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I am your Norwegian host, Tamas Roseland Weyborg Thun. Last episode, I left you just as Robert Hansen was getting his teeth wet in New York and the East Coast, using the services of prostitutes. I believe, dear listener, that the background of serial killers is absolutely essential if we are to understand the darkness they dwell in.
Tonight, I therefore consult academia and the professionals to gain a deeper understanding of what made Robert Hansen end up as the Butcher Baker. Enjoy. As always, I want to publicly thank my elite TSK Producers Club.
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Comment on the AMA post on patreon.com slash the serial killer podcast and I promise to answer any question. So don't miss out and join now. What is a serial killer? Dear listener...
I have briefly touched upon the question regarding defining what I mean when I say serial killer in earlier episodes, but I have not devoted much time to it, because the term is something that immediately conjures up very specific images and connotations in the minds of people when brought up.
And yet, serial killers are very varied. Some kill a lot of people. Some kill only a couple. Some kill only men. Some kill only women. Some only children. Some strangle their victims to death. Others shoot them. Others, again, use a variety of killing instruments. They come in all creeds and all shapes and colors from all the populated continents on earth.
And yet, especially here in the West, the typical image conjured up when talking about serial killers is that of the charming male psychopath, the Ted Bundy variety, the ones who prey upon women, often killing while inflicting as much suffering as they can, reveling in the pain they cause.
The term serial killer, if looked at simply as someone who kills more than one person over a period of time, can encompass too wide a group of criminals. A gang member in the inner city of Philadelphia who kills a rival gang member by stabbing him in the throat one week and a year later kills another in a drive-by shooting is by such a definition a serial killer.
But you, dear listener, knows as well as I that those killers are not the ones I dedicate much time on here on the Serial Killer Podcast. So, we must delve further down into the darkness.
Although serial murder is not a uniquely American phenomenon, the USA have been in the forefront when it comes to defining the investigative methods best suited to catch these notorious predators.
Although today's investigators use modern cutting-edge methods, such as DNA and profiling, all the methods date back to the groundbreaking work by Richard von Kraft-Ebing, named Psychopathia Sexualis, published in 1886.
It was here that many of the terms we all know intimately in our 21st century was first coined, and it caused massive controversy at the time. The book is perhaps most commonly known for defining homosexuality in very bigoted ways. It claimed homosexuality was a mental disease,
But its most lasting legacy is its emphasis on deviant sexual psychopathy. Kraft-Ebing never mentions the term serial killer, but he covers several cases that today would be termed serial killer cases. A key concept is what Kraft-Ebing coined perversion of the sexual instinct.
It is remarkably apt for describing what occurs with sexual serial killers, such as our subject Robert Hansen. I quote, I dare psychologically and psychologically
as accompanied by feelings of disgust, give rise to pleasurable sexual feelings, and the abnormal association finds expression in passionate, uncontrollable emotion. The practical results are perverse acts.
This is more easily the case if the pleasurable feelings increased to passionate intensity inhibit any opposing ideas with corresponding feelings of disgust, or the influence of such opposing concepts may be impossible on account of the absence or loss of all ideas of morality, aesthetics, and law.
This loss, however, is only too frequently found where the spring of ethical ideas and feelings has been poisoned from the beginning. To put this in more modern English, sexual psychopaths are more likely to become such if they are abused or experience deviant trauma in their childhood.
Robert Hansen was, as is so common with many serial killers, severely bullied in school and was humiliated and shunned by girls due to his speech impediment and unattractive feature.
Combined with this was an extremely strict upbringing in a deeply fundamentalist religious household, where any talk or mere hint of sexuality would result in physical punishment. As I've stated several times, not all psychopaths are serial killers, but most serial killers are psychopaths.
