There’s a Freedom You Can’t Put a Price On
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is the Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life, specifically with your money, your relationships, and in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. That's 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by John Deloney, and we are here for you this hour. The good doctor is in. The sign is hanging on the door, so that means relationship, the mental health questions related to money are just in that category, and

And we have a lot of fun together. And we'll talk about your work as well. If you feel like I need a bigger shovel, I need more money to get through those baby steps, I feel like I'm overlooked, I don't know what I want to do, whatever. So we're taking all those questions, your money, your relationships, your work, 888-825-5225. Question for you before we take a quick call. When you check in at a hotel, do you drop the doctor on them?

no you've earned it no i don't i appreciate that i don't because we have a mutual friend dr les parrot and i'm outing him he watches the show so this is for him he watches on tbn when he checks in he goes dr les no he doesn't i promise you oh no and it irritates me yeah and so this is my case my mom and my my wife

were dr deloney long before i was right and so you didn't feel like well by the time i got around to it they're like oh that's cute and they patted me on the head and we'd already done the celebrating so so there you go yeah sorry les we love you my mom named me john there it is i love it all right let's get to ryan who's joining us now in orlando florida ryan how can we help yeah good afternoon guys and thanks for taking the time to talk to me today sure what's going on so

Um, well, I would like to know my question outright is should I hire a CPA to help get my wife on board with budgeting? And so I had said, I know avoidance cannot be a strategy. And I think that's why I'm reaching out is because we are avoiding we avoidance.

We don't fight about money because the conversation never gets started. And we've been married 11 years. Okay. Usually I seek out a professional when me trying to do it will, A, I can't do the task, whether it's changing the shocks on my car or re-roofing my house or trimming trees. I don't know how to do it or me trying to do it is going to make it really bad. So have you tried to talk budgeting with your wife?

I have, and I would tell you that in the past, you know, she has shut down. She's had panic attacks. I usually get an, I can't today, or will defer to, I trust you, babe. And, you know, I take it as a compliment, but it leaves me nowhere. Do you come at her with spreadsheets?

I have provided one. I've never put it in her face, but I said, when you're ready to talk about it, I have one made, and I've had one made for 11 years. Let me ask a question here. So when she defaults, you said she gave you two answers, not today or I trust you, babe. So when she says I trust you, babe, do you actually then create the budget and execute on it? Absolutely. Does she fight against it? Nope.

So why do you need to hire a CPA when she's essentially following the budget? She just doesn't want to do it.

Here's the doozy. We keep separate accounts because she is paranoid of having any financial responsibility. All of the cars, the house, everything's in my name because she chooses to not have her name on it. She does not want that. I get it. Do you budget money for her or is it her income goes in her account? And so this budget we've been talking about is just your income in your account. Explain that to us. But I do track and I know what her cyclicals are. I just...

don't influence them in any way. Oh, man. John, the onion is unpeeling for us here. So, here's the best way I can say this. This is just me as a guy who grew up living in Texas. I walk to you and I can say, hey, my name is John. What's your name? Or I can walk up to you. You're in Orlando. Say, hola, me llamo Juan. Como estas? Muy bien, gracias. You too? When you come at your wife...

with a spreadsheet and say, hey, I would like to talk budgets with you. She knows, A, she can't compete with you. B, somewhere along the line in her world, the fear of being left underneath the weight of a bunch of expenditures has set her body into a fight or flight. And solving that with insta-data is almost never the right way to approach it. If you were to approach her with, hey, honey,

I'm scared to death to do this by myself, or I'm so lonely. Would you please talk to me about this? Because I feel like I'm on an island. Now you're talking a different language. You're talking to language that somebody who's high, who's, who's emotions feel like they're on fire, whose feelings feel hot. Now I can understand that language. I understand what you're trying to say to me. The spreadsheet we get to after we get through all of the layers is,

Yeah, but John, I got to jump in. I think that's great advice, but the first issue is they have separate accounts, and you're nailing the trauma issue. But she can't, for some reason, she doesn't trust this guy. That's what I'm getting at. That's the bigger issue. That's where I think he has to come in and say, hey, I haven't proven myself trustworthy to you yet for any number of reasons. And it might not be you, but laying it out that way and saying, I'm giving you an invitation here.

Right. Hiring a CPA is just hiring a bigger spreadsheet and calculator. By the way, the CPA is going to hate you. Yeah. Because once he realizes what you've hired him for, he's going to be like, I'm out. Yeah. You need a marriage counselor before you need a CPA, brother. Yeah. Because the roots of this thing, Ken's right, the roots of this thing are deeper than budgets. Do you know, Ryan, specifically what the roots are here? What's going on where she is this way and doesn't want to have a joint account?

She had a financially controlling stepfather that kept them on the wrong side of, they were withheld from everything growing up. Ta-da! Ding, ding, ding. And here's the thing. She had a tough childhood, and it sucks. And the pain there is real, the trauma there is real, the nervous system wiring is real. And then she looked at you and said, I do. And so now she has a choice. Am I going to bury this marriage forever?

in memorial to the trauma I had. I'm going to recreate it here or I'm going to do the terrifying, scary thing and I am going to seek healing. That's a choice she has to make. But that's not, you don't start with that choice with a 10 key, with a calculator. Okay. You start that choice with, I want to build a united marriage because I promise you that's not the only thing y'all are separate on. Fair? Yeah.

I don't know. We get along great. We have regular talks. I feel like this is the only thing. I would love to talk to her. I guarantee you do. How long have you guys been married? 11 years, 11 and a half years. Yeah, John, I'm interested to see what you think of this. I want to recommend to Ryan that he pay for it.

Yeah, absolutely. Him lead here. Nice dinners or whatever beforehand to where she feels super safe and supported. Not like, hey, I'm taking you here to get this fixed. But I do agree with you. This is a therapy. This is a bigger issue. My promise, if you have everything in your life is on point, it's all together, you're connected. And it's just this weird thing over here that happens so, so rarely.

There's something in her world that says she's not safe. I think that's where we start. What do you think about a free copy for his wife, Own Your Past? Absolutely. Own Your Past and Building an Unexist Life. That can give you a roadmap to creating something new in your house so you can talk about money. Ryan, hang on the line. Austin will get you both books. It's a gift, but don't force him on her. Just bless her with it. This is The Randy Show.

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NMLS ID 1591. NMLS ConsumerAccess.org. Equal Housing Lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me in studio here this hour. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Hey, if you've been listening to the show or watching the show for a while and you've got a question,

but you're nervous. Can I just tell you, we're going to make you feel really comfortable, at least try. And we're not against you or for you. And we're not here to shame you. We're here to support you. So give us a call. 888-825-5225. Money question, relationship question, mental health question, work-related questions. We're here for you. Logan is up in Helena, Montana. Logan, how can we help?

Hi, guys. I just want to say thank you, first off, for taking the time to answer this question. So I purchased a vehicle a couple years ago, took out a vehicle loan on it, and when I told all my friends about this, we made a bet that I would have it paid off by the end of the year. Otherwise, I would have to call you guys.

That was a year ago, and since then I've not paid it off still and have also taken out a loan on a truck as well. So you doubled down in some strange way. You're like, hey, brother, hold my beer. I can make my situation way worse. A little bit. A little bit. Hey, real quick, before we dive into this, what was the other side of the bet? What if you have paid it off? What would they have to have to done?

Just kind of be okay that I had taken out a loan for a couple years. That's a lame bet. I was going to say, really boring. I wish I would have asked. Kind of like Rachel Lee Cook on She's All That. Like, I'm just a bet. All right, go ahead. We're just a bet. I think I got the poor end of this thing. Well, you made the dumb bet. You did. Yeah. All right. So what can we do to help now that you have two loans? Yeah. So I guess my question is, is it better for me to sell both vehicles, go out and buy a

Probably. I have the one. Give us the numbers. The first one's up for sale. So the first car, I owe about $7,500 on. What's it worth? About $15,000. Okay. And then the truck, I owe $11,500 on, and it's worth about $14,000. Yeah, well, the math on this is really simple. How much do you make? About...

Before taxes, $60,000 a year. So bring home $45,000. Okay. Well, okay. So we always try to answer these things based on what we would do. And if I'm looking at this right here, I'm going to sell. You got three. I mean, I'm going to get rid of the – I'm trying to get to zero here. You only need one car anyway, right? Right.

Am I correct? Right. I have no need for two vehicles. I'd probably sell the car and take the equity and pay the truck right off. That's what I'm thinking. And then you've got a multi-use vehicle. You get $7,500 on vehicle one is what I wrote down. And you only owe... But it's worth $15,000. It's worth $15,000. So, yeah, that's what I would do. Okay.

I'll take that $7,500, roll it into the $1,100 note that you have, and get that thing paid off in the next four months, and then don't be a knucklehead anymore. That's what I would do. It's pretty simple stuff. I mean, you can do it whichever way you want to, but yeah, I'm selling one and paying off the other. But I want to get it done quickly. And hey, we have kind of a Ramsey policy, if you will, just some guidelines. The things that you own with wheels...

don't add up to more than half of your income. You're kind of right there ish a little bit ish sort of but not quite right.

