‘Sea of Love’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Wosny Lambre
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Co-hosted by Big Waz, who's here today. Good to see you. As well as our guy, CR, who's on the watch. He pops on the big picture. He'll pop on the Ringer Philly special from time to time. Yeah, we'll see. We're taping this before the Big Eagles game on Sunday. We'll see if you go into hiding if the Eagles lose or whether you'll show your face. I guess we'll find out. My name is Bill Simmons. And come the wet-ass hour, I'm everybody's daddy! See you. Love is next.

A mystery he couldn't unravel. I heard from one of you guys you caught a good one. Face down taxpayer, back of the head in his own bed. A woman like he had never known. She's a suspect, Frank. Just walk away. I believe in love at first sight. I believe in this. A choice you would have to make. There's some psycho woman out there killing guys. Al Pacino. Don't you move! Sea of Love. Rated R. Starts Friday, September 15th at a theater.

All right, guys, so this was on Netflix. Waz, you had never seen it? I'd never seen it.

I'd never seen it. I was home. My lady was over here. Generally, the only movies that we can watch together are rom-coms or basically erotic thrillers or whatever. And so I see Al Pacino, so I'm interested, and I read the description of the movie, and I'm like, yeah, this has to happen. And so I popped this thing in, and I have to say, I was absolutely blown away.

It's a classic. CR, it's been trending. I mean, we were taping this on a Friday, but it was in the top three or four trending movies on Netflix for a week. This is a classic movie.

really, really good late 80s, early 90s movies. And now it's been 30 plus years and it kind of slips through the cracks. I hadn't even seen it on the cable channels in a couple of years, but I love this movie. I know you do too. Yeah, I love this movie. This is pure Richard Price right here based loosely on one of his early novels. And Richard Price then went on to become like one of the great screenwriters in Hollywood, did Color of Money, which we've done on this pod. He wrote for The Wire. He did The Night Of. And this is just...

Just loose talk, electric, coked out, drunken Pacino. Everybody is talking shit. Cops are dirty. The women are fast. It's just, it's everything I want in a New York cop movie. It's heaven. I want to get to Pacino in a second. I want to talk about this weird classification of a movie that, you know, it ties back to the 40s and 50s, but then Body Heat brought it back, which we've done on the rewatchables. It's the people that fall in love

And one of the two people might be a murderer and actually might want to kill the other person. And it's this, do they or don't they? Does she or doesn't she? So Jagged Edge was another great one like this with Jeff Bridges and Glenn Close. She's defending him in a murder trial. Was he the killer? No, he couldn't be. He's so handsome. He's such a great guy. I shouldn't fall for him. Oh no, I'm falling for him.

Black Widow was another one, even though it was Deborah Winger and Teresa Russell, they never ended up really together, but they had some sort of weird sexual chemistry thing going. And it was like, is she the bad person? Is she not? Why did they stop making movies like this? Where I have to decide, is this person who's falling in love with a character that I like, are they actually a murderer or not? This wins every time.

Well, when we're prosecuting sexual politics now, we concentrate on the politics and not the sex.

And so, you know, that Netflix movie that just came out where the chick and the dude work at the same job and she gets a better job. Yeah. Right. They spend basically most of that movie adjudicating how dudes feel about women ascending in the workplace. Whereas this movie, like, there is that sort of...

You know, this guy has fucked up views about women and their place in a relationship. But this movie concentrates on their sexual chemistry. And who has the sexual upper hand? Who's dictating the terms of the relationship? They don't really care about this guy's understanding of a woman's quote-unquote place in a relationship. And I think nowadays...

People feel the need to prosecute that other question, whereas what I'm more interested in is why Al Pacino wants to fuck a serial killer. To me, that's the more interesting question. Because the action is the juice. Come on. That's why.

Well, Adrian Lyon did this too, right? He did this in nine and a half weeks was another one with Mickey work and Kim Basinger where it's like, this relationship is bad, but I can't resist this guy. I can't stay away. This was a theme. This is basic instinct, right? Which comes after this movie. But in 1991, where he's Michael Douglas's character, we did this on the rewatchables too. He's,

trying to chase down this murder suspect and becomes enchanted by Sharon Stone, but she's probably the murderer. And he's like, you know what? Can't resist. I shouldn't do this, but the heart wants what the heart wants. We don't have the heart wants what the heart wants movies as much anymore as CR. I guess they tried to do it with Salt Burn and it was one of the worst movies I've seen in a while. I think that there's something to be said for the vulnerability people feel in the early part of a relationship.

Where you've got all that electricity running through your veins because you're with a new person and because you're feeling each other out in probably more ways than one. But there is that little bit of a mystery to them where you're like, who really is this person? Have I met their friends? Have I met their folks? What's their baggage? Yeah. And I think that...

Especially in a pre-internet dating world where a lot of it was either based on like pickup lines or as in this film, like these sort of lonely hearts letters or advertisements in the back of the Village Voice or an Alt Weekly or whatever.

Like you basically were like rolling the dice when you were dating, you know what I mean? And it wasn't like you could find and look at their Instagram and see where they had been and see who they were hanging out with. It was just like one day Ellen Barkin might show up at a restaurant and you were like, this is the best thing that's ever happened to me until you think she might be a serial killer. And, um, yeah. So why is she wearing Tito Jackson's jacket? I don't understand that part, but she's hot. Yeah.

Well, we know why she's wearing that jacket. But also the cool thing about this movie is how they set up Al Pacino's life in the sense that he's obviously of a certain age at this point. His dad is a widow and is extremely lonely. And he's like, I'm divorced.

I'm already about to be cooked at my job, so I'm about to lose the purpose in that. And he's kind of just moping around, right? He's feeling sorry for himself. And then he meets this woman and he's back. He's back alive. He's back and he's ready. He's ready to throw everything away for this. And it's just incredible to watch it play out throughout the course of the movie. Well, I told you guys, this is a big movie for me. My best friend from high school, Jeff Gallo,

I think we might have even seen this in the theater and we've been joking about it for 34 years. Just love you and Gallop watching this. The combo of Pacino and Ellen Barkin, just one of the weirdest couples we've ever had on screen in any movie where the movie was actually good and successful. But the sex scene brought us endless delight. We thought it was one of the funniest things ever.

Her, the way she kind of prowls around, like she's a tiger that got let out of the cage when she grabs him from behind, when she's like, what are you looking for, Frank? What are you looking for? And he's like, oh, oh, you're killing me. Oh. And we just thought, we thought, oh, you're killing me. We got, I'm telling you, we got three plus decades out of somebody like trying to get some sort of sexually charged reaction out of Pacino. Our history with Pacino is,

Not exactly like American gigolo in his movies, right? It's always like sex is always really Apollonia is the only time you felt like he really wanted a job. And we see how that worked out. Yeah. Right. And she got blown up in a car and this was Ellen Barkham was just like, all right, what's my challenge? I got Pacino with this crazy hair. He reeks of cigarettes, hasn't showered in five days.

I'm going to make it seem like this is the most attractive guy I've ever laid my hands on. And she does it. Like she's unbelievable. And they really do have chemistry, but Pacino's gross. I mean, he's just like, he's just disgusting.

I was kind of shocked watching it the last couple of times, I guess because I'm older or whatever. But when I saw it when I was a kid, I just mostly looked at it as an erotic thriller. It's like a portrait of addiction in a big time way. I mean, he's in the bag for most of this movie. And a lot of his behavior, I actually really respect the way they tell the story in the sense that there are several scenes that are played the way they're played

Because he's drunk, you know, so like when he goes to her and he's going to ask her to move in with him and they go to the nice restaurant and he's getting boxed like right as soon as they sit down, that completely changes the way the story is being told. I thought it was like a pretty honest depiction of alcoholism and obviously a guy having a midlife crisis.

Yeah, and it's funny to hear you say that Pacino doesn't have a history in the movies of being a sort of sexual being, if you will. Because in this movie, he is fucking horny, okay? The way he's looking at Ellen Barkin is how I look at...

at the double cheeseburger at McDonald's. Like, he is ready at three in the morning, mind you, okay? Like, he is so ready to devour this woman and let her do anything to his life.

Just his willingness to submit to what's happening is so crazy when you see him in these other contexts throughout the movie, right? Like, you know, I know we're going to talk about the fake Yankee meetup and, you know, how he's treating his... The dude is his partner or just his coworker who is now fucking his wife and, like,

The way he is throughout the rest of the movie is so divorced from every single scene of him and Ellen Barkin. It's like, man, to hear you guys say Al Pacino's never been sexual on screen, he is so...

so sexed up in this movie. Yeah. It's really though, it's like Frankie and Johnny is like the most purely romantic movie he's made. Right, Bill? Do you think that movie works, Chris? Because I did not think it worked. But I'm just saying like even in the terms of the way that he's like presented, like in all the gangster movies he's in, like Carlito's Way and Scarface and all those movies, it's like his relationship with the woman is either distressed or he's controlling her or like she's his exit from the criminal life

But it's never like... Al Pacino is... I mean, I guess author... I'm trying to think of some of the other ones that he's done, but like... Well, we did Injustice for All, remember? And he had that whole courtship scene in the kitchen eating Chinese food with Christine Lottie. Yes. And we were like, this is disgusting. Al Pacino eating Chinese food is not... Do you recognize something about his live wire kind of sensitivity? He is...

