like, oh, we all do. And then you hear some of their stories, you know, I'm like, man, thank God. Did you remember that feeling you had? I always think about this and it's a curse, but it's a blessing. We're all blessed. And you look back on,

things like how do we get here you know it's cool i remember very vividly the feeling i had the first night i was in nashville and i was like what now yeah i'm here 100 i'm here you're sleeping on your uncle's yeah i was still on the floor yeah but do you remember that feeling though i know i remember pulling into town i remember being like and i'm from a town of like 500 people and i'm like whoa oh yeah what am i gonna do now it's a massive city to me you know yeah i'm

Houston, Florida, we ain't got no skyscrapers or all this stuff. So even back then, I was like, oh my God. And that same feeling of the excitement to move. And then when you move, and I'd moved with buddies of mine, my band that came up. And you're like, yeah, you get in your apartment, you crack your beers, you're like, I guess we go to Broadway. Is that what we're doing? So what year was that you moved? Man, I think I moved, it was probably...

I would say. Wow. Nine or something like that. But one thing that like, I wish I would have done better. I didn't understand. Like I was like, I, you know, it was like Loretta Lynn, her and her husband went in the car and passed albums around, you know, to every radio station, you know, the Waylon and Willie stories, you know, just playing every club and play, play, play, you know, make the fans and,

And so that's, I was keeping us busy, dude. Like I was booking us 80 dates a year, you know, we were playing any place and then I'd go to Florida for acoustic shows and make some money. And then that would get us to Mississippi where same, you know, there'd be three people there and two of them worked, you know, you play these, you know, kind of just dive bars or whatever. And so I, I, we were on the road so much that when I got my record deal and started meeting people, I, everybody, so many, I had to felt like I had to like fast track into meeting people.

like other songwriters and other artists because they were in Nashville but they were going to the songwriter rounds and all these things and they were meeting you know other songwriters and artists and stuff like that and I was on the road I didn't you know that was the one thing of Nashville I didn't catch on too quick yeah well it is I mean when I moved here the first thing I did I went right to printer's alley which was back in those days was quite a different place it was a different place but that's who you went you know I moved here as a player

And so going down there, I remember, hey, can I get up and play Don't Close Your Eyes? And all the guys that I did that with, they're all moved away. They're all gone now. But that feeling, though, just trying to get out there and meet people. I tell all the young guys that I meet that want to move here, you got to do it and you got to get through it. You got to get through it.

the process after you after you move here like you'll find out real quick you know if you're gonna stay oh dude those days of like i don't know how we're getting to this next show and paying the electric bill you know and we were splitting it five ways you know like it was yeah in this little apartment two-bedroom apartment down there you know but also like you know those times man you're just figuring it out do you have any are those guys uh still with you in your band and those guys still no a few of them are out of the music scene a couple of them are uh they've

Two or three of them are still in Nashville. Gotcha. That's cool. That's what country music does to people, though. It makes you stay. Yeah. Guys, this is an awesome conversation with Michael Ray. We're going to take a quick break, and we'll be back with some more good stuff. We are so thankful for our sponsor. Original Brands is starting a new era in American domestic premium beer. American made, American owned, Original Glory.

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Yeah, almost 10 years ago.

By the way, I love hearing anybody's stories. Their first stories are writing with Neil. So I can't wait to hear this. Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. We're good, right? No, you've always been great to me, man. But on Tuesdays when your parents would buy you CDs and stuff, that's when I started realizing that they're songwriters. Did you know that?

First thing all of us would do was open it up and read the song. And then there was these little names underneath all these songs. And so I started, I asked my dad, I was like, dad, who are these dudes? He's like, they're just songwriters. People move to town to write songs and just be songwriters that don't want to go out on the road. And they just want to write songs and they send them to people and they cut them if they like them. I was like, oh.

