President Nayib Bukele: Seeking God’s Wisdom, Taking Down MS-13, and His Advice to Donald Trump
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Thank you for having us. Thank you. And David, which is beautiful.

So you inaugurated two days ago. This is a small country. And yet your inauguration was international.

News was everywhere. why? What do you think that is?

Well, IT, what's a shock for for us too? I mean, no, we knew that a lot of people were coming and and I mean that will draw some attention. Of course, we have we have big delegations from a lot one hundred and ten countries um so of course that will draw news because you know a chancellor comes from the country and he brings his his media team that will create some news over there and if the president comes where king comes, that will create some news even you you came so that created some news.

But why are they coming?

Well, I don't know. Different, different reasons. Of course, I could ask, why did you come?

I came because I think something remarkably happening here. That's why. But i'm interested in why you think people came.

yeah. I different reasons finites, different reasons. For example, the uh the U. S. Government and uh big delegation, but then we have we had also delegation from congress. Yes, they have started this a republic delegates jumps and lation. So I was like, um so IT at up I I don't know at the end what happened, but I think that is like how a star you know how stars are born.

They say that you know the debris that starts join in up and and if they they become an asteroid, but if more than we join so he becomes a planet because you know the gravitation of pool and more the break comes up, IT becomes a star because then the gravitation is too big. So that's that's called critical math. So I don't know sometimes just, you know but bye because knew god wants you like that.

Just joke of look up whatever uh, you get some critical mass in something you are doing and then he becomes bigger than what you then the the summa, all of its birds. So I know probably got some critical mass that we didn't we didn't for. See.

my guess is that of all the countries in the hemisphere, l salvor. Seemed in the tougher shape or close to the bottom in the rankings for everything. Yes, lacking a resources the .

country was born. Is that true? Yes, I mean, the country has been poor once that was born. Yeah, lacking everything, basically lacking everything .

with the dense population, a lot of people fact in yeah um so what do you how did you change IT? I guess I got right to if you can fix out sala, what are the lessons for the rest of us? What did you do first?

Well, of course you cannot do anything if you can have peace, right? And when I say peace, I I include war, civil wars, invasion, a crime. I mean, you need to have peace.

You need to be able to move freely to have your your basic, uh, basic rights respected, starting with the with the right to live, the right to move, with the right to to her property. So you need your basic right to be to be respected. So you need peace as the first of thing, as society will struggle to achieve.

And once you once you achieve peace, then you can struggle. Four of the other things like no. Infrastructure, well, well being, quality of life. But you have to start with peace. So we had to start with peace. And in the case of literally the more capital the and we turn IT into the safest country in the western hemisphere are safer than any other country in the western hemisphere, which is, know, IT was if I, if I would have said that five years ago, they would said that I was crazy, right? Yes, this was the literally the most dangerous country in the whole world.

Your capital is now safer than our capital?

Yes, yes. The country is safer than the united states of home. The the U.

S. Moderates around six murders per one hundred thousand inhabitants in our motor rates. two.

So we're safer than canada, safer than chilis, safer than uo. Is safe than the U. S. Safer than any country in the western hemisphere, the countries in the in the other hemisphere that are safe there there, but not not in the western.

So you did that in just a couple years.

Yes, we did that in basically in three years.

So what bottom and force? What's the formula?

Well, I can tell you the official formula and the real formula. Okay, so official formula is that we do a plan. I mean, did a plan is not that when I say official and I mean is a lie on, we did a uh uh a plan that IT was in Price of faces.

So we roll up the first face and the next one and the next one and then uh gangs to started attacking back. So we need to we had to roll up everything at once like a in a hurry so and um and IT IT worked I worked in a couple of weeks. So we the country was because the gangs were were not yet arrested, but they were in the run. So we had we basically um in the a roll up of python, we basically uh pacify the country in a couple of weeks.

How do you do that? How do you pass fy a country?

Well, with the faces included the building up of the police forces, the army, we double the army, we literally double the army to fight crime, to to to use the army to fight crime. And the we equipped before, like soldiers going to have, like useful guns or no vehicles, drones know basic things that that that an Operation of that magnet will need. so. Yeah we we, we roll, love the faces and then and then we we, we went after them OK.

So official.

that's .

efficient. And what's the real?

It's a miracle. Yeah, I want that what you mean? Yeah, it's a miracle. You know, when gangs are started uh to attacking us back, basically they they killed eighty seven people in three days， which for a country of six million people it's it's crazy.

We would be the equivalent uh sixty times we'd be the equivalent of having five thousand deaths in three days in three, three, five thousand murders in the us. In three days. wow. Yeah so we were were in the meeting and well, when when he started that when he ended but when he started we were in the meeting at my office three A M, four A M just watching you know the the what was happening and trying to figure out what to do.

Because the problem with the gangs is that um they don't they don't only attack their objectives when they want to create terr, they can attack anyone so they can actually kill their grandma yes. And it's your victim, yes, because they don't care about their grandma. You you care about their grandma.

So it's your victim music. If they go their grandma, you want one death. And they, uh, no, they achieved the terror that they want to create so they can call any anybody a woman walking by a guy and walking in the street, a taxi driver.

