Reviewing the iPhone 16
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Welcome to the word cast, the flagship podcast of ugly color tinted at icons that we love. Anyway, i'm a friend, David peers, and I bought a new computer monitor. This is not like exciting big news, but to me, IT is exciting and big news.

I went from twenty four inches to twenty seven inches, which is actually a bigger difference than I expected. I almost got a thirty two inch monitor. But the idea of being one of those people who has to, like, look from side, decide to see everything on my screen just felt ridiculous.

It's just a Normal like four k delon monitor. I don't think i'm good enough or sensitive enough to need a studio display. Er or one of those LG ones that everybody likes that are know thousands of dollars.

I'm a simple man with simple pixel needs, and this one makes me happy. But there is one future about IT that I deeply, deeply love already. So I spend all of my time staring in the web camps, right?

I'm doing podcasts. We're making videos. I'm just in meetings. I'm using web camps all day, every day. That is the life of a modern person, IT seems. And I never know where to look right.

You can do the thing where you like barrel, the camera and IT kind of freak everybody out. They are making eye contact with you over zoom. Or you can sort of look way down and they are looking at the top of your head, but you're looking at them.

And so there's no eyes contact. It's weird. And what this monitor does is IT just lets me IT just lets me side IT up and down so I can go, I can go down.

So it's easier. It's a Green eye level. I can make eye contact. I can move IT up. So then it's up there and it's nice and high. And now it's not weird because I can look at sort of a Normal distance and i'm looking right into the screen and not into the camera. I love IT.

Now I can just make whatever level of eye contact I want to, and I can wield eye contact as a weapon instead of just awkward dly sort of staring down all the time. I'm unstoppable. Now my web cam game is on point anyway.

We're not here to talk about computer monitors or web camps or my d by contact. We are here to talk about apple reviews that's we're going to do on this whole show. All the new devices came out.

We've reviewed all of them. That's actually the reason the show is a day late. Embargoes make everything complicated, but all of our reviews are out. The new iphones, the new apple watches, the new airports, everything.

And we're going to spend this whole show talking about those, whether you should buy them, whether they're good upgrades, what all this means for the future of everything in our lives. So much to get to, it's going to be very fun. All that is coming up in just a second. But I have been sitting here staring into this camera for a way too long now, and I gotta take a break for real into IT. This is the verge cast will be right back.

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Welcome back, right? Let's just get rid into the reviews, starting with, I think, the obvious one, the iphone. So four new iphones this year, iphone sixteen, sixteen plus, sixteen pro and sixteen max.

And yes, I have reached the point. We're saying the word iphone or sixteen all just sounds not like words anymore. You know that that happens.

It's not great. But some spec bumps, some new buttons, some old buttons on new phones, an interesting line up this year. And I would say one of the more complicated ones to suss out which phone is actually the right one for most people.

So we're going to get into that. Neither eatee analyst Johnson have been reviewing these things ever since we got them and heard about them last week, and they have lots of thoughts. What's time I tell? Hello, hello, alison Johnson. Hi hello OK. So just just like pull back the cover slip here. We are doing this twenty four hours before the review embargo, not even twenty hours before the review embargo for the iphone, which, uh, is not a super fun time to do anything if you are the person having to review the iphone. So just thank you both for doing this to me and also um if you just sort of like disappear into insanity in the middle, this I I will understand .

well actually say one thing like that which is I think very funny. The review period is a day longer than usual even though there's a full days less worth of stuff to talk break because .

the event was on monday and it's Normally tuesday day on tuesday .

yeah it's money is monday to .

wednesday ah every new button we .

get an extra day I think this that work I just but it's like for .

as little stuff as there is to say we have much more time to say IT, which I think is fascinating .

yeah .

but I please keep IT this for apple, for listening. More time is Better, which I have been told .

them for a full decade.

No take backs. Yeah this is the bare minimum for a okay. So alan, you're doing the regular iphones and I you've you've been reviewing the pro.

sorry. yes. okay. So let's just quickly dispense with all the stuff that is not on these phones yet, which is any sign of apple intelligence.

Have you noticed like it's been a weird time that was the big thing they talked about the the I O S. A teen came out. There is a bunch of new stuff in there. But none of the really apple intelligence stuff, like, do these phones feel incomplete in your lives without apple intelligence stuff? Like how much should people write off the fact that none of that is here at no?

I'm i'm finding that kind of easy to ignore like there's there's a ton of new stuff in I S A T actually without all the apple intelligence. Um so I just very much feels like the new iphone, like there's two new buttons on the regular version. There's always stuff to take into an eighteen. So that is kind of out of my mind for the moment for sure.

Know what about you? We had a big argument about last week.

We did um I think these problems are incomplete and that it's hard to make the case to buy one if you have an iphone. And the reason that you might buy, particularly the regular sixteen, is that IT has the eaves, which supports apple intelligence, which is not here. So you have a regular iphone and you upgrade to the new iphone sixteen.

You'll have a nice experience. Anything else and has had a nice experience is a nice phone. It's seven, ninety and I and you get a bunch of stuff, but IT will be essentially the same experiences of creating regular phone dios.

And I think that's a real problem for O. I feel the same way in the pro as well, particularly fifteen pro. There is zero reason to get a sixteen pro.

The fifteen pro is getting echo intelligence when he arrives. It's just hard to make the case. So I I ve so equite these friends have come up with one reason to upgrade.

Uh, and that is so monkey and you have to be such a to earn to even make the argument that I don't think it's convincing. okay. Well.

that is where we're going to spend most of our time. But I I am here as big picture elson has been. You take a way to like pretty good phone, nothing to sort of run out to the sort for .

here yeah I think like I agree with everything in life has except that there's no reason that I have great to IT. I think IT is like it's we're unlike a three or four years cadences of like you hold on your iphone in your sort of doing this dance of leg. Should I upgrade? Should I not upgrade? And this is excluding anybody who's like super interested in the five ax telephoto lands or like any of the core post of that happens. So I don't I think for someone who's doing that dance of, like is IT now do upgrade now, like this is a really good year upgrade, but yeah, it's it's gonna an iphone. It's gona be a lot like the iphone you had.

I do like that is a way of thinking about actually because there is the question of like is this the phone you've been waiting for? And I think the answer is no. But the question is if if the question is, should you wait for the next one? Also kind of know which says something about like the just the path that we're on with the iphone, but is also a nice place to be at.

Like if you need a new phone, go by this one. You like IT ah and I will do the things that are coming. You won't feel left out by the time we get to the next one.

There's also just the reality of how most people are acquiring these phones now, which is are on paint plans, their Carriers on the cycle, right? So will this phone just happen to you? I will.

I will just occur to you and you, you you wake up one day, you will have an iphone sixteen in that old speed end of IT. And I think that's fine and weird. But IT is true as awesome points out. But those upgrade cycles can get much longer now. And that to me is why I keeps saying of phones in complete because you would ideally apple would get to push up the up great cycle by offering the sweet of new features you can get on any phones, and that is just not the case.

Now yeah that that's very so before we get into the camera stuff, which is I assume, where we are going to get very lost in the weeds of realized feelings, is there anything else about these you want to like spend some time talking about? I think we ve talked about the action button. Feels like it's good that that's coming to the the bed love phones. Has anything else really like jumped out at you and your experiences here, Alice on and particularly curious for you with the the entry level phone coin court entry level fund a, is there anything that you feel like has has jumped out new experience so far that we should talk about?

No, it's sort of just been a feeling like, oh, this is nice that this is here. You know, spend some time with a fifteen pro before I moved over to the sixteen that i'm reviewing and just feeling like, okay, I get this little action button and I programme IT open the day care up so when i'm signing my IT out, there isn't like a lot of people behind with you. Well, i'm fumbling around trying to find an APP. So it's like just little nice, nice to have things here and there um be the real actions in the the camera stuff I think OK .

a let's let's just get into this now and I I would like you to explain ah what I would call not quite a maximal crisis but like a deep philosophical hole you have fAllen into over for the last week about the iphone sixteen camera yeah what is your experience span?

There's a lot this camera. So I think the first thing to say is that the pro camera is in fact significantly Better than the regular from sixteen camera. We've gotten a lot of questions from folks that are asking whether the pro is worth this year because on paper, the spec seem pretty much the same. And then you actually look at the photos and pro cameras just substantially Better. The main camera is substantially Better.

I can capture more light that as big a pixel over, but as you use them, and in particular, as you use the new photographic styles also, and I ve been talking in the entire vibe from apple, is like, he figured out what what you, what you want, photos like you, whatever you want is fine. Whatever color do you want the people to be is fine. That is just like it's not wrong, right? Like that is a pretty valid approach to give the person taking the photo control over what the photos look like.

But apple also is ships the most popular camera in the world. And IT is is like they're just let go of having a point of view, which is, I think, a big change. And it's not a big change in the sense of like it's doing while a eye stuff. It's just a big like once you let go of what color people are like, there's not much left hold onto you know I mean.

yeah look how do you actually use the styles. It's it's I think we saw like bit and pieces of IT in the announcement, but you guys have actually use these. Like how do they fit into the workflow of using the camera .

in like ten different ways? Well.

this is why I asked because it's it's not my initial impression was that I was kind of like an instagram filter where like you take a picture and then it's like these other things. I can look like IT IT seems like IT is that and not that at the same time is .

