16. Alex Banayan: How To Achieve Your Dreams, Overcome Rejection, & Network With Anyone
48:28 Share

Hey everyone, it's Alex from Alex and Books, and you're listening to The Reader's Journey, the podcast that takes you on a journey to meet amazing authors, discover brilliant books, and learn valuable lessons along the way. Now, let's get started. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of The Reader's Journey podcast. Today we have Alex Benayan, the author of The Third Door. Alex, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank you, man. Anytime I'm on a podcast where the name is Alex and books,

It's going to be a good conversation. Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited for this conversation. And what I love about your book and kind of like my brand and like the audience is that we love when we hear a story about a book changing someone's life. And that's kind of exactly how your journey started this one day in the library. And you come across this book about Bill Gates. Can you take us back to that day and talk about how that book inspired you to write the third door?

There were a lot of biographies that I read early on about Bill Gates and Warren Buffett. And there are some business books that I read early on, too, like The Far Work Week and Never Eat Alone. But I actually would like to give some extra attention to one specific book that really, almost in a spiritual way, changed my life, even though it's a book on entrepreneurship. And it's Delivering Happiness by Tony Hsieh.

And Tony Hsieh has recently passed away at the age of 46. And your question is very timely because I've been thinking about it all week about how there's something. I was 19 years old. I randomly, I didn't even know who Tony Hsieh was. I didn't know even what Zappos.com was, the company that he was the CEO of.

But I was just at a conference volunteering because I was trying to, you know, network because I was 19 and, you know, get interviews for my book. And at the conference, they were giving out free books. You know, sometimes they have like a swag bag, right? Yeah.

And, you know, they had a free book and, you know, I would assume you and I would be similar. If someone's offering a free business book, I'll just say, sure. And the book was called Delivering Happiness. I was like, okay, cool. Sounds like a cool book, but I didn't have a reason to read it. And I remember putting that book, you know, just on my desk and not thinking about it.

And then when I think it was maybe, you know, the winter break or something like that, this is my freshman year of polygamy. I think I'm actually 18 years old. And as you know, I had this dream when I was 18, I realized the book I was dreaming of reading didn't exist. I was going through the what I want to do with my life crisis. My parents wanted me to be a doctor. I was a pre-med in college, but it felt like the

You know, life was being sucked out of me by this biology book, but I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I had no idea how the people I looked up to, how they did it. How did Bill Gates sell his first piece of software? How did Spielberg become the youngest director in Hollywood history? So...

As you know, I ended up going on The Price is Right and hacking the game, winning a sailboat and selling the sailboat. And that's how I initially funded my journey. But that was a weird way. The easy part, the hard part was convincing my parents that it's okay for me to not be a doctor and go chase this crazy dream. To write this book where I would go and interview all these people I dreamed of meeting and learning from.

And it was, it's like hard to explain how scary of a time that was because it doesn't matter if you're 18 or you're 48 or 58. Anytime you are in a tribe, whether that tribe is your family unit, your group of best friends, your coworkers, um,

And you tell that tribe that you're thinking of actually moving in a different direction and they freak out. My mom was crying and yelling and it was like a World War III in my house. They were immigrants from Iran and they came to America and sacrificed everything and got second mortgages on the house just so I could have an education and become a doctor. And I remember during that period of time, and it was a period of multiple, multiple weeks,

I would just sit in bed and just stare at the wall and wonder if I was like making the biggest mistake of my life. And I was in such a dark place and I was so scared. I didn't have a mentor. I didn't, you know, I'm 18. I don't have friends who are, you know, pursuing your dream at the time. You know, I was very lonely and I look over at my desk and I just see this book and it says delivering happiness. I'm like, oh, that's what I need. So,

I read for this again, and I don't know what the book's about. I don't know who the author is. I don't know what the company is. It's just this free book. And I just reached for it. I opened it up. And just even from the first page, I was like, huh. And it was one of those books and it happens rare. I can count them on my fingers where just the pages almost turn themselves. And yeah,

It was this story of a guy named Tony who, just like me, felt out of place. His parents wanted him to be a doctor and wanted him, you know, to go to Harvard and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And Tony was very smart and did go to Harvard, but decided not to be a doctor and decided he doesn't want to work at a corporate job. So he quit his corporate job after just two months and

Ended up starting a company and everyone thought he was crazy. And then Microsoft, you know, bought his company, but offered him $50 million to stay at the company. And he walked away from the $50 million. It was just this story of a guy who,

He chose decisions for himself and not for what other people wanted him to be or thought was right. And at the time when I was 18, I didn't know what the word was to describe that phenomenon. I know now it's called courage. It's called courage, man. And it's a word that we hear all the time, but it's something that's actually very, very special and rare when you see it in full effect.