They can kill anybody. And if, if, if the state goes after them, the state has no intention of of a killing or harming anybody but the gun members. So you have you have seventy thousand objectives, which were the seven thousand nine members, but they have six million possible targets.

So IT was almost any possible task. It's a really war, really. Yes, but I was in possible task because you, you have to go after them.

They were inter wine with the population. They were everywhere and they were killing randomly. How would you stop that?

So we really try to figure out what to do and and basically said, well, I mean, it's we are we are looking into an impossible, impossible mission here. So we play. And and we and we.

you played in the meeting.

yes, yes, of course, several .

times. What did you pray .

for now to wisdom, to to win the war? To have? I thought at the time that we will have civilian casualties. So we we said, we pray that civilian casualties will be as low as possible, and we will have any civilian casualties.

And was everyone in the meeting comfortable that?

Yes, yes, there every all my security cabinet are believe s they all believing god. We are secular country, of course, but we all believe that the team .

is one of the major gangs.

and they are certain. Ic.

also, that was my question. So very, no, no, no. I hope you will explain IT, because very little has been written in the west about this.

There is is.

but, but actually, literally. Can you explain?

Well, they didn't start as a sthetic organization. The m thirteen started in in in the sand els in the us. Because, uh, sabaeans were in allow to sell drugs by the mexican gangs.

So they created a gang that was called eight eighteen street can because they basically wanted to sell drugs in in the street. There was eighteen street, they were there. But then division started to to where create to.

They started dividing themselves and started in fighting. So they created in the mastery team. And and then mr.

Tina, I started out outgrowing the other gangs, and they started exporting the organization to other parts of the us. And when bill clinton decided to, uh, deport those guys, he didn't tell her government at the time. I'm deporting discrimina.

They just know, send them here and they came. They were few, but unchecked at the same time, some, some laws were passed to protect minors from imprisonment. And of course, the gangs use that to recruit fifteen year old, sixteen year old, seventeen year old.

So at the beginning was, you know, a some youth cause causing harm, assault thing, trying to control their territories, selling drugs, things that are bad, but, you know, probably not, not critical, but they grow, they grow, they grow. And they started controlling territories a few years. A few years later, they were actually a huge criminal, huge international criminal organization, that they have bases in italy, what moa mondo s or salva the U S. Basically a lot of major city in the U S. Will have .

stronger .

output as of course have and long island and the lay and it's it's it's a huge comment on international organization. So um so so they grow and they started know h killing more people to just to get territory or to fight against rival gangs, or do you know collect death or no money or whatever. But as the organization grew, they became satanic.

They started doing the nic rituals. I don't know. I start document and we now arrest we even found the authors things like.

yes.

i've seen them and so which they became a uh a statistic reorganization. And even when when you uh sometimes when you interview uh gangs members are in prison, they would say amount of the gang, of course that in prison, but they would say, i'm not a member of the gun anymore and when the S M, Y, I remember one, I don't.

I remember the news out that made this, you know, very well known news showed that made this interview with a Young member in person. We allowed them to go into prisons and and the interviews and the guy that they ask him, how many people have you killed and he said, I remember didn't remember how many about the ten, twenty he didn't remember and then they ask him and you, what is your position in the game? He plays how he went up in positions.

But I left the gun and said, how, why do you left the game? He said, well, because, uh, I was, I am, I was used, I was used to kill the, I was used to to kill people. But I killed for territory, I killed for to collect money, I killed for extortion.

But I came to the no to this house, and they were, they were about to kill a baby. And he killer that had killed tens of people said, h what? What are we doing? what? what? We're gonna ill, that baby.

And they told him, because they beast ask for a baby, so we have to give him the baby. So he said that he couldn't resist that. So he left the end. He's in prison because, you know, is a killer, but he left the again because he couldn't a tolerate what he was saying.

So human sacrifice was apart. Well.

in the united states a couple of ago, a couple of days ago, and now ago, we were going to kill a Young girl. They kill the Young girl, remember, because IT was IT was a tannic ritual. What happened in the us. Couple of weeks ago?

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That's why we created this network, talk her curls and network. And we invite you to subscribe to IT you go to talk across and dog com slash podcast entire archive. Is there a lot of behind the scenes footage of what actually happens in this born when only an iphone is running talker carson dot com slash podcast you will not regret IT so that almost never described in english language press as clearly as .

you just described IT, which is weird.

right? Well, you sort of wonder why yeah if there's a spiritual component that driving IT when I just say so yes. But I guess my point is you saw as that yes.

yes. Course there is a spiritual war, and there's a physical war. And the physical war could be that the unofficial?

Yes, that's the official al version of the spiritual. If you win the spiritual war, IT will reflect into the physical world. So I I think I were.

I I know what I would call that. I was impressive. Victory was because we want the spiritual war very.

very fast. Well, that leads me. I didn't because .

you didn't have competition. I mean, there was a tank. I think they made IT easier .

in your inaugural. And I was listing on headphones for the translation. I want to check this. You said we have achieved this great Victory and made this a safe country, and that's the predict for everything that follows. The next thing we're going to do in this term is, is to work in the economy to make a Better go. The economy you said, I have crack me from a three point plane i'm thinking, no, that is, I don't know, started a federal or bank and you said the first, the first point of my plan is seek god's wisdom that is what you said.

yeah I said, yeah.

why would that be the first point of that?