Well, then I started realizing that a lot of these same guys were underneath these songs that I love, you know, and it was you, Casey Beathard, Monte Criswell, Jeffrey Steele, Bob DiPiro, you know, you just started seeing Wendell Mobile. You start seeing the the common thing here. And I'm like, oh, and then so I was always a big fan of your writing and everything. And then I

Delaney called me because I broke with him like before. Michael Delaney called me and he's like, hey man, I don't know if y'all had a cancellation or something or maybe it was just YouTube and he was going to bring me in and I was like, yeah. And so,

I get there and you came in, I think it was during turkey season. And you came in, you came in, he goes in, you're talking about something just right out of the gate. Come in, get your backpack down, put a dip in, take your gun, set it on the table. Just open your thing and start singing like an angel. And I'm like, oh, this is my dude. I was like, we're good here. I remember the first guy that came out and pulled a Glock out of his backpack.

He still does it. And I'm like, Delaney, where are we writing at? Did we all need one of these? I didn't get the memo. I would have brought some. He still does it. He comes out of our office and we're writing and first thing, there it is on the table. You never know. You never know. I felt good. I was like, all right, I can be open here. That's your people, right? You're with the right people. I'm with the right people. Even to this day, when we're writing, when Neil and I are singing the demo, I'll sit there and be like,

His voice is ridiculous. I remember going, oh, that's Wayne. Okay, I get the Rascal Flatts connection. Well, he's influenced from Gary to Aldean. Yeah, man. Anyway. Oh, stop. I know. What's up, Neil? That's what's great about when an artist and a songwriter have this thing, and maybe the artist isn't even writing those songs. You look at a Dean Dillon and George Strait, it was like,

what you brought to the table created sounds that created careers. You know, for people that might not have gone the same. You know, if it wasn't for y'all hitting on whatever it was I hit with, or maybe you knew the artist, or maybe you didn't, you know, but y'all just...

Musically, we're in line. And because of that, you created careers. And I want to touch on that real quick, too, when you talk about sound and the sonic value of what can separate something. And I always love that. Me and Kurt have talked about this with your voice. And I think a couple of years ago, we made a record together. We played on your album. And even when you're singing the scratchdown, I remember telling Kurt, like, you know,

The guy has a voice that's very recognizable in the same way that I always thought that Rich McDonald did from Lone Star. Whether you like all the Lone Star songs or not, it doesn't matter. He opens his mouth, you know who it is. Yeah, yeah. You know, and that's a quality that I think we've lost. And it's such a huge weapon when you can, when someone knows, oh, it's Michael Ray. Thanks, man. Yeah. You know, which is, which is, you know, Dierks has that kind of thing. Aldine has it. You know, they all have, whether you like all the songs or you don't, the quality of what

makes someone different is in the tone of that voice, you know? I'll never forget that. First day that we were in there, Michael Knox was producing that record. And of course, Michael Knox produced all the Jason stuff. And we played on, what was it, Die Bars? Broken Hearts. Josh Thompson's song. So it's interesting as players when you're cutting a record or demo, you've got your little box there and you can say, oh, I want more guitar. And there's always the star with the vocal. Yeah.

You never know where to put that. You never know where to put that. I was wondering that. These guys ain't listening to shit. No, but just for real, right? You start singing and I'm like, oh, this is one that you want. Beautiful.

because it does inspire the way you play. And like Tully said, this guy's got it. Thanks, man. No, 100%. And it's a quality that I think has been lost a little bit. And I don't know if it's lost or just not. Well, I don't think you can carve out a career without that little intangible thing. You may have a hit, you know, but I don't think you can have...

a career of making good music and playing shows every year and seeing your, I don't think you can have that without something that sets you apart in that voice. Yeah, man. Well, growing up, you know, I was influenced by the Randy Travis's and the Keith Whitley's in Alabama, you know, and all these guys that I was surrounded by my family's band and playing music with my grandfather. So all the songs that I was learning, um,

were those guys that were different. You know what I mean? That brought some, they didn't sound like everybody else. You kind of borrow styles from all your, like the influences you have growing up. I tried to sing like Randy Travis since I was, since I first heard Digging Up Bones. Right. Did you have a moment, like, I think all of us as musicians or being in the music world have a moment when you're young and maybe it's seeing somebody on TV, maybe it's going to a concert and you go,

I want to do that. Did you have that or was it just your family or did you have that kind of moment? Yeah, my my oldest sister, Ryan, I was like 12, 13 years old, somewhere around there. And they bought a bunch of tickets. Garth was playing at the Amway at the TD Waterhouse at that point in time in Orlando before it moved to the Amway.