Yeah. So if they were paid off, then I think I'd be okay. But they're not. Right. And even in what I like about this conversation is it's one step beneath the principles. Do you need two cars? No. All right. We'll sell the car. That's what I want to dive into. I'm just curious, Logan, not to criticize you, but I kind of want to get into what happened, John, in this situation so it doesn't happen again. Because the good news is you can get out of this. This is not a deep hole. Right.

But I'm just curious, you got some buddies who obviously believe like we believe, no debt, and they make this bet. And not only do you not pay it off, you go get another one. So what was going on in your head that led you to buy two vehicles when you only need one?

Yeah, that's a good question. So the idea all along was for me to buy a truck. The car has been for sale now for a little while, and the idea the entire time was to pay that off and then take that equity, put it into this truck. But then the truck came up for sale before I had had the car sold, and then I ended up with car loan on the truck, car loan on the car. So you have trouble with self-control? Yeah.

At times, yeah. All right. So the only way this works long-term is you're going to find yourself in this exact situation in a few months because someone's going to say, hey, man, the gas prices are whatever. And you're going to think, yeah, I need to keep my eyes open for just a small car. And then one's going to pop up. And you're going to be like, oh, I'll get a loan. Same thing's going to happen again until you decide I'm never going to borrow money on a car again, period. Yeah. It's never going to again. It becomes part of my identity. It's who I am. I don't do that.

And I have an 06 truck right now that the locking mechanism doesn't work. So every time I open the car to close it again, I have to stick a pin or a key in it. I just haven't taken it to get it fixed. And dude, I just, I'm not going to go buy a new truck. See what I'm saying? Like, cause I just don't do that. It's just not a thing. Yeah.

I love it. Hey, listen, you can do this. First of all, you know what to do. You need to do it. But the bigger issue is how did I get myself in this mess? And I'm lucky. I would say you're lucky here that you didn't get into a bigger hole. Those people do this with homes. People do this with crazy stuff. $100,000 trucks. Yeah. I mean, I could go on and on and on. How long have you had your car for sale?

Three or four months. Yeah, lower the price, dude. That's the other issue. Check the Kelley Blue Book and make it attractive. Yeah, make it attractive. Get underneath it. Get rid of the car. The burden is more important than I'm going to get that extra $500 or whatever. Who cares? Sell a car. Yeah. All right, Logan, let's do this. You lost a bet, Sid, to call the Ramsey Show. How familiar are you with our baby steps and that process?

Oh, completely. I've been listening to you guys for years. Oh, okay. I made some dumb decisions, and I knew it. Hey, listen, there's no shame in your game. I mean, that's not what we're getting at. I just was going to give you some resources, maybe kind of get you started on every dollar, something along those lines, because if you begin to take control of this, we all have impulse control, right? Like, I have to be careful how many bags of nacho chips are in my house, John. I've got to be careful.

I've got to be careful about the candy masks. Because when I walk into the pantry, if I see two or three bags or a bag,

there's a real chance that I might get into one of them late at night. Right. So the impulse control. So the idea is, is so now I've got to set some disciplines in place to where I go, all right, I shouldn't eat after seven o'clock. Right. Or whatever. And so this, in this case, you know, you've got some impulse control. And so like John said, I'm never going to take out a loan again, like ever. And you got to make that commitment. Right.

That's a big decision. John Maxwell said this years ago, John. I remember sitting there and listening to it before I ever met him. And I'm sitting there, and he was talking to all these young guys, young leaders. And he says, make the big decisions in life early and then manage them the rest of your life. I love that.

You know? Well, and here... And that's psychology. It is. But like you said, it means go upstream. What's going upstream in the Coleman house? We don't... I can't buy chips because I'm going to eat them. Right. I could, but I don't want to fight that fight every day because I'm going to buy them. In my house, don't bring candy into the house because you're going to eat all of it. You just are. And yes, I could white knuckle it and I could figure it out. I could get to the bottom of what I eat. Just don't bring it in the house. Right? Similar here. If I'm Logan, I would go put a freeze on my credit report so that

Somebody can't just pull a report. I at least put a hurdle in front of me. That's good. The next time I get an impulse to go get the car right now, at least somebody's going to stop me and say, hey, we can't do this loan. You need to make a phone call. And then that may be your moment. Right. But do some things upriver to put some hurdles in your way. Yeah. And that's what John Maxwell's talking about. That's managing those big rocks. Yeah. Right. It's so much easier, isn't it? When we go, I'm making this commitment. And now what do I have to do to keep this commitment? Well, it's easy to not eat chips. You don't have any chips in the house. Right. It's true. It's true.

Gosh, I broke some chips. I do too. I could use some chips. I'm telling you. We'll see what happens, folks. Don't move. We've got to do a couple quick commercial messages. You know how it works. But we're not going anywhere, don't you either. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. 888-825-5225. This is your show, America, because we talk about your life. Specifically, are you winning with your money? Are you winning in your work? Are you winning in your relationships? I can tell you this. If just one of those is a dumpster fire...

It's going to affect the others, and many times, they're all interconnected. It's why we talk about it that way, and that's why we take calls on all of those topics. Would love to hear from you today. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Detroit, the Motor City. It's the Rock City. Detroit Rock City. Detroit Rock. Well, it's the Motor City, technically, but I like it. Mary, how are you? Hi. Hi.

Thank you for taking my call. I am just wondering how to best support my husband in being the leader of our home, especially when it comes to finances, because he would definitely prefer that I take the reins in pretty much everything in our life. And I know that's really unhealthy for him.

And I just don't know where to start. Are you somebody who would let the reins go? I have to work really hard to always...

try and like make him make the decision if that makes sense yeah but i'm not sure that you answered i don't think you answered john's question let's say that uh your hubs comes in today and go hey i haven't been leading like i ought to i'm gonna take over this this this and this what's your reaction do you really let go i yeah or hey honey we're gonna be here tonight and you go great yeah

I don't say great, but I would say sure. Or I would say like... Hold on, Mary. Can I jump in as a guy who's been married 25 years? If Stacey says sure to me...

I have a follow-up question. Every time. John, am I right? Hey, can we eat here? Sure. Then I go, well, where would you, my immediate reaction to that from Stacy is, where would you like to eat? Am I right? Okay. Mary. Yes. Let me ask you this. I would say I would love to. If he's offering to take me out to eat, then I would say yes to whatever he wants. Okay. Paint me. I want you to step back a little bit.

The word lead means something different to everybody. Paint me a picture of what leadership, what you want from him specifically. Give me two or three things. Very specifically, you would like him to take the lead on and let you fully exhale in your home. What is it?

Finances for sure. Okay. What does that mean? Him go make more money or he pays the bills? We are going shopping. We are going shopping on Saturday. This is how much we have. Would you please maybe get a list together for me of what you think is missing or what we should be looking for? So you want him to make the shopping list and go do the shopping?

He doesn't have to make the list, but just basically making a plan and committing to it. Okay. Or if he says that we're going to do something as a family, then being like, okay, this is what we need to budget for it. This is when I want it to happen. Okay. Instead of just... What's the next thing? What's another picture of leadership that you have? Um...

Knowing that, let's say I need to work so many hours in a week or he needs to work so many hours in a week and then making that happen. Or we need to sell these things in the house. Okay, this Saturday we're going to spend four hours just going through this room and putting stuff on my plate. You're not talking about leadership. You're talking about you want someone to be engaged in your marriage and in your life.

Yeah, I want to do a follow-up. Let's go back to the second one. He tells me he knows how many hours he needs to work, and he does it. That, to me, we got deep pretty quick there. That tells me, unless I misunderstood, that tells me he's not being proactive, or at least you don't think he's being proactive in working as much, i.e. making as much money as he could be. Is that correct, or am I wrong? No, like he works...

Like he works a full-time job and he was working, um, an evening job because like we really, really need the income. Um, but we decided that I make more money per hour than he does. And my work is pretty flexible. Like I work at part-time for an accounting firm, but I could work as many hours as I want in the evenings. So we had made the decision that, um,

He was going to put in his two weeks at his evening job, and then I would work in the evening. But it keeps turning into, oh, hey, can we do this first? Or, oh, hey, this needs to be done. And I feel like I don't want to be like, okay, I'm ready to walk out the door as soon as he gets home, and I just leave. I feel like that's rude. Okay, and here's what you've said multiple times. I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel. And I'm speaking on his behalf now.

You haven't sat down and said, hey, you lied to me. We have those conversations. Okay. All right. Or I feel like you are completely unengaged in this marriage and in this house. Unintentional, right? You're married to a child and you're tired of being his mom too. Fair? Right. I don't want to be. Yes. Okay. I don't think that's my job. You're exactly right. And every time I try and step back.

we are all of a sudden three months behind in rent or we have our accounts been overdrawn for days in a row. And it's like, where did the money go? Oh, you're supposed to be working. Oh, but you asked like, so I keep trying to work more, but I also, we also have two young kids. Yeah. Have you sat down with him and said, honey, I'm, I'm, I am scared to my bones. After the, what does he say? After the live stream? What does he say? Um,

He apologizes. Okay. And then we have the same conversation, you know, once a week about it. What do you know about his background? What do you think? Tell John what you think is going on with him. He grew up with his mom running his life. Gotcha. He grew up with his mom running his life. So we could say, and I'm not trying to hang something on this guy, but we're talking to his wife, John. Right. Is it immaturity? Right. I feel like this is an extremely immature...