I can be what what should be the first part of?

I think I should be yeah.

but I can. Most people would think that, right?

I just i've never heard any leader of any countries because because .

they probably, they forgot to represent the people that allow them. They elect them me is like you ask most of the people that elect the politicians they said, yeah, that's funny. I I believe that but then you have the politician he was said, no, no, no, that's not. It's so who who who is he tried to panda into I mean, doesn't make sense, right, do you it's a common sense thing to say god with widom, of course. Yeah.

it's a perrero for wise .

decision make so that's the first .

part of plan IT makes me laugh. Um do you think that that's one of the reasons that your success is which are just measurable, not thanks for ideological reasons, just a fact that you've transform the country in a good way and that you're little with the most popular elected leader in the world. Again, not speculation, proof effect.

You'd think that would be greeted in the hemisphere is the amazing thing like what's going on else. And instead, there's been this what's going on in south door? Yeah, there's been hostility. Yes, do you think? Guess why?

I'm not sure. But one, one of the reasons is that we own panda to them, so probably they don't like that. It's it's probably a reason is I like 那 thus i'm not gonna go into conspiracy theory。

I'm gonna go into into possible effects, right? Like you said. So there's there's worlwide gender, right? This this is proof of facts, right? They have benchmark. They need the countries to follow and they need the countries to do this is, you know, out there, right? And but sometimes if you work on those things, a, you're probably neglecting the important things for your people, the the, the things that your people are really asking for.

Give an example, when we arrested the gun members that were killing, they were killing so much people that we were the murder captain of the world. Litter, the most, most dangerous place in the whole world. More dangerous than hate, right? More dangerous than iraq.

This is was literally the most dangerous country in the world. We have triple the amount of the murdering, the hate, hate rate. Now will they made him that? They have had triple that here.

So what would we have? What do you have to do? You have to stop that, right? And like it's a no brain or me, you you don't have you don't need to have a big thought process.

You just have to stop that. This is the first thing you to do when we did. When we did that, we got huge command nations. You name IT, say our organization, we got a concern ation from them. So and they were, and and a lot of them were human rites organizations.

And he would ask with the human, what about the human right for women not to be raped? I mean, what what about the human right of kids to you know, to play or to be free or to go to the park? And what about the human right to live with the human race, to walk in the street? right? And but no, they were worried about the human rights of the of the killers, which, you know, they have human rights, I don't say they don't, the humans, but but if you have to prioritize, what were you prioritize? And the human rights of the honest, hard working recent people, the human rise they do have, but you, we want prioritize the the the human rights of the killers and rapists and murder.

And um so we we secure the country, and we did IT with no help from any other country and with huge, huge contamination in everything that we were doing, everything I think we we change that in general. We got so much combination because we change a very general that we need to change. The prosecution know the murderer.

So we basically with we they they try to block every a step of what we were doing. And and now it's that the result there that is no, they're tangible, measurable unendurable。 Now they they don't know what to do because a lot of other countries are saying maybe for the country is similar to hours, they have similar problems. They're saying maybe we should do that too, but they don't want that because that's not in their agenda.

I guess that's why I came here, to be totally honest, what your success says about the country that I live in, our other countries in the hemisphere, europe, where people are killed by the thousands every year, and what you've proven with very little money and no help for anyone else, is it's not that hard to fix. Therefore, all that killing must be a voluntary decision that my government and many other governments are making about their own citizens.

You can make that that logical. Why don't know what other conclusion .

to reach if I soviet or can do IT what what's going on here? Yes.

you can make the logical conclusion. I think that's probably where they are afraid of because, I mean, we don't have weapons of math destruction, right? So why are they afraid? Why would they take so much time in and make condemn nations to all save the right?

doesn't? Didn't the moon?

yeah. So I think, I think they are afraid of the example because a lot of people might say, hey, we want that to, if they can do IT with no money, with very few resources and with a huge problem. Because I heard some people say all the submit could do IT, because the problem was not that big, literally, the murder capital, the world.

How big, how bigger can I get? right? We are literally the most dangerous place in the world. Three times more dangerous than hate right now. So I mean, what the bigger can, how bigger can the problem get? And at the same time, we had a little very few resources, and we were able to do IT with no civilian casualties.

Me, after we started the warring gangs, we had no civilian casualties and we we um we lost eight uh, between police officers and soldiers, and we basically eradicated all crime. And and and be arrested seventy thousand guy members, which the number is not the number you just came up. There's the official number that all the organization said we had of gun members.

And you and you watch world bank reports, they said something has around so many thousand guang members at five hundred thousand collaborators. So we spare the collaborators basic again. We only got the guy members.

why? Because most of the collaborators, for just, you know, family members, or you know, the woman is set to T. S. And he had to tell all the police is coming, because if would he would probably have been killed bit again.

So most of the collaborators were not really criminals, yes, just people living in a society that was controlled by by games. The government was really, the real government was the gangs. Just like in hate, you have, you have a fake government.

You have the real government. Government hate is the gangs. If IT was like that, had you had a formal government, of course, with officers in everything, but you have the real government in the territory, which were the gangs.