And she had two, I don't know if two opened up or maybe she called my dad and just asked if we wanted to go and he got two tickets and he was like, oh, yeah, it'll be good for Michael to have his first concert. And, you know, he's, and at that time I've been playing with my grandfather every weekend and,

And the moment I remember, dude, was when he played the dance. Like it wasn't like the fire blowing up and all this stuff. I just watched this dude hold this entire arena in the palm of his hands. Acoustic. Was that Tony Arata? Yes. Yeah. And that moment for me, we were like the second row of the next tier up. You know, so you kind of see everybody. And I'm just I remember just as a kid, just standing there, like looking around and going like, dude, he has everybody from it.

year old to the 70 year old, you know, just captivated right now. And that moment I was like, I don't know.

how to connect eustis florida to this but i want to do this you know some capacity you know and uh yeah it wasn't like friends in low places or any of the songs that you would think would be this moment you know it was when he did the dance dude i just remember thinking like this is unreal that song i remember when it came out i was you know what was that 89 88 if i'm remembering right i think it's 88 89 somewhere in there um and i was you know teenager well in the high school

But as much as the song was very powerful, but the video along with that song put those pictures to that song. And we know what a video and a song can do together. But you know what I mean? The dance especially was one of the better examples of a video elevating a song. It was incredible. Yeah.

Yeah, that was my moment, man. I was like, I got to do this. I love that. You're doing it. And I always just love the lyrics, dude. I always love... Even when we're listening to songs, Chris Lacey would send me songs. She's like, this is...

you know, you just got to hear this song. Yeah. It would just be just great. Just lovers of good songs. You know, and those ones are always the sad. I'm like on my happiest day, dude, I'm grilling on my trigger. Smoking a little bit. Listen to the saddest stuff you've ever heard in your life. Hey, you know, every time, you know, we go way back with Chris and, and, uh, every time we saw Chris through the years, um,

Melchoray. Melchoray. Yeah, she's awesome, man. Always in your corner. She's been one of the best things for my career. It's good to have when you're cutting records and when you're learning, beginning that first record. When you sign your deal, and I'm sure all y'all felt this way when you signed your first record, you're like...

oh shoot, dude, like now we're doing it. You know, are these songs good enough? Am I good enough? How are we going? You know, like now all of a sudden it's just all this whirlwind of stuff and having someone like her that's just like help guiding you and, and, and, you know, just teaching you and putting you with great songwriters that she starts learning you and, and yeah, she's always been a great A&R, but also a great friend. Who you meet is so important. I mean, the first person I met in this town, I was here two days, 96, I met Michael Knox and he,

It's crazy when you think back about who you meet and who kind of shapes the road that you take. Yeah. Because it can so easily go the other way. 100%. You can get on the road that Michael Knox told you to go down. You know what? Back in those days, this is pre-Al Dean, though, and I remember Michael would... He started showing up in khaki shorts and new bike shoes. He was wearing the same thing. God bless him. But he...

he went out of his way to like get me with new artists and new people he was working with. And he was pitching songs at that point for Warner chapel, you know? So he'd plug me in with a new artist here, a new artist there. And you know, it was, it was amazing. You don't meet a lot of people with Knox's passion for music. He is passionate about good music. And that's why I love working with a man. It's like, he's, he,

He wants to create something. Even if it's a song I didn't write, he's like, man, here's what we can use. Here's how we're going to make this better. And he hears all this stuff. And we were doing a charity event the other day for our veterans at the Nashville Gun Club. And I was with another artist, or with Ben, actually. And I was telling him, I was like, dude, what I love about working with Knox is he pushes me

he pushes me in ways where I get my head in the studio because it's not the same obviously singing live you know when you got the mic you're like man I don't know if I can hit this and he's like trust me you can do it you know and so like working with him has built my confidence in the studio and I think that's what makes a great producer is somebody that can elevate you and push you to do things that maybe you will just step back because it's easier you know it's easier to do it this way and then not try to

Push that a little bit. Push that box a little bit. And he's like, no, dude, go for it. I think one of his greatest tools, you know, Michael, he's not a player. He doesn't play instrument or anything. And sometimes I think people think, well, as a producer, you should play. No, I think it's better maybe if you don't, like a Knox. Like he's kind of like a Rick Rubin, if you will, where like...

