S1 E7: Head of the Snake
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

In our investigation of Danielle Richards' disappearance, a lot of names came up. One of them was Robert Carey. You know, people were a little reluctant to bring his name up because he instilled fear in a lot of people. His reputation was scary. I've been doing the violent crime and gang thing pretty much for the 20 years I was on the street. I'd come across all kinds of folks with all kinds of reputations, and I'd have him up in the top five as far as a scary reputation.

I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is There and Gone South Street, Episode 7, Head of the Snake. All that I know is I see you in my dreams. Reach out in the dark for you've been lost to me. I'll never give up, no matter how defined.

Just a note, the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised. On the evening of April 14th, 2010, Robert Carey was found on the floor of his jail cell with a shoelace wrapped around his neck. He had been incarcerated on charges for an illegal prescription drug operation. But there's so much more to this story.

According to a 2010 article in the Philadelphia Daily News, Robert Carey was also linked to the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron. In fact, there are three sentences buried toward the bottom of that article that I want you to hear. When Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron vanished from South Street in February 2005, rumors circulated that Carey was the hitman who made them disappear.

A source familiar with the area in which Carey ran part of the drug operation said that the street talk had implicated Carey in the couple's disappearance. A law enforcement source said authorities eyed Carey but never declared him a suspect. I asked FBI agent Vito Rosselli if he was aware of that article. Yeah, you know, I won't comment any further, but the article is...

Very interesting. That article pretty much said Robert Carey did it, but law enforcement never charged him and never publicly named him a suspect. Of course, there's also the fact that he's dead. So I'm interested to hear how the FBI first identified him as a person of interest. If you have a case that's a clean murder...

One of the first things you start looking at is who has the motive, and then you try and find some connections to individuals that were built for that kind of activity. And then you would build the murder-for-hire case that way. Through the investigation, a lot of names came up. One of them was Robert Carey. He was subject of a pill distribution ring and was the head of the snake of that investigation.

According to a 2010 Courier Post article, Robert Carey headed a scheme to obtain and sell opioids like Oxycontin and Percocet. Between 2008 and 2010 alone, Carey obtained over 140,000 pills using counterfeit prescription pads. The feds learned these pads contained the names of real doctors but had a phone number manned by Carey's people. They posed as employees of those doctors. So

So whenever the pharmacies called to verify those prescriptions, they wound up talking with Robert Carey's associates. So how did a guy who was arrested for selling OxyContin and Percocet get tied up in the investigation of Danielle and Richard? ♪

Vito said the drug task force within the Pennsylvania Attorney General's office passed along that tip. They brought forward to me details that involved my investigation.

That's where Robert Carrey's name really came up and that's where I really started focusing on him. So I started digging into him and he was a bad dude on paper. I clearly never met the guy, but I certainly talked to a whole bunch of folks that knew him. His reputation was scary. He was a tough kid, smart, street smart individual who had a lot of people scared.

We found that out pretty quickly. My team learned that Robert Carey attended North Catholic, a private all-boys high school in Philadelphia. At its peak, it was the largest Catholic high school in the world. It's closed now, but you would never know it, because to this day, people wear its moniker proudly. It's like a brotherhood, a fraternity.

We reached out to a dozen of his classmates, but no one wanted to talk to us on the record. And then we found this. Court records said Robert Carey once bragged to his girlfriend that he had, quote, "'tight friends strictly from fear alone.'"

There are a lot of individuals I spoke to that were personally on the receiving end of some of his violence. At least one of his arrests dealt with being so physically violent where, you know, he took matters into his own hands and put somebody's eye out. He put somebody's eye out. According to a 2010 Philadelphia Daily News article, that man owed Robert Carey money, $2,400 for drugs. And when he didn't pay up, Carey began stalking the victim.

He eventually found the man and in January of 2010, beat him up so badly, he broke the victim's nose, fractured three bones in his face and knocked out his left eye. Like literally knocked the guy's eye out. In March of 2010, police arrested Robert Carey and charged him with attempted murder.

