‘Searching for Bobby Fischer’ With Bill Simmons, Van Lathan, and Charles Holmes
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On the ringer verse, both of them are here. Yeah. You've been on this pod, Charles, but not with me. This is the first time it's been the three of us. I get to LA, you wasted no time. You're like, let's lock in. Listen, now that you're here, you're in the rotation. I was waiting for you to get here. Here's the thing. You say that now, and then I'll start doing my Stephen A takes, and you're like, get the fuck out of here.

It's like we added a lottery pick in the draft. Charles moves here. Van continues to build numbers on me. Yeah. Have you heard about this? Have you heard about... Van's getting a crew. Oh, no. The Van contingent. You know what I mean? Her own little thing. It's kind of like the comic book world where it's like all the black heroes, you know,

They start getting together. The X-Men, Storm, Bishop. And Steve. And Steve. But I keep telling you, Selma Steve Allman. You can call him Selma Steve. You ain't see him at the cornbread function. You didn't see him at Hot Water Cornbread. Selma Steve, he's got a connection. Him and Mac Miller were cleaning up. Yep. Well, I sent Charles a list of movies that we never got around to that were anniversary movies.

And he sent back Searching for Bobby Fischer, which Van and I had talked about all year doing. We never did. And it's going to be our last movie of the year, Searching for Bobby Fischer, next year on The Rewatchables.

Now playing at select theaters.

All right, this movie came out 30 years ago. I saw it in the theater. I think it's one of my favorite movies of the last 30 years. And I don't know what... I don't really know what makes it so rewatchable for me when I know all the beats.

but it moves like a sports movie but it has heart i think it has real lessons especially now that i have kids and i'm a parent and i've gone through some of the stages when you want something sometimes even more than the kid does it's got all that stuff it's got this really cool chess plot that i've never really seen a movie until queen's gambit which i thought did a nice job with it but there's just a lot going on and i like all of it um why did you pick this

It's it comes at that VHS boom where this is something where when I'm in kindergarten, it's playing constantly when I'm in middle school. Now it's on like Cinemax and Showtime or whatever. And to your point, it's we don't they don't make these movies anymore. They don't make live action movies.

four kids movies that the drama, the acting, like the murderous role of actors who are in this. I'm like, if they were in this, is this even still a kids movie? And it just, I think I texted you. This movie like foundationally taught me something about the human experience and what it means to be an athlete versus an artist. Like that is the, I didn't even realize until rewatching it very recently. I'm like, oh, this is about

not only chess, but what does it mean to win? And when does something that you're playing become more? When does it become art? And can those two things coexist? And if you have a gift, what's your responsibility to it? Yes. That's the other theme I love. What do you love about a van?

So number one, there's a mythology to the movie and the movie starts with that mythology and it's like this quest for this American chess giant whose absence is so felt by a community, right? That they're waiting for this chess messiah to reappear.

And in that way, it's very much like a lot of the mythical type of stuff that I watch. Yeah. It's a good point. I didn't think of that. In that way, it's a lot like, hey, one day this guy's going to come back to deliver us all and everybody's waiting for him and they see it in a young child. There's a weird...

like, very accessible sort of religious thing to it. Who is going to be the literal second coming of Bobby Fischer? Why did Bobby Fischer disappear? The movie starts with this mystery. This guy came along. He was this chess phenom, which, by the way, at this point in my life, I think I was around 11 or 12 when the movie came out. It's 92, right? Yeah, 93. It's 93. So I'm like 13 when the movie comes out. I had never heard of Bobby Fischer.

So that story at the top, this guy came around, beat the Russians, just like Rocky did. I'm thinking, oh, another guy beat the Russians. We're doing good against the Russians. And beat the Russians, did all this. And then he just disappeared. I'm like, why? Why? What happened to him? And then they go back to him every single time. So the curiosity is there for that. And then it's like, can somebody else be that? And then. Well, also when the movie came out, there was still a big shadow with Fisher.

It'd be like if Jordan retired after 92, but then disappeared from the country. Did people still care, though, in 93? They did. Oh, because they kept saying Bobby Fischer in the movie, and I'm like, was he still this much of a looming figure? I mean, in the wide world of sports generation, it was like him, Muhammad Ali. He was like these 70s icons, and I felt like he, when I was growing up, he was one of the icons. And it's interesting, because I asked my parents, I was like, yo, why didn't y'all tell me about Bobby Fischer? And my dad would be like, oh, the chess dude. Yeah.

Yeah, like, well, he disappeared. It's like, it was, my dad is not like that. He's like D.B. Cooper or something. Yeah, it was like, that was a known thing that this guy had been around and he'd become world famous and then he just freaked out and left.

Something else about the movie that I picked up on this rewatch that was really interesting is that the movie is kind of in a way about the price that you have to pay for greatness. Yeah. Oh, it's, it's, I think that's the biggest theme. Right. It hits it every 20 minutes. You see somebody who's like, oh, that person went sideways. Yeah. So like in that, I think the older you get,

you start to ask yourself the question of what am I willing to sacrifice or who, better yet, who am I willing to become to be super duper great? And to watch that be discussed and negotiated by adults for a seven-year-old kid is really fascinating to look at. Even the future, though, which when you watch this movie, you're like, oh, even in

what, this movie, the story set around the 80s. But even then, there's this idea of like, even if this kid does become the next Bobby Fischer...

what's left for him. Like at one point they point and it's just like chess is not what it was in the 70s still. How much riches and wealth, like you're going to have to do this for the love and you might go insane. And I was like, oh, this is way darker than I remembered it being of like a seven-year-old. Obviously the seven-year-old is not negotiating this, but his parents being like, damn, should I just put him in Little League? He has a better chance of maybe getting a scholarship versus like,

hey, if he goes insane, like there's nothing left for him in this chess world. And honestly, watching the movie was different now because Bobby came back. Yeah. And remember that documentary was, maybe it was a 30 for 30.

But then Bobby hit some Y-mail. Bobby went Y-mail to the 29th power. I remember that one thing. There's this one great clip. Wild Wikipedia page for Bobby. Ridiculous. Bobby went. Look, there's this one clip to where Bobby had just come back, and I guess he had had a real close relationship with Dick Schaap. Yeah. And Jeremy Schaap is there.

And he's in a back and forth. He's doing a press conference. Wherever he was, he was about to play a chess match. And he had said something to Jeremy Schaap. He was mad at Dick Schaap. And he had said something to Jeremy Schaap. And, you know, Jeremy Schaap looks back at him. You guys bring the clip up. He looks back at me and he goes, you know, a lot of people think that you've completely lost your mind. And honestly...

I'm not sure that you've done very much today to make people think any differently. It's a real moment. Because by the time Bobby Fischer got back, his mind was shredded. So by the time you watch the movie now,

And you see that that could have potentially been Josh Waitzkin, who's a real person. That could have been his future. When you chase that type of genius and something that's this mentally rigorous, you go, oh, okay, well, you know, that doesn't happen to everyone. But the guy that they were- He's probably the worst case scenario. But the guy that they were searching for, like really kind of lost it all, lost his humanity in a way. I mean, he couldn't even come back to America. Right.

He was mad about this movie that they used his name and it tied into, he felt like there was, I mean, he was about as anti-Semitic as it gets, but he thought there was a Jewish conspiracy against him that Hollywood made, you know, did the movie because they were trying to make him look bad. And like he was to say he lost it. Kanye before Kanye got it. Yeah. It was pretty rough. I have more on that later. Oh, by the way, this is, we'll talk about it. This is the anti-Kobe movie. This is, this is the,

Kobe, no. Like, every time I watch this, I was thinking, this is not the Mamba mentality, baby. Oh, Josh doesn't have the Mamba mentality. I thought, I was like, he don't got the dog. Josh, bro. Josh.

Josh, this is a pro LeBron. You don't remember when Kobe offered him a draw in the 2000 finals? Right. No, Josh doesn't have the mama mentality. You know, Josh wins the Little League game and he looks over at the kids and he's sad that they're sad. I'm like, yo, man, Josh, bro. He's decent. You got to be a killer. He's decent, man. And so that whole— He's got a heart. He's got a heart. If you take that away from him, I'm like, man, bro.

Josh. How many ball players? All of them. All of them. Yeah. Trying to get Josh into the mama mentality. Kobe probably would have hated Josh. You talked about this already. I had at the very top of this doc, two best themes is the price of being truly great at something worth it. And does a parent want his kid to be great for the parent or for the kid?

And those are two universal themes that you can see. You can go on to, you can go to Pan Pacific Park this weekend, Charles. You just moved here. And you can watch all the AYSO games of the five-year-olds running around. And there's going to be two kids on that field who will be able to play soccer in college. And there's going to be parents on the sidelines as into the game and as excited and tense as you've ever seen. And these kids are five.

And that's how it goes. This is what I'm afraid of. You can pick hockey. You can pick wrestling. You can pick baseball, pick a sport. There's going to be the parents on the sidelines locked in. I was one of those parents sometimes that eventually you have to realize. Did you ever have the Josh's dad thing where it's like maybe your son or daughter,

They quit or they just didn't have the heart that day. And you were just like, man, you're scared. You have those. I'm not the only one. I think every parent has them. Your kid hits these, they're little kids. They go up and down. My daughter who still plays soccer now in college, but she had a couple moments when she was a kid where I was like, is she?

Is she going to quit right now? Like, is this like, it just, it was too much pressure. She didn't like it or she wanted to do other things. And then are you, are you dad bill or are you sports columnist podcaster? Like, no, what you learn is you have to be, I want what's best for my kid parent. Yeah. It can't be, it can't be about you. And what most parents realize that at some point during the journey and then it's good. But what you can't do is have your kid, uh,

be your proxy for all the things you didn't get to do or you weren't good enough at this or it's so much fun to watch a kid play sports. You'll sacrifice anything for it. That's where it gets dangerous. Every once in a while, like in sports, actually not every once in a while, a lot of times there's a guy that I look at and I'm like, why is that guy so good? And it's always a combination of like the physical attributes that they have and the way that they play the game. For a long time, one of those guys was Jalen Brunson. Jalen Brunson would just get buckets, right? And I'd be like, yo, is somebody going to stop him?

Like this little motherfucker is killing y'all. And everybody's going to, he's tough. He has crazy body control. He shoots it really well. He's got, I got a masterclass in why Jalen Brunson is so good last week. This video came out of Jalen Brunson and his dad when he's 13 or some odd years old and everything that he was being trained on, it wasn't necessarily even what they were doing

basketball-wise, the drill itself. He was running down full court, coming back, pulling up. He was crossing left to right, crossing right to left. It was the mentality that his father was instilling in him. His father was, of course, a basketball coach. The mentality was, you're not tired.

Keep going. Don't drop your head. Don't jog. Everything at full speed. Everything like you are the best player on the planet. Right. With total confidence. And then you see it. The question is, I wonder when I was watching it, two things. Number one, the answer about why Jalen Brunson is so good just evaporated out of my head. Then I started to wonder,

Did they like, you know, go to Six Flags and stuff? Like, you start to wonder what the cost of that is. Now, obviously, some of it has to come from the kid. Okay. Because if the kid doesn't want to do it or doesn't love it, it's never going to work. I always feel, I realized this as my daughter got older watching the whole thing.

The kid has to want it. And it has to be stuff like, like my son loves playing jazz. He's in the advanced jazz band and is in his high school. He does it on his own. Like we don't tell him like, Ben, it's time to play the bass. Like he likes playing the bass. He does it. He puts the time in. That's,

You have to have that, and then you have to have the athletic ability. And then if you have what you just laid out with Rick Brunson, then that's another weapon, right? You were given this opportunity to understand certain things that maybe Charles wouldn't have understood because he didn't have Rick Brunson as a dad. Oh, you never heard about Hurricane Holmes? Hurricane Holmes would have helped you? No. Hurricane Holmes, my wrestling career. Woo! He was Hurricane Holmes. He was the... I had heart. Is it over yet?