And reading that book, you know, I read the whole book in like two or three days, which I'd never done before in my life. Read a whole book front to back and pretty much one or two sit-ins. And I remember at the end being like, this guy Tony Hsieh is my hero. He helped me see at 18 that it is possible. The power of a good book. And I think this is why I...

Your podcast, your Instagram handle, your Twitter handle is so beautiful because books, unlike other kinds of media, for some reason, have this way of going very deep inside the heart of the reader. And when a story is told in the right way, especially a nonfiction story, I know with Tony Shade's story of Delivering Happiness, it helped me not only change what I believed was possible in this world, but it changed what I believed was possible for my own life.

That's one of the most beautiful gifts you can give someone.

Wow, that's just so incredible. And you're absolutely right. That's kind of the whole reason I started this whole book thing is just because books are so powerful. And just like you mentioned, they could completely change your life, open up your mind, and just show you this new path in life to not just success, but happiness overall. And that's just such an incredible story to hear about the impact Tony's book had on you. And yeah, that book completely changed your life.

And just like I'm sure your book has changed the lives of, you know, countless other people. So just thank you for sharing that, Alex. And so you mentioned courage. I think you talk about how you have this crazy idea to, you know, write a book about how the world's most successful people launch their careers. And as you mentioned, you end up going on The Price is Right, hacking the show and winning it.

And that's a crazy story in itself that everyone should read about. And yeah, the video is on YouTube too if you want to see the proof. This is a true story. It sounds like fiction, but it's completely true.

And so like you won this money and you have this dream. But as you mentioned, like you're a college student, you know, your parents want you to go to pre-med. I'm sure a lot of people could relate that they have this crazy wild dream. But the parents say, you know, it's too risky. It's insane. It's not going to happen. How did you find the courage to kind of, you know, follow your heart and follow your dreams and pursue like your passion in life? Very slowly and with a lot of trepidation.

I don't think courage is a thing that happens in a swift motion. I actually think true courage is a very scary phenomenon. I think when people jump off a cliff without thinking about it, that's not courage. That's fearlessness, and that's idiotic. That's just denying reality, denying the consequences, and just jumping off the cliff. Courage is actually when you acknowledge the consequences of

acknowledge your fear, analyze the situation, decide that you care so much about it, you're going to take one tiny step forward anyway. And sometimes that courageous death is about you leaving the world you inhabit to set out on a journey to follow your dreams. Sometimes that courage and that speaking up when you see that courage

Someone is causing harm to others. And sometimes that courage is just looking in the mirror and telling yourself that you love yourself when you might have grown up in a situation where that wasn't the message you heard. But I do think, you know, Maya Angelou has this great quote, that courage is the most important of the virtues because without courage, you can't properly exercise any other virtue. Yeah, man, life is scary sometimes. Life is scary a lot of times.

I'm still scared of a lot of things. And I'm very grateful that actually the journey of The Third Door, you know, when I set off to write this book, I thought, oh, let me just go and interview all these people and get their secrets and put it all in one book and, you know, help my generation. In some ways, that's

It did happen in a certain way. In the book, as you know, it's Tim Ferriss' cold email template. There's Bill Gates' negotiating secrets. There's Warren Buffett's stories from his early career, how he got his first job. There's the whole spectrum. But on a personal note, my journey to get the interviews taught me more than I could have imagined.

Chasing Larry King through the grocery store, hacking more about the shareholders meeting. There's some stories that aren't in the book, chasing Steven Spielberg in the south of France with a dinghy and he was on his yacht. There's something about going after a big dream that just the act of courageously moving toward it, even though you're afraid, is a gift in and of itself.