Robert Hansen, a bona fide psychopath, could perhaps have ended up living a seemingly normal life devoid of crime if he had not experienced trauma and abuse as a child and youth. But he did, and the results were devastating. Many serial killers through history has never been caught, and many, such as Robert Hansen,
operated for years and years without being caught. Much of the general public's knowledge concerning serial murder is a product of Hollywood productions. Storylines are created to heighten the interest of audiences, rather than to accurately portray serial murder.
By focusing on the atrocities inflicted on victims by quote-unquote deranged offenders, the public is captivated by the criminals and their crimes. This only lends more confusion to the true dynamics of serial murder. Law enforcement professionals are subject to the same misinformation from a different source, the use of anecdotal information.
Professionals involved in serial murder cases, such as investigators, prosecutors, and pathologists, may have limited exposure to serial murder. Their experience may be based upon a single murder series, and the factors in that case are extrapolated to other serial murders.
As a result, certain stereotypes and misconceptions take root regarding the nature of serial murder and the characteristics of serial killers. A growing trend that compounds the fallacies surrounding serial murder is the talking heads phenomenon. Given credibility by the media, these self-proclaimed authorities
profess to have an expertise in serial murder, you probably know very well what these people are like. On network television, such as CNN, they are relentlessly touted as quote-unquote experts, and they prattle on and on about the motive for the murder and the characteristics of the possible offender without being privy to any of the facts of the investigation.
Unfortunately, inappropriate comments may perpetuate misperceptions concerning serial murder and impair law enforcement's investigative efforts.
The FBI have, based on their vast experience over the years dedicated to catching serial killers, created a very interesting list of typical myths that serve as obstacles when investigating serial murder. These seven serial killer myths are as follow. Myth 1. Serial killers are all dysfunctional loners.
The majority of serial killers are not reclusive social misfits who live alone. They are not monsters and may not appear strange. Many serial killers hide in plain sight within their communities. Serial murderers often have families and homes, are gainfully employed, and appear to be normal members of the community. Because many serial murderers can blend in so effortlessly,
They are oftentimes overlooked by law enforcement and the public. Robert Yates killed 17 prostitutes in the Spokane, Washington area during the 1990s. He was married with five children, lived in a middle-class neighborhood, and was a decorated U.S. Army National Guard helicopter pilot.
During the time period of the murders, Yates routinely patronized prostitutes, and several of his victims knew each other. Yates buried one of his victims in his yard, beneath his bedroom window. Remember to stay tuned to this podcast for a dedicated expose of his life and crimes.
The Green River Killer, Gary Ridgeway, confessed to killing 48 women and is suspected to have killed as many as 79 over a 20-year time period in the Seattle, Washington area. He had been married three times and was still married at the time of his arrest.
He was employed as a truck painter for 32 years. He attended church regularly, read the Bible at home and at work, and talked about religion with co-workers. Ridgeway also frequently picked up prostitutes and had sex with them throughout the time period in which he was killing. Ridgeway, too, will be covered on this podcast. Rest assured.
The BTK killer, one of the first serial killers covered on this podcast, Dennis Rader, killed 10 victims in and around Wichita, Kansas. He sent 16 written communications to the news media over a 30-year period, taunting the police and the public.
He was married with two children, was a Boy Scout leader, served honorably in the U.S. Air Force, was employed as a local government official, and was president of his church. Myth 2. Serial killers are all white males.
Contrary to popular belief, serial killers span all racial groups. There are white, African American, Hispanic, and Asian serial killers. The racial diversification of serial killers generally mirrors that of the overall world population.
Charles Ng, as you might recall from a previous episode, was a native of Hong Kong, China. He killed numerous victims in Northern California in concert with Robert Lake. Derek Todd Lee, an African-American, killed at least six women in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Carl Eugene Watts, an African-American,
killed five victims in Michigan, fled the state to avoid detection, and murdered another 12 victims in Texas before being apprehended. Rafael Resendez Ramirez, a native of Mexico, murdered nine people in Kentucky, Texas, and Illinois before turning himself in.
