The AI garage door mystery
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I just don't get .

IT just wish some of you do the research. Can we figure this out?

Hey all, i'm john lin hill and i'm a hosting a new podcast advice called explain IT to me. Here's how IT works. You call our hot lying with questions you can't quite answer on your own. We'll investigate and call you back to tell you what we found will bring you the answers you need every wedding day starting september eighteen th. So follow explaining to me presented by clavo.

Hello, what convert chest, the flagship podcast of searching using artificial intelligence? Welcome to the teacher. Hi my friend. New day appears this here.

Hello, joana stern is going to join the show and little bit, uh, there is a lot of news this week. Search GPT is here that's open a eyes competitive to google. It's built right in the chat.

Ch of T, V. That is apparently anounced A I powered search. I O S, eighteen point one with apple intelligence arrived with something .

I did arrive. We can say that with certainty.

with a puff of smoke. And then I just like earnings stock, well, we had a lighting around and very excited items. Uh o and we should mention apple also announced 后 半年 new max。 Yeah so we're onna say a much to apple conversation for when Joanna joins us. We should with the news search GPT launching or I guess search in ChatGPT is how the framing IT. It's funny how much we talked about google and google search changing in the web and whether A I would kill google and and here IT is and it's kind of like.

huh yeah I I, I actually really, really glad that was your reaction because that was mine too. It's like if you just imagined what a other no three quarters baked search product would look like from OpenAI, you would have gotten IT almost a hundred percent right. And I think two things about this really interesting to me.

One is that, a this is the thing that open eye has been signing publisher deals for a disclosure. Vox media, the first parent company, signed one of those deals. That's all I know about.

IT IT exists, but they've signed lots of these deals in recent months. They've had this web caller doing suffer a long time. Now that web caller has been really it's all been building to this and in open a eyes sort of typical fashion, they don't make a giant deal out of their biggest launches.

But like this is a big one for open a eye. IT is the thing that gives ChatGPT real time information, which is I would take the single biggest hole IT has had so far. I also think it's fascinating that they just built IT into ChatGPT, like when the first was a thing, IT was going to be search GPT.

And I think open eye has struggled to figure out how exactly to package and product is all of this stuff. And just shoving IT in all inside of the chat, bott has turned out to be the answer. And I think this thing looks fine. I think open the eyes is making some wild, obviously incorrect claims about IT. But the idea of what IT is seems pretty straight forward and useful.

The at on the chapt is super interesting, right? Because google in opening night are coming at the same problem from radically different directions. They have kind of the same idea, and they are arriving very different rifts on the same core user interface.

So google, right, google wants to be an answer engine that they've talked about google search that way for such a long time. So you ask a question and tabu links and the answer cards and knowledge panels, and now you get A I over years or so, kind of a mess. But the idea that you you just ask a question in google, and that delivers you and answer, has been the core thesis of google search for quite some time.

And they're they're getting there, but it's still very structured. But you are not supposed to chat with google search, right? But it's still like ask a free form question in this text box and google search will figure out and dollar ous answer, open eye started not with a web, but with just like free form chat, right? Just like talk to this robot, I might try to bang you first find out where .

did this information come from.

who know? right? Like here's a some weird stuff and we're adding all of this structured information to IT with search now right by crawling the web. And so it's they're just coming at IT from two by two radical different positions and they they're closer r to each other than I think they want to admit.

I I think that's right. And I think it's because in a lot of ways, there just aren't that many answers to this. Um I was say one of the things that strikes me just looking at even some of these early screen shots of what opening eyes is doing, uh OpenAI actually appears to be a Better citizen of the web than google in the way that they're implementing B A I search stuff. So like we will put the link in the shown as to roberson story, SHE saw I got a demo but I talked to the folks who are making IT um but let me let me just describe like this one screen shot in the deliver story. So on the left side, which is the the sort of OpenAI chat p chat window ah this person has typed to what are some great ways to fix up the backyard and IT goes out and looks at the web and then .

comes back and IT totally Normal clearing yeah, not that's how everyone talks about fixing of the backside backyard.

What do .

question mark? right? So but I think i've sitting down on my computer research that's exactly yeah good uh but .

so the first thing that delivers is A A thing that appears to be an article from the spruce stock com called fifty four back our ideas to upgrade your outdoor space which a is very funny because that headline is so clearly for google yeah ah that IT is borderline nonsense yeah fifty four backyard ideas doesn't mean anything .

but anyway uh so I just was within the first two lines of this demo we've just left the english language. I weren't .

gone what yeah um but IT has IT says the spruce stock com on right underneath IT IT has the spruces logo right next to IT the little favor on uh and then four images underneath that that I assure pulled from that article and then basically A A sort of multi step summary of some of the stuff in that article then after the rate, IT has a whole side bar that says stations.

And then here IT has five links to a bunch of different websites showing similar stuff, right? Fifty stunning backyard. Is that for every kind of space, your D I Y guy de, do a backyard makeover on a budget like all of this is just google east is so funny and it's just been surfaced in these new ways but like in in the guys of being like a publisher who cares about having your stuff surface and not just like stolen and rebook aged, looking like a chatbot, this is actually pretty good. This is just one screens and I I am confident that open your eyes going to pick the things that make you look good in its marketing. But like it's not a particularly attractive user interface, but it's pretty honest about the web.

Yeah, again, we don't know anything. On radio, we had nick thomson, who is see of atlantic, the former editor of wired, on decoder. He talked about what he wanted out of the atlantic, still open eye.

And a lot of what he talked about was I want, I want influence over what these results look like, right? right? So the publisher deals a lot of, a lot of IT is they they all gave up too much to goal, was too much free for all.

They were mad about IT. Now they have a licensing deal, they have a contract, prisons points, a contact and they there's some back and fourth here about what how to make this best for everyone. And so I think you can see that here. I will also, just to keep harping on a sone example, point out that for all the C I, for all these millions of GPS running nuclear, hot, boiling the ocean, the answers the most cutting edge A I in the entire world came up with for what are some great ways to fix up a backyard or creates a seating area, incorporate outdoor lighting and at a fire pit, that's what we got. So chairs, lights in fireplace.

we did IT everybody.

And maybe, look, maybe the person doing this demo has never been backyard. I come back to that all the time. That's really worthy. Uh, came from for me.

Is that yeah I mean, maybe if you ask google this question a few years ago, and you ve got one of these extremely over seo articles that are loaded up with a filter links and not really written for people, that's a worst experience. And so maybe just presenting these extremely basic ideas in a nicer experience is all the innovation we need. But then you like.

So all we did was we just cleaned up a little bit. We took out some of the trump boxes like there's not a belly fat add here, right? That took all of the GPU in the world. Sam altman is literally traveling the world asking kings and queens for billions of dollars to build chip fabs. So the robot can say, in corporate at our lighting, that's what we're doing OK.

A, I think the answer is closer to just straight dly. yes. Then anyone would like to admit which we're going to get to in a minute when we talk about earnings.

The the fact that this thing is just a slightly cleaner interface on top of roughly the same information is kind of what everyone is landing on, right? Like whether your perplexity or what being has been trying to do or now open eye like even even google things like, yeah we agree that the search pages kind of a mess. Uh, let's let's do something Better.

And the question then of how do you monetize any of that, who knows? Uh, the opinion wouldn't really tell Kelly they're only rolling in out now for paid ChatGPT users. So that's one pretty straight path.

But eventually, this will be available to free people and how that makes money, especially because this is very it's not easy to run these kind of searches in real time in that gets expensive to run inference on an existing model. It's a whole other thing to go get real time information from the internet like that's a much harder problem to solve computationally. I yet we will see if this becomes a thing that actually works at any scale for any of these companies.

But like, he is so so straight forwardly, just a slightly Better interface on top of things. And you even listen to these companies talk about IT. And it's like, oh, clicking is so arduous, you have to find information for yourself.

And there are certain things in which, sure, like sometimes there is a piece of information buried at the bottom of a support document. And what I would like my search results to do is just pulled that piece of information out and give IT to me, right? Like I I need to know how to hard reset a gadget.

I just wanna the answer I and often you do have to look on ten websites to find how to hard regit this one. What are some great ways to fix up a backyard? This is like very slightly Better. Then what you would get just by clicking any of these my pages on google?

yes. And I will say, you know, we're chair picking the one example, but it's the example they gave us, right, right? There are other things we have to use IT when it's it's interesting to try to review search engine we've like had this concept for when we should review google.

And then IT doesn't mean anything like try to give google a score out of ten. It's seven like that. Yeah yeah uh, so anyway, to find some way to evaluate these tools to actually like address the breath of how people use them. But right now, IT is very much. We just got rid of the ads like this market had a monopoly player, the monopoly player basically in citified.

The whole thing, the entire economics to make the content are people will click on one web page on your entire site maybe once a year because they searched your backyard ideas so that one page has to make all of the money all at once. That's weird. So that time we've load up on the page of the ads and tram boxes and that and like maybe this brakes IT, this isn't going to send a lot of traffic to this process or whatever sources are in here, we don't know.

So just a long road to come. yeah. Well, I think you .

your point about the detention they're feeling with these publisher deals, I think probably says more about this design than you then open a eye would like IT to because like this is what's happening with matter too.

right? There is news this week, uh, that matter is working on a search engine of its own, partly just to reduce reliance on google and being because I think everybody would like to reduce lines of google and being, but also because as meta AI gets more useful, they can not set as five hundred million monthly active users like it's big. It's working. People are using IT.

Uh, having good real time international information just allows you to do lots of new things, right? And I have to assume if i'm OpenAI, the best case scenario here would be something that doesn't feel anything like search at all and is not a list of links, but just has this giant new capability of real time information, which just opens up a huge set of things you can suddenly do with ChatGPT that you couldn't before because its information ended like, yeah IT literally IT would tell you I only have information up to, I think he was amid twenty twenty three the last time I checked. And once you get rid of that cap, and I can just start to ask questions about like the world, as IT is happening, G, G, B.