And what's cool is that when you actually step into the unknown, let's say you're looking at the third door analogy. For anyone listening who might be unfamiliar with it, the premise of the book is that after spending seven years interviewing and researching the world's most successful people from

interviews with Steve Wozniak, to Jane Goodall, to Jessica Alba, to Pitbull, Quincy Jones, Larry King, Bill Gates, Lady Gaga. I realized every single one of them treat life and business and success the exact same way. And the analogy that came to me is that it's almost like getting into a nightclub. There's always three ways in. So there's the first door, the main entrance, where the line curves around the block, where 99% of people wait around hoping to get in. That's the first door.

And then there's the second door, the VIP entrance, where the billionaires and celebrities go through. And school and society have this way of making us feel like there's only two ways in. You either wait your turn or you're born into it. But what I learned, and you know very well, is that there's always, always the third door. And it's that entrance where you jump on a line, run down the alley, bang on the door a hundred times, crack open a window, go through the kitchen. There's always a way in.

It doesn't matter if that's how Bill Gates sold his first piece of software or how Lady Gaga got her first record deal. They all took the third door. And what's cool about the analogy is that it really works with the entrepreneurial journey in the sense of what you don't know or what I couldn't have known is that when you... The scariest part of the whole process, Alex, the scariest part is...

the line for the first door. You know, that's where your friends are. That's where your family expects you to be. That's where your school prepares you for. That's where, you know, if you think of even just the nightclub, that's where you're

You're on the safe sidewalk. There's a bouncer there. There's street lamps. The third door is super shady, man. You're in the back alley. There's some weird people back there. There's dumpsters and mud, and there's no light. But what you do end up finding out is there are people in this world who have taken the third door that when you have the courage to run into that alleyway,

you'll meet some of them and they'll help you. You know, to my surprise, one of the people I met when I was running down the alley and feeling lost and dejected was actually Tony Hsieh. Years after I read his book, I randomly met him by accident. And he not only became a mentor, but he became a friend. And even when The Third Door was published, he...

bought tons of copies for his friends and his coworkers. And the reason I share this is for anyone who might feel like they're on the fence and the fear of the unknown and the fear of the uncertainty is overwhelming. I just want to say it is hard. It is scary. It is painful at times. And also there are good people who will reach out their hand to help you. And

That, whether you want to call it the grace of God or a miracle or just the beauty of life and of human nature, there are those helpers out there. There are those good people. So you just have to, again, that's where courage comes in. Just have faith in that and take a step forward.

And it's just some wonderful advice. And like you said, it's I think the hardest part, especially like I went on like my own third door journey where, you know, I went to grad school and I thought I was going to be like a business major and get a corporate job. And that's what my parents wanted me to do. And I kind of did do that. But then I kind of I just felt empty inside. Like I was like, this is not for me.

And your book actually played a big role in about showing me like, here's this kid, 18 years old, just, you know, goes on this crazy journey, interview all these people, you know, Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak, you know, the list goes on. And like, if he could do that, like I should be able to like, you know, have my own like little third door journey. And the crazy part is like, I tried to, you know, work for James Altucher on his podcast because I hoped one day I could start my own podcast and

And I kind of, you know, I applied, I, you know, reached out to everyone on his team. You know, all of them were super nice, but they said there's no opening positions. And I said, you know what? I'm just going to start my own podcast. And eventually I had all these great authors on and I, you know, eventually reached out to James' team. He's like, sure, I'd love to come on your podcast. And it's like, I found my own third door to like achieve my dreams. Yeah.

And I couldn't be like any more happier in life. But like you said, it's not like an easy step to do. You know, getting out of that first line is probably one of the hardest things to do. And it is like a shady, dark alleyway that no one really tells you where to go. You got to find the path yourself. But you do meet these great people on your journey. I had so many mentors, like people that have helped me out along. And it is super scary, but I'm sure you could say the same thing. It's probably one of the best decisions you ever made in your life.

Absolutely, man. And hearing you say that just made my day more than you can ever understand. What you just said is the exact reason, exact reason why I spent seven years writing this book. It's the reason. So hearing that just means a lot.

Well, Alex, like you mentioned, this was like a long journey for you, you know, seven years. And you did get to interview a lot of these amazing people.