We didn't just hear these rumors from the FBI. We've spoken to sources that also confirmed these rumors about Kerry's reputation, but they were all too afraid to come on the record, except for one. And he asked us to keep his name anonymous. He was a fighter. His main thing was, you know, to scare anyone else that may owe him money. And if he had to beat you up,

He's gonna do bad damage. And that's exactly what Robert Carey did. This guy owed him money. He waited for him, snuck into his work behind him and literally saw the guy's eye fall out of his head when he was beating him and figured he killed him. Like he literally said when his eye fell out of his head, he thought he was dead. But here's the thing. That victim survived the beating. And then, according to the Courier-Post,

Robert Carey tried to intimidate a witness to that beating, but it all backfired. He talked about beating this dude and he bragged how he went and did it because he wanted people to know if you borrow money from me, I want my money or you're going to have fear of this type of stuff happening.

In April 2010, an article ran in the Philadelphia Daily News that detailed everything from Robert Carey's past, his alleged prescription pill empire, the beatdown of that victim who lost his left eye, and how he was rumored to be the hitman who killed Danielle and Richard. My team talked with one of the authors of that article. He told us that after that article came out, several people from Robert Carey's neighborhood called or wrote him, questioning his sanity.

They warned him that Carey was a big man about the block, who routinely took care of matters with his own hands. And they warned the author that Carey might come after him once he got out of jail. FBI agent Vito Rosselli. I'd come across all kinds of folks with all kinds of reputations, and I'd have him up in the top five as far as scary reputation. He was, of course, of interest. But unfortunately, they found him dead in his jail cell up in Bucks County Correctional Facility.

Jail officials told the Philadelphia Daily News Robert Carey hung himself with a shoelace. But the investigation into Robert Carey's connection to Danielle and Richard lived on. I asked Philly TV reporter Dave Schratweiser what he heard. There were rumors that before he died, he penned some type of note in which he talked about the Ian Bowen Patron case. There were reports before that

The note part of it surfaced that he told an inmate in prison that he was involved in that, or he knew people who were involved in that. We chased it, and to my knowledge, neither one of those two things ended up being true. I asked FBI agent Vito Rosselli about the note Kerry was said to leave behind. A suicide note was left. That's public knowledge. Of course, I viewed that suicide note

There was a lot of interesting statements, as you could imagine, but there was no direct confession to Danielle and Richard's disappearance that I found. No direct confession. That answer almost made me wonder if there was more to the story. But all Vito would say about the note was that it was five pages long. Of course, that's left everyone connected to the story wondering.

Just what exactly did Robert Carey write in those five pages? Here's Richard Patron's cousin, Stacey. I do wish I could see that suicide note. And I think the fact that we don't know what's in that suicide note says more than anything.

Outside the handful of people who have read the note, its contents remain a mystery. But Stacey said she knows enough to have formed her own theory about what happened to Danielle and Richard. When they actually said the words murder for hire, we were shocked. Once you get into murder for hire, it's personal. It's someone with a reason. The fact that it was so professional, that it was so clean,

According to the missing persons flyer, Danielle was 5'5 and weighed 117 pounds.

I mean, he certainly didn't expect Richard plucking in around 200 pounds. To Stacey's point, Richard was 5'9". He played hockey, and his family said he wasn't someone who could just easily be taken down. This was so professionally done that it was able to handle that hiccup.

without skipping a beat. And lo and behold, Robert Carey goes and hangs himself. That's when it begs the question, what did you do based upon your life of crime that bothered you so much that you had to take your own life?

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask.

I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs. From the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy.

So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I thought about what Richard Patron's cousin Stacey said, about how tight-lipped the FBI was about their investigation, how they didn't reveal much to the public, except in 2008. That's when they held a press conference and said Danielle and Richard might have been victims of a murder-for-hire plot. Two years later, the Philadelphia Daily News reported that the rumored hitman was Robert Carey.

All of this, of course, is speculation. The FBI has never said it was definitely murder for hire. But that didn't stop more speculation about who the intended target was. My colleague Ben and I talked about this at length. I think Stacey said there's like a 2% chance that Richard was the target and a 98% chance that Danielle was the target. But a 0% chance that it was both of them at the same time is what I heard her say. Right. Where John...