Team becomes much more powerful. IT also runs you into lawsuits from the publisher on plant earth, which is what has happened. So you can you can see how like OpenAI kind of lawyer at its way into this design where it's like, okay, we're going to do some of but also there's can be a bunch of big as links on the right side like is everybody happy now? I don't know.

Will be we paid you money? Will you shut up? right? And that's back and fourth year.

And I think you know carly asked the questions in a brief ing and you can see IT in in the story that will link um but they're like we're working with our publisher partners and now the game is instead of doing S O to get to the top of the rankings, it's two deals with opening to get in the list and get the money and hopefully have influence. All these things look like and that's just going to be hold different world. We look at meta and meta doing search. I think one, this is just evidence that A I regardless of either it's good or bad or whether that works doesn't has created the feeling that search is now a competitive market.

Yes.

if the google entrust case, you know, goes the way that we think IT will go on appeal and google remains unable to just pay its way into default payment, uh, well, that means a lot of people could get placement in IOS to be the default search engine. Those browser ballots that have not worked in europe for a decade but like might get imposed on android, uh, in this country as well.

Maybe you want to put the metal logo there and say, meet up powered AI search or OpenAI ChatGPT powered search to say there are other options for you for search and beyond google. And so the market is opening. Some combination is like regulatory effort in the existence of A I as a whole, plus google search as a product.

Having platoon into whatever IT was last year. All this is his conditions for web search to change. yeah. The question that I have very like existentially, is does any of this create incentives for people to put information on the web? Because right now, all the incentives are for use, a creator or a publish, whoever, to put new information on tiktok yeah, or instagram, als or youtube, where you might actually make some money like the a to b of I made some information on the web and made some .

money is as fussy as IT has ever been yeah I i've spent a lot of time talking to and reading kind of O G bloggers recently. Um we just did the verge cast of the origin of the word podcast and a lot of the folks involved with that were also like really early bloggers. So I have sort of back in this sphere and the the overwhelming thing I keep hearing from these early blogger is like we we blog because we want to it's not about the money.

It's about it's about having something to say. And it's like that's well and good that the the like number of people for whom that applies is this big and and IT is like a in a lot of ways, it's like a bunch of due to sold startups in the nineties and needed something to do all not be an as all about IT, but like that's what IT was. And and you're right in the idea that i'm going to be able to do this open web something blog, find other ways to make content.

The I there is not any more A A sort of obvious or even like straight line too. I can make a business out of this because all of the interface is just getting subsumed. Uh, and even if you if you're competing to be a link in ChatGPT, you don't have the lawyers to make the deal with OpenAI. So you may not show up in there. So suddenly, the list of even available sources to you might be much smaller than I once was because you just don't have the engine with which to play the game and open a eye might decide that it's easier to just shut everybody else out then to fight the fight website by website all around the internet.

The weird danger of this is that will go back to a media ecosystem that looks like the one we had before the internet, which is, I think, hard for a lot of people to understand or see. But what i'm describing is you have a lot of people who write paid newsletters or have small audiences that pay money behind payable ls or even medium size audiences behind payable ls because that's the best way to make the money.

And we can see that all over the place creators is making money directly. Casey, uh, great friend of the verge platform's doing great, but he that decides the audience, right? And like there's a lot of news letters ers that have had escaped, see like platformer has they're doing really, really well, but that they're just payment.

They're just that and that's happy. C they're onna be or in there some that are even smaller. And then you have the mass outlets that are free, that are cake kept by wear deals yeah and that is cable news or like whatever other big free distribution, wherever has made the deal to support that.

And so most people experience the things that can be subsidized in that way. And then a lot of people are going to have small magazines or small blogs are payable. And that that weird thing that the internet did, which is let everyone just sort of compete freely against each other, is kinder, just like getting crushed by all of this.

What amounts to just a bunch of interface changes, right? But it's a cleaner search interface. And then behind that is like a total reordering of the internet into paying walls.

And not I think the question implicit in that is how different is.

at least for writing. I want to be clear that for writing, yeah video site is very different on the .

podcasting side is very different well, but even even on that side, I think the question the question is what to ask like how different is kind of the tiktok algorithm verses like the unknown guy in the corner office who decided what was fit to print, right? Like IT is IT is rules.

It's just a question of which rules and how transparent are they and do they make sense to you and the idea of there being this ecosystem that was too big for anyone player to control that's gone right like that. That's long gone. And I think what's been gone longer than a lot of people realized.

It's just that now we're getting new interfaces to see some of the stuff. And it's it's making IT really obvious how hard IT is to make IT if you don't have either the sort of unknowable blessing of an unknowable algorithm or some big thing to fight on your behalf. And somewhere another well.

i'll give you an example um is going to think about all time. So back up for he was just on the way form pancakes with Marcus David. We wish back out all the best with her youtube channel. If you really good post, you should go listen to IT.

Uh and they had a uh just a brief conversation about a thing that i've heard so many tecuya to talk about all time, which is the audiences on tech youtube are overwhelming nail and even getting to ten percent female audience breaking two digits and to youtube is IT like hard like people talk about IT. I think mark said i've never i've only seen one and there might be another one like but that's true for our channels, but it's impossible. That is not reality.

That is an algorithm c truth of youtube. The youtube algorithm has decided that women are not interested in textiles and so IT doesn't show them to them. And so all of these channels have these horrible skills, and you can you have to fight IT.

I don't know how to fight IT. I know that this is an alteration truth because we're run a giant website where our gender breakdown on our website of people who come to our website directly looks nothing like red IT is way closer to fifty fifty because that is fucked in. True, like everybody likes technology, like stat from our sales team all the time is like women make like eighty percent of technology purchases and decisions and average household.

That's just a real thing that we think about all the time. And we are able to address IT. And yes, we are buffeted by alcoa, fired by start for both.

But the algorithm truth of youtube is that that's a whole audience and you you will have to fight IT and I hope that all of them fight. I'm glad they're all talking about IT. It's good that they're transparent about IT hopeful.

They always some change. But that is the that's the mass media now is like algorithm media. So i'm just hold that as A I certainly, these other kind of distribution algorithms hit the mix. There's some resorting in a way that makes more sense, yeah right like that.

There's some resorting in a way that allows small players to not have to chase scale, which was the big that was the big myth of, like the facebook video era is like the small recipe site was like, now we make facebook. Something horrible is happening there. IT was the big miss of the search era where we think blended down into this weird, semi robotic english.

That makes no sense, anyone. And if the next turn is the A, I can just read everything as it's written and make IT sensible and still distribute IT. Well, that will allow things to be more different. But the danger is you're going to end up with small, the medium size payable media in the mass algorithmic media and the middle of that will be, I know the fuck mental that will be IT will be weird that's .

what I got and IT will feel like all you're doing is feeding some A I system more training data yeah can I give you a Better case scenario in use this week that makes me very excited by A I search? Uh, so google, uh, just launched a new thing in google maps that IT caused ask maps. And I think this rules and it's basically, it's just german, I search, but pointed only at google maps. And so you can you can start to do things like, ask IT uh, the example they give is things to do with friends at night, which again, not not english.

by the way, there a range of answers to the question. acceptable. Unacceptable is a wild.

okay, but like, think about your own google maps usage, at least the one I encounter all the time. I am my okay, we want to go to dinner, but I want to like, find a place that i've been before, which is, in theory, information google has like, what's the best piz a place .

around google know about? Mean is using 的 my previous google search history， like i'm out here like a halloween, so i'm out here searching for, like masks, black clothing. And I like what to do at night. And it's like rob bank things to do friends and I .

brought several banks. I I don't know, I doubt IT, that's that's everybody's long term plan. But what I think is happening here is that google is actually just doing this with the existing map data, which is basically like all the place data has, all the navigation data has, uh and crucially, all of the like reviews and stuff that are in there.

So I think that I encounter all the time is looking for a place to a dinner. And then I I find myself coming through reviews, looking for one of two things. Either there is good outdoor seating or IT IT is meaningly kid friendly in some way? Uh and just the ability to like ask that question at the top of the search becomes incredibly useful.

And this I feel zero plumes about because no one is on google maps for the purpose of being on google maps, right, that google maps is a means to an end every single time. And all of these places that put their information on google maps do IT so that I will go to a place and and the goal is to get me to the place I want to be more quickly. And I think there are lots of interesting, complicated, like bias problems to figure out with all of the AI stuff. The idea of just being able to be like.

what kid .

friendly place can I go to this weekend? That isn't likely to be super busy on a saturday night.

Like having just described elp.

i've described what yelp would like to be and has pitched itself as for forever. But what I just described on yp involves opening a filters menu in selecting thirty one things in coming through one hundred listings.

And like pit is the whole point of the L M is like IT will understand natural language and will be able to communicate and more natural alisal language.

I mean, we we get comments on our site, and I almost ten out of ten can tell them writ by there is a stilted form that is just the way goes um but the idea that the in the input and output of the computer is much more natal language, that's the thing everyone breaking out about, right? That's the platform shift. That's your click will.

It's not your digital crown, i'm sorry, but right, that's your multi touch. Yeah that's the thing people are freaking out about and so you get to okay, I can just talk to google maps and google maps and just talk back to me. You're still just looking at a database of information at a google, right? yeah. Is still you you're clicking the filters with just with natural language.

right? But that's that's the thing, right, right? That that changes the whole interface. Like they they have a gift. This story that m th route, that IT IT opens up a bars page on google maps。 And then you type in under a thing, this is, ask maps about this place.

You say, do they have a full bar? And what IT appears to be doing as IT go, IT looks at the menu, see that IT serves beer, wine cottages and liquor, uh, and then looks at the reviews to see what people like and just puts that in the three sentences and hands back and says, yes, that is a four bar uh, some people say, what are the contains? Are delicious like that? excEllent.

That is an extremely good user interface that takes something that would have taken a bunch of filtering and collating and searching through reviews and just answers the question. And that is like that always been there inside of google maps, and they've just never quite put IT all the way together before. And I have this time, I think that's aten.