But you also faced a lot of rejection and setbacks. I know Steven Spielberg and Mark Zuckerberg, they both said yes to an interview, but something happened that it just didn't come to reality. So I'm sure a lot of people chasing their dreams also face setbacks or their dreams are just within grasp, but they can't reach it. How did you deal with setbacks and rejections on this long path that you've been on? Well,

Well, there's how I dealt with the rejections back then and how I deal with the rejections today. Back then, I would cry and get pissed and eat ice cream. And today, sometimes I still cry and get pissed and eat ice cream. Yeah.

Look, this is the thing. If anyone is setting out to start something new, it doesn't matter, again, if you're 20 years old, 40 years old, 50 years old, 60, it doesn't matter. If you're starting out to start anything new, the very essence of the fact that you're starting something new means that other people won't fully understand it and you're going to need other people's help and that's

dynamic is going to lead to rejection. Now, there's two kinds of rejection. I think of rejection really as like a door slamming in your face. You know, sometimes you might knock on someone's door and they slam the door in your face and you just shrug and walk away. Sometimes you knock on someone's door and you tell them about your life dream and they slam the door and for weeks you feel like shit. Right? It's the same door. It's slammed in the same way, but sometimes you shrug and sometimes you feel like shit.

I've been studying and researching a lot and I'm working on my next book right now, really trying to understand the second one. When you just, you know, the debilitating rejection, the ones that just make you just want to throw something at the wall because it just hurts so much.

because you put your heart into it and it's just so hurtful. What do you do then? What I've been working with is that the hard part about it is it's like when you're driving your car and the check engine light comes on and you don't really know what the problem is, but you know something's wrong. That's how I feel when I get rejected. I know my stomach feels weird and

I sort of feel like shit, but I don't know what the exact problem is. Like that's sort of how it is. And, you know, if anybody's dealing with rejections, um, who's listening to this, this is what I would recommend. So just like if your check engine light comes on, you have to go to a mechanic and do an auto inspection. This is what I would tell you. If you're getting rejected and you need some help here is an auto inspection you can do to fix the problem. You ready? Mm hmm.

All right. It's three things. And again, just like a mechanic, go down one, two, and three and check, open the hood and check out the car. First thing, the first thing on the auto inspection list, which this solves the problem for most people, when you're getting rejected and you feel like shit, the first thing to do is do a physical reset, take a fucking nap, turn off your phone, sleep in, go for a bike ride, go for a hike, go for a walk.

Go watch a movie Just close your computer and leave and come back the next day Feeling refreshed that solves the problem for like half the people Alex You know what most people actually do when they feel rejected They feel so shitty that they pull an all-nighter working double as hard because they feel so shitty and then the next day now They're exhausted and feel shitty It's like negative feedback

Yeah, and then it becomes just like they keep, you know, there's a great quote that says when you're in a hole, stop digging. So, you know, the whole thing, the first thing, if you're feeling rejection on the auto inspection checklist is do a physical reset. Just like, you know, you're turning your computer on and off, do a physical reset. That's number one. Let's say that doesn't work for you and you need more help. Okay, let's go to number two on the checklist. Number two is

is recalibrate your navigation system. And for an entrepreneur, your navigation system is really the reason why you started this in the first place. You're North Star, right? And what I would tell people is normally when you are feeling debilitated by a rejection, you forgot the big picture here. You lost sight of the big picture. And what I would tell someone is to take a sheet of printer paper, take a pen, and in one sentence, write the sentence

why you started this in the first place. So for me, with the third door, it was, I'm on a mission to inspire the next generation to believe in what's possible. And just writing that on a sheet of paper and taping that above your desk helps you realize, all right, fine, Spielberg said no today. This isn't about Spielberg. It's about this mission. So that helped me keep my eyes looking forward instead of staring in the back, the rear view mirror.

That's number two, but let's say Alex, let's say someone is still suffering from rejection, which is what I was when I was starting out. The third one is the final step of the auto inspection checklist. And if number one and number two aren't working for you, the third one is to disassemble your paint. Just like you would disassemble an engine, you have to disassemble your paint. And what you need to do is you need to call over another mechanic. You need a second pair of hands here.