Yes. And where I have no compassion for him, like just as a guy who works really hard to be a good husband and be a good dad and to work really hard at my job, I don't have, I get not having compassion there. On the other side, I have great compassion for a guy who simply opens up his toolkit to help out when he has a wife saying, I'm scared because

I need your help. And he looks in his toolkit and there's no tools in there. Yeah. And that's where the reason I asked you to be very specific is this doesn't feel sexy. It doesn't feel romantic. It doesn't feel like Hollywood said it was, doesn't feel like the notebook, but he may need some very clear guidance. I need you to do this. Yeah. And if you've already done that and he looked at you and you remember behavior is a language. If he either said these words or acted these words,

I don't really care what makes you feel safe. I'm not, I don't really care. I'm not going to do that. Then you have to stop doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. You have to choose reality. And reality is I am married to a guy that does not care about his wife or his kids. He cares about. Yeah. Yeah. And he lives like,

He lives more like by his emotions. So like if we have a conversation or like I have a meltdown, a breakdown in front of him and he has a conversation, then he apologizes and he goes into what I call like the puppy dog stage where he's like nervous about everything he says. And that's why I started this whole call. I started this whole call. I started the whole call asking you, is he allowed to lead in his own home?

Do you have, do you lead, do you live by your emotions too? And leadership for you means you never feel scared or uncomfortable or sad or tired because if that's what leadership is for you, it doesn't exist.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking. I'm saying if leadership means I want a man that I never feel sad or scared or worried about money or frustrated or tired, that's not leadership. That's fantasy. It's not real. Oh, right. No, I understand. If you want a co-parent and a co-partner, if you want that...

And you want him to take the lead on some things? Yeah, man, that's all in. You've got to be very, very specific. And if he looks at you and says, I can't do this, and tell him, I don't want a puppy dog. I don't want, oh, I'm okay. I'm asking you. I need you to do these things. And then if he chooses not to, then you have to live in that reality. And I'd go see a counselor ASAP. Got to right away. Hey, Austin, hook them up with one of our financial coaches to get this process started. This is The Range Show.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance.

When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. We're here for you this hour, 888-825-5225. Let's go to the City of Angels, Los Angeles, California. Christine joins us there. Christine, how can we help? Hi. Oh, wow. How are you doing? Well, we're having a blast. How are you? You handle it? Deep breath? Ready to go? We're here to help. Thank you.

I'm good. Hi. So I'm 31. I'm married. I have a daughter. Me and my husband have been listening for about like five months now. We're on baby step number two with $14,000 in credit card debt. Now, my question isn't with that. My question is actually, I decided to go back to school, nursing school. And private school will be around like $70,000. And it'll be done in two years. Okay.

But also there's another choice of like community college, but it'll be done with like three to five years, depending on how fast I do it. How much will that cost? It's going to be around like less than $15,000. So it'll be $15,000.

and tell me what the difference five years yeah but three to five based on how much you can do so do you know what would have to be uh what the hours would be let's just say on a week or a month in order to get done in three years at 15k what would that require of you time wise

That's actually like the good thing about the community college is because they have night classes. So I can still work in the morning and like do at least three to four classes every semester. Well, and that gets you done in three years?

Yes. I bet, Christine, you can do it faster. This is a no-brainer. Here's why. Private schools often will put you in what they call a cohort, and it's very prescribed. Every hour is written out for you. Everybody does the same class in the same order at the same time. And a community college feels more, it's like a buffet. Come get what you want when you want it.

And they're going to tell you it's going to take about three to five years because that's the average. It takes somebody who's taken two classes at a time, maybe a third class. And then I got to drive back to one class because I got a kid that's sick. And so it takes about three to five years. Do what?

That's how I started. I actually already started with community college with one class. Okay, well listen, the course load to licensure is the same. Yeah. Okay, so that means you can do this in two years. You just have to follow that level of curriculum that you would be doing in the private school. Just taking the right amount of classes at the right time. Or do it in three years and get on with your life, right? Christine, I wonder if this is not about the money.

Because you just had already thought this through. As soon as I said, well, is it possible for you, for your family, for your day job to do this? You were like, oh yeah, well, I could do this. This is a three night job. So you've already run this through. So are you, are you, is there a deeper concern that you have as it relates to what?

It's more the time of it being three to five years or two years, just finish it. They already have the set schedule for you, but also the money that I'll be missing because I'll be part-time at my work. So you're going to have to be part-time to do the private school option? The private school, yeah. Yeah, but my point is, I think that's off the table, and I think you know that. When you called, I think you were leaning towards community college,

Except you're like, oh, is it going to take longer? My point is, do you remember the last time you saw a nurse yourself? A nurse? I worked in hospice. Okay, but I'm saying, I want you to tell me the last time you were a patient and a nurse worked with you. Do you remember that? Yes. Okay. Did you ask the nurse where she went to school? Actually, yes. Okay, what'd she say?

She went to community college. Did she kill you? Did you all of a sudden judge her because of that? Yeah, she started jabbing you with needles all willy-nilly and crazy. All right, that's my point. No. No, she was amazing. She was amazing, of course. Let me tell you something, Christine. This is very simple. This is a conversation with your husband to look at what is life going to look like

to knock this out in two to three years to John's point. I got to take X amount of night classes to knock it out quickly. I'm saving a lot of money by doing this. It's just going to cost me time. Can we do this? Hubs is on board. Your child, your daughter, how old is she?

She's six. Six. She has no concept of time. She's going to be fine. This is a family meeting about time and how our family's going to have to adjust to this. We're going to count the costs for three years. Because from a money standpoint, this is not even a conversation. Well, I get what you... Community college all the way. Well, hold on. But Christine, somebody told you this math.

They said, hey, you're going to make $85,000 as a nurse here in Los Angeles, or $100,000. And if you get done one year faster, you're going to make about $55,000 or $60,000 more. Well, that's how much you're paying extra to go to private school, so why don't you just get it done? Where that falls on its head is you are paying the private school $60,000 to force you to get this done in two years. Just do it yourself. Save $60,000. Yeah.

Remove the stupid tax. Everybody else buys that. That's exactly the story you knew. Do what? You knew the story that someone told me. Of course they did. We've heard it before. Yeah, that's fair. But that's not your case. Now, if you fart around and do like one class and then one class and then your kid is suddenly 11 or 12 and you have two classes left and it's five years. Yeah, but that's on you. I'm not going to pay a school $60,000 to force me in to do something. I'm just going to go do it. Yeah.

It's a marketing message, Christine. There's a reason why all those colleges have really big and nice buildings. Because they charge lots and lots of dollars. And they know how to market it. They've got a compelling conversation in their head that they've tested, and it works on you. So we just deconstructed it. But use your common sense here. This is awesome. You're going to be a nurse quicker than you think. Fantastic. You're going to save $60,000. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's mind-blowing to me. It's mind-blowing to me.

Just absolutely crazy. All right, let's go to James in Cincinnati. James, how can we help? Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call, Ken. John. You bet. Good to hear from you. So like a lot of callers, I'm in a mountain of debt. I'm 40 years old. I'm behind on my retirement goal that I hope to achieve someday. And I have an opportunity to double my income. I work remotely and currently have a job, and I have an opportunity to take a second job on top of that.

So I'm looking for advice on, you know, do I do it? Can I pull the trigger and say yes to that? What would be the reason why you wouldn't do it knowing that you're in a lot of debt and behind on your retirement goals?

Right. I don't have one. Then it's a pretty simple answer. It's called bigger shovel. Dave Ramsey's talked about that for a long time. More income, bigger shovel. Calendar management and stress. Calendar management and stress be the only kind of downfall. Which is why I asked you, what would be the reason not to do it? Is that a big fear or can that be managed?

I hope so. Well, no, no. No. We don't hope so. But also, you're stressed right now at how much you owe and how behind you are. So it's stress versus stress. It's three years of, this is going to suck. Is that worth the rest of your life, to back 45 years of your life to be free? If not, cool. Well, let me kind of paint a picture then. I've got a seven-year-old. I've got a baby on the way in April. My wife's not going to work when the baby comes. Yep. And...

I'm looking at probably 13 months and we'll be free. It's a no-brainer. This is absolutely every day of the week and twice on Sunday you say yes to this second job. Your wife's going to be home to take care of the kids. You're fine. You'll be tired. You'll be okay. But this is a no-brainer. You have to do this. Your 7-year-old will turn 8 and not have any memory of this and your newborn won't remember any of it and your wife will say, thank God I have a man who went and did what we had to do so that I can stay home with this baby.

That's a breath of fresh air. I appreciate you. And by the way, James, will this be fun? No. Will it be terrible? Yes. Will you be mad halfway through? Oh, you'll be furious. Do it anyway.

