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Welcome to the Serial Killer Podcast. The podcast dedicated to serial killers. Who they were, what they did, and how. Episode 135.
I am your Norwegian host, Thomas Roseland Weyborg Thun. And tonight, we continue our saga of The Butcher Baker. Millions of people have lost weight with personalized plans from Noom, like Evan, who can't stand salads and still lost 50 pounds. Salads generally for most people are the easy button, right? For me, that wasn't an option. I never really was a salad guy. That's just not who I am. But Noom worked for me.
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Last episode, I left you as he was a volunteer fireman in the Midwest. I also went into quite a bit of detail regarding the academic theories surrounding the terms serial murder and serial killers. I do hope my dear listeners appreciated some academic flesh served with their cold bones of crime.
Tonight, I promise less academia and more background. As always, I find it is of vital importance to understand all aspects of a serial killer's life, not just his crimes. So, let us again travel to the American Midwest before we travel to the High North. Enjoy. As always, I want to publicly thank my elite TSK Producers Club.
This club includes 22 dignified members of exquisite taste, and their names are
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And I promise to answer any question. So don't miss out and join now. Fire. Red. Yellow. Black. All-consuming. Heat. Like you have never felt before. The Inferno stands before you like a wall. It has many of the characteristics of a living being.
It breeds oxygen to exist. It moves of its own accord. It is born. It grows. And eventually dies. And it speaks. Well, it roars. Robert Hansen is looking at the inferno that used to be the town bus barn while he is pointing his fire hose uselessly into the flames.
He is exhilarated and can't keep from smiling, his eyes reflecting the flames, making them seem filled with fire themselves. Three buzzers, the barn and its contents had been destroyed. The school kids saw men poking around in the ashes and debris in the days following the fire, which was a natural topic of conversation all over town. A fire marshal concluded the fire was an act of arson.
Three months of investigation produced no leads. Then police chief Wiseman received a call from a 16-year-old whose conscience was bothering him. It was the jeweler's son who worked at the Hansen Bakery. The boy confessed that on several occasions, Robert Hansen said he wanted to burn the bus barn down to see if he could get away with it and to get even with the school superintendent who disciplined him a couple of times.
Finally, he had done it. Hansen had talked the youth into participating in this scheme, and on the night of the fire, the two met at the bakery and quickly did some work there to establish an alibi. Then they carried a five-gallon can of gasoline to the bus barn. Hansen took it up a ladder to the barn loft, poured the gas around, and ignited the fire. Then the pair hurried back to the bakery.
On the 29th of March 1961, he was charged with arson. Hansen waived a preliminary hearing and his case was bound over to a grand jury. He was jailed under a $2,500 bail. Three days later, Edna Hansen went to the courthouse with the bail money to get her son out of jail so he could make it to the church on time.
That evening, Robert married the chiropractor's daughter in a ceremony at the Lutheran Church. The newlyweds left for a week in Florida, then returned to live in Robert's apartment. He acted as though the impending trial and conviction for very serious arson charges wasn't hanging over his head. That September, Hansen was indicted for arson.
In the meantime, the 16-year-old boy who had helped with the arson had been sent away by his family to live in Minnesota with relatives and finish out high school. In a way, he had become Robert Hansen's first victim. Considering the grand jury testimony and case against him, Hansen waived a trial and pleaded guilty. He also made a statement as to why he did what he did. I quote...
I guess I burned down the best barn because I hated the school with a divine passion. I would do whatever I could think of to get back at that monster school that did Bob Hanson a personal wrong. End quote. On the 9th of October 1961, Robert was sentenced to three years at the State Reformatory at Anamosa.
Shortly afterward, his wife divorced him, having been married less than a year. At Anamosa, Hansen was given a thorough psychiatric evaluation. After the psychiatrists had finished their evaluation, they diagnosed Hansen as having an infantile personality. This was based on Robert's description of fantasies of revenge and destruction.
During evaluation, Hansen revealed he imagined doing vicious things to girls who'd rejected or made fun of him, and he talked about wanting to blow up the town water tower and shoot out the lights of the town police car. Getting even seemed to be his obsession. Eventually, Hansen concluded that his openness with these psychiatrists had hurt him.
Not being very intelligent, he thought that a state-ordered psychiatric evaluation was to be kept private and not used against him. But he found out the hard way that everything he confessed to the psychiatrists were thrown back at him during parole hearings. The result was that he missed his first chance of parole.