Oh, it's been over. It's been over. My dad was not Josh's dad. Sometimes he'd be like, man, I don't know if you got over this. Charles, you consider this a father-son movie? Because we talked about all these father-son movies when we did Bronx Tale. We forgot this movie. This is an absolute father-son movie for me. This is absolutely a father and son movie. But what I thought was hilarious is because it's based on the book that the father wrote. It has something that a lot of other sports movies don't where it's like, oh, the dad is...

basically the other protagonist and he comes out looking great. Yeah, you're right. Whereas in most sports movies, the parents are just like the mini boss before the big boss where it's just like, damn, these parents are some assholes. Like I gotta get over them. Where it's like this movie by the end, you're like, damn, this is a great father figure, which is like one thing that I'm like, we'll talk about what didn't age well, where I'm like, that's two in the next in this. Yeah, you're right. Well, one thing, it's a father-son movie, but it's also a two-parent movie because the mom...

has the two most important scenes of the movie. Yeah. Right? And in general, just as the moral compass of everything, and she's kind of lingering, even in scenes where she's not saying a lot. But when she tells the dad, like, if you try to change this kid,

taking them out. Yeah. We're leaving. That's one of my probably unanswerable questions. We'll get to it about the future of their marriage. But I have one as well. Right. It's a father-son movie and a son-uncle movie and a son-mentor movie. A two-mentor movie. Which I was a double mentor. You got

Obi-Wan Kenobi in there, which is your being Kingsley character who is basically teaching him the force. The force is basically chess. And then you got this other uncle figure, Vinny, Lawrence Fishburne's character, who seems to be more in lockstep with the mother. He wants Josh to live freely as well as be dope as chess. When they're playing chess in the park, it's this

visceral, electric, really human type of deal. He wants him to play into that a little bit more. And they're playing because they love it. Because they love it. And because they're talking their shit, it's something that they have to do. The difference between pickup basketball and playing basketball in the NBA where one is a job and one you're doing voluntarily because it's a part of your lifeblood. I like how that movie balances both of those things because ultimately he rediscovers his love for chess because he starts going to the park again.

But at the same time, he does need the Ben Kingsley part. And when he has to make the big move in the final match, it's the Ben Kingsley voice is what he hears, right? It's like, clean the board, sweep it off. What do you see? Move out the pieces. And then he finally figures it out.

But the Fishburne is kind of the sexier Chess character. Oh, yeah. Bring that fucking queen out, man. Get going. Move. Let's go. When he recognizes that the guy is like the Chess Grandmaster and he starts talking shit to him and the first thing you see, oh, man.

okay good it's like whenever a guy from the NBA or from college comes on the court and somebody just rolls the ball at him what you got motherfucker and he starts going even harder Fishburne is great in the three scenes that they give him so like that is very very human Charles you gonna say that so I need to know and I don't want to poison the well I love this movie with all of my heart but this is the first time because I had to watch it and really pay attention where I'm like okay I've looked up everybody who's been in this movie and they are all real people

Is Vinny a real person? Because he is. He is? No, he's not. That's the way, 92. He's an amalgam of three. He's a composite. He's an amalgam of three different people. That's what I was going to ask. But the name is the same, yeah. But were they all black people? Yes. They were? Yeah. Okay, this makes me feel way better because I was like, I was just like. So it was three park regulars, all black. Vinny Livermore, who died of AIDS in 92. Poe McClinton, who was like, they described him as a street smart hustler.

And then Jerry, who was an old man who had a lot of stories about what it was like back in the day. And they just took all three of those three and turned them into Trey. This makes me feel so much better because when I was researching, I'm like, if this magical Negro is not real, this is one of the most egregious characters ever. Sometimes I wonder if here on the Rewatchables, you guys would have the balls to include a magical Negro category.

There's not enough movies that have it. Are you fucking out of your mind? Would you want to do the, you want a Bagger Vance category? The Legend of Bagger Vance category? Like Green Book, Bagger Vance, Driving Miss Daisy, Green Mile. Under Siege didn't have one. It didn't even have black people in it. We just did that one. Wait, wait, wait. Were there any black people in Under Siege? Maybe one guy. Who? Bernie Casey. Bernie Casey's in Under Siege. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

By the way, that Magical Negro movie that's coming out pretty soon is going to set the culture on fire. That one's not going to go over where it got. Can I say I wanted, I had this as the hottest take, but I'll just do it now. My Stephen A. Smith hottest take. I wanted more. I feel like we're two Fishburne scenes late.

I thought this was the weak link of the movie. Every time he's in, he's with Josh, I'm like the most excited about the movie because I just like the connection they had. He's not in this movie that much. I didn't realize. He's in like four scenes. He looms so large and I remember their relationship more than I remember the Kingsley relationship.

But he's not, he shows up what, three times? It feels like they cut a scene out because it goes for like, oh, we bring, and all of a sudden they're playing at the park. Like they've been playing for a while, but it feels like we're missing the, them feeling each other out scene. Whereas Kingsley, there's like, you know, five scenes where they're feeling each other out. I don't know. I just like the Fishburne character. Kingsley gets his own arc.

Fishburne doesn't. He's just in Chicago with them for no reason. Let's bring the guy to the park. Kingsley gets his own arc. The dad gets his own arc. The mom really doesn't.

No, she does. Cause she, she fought for the kid in a real way. She did fight for the kid, but at the same time. She's wearing the pants in the family. She kind of lays it down. She made the goddamn pants. Yeah. Like Joey Zaza's. Yeah. Joey Zaza got his shit off one time in the best scene in the movie. And one of the best scenes of the nineties, if you ask me. Yeah. And maybe, maybe I know he's good, but maybe the best scene of his career.

It's in this movie. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. We'll get to it in rewatchable scenes. But maybe the best scene of his life. Are we all going to take cracks at doing the dialogue from it? I'm going to say that. Right. We can go around in a circle. And because of that, there was literally a point where they were sitting on the, before the young Darth Vader kid comes.

when they were sitting on the park bench eating at McDonald's to where I was like, damn, I haven't seen him in a while. Like, when he popped up in the movie, I was like, oh, shit. Like, he's still in this bitch? I really have forgotten he had been in it because he really only comes in the movie a couple of times. He's basically in another movie that I'm...

Kind of part of me is more interested in what's going on in the park. Just the dynamics of it. Who plays, who's the best guy. What happens when different people come in? Cause we, in Boston, we had in Cambridge and Harvard square, we had the same situation. And the first piece I ever wrote that got published that I got paid for $600 from Yankee magazine. I think it was money, but more than that. But I wrote a piece about this guy who played chess for money and you had to play him. And it was like $2. This was a year before the movie came out.

But they had all these characters in the same way. And every time I walked by, I was always fascinated by it. And that just, it feels like that whole park scene could have been another movie, like an indie movie that had no stars. But Fishburne, I don't know. What do we think his job was chess? What do we think? So what did he do every day? I'm super fascinated because one of the first scenes that you see is like,

they're trading like there's like baggies of drugs or whatever back and forth and the dad in one of the most racist scenes when he's like Vinny that druggie or whatever and I'm like

To your point, was something cut out of the movie? Because I was like, Fishburne is not acting like a drug addict. Is this just racism? Like, what is his story? Why is he always at the park? Yeah, I think it's more like his feelings about the park in general. No, no. And I understood that. But I was like, what is his arc? And what is his narrative? Like, what is his life like? Because even at the park, he seems to be almost...

Not the mayor, but definitely the one that's scoping out all the guys, knows all the plays, and then can see emotionally something in Josh that nobody else really can see. And I just needed one more scene of him bringing that to life. Yeah, I needed two. All of these people are basically shards of who Josh Waitzkin would eventually become. Like Vinny is his humanity. His parents are his protectors. But they're also like...

They don't know what they want him to be. And he was unsure. Dad wants to be great. Mom wants him to have a heart. So he's going back and forth between those two things. And then the Ben Kingsley character represents the institution of chess. Like what you have to do if you want to be good at chess. I remember every game Bobby Fish ever played. Right. You know what I mean? And even him, though, he's been burnt.

By the structure and the grind and all of it. So although he recognizes, and he's kind of a con man too with the goddamn fake certificates, although he recognizes that there is a sacrifice, he doesn't want it to take too much of a toll. So everybody is asking all of these questions and Josh is like, is eating it all up.

I mean, one of the best scenes going off that point is he's telling Joss, Blitz Chess, Speed Chess, it's going to ruin you. It's going to ruin you. And it almost seems like he's talking about chess like it's an addiction. And the minute you see him like on the street, like Bruce playing chess. Playing again. Yeah. I'm using it again. I'm like, oh, you're talking because they keep that's

other one of like the interesting little things that they keep pointing to is i'm like oh you burnt out on chess you're talking about yourself they i mean the professor basically tells us that yeah and it's not so like it didn't snap into my mind i was like oh was speed chess the thing that is like was actually your one true love and you just kind of got burnt out on it or just or so or he or somebody broke you yeah yeah i remember every game he ever played

It's not bad. This movie has so many of either those people or people I like, including, we mentioned Ben Kingsley. We mentioned Fishburne, who we're going to talk about more later. Joe Mantegna, who was Godfather 3 Homicide and Bobby Fisher, right in all the middle here. Joan Allen's first big movie. And then she goes on to be in a bunch of good ones. Mm-hmm.

including face-off, which we'll probably do at some point again on the rewatchables, even though we've already done it. She's got a thing. Well, she definitely knew that her husband's body had changed, and I think she liked the new body. That was where we landed on the podcast. But there's a thing with her, though. I've always had a thing. She's got a thing. For Joanne Allen? For Joan Allen, bro. There's some kind of thing.

Like she's, oh, I'm 100% with you. Especially in face-off. She's kind of that prim and proper, but deep down there's more lurking. Speaking about things, I just have to, because I'm on the rewatchables, I have to say, CR, you're fucking wrong. Like I was listening to a recent rewatchables and I almost wanted to punch. Which one?

Fran Drescher is so hot. Oh, thanks. She's like all time. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't hear this, but Saturday Night Fever. We, we did, this was like a year plus ago. And then we did a Fran Drescher callback.

and i brought up how i was that fran jesher was like secretly one of the best looking woman all the last 50 years cr i love you it's part of her thing yeah it's literally smoking hot still right now still now literally part of her thing like when they would talk about the was the show she was on with the nanny the nanny it was like oh the face and the body like it was part of her thing yeah cr just didn't see it sorry to derail this joe now and ben kingsley

We get the William H. Macy, David Pamer, Dan Hedaya are all in this. All of those guys. And then Laura Linney just as one scene as a teacher. I didn't even recognize her because I'm just like, it took me a moment. I'm like, Shawty from Ozark is the teacher in this? I never, I was like, oh shit, that's Laura Linney. And to your point, Tuna Fish Dad? I was like, bro.

Is this one of his first big roles? Austin Pendleton. Right. I mean, Tony Shalhoub. Tony Shalhoub is like, this was, this movie is almost like a, that guy training camp. Yep. Or somebody who's going to have a bigger career five years later. Like, Laura Linney's in two movies this year. This one, and she's, screws the president in the beginning of Dave.

And he has the stroke on top of her. And then a couple of years later, Truman Show. Yep. And then boom. And Primal Fear. And Primal Fear. Primal Fear, yeah. Also written by Steve Zalian, who ended up winning Best Adapted Screenplay

for Schindler's List the same year. So big year for Steve. But he's one of the best screenwriters of the last 35 years. No, he's fantastic. And this one is a great script over everything else. Sometimes it's like you want to do the research. It's like somebody wrote it and then it got revised and then this person came in and they fixed this. He's one of those where he writes the script and they make it. And there's characters and there's arcs and distinct parts. A mishmash of things that shouldn't work.

narration stock footage the first narration ages really because like you go back to a lot of 90s 80s when you're like yeah well the kid's got a great voice for he's got that like little tiny lisp he's like liquid swords like it gave me that i was like pumped the minute i hear the little kids on the story aged wonderfully so six ben kingsley won an oscar five other oscar nominees

including Fishburne, who got nominated this same year for What's Love Got to Do With It. So big year for him. Oh, he was cooking at this point. So my take on his character in this is I don't think they realized he was going to be in the movie, and I don't think the part was that big of a part.

And I think because he was in it, I think they threw in like two, three extra scenes with him. Oh, wait. So you're saying that they were, wait, you feel like they had this in a can? Because sometimes that happens where you drop a movie with somebody and then something else blows up. No, no. I'm saying when they were making the movie, I don't think this was a big part, but I think he might have liked the script and just wanted to be in it. So maybe the part's fatter than it would have been. He's like, I want a part where I scream something and they go, okay, cool. There it is.

There it is! Right. Most memorable parts. Nominated for Best Cinematography Oscar. $12 million budget. It made $7.3 million. How did y'all let this happen? So...

As we've discussed many times in the rewatchables, 93 was a ridiculously loaded movie year and it came out during the summer and there was a million things and it just got lost. And it's the kind of movie, if it was a different weekend, different year, I think it would have done better. But I think it wins ultimately because it's been on for 30 years. And I actually think it's a little bit timeless. It reminds me a little big. I, even though it's 30, Craig, did you feel like this movie could have come out now?

In a lot of ways. I don't think chess matters now, so no. Oh, interesting. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Jesus. What is? I think there's been a resurgence of chess. I don't think. Queen's Gambit? How old are you, Charles? 31. Yeah. I don't feel like chess is as big of a deal in our generation. I'm 29. In our generation as it was in the 90s. I disagree so much. I disagree so much. There's no famous chess people. Nobody cares about Bobby Fischer my age. That's fair. I'll be honest. I'll say something. I keep reiterating this.