Yeah. You're going to exchange the stress of debt. I like how you put this for a stress of activity. For instance, I was working out last night. I'm in a new routine, John, and I'm not going to lie to you. I hate this part of it. Hate it. It sucked really bad. Felt great an hour later. I'm sitting at home. I told my wife, I go, man, I feel pretty good. I did not feel that way in the middle of the routine of that workout. So it's what you're getting on the other side here, James. So buckle up.

This is going to change your life forever. Absolutely, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Good man. Way to step up. Love it. Congrats, by the way, on the new one, the little one. That's going to be a lot of fun. And, Boyer, you're going to be setting that child up for a great future as a result of this 13-month grind. That's how you're looking at this. John Deloney, great hour. James Childs, our fearless leader, thank you and the crew for keeping us on the air. And you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life with your money, in your relationships, and in your work. 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. That's the number to jump in on the conversation. Dr. John Deloney joins me. I'm Ken Coleman. We are with you, taking you along on the ride the next hour. So how can we help? Jump in. I promise you there is hope, and we're going to help you see it.

Let's get to Lexington, South Carolina. Ken is there. Well, now this is Kentastic. We have a Ken on the line talking to a Ken, John. It's the year of Ken. Wow, there's no way you went Kentastic on us. What's up, Ken? James taught me that one. Ken, how are you? I'm doing good. How about yourselves? A pleasure to be here. Well, it's our pleasure to talk to you. How can we help today?

Well, you guys, my heart's pounding. I'm a huge fan of you guys. So, um, I'm gonna get right to it. I am in a relationship with a beautiful young woman. She is, you know, just absolutely amazing. Um, both of us ever since she's been in my life has been going to church with me. Um,

But I struggle a little bit with my own self-worth. I feel like if I'm not able to do certain things for her, be able to buy her the nice things and all that stuff, I feel like I'm failing as her significant other. This is a woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with, and I plan on making that happen at some point in time in our life. But I struggle a lot.

with not feeling like I'm enough as far as my income and stuff like that. What do you do, Ken, and what do you make? I'm a truck driver, and I'm local to my area. And I make roughly, I'm hourly now, so I make roughly about gross probably about $75,000 a year. Okay. Well, let's start with this, okay? $75,000 is a very good income, and if you look at, well, let me put it this way.

I can hear the TikTokers now. It's not a great income. I understand inflation where it is, but $75,000 has been a threshold for many, many decades in research where people say they achieve a certain level of happiness. So you're no dud. That's all I want to get to. I know John's going to dig in as to why you've got this worth issue, but let's just say that financially you're no dud. $75,000, driving a truck locally, and I would also say that you are nowhere near that.

have nowhere near reaching your potential as it relates to what you can make. You have more financial growth. So you're not a dud, and you have more potential. And I want you to hear that, and that's the truth. That's not a rah-rah speech. That's just based on the numbers and what you've done to this point and what that experience could allow you to do in the future. Do you understand what I'm saying? Absolutely. I appreciate that. But do you believe that? Because it's not a rah-rah speech. Do you believe that you can make more than $75 in the future?

I do believe that. I just think that with some things that happened in my past, I struggled because I did have a digital marketing business that I tried to start, and then right after I got my LLC back, COVID hit, and then it just completely tanked. So I pretty much just gave up on that, which I probably shouldn't have. Maybe you should have. Brother, who told you when you were real little that you always did it wrong?

All right. So it was not my family. My family has always been very supportive. As a matter of fact, whenever I went through my extreme dark valley that I got into in 2022, they were there to support me. It was actually my previous marriage that made me feel like I was not. There we go. There we go.

So here's what I want you to do. And what I'm going to say is going to sound cheesy, and you're going to roll your eyes, and I want you to actually go do it. Do I have your word you'll do it? Absolutely. Absolutely. It's a lot of trust, Ken. I got to tell you. I don't know what he's going to say. I want you to swing by Home Depot or Lowe's. Oh, I like where this is going. I want you to buy two brand-new cinder blocks. Okay? Okay. I want you to take them home.

And I want you to put some duct tape on them and get a magic marker, like a black Sharpie. And I want you to write on that duct tape a few of the sentences that your ex-wife used to stab you with. You're too fat. You're lazy. Are you seriously? This is what you think is dinner? I want you to write that stuff down on there. And then I want you to write down on the other one some of the things you said to you as your digital marketing business was falling apart and failing.

I knew we couldn't do this. This sucks. Man, she was right. I want you to write that stuff down. Okay. And then here's the exercise. I want you to set a stopwatch for about 20 minutes or 30 minutes, or you don't even have to set a watch. I want you to pick up those bricks, and I want you just to start making laps around your backyard like a crazy person until your forearms burn, until you can't physically hold them anymore, until your hands start to ache. Okay.

And I want you to go in the back far corner of your backyard and throw them on the ground and literally say, I'm never carrying this again. Okay. Because what you're doing is you're allowing your ex-wife to have access to your new relationship. You're allowing the fact that you got in the ring like all great boxers and got knocked down like all boxers do. You're allowing that knockdown to define your next fight.

And you're just carrying these cinder blocks around with you 24-7, 365. And you're not solving the past. The past happened. What you're doing is making sure you can't be successful moving forward. Enough is enough is enough. You're worth more than that, dude. Absolutely. I appreciate that. Is that fair? That is fair. Now, Ken, let me ask you this really quick. What do you want to do? What do you think about it? Well...

It's funny that you ask that because I kind of anticipated this question being asked, being that I've watched almost or listened to every episode almost on Apple Podcasts. And that's just genuinely direction that you go. But

I want to help men who went through stuff like what I went through. Um, I used to be a social media influencer. I actually had a half a million followers at one point in time. And when I, when I separated, I get, I got rid of it all. I didn't want to, I didn't want to be a part of it no more. And I felt like it was just another burden. Um, my big, my biggest platform was TikTok. So I know how the TikTok algorithm goes. Um,

and I now have a program that I actually started, and I want men to be able to get the help that they need and have that accountability that they're seeking so that they can be bigger and better for their family. Hey, Ken, before you pop in. Real quick, though, I've got to get something out. Okay, get it. Go ahead. Ken, I'm talking to you, Ken in Lexington. You have no business teaching men yet until you can walk the walk. Fair? Yeah.

Absolutely. Okay. Yes and no. Here's what I think. Wounded people help other wounded people in the battlefield. If you can drag somebody off, and here's where I'm going with this. I'm not going to try to turn this into a business yet. I'm not putting that on you, Ken. I don't want you to feel it, but here's what I do want you to feel. If it's getting back on TikTok...

and just being transparent and bleeding and let people know what you've learned about yourself and what you have walked through and how you're getting on the other side. If that helps one man, do that. And here's why I'm telling you that, John. I'm telling him that, John. I want Ken to get some victories. I want him to see that no matter how bad he's been hurt, damaged, whatever, you're useful. I think being useful is what he needs to do right now. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney joins me. I'm Ken Coleman. We're Ramsey Personalities, and we are your co-hosts today on The Ramsey Show. 888-825-5225 is the number. It's time for our question of the day. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. In case you're a new listener, what does that mean exactly? By the way, John, if I was a new listener and I had my lack of home services,

uh handyman talent i wouldn't know what home services what what is that i have no idea thank god for neighborly uh they're a family of locally operated home services providers who are dedicated to helping the stacy coleman's of the world survive there do you know what i mean their marriages to the ken coleman because i mean i can't fix anything thankfully i can call

And go check out Neighborly. You can start your search today at neighborly.com slash Ramsey. All right, I've got to say, I read through this question early. Oh, you did? I'm real excited about this question. Okay. I haven't read it. This is exciting. I think it can, we might even disagree on it, but I think. Oh, that's fun. That's a bird in my saddle. All right. Today's question comes from Alexa in Iowa.

My husband and I are on baby step two and bring home around $120,000 a year. We have $230,000 in consumer student loan and solar panel debt. Yes, a whole lot of stupid. My husband is a mechanic and has taken on side jobs in his home shop, which provides extra income. I am a CPA and would love to take on side bookkeeping and payroll work. However,

My office has the policy that we can't do that kind of work outside the office for ourselves because they say that would take away from the other employees. I'm struggling to find something that I can do remotely in the financial space that wouldn't conflict with my office policy. Should I talk to my boss or HR department to see what options are available? Or, ooh, this is the magic question, is it none of their business what I do outside of my business hours?

Okay. I would talk to the boss or HR department to ask for more clarity on said policy and gently and respectfully keep asking questions as to why we have the policy and how the policy affects her situation and the reality of that. Because policies to me

should always be guidelines and allow the leader flexibility or else we get stupid, crazy ideas like you have to wear your mask until you sit at the table.

And so my point is, meaning that no matter where you fall on that one, you kind of have to go, that doesn't make sense. And I'm not taking a position on that. But it's like, what? So that irritates me. And I don't know what you think about this, what I'm going to say. Maybe you're surprised by this. But I would say it is a case-by-case basis on what a business can dictate to me outside of this place.