IT is not that there is much fancy in gram filters, but at the end I think most people will perceive them to be in computer. okay? Me like there an interm felt literally sits over the top of your photo where apple controls the whole imaging pipeline so you can just do a higher quality job of adding colors and shadows and whatever um apple is running the same you know takeup to nine photos H D R imaging pipeline that they always happen, tonic engine which is very funny um and all they really done is reshuffle the steps so that you can edit the styles after you have taken a photo.

That's the good the same basic steps as the iphone and fifteen and the thing that you've changed is when you take your nine photos did expose everything in the photo evenly. Now you can do things like change which parts of the photo. Expose that what rates, how many shadows there are.

They can semantic ally detect faces. So you can adjust things like the undertones and skin town, which is one set of filters, or you can go pretty wild into what they call the mood filters. Then that much more like the fuji film recipe, where you're like simulating a film stock that has different colors and it's cool.

All of IT is cool. And then the actual controls of IT are, you can do IT live with a preview. You can switch the styles using the new camera control, you like slide along and then there is a really important control that we will get you called tone, which you can also address while taking a photo um that is the HDR ness of a photo for a black of Better term.

And you can just turn IT down when I say, there's one reason about this camera is that you can just turn off apples super intense HDR look and make IT look like a Normal camp, and that so you can control then or at once you've taken a photo, you open the the photo picker and you can change the size. And that is A D pad, which is a just a totally fitting way of dealing with this. Yeah, but it's like you have A A little two access d pad of what your photo looks like and .

you can mess around with IT is so this sounds like the kind of thing that is like extra editing features as the way describing IT, which seems like fine. They're just like here's themself if you might do in light room we're going to let you do IT in the photos APP uh, Alice, and are you using this as as much as nei? Is because this caused you as much philosophical pain as this .

is causing I over the last week. Yeah, I don't know pain. Well, know.

Pain is the record. Yeah, i'm super indo IT like I. I am a person who want I want more shadows in my photos. I'm tired of everything being pushed into this gray middle road. yes. And this feels like the answer to a lot of people being like skin tones weird on my iphone or like I don't like all this each year processing yeah they're just going like, okay, you do the work then um but I like that because I like getting in there and messing with things.

Um it's kind of monkey how you set IT up like I think with the previous photographic styles, you would just kind of swipe to win and then yeah, i'm like you could make that your default from the camera APP. I think this time around you kind of have to go through this like set up process where it's like pick four of your favorite photos that you've taken with this camera and there's like a whole field of difficulties or like you know the the fees is is like to get you to daland the skin tone you kind of prefer um like a warmer, cooler cast and so really is this four pictures of me is four pictures of my kid. Like, well, what does this mean? So there's a weird kind of, I kind of have to work through all that. I SAT all on one. I think I like all.

and I both have families with ranges of skin tones in them. So you're like, i'm going to pick these four photos and then i'm going to pick a style and it's like, who I think we both landed on our kids yeah, you are like, interesting in the middle .

like only only acid analytic a picture of my husband sometimes like it's all pictures are my kid but yeah, this sort of in the middle ground there yeah and that picture .

is actually really interesting as you open IT and has picked four fetus and you think you're gonna do something algorithm, icc or mathematical, but it's just a preview. It's just preview like you can slide through the precepts and then pick when you like. And then is that a fault, which is, I think, a little lot.

You can also just change IT out for the fact you can leave IT. You can mess the camma controls or show me camma controls now you can leave IT so sticky once you pick one, all stuff you can do to get the camera consistently, shoot the photos you want them to look. But there's nothing of bad at that sort of guides you to IT, apart from pick four photos of someone in picking under town that becomes the prefer under town yeah .

that's really interesting there. There's such a like power of default thing in that that that feels so unable to me that is like apple is for Better and for worse, the most aggressive company maybe in tech at being like here is how this should work. yeah. And IT is sort of slowly roll IT back in such way that if you want to change things, you can. But IT has still always had really strong opinions about how things should be.

And so what's really interesting here is, one, all of these features are on both the prophet and the regular fund. The camera control, the styles, the slides, the tone, all of IT is there on both phones, which is fascinating. And then the default, the taking on the box, take a picture. It's even more H D. R than I was before .

oh really so apples heard .

all this he that i've got taken all this criticism you know in the review video ll see we just have a super cut of people on tiktok saying the camara looks bad on the and fifteen pro um alexa to seven million followers is like what is the one fifteen cameras? C i've been reviewing things a long time. I will never publish anything that I was sitting.

It's a bad right? That's a bad place for them to be in the instead of walking IT back, we've added these controls. But then the photos, one to one, are even writer from the fifteen pro to sixteen pro.

The photos from the sixteen pro are even like massively brighter than the photos from the sixteen. So apples is really leaning into. We're going to bring down all the bright parts and bring up all the shadows, and everything will be totally flats.

So you can see all the detail. But then they're adding this control, which is, you know, tone is like a weird word to put in the top level of the camera. Yeah, right in what they mean. What that means is tone mapping, which is not a word that anyone knows, no, but what? Mostly when they see tongue, I think they think of the old control, like A C, R, T, T, V, everything, clean, make everything.

It's, it's slider.

Yes, right in this. This actually is a shadows so that they're taking that big stack at nine photos. And then there by tone mapping IT, you're you're saying you came and find all the right exposure across the whole image and add them all up.

You get one even image of detail everywhere. So the black stone got a black and the bright stone call to White. It's just going to be stuff everywhere and tone mapping by turning IT down.

They are saying we were going to do that less. And that's that's the whole control. And IT is confusing and weird. And I think people are going to think it's just brighter, but IT is actually controlling the H D.

R. processing. So IT sounds like the possibility like you're going to be able to take Better looking photos on the sixteen maybe than on any iphone before. But if you don't touch IT, your photos might be even worse.

And they have this to me. Yes.

I like lower floor and higher ceiling than a lot of iphone photos we've seen before. This is a really strange place to be at. We're like min maxing the phone set up here.

I think the apples default is getting away from them. I think I have like some ideological rules about never wanting to lose any detail, never letting things clip and never showing you know is they are still doing awful lot of sharpening and no introduction like it's just all over the place and these phones. So if that's the thing that bothers you, the time control isn't going to help you. Um but I think that apple has these rules like if you anyone pulls out a photo and takes a photo of issue people to generate a usable image no matter how hard IT is, which is incredible, right? Like that has not been true of most cameras in most situations, right?

And that's a reasonable starting point.

Yeah people like people love taking back. Let photos like people like the window. Let me stand in front of IT and complain that the faces are on shadow and the iphone just doesn't add this problem anymore. Like you can just do IT and I can solve that problem, which is kind of incredible. But IT also means that other think, like the trade, ffs, of that are are bad, like people are complaining about those tradeoffs now.

But the weirdness of IT for me in sort of the upgrade conversation is, if you are the person who didn't like the way the fifteen photos looked, you're gonna not like the sixteen photos even more, unless you know, to go into the settings, to mess with the tone control, to set the the undertones, to like to really adjust the camera or tear liking, which implies one, you know why you don't like the fifteen photos until you understand what those controls me. And so you can get them to a place video like them while the devot is getting worse. So you might be taking one step forward. But actually, I two steps .

back in the upgrade two year point about this coming to all of the phones. I think if you're apple, you can get away with that trade off to some extent on the pro and especially the pro max, right? Like you, you're selling these things to an audience of people who are willing to pay more to get more tools with which to do stuff. And I think that's where you can say, like, look, if you want to have this other stuff here IT is but it's going to be more complicated but here IT is, I think on the seven hundred ninety nine dollar iphone sixteen, the default thing out of the box becomes much, much, much more important yeah and that's why I start to work. You're going to a lot of people who are disappointed with this camera because they don't know and maybe shouldn't have to know all these other stuff that they can do with IT.

Yeah, and apple have label these precepts in a much stupider way, like pointing shoot camera, camera with big lens. You like, yeah, like just some instead of rate in tone. Wis, again, once you understand that is very powerful and IT to me, that is the reason to buy this phone.

I am a very unique individual sense. Like I just want shadows in my photo. I'm going to spend money on a new phone.