There should be something where we talk about like what from the movie is culturally expired because this is a chess, because Fresh comes out. What was the name of that category? I think I should, I'm going to add that for 24. Like, it's kind of what ages the best a little bit.

No, no, it's different though. It's culturally what has died. Chess is, at this point, there's a little research. No, we should call it cultural funeral. Yeah, like this is the last time this thing fucking mattered, right? And in this movie, what I would say is this was this and Fresh, because Fresh is all about chess. They're playing speed chess. They're doing the whole thing. We were playing chess at lunch during this time. These movies were so big. The Bobby Fischer thing still was a big deal.

chess was gone for a long time i feel like until queen's gambit and then there was an african chess movie that came out a couple of years ago yeah um that that was pretty big too so it was gone my friend tendo did that yeah yeah over at netflix right yeah yeah i think queen's gambit is just more of a really good prestige tv show i don't know if it hit because of chess i think it was just a really good show but i think it got people interested and it was covid yeah yeah it was that came out this week i'm not sure it's hot take really quick

I think chess is more fun to watch film than even like basketball. Like in the movies, I think this is, this is, this is what we didn't want to

What? I'm so serious, bro. You know what I'm saying? I'm so serious. This is the danger of inviting Charles to watch this. Anybody who listens to our other podcasts, this was the worst case scenario. This is what we didn't want. Oh, I have so many. Here's the thing. I'm going to stop talking. I think it's even harder for an actor to look good playing chess than it is for an actor to look good playing basketball. I mean, that's...

Because here's the thing. I don't know anything about chess, but literally it's just like even this kid, this kid has to do these moves where he's like very like, okay, sure. Yeah. And he's like really thinking. He does the lean. That lean is clutch. He had a couple good leans and a couple good stairs. That's hard for any actor. And this kid is like, what, seven or eight? And I'm like, oh, even in Queen's Gambit, think about it.

All you are doing as an actor is like you just got to think really hard or squint your eyes. And I don't know anything about chess. So the only way I know it's a good move is if like fucking Vinny is yelling like, yo, he did it. This is my one retort to that. It's true. This is my one retort to that. When there's bad actor basketball being played, there is almost nothing more grotesque.

But it's almost always bad. It's not always bad. It just glazes over. But when there's an actor who can't dribble the ball, or like an All-American, great show, I'm not dissing, so shout out Spencer, shout out everybody. It's so annoying when you have to do your qualifiers before you criticize something.

But what I'm saying is, what I'm saying is, when you watch the football being played, when you get sports that are that physically intensive wrong, it looks so fucking bad, bro. Then what's the last good basketball movie where the basketball looked actually good? Winning Time. Which is good. Hold on.

Right? Not white men can't jump. I just watched it recently. Wesley's stuff made me mad all over again. Yeah. Wesley's going, Wesley's doing his thing. Wesley's hamming it up. Boom, boom. Wesley's traveling. Yeah.

Wesley. It's really tough. They got Wesley Duncan on the set of 4am. Because Woody's so good. Woody was so good. He's like, I'm going to make semi-pro. I just want to play basketball and get in a movie. Wesley's such a great athlete. So good. He's such a great athlete that it kind of gets away with it. But he's doing, he's really doing this. He's going for it. You can tell what actors are great athletes. Like even we just did Under Siege.

Tommy Lee Jones does some physical stuff for that movie. We were like, man, that guy definitely must've played sports. I think he played sports and they didn't play football at Harvard.

I think he was the center at Harvard. The center? Yeah, I think he was like the center at Harvard. Can you imagine Tommy Lee Jones lining up on the other side of Aaron fucking Donald, getting his goddamn guts rearranged? The center. Whoa! That must be a different goddamn... Oh, it's Harvard. Yeah, yeah, college football center. I thought you were saying center basketball.

Um, there you go. Semi-pro not terrible basketball and semi-pro. No, it's good. It just was, it was too close to anchorman. Right. I think they needed five years. Uh, our guy, Roger Ebert reviewed this movie four stars. Of course. A film of remarkable sensitivity and insight. The film is the first intelligent one I could remember seeing about chess. And then he says, by the end of searching Bobby Fisher, we have learned something about tournament chess and a great deal about human nature.

If we can operate at the genius level in a given field, does that mean we must? Even if the cost is the sort of endless purgatory of Bobby Fischer's inhibited, it's an interesting question. The movie does not avoid it. Nailed it. It's a good take. Wesley Morris level criticism, right? It's actually, I got to say, I would encourage people to go read it. It's, I think the best Raj review I've read of all these movies. It's really well written. It was like just,

It's it actually reminded me of Wesley. I'm glad you brought that up, but it's just really, it's well thought out. It's a little bigger picture. And then the, uh, endless purgatory of Bobby Fisher is inhabited, inhibited, uh, inhabited. It got worse and Bobby got worse and it's, it's added a weird tint to this movie cause he's not a great guy. I mean, he's dead now, but, uh, he had not a great run.

We're going to take a break and we're going to do most rewatchable scene. I'm actually really interested to see who wins most rewatchable scene here because there's like three or four that I love. This episode is supported by State Farm. Think about your first reaction after you have an accident. What do you do? You scream, oh no, or man, why did this happen? On the flip side, let's say you buy a new car or you lease a new car. Get in there and it smells great and you're like, man, this is awesome.

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slash rewatch $45 upfront payment required equivalent to $15 a month for first three month plan only speed slower above 40 GB on unlimited plan. Additional taxes, fees, and restrictions apply. See mint mobile for details. All right. Most rewatchable scene. Um, I mean, this movie gets better as it goes along, but we do have, I like when Josh doesn't want to beat his dad. Um,

Yeah, I know. I should have let him win one. I gave him every opportunity. It wasn't time to win. Oh, no? It doesn't matter. No, say what you mean. You don't get it? He doesn't want to beat his daddy. And then his dad's like, come on, beat me. And he throws the phone books off. Great moment. I like when he beats Tony Shalhoub and he feels bad and gives him the candy. Good scene. Great. Tony Shalhoub steals the candy. One-seener. Yeah, one-seener. When he holds up the two fingers. Come on, man.

First big tournament when all the parents get kicked out and the kids clap. Yeah. Oh, my question is how I was like, I'm a grown ass adult. You're not locking me in a cage for hours. You would if it meant that you're

That's why that scene is so telling. And that scene was actually realistic. But you would if it meant your kid getting disqualified from the tournament. Yeah. If it meant your kid didn't get to play in the tournament, which is really more important to you than it is to the kid, you'd probably do whatever the tournament director said. That was a childless thing to say. Yeah.

We had the messenger system. I like the kids running back and forth. That's just a really good scene. Then the kid walks back and then he's like, it's over. Who won? Wait, what? Get a little William H. Macy in there versus Montaigne. Next one, the Laura Linney scene. I'm sure he's very good at this chess thing. That's easily the winner, right?

I'm sorry, but your analogy is a very bad one. If you want to make a comparison to something, compare it to something that makes sense. Compare it to math or music or art, because otherwise it belittles him and it and me. No, I don't mean to belittle you at all. Oh, but you are. You are. Even in the way you're looking at me. Mr. Waiskin, I think perhaps you're not-- You want to know how good he is? I'll tell you how good he is. He is better at this than I have ever been at anything.

in my life. He is better at this than you'll ever be at anything. My son has a gift. He has a gift. And once you acknowledge that, then maybe we'll have something to talk about. Josh. You want to know how good he is? I'll tell you how good he is. He's better at this than I've ever been at anything in my life. He's better at this than you'll ever be at anything. My son has a gift.

Really quick, with that scene, the one thing that bothered me was, like, dog, she's going in on this family and the whole class is still there? Like, if I'm a little kid, I'm like, damn, like, fucking Josh's family, they ain't shit. He didn't get to go to the, like, fucking Lincoln Memorial. It's a slight nitpick. No teacher would ever do it at one of those functions. They would do it, though. But they would do it in private. Not in front of 40 people. They get in your business. Yo, how's it going? Blah, blah, blah. Hey, man.

I remember my mama being like, hey, is he doing good in school? Good. Well, stop goddamn worrying about him. You know what I mean? But she grates on him and picks at him and prods and pokes at him. He never mentioned the White House when he was in D.C. Which, by the way, I'm not saying that she's necessarily wrong. I'm just saying. It's called a parent-teacher conference. That's when you bring this shit up. The pinochle jab was a little bit. Her emotional IQ is so bad.

low, and they're already under such strain, when he pops off at her, it feels completely warranted. Yeah. Completely warranted? He looks insane, even though she was like, no, I feel like by the time you let her have it... I think everybody loses that scene. Yeah, I think by the time you let her have it, it's like, yo, man,

we trying to build something over here. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? What you want right now? Now that the wife is in the corner, be like, yo, could we handle this outside, please? Come on. I think by the end of it, I think the wife was looking around at first, but at the end of it, she was kind of like,

All right, motherfucker. And then they walked out together. She was like, all right. At the end of it, she was like, told your motherfucking ass. And then they left. By the way, he's been great in a lot of things. By the way, he's great in The Godfather 3. I know you guys have this tenuous relationship with The Godfather 3. We did a rewatch of those. We like The Godfather 3. It's missing a couple pieces. It's worth it overall. In that movie, he's very intense. He's very sinister, as Joey says.

That might be, that scene right there, the single most powerful piece of acting that I've seen him do. It's great. I mean, I'm serious. He is focused. He's right there. He looks like he's beside himself. At the same time, he's completely emoting. It's a really great piece of acting right there. I think that scene in 2023 is probably a little different.

The teacher probably files a complaint immediately. Oh, no. The whole fucking school is taping him. Yeah, somebody's taping him in the corner. Yeah, it's a little different. Josh loses. Josh basically tanks the game in seven moves because the villain kid's in his head who we haven't talked about yet. And then they're in the rain. Oh, man.

Dude, I've been in moments like that with your kid where you're, you don't know how hard to push, but you know, you have to do something because something's wrong. I mean, that's like the most exaggerated version of this. But when Josh says, why are you standing so far away from me?

Fucking great. It's such a good line. In the gut every time. Yeah, why am I staying? This is my son. He's like, come over here. The kid just wants a fucking hug. He's a mess. So, bro, that part, right? Zayn is a beast, bro. Yeah. That part where he delivers that, it's completely vulnerable. And as the audience watching the scene, you...

it resolves the scene. Very, very, very rarely is there a line that completely resolves the scene. Because as he's doing that, a part of me is like, yo, why you being a little bitch? Like, go out there and do the thing. And you realize that he's putting distance between him and his son. His son calls it out. And then you're like, no, it's about more than chess. It completely resolves the scene. I will also say, child actors, it's very hard. I think the kid who plays Joss Maxx

He has this thing about him where if you've ever met a child who's like a prodigy or just very smart, there's almost kind of this sadness to them where they're just like too ahead of the people, like the kids around them and they understand too much. And this child actor has a great job of them. Like he's not plucky. He's not annoying. And there's a little bit of like, this is a, he's playing the burden of being a chess prodigy so well that when it finally breaks him,

It sells me in a way most of these types of movies with these kids' characters just do not. I had this later, but we can do it now. So his name's Max Pomerick. I thought, I think it's one of the better child actor performances I can remember. Yes. Because if he's not good, the movie doesn't work. The movie doesn't work. Yeah. Because he's got to have this, you've got to be able to just watch his face and kind of guess what he's thinking half the time. Because he doesn't have a lot of lines. No. He's got, there's a curiosity to him.

But he's empathetic.

But he's also got to go against these big-ass actors who are these real actors, and he holds his own with all of them. And then by the end of it, you're really rooting for him. Like, you feel like you have a handle on this dude by the end. It's a really good performance. Oh, when Ben Kingsley does the shit with the... Oh, that's what I have for the next scene. With the certificates? Yeah. I was like, a lesser child actor would have gotten swallowed alive. And he's like, he's in the scene. Maybe you want another one. Maybe you want another one. Here's another one.

Get out of my house. How does that go in a black family's house, Ben? First of all, you mean talking to him talking to the kid like that? With him dropping 20 certificates on the table. It doesn't get that far. A voice comes from the kitchen. I, nah. That's too much. Terry!

Go in there. That's a little bit too much now. Somebody come in this motherfucker. All right now. I mean, if it was a black child, it'd never get that far because I was like, okay, he's a chess prodigy, but the sticker books and the fucking fake points are where he's just like, oh word. I'm like, dog.