I'm going to say case by case. That's probably fair. Because my knee jerk reaction is, you hired me to do a job. I agreed to do that job. Yeah. When I go home...

That's my home. I agree with that part. Right. I think she should be able to do this. And whatever I need to do to help out my family per our situation. Right. As long as you're not competing or you're in any way hurting the company. And I'm not using resources. Right. Yeah. And I think like, so if I have, if I'm a mechanic and I take your tools to my house to do work, you can't do that. Not good. Right. I agree. But if you say, hey, if you come work here and fix cars here, you're not allowed to fix any other car anywhere. Right.

That feels like an overreach. It is. You and I agree on that one. So when I said case by case, that's what I'm saying. But you and I, we can't go like...

I couldn't go take a gig. I can't go publish a book with another publisher. That's case by case. I signed a contract. That's case by case. That's right. I think common sense has to rule the day, and I don't believe that companies own people. Yes. And that irritates me. So let me be clear on this. Yeah. This pisses me off. It makes me mad. Okay, I'm with you. Okay, same team. The way she worded it, if she worded it properly, it doesn't even make sense.

We can't do that kind of work, bookkeeping and payroll work, outside the office for ourselves because they say it would take away from other employees. What are you talking about? Here's what that means. That makes no sense. She is capped on how many clients she can get.

During the workday. So she goes and gets her other clients. And what the business is saying is, whoa, whoa, whoa. If you can go get other clients, you need to send them to us so we can give them to these other people. Oh, yeah. No. All clients are our clients. Yeah. You know what that's called? Monopoly thinking. Do you know what the federal government thinks about monopolies? They break them up. That's right. And by the way, I agree. Yeah. So this is nonsensical. Yeah. This is, again, I don't want to go on a rant. It's just bad leadership.

policies shouldn't be laws. Yes. So let me give you a good example. I was having something delivered. Irritates me. And to my house. And I live out in the country on a long gravel driveway. And they said, hey, we can't deliver to your house. And I said, okay, great. Can you bring it to the office? And they said, well, the policy is we're not allowed to deviate from the delivery, the final destination. We wrote it in a contract.

I said, well, what's the option then? It's like, well, you wait at the bottom and it's about a quarter mile driveway. You wait at the bottom between the hours of one and five and we'll drop it off. I said, so I have to sit out there in my truck for five hours? And like... Yeah, they didn't think through that. And I said, can you just drop it off? He said, what's the policy? I said...

Can you just drop it at my house? Well, we can't because that's the policy. And I said, so you've created a world where you can't deliver the thing that you told the person. And it got real quiet. They said, we'll call you back. Right? Right. Because there wasn't able, we weren't able to think outside the policy towards what makes sense to get this guy the thing he ordered. Right. But let's keep going. Beautiful example. But not only is the policy nonsensical,

It keeps common sense from happening to where the person on the phone should have went, all right, here's the deal. I'll just call Herb. When he comes back tomorrow, he'll drive up there. He's going to drop it in your truck at your office? She or he, whoever's on the phone with you, doesn't even have the ability to solve the problem because of the policy. And that's up. Jocko talks about that. That's decentralized leadership, right? Oh, my gosh.

Only this person up here can make the decision and all of y'all run out and make my decision for me, which turns your entire organization into a bunch of admins instead of a bunch of thinkers and leaders. This is how common sense becomes uncommon. And that's where we are in today's world because we are operating off of policies, not principles. Let me attack something you don't think I'm going to attack. This is going to be fun. You ready? Okay.

Read an article today, James. I should have sent it to you, but here we go. The federal government, the amount of debt that each, the last two or three years, the Congressional Budget Office, the amount of debt that we are accumulating as a country is an absolute runaway freight train that is on fire.

And that is policy thinking, not principle thinking. So I'm attacking everybody in D.C. Sure. So that way everyone's offended and I don't get. But it's true when policy is, well, we got to do this piece of legislation here. We got to put this pork barrel. We're going to give this money here, this money. And it's like the house is on fire. Yeah.

We don't balance our budget. Can we all get out of the house? Well, we have to follow the exit plan. We've got to have a policy for this. Our policy says we've got to do this. And both parties...

Both parties. This is fiscal here. I'm talking about our nation is so crazy in debt. The dollar is in danger. You're talking about this is how nations crumble. And I'm not trying to freak people out, John. I'm just saying. It's wild. We got a fiscal problem. Yes. This is a money show? Yes. And all we talk about is, well, hold on. We got to do it the right way. We got to the policy. Yeah. And so anyway, I'm making a greater point to say,

shove the policy. This lady needs to actually... I'm going to go back to the last part of it, John. Here's what I think. Tell me if I'm wrong, and I mean this. I don't think she talks to HR. I think she just goes and starts doing it. I think she just starts offering the services. If it gets back to them, she goes...

Your policy was restricting my ability to go earn money. That's about as anti-American and anti-common sense as anything I've ever heard. Am I over the line? If there is a clear, what I don't want to do is cash in her integrity, right? I don't think that's an integrity issue. Civil disobedience is what I'm crying. Am I wrong?

I feel like I'm making you a little uncomfortable. No, I like it. I'm thinking through it real fast because the music's coming up. I like the idea in principle. I think they would have a right to fire her if she violates the policy. That's fair. Fair. I won't fight that. Yeah. But I do think there has to be a group of people who say, hey, can we do the right thing by people outside of the policy, please? I say go make the money, and if they give you a hard time, I think it was a Johnny Paycheck song. Take this job and shove it. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Kid Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Charlotte in Cleveland, Ohio. Charlotte, how can we help? Hi. It's an honor to talk to you guys. Oh, thank you. Well, it's our honor. What's going on?

So I'm having a good problem. So my husband just found out that he's going to be getting two substantial bonuses from his work. And I'm just feeling a little overwhelmed with what to do. We don't currently have a financial advisor, but I just am terrified to make a mistake.

But I also feel uncomfortable in that realm. It just seems like sometimes it feels kind of like the car salesman attitude. Yeah, you've seen too many movies, too many TV shows. How much fun are we talking? And my guess is you haven't sat down with a real financial advisor and had a conversation with them where everything they said made sense and you felt like, oh, I can make a decision. Is that fair? Yeah.

Yeah, I go every two weeks to my local Charles Schwab to do my self-for-one K. That's not what we're talking about. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a real advisor, you know. Okay, so answer John's question. How much money is this? So this year it's like $150,000, and next year it's going to be like half a million dollars. Okay. Did you grow up with much? No. Okay. Okay.

So in your mind, and it really will go all the way to your nervous system and your body, other people make that kind of money, not us. Yeah, we've always, we've done the Dave thing. We've been grinders is what we call it. And we're not bad now. Like we're worth like probably like half a million now, but we've, we've really like worked and all of a sudden it's like, just like plop in our laps. And I don't know. It's amazing. Do you have any debt? Weird.

No, we're five and six. Okay, so how much do you have left on the house? Probably about $250,000. Okay, so you've been listening to Dave for a long time, yes? Yeah, we got married at 22, and I am 29 now. So you tell me what you think Dave would say to you if he knew you were going to come into $650,000 over the next two years above and beyond your normal income, if I understood you correctly. Is that correct?

Yeah. Okay. What would he say to do with that money? Pay the house off. All right. So there's one thing, right? So we knock the house out with this bonus money. And who's doing baby step four? Who's guiding you through baby step four, 15% of your income to retirement? Who's doing that? You at Schwab on your own?

Yeah, we've just been kind of doing it ourselves just because we can't. Okay. I can't figure out the whole fee thing. Well, see, that's the problem. That's the problem. You shouldn't be figuring out how to do that.

I don't want to figure out how to build a house. I want to hire a great contractor who's built lots of houses and has a great track record. So, Charlotte, you've been around us enough to know what a smart investor pro is. These are men and women that have been vetted by our team. And in Cleveland, Ohio, there's probably more than a handful, a lot of them. And you can get to RamseySolutions.com and let's just pick five, okay, or three.

and set up appointments with them. Have a meeting with them. Look them in the eye. Do you like them? Was one a little bit weird? Was one a little aggressive? Was one really super amazing? Whatever. The idea is, and Dave has told people this for decades, you need to get someone that you feel like you got a good connection with,

That's A. B, does a really good job of explaining all this stuff that you're scratching your head on in the Schwab office. And you get to the point where you understand, okay, this is the difference between a Roth. This is the backdoor Roth. This is an IRA. This is what I'm going to do with my 401k. And you get to understand all of it. And they explain it to you until you get to the point where you go, okay, I want to do that. And I want to do that.

And you know why. And you have the common sense. You've got a lot of discipline. You guys can figure this out. But that's what you need to do so that you have a plan beyond paying off the house. What are we going to do with this windfall of income? When we look at baby step five, how much more will we need to put in there to the kids? We think that the nest egg is where it needs to be over the next X amount of years. The SmartVestor Pro is going to walk through that with you. And all of a sudden, you realize you're completely in control. And I think that's what you're scared of.