I'm not sure he necessarily feels that way. Danielle's brother John said something in the last episode about who he believed the intended target was. These two people are creatures of habit. And if either one of them were a target, they could have very easily gotten either one of them by themselves. They had to have been targeted together. What John believes runs counter to the FBI's theory. If the hit or the target was one person, they're going to wait

until that person is alone because they don't want witnesses or involve someone else that has nothing to do with what this is about, right? And expose themselves to more hassle. That to me makes more sense than a planned hit being carried out against two people when it was supposed to be one. If there's the outside shot that it was the two of them,

The only way that's a possibility is that if someone on South Street saw them together and then put in a phone call. Right. And called someone who's been... Or worked in network. Or worked in network saying, hey, you're never going to believe this, but they're actually together tonight. Alternatively...

If it had to be on that specific weekend... If February 19th was the planned night... Then they had no other choice to handle both of them. Or there's also another scenario where this was kind of an escalation. Where the intended outcome was not necessarily to kill one or the other, it was to send a message or threaten one of them and it went out of control.

I think motive is going to be tied with identifying who was the target. Ben is right. I know this is a question we've asked from the beginning. But as we've learned more, it has led to more questions than answers. Was it to kill one of them? Both of them? And now I keep thinking of this scenario about it being one of intimidation. Could an attempt to threaten escalate to something so much worse?

These questions we are asking will ultimately lead us to why. Why they are gone. Here's FBI agent Vito Rosselli. Motive for me was always a big challenge in this and still is a big challenge because there's a couple of competing motives, but both kind of fit this investigative theory with how they got rid of the truck, who may have done the actual deed. But here we are 20 years later, no arrests are made.

A 2010 article in the Philadelphia Daily News reported that sources in law enforcement and on the streets named Robert Carey as the alleged hitman. A lot of names came up. One of them was Robert Carey. I'm not talking inside baseball. That's kind of almost common knowledge at this point that his name comes up as being associated somehow in this couple's disappearance story.

If Robert Carey was the alleged hitman, did he have a motive? Or was he simply the hired gun? And why did he end up dead in his jail cell? And how? Jail officials said that he hung himself with a shoelace. But why? It again made me wonder what was in that note he left. But Vito said that after Robert Carey's death, something strange started happening. After he dies in April of 2010...

More people started coming out of the woodwork. I started getting all kinds of folks, informants, tips coming in about Robert Carey and associates of Robert Carey.

repeating rumors or talking about specific interactions that he had with Robert Carey, both on the good side and a whole hell of a lot on the bad, violent side. I asked my anonymous source, who claimed to know Robert Carey, if he had heard any other rumors, anything about his violent side. He definitely killed Shannon Fox. She was a bartender. Shannon Fox. I had to look it up.

So according to a 2002 Philadelphia Daily News article, Shannon was also known as Shana Simzak. Early one December morning in 2002, the 31-year-old bartender was found unconscious at the bottom of a stairwell in her apartment building. She suffered significant head injuries. After four days on life support, Shannon died. We were actually standing on a corner. I did personally hear shouts.

Bobby Carey say that he undid the light bulb in Shannon's apartment and had a hood on. He talked about how they would never find DNA because he wore a tight hood and gloves. I asked my source why Robert Carey, who was also known around the neighborhood as Bobby, would do something like this to Shannon Fox. Her boyfriend got arrested for pills and supposedly...

The pills were Bobby Carey's. His goal was to not kill anybody, probably, but I know he was going to smack the guy with a stick or whatever he had in his hand. I don't remember directly, but he said that he waited up there in the dark. He was telling the story to a couple other people that was there, like bragging about it, drinking. Again, here's Agent Vito Rosselli. There was other stories about getting retribution.

stalking people and getting retribution for perceived wrong, whether somebody ripped him off in the drug business or did him dirty in some way or the other, or he perceived he did him dirty. People that talked to me would tell me stories about how he would exact revenge on those specific individuals. And it was pretty personal. And then kind of understood that why maybe people are a little reluctant to bring his name up because he instilled fear in a lot of people.

At the time of his death, Robert Carey was 40 years old and pursuing a law degree in college. Although he wasn't married, he had a fiance. We reached out to her, but never heard back. We also got in touch with Robert's mother. Although she did not want to talk to us on the record, she told us, "'He was my son. I loved him. Why is anyone going to believe what I have to say? I'm supposed to say nice things.'"

Like most people in Philly, Robert Carey's mother said she was aware of the story about Danielle and Richard's disappearance. But she said her son had absolutely nothing to do with it. And we can't ignore the fact that police have never charged Robert Carey or even named him a suspect. When Robert Carey was found dead in jail, he was facing attempted murder and felony identity theft charges. And according to Vito, those were just the charges that actually stuck.