So I mean, and I know you want to stick to the facts, but I mean, at some point you do have to mean this is a really important question. Why would the government that has the means to end violent crime? Not always me crime people breaking laws, but vika people murdering and raping each other. Yes, is a voluntary decision that the government makes. Why would the government choose .

to have that? I don't know. I don't. I don't know. I I can make up theories, but I would.

You have a got instinct about IT.

Um I think it's a combination of factor is like everything yes, they they might be evil people that that are doing in purpose, of course and probably planning stuff I don't know. Yes possible yeah possibly at the same time, there's a lot of people that they just being fed these ideologies and they think they're doing the right thing. Yeah right. Like allow allowing shop lifting for a sample. There's is the most stupid thing you can think of.

but they do IT. You don't know what a shop lifting here.

of course that so but you would think how why would anybody think allow in shop lifting would be a good idea? I don't know why, why I mean that this is stupid thing to think right? Or are giving away drugs.

I said this, yes. Or give me a way during this to give me a way dry. So is like very stupid things.

And you you would guess some of the people doing in enacting these policies are not necessarily evil. They're just no, they've been fed this idea of the things they're doing the right thing. It's like I give an example um I think a month ago or something like that yeah a good month.

The spanish police arrested a gung member that that has that had fled either so the guy members escaped. He he, he flew, he flew, he went to spain and with an international Operation between the police of of hour police and spanish police and end to interpol, they were able to arrest the guy. So in that, in those cases, you need to do the extradition, because this is an automatic international Operations.

So what? They just get the guy and processing and send him, yes, send him to the original police for they filed the claim. So the spanish police was very proud of the of the arrest.

So they put IT up. They put IT up in twitter so that we just arrested this game up. So I I um quoted tweet and I said, great, send them would take care of him, right? So that was used in his court hearing in spain as a proof that he wouldn't get a portrayal here. So he was protected by spanish ed loss and he stayed there in spain.

Maybe they don't have enough gang members in spain.

exactly. So I mean, I don't care if they want to keep them. A mouth that we have to find is out of that we have to feed right. But um so they can keep him.

But the thing is that you would think, why would why would the spanish government want to g an extra guang number? Yes, it's not necessarily the out of evil is just that you know, the last, the system, the the things that are being fed to the, to the judge, to the prosecutor so they think that you know that my tweet was to mean and you know this guy member he's right to win, you know um not respected. You wanna get a first trial and so so he had to stay in spain to be protected I mean, no, I know is a clear.

They actually arrested him because of that. He was in international Operation. And everything they know is know he always murdered dozens of people, but they feel they need to protect them.

So what said about that is that that's a sign that your defense mechanism no longer works, yes, and that your society is dying, yes. In spain is a wonder. I my opinion .

station is reaching a point into its is this will start fAiling.

I think that's obvious to those of us with great sadness.

to those of us who live here. Unless things are done, of course, you, you, you.

So okay, to our question, why do you think that's happening? Because IT is recognized happening in real time before us. And what can be done at this point to reverse IT?

But you know everything everything error s in the grades. I mean, that's just a lot of major. Yes, I mean we do.

That's why we die, we age and we die. Yes, you can slow IT right? You can stay for IT die. Yeah you eventually got age and that you avoid that.

Um same happens with anything infrastructure you know I had an argument with begin of the government had an element with with my ministry of public works, my minister of public works, because there was a um there was this uh, neighborhood. There was built in an area that you shouldn't build things. So there a mount, they almost the soil was basically flower.

So yes, that the mountain was falling and the houses were fallowing with with the mountain. So to to seven people, the ministry of probably works have started building a huge wall to to stop the houses from calling, right? So they were building this huge wall.

And of course I can. I can't micromanage everything. So when I saw they were being built, I call my ministry said, what are you doing and you won't stop the mountain.

And I said, you should build, let's build houses for for the people somewhere else it's IT would be cheaper and say, no, no, the world will would be fine. We haven't engineers from new a international CoOperation and everything, they will be fine. So they finish the well.

They never think they didn't follow them very the the the way for that, the way for that lot list. But I was I was still angry because I thought that he was a huge ways of money and a lot of risk that if in the future that will falls, yes, it'll be on us because we have built IT right first. So I I started pressuring him, why do you build that? Well, do you build that? Well, that, while false, in the future, be now IT will be our for.

And I thought he grew tired of me as the pressure. He said, well, everything that is made by humans and needs maintenance. I mean, of course, if we just leave the wall there fall in ten to twenty thirty years, but if we get maintenance to the world, the world fall, right?

So so that that is talk to me, not because of the wall itself, but because everything is that that, yes, in their relationship, yes, it's at home. I mean, everything, I mean, you hair, your haircut, you know, you you need, if you want to maintain that, you need to spend time. And research is never maintaining.

So western civilities, because no civilization goes like this, yes. So western civilization reached the peak. I cannot point exactly where the peak is. Is like timing the market, right? Yeah, i'm going to buy in the bottom and i'm going to sell the top.

You nobody can do that, right? And so I don't know if I was the peak, but we can all agree they were in the declining. yes.

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So the that is happening because we're not maintaining we're not giving the correct mental maintenance of disabilities. why? What made the west the leader in the world at the time we're living right now? What would cause that to have lot of things like.