It's because I think amazon is washing the same picture for ask questions about this product and in all search reviews. And my experience with that is, yeah, you can do IT in a work and everything is so depressing, singly averaged out yeah, like the AI generated summary of the average set of amazon reviews or is like some people like that, some people said, IT set their house on fire, right?

What am I supposed to do? IT, yeah, well, and again, IT like IT, it's ai all the way down, right? Because you get more and more people who are using A I to right these reviews.

The the A I is like naming the products for god sake, like the the promotional images are being made by genre. So it's like there is a mess that gets created in all of this if IT doesn't go well. But I think the idea of and say on amazon, nobody cares about the content of their amazon picture. They want me to buy their thing. And so I think the the extent to which A I search can get down to that more quickly that the stuff I think is really exciting.

Yeah well, it's very obviously races on like, yeah, we have spent so much time talking to google in pissing of so many S, U. people. But do the s people all come around? They know, they know IT IT is very funny. They are all romaine and other like, oh, shit, you are right about the comment. Um a google this week, by the way uh in a workshop basically said we don't know of start traffic is going to back to .

websites and that you should prepare for IT.

Not to just saying that every elder me now aren't just like here is so we're going to try this very closely, David. You've ve been making the point that the money behind this is just all over the place and no really know what it's going to go. And but there is a lot of earnings this week.

Google head earnings, Michael hearings, redit is proper first, first time ever snap, not so much. What you, what you, what do you see? So okay, I I took a bunch of notes .

on the earnings report this week. And uh, I think as everyone knows, we kind of hate talking about earnings on the show and also in general because who cares? Uh, companies make money.

It's fine. Going through the earnings reports and listening to the calls itself, just a bunch of the same things kept jumping up to me. And so I just want I wanted to throw a couple of the things I have noticed you, and i'm curious how IT makes you feel.

Uh, the thing number one, that just jumps out to me over and over and over again. Is that the thing that A I is being used for is to make everybody's very good at businesses even Better? Uh, that actually IT might be true right now that the single thing A I does best and I mean best in the terms of like most money making, is connect an ad to a person, right, which is like fundamentally a big data problem.

And and add targeting has been a question on the net for forever. And, uh, google talk about this, about how youtube advertising has gotten Better. Uh, mata, talk to Better about how I don't advertising.

He has gotten Better. Their revenue is going up as a result. But the fact that A I is being fundamentally monetized as an add targeting thing is just so fascinating to me. And I think I think where hat would do for a long run of that that yeah what IT is, is there is a mountain of data about me. There is an advertiser who is looking for me and the A I can find me faster than any database software we've had before.

Oh, you you that just scratching the surface, that's a step one because step two is what add are you gonna see, right? total. And every one of these companies is explicitly talking about what we'll just have the AI generate your custom ad for you.

Yes, millions and millions and millions of iterations of the same creative generated for poor people. Specific tag lines are specific needs. We know you are searching for caps in in black boots.

If you thought about crawling hooks like like exactly that thing, it's going to be weird. And there's a reason that they're all chasing video generation because the thing they absolutely want to do is make video ads with infor insertion them. Yes, they're already there.

They're priming. And I don't mean this is is in a conspiracy y way. I mean, this is the reporting and this is what is happening. They are priming the creators in our audiences to interact with the ice.

Meta meta has a thing where if you're an instagram fuser, you can help people talk to your AI trained on your instagram da, which by the way, includes your threads posts, which is wild. Yeah, our friend ki out to police business insider, uh, she's been engagement biting reads just a bit yeah forever and SHE look up her instagram trained our threats instagram boat is just an engagement by boat. It's like, perfect.

That's perfect. Um youtube has this thing right? They say out loud to creators.

Don't don't worry about all this fan audience engagement, we wanted to make videos, make great content, will let the butt chat with your with your viewers the turn to you can make the branded content with an A I video of yourself. Is it's not that's not a conspiracy theory. That is the plan now.

And I think that's for one perspective that is fascinating. Will the verge have something to write about for the next ten years? Yes, I go get IT like i'm there. There will be a lot to unpack with all that, but you just see where it's going and is all all of this effort right now is pointed to advertising yet.

Let me just do one more thing really quickly on the earnings thing because I don't anna talk about earnings because I hate earnings. But I found this fascinating quote from jan. Wang, the C.

F. O. Read, talking about exactly the thing you're describing. I just read this, uh, SHE says so we launched a couple of quarters ago a headline generator using G A I, where you can just put in the U R, L from your website and IT actually gives you reddy headlines that actually drive improved ad performance.

And having reddy type headlines in your ads really does make a difference in the add resonance. So that's just an example of, I think, what's possible in terms of our creative yeah and that is actually such a simple version of the thing that is just like here here's a redit, but that you can just plug a headline into and I will teach you how to read IT. And like I just think about all the brand who did all that like awful Cindy stuff on twitter for all those years. This is to get so horble and so A I driven in so many ugly ways biot mark sucker .

berg said more A I generated content is coming to facebook and instagram and maybe even threads yeah there they're .

find that this this is a future or not a bug like IT to its. So if so is and everybody is, find a this. So that's one thing, is the ads.

And then just the two other things I just want to say out loud because I feel like i'm losing my mind talking about A I with people. Uh, one is that, uh, I think we all still massively overate how expensive the infrastructure for all of this is. Almost every one of these companies has like gone out of its way in its earning reports to talk about the increased cost, just a physical infrastructure of supporting A I.

And so like same otment is that they're being like, I need seven trillion dollars to build data centers to make all this A I stuff possible like the money is going to be crazy and the numbers are only going up. And I think like anyone who wants to say we're an A I bubble, like those are the costs that are going to pop the bubble, uh, that thing number two, and then the number three. And this is just the the most important point in the thing I want everyone to remember of that ai.

Is that anything other than like back of house A I that is doing like data analytics and helping customer service and all that's anything other than that is a total money pit that there is very little evidence is actually working for anyone in the world like go read these earning reports. They all start with the CEO being like, here are some cool, magical things that we think we're inventing and then the CFO comes on and is like all of that has cost us sixteen billion dollars this year. Here's how we've made our money like over and over and over.

That's what IT is. All of this other stuff is being built in service of like being cool and exciting and getting in front users. All of the actual utility, and more importantly, all of the actual money here is the boring B2B cra p tha t nob ody wan ts to tal k abo ut. That is the A I story.

If you wants to hear more about how a is flipping over the advertising industry in creators in general, you should go listen to the decoder episode, uh, with amy lenzing, who is the sea of digital. Oh yeah, that was a good one. And we did that in front of an audience.

There was a lot like moments and I was fun, uh, and I asked her, what is a different creator and influencer? Got no great eye speaker, by the way, if you're ever that world, because no one is no one really knows. Um but inside of that we talked about this boring B2B stu ff and wha t the y're eas ing eff ort and IT yea h the re's a b ig the re's tha t we' re goi ng to hav e AGI l ik e fla shy noi se and the n the re's the lik e we are doi ng Bet ter at tar geting rea lity and to be goo d.

The ad targeting reality is fine, right? Like all of that is well in good. And and those things are going to be very meaningful to a lot of people in their jobs are going to make a lot of companies.

That's all great. Let's just talk about what IT is, right? Like OpenAI makes most of its money from that stuff, not by bit of building digital god why we open.

They haven't actually made more money and this went yet. So it's got a way to get not any workers uh, and by the way, what they will disrupt is google search, which is one of the Richard businesses in the history of margin business. It's not, I guess, that I know we're going to be doing for the next ten years, assuming that there are still websites. Important, important qualification .

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We're excited. Talk to you. There's, I mean, it's apple intelligence. Ces arrived that I was eighteen point one overlies, a different era robot.

Now there was what .

came before and others today.

Tim cook did tell the wall sty journal that I did change his life.

So there is actually a lot of apple is to go through with you. Uh, apple had its mac week. They announced a mac mini with an ford ship.

It's tiny and cute. We got to talk about everything is on the bottom power button, on the bottom of the mac. Many, the U S, B C.

Port is still on the bottom, on the new magic mass. This new imac, very colorful, also has an m four chip in IT. Uh, and then I O S, A teen point one hit on monday with the first threads of appeal, intelligence and IT is true. Tim cook said that having his email summer for him changed his life. Let's just start with apple intelligence because honest, we can get through IT in thirty seconds.

David IT took me three and a half days after installing I O S A two input one to realize that I had IT on my phone, uh, because I opened up the mail APP to look for something and was like, oh, it's doing some of the things and that's the extent of my experience so far with the main APP. There's been a lot of like productivity apps out there that are very excited about integrating all of the writing tools.

Um i'm sure they are fine and useful for some people. The notification summary seem fine. I like, I cannot.

I was prepared to be disappointed by how little was actually going on in this first round, vital intelligence. And it's actually even less exciting than I was afraid of. Wait.

but you use the apple mail APP.

No, I use IT when occasionally I have to search, uh, and gmail is. But IT gmail search is sometimes very good and sometimes a nightmare. And for whatever reason, apple mail search is actually occasionally very good. So every once in a while I just wander through my inbox.

I don't use the apple mail APP and am always it's just well to me that if you use gmail, use the apple mail. That is not the point of this conversation.

Well, but I kind of is and I think I been thinking about this tim cook thing a lot since that stories came out. We made a lot of fun of tim cook on the show for saying he uses every apple product every day. Uh but the thing about apple intelligences, I think if you religious ly and exclusively use apple apps, IT is probably appearing in your life in some way.

You're getting some of the writing tools. The keyboard stuff is popping up. It's at least like maybe slightly more present. But like I do most of my email in gmail, which offers me lots of other weird A I things that I don't need but has essentially no awareness of our intelligence, which is just yeah, the splitting of this ecosystem is just getting weirder and weirder.

I think that's one of the reasons the notification stuff did kind of go so viral because it's like right there on your lock screen and you have A I straight in your face summarizing things in a funny or disappointing way.