I can see why like it would bark in. If she was speed dating all these guys, it'd be like, you know what? This one's different. Like this guy's a little different. Maybe he smells like he's drank a bottle of doers before he came here, but he's still different. And I'm, I'm into it. Well, he's dated a lot of, uh,

actresses over the years. I mean, he had like a 20 year on and off relationship with Diane Keaton. And she talked about it. She did an autobiography. I was reading up. I read this Pacino New Yorker profile from 2014 about him. And there's a lot of Diane Keaton stuff in it. And she was just like,

I just could never get him. He was in my life this whole time and I could never totally figure him out. And he had those eyes and he'd look away and you're like, is he thinking about me? She had this whole thing where she was still under his spell.

And if you see like Pacino's like, it's like five, seven, he's got the yellow cigarette teeth. He's got the crazy hair. He is so short in this movie. Women could not resist him for forever. So it was always like in the movies, they always figured out how to play that and then pull it off. I mean, most of the time in movies, it's, we always catch him in relationships that have already stopped working, like in heat.

You know, like Scarface, we really only see the part after it stops working with him and Michelle Pfeiffer's character. But for the most part, he's not a stable relationship actor, Chris. No. It's not like he's not Paul Rudd. No. No. No.

It's not like him and Leslie Bane are having issues because they both turned 40. Yeah, he plays too much fantasy baseball. That's not what's happening here. So I sent you guys that clip of Siskel and Ebert on their TV show sort of giving their review of this movie. They absolutely love the freaking movie, if not the ending, which I'm sure we'll get into. But it's funny to hear them say like, yo, it's been a decade of crap because for me-

You know, I'm 36 years old. I grew up in New York City in the middle of the hip-hop boom. Scarface is so definitional to our growing up. The movie, the quotes, the immigrant story, the American dream chasing. It's so integral to us. So it's so interesting to hear them dismiss shit like that from the 80s, right? Like, just...

Out of hand, like that was crap. Whereas to me, that's like in my mind's eye when I'm thinking of Al Pacino, more so than Michael Coleon or, you know, the detective from Heat, I'm thinking about Scarface. So when I see him in this movie, I'm just like, this is such a different mold of person than Tony Montana in this movie. And the fact that he can pull off those two poles is incredible to me.

Well, I have, this is a really important point.

We have to hit the Pacino eighties. Cause that's a huge piece of this movie. Cause he has one of the great seventies, one of the great decades anyone's had. And we covered it in injustice for all and some of the other seventies ones, but in the eighties cruising, which Chris and I did for the rewatch was that's 1980, which is kind of a, a, a sort of sister movie to this. Yeah. And, and he's not great in it. Right. And I think even he admits like maybe not the best Chris and I love it, but

But it was, you know, that movie did not catch fire when it came out. Wayne Friedkin certainly admits that he was not great at it. Yeah. Wayne Friedkin took some shots. Then he does Author, Author, which didn't do well. Then he did Scarface, which had this belated, like super belated, became this iconic film. But it really wasn't the first five years. I think it was critically...

pretty much dismissed. People were super disappointed in De Palma and him and, oh my God, I thought this was going to be amazing and it's not. And then it took a while. But then the one that killed him was this movie called Revolution in 1985, which is a great Google deep dive for anybody out there. Just read 20 minutes about this movie, everything goes wrong. Like they don't know. Chris, have you seen it? I have not seen Revolution. It's one of those movies. They're trying to do two things at once.

They pull off neither. Pacino gets pneumonia for the first two months of the filming. So he's like a shell of himself and the movie bombs. And Pacino said, well, afterwards he said, um, you learned so much from it was such a disorienting experience. They put half a film out. I was appalled and shocked. I didn't know what to do. It was that single film that took the rug out from under me. I lost interest for a while. He didn't do a movie for four years.

And this is like Pacino, De Niro. These are the two biggest actors or the, what the Chris, the two best actors we had in the 80s. De Niro Hoffman was the sort of Troika. So that's the three. Meanwhile, Hoffman's like rattling off Tootsie and stuff. So yeah. And De Niro is still acting, but Pacino was he, this is like, I don't know. Yoko is just disappearing until 2027. So he, he moved, he moved to Palisades, New York with Diane Keaton.

He stopped making movies. He appeared in some plays. He did a play called National Anthem in New Haven. He did a Julius Caesar play where he played Mark Antony. And then he did this whole project called The Local Stigmatic, which was a one-act play. And he says now, or he said in 2014, this is probably the best period of my adult life. It was as close to Eagle-less as I've ever been and just doesn't work for four years. And finally Keaton was the one who's like, dude,

You're out of money. You're one of the best actors in the world. What are you doing? And started hitting him over the head with this sea of love script. Chris, can you think of any other situation ever like this where someone who is this high up the ladder in anything just said, I'm out? I guess it happens in music, right? The closest thing that we have to it, and it's way more elective, is Daniel Day-Lewis. So DDL is the one who routinely takes years and years between roles,

has a kind of soft retirement going on, which I guess is sticking. Although he's like, every once in a while, you'll see him in paparazzi photos, but he's the only like great actor where you're like, Oh, I guess you're just like the, but it sounds like Pacino, uh,

walked away from movies because he had such a bad experience on revolution that he needed to go and put himself back together it doesn't really feel like movie jail happens like this anymore it's like somebody might be a star and then they can just go and sort of slide into doing more supporting roles if they feel like they're not box office gold anymore but the idea of just being like exiled from the industry and who knows like what other things were happening in pacino's life at the time but

That does seem pretty rare. He's pretty famous for movies he didn't do. I think he turned down Star Wars. I think he turned down Fatal Attraction. If you go through the list of movies Al Pacino's turned down, they're like 10 blockbusters. What were you going to say, Wes?

No, I love the point in his career that this movie catches him in to understand that he's just coming back from a hiatus and to know that that send of a woman turn is kind of right around the corner. To catch him before that where he's not yelling at everybody in every single scene in this movie is pretty cool. So...

The part I remember, because I was in college when this movie came out, was it was a big deal that Pacino was coming back with a movie that we kind of wanted to see. Like the commercial, the trailer came out, it's like, oh, not only is Pacino back, this movie looks good. And you even see like Ebert in Ebert's review-

He said, for Pacino, C-Love is a reminder of the strong presence he established in street roles in the 1970s before he drifted away into unfocused stardom in too many softer roles. This time he seemed sharp, edgy, complicated, and authentic. And that was the feeling in 1989. It was like, I miss this guy. This guy is one of the most important actors of my life. Like, I'm just kind of glad he's back. By 1989, also, I feel like Scarface...

Had started to pop. Had started to come. He was on cable a lot. To Waz's point, it's like an iconic cultural touchstone. It was happening. And it's really interesting to hear Waz say that because I think that sometimes when we go through people's careers, we do it this sort of like one, then two, then three, then four. But when you...

have somebody who's younger, like was, is 10 years younger than us, 15 years younger than us. Like he's going to have, it's going to go one, then five, then seven, then two, because he's jumping around the person's filmography. And it's like, what's, what's become more significant. Like for my, I think the person that I've kind of grown up with in a lot of ways, he's, he's older than I am, but for his movies, at least has been like Daniel Day Lewis. So like, to me, like my left foot and in the name of the father, like,

Loom pretty big because I had never really seen performances like that, I felt like, when I saw them. Even though most people would be like, it's There Will Be Blood and Phantom Thread and Lincoln are kind of like these later period sort of huge performances in people's imagination. But he was like a brilliant young actor growing up for me. I mean, you got to figure, I was born in 87, so by the time I become a sentient being at like eight years old, that's 1995. Scarface is like...

firmly entrenched in everything I know pop culture was. Every single dorm room poster, every time. Yeah. Everybody knows the quotes. It's everywhere. It's basically the urtext of rap at the time. By the time I got to college, that had happened. So late 80s, Scarface. And I think part of it was it was just on cable a lot.

And it was a movie that the first time you saw it, there's so much going on. It's so fucking crazy. The last 20 minutes is so absolutely insane that you kind of leave the theater like, what did I just see? And he's so over the top in his performance. But then as you start jumping into different pieces of it,

Then it starts clicking. So I feel like that combined with Sea of Love seemed like it was good. And then by this time there were rumors Godfather 3 was actually happening and they were going to film it. And all of a sudden it was like Pacino's back. Yeah. Missed him. And at the same time, De Niro just had Midnight Run and De Niro's about to go on his amazing run. And this is when De Niro versus Pacino happened.

went to a whole other level as, all right, who you got? Who's your guy? Are you a De Niro guy or a Pacino guy? Which was things we actually argued about in bars. He does something really smart where he takes this time off and whether or not it was elective or like it was decided for him. And he...

kind of recreates the Al Pacino persona. Because when you think about Al Pacino's early movies and Dog Day and especially Serpico where he's playing a New York cop and he's like, he's the rookie of the year. He's the guy who sees like the, with moral clarity, like the corruption of the New York police department. He's like the, the young guy. And then to jump ahead to 89 and he's playing Frank and,

And he's like, I just got, I got my 20. I don't give a shit. All I want to do is get drunk. Like, and everybody's like, I'm going to retire and open a hotel. He's like, I'm nothing without this job. It's, it's a really wise kind of like update on the character. And I think it kind of, it informs a lot of his nineties decisions in a lot of ways. Well, as I wrote down, is this the smokiest, smelliest and drunkest Pacino has ever been in a movie?

