412: ‘His Most Pro Shirt’, With Dan Moren
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Big week yeah .

how I assume you're referred to the fact that you managed to stay alive for one more world serious game. I assume that to the .

relevant by by the time the episodes out that that'll either be .

you will be dramatic well.

be funny one way or the other yeah.

that's right. I got I know a little something about coming back from a four year, dear, a three year deficit. So hey.

can be done. IT can be done. I I will say this, I as we record IT is after game four, before game five, which will be tonight.

The anchises were down three games to none against dodgers. They won last night. The most amazing that, and I would have thought i'd know this by now.

But guess a lifelong baseball. But they said they're been twenty four world series that a team jumped out three to nothing. And in two, in .

twenty one .

of them, the team that was up three, nothing went on the sweep. And in the other three, they were all over in game five.

Never been come back from more than .

that yeah so not only not only has no team down three games to none come back to win, which is only happen once in the you know champion series and national american, as you forget know, two thousand and four, the red socks versus the hankies. So it's never happened in the world series that IT teamed down three years and none has come back to win. But they've not only also never forced ed, the game seven, also never forced the game six, and also only three out of the twenty four times even forced the game five that were seen tonight, which is that kind .

of it's tough to come back.

Well, I think IT just speaks to how tRicky baseball is that if one team goes up for nothing, that they tend to have momentum, something in it's just weird. It's very anyway enough baseball talking and a big fingers cross. Ah now we are talking about apples week of mac and a new format definitely unprecedented, right?

I think this is kind of faster. I mean, last year they did that halloween event right where IT was at night. And I kind of want a part of me if they think that there's just an opportunity here. W W C is so set at this point. And so is, I think, the iphone event right in terms of how they're presented.

And I think apple is definitely still trying to experiment a little bit and see are there other things we could be doing, other other ways we could be doing this? And is that Better? And the mac especially? No offense, unite both love the mac, a longtime make, but it's low stakes, right?

The people who know are they are interested are going to show up one way or the other. You don't need to have an event. You don't need to bring people .

out necessary yeah perhaps a Better way to put IT is that it's low stakes, greater mass market media was right. Like I think I think if anything, I mean and it's a total I mean, it's could totally make the podcast o sideways. I know that try not to, but I think I mean, obviously the iphone is the most important product that makes nobody whether you're mean dan morn and were professional apple media writers or you're you write for the business page, you wall weet journal or something, you know and you're looking at apple stock, it's a iphone. I think internally, apple cares more about the mac .

than the ipad yeah I mean, i'm not sure that's untrue externally either. I mean, the ipad feels like sometimes the forgotten middle sibling right squashed in between the iphone and the mac and IT does fine. Their businesses are about the same size.

Ipad in the mac businesses are fly, right?

Yeah, but I think they are right that there is maybe more of A A passion for the mac, especially because so many of those people are obviously mac users who go back decades, right? I got jazz in there and people who seem to care about the mac.

Well, I D, I honestly, at this point, I say apples almost their entire leadership with exceptions being like CFO or even tim cook, who you know didn't come to the company as a mac user, he came as executive from compact company.

But you know the jazz, the turn is the federal, is they all work at apple because of the mac, right? That their formative years using computers, and what do they want to do with their life was, I want to go work the company that makes the cinder sh. So I think there's nosti a, but also is the fact that, that is not the middle child, right? That IT is the platform that makes the platforms you still need IT.

right? It's still like you said, it's the one if you're developing for I O S or ipad or whatever.

you're still using a mac these days, right? It's the ipad that sort of lost in the middle conceptual. You know that it's sort of like, you know you can do stuff like, you know use IT as a laptop and do all your work on IT.

And IT has a bigger spring, but you know debatable, we could, but I think but I also think the I think that the people who love the ipad the most, the federigo's of the world, would be the ones who would argue the most strange ously that yes, apple doesn't pay enough tension to the ipad and ipad. O S, right? Like I don't agree with them.

I know they got get pushed back. And I feel like if there's any push back, IT would be from my fellow. My favorite apple platform is the mac people like me, and I think a lot of them we are listening to us right now screaming at their podcast player abbot is read of a digit to the back care about is .

the last time they did. X yes, yeah, I know. But I mean, I like you said, is a big week. They did a lot of stuff.

And even if IT wasn't all surprising, IT does feel like maybe in some ways, the attempt to do stuff day by day is a greater show of affection. Like we are going to give you the whole week, right? Are going to.

So many of these things might have been buried in a press released if they just put out like two or three Price releases. One of these things would be a footnote. The IMAX maybe right like that have much change like ough, but we've seen them do that before.

We've them make announcements. And then, oh, by the way, we also have dated the mac many, but you can have to go the website read about that. So nothing got real short shift. I feel like that's kind of A A testament to their their love of this platform.

So and and it's like I said, if just you know not even arguing about ipad versus mac, what do they care about more? But there is that no ipads cost less per unit and appeal to more people because they're more mass market. And so you know just looking at the numbers, IT is you know the businesses are about the same size, but they sell way more ipad, but you know unit than by unit count than I self.

It's more the mac is more than niche, right? And so I think it's a truck, yeah. But I think like you said, that gives them a little more attitude to play with how they present IT. You like, do the goofy halloween thing like last year, or do this. You, hey, what if we instead of do one forty, I guess if you added a, my lap would be like a forty, forty five minute.

little minute. Think about IT. Because how much was apple intelligence presentation all three times? They get to hit that nail three times too, which is not nothing.

What was her named? Like a tepper gor?

The poor legal having to do that three times in three different outfits. Surely on my back to back to back, I would be very sick of everything at that point.

Yes, we can to outfits. I saw Turners. He had different t shirts for each of the three days. I forget, like a light blue than a maron yesterday. And then today is which I read into criminality.

Let's break IT down. What do they signify here .

today was the great, the dark grade t shirt, which I think space right, which is more of standard keynote, a tire. So I feel like IT IT suggests that he cares the most about the the MC books is the most proshka .

he has yeah it's the .

most proshka that he has. Somebody pointed out, did you see this that of course, they were all wearing apple watches, but there's a couple shots of turn is where you can see here. He had the black apple .

watch ah ultra .

with a digital face and IT was always at ten o nine. So that and I I guess I I think I was unmasked on or somebody pointed this out and I said maybe you apple thinks about stuff like t that. So maybe ever said, you know, for years now in this new modern, prerecorded keynote thing that we've always had, the presenters use some sort of internal build, here's your watch and is running some sort of internal build words always ten or nine that's wild.

But IT is, IT is. So apple like to think they don't even want you to know what time they recorded this, right? right? Like they want the illusion that IT just is a moment fixed in time, right outside of time or something. I think, right. The iphone always one or two.

yeah, wrong. Like very early on.

there was one that's a one minute different for some reason.

Yeah yeah, it's nine forty one. And I forget the .

back story on that in the presentation. I think IT shown right or very Steve moment, right.

Their estimate from the rehearsals was like whit, our estimate is a private beer around nine. yes. And I think that because micro expose started at nine, which an interesting you know apples usually started ten years when they you know, it's so fully to think that they announced that that somebody else is conference, but did but it's interesting too because this was I forget which face IT is, but it's A A digital face.

So you see the numbers and ten line is considered. If you ever look at watch ads and magazines or whatever, for an analogue watch hand, it's considered the most at this point. It's just sort of like everybody just sets the watch to ten o nine to take the picture.

The promotion of the year was good .

and IT doesn't sure if you've got a date complication at three o'clock IT won't cover IT IT IT looks in theory you like that the hands or would be at the same angle, is something a creation, something equivalent to like seven twenty one or seven nineteen or something. But if you did seven twenty instead of four ten, you get more of the upside down like a frown and snow. So looks a little .

more depressing. I, yes.

right? It's give you for those who don't pay attention to watches at all. Once you know this and you start, you ever see a like as we had into the is your paging through whatever magazine jury. If there's ads for watches, they're almost all set to ten or nine, but that's anal digital, right? I don't really think that applies.

We like to be the numbers. Look, I don't know for A D but .

maybe you maybe the way IT works with this secret internal build for presenter mode for apple watch that it's not that it's like a screen shot that shows up as the watch face, but that is a build of watch O S that doesn't move. That sets the time, keeps the time you could change to any watch face you want in its ten O I assume .

so othe wise like I won't nothing else with the animator work. So yeah so the .

other thing you can see is on, I think this started last year when they really regional red watch O S when watch us ten. So this year is watch of us eleven. But when you switch watch faces, so you long press on your current watch face and go into the mode where you can go sideways between all the faces you've configured, all of the watch faces go to ten or nine thirty .

ty seconds metro. You get that nice. It's almost like it's an equatorial.