But like what an incredible example of how A I is not actually intelligent. That's the first thing that everyone is experiencing is notification summaries that have literally no context or relevance. We're understanding of what is happening like my ring camera every morning. The notification summary just crack me up because IT IT sounds like there is a home invasion .

every single day in my house. What was the one you shared yesterday is .

like people at the front door back the front door.

back door and driveway right now, literally. And so I actually this is why, let's be honest, i'm here to talk about the ring notifications that I that I that I talked about with crank federally. Well, that was the garage notifications.

But the smart home notifications are the best part. I don't care. They're not a intelligent.

They're amazing. This is mine from ring right now on us. We should bring up the spring shot missing dog with ninety nine on its back.

Multiple people at the front door two minutes ago. Multiple people are there now. IT is a halloween as we're taping this, but there's no i'm looking at my camera, no one is there and one person showed.

yes.

And because yeah, it's because there were you know people going in and out of the house from A M on and IT summer.

So there was one person and there was one person and there was a dog. And IT goes, there are multiple people and a dog outside of your house. Yes.

it's funny because that is, if there was actual intelligence, sort of noisy smart homes, sensor notifications are exactly what you want, that intelligence to help you sort through. My back door opens and closes five hundred times a day, and I only want notifications sometimes. And you would think in A, I would be like, okay, like we see this pattern.

We're going to we're going to pair this down and be like the Normal stuff happened this morning. This one didn't happen at the right time. And maybe that should should be in ring.

Maybe the smart of matter should do IT maybe to be somewhere else. But apple intelligence as IT summary as notifications, it's just the clearest demonstration that IT doesn't actually know. And like eight, these L L ms. Don't actually know what they are talking about.

The part that I talked about with federal in my interview was the example I gave him, which was working really well for me and still does is the garage because it's a very it's open, open and close and that's IT IT open closes all day long. And then there is a summary, IT says IT repeatedly opened and closed and then IT was recently closed. And that usually is like that very helpful to me. Yeah.

isn't that exactly the same thing? Is just putting the one that says it's closed at the top of the stack, which is what I would chrono o logically do like what what new problem is this solving for .

you that I know IT was opened and closed a lot of times by my family, and IT was recently closed.

I guess here's the question that i've been thinking a lot about. And every time i'm forced reconsider the amount smart home notifications I get, I asked myself, do I need to know this? Do I need to know that max went in the other house fifty times in the back door? Like that's just my parents to know that in the eighties, they had no idea where I to be clear.

And i'm like actually, I don't need all the additional help in this ai and we should get off from of motivation because it's a little corner case that is very funny. I do think it's a good demonstration of fact that alms national to talk about, but in this case, it's almost blinding how we useless sof these notifications are. And the only thing that happened is because you're slightly different, you're paying attention to them again, know all this is still useless, and I will just quickly start tuning them out the way that I tuned out most of my smart home notifications.

I was just on the road for ten days and I didn't turn off my smart home notifications. And maybe there's an emotional attach like I feel a deeply emotional like with this because i'm not at home a deeply emotional some emotional .

attachment to this mark.

only connection to your family, to child connection number for ten days. And that's where i'm going with this was seeing the smart home notification.

And so this is .

really symbolic and they mean a lot to me, and i'm not going to let them go. And I would like to thank apple intelligence .

for resurfacing .

them .

like my children and give a squee twenty years .

ago when .

I saw that first smart i'm notification with you, with your partner, I knew they were .

the one joy i'm going to make you like a year book of your kids. But it's just going to be smart home notifications .

about what it's so true it'll be be like they'll be like child playing basketball on front on front garage, right? Child now driving to prom, yeah child now bringing home man or women and they're .

going to play that one Green day song in the back.

Apple intelligence will slowly get more intelligent. As crag federation said, this is a decades long arc yeah to getting a Better that's a direct quote.

So um I want to come back to conversion, which is a couple of at W S ra tech life conference. I you want say in notification summer for one more second outside this part of stuff, the other promises, we're going to summarize your emails, we're going to summarize slack, whatever other notifications you are getting.

Has that been useful? Because I will tell you, I laughed at IT for a day or two and then turn them off because I actually found those notifications, because I actually found the summary is to be more confusing. But ultimately, they were more distracting because I like what is going on. I got one from the family of chat that just said my niece was jealous and felt left out and IT was her friends. We're going to IT an event like he was just saying i'm they're going and i'm jealous that i'm not going in this concert and that was IT and he was, like otherwise totally Normal, except the summary made IT seem like a highest stakes thing in the world.

Yeah, my mom sent me like a really emotional text said to go to a funeral and IT was a whole thing and then I just said, expresses gratitude and I was like, really, really long, like very long amount of text and I was like, okay, I mean, yes, I think the question is their funny and the point of them is to save time. But they're not saving any time because you then go and read the full thing anyway so IT doesn't really achieve anything well.

it's that it's that uh, okay thing that is actually, I think in a weird way like the intended response and is also why i'd hate IT for texting. Uh, I actually think is useful for email in the sense that you get a lot of email and a huge portion of that. All you really need to know is that IT exists.

Yes, right? Like IT, IT is IT is some piece of information that you need to be made aware of or some kind of like confirmation or and that's the same thing you can take from a giant long email into eight words. And I can be like tight and go on living my life.

What I have discovered with the A I summaries for text is they have made me such a worse text really, and i'm a bad texter anyway. But the just the thing where I have to open a message in order to understand what is in the message. Goes a long way toward me being a reliable responder to that message. And so now i'm getting a lot of things where it's just like the message, just like mom on her way and my right and I just move on and I like, no crap.

I have to respond substance.

right? It's like it's not even as good as like the tap back eo gies. It's just it's just me saying, okay, I can now move on because i've been given this personality free piece of information and then I know that's a text for my mom. I should go respond to that and that that is I turned that off immediately because I was like preventing me from actually engaging with messes .

to yet to that point. So I found the text for my mom that was really long like one of those from your parents. It's like they don't send IT in chunks, just all like they wrote a long, long letter.

I don't enough to SHE .

sign her mess SHE. She's Better, Better, just said, reflecting on life, expressing gratitude and wishing a safe trip home. And I found that so funny that I sent her the the summary and said, look how this summarized IT. And I never actually responded to her long, thoughtful note. You just enter .

the screen I was like.

look, I would edited you.

You're like.

this is so mean and he wrote, actually like, I guess I could have been shorter yeah like.

what is a bigger future? And I O S eighteen for me is send later and messages, because I never want to be the person or replies instantly, even though I see a lot of things. Yeah, just being like sentient.

Five more minutes makes me reply to more messages. It's a little hidden. They got IT wrong. They got the U. I wrong. They should have done that the way that slacked does IT, which is you just hold down the send button and once you schedule, you got to like through the many button.

Yeah yeah. So it's a .

little messy, but IT works. And that is like to your point, David IT makes IT takes me out of this is a status message I like seen and done. I've taken the action and then i've moved on.

And because there I might be bunkers about this. But my feeling is like if there's a little delay in the response IT makes IT so that we are not about to have a conversation. Like I ve just answer your question smart.

I was about to say that core, you playing IT cool with.

I play with everybody all the time. Yeah.

i'll live. Realized text. They send this in three days.

Sorry and see this I right, sorry, I and see this immediately, an unscheduled for a couple .

days from but actually that's genius because you are you are indicating to to the receiver. Hey, i'm not like available right now. Like, oh like i'm in middle of something super important and you to know I just SAT here and scheduled my message but you're you're unavailable, you're available but you're not available is you're signal .

which right i'm being responsive. This is not about to be in chat like i'm just letting you know that and I have a infinite amount of um in coming where I just need to deliver an answer and not have like a twenty five minute conversation and that's thought and like people always see screen track ths of my homework reen and it's always just like so many unread and it's like this is what the A I should help me do is well, here you're just going to pass through all of these.

We figured out the ones you need, the answer we're going to helping get through and instead, these summaries, I think there's just not useful and I I keep going back like we've invented l EMS. We are desperate for them to solve problems. This problems seems solvable. And then you like city are holding the solution in your hand. You like you have the door open and closed a lot now, like actually send the later, which we could have invented ten years ago, is much more useful than the notification summary.

Apple intelligence does include in this the prioritize priority notifications where IT is supposed to help. I haven't used this a lot, in fact, of production, have turn that on here instead of do not disturb for the podcast, I used IT. Once there I was on a video shoot and I did, I mean, I send IT did prioritize like notifications for my wife and family and like group chats over slacks.

Children continue to grow up in .

the back over my ring, notifications that I am deeply emotionally attached to. You have going to put that on right now.

Have you used any of the other I O C teen point one apple on intelligence features for real? I like the notifications of the ones everything for real, because what you said in your face but the writing tools, the image tools fine like i'm a very precious writer. I'm i'm not really fond of letting A I write for me.

I've avoided them mostly. They're a little buried. They're not in your face. No.

they're not. But I will say I i've just come to realize that i'm not the target audience for the writing tools and that from were three people who break sentences for a living and that is not actually most people and so like that's just .

yeah i've used IT like in notes, like i'll sometimes draft like P R notes and stuff in notes and so i've used IT there. But I don't find IT that it's like doing much for me. I mean, I use notes a lot.

I use the notes up a lot. But that's another place like like I felt I felt like the list in the summer zone tool might be helpful because like sometimes I like make sloppy list and like, okay, clean up the list. But then I just like IT adds bullets in front of my dashes and like, I already had dashes in my list and then I just .

had these are problems that the very basic algorithms and microsoft word soft twenty years .

ago in front dash I never used like there were podcasts in .

like one thousand nine hundred and eighty six we would have been like, I know say this IT is new mac like sd dashes to the bull. Um I have used the court record with the A I transaction. Very good. It's really good.

That was when I was going to say to and you can do a voice memo and dump IT into notes with the transcription, which is very handy.

That stuff is very good. Well, I say the summary is not good. I don't know if you found the summary to be good, which is the actual intelligence, but just having the transcription there, which is not an apple intelligence feature, and you can get that I think going back to I phone three teens or something like that.

there's a cut there. They're not using any l stuff to make the transcriptions Better because like I like open, I has a whisper, which is its A I power transcription. And there are some reports that it's inaccurate in some of its cases. I think there is one .

about people using hospital.