Dude, so we're going to get into this. You can feel the cigarettes kind of coming off him during this movie. So everybody on this call at one time or another was a smoker. Yeah. Like a pretty active cigarette smoker. Yeah.

I've never smoked a cigarette in my bed ever in my life. I've never done that. And I wanted to ask you guys about this because that scene where he calls his ex-wife and he's so cooked. He is absolutely done, drunk and feeling sorry for himself. He's smoking his cigarette in his bed.

bed. That's a level of smoking that might be past shower smoking. It's closer to Don Draper than it is to anything else where it's like you just have the ashtray

Right on the nightstand so that you can put it on your chest while you smoke it. Yeah. I dated one girl who did it and I always thought it was like the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. Like that anybody would be like, you couldn't even just go in the other room to do this. It was like, you just have to roll over. There are layers of smoking from our era where it was like, first you would have a cigarette outside. Then maybe like the big thing for me was I started dating a girl who smoked inside and

Yeah. First meeting of college, three of us smoked in the suites, in the suite indoors. Then there's smoking in the bedroom, which is another level. And then smoking in bed, which is literally the like, don't smoke in bed. That's how you burn your house down is, is like when that's the final boss. Well, is bed worse than smoking as you're eating dinner? Cause that was what my mom always says her dad did. She said he would be eating dinner with a cigarette.

And I was like, wait, he was smoking as he was eating? And she was like, yeah, he smoked five packs a day. You don't really slow down when you're at five packs a day. I would never do that just because it would ruin the pleasure of lighting up as soon as you were done. Exactly. So smoking obviously suppresses your appetite a lot. A lot of times the cigarette after the meal is your reward for actually eating something. You know what I mean? It's like, all right, let me go smoke a butt real quick.

We have to take a break and then we're going to talk about the one, the only, Ellen Barkin.

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Ellen Barkin, one of the great Google searches of any actress with some of the interviews she's given over the years. She...

You know how that Super 70 Sports Twitter account, every once in a while he does the Kelly Leak tweet where he's like, batted 900, 50 home runs, zero fucks given, Kelly Leak. Ellen Barkin, I think, is the all-time zero fucks given actress. She doesn't care. She'll talk shit about movies she made. She'll talk shit about people she worked with. It's incredibly entertaining to read up on all the stuff she's done. But one of her quotes was,

If you're a man like Nick Dalti, Al Pacino, and Robert De Niro, that means deeply talented and deeply committed. If you're a woman, it means you're difficult. And Debra Winger has quotes like this too. It's the quote unquote difficult actress. They always say this. And it's a great point. Why do they get the bad rap? But we have like all these crazy actors are like, oh yeah, he's a little out there. Why is that CR? And meanwhile, like Ellen Barkin and Debra Winger, a lot of like what you're referring to is like,

They show up on set and like their male director is like, guess what? I forgot to mention it's a nude scene today, you know, or let me pull off your Merkin. Yeah, right. With Ellen, Ellen Barkin's case. It's, uh, it's definitely unfair. It's like we lionize like the difficult men. And then, uh, if it's like a, if it's an actress who's like, Hey, I have a couple of issues with the way the story is being told. It's like, ah, this is a pain in the ass, you know?

Waz, what's your Ellen Barkham relationship? My relationship honestly starts in Ocean's 13. I don't have a relationship with her. Same.

Thank you, Craig. Horlbeck from the peanut gallery. And by the way, when I interacted with her in Ocean's 13, I was quite intrigued. I was like, oh, I like this older white sage. I'm into this. I like this a lot. And so that...

That and, you know, in more recent years, her Twitter account, she's a pretty active member of the resistance, if you catch my drift, on Twitter. And so that's kind of been... I never felt the need to be like, oh, I need to do a deep dive on this woman's previous work because she never seemed like somebody...

who was that relevant in the culture, right? It just didn't feel that way anyway. But of course, in Oceans, she's incredibly alluring and incredible, like in the way that, you know, a sort of knowing older, you know, sexual woman might be. And so for me, that was my introduction to her. What was, is this your introduction to her, Bill? No, no, no. Let's do diner, dog. Come on. It starts diner. Yeah.

It starts Diner and then Eddie and the Cruisers the next year, which you cannot stream because I actually wanted to do this as a one for us with CR, Eddie and the Cruisers rewatchables.

Not available. Like literally nowhere. It's not even on YouTube. It's just all copies are gone. But those are my first two things with her. She was in Harry and Son. The big one for her was The Big Easy. The Big Easy is... That was a star-making performance. Her and Dennis Quaid. They're in New Orleans. It's a great... It's an all-time New Orleans movie. And it really seems like they're fucking in the love scenes. Like they're just going...

it and it was like whoa this is like somebody I haven't seen before right you remember that Chris I certainly remember the Big Easy I certainly remember their electric chemistry the the introductory shot of Ellen Barkin in this movie where you know he's doing the speed dating run and then she's the third date or she sits down and they cut to her face which is one of the most distinctive beautiful faces I think in like movie history yeah it's just like I I

It's real. Like I would throw my life away for this, like right now. And it's so, can you imagine she, it's like a lightning bolt hits. She blows Pacino completely off the screen. It's like, nobody's watching Al Pacino in that scene. She is so amazing. I, she's, she's just a,

What an amazing... I keep thinking about her face. Her face is just one of those... What an incredibly beautiful person that also completely understands the instrument that she's playing and can manipulate people. But was also attainably attractive. She wasn't like Kelly Preston attractive.

She was like, oh, this is somebody like, I feel like if I was talking to her at a bar at 11 o'clock at night, I might have a chance. This is always my favorite part. It's like, if you were smoking cigs at 3 a.m. Yeah. It's like, I'm smoking out the window of somebody's apartment and she comes over and asks for a land. And Ellen Barkin comes over to Bill Simmons. I know, it's just so hard to move him. I might have a chance. And Bill's like, Noah.

don't know if i ever told you about this but i have kind of a basketball pyramid thing going on let me just say this bill well that's what i mean i know exactly what you mean however the woman who shows up to this the woman who shows up to this date is out of our league okay the yes the the red jacket

Because the movie's trying to explain to us, like, want us to think that this is the devil, y'all. This is the Garden of Eden. This is the forbidden fruit. This is the devil. She got the red jacket, the red lipstick, and most importantly, she's got this, like, devilish half smirk where she's just like, you have no idea what's about to happen to your life, motherfucker. And it's perfect. Yeah.

I guess the eye contact thing was another great thing for her. She just locks in on her co-star. Yeah. She pulls more out of Pacino in this movie than I think any other actress has pulled out. You really feel like he wants to jump her bones. Immediately. It's weird because after this, and I think this movie made her a legitimate star.

And then it was like, you look at everything after and it's just, it's not great. And I don't know how much the difficult, like her big movie two years later was called switch or as a man trapped in a woman's body. Is that a Blake Edwards movie? Yeah. Yeah. And then she was in this boy's life with Leo and De Niro and she's great in that. And that's a really good movie, but it wasn't like a monster hit. And then it just, you know, you just kind of, especially if you're in your early forties as an actress, you just kind of get run over by the one who's five years older.

And that was it. And all of a sudden she wasn't a leading actress anymore. But I always thought I, it's amazing to me. She never found her stride in like a mid nineties HBO show.

Or maybe early showtime, like some sort of drama, something like that. I think she found some TNT show later, but I always liked her. To me, she's like a one-on-one. I don't even know who you would compare her to. She's the matriarch on Animal Kingdom. I feel like you're an Animal Kingdom guy, CR. Am I making that up? I like the early seasons. Of course she is. I didn't stick with it, but I enjoyed the early stuff. Yeah, the early stuff.

I remember when I told Chris that I played tennis with Sean Haddisey. He was so impressed. The Animal Kingdom guy. The cast in this movie is another reason that it's so much fun just to see it pop up where you got Richard Jenkins, you got John Goodman, either pre-Roseanne or right as Roseanne started. Nobody really knew who he was at that point. Michael Rooker coming off Henry Portrait of the Sailor Killer, which I was one of only five people who saw. Your guy, Paul Calderon.

Oh my God. And then the one and only John Spencer. It's just a cast of, back then they were those guys. And one scene for Sam Jackson. A little Sam Jackson during the Sam Jackson when he was in 17 movies a year with like five lines. Coming to America, all that. Yeah, just kept popping him. Directed by Harold Becker. CR mentioned that it was written by Richard Price. $19 million budget.

Made $110.9 million. Could we have squeezed this into, wait, how much money did that movie make, Month? Or no, Chris? $110.9. It's not jaw-dropping, but it's a lot. I heard you saying that you might want to include a couple more movies in this theme. I think it would work, especially if you think about how when you watch this movie, it's way more of a fucked-up romance movie than it is a cop movie. No question. The cop movie is basically kicked to the last 20 minutes. Yeah.

So our guy, Roger Ebert, three stars. He said, what impressed me most in the film was the personal chemistry between Pacino and Barkin. There can be little doubt at this point that Barkin is one of the most intense and passionately convincing actresses now at work in American movies.

Her performance in the Big Easy was Oscar caliber. And again, this time she seems to cross some kind of acting threshold. And then he writes, when she roughly embraces Pacino and then stalks around the room like a tigress in heat before returning to her quarry, there's an energy that almost derails the movie. Raj, have a glass of water. Hose yourself down. Jeez, Raj. Dude.