Like weird, I own fifty cameras. I can just get shadows at any time. Um but I think for most people, these precepts are just there are a bunch of words. And then out of if you've had this experience. The camera control is pretty sensitive and it's kind of easy to get yourself sideways yeah by adJusting stuff you had no intention .

just interesting yeah I I have had some struggles with the camera control and boy was a prime to like IT. Um but i'm just generally finding IT like really stiff to like you do a full press, you do the actual button press to take a photo and then there's all the other stuff that you can accidently mess with. Is that like haptic ck kind of light press? And then you slide your finger to um change one of those settings or like, do a double press and you'll pick another. Yeah, I ve found myself of like i'm trying so hard not to shake the phone and i'm pushing down on the shot button but not hard enough and I keep putting and like, my finger will move a little bit and a change of exposure calm and i'm like, this is bad like I was just trying to take a photo yeah, I am being way more attention to like the camera settings that I am the thing i'm taking a picture of, I just want .

to control to go away, right? Once you reject like on any other camera, you like adjust to control, your finger doesn't stay on a control yeah. And this is because it's a capacity slider and a button you like adjust that with a capacity par and then your fingers still want to to push a photo in the control is still there. So you still adJusting in the control while you're pushing the shutter button, it's all just a little .

bit too much yeah and you're supposed to tap on the screen to get the controls to go away. And like him so close, we do that you're using .

a game controller and you're super to click with the joystick and how long IT takes to learn to click the joy sick without moving the joystick so that you're suddenly slightly in the wrong place when you're clicking. Uh and we talked to at this on a show last week that like the the upside of this would be, forget all the funky stuff in the middle. Mostly what you want to do is just match the button and take a picture. And if you mash the button, we will take a picture IT sounds like it's actually maybe not even quite nAiling that, that sometimes you want to match the button and you can't match the button. And so you're accidentally doing this stuff in the middle.

Why you're trying to just match the button? No, you can just mash the button, change anything using the button, then you can't mash the button. And oh, OK.

I see, right? It's like you just can't get out of that.

You tapped the screen. And once you have tapped the screen, you has just be tapping the screen.

Ah right? yeah. At that point, what what are we accomplishing here? Okay, interesting. Have you guys liked the camera control? Has IT become part of the sort of muscle memory of using your phone in the time .

you've been testing IT? I will say i'm using IT to launch the camera and i'm stick .

with you is an it's yeah but I want my action. I want true action button.

I want to other action button to do whatever I want and then this learn yeah i'm using the launch a camera and I have a set on exposure count because if you ever try to change the brightness of a photo while you're taking a picture on the iphone is like the most inferred thing so um I think i'm going to like that in a long term. But yeah i've just gone back to, like launch IT with the camera control and then push the on screen chater button conversation.

That S A good one because that one you can change after the fact. But how you can you again, you're just kind of like making all these like calculations when you take a iphone photo now um uh the other thing says there are so many ways to launch camera apps and I S A T funds because you can set the shutter button, the camera control button to open whatever. So I have a pretty version of highlight that you can just open there. There's you can change the button on the lock screen, you can set the action button, whatever want, and then you can still from lock cream, slide over to the right and open the stock camera. So by the end of this, you be able to open four .

different million ways in control center. You can anything, the world is your ice, so you can tap on the back to open IT like this.

I say, you know, everyone knows our rule. As you have to review this in the box, you can't really talk about potential or future products. It's our long standing rule. IT is very obvious. So one of the reasons you put a camera button like this on the phone so that when you do launch apple intelligence and you have visual intelligence and phone can look at stuff, you can just get to the cameras fast as possible, or set one of these many ways to open the camera to a regular camera and another one to an AI camera. What everyone to do, none of us of shipping IT, but you can see how apples creating a lot of options for what the camera is doing, only one of which necessarily is taking a picture.

right OK. Um does all this if you guys have been talking about applied to video as well, the styles, the default, some of the same specific I I just talking about this because I know with I O S eighteen a lot of people get really excited about the thing where you can cause a video recording as you're going, which is such a small thing but it's like it's a useful reminder that like, oh, these are as much video cameras for people as they are anything else uh what if you guys had with video .

so far any feelings um I there is a new feature in the um video recording with the I think called audio mix um where after you record your clip you can go in is one of those things that like ninety nine percent of people are not gonna but you go in and edit your video and you can mess with like audio channels and um I I can't keep them straight in my head there's like in frame in studio and they just change how much of the like subject to you hear and how much of the like background noise at tunes out or if i'm talking in like saying dum stuff to my kid while he's playing.

Like I can just like I raise that now and just hear him, which is ideal. That's cool. Yeah yeah.

So i've been playing without a little bit and I I always forget how nice like the cinnamon video is on iphone, like even the regular iphone. It's like kinda that you get that from this seven, five, nine, nine phone. So yeah.

so i've been shooting the review video with our video team with their energy rising producer um we tested autistic honest in the street festival in new york city. They held up really IT wasn't perfect you can watch to deo IT but IT holds up which is remarkable and that this theyve added for studio quality mix to the iphone, which is interesting that the record spatial audio as well, but if they're really there for this audio ic feature. And so you play the video back on an apple TV IT plays in five point once surround sound for some reason, like not know your kid can speak up, uh, if you airport is only in steria. But if you somehow get the file to an apple T, V, A, play through photos, whatever you get, five phone in transit is just like a crazy thing for a phone to be able to do.

But it's all you can surround video that i'm going .

to watch vertically on my phone like, yeah IT IT took a one time. poor. The people that have us, like I have a number, surrounds some questions and they are like, okay, this is going to take us a long time so that all the pro the big feature is fork one twenty and shooting four k one twenty and log and you can tattle these extracts nal drives and even at the time of his life doing this and he came being like, this is fun um but one of the weird pieces of his puzzle is that it's still an iphone.

It's like an incredibly personal device tii do an I cloud account that wants you have brain store is all the a goal of stuff and using as a professional video cameras started run right up against the fact that it's A F, it's a phone I meant for a person, right? This isn't like a utility. Like IT are office.

We have a gear room where a video produced from across the company, like check out cameras, they are not like time accounts. And so if you just in this place where this phone is getting incredible, coming incredibly powerful video camera, but the way the software thinks about IT is still as one person's phone, and he is kind like running into that reality. And I think apple will will find some way to solve IT.

It's obviously what people use this as video cameras. But in that one context, it's like, do you want to install game center? And why why do I do? Next you're .

shooting the weekend. There's you know, music video and it's like .

you're getting in our CS message .

now I want fair enough. okay. Um so the the last thing i'm curious about is whether this has brought up any what is a photo pocalypse feelings from both of you IT doesn't seem like apple has done much of the like here, some wacky editing stuff you can do that is either very cool or the end of truth and humanity in the world. Uh, what has been your experience so far? Have you had any these feelings run across any this stuff?

I my experience is a weird one because I more less came over from the pixel nine. I was doing all those reviews and .

picking fall on what is a photo .

yes yeah just so beyond what is a photo and then picking this up, i'm like i'm playing with slighter like i'm i'm dying in like saturation and contrast is like just such a violent different experience and I um yeah I am digit but I haven't had anything um you know throw me into A A world end of what is reality yeah I would say i've been easy .

in pixel line in this part of this review and also an strain for ultra and both of those phones like A I don this may I like you pick up A A pixel on, open the cameras like are you ready to make some weird stuff with me? There is a great and this this phone is not that apple is releasing one feature with apple on telling the future called clean APP, which is a swim magical, what you take stuff out.

So we'll see how that works and we'll see if that causes any particular what is a photo. Apocalypse thoughts, but I think apple is gonna play IT pretty safe. And I spent some time with the comic, who is the VP of camera software engineering at that every year he had essential. And I basically asked him to respond to the pixel team of google saying they now make memories and set of photos which said wired peace um and on that what's a photo? So here's what he told he answered we've got to mac ic from apple, uh, answering the question, what is a photo and apples want so here's a crop is long my apology um here's our view of what a photograph is.

The way we like to think of IT is as a personal celebration of something that really actually happened, whether that's a simple thing like a fancy cup of coffee that I had that got some cool design on IT all the way through to my kid's first steps from my parents last breath. IT is something that really happened. And it's something that is a marker, my life, and something that deserves to be celebrated. That's the answer. IT happened.

deserves to be celebrated as a really weird plays to end that thought. But I think like IT, IT is A A personal celebration of something that really actually happened. Something that really actually happened is like A A thing. I hold hardly agree with cus on that.

That feels good. I think this is time to they, why they are so intent on bring up the shadows and dropping the highlands and capturing all of the detail in solving the back let photo, right? They are like, we're gonna get a photo of this, whatever IT is, right? And that I I think I agree with Operations in odd word but I I think what they mean of IT is like they need to honor the the moment I .

see right like that.

I ve I ve been puzzling over this quote since he said that to me um and that's what i've gotten to is like I think that's why this camera is so aggressive and so many of the things that does because apple is they do not want to be in a hook for IT was the birthday party and you all to in front of the window and everyone's face was in shadows, right? There is a bright light, right? Like that is a photo a lot of people have taken by accident.

And apple is not gonna that happen. You know, none of the from manufacturers are not that happen anymore. They are all chasing that same idea, which is we are going to get this we are to make this photo um and just it's gotten do you like a set of esthetic trade offset? Personally think as we are at times, I also you might think shadows are good to but .

um yeah when .

I i've been thinking about the word celebration here for a minute, I I think that's what that means, right? Like the the taking of the photo is a real moment that we were not onna screw up and IT actually happened. I'm curious, right, whether over time the competitors or less idealistic, push apple off this position.