And that second pair of hands can be a friend you trust, a mentor you trust, or even a therapist. And what you need to do is you need to ask yourself and you need the other person to help you investigate what the story is that you have in your head about what that rejection means about you. Is that door that's slammed in your face telling you you're not good enough? Is that...

Doors slamming your face telling you that your dream is bad, that you're dumb, that you're not loved, that you're unworthy, that you're not special. And what is that rejection telling you about your future? Is that door slamming your face telling you that you're never going to complete this dream, that no one's going to believe in you, that you're never going to make money?

Because then there's an underlying story that's actually causing the pain. It's not the door that's landing here. It's the story that you tell yourself about what that door means. So there it is, man. That's the auto inspection checklist. Anyone struggling with rejection can just work their way down this checklist and find a way to get that check engine light to turn on.

Wow, that's an incredible analogy. And yeah, I like how you broke that down. And yeah, it's like when you get rejected, it's not really it's not physical pain. It's like they're just saying no. But there's this huge like mental pain that comes over you. And I think especially step three is like a great way to like break it down and understand where is it coming from and analyze it. And especially the second one you mentioned is like you have to know your why. And it's like like one no answer.

Shouldn't really stop you from your entire mission if you have a big why such as you did you like you got rejected countless times over and over again But you kept going just because you had this super important mission that you were on and you were dedicated to getting it done And uh, well, I just think that's great checklist you have there alex. Thank you, man. I appreciate that so, um just to kind of lighten the mood here because I know we've gone kind of really deep and like into the emotions of um A lot a lot going on in the book

uh look one of my favorite stories is um how you met and uh had the opportunity to like interview the legendary author tim ferriss uh would you mind like sharing that story with us because it just like made me laugh out loud i love that one yeah i haven't uh funny i haven't shared that story in a while he uh

Again, you know, we talked about in the beginning, the books that really change your life. And when I was 18, one of the books I read that really opened my mind to the world was The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. And one of the things that really inspired me was that Tim wrote it when he was 29 years old. And at that time, and, you know, still even today, best-selling business books are not written by people in their 20s. It just didn't happen. Right.

And here I was with a dream to write a best-selling business book. And, you know, I had to talk to this guy, Tim Ferriss. You know, I had to. I didn't even know what I wanted to ask him. I just knew I had to talk to him, you know. I knew there was something he needed to teach me. I just didn't even know what. But I just knew I had that burning feeling. I had to talk to him. And what I did when I was starting my journey of The Third Door is I made a list of all the people I wanted to interview.

like two dozen names and I printed them on a small little note card and kept it in my wallet. So anytime I would ever meet somebody, you know, when you're at a event or having coffee with someone and you tell them about your dream, they always say, Oh, like who do you want to interview when you tell them, you know, it's just like the normal nice thing to ask. So what I would do is I would be like,

I would literally take out the note card because I was just crossing my fingers that maybe like one out of 10 people I would meet would know or have an idea of how to get to these people. Because I had no idea. I don't know. I was a random 18-year-old college student with no connections. Like...

I don't know how to get to Tim Ferriss. They just like kept like asking out these adults to like copy to, you know, get guidance. And eventually one person who I was having coffee with looked at my note card and said, oh, I know someone who knows Tim Ferriss. And I was like, really? And he's like, yeah, my boss went to high school with him.

I was like, oh, that's awesome. And this guy who I was having coffee with, his name was Cesar, and he worked for a great nonprofit called Donors2. And not only did his boss know Tim Ferriss, Tim Ferriss was on the advisory board for the nonprofit.

So I was like, okay, this is awesome. So that's our tells me, you know, write it, write a interview request letter, send it to me. I'll send it to my boss. My boss will send it to Penn. I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. My life is going to be incredible. Like, you know, you just get so excited. So I'm so excited. And I send the, I send it letters. I email it over and I,

You know, Cesar says, look, let's just wait and see what Tim's response is. But in the meantime, let me send you some like donors to gift card that you can give out to people who you interview. And I was like, that's amazing. You know, it's gift cards that people can essentially use to donate classroom supplies to kids who need it. It's like a very beautiful idea. So, you know, a week goes by and two weeks goes by and three weeks goes by and

A month goes by and there's no response from Confer. And, you know, I'm feeling very, very down on myself. And, you know,

I didn't know what to do. And one night I was just like brainstorming how to get to Pim Ferris. And I checked my spam of my email and there was this newsletter saying the Evernote conference coming to San Francisco next week featuring bestselling author Pim Ferris. And I was like, oh my God, this is a sign from God. I have to go to San Francisco.