This is what got you I was a little bit like how smart is is this kid really but I mean he's he's seven years old But like every other time he's like he's like this genius level and the minute he brings out stickers he's like Oh word stickers Get out of my house is great that leads to the big parent fight. This whole stretch is awesome So we have the certificates where it's also a really Bruce Really? Oh, I hate him. The kid's seven you motherfucker. Talk about when the certificate situation Yeah

I want the certificate. You want the certificate. You have to have the certificate. You won't move until you get the certificate. You win. Here's your certificate. It doesn't mean anything. It's a piece of paper. It's a Xerox of a piece of paper. Do you want another one? Do you want 10? Do you want 20? 30? I've got a briefcase full of them. They mean nothing.

Oh, I've got plenty of these. Like, he's just shattering the kid. It's like, you motherfucker. Why are you doing this? There's something broken in Bruce. Yeah. I think he actually, that's when you start to wonder, is he, like, actually trying to destroy this kid a little bit? Yeah, there's something broken in Bruce. Bruce, Bruce's trauma. And look, that's another thing that the movie does really well. The movie does...

a really great job of putting all of these characters who don't have, who you're not as invested to into as much as you are, Josh, putting their trauma and whatever's going on with them on front street. The dad, the dad is a sports writer. Yeah. Early in the movie, somebody asks Josh a question. And I thought it was just a great little nugget. They go, are you going to write about sports like your dad? Or are you going to play?

Now, Josh says, I'm going to play. That question is essentially asking him, are you going to observe greatness and like make that, are you going to go be great? And Josh goes, I'm going to play second best for the Yankees. You know what I mean? And so like when you look at that,

that's like a big deal. The dad is dealing with the fact that he's been around so much of this, but it's not really for him. And he recognizes his son. Bruce had it, but it washed out. So it all bubbles up at different times in the movie. The script really does give everybody their time to shine. Van, I'm going to give you 10 points for that point. Thank you.

I'm going to write that down. You're 10 points closer to being a master of the rewatchables. A rewatchables masterclass certificate. Oh, man. You can't. Can you imagine if you were doing it and I was just like taking, writing a notebook? Would you? I would say you can't tell anybody, but is there a rewatchables episode where you would get somebody a certificate?

Like at the end of this movie, you just bring it out like Bruce and be like, yo. Because of their performance? Yes. You're a grandmaster. Because when he starts talking about the history of Boston in the 1770s, it just goes to another level. It's just the podcast stopped and he gave a five-minute lecture on how Boston people were nuts in the 1770s. It's amazing. So with the big parent fight,

How many ballplayers grow up afraid of losing their father's love? He's not weak. He's decent. He knows you disapprove of him. He knows you think he's weak, but he's not weak. He's decent. And if you or Bruce or anyone else tries to beat that out of him, I swear to God, I'll take him away.

By the way, she says he knows you disapprove of him. He knows you think he's weak. That's my nitpick. I don't know if I 100% agree with... That's my... Because he's definitely not weak. He's winning chess tournaments. It's not like he's some schmuck. No, but she says... Doesn't she say... He... The...

Josh thinks that his dad is disapproving of him because he doesn't have that mama mentality, that killer instinct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I think he's like... But I think weak's the wrong word. I would have said like you're too empathetic or something like that, right? I don't feel like they sold that in this movie. They seem like they have a very functional father and son relationship. He

He doesn't necessarily push Josh or challenge him to step outside of himself. I don't know, on a rewatch, I don't know if they sold that he in some way is just chronically disappointed in who his son is. So when she said that, that's like when I realized that she's probably out the door. She's talking to different divorce attorneys. She's out of here. Because I don't feel like that got across to me. Am I wrong? I don't feel it got across to me that he thinks his son is weak and he's not fucking with him like that.

I did get the sense that I think they want you to do a jump that I think they need another couple scenes to accomplish where Josh is in the slump. He's being dragged to all these tournaments. His trophies aren't even in his room. They are like... So his dad is basically like... And something that I read is that in the real version of this, the dad...

had tried to play chess. Like he had seen Bobby Fischer and everything. The guy wrote the book, yeah. And he just didn't have it. So when his son had it, it was like, oh my God, this is the best thing. So I think the movie is trying to get you to make a mental jump of like, oh. But do you understand how even that right there totally fucking changes that? Yeah. Because that piece of information right there makes that a little bit more accessible. But they didn't do that in the movie. No, I agree with that. I don't think they were expecting people to watch it 38 times. No.

Josh, Josh's dad tells him he can quit is the third part of this kind of long scene. He says, it's just a game. And the kid's like, no, it isn't a kill. That's when, you know, like the mom is there. I have to win. Yeah. White mama. Um, then we get the, another great, this is the best stretch of movie. Josh's dad putting all the trophies back, brings them to see fish burn.

And Fishburne just cooks for like two minutes. Oh, man. Don't lick the board. From the gut. You're playing enough to lose, Josh. You got to risk losing. You got to risk everything. He's just like fucking flying advice left and right. What's that? Sleeman attack. Sleeman attack? Where'd you learn that from? A book? No, my teacher taught me. Oh, your teacher. Well, forget it. Play like you used to. From the gut. Get your pawns rolling on the queen side. Come and get me.

Put it out. Josh is playing. He didn't teach you how to win. He taught you how not to lose. That's nothing to be proud of. You're playing not to lose, Josh. You've got to risk losing. You've got to risk everything. You've got to go to the edge of defeat. That's where you want to be, boy. On the edge of defeat. But. But what? Play. Never play the board. Always the man. You got to play the man. Play on the board. Play me. I'm your opponent. You have to beat me, not the board. Beat me. You're not who I have to play. You're playing me now. Come on. Beat me. So is the movie trying to tell us that

actually the speed chess is the more artful form in terms of like, that's where Josh gets his second wind and like falls back in love with the game. And are they basically being like, is that the only place that Josh can be like,

This isn't about winning or losing. Vinny doesn't even like Josh beats Vinny and he doesn't even care. It's the purer form. Yeah. It's just it's all emotion, all inspiration. It's everything that gets taken away from you when you go sit down in that formal setting. And the argument is, you know, I don't know as much about chess as I need to. The argument is how much of that do you need to be?

uh, to actually go and win. And I feel like Josh won because he had a little bit of that. And the other kid, you're leaving out one thing. Cause I think the speed chess, the reason it works and brings him back. Cause he's not overthinking. Yeah. That Bruce comes in and Bruce has him just contemplating every part of every single decision you make. And then he starts playing it safer and safer.

Fishburn side is the side of you gotta let it fly, man. Right. Like you gotta go. It's like the, it's, I'm going to bring this up just cause we taped it. We're taping a day after the Celtics blew yet another close game. The Celtics play nice and free. They play Fishburn speed chess.

And then at the end of these games, they slow down and more methodical and they play the Bruce Ben Kingsley style. And that's when you get Jason Tatum firing 27 footers with a hand in his face. One second left in the shot clock. Is there a chess equivalent of knowing that the best player on the court has five fouls and not... Steph Curry was the villain kid. Yeah.

He's that kid. He's just sitting there like this with like that shitty look on his face. Can we just say while we're talking about the villain kid, this is the thing I hate about sports movies. I get it's the movies, but hey, the winners write the tale.

The kid's story was like they used a different name is more fucked up. Like, right. Like he's a chess prodigy. And I think he ultimately ended up being probably more naturally gifted than Josh. But just hearing the story, like I think there was a Vanity Fair article written about his family. There might have potentially been abuse. Like he quit chess. Now he's like a poker genius. And I'm like,

If I was that prodigy, I would watch this movie and be like, fuck that shit. Not only was I better than him, I was two years younger than him. And like, I, even the draw that they have at the end was real, but it was like, they both shared the championship. It wasn't like, oh, Josh is going off in the sunset. And I was like, if I was that chess prodigy, I would be like,

Buck's searching for bodies. His name was Jeff Sauror. A couple people were mad at how they were portrayed in the movie. Yeah. The super flaky chess guy from the...

Remember, that's whoever, whoever. He wins about $2,000 a year playing chess. He's played by... I forgot the guy's name. I don't think Bruce was happy either. Yeah, so a couple of different people from the movie were upset about the way they were portrayed. Yeah, I heard Bruce was not this, like, maniacal evil man. Like, people were saying, like, no, he was pretty chill. But that's what happens with so many of these movies when it's based on a true story. And then it's like...

somebody could base this movie about this podcast right now and once it's like alright three people and then Bill Charles and Van and then they can do whatever the fuck they want that's what Van does when he makes movies next one is oh I also had the Kid Cudi Pursuit of Happiness award for best needle drop for Fishburne as he's getting Josh's thing back the music kicks in big like we really get it's going nuts a quickie one Bruce goes to see Josh's dad

When he says, I do know he likes playing again, but he's, and Bruce says, you have no idea what a fall like this can do to him. And he's like, yeah, I think I can actually. Yeah. And it's just like, oh, yeah. Tough, tough scene for Bruce. I really, while we're, while we're on the topic of the data, I have to ask this. This might belong in what's aged the worst. Could you, as a sports writer in the 1980s, afford to live around Washington Square and support a four person family? That's your nitpick.

That's so early 90s? I think yes. No, this would be the 80s probably. I think 20th century, yes. Damn. It was really like that out there? Yeah. How much you think Josh's dad was like bringing home? Because like that's a nice apartment. Like that's a spacious. What are we talking about? But you know what? I don't know. It's a good nitpick. This movie is one of, we always talk about what our favorite New York movies are and stuff. This movie is one of my favorite New York movies.

It does New York really well. Like, it has that claustrophobic feeling. Like, when they go into the chess, the place where, like, Bruce's, like, whole, the chess club, it has that feeling of old New York buildings. You can smell it, and you're like... When Josh goes in there, you're like, oh, he loves chess so much because this place doesn't scare him. Like, this is home to him. When he sees the pieces, this is a very, to your point,

They do New York so fucking well. It's a little like Rounders when they go into these different buildings in Rounders and it just feels lived in. And you're like, this could only happen in this place. Yeah. Two more scenes. Bruce goes to see Josh before the big match. Gives him the big gift. He's in the frame. Gets a little dusty. When Josh hugs Bruce. Paul really kicks up. Woo! And it's a cool frame, too. The diploma looks good and he's like...

I've never been so proud of anyone in my life. I'm honored to call yourself my teacher. It's like, oh man. And Bruce finally got there. This is great, guys. Have you shown your kids this movie? Have they like rocked with it? So, I tried to get Ben to watch last night and I was like, he's like, what's it about? And I said, it's about a little kid who's really good at chess. He's like,

Fuck no, I'm not watching that. He dropped the F-bomb at me. Not a Ben movie. Yeah, not a Ben movie. A little nephew. That's what I want to ask. Is this... Because this movie, I love the like...

I love the momentum of it and the rhythm of it, but I'm like, this is a 1990s child movie momentum. You know what, though? If Netflix had this, I could see this being, like, number one trending movie on Netflix for, like, a week. Because I don't think a lot of people know about it. It flies by. It's very watchable.

There's so many familiar faces in it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? There's so many familiar faces in it. They would definitely put Fishburne in a little square. Put him in there. What is Larry in? Put him in there. Search for Bobby Fischer in a little square. Oh, they would put the O's. Can you imagine if you watched an O's? It's like, you know what you should watch next? Right. Search for Bobby Fischer. Then the big match is phenomenal. I like when the evil kid doesn't go right away. He's trying to psych them out.

I love all Fishburne's parts of this are great. He's just yelling at the TV. Josh can't even hear him. I like how he loses his queen that gets the other one. Then kid finally makes a mistake. Clear the table. Take the draw. It's just an elite six minutes. I love thematically.

The whole thing with the queen. Like, I love when the scripts do the thing where I'm just like, they keep saying the whole time, the whole time. Don't bring him out. Don't bring him out. Don't bring him out. Don't do it. And then when he does it, I'm like, yo, this is cinema, baby. It's who he is. Yeah. It's who he is. He wins the match by being who he is. Yep. Every part of him that people have tried to coach out of him, bringing the queen out,

offers the draw, even the speed chest thing. It's all in there. He wins by being who he authentically is. And he wins not just the chest match, but he also kind of, his character wins the movie. Not to jump ahead of myself. In the real match, so they made up that actual winning position that he saw 12 moves ahead, but...

October 95 of the issue of Chess Life, which I don't know if you guys had that issue. Grandmaster Larry Evans said that the position that Josh had in the movie was actually unsound and that Jonathan actually could have won the game. The Neil deGrasse Tyson. Every time a movie drops, Neil deGrasse Tyson goes, that's not possible. Love you, Neil. I did watch it pretty closely this last time and I was like, why didn't he just chase him down with the king?

The evil kid. I don't know what you're talking about. Do you want to hear my chess story? Please. So I'm six years old, living in Brookline, Massachusetts. Okay.