You can already see IT with some of the aggression processing we've done in response to samsung in other markets, right? Beautification filters and things like that are much more prevAiling and much more accepted in markets like china. Apple hasn't got ten all the way that far, but they are starting to let people do IT right in in different ways.

They start let go because that is the competitive pressure. If google starts on a lot of pixel phones, because you can just add weed every photo by literally writing ad weed to photo like who knows is what's going to happen yeah but that's where they're starting today. And I think clean up is like a little bit off of that. But his other point to me was the only do things that are rude and photograph tradition and taking stuff out of the background at this point is pretty much a part of po photograph tradition.

I mean, that's there. I I think i'd buy that this IT doesn't like a pretty slow slope from that sort of honorable starting point. I think that is like we are we are going to get the thing you wanted to get, damn the shadows in the esthetics, right? Like where you're going to see all the faces in that back late photo, even if IT makes everything else look click trash because the thing you wanted was the face.

I actually think that's like a reasonable place to be. But then IT IT does cause lots of trade us. And I think to your point about like face filters, now this up like apple has seemed to start coming to this place where the like we're gonna you do IT we're not going to make IT super easy.

But if you want to do IT, if you want to just nasty up your home screen, yeah you can now, you can now. We don't want you to, but you super cn now. And and there is definitely a thing that apple is like, look, if if you wanna ruin IT, you can that's on you dog. And and I think to some and I think that's actually the right approach, but it's it's interesting to see how far apple will go with that approach. And just basically be like we didn't do IT, we just let you do IT yeah which is very unapplied and very interesting to watch as he tries to figure all of this out.

I do think one of the reasons apple hasn't gone into for what is a photo apology story is there is no like meaningful at scale photo verification centre that works but at the c to P A which literally day were recording, google said it's gna support in search and ads but not put an angry um so this idea that I take a photo and have IT verified that this is a real photo that happened and you know track the chain of that.

It's know whether IT was A I generated or not. And that's the crypto graphically in the meta data. That's a big idea.

There's a lot of company is signed up to make that idea work. Apple is not one of those companies said. And I I think their point of you is we don't adopt this until we know it's work.

It's worth IT and it's actually the thing we untie ourselves too, because IT is the most popular camera in the world. So I think if they can solve that problem or the industry can solve that problem, which who knows, big open question. I think that gives all these companies more freedom to to let you all kinds of wai AI stuff. But I think you have to solve that problem first.

Yeah, I think that's right. Last thing and then I got to take a break. Battery life, uh, full last week of fees about best battery life ever. That didn't mean anything and didn't even have raft that didn't mean anything, just a lot of open in a statement about battery life. Uh, have either review noticed any changes in the barry life of your iphone in your testing so far?

I I think i'll it's good, but it's not like it's you can get two days out of an iphone battery all of a sudden. It's just sort of like, yeah, I think this IT keeps up with me all day. I can do home and just stuff and stream the radio station and do GPS and and its okay.

I think the question in on our minds is like, how's this onna perform in the longer? And like the fifteen pro has been kind of notorious for running down the battery health like alarmingly fast. So yeah, it's like T V, D.

It's fine. Now on the sixteen, in the sixteen plus, you can just like add thirty percent to like it'll go that much more because it's just massive. But that's been my experience yeah .

I I have the same general experience at the sixteen pro max, which is a huge phone by the way, bigger battery IT um and IT runs longer. I mean, i've had the camera a open in the stream on shooting this video the whole week. Basically fine, it's to instruct.

But my fifteen pro doesn't make IT through the day anymore. And so does a brand new phone make IT through the day? Yes, I think that is the case for every brand new phone.

Six months or now or a year from now when you're still looking your fourteen hundred and investment, is he going to is going to survive. And I we have to find out, I think apple is actually on a bad run of this. And the fourteen pro was bad and the fifteen pro was bad and hoping the sixteen per is Better.

Yeah, I agree. And even in the best case, and I feels like we're still very much at you can use your phone all day, but you should probably change that every night. And until we're past that, don't give me big speeches about Better life.

Oh no, I mean I mean a difference for entirely are you yeah i'm um until I don't to leave my house with a little mag safe battery, don't talk to me. Oh wow, right. That's why I am out of the fiction pro. I leave the house of the battery pack or I put IT into low power mode, right? And that batteries only ninety three percent according to IOS.

That's pretty that I know people .

who are down in the eighties or after a year.

I I mid eighty nine past I checked a few days ago, yeah.

it's pretty that is all the spent is possible to measure you stay at home in a lifetime, but this matter is a great to leave the house. You going to like three, four chAllenging excel environment if you take the subway from hunting between stations for signal, like you're going to run the battery on faster. So the idea that this is just Better is probably true in the beginning. You're a radically different experience. I think apple's chAllenged now is maintaining Better health over time, especially because the Better replay on these are more expensive than they than they were before.

right? Yeah, right. We will see. I think this is going to be a particularly fun generation of iphone to come back to in six years. All this offer will change, literally is possible that the whole like value prop of an iphone will change if apple is right about what all of this stuff can do, particularly for the sixteen that .

I think that becomes. The Better, I know, but though it's Better, we have no idea what the effective apple. Here's a bunch of stuff that might just be running the backgrounds somewhere ized everything in your phone at all times. And we don't know that the apple on intel gent goes to the cloud, write the private cloud compute for a bunch of stuff. Yes, it's going to run near radio at a bunch of moments and we don't know when or how like we're going to find yeah.

turn up right. We got to take a break, Allison. You're going to come back in a little while because we have one more thing to do on the show. But thank you both god, to be at finishing .

your reviews.

Thank you. Thanks, guys later. We're going to take a break and then they're going to come back and we're going to talk apple watch and were going to talk airports.

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Reback, let's get to the apple watch. So more new models, some new colors, new sizes, new screens, new ideas about battery life, lots of new software. You can read another line of text to job.

Things is very exciting. I think these are good upgrades. They seem like good upgrades. But what is all of this new stuff really add up to? I'm sitting here with my watch series eight, wondering if two years later, it's finally worth and upgrade.

V song has been testing all of this stuff and has been thoughts it's get into IT v song, walk back. Thanks for having me. So many watches, all the watches. How many watches have you worn in the last twenty four hours?

Last twenty four or four four in the last twenty four hours? Three of them apple watches.

actually five.

two of them more ultra tudes, but they're not the same ultra too.

So even they are kind of the .

world are the same ultra too, but one of them a different color. So yeah, yeah, there is a real .

theme this year of just like what if we put a code of paint on IT? Is that new?

What if you needed a different material? Is that new? yeah.

But so I think for the most part here, we should probably talk about the series ten because I think that is that is the one with actual sort of new stuff going on.

Some newness is is happening.

Yeah so let's start with the outside of IT because there I just can't get over this video that like it's still seared into my brain all week of just this like very long pen shut down the watch band and it's like, okay sure we had this is a thing anyway how is IT? It's it's dinner. It's bigger. What's the verdict?

It's dinner and bigger and lighter which you know that that is the thing.

Those are good things. I like all those things.

Those are good things. Those are good design choices. Um it's just if you know what an apple watch looks like, no amount of adjectives is going to really know change the fact that IT looks like an apple watch IT looks like k all the apple watch like you know when we were in the theater and he's like a design that you've never seen before.

It's like regret form. You I have seen this design before. IT is just been tweaked. They're very nice tweak.

I'm not trying to disperse ge the tweet IT is I will say there has been even though there is like a winning of the watch like IT is a lot thinner, you know take a lot with a Green assault nine point seven millimeters that is quite thin for smart watches. Generally we see them in the eleven to thirty millimetre range, sometimes fourteen fifteen if they're chunk ers. Um so that is quite thin.

I'm not i'm not trying to say that that's not A A thing, but i'm just saying it's the there has also been an beginning of IT because you know when the first apple watch came out back in twenty four, twenty fifteen, IT was thirty eight millimetres and forty two millimetres. Now we are at forty two millimeters and forty six millimetres. So the small watch has become what was the biggest watch back in the day.

The I mean, this is this is what happens, right? This is like the iphone in donating of, yeah the whole thing this is this is how IT goes.

There is like A A real sand set is you know ten years into the apple watch, there is like an iphone unification of IT and that they're facing similar problems now where updates every year are iterative and like sometimes they feel very iterative like, wow, I think I saw someone online say about both the one and yeah IT does IT does feel like an next year in some ways. And I think people are hoping for more of like a big jump of a year.

okay. But I will say and this is this is the thing about the little hardware changes that i'm most curious about is the sort of ideal watch screen size seems to be bigger. While the ideal watch size seems to be smaller, at least for me.

there's a lot of min maxing happening. yeah.

And so what I wonder is with this one does IT feel like apple has gotten closer. I know you have kind of a tortured relationship with the size smart watches over the years. I really do.

But i'm very curious if IT feels like this one. If you can make IT a little bigger, but a little thinner and a little lighter, maybe it'll still feel smaller despite being bigger. And maybe that's the right combination of things.