He needed a cigarette after this movie. Fire hydrant, for God's sake. My God, Raj. Big barking guy. It's a hot day in Chicago. All right. Most rewatchable scene, obviously, have to start with tricking the

Yankee fan criminals into a Yankee hang. Have you ever... Have you done this to Jacko? Be honest. I wish somebody would. I wish somebody would get all these people together and then arrest all of them. Waz, no scene more in your wheelhouse than this. It's just so good, especially just because the Yankee component of it in New York, I don't think people understand that like...

For both, I happen to be a Mets fan. Obviously, there's a lot of devotion for the Mets. But the Yankee devotion, arrogance, it's hard to explain, man. So the idea that they were offering a Yankee meet and greet to these convicts, 1,000% they're going to show up. This isn't even a question. They're showing up to this thing. So I buy the premise off the rip.

Irrational confidence. Okay. Fast forward to the next rewatchable scene. Honestly, the movie takes a little bit to get going. It does. And then as soon as Frank has a couple, as we start, we come up with the dating plan scheme. Want to know how we catch up? We put in our own ad. Say what? New York Weekly Magazine. We put our own ad in. A hundred guys place ads in their inbox.

They get 30 to 50 responses each. That's for 5,000 women. What are we gonna do? Go out with 5,000 women? Hell no. We know the broad is into rhyming ads, right? So we put in a rhyming ad. June, June, spoon, sand, dune. We set up dates with 30, 40, 50 of the ladies who answer. We take them out. Some restaurant, some bar. Get their prints on a wine glass. Bingo! She's dropped.

I love it. It's horseshit, but I love it. You know how many guys put ads in that magazine last month? Our guy Frank, played by Pacino, goes on a couple dates, including the lady with the big wig. Yeah. He's like, we'll call you. And she reads through it and she's like, no, you won't. Gives him the sad eyes. I love that scene. The lady who comes in and says, you've got cop eyes. I don't know. I get this very weird feeling you're not who you say you are. There's something not right about this.

He gets pegged for cop eyes a couple of times. You're a printer, I've got a dick. Who do you know has cop eyes, Chris? Anybody? Does Phenasy have cop eyes? I think he does.

That's messed up. And then Barker comes in with a red jacket. You're just not my type. I believe in animal attraction. I believe in love at first sight. I believe in this. You like the park and I like the beach. You like movies. I like plays. You're a printer. I manage a shoe store. And I don't believe in wasting time on this kind of stuff. You know what you know and you go with it. You go with what? You're just not my type.

I mean, I just sat down. I believe in animal attraction. I believe in love at first sight. I believe in this and I don't feel it with you. And she snaps in his face. You don't got it. It's such a Pacino move too. It's like, it's like doing a crossover on Kyrie. It's just like, you're doing, you're going right back. She goes right at him. You're right. Uh, next one, Frank running into, uh, Ellen Barkin again. Uh,

And he slowly is trying to decide which pair to buy. Right. Well, it's so funny. It's like, when is Frank ever had a piece of fruit? Right. But to be his first strawberry, but then it's on the attractions on, they're going to go on a date. He calls Goodman and Goodman had does the Frankie. She's a fucking suspect. Just walk away. Great bar scene. I've done some desperate foolish things at three in the morning.

You know, it gets late sometimes. I feel like a big cat in a small cage. Oh, yeah? You know, I have done some desperate, foolish things come three o'clock in the morning. You mean like being here with me? I just put Chino in a bar late at night. Good things are going to happen, Wes.

Whether he's talking to a girl, whether he's trying to solve a crime. Like I just, you feel like you're in safe hands. The bar, the lighting's going a little down. It's getting a little dimmer. There's some cheesy song on. The way he orders his doers. I'm just like, yeah, this is a guy who has been here five days a week the last five years. There's laying your bills on the bar and being like, this is how much I'm drinking. And then there's the guy who comes in and throws his bills on the bar and is like, that's how much I'm drinking. Yeah.

And that's a different level. I've always wanted to, it's never happened to me, even in my biggest drinking days of the going to the bar, ordering a shot, throwing it down, putting it down. And then the guy just immediately pours another one. There's some sort of vibe you have to be giving that it's like, I'm definitely a two for one special right now. It also helps if it's the Vietnam war era, but yes. Yeah, you're right. Good point. Next rewatchable scene, the sex scene.

maybe the funniest sex scene we've ever had. She's got a startup pistol in her purse. He does the, he throws her in the closet because he doesn't trust her. He does the, feel my heart, feel my heart. It's like a drum. Beating like a drum, baby. Blames the city. The city's what it does to people. And then she just starts mauling him. And he's just like, oh, oh, Jesus. Oh, Jesus.

And that's like the inversion, the sexual inversion that happens where she's like got him up against the wall. Right. Patting him down like a cop. Yes. And then she mounts it. Yes.

Yes. That's what it was. Her basically establishing her dominance over him because she comes out the bathroom ready to have a nice intimate moment. She's got her robe on. Yeah. Right. She's being, you know, a lady or whatever. And he rough houses her because he's so scared that he's fucking a serial killer.

And so she's like, all right, I got something for that ass. I'm going to make you feel how I felt just moments ago. Only she was scared. Yeah. Al Pacino was loving it. He was absolutely obsessed with it. Oh, you're killing me. Then she says in the bedroom the next, in the bed the next morning.

When she's like ready for around 16 and he's like, I'm done. I'm tapped out, man. You've murdered me. I need to be airlifted. To the standing position. And she says, I always used to think I live for love. I mean, what else is there? Food.

This was, we used to joke a long time ago that this would have been the funniest high school yearbook quote you could have come up with. Just quoting Alan Barkin, just putting that in your high school yearbook for the rest of eternity. This five minutes is the fucking hilarious. It just kills me. The shoe store scene I have down. With the two goombas. The two goombas come in. I love this scene so much. It's also like such a throwback to a time when like,

You could have a job managing a shoe store that sold like 12 pairs of shoes. Right. And like, that's just like on Madison Avenue and it's like work and, and like now. And y'all can pay y'all rent with that. Yeah. And pay employees. Yeah. That's when Pacino snaps and does, it goes into scent of a woman mode. A brief preview of what's to come four years ago. He's like, I'm everybody's daddy. Pretty bad. That's just too much for you, isn't it?

I mean, you let scum like that in here, but my being a cop, I mean, that's just too much, isn't it? Let me tell you something about this. All these people in here with their rocks and their furs, they get robbed, they get raped. I'm all of a sudden their daddy. Come the wet-ass hour, I'm everybody's daddy!

He gets made. Yeah. Dude, the Goomba who hawks a loogie in the freaking shoe store? Like, bro, what? Big loogie, too. Not like a small loogie. Bro. More rewatchable. Pacino's apology in the kitchen when he becomes soft-spoken.

I fucked up Al Pacino. I can't even sleep in my own bed unless you're in it. And then he sees the ads on the fridge. Yeah. Because, you know, who doesn't keep their romantic ads on the fridge? Who doesn't bring back Singles' ads and put them next to their kid's artwork? Yeah, who doesn't just put up eight or nine of those? I had that in Nick Pickett's medicine. We'll talk about it now. Just keep all of them up. Who's going to notice or think that's weird at all? And then he does the Pacino face.

Then we have Helen playing him sea of love that that's like, Oh wait, she is the killer. This is one of those. The first time you see it, isn't she? So why is at this point, you think she's the killer? I pretty much think she's the killer the whole way. There are moments that I have my doubts. Like I'm like, Oh shit, the mom is legitimate.

Oh shit. Look how cute that baby is. Oh shit. She really has a job and is like pretty good at it. And like, seems like a well-adjusted human being. There are moments of doubt, but the movie set me up. I'm like, there's no way a woman this good at sex is not a killer. Like the movie sets me up to think that she's a killer the whole time for me personally watching it. I'm like, yeah, she's definitely the one.

And also, you know, movie, like I come into it with my own biases, right? Like I've already seen Basic Instinct. I've already seen, you know, all these other movies where... Fatal Attraction. Fatal Attraction, where the femme fatale is literally, you know, a killer. And so I'm carrying those biases in...

throughout this movie where this movie's trying to tell us like yo guys like Al Pacino's just a sicko the fact that he's treating his job this way for a piece of pussy is like fucking nuts but the movie is trying very desperately when you watch it over to be like she's a normal nice lady who's just really good at sex

Well, then we have two more scenes. The big fight scene with Michael Rooker. I am such a huge fan of the throwing the bad guy out the window and having them fall to their death. When is it not that awesome? It's always good. Never fails. Always good. And then I really love the final scene. And it was interesting doing the research of this movie because anytime I watch this on cable, it always seemed accidental that Pacino got

bumped by somebody walking as he's in the middle of this dramatic moment. And he just gets sideswiped like Michael Parsons and then hops back in. And they actually taught there's a YouTube, there's like a director commentary thing that's on YouTube. And they talk about like,

The director thought it was amazing that Pacino gets knocked backwards, regroups, jumps back in as character and catches up and she's laughing and they just kind of keep the scene going. They decided to keep it. If you watch it again too, there's a couple of points where you can see people notice it's Al Pacino. Right. I think they pretty much just like ripped and run that scene. Yeah. So yeah, I love that.