Importing the scientific process started, you know developing science, focusing you know putting a lot of money into art, into science, into trying to build the best things and that's faster and as best and as great as possible. And you know importing um wisdom and technology and trying to develop new technology and try to no but silly. Uh, when you get wealthy happens with families too.

Yes, he does. Then people probably get boiled or they get, you know, I want more things that I want that this you have to provide me that and you know politicians the problem, I mean democracy great, right? We the U.

S. Is proven the democracy may can work um but the problem with democrat everything has also counts. The problem with democracy is that politicians have a great incentive to offer a to give away the treasury.

yes.

So if I say, no, i'm gonna keep the treasury because we need might need for an emergency or something. Nobody would like that. People like, oh, i'm going to give away the treasury.

So they were both for him. And another problem, you you know what i'm going to give the treasury plus another treasury. So we got to go into that right? Everybody will say, great, that's receive more money from the treasury.

And when I say treasury, I mean, you know anything? No building stuff, you know, giving free stuff, sending checks to people, cove IT relief yeah I cycling. I'm getting, know the stimulus, whatever.

So but politicians are have the incentives of, you know, just giving away the treasury and entering huge amount of that. And that doesn't only destroys the the structure of the government, but he also destroyed the structure of society. Because if you give, for example, money, but if you don't work, i'll give you, I give you your money, right? Or if you.

If you can shop, lift one thousand dollars a day and still get some money from the government for food, no housing, would you work in that story? We shop lifted and probably get in trouble, right? So the incentives are wrong.

But it's not only because you know, there's maybe they are, but i'm not gonna to the sphere of years IT is not only because there are evil politicians, they are evil people planning everything, which might be the case, but I want to go into that. But just because things the incentives are wrong. yes.

So even IT Normal, not evil politician has the incentive to give away the treasury because he needs the votes. I mean, he needs to be elected. That's what he needs, right? He needs to both the nature, the system, yes, is the nature of the system.

So the problem is that democracy works. Nobody can say he doesn't because he worked in the united states, right? But if you don't maintain, if you don't give maintenance to the system, you will fall by the war. If you don't give maintenance to IT, because IT was the same system, will degrade itself. So what are you're having right now is a huge, uh, erosion of of western civilization.

So we have governments pander to to their basis, you know, to their ideology because they mobilize the boat or whatever, seek looking at what would happen in the election, what we can do to get more votes in the election. Um I don't anna get into U S. Politics because and I was not like, but well, so we have this we have this huge voter um group um let's give them something to get their vote.

We to give them, I know, a hundred thousand dollars each and make sense, right, to get their votes. But IT doesn't make sense for a country. I mean, why would you give a hundred thousand dollars to each member of a voting group? right? Should be illegal.

But it's not because who makes loss, right? Is government. So the the system is roding and uh and if maintenance is the maintenance team does not go in and fix all the things that have been no degrading the last and fifty seven years and IT will of course, you will eventually fall so if the .

west doesn't continue to maintain its systems, which you have said, I think incorrectly, have worked really well for couple hundred years, they will degrade just like anything else made by human hands if you don't make IT will fall like your house the questions, does anyone in the west, its leaders have the will to fix the system that is clearly fAiling. Do you think that will happen? And if IT doesn't, what is the message about democracy to the rest of the world?

But you know you know the the fun thing about about anything about any concept like democracy that IT works until he doesn't right that's right. IT happened with monarchies. IT happened with anything right? Um they say things like, oh you know know we have to separate religion from the state.

IT worked, really worked, but he also worked region with the state at their time. Yes, so very well. Yes, very well until they didn't. So so the the thing is that things work until they don't, right? So the problem is not democracy, I mean, is not the concept, democracy consent, democracy rate.

I mean, imagine how the power of the people, why would the people have the power to to decide their own things, is like the most. I mean, I really like the concept. And and this is not only a theoretical concept, communism, right? IT works.

I mean, democracy is improvement work. George washing could have been a king if you wanted to. Yes, good.

Been king George to the first, right? yes. But he decided IT.

Well, not he. But now the founding fathers decided that the U. S united will be a democracy, right? And he worked. Nobody can say that IT worked.

But so the fact the democracy appears not be working, I don't think, is because the concept doesn't work, like church separated from the state or church can joined with the state. Yes, it's just that things work until they don't. So the problem, I think, is not the concept of democracy itself, but the the state of the democracy of democracy is in the world right now.

Have we reached the end of the democratic?

Don't know, but maybe the beginning of the end, this if if, if a huge mean, instead income and fix things. It's like, I this is not about geopolitics or anything. I'm not gonna mention the countries, but I saw somebody shows me the six hundred meter a railway that was built in california. And he was like, I know, fifteen billion dollars something. I had to build the six hundred meter piece of a railway that they were building.

So a lot per meter, yes.

So I mean, you have you you can not go on. I mean, it's like obvious. It's like somebody eats too much, right? I mean, you can be a little fat, right? It's fine.

But then if someone is more Billy bad is many will commit OK you mean you have to stop, right? Because you know your heart, your heart can take IT anymore, right? You have to stop or somebody to drinks.

I I don't drink, but if body somebody drinks, doctor might say, no, your liver, liver can take that anymore. Look at luka liver or the longs for a smoke or whatever. We do see things like that.