I think they're onto something. Ki, whether people appreciate that is gonna be a different thing. But you know I am wearing the forty two millimeter, I me the smaller size because I am a small er person so I have the forty two millimeter.

Uh series ten we think is like the default size, by the way. Like I feel like when I was thirty and forty two, I think most people bought forty two. But now that is forty two and forty six, if you just pure off the top your head, guess which would do you think is like the main one people have?

I would think the forty two, to be quite honest, because about it's quite impressive. Um so actually the forty six millimeter uh serious time has the largest display area of any apple watch and that is including the ultra.

which is nuts which is .

nuts when you think about like truly the min max zine has happened here with with the the forty six millimeter and that's quite impressive uh and actually quite compelling to a lot of people who have ultras who don't love the weight, me being one of them when I run, you know like I love our global band. But the problem with the verbal band is that my wrist is a little too small, so have to wear in a little loser.

So I really feel that drug when i'm running that is not the case when you have a series ten IT is there and lighter IT feels like you're not really wearing quite as much when you go on to run. I think for some people, that will be quite compelling, especially since I do have the forty two millimeter and I write write on the same mist right next to the to the ultra. I'm not really looking at that much smaller of the screen to the forty two is slightly smaller. I believe that the ultra, not by much, not by much.

And I remember when the first ultra came out, we were talking about IT. And I think IT was nei who got really excited about IT. He was like that.

I'm just going to level with you. I can use any of these features. I know carbon and our doors zy nonsense. I am going to sit on my culture, look at this huge screen and apple watch ultra.

And I think that's a lot of people, right? And I think especially 哼 as we get to this thing where apple is big on glintin information in its an A I and put output system， like I kind of get the appeal of like how much screen can we put on your risk before IT feels bad and IT sounds like they've got that baLance kind of right. Like does that forever change the appeal of an apple watch to most people if you feel like probably not.

probably not, but within the violence, like as far as where ability goes, like I they did make some like meaning full, significant tweak in terms of ability, especially. You know, part of the impetus to make these lighter and more comfortable and more wearable is sleep tracking. Sleep tracking has historically not been the apple watches like biggest strength, just because one battery life is not as impressive as other a whereabouts.

This category, which you know they're dressing with faster charging but also comfort. Like I i've been living with the alter two for the past year. It's not fun.

It's not what I recall the most comfortable, smart watch to sleep with. It's just not good. So you know in that respect, i've been wearing the uh, serious tand sleep and it's a lot more comfortable than the ultra too. So you know sleep tracking is the thing that's important to you.

That is a thing there is a blurry of the lions now because of something that I often figgers a lot about in last couple of days, is the ultimate of the serious hand, because IT does feel like they were like there are certain things about the ultra that have really gotten people excited. Let's port that over to the series ten. So now you have people online just really confused as to like should I ditch the ultra? Because as you said, some of these people are not athletes, uh, are not very like into the training aspect or like the outdoors is of of the ultras.

They don't need on GPS. They don't need an eighty disabled sirion that's like you know like these things that we're made for to be extreme and raw outdoorsie. They just really want that big beautiful screen and the lightness of IT.

So like for them, you are starting look at the titania version, which I I say it's very fancy yeah I feel very special what wearing IT i'm like, oh, I feel expensive and IT is expensive. So it's at six ninety nine. The the ultra is I think just one hundred dollars more.

So you're starting to get to the point is like what am I buying and alter? So I think like the real question is like who is supposed to get what? Because the Prices, especially if you get the nice real, they start not the same.

So like the watches themselves also is just like, okay. So really what we're getting down to is um battery like battery is a big thing. And do bin G P S for like feel like me. I am just like, oh, how do I feel about giving up door bin G P S because I really want to know down to the hundreds of a like what my run was this morning for um and then you just like battery life I think um for the ultra is kind of gonna be a distinguish factor because .

yeah so glad you seem me that for like an everyday user the question of skills is kind of more complicated than ever I think like and this is a classic apple right now right there is a time when I was like, okay. I can pretty quickly explain to you which thing in the line is which and now it's like there's the cheapest one and then everything up from there is confusing. And where you land on that line is very hard.

But I think my instincts is the same as yours that there is going to be a lot of people who would have wondered an ultra who are now going to be perfectly happy with a serious ten, which does all the same stuff in terms of, like, data day use. I has an even bigger screen, is later like that, all seems like a Victory. Except for the battery life like the ultra, this is the thing that has gotten me for the last couple of reps of this thing is the battery life is like an order of magnitude Better. It's not like slightly Better. IT is twice as good and that is a .

huge IT is you can go two days without charging if you have an ultra. Whereas I am still charging daily if I have the series ten. And you know, I had I think I had a twenty five minute hour this morning and I went from sixty seven percent ish to a hundred within time.

That's g that's .

pretty .

good. Mine is currently charging much slower than that.

I I will say that fast charging can be tricked with the apple watch because when you have to make sure that the charger supports fast charging and do you have to make sure like all of your accessories are are like gonna do the fast charging for you because other like even with the ultra which supports fast charging, like my mind spouse is just like I didn't charge what happened.

So like there, I found that to be like a thing that people have trouble with in general with knowing whether the charger they're using is actually gone to support that. So especially since it's even less clear if you buy a dog, the dogs that don't all support the fast charging for the apple watch, that can be very confusing. So yeah, battery life, you know the ultra just is a lot more reliable when you stick IT into battery saver mode.

IT does last quite a while in that mode. So I really think like battery life is kind of the distinguishing factor here because you're going from daily to a multiday. And for a lot of people, that is really difficult.

Give up. And I stand. why? why? Because you take the smart watch off, there's a good chance you are not going to put IT back on. So that is the thing like, I mean, garmin fans, I love you eller and sufferable about like clearing the battery life is like, yes, yes, yes, we know we know that the garment has the Better battery life. You also don't do quite as much so that there is like that trade off there.

Yeah the big other thing about the series time, i'm curious about then i'm curous that does anything else that has jumped dut to and testing? Is the speaker both both the like? I I was thinking about this after the event a like a god help us if we get to the point where people like playing music and podcasts and yelling into their, like, awful, just stop an disaster stuff like sounds, often also, i'd probably do IT like this.

Would I occasionally like to be able to listen something through the speaker of my watch? Yeah, do I hate that? Yeah but like, so this is what I wonder, have you been have you been testing this at all? Are you running around listening to just like bumping Taylor swift out of watch?

Has this going? I will not be bumping tailors lift out. I am a cap up head so I have been bumping cap pop out of my smart watch um but there is like a question of adequate there because if I am on a subway, that just makes me a jerk doing that.

Um and I think apple itself is very aware that people are primarily going to be using headphones when they listen to stuff through the watch. That is the natural way of doing things. I'm a little baffled by this feature as to like why. And I think IT just comes to uh, topic you and I have talked about is just open your transparency like meeting that situation awareness like where I find the most natural to use is when i'm at home and I have to kind of cook and you know I find that it's Better if I don't have had finds in when i'm cooking because, um you should know what appliances are and boobs at you. I have a minute of a cat who thinks he's catoe and wants to help, and I gotto make sure he's gonna burn himself.

Well, looking upon, you know, that kind of stuff or the bus comes in, they have a question and like then you have to take out your headphones and you're like, so in those instances, yeah like it's actually kind of nice to have IT playing on the watch because is closer to you. I leave my phone. I have a recipe up there.

I'm trying to do different things. So in that instance, sure, I doesn't get that loud. It's loud enough.

But like if you were to actually whip IT out and just try and play your music like a jerk on the subway, uh, no one would hear IT because it's it's just really loud, the ambient noise of super loud anyway. And IT doesn't get that loud. Like if you do on a quiet room, you're definitely going to be able to hear that.

But yeah, does IT have the best sound quality also? No, like if you care about like hearing the high hat in the distance, like in a max like that, let's be real. This is that not happening here.

But yes, I mean, to me, that actually feels like the right outcome. The only occasions I ever would use this really is for like phone calls, occasionally out of the watch, when like my phone is somewhere else, or walking or whatever, or the situation, like the one you described where i'm in the kitchen cooking, or even like you see the people on a on a bike ride at the blue tube speaker, whatever, like little things like that.

There are moments in time I can see this being sort of OK. And the fact that it's not good enough to be annoying on the subway actually feels like a huge Victory. So that is good for the world that the speaker is not .

good enough to do that yeah and they're shows the speaker and I like put on they are like yeah doesn't get that look I like yes IT doesn't like I don't that no you don't want IT to so it's like it's appropriate for like your headphones die and you want to listen to the last two minutes of your podcast or something like that is appropriate for that is not really we're not we're replacing phones as playing something are not replacing speakers. It's just it's there if you need IT in a pinch that part of situation yeah.

that's fair. Uh, has anything else jumped out to you about this one as you've been reviewing?

It's just lighter and thinner and bigger. It's like really all about the screen and what's really kind of jumping out to there's .

a whole extra line of text. I still I never not hear them saying that you can read an extra line of text.