And my dad, who had always had like weird 70s friends, he had this friend that loved chess and taught chess. And one day he played chess with me and I could just, I was always good at chess. Bill, this sounds like horseshit. Nope. What were you rated? This is a great story. You guys are going to enjoy this. Okay. This guy came over and played with me, played chess with me for an hour twice a week for like a month and a half.

And every time he beat me and I would get mad, but he was like, you're getting better, getting better. So then I overheard him tell my mom, no, it's going great. I didn't win for my first 200 times. And I heard that. I was like, I'm never playing with that guy again. That was it for my chess career. That's my mom's story. She still tells it. You didn't have, you didn't have, you didn't have to stick it out. You didn't want it. I was like, I have to lose 200 times just to win my first. I'm out. That's it.

Really? Yeah. That's it. Never really played chess again. You could have had a completely different life. I could have been a completely tortured chess person. I don't...

I don't know if my brain would have totally worked like that, but it definitely worked a little. The reason why I was so fascinated with this movie at first is because it makes chess seem like the piano or... Yeah, because I think it is in a lot of ways. It's the same kind of... Like when Bruce says at one point, I remember every game Bobby Fischer ever played, like he's serious. He really did study like every game Bobby Fischer, the same way you would study like compositions. I mean, but even the speed chess, what I think there's...

movie does really well is there's a rhythm to it. So once they start doing it, like when he goes, when Josh goes back to Vinny,

not only is the music swelling, but they're hitting the timer and you're like, oh, it has the sports movie thing. I'm like, it makes me feel like Rocky where I'm like, okay, he got his mojo back, which when you think about it is a hard thing to do in a chess movie because how do you prove that a chess prodigy got their mojo back? Like, oh, that was a really good move. No, they figure out the, yeah, you're right. The sound and the visuals. And I was like, that is, you know, when he got it back in the big scene,

When he tells villain kid trick or treat. It's like, oh, Josh is back, man. He's throwing daggers now. What's your most rewatchable scene, Vin? It is the scene with the teacher. My son has a gift? My son has a gift. I have that as well, Charles. Man, I think it has to be Josh reuniting with Vinny. It gets me every single time. I do love that part, too. All right, one more break and then we'll do what's aged best.

What's aged the best?

We mentioned the opening credits with Josh's story is really good. Then Bobby Fisher made the most original and unexpected move of all. He disappeared. It's really good. As people know, I'm not a huge narration guy, but it's really good. Chess parent tournament culture has aged the best because I still think it's pretty grim. Oh, I... This is not a movie you watch and you're like, I want to get my kids into chess. I used to work at a charter school and they had like

Oh, the tournaments? They would have the tournaments, and then they would have kids being in the chess club. And it was weird to see... I grew up, and it's like, all right, there is a hierarchy. The basketball players are here. The football players are here. To see the hierarchy in a charter school of like, oh, no, the chess motherfuckers are those. They're the people that the adults are like, oh, he's going to college. He's getting a scholarship. And I'm like, damn, I wouldn't have been one of these motherfuckers. So that is age 12. The pressure Josh feels...

Once he becomes number one, I think is really good I think that's a real theme for this movie that spreads to all their sports or basically anything really you're climbing you're climbing you're climbing you get there and then it's like oh this isn't fun if I win I'm supposed to if I lose I'm a shithead call it the gunslinger conundrum. Hmm So I have it written down there It's like once you become the fastest gun in the West the only thing you can do is die. Oh

Remember that Ballad of Buster Scruggs movie? Fantastic Coen Brothers movie. All the Wild West vignettes and guys out there in the beginning, he's like the, and then all of a sudden a faster gun comes.

Like the gunslinger, the gunslinger conundrum exists in every sport. Like once you get there, the only thing you can do is die. There's nothing else you can do. Somebody, a faster, younger gun is coming. And it's just about holding on to it for as long as you can. And they do a good job of that in this movie. And his reign wasn't even that long. I mean, but in a meta context, what makes me sad every single time where it's like, if you watch this movie and don't know anything,

the last, like, oh, Josh went on to play baseball and this, and he went fishing. You're like, oh, yeah. And then you do the Wikipedia search and he's not playing chess anymore. And I think he gave a quote about being like, I'm not... He's like a motivational speaker now or something? Yeah, but he did admit he fell out of love with chess. And I'm like, that is brutal thinking like, okay, this kid becomes number one at such a young age. And you kind of see through the matrix of this game you're playing. Yeah. And what else? Weirdly, Bobby Fischer did not age well, but like,

it happens to him as well where it's like when you're number one for that long what else is there to do i have the young fisher when they they bring the call back they say in the beginning when they see josh and then the evil kid comes in like young fisher they actually thought it was bobby fish yeah yeah van does that with basketball he's like amani bates young jordan crisis shout out to money basement who's your latest muhammad

Was that the 12-year-old guy? What? The kid, the 12-year-old kid. Young Shaq. Young Shaq. Young, man, young Wimby. You haven't seen the 12-year-old? You didn't see, Craig, you didn't see the 12-year-old kid? I can't do this. Muhammad something. Muhammad something. He's like six, nine. He's a foot taller than everybody. Just, it's ridiculous. He could have played last night in the Celtic Warriors game. Yeah, it's like child abuse. Yeah. Like, it's just destroying people. It's ridiculous. Morewood's aged the best.

Fishburne's first scene when he does the I'm gonna watch out for you Josh Waitzkin your boys use pieces to attack lady like he's trying to tell her and she just has no idea what's going on I like that part I have scaring the shit out of white women she was panicking oh what age the worst is the mom showing up like she's like

she's looking around she's like there's a lot of niggers in this park josh you sure and i'm like dog like come on what are we doing i mean she was scared look i've been to washington you know it's funny i'm in the washington square park since it's gorgeous to me like you don't think so no i haven't i haven't seen in a while it's much nicer than it was this is also set in the late 80s so i don't know how okay am i talking about the right part though is this the one by nyu

That's the one about NYU? Bro, that's one of my favorite parts of New York. And so I was looking for the chess addicts and they don't have them anymore, I don't think. I don't think they're there. - I think it was a lot gamier in the late '80s. - I guess they, there were still guys playing chess, but the park was like gorgeous. - It's a very beautiful park. - Yeah. I guess New York went through a huge change. - Yeah. - Thanks to the $150 million man. - Can we talk about "Villain Kid" for what's aged the best?

You think that's age the best? Just the actual look of villain kid is just like he either could have been in this movie or Damien Omen for the remake. He just has he has the hair. He has that like shitty look on his face.

And the kid's seven and you're just like, I fucking hate this kid. And he's a seven-year-old. But there's just something about how he carries himself that I love. I mean, what I love about this movie is Josh sees him and he's like, I don't want any parts of that. Right. Which I don't like that. It's like Rocky IV. It's like when he sees Drago for the first time. He's like, fuck. The whole...

By the way, that kid is Drago. You know how Rocky has a family and he loves people, yet Drago is legitimately created in a lab to do nothing but win? This kid has been training chess since he was four. And the professor is like Drago's trainer. Whenever he hits, he destroys. When the professor's like, he doesn't even go to school. He doesn't go to school. He don't do nothing but fuck over people in chess. Let's call him Drago from now on. That's all he does. And look,

doesn't have good connection to humans a dude makes a bad move he's watching he laughs yeah like he's just a little chess those are what the chess people are like though i think a lot of them the i don't know if the social skills because they're just in their own fucking chess world half the time what else do you have for what stage the best anything this is a small one but yo josh got them shoes on i don't know what they were like the fucking pump kicks that he has a heart

It's so good. Oh, the Reebok, the D Browns? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That had a nice run there. Those were the ones where my mom was like, we're not getting you those fucking shoes, bro. You're never going to use the pump. I'm like, I'll always fucking use the pump. What do you have, anything? Pop that pump real early. Um, uh,

fighting at these events like actually there's an actual physical fight yeah the actual physical parent fighting at the thing has aged really good you see it like all the time Instagram's been really good for those Instagram's been really good what does your dad say I laugh every single time he's like I wasn't scratching I was a pulling yeah um well they they had that one shot where they're just standing over the kids watching the match and like oh this isn't gonna go well just like nosy ass well-meaning teachers hmm you know what I'm saying um

I also like when the teacher, Drago's trainer, comes in, the old professor, and he's like, he never gives up. He's not going to disappoint his teacher. And just throws that at Bruce. Just to fuck with him. Just so we know, when we talk about a villain in a movie, villains in movies typically do things for no other reason other to torture your protagonist. He comes in, asks for the application,

gets the application, then puts the application on the table as he's leaving. His only purpose of coming in that day was to fuck with them. There was no other reason than to say, hey, here's the kid that's going to stop your run. That's it. It's my game. I loved it.

Big Kahuna Burger where best use of food and drink. It's giving the candy to Tony Shalhoub, right? I think it was gummy bears. Or gummy bears, whatever it is. But yeah, like I said, Monk, when I saw Monk, he just does something with his eyes where even though he just got his ass beat by, that is also great fucking movie making because you realize you're like, oh, this is a decent kid. Like he had so much fun. He doesn't want to like, be like, I just be an adult. He's like, nah, let's share some candy. Let's break bread. Mm-hmm.

Den of Thieves, Benny Hunter Award for scene-stealing location. The poker room you mentioned earlier that lived in New York City. I like that one, and I like the location of the last match was good, too. Oh, with them on the pedestal? Yeah, just they do that wide shot of the room. It's just cool. It looks very regal. So when you were saying the poker room, you mean like when they were all in there playing chess together? When they bring Josh in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Great Shot Gorder Award for most cinematic shot.

That what they do with Josh, when he's about to play the Drago and Drago looks over and Josh has gone from one seat, he's at another table. And then it goes back to the kid and he looks over and the seat's empty again. He's at another table. It's like how they do it. Like they're telling the story that he's winning, but they do it in like a cool way. And,

We're just focusing on Drago. I like the shot of knocking all of the chess pieces off of him. Oh, that's a good one too. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you're right. That's better. This isn't as good as that, but it reminded me, I'm like,

Fishburne, if you ever need a character in a movie to give your protagonist two choices, you get Fishburne. Because the beginning of this movie reminded me of the fucking Matrix, where he's like, you can take the night or you can take the baseball. And I'm like, this kid is like, he's taking the night. I'm like, Fishburne is fucking great at this shit.

The Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character is actually good at his job. It has to go to Bruce the teacher. Oh, it's definitely Bruce. Were you good at your job? Because now young Josh hates chess and you just made him cry and got told to leave his apartment. What he's like, it'll make my job harder. And then the wife is like, so your job's fucking harder. I'm like, yeah. Bruce comes into the movie. Shout out to Bruce.

And all Bruce does is bitch and complain. Bruce comes into the movie, first of all, steals the people money the first time. Goes up there and plays Life and Monopoly and Connect Four. I get it. Trying to do this. He didn't steal the money? That's stealing the money. It was... I'm getting to know him. He's building a connection. Ten minutes of us going back and forth. Let's get into some chess. We're paying you 60 bucks an hour. It was a lot of money. It's a golf war that was going on. But it...

That and then just every other time, Bruce doesn't come to the tournament. Bruce is like, what's with you, dog? What are we doing? You know what I mean? To quote Charles. Butch's girlfriend or word for the weak link of the film. Well, what do you guys have for this? I have one and I'm sick of this. I have the little sister and let me tell you why. I'm sick of these mute, know-nothing siblings in these movies that show up for no reason. I've talked about this before.

All of these movies. What was the movie we just did? We did it not too long ago. Bronx Tale. Bronx Tale. There's like a little sister in the movie for no apparent reason that serves no purpose other than to ask us, yo, what about the other kid? Now, there is another purpose because if it's an only child, maybe the psychology of that character is going to be slightly different. Give it to me. No, if it has a brother or sister, two brothers, whatever.

Then it's like this bigger family. You can kind of get lost in it. It makes more sense. And also he has a cute scene where he's like trying to teach his like baby sister how to play chess. And she's just like,

No, I want to play. And you're like, you realize that moment. You're like, oh, he's not. He's not a normal. I like where you're going with it, though. There is a lot of. I don't like sibling baggage. A little sibling bag. Give us something to do, man. I'm going to say, honestly, the other professor, dude, because I needed one or two more scenes of him really just being an asshole. Like he should have been looking at Josh's games being like your boys cook. So I had him in the Ruffalo hand Ruben. I purchased overacting word.

Because he's just so cartoonishly... He's the only one who's kind of like a cartoon character in this movie. He's got the big accent. But then he kind of disappears for the rest of the movie. He shows up, and then you're just like, where is he? And then it's just Drago for the whole movie. My weak link is the same as the hottest take. I just feel like Fishburne could have been in this movie for like 15 more minutes. And I would have moved some other stuff out. The problem is that... Well, it's not a problem. It's that...