I O T. I actually think it's sort, I think they did IT deliberately so that as you're swapping, they show you an ideal time. But prior to watch us, ten IT would show them in lie in the current time, right? This was a deliberate choice apple made that when you switch, but know they do the nice thing where the hands actually animate to get there as you go back and forth, they don't just snap the animate. So my guess is, is that they have an internal build of watch s where the time is stuck at ten to nine thirty. And then whichever watch face you use, it's stuck there and then you can, you know, and then you remove the continued here because god knows, right, nobody would pay attention to the actual announcement if .

that there the prude in john turn is watch to find out, well, I was shot out of order.

alright. But I do I do think I think the other option would be, and I think this is, i'm guessing, last year's halloween scary fast, I think was the name of the thing was probably like forty minutes. And here is all of our announcements at once.

I think this is Better. I like degree. yeah. Well.

I mean, IT IT gives each announcement a day to itself, right? If we announce them all I want, I think you you have a lot of people talking about the mini, but you probably ouldn't have as much discussion about either the pro or the imac despite the fact that the macro pro is a more important product to them. Probably say more minor up.

So people are in and talk about that. People are excited by the minimum factor. So this way, they get they get the whole news cycle right. And tomorrow, as we record this, they are going to do their earnings. So we'll get a full week out of all of this and like full days out of all the discourse, which I think is great.

I also think I suspect that there was zero debate internally about what order to announce the products because I was, like most consumers, imac than mac mini, which has more pro use cases. Is is there and this is I you think i'd know this from notes. Is there an imac with the m for prose? There's never been approvers.

and I believe it's always just the base chip.

right? So IT escalate performance was right?

yes. So I do m4 pro and entire the mac right now。

So I I can't imagine that anybody inside apple suggested putting them in any other order than the one that they did. And if they had done at all in one forty minute prerecorded event, they still would have announced him in the same order, right?

Yeah I won't been interesting too because today I noticed in the press release they put out they were like, oh, are introducing the m four pro, the m four max. And we talked about the .

pre yesterday yeah the downside of this, in addition to poor allegra who had had to do this pretty much the same thing three times in three outfits and three locations, they had to repeat some of the technical information too. So that's why i'm kind of about how long doing what is a single thing would have taken and maybe would have been more like thirty minutes instead of forty. But I I like IT.

I think it's and I think that part of IT too is that they know that there are some people who are only interested in one of them, especially the mac mini and or the mac book pro, right? And so if you really know you're thinking I might get a new macbook pro this year. You maybe didn't pay attention on monday, tuesday and you only tuned in today. And so you needed to learn all about the mac, the m four pro chip because you didn't watch yesterday.

right? Not everybody is us watching every single right going.

come on, come on.

来 上， get to IT, get to IT. yeah.

What else? I guess we could go in order. Maybe I should start, though and take a break right here and take our first sponsor are good friends at work O S.

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No special code after the world. Just go there to find out more. My thanks to work with us. Yeah, I guess we'll take them in order. I mean, sure, I don't know.

Can't can't say the good enough for apples, enough for us.

uh, the IMAX. So that I guess the weird question is, why did the IMAX skip the m two? Like m three was a weird year, right? And everybody was talking about how tmm c three and enemy to process the problem, expensive. And there was the weird thing where of all the products, the iphone sixteen not pro didn't get a new chip because of this thing with the process, but yet the imac skip the m two, which seem like a Normal year, but got the m three and now gets the m4 again。

Yeah I mean, I think there was a time where they figured people are not upgrading the imac very often. IT doesn't change very often and maybe there's not a lot to change in the m two year and maybe and all there's matter chip production or whatever, they just didn't have enough and decided they're not going to do a whole I mac update.

But yeah, retrospect IT is strange and is weird offset timing because I think going into apple silicon t especially, they didn't really know what are. We gonna have every product every year. Are we taken an iphone schedule where we do them every time and we do the entire product line? And IT seems like theyve ended up with not quite being sure.

I mean, there was also no in my wrong. And remember ing, there was no m three ultra, right? IT was just the pro max.

right? So there was no studio update last year. No max pro pro, right? So they've .

never hit one where they've read since the one line. They have not read the entire online. And maybe this is the time three years in and .

but even the m one didn't have a mac pro.

right? Yeah, that's true, right.

So there is still the the m four could be the first of the first year or first cycle, you know seems like they're very clearly annual, let's say year, year where they do the whole lineup.

they do the whole time and they are ready, maybe after four years of having sort of figured out out what everything looks like and how they can stagger them because that's the other chAllenge, right? Like they don't turn off all over the same time, right? We saw three, three products get turn over now, but no air because the macbook air was read to three not that long ago, which itself came not that long after the m two air.

So I think it's some of IT. Is them getting their production lines kind of to a point where they are ready to just hit those targets every year and get into that roof? Because I mean, as with the m one like IT took a wild to ramp up and took a while which products we can put this in IT took a wild side if they are redoing products.

The the imac was the only one that got really substantially redone at that point because I have an anyone air still in IT looks exactly like the intel. Or that came before IT setting inside the the studio, which was an entirely new line. But mostly the one stuff was pretty much less just swap the chips in and leave everything the same with the exception of the IMAX. So the IMAX, is that a weird staggered sort schedule?

Yeah and I yeah I I think it's basically in again, this is the sort of thing that you don't even hear from people at apple off the record much. I mean, maybe you know and again, without any kind of in person component like there's far as I know, no brief I just definitely know briefings in new york. You know i'm here at home talking to you today, not new.

I'm been in new york and I don't think there's any in california. I think that you know you know over the internet, but apple doesn't explain such things. But I kind of think that what you just said is exactly that, that they kind of just needed you OK.

We're gna switch this whole platform to our own silicon. We're going to have this whole road map of regular and number, then the pro, then a max than an ultra. Who knows? Maybe, you know even something after the ultra? Probably not.

But you know, well, hopefully instead the ultra will just scale even further than they used to you. In theory, there could be an m for extremement inside the mac prose, but that is just takes a while to sort of get their sea legs under them in like, okay, now it's it's like the iphone annual every single year. Here we come.

And that you know in those first few years, there were just we don't have time to do the imac m two. We don't we don't have you know we don't have the ability with the to ultra to match the rain. The incredibly IT was I was was like one point five terribles of very until one night out.

We're not going get there, but we should ship this anyway because. You know we want to let everybody know we're doing apple silicon on the mac pro and the mac prose. Not dead, even though this doesn't scale up as far as as I used to and I just ended you know that some of the products came out at weird times in hindsight, but IT seems like they're aiming for an annual schedule.

yeah. I mean, I think part of IT, I went actually an article in MC world this week that was kind of about this. Like when you think about why apple is doing things the way that is, you cannot I think the fundamental thing, you can never ignore this scale because there are so huge, there are so many moving part and there are so many like just units that has to be made, especially when you're talking about phones.

But even so with the mac, you mean you're talking about so many chips they have to turn out and so many products lines they have to turn over that as big as they are and as much money and researchers as they have, they are not in a position to simply be like, let's just let's put out six new models of computer right now, all with new chips, all using the same like RAM, the same sst. right? There is limit.

There are limits at that scale to how much and how fast you can do IT. I mean, it's the old turning a battle ship metaphor, right? Like if they just cannot react usually enough because they are not the apple of twenty five years ago, they are the apple today that sells millions upon millions of devices.

right? And you know and I guess some stuff is still odd. You know like you know the m four day build in in the ipad just months after you not even close. I only like six months .

after the m appeared.

Um so who knows maybe it'll never quite be regular, but IT does. And again, just to go back to IT. You know, if apple cares more about the mac and the ipad, IT does seem like the mac.

I think I feel like the ideal schedule is annual, that they are just sort of be like you can now count on the macbook pro lineup getting updated around halloween. And may is not even just like the month. It's almost the day two years in a row.

It's as regular as second monday or tuesday of september for the iphone. I think that's great for planning, you know. And IT seems like for mac books.

I think which are things that feel like they will no matter what IT feels like, the air the macbook are, the micro pro will change every time. I'm not sure that's true with the desktop. I mean, we're see like you said, we've seen this go a couple of different ways.

And if if the mac is you know a niche product within apple and even if they care about but IT sells, weigh your units, desktops are way smaller portion of that. I mean, most, most max laptops. And we're talking about the fact that they they sell they sell four guest top computers, which is a lot that is a lot for a fraction of a fraction of your product line.

Well, it's a lot from us who observe apple and and if you looked at dell and so and I have four days top computers, they would be like, what what are we going out?

This is that's all what's all we do.

right? You all we do is confuse our customers with twenty different products to choose from.

I guess I don't know, but I just think like you know and going doing an m three last year and now in m four for the imac, I just kind of get the sense that what they would like to do is keep the chips on an annual twelve month cycle and update you speed bump, the you know classic speed bump updates without major do major industrial design changes every four years or so. But in between do regular predictable speed bum update. They've never done that. I mean, in the forty year history of the map that it's never .

been predictable.