And Alex, you have to understand, I'm 18 years old. I've never been on an airplane without my mom. Like, you know, you know, I'm like living, you know, I'm a kid and I'm like, and I just won the prices, right? So I had a little bit of money because I sold the sailboats. I'm like, I'm going to use my money from the price, right? And buy a plane ticket and go to San Francisco. And I'm going to,

At that point, I probably emailed Tim Ferriss' office like, I don't know, like 15, 20 times already. I was like, I'm going to print out all my emails. This is the stupidest idea. I was like, I'm going to print out all my emails to Tim Ferriss, go to the conference and show him the emails and he'll love me.

So dude, that's exactly what I did. I printed out all the emails. I bought a plane ticket to San Francisco. It was the first time I ever bought a plane ticket in my life. I fly to San Francisco. I go to this event. And the second I walk into the event, my stomach drops because I see there's hundreds of other people all with like copies of the four work week in their hands, all here to talk to Tim Ferriss. Shoot. Like,

I thought I was like, I was so naive. I thought it was the only person from earth who wanted to like interview Tim Ferriss. You know, I showed up to this event and there's hundreds and hundreds of people there, but I said, okay, I'm just going to be the first person to talk to Tim Ferriss. So I saw that the stage had stairs on the right hand side.

So I was like, okay, I'm going to get a chair, a seat right next to the right-hand side staircase. So when the speech is finished and Tim Ferriss walks down the staircase, I'm the first person he sees. So I get the perfect chair all the way on the right-hand side of this big auditorium. I sit down, the lights spin, people start applauding and Tim Ferriss enters the stage and

from the far left side of the stage. So now I'm on the opposite, the complete worst seat. I'm on the complete opposite side of the whole auditorium now. I'm like, shit, like, I just like came all the way to San Francisco, spent my money and I'm not going to be able to talk to Tim Ferriss. This is a disaster. And I'm like, shit, like, I'm like, think Alex, think, think, think. I'm like scanning the room and I'm,

I like noticed there's like a bathroom, like a VIP bathroom all the way on the left side next to the staircase on the left side. I'm like, that bathroom is literally like three feet away from the staircase. That's like my best opportunity. So dude, it's like so silly. I get up and I like run into this bathroom, but there was like a bouncer like in front of the bathroom. And I just sort of like,

I waved my hands over my bladder and I guess guys like sort of freaked out and let me into the bathroom. And I like go into the bathroom and I end up staying in a bathroom stall for, and by the way, I do not recommend this to anybody, but this is what I was doing as an 18 year old. I was in the bathroom stall with my ear pressed against the,

The tile wall, listening to the speech, you know, the smell of like urine and hand soap stinging my nostrils.

And I'm listening to the speech, waiting for the moment. And it finally came. You know, I hear the applause after 30 minutes and I jump out of the bathroom and sure enough, like a miracle, Tim Ferriss is standing two feet in front of me all alone. And I got very nervous because that's what happens to me. Whenever like things are perfectly right in front of me, I get very nervous. I call it the flinch. Um,

And I was so nervous, but I knew I had to do something. So I just took out and I had brought one of the donor shoes gift cards with me. I like just whipped out a donor shoes gift card from my back pocket and just like handed it to him. You have to understand from his perspective,

like an 18 year old jumped out of the bathroom and gave him a gift card. And Tim looks at me and he's like, uh, thank you. And he was like, Oh, like how do you know donor shoes? That's awesome. And I'm like, well, um, they actually, um,

We're helping me get in touch with you. And he's like, really? And I was like, yeah, I'm actually writing this book where I'm interviewing the world's most successful people to uncover how they launched their careers. And I'm reaching out to people like Bill Gates and Maya Angelou and Jane Goodall and Tim Ferriss. And he said, ha ha, that's very funny. And I said, no, seriously, I've been emailing you. And from my other pocket, I whipped out like the 15 emails.