Two hundred meters of railway, fifteen billion dollars, ten years. There's no other possible diagnosis. I me, you have to stop that past now because if not, it's that I mean, the the decline is inevitable, is inevitable.

He means ready. There is not like i'm telling you, I first see. No, no, I mean, I mean, it's there.

I mean, it's fifteen billion dollars to make six hundred many piece of rail is not even working in ten years. The empire state was built in a year. One year they build empire state that that things we're working, right?

I don't know how were things back then? I don't know. But they build the empire state one year.

What happened with the world trade center freedom tower that was changed, named that later to world lary center? How long are they to take forever? yeah.

And he was no. The whole country united to build IT. There was no bug. Tary, I mean, I know was probably IT was no if if he needed by getty IT was not a problem of budget or investors willing to pour money on IT or engineers.

I mean, why would you take over a decade to build something that was so significant for the whole country? You can build the, tell us, building in the world. You didn't you get to build the toilets building in the world and said, okay, we're coming back bigger and stronger.

We're onna build, you know, yeah, we got ahead, but now we're gna build back Better and stronger, be Better and stronger right or whatever, and build no to mile high sky script. I'm not i'm not a fan of no to mile high skyscraper. You know you done that and you have you have the money of the resources.

You have the engineers, you have the the market because if I built a miles skyscraper, I can feel with offices because I don't have enough market to feel residences and officers were you do have the market in the art too yeah, to build offices and you want hotel rooms. I mean, you feel like this, but you didn't. You took over a decade to build A A very unsuppressed ve building. So and that was to twenty three years ago.

Yes.

now you're building six hundred meter railways with fifteen billion dollars. So how long we will take to build, to rebuild about the more bridge SHE? Take a ear.

How long would you .

take here? here? Yeah, air, two years. And there are some small, poor country.

And where is the one of the poorest nations in in the world? right? That's why this .

is so shameful and interesting.

But what I mean, the U S S. They have is still unlimited amounts of resources because you can just bring money, right? That's another topic.

But you can just bring what about how much is what that mean, what you want to do IT. But we want to build a matter for gold. I mean, you can do anything, right? You just how much does that do IT?

So that something like a systemic .

failure doesn't .

sound like it's a systemic failure. But so what you're describing maybe can be, you know maybe that's something that you will have to level and rebuild or something maybe that's beyond maintenance. I don't know what is the answer to that.

I don't know, but but you need leadership. But I will tell you something, if you see the mess that we were living here.

yes.

it's a bigger mess that what you have over there yeah so.

oh yeah.

I mean, so, well, just the fact that a third of our population fled the country. I know I went to the united states, I know, uh, gives you an example that the mess we were living here and that we still have in other areas, not safety with the same first country, the western hemmy thia, but we have problems in other areas, the economy, for example. Yeah, so, but our problems were bigger than your problems in relative sizes.

So you say, so you can, if you can, I mean if you can fix a math like this with in the U S with a limited amount of wealth with um sciences innovation like no other country there were still the innovation coming from the U S. Is more than any other country still right? Even not because of the government, but you know is still has best innovators.

A I for sure, I mean anything. So you still have the best innovators. You still have the biggest companies. You still have the biggest the world reserve currency, the biggest wealth, the biggest GDP. 嗯。

The the availability to hire a talent for anywhere you can bring whatever talent you need to fix any gaps you can hear. Big, big, can I? You get you, you get when you what you want.

You still can get what you want. You can't get attacked because you're you're too far away. You are too far away from anyone that wants to attack you because mexico or canada are not going to attack the U.

S. So your enemy are too far away. And you still have the biggest, stormy, maybe some forces. So biggest .

strategy .

reserves yes. Yeah in the us like like russia, they were built a super powers. So it's not like, uh, for example, if you see the economy, the economy in spain is very good. Robust economy is big. You seven yeah but they are like, uh, how you call how you have seen an english to run no, get they sell nugget right? Yeah or they sell I very calm yeah so it's very good, expensive, but you are actually need that.

right?

So luxury goods, luxury goods. So if you sanctions spain, you you'll break the economy. But if you sanctions russia, you can't break russia, because they are a built as a super power.

yes. So they have, wait, they have energy. They have a natural gas oil, yes, because they were .

built like that industry capacity.

industrial factories in the workers. So the U. S is is like that too. I was built as a super power.

So you have weed, you have corn, you have workers, you have blue color workers, you have trained, skilled factory workers, you have 呃 colleges， you have universities, you have a school system, you have infrastructure, you have a cities, tourism, the mississippi river. I mean, you have everything, you have ships, you warehouses, agriculture, fertile lands. Do you didn't have before you? You got right.

You took from mexico, whatever. So, U. S. Was was built to be a superpower, right? Acquire land, acquire fertile land.

acquire. I mean, texas was part of mexico, but this part of the U. S.

And you have all the oil there. So I mean, and then you have california. And I mean the U.

S. Is built as a super power. So the U. S. Is everything to go on for a thousand years? It's not like because it's doomed to fail.

But apparently the leaders are most of them that you have probably very good leaders with most of the leaders they don't there in the team. They either they are evil or this is not conspiracy. Here is just know the options you have and they're evil and they wanted destroy the U.

S. Because of some evil reason, or they are puppets and they are being handled, these people that need the us. To be destroyed.