And you right yeah, there have been times where had been close to annual and then, you know, especially in the twenty tens, IT got really irregular for certain products. I mean, and the most conspicuous, the macbook air p retina, the p retina macbook air tag IT was a their most popular mac. IT still is the most popular mac.

Probably always will be for the foreseeable future. And yet was completely stagg native hardware wise, which is bananas. But and that something off the record i've been told is just all about their contentious relationship with intel, right? Not not that they don't get along, but that intel had a road map that did not alive with what apple was interested in doing to improve the macbook air at all. And what are we going to .

do yeah and they had no choice. And I think it's it's i'm sure, a major factor in the decision to move the mac to apple soichi in the long term was it's apple. Apple likes to control everything that's important to IT that comes out of its history. But yeah, you can't something as central as your processors. If you if you don't have control over that, then you you will never have the ability to say let's turn over the product in or let's do this improvement.

Apple intelligence, right? Like not only from a like a standpoint of the technology needed to deliver that, but in terms of logistically being able to get your products in a lying to the point where they all support IT, think about them trying to do that on intel. IT would have been years between some of these.

right? That would have been wild. Yes, especially, you know, if the'd found out that the equivalent of a neural engine on x ty six architecture was just not what they needed, know that they were, whatever never hardwork would have had .

to make nice with a video, right? Mean there. 对， 那 我自己 背 happening。

Yeah, I don't. So it's but I do think that this regular schedule, really, they've never been there with the mac before. And again, just to go back to that, do they care more about the mac and the ipad? The iad could have been on an annual schedule and still never has been right.

It's always a little odd. You never know if it's a follower spring thing and sometimes it's both and sometimes it's neither.

right? And you end up with these products like the mac mini or ipad mini, which just did get updated. But is if anything is almost predictable, that is going to be you know like three years, I don't know, maybe if you're lucky otherwise for you know and you just get these long gaps and even the obscure, you know, mac pro is different because I think they but I think once they get their ship together on the m serious chips, that the mac pros gona see annual updates too. You know.

the macro fascinates me as a as a product. And and it's just because I I just I have no conception of how big the market for that really is because I see people who previously might have been death top Terry users going to sometimes mac propose, sometimes mac studios, sometimes even mac mini. And it's hard to argue that there is a markedly Better experience in the mac pro unless you really need that internal storage.

And I mean, really right, the premium you are paying is huge and there's honestly not that much stuff that the internal storage is really used forward these days. You have to be doing very specialized work to be able to get some components that work with that. So I I think they like IT there as a flagship, as a as a like line in the sand of we can do a prototype like we can scale all the way from that macbook air up to a pro tower. But I just don't I wonder if there IT is something that we will see updates regularly or whether IT will continue to be the well will get to IT, we get to IT and maybe every every few years, you see a new one.

I just think they'll get to a point where there's you know very, very seldom industrial design changes and just the silicon team wants to push ahead. And there are benefits, even the internal just internal to apple to having the altera chips for their own work that, that they'll keep making IT.

I'll say this is an aside then changing the mac mini, which will get to, I guess, shortly, but then changing them at the mini form factor be obviously in response to what apple silicon provides terminally versus intel architecture. I kinda makes me think that when we do see that, I I don't know that you're going to do a mac pro this spring, but i'd be very surprised if they don't if they're going to update the the hardware to a different size, which I think could be a lot smaller. I think this will will be the year, I think that, that m two mac pro was a real stop gap. Just to say we you know, we can either ship this and have a apple silicon mac pro or we're going to have to wait until the spring of twenty twenty five. They knew the road nap then right and in between, their people are going to think we gave up on IT and people who insist on having a quote on quote mac pro on the desk to be stuck on.

It's very analogous to the first generation of most of the apple silicon max two, again, where they just swapped out the internals in the existing design right is an element of expediency to IT as like.

And that what exactly .

is what else about the IMAX.

the colors I like, the new colors. honestly.

Like, I thought that the first round, we're great. The one I max, I love that there is still a computer with color. And I about this time, even though the tweet are kind of subtle, I love that Green, honestly.

Irr, yeah, was blue. I I like IT, but this one is no question. IT is Green. The pink one two the first one looks more the one's pink is topic. I was a to look at that and see IT was pink because IT looks red yeah just it's much for saturday and they're like, well.

I guess we'll you pink this time that's what my son texted me and said, you man, because he likes red, he doesn't even want to imac, but is just reds of favor. Color ies. I got a man, they got read, read for pink. And I, like the old one, was called pink and his I wet but if you look at the back .

of IT IT is hard, is very red .

yeah but and I but the way there, you know and they're still doing the same thing where they're still a White bezzle around every display and the chin on each one is a very, very pale, very whatever color is and that they're saying that is to avoid visual distraction. And I guess it's the reason they don't make colorful mac books.

Yeah, I guess I mean, I suppose could if they felt like people like they would sell a lot of them, I think I think let's say they made a .

like A I guess theyve dropped the whole product red thing. But let's just say they made red would be the modest color, right, like a true of red macbook IT would just be the base that you see because the display is bezel only, right? So I don't know. I really feel I feel like they're leaving money on the table because I feel like there are so many people who love colors and would want like a very pink or very Green macbook like like the backs of .

these IMAX just .

use the same god damn, just don't even take up in the apple.

Relationship with color these days is very weird and very contentious. I was when those people who thought about going to just the straight iphone sixteen just because they looked so nice, but that ultimately could not give up on the pro. And I hate the fact that the pro colors are also boring. So you've been .

in those group. We've been together in group media briefings, either both on online and in person. But I remember I guess I was wwdc where they first unveiled the current yeah I was definitely wwdc where they unveiled like the m two macbook ares with midnight oh yeah, has a bit color and I was there in persons and we know they break us up in the groups of seven, eight used to often and you know somebody asked, like, why not make these in color? And apple's product marketing people who do these briefings are almost always prepared for any possible question, whether its a question they want to answer and then they give you a good answer or questions they don't want to answer. They have a pared non .

question yeah and .

the prepared IT was a prepared non answer but IT was one of the worst i've ever heard them give like IT. And there was a look on the person's face that was like, I don't know.

like I just reading from a cute card. This is all i've been told to say, yeah, but I just it's like .

you can even just see IT into commercials. You know, like when they first made on a ray of colored IMAX back in one nineteen ninety nine, when they expanded from the bondy blue bondi bondy. I never pro bondi, whatever original blue imac to the array of colors. And I was just like such a fun commercial. And they paid for the rolling stone SHE comes in colors and you can just see the commercials make themselves and somehow they want to and they're doing fun color iphones.

No, I know just it's very limited. I mean, yeah, the thing that does this this point is that again, the collars are on the back. So like I, the back of my behind my studio display here is a walls, right? Even if I got a nice I mag with great dollars.

I would never see IT right? Somebody could tell me, you know, that when I was visiting your house months ago, I stuck a red socks sticker on the back of your studio despite, I wouldn't know, you know, like I tried to curse the anchors by putting a sticker on your on the back. I didn't to put IT.

Yeah, I write all my passwords posted right on the back on yeah I don't .

have much else to say about the IMAX couple .

a couple nice things like the the the increase in the thunderous ports. So there's for all the ports of thunder able now they were not that was previously too thunderous ports in two U S, B, C. ports.

So that's great. Although they're thunder four and five. I think that in the the m four chips yeah think that's about IT. We can talk about that. So I don't you're a mouse user regularly.

I am a mouse user at my desk.

but I also have a track pad, a magic track pad guy. So that stuff for me.

but I have a magic track pad too. So I have a mouse and and I am right handed. But in nineteen ninety four or five half way through college, right wasn't my rist, even although my wrist is hurt from typing and not knowing the organ, you know, a good economic height for typing, but my rist hurt from typing, but my right shoulder hurt terribly from mousing. And i've always been a little more ambitious ss than the average person, like, I don't really do anything left handed, but I can shoot a basketball Better left handed, the most right hand people can. And and I switched to mousing left handed in one thousand nine hundred and ninety four or five, and never looked at I one off a week, one off week.

It's funny. I very similar, because I used to do video editing in college, and I had a similar thing with sort of a rist ARM problem. And I also switched the left hand. But I like, after a few months, I went back. And I just yet I never I never really, really stuck with IT.

I guess, yeah, my friend Chris parish, who do you probably know, he did the same thing where R I decades ago, switched to using a mouse with his left hand. I don't use a track pad with my left hand. I use a track pad with my rain. But I i've used a mouse with my left hand now for thirty years.

Like our our pal guy, english also has a mouse on one side in the track pad on the .

other have a mouse on the left side used for almost all of my mousing. I've keyboard in the middle and on the right hand side of my keyboard. I keep a magic track pad which I use for, like, well, I have one, so why not go get up? And that I my mouse, I use a mouse with a mouse wheel, which I much prefer for scrolling.