There's a whole extra line of text oh actually because the screen is bigger actually like the buttons are also slightly bigger.

which is great.

which is great if you have nails like me, uh, right now during reviews season and like touch screens and nails are not friends, sometimes they're not friends. So this actually does told me a little bit a when i'm putting in the past code that kind of nice.

The thing that I have been thinking about those whether we've reached the end of main maxing size of screen versus comfort because um I really do not think we can get the case size much bigger like once you get to the forty three, forty four millimeter as like the smallest size, you are leaving out quite a large swath of people because I have small rist, but I don't have the smallest risk. I know lots of like mostly women out here with very, very tiny bird rest. And the forty two millimeter with this giant hankey screen is kind of gonna be the biggest that I think is going to be usable for them.

After that, we start getting into a territory that's not great. And so I do think that means, like we got to solve this battery issue because, you know, I will saw this on the pixel. I watch three, two, like the forty five millimeter, that's about the biggest eye could go comfortable.

Ly, and so I don't know where companies are. Gonna go from here. As far as, like these big screens, a small, smaller st, I feel like we've reached the limit.

So nice, nice that you pulled out the the tricks and the stops. But what's next year? And we're gonna go like the puzzle is eight point seven, six percent thinner.

Like are we just gonna that right? Because, you know, I did see some people online and I think you only need to calm down about how like just visually, that the changes from the nine to the ten make the vessels look slightly larger on the ten. That is like optically speaking.

true. Also, as someone who uses all matter of smart watches is not that serious, is really not that serious. A lot of the apple watch on screens like the pixel watch ones make use of the darker background and the puzzle. So it's functionally depending on what watch face use, it's functionally you're not you really not going to see IT there, but oh oh oh wide OLED so you can view more angles。 That is surprisingly like it's one of those things that just like okay yeah whatever uh but like when you're just like very discretely trying to read uh a funny text message in a meeting and you go go yeah that that actually is kind of kind of fun. I agree with that.

and IT does my my stride belief since the first days of the apple watch has been that if you have a smart watch that doesn't tell you the time every time you look at IT, you have failed. And this is another step in the right direction of when I look at my watch, it'll tell me the time this is a Victory. Um okay.

So IT seems to me that if you're in the position of like I need to upgrade my watch, you have an old one. He broke batteries, terrible, whatever. This is probably the one to get right, like the last couple of years I spent, like you could maybe go back a year and I would be fine, but IT feels like this one is probably worth the upgrade.

It's pro. I think that is worth the upgrading to this. Like there are a few exceptions, I guess like if you really like the color pink and you're going to go with the aluminum, a last year is pink, is more pink than this year's rose gold.

There are like a very small number of people I am talking to at the moment here, uh, who care about that particular color. The one thing I would ask people to consider is blood oxyde. Uh, if you live in U. S, if that matters to you in any capacity at all, if you do upgrade to the time, you will be losing that feature.

If you upgrade at all.

oh like IT, if you upgrade and you are in the U S, if you're outside of the U S, you still get blood oxygen. Love that for you. Um but ah my my thought though as a cavy is really readers I have not missed.

Using the series ten. So there's that it's not that serious. Lake, i'm gna be real. I don't think most people use the water oxygen APP.

yeah. okay. But then the other question is like if I have an either and nine, my watch is fine. I'll get some trade in money. If I get the ten, is IT worth like going out of my way to .

go get the ten? Calm down? no? okay. Like calm down?

no. yeah. I mean that this is kind of what he feels like this whole year of our products is right. It's like these are good ones if you need a new one, these are probably the ones to get. But if you don't need a new one, there's nothing here that is going to give you like incredible gadgets for more yeah.

I say that .

except maybe the taniwha tiny a little bit.

The titanium am a little bit because I will say, you know, just in my experience in the past, using stand list still, IT ter IT is significantly lighter to have the titanium and IT looks just like the stainless still and it's very pretty and IT has a little coding over IT to prevent scratches. We'll see that. That's not something I can know over like a really short term period like that has to be tested over a few months.

Scrapes, cats trying to eat the watch like that sort of thing. But how can I say really looks nice. I was just look out like wow, ale, fancy.

And my outfit has been upgraded by like several points just because IT looks much nicer. I have like very sporty accessory, so I don't look polished. But I was like, oh, H, I could go to a wedding .

in this and look cool.

It's a little like super Spike IT. IT is IT is a nice ite, nice colors, colors or nice this year .

that's not helping my filmo as somebody with a perfectly usable series aid. But that is probably the answer.

Yes, no, you you're in the chill out zone. I think .

the only I live.

the only people who I think have a debate on their hands are people with serious sexes like these are the only ones who I think. Series five older time to upgrade ah three, six, ah you could make a very good case for IT. Series seven, series eight, series nine, I think you could just chill.

F right? V, thank you so much, as always.

Yeah, thanks for help me .

one quick note before we move on. V N, I did talk very briefly about the sleep apnea testing stuff that in the upper watch now, but when we talked, IT had come out yet, and there were questions about F, D, A approval. Anyway, IT did get approved by the F, D, A.

And IT will be in the apple watch. And that is the thing we're going have to follow up on. That's also a hard thing to do in a review cycle.

The health stuff is complicated and IT takes time. So we're going to let v do some real proper testing on that, and we will get back to you on all things. See back here.

Anyway, let's move on. Let's do air pods. airports. I confess, only ones I am most personally fascinated by. I'm forever looking at this perfect middle ground of coffee, good sounding, not terribly expensive, and noise cancelling headphones. And the perfect middle ground of that does not exist, at least IT has not existed so far.

But IT seems like apple might be inching ever closer with the airport ads for I know this is a hard thing to get right, so i'm not getting my hopes up, but i'm very, very, very, very curious. Chris welch has reviewed all of these for us over the years. He has the new pairs. It's chers watch. Hello.

hello, David.

a pleasure to be back. You just had funds. This is I feel there are other things we should talk about .

are very.

So i've realized that unusually this year with apple devices, the first question I have to ask is what are you actually testing? There are things apple announced that haven't shipped yet. There are things apple announced that aren't shipping for a very long time. You you got some devices. What have you been testing that you actually have access to right now?

Um so i've got the airpower s four of both pair, the standard pair and also the new pair that is uh cancel tion for the first time. That's really all i've been testing this whole time is really like how well does noise translation work in this open style of year.

But thankfully, like all the features are there on day one with this product, unlike the rest of apple set up this year, so that all works out of the box, which you know always very nice. So I just been kind of going back and forth and they sound the same. So there's not much there between.

That's all good. They are really good. Like honey, like i've never been like a standard air pod's person because like for years they just didn't fit my ears right at all.

Like you would like in just a certain way to get them stay. These ones do a Better jobs in my years. So so far, so good.

I think. Okay, how different is the design is always detail in the photos. And .

renters and ipads have always .

worked really well, and I really like the way that I feel. So every time they're like we've changed the design, no, don't change the design.

And I changed that ever so slightly using fifty million scans like data points of like ear shapes. So the usual, but okay, not that compared to the last once, compare them directly, pretty similar.

okay. So the ideas there are some people for whom they should fit now, but they shouldn't not work for anybody that they did work for before. Hopefully, hope there's always someone going to complain. I know, yeah, I will be me.

I mean, I say they work for me, but also like the number of times they've just fAllen out of my head, I don't know what work for me really counts as in a lot of kids right? Um but I just seem like the big question with the airpower s for is just as simple as is A N C worth fifty dollars, right? Like that's the Price difference. That is the only feature change as far as I can tell, is that kind of the .

frames there are some other differences. You get the wireless charging, which might be enough a lot of people to spend fifty six four there is that the case has the speaker for fine mine, which i've never used, uh, but it's there if you need IT. And that's really are the main three features that IT has over the standard one. But the battery life there, both I P fifty four, I think what are resistant. And so yeah, that's all the same between the both okay.

I am sadly bumped. I have to say that we didn't get that one of the rumors right before was that there might be a more interesting capacity case with like some music controls on IT like we seen from some of these other parties. I am slightly disappointed .

we get have to say still, the White house is smaller. It's like so tiny now it's almost like a square shape that it's gotten like.

so okay.

so sorry people listening to this.

It's like, imagine A A piece of orbit gum stretched a little with that case like, like now yeah uh, so all right. So what's first all but let's just science. This is a little bit for a second.

The idea of A N C on a pair of opener headphones like the ipod s for I know you were skeptical going in that this is even a thing that is possible to do or do well, how does apple do A N C on something like this? Like how does that even sort of, in theory, work? As opposed to a pair of headphones, you can shove interiors that actually physically block out a lot of things.

So I went down with, for example, this are the budget three that have the same kind of concept, doesn't work IT quite as well. But the technologies is the same between these. The airports are like, so there are mixes and the airbuses, they scan for noise and they are play like the inverse of whatever you're hearing to kind of cancel IT out.

And so apple says they like kind of change the drivers. So they like till towards your ears more with these. And I guess that helps out when IT comes to the ant.