So they're not going to let him in his house. That's not going to happen. So Fishburne never comes into the Waitzkin house. Then who was paying for his hotel bill? I mean, I'm saying. The Waitzkins had to. But there's only two people that have wisdom in this movie. It's him and it's the mom, right? Yeah, you're right. And the mom has the two best points in the movie. And I feel like Fishburne, there's more. I feel like he has more kernels to drop, but we never get it. The mom likely ran away with Fishburne after the movie. She's sick of it.

God damn it. That was my probably unanswerable question. Wait, you think the mom was feeling fish, man? The mom definitely divorced Joey Zop. Oh, that's definitely happened. Oh, I think it happened in Chicago. Fred went to bed and she's like, I'm too wired. I'm going to go take a walk. I think she went right to Vinny's room. Damn.

Vinny, is your room at a hotel bar? Are you in little bar bottles? What are you watching in there? What's going on in there? Can we talk about Josh for a second? Right. Vinny comes out. He's wearing a towel around his waist. He's looking around. Vinny's not a milk merchant. Where's your husband at? Stop. Yeah, Vinny. What's aged the worst? Everything about Bobby Fischer that you would ever read. Yeah, that's my answer. Really rough.

Can I say something real quick? Really, really. Can I say something about Bobby Fischer? Really rough. This might have been, Craig doesn't look like Craig. In 93, this movie made so much more sense. It did. And this was one of the first times that this has happened to me. Because remember, like, OJ or these other guys, I didn't really take any interest in those guys. It's definitely changed Naked Gun a little bit. Yeah, of course. Besides what I was told. After this, I got deep into Bobby Fischer.

I started reading about Bobby Fischer. I started looking up what I could look. There was not, wasn't any internet. So it was like, not like I could go and just like pull up. But I was really into Bobby Fischer. And then years ago when Bobby Fischer comes back and he's just totally whatever. It was very, very sad. I watched that 30 for 30. Was it a 30 for 30?

It was some... Anyway, this is great. I can't remember what it was. I should have probably looked it up before I got on the podcast. I don't think it was a 30 for 30. It might not have been a 30 for 30, but it was like... I mean, I could remember doing a Terminator 2 rewatchables with you two years ago. Right. But like the swan song of Bobby Fischer was so sad that it does change the movie a little bit. There's another What's Aged to Worst with this where... Like when I was growing up, there were these tortured geniuses in sports.

that y'all kind of liked, but at the same time, you know, they're a disaster. Like Bobby Knight was like that, the Indiana coach. It was like, this guy is like the best college basketball coach, but he's got these demons and he says crazy shit. And he's, yeah. And finally had to go. McEnroe was like that in tennis.

It was like, this guy is a fucking artist and he can't stay out of his own way. Draymond Green. Draymond Green now. Woody Hayes. Woody Hayes punched a player during a game. And Fisher was always lumped into this. This guy was the best. That's the name of the documentary that I'm talking about. Okay. Yeah, I'm sorry. HBO. HBO, that's what it was. I knew it. But anyway, so that was kind of his legacy of like torture genius. And then, you know, he set that on fire. The only other What's Aged to Worst is just...

Well, I'm going to, I'll save that for a nitpick. I have one that's a very small nitpick. If I was a kid and I was thinking about like, what could my father do to like take me on a fun vacation, take me away from chess? Not fishing? It wouldn't be fishing for two weeks. Yeah. Like I'm like, this sounds, that sounds terrible actually. Yeah, chess sounds more fun than fishing for two weeks. For two weeks? You're from, you know how to fish. Yeah. Would you want your dad to take you fishing for two weeks as a reward? I was about to say, you two city motherfuckers.

Like, you have no idea. You're going fishing with your dad. You're hanging out. You get there. It's just a lot of waiting on a boat. I've gone fishing with my dad. It was just like a lot of fucking waiting. I don't get fishing at all. I'm about to lose my goddamn mind hearing you guys talk about fishing. You go out there, get the boat, fish for some sacolet, fish for some bass. It's one of the best times you can have. Fishing trip.

with Van and his ringer crew. We're all going to go to Santa Barbara. Me and Kalika went to Santa Barbara during the pandemic, and we fished in the lake up there. It was fantastic. We spent the whole day on the lake in the boat fishing. Is this when you get your numbers officially? Okay. Was there a better title for this movie? I would say now, yes. Maybe.

Maybe go something else. Oh, actually, you could just... Like, bring the queen out or something. You could bring the queen out. That's a Beyonce movie. Like, you could just... You could actually do the same title with just a question mark. Searching for Bobby Fischer? Really? Like, do it, really? Like, do it.

Like the same title, just, do you want to find him? Could it be, why Bobby, why? Why Bobby, why? Seven question marks. Could you have gotten like a more cliche one where it's just like me and Vinny and that's the, that's like, Lawrence Fishburne is really in the movie. I mean, the cliched one would have been like Checkmate. Yes. Something like that, yeah. Yeah. Um,

Best quote we, I mean, it's anything from that speech. So Charles is here with really one of the professional hot take givers at the ringer. You're certainly in the upper, upper, upper echelon. You've been known to throw a take around from time to time. What do you have for your Stephen A. Smith hottest take award? All right. It might be because I'm finally out of my twenties. I'm 31 now.

Bruce was fucking right. You need contempt for your enemies. And I don't know what this movie is trying to teach the youth, but you're at a tournament, bro. If Josh was my son, I'm just like, I get that you're a decent guy, but don't try to tie this point. Kill the seven-year-old kid. Beat his fucking ass. I do think that this is probably...

responsible for about 10 to 15% of the participation trophy award culture that I grew up in when I was an athlete. And at the end of the year, I would get a trophy and I'm like,

I sucked. I didn't score any goals in soccer. Why am I getting a trophy? And this movie, I think, is patient zero for that. So this movie is a participation trophy movie. That's a fantastic... This is ground zero for participation trophy culture. Josh offering a draw. Well, here's the thing. He's got a good heart. Was Bruce wrong? Was Bruce wrong by saying, like, yo, you need to have contempt?

for your enemies. I thought, I'm like, that is good. You should tell that to a player. Yeah. You know what's funny? It's a pretty good take. So you're saying your deals kill all competition. You guys are going to get along so well while you're here. You and Bill are going to be on the same page. I hate everybody. I just want to win. Either with me or against me.

What do you got for hottest take, Ben? Oh, my hottest take is actually wrapped into my unanswerable question. Yeah. Is that like her and Vinny definitely ran away together. Like they definitely, my hottest take is they definitely ran away together. Like they definitely had hot interracial,

I mean, she basically, there's a subplot to the movie to where she didn't want him to stop going to the park because she didn't want him to stop giving her a reason to see Venice.

The entire time. Vann's right. There is another plot where they're going to the park and she's like putting makeup on. She's like, why are you getting ready to go? Oh, because I'm going out with the girls after. But it's really because she's going to the park. Did Josh at any point in this subplot call Vinny dad? Yeah. His pops right there. Shout out to them, man. Casting what ifs. Oh, this is interesting. Laurence Fishburne's role was originally offered to Ice-T. Wait, what? Oh, that's interesting.

In what way, then? Because, okay. It's a worse movie. It's a worse movie, but Ice-T does have this, Ice-T has this, like, really relatable...

on-screen things where in that role playing somebody that had that type of edge, there's a world where that works. People say whatever. Ice-T is great on camera. Great on camera. It was a nice time for Ice-T to be there. I have a hot take, but I can't say it because this is not a safe space. But there is a movie out there, one of probably his most popular roles, that Ice-T makes probably 10 or 15% worse. What's the movie? Say it. New Jackson.

Oh, you out of your motherfucking mind. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, like, it's, like, this is, like I said, this is, this is the thing. Everybody who listens to the Midnight Boys is like, that's Charles. But there's no fucking way, bro. Like, that movie is legitimately what I was referencing when I'm talking about the fact that he has a way on screen that he delivers that. You like him in New Jackson. Get a,

Yeah, I'm not even having this conversation. He delivers that kind of real, real visceral shit. As always with Charles, I appreciate the take.

I think he's good at New Jack City, though. Of course he is! What? He got favorable reviews when we did it. Of course he's good. It's the best work he's done. Max Pomerantz chose it because he was a real-life chess player. Not to the level, but that's why his chess stuff seemed real because he actually played. And then the real Bruce is...

This is just what I copy and pasted. A Brooklynite with a mustache, glasses, and curly brown hair, friendly and soft-spoken. Huh. So that guy must have been like, the fuck? I'm a nice guy. Here's the thing, though. If Ben Kingsley was playing me as well as Ben Kingsley plays Bruce in this, I'd be like, I'm not an asshole, but fuck, come on. He's killing it. Ben, do you like Ben Kingsley more in this movie or Species? Oh.

But first of all, I went to see Species for various specific reasons. Don't think it's not on the 2024 slate. I love it. I like him more in this movie. But like Ben Kingsley is one of those guys. He is a prime video guy.

fucked up movie veteran. 100%. Sexy beast. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So like Kingsley, he doesn't... He gets around there as far as what he does. He spreads it around a little bit. He certainly doesn't make movies worse. He doesn't. He doesn't do it at all. He's like the Jeff Green of...

of movies. He's almost a guy to me. Even though he won an Oscar. He won an Oscar, but then he went back into being a guy. Yeah, he became character actor Ben Kingsley. Ben Kingsley was Gandhi, correct? He was. This was my first, that was my first introduction to him in school. I was like, oh, were they? Okay, cool. So, Ben Kingsley. Love him in this movie. Lesson gone. Controversial Oscar because, if I'm remembering this correctly, he...

beat paul neiman in the verdict which is a really tough one tough for paul let me see yeah he beat paul neiman in the verdict and he beat dustin hoffman and tootsie which is an absolutely loaded year you would have thought that paul would have you know what i mean is that one of the oscars that's aged the worst probably yeah but gandhi was a thing when it came out i mean i was much younger but it was it was a really important big movie and they don't

Those things don't... It was back in the day when movies like that came out every year and everybody had to say it was the best movie. But now I just think we look at movies differently. Yeah. Like, I think the verdict... I think Newman would have won. I think Tootsie would have been... Tootsie probably would have won Best Picture over Gandhi. It was hard for... I mean... It was Sir Richard Attenborough and it's just...

There was a little different reverence for a certain type of film. Big, sprawling, giant historical dramas, well-acted, huge score. I was just thinking about Chariots of Fire. We don't even talk about Chariots of Fire as much as we... But the theme from Chariots of Fire and the whole deal, it lasted for a long time about how important the movie was. Do you know whose favorite movie Chariots of Fire is?

I'll give you 100 guesses. He's over 80 years old, and he's in all of our lives. Joe Biden. Joe Biden. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Would you listen to a Joe Biden rewatchables about Chariots of Fire? Absolutely not. You would not? The good thing about it is we could put on Belly and just tell him it was Chariots of Fire, and he wouldn't fucking know.

They're going to be so mad at that. That's going to be the one that gets me fucked up. Of all the things that I've said, we're not taking it out. Fuck it. He's old. I don't give a fuck. We can talk about it then. I'm going to move on. Oh, let's take a break. Kickstart the school year with Apple gift card. You can send it via email or send a physical card to your loved ones.

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Best that guy award. Tony Shalhoub was a that guy when they made this movie. Now he's Tony Shalhoub. I don't think he counts.

Well, in that case, you can't really, none of them count. None of them. They were all that guys who graduated. Yeah, so I don't know if we have. Maybe. Maybe the professor, the evil guy, evil. I've never seen him. Most of the that guys have healthier careers than the main cast does right now, which makes this very difficult. So Dion Waiters, we're giving a Tony Shalhoub. Shout out to Laura Linney though. Shout out to Laura Linney for sure. Really good in that. Recasting couch. I don't know if I'd touch this movie.

Would you change anybody? Maybe the professor? I have two people for Vinny. Vinny, what do you got? Who? I'm crashing this, but Samuel L. Jackson as Vinny would be fan. We just had him in Under Siege in the Gary Busey part. But they did it in Fresh. He essentially is Vinny in Fresh. Shout out to boys. Yeah, but I think Fishburne is like OG. Have nothing against him. But if Samuel L. Jackson's in this role, like...

I'll tell you what. This Samuel L. Jackson, Lawrence Fishburne thing. It's like a seven-season narrative podcast. You know, you should like this thing that... Quentin came on. Quentin. I don't fucking know that dude. Tarantino came on the pod and did a whole fucking thing. The Rewatchables. How he wrote Pulp Fiction for Lawrence Fishburne. It's just like these guys were interchangeable at one time. You know what I mean? This is a hard question. Who would you take? Both of you. Six and one half dozen of the other.