Yeah, that makes sense. John? So you didn't like that answer. Why didn't you like that answer? I just, I don't know. I just, I'm like a pretty like plan, like follow the plan kind of person. And it just, I don't know what to do. Like baby step seven is just so like wide open. And it almost felt like something was taken away from me. Like the plan. I think you're a control freak. Well, I think you've had to have control in your life to survive. Fair? Yeah.

That's fair. And so that same, that same action that kept you alive all those years is going to choke the joy in life out of this amazing work you and your husband have put in to change your family tree. Yeah. And so there comes a moment when you stop being gazelle intense, when you stop running for your life and then you start building something amazing. And listen, you're going to have to practice that because you've never done it before. What does that mean?

You have to look in the mirror and go, we're going to have a paid off house and both of our kids college funded fully. And we're going to have a couple hundred thousand dollars left over. And let's go to a really nice dinner. You're going to have you're going to do some things. And you're going to realize it didn't just solve your marriage. It didn't just fix everything. This is going to be a slow walk into a new kind of life. I'll tell you the things that have transformed my life. These are conversations offline with Dave, just private. He's a buddy of mine.

And talking about coming from a East Tennessee kid without a lot, he said, dude, I still to this day have to look at the ratios because the numbers are crazy. So I have to look at the ratios. Yes, this car that I can now afford with cash a thousand times over cost this much. What is it in relationship to how much I gave? What is it relationship to my salary? So somebody old you may have said $50,000 for a car. Are you crazy?

New you might say $50,000 is like me buying a $10,000 car five years ago. We're good. And we also increased our giving that much too. See what I'm saying? You're going to practice this new identity.

And it's okay. Yeah, we definitely want to give. And I think it is like the whole lifestyle piece. We live very frugally. Keep living frugally. But do something fun. Yeah, go on a trip with someone. Man. Right? You have to get out of your head that only they are successful. Because now they is you. Yeah. You're successful too. And you used to have some judgments about they. Yeah.

And now you're going to have to let some of that go because you know that y'all are a pretty good couple. Pretty amazing people. Yeah. Grinders. You know those little buckets that we had at Ramsey for a while for the kids? I don't know what the latest product is, but this is a give, like a little container. Give, save, spend. So what you do with this money is very simple. Give some, save a bunch, spend some. Ta-da! Okay. You get that. Okay, yeah. You get to decide.

Because you're debt free. Give, save, spend. And yes, you've been holding onto the rope for your whole life. You're 29. You're about to be 30 and you're about to be a millionaire. And then you realize the rope runs out.

Right? So you're going to have to practice that unsteady feeling for a while. It should feel weird for a while. That's all right. You're a millionaire. You know what may be fun, John? And I don't know if this... Tell me if this makes sense psychologically. It's almost like she should pick something to give to first. Yep. Get her out of the... Before she even thinks about her and her husband and saving and spending, just go bless somebody. Blow their mind with some of this. Go take care of somebody that you don't know that well or somebody who's kind of on the periphery. Ask your pastor if they know of a family. Go give. Go give.

And also put one nice thing out there that you're going to go get. It's time for my husband to get a car that actually works. Right. It's time for me to get a new washing machine that doesn't leak all over. Like whatever the thing is.

Put those things on paper. And then call yourself a SmartVestor Pro. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor, and they'll get you hooked up, they'll teach you, and they'll get you squared away. Charlotte, congratulations. You guys have lived like no one else, and now you're about ready to live and give like no one else. This is the Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. And we're going to take your calls, but we're going to do something a little bit different. This is fun. I want you to talk about it, John. I don't know how long ago it was now because time is like the older I get. I don't know if it was yesterday or three years ago, but you came up with a great idea.

to take on this loneliness and disconnected society that we have. And you came up with a great idea that became a runaway hit. And now it's got 73 editions. It's got 195 editions. Oh, see, it keeps going. And this is really cool. And so we're going to play off of this. But I want you to just give us 30 seconds on what it is. And then we're going to do something we've never done on the show before.

The short of it is I was talking to a buddy of mine asking him what people were struggling with out in the real world because I was working in education. And he said, I've been listening to you for a while, Deloney, me and my wife. We put all our screens away, all our phones and iPads. And now me and my daughters are just sitting in the living room staring at each other. And I was like, well, we'll talk to them. And he goes, okay, I'll just talk to them.

And then the light bulb went off and I said, oh, you don't know how. Yeah. I need some props. It's a skill set, right? And so it was as simple as, I'm going to give you some prompts and the results, I'm getting credit, the halo credit of people actually talking again. Right.

Without phones. Yeah. Communicating with one another, having fun, laughing, crying, whatever. And it's the questions for humans, man. Questions for humans. Questions unlock. So we're going to do a questions for humans segment here. And James is going to surprise us. Yeah. So James, you're going to, I guess, you take over. We're just now, you're hosting. Yeah.

Yeah, so I picked a few that are kind of fun and lighthearted and then some that are a little more serious. Oh, boy. We'll start with the fun ones. Am I going to cry? I don't know. All right. The first decks that you did were like real, you know, like what's your favorite poop joke? And now they've gotten real heartfelt and serious. That's right. I've had to grow up in this radio job. So first question is for John. Yeah, maybe John, and then you can answer it too. So what is hands down the best book, movie, or show of last year? Oh, of last year? Or this year, like just the past year.

Oh my goodness. I don't know, man. What's the best book of last year? I'm trying to think. I'm trying to think. I'm going through all three categories for what, like, what am I passionate about? Say it says book, album, and what? Book, movie, or show. Book, movie, or show. Of the last year for you. Or it could be one that you consumed last year. It didn't have to come out last year.

This is some great radio we're putting on the front row. Okay, I'll jump in. Okay, go for it. For me, it's the Yellowstone spinoff series, 1883 and 1923. I can't remember the last time. Well, I can. Last time I enjoyed a television show that much was Friday Night Lights.

I thought those two shows, fantastic. Loved them. Absolutely loved them. Only Murders in the Building. My wife and I got hooked on Seasons 1, 2, 3. That show is a masterpiece. There we go. We unlocked him there. There you go. I like all those. Those are great. All right, this one is for you guys. If you two had to buy a plane ticket right now for a guy's trip together, where would you go?

There's no way we'll ever come to consensus because I think we're wildly different in our like... That's what makes it so fun. You got to pick. To me, okay, I'll say it's a tropical situation where there is pickleball, golf, spa, you know, ocean, sand. That's me. Can I tell you where my heart went, Ken? Where? I want to go to Normandy. I want you to walk me through it. Wow. That got deep fast. Like if I could have Ken walk me through...

like the history of these places, I think every American should visit. Wow. And I don't know anything about it. James has been with me in D.C. I got to experience Ken in D.C., and I got to tell you, Dormody, that would be epic. That's really impressive. Boy, I feel really shallow after that exchange. That's cool. I'd get a tropical massage with you, too. Caribbean pickleball versus D-Day. That's it. Well, two very different trips, but both rewarding.

There you go. All right. What did you spend way too much money on in the last year? Oh, easy. Pickleball paddle. I went to a local lodge before a hunting trip and I said, I need you to make sure I'm not cold. And I said, I'm giving you a blank check, dude. And he came back and we went to the register and

Easily the most expensive clothing purchase I've ever made in my life. Buy a hundred mile suits, dress boots, everything. I'm picturing Jim Carrey's character in Dumb and Dumber when they finally make it to Colorado. I mean, dude, I've got hunting gear that I hope my son gets married in it because it's going to be way more expensive than any tux, but I overspent on that pile.

Now, see, I spent more than just that. I want to clarify my answer. But you said overspent. It's like there's a reasonable number for said item. But there's some things I spent way more money on. But I went, I didn't overpay. That was worth it. Oh, I way overpaid. Inquiring minds want to know what kind of pickleball paddle. Julep. Yeah. I don't know. But Zach over here. And I bought Sitka, the greatest hunting gear on planet Earth. I love it. All right. What are one or two of your New Year's resolutions this year? I don't do resolutions. Okay.

I have a fundamental stance against them. I kid you not, because all the data behind it, John probably knows even more about this than I do from the psychology side of things, but they just miserably fail. And so I read that about five or six years ago. And so I have a, I have a plan. I have a year plan.

for myself and then my wife and I. And so it's not resolutions. They're just like, this is where we're trying to get to. We got some destinations. Are there any highlights of stuff that you want to share? I know that's personal. Highlights...

Yeah, we want to do something really cool. I don't want to share it over the air, but there's a trip that we really, really want to do. And I know Stacey would not be comfortable with me describing that, but yeah. Is it a pickleball trip? Yes. It's tropical massages. I will tell you that I will look for a pickleball court at said trip. But yeah, stuff like that, financial goals. So we said, how much do we want to invest this year? What are we giving? Where? It's that kind of stuff. I don't get into the whole, I'm going to do dry January.

And I'm the opposite. I've got... You have a bunch of resolutions. I've got resolutions like... Give us one. In concrete. Give me top two. The two big ones are number one. And this is going to sound cheesy, James, and you're going to roll your eyes. I'm being dead serious. Because you'll know because you and I have worked together a lot. Very nervous. I want to become more likable.