What do you got for most rewatchable scene, Wes? I've got a couple that I think you left off that I thought were pretty important. Obviously, the aforementioned on the bed with the cigarette, pissy drunk, calls his ex-wife, who now has a live-in partner. He says... Who is his partner? Who was his partner? Did I wake you? I think I got appendicitis. Yes.

I think I got appendicitis is just...

A great, great line. The scene where they're in the police station walking down and he's bitching about his ex-wife with an earshot of this same dude. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that culminates into this huge fight, which I absolutely loved. Oh, that's at the detective's party. That's like the party for like the guys. Yeah, I should have put that in. You're right, Wes. I like a good detective's party is always good with some drunken. Also, when they brawl at a detective party, it's like somebody just like tripped quickly.

Everybody's just completely non-pussed that people are throwing punches. What else do I got? The wedding scene, obviously the whole wedding scene, John Candy is just getting fucking bombed. Oh, the Long Island? John Goodman, excuse me. Yeah. The wedding scene is incredible. So what do you have for me to watch about? What's your number one? Oh, so this is, and I don't think this is in this, but again, this is my personal favorite scene is when he calls her up

And he tells her not to wear the panties when they meet up in the middle of the night. And she's wearing the long coat in the convenience store. And she brushes up against him. And then sometimes she gets close and he feels to see if the panty's there. But it's gone. And, like, that scene just explains to you, like, this man...

he's lost his fucking mind for this woman. And this is why, like he spontaneously called her. She obliges. She looks incredible. That for me, that's the scene that I go back to. Cause it just reminds you like why this guy is doing what he's doing. So wise likes when Pacino gets freaky. What do you got, Chris? I'd like to get, I'd like to get creative here, but it's the first sex scene. It's their first night going home from the convenience store and

After she finds him and he's like, yeah, my mom wrote that poem. And then they have, he throws her in the closet. Yeah. He jumps on top of her. Then she jumps on top of him. The whole thing. I have that as well. Good. What's aged the best? I like seeing these cheesy late 80s New Yorker Yankee fans with like that era where everybody kind of looked vaguely like Don Mattingly's cousin or Mike Francesa.

Or an extra in a Seinfeld episode. I just, I really enjoyed that. The guy who comes up to him at the end, who's like, I had to bring my kid to meet Dave Winfield. Right. Yeah. A Dave Winfield reference. That's another What's Aged to Best. Sam Jackson's 1980s cameo run we mentioned. I was, I wrote down for What's Aged to Best, drunk cops calling their ex-wife.

Never fails in a movie. Never fails. Cops being drunkards, cops being womanizers. The wire taught us that's universally true. Every department, every time era that's ever existed. I have Richard Jenkins being the same age for about 35 years. He's in this movie in 1989. And then 20 years later, it looks exactly the same. I don't know what happened to Richard. I don't know why he doesn't age. I don't understand that. And then,

I had for what's aged the best, John Spencer. He plays Lieutenant John Longo Jr. Yeah, who has to listen to Pacino talking about strange trim. Right. And he's like, yeah, good point. Frank, good detecting. The quotes in this, it's too good. Oh, John Longo Jr., he says that he's trying to hook up Pacino with his cousin or somebody. And he's like, she's got great tits, divorced, no kids, no cats. Okay.

And Pacino walks away and Goodman goes, lose sister-in-law. She sounds great. Sounds great. What else do you have for what's aged the best, Chris? I have Al Pacino doing karate at the detective party, like where he's just like, they're trying to give a speech and Al Pacino's got like a fight club going to the side of this VFW hall. Right. I mentioned the Dave Winfield thing and one of my favorite little bits, it's not a rewatchable scene, but it's definitely aged the best.

is Al Pacino, is Frank showing off his new loafers to all his coworkers? He's like, check this out. My, my new lady got these for me. That's the thing. Whenever you see a dude wearing something or something in his appearance being way off from what you knew of him before, you know, there's a woman involved, right? Like that's, that's like so beautiful. Um,

Anyone say it's the best for me, Waz, or should we keep going? I got a couple. The first being the record collecting. When she's like, yo, these things would be worth a fortune one day to my kid. Like, the record collecting business market culture is insane. Like, there are records that are worth like $2,000, $3,000. Like, it's crazy. Yeah.

you know, prescient they were about that truth. Even in 1989, records were like a dated sort of technology. And for them to mention that in a movie, and that'd be a part of the plot of the movie, these 045s. Like, I thought that was dope. And my second age the best, the actual killer, blaming it on the Negroes. Turns out that still works, guys. That's right. I had that in which age the worst. I had that in which age the worst as well. Yeah. That age the best!

advice it works you can still do that folks if you want to get away with something just blame it on the darkies my only other uh what's the best bill is uh richard price new york dialogue oh yeah i like it yep kid cuddy pursued happiness award for best needle job i don't know what that sax song is in the grocery store when he tells her to meet it sounds like a sade song but if the movie is named sea of love it's got to be sea of love

So for me, it was another one bites the dust at the wedding party. Oh, that's good. Yeah, that's better. Because to me, it's like a play on the serial killer theme. You feel me? Like more people to die in. Big Kahuna Burger Award for best use of food and drink. I like the fingerprinting the wine glasses was fun. Watching the wine glasses all of a sudden became super important. Den of Thieves, Benny Hanna Award, scene stealing location. It's just that New York City bars and just kind of the late 80s.

Just feels very authentic. They did a good job with the locations. Goes in there. He looks up what fucking Yankees or Mets game are we watching tonight? Yeah. The score. Yeah.

So for me, it was actually the restaurant with the speed dating. Oh yeah. It's so loud. It's smoky. It's like super big. There's like a lot of energy in that place. Like that was really cool. I was like, I want to go to that fucking restaurant. I love the shot of when Pacino gets out of the surveillance van and walks across. Like, I think it's Columbus to get it. Cause you can see Lincoln center in the background. Yeah. It's just like a great, like New York, like my fucking juices are flowing time, time to go date three women.

That restaurant is called O'Neill's. I don't know if it still exists, but that's what it was called when they filmed. Chris, what do you got for great shot Gordo for the most cinematic shot? I actually have the last scene, the last shot of them walking down the street and trying to reconcile just because it feels so alive.

You like the camera panning back with the group of the R2 characters sinking into a group of people. Yeah, I love it. It's one of your signature shots in your movies. That's right. My favorite shot is every single time the dude's a dry hump in the mattress before the serial killer. Pants to his ass first.

Can you ever explain why Rooker makes them do that? Tough way to go. We have Rooker coming up because I'm giving him the Vincent Chase Award for are we sure this character was actually good at his job? So this killer, he just follows this girl he used to love on her dates and immediately kills who she's with. You're getting caught, dude. Some

Somebody is putting together this non-elaborate chessboard of moves of every time this woman goes on a date with this guy, he ends up brutally murdered, shot in the back of the head. It probably would have gotten caught faster if he wasn't being investigated by a guy who was blackout drunk every single night. Right, true.

Dude, so that why to me it's like Frank, is he really a good detective? Well, he's the other one who could have won the Vincent Chase Award. Are we sure Frank was even a decent detective? Dude, when he smudges the fingerprints on purpose, it's like you don't even bother to check. Just check. This is my Stephen A. Smith. We're not dealing with Sherlock Holmes right here. Right. This ties in the Butch's Girlfriend Award for the weak link in the film.

This is the problem with this movie is the Michael Rooker character. We meet him at the 15 minute mark briefly. He's telling a joke. He's just sitting at a table. You don't think anything of him. Then you meet him again at like the 45 minute mark when he blames the black person at the grocery store for the murders, basically. So it's like, okay, sort of memorable, but

You know, there's a lot going on in this movie. It's not really registering. You know he's a famous actor, so that's always a red flag in a movie like this. But then the reveal that he's the killer, I'm not sure the movie earns it. Ebert had a problem with this too, Chris. There's also... It might have been even more convoluted, but I thought about it this time watching it, especially because John Goodman is John Goodman now. But there is a John Goodman twist that was there where it's like...

Goodman's cop is the one killing these guys. Oh, cause he has the whole thing in the middle of the movie where all of a sudden he starts getting into the nightlife and going out and, and I never did this before, Frankie. Yeah. And like, it's like, you know, he really is insistent that they work together. So you could be like, maybe he's trying to derail the investigation in some way.

I kind of was like the second time around, I was like, if you're going to do a remake, that would be an interesting twist to put on it. I think it needed another Michael Rooker scene where he goes to the grocery store with them and he's like, I swear to God, it was this guy. And like just something to make a more distinct before he shows up at the end. So upon watching it the second time or third time for me, honestly, it's,

It felt like the part about blaming it on the black kid was just to have just a little bit of, it's possible that it's somebody else for, for detective Frank, just so he could just have a little bit of like, it might be the black kid. There's no evidence for it. We never see, we never see that plot again. They go to the grocery store and then it just kind of goes to the wayside. So that's probably the flaw of the movie. Um, Ebert said the ending cheats by bringing a character in from left field at the last moment.

Um, the audience is not fairly treated. I walked out feeling the plot played fast and loose with the rules of whodunits. Uh, we'll take one more break. Then we're gonna do what's aged the worst. Kickstart the school year with Apple gift card. You can send it via email or send a physical card to your loved ones. Inspire their curiosity with a world of apps. Boost their productivity with Apple products like iPhone and iPad.