He doesn't know the technical side, but even better, he knows what feels good and what doesn't feel good. He doesn't know why, or maybe it's a tempo, maybe it's a key, maybe it's something small.

But his motto, you know, if it feels good, it is good. Yeah. Well, because think about it, man. As fans, all of us are fans of music. When fans connect, you connect because you feel something. Right. You know, and if you're... So if that's how you start making the record, by the time it gets to the fans, like, all that passion and that feel is in there. Well, Knox was one of those guys, too, because I sang a lot of demos for him early on when he was at Warner Chapel. And I'm like, no, it's good, man. I sang that good. It's good. And he's like, no, do it singing like this. And...

Just when you think you're right and you go ahead and do it like they want you to do it, and then you hear it later and you're like, oh. Oh, yeah. We've had a couple of those where I'm like, Knox, you sure? And it was that way with writing, too. There's a bunch of guys that I wrote with, and I'm like, that was so simple right there, but it made the whole difference of the song. It was such a simple thing. I want to get your take. So we worked with you a couple years ago, or over the course of a couple years, and

So when you walked into the studio, what do you think of the actual studio? Because that studio where we cut is the only place we've ever cut any Aldine records. It was the old Treasure Isle studio. Mm-hmm.

It's older. So when you first walked in, I remember they were you like, wait a minute. No, I love that. That's what I do. There's I love what I've learned is my life has been organized chaos since I was a child, you know. And so I feel like I'm like, you know what? I think this is where I shine, you know, and there's nothing there's nothing wrong with a big, beautiful, perfectly polished studios.

But I want to go in there where if people want to come in and watch and, you know, have a drink, create the atmosphere, you know, and then you go in and you see stains on the floors and, you know, and the water damage on the roof. You're like, all right, we're good here. I miss the smoke cloud. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's just I think I think it's just more lax, you know, and then when you're able to record like with you guys where everybody's

you know, on the same page and having fun. And it's just, it just, I don't know, it feels more relaxed all the way around. And I think everybody plays basketball

you know steps that steps that up a little bit more because it's more of not so rugged you don't feel like you're in an office yeah every aldine record there and it isn't going to change no and and every everybody sitting is still sitting in the same spots and the same people that's amazing yeah you know it says mike johnson you know and there's yeah sean feld and kurt and there's richard and so that and sitting where we you know it's where we cut emerald sky and the same you know it's really fun i mean it there was a point where it was like

is this studio going to keep standing? Is it going to survive? And it, and it burned, it almost burned down. Yeah. You know, it survived. But today it's like, I don't think I want to leave it. Yeah, man. There's too much magic in that room. I don't think I want to leave it. There's something that goes on and there's some, a lot of great albums cut in there. You know, like, uh,

Some old Kevin Welch albums that I love that are cut in there. Rodney Crowell. Rodney Crowell. A lot of Rodney Crowell stuff. I've got video footage of y'all tracking Night Train and some other things. It's still on here, and I've still got it on. You know Night Train? I'm videoing y'all tracking and going up to the... That's awesome. You know that was the very last song we cut for that album was Night Train. And we cut that, and I remember this, it was one take.

I mean, we ran it once. Trying to make it simple for you guys. No, I remember thinking, I was like, a thank you is all I need, honestly. It was, I remember very, very specifically tracking that song at the very end of that. And it just came out so good. You know, it just came out, it just played itself. There was a couple things I heard. I mean, we could have, y'all could have done different. But you know what? It's probably the truth. And going back to Michael, it's,

There has been multiple times, Michael Nock, sorry. There has been multiple times where I didn't quite play it the way I wanted to.

And I asked to do it again. He says, no, no, that felt good. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I didn't get this there. And he's like, no, it felt good. You're overthinking it, aren't you? Yeah. Well, yeah. It's easy to do. It's very easy to do. But that's a testament to Michael again. It's like, that feels good to me, even though you may not have technically hit exactly what you want. Yeah. And that's what Caleb does. I mean, when he comes in with an idea like try that in a small town, that's going to be incredible.