Rory Cond, a Colombian native, was responsible for six prostitute homicides in the Miami, Florida area. Myth 3. Serial killers are only motivated by sex. All serial murderers are not sexually based. There are many other motivations for serial murders, including anger, thrill, financial gain, and attention-seeking.
In the Washington, D.C. area serial sniper case, John Allen Muhammad, a former U.S. Army staff sergeant, and Lee Boyd Malvo killed primarily for anger and thrill motivations. They were able to terrorize the greater Washington, D.C. metro area for three weeks, shooting 13 victims, killing 10 of them.
They communicated with the police by leaving notes, and they attempted to extort money to stop the shootings. They are suspected in a number of other shootings in seven other states. Dr. Michael Schwango, a former U.S. Marine, ambulance worker, and physician, was a healthcare employee.
He was convicted of only four murders in New York and Ohio, although he is suspected of having poisoned and killed 35 to 50 people throughout the United States and on the continent of Africa. Swango's motivation for the killings was intrinsic and never fully identified.
Interestingly, Swango kept a scrapbook filled with newspaper and magazine clippings about natural disasters in which many people were killed. Paul Reed killed at least seven people during fast food restaurant robberies in Tennessee. After gaining control of the victims, he either stabbed or shot them. The motivation for the murder was primarily witness elimination.
Reed's purpose in committing the robberies was financial gain, and some of the ill-gotten gains were used to purchase a car. Myth 4 All serial murderers travel and operate interstate. Most serial killers have very defined geographic areas of operation. They conduct their killings within comfort zones that are often defined by an anchor point.
By anchor point, I mean place of residence, employment, or residence of a relative. Serial murderers will, at doims, spiral their activities outside of their comfort zone when their confidence has grown through experience or to avoid detection. Very few serial murderers travel interstate to kill.
The few serial killers who do travel interstate to kill fall into a few categories. Itinerant individuals who move from place to place, homeless individuals who are transients, individuals whose employment lends itself to interstate or transnational travel, such as truck drivers or those in military service.
The difference between these types of offenders and other serial murderers is the nature of their traveling lifestyle, which provides them with many zones of comfort in which to operate. Myth 5. Serial killers cannot stop killing. It has been widely believed that once serial killers start killing, they cannot stop.
There are, however, some serial killers who stop murdering altogether before being caught. In these instances, there are events or circumstances in offenders' lives that inhibit them from pursuing more victims. These can include increased participation in family activities, sexual substitution, and other diversions.
BTK killer Dennis Rader murdered 10 victims, as I previously said. He did not kill any other victims prior to being captured in 2005, that we know about. During interviews conducted by law enforcement, Rader admitted to engaging in auto-erotic activities as a substitute for his killings.
Jeffrey Gorton killed his first victim in 1986 and his next victim in 1991. He did not kill another victim and was captured in 2002. Gorton engaged in cross-dressing and masturbatory activities as well as consensual sex with his wife in the interim.
Myth 6: All serial killers are insane or evil geniuses. Another myth that exists is that serial killers have either a debilitating mental condition or they are extremely clever and intelligent. As a group, serial killers suffer from a variety of personality disorders, including psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, and others.
Most, however, are not adjudicated as insane under the law. The media has created a number of fictional serial killer geniuses who outsmart law enforcement at every turn. Like other populations, however, serial killers range in intelligence from borderline to above average levels. Myth 7. Serial Killers Want to Get Caught
Offenders committing a crime for the first time are inexperienced. They gain experience and confidence with each new offense, eventually succeeding with few mistakes or problems.
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$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes. See details. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. As a family man with three kids, I know firsthand how extremely difficult it is to make time for self-care. But it's good to have some things that are non-negotiable.
For some, that could be a night out with the boys, chugging beers and having a laugh. For others, it might be an eating night. For me, one non-negotiable activity is researching psychopathic serial killers and making this podcast. Even when we know what makes us happy, it's often near impossible to make time for it.