But for some reason are they incompetent and they just know doing wrong stuff because they're not capable of doing the right or, sorry, I tried the incentives right? Mean changing a country and changing a lot of things that are badly done probably, and will be anger. Some people write, some groups, some lobbies, some interests.

I mean, if you say, okay, we going to stop the railway that's costing a fifty billion dollars per six hundred years, a lot of companies will be angry. A lot of, you know, I don't know mayors. You have a system that that that needs to be, needs to be handled.

So and I need leadership and I need a little a clear Mandate that is probably a little hard to get in the U. S. Because you know the opposite views and know the big part in ship. But but you need to do well know ultimately.

as you well know, since you've succeeded in IT, so so thumbing ly, the instrument for all of that is the ballot, is the election itself, how many votes to get that remanded? But I think there is a sense among a lot of non conspiracy and voters, the united states, that part of the system is itself corrupt, yes. And that IT is actually hard to affect change through voting because IT is IT.

It's right. On junior here guys, are you receiving letters from the IOS claiming you go back taxes as penalties and interest fees piled up? The IOS gives, you know, clear path to resolution.

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com. That's one eight hundred seven eight zero eight eight eight eight. You with that in mind, do you think trump he's head in the polls? Do you think he can get elected?

Well, yes is yes. He can get another thing. I'll give you an example.

We in two thousand and nineteen, the system was told over the ride. I mean, they cancel our our party. I mean, we were running with a party and they cancel IT.

I mean, they are know our party. So I stayed. I was party less. So I we went to a small party and said, you don't have any candidates. You're very small.

Do you want to win the election? So we we got the, the, the that party registration and they cancel that party. And you can saw that party in the last day that you can, uh, file the candidates.

So we got a medium size party at eleven pm, and we we were able to file our ganders y so IT wasn't not like IT was easy or that the system wasn't really there was just so fair that we just know we put IT up our our proposals and the people just vote IT. IT was very hard to win. And then when we won, we since we even didn't have a simple multi ese parliamentary elections, we actually went to the execute of branch, totally opposed to the to the legislative branch and and the judicial branch.

So they control the supreme court, and they control ninety percent of the legislative body. So I had to beat to everything, and they override my beats, and they enact, they approved, over seven laws that I beat you. yes.

And everything that we do should be important, constitutional and constitutional on constitutional. And so we went to, the people said, no, we cannot work like this. We need a majority in congress. We need a huge majority in congress because we know not only need to approve, we need to you get out well, these people out.

And the only way you getting out democratically and respecting the rules of the system is that if we get a huge, immense majority congress, right? Because congress can fire anybody, even the present, yes. So people gave us the huge majority and was hard because they controlled, they still controlled the electoral ata bono as of today. That's why our election was recognized by all the countries in the world because they know the electoral communal control of the opposition. Still.

it's the only .

thing that is the thing I know that days in the judicious everything else so the but the thing is that in two thousand and twenty one when we went to when we went to uh, congressional elections, we Carried a supermajority that they say they say that was impossible because the system was designed so you cannot get a supermajority. But we got we got with more than that, and then we with that supreme majority.

There are some articles because the constitution that allows the supermajority in congress to fire the supreme court justices. So our party fire the supreme court justices. When they got them, they got the majority, the fire, the authority general, which I couldn't mean.

The states president appoints the attorney general. Here is congress, congress, the exit and congress. But you need two thirds of congress to fire in the tourney general. So we got seventy five percent .

of congress.

The rules we have never not respect that a single rule that's that's also a narrative that they want to be. They not point out a single thing that was done by not respecting the the rules that were writing by them because the rules are writing by people. There is not like all these rules were, you know, this was something that given by god. This also were writing by people. But still we respect that all the rules they were written by them and and yeah we got a the the I I just I just saw an interview the president of coastal gave in costa because he came also, like many other all year.

He came to the to the innovation so they ask him over their inquires dy, and they said, but do you think that is doing things that are are not a within the constitutional limits that that he has? And this is this in the rule today earlier and president of the rica said, well, in a in in a socket game or in football game, you have the rules and have the score, right? And the rules are made, so the score will be like that.

But sometimes you get a super score in one side, right? So are you angry at the rules or are you angry the score? Because the president of the suber, the only thing he can be um criticized for is to getting a huge score in this favor with the rules of the game that they lay out lay out for him so yes.

but IT was enormously disruptive to the people who ran the country before you.

Obviously via did you .

ever worry they were trying to put you in jail?

What they they even even when was president? I mean, even I already in being already in in in the president's, they try to to impeach me. They say I wasn't there's article in the constitution that said congress can actually fire the present if he's not to need so they say that I I wasn't fit to lead and and they were they try to in pitch me because but was such A I mean, that people were like they fear that the people were like, no.

So what .

is this against .

it's a fair concern majority. What advice .

would you give .

to another former democratic elected leader seeking office who is facing jail time?

Uh, let anyone .

just if there I mean I mean.

I mean if if there was, uh, a way to stop the candidate y then he's he's probably true. But if there's no, there's no way to stopping from competing in the election. All the things that they do to him was just give him our votes, right?

That seems to be happening.

yes. I mean, either you stop the candidate y or you you let him be, but just, you know, hating him with you, just get him you making the greatest campaign ever. I mean.

do you think they .

know that some of them they should they yeah, I think some of them do a bit, of course, that that wants they don't. Do they think that there's there a problem with endurance mous groups, right? Because they all know.