It is what it is. We ain't going to overthink this. Well, I wanted to ask you, Michael, just because I'm one dimensional. So all I do is write. And so I don't produce anything like that. And you are a writing artist and you know what you want. And you're a very gifted writer also. And so for me, and we were talking about it and said, hey, y'all, y'all written a lot together. And I think we've only written a time or two. And I think it was with Neil because you guys were already buddies and everything.

And I really love the song and everything. And then all the one writer is thinking about is, hey, I wonder if he's going to cut our song. I don't think people appreciate how many songs you go through per album. Oh, yeah. And then how many, and kind of speak to how many relationships you have, how many people you have texting you, hey, man, are you into our song? Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, is that...

It's got to be pretty stressful. It can be overwhelming, man. You also, I mean, cause you, you're, you're getting, I would, I would go take meetings with publishers on my own. And then, then you have the label have a publisher meetings for you, you know? So, and then they would just send you, um,

Chris would send me 50 songs, but she had gone through 200. And then I had been taking meetings with others, and it is a little stressful. And then that's when the overthinking starts kicking in. Because you're like, well, I can only put so much on here. What do we want to say on here? What's this one? And then you hear another artist take it and have a hit, and you're like, shit. Yeah.

I've never had a single on you and that's the Glock that I pulled out. That didn't work. He just pulls out a rifle. He slowly starts turning. This feels right. Perfect. Perfect.

That's amazing. Hey, real quickly, take me through this because the part of, you know, we know you, we're friends with you, but part of the fun of having guests on here is you'll do a quick little Google search and you'll find out stuff. Tell me about this show, Inside the Base. Oh, man. Yeah.

I hope it gets so is it it was a TV show that the Opry Network was doing and so the first season they would have different artists go to different bases and you're there for like three days and you film with all those guys and the men and women and and

And then you play like an acoustic show for them and their family. So you're going to a military base. Yeah. So we went to, I did the first episode of the first season and we went to West Point. And when they asked me, I said, man, here's what I do. Cause I was raised, you know, and all my family, majority of my family's first responders and veterans, my grandparents and family started the first fire station on two acres of our land. My grandpa went and bought a tanker and an, and an,

engine and got a loan and started because we were so far out in the country that the closest fire station you know was still a little too far and i think something might have happened like a house fire a trailer fire or something like that out there that you know by the time they got there you know is what it is and so they you know and my whole family ran that with some different you know people in the community and it was a volunteer fire station for a long time now it's county they just dedicated the engine to my grandfather not long ago but uh

But yes, I just I was raised around those men and women and having respect for those men and women and understand that, you know, the reason why you have the chance or the right to pursue happiness is because men and women lace up boots and leave their families. Amen. For all of us, you know, and for the love of this country and for their kids to be left with something that, you know, you can't be born in a trailer in Florida to, you know, a bunch of first responders and, you know, Florida.

Country Red Nets and somehow connect that to Nashville and be, you know, sitting at a table with you guys after seeing y'all a handful of times playing the Tampa, the Tampa Amphitheater, you know. And so I said, if I'm going to do this, I want to be in it.

Like, I want, like, if they run, whatever they will allow me to do, I want to do. And I want to show people what these kids, because, I mean, dude, they're 18, 19, 20 years old. They're fresh out of high school, you know. And West Point, you just don't get in there. Like, you have to have letters from, you know, a congressman and different people just to get accepted in. And then they do their eight weeks of training. And so...

I said all that and they're like, oh, that would be perfect. And then when that alarm went off at 3 a.m., I was like, what have I done? Yeah, they're on a little bit of a different schedule. Yeah, they're on a different schedule. I'm like, I'm not going to bed till now. You want me to go run, you know, two miles? But, dude, it was the coolest thing, man. So we went, we ran. I was able to do their last march out.

And we're the only civilians ever bring a camera crew into West Point. And they showed us all around and, and you spend, you know, you spend three days with these guys and girls and you start getting their stories and you're then you're talking to their higher ups, you know, and kind of what got them here. And, and it was just real inspiring. And so they did that season with different people. And then the second season came around. They're like, Hey, will you host the season? I was like, yeah, absolutely.