And I would say delightful. I want people, when I walk into the room, people don't go, oh, God. I want them to go, hey. I want everyone's disposition. And I know that I come around with a heavy energy. I'm always having heavy conversations. Did you read this? You know about dopamine? And it wears people out. And so this year, I want to be a more joyful presence when I walk in a room. That's number one. I want to be delightful. And number two, I want to be on time.

It's been a tough January. Which goes toward the number one. It helps with number one. People aren't instantly mad when I walk in nine minutes late, right? That's good. There's an incredible woman out in the audience that we had a meeting with earlier, and I was late to that meeting, so there we go. That's how good we're doing. That's probably a good resolution I could add, but you get my point. I do, yeah. I want bigger goals.

So that it requires a lot of inertia. Well, and so for me to be more joyful, that means I got to pay attention to go to bed. I got to eat right. I got to quit eating so much junk food. I would say yours are legit. Yeah. To the point that I don't even, that's way heavier and bigger than a resolution. And that's why I like it. I want to binge press 200. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Resolutions to me, I hear it's always, I want to stop doing this.

I like that yours was, I want to grow. I want to become. Yeah, the research says if you want to stop a thing, that's pretty limited. Because usually you want to stop a thing because you don't like you. And so you're stopping a thing out of dislike for yourself. It never works. If you want to become something new, now you're onto something. You got time for more? Yeah, this one's maybe related, maybe not. So in what area of life do you think you'll need the most help over the next 12 months? Ken could use some hygiene help. I'm just kidding.

I'm going to need help on being on time. I'm going to need help on being a joyful presence. I'm going to have to practice this because it's not my natural disposition. I'm just kind of a

Do you have some principles or help with that? Do you have something that's helping you become more likable or are you just kind of taking a stab at it? Yeah, I've got a couple of things. It's a little too personal for the air, but I do have asked a few people to just point it out. Just point it out when I have heavy energy in a room. Are you open to the YouTube commenters helping you out? Nope. I am for that. Come on, help out. That'd be great. That'd be great.

I'll tell you, I need help navigating this next season and the next year when my oldest son goes away. I'm not trying to bring us down. I'm just saying that's new territory for me. And I know my heart's going to hurt really, really bad. But it's natural and healthy and it needs to happen. So anyway, I think I need to talk to some dudes who've been through that and it'll be good. But I think that's going to be weird.

That's going to be tough. Fun stuff. Way to bring down a room, James. Thanks. That was my fault. No, that was good, guys. Thanks. No, that was excellent. This is great stuff. Thank you, Dr. John Deloney, for that fabulous series. You can get it at ramsaysolutions.com. All 397 editions of Conversations with Humans. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show.

It's where we help people win in their life, specifically with their money, their relationships, and their work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. You can jump in. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour. 888-825-5225. Let's get right to it. Mobile, Alabama is where Anthony awaits. Anthony, how can we help? Hey, Ken and John. How are you all today? We're having a blast. What's going on with you?

I just, I'm sitting at the apex of the seat saw and I do not know which way to go. I love that analogy. I'm right here about six months away from being 62 and I cannot decide to retire or work another year or two. Okay, so let's just start with where are you leaning right now? We're not holding you to this, but if you had to decide today or five minutes ago, did it change? Where are you leaning? Oh, yeah.

leaning towards retirement. All right. And so what is making you question that to the point that you would call us to get our take? I've been doing it since 14 and scared to death. Scared to death to stop? Yeah, exactly. I hear it. How are you doing financially? Paint that picture for us. It's about 1.3, 1.4 cash. Total assets about 1.6. I

Just don't want to go home and twiddle my thumbs, which I wouldn't do that anyway. I'm a very energetic guy. I'll go in person. So let's stay right there. You can only travel so much. Now, hold on. Let's stay right there. So let's remove travel, okay? Uh-huh. I think you've allowed your mind to wander a good bit and maybe wonder, too.

So we're not twiddling our thumbs. Twiddling your thumbs is not even an option for you. You just said it. So what's something that you would be intrigued by doing or learning? What would that look like? Something that kept you active. We're not talking about traveling, but what would that look like? What comes to mind when I throw that at you? Because I know there's something in there. I've always been interested in working on airplanes and helicopters. I'm a mechanic by trade.

by trade. That has always intrigued me as far as how helicopters and all work. So I haven't even thought about it that way. All right. And I'm ideating here. Like none of this do I want to hang on you as, well, this is what you're going to do. But it's fascinating to me that you've been a mechanic for a long time. How long have you been a mechanic? Oh, I've been at this one job for 34 years. 34 years. And you know, you're still fascinated by fixing something else or tinkering on something else. And it's that new challenge, the way your brain works.

Let me throw an idea out at you. All right. I want John to jump in however he wants to jump in. But here's what I think. I think that the fear of the unknown is probably the greatest fear that humans face. That's just my take. OK, doesn't mean I'm right. And I think that what you're really afraid of is what does life look like? Because I have been largely in a very controlled condition.

conditioned schedule for 34 years. And on the other side of that is all of these unknowns. Most of them, I think, should be wonderful unknowns for you. And what's freaking you out is you haven't dug into some of these possibilities enough to go, oh, not only is this not scary, it's scintillating. And I think tinkering, fixing planes, helicopters, all of that's great. But let me throw an idea out for you. What if...

Two or three days a week, your schedule, you start fixing cars for single moms, or you get involved with a church program that maybe has a car donation program, or you just start finding people in your world. You start putting the word out. You say, you know what? I'm pretty good with mechanics, and I'm willing to come, and I'm going to do this. And maybe you just gave yourself away doing different things, but now it wasn't for a paycheck, and it was just because you wanted to do it. It was because you wanted to see a smile. You wanted to see a sigh of relief on the other side of it. How does that hit you?

It's funny you say that because I'm already doing that somewhat, but that would free me up to do it a whole lot more. How much joy do you get when you do it?

Oh, 100%. That's just one thing. John, what do you think? You say you want to change your neighborhood, man. It'd be cool if you started a little program for young men to come over and learn how brakes worked and learn how, I don't know, what a transmission was. And man, what a cool thing that would do on Sunday afternoons at your local church just to teach young boys how to change their own oil and things like that. That could be amazing. Hey, there might be a mechanical trade school locally where they need somebody. They need instructors. We could go all day. Yeah.

Hey, let me ask you this, Anthony. $1.2 million in cash, $1.6 million total tells me you've got $400,000. Is that invested or is that in your house? My house is not that much. My house is probably $100,000 and a quarter, but perhaps several automobiles and just cash money in the safe for emergency. Okay. I want you to please, please, please go sit down with the SmartVestor Pro. You've got way too much cash.

And with the way inflation is, your cash is becoming less and less valuable every day it sits under your bed. I do hold a lot of cash personally, and so I'm not against it, but you're holding over a million dollars worth of it, right? And I'm looking out for 81-year-old Anthony whose hands aren't going to let him get under a car, you know, turn wrenches or his knees aren't going to let him get under a car anymore. I want to make sure that guy is taken care of.

Well, I sure hope I make it to that 81 age. You will. My family tree is usually around the 75 to 78 range. But listen, you've bucked every trend your family's ever had, haven't you? I sure have so far. That's exactly right. Well, let's keep it going then. Let's live a long life. Man, you've got 20 years left to hang around. By the way, you're not going to die at 81. I'm giving it 93. That's my guess. But hey, I think you can. Here's the truth.

The data on retirement, America has sold us a bill of goods that the goal is to do nothing. The goal is to get to the end of your day. The goal is to get to the end of your job, the end of your career, so that you can have the privilege of doing nothing. And this, the fantasy of doing nothing is a lie will kill you. All the data says if you retire with nothing,

Your body falls apart. It doesn't have a purpose. It's got nothing to pull and it just quits because its job is done. So before you quote unquote retire, go ahead and set up a schedule for yourself. Go ahead and get a group of men that you're going to have coffee with once a morning. Go ahead and get one day a week at a local community college to help out. Get that schedule somewhat built. You can always back off of it.

But go to a thing. Don't aim to do nothing. You know, I think the word retire should be retired. Well done, Ken. Yeah, I know. I worked really hard on that the last two minutes while you were talking. It's called conception. That was conception. That was a conception, as James says. Here's what I think. Anthony, I really want you to look at this next season not as retiring, and John just set that up beautifully, but reinventing.

reinvent yourself because you can't. I like that. Because you can't, right? And so, hey, I was this for 34 years and now for the next six weeks I'm going to be this and then the next six weeks I'm going to be this and the next six weeks I'm going to be this or if I want to go the next six months or the next six years. I think the reinvention really is the way to do this and to age well. Can we look at the Anthony diagnostic code real quick? Really fast. You've always been successful. You're a great teammate. You're a millionaire. Yeah.

What does that mean? You have built the tools. You're a person who succeeds. And so in the next season, you're going to get nervous. You're still going to do great, man. We're rooting for you, brother. Way to go, Anthony. You're a stud. Go help people like you already are and watch opportunities present themselves for you to continue to reinvent yourself. You're doing great work, man. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is joining me this hour. Phone number is 888-825-5225. Let's go to San Bernardino, one of my favorite places to say. It's up there with Walla Walla, Washington. And what was the other place? Sheboygan? No, it's not Piccadillo. What's the place? I know exactly what you're talking about.