And yeah, it's not being great, which is not great IT. Also just a classic AI. Sorry, but it's Better. I think the the stati saw is that the AI transrapid systems are now, on average, Better than the worst human translations.

Whispers is really good, like I i've been using whisper a ton, uh we use IT a ton for ca stuff and uh, it's really good. I'm not surprised like a hospital is the ultimate stress test of anything. It's just full of words that don't exist outside of hospitals, uh and so that's always going to be tough and you should never rely on these systems one hundred percent. But like all of this speech to text and even basic summer ization stuff has gotten pretty good uh, I apple intelligence, I would not say, is leading the summer ation game, uh, but a lot of that life is pretty good at this point.

I mean, this is I do think that there is no A I and I mean, there's obviously an A I model that is on device at doing the transcription. But like any you don't need apple intelligence to do that as that's what i'm reading right now just to confirm what I said before. So yes, the summarizing part is apple intelligence.

and that's the part that's .

very good and that's the part that's not very good. But the part that is really good that is IT really is a game changer for me is like a some source just calls or i'm doing a quick and i'm still hit record IT works great and the transcriptions fine yeah at least can go like it's great for scrolling ling and saying, oh.

that's the party yes, to find the O I yeah and this is very again today this point. This is three people who just like do this task all the time. And this is very useful, but this is a useful upgrade to IOS eighteen.

Everybody who has a pixel phone or android phone, i'm aware that these phones have had the stuff and IT has been great for a long time. I'm just looking at the sweep of things that have been added to my phone with. I was eighteen, twenty one and apple intelligence.

And it's like this stuff, which I just keep going back to, is the basics. Yeah, should we be able to figure out when to add bullets? S, instead of dashes, instead of adding them both? Solved problem. Should we people to send messages later? Solved problem.

Should my phone APP have a great recorder? And that does reasonable transition soft t, but now we're bundling them all up into apple intelligence, obviously developer beta of IOS eighteen point two out at the same time. So there's a real this mash of what people are looking at, what people are talking about.

The more interesting features are in eighteen point to visual intelligence chat, B T. integration. I guess we wait on that, but it's here.

You know, we are a big conversation we were having and join them. Curious how you have thought about this is we reviewed the phones without apple intelligence in them because of our rule review. Its in the box and then we're like maybe we have to rereview them. Now that is tear and i'm kind of like but you don't because there's nothing like I don't know what to say about that. What are you going to do?

And now i'm i'm done with cambridge. We done now. We done now the eighteen point two year I revisit and maybe there's some significant stuff there. Let's just talk about the most important thing that was added in eighteen, that one.

And I I mention this when I did you're installed er but I what's my installation thing that I submit the and my that section in eighteen out one you can finally in control center add a wifi widget, a control. So again, probably something they would have talked about. And what was at eighty six you ve mentioned on the podcast.

you actually just .

do the wifi and now you can just do the wifi and it's amazing .

strong degree. It's control center. Uh I set mine up after you sent me your home screen being like control center the greatest ever happened call what?

Ah, you're right. It's great. I now spend a lot of time just like mucking .

around and control are doing so stuff.

I feel like the control center is apple with IT the right fine? You want customization. Here's what what's like in the next year, there will be like where we're going back to the telling you exactly how this works because it's obviously crazy is to do with .

this way is it's .

very much you're getting what you wish for and somebody .

he's just put wifi controls, the entire control centers, wifi controls and and like, that's exactly what you're talking about. They're like you want a customization. Look at this. Look at this as well. Look what he's done.

the colors and stuff. Oh, they're like all you want your phone to be ugly, not you're stuff up. Have an ugly.

I enjoy ugly. Finally, the iphone is Brown. You'll never ever figure out how to do IT, except by accident, but god speed. Uh.

that's I O A D, where one apple intel git is. Uh, a baby step is crag told join a you should to watch that video of that inner. It's very good.

Um we had to mostly talk about his gra situation but will come to that. The other apple news is the week of max, which is mostly just spect bumps. The new IMAX have an m four chip in them.

They're very nize. The new macs have in for pros and in for max ships in them, very nize. There's new colors on the IMAX, which very bold, beautiful pictures if you don't want to took of them, know those.

But there are the same. They are. Respect them. Ms, right? New chips. It's the mac mini. It's got everybody just raving like a little baby mac. And for chipped in IT, it's very small. It's it's the same volume I think is the outgoing like many but it's taller instead of it's like we unsmashed to the pancake.

I'm sorry to interrupt, but I did put on the priority notifications or the protected tis reduced and interruptions where apple l intelligence supposed to then surface the important notifications. And this is just a chain of moms talking about when we are gonna going trick or treating.

That's priority to interpret our whole show.

And I never, ever respond quickly to these chain of moms. To be clear. I mean, if the chain of moms are listening to this, i'm sorry that I usually mute the channel.

but I the first, I don't think you said how many new jersey mobs listen to our show. I don't.

That's why i'm here. I'm here to bring them to the show.

Also, chain of bomb sounds like a do up group, and you should absolutely start anyway.

If we were doing a live review of apple intelligence, which I thought we were doing on the show, I interpret the show to tell you this chain of moms, it's now blowing up my fun. And apple intelligence seems to think I care, IT says, may be important. It's actually really not important. I do like a new .

segment where you just read us your notifications from time to time on the year. We're going to keep that going.

It's the new joannis on the case.

johannes, on the case with the new jim.

i'm realizing you both get a lot more notifications than I do. Maybe it's just because I don't have the smart home stuff, but I have like systematically turned off basically every notification that isn't texts from people responsible for the life of my child like that essentially IT almost no one else gets the same unification installed ring .

camera has just significations so that you can be feels like a home invasion every single morning we need to talk with the mac mini, which is actually .

sorry we going it's trying .

tell the new jersey moms you're about to talk about the mac mini.

I'm going to them all one for for saying that I never respond to them and using their chain all .

the time and you can only five hundred ninety nine dollars.

right? So David, the thing about this mac, many you have been talking about wanted upgrade your m mac. Many that I basically cuddled you into buying a for a long time. This is going to do IT.

Yeah, oh yeah. This is, I mean, this is the mac. Many people wanted um there are a couple of little less than ideal things.

I think it's a bama that IT doesn't have an S, D card reader. You'd obviously like there to be more I, O all the time. Uh, this one has three U, S, B, C ports on the back and two U, S, B, C ports on the front.

thunder on the back, on the road, four in the back in U, S, B, C in the front, which is very confusing because supports so yeah.

okay, that's actually a good distinction. Uh, I was about to make a face you for trying to distinguish all the dub thunder able stuff. But that's that's a good decision. But anyway, kill me. So like more I O would be good.

I personally there are two things about this thing that I don't care about at all, and I would just like to say them out loud so that we can then move on. I don't care that it's smaller. The the mac mini, the size that IT was was fine.

And I guess if you're like rolling giant stacks of them into a several race so you can run a weird third party message APP hythe's, this would be very useful to you. Um I don't care. I'm going to stick IT where my current mac mini is, is going to take up slide less space.

That will be fine. That thing. Number one I don't care about, the number two I don't care about is that the power button on the bottom, I just I just don't care.

I also, I should say this out loud. Don't care that you charge the magic mouse on the bottom. Don't care about that leader. These are not problems. This is, we are about all .

a separate this, yeah.

So the power button is on the bottom of the magna y that is fine. agreed. Would IT be cooler if I were on the front? Or do I have any feelings about at all? No, what I think is great is that this thing is still five hundred thousand dollars.

IT now starts a sixteen gives of, which is awesome. IT has an m four ship, which is awesome like this. This thing is just what IT is supposed to be, which I think is the thing that apple is starting to do really well with.

Max is IT just gives you the computer that you feel like you should have, right? Like this is the one with the newest chip. IT has most of the I O that I want is still as new internet still like HDMI like this is just the computer that I want and that is delay for, yeah, no .

interesting because they spent so much trying so hard to reinvent max or to kill them in favor of the ipad or whatever they're doing. Just scatter shot mac ideas. What if the keyboards suck? Like, just right? What if they were so thin? The batteries only lasted five minutes.

And now there's just like they're really good computers and where you can keep iterating them, which is all they needed to do. This is also kind of a sign that all of their most innovative ideas are pointed elsewhere, which is kind of weird, right? Like, uh, you would like them to have one mac that was just bananas, but I don't think that actually the mac need to be clear.

It's just the thing you're talking about is just very obvious to the point where the new macbook prows, they didn't even the wallpapers they are just like here here IT is again you know yeah um and all that's fine. Like I am with you. I think this mac money is great. I do I will say there are a lot of people who deploy my mines in things like rex. In other weird places, we are having to take the thing out and turn IT over in case something goes wrong and reboot IT will be a pain in the ass.

Sure, totally.

But that's not not the complaint like I tweet about this and i've always regret that. But and also on I mean, just the anger of some people being like that, this is on the bottom. And because I just asked a base a question, which is how often are you people restarting or turning off your your max and IT turns out like there's a lot of people that turned off their max.

I don't I don't know why. I mean, these are not built to be turned off every day. The end of the day, this is again, not a podcast in one thousand nine hundred and eighty six, but people do IT and seem very angry about the location. Yeah, I don't get IT.

I will say I briefly went through a face where I would shut down my computer at the end of the day just says that like symbolic my my computer day is now everything. And I was kind of great, to be honest. There is something nice about like I have now turned my computer off even though IT takes a grand total of like six seconds to boot. Mac now like it's not slow, it's fine, uh, but I I don't know. I probably restart my mac mini once every two weeks and I do IT by software like I don't ever hit the I can't reach the power bottom on my mac money from where i'm sitting right now.

Had he turned IT on.