He had a pretty extensive rap sheet and yet no convictions. They all basically got dismissed. According to court records, between 1990 and 2010, Robert Carey pled guilty to three separate simple assault charges. He's twice pled guilty to criminal conspiracy. He also pled guilty to theft, attempted theft, and criminal mischief. Each time...

he received probation. Along with aspiring to be a lawyer, Robert Carey also had other business ventures. We combed through public records and learned he also owned a Philadelphia bar and grill called Krabby's. What I understood by a number of sources, he had an illegal gambling hall, some gambling tables up on the second story. Never really took off from what I gathered. Krabby's was open for about five years and closed sometime around 2006.

Now, this may be a stretch, but we learned from one of Danielle's friends that Danielle had a side hustle. She used to work for a company as a dealer that hosted private gambling events such as birthday parties and charity functions, and sporadically picked up shifts in the months before she disappeared.

And then we found this out. Back in 2005, Robert Carey owned a townhouse in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. And if Mount Laurel sounds familiar to you, that's because it's the same township where Danielle Embo and her son lived. Danielle's condo sat roughly five miles away from Robert Carey's townhouse. So there definitely were opportunities for Danielle to cross paths with Robert Carey. But did they? I never came across a specific incident or time or place or a witness that

that was able to put Danielle and Robert Carey together. There were plenty of possibilities, but no direct connections between Robert Carey and Danielle or Robert Carey and Richard. I asked TV reporter Dave Schratweiser what he knew about Robert Carey. I never even heard of the guy before, to be honest with you. He got on my radar screen because the attorney general's office held a press conference at a time when the opioid epidemic

epidemic was kind of just starting and the fake prescription scam was everywhere. And they announced that Robert Carey was kind of at the top of the chain in that operation. And it was a big operation.

According to a 2010 article in the Philadelphia Daily News, that operation was a multi-million dollar scheme. So Robert Carey had plenty of money. He had power. He was feared. It begs a number of different questions. Like, why would someone who bragged about nearly killing someone with his fists and traded on his reputation of intimidation and fear decide to finally get a conscience and kill himself? And to that end,

If he was the rumored hitman, why get involved in the murder of two strangers, especially if he had people to handle matters for him? From everything I've learned about the guy, this was either a personal vendetta or he did it as a favor for someone else. There's all these possibilities here, but there's no connection.

There's no link. There's no thread that leads you to say, yeah, that's what happened. There's nothing to connect these possibilities thread-wise, evidence-wise, link-wise that would lead to a conclusion beyond the reasonable doubt.

In the last episode, we talked extensively about a guy named Rob LaFleur, the one who owned a couple strip clubs in a junkyard called Gianna's. Gianna's has since closed, but according to FBI agent Vito Rosselli, it was the only Philly junkyard back in 2005 that had an industrial crusher. Common sense, you want to look at how a truck could have disappeared, and Gianna's was a logical conclusion.

Rob LaFleur being the owner was obviously somebody that we took a very hard look at. So I know it gets a little confusing here. There's Rob LaFleur, who owned the Philly Junkyard with an industrial crusher. And then there's Robert Carey, who was rumored to be the hitman. And guess what? We learned that the two of them actually knew one another. I don't want to call them best buddies, but they were associates, close associates, friends.

Just like Robert Carey, Rob LaFleur was embroiled in some serious investigations. A 2011 Philly Daily News article said LaFleur's two strip clubs and junkyard were being investigated by the FBI in an alleged kickback scheme. And there was more. LaFleur was also facing third-degree murder charges after a 2009 altercation in the parking lot of LaFleur's strip club, Oasis Gentleman's Club.

One patron was injured while the other was struck and hit the pavement. He later died. But just like his associate, Robert Carey, Rob LaFleur never made it into the courtroom. Unfortunately, when I started refocusing on Rob LaFleur and Gianna's and the people associated there, Rob LaFleur was dead. He had died of an overdose. Rob LaFleur died in 2012. He was 46 years old.

We spent a lot of time going up this path of Rob LaFleur, and we dug up a bunch of good, solid leads from that investigation. But I never closed the door on Rob LaFleur. Unfortunately, he's dead.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories. Firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio.