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All right. What's aged your worst? Obviously, newspaper dating ads. When was the last time somebody put a newspaper dating ad? Now this would be... What is this movie now, Waz? Is this just Tinder? To me, it's just Tinder. That's why to me it doesn't age badly. It's an alternative way of meeting people that isn't being social, right? Like going out to a bar, going to a friend's get together. It's this alternative way. And before we had the technology for Tinder, you took out ads in the Village Voice. I've

I thought that actually aged perfectly because of how it played out. Like when they're in the detective's office and they're calling the girls to set up the dates, which essentially is after you match, you sort of are in that phase of setting up a time to meet up. And, you know, John Candy's, John Goodman is like,

My mother's name was Amber or whatever. That is so true to life to me as somebody who was recently single and doing this completely debasing act of trying to meet people on the internet to date. It rang so true to me that they were doing the little small talk. What's your favorite color? What did your dad do for a living? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that they could set up the actual meetup. To me, all of that felt...

Like it aged gracefully. It's just a different mode of technology to get those same exact things done. Those awkward convos on the phone really reminded me of the stupid text that you do when you first match with somebody on a dating app.

Chris, what do you got for what stage to worst? I have men sleeping in deformed white t-shirts. It's not that I need guys to wear silk pajamas, but there's something truly grotesque about seeing... He's so disgusting. Goodman and Pacino sleeping in these distended fucking V-necks and just be like, ah, Jesus Christ. I also have...

I have on... It's kind of actually perfect as a detail, but it's like great divorced man interior design energy. Al Pacino's shower curtain is just two cartoon alligators. Yeah. It's the worst shit. It makes no sense why that would be a shower curtain. But it's also just like the second Ellen Barkin would have saw that, she would have just been like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Speaking of Pacino, I had...

Her saying the words to her young, well, how old was that kid? Four years old. Yeah. This is your new stepfather, Lieutenant Frank Keller. That is the worst. Pacino's yellow HD teeth are pretty rough. Maybe it's a couple of crest wedge strips for him. And then in the morning, she goes right in for some open mouth kissing with Pacino after their night together.

I would have been worried about it the previous night. There's not a tube of crest in sight. Honestly. Like, whoa, you really like that guy if you're doing that. I also had...

They go to the grocery store and Pacino says, do one of your kids got cornrows? Afro hair? That's tough. Maybe they could have a consultant. Afro hair was tough. Again, there's too many great quotes. There's just too many great quotes, but he called it Stevie Wonder hair. You're right. He called it Stevie Wonder hair. As far as what stage the worst to, because it would have been different now, is...

You would have just been able to quickly Google image Phil Rizzuto and realize something was going wrong. Yeah, true. The Yankee thing. I had, I almost did this for my hottest take. I just don't think Sia Love's a very good song.

Whoa. Yeah. Not a huge fan. Oh, I think it's beautiful. Nah, not, not, never been a giant fan. I think there's some other sixties or fifties songs that maybe could have been more interesting. I just don't like hearing it five times, but it's fine. I'm not like, Oh my God, I hate this song, but I don't know. I don't love it. What do you, where do you stand? Was

I can't lie to you guys. This is not something that played in my house growing up. First time I heard this song was the first time I watched this movie. I'm like, okay, this is cool. Regular, you know, I could see 1950s, you know, drive-in movie. That's what the song evokes for me, but I'm not that impressed by it. I have one more, What Staged the Worst, but Waz, do you have any before I do it? The slut shaming towards the end of the movie where he's like, ah.

how many of those dates did you go on? It's just like, what are we doing, Al Pacino? Like, look at your life. Look at you. You're a drunk. You hit the lottery. You're a divorcee and you're, because I went on some dates. Like, it's just, but then again, again, like, is it aging horribly when men are still doing this type of nonsense in 2023? But I would imagine in 1989, people watching that movie being like, yeah, why is she dating all those dudes? Yeah, yeah. You tell her, Al.

Um, so the, the number one, what's aged the worst for me and it's on YouTube. I sent you the deleted scenes. There's two deleted scenes. There's a scene when he's kind of staking out the building and he sees somebody who seems like a suspect, but it turns out the guy's a bodyguard for a kid at elementary school, but the guns are drawn and it becomes this whole event. And then he goes the next thing, the police station and his ex-wife is there.

And she's coming in and check on him, shared about the thing. And she's played by Lorraine Bracco, AKA Mrs. Henry Hill from Goodfellas, Dr. Janice Melfi. And they have a really good three minute scene. And it's also Pacino's real life girlfriend, right?

Yeah. At some point. Oh, he's dating her at the time. Yeah. I think he was. And I have no idea why they cut it out. I actually thought it was really good to beat his ex-wife. She tells the end of the scene, she tells him I'm pregnant and he hugs her. And I don't know. I thought it like it added, added some depth to the movie and I don't get it. I would have kept it.

That might be some bias, some good fella soprano's bias, Bill, because you love that actress so much. And you have so many great memories tied to her presence on screen that you're just like, that scene works perfectly. We need more from her. Yeah, that might be. I just liked putting a face with the ex-wife, but it's fine. Was there a better title for the movie? Probably not. I have Lonely Hearts.

You know, because they usually call the singles ads something like that. Sea of Love is a boring title, I got to say. I think they could have done a lot better. You know, because your video's not turned on, Craig, it just sounds like Statler and Waldorf. I like it, though. It's keeping me on my toes. It's like when Bill texts me, he's like, we're doing Sea of Love. I'm like, what is this? But then I just...

That's fair, though. But it doesn't reflect the movie to me. It's such an indictment on the rewatchables that that's Craig's react. That's not the only time Craig was like, ah, what is this? Waz, do you have a hottest take? I really don't. Like, so many things on this movie just absolutely work for me. Every single part of it just works for me. So there was nothing that I'm like, ah, well, actually this, well, I don't have a hot take. I'll carry with this one. I just love it.

My Stephen A. Smith-Ottis take. It's an absolute outrage looking back that Ellen Barkin did not have like an eight episode run on The Sopranos playing somebody. I just don't know how she wasn't on the show. Could she have been a Tony mistress?

Could she have been a rival mob boss that Tony couldn't believe there was like a female mob boss? Could it have been, she's a madam, like a Heidi Fleiss character. Could it have been Carmela's sister? Oh yeah. Who shows up for holidays and then starts coming on to Tony one night. Super judgmental, but really into him. And it's like a five episode arc. Could she have played Carmelo instead of Edie Falco? What do you think? I know that's sacrilegious. Let's talk it out. If she's Carmela's, is,

Where does the show go if she's Carmela Soprano? I think she probably has too much sexual energy for the wife. It's hard to imagine Ellen Barkin doing the more pedestrian dance

Like making chicken parm. But just like, even like the beautiful scene where Carmella's in Paris or whatever. You know what I mean? Like Ellen Barkin almost seems as beautiful as Paris. So it's hard to imagine her doing that. I don't know. Or trying to seduce Father Phil and not pulling it off. Like Ellen Barkin's fucking getting Father Phil. This is no way. So to me, the reason why it's hard for me to see her replacing Carmella, it's when she tears into Tony.

Like, when Ellen Barkin tears into Al Pacino for, like, the myriad of bullshit that he does in this movie, she's kind of taking it light on him. Whereas Edie Falco in those scenes where she is just lighting into Tony Soprano, like, it's nothing like that. She makes that dude look small in some of those scenes. I don't know if Ellen Barkin has that rage that Edie Falco does. What if she was the Julianna Margulis character?

The car salesman person that Tony had the affair with and then had to take her for a little ride with one of his cronies. Oh, yeah. The side piece that committed suicide. I like that. I like that as an idea, too. Yeah. All right. Casting what ifs.

Dustin Hoffman was supposed to be in this movie. Yeah, and something weird happened. The only thing that would have been more perverted is if Dustin Hoffman had played the play. Watching Dustin Hoffman get domed by Ellen Barkin. Right out of Rain Man, too. It would have been like the next movie after Rain Man. Too weird. I don't think I could handle that.

If it was Raymond, Raymond Babbitt meeting her, maybe, I don't know. I could talk to someone. Um, have to leave the gate, have to watch Wapner. The, uh, we mentioned Lorraine Bracco. That's the only other cast that would have the, um, Ruffalo Hannah Rubinick Partridge overacting award. They knew and they let it happen. Don't you call me lady. I come in here. I give these things to you. Give it all you got. Give it all you got.

I treated you like a son. You fucking stabbed me in the heart. Fuck you. Fuck you. It's Al. It's always Pacino. Listen, can I make a small case for the discount mafia shoe store guys? Oh, sure. And you can make a case for Rooker, but it's definitely Al. It's not the mafia guys who are like, all right, so how do I play a mafia guy? Can you guys watch this Andrew Dice Clay comedy special and then basically just do Dice Clay?

Can that be the move? Yeah, Hawking the loogie. I know he thought he was doing something, especially like being in a scene with Al Pacino. It's like he probably worked himself up into like a tizzy. And yeah, that was unconvincing. Best that guy award. So Pacino's dad is one of those. William Hickey. Yeah. Yeah, he's a that guy. That's also a really funny scene is when they're just getting fucking hammered in front of his dad.

Oh, yeah. And he unlocks the poem for them. Yeah. Well, one of the other guys in that scene wins this award. His name is Larry Joshua. He sure is. You know him better as obnoxious Yankee fan at the bar during the for love of the game, perfect game. The guy who's sitting next to Kelly Preston and talking out of his ass at the airport bar. That's how I know him. Do you know him from somewhere else, CR? No.