Yeah, so it's so great. Yeah i'd do IT and you know there they're making a huge mistake. You choose me that he would choose me .

that if you're a country like ourself or really any other country in the hemisphere, including canada in your eyes around the next states because it's the dominant power yes obviously um but IT puts you a weird position if you're being criticized for this. So there's a congressman for mac proc congressman called juma garn literally to communist how to attacked this observation who attacked you the other day for daring to move a painting of Oscar mars, a cathode priest who has murdered here more than forty years ago, in your airport. I think.

yes.

what did you make of that? Simply like a pretty manual criticism and revenue.

And they actually moved IT to a nicer place in front. It's not like we moved IT from a very nice place and we put IT in some warehouse or whatever, some place, the country no, of course, of course. But you can make the cases in art that he didn't like, you know the place with with the painting with the fact that he that he protested or he expressed his concern with deep concern and twitter and not, you know, call, if you could have called here and said, aid, you move the painting.

No, no is right here a congressman? Uh, so of course he can can in common and he from myself, but of course he was doing an attack, right so beauty backfired because um first of the painting was right in front so yeah I just to move the camera I was in the other side. So was he he misfired.

But also the fact that A U S. Congresswomen is trying to micro manage where art is being displayed, is being displayed in another country. Ah just now gives you an example of how out of touch they .

are feels like colonial .

to be a little bit yes yes. And IT comes from democratic party yes yeah but you know, at the end is like you sometimes, sometimes the guy is called racist. This is not really the racist, but though the guy that is called, you know, colonist is not really the colonists, sometimes it's, we are how narratives work. Sometimes.

are you getting a lot of .

americans moving here? Yes, yes. I mean, probably in numbers IT. IT won't significant to you. But the yes, we you can see IT, I mean, you can see IT everywhere.

And we're also getting something that's that's very meaningful to us is that we're getting a lot of our the aspire and of immigrant, the the people that immigrate or subway because of the war, because of the gangs or because of the economic um issues that they have always happened here there a lot of them are coming back and there's a study made that the I O M N U S A I D I send you link. Yes, there's a study made by the I O M and the U S A I D. This has the six, sixty two percent of self athalia living in the united states want to come back to live here.

Sixty two percent and eighteen percent already making plans to come that over half a million, seven other is coming back. So that's super significant because, I mean, we expelled we except them from their their homes, right? Because of crime, because of the war, because of lack of opportunities and the fact that they are coming back is, I mean, is is the is the biggest proof that we're doing things are widely, we have a long way to go, but we are doing things are right away. So after so, we have a lot of americans, american born and americans coming, but we have also a lot of american americans with american relationships coming here.

Do you have the space?

Well, he has creative housing bubble because, you know, we don't produce as much houses are being being bought right now. But that would create a temporary problem, which is the housing bubble, but then which is not actually bubble, is just know the offer and yes.

finding.

So now of course, construction companies know that the the amount of house they will build, they will, they will, they will sell them. So construction has a become twenty percent of the G D P, and is growing. So this going to be a huge construction boom.

And they have the clients. So is not built in a bubble of speculation. But IT IT feels like above, but it's built. And you know people coming back home.

Has any other head of state called you for your advice on how to improve this country? Yes.

yes, yes. yes. yeah. several. Some of them have said in public, of course, and they have we have a meetings, most of security issues we're talking with a lot of that in america. These they have come, they have sent their security ministers to meet here with our security ministers.

They have, uh, send people to see our jail jail system because sometimes people see are a jail system and they try to compare to the the united states to jail system and see all over they mean they don't have. James, then I have net lix you know bit. But you shouldn't compare a solid E L system with the U S E O system. You should compare a subverters jail system with that in american jail systems. So if you go and see most of that in american countries.

that jails are around by the the gare.

I remember red, they were, they party's, prostitutes, strippers.

autonomous here. I mean, you to get the permission to go, you have to get .

the permission to go in. They are only have permission to get in food medicine, but they control the, they control the jay, not only in the most of the light in american countries. So gangsters or arks, they will control the jail right Operation that they need to go out and back and get.

yes. So they we totally control that and we have one hundred percent control in the were jail system, so that in american countries look to our um jail system in to see if they can be can fix her their own. So we we do a lot of CoOperation and security issues and jail jail the army um training do even more .

powerful than .

bigger countries, of course.

Have you ever I head mistake you have you ever met ahead of state who went faced with A A serious problem with a threat to his own country, would in the middle of a cabinet meeting pause and say prayer.

No, I don't recall. But yeah, probably.

Do you know anyone who would do that?

Do you think? Yes, probably. I don't. I don't recall right now.

but I know. But that is so far from the mindset of any leader i've ever interviewed. Anyone who would admit i'm not sure what to do, let's ask god.

Yeah, probably, probably not that common video I would get some, some leaders do. IT.

How long do you plan to stay president?

Yeah, five years. Five years. That as as much as the constitution allows .

me to thank you for talking us. Thank you. Thank thanks for listening tucker cross and show. If you enjoy IT IT, you can go to tucker across and not calm to see everything that we have made the complete library talker carlson dot com.