Really? Really? It's your recasting. Six and one. I mean, the other recasting, you guys are going to think I'm crazy, but it crashes your other category. Danny Trejo as Vinny. Oh, interesting. Would be so good. Like, really good. I like that one even actually more than, you know. Have fast internet research. We did most of it. And there's a lot. You can go read, Google the movie and read about all the real life chess people. Yeah.

The Russians, some of these people are real, including the Russian player in the park that he plays in the beginning who slept in the park and would wake up. There's just a lot of hardcore. It depends how much you care. The Josh Wadskin part,

So he left chess and became a Chinese martial arts guy? Yeah. And won multiple world championship titles in Chinese martial arts, including in jiu-jitsu, and is a BJJ black belt. I don't even know what that means. Brazilian jiu-jitsu. Okay. Gracie family, all of those guys, UFC. Apex Mountain. Chess movies. I'm going to say yes. I say yes, yeah. Definitely Max the Kid. I love Fresh, but... Max the Kid. Joe Mantegna? No. No.

Joey Zaza? Joey Zaza still. I honestly, if this movie had done better, I would say it's this, but it made only half the money of the budget. You know, it's funny. Maybe it's belatedly this, but it's not in the moment. I think Godfather 3 was bigger for him because that was a huge movie. It still made money. The thing is, the movie didn't make

as big a big enough impact you know how you look at somebody else and you go there's fucking barzini yeah it's fucking tatalia there's fucking whoever right joy zaza is not quite to that level but it's probably would still be that movie over over this got nominated for best best oscar for best picture oscar yeah it probably is can i can i pitch y'all on an apex mountain yeah

live action movies that came out this year. I think this might be the apex for this certain... We have The Sandlot, Cool Runnings, Hocus Pocus, and then the remake of Homeward Bound. And on the animated side, Batman, Mask of the Phantasm, Nightmare Before Christmas. Like, this is like... The whole 90s was a great year, but I was looking at like 92, 93, 94, 95. Like, Disney Renaissance is happening, and they're...

Like, if you look at the Disney Plus live-action movies they're making now, they do not look like cool runnings or searching for Bobby Fishers. They don't... They're not even written that way. This is like the apex for a certain level of... We're not slumming it in children's movies. We're actually going to try to tell a very complex, nuanced story. Yeah. Which I...

I think they kind of quit that shit by the 2000s. Well, partly because this movie only made 7 million bucks, right? They didn't. But it's VHS. We're not factoring in like how much did this make on the VHS market. And the rewatchability. All that stuff. You're right. I mean, I was just out of college in 93 and I went to all these movies and it was just an unbelievable movie year in general.

And it's so different than it is now. It was just every week there was like two movies that came out. I want to see that. I want to see that. Phil, come on. We get a new MCU Disney Plus show every year. Like, it's a pretty good era. Yeah, well, it's shifted to TV. Miss Marvel. Apex Mountain for bringing out your queen early? Hell yeah. Well, it depends. That's a good, like, good little, like, I'm blanking on...

A way to say... I can't speak all of a sudden. Like a little joke that you could say, like if you're at a bar. Bringing out your queen early? Yeah. I don't know. You think I'm a long block?

But it's just like the euphemism. That's the word I was looking for. But it sounds like a euphemism that could be used to different things. Yeah, you bring out your queen early? Are you bringing it out now? Bring it out now. Okay, cool. I don't know. Work shopping it. Your queen might get took. Bring it out too early. Uh-oh. My ticket queen. Got taken. I like that. Vin, what chess piece are you? That's a great question. I like when Bruce answers it for him. You're this one. Yeah. It's the king. Um...

See, the only reason why I would say I'm the king is because really the king is like, he's really kind of the most useless. I'm important, but yet useless at the same time. Moving one step at a time. Moving one step. Four directions. Everybody thinks you have more potential than you actually do. Come on. You need a lot of protection.

Apex Mountain for Ben Kingsley, no. No. Apex Island for Joan Allen, no. She's in a movie. She finally peaked in a starring movie called The Contender that's excellent. Yeah. And I don't think it did as well as maybe it should have. But it's the kind of movie they don't make anymore. Yeah, it's Christian Slater, Jeff Bridges. Jeff Bridges is the president. Yeah, fucking sharks. Really good president. It's good. Great movie. Lawrence Fishburne. I think you can make a case between this and What's Love Got to Do With It same year.

Really? Because he gets nominated for an Oscar. I think this might be the year for him. The 93 Lawrence Fishburne. I think this is around where it is. It's two years after Boys in the Hood. And now he's getting major parts. He's leading a movie. It seems like the sky's the limit. The only problem is the Morpheus problem. I feel like Morpheus is definitely... So you go Matrix. Just because it's literally one of the greatest films ever made. And he is...

Like, it literally is one of the greatest movies ever made. That's probably the first movie on the obituaries. Like, Lawrence Fishburne, Matrix. So, would it be like Oscar nominee Lawrence Fishburne or would it be like Lawrence Fishburne, The Matrix star? Like, we're also forgetting, and this sucks for Lawrence Fishburne, like, the red pill, blue pill. Like, when the meat, like, it's just, he's so much, his face means, you think of that movie, to me at least. It's fair. How about Evil Kids? I'm going to say no. Nah. Any other Apex? No.

We did chess movies, right? Washington Square. Washington Square Park. This is my apex movie, Washington Square Park. Is there another Washington Square Park movie that's bigger than this? There has to be. Like where it's like a main part or just walking by it? Just where it's like a main part of it. I mean, Washington Square Park is in I Am Legend, but like not very because he lives right there. When Harry Met Sally, they like walk through it. It's true. When Harry Met Sally, it was a big deal. It's a bigger character in this, but... All right, pick a Nets.

Bruce, my wife hates you. Would you like to come to Chicago for the tournament? Just not happening. Once she kicks him out of the house, Bruce isn't coming to Chicago? I had that question too. And they never piece it up. They never piece it up. Never has one more moment with her. Nah, you gotta piece it up at some point. By the way, that's like the second or third time she kicked his fucking ass. She kicked his ass in the diner and then ate a salad. Fuck you. Then she kicked him out of the house. Bruce is done. Bruce can't come

Should we bring Vinny from the park? Yeah, let's do it. We'll get him a plane ticket. What? Yeah. That was weird. They also... We needed a scene where they were like, yo, sorry, Vinny. Like, we were kind of assholes. Because, like, there's that scene where...

the mom is walking Josh by the park and they don't even like wave or say hi and Josh is like heartbroken. I'm like, we couldn't have seen y'all say like, yo, sorry, man. This would be a good rewatchables category. If you could have only added one scene, what would it be? Because my scene would be either the mom or the dad going to the park to talk to Vinny about Josh. Yes. And Josh telling some

Like, basically Fishburne getting his, here's my Oscar speech for if I get nominated for Best Supporting Actor, they'll play this 90 seconds. He'd be giving some speech about, you know, when I was growing up or whatever it is. Just some background with him. This is what the speech is. The speech is what happened to him. Yeah. Drove his life into where it is right now. Yeah. And it makes the parents think about

how they want to love and show up for Josh. It's like, you know, I was a, maybe there's some old fucking picture of him. He goes in his wallet. Let me show you something. Puts a cigarette in his mouth. Let me show you something right here. And he holds up him. That's me right there. Harlem chess champion. 1978. First one. First black champion. First black champion, right? You know who this is? The fucking groundskeeper guy from Rudy.

Oh, yeah. Another magical Negro, by the way. But the fucking groundskeeper. He is magical. Like the fucking groundskeeper guy from Rudy who was so mad at racism that he derailed his football career and blamed himself. He blames himself for it. Okay? It wasn't that people were actually being racist towards him. He was mad about it. But anyway, I digress. Van, can I say something about that point? What?

At the end, his clap. That is an all-time clapper. He's so overcome with emotion. He's a one clap and a very, he almost broke his fucking wrist clapper for Rudy, bro. Is this your audition for the Rudy pod? Love it. Love it. Rudy, at TMZ, I worked with Rudy's friend.

You know Rudy's friend who gets burned in the fucking thing, Pete? Yeah. That guy, you ever watch TMZ? And when you hear, hey, this is a, that guy is Rudy's friend. Pete from Notre Dame? Yeah. Oh my God. That guy is Rudy's friend that gets burned up and that makes Rudy go to Notre Dame. How many times did you guys talk about this? I used to ask him about it all the time. He's a great guy. He's one of the nicest guys I've ever met. Real quick though, nitpick. He was a super guy.

I didn't realize how fast they're just like, Josh knows how to play chess now. I was just like, there wasn't like some intimate. Yeah, we needed like a montage scene of him in the park. That's why I asked. I asked, is chess one of those things? You know how Will Hunting says, with this kind of stuff, I could always just play? Is chess one of those things to where if you're fucking dope at chess, you just look at the chessboard and the fucking chessboard just makes sense? I still think there's things about it. Like, I took your piece. Where do I put it?

What are these things with I have to hit this button? It doesn't feel like you hop in. Like, oh, you're going to knock over the queen. Like, all the stuff I was like. Even he's seven, he's going to be like, do I get to go two times in a row? Yes. He just instinctively knows every piece out of you. It's a good nitpick. I have a nitpick. No shots fired at Max, who is really good in this, but.

Little Josh is supposed to be like this. He's a really good athlete. And then we see him get a hit in the game and he's running a first base. His limbs are going five different. I'm like, all right, they could have body doubled that or something. I thought that the point of that scene was that he's lying about how good he is. Oh, interesting. Because he's not running like an awesome eight-year-old athlete. I thought he was like doing the thing that a seven or eight-year-old did. He's like, yo, I got like.

Like, I slam dunked like fucking four or five fucking times. And then you see him, he's like barely going to. And then you see the game, you're just like, you're on the bench. Also, at the end, would all the other kids be that happy for Josh? Would you have a pouring in of all these weird chess kids who just are devastated they lost the tournament? They're going to be like, oh, Joshua. It's a weird ending. The kids, period, are just like. Why are they still there? I'd be in the fucking car going home. Yeah. Yeah.

Get me out of here. I lost. But at this time, maybe they are molded by being nerds. Like they want to see what the formations of the strategy of the last game and shit like that. I was also thinking they got to keep strong together. This is the 1980s. Y'all were still a little bit uninvolved. You know what I'm saying? You weren't shoving people in the lockers. They're like, yo, there's more of us than there are of them. They're babies. They're little kids. Whoa, whoa, whoa. There weren't bullies when you were seven or eight?

Nah, dog. I don't know. Maybe they were. I think they were. DeMille. Shout out to DeMille. I had to put someone on his motherfucking ass. Any other picks? I had to fuck DeMille up. You looking at it now. I'm thinking about it now. I told my dad. I was like, yo, I'm having a fight tomorrow. My dad was like, what? This motherfucker keep trying to steal chips. I will get chips.

If you had the highest grades in the class, you would get chips. You'd get a little chip party every Friday. DeMille tried stealing my chips. And one Friday, I waited for him to reach for a chip. What type of fucking prison school were you going to where they were waiting for your fucking chips after class? DeMille. Chip stealing. He was trying to steal your chips because I would have to, you know, want to steal your chips. He tried to reach for my chips. I'm like, no, he ain't stealing my chips no more, motherfucker. No, that's it. You got me thinking about old trauma. Sequel, prequel, prestige, TV, all black cast are untouchable.

I have a prestige pitch for you. Let's hear it. Queen's Gambit 2? A24 limited series. Yeah. Netflix is like, yo, Queen's Gambit is going crazy. In the Ben Kingsley role, we have Adam Driver at his creepy girl's peak, like just like a fucking freak of nature having to teach this kid. Yeah. And then for Vinny, we have Lakeith Stanfield. That works. Oh, yeah.

At worst. And you just do it as a series. Just the same, but the same one? Same story, but then we get into, like, the twisted backstory of Drago and his family. Oh, yeah. He's not going to school. Like, his family, I think, this is all Wikipedia research. Like, they were, like, running from the law and, like...

Trying to escape it. I'm just like, oh, we could do like, oh, the good kid from the good family against Drago. It would be fucking basically like. I would definitely watch the first episode. I would do all black cast, but it's going to be too cliche. If you do all black cast, because it's going to be, is this kids only ticket out?

It's his chess ability. You said Kevin Hart is fucking Vinny. I'm going to fucking leave. All black cats, it's too serious for all black cats because it's going to be, nah, this kid's got to play chess for the whole hood. How about Tyler Perry gets checkmate? Man, stop. Stop. Tyler Perry brings out his queen too soon. Like, leave.