I restarted. I literally don't think i've turned IT on .

like you haven't turned IT shut down. You having done like shut .

down no yeah in A A year maybe yeah, sometimes the power goes out and I have to like, pull the thing out so I can reach behind. But that's IT. Like I just only think this is a real problem.

And again, for the people who use these things in server actions, I grant that is in issue. You're not the target customer, right? Like this is not that's not who apple is making this thing .

for now actually for the the mini, the mini is the one where everyone is the target customer in apple zone marketing kind of demonstrates right there are showing this modern box that you can put all these different environments and they can't. They have its apple, right? So IT has to be like a person with a guitar and a person is drawing.

And it's never like the person who's running the third thirty messaging service that excited. But like there are a lot of mama's and server rax. This is a thing that these computers for in fine.

My thing that I don't understand about turning off the computer, uh, is that actually, whenever I called you to mac, IT takes forever for IT to just be fast again. Do you guys not notice? You ve got to.

you got to delete some blog in items to man.

yeah, I have the same but like it's because I yeah, I have some started up items that I just like, it's starting yeah.

whatever. I ve just like a slower I do think the idea that I should keep my computer in like a library room, or like a computer room with like that weird eighties oak furniture, and I should turn off if every time i'm done using IT that might make me healthier, that might be Better for all of us. That will save america.

Yeah, David, version of the emotional notifications.

a hundred percent. yeah. I I get to walk into my computer room and sit down at my computer chair in front of my giant computer box. And it's great. Wait, the point you just made about the way apple is talking about this thing, did that feel really different to you? Because my memory of the mac mini was that I was always like kind of the iphone S E. That is just like a thing that some people like, but it's kind of over here and we're never gonna talk about to pay much attention to IT uh, whether this time IT feels very like front and center. This is a mainstream mac like they talk about this thing and market IT and putting in pictures the way that they do with like the macbook air, which is really surprised me.

I think that's a weird post pandemic work from home change. There are lots of people out there who bought three monitors to work from home in the pandemic. There are what we recover death setups on our own site all the time.

There are a lots of people who spend a lot of time by mechanical keyboards and cool aesthetic monitors. And I think how do you put a mac into that mix? This is the answer.

You can just swap out whatever you have. And here's a little modular mac. And now it's part of a whole lifestyle. And I think that the mac many before was like a utility computer and now IT is a lifetime le computer. And it's because I I really do think that's just a change.

Like even when i've had like cees from preferable companies like lodge whatever on decoder they are talking about this is a market like people are building that setups. They're building a gaming PC set up next to a productivity set up. They want them to beautiful. It's just people want spend all day watching movies in these setups. Now it's there's a lot going on in the computer room, which is now every room.

yeah. And I also think one thing that happened was that they discontinued the twenty seven inch imac. And so that's fair. I when that happened and they just went to twenty four inches, I heard from a lot of readers who were passed. So the best option was a mac mini and a big monitor verses getting a mac with the study ARP was at the mac studio the serious ah well .

and I don't think .

a lot of people are buying like if you're getting a mac man, you wanted up like an imac competitor, either you've getting a studios despise or just getting a cheaper twenty seven inch display or bigger display. And I think that kind of took that market. So yeah that kind of came the .

yeah I did that for my in laws. Maybe a year ago. They had like an ancient twenty seven imac and really did not want to go down to twenty four inches. And so like every three months, my father in law would hit me up P, P, X, O, twenty seven and eight when they are going to happen. And I eventually was like, as a Roger.

I don't think it's going to happen. No, do you remember apple gave us the rare on the record .

statement saying no.

saying we're not making another twenty seven try back.

But think about IT. You're that person. Your love is name your Roger, your Roger and I A lot of Rogers read the westy journal and they really want a new desktop.

And they are not going to get the max studio, which costs two thousand dollars, but they're onna, get an imac. So okay, makes IT more mainstream. They're going to pair that with a display that they know by an amazon of samsung. What not? Yeah, well.

IT was, he was very funny going to other process with him because he was really annoyed by the fact that the computer inside of the imac was old and slow. And I did IT, but the screen was awesome. He was like, why can't I just put another computer inside of the screen? Like, what a terrific point that you're making and so IT made IT IT made IT actually easier to sell him on the idea of like, okay, we're going to buy you mac mini and we're going to buy you a really nice twenty seven eight monitor and this monitor is consider here for a very long time and you can just to create this little computer .

as you need to um and he's been very happy mais in the corner over there and I have all the parts to turn IT into justice monitor and I have to sit around on, get IT on, conclude and do all stuff and i'm gona do IT one day but that is the play. And for that machine, actually, we should just have a party we should have bringing your home x eterna new monitor.

It's a very nearly kind of our chess party, but I think we can get people to come to IT. Um and I know a lot of people who are sitting around with all twenty seven. I max like I can just stand this in this way because the panel is the same as the panel in the studio display and apple has not meaningfully updated that dolge panel for the studious way.

It's the same as the twenty seven and try mac, which I think we should talk about the twenty four inch I act, which was also just ripped to have an in four ship in IT. It's kind of weird that they they just landed this thing at twenty four inches. IT is very colorful but is very thin in many ways.

It's like an apex idea of the imac C. I don't know where you go after this, like this is thin as any computer can be to be that thing. But I feel like if they just made twenty seven inches, like a lots of more people when just buy that, like you would just thought you this would be the thing you've and twenty four, I think everyone .

has that IT has to just be a Price thing, right? Like I think keeping the imac as relatively speaking, affordable as possible is very important because this thing is like IT is such a family computer. It's it's a like thing on the reception desk, fancy doctor's officers like it's in so many of those places that I think if you have a bigger screen, that's good, but if it's suddenly five hundred dollars more expensive, you've kind of killed the value problem. The and I was so surprised when they made the change in the first place, because my assumption would have always been anybody wants, and I was gonna a bigger one, and that, I mean, apple is not like famous for making stupid business decision. So I think clearly that was not the case, but the fact that IT is so locked in on this one thing at this one size and especially with these colors, like you just indicates there is this is a very different mac that serves a very different kind of person than anything else in the mac line up.

It's interesting the way you describe IT, because minister I D A out here IT sounds like good describing. The mac mini is the go to make this stop the lifestyle computer. And the imac is the weird utility computer that goes in the reception desk.

Maybe there is certainly be like plugged in place. Simplest version of that for apple, right? Like there is no easier mac to just insert into a reception office that the doctors are at after office then.

And I am you don't need other preferred, you just sit the thing down, plug in and turn IT on. And I think that's really enticing to a lot of people. I think it's also limiting in problematic in the ways that we're just talking about. But I get the appeal, but I don't understand is why this is the only one that comes in purple. And it's like who is this and not just because I want them all to come in purple, but like what is so different about the imac audience that IT gets such an unbelievably different set of like aesthetic decisions than any other mac?

Well, I think that's like where if they were to go to the twenty and seven inch, I think they would want to attach a pro name to a and a pro isn't come in purple .

because only professionals slightly more screen because .

a pro does not come in purple yeah .

that's a time line there.

So that's how you know that you work at .

the water street journal and we work at the verge because unlike our professionals come in purple. That's what we do hear. We're purple to the walking and oppressive gray.

I like purple.

purple for .

everyone. Just you and I have kids are on the image. Um are you going to A I assuming they will just speed like giving chrome books in your district that will have today right in something? Okay, there's my clap up for school.

I didn't ask you myself, am I gonna get max a laptop or would I want a desktop like this to be like, this is here. And then when you go to your room, IT doesn't go. It's not a portable computer.

And maybe coming back to that, like computer and idea, and I feel like that's part of this, right? It's all part of that mix is like people are expressing what they want computers to be and how they want them to use very differently than just a few years ago. Yeah, obviously very differently than a few years ago.

In part of this is like this computer is stationary and friendly and IT, but IT doesn't go with you, and your laptop has to be rugged. If a laptop was purple, IT would probably look like crap after a while, in a way that alun just looks warm and nice way. I know that I I ve been thinking about this a lot, like, oh, maybe i'll just get the imac the first time out in the fact that this purple makes IT friendly and like that will be fun.

I think that's the move personally. I mean, you even look at the way apple is marketing this thing, like i'm i'm just on the imac payed on apple's website and the images are like, uh, an imac on a counter in a coffee shop or in a Bakery. There's one that looks like it's in some cool like surf board sales shop.

There's one that's clearly in a living room right next to out. It's like these are these are furniture in a way that no other mac is furniture yeah which I just find fascinating. And I I I have like the older I get, the more I believe in the idea of a computer as like a place, uh rather than a thing you Carry around. So like bring back the computer room. Honestly.

that's far actually the time when where these pictures of computer rooms so good, the best, please keep doing that. Verge cast the first computer computer picture.

Now we asked people for .

pictures of their computer rooms and their kids, and we got so many them, and they're all so cool.

And then when they all look that everybody had the same computer.

everybody went to have the same souter with working computer down the line. He was a great okay, I want to end by taking my two things. One is a rumor that is my favorite mr.

And two is john is crustal. Uh, the rumor is apples working on a smart home display. The uh marker man has also reported that are really gonna IT in the smart home.

Now they're going, they're going, they got matter out the door, the standards there, everyone's using IT, there's the array of accessory. You can buy all the stuff and they're going to go for IT. sure.

Um but then they'll have a smart home display in. The other rumor is that. IT will have the display will be on an ARM like the .

I actually four which is the single greatest i'm .

I ever made. The g four is and then I will I will give my entire from home to apple. My question is actually much simpler er about this. What can apple actually do with a smart time display that hasn't been done by every other company except have to be made by apple? Because I have thought about what I used my my nest hubs for.

I've got the alexa displays for a while when we were renovating the kitchen as like i'll put a tablet in the wall then as like I will never use this tablet and I just didn't do IT. I don't know this one time device are actually a thing. I don't know .

they're actually that useful. I mean, I guess I don't have I don't have a smart home display. Everything is audio is mostly through. So nose or my phone I don't have. And like what what are you looking on on to despite, I guess, like your camera fees, if you wanted to see .

them and whatever he wants in the middle kitchen is like a like a security guard.