Robert felt the authorities hadn't played the game fair, so he became determined never to let the state trick him again. He formulated a strategy he would use in the future if he got caught in a serious violation of the law. He would tell authorities that there were times when he couldn't remember his actions. That way, there was a chance that he wouldn't be held responsible.
While locked up, he quickly learned to play the system and make the best of his confinement at the reformatory. He went to work for one of the staff councillors. His job consisted of typing and filing records. He also wrote letters for inmates who couldn't read or write.
After taking a Moody Bible Institute correspondence course, he began giving religious counseling to other inmates, which was viewed very favorably by the authorities at the time. The counselor he worked for arranged some speech therapy for Hansen at the nearby University of Iowa, and his speech gradually improved.
In late 1962, another psychiatric workup was done on Hansen, and it stated that while he still had an infantile personality, his antisocial attitudes had diminished. This report, coupled with his record of good conduct, earned him a parole on the 1st of May 1963.
Christian Hansen was deeply ashamed that his son was a convicted criminal. Everyone in town knew what had happened, and as we say in Norway, the village beast was showing its nastiest teeth in the form of relentless backbiting and a vicious rumour mill.
He determined that him and his family needed to get away, and thus a few months after his son's release, he purchased the idyllic Stony Point Resort on Leech Lake in northern Minnesota. The Hanson's Resort was located in the Chippewa National Forest, on a peninsula on the southwest side of the 110,000-acre lake.
People came to Stony Point to fish, Leach being one of the best game fish lakes in the United States. The resort's pamphlet promised a variety of fish, walleyes, musky, northern, bass, and jumbo perch, and the lake would usually deliver.
When Robert was released from Anamosa, he took his parole in Minnesota and went to work at his parents' resort, spending the first weeks helping paint the boats and cabins and putting out the docks. When the season began, he guided fishing parties. He liked his new wilderness environment, and that summer he met his second wife. She was one of the girls his folks had hired to clean the cabins.
Her name was Gloria Deacon, and her family had moved to Pocahontas in 1960, when she was a junior in high school. Being almost 5'11", she promptly made the girls' basketball team, as well as the softball team. She participated in a lot of extracurricular activities, did well in high school, and was attending the University of Iowa.
She came to Stony Point that summer to earn some money for her sophomore year. Robert and Gloria saw a lot of each other at the resort. When he proposed at the end of the summer, she said yes. They planned to marry when she finished college. Gloria went back to Iowa University that fall.
Robert completed a three-and-a-half-week short course at the Wilton School of Cake Decorating in Chicago, then returned to his parents' resort. For a while, the couple wrote to each other, and Robert made the long drive down to Iowa City to see her a few times.
Their original plan was for Gloria to complete her degree at the University of Minnesota and he would get a job in Minneapolis. But a friend of Robert's parents was staying at the resort and he let it be known that his brother had a bakery in Minot, North Dakota, that he was having problems with and that his brother needed a baker to run it. Christian Hansen volunteered his son for the job.
Robert grudgingly took the job. After he had been working in Minot for a month, he and Gloria got married. The newlyweds' stay in Minot would turn out to be a short one. Robert only lasted in the new bakery job for about two months before the couple moved back to the Hansons' Stony Point resort.
I have tried to gleam some info why Robert didn't last in his bakery job in Minot, but unfortunately came up short. The couple was far from rich, and they had no means to start up their own bakery business, so Robert had to get another job, this time at the Cox Bakeries in Moorhead, Minnesota.
Robert was supposed to rotate among the bakery chain's 32 shops scattered throughout the Midwest, filling in for the regular managers while they took their vacations. His first assignment was a two-week stint in Rapid City, South Dakota. Hansen faced what many young men starting a new marriage and job do, having to travel and be away from home a lot.
When he got back from Rapid City, he and Gloria decided they didn't like the situation and would go back to their original plan and move to Minneapolis. After having bounced around for several months, the couple now stayed in one spot for a while for the first time. They lived at the Collins Trailer Park on East 78th Street in the suburb of Bloomington.
Gloria attended the University of Minnesota, and Robert worked at the Meir Bakery in uptown Minneapolis. Robert was hired as a foreman and cake decorator. His employer found him to be an excellent worker, though sometimes he blew his top at people working under his supervision. He was always polite to his boss, however, as he was to anyone who held authority over him.
If his polite behavior towards his superiors mirrored his inner thoughts and feelings, however, that is quite another issue. It turned out that behind the facade of the quiet and diligent worker, there was a thief. Robert was hiding all sorts of radios, small appliances and sporting goods around the shop.