Whoa. All right. That's a callback to a previous joke. That was fair. Jesus.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Dade Atreo, Catherine Hunt, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Byron Mayo, or Philip Baker Hall? Kind of did the Sam Jackson thing. Yeah, we already did the Sam Jackson. We did Sam Jackson and Dade Atreo. Buscemi as the father. Does it still work? Well, Buscemi definitely could have been one of the other parents. Like he could have been the David Pamer part. To an official? Yeah. One of those guys. Just one Oscar who gets it. I actually think it's the script.

I'll give it to Zalien. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that script was the most Oscar worthy thing. I said the movie. It won. It's won cinematography though, I think. Yeah. It got nominated. Oh, just got nominated. Yeah. Probably unanswerable questions. Did Drago, was that, did he choke in the last game? Was that a choke? What are the news? What's, what's Stephen A saying the next day on first take? He didn't choke. He is so arrogant that it costs him. His lack of humanity is,

Josh's humanity is what won the match. His lack of being able to see through being a chess machine is what lost it. So he just wasn't, he, like, he couldn't see the board. I mean, Josh is just more talented. He couldn't see the board. He couldn't see. So he just, his rigidness cost him the championship. Stephen A would say, you took his queen and you lost? You're supposed to be the best. He will eat the table. The table.

Are either of you guys a bring out the queen early guy? Or would you be patient? Because when I played Fortnite, when I played with my son, I was the opposite of a bring out the queen early. I was a lay low, try to wait until the numbers get down to like 20, and then make my move. And my son was a bring out the queen early. He's just getting it. No, I'm going to wait and watch the other motherfucker play. Assess the situation.

Because, you know, I don't got, if we're playing video games, I don't got specs in all the different shit. So you're going to take the bullets. I can't. I am, in chess, I would be a more patient. I'm the ADD. You're bringing it out early? Yeah, for sure. Best double feature choice with this movie? I have a good one. Rebound, the Earl Manigault story. Oh, Don Cheadle. Yep. Good one. New York City. Yeah.

legendary basketball player. Really good run of HBO, made for HBO movies right then. Bro, you know what movie I can't find real quick? HBO did a Rat Pack movie

Oh, I watched that on YouTube like six months ago. It's fantastic. It's legitimately a great movie. The Late Shift is a great movie. That's a really, really good one. When the band played on, I think is the best one of all of them. You're talking about and the band played on. And the band played on, sorry. Like, fantastic. Yeah. They were really, really in their shit. They spent real money on those. Yeah, so, but yeah, so I would do Rebound because when I thought about the movie, I thought about New York Story.

Mythical athlete, the whole nine. And if you want to get a little bit more adult after the Bobby Fischer situation, I will watch that one with you. The Rat Pack movie? Joe Mantegna is Dean Martin. Sure is. Don Cheadle is Sammy Davis. Ray Liotta. He's fucking awesome. Isn't it an HBO movie? Yeah. Ray Liotta is Frank Sinatra.

But Don Cheadle is, and the Sammy parts are the best parts of the movie. This is early Cheadle. This is like mid-late 90s? It's the rise of him as a wow, like this guy can go. Like Don is as a rise. It's all about them trying to get Kennedy elected and then afterwards Frank doesn't,

doesn't get it. It's fucking awesome. They should just put it back on. There is a scene with Don at Sammy Davis Jr. where he's doing his Sammy Davis Jr. two-gun routine, but Sammy's in his head and he's dealing with all the racism and stuff like that and he's just performing his ass off shooting it

It's just, the movie's really, really good. The stuff it does with Sammy is like as good as any Sammy content I've ever seen, I think. Because nobody's ever really landed the plane on a Sammy project. But that one is like, and like he's dating white women. Like it goes on all that. Like he's, him and Dean are kind of the stars of the movie. They, he's dating and the Ava Gardner, Frank Sinatra stuff is good too. Yeah. He's dating, he's dating, he's the woman, he can't come to the White House.

Because he's in an interracial relationship. Yeah. They're campaigning for Kennedy. Yeah, you can watch that on YouTube. They're doing this whole thing. He can't come to the White House because he's dating. It's really good. It's a really good movie. All of those movies from the, all those made for HBO movies should just be fucking, what is Warner Brothers doing? Just put that shit back on. They also are really good. They also did one with Joe, with Joe Tuturo as Sam Giancana and with his relationship with the lady from the Maguire sister. I can't remember the name. It's like,

Yeah. They were all really good. And Gia was the Angelina Jolie breakout movie. Yep. That was her LeBron 48-point game against the Pistons. 99, 2000? It was before. It was like her first one. Yeah. Yeah.

There you go. That's your little 90s HBO education. And if they're bringing stuff back to HBO, do that, but also do Hookers and Johns, Hookers at the Point, Pimps Up, Holes Down. Bring back all of that stuff. That's classic content that's just gone. House and I loved the autopsy show so much that we would call each other after the new episode when it would end and we would call each other and be like, oh. Because it was Dr. Michael Baden.

And it would be like, and the wife, she disappeared. The dead man tell no tales or something like that. They found her in the side of the kitchen. Yeah.

That was like the earliest true crime. It was, for sure. What era was this? Was this Oz era? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay, yeah. And they also had that one guy who had killed like a million people. What was his name? The mob hitman guy. They kept interviewing him over and over and over again. The Iceman. Iceman. The Iceman dude. And they would talk to him. HBO had stuff about being in actual jail. It was like just the best. It was the best content. Did you ever watch Oz?

Oz freaked me out so much as a kid. I'm just like... Did you watch it, Craig? No. It's indescribable. All right. We got to wrap this up. The Indian Red Zawadney Award. What happened the next day? I literally wrote Fishburne took a crack at Josh's mom that night. I did a little tester.

What piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie? It has to be the knight that he keeps going back to. The little piece. Oh, interesting. That he gets in the beginning of the movie. I was going to say the framed picture. Imagine like the framed chess master picture that he gives him. Just putting that right there in front of the seven up.

poster we got? Oh, I'd also take his kicks. I'd also take Josh's kicks. Oh, the original pumps? Yeah. What do you got, Van? I could not think of one. How about the framed picture? The framed picture is cool. The gummy bears, that little... Oh, you know what I did like? Real quick. That's where we gotta go. I like the... It's a chess board, but it's also like a piece of furniture that they're playing on. Oh, yeah. Those things, I always thought those things were cool. I would actually have one of those in my house, and if I had one from Searching for Bobby Fischer, it would be dope.

Bozeman would pee on it. Coach Finstock or best life lesson? Have contempt for your enemies. Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, it's like fucking sack up. I was gonna, I had originally the only thing that matters in life is impressing your dad, but I think yours is better. What I will say too, this movie, my last point would be this movie kind of illustrates how you can never get in between the relationship between a mom and a child, but

I've never felt as bad as like the three or four times when my dad would come home and be like,

you let me down. And I'm like, this movie emotionally is probably why it's so affecting is I'm like, every single time I'm just like, Oh, what were the life lessons I learned? I'm like, it was when I let my dad down. He had to sit me down and be like, I'm not even going to like beat your ass. Like we're, I'm not yelling. We're going to have a talk about like what life is. I'm not mad, son. I just thought you were better than me. God damn. I'm sorry. I apologize. What I got to do. You know what I mean? Tough. Yeah. Yeah.

I came home from college freshman year with a 2.5 and my dad held the transcript and he's like what are we doing it was one of those I was like sorry dad this might be too deep have you ever had to have that talk with Ben and be like oh I'm now the disappointed dad like did you feel bad in that moment like fuck you know it's coming

It hasn't 100% happened yet, but I will happily do it. You're going to happily do it? It's not going to destroy you a little bit? No, you have to do it. Ben is a fucking force of nature. It's part of the dad job. Ben is a fucking force of nature. I just got to make sure he keeps going this way. Just straight. Ben, just real quick. Ben hit me up one time. I'm over there. Ben's like, yo, come over here. I'm listening to something. And he puts, it's the fucking purple tape.

Right, he's 16. The fuck, dog? I would be impressed. I'd be like, all right. I was fucking impressed. I'm like, why are you on Raekwon? I was listening to this. Like, what's going on? Nah, I'd be indifferent. Who won the movie? Oh, man. I thought Chess won the movie, is what I'm saying. But it's Josh. It's Josh to me.

It has to be Josh because Josh rewrites, like, they're rewriting history in this movie where it's like, if you've never heard about any of this, you're just like, God damn, Josh might be the best

child chess prodigy I've ever met. And then you read it. So like real life Josh. Well, yeah. The whole Waitzkin family, I think, won. If the movie is so even, it's hard to say that an actor won the movie. If I had to say an actor won the movie, it would probably be Joe Mantagna. But like the movie is so, this is one of the most even films I've ever did. So it feels like the character of Josh and what the character represent actually won the film. I think that's the right answer. I was going to say that or chess.

Because this is a movie that if it would actually make somebody want to start playing chess. Right. It's more likely to make them want to start playing chess than stop playing chess. All right, it's time. Craig, another movie you'd never seen or heard of before. What'd you think? I don't know if I'd heard of it or not. One other life lesson though, I think is...

Make your child as multi-sport athlete don't ever force them to just play one sport. That's always the like always Diversifying the portfolio of sports like even if he's really good at one thing like I'm always gonna allow my kid and encourage him to play multiple sports kids - yeah, we are um You guys are gonna hate this. I couldn't quite get there with this movie. Oh You're not a chess guy. How old are you 29? It feels like you had to be there movie I had never seen it as a kid and

I felt like you either had to be a kid when you first saw it or you had to see it when it came out. I'm not a parent now, so I don't have that relationship either. You don't have a heart. That's awesome. No, I don't know. This movie didn't pass the phone test for me. And I don't try to look at my phone ever when I watch a movie. And this movie, I found myself like, man, what's going on on Twitter right now? I think it's slow. I got to be honest. God damn, bro. That is not who I am. I am like a watch the movie guy, I promise. What?

I think the lessons and the themes of this movie are better than the actual movie. Okay. Actually, you know what? To be honest with you, to be honest with you, you do have... Because you're not a Christmas vacation guy, right? I like it more than vacation. Okay. I figured he would feel that way. What do those have to do with one another? I see it. Because the reason why I say that is because sometimes with movies like that, there's this...

underlying magic sizzle that you have to buy into for that movie to make sense. And then it keeps sizzling for years after. It keeps sizzling for years after. And if you don't buy into the theme of the movie, then it's not... I'm just in the worst... I'm 29 years old. I have no kids. I had never heard of this movie. I'm just sitting down putting this on. It's just like, yeah, the magic doesn't strike me.

Right. You know what I mean? And I was very formative at that point. Also, the story of Bobby Fischer, which I'm not sure if you knew it or not, has been written down. Yeah, like I knew about him, but I didn't know really much. I get it. Also, I couldn't understand a fucking thing the kid was saying in the narration. I thought it was terrible.

Oh my. Wow. Jesus Christ. You went too far. No shame. I couldn't understand him. You flew too close to the sun, bro. I'm not insulting anybody. It's called subtitles. I couldn't. I am so against subtitles and watching things. I couldn't understand him. I was like, I don't know what this kid's saying. I couldn't understand Ben Kingsley half the time.

I didn't know Stephen A. Smith fucking walked into the fucking goddamn fucking rewatching stage. Before we go, what's the ringer verse kind of comic book version of this movie? What a good question. Comic book version of this movie, it had to be heartwarming, imparts a lot of life lessons. But what's Josh's like...

He's a chess player, but he's also a staff member. Oh, what character is he? If they MCU'd this movie. Who's the best chess superhero player? Oh, you know who it is? It's Xavier. Xavier and Magneto play chess all the time. That is correct. In the first X-Men movie. What movie is that?

X-Men, Bill. X-Men. You Jackman? That's not about Xavier McDaniel? No. No. Charles Xavier, as in the founder of the school for gifted youth. You're just doing this. Yeah, you're doing this on purpose. I also like chess. I played chess as a kid. My grandpa taught me growing up. Oh, yeah.

I like chess. Trying to think, what's the- Chess is fun. I don't know. What's the MCU version of something like this? Basically a movie where someone blah, blah, blah. I don't know, bro. It's a town with multiple mentors and it could go either way. Oh, Spider-Man. Easily. Oh, Spider-Man. Yeah, probably. It's definitely Tom Holland's Spider-Man, you know? Okay. That motherfucker, Eddie, because he got Doctor Strange, he got Iron Man. He got Nick Fury. He got Nick Fury. All the adults are just like, he's a prodigy, but we got to keep him on the right path. Charles, that's 10 more points for you.

Come on. You're 520 away from a rewatchables master degree. That's it for the rewatchables. Thanks, guys. It was a pleasure. Happy holidays.