And also how many camera feds can actually go into home kit .

and into the home APP?

But that the problem is like if if apple you like, if I would a galaxy brain this moment, right? Like if you, anna, look at what is the closest to where the cellphone market was right before the iphone. It's definitely smart, right?

Like there's tons of stuff out there. People are interested. But IT is just object chaos. Everywhere you look, there are million competing Operating systems and and like in theory, someone could come in and put IT altogether and everything would be amazing. Except the difference is, yes.

you is not different, is that we have old crap that just doesn't work .

with a .

different stuff. Thus.

apple would have to immediately turn home kit into the most wildly compatible, open and yet perfect and closed and correct ecosystem in history. And that is not possible. Like I just I I literally don't see how anyone, apple or otherwise, can like wrap their arms around the entirety of the smart home right now in such a way that it's gonna work, which is why matter is, in theory, like the answer, because that means you don't have to, because that means IT all sort .

of sorts to self out. But like IT doesn't not close.

You know.

I I run what is effective a home kit house, because if the controls are not on backeds phone, they don't exist. So if I, if I want her to be able to change the temperature in house, which was got to be home kit, your point about ring join, I like I I bridge everything through bridge.

bridge, get in hobs, right?

The one.

yes. And IT trails.

And we have bridge. And you think.

if I name this episode, I bridgit in hobs that anyone will listen to.

It's like when you and get together, we talking about where d who S A lot.

and we talk about hobs a lot. I talk about I I used to love hobs and now I don't love. So and now i'm in a deep I think I really just emotionally so emotional on this dcs about my hobs, about my .

notifications, I think give you any clusium my club's problem. So just the the brief history here is that if you want to get stuff that isn't supporting a home kit in a home kit, there's just a bunch of like middle are actors. One of them is called home bridge.

Uh, that's the one I use. And then hobs is like a commercial fork of home bridge. So there's a little open source by and everybody makes the plugins and I kind of work on about and I think a lot of the plugins are secretly made by apple engineers because I want to use their stuff and home kit.

I'm just saying we should put that out.

Ah it's it's just a rumor .

three of us .

and so I have A A reserve pie my it's sitting right in front of me that runs home bridge IT has my ring off in IT IT has my extremely garbage honeywell thermostat for the heaters in the basement fine um has something something in IT and all that shows up in home kit, shows up in control of our my phone and that is the problem I would have to tell and all that stuff in a place with matter compatible accesses and I have no inclination place the garbage honeywell thermostat in the basement with a new matter thermostat for no upset but there's just no upside of me doing that so I have to run the home bridge johna has .

to deal hobs bit is very funny sorry to cut you up here yes is homework dge .

Better than hobs right now is what your bridges .

is more stable .

OK it's Better Better of my hobs but you can just you can just install IT on the same as rape is fine um and we and this is all like whatever but then you get to other stuff like garage door openers where chamblin, which is the garage door monopoly in the united states, which is ridiculous, wants everyone .

to use my q and .

they have my cancelled we actually uh genti broke the story. They cancelled not only their home kids support, they made a little doctor. They broke the, my Q, A, P, I, so that the home bridge adapters, the hub adapters, the plugins would stop working so that you would have to pay a subscription for mike you. That's like that's where we act in this smart market so apple can show up without a beautiful screen and be like matters. The real deal in the year, stuck with even the hacks to make IT all work together, are being broken, say, to pay subplot feet to your garage door opener.

My dream in life is just to be able to drive away from my house and say, theory closed the garage I so I can you can help me with that.

I can solve this problem for you. So the best tag to solve this problem. And this is why I want to get to your conference conversation.

But I, but what I just want IT before you get to work. I used to have this. I had this when home with, when hobs was working with what you just described.

Then chAmberlain breaks that. And now I have to use there. I will not insert the word APP.

okay? And so I can no longer do this. Now you can go on right.

so that the solution are all these little adapters. My name is on there, mostly company called meos IT. Seems like this is one of those situations where one company made the thing, and in five hundred other companies rebranding IT. The end the you on amazonia like home bridge, you go on amazon and a type in my home can add for a .

store and see the same .

product from beauty companies. Miss is the one that everybody uses um and IT is just a little reay with a wife and ship in IT. The connects to home kit and all IT does is IT connect the two wires and pushes the button your ground store.

Okay, am I installing this? Have to get up on a latter and put IT on to my no.

you like your friend new to .

your house and new.

I will get on to letter. And I do mean .

we can do IT together.

This is we provide for all. So, but you have to a wired india auto open.

I'm going to get on a letter.

Yeah, on a latter.

You get to find the crews, you get to ploy IT into the terminals, and then to run a sensor wire to the door itself. So IT knows when the .

doors open and closed. You can possibly think that .

is like a reasonable thing for a part. Just where that when crag telling Joanna that he used a theory to open his garage door, you gotto watch this video. Joanna is like, how theory doing with apple intelligence.

And he is like, serious, great. We a billion inquiry. Y A day, I use IT to open microage store .

because I had also asked about the garage. I given the example of the garage because, again, I do think very helpful .

for the grusha. But I said, if you just sit in the guy who runs all software, apple is asking his phone to open s grasty. What IT takes to actually get there is so complicated.

but crying I did talk after, but he did say IT has home kit integrated, which leads me to believe that he had an old model that when lift master was like.

friendly.

no, they did. They had some old model that had some home kit in integration.

right? So here is my two theories and again, very chest listers of fair to that um we believe there are only a few options here crag has a secret model of garage store opener like a big motor thing home kid in IT but no one else has ever had in their lives, right? He's got a custom custom Carter opener too uh, he's got a home bridge in his house, which would be hilarious, truly hilarious.

Like he's he's run a little bras, rapier, tomoaki or three. Some apple engineer came to set up crackers house put in one of these mear automates and never told him about IT. Those are choices because there is on a garage drop in our with home kit built into IT.

There wasn't like, I don't know, seven years ago. And they were like, hey, you can get home kit and had the less little like logo on everything. I I pretty sure there was a either IT was a lift master or .

something that had that asking the listeners. This is what the her chases for. We are crowd sourcing, whether not the big motor thing with home kit and and existed.

I should .

think you imagine .

greg garage.

Like, do you think IT like opens with like a light display. It's like a batman's house.

I. Should have I never regretting that I did not spend the twenty minutes that I had with him really going deep on this but I did ask him at the end and he said, yeah, i've had one with home kit agreed yeah .

crag if you're listening and I know that you are, as you always do, high crag come on the show and tell us gore.

just write us email just telling us how the how it's there is only .

three options he's got. He has one that no ones ever heard of. No four options. He's got one that no ones ever heard of, which would be incredible.

correct? Please come on the show and tell us what your custom engineer home kick opener he has the discontinued mike homework IT bridge. He's got a home bridge or hobs or he's got one of these mirror sector. Rs.

there is the only choice, oh, the bridge. So sorry, choice number two is that who .

made that bridge? My, but they .

discontinued IT.

The a you can get IT. It's not t IT off.

This is the worst smart home commercial in the history.

This is what I you can make the display, and then you get always .

talking about this with my boss, by the way, all the time, the deputy editor in chief of the while state journal also has this problem. I really think a lot of people have this problem. They are not talking about IT.

To talk about IT, we awareness, we need to talk about this more and we need to talk about this symbolic. I I just wanted drive away and not have to tap a button. But just be clear, by the way, like they did solve this problem decade to go with a button. Okay.

we got to read this step. I'm starting a small consultant in company to help people get the government shorts in home kit.

And I was first client.

This is my examples. So we were going to have you have a friend for the living around, but we did this for so long.

But you have to go, I have to go see my child in a parade and halloween.

alright, well, will figure out how to fix your your time.

And I just also want to say that I have gotten many notifications in this podcast that were not important to me, and we're not a priority.

All of them were from lee. And the produce of being like, stop talking about the government.

so reduce interruptions in apple intelligence is not very intelligent, right? Thank you.

Goodyer jarana will have you back against you. You're when you can't come back until you've .

figure I am not sure your listening ers want me to come back.

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Let the I figure out which .

ones to I would like them to come to .

my house to fix my shy back. I were back. I don't know what you heard in that last time went I don't know how much we're gonna keep. I just want you to know that the gradual conversation which you know went on for so long.

oh my god.

like however long you think that actually went for whatever you just experienced, that was at least three times.

Yeah we may join a late for her child because we are like .

my garage door was child that he only experiences .

through who is named the .

child according different yeah that also means the show is way too long. Ah so we got to to get through sliding and real fast.

He wanted start. yeah. So I just wanna really quickly mention a this new thing netflix launched called moments, which basically lets you just link to a specific part of A T V show or movie, and on the one hand, incredibly boring future great.

Netflix x larches anchor links. yeah. One thousand nine hundred and eighty six.

Yes, very true. Completely agree. On the other hand, netflix has been so incredibly diverse to any kind of social interaction with its product over the years that I just find the existence of anything like this really fascinating.

Like we've talked many times in the short of years about how weird IT is that you can't screen shot a netflix show like in the world in which we live right short. Yeah you you can do IT. You can hack your way into IT. But if i'm watching something on netflix and i'm like, wow, and I want to send IT to someone, you can't, it's illegal and not allowed and impossible.

People do not like them. I just want to be clear on mobile devices and T V devices, on laptop support screen shot and sharing nefer x place.

sure. I don't think that's the primary place. Most people are interacting with netflix.

I guess that there is like a weird bedroom in biostatistician screen shots to see you a netflix or from people with clubs.

This is, this is the point, right? But I think and and I think if if netflix had Better tooling to prevent you from doing on on the laptop, IT would do so too. That is on either here or there are just the fact that netflix is engaging more in society in this way, I think is really interesting, right? Like there's there's an alternate future of netflix where IT engaged much more and there was like short inside of netflix that creators were starting to do.