And so like I been pressed if like set respective tions, I get nowhere near the prose. It's nowhere near tips. So you can't like put these in your ears and have everything just like fade away. I'd say that cuts things down by like thirty percent, maybe forty percent, probably ly thirty ish.

So like if you like, what I found is like you can just put the man and have quiet, but if you play in music, that's really where you noticed that you don't like turn up the volume is loud as you would would have otherwise. Like that's really part of this A P I think also kind of times like apples, like hearing health stuff lately. So you just don't have the kind of volume has been at the main benefit. But if you are going to plan and you're like just turn them on music, you're onna hear everything around, you're still so it's not gonna be some miracle, right? But it's nice and okay.

So is maybe the right analogy just in terms of what this feels like in practice? Uh, like a pair of over ear headphones without the noise cancellation turned on, like it's you put them on and everything, it's quieter and a little more isolated. But it's not like when you flip IT on and like the noise from plane disappears.

Yeah no, not at all. OK takes off. Like you hear what kind like it's like a White noise machine.

Like you would still hear like a fair amount nose in the background. And like I was at a bar last night, super output for the sake of trying. And I could still hear conversations nearby, people talking.

So it's not to like change that kind of environment. But I did cut IT down. So I was playing music at like seven percent volume. And I could still hear my music just fine. And so like IT does does make a difference, which I think this can be enough for a lot of people to just kind of say tifto books, why not know post the wireless charging and what not so right what?

Yeah it's to your point about the hearing house stuff, that way of thinking about reducing the noise is actually a limping because you can see that is a negative, right? Like what that sounds to me like is when I get on a plane, it's still going to be very loud. So these are not going to replace like the the boys headphones that I like to get on a plane with because it's quiet.

Help me sleep while I watch me be right. But on the other hand, the thing you just described, like I can listen to music at the bar without IT being impossibly loud and still sort of hear the people around me, is actually that's a use case, right? That's a real that's a real thing. And it's it's kind of a hack on transparency mode in a certain way where you have headphones that let you hear the world, but also your music. And if if apple can get that baLance rate, that's both it's a pro and a con of the level of A N C.

In a strange way. So there is transparency mode on this as well. And you would think, like, why is that necessary to your birds? So IT do like certain frequencies, like a voices. You can hear people easier when you turn on the the transparency mode. And it's got all the like air bud's prosoft's stuff like the conversation awareness.

So when you start speaking, the volume goes down die a so that's all there at which is nice sound called, is actually like surprisingly and is like the base responses like way Better than like most of the past models they put out. So that's in my main like thing. I've noticed ah the base responses really good. I know they just sounds really clear. They're still not like my type of airboat, but there is really well made airpower.

So okay, yeah, do you think we're at a point now where the biggest difference between the airports and the prose just in sort of day to day use, obviously, there's the hearing health stuff and all, but do you think the main difference between the two is just going to be how they fit and feel in your ears like he feels like, did the base airports are getting closer to the prose in such a way that the pros are going to be Better? And if if the main thing you want is sound quality, yes, fine, but IT doesn't make the gap between the two in terms of sort of every day sound quality is much, much smaller than IT wants less. Yes, for sure, that's really exciting.

Yeah that is that the process like still sound Better. Obviously an nc is obviously like that much Better than these are. So if you want, the best thing there is that.

So what's like? Good, Better, best, good as their pots for. And they sound really nice for the Price one twenty nine, one seventy nine or the airports, four of a nc.

And then you up to the process. So it's a pretty good straight forward product line up. I can say that like the ipads or whatever, but this is pretty strate. Ford is like what you should buy and like here's what you would get buying that thing.

So yeah, compared to the ipad, everything is straight forward. Know that that's a the point.

yeah. Uh.

does that make sense to you that the airports s, four and the airport's four with N, C, R two separate things like IT IT seems like the Normal apple move in a lot of ways would have been to just scrap the bottom one and say, one hundred thousand dollars is still a pretty competitive Price for this kind of headphone here. Uh, is IT surprising you that the very base model exists at all? Not really.

I think they still want something in that Price point. Is there so many lower cost options to make so many brands, G, B, L and whoever else our sixty dollars, if you have to have something that's like not too far off from that and that's what there are parts for are and you get most of the same, same quality, same sound quality, like much of the same features. The call quality is nice.

I've got this new a voice isolation feature from the airport process as well. So I use the AI, of course, to make you clear on phone calls. So that's on both mines to see you get a lot for one twenty nine. And honestly, but if you want A N C. And why is charging fifty books more?

So got IT OK. And one question we got on the hotline for actually a couple of people was how big deal is, is the h two chip. And I think to some extent, it's just Better, right, like new chips do more things.

And I think if i'm not mistaken, apple mentioned a voice isolation as like one of the things that's going to a get Better with extra processing. Yeah, but i'm also assuming, based on the way you're describing A N C working that that is like that, a huge metal processing this thing has to do. yes.

So that makes me think that they're going to be a lot of people who are like to do. I buy the h one airports because they're going to be cheaper. Or is the h two chip worth IT? And IT sounds like maybe the h two shape is going to be worth IT.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. OK. I D say so. I mean, it's not that much more expensive. And sure, you can find deals on the past models.

But these sound Better first of all, like that's why what by the most of all, they sound significant, Better than the airports three did to my or at least always subjective. But yeah, you have a lot. And like the h two chip is key for a lot of the those features POS.

The anc like this is why they have a lot of these features and the apodaca x still don't because their pods max do not have the h two chip. Uh, so but yes, I would myself out of the a nc model I get is worth just having that there was few actor features for not to turn more money but yeah I mean there is some downside. There is still no multi point which I would love. Apple just loves its like multi device like auto switching which has has gotten Better of last couple years, I think but can still like always like pair of the wrong thing at the wrong time when it's .

like most inconvenient for so I apple is uh I would say guilty a lot of being too clever by half and I think the clever multi switching is the most too clever by half in the apple does I just want a button that says, I never, ever, ever, ever want to connect my airport to my mac money, ever. I have never once wanted to. I am never going to want to stop asking me every single time I sit down in a chair.

If I want to connect my pots to IT just drives me. But that is either there. So you haven't got a chance to test the airport's pro two yet with the hearing health stuff. Others SE there are is good the same, the hearing health stuff is coming, will try that when he comes. A you have, I would say fr, one intents of purposes tried the airpower s max because they are the air pod s max with a USB c port and some new colors new or at some point, I think will end up doing a full review of those because we should there in beyon sale. But my biggest question for you is coming into this event, there was like a little bit of talk about what the maxes might be if there we're going to be maxes on you know, scale warned to ten how surprised you that apple decided to essentially do nothing .

with their products. Max pretty bombed because I like the max. You i'm not sure like why they're like so unworthy.

Actual hard to upgrade after all these years and like I see them everywhere, like people clearly bought people like by like cases for the early year cups. We see these are on the streetwise. So there's a whole life after market um for accessories, for their bods max and the really good headphones. Uh, but I assume apple just has must have some kind of customer data that says like people just don't need like some of their parts are of features, are care. They just want to get on a plane, put this on and zone out like that, all they really want them for.

It's interesting that like maybe there's less to do in that space.

Yeah but like you would think they would want like some of the hearing health stuff there too, like in the over year yeah format to so much sure like what the thinking is there. But you would hope like there's a true airpower s max too not too far off. No, maybe once that the air pod s pro three come out, they'll like do both at the same time.

But but as obama, I mean, they're so heavy in that case hasn't changed the case. Um the case is still as IT was. That is the thing that .

kills me is there are just a couple of really obvious upgrades. I think the basic look of IT I really come around to over the years, I was not wild about at the beginning. I think IT IT looks Better on people's heads than IT does kind of on its own.

So like I in favor, sounds good, works great. But there there are enough sort of little upgrades both in the hardware and the case. And now even in the the processing in this after that, you could make this Better without trying very hard.

And that is the thing that kind of bump me out. So okay, last question. And then then I i'll left that here. The the again, the big question I think a lot of people are gonna is do I get the four or is the worth fifty dollars to get the site for most people? Obviously this remain question, get the cheaper one. But do you think most people the right best option is gna be to spend the fifty box? Is IT worth thy upgrade?

Yeah OK. I think there if you need IT and it's pretty easy to just turn off if you don't like IT, like you can actually feel so like some of the pressure that you would get like their butts. Pro, you should look like some of that sensation.

Some people don't like that, but he kind of turned off if you don't want that. But it's nice to have you know like you're out somewhere on the street and it's like cloud. It'll cut IT down by like like a third or so. But and that's like enough to display your music and not go crazy from like outside, whatever. So yeah, that was that aren't enough.

One of these days, you have to come back and we're going to do pixel buds s, we're going to galaxy buds and we're going to do airports and we are going to put a bunch of bad ending .

on the and are so many good reviews.

right? Thank you. As always.

Thanks, sir. cheers.

We to take one more break and then we are going to take a question from the vertus outline. I'll be right back.

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Welcome back. Look, go to the outline. As always, the number is eight, six, six.