And so, I mean, we went to the Coast Guard. We had some guests come in. I got Brantley came out to the Army bases out west. And I went with the Coast Guard dude and had to do training with them and jumped out of the helicopter in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and got rescued from them doing all this just insane stuff. And I'm like, dude, when you're floating in the middle of the ocean and there's camera crews watching, but they're so far away and you're just waiting for the helicopter to come back. You're like.

I did not think music was going to bring me here. Yeah. Yeah. Could he speed that up a little bit? Yeah. There's fish here. And so it ended up being one of the coolest things. And sadly, the network,

I don't know if they sold or whatever happened there. And so they were trying to get it back going. And they're in talks with maybe selling different people. Yeah, because the show is so good, man. We filmed episodes on that second season, man. Like, you know, going to one of the army bases and, you know, learning how they jump and doing their training with their parachute jumpers and, you know, going out with the...

With a Navy dude and doing a full reenactment of like if a boat is coming in and we're getting attacked by terrorists, which is all cool until this guy pops up on a boat and he starts firing blanks at me and I'm on the other side. I have to fire back at him. All fun until you're actually in it and some dude is pointing and I'm going, please God, let him be a part of this. And I didn't really put it together that he was going to be firing back. So on the episode, it hasn't came out. I hope it does. But on the episode, I'm like holding their light fire and I'm like...

He's fired. Yeah, he's fired. He's fired. And so it was cool, man. I hope it's one of those things, man, that music allows us, you know, I think God gives us a platform for a reason and when you can use it to shine light on those men and women and like I said, those charities and those people have always been close to my heart and being a kid of a 20 plus year paramedic firefighter and knowing, you know, my uncle and my stepmom's an RN, my sisters are nurses, my little sister works for the police department, like we're all surrounded by it and seeing people

Well, a lot of people don't understand is when they come home, you know, seeing, you know, because, you know, my dad, my uncle, they were working on one of the busiest stations in that area. You know, so there were times where you'd see they'd see the most horrific thing you've ever seen. And then they kind of got to go, are you good? You're good. And then call back in, which means they're up for another call, which could be not for the whole rest of the night. Or they could have seven more and it could be something as simple as, you know,

some sweet lady fell out of her bed and I just got to pick her up, make sure she's fine to the most horrific thing. And so my heart has always been with those guys and girls because I know what that's like, you know, seeing my dad and, you know, nights where he couldn't sleep and still this day, just random, you know, stuff in his head. And he would call, you know, we'd be at my grandparents' house and I was like, you know, nine to 10 years old, whatever. And my grandpa, grandma would wake me up at two in the morning and

And I grabbed it. Say hey to your dad. I'm like, he dropped me off here. You know, so I said, hey, he's like, you good? And he'd hang up. And later on, years later, I asked him, I was like, dude, why would you call us? You know, like knowing that we're here. And he would tell us, he's like, because I worked a call on a

deceased eight-year-old who had dark hair, you know, and all I could see was, you know, so it's just hearing that voice, you know, and thank people and around, you know, take our, those men and women for granted because they're there, you know, and you don't realize that that's not a guy that just plugs in to a wall and then walks out with a uniform, like RoboCop, you know, he just goes home to his wife and kids and,

Sadly, they're in a situation where that could be the last time, you know, with police officers and, you know, the shootings and all that stuff. And so it's seeing that side and growing up around those guys and not just in my family, but, you know, all my dad's buddies were all, you know, first responders and stuff. So it always just been something that that I love supporting. And that show kind of just blended it all together for me. And I hope I hope the second season comes out, you know, somewhere on. Yeah, we did really cool. It's incredible stuff.

I mean, there's so much we wanted to get to tonight. We might have to do two episodes with Michael. Yeah. So real quick, you know,

How many shows a year are you doing now? Oh man, we're still doing probably 80. That's great. Yeah. And you've had radio success, you know, and it's, it's such a great career that you've carved out for yourself. And like anytime you can succeed in this business, it's hard to get through or cut through as an artist. Yeah. You've had radio hits, you're, you're playing shows, um,

I've seen clips on Instagram. When we started playing on your stuff, I was starting to follow you on your playing club shows. And you're treating these club shows like you're in an arena, which is amazing. I love watching the videos and killing it out there. Thanks, man. Well, we learned it from you guys, dude. Literally, dude. I'd be like, y'all just watch how Dean's banned. That's what it is. Just do it. Watch you guys. Y'all were like the first guys to blend that rock and roll and...