I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. I've collected the stories of hundreds of aspiring little Hitlers of the suburbs, from the Nazi cop who tried to join ISIS, to the National Guardsman plotting to assassinate the Supreme Court, to the Satanist soldier who tried to get his own unit blown up in Turkey. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil,

They're just some weird guy. And you can laugh. Honestly, I think you have to. Seeing these guys for what they are doesn't mean they're not a threat. It's a survival strategy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America. Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For decades, the Mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end, sparking a chain of events that would ultimately dismantle the most powerful crime organization in American history. It sent the message to them that we can prosecute these people.

Discover how a group of young prosecutors took on the mafia and with the help of law enforcement brought down its most powerful figures. These bosses on the commission had no idea what was coming their way from the federal government. From Wolf Entertainment and iHeart Podcasts, this is Law & Order Criminal Justice System. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

We've talked about Robert Carey and Rob LaFleur and how they were rumored to be connected to Danielle and Richard's disappearance. Neither of them have been charged in this case or named a suspect, but they both died, Carey in 2010 and LaFleur in 2012.

There's also Danielle's estranged husband, Joe Imbo. Just like the others, Joe has never been charged or named a suspect. There's also another name attached to this case who not only is alive, but he's currently sitting in prison. A man named Anthony Radesky. Here's Vito Rosselli. Anthony Radesky.

He was somebody that law enforcement was looking at shortly after the disappearance because he killed two people around the same time that the couple disappeared, and in a pretty gruesome fashion.

Radesky killed two people in the community right next to where Danielle Imbo lived in a township called Maple Shade, New Jersey. In March of 2005, about a month after Danielle and Richard vanished, Anthony Radesky carried out the first of his two murders. According to a 2005 Courier Post article, Anthony Radesky was out on parole at the time and was living in a halfway house. That's when someone caught his eye in a nearby motel parking lot.

He observed the owner of one of the motels walking with what he thought was a money bag from his car to his office. So he decided to go back and rob that guy. But that robbery went sideways. In court, Radesky told the judge that when the owner screamed, he shot him. And instead of taking off with the money, Radesky only got away with the motel owner's car. About a week later, Radesky struck again. This time, it happened inside his home.

According to a 2005 Courier Post article, Anthony Radesky had done work for a flooring company and invited the owner of that company to his house under the guise of a business transaction. But Radesky really wanted to collect a debt he felt the victim owed him,

Radesky wound up firing seven shots at that man, hitting his head and chest. And believe it or not, the story gets even worse. After Radesky's stepson heard the gunfire, he ran into the room. That's when Radesky held a gun to his stepson and ordered him to stab the victim. And that's what his stepson did, multiple times. The victim died a short time later.

For the next week, Radesky used the victim's credit card and checkbook to steal $40,000 from the victim. Meanwhile, he stashed the victim's dead body in the basement of their home and left it there for a week before disposing of it. He takes that body and dumps it in the woods because it started getting a little too ripe and the body's found and then that's when things started unraveling for Mr. Radesky.

Police later arrested Radesky and his stepson. His stepson pled guilty to reckless manslaughter and was sentenced to six years, while Anthony Radesky pled guilty to two counts of felony murder. He was sentenced to 60 years in prison without the chance of parole. Anthony Radesky wasn't as a bad dude

Did some bad things at that time. Keep in mind, these two murders happened five to six weeks after Danielle and Richard vanished. So of course his name came up, and of course he was somebody we had to spend a lot of time investigating. The thought was, if Radesky was capable of these two murders, could he also be responsible for killing Danielle and Richard?

Vito said law enforcement took a good, hard look at Radesky to find that answer. You know, I sent dive teams in central Jersey, dug up farms based on information that was coming from people close to Anthony Radesky. A forensics team spent a good chunk of time going through Radesky's house. We spent a lot of time in the basement, had him siphon out a septic tank, had to go through all the sludge looking for evidence.

That won me a lot of friends. But all that dirty work didn't uncover any conclusive evidence that Radesky was involved in the murder of Danielle and Richard. The amount of promising directions and leads that this case has taken, it had a lot of ups and downs, where you thought you're on the right track, and then...