But there are cases now in macos where you kind of want to pan, and you know, there's carousels and things where you kind of want to swipe side, decide. And a mouse wheel that only goes up and down doesn't let you do that. So I have the magic track pad for that.

And you know why not? You can keep two thirds connected. But yeah, I used on a mouse person, but I use the third party mouse.

And I know .

what going.

I have A, I do have one of the mice, but I think it's the old one that had the double or triple a batteries in IT. So I yeah is really I almost never used to was like connected to the mac mini A. I used to have hoop to my TV.

But yes, so they unsurprisingly, they changed literally nothing about the purple erles except for switching them from lightning to USB c, which I think is what everybody in like the sort of pessimistic betting pool was like that probably what's going to happen. But we just didn't want to admit IT and I I I did read your impassive defense of the the charging the magic mouse on the bottom, which I had to take. I'll give you to you.

I I see where you're coming from. And I even I even buy IT a bit. I think part of what I come back to is also that, that still the same thought about scale, which is it's just work is work they don't have to do and there's no point to doing IT if it's not going to change if they're not suddenly gonna pick up.

I like a ton of magic mouse sales rep from the switching the important. So why bother? right?

So some of that is true that there is a sort of scale and IT is expensive. You know, apple and theory could afford to do whatever they want. But I mean, that's the way you stay. The rich just company in the world this stay focused on not, well, sure. Where are the ridges go of the world would change .

everything yeah.

we can just spend a trillion dollars trying to make a car. You know you don't do many of those and you know, you know, you don't get to waste however many billions they did on a car project that they wound up abandoning if you make a lot of myself that you throw away.

But I know that one of the spitball theories on the laziness of the charging port on the bottom of the mouse is that there are just that IT literally dates back to the version of the magic mouse that had replaced. I don't know that was two batteries or one batteries, yeah, but my is weird because maybe I don't know, but my innovo that I use is wireless and takes one, one double a battery, and they promise one year a battery life. But I looked IT up and I went from december.

I got IT in december twenty twenty, and I didn't replace the battery till may twenty, twenty three. And I use IT all the time, so I got a lot out of, I don't know, maybe I got lucky, but one battery went a long time. But anyway, this look and feel and shape magic mouse date back to replaceable batteries.

And there's a theory that, you know that apple so lazy about this purpose that they that t why the charging port still on the bottom, but that doesn't really hold water because they dry dramatically, reach, change the keyboard and track pad after switching from batteries to lightning because they don't need. They could make a much low, much lower profile because the battery is good pic. So I mean, and that that goes back a long time.

The lightning magic mouse, the lightning one is nine years old. And I don't even know how much you, I don't even bother looking. I'm a holder.

The other shapes, the truth is they just like this shape mouse. They really obviously the internal designers and i'm sure their customer satisfaction numbers. So because they do measure customer satisfaction on everything famously, I think they really like the shape. And this shape mouse has no good spot for an exposed port. You like you could I know.

yeah, right. Could definitely not.

And so the argument from the people who hate this design is that would therefore they should change the shape. And I note, one thing I do know for a fact is that they I definitely know that apple designers have looked at and considered ways to put a port on the front every know where you could, like, keep IT connected and use IT. And basically, do they even want people to use the mouse while it's connected to that? I don't know the answer.

I'm speculating, but I know from talking to people at apple, I don't know anybody who knows the answer. The funny part is apple is so compart mentalizing that even people who work at apple for decades don't know. The answer is for why the mouse .

charges on the bottom person in that some group of people .

knows definitively why the mouse charges on the bottom. And all of the reasons and all the tradeoffs s that that actually were considered. But most people don't. But the idea that they don't want people to use IT tethered is widely speculated within the company. And I think it's true to but they just like the shape and also did one thing I know for sure is that when they considered ways to put IT at the top, they thought IT looked duggle.

And I I mean, I feel like your hand is out of most of the time and I have been going to see IT, but maybe that I know they they care about these things are IT. So but that's not my bugaboo, the orifice, my bugaboo with the purfled. The thing that made me angry because I was ready to go out by a magic yard.

So I knew this was not going to happen is the inverted t eroto. Es aren't still not on there. And that makes me angry because I miss them. I mean, I have an older magic where that something doesn't have a idea has the stupid for high side. But they changed IT on all the laptops. All the laptops went back to the inverted tea, and they just decided, which is not going to bother with the with the magic keyboards and maybe they think that looks Better, I don't know but if I think I know is me .

they had a what's the godfather line that today's the day we settle all family yeah and they had the the day of settling all family business with the macbook keyboards, right? Where is they spent five years trying to get this, the butterfly they aimed to work and throw in the town said, okay, we're giving up on this. We're going, we're got a new switch design.

And alone behold, here we are I think about five years into that nobody I haven't a single report from a single person anywhere in the world who said I got some chromes under a keyboard in my d key stopped working right IT hasn't haven't do a single person now that ah I think they feel Better and I get that subjective. And I totally concede that there are people who loved the fuel of a properly working butterfly like the macbook one port keyboard. But I didn't.

I like a little bit more click and travel, but part of that IT wasn't just the switch. I mean, the butterfly to not butterfly, don't you know what they call this? If this switch, whatever they are, that was part of IT.

But they definitely part of that was they went back to the upside down t arrangement for the araxes, which I didn't feel super strongly about, but I felt pretty strongly about because I really IT makes a difference. You can just feel IT, yes, right? The gap IT doesn't look as good. I will admit that IT doesn't look as good with the gaps, but I don't think he looks bad because the overall symmetry of the rectangle is still there. The gap is within the rectangle, not outside the rectangle.

Tell as well those things that bugs me with the the way they have IT now, because IT feels like those up and down keys just get, oh yeah, you don't need those. Those can be half. I don't know. It's harder to use to I mean.

what do you wish that the laptop had full hide up? And then, no.

no, no, no. I want I saying, like I use my magic keyboard, make the other one's bigger or make them more like I it's weird that they are half way like I find that irritating and and I again, I think probably some of the same factors that go into the magic mouse decisions go into the magic keyboard decisions, which is whether it's scale because it's just hate that the change we have to make and we just is not worth the expense because it's not impacting the bottom line of how many people are buying our keyboards.

I mean, how many people would they need? The preferable actually buy them. I supposed to getting them with a mac or something like that, that they've already bought, I don't know. But and then some combination of maybe they really don't think that looks Better, but I guess if you felt like I didn't look Better, you would be the same everywhere.

Yeah, I don't know. I would rather I don't use a magic keyboard, so I can't I can't speak from experience, but if I did, I would definitely much prefer the exact laptop layout with upside down tea and make the left, right half height othe .

wise pretty close. yes. I mean.

I don't even think this looks good though i'm looking right now the gap doesn't arrow keys are just inherently weird, right? Because I is very araxes are .

a very terminal command line feeling kind of thing. So and we .

spoke about apple's reluctance to make zeeland excuse of anything. But I also think it's weird like when you get into keyboards and i'm trying not to buy keyboards because I I spend money on not to take time away from Jason snails and next appear here we go off on keyboards if it's not based policy on, but I ve successfully I don't think i've spent money on a mechanical ical keyboard in two years. I don't know it's been a while because I just buy them, use them for a while and then go back to my forty year old apple static cuboid two.

I have said, I mean, I thought I bought one and thinking everybodys so into the meccan keyboard things and I used them when I was Younger and everything and and after using IT for a few weeks, I just decided I didn't IT was just too much for me and I went back to my my magic you are which I am generally pretty happy with again, because I was a laptop p on the user for a long time and it's close enough to their all their laptops that IT feels seamless to me. And I doesn't matter from sitting in a test topper or on my mac gab, it's basically the same keyboard. And I like that consistency.

I am gonna forget the lingo. There's so many diff. But the thing is, is when you get into the actual mechanical keyboard world, there are so many different sizes and so many people want like ones that are way smaller than even a magic keyboard.

They don't want functions, keys. I think .

there's ones that don't even have arrows. I don't know how those people work, you know, it's like people who know .

the control key combination.

I guess if you're spend your whole life in e max, I don't need IT. I don't know, but I mean, I salute the the the almost as a statism, right? It's it's so minimal not even have aries, but but there's also just in broad terms though, there's the small layout, which is like a laptop where IT ends at the return key and arrow keys have to be below. And then there's the full size with the numeric keypad. Dinner like a like a phone over on the far right with a middle area for the arrow keys to live and breathe in a true hide, a four four hide upside down tea with the page up, page down home and and what .

else is an uncertain delete?

I think you well, I use forward .

delete the OK. I see the shift delete if I need .

to yeah but but I don't use IT much know if if I had like account on how many times but I do use the page up and page down r but the arai but but there's also layouts that just just admit .

the numeric right yeah right.