But with the new feel to it, you know what I mean? With a little bit of the hip-hop-ish, you know what I mean? I don't know. Just like you were saying earlier, it took a little bit of everything we grew up listening to, and you guys made a sound out of it. And it was something that none of us as a fan, especially in high school, you get your first truck and you drive around. Anything that we can do to help any fundraising...

you're doing yeah man first responders and things because that's that's what our song you know it was the truth about all that stuff and it was like and we'd be we'd be more than honored yeah it really is that's the mission of the podcast you know we kind of get sidetracked on some certain things but that is it at the heart of it

We're trying to look out for each other. We're trying to be good to our neighbor. We're trying to do anything we can for anybody else, especially those kinds of people that take care of us. Yeah, man. 100%. And Kayla was still curious about his song. Yeah. I noticed Neil's left hand hasn't come up since the gun comment. I don't know which comment. Only a gun owner notices that.

I hadn't heard anything. It was 2020, but I'm sure it'll come back around. You're probably still in the lead. I'll leave it like you left it. Not that I've been thinking about it.

It's fantastic. Michael, you're a good human being. You're a great friend. You're a great artist. We're proud to know you. Thanks for being here. Thank you, man. Thank you. Thank you, bro. Thanks so much. Congrats to you. Thank you, man. That was really awesome. We've known Michael for a little bit, and obviously you guys have too, but I learned a lot about Michael. He's a great guy. What a good dude. I want to tell them that the first time we were recording with him, really funny story. I meant to bring this up.

So we got a 10 o'clock start, you know, session start at 10 a.m. Oh, I forgot about this. That's when you're cutting his record. You're cutting his record. Yeah, his last record. This is so good. And so 10 o'clock start, you know, and usually the artist will show up, I don't know, anywhere from 10.30 to 10 till, you know, or 9.30, sorry. And well, 9.30 comes and no artist, you know. 10 o'clock comes and just we're sitting in our chairs, nothing. 10.30 comes, no Michael Ray.

Not starting yet. I'm not sure exactly what happened, but it was noon, wasn't it? It was. Yeah, it was at least that. I forgot about that. It was so funny. And we cut the first song, you know, you,

You got to have the artists there, obviously, to hear what's going on and know that you're in the right key or you're going to, hey, maybe we need to raise this a half step. And we just cut the first song like, well, we hope this is good. The music version. That's so good. But I can't remember what happened. I can't remember, but it was probably a funnier story than I'm allowed to tell. I don't know. Well, yeah. But anyway, great guy. We love Michael Ray. And he really is like- What was his excuse for being late?

I think... I'm actually not sure. And maybe, like Tully said, maybe we're not supposed to remember or tell. But... No, we'll have him back. We'll get him to call for the... Yeah, we'll get to tell the story a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I was honest today. You would appreciate it. Really? And like Tully, I talk about being late. And I'll get back to Michael. But...

But it made me think of it. It was White's Creek. It was a long way. It's like 50 minutes away. So you know I'm going to be late, you know, already. There's no doubt. And I was late the last time I wrote with these guys. And they're great, talented, and all this stuff. And I got there to say, hey, guys, I'm sorry I'm late. And they said, oh, no worries. I said, you know what? I said, I'm going to be late. I'm going to be late every time. And then one Damon, the co-writer, he goes, you got a baby and everything. I said, I do. You know what?

It wouldn't matter. I'm going to be late. See, that's where we differ. No, but I owned it. I don't know. We differ. I was raised late. You know, we were late to everything, but I'm going to be late. I know how I'm on time. You guys know how to be on time. It causes me anxiety. You watch the clock. The morning goes. You watch the clock. I do. I'm not late to this, but I push it. Just leave earlier. You know? I know. It's really interesting. It's an interesting thing.