All his co-workers figured it was stolen merchandise, since Hansen's wife was religious and a good woman. They supposed Robert was hiding the stuff at the bakery because there was no way for him to conceal it in his small trailer, where his wife would find it and know what he was up to. Once, one of the baker's employees took his boss outside to have a look in Hansen's cart.
In the back seat were two bicycles' padlocks, still on the wheels. Apparently, Robert had stolen them on the way to work in the morning darkness. None of them reported this to the police, as they felt it was none of their business. In any case, it turned out they did not have to, because on the 22nd of February 1965,
A Bloomington policeman arrested Robert Hansen for stealing some fish line and lures worth eleven dollars from a sporting goods store. Not wanting his wife to find out, Robert called his employer to bail him out. She did find out, however, but being a dutiful wife, Gloria Hansen persuaded their Lutheran pastor to vouch for Bob, and the charges were thus dropped.
As we say in Norway, and here is a brief Norwegian phrase, Utak er verdenslönn. Directly translated, it means ingratitude is the wages of the world. Instead of thanking his employer, who had backed him up and bailed him out, Robert had other plans.
A couple of months after his arrest, Robert's employer came into the shop early and found his foreman had broken into the office by using a knife on the lock. He surprised Hansen as he was rifling the desk drawer where the cash for change was kept. Surprisingly, Robert's boss didn't call the police or press charges. He simply told Robert to find work elsewhere and left the matter at that.
Apparently, there was a great demand for qualified bakers back in the 60s in the US Midwest because Robert managed to quickly get another job at Northside Bakery in the same city. I doubt he got a letter of reference from his previous employer. His arrest and being caught red-handed did not slow Robert Hansen down.
May in the same year, he was again arrested, this time for stealing a softball, and he was let off with a fine. Apparently, Robert got a big thrill out of stealing, and often bragged to co-workers about it. In the spring of 1967, his wife Gloria was nearing the date for her graduation from university, and the couple thought it was time to move on.
It might be that the couple simply didn't like city living, but it might also be that Robert's repeated thievery was beginning to take a toll. The couple did share a love for the outdoors and the wilderness they had experienced surrounding Leech Lake. They knew they wanted proper wilderness with wide open spaces, but they did not want to live in Minnesota anymore.
And so it was, they decided to take a chance and uproot properly by moving to the great state of Alaska. They decided to drive the whole way and took ample breaks along the way, treating their trip as a holiday. In mid-August, the couple arrived in Anchorage, ready to begin their new life.
I don't know.
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and the couple had thus no trouble finding employment in a job market hungry for persons with a trade or degree. Robert went to work as a baker and cake decorator for the Safeway Bakery at 9th and Gamble, and Gloria got a job teaching on Government Hill. They rented an apartment by the Safeway, then another on Dawson Street.
After a year of renting, motivated by the income tax bite on a dual income, they bought a duplex on 6th Avenue in South Mountain View, where they lived in one half and rented out the other. Mrs. Hansen became active in the Lutheran Central Church, and she and Robert went hiking, camping, climbing, and fishing together.
Robert threw himself into archery and bow hunting and joined the Black Sheep Bowmen and the Alaska Archery Association.
In 1969, Hansen got into the Pope and Young record book twice, shooting a fourth-ranked mountain goat on the Kenai Peninsula and bringing down a 33rd-ranked barren ground caribou along the Taion River. In 1970, he bagged a dull sheep that ranked third. When the trophy was assessed for the Pope and Young record book,
Robert met John Sumrall, who was there to witness the measurements, and the two became friends and hunting buddies. The following year, 1970, was eventful for both Robert and Gloria, as they prepared for the arrival of their first child. They sold their duplex at a substantial profit and moved a few blocks north to a larger house on Thomas Circle.
and Robert took a second job at another bakery. Robert Hansen's first child was a girl, and her baptism at Lutheran Central Church, family friend Gerald Goldsmith was a sponsor. With the pregnancy and parenthood, the Hansens began to go their separate ways, no longer going on wilderness outings together. As a couple, however, they continued to participate in church and social functions.
In 1971, Robert brought down the biggest doll sheep ever, taken by a bow. Controversy surrounded the world's record kill, including allegations that the sheep was taken in an area close to hunting, and another that it was killed with the help of a firearm.
But Hansen signed the Pope and Young Fair Chase Affidavit, wherein he swore no firearm was used and John Summerall vouched to the kill. Hansen also bagged the second-ranked barren ground caribou that year. But the 1970-71 recording period would be the last time he would enter a record into Pope and Young.