And if they just have the room to the right of the alphabetic keys for the arrow keys to live in the age up page down home and and and the forward delete, and whatever the key is, nobody uses above insert, insert, which I don't don't know what if I .

don't remember there was again a command line and would like dos a stuff where there was a point of that but now.

yeah ah I guess you know I don't know. I guess you out of something to do with that key and a sign, a keyboard myo maco to IT or something i've got this beautiful key, but I don't know why apple doesn't make another you know a keyboard in the middle.

You know, that's what I want.

The other weird thing that again, it's so many years now, they're just obviously not going to change. But like if you break your Green magic keyboards, you can't just go into the store and buy one. They only sell the keyboards in black and White and a colored ones that match your imac are only available with the imac. I guess if it's under warm, you know you can go in warranty, i'll get you on, but you can buy one. So if you just want a pink magic keyboard, you can get one unless you can find someone buys or take guy mac who doesn't want the keyboard.

Yeah, I know I bubbs me up, but I again, I kind of understand from like A A scheme management is a pain, is a pain. I think they just don't want to have to deal with having six different keyboards or whatever, six different magic, my six different track path as cool those would be. And as much as I would consider buying, uh, a Green one or something like that, but I just I can understand why they're like that.

We're just going to make IT easy, I don't know.

but not the keyboard business. That's not it's not our main thrust to things.

you know. And somebody else was saying was somebody also tell me that they wish that I had written this magic mouse, the port is fine, where IT is overall peace years ago. And as I had been in my back of my head for years, but i've always been reluctant to write IT because I don't use the magic mouse.

And so is there sort of a oo if I don't use IT, I don't know if I should spout off about IT, but I guess the thing that drove me not so and and I thought one of the most interest citing times where he came up was when markets browse had tim cook on his youtube show after wwdc and did a like clearly not you know, hadn't prepped tim cook for IT a stacked rank list of i'm going to talk out some apple products and you tell me which one is Better than the other and tossed out the magic mouse. And in M, K, B, H, D world, his audience is like ground zero for the hay. The magic mass charging port is absolutely a certain ridiculous contingent with the means like o here's how apple car would have charged.

And there's a picture of a car that upside down and you have to plug IT in on the belly. But IT was IT wasn't awkward because tim cook is so fast as mind as so fast. He did fine.

But IT was in congress because IT was sort of meant as a funny how wasn't like trying to make a shot cook at all but I was supposed be funny. But tim cook's answer was so clearly not cognizant of that portion of world that thinks it's absurd. Like obviously he didn't know that because you know the one.

I'm sure he's tuned into is the customer sad numbers. And as in his parLance, and i'm sure he knows that the customer sad on the magic mass is high. And so he just he just seemed to him like, wow, what a weird questioned right? And just spoke about IT as a popular mouse.

How do you want to choose among my children? S .

right. But but the people who think it's absurd seem to also base a lot of them. Not market, i'm sure, because is smart. But there are people who seem to think that people at apple don't even know that this is seen as absurd by some people. Yeah, I think there's only apple nose.

They know there's often like A A perception that if something is wrong or you disagree with the way apple has done something that they must not be aware of, like they must not be using their own product or something I think clearly untrue. In the vast majority of cases, they have other rationales.

And I think that is the the the the part of the your story that I think I appreciate, which is there's always another story here like this, is a company that makes not only good products, but also makes a ton of money selling these products and therefore is doing research, is doing looking into design and all of these things, and has considered alternatives. And if they chose this, they choose IT for a reason. You may not agree with that reason, but they did IT for a reason, not because there are total morons.

right? And if you would rather have a mouse that has a charging port on the front, just go buy one, right? The idea that apple should have to make IT for you is ridiculous.

And these are people. The people who are complaining about this are the sort of people who fully know they're not like my dad. My dad might think that only an apple mouse works with his imac.

He might know. I don't know if any company we're going to do that. That would be apple. Let's go to say we don't support their advertised es at all. You know the people who are laughing at the charging port on the belly of the magic mouse are the exact sort of people who know very well and often. And my opinion probably are like me, music got magic house.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I would, if only I had a good charging port. They say, yeah, right.

I will say as as a side note is one thing I will agree with is I don't think apple does a good job with the warnings on these purple erles. When they're low on Better, they do warn you.

So part of the the role, my eye at the people who were like and then my mouse was completely dead and I was in the middle of something, or I was on deadline and I had to wait, even if I only had to wait five minutes to get a charge that would last me, you know, the rest of the day, I still had a weight, couldn't use IT. And if I if they would just let me use IT while it's plugged in, I could have use IT. You had to ignore warnings to get there.

But I will say the way they do the warnings, it's like it's easy. Once you dismiss IT, IT goes away. You Better if I gave you a notification that you could leave in the corner, like, let me leave that notification in the corner to remind myself when I do take a break to plug this thing in.

Yeah, I have to go find my like bluetooth menu or whatever so I can see what my what my charging rate is. But yeah, I just get stuck notification center with everything else basically.

Let me take a break here and thank our next sponsors are good friends at membership, and membership is a great way for any site with an audience to build a membership system for that audience. But and I often pitch this towards people, creators who have website building an audience. But also is a great thing to think about if you're developer, if you're developer who makes websites for people who might want to build a membership system.

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even mini. Mac nano. I am a mini user, so and I got, I have an empty pro mini, which I like quite a bit. But IT is that classic design, which always is pretty fundy me.

You look at the tear downs for these things and it's like empty space, right? It's like a serial box or bagger chips or something. And you i'm glad that they finally got around to the point of like, why don't we just make IT smaller, like we can save on materials.

We can basically do all this because the apple silicon power efficiency and calling is so good. We don't need all the space that we used to need for these. And we can trim down the ports, right? Goodbye, U.

S, B, A ports, which they're nice to have. I like having them on this one because I have a couple older peripherals that use USB. A, they are great for power.

I have stuff that uses them for power. But you know it's it's clear where the writing on the wall is. And for me, the real win is the putting the ports on the front, like from the max tudie.

And this is also faster to me because this is a place which directly feels like IT sort of goes back to our magic mouse conversation, which is this is very clearly A R A functions over form thing, right? IT is convenient to support on the front. IT doesn't look as good as just, oh, the unbroken slab of aluminum, but it's undeniable if you want to pull in IT like a thug driver or something.

I don't want to be known behind my computer trying to figure out something in the U. S, B, A days where it's like got a wrong, got a flipped over and dry again. Somehow it's still wrong.

I think putting those on the front is great. I'm excited about that. The one thing that gives me a little bit of policies.

putting the headphone jack on the side.

which I get IT. If you use headphones and your plug and stuff in, in all the time, it's good IT really is. But I have speakers connected. It's going to like speaker cable to .

the front of my right. It's so cute and IT looks Better than ever. And now i've got a permanent, and I speaker cables gonna permanent.

right? You look at heavy and it's can be snaking over the desk, and I feel like so close. So I mention that I masted out and people I got just get a USB c adapters like, I mean, to use up a funder able five port to drive my speakers, my analog just up speakers .

ah and what also they're going to do though, put in a second headphones, jack, like we've taken .

all these arrows in our back to the headphone jack and the line jack.

I know in some sense I can see that, but that that line of thinking taken to its extreme, takes you to, you know, pcs that still ship with VGA adapters yeah I mean, it's like, well, more ports is Better in a way.

So yeah.

but yeah, like for plugging in. Headphones on the front is Better for pluggin. Speakers on the front is ugly.

And honestly, if I did switch, I IT made me conclude that I would probably just end up using the studio, display the speakers, because for the stuff that I do play audio for, they are fine. I don't play a lot of music on my, on my mac. I'm usually doing a pie cast edit, or i'm listening to audio from a video of some kind.

And honestly, I have these desktop monitors I bought when my old speaker's dig, because I figured, oh, I should. I should get some nicest speakers, kind of big and bulky, and they are, they're good. They are good speakers.

But I can, I don't need them for what I do. So I guess I can see that to apples. So we just use the studio display that you undoubtedly bought with your mac mini for the speakers. You all said.

um I think on the U. S, B, A port thing, nobody, even an apple. Apple famously, I mean famously and infamously is aggressive about moving from like what the deems as legacy ports to new ports. And even apple can miscalculate right like they obviously in thought the u sbc. Industry transition was going to happen sooner than I did. And you know and I think going like the the one port macbook was bananas, in my opinion, because you needed IT for charging too, because you even one U S, B, C ports on that machine with mag safe would have at least been understandable. But the idea that if you're using IT well charged charging you can't plug anything in was so strange and really .