I hand him like 15 emails like an idiot. I give him like a big stack of paper. He's like, thank you. You know, I tell him like about my dream to help the next generation. And he goes, all right, let me like look over these emails and I'll get back to you in a couple of days.

And, you know, he like squeezes my arm. We take a picture together. He was really nice. And I think like I'm on cloud nine. And of course, two days pass and I don't hear from him. Two weeks pass, nothing. Two months pass, nothing. And I just start emailing his office over and over and over again. And they keep saying no. And finally, for some reason,

After my 30-second email, out of nowhere, they say, Tim would like to speak to you tomorrow. Literally tomorrow. And I'm like, oh, my God, persistence. It worked. I'm genius. I thought I figured out how to win at life, just harass.

What I didn't know was, and I found out later, I actually found this out a few years after that. I was at a dinner where I was seated next to Tim a few years later. And he told me the real story. And the real story is when the Donors2 CEO at the very beginning sent my message, my interview letter to Tim, Tim actually said, no, thank you.

The Donorshoes CEO felt bad for me and didn't want to tell me that I got rejected, so he never told me the answer was no. After my 32 emails, Tim was so upset and annoyed at me that he called the Donorshoes CEO and said, what the hell is wrong with this 18-year-old?

And the CEO of Donors2, like, God bless him, said, look, man, you know, he's definitely rough around the edges, but I think his heart is in the right place. And he's really trying to help people. And that is actually what led him to say yes. And I didn't learn my lesson about over persistence then. I had to learn it later with Warren Buffett, but.

It was a really funny story. And the interview with Tim, of course, was amazing. The cold email template of how to reach out to VIPs was incredible. So I'm very, very grateful for Tim. And as life would have it, when I went to go get my publishing deal, I ended up getting the same publisher that published Tim's for our work week. And what I didn't know, and because life is just weird like this, my publisher said,

was on the fence about whether to give me the deal or not because I was 20 years old. They had never given a deal to a 20-year-old. And they secretly, without telling me, called Tim Ferriss and said, what do you think? Do you think we should do it or not? And God bless him. Tim said, I think you should do it.

Wow. That's just, yeah, for everyone listening, that's just one of the many incredible, wild, funny, hilarious stories in this book. And it's just, I mean, that's such a cool experience, Alex. Thank you, man. Even as I'm talking about it, it doesn't, like, I'm not numb to how cool, how beautiful a full circle myth is.

And again, it's just a testament to the fact that life is hard, life is painful, and life is beautiful, and there's miracles every day. I mean, 100% agree there. And I just, I mean, I'm so happy Tim said yes, because...

Really? Because your book is really three books in one. It's like one is first your journey, which is just incredible of how you went and interviewed all these people. The second is like you learn about how all these successful people launch their careers. Yeah.

And then the third part is like you get all of this great advice. Like Tim Ferriss shares like this email technique. You learn from Pitbull about how you have to stay an intern. You meet Larry King and Cal Fussman about, you know, how to interview people better. And it's like three different books all wrapped in together. And it's just such a great story. It's hilarious. You know, so much great information. And yeah, super happy Tim Ferriss said yes. And you got this book deal.

Thank you, man. Me too, man. Me too. Yeah. And so, Alex, you know, I want to be respectful of your time. I wish we could talk for hours because there's so much, you know, great stories and everything. But, like, the closing question I always ask my guests are, what are two books that had, like, an impact on your life and how did those books change you? And I know you already mentioned The 4-Hour Workweek and Tony Hsieh's book. So I was wondering, are there, like, two more books that, like, really had a crucial role in your life? Yeah, there's been...

A few years ago, I would say about four years ago, my dad got diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. It was just one of those times in life where it feels like the ground has been pulled from under you and you're just like free fall. And funny enough, just like with that Tony Hsieh situation, I was sitting in my office, sort of like, you know, my storage closet where I

just sit and write. And I have all these books on my shelf. And there was a book, I have this rule in my life. It's not a rule, but it's just a thing that I do, which is whenever someone tells me a book changed their life. And it's someone who I admire. I just buy the book. I just buy it. And at some point in my life, even if I'm not going to read it this week or this month, I'm

If the person is someone who I'm like, wow, I really like how they live their life. And they said this book changed them for the better. I buy it on the spot. And there's this one yoga teacher who's just like the most inspiring person to me. And she said the book, When Things Fall Apart, changed her life. So I had bought it and just put it on my desk. And it's When Things Fall Apart by Tim and Children.