You run up against a wall or you think you're on the right track and you just can't take it any further because all your leads are dead or gone. Today, Anthony Rudesky is in a maximum security prison in Illinois. In the winter of 2024, our team reached out to one of his attorneys in hopes of talking with him. But that conversation went nowhere. In the last episode, we talked about that meeting with law enforcement that Danielle's brother, John, sat in on. The one where they wrote names on a whiteboard and then talked about motive.

We've spent much of this episode doing the same thing. And when I look at the names on our whiteboard, two of them are dead. One is in prison on an unrelated conviction, but none of them were ever charged or named suspects in this case.

To me, the most intriguing name is Robert Carey, the alleged hitman. Here's a guy who had been running a lucrative prescription pill ring. He had money. He had a fiancée. He was studying to become a lawyer. Why get involved in killing Danielle and Richard? And conversely, why did he take his own life in jail? In the nearly 15 years since Robert Carey died, no one in his circle has talked.

And while we spent the last 20 minutes running through our whiteboard of who could have been responsible, the victims' families and friends have been living through this for the last 20 years. Here's Philly TV reporter Dave Schratweiser. They were frustrated, both sides. They're looking for answers. And that was, in my mind, always the key for them. Just tell us something. Just tell us something about what happened here.

As any journalist or member of law enforcement would tell you, you try to keep emotion out of it, but it isn't easy. I have to tell you, I've never met a warmer family who kind of embraced the people who covered the story. And it wasn't just me. It was reporters from other stations. And they were affable, kind, and cooperative. Dave said he spent the most time with the Patrons and formed a bond with Richard's father, Richard Sr.,

He was always very welcoming to me, lovable guy. If you spent five minutes with him in a room, you liked the guy. And Marge, kind of the power behind the throne, you know, the quiet power behind the throne. And, you know, listen, the thing that kind of hurts my heart the most is I have seen the pain in both of their faces, in Richard's daughter's face, reliving it, trying to figure it out. It's the mystery of it. It's the no answers part of it.

that just kind of grabs you and kind of throttles you. You're like, who would want the car and this couple to disappear without a trace? Those are nightmarish kind of thoughts to live with every day. When we talked with Marge, she said her husband became a different person after their son disappeared. It's never the same. He's not all there some days, you know. Might as well have killed him too.

Marge said her husband has been riddled with guilt, that he should have done more to protect Richard. He said,

Up until now, you haven't heard from Richard Sr. He's been in and out of the hospital and not well enough for us to interview him. But recently, he was back home, and Ben was fortunate to meet with him. Richard's disappearance, that put a period in my life. There's everything that happened before and after.

They spent a couple hours talking about everything, from Danielle... To what he thinks happened to his son. We also learned about how difficult it was when the investigators turned the tables. He had to take a lie detector test.

You know what that did to him one day when they brought him in to take a lie detector test to say, you know what happened to your son. That's next time on There and Gone.

If you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Limbaugh and Richard Patron, please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line at 215-546-8477. Or contact the There and Gone team at thereandgonepod at gmail.com. That's thereandgonepod at gmail.com. We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

And don't forget to rate and review There and Gone. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. There and Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Ben Fetterman. It's hosted and written by me, Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman.

The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans. Our associate producer is Kristen Melchiorri. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Ricci. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Aruga and Tanner Robbins. The Arringon's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Baines and Dari McCauley of Noiser. Music library provided by Myb Music.

and a special thanks to both the Patron and Etobre families. Your strength and willingness to share your stories have been invaluable to the making of this podcast. Thank you for allowing us to honor the memories of your loved ones and to help keep their stories alive. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Molly Conger, host of Weird Little Guys, a new podcast from Cool Zone Media on iHeartRadio. I've spent almost a decade researching right-wing extremism, digging into the lives of people you wouldn't be wrong to call monsters. But if Scooby-Doo taught us one thing, it's that there's a guy under that monster mask. The monsters in our political closets aren't some unfathomable evil. They're just some weird guy. So join me every Thursday for a look under the mask at the weird little guys trying to destroy America.

Listen to Weird Little Guys on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

For decades, the mafia had New York City in a stranglehold, with law enforcement seemingly powerless to intervene. It uses terror to extort people. But the murder of Carmichael Ante marked the beginning of the end. It sent the message that we can prosecute these people. Listen to Law & Order Criminal Justice System on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ♪