Robert Hansen had found that there was other prey far more to his liking. Some call it the most dangerous prey of all, human. Imagine if you will, dear listener, the 15th of November, 1971.
The beautiful young woman named Susan Marie Hepard, known to Susie to her friends, had spent a hectic Sunday taking calls at her reception desk at an Anchorage realty office. She was eighteen years old, and it was her first job. Happy it was now Monday, her day off, she'd spent the morning shopping and was driving home to relax.
On Northern Lights Boulevard, she stopped at a red light, and in a casual pan, her eyes met those of a man in a car next to her. The man was staring at her, and being a happy and trusting girl, she gave him a reflex smile. The light changed, and she drove home to an apartment she shared with two roommates in the Spenard section of Anchorage.
After trudging up two flights of stairs with her shopping bags and entering her apartment, Hepha decided to shower before unpacking her purchases. Just as she was about to step under a soothing spray of warm water, there was a knock at the door. She grabbed a towel and went to answer it. Opening the door, she was confronted by the man she'd seen in the car next to her at the stoplight.
Beneath a fluorescent orange cap, two eyes gawked through a pair of glasses at the woman who was holding a towel in front of her naked body. At the stoplight, Robert Hanson had taken her smile as approval, an invitation, if you will. He pretended he was trying to find someone in the apartment complex. He said to her, and I quote,
"'Ah, well, maybe I could see your phone book a second.' It was on the table by the door, and Hepburn let him look. Hansen stayed with his charade and said the person was probably unlisted. He then tried to start a conversation. He told the young woman he was new in Anchorage, didn't know many people, and asked if she would like to go out with him on a date.
Susie declined his offer, telling him she was engaged. Hansen only glared at her and then left. His clumsy, casual approach hadn't worked. The following Monday, Hepburn left her apartment at 5.15 a.m. to drive some friends to work. She dropped them off, then drove back home, unaware that someone was waiting in the darkness.
As her car's headlight beams swept across the yard when she turned into the driveway, Susie saw a man in an orange cap hurry behind a neighboring building. She parked her car in the carport and got out. Suddenly, the man in the orange cap stepped in front of her and pointed a gun in her face. He snarled at her. "'Shut up, sweetheart, or I'll blow your brains out.'
Hepburn didn't shut up. She screamed. Her assailant cocked the revolver and scowled, Scream again and I'll blow your head off. Susie's roommate, Susan Scott, was in a back bedroom ironing a blouse when she heard a scream outside. She hurried into the living room and looked out the window. She saw a man standing with her roommate in the lighted area at the base of the stairway.
and it looked like the man might be holding a gun. Anxiously, Scott opened the door and called down, asking Susie if she was all right. Terrified of having her brains blown out, Susie was not saying anything. Getting no reply, Scott quickly closed the door and telephoned the police.
While she was on the phone, a sleepy Frances Lake joined her by the front window, asking what was going on. After she was finished calling the police, Susan told Frances that their roommate was perhaps about to be raped by some guy outside. They could both see outside that the man was holding a gun to Susie's head.
The guy was wearing a bulky green army jacket over a plaid shirt, and his orange cap covered what appeared to be blonde hair. Lake, scared and angry, stuck her head out the door and yelled, and I quote, "'Suzy, get away from that jerk! We've called the police!' end quote. The man pushed a gun into Hepburn's back and walked her toward the street."
Suddenly, he stopped, looked around in an apprehensive manner, and walked off into the darkness by himself. Hearing an approaching siren, Lake began flicking a switch to flash the outside light over their apartment door. Anchorage Police Department officers Greg Frank and Archie Hutchinson were answering the call from dispatch concerning possible rape in progress with a weapon involved.
They had pushed it with lights and sirens, and as they sped up to 3608 Lois Drive, they could see a bulb flashing on the third floor. Hepburn saw the officers scrambled out of their patrol car with guns drawn. Her feeling of relief turned back to fear of being shot, and she dropped to the ground shrieking, and again I quote, ''He said he was going to blow my head off.'' End quote.
The police immediately started combing the area around the apartment building, and a backup unit that included patrolman William Dennis arrived to join the search. Young Miss Hepard was understandably terrified and nearly in shock from the experience. She was laying on the ground, her face burrowed in the snowbank, trembling, and she was confident there was not going to be any shooting. She got up and ran to her apartment.