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Never skip therapy day with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash serialkiller today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash serialkiller. While most serial killers plan their offenses more thoroughly than other criminals, the learning curve is still very steep.
They must select, target, approach, control, and dispose of their victims. The logistics involved in committing a murder and disposing of the body can become very complex, especially when there are multiple sites involved. As serial killers continue to offend without being captured, they can become empowered, feeling they will never be identified.
As the series continues, the killers may begin to take shortcuts when committing their crimes. This often causes the killers to take more chances, leading to identification by law enforcement. It is not that serial killers want to get caught. They feel that they can't get caught.
So, let us thus look at how Robert Hansen fits in with these seven serial killer myths. The reason Hansen is such a serial killer superstar is perhaps because he fits several of the seven myths quite well. He could be viewed as somewhat of a loner, as he loved hunting on his own in the great Alaskan outdoors and never had a great social life.
but he had many hunting buddies and was married not once but twice. He also had two children of his own. He was very white and male. He was motivated by sex, although deviant sadistic sex at that. He did not operate outside of Alaska, at least, as far as we know. He did indeed seem to be unable to stop killing, not stopping until he got caught.
He was not clinically insane, and he was not particularly intelligent. He was crafty, however, and knew very well what to do in order to avoid detection and capture. He did not communicate with the outside world about his crimes, and wanted no media attention after capture. He did his utmost not to be caught.
As you can probably tell, defining a serial killer is not just straightforward. In the past 30 years, multiple definitions of serial murder have been used by law enforcement, clinicians, academia and researchers.
While these definitions do share several common themes, they differ on specific requirements, such as the number of murders involved, the types of motivation, and the temporal aspects of the murders. Previous definitions of serial murder also specified a certain number of murders, varying from two to ten victims.
This quantitative requirement distinguished a serial murder from other categories of murder, i.e. single, double, or triple murder. Most of the definitions also required a period of time between the murders. This breaking time was necessary to distinguish between a mass murder and a serial murder.
Serial murder required a temporal separation between the different murders, which was described as separate occasions, cooling-off period, and emotional cooling-off period. Generally, mass murder was described as a number of murders, four or more, occurring during the same incident, with no distinctive time period between the murders.
These events typically involve a single location where the killer murdered a number of victims in an ongoing incident. A typical example of this is the Las Vegas mass shooting on the 1st of October 2017, where Stephen Craig Paddock shot and killed 60 human beings with an automatic firearm from his hotel window.
There has been at least one attempt to formalize a definition of serial murder through legislation. In 1998, a federal law was passed by the United States Congress titled Protection of Children from Sexual Predator Act of 1998, Title 18, United States Code, Chapter 51 and Section 1111.
This law includes a definition of serial killings, and I quote, The term serial killings means a series of three or more killings, not less than one of which was committed within the United States, having common characteristics such as to suggest the reasonable possibility that the crimes were committed by the same actor or actors. End quote.
Although the federal law provides a definition of serial murder, it is limited in its application. The purpose of this definition was to set forth criteria establishing when the FBI could assist local law enforcement agencies with their investigation of serial murder cases. It was not intended to be a generic definition for serial murder.
Also, there is the added complexity of differentiating between spree killers and serial killers. The general definition of spree murder is two or more murders committed by an offender or offenders without a cooling-off period.
According to the definition, a lack of a cooling-off period marks the difference between a spree murder and a serial murder. A good example of a spree killer is Gabriel Wirtman, who on the 18th and 19th of April 2020 committed multiple shootings and set fires at 16 locations in the Canadian province of Nova Scotia.
He killed 22 people and injured three others before he was shot and killed by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Enfield. Although there was a period between each murder, in this case up to a day, there was no cooling-off period between each murder.
In order for a definition of serial murder to be useful to both law enforcement and academia, the FBI held a symposium dedicated to the topic and they agreed on the following definition of serial murder. I quote, The unlawful killing of two or more victims by the same offenders in separate events. End quote.