And netflix just like leaned into like we're going to be premium tiktok in in a way that no flix really talks about itself now as premium youtube yeah even on their earnings colic, that's how the company frames itself in very real ways. Uh, it's how they're selling ads. It's like netflix seize itself as high and youtube in so many real ways and yet has tried so hard to be this little tiny, insular like this is where you watch shows and nothing else universe. And so any tiny moment where you can, like capture something else and taking out of netty X, I just think is really interesting. I don't know anyone will use this future.

but I think I this is pure contraction here, right? The single best discovery at netflix could launch would be tiktok. Netflix right, where you just flip through clips yeah and I just shows you this way that people are watching prior to movies on tiktok today and they don't know what clips to pick and they can go through a whole catalogue and pick everything so you want feature like this where people are bookmarking in their favorite parts of shows and suddenly you have a library of places to clip from uh.

and then that becomes the thing also, when you go to the home screen and it's liking how IT starts playing, maybe it's started playing a clip that everybody likes. That's a good theory. If netflix isn't doing that, they should be and they should pay.

Never consulting firm and go to tech brand as as as we're going to do. We're going to work on the go and a pitching tiktok for netflix. We had great Peters, the product c of netflix on the color. Every time I have a streaming service O, I asked him a tiktok and I cited tiktok and whether there is a tiktok to streaming service pipeline or whether they would build a tiktok and they all just sort of you know at me like doesn't look anything to me and i'm going to break through one of these .

days yeah there's just no way it's true and and you would think I have watched so here's a fun example. I was uh, home from work sick on monday and I watched the movie in time with just a timber lake. Do you know why?

Do you know why I watched that movie? Because i've seen so many sixty second clips of IT on tiktok that I was like, I literally I got some point was like, I need to just watch this da movie so I was at home and I watched IT and IT rips and everyone should watch IT. Uh, it's possible that I just sick and delivery.

you have to be slightly altered to be like this movie rips like it's a good, it's an underrated genova. The central conceal is good, the jokes are good and then the cars are awesome. And i'm pretty confident and .

is designing all its cars. But no, but I think that, that connection is real. And and I think it's in the same way that with music rate that always like why isn't they're just to listen to this on spotify button next to every tiktok video and tiktok is infect building a music APP to do just that.

There is connection there that should exist and that makes sense that netflix might want to do more of that on purpose. yes. Um mine is just .

a clip of our friend tony fidel. So IT was tech crunch disrupt this week big conference famous uh, my mom, I was on stage there, he said a work of work press would be fine. We're going to be proven that somehow just i'm one of this year of things happened to technology disrupt.

And then tony fail, who uh works apple for ages, uh, was one of the contested fathers of the ipod. It's a big fight that's fun to talk about um but he did the bring up of the ipod. Uh, he worked on the iphone for several generations and he left.

He found nest. He sold that to google. He fought with everybody at google and now is A V C.

This is a short version to fill. Tn is a character. He's been on the coder a number of times.

We've known toy forever. He's on stage to conscious, rapt talk A I. And he basically says, Simon lin is forsheda run the clip, 就是 run club。

We are using this stuff and we don't even know how works. And believe me, I understand i've been doing A I for fifteen years people, so I am not just about in shit. I'm that same altima.

Okay, so so seriously, you've gotta know what you're hiring here. You've gotta know what you're using. And if we don't have transparency on data, we don't have transparency on fluctuations, you are setting yourself up for a fuck in disaster. So I want to be clear, I love to me for my .

only note on this would be that, uh, when we are talking about this link in slack, and I forget who IT was, but somebody was like, is this, is this like what tony is always like? And without missing a beat me, I just cause, yeah, this is to any.

this is tony, I tony on the color talk about his book about how to be a good later. And IT was this, you should go epsom. Uh, he's not wrong.

He's not wrong, right? We, we, I keep describing the currency AI. We taught us all the big show, but I keep describing curve.

I is, we are spending billions of dollars to build blue truth and no one knows what the headphones are onna look like, like no one can be like I am going to make really good head friends out of this is more like these headphones might kill you. We have to build blue tooth is expensively as possible. It's a great clip.

I readers gna say, what does tony know? But I find whatever it's not. I don't think when estimates that is a platform shift that pretend google IT did thread google for other reasons, that was a disaster in equation. This effectively comes to nothing for that company but some on spin shit men. That's a some find work if .

it's pretty good. And you could tell he knew he was a line to, he said IT and then like of Green and sort of leans back in his chair a little of IT.

he's like, got him yeah and then he stands up and start screaming. And ah, we got to end with this one. Uh, tim all and L C.

Played madam on witched together last week. Uh, I whatever we had a campaign having campaign ever. He's going on poker.

And I just wants to point out, and I just want to say this because another David understands this is deeply st. idea. Playing madden with an audience is one of the most high sticks things you can do, because than twenty .

four is so IT IT really, IT is such an intricate game that is like they should have just played. Overwatch, like IT would have been less complicated.

They did at the end. They sharping crazy taxi, after my prediction came to pass to muster in reception.

Didn't neither of them score like IT pretty.

This game is too hard. I play this game almost every night online. I ve been playing IT since I was a child.

I ve want a game cube playing that in in a matter intern in a bar. hammer. D I was good at this game. The new version is. Yeah I just thought I was the the riskiest campaign vent i've ever seen and indeed ten walls like fan uh, try to go to to just Justin devers and immediately through interception, which is I can't capsule ate what the new matter is like more .

than matter IT was very good. I I appreciated both the like effort and the immediate understanding of, oh, this is not very cover.

You shouldn't .

do they just fail. They they just gave up.

which is that many times .

we are so over before we go. It's an election on tuesday. Uh, we did a whole package of election stuff.

The package is very good. Uh, you you wrote a big fire endorsement that has caused a lot of feelings on the internet. Uh, should we talk about that? I'm like i'm both. I want to and I don't want to .

at the same time for a minute, okay, I got want to know what they're like, let pots explain the vercheres more and sometimes they do that. There is a nemu true hearing today I I can talk about that's very political um but in this case I would just say two things of the indorsement uh one we like every news organic we actually like went back and for them what they do but just the thing that happened there were meetings we are in uh we've published a lot of them before.

So we endorse obama in twenty twelve of we endorse spider last time I wrote those, we did not endorsed ler or trump in twenty sixteen and I am sorry, i'm sorry for that outcome. I think I could store that election. Uh I would have really bound up the colony letter.

I don't know. Um we didn't um because that's the history. There are the ones that are done in the past. You can read the ones in the past.

The one of biden uh in twenty very similar to the one I was, is just the thing that got me in the thing I even think king about. We read about policy all the time in the verge, which all the time. And they are just systems, right? Like the legal system is a system and congress is a system.

And when we describe the systems to the audience of the verge, who is, who are, which is comprised a lot of people who build things and make things and care about how things are made IT find everyone gets IT in in the the turn is, but these aren't computers. They are not predictable for any given set of inputs. You don't get a predictable set of output.

And now in the age V, I put the most part, people who like work with computers expect the systems to be predictable. And the government isn't, the legal system isn't. So that is always that's always been the key to how we cover policy here.

We described the system and then we point out like this isn't pretty. The actual people have to just keep doing IT. And I just really occurred to me that all for all of the babbling about democracy that everyone is doing, no one has explained like what it's important or like why that's the system.

Yeah so that was approach to would have bombs because I you know me um I hope that worked. The feeding was great. I was expecting chaos a nightmare.

And I am just very encouraged and harden that what I got was uh the most comments on article since we switched to coral um mostly entirely respectful, obviously did some moderate to house of clean but most of special most engaged to the feedback from the social network was most a good obviously is very distracting uh there like other things to talk about but i'm just I was very proud of our audience you're engaging with the and I know I gave with the second grade spicy blind, but I stand by the headline. The argument in the piece is the headline yeah and so i'm just happy people take IT seriously. They read IT, they paying attention.

They're bought in into america, which is, I think, important so yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't want, I like overdo IT. I I said what I need to say, I publish in text because I am still right heart, I hope the internet continues to be a place for text to live. Yeah, I I don't know.

There's much more to say. Yeah, enough. Link all the suffers. The package is really great.

Uh, gabe ages one shot up rote a piece for us today, thursday, uh, about all the tech leaders who have basically fAllen all over themselves to code up to trump just in case he wins. Uh, that is something we could spend many hours talking about. I super not want to.

So let's not but go. That piece very good, will put all that in the show is to, uh, IT IT was good. I really liked to the endorsement.

IT was a IT was a IT was a project for you to get that thing done and and out. And I think saying all those words in a row takes a lot out of you sometimes. But he was very good.

good. You know, it's funny. I'll just on this note and just there's like, we have a lot of friends and colleagues who've gone off to go be indeed on various platforms in various ways, and we washed them well.

H, I hope people can see we actively try to support all of our former co workers who've gone on to start things. I want them to succeed. And that's a trend.

But everyone talking about that trend, this is what you should to do for me to do this. Like if I ran a substandard, think he would be pretty empty. I don't to go anywhere like you need the platform, you need the group work.

I needed an art department that went in higher, an amazing artist to put that piece of art at the top of that and every other part of our package. And I desperately needed a huge group of editors, who I trust, to fight with an almost every single sense, to make sure the senses were great. And that, and then we needed the, you know, the virtual go on our big website and all the stuff. And that is important and like that, I just uh, we've to talk a lot about both garage stores in the future of media on the subset of ferchar.

So we do here.

That's us. We publish the presidential endorsing on the same days like a new mac mini, right? That's the verge. It's it's a big thing that we do here. Uh, and that to me was if we have the platform, we should use IT for as long as we're going to to have platforms like this, we should use them and getting to use IT with a bunch of people who but make sure it's good is like it's good and to give you an audience that respond .

to it's a cool. We 点 come and I go vote on to that's the need to leave you cover， you cover now.

Show up, you know, don't do anything illegal. Hi, that's IT. It's just. And that's IT for the verge gas this week.

Hey, we'd love to hear from you. Give us a quality six six verge one one. The verge cast is a production of the verge in box media podcast network. Our show is produced by liam James wal poor and the air go mass and that's IT. We'll see you next week.

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