Still shaking, Susie Hepper told the policeman about the gun and the threats. She relayed how the man had said they were going someplace they could be alone, but when he heard the sirens, he had left her. And this little nugget of information is quite crucial to the Hansen case.
We know from his later modus operandi that he preferred to kidnap prostitutes and take them home, where he would subject them to torture, rape, and some he murdered. But I find the possibility that he started his killing career this way puzzling. He obviously intended to kidnap this high-risk, high-profile young woman and take her home for torture, rape, and murder.
This is late-stage behavior, if one is to compare this case to other well-known serial killer cases. Most serial killers start out by fantasy. Then gradually they develop their methods, moving from random assault to finally a bona fide murder.
For Hansen to be so organized in his behavior, waiting until dark, stalking his prey, waiting in the shadows for her to come home, getting a handgun and having a plan for her abduction, it beggars belief. After getting a description of the suspect and his attire, Officer Hutchinson hurried out and gave the information to Patrolman Dennis and the other officers, and the search began.
At seven a.m., Hutchinson spotted a man walking through the snow and darkness in plaid shirt sleeves. Cautiously approaching in his squad car, he could see the man was wearing glasses. The officer called out for the man to halt. Hansen identified himself, told Hutchinson he'd been driving and felt woozy, so he'd pulled over and started walking to get some fresh air.
Back at the apartment complex, Hepard looked through the window and saw Hansen slouching in the back seat of the squad car. She immediately yelled out that that was the guy who had attacked her. Another patrol car pulled up. Hansen's vehicle had been located and a loaded .22 caliber pistol had been found under the driver's seat.
Another officer had found an orange cap in the snow and a .357 Magnum revolver on the top of a tire in the rear wheel well of an abandoned Chevy. At 8 a.m., Hansen was interviewed at Alaska Police District Headquarters.
He told officers he had planned to go out by the Anchorage International Airport that morning to hunt moose with a bow, but he needed to get a permit at the Fish and Game office first. Since it had been too early for the office to be open, he'd ended up driving around the Spenard area to kill time. The orange cap and .357 Magnum were shown to the suspect.
and he acknowledged their similarity to the ones he owned. Hansen repeated what he'd told officers at the scene, that he'd felt woozy and had a blackout of memory. Finally, he admitted he could have been involved in the incident that Hepburn described, but he had no memory of it. "'If I was, I need help,' he said."
At police headquarters, Hepard and her roommates individually viewed a seven-man lineup, and each identified number four, Robert Hansen, as Susie's assailant. A sample of Hansen's hair, his boots, orange cap, and a .357 Magnum revolver were sent to the FBI for testing, and Robert was booked for assault with a deadly weapon. On the 2nd of December...
A preliminary hearing on the charge was held in Superior Court. Five witnesses testified, two police officers, Susie Hepwood and her former roommates. The trio of girls who had enjoyed each other's company was by now split up. Frances had moved to West 16th Street and Susan Scott had moved to North Clevin Street.
Defense attorney James Gilmore requested to submit an order that his client be examined at the Langdon Psychiatric Clinic and that he be released on his own recognizance. The prosecutor objected, saying since the defendant had threatened the life of Susan Hepard, bail should be set at $2,000.
Gilmore countered, pointing out Hansen was in the eighth year of a marriage, had a child, and owned property in Anchorage, and as such fit the profile of a well-respected man. Robert was released on his own recognizance, with the condition he have no contact whatsoever with Susan Hepburn. That stipulation did very little to allay Susie's fears.
Two weeks later, a grand jury charged Hansen with assault with a deadly weapon. A court order was entered that he be examined by psychiatrist Dr. Ray Langdon. The defendant's release would continue under these same stipulations, and proceedings in the case were scheduled to resume in January.
Hansen went to see Dr. Langdon at four that afternoon, quite pleased with how the case proceeded, and determined not to make the same mistakes he did last time he was evaluated by a psychiatrist. He was prepared to lie through his teeth.
I don't know.
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And with that, we come to the end of part three of the saga of Robert Hansen, the Butcher Baker.
I hope you enjoyed listening to me telling it to you. Next episode, number 136 in number, will delve even further into the mayhem and darkness that defined Hansen's criminal activities. So, as they say in the land of radio, stay tuned. Finally, I wish to thank you, dear listener, for listening.
If you like this podcast, you can support it by donating on patreon.com slash theserialkillerpodcast, by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, facebook.com slash theskpodcast, or by posting on the subreddit theskpodcast. Thank you. Good night and good luck.