Yeah, but that's for another time, but back to Michael. You're right. It is for another time. We'll get to it. But back to Michael. Okay. I appreciate it just asking him, just anytime you get an artist like him to ask, just from like a songwriter perspective, because when we write something...

all you're thinking about is your one song, you know, or your two or three or four, however you write, you know, with an artist and you text them and say, man, great day and everything and they're sending you back fire emojis and money and then, you know, you tell your wife and everything and say, have a good day. She says, man, fire emojis, I mean, I just,

Probably, yeah. Let's get a pool. I mean, it's happening. Meanwhile, it's a year process and they're writing hundreds of songs. It was a great question, by the way, because I never thought about that dynamic of how many of the people that he writes with is texting and saying, hey, that song we wrote. Yeah.

And he's like, love it. Oh yeah, love it, love it. And it's like, that's a lot. I tell you what's tough though. I remember from years when we were producing nonstop, we were producing, producing, producing. And we go to the labels and publishing companies and pitch sessions. They'd be pitching to us for the artists we were producing. And it runs together. You're hearing eight to 10 songs per meeting, two, three times a day.

And then sometimes you may miss one because everything sounds... Yeah, it starts to run together. I used to lose perspective on, okay...

you know, what are we doing here? You have to turn off your production mode and go to song man mode. I mean, to like tune that out and be totally focused when you're listening to a bunch of songs back to back. But it's a different thing, you know, which I think is a tool for us now is like writers versus producers. It's a different mentality. You know, writing, you're trying to write the best song you can write with the most hooks you can write in it with the best melody you can write. And as a producer, you're thinking, okay, we need all those things, right?

We also, what's the most commercial? What's going to move the needle? What's different, but not too different, especially if you're producing a new artist or something like that. What's going to separate it, but yet still get played, even though this is the better song?

might not be the better pick. But as a writer, it's different. You're just trying to write the best song. So it's an interesting dynamic with that. Yeah, and you're writing that you may spend, we may spend one to two to three sessions writing one song. And we are freaking sold on it.

We love it, right? And this is the hit. They're your babies. Put it on the radio, it's a hit. And then meanwhile, like you guys are listening, producers are listening, artists are listening to a lot of songs that are kind of like the one we're sold on. You know, and so... What do you mean he passed on it? Well, he heard one like that three weeks ago. There's not a song like this. It's impossible. That's an interesting business. No, we were. We were talking about this. It's a...

I don't think people realize how much goes into all that, like how many songs are heard by an artist and listened to. And as a writer, you've spent, like you said, Kayla, like a couple of days trying to make it perfect. And somebody somewhere is barely getting to the chorus and trying to turn it off. That's exactly right. That's the painful part of it. Hey, I've turned them off. I remember as a producer who's getting pitched, I've turned them off as fast as the intro. Nope, wrong feel.

What? Yeah. Was that good? No. I don't know if they loved us or hated us, but we would be brutally honest. Nope. Wrong feel. So let's see if you know what you need and you know what you want. I get that. We make it to maybe a word, maybe a line. Like, oh, nope. Especially if you're down to that one or two that you're looking for. That's that needle in the haystack like Aldine needs. First single. You've got the whole record. We need a first single. We need a show opener.

Right. And then, like you say, you hit the opener and it's like, nope, that's not it. But back to Michael real quick and we'll finish it, I guess, with this. Man, his commitment to veterans in the military and first responders, that stuff is inspiring. It's great.

And like you said, any way that we could help with that, I think that'd be amazing. It's just, it's nice to see somebody that has that respect, you know, like we do. It's hard to find. It is hard to find. And, uh, you know, it's a common bond. I think I love that. Uh,

Guys, we appreciate you listening. Please like, please subscribe, follow us. Like we're going to say, leave the comments. We're going to dig deep in the comments, right? And whatever your amazing DV. Yeah, DV. I thought about him today. He said I'm terrible. Terrible Neil. Terrible. You're terrible. You're afraid and scared. What is that? We're going to work on it. We're going to work on it this week. Those are two words I would never put, afraid and scared. But it's such a vague statement. Thrasher is terrible.

I don't even know what that, what's that mean? We'll work through it. Terrible at what? We'll work through it. Yeah, we'll work through it. Thanks guys for listening. Thank you. See you next week. You don't want to talk some more. Make sure to follow along, subscribe, share, rate the show, and check out our merch at trythatinasmalltown.com.