I mean, he's such a huge... He's like one of those guys. He's like one of those New Yorker 80s, 90s guys. Waz isn't a for love of the game guy. He just made a confused face. No, never seen for love of the game. Sorry, folks. Dion Waiters Award. Who do you have? Michael Rooker? John Spencer? Has Lieutenant John Longo Jr.?

Goodman's in it too much. It's probably John Spencer, but I like the old chick at the restaurant on the speed date with Pacino. Oh, she was really good. Yeah, yeah. That's a good one. She's so good at playing a certain level of desperation and loneliness and wanting. And when she realizes, she knew he was full of shit. When she sees the hot ass younger chick pull up to the date and the eye contact they've made and she is just devastated and Pacino was just like, fuck. Right.

That was messed up. She's another candidate for me. Recasting couch. Who is the 2024 version of the Pacino part? Who do you got, CR? Jon Hamm? Are we giving him one more chance?

It's Oscar Isaac for me. It's always Oscar Isaac. Oh, Oscar Isaac. I've been talking about Pacino. He reminds me of Pacino more than anybody of our current flock of actors. To me, Oscar Isaac, I could see doing this in his fucking sleep because we just watched Marriage Story. I think based on early Billions too, I go for Giamatti. Giamatti. Giamatti getting thrown up against the wall.

Half-assed internet research. Harold Becker replaced Gregory Hoblet as the director. Harold Becker did some good stuff over the years, but he came in late. And then it was inspired by Price wrote a 1978 novel called The Lady's Man and then kind of refashioned it.

So can I give you a little bit of intel on this? Yeah. So Richard Price writes a couple of these novels in the beginning of his career. Ladies Man, The Breaks, they're kind of like coming of age books. He wrote this book called Blood Brothers, which is like about New York gangs. It's really good. Ladies Man was based on an assignment he got from Penthouse. Oh, yeah.

Oh, the reason why I wanted to tell you about this bill is I know that as a as the unofficial mayor of the combat zone, I thought you might get off on some of the place names here. So this is what he said about ladies man came out of an assignment from penthouse. They wanted a series of three articles about public places in which you can go and either participate in or observe actual sex.

At the time, I had never been to any of these places, not even a singles bar. So he goes to a singles retreat in the Catskills. And then an old friend of mine took me to a bunch of gay bars like the Anvil, the Toilet, the Ramp, the Strap, the Stirrup, and our very own Eagle's Nest, Bill. Oh, the Eagle's Nest is back. Yeah. So just it all comes full circle back to cruising. Wow. Look at Richard Price, man.

On the ground. Doing the work. Yeah. Doing the work. Shoe leather reporting. Apex Mountain, Pacino, no. Ellen Barkin? It's either this or Big Easy, right? I think it's this era. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's probably this. Especially like the way Ebert wrote about her. Yeah, I would say yes. John Goodman hasn't happened yet. That's coming later. Probably Roseanne crossed with Big Lebowski. Phone ad, dating murder movies? No.

This is probably the apex, right? This is the apex for sure. The song Sea of Love probably didn't get any better. I think Sea of Love was like a massive hit when it was out. I think it was like the slow dance. Number three on Netflix is the number one for this. I think it had a bigger cultural impact. Pacino characters named Frank. So we got Colonel Frank Slade from Son of a Woman. I think that's the apex. We have Frank Serpico.

And we have Frank Keller. So how would you rank those, CR? I think I'd go Slade, Serpico, Keller, with all due respect. Yeah, I mean, he won the Oscar for that. Yeah, I did wonder if Serpico was number one. But yeah, I think you're right. He won the Oscar for Frank Slade. Late 80s Yankee fans, I'm going to say yes. Michael Rooker, I don't know what it is, but it's not this. It might be Cliffhanger, him taking a personally that Sly Stallone tried to save his girlfriend without a safety harness. We're still trying to figure that out. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, and then that's all I got. All right, picking nets. So...

Would Alan Barkin's character really recover from Frank flipping out and locking her in a closet? I feel like that's the end of the date. It's like he gets nine strikes in this at-bat. It's the end of the date, Wes. He shows up trashed to her apartment where her daughter is sleeping. He tries to ask her to live with him, but gets bombed there. He throws her in a closet. He lies about what he does. He almost starts a fight in her place of business. It's crazy. It's crazy.

Okay. There's all of that stuff. And then there's when I met you, you were a cop investigating a serial killer. Yes. Who you thought I was and then fucked me. Okay. You thought...

You thought I was a serial killer and still fucked me. I don't know which one is worse, bro, that you once thought that I was a serial killer or that you were willing to fuck serial killers. Like, what? No.

No, sir. I'm sorry. We cannot date. I'm sorry. We, we, we, sorry. Also it's Ellen Barkin. She could have done a lot better. Yeah. There's some, there's some hedge fund guy in the late eighties. She could have met. Yeah. I think locked in the closet. It's probably a deal breaker, but you guys just listed seven more. She could have started dating Kiki Vandaway, you know, Kiki Vandaway.

Oh, man. Yeah, I'd pick a nitz. Frank revealing that he was on a job when they met was absurd. What'd you got, Wes? Frank still being forced to work with the dude who's now porking his wife. Forced, yeah. It seems like he loves it. He's like, got him in. It seems like they could have found a way to separate those two homies. Yeah, maybe put him in a one different, yeah, put him in a 76 instead of 73. Yeah. Yeah.

If they got married, her name would be Helen Keller. And I don't know if that was intentional or not, but I probably would have brought it up in the writer's room. Maybe we call him Frank Kelly.

The Helen Keller thing is just too weird. Or bring it up in the movie and be like, hey, if we got married, I'd be Helen Keller. Yeah, how hilarious. Yeah. But hold on. Just a quick question, though. Yeah. As a New York City guy, what is the last name Keller supposed to be like ethnically, as in ethnic white? What sounds like Scottish? I think just like German-Irish kind of. Yeah, or German-ish. Okay. So...

Another pick and knit. How did Michael Rooker's character know every time she was going on a date? He was probably following her around in his little cable van. That's a harder thing to do in New York City. So just every night, it's like, what are you doing tonight? I'm going to go, that girl I dated for a while, I'm just going to go stand in the sidewalk across from her building. She works at a shoe store that opens and closes at the same time every single day.

So he knows when he needs to go see her after work. She never notices him, not once. She's like, hey, that's that guy I dated. Why is he outside my building again? And people wonder why getting their cable serviced in New York City is so problematic. It's just like these guys don't have their eye on the ball. Yeah, true. That's a good point. That's all I got for picking nits. I have one, which is sort of also an unanswerable question. It's just like, what are the legal precedents for the Yankees brunch? Like,

Like, we're currently watching Donald Trump just like kind of like sail through multiple federal trials. Yeah. But like they can just give like a group warrant serving at a Yankees brunch. Like that's not entrapment at all. And then immediately pour shots to celebrate Frank's 20th anniversary while the convicts are in the room. That part's pretty weird. It was the 80s, man. It was before Giuliani, man. You could do certain type of things when you use the police. That's right. That's right.

So sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all black cast are untouchable. I'm adding the rarely seen. I don't, I think there's only a couple of times we've ever even suggested this as a possibility, but remake would be pretty interesting with Tinder instead of the newspaper dates and just put it in this movie in 2024. I just have it written down app of love. Oh, I love that. And it's just like, they're trying to find a serial killer using like dating apps.

Plus that could be an Olivia Rodrigo song. Like I think there's a lot of tie-ins. It's app of love with the serial killer element. But for me, it's basically the first season of Homeland.

but the chick's a serial killer. You feel me? Like Brody was a terrorist and it's like, wait, is she really fucking a terrorist as a CIA agent? It's basically the exact same thing. It's a cop chasing a serial killer and fucking them the whole time. And it's like the tension, like, are they really the killer? Are they actually falling in love? Like to me, it's just Homeland all over again. Sign me up for that. Or call it Swipe Dead.

Swipe. Good. Swipe. Last swipe. That's good. Also, make it all black. Make it all black. Just don't let Michael B. Jordan be the lead. He's the black Misha Barton. We don't need it. But make it all black, though. We can do it. All black cast would be good. All black cast with Tinder instead of newspaper ads.

And no Michael B. Jordan. So Michael B. Jordan's out. Yeah. What's spurred on your Michael B. Jordan shots? He's terrible. He's awful. He's awful. He's a great looking guy. I'm happy for his success. He's a terrible actor. There's just no way around it. And he's been bad for a while. He almost ruined Friday Night Lights. Go back and watch The Wire. Terrible Wallace. Just horrible Wallace. Wow. Have you seen? Have you seen? He owe you money? What happened? No, no, no, no, no. It's not. No,

My pants are on fire. You know what? It's funny you should say, does he owe me money? It's one of those things where like, you know, I talk to a lot of black people. Like you would think that like Michael B. Jordan was...

I don't even know, like Wesley Snipes or something. He's not. He's just not. He's bad. He's actively bad. We may have to bring back the hottest take just to get Waz's Michael Regal stuff. This is unbelievable. I mean, this is why the hottest take was so great. I got to say, I thought he was bad in that movie. What was it called? Just Mercy? Oh my goodness. It was a little miscast in that one.