Verge, one, one. The email is verge cast at the verge stock. come. We love all your questions, and we tried to answer at least one on the show every week right now. IT is extremely phone season, and we have .

a question about phones. S and every sense of a teen. I I really love technology and smart phones. I would be the type of person that would upgrade my phone mult times and couple years. But since I ve got noted, gotten a family disposable income and just so can exist the way I did anymore, unfortunate for me, I get an upgrade this year now as somebody that then kind of a tacky guy. Unfortunately, the complicity of the iphone ecosystem is that nice, mainly because of messaging, but also because IT works with with every case and even a apple pay things.

My ask of you is to sell me on why I should get the new pixel fold or the new pixel, uh, pro excel over what at the ship I want to buy into the ecosystem that google offers. I had a fully google home. I'm invested in that ecosystem, but the messaging has always kept me with an iphone.

Um unfortunately, this year I didn't think they really showing why I should get any one phone. But i'm I i'm doing upgrade. So should I spend another three years with apple for two years, whatever the contract is? Or should finally make a move to a be my true teenage self? The third I always want to be.

as I said here, with two phones on my desk and I phone and a pixel 7 pro fold that I am deeply in love with。 I too have question. Alson Johnson back.

hi. Elson, hi. okay. I want to do this in two parts. The first thing I want to do is I want to, I want to throw away all urge to hedge and be reasonable.

And I I want you to make the most aggressive case for switching the the pixel that you possible can. And then we're going to come back around in the side. This is actually a good idea. Okay, but let's let's start with that. If you if sell me and sell our friend kids on switching .

to the pixel, okay, well, got to go for the for the folds. I mean, it's two phones. It's twice the phone. You get a front phone in an inside phone. No, I think like if you are tinkering and if you are into like, oh, I can get my phone to do this and I couldn't do that before, like the nine profit is like the poster child for that like you can the way you can use the the inner screen. Um there's just like there's really nothing else like that is kind of how I would put IT in um you know R C S on I O S eighteen might deliver ate a little bit of the the messaging oes. They're still you know really not a substitute for like face time earning of that yeah two times the phone that's what I got.

That's pretty good. I um have been amazed by how much I like the fold. We're going to come back.

You and I are at some point the next couple of weeks going to have to come back and retire ate our flip first debate yeah because I I have new feelings that are making me sad about my old feelings. And we're going to talk about that. I love this phone.

And I think the kids point about the google ecosystem every time I really reinvest in android, which i've been doing because of this phone, I am reminded of how much Better IT is to be a google user on an android phone. And just in part because german, I is so built into everything, and you can access all of your information in all of the different google services. It's so much Better as a google home controller than the iphone is.

You get like top level access to all that stuff in a way that if you're on your iphone, you always have to launch on that before you can do google stuff. You can just do IT all from the phone, and that's very powerful. But literally, IT is such a nice phone.

It's such a nice phone. I cannot get over how much I like this phone. It's thin. It's the right size. Even if you like, don't open the inner screen all that often, which I don't, it's still a great phone and then you're like, oh my god, there's an inner screen.

I I love this phone and I think the switching cost of gone wait down, which is very exciting like the the idea of that leaving an iphone or going to an android phone is going to sort of break your brain, is just not true anymore. Yeah, weirdly, the thing that is always the hardest for me switching is that you swipe down on your iphone to get to spotlight, and people start searching for stuff and you type up on android. That is the thing that takes me the longest to switch every single time.

Everything else, they've just become so similar over time. They have most of the same features. They do most things the same way.

Apple has adopted a lot of android customization. Android has started to sort of organized the phone in the way that apple did for a long time. They're just not that far apart like we agree with you.

That face time is the single sticky s thing left the R, C thing. One solve everything, but that makes some things easier. You can do register from I message much more easily than you used to.

Uh, liam r produce did this. He bought fold and he turned off I message. And they used to be somewhere between, like, twenty four and seventy two hours. You were in like, weird I message, limbo IT was like minutes yeah this very exciting .

yeah I I live that that dangerous life like several times a year when I sweet true my iphone to yeah one of the other and funds in IT IT is easier. I think there's kind of an outdated notion of like how difficult IT is to switch between these systems. And I am living proof that you can do at multiple times year and there's no like major social costs to IT.

Yeah you will still be a Green bubble but I think yeah like IT, it's fine just being a Green bubble. Leah, your phone has two screens cooler.

Just open up the phone. You need to prove something or someone like, well, do you have two phones attached?

Oh, you can see those words on that screw.

I have a home, something else I think um particularly this year with the pixel series. I haven't tried out the pixel watch three yet, but i'm dying to um but IT seems like that the ecosystem of hardware around IT has also gotten is just elevated this year like the pixel nine hardware. Um the pixel watch three by all accounts is very nice and finally just feels like this is a great smart watch like you you just buy this one when you have a pixel phone and everything is nice. So I think that that's always been part of the the math in the apple equals doesn't like, well, you have this phone, you just buy this, buy this watching you're done and IT all works yeah yeah pixel.

maybe getting there a little bit of a hundred percent. And the other thing is that as google has made all that stuff work really well with like fast pair and nearby share and all this stuff that is sort of kitting its own ecosystem, it's giving that to other companies too. So like where are the point now where apple's ecosystem is probably still a little cleaner and simper and Better are connected, but only if you only buy apple products and google and android have gotten ninety percent of the way there with like the rest of the industry. And I think your just peer sort of number of choices you have of things that you can attach to your devices way Better on android and and like IT won't be way as perfect as just buying an apple watch and scanning the thing and profit set up, yes, but a lot closer and you have a lot more choices. And I think I think black the the whole Better together thing that apple has had for so long is not merely .

the advantage .

at once was yeah ah I am also just sitting here convincing myself to switch to android that i'm using the food .

but I haven't moved my at and i'm it's just time .

i'm just it's just time but okay. So now last question, would you recommend doing this? Like is this if you've been debating leaving the ecosystem, switching apple to android, is this year to do IT? I think .

that is I think that the hardware has been on the pixel side particularly kind of inching towards this. Like is he really a flagships? It's kind of like a mid range thing in this.

I I hold a pixel line up next to iphone sixteen um galaxy s five four and like they are all all just really nice phones and it's sort of feels like the first time that i've i've been like, yeah these these deserve to all be in the same conversation. Um I think it's a really good idea to do IT and I think we're gonna um yet at hear point on the the german ff. I think we're going to get fun LED into these A I subscription nightmares.

Yes, where if you are in the google ecosystem, like I am very much you know in gmail, in google docks and all of those services, it's gonna get weird if you are you know trying to use the A I features and they're behind some kind of like google one pay wall. You know I don't know this is speculation. I don't wanna get too far had to myself um but that is something to consider. I think there is potential for like value of being all in on one system like they're quiet wasn't before, I don't know IT feels like a stick that they're getting ready and just like snap us.

I I totally and I think the system thing is the one thing that weirdly keeps me sort of tied to iphone, like you can use most google things, most of the google universe on a iphone. It's not as good, but it's there not true in reverse. If there are any apple only apps that you like or you like theory, or there are certain apple the experiences that you want to to have, they just don't exist on android.

And I think the question of like, do I want to use a little of both kind of leads you to an iphone in a straight way where I think if you just want na pick one, declare answer at this moment is german. I I think I am so happy if i'm wrong about this in six months, but I have incredibly low expectations for what apple intelligence is going to look like for the foreseeable future. And german, I has many flaws, but is doing a lot of stuff already.

If you wanted, just buy in. That's probably the one to start with as opposed to like crossing your fingers for series to get really good next year. No, but you can a little bit have your cake and needed to on the iphone because there is both theory and there is the google APP, and you can you can have both. And so I think IT in a wireless android forces you to both IT gives you a bigger ecosystem, but also forces you to make a choice in a way that the iphone a little bit doesn't 呀。

Yeah, I think that's fair.

Is so nice.

is so nice, just ten out of ten, unlike nicest.

If this thing wasn't eighteen hundred dollars, I would be like screaming from rooftops that this is the phone everybody should buy a but a dollars and a kids do do with that. What you will. I don't know if we helps IT all, but that's alson.

Thank you. Yes, thank you. right? That is IT for the first cast today. Thank you to everybody who came on the show. And thank you, as always, for listening.

There's lots more on everything we talk about, all the reviews, all of our coverage, all of the hearing health stuff in the airports, all of the sleep neas stuff in the apple watch, lots of interesting things going on, lots of stuff coming in the coming months, lots of coverage of camera tons, all of IT on the world that com. I'll put a lot of links in the show notes, but as always, just go read the site finder violence stuff. And as always, if you have thoughts, questions, feelings or other reasons, people should buy one phone over another.

You can always e mail us at verge, cast at the versa com, or call the hotline. It's six, six verge, one one. Either way, we love hearing from you.

Thank you. To everybody who reaches out every week. IT is the best. This shows produced liam James willard and eric comas. Vertex is a very production in front of the box media podcast network will be back on friday and to talk about A I news, more gadgets, all the stuff happening in the many, many, many tech trials, like so many tech trials and everything else going on right now. We'll see then rock more.

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