IT really was .

john I I minimalism taken to the extreme? And I think that's the thinking. The thinking was this is a machine that you're not supposed you it's more like a phone or an ipad and you're not supposed to use IT while let's charging yeah to even know my wife uses his her ipad on the couch while charging all the time.

Do you think that when the studio gets revamp, IT will also drop the USB imports? You think we're on that trend of the laptops have, have haven't have them in years?

Yeah, I think so. I don't think I don't think apples ever going to make a new machine with USB a ports again. And if you need USB, a IT is no big deal, very convenient or or just a little adapter, just get one and you can get really good ones that support USB three speeds on amazon for internet like seven bucks.

And just if you need a USB airport, then you put a little adapter on one of years and that's that's on you yeah or if it's one particular device, just put IT on the cable for that device and leave the adapter on that cable. I mean, I have two of those in my laptop bag and it's fine. Um so I think adapters really solve that problem. It's just it's taken a while, but I think the worlds gone to U. S, B, C.

I.

And if you really need USB a, the adapters, the cause like some box, I mean, and are so many of a man amazon, it's the sort of thing. Depending on where you live, you may not even be next day. You might be able .

to get IT by the end of the day, right? Sometimes tables is like whatever you need on the device in the U. S, B, C. On the other end, especially, is for power. That doesn't really matter.

Vg, ly, disappointing to me. Not that I care too much, but you know and again, you know, i'm mini zing esky a little disappointing that you can only get IT in silver and you can't get IT in space black.

Well, that space black one was kind of a one off right.

Never did IT again. And well, but I also think it's a good way. I feel like if I were pitching jeff Williams internally, you know, the I feel like they could, whatever IT would cost them to, to have a separate production line to make black ones space, black ones in addition to silver.

They could make up with that by only making space black for the m for row variants. And there will be some number of people who will be just fine with them for, but they want the black ones, so they'd pay the extra. A guess .

that's the black, black book really covered a macbook all over again. Pay an extra a couple hundred books .

you can get IT in black yeah. Was like two hundred box to get a black macbook instead of a White one.

But you know that you guess not surprising. I think the other thing this actually people get their hands on .

IT is the power button on the bottom. Yeah, yeah. I thought it's one of those things where I had to edit the post and they took IT out. Like at first I thought by looking at the pictures, you'd still be able to slip a finger under there. But then I realized by comparing IT, IT was like the the picture on the on my screen was so much bigger than an actual.

That mini, like the mac mini, the new mac mini is so small that the picture I was looking at on my studio display was bigger than real life. And I was comparing IT to the height of the front USB c ports, which I can compare to visit I O. There's no way your fingers going to fit into there. You are literally, you're going to have to lift to tilt IT up to get the power button.

And I guess there the rational is, well, how often are using the power button in the end is honestly, I don't use IT that much on my mac mini, either starting which i'm doing in software or on rare casion. If I get a lockup or have to shut down for some reason, but honestly, I can count on one hand the number of times I probably use the power button on my mac mini and it's not like it's super convenient on the back either.

But right, this is I have to assume some of this is just a materials engineering thing. There's not a lot of space on the back. IT would have had to be curved probably and and that might be tRicky. And aluminum because it's plastic on the current back, I don't know that's just kind of my thinking.

But I I guess the other thing is that given how small the footprint is, that doesn't make any sense that you're gonna stack anything on top of IT, right? yeah. So I mean, in the worst, I mean, maybe people will stack like an .

SSD and next dry. It's not like it's heavy yeah .

that's not going to prevent you from tilting IT up to get to the power.

And it's if there was a hard drive, old years, I should I be tilting because it's got moving spinning disks .

in IT or whatever, right? And you know so I think I think it's fine. But again, I I think this the magic mountain gic import location is fine. So maybe it's a good thing.

They didn't put the power red after on the bottom here that would have been real.

Saw somebody somebody had a photoshop job which owed the power after being on the bottom. This is pretty funny. I see if I could put that in the shot ah .

but it's good that I mean, i'm glad they kept the internal power supply. I'm glad they get the ethernet port and again, they they actually is even a smaller difference this time around between the and foreign pro models because they both have the same number of ports. It's just that the pro models are thunder, able five as opposed to four.

Yes, all of the ports in the back. I got this wrong in my first right up. The all the ports of all mac mines are thunder bold.

On the back, m four is thunderous. Four, yes, m four pro, they're all thundery. But on all mac minis, the two ports on the .

front are just U. right? I think that's good to have the consistently between us because he was a wear the last generation IT was like, I think they're just fewer thunder able flash USB c ports in the back overall.

And that seemed weird. But I think that apple also the mini is such an interesting this device for that. Again, like some of the other ones we discussed, doesn't get updated that often.

But it's like the most version, al mac, that there is. And he used, as they pointed out, in all of these different wild scenarios, right? People use them. I used everyone on my TV stand for years, people black mount dom. People put them in cars like it's, it's wild and it's cool. And I think apple likes having that sort of swiss army nike tool that fits all of those possible use cases and having IT be pretty much equally as capable, I think in both the age. Just want a little extra of you pay a little bit more.

Yeah, there is previous haven't sponsored in a while, but i'll i'll say that they've sponsored to show numerous times max stadium. And prior to them.

I forget a mac and polo, yes.

yeah I forget a max data and just merged. But anyway, a whole company is dedicated to putting mac mines in in professional server farms and data set. You know and business is going strong and you know if anything might be more popular than ever, seems bananas. The range of what wide people use mac mini and what they buy them for goes from the least professional to most professional use cases imaginable.

I have that base honestly, like, I like have the problem. But that base model at six hundred books, pretty good, pretty good. These are hardware. Honestly, I think there's nothing the sneeze out there.

Yeah, I don't think there's any other product apple makes that has such a runs. The gammit of reasons why people buy IT. I mean, certainly, for example, with macbook pros, there are people who buy expensive macbook prose to use in context where they are not pressing the technical limits at all, but they're not. The difference is nobody y's buying IT because it's cheap, where people are literally buying the magni because this is the cheapest way to get a brand new mac and and supports third party display is what you can get for, you know, sixty box on amazon if you want pocket in the HDMI port, right? I mean, if you really want to get a mac up and running for seven hundred box total, you could do IT with a mac mini.

Yeah, yeah. absolutely. The one weirdness I noticed was that that pro on is also starts with twenty four gigs of memory. You can go to forty eight or .

sixty four.

There's no thirty two. Yeah, what you have, odd. I mean, I need channels, but yeah, i've made a link in the note.

I gotto put this in. You wrote a good column, colors what you're talking yourself out of upgrading your personal vacuity because you wanted IT. And that was one of cool, one of the ways I to pay more yeah you ve already got thirty two and IT seems weird to buy a new machine and go down to twenty four but you don't need forty eight and its .

four hundred dollars or something like it's yeah ah dictionary expensive .

to do that the RAM and S S D updates upgrades in this remain very high Price. I think that's how there .

they're using that to subsidize raising the minimum to sixteen gay e across the board is everybody gets sixteen gigs of memory, but we're going to take IT out the people who .

want to buy more RAM um while we're on that IT is definitely worth and decide to just mention RAM across the board for everything is up. So all of these m for max, every single one started sixteen gig bites of RAM. There are no a good configurations for anything with the m4。 Other thing, I guess the ipad what's this?

The ipad pro hf, don't think it's got to have at least eight because of apple intelligence. I'm not sure if they want a RAM in their .

but the other big news is in is not like a footnote, but it's very highly unusual is that apple has upgraded the base rem without raising the Price of the existing mac book air to sixteen gig bites, which for the m three models doesn't really surprise me even though it's off cycle. But IT really surprises me that even for the nine ninety nine m two model, the as of today for nine ninety nine you get a sixteen gigabit m two book pro and .

it's apple intelligence, right?

IT has to be right that they just know that this uses so much RAM that is actually IT actually makes a gig about too tight at .

least and they want people use the I O S. We know that giggs is kind of the minimum, but I guess the memory management is handled so differently, right? Maxi, yeah.

great because you could have final cup pro open grants fire or that they use chrome or safari anche with a bunch of tabs open. They don't get the the memory model on Michael s doesn't flush them or freeze them or whatever you want to ever you want to describe IT in lay person terms, they're all running. And so apple intelligence suddenly gives makes a gig, but it's too little even on apple and silicon don't .

want people buying that interview level, thousand doors, macbook air and saying way that doesn't do all those apple intel gent features you've been talking about. I think there they are, cognitive the but that would get people upset.

Let's see apple's text backs for the ipad pro. Still don't mention RAM yeah .

I think a suggesting is IT .

says eight gig but here's here's a answer from I G N. Eight gables of you up for two fifty six or five twelve storage and sixteen gables for one terrible or two terabytes. So they do make and I think about and for chip, that's an the ipad pro. But ah none of the max haven't but that the macbook here are going to sixteen as a baseline.