So now a year later, you know, my dad has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. I'm like crying every day. I don't, you know, I don't know what to do. And I'm just staring at my bookshelf.

And you know how sometimes one book just sort of talks to you and says, "Pick me up." I don't know. I sometimes feel like sometimes books just talk to you. And again, I was looking at the style of the book and it said, "When things fall apart." And I said, "Yes, that is the definition of my life right now." And I opened it and I read it and it just completely changed how I view life, how I view my current situation.

And it was so powerful, like every single page is underlined. And I bought copies and gave them to my mom and my sisters too. And so that changed my life tremendously. And then I would say in this past year, there was a book called Einstein and the Rabbis.

And the subtitle is Searching for the Soul. And the book is written by Naomi Levy. And it's this amazing book about really how to reconnect with your soul and what that means. And because really, like, I think a lot of people, myself included, are searching for success and searching for, you know, going after a goal. What we're also searching for is that feeling of feeling completely alive.

And that's what this book's really about. So I would say those are two books that really changed me. When Things Fall Apart by Pena Chodron and I'm Kind of the Rabbi by Naomi Levine.

Well, thank you so much for sharing those. I've read Things Fall Apart, but I haven't heard of the second one. So, yeah, just like you, you know, I love asking people what are some books that changed their life. And because you never know, like, like, I haven't heard of, like, the second book and definitely going to check it out after this podcast. And I'm sure listeners will, too. So good. It's like this little, like, secret book that, like, I think it's the most.

Underrated. You know, like some books, like everyone's heard of, but it's not that good. This is like the opposite. Like no one's heard of, but every time I like tell my, a friend of mine to read it, they're like, Oh my God, I cannot believe I've never heard of this book. This is incredible. Right. Yeah. It's one of those hidden gem books. I'm sure.

And Alex, I know a lot of people are fans of your books and like you kind of touched on this earlier, but you're writing a second book. Is it like still in stealth mode or can you tell us a little bit about it and give us like sneak peek? It's definitely in stealth mode. You're actually the first, this is the first podcast I even mentioned that I'm working on a second book. Oh, sweet. Yeah, I guess I wasn't planning it.

Surprise! Exclusive. Yeah, man. This is the exclusive drop. And it is a continuation of the third door. And if the third door was much more on the mindset of success, this is much more on the tactics of success. And that's where we're at. Stay tuned, man. Stay tuned.

Of course, I'll be sharing it with you as soon as it's ready. Of course. I'm super excited. I got like goosebumps here. I love The Third Door. So, I mean, if you're writing another book, you know, I'm all in. Would love to, you know, read it and, you know, of course, share about it and hopefully have you back again on the podcast to talk about it. I would love that, man. Let's do it. Awesome. So, Alex, I'm sure listeners have loved this conversation and I know many of them would like to connect with you or maybe even contact you. Where's the best place for them to go?

I, you know, if anybody is listening to this and, you know, like the conversation or ended up buying the, you know, the third door and reading it, let me know on Instagram. It's just at Alex Benayan. And on Twitter, same thing. It's at Alex Benayan. A-L-E-S-B-A-N-A-Y-A-N. And let me know you heard this podcast so I can say thank you.

Yeah, and for everyone listening, yeah, Alex is super responsive on social media. Yeah, and Alex, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, this has been such a wonderful, genuine, and heartfelt conversation. Thank you so much for writing this book, for sending me a copy, for inviting me to New York to meet up with you, for coming on the podcast. I'm sure your book has changed a lot of people's lives, and mine is definitely one of them. So thank you so much, Alex. So beautiful, man. Thank you so much for saying that.

Hey, everyone. I hope you enjoyed this episode of The Reader's Journey. You can learn more about what's covered in today's podcast in the show notes below.

If you enjoyed this podcast, the best way you can support it is by subscribing and leaving a positive review. If you're looking for reading tips or book recommendations, head over to alexandbooks.com. If you want to join my reading journey, you can follow me on Instagram and Twitter by searching for Alex and Books. That's all for now. Thank you so much for listening, and I hope to see you soon. Read on, everyone.