Using the term event makes sure that mass and spree killers, which kill in a single ongoing event, are separated from serial killers. Reducing the number of kills from three to two makes sure that serial killers, and forgive me for perhaps appearing flippant, in the early days of their killing careers are identified as such early on.
The Serial Killer Podcast has always been dedicated to the serial killer phenomenon, how to better understand serial murder and serial killers. So this series on Robert Hansen will try to shed light on the eternal question that always arises when a killer is revealed. How and why did Robert Hansen become a serial killer?
The answer lies in the development of the individual from birth to adulthood. Specifically, the behavior a person displays is influenced by life experiences, as well as certain biological factors. Serial murderers, like all human beings, are the product of their heredity, their upbringing, and the choices they make throughout development. The reason in academia known as causality
consists of many factors, biological, social, and environmental factors to be precise. In addition to these factors, individuals have the ability to choose to engage in certain behaviors. In other words, this podcast will never state a fatalistic point of view that free will is an illusion and that Robert Hansen was simply a machine who acted according to its programming.
I may be offending some listeners by saying this, but I do believe in the importance of free will and personal responsibility. Without it, I believe humanity is lost to the deepest, darkest moral abyss, an abyss where Robert Hansen thrived. Human beings are in a constant state of development from the moment of conception until death.
Behavior is affected by stimulation received and processed by the central nervous system. Neurobiologists believe that our nervous systems are environmentally sensitive, thereby allowing individual nervous systems to be shaped throughout a lifetime.
The development of social coping mechanisms begins early in life and continues to progress as children learn to interact, negotiate, and compromise with their peers. In some individuals, the failure to develop adequate coping mechanisms results in violent behavior, as was the case with Hansen.
Neglect and abuse in childhood have been shown to contribute to an increased risk of future violence. Substance abuse can and does lead to increased aggression and violence. There are documented cases of people who suffered severe head injuries and ultimately became violent, even when there was no prior history of violence.
There is no single identifiable cause or factor that leads to the development of a serial killer. Rather, there are a multitude of factors that contribute to their development. The most significant factor is the serial killer's personal decision to choosing to pursue their crimes. Because make no mistake, becoming a serial killer is a choice.
However, some humans are more vulnerable than others to develop into a person that would make such a choice. Predisposition to serial killing, much like other violent offenses, is biological, social, and psychological in nature, and it is not limited to any specific characteristic or trait.
The development of a serial killer involves a combination of these factors, which exist together in a rare confluence in certain individuals. They have the appropriate biological predisposition, molded by their psychological makeup, which is present at a critical time in their social development.
There are no specific combinations of traits or characteristics shown to differentiate serial killers from other violent offenders. The initial identification of a homicide series is the primary investigative challenge. Historically, the first indication that a serial murderer was at work was when two or more cases were linked by forensic or behavioral evidence.
Identifying a homicide series is easier in rapidly developing high-profile cases involving low-risk victims. These cases are reported to law enforcement upon discovery of the crimes and draw immediate media attention. The most famous example of this is Ted Bundy, whose crimes became a media sensation at the time.
In contrast, identifying a series involving high-risk victims in multiple jurisdictions is much more difficult. This is primarily due to the high-risk lifestyle and transitory nature of the victims.
Additionally, the lack of communication between law enforcement agencies and differing records management systems impede the linkage of cases to a common offender. Robert Hansen is a prime example of this, as his victims typically were vulnerable prostitutes.
In the case of Robert Hansen, it would appear that law enforcement did not realize they were dealing with a serial killer until very late in the game, and I will cover in more detail how the investigation progressed later in this series. Considering what we have learned so far, especially the importance of causality and its many factors, let us again travel back in time.
In 1959, the fire department, Kiwanis and Rotary Clubs sponsored the formation of the Pocahontas Junior Police, a group to include 8th through 11th grade boys who would be trained in first aid, fire prevention, law enforcement, traffic control and firearms drill. On Thursday, the 29th of January, more than 30 youths were told about the program and sworn in.