That's did my air when I bought IT to sixteen because I was not enough for me. And I feel like actually that's fine. I would take the base ring on that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think for a lot of people too, you know, I guess we'll see how apple intelligence shakes out, especially with the upcoming features that aren't even out yet. But I suspect that it'll be become for everybody. I think this is great.

And I think if you know, even before we knew apple intelligence was coming, I feel like like among listeners of our shows and our websites, everybody's felt a little uncomfortable telling their friends and family and know the base models fine for you. I think most of us have felt like, hey, what you know and I need a new macbook air, which should I get? You know, I need new macbook. Which one should I get? Yeah, you should get the macbook here and if you you upgrade and and you should upgrade the RAM yeah I mean.

we both come from areas where he was always by as much rain as you can afford, right? That was always to conventional wisdom. And the united memory architecture has changed that a little bit.

But I still think sixteen does feel like a lot more breathing room than a gigs. And IT and IT removes that people. There was a lot of criticism of that, again, especially from our audiences of a gig feeling kona bars. And I think removing that and especially again, we just discussed like how much they charge for rammers z, do you need at no cost to basically customers are they got super smart.

super smart, no promises because this one I have to look up. But I seem to recall IT on an atp episode sometime in the last year where somebody sent into them like a graph of the base and .

I think you have I think six colors had two days and link .

to after seemed .

it's been a long time since the ticket yeah have been job three.

tim cook, CEO. And I mean, this is a graph that went back to, like the eighties ninety nine, I think is where he goes and there and IT was, yeah, IT was. But IT was a fairly steady upward slope.

And you know, always a little frustrating towards the end of the went from four eight megabits, my bites, but IT kept going up at a fairly predictable level. And then tim cook became CEO and IT. Really it's hard not to draw a connection, you know, that the the the team cooks mindset LED to and stagnation in the base around honestly.

And twenty seventeen was the year went to eight, which is quite a long seven years, that at a gig bites is a long time.

yeah. So finally, good, good for apple, though Better late than never in a apple intelligence forced their end. IT might be the best single best aspect of apple intelligence.

right? You're not wrong. I would agree.

What else about the mac mini .

and say there's no other things. I mean, obviously, we will talk a little bit about all the in for architecture stuff. I think that displays I remember I think that change to how many displays I can drive a single display user. So I don't think about that, but I know people are very have strong.

I think that drives up. I think they all drive up to three displays now and they maybe it's only the ones with the pro chip that to have thunderous five can do A K displays. They added to .

both two A K, K at sixty one display yeah, but I think that the process can do a six k and in A K, whereas other one can do a five k and in A K. So but that's a bad honestly, all those are pretty solid. If you're I feel like you are trying to drive two or three displays over these things, I think that's pretty reasonable. And that's a bigger issue for the m four based ones, which I think we're more hampered in the past. I especially press the was the m three one where it's like you could actually in the laptops run lead closed, you could run two externals or whatever, which was A A big point of contention .

before that IT LED to some speculation when I think the specks came out yesterday that some people I saw hitting me up, like, do you think apple is going update to displays this week too and they didn't? There are no new displays, but I would have guess even beforehand that if there are new displays coming in the next twelve months, they would come alongside the max to in the mac pro in the spring. I got more reason. The X O display. X D R, I think, goes back to twenty nineteen at least.

I know the of the old mac pro. Yeah, I was the old old, the new old mac pro.

And when they first drilled the holes in the side with fancie mfd ers and stuff. So that protest play, X, C, R is, at this point, long in tooth, especially for something that's so expensive. Would they go to eight k, or would they offer two models? I don't know. But I would guess spring time, if apples going to update that.

Yeah yeah.

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So that brings this to the macpro macbook pro. I today in out macpro, try a long time away from the, I am guessing spring. But macbook prose, which I think are the ones there have been, I think because they are apples, the most important max there, that you know the best selling ones of the macbook air.

But I think the most important of the macbook prose, I think the macbook error could skip a year or be a little less regular. You know, they only came out with the six or fifteen and size of cycle macbook pros. They remain one of my favorite, very favorite changes with regard to apple silicon compared the intel is that the fourteen inch models remain technical peers to the sixteen.

There's no high end model that you can all you only get the forty four GPU on sixteen. Enter something like that. nope. You can whenever you want, if you want the fourteen and footprint, you get the fourteen model. And I can't wait to see you in person because I am such a fan of the nano texture studio displayed now finally, for the first time since, like I don't know, two thousand eight nine somewhere around there, when they used, call him mad threat, they have a nano texture finish and it's only one hundred fifty box and it's one hundred fifty. I and I saw that in this morning and I was I was like, well, my fourteen okay, now that it's two hundred for sixteen, no sixteen inches, also only one hundred fifty box.

Yes, it's pretty good to you, especially because so they they had that they did with the m for ipad pro, right? They did at a anorexia, but it's a different process. My understanding is this is the same as the studio display and the protest play X, D, R process.

yeah. And IT looks from their illustration that IT goes edge dead. I think one of the weared things about the ipad nano texture ipad is that the puzzle is still galaxy.

And yeah and I don't know why. I don't know if it's like that feels Better this way. It's it's kind of weird dog. I had a review unit that had IT and or either later I just saw in person someone help but it's weird and I don't think the macbook prose do IT that way.

which that makes sense. Me I assume the the consideration with the eye as you're touching IT all the time, which you're not getting obviously with any of your other display because apple yet to make a screen max. So I think that makes sense, but I am impressed because IT feels like definitely one of those cases where we've now done this enough and we've got this process down that it's more affordable than I used to be. And so IT isn't as much as you're going to pay a lot to get that, that nano texture finish, but I don't I haven't seen them as much in the real world. And I know some people talk about the color having some effects on the color brightness .

or vividness or whatever. definitely. no. I mean, I I have live with and because of the way I often mention IT, but the way the sunlight comes into my office and I I need IT really like before I had this studio display with the nano texture, there are it's I think november in April, it's there's two times of the year coming up is the one six months apart because of the you know a science.

But there's like a two week period in november and a two week period in April where midday, which for me is like great when i'm starting my day, like this is just a beam of sunshine that hits where my desk sits in my office. And before I had a studio display with nano texture, we've moved here in twenty seventeen. So i've been, you know, working in this office since twenty seventeen.

I would just take disconnect if I had a, at the time I had an imac, I would just switch to a different device and go to the kitchen for an hour. I had to IT was in that type of sunlight that I literally could not even read the screen for about ninety minutes a day in the middle of my workday. And now I don't even notice.

I like, is the sun hit my screen and I hold my hand up? And it's like inDiana Jones testing the ray of sunshine in riders of the lost ark. And it's like, oh yeah, there is a very strong beam of sunshine hitting my display and I wasn't even sure the nano texture glare reduction is so good.

So I don't need that for my macbook because a macbook I can just move whatever I want and I don't really work outside. But i've always ever since apple switch, I just prefer a math display even though IT does absolutely does sort of take some of the pop at the color. I don't think IT desaturated, but I I just prefer IT anyway.

I actually whatever he does to the color, and I know some people don't like IT and so don't buy IT and you're lucky you get to save money. But I I don't mind what that does to color, and I just prefer IT overall, I always have. And I mean, this goes back to the earliest days of the talk show with dan Benjamin, you know, talking about, I always bought the map option on the that book and or power book going back that. So i'm glad to see you come back. I also saw peoples, I don't know the technical explanation for this, but that apple's used of quote and quote nanos texture is specific to laser edg of glass, and macbook displays are definitely not glass, but they're still calling and nanotechnology know what they're doing.

Interesting yeah I don't know either. That's it's a interesting what i'll be will be intriguing to see when people get their hands on the review units for those yeah how how IT shakes out.

I don't think much has changed from the m trees other than you know .

pretty standard. You still got that like base level one. That's just the straight m4。 You've got the no m four pro four teen inch and of course, the the sixteen h, which is just the m4 pro or max， right?

There's what time, I think if the chips are kind of the big part, obviously, and that's what's driving, I think, most of the revisions of the micro pro, especially since in such a workforce, they talked a lot about the improvements compared to both the m three in the m one. That was interesting. They did not talk with the m two, but maybe I was just for, okay, we two things we can talk about will talk about the most reason.

One will talk about all the people we expect to upgrade from the m one because if you're coming from an m2， you're probably not going to upgrade. So it's not as much of a use case. Yeah I mean, that seems like pretty consistent rather the generational they've gained twenty thirty percent performance. You're over year in the generation. So nothing too shocking with of that.

Yeah i've seen people back before we recorded IT as a friend already hit me up like that. Some of apples like on the main macbook pro web page, the comparisons are to the m one. But like in the video that they had today, you know they had a comparison, both the m like you said, m and m1。 So you can compare year over year.