But I'm pro-MBJ. Also, I don't know, how did we manage to redo this movie, TV show, and not mention Sidney Sweeney, Bill? How did that happen? In the recasting couch? Because I think the cops have become knocking down Bill's door. There's a SWAT team. You need somebody who's like a little older. I think you need somebody who's got a single mother kind of situation. Some failed movies away. Just one Oscar, who gets it?

I think Richard Price for screenplay. I just love the dialogue in this movie. Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Trejo, Catherine Han, Steve Buscemi, Sam Jackson, JT Walsh, Byron Mayo?

Or Philip Baker Hall. Byron Mayo is a pretty interesting addition to this. I know that there is probably a feeling that this would fit Wayne Jenkins great because it's a cop situation. But if Robert Loggia had played Al Pacino's dad and it was Byron Mayo and he was like, Frank! Alan, don't fight! I'm right here! Yeah!

We got a single size bed over here. We got some Johnsons and Johnsons. We're just going to get in there. We're going to figure it out. What's mine is yours. It just throws up in a garbage can. Yeah, we need a Byron Mayo in that. I'm with you. Probably an answerable questions. So I actually counted how many cigarettes Pacino smoked in this movie. I think my count was accurate. It was 12. Just 12 on-camera cigarettes.

Over the course of, I don't know, 100 minutes. It felt like more. I probably would have guessed like 18, 19. I might have missed one or two because I was taking notes. But any unanswerable questions for you guys? What's Helen's mom's take on this whole situation? Yeah. He had a feeling Helen's mom has seen some things. Yeah. Where she's like, well, you know, at least he has a job. She'd kind of reached that level. He's got good benefits. Yeah. A stable pension. He's got health care.

Yeah, that was pretty rough. Anything from you, Wes? Well, this marriage lasts longer than the wedding because he mentioned his previous marriage didn't last as long. And I'm just like, how quickly does this thing end? Like, how fast does this just burn up and smoke? So I had that in the Andy and Red's one day award for what happened the next day. I was going to ask you guys, how many months does this go? I'm going to say less than four months.

Right. And he's definitely drinking again. He's like, I'm seven weeks sober. Oh, I know. That's definitely not around patting himself on the back. He's just like, by the way, I haven't had any double doers club, club soda and lime. That's going to last till maybe February. Uh, yeah, I think four months or less would be my guess. Right. I think so. I think that's the over what piece of memorabilia would you want from this movie?

So having the actual See a Love record that she plays in the thing, I think that would be pretty cool. Which you think is an overrated piece of pop. Well, just that, you know, or the red jacket. Maybe the Ellen Barker red jacket. I would go for Pacino's Loafers.

Oh, that's a good one. Pacino's sunglasses that he wears into the office the night after the dates, which is like the sunglass trick because I'm severely hungover and got zero sleep last night. Very great glasses, but just like, come on. You're wearing glasses indoors. We know what you did last night. Coach Finstock Award, best life lesson. I think Waz hit it if...

You had sex with somebody who admitted after that he was on a job and thought you might've been a serial killer, but he had sex with you anyway. Might be time to call that one quits. That might be it. Yeah. Might be time. Good luck. Godspeed. Let's have a handshake and a hug. I think if there's any relationship you're in where someone close to you says, are we going to dust your dick for prints? You probably strayed down the wrong path in the woods, you know?

Did we talk about Goodman enough in this pod? Because we're almost done. I thought Goodman was a great sidekick in this. Because we've seen the kind of jolly, fat cop sidekick over and over again in movies. We even see it in Basic Instinct a couple years later with George Zunza. But I thought Goodman was really good in this movie. I really enjoy Pacino and Goodman when they go brace the guy in front of his whole family for leaving the ads. Right.

So are we not going to talk about some of the best quotes from this movie? Sorry, Bill. I didn't mean to step on you like that because there's just too many one-liners in this movie. I love it. It's horseshit, but I love it. Oh, my God. I'm the arresting... Hold on. The arresting officer was the fucking doer. It's a joke.

I think also come the wet ass hour, I'm everybody's daddy is really the number one draft pick. And then you're killing me. Yeah, I want, there's a Goodman Pacino buddy cop movie that never happened in the late 80s, early 90s that we get a taste of, but I think I would have enjoyed. Who won the movie for you, Wes? I mean, it's...

I've never been more clear on a winner in my life. It's Ellen Barkin. She is this movie for me. She's the center of it. She's the soul. She's the sex. She's the...

Everything, the passion. And I like that she doesn't play it one note. Like for me, it's always about the changing of the speeds. And you know, when you see her with her mother, the way she talks about her kid, when she's like, Frank, you want me to move in? Like, I come with a kid. Like, this would mean a family. Like, this isn't the type of thing you just gloss over. I just love how she plays this character in such a 360 degree manner. So for me, it's...

She wins the movie by far. I have that as well. Okay. All right. Let's bring in producer Craig. We threw yet another movie that was at least 20 years old at him. This one is 34 years old. And incredibly erotic. What were your thoughts, Craig? Two thumbs up. I don't know.

I really enjoyed it. Um, I, I really agree with you about Goodman. I think he really brightens up this movie. Uh, I kind of have a hard time believing that Pacino has chemistry with anybody, like especially women, but even men and Goodman managed to kind of work with him. The physical contrast is great. Goodman is just like a giant. There's a scene where they hug and at the end and you're like, God, he is like 180 pounds heavier than Al Pacino. Yeah. Um,

So I thought that was awesome. I also, I just like the way they meet is hilarious. Goodman meets Frank one time. And in that meeting, Frank gets hammered and fights his ex-wife's husband. Yeah. And the next time Goodman's character sees Frank, he goes, you want to come to my daughter's wedding? I know.

You like weddings? Maybe he wanted to liven it up. Having gotten married recently, I'm just like... He's also like, do you want to dance with some bridesmaids? Just doling out a wedding invite like that is hilarious. But in general, sex with the possibility of murder...

It's probably the most compelling thing you can watch. It's so electric. Yeah. It's the highest stakes. You need Sex Murder Month. The most dangerous game. The most dangerous. Sex Murder Month. I feel like we've done a few of them now. I guess we have. I think it was just bad planning by me because we could have done Body Heat. We could have done this.

Could then jagged edge. Also, you want to talk about like a spinoff series or something they could revive? The undercover cop restaurant setup thing where they're like in the kitchen and they're- Yeah, they're serving the drinks. The waiter, like the, you know, Goodman's the waiter one day, but she knows the waiter the other day. That is the most electric setup. She's still at the bar, so she gets her feelings hurt. Oh my God. That is a whole world you could build around. That is an amazing idea. I've never seen that. So scripted series, Craig's thinking. Yeah. Oh.

Oh, I think it's a cool, like an undercover cop restaurant or something. Maybe this should be what the third season of The Bear is about. There's an undercover cop in the kitchen. I love it. Craig, did you think she was the killer? No.

I don't know why. I thought it'd be too easy. They were setting you up to think it the whole time. Also, the most recent sex murder comedy we did was, so I married an ax murderer and she wasn't the killer. And so I was like, there's definitely, I was trying to figure out who it would be. I didn't see Rooker coming though.

I can't believe we didn't mention that. We just did that like what, two months ago? And that was another one of like, the sex is great, but this person also might be a murderer. This movie also really builds the New York world really well. You get so familiar with it because the whole movie is basically just like these four locations that you just cycle between. It's like restaurant, police station, bar, apartment. And you're just kind of going around and around and you really get familiar and you feel like you kind of like know the world they're in. So I really liked it. That was great.

Yeah, I hate to sound like the old guy, but New York in the late 80s, early 90s was just more simple. And I thought the movie reflected that. New York is like super complicated. They blew out a whole bunch of different regions of it. And it's just so big and vast. But this was kind of the New York that I remember experiencing in a lot of ways. Anytime we went to go there and went out, and then it just kind of blew out.

So, Billy, you just reminded me of what one of my hot takes was just internally. Not that I was going to use, but you're reminding me now. It's just like, bring back crime in New York so we can get this New York back. You missed the old New York. Bring back the dystopia. Bring back this 42nd Street. But we got to let dystopia go for a little while longer, though, because we got to get working people living on the Upper West Side again. That's the thing is that Al Pacino and Ellen Barkin live up in the 80s on the West Side. 85th and 88th. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, but that was the thing. All the movies that were set in the seventies and eighties, that was the New York I knew. Cause they were only in like the same three locations. Now you have 40 locations. I mean, it's better now because it's way bigger. There's more place to live, but just from like, as a movie fan watching New York,

There's a familiarity with all the locations that I'm just like, oh, I get this. I've been here in different places. Is there a city right now, a 2023 city, where you're like, oh, it's really peaking right now in movies? Like this city is a great movie city. The 2023 version? No, because they do so much. We're shooting it in Atlanta or New Orleans or Vancouver for whatever city they're doing. It's so nasty when they use a Canadian city as a stand-in for New York. It's just disgusting.

There's been some Boston that they've pulled off a couple of times, but not steadily. Wise. Did you know that they shot the interiors for sea of love in Toronto, which makes sense. Cause ain't no way those, those apartments are way too big. Yeah. The apartments are not know that. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. All right. We're going to have to send your dick to the lab, Chris. I know. Well, this has been red fin corner. Yeah. This podcast was produced by Craig Horlbeck.

Waz, a pleasure to have you on The Rewatchables. CR, great to see you, even though we did this on Zoom, not in person. And we'll see you next week on The Rewatchables.