Robert Hansen was introduced by Police Chief Marvin Wiseman as one of the men who would be serving as drill instructor.
The torques, bras, belts and white helmets created expectations for the recruits. Some of the older cadets were thinking one day ahead to Friday night when they would be heading to nearby Fort Dodge and the Larimar Ballroom to see the Big Bopper, Richie Valance, Dion and the Belmards, and Buddy Holly and the Crickets. Meanwhile, Robert had another new element in his social life.
He started dating a girl who'd graduated a year after he did. She was the daughter of the town's chiropractor, a man who had little contact with the community outside of his practice. In fact, his whole family kept to themselves, but they belonged to the same church the Hansons did. Robert's standing in society would improve in other areas as well.
When Police Chief Wiseman would make his early morning rounds doing the door checks on Main Street, the Hanson Bakery was one place he'd find someone else doing their job at that hour. Robert would be working there, in heat, that was oppressive in summer but welcome in winter.
A few times Robert took Wiseman to the rear of the bakery, where he'd piled some cardboard boxes for a backstop and showed the police chief how good he was with a bow. Wiseman appreciated Robert's archery skills. They seemed to fit with the fact that Bob was his best drill instructor for the junior police. Robert's father was for once proud of his boy and decided to ease up on his workload.
He decided to hire the son of the jeweler, whose shop was a few doors down from the bakery. The boy was a quiet, blonde, crew-cut sixteen-year-old. Robert now had someone, six years his junior, whom he could lord over and try to impress. Imagine, if you will, D'Alissana, a typical Midwestern all-American town.
It's Wednesday, and a local Catholic school gym is full of high chair. There is a basketball game going on, and the school is closed the next day due to it being a Catholic holiday. The youths in attendance are very happy, and their glee is contagious to the adults also in attendance. Outside, local police chief Marvin Wiseman drive past both the school and a nearby bus garage.
which also serves as the garage for the school bus. Considering the school parking lot is brimming with cars due to the basketball game, he makes extra sure no cars are blocking the bus garage's driveway. Then he drives away to the local diner to get his hot coffee and donut.
A few minutes after the police chief leaves, the vocational agriculture teacher Ron Walker drove into the driveway and parked between the bus barn and the school. In his office, he put on a pot of coffee for his students and was going to attend his evening class for adults. As the coffee was almost ready, Walker glanced out and saw in the darkening light outside a swirl of grey smoke.
rising outside his office window. It was a clear evening, so there shouldn't be any fog. Slightly concerned, he decided to go outside to check. There he saw thick smoke flowing out of the bus garage and a dim, ominous red light through its windows. Within minutes, the local volunteer fire brigade was on the scene, trying to salvage what they could.
With the north part of the building engulfed in flames, firemen decided there was still a possibility of saving the buses parked in the south stalls. As fireman Dutch Leonard drove through the flames and into the clear, its gas tank exploded, throwing him from the vehicle with cuts and burns.
school custodian earl joachim saw what happened to leonard but he stayed at his task and got into another bus when he got it out and parked at a safe distance he leaned on the steering wheel and contemplated the smoke and flames
It gnawed his gut to know they were consuming athletic equipment, desks, stage props from the class place, tools, and it looked as though several buses would be destroyed. On the south side of the barn, holding one of the hoses directed toward the fire, was volunteer fireman Robert Hansen. No one could see through the dark evening and the smoke and the flames.
But he was smiling.
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And with that, we come to the end of part two of the saga of Robert Hansen, the Butcher Baker. I hope you enjoyed listening to me telling it to you. Next episode, number 135 in number, will continue on his twilight road into the abyss. So as they say in the land of radio, stay tuned. Finally, I wish to thank you, dear listener, for listening.
If you like this podcast, you can support it by donating on patreon.com slash theserialkillerpodcast, by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, facebook.com slash theskpodcast, or by posting on the subreddit theskpodcast. Thank you. Good night and good luck.