You can also compare back to the m one. And you know it's it's like I said to my friend, it's sort of like a little bit like the adage, the lawyers advised that if the laws on your side banging law, the facts are on your side, bang the facts. And if neither on your side, bang the table.

And so if year over year improvement were dramatic, i'm sure they're what they're emphasize, right? Just because, well, look at what we have done year over year, but it's not insignificant, but it's not wow. But I also think comparing to m one isn't unfair.

It's not just like, well, let's Cherry pick this. The oldest is apple silicon to make the three point four x instead of whatever one point two x or whatever the factor difference would be. But I think it's much more reasonable that, that's the target audience of devices people currently owe that they might be starting to get the h to upgrade.

Yeah yes.

I saw my main max and m one max macbook pro and I you i'm key into this. You know, this is my profession and I still think, my god, this machine does everything I do.

I feel much of the same, at least there they change the design of some of my covering of the new ones. But it's it's great machine IT is impressive how well apple still kind of stood up and I often thick to myself like great IT does its three point four or four times faster, whatever.

But it's like, what is that? What does that change in my daily life? Like for me, it's maybe bouncing some logic project files or something, but i'm not doing much to tax. So but they keep they keep chugging forward.

So I don't know when the point is where i'll be like O K, now the time to upgrade, I feel like it's probably whenever something like apple intelligence or whatever comes along that is A K you can't do IT on an m one. But the so far the m ones rio, as long as you have enough RAM, the m ones are totally fine. Yeah.

I cannot emphasize enough how much I am already. I'm the one trying to emphasize that, but i'm already taking for granted that they're on an annual upgrade cycle. And IT just just is not the way macbook process used to be. IT used to just be like, surprise. We ve got a new one, say, oh great wow is .

IT a and then sometimes design we don't know yeah .

the either time sometimes there would just be a speed bump, would be like I had no event. You know, it's just a press release, but we've know it's gone from so many mega hurts mega t to date itself to slightly faster, mega hurt or something .

like that expect we do not even talk about anymore, which I enjoy the apples managed to get away from that entirely now it's about about course about memory band with all I fun .

stuff no but um you know and lots of course in the end for I don't think more. I just did the comparison right before we started recording where I think the m3 max was the same， where most of the convicts are fourteen cores with ten performance for high efficiency and you can pay more, not too much more. That was only like three inter box or something to go to sixteen CPU cres or twelve or high performance and you still keep the for high efficiency. And IT was a .

big but the but IT was .

a big yeah for both the pro in the man, seventy five percent faster.

something I went from one fifty to two seventy three on the, on the the pro, and then four hundred to five forty six. I that is a expect that gets beyond me in terms of just how where does that demonstrate. But IT IT does feel like that is A A place where they have focused their intentions. Therefore, one things we must be significant.

Yeah, I think the other cosmetic tweak is that the even the lowest and models, you get a space black and slow and not space Green and sold. Last year, there was a just exactly like I was alluding to, which charging more for a black mac, rainy, there was a, you couldn't get the Better, in my opinion, darter.

I I think I don't know anybody I haven't seen, and you can usually find somebody who like something I found, anybody who lamented the change from space, greater space black. Like I know people who prefer silver versus darker period. And so you've always been in luck because they always make silver. But if you're gonna go darker, IT should be dark. Not yeah like slightly darker .

yeah i've been weird to have all those shades you have you've had silver, space gray, space black plus the midnights over on the airline.

Well, at least the midnight is a distinctive i've already been mixed up like with review units where i'm like, great, is this silver space gray or like an apple hands on like after an event is what am I looking .

at over an space gray or black? I mean, let's let's pick a lane here.

Yeah so space black is good and it's so. But the the entry model fourteen and macbook pro, you can get in space black. So ah parade for that. What is five on the other side .

on the mind?

Yeah I think always oh, they added a the base model, right? Yes yeah. The base model is they're making the base model justify the pro name really. I mean that sort of I think the the overworking story of what they've done, right, where there were these years where the entry model macbook pro really was pro .

only in the name that's a you right, sometimes with solidly more RAM or something, but is really basically just the air in a in a pro chasa.

right? And and there was even an event before the the macbook air went retina, where full shiller even pitched the thirteen inch macbook pro as the replacement for the air because I had a retina screen already. You know he wasn't saying this is the replacement is like if you have a macbook car though and you're holding out for a retina display here, IT is.

And I guess that's still the major difference where you get that x dr. Display on the prose, even on the base model that you do not get on the air, which I have not spent as much time with the macbook prose. I've generally been in areas, although I was i've been using a fifteen, eight air for a while and IT is I was just looking at spects compare that and thinking fourteen and age like i've gotten by just fine with the fifteen and jar, actually pretty pretty light and pretty useful in the fall is is lighter and smaller in some ways as well. Maybe maybe I should swish you a fourteenth.

I think that just that wrapped up that the overall movement towards an annual schedule for all these max, or at least trying to get as many of them and annual is possible, in addition to being a benefit as a user to make IT predictable. Like, is this a good time to buy a bright a blank mac? I think the a that's just great.

B IT. Keeps anything from languishing for years, which is never good. But then the other thing is that does seem like it's helping apple clarify the overall product lining up like there is more distinction now between a macbook air and a macbook, even the lowest and .

macbook pro right there, a windowing too. There is we've had times in the past where one model or another has felt kind of like an orphing. I mean, like in the touch bar years when you had that one that didn't have a touch bar, why why have they not updated all of these? And I think that's .

the one that wasn't really pro, right, even though there were people who wanted IT because .

I did have a touch bar. yeah. And so I think I like that IT.

Is help clarify a little bit of can we just still right? Can we still this down to kind of what are the niches that we're trying to address and what are the products that fill those? And I think it's IT is interesting to watch and see.

Will this really be annual, especially for some things? I mean, the meeting is a great example. The many went years between updates sometimes.

And this is the second one. Get up. third. I guess we had anyone, m two and m four. There was no ms, as I recall. And that's that's a lot, a lot more minute less than we've had previous .

that there was even know sort of like, hey, where reinvigorated about the mac before apple silicon where they they came out with a mac many update and IT was sort of as clothes they're going to come to apologizing where they are like, yeah, we we kind of let this mag many slip for couple of years, but we know that people who love IT really love IT, including serious pro use cases.

And I just remember, like, remember what was tom boger boger doing? IT saying, like there are like some of the biggest concert names, you know, sixty thousand seat stadiums for concerts, and all of the audio is going through mac mines, you know, because they're small and they want small, and that does everything they need, and then they gotta packed IT up and take IT to another city tomorrow. So using the mac mini is exactly what these pros want, but yeah going years without update. But the other thing is just along those lines, like I feel like shrinking the money, making IT more mini and saying is the m four and m four pro gives more conceptual clarity between the mac mini and the max studio. Yeah, max studio starts with m four max and and presumably ultra.

You can enter the imac on there too, right? Because the imac doesn't have a proportion. IT really is positioned much like the air on the laptop side.

He, this is our sort of bog standard. Basically you want to start you, anna, come here. Does everything write out the box? Got to me all that you just you're ready to go.

And I think that, that makes a lot of sense from a product gLance. See at point, of course, the IMAX has been there standard barrow since ninety seven, which is the kind of iconic mac. I mean, traces is all the way back to the original mac or I think he does really do a nice job of bringing the product line together.

Yeah like the whole I know that the mac studio 和 mac pro have not been updated for a while， and I keep saying I expect them to be you know first happen next year.

And I think if that's true and that happens, we could definitely say at that point right now, the mac lineup overall, top to bottom, every model make sense, has a role, has never the whole mac moin forty years a macintosh has the whole lineup has never made this much sense since one thousand nine hundred eighty four, whenever is water. So are right and you either wanted or you don't think that's IT right. Alright, it's about IT for for this.

Thank you. Dance good, heavy back on the show. My pleasure.

Thanks for having work.

guys. I've mentioned six colors multiple times. People can read there, but also your own authority. Al universe is you demand that .

com net m.

What's coming up next for you as an author .

as an author or I just put out my most recent book, which called the armagnac tocom, which is the end of Michelle active cobo series. So that wrapped up on working on a new book, which i'm delivering early next year. And I don't know when it's out yet, maybe late next year at the earliest, but that's stand alone science fiction novel than i'm working on.

And because IT is just around halloween, i'll plugged my last year with a supernatant detective thriller called also lost. Which has attacked angle to IT. There's a spooky going on to a big tech company, and I think especially many people listen this show. My friend didn't think that was very familiar.

so I was lost. Yes, that is it's good timing. That's a coincident.

but and I hope I hope you get at least your game five. I'm not sure I can root for you to take the whole series, but I hope you hang out a little longer. IT gets some entertainment out of that.

Thank you. I appreciate that that that might be the nicest things hurt someone for me.

I want you to know I dug deep for that.