Yeah, we got into some trouble on that one. We did. That was fun. Serena joins us in San Bernardino. Serena, how can we help? Hi, thank you guys so much for taking my call. You bet. What's going on? Okay, so I found your guys' radio show, or your podcast, like two weeks ago, and my boyfriend and I have been listening to you guys religiously

And basically my question is, so I own a house that I have a very low mortgage on and I'm getting ready to rent it out. I'm going to make about $2,300 a month on that rental. How much do you have left on that mortgage? $200,000. Okay. And you're going to make how much? I'll make $2,300 a month on it. Okay. Keep going. Sorry.

Okay. My boyfriend owns a house. His mortgage is significantly higher. He just bought it a year ago. It's on a very large property. He rents the back property out to his sister, but now we're talking about moving in together and he has a friend who's willing to rent his house out. But by the end of it, we would basically be breaking even on that house. I make about 120,000 a year. He makes about 80. So I think we could have both houses paid off.

In 10 years, I just want to make sure that it's a good idea for us to keep both of those houses, rent them out as long as we're making money on one and breaking even on the other, if we can get it paid off in a short amount of time. Well, you've got a lot of stuff going on here. The we thing. How long have you guys been dating? Is this going to be a long-term play? When are we getting married? What's the status here?

Yeah, so we are eventually going to get married. We've been dating for a little bit over a year. He has like $3,000 worth of debt that will be paid off in two weeks and then I owe $12,000 on my car that I should have paid off in the next three months. Our plan is to eventually get married but it's

an eventual thing exactly so here's my thing yeah if if that's down the road then then this conversation shouldn't be framed the way you're framing it it's your house his house and it's not a we decision that's my take on this because i think it's very separate right now and here's the thing there's the you know we talk about being married when you're buying houses um and people think we're talking religious stuff which that's a component but

The big thing is, man, you're entering into, you and him are holding hands and walking into quicksand. You've got a giant home that he wants to rent. Part of it, he's renting to his sister and to a brother and then to you. And then you've got a home that you're, but y'all are going to both try to pay it off. We only have jobs. And this is the hardest part of my job, but it's being honest with you. We only have jobs because people have plans and the plans don't work out. People break up.

And so if you get divorced, there is a clear legal process for splitting things up. If you break up, it all goes to crap. It's a mess. And so that's why I would tell you, you have a house that you can choose to do with what you want to with it. And it's your house. If I'm you, I would stay in my house and pay it off. Yep. And be completely, you make 120 grand, you have a $200,000 mortgage. You can be out of this thing in a couple of years and be done.

He has chosen to dramatically overcomplicate his life by buying a huge property, having part of the mortgage relying on a sister, and then plus this, and then his buddy. What a mess. It's going to be a zoo, and it's a year in, right? He's not relying on his sister. He's owned this house for a long time, and she just happened to buy a trailer and is renting out the back part of the yard at this point. I thought you said he just got it a year ago. Yeah, so he bought it a year ago. She just moved in two months ago.

into his backyard. So it's not anything that he needs. It's just, you're missing the point. The point is if you want to live with him, that's one thing, but do you want to be a landlord on your current house? I mean, are you really up for being a landlord? You know, because, um, to me, you're looking at, I'm rounding down, you're looking at $25,000 a year. You're making off that house, you know, as opposed to just living in it.

You know, so I just, I agree with John. I think you need to take care of your business and he takes care of his business on the house until there's a we, we don't act and talk like a we. And I want you to understand you're going to be the live-in girlfriend on a property shared between a boy and his sister. Yeah.

And it's just, I'm telling you right now, I've just done this too long. It's going to get, there's going to come a moment when he's going to have to choose and you're like, oh, he would choose me. It's just going to get messy. And I know we're ruining your day completely, totally ruining your day. Cause this isn't even why you called. You want to know which one of these houses you want us to sell. And we're telling you neither of them, but.

It's, it's, it's, we just do this so much and we see it happen all the time where everyone's got great plans. Everybody's on the same page. And then one thing goes sideways. Yeah. And if you don't have the legal protection, it gets messy. Yeah. Yeah. Just because we love you. But I'd get that car paid off ASAP. I'm glad you're working on that. And by the way, I would not pay one penny of his debt. None. Not his credit card debt. And don't let him buy, pay for your debt. Fair? Yeah.

Right. And by the way, I love your idea. Listen, John and I love your idea of paying your house off in a year. Genius. Genius. Now all of a sudden, it's great. And listen, it's none of our business who you live with. We're not trying to get into that. What we're saying is that...

This isn't a we conversation. You've got to stop with that, right? If you want to sell this house and move in with this guy, that's... Yeah, knock your lights out. Yeah, go for it. But you'll have sold your house, take the equity, you'll have an account. You'll be debt-free, and it's your money. Everything needs to continue to be separate until there is a we. Does that make sense? Yes, it does. John and Ken at fundruiner.com.net. How are you feeling about this? So, honestly, I feel like there...

A lot going on in my head. I mean, I understand exactly what you guys are saying, like keeping everything separate. And we've had that conversation. My thing is we want to rent a separate house and move in together and then keep these both as rentals and then eventually have a large rental portfolio. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do it. Dave Ramsey went belly up doing that. You're leveraging...

debt and if you remember you're you're in uh california when just two years ago they prohibited people from uh evicting people who didn't pay the rent but the mortgages were still due yeah and so if you get a house and you've got a mortgage on it and he's got a house you got a mortgage on it you'll rent another house together and you're trying to do you're playing a shell game that will collapse on you i promise have you done this before have you rented your house before

No, I have not. Okay. Now I'm really going to ruin your day. So at $2,300 a month, that is what, about $28,000-ish? Quick math is what you would make. You said you'd clear that much per month on the rent, right? Correct. Okay. So let's call it $28,000-ish. All right. I have been a homeowner for a long time.

And I care about my house. I can tell you about renters. They don't care about your house. They may be the most nice, decent people in the world, but you're not going to see anywhere near $28,000 of profit. This I can take to the bank. So I need you to understand that. And John would tell you the same thing. You're not going to see anywhere near 28 grand or 2,300 a month just

Bing, adding up in your account. You're going to have to take care of that house. You're the owner of the house. You're the landlord. You got to deal with everything. The roof, the air conditioner, the carpet. When they flush too many things down the toilet. That's why we don't want you to rent a house that you don't own and go rent some other house. It's just bad finances. Forget the relationship piece. Do you get it?

Right, I do. We're on team Serena. And everybody keeps talking me into keeping it. Everybody's broke. Everybody's broke, Serena. Yeah. Hey, here's the most baller play. Have no mortgage at all. Boom. Nobody owns Serena.

Serena can do whatever the crap she wants. She can move wherever she wants because she has a paid-off house. That is actual financial security. Having four rental properties that the mortgage is being paid by the tenant. It's all a shell game. It's nonsense. And by the way, this is not a moral statement, but I'm going to go this direction. As your older brother, we're on Team Serena here. Don't live with this dude. Y'all be in a relationship. Don't live with him. Make him commit to you. Okay.

That's just my take. And it's not a moral imperative, but that's just relationship. And don't move into a place where the sister is too. Yeah, there you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back, America. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. We're so excited to have you. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney sitting next to me here. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. That's 888-825-5225. Boise, Idaho is where we go now. Sarah's there. Sarah, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah. So I'm 18 years old. I graduated high school about a year ago. And I am just really hesitant to start college or even trying to even think about going to college. I have no idea yet.

Yeah.

And there's this big daunting thing called the future staring at you. And when you don't have a lot of mechanisms to try to navigate the future, it gets even more intimidating. And then you just shut down and all your creativity kind of goes away. Does that sound about right? Yeah. All right. So.

I've been helping people figure this out for years and years and years, and I think what we have to do is simplify. So let's take on the first part of the question. We don't even consider college until we figure out direction. And I think direction is more important than destination. Destination can change, but if I'm heading in the right direction in my life,

Okay. Financially, relationally, spiritually, professionally. If I'm headed in the right direction, destination can change and I'm not losing track. So I think I want to forget about destination and we start to go, what about direction? So college right now is not even on the table because unless the degree is the only way to go the direction you want to go or it's the best way, then we know there's another way. Does that make sense to you?

Yeah. All right. So let's put that over here on the side. Okay. So 18, you've been out of college for a year. I mean, out of high school for a year. Okay. Yeah. I want to know, I don't care if it goes back to nine-year-old Sarah,

12 year old Sarah, 14, whatever. I don't care. I want to know the things that you have allowed yourself when you felt safe, maybe in your room, driving a car, whatever, sitting in a, an assembly at high school or a boring class. And you wondered about what would it be like to do this when I grow up? What are the things that maybe were pretty consistent or maybe the things that you got most excited about when you allowed yourself to do that?

Well, all throughout high school, I kind of had a plan for myself to try to get into medical school. But recently I've just, I don't know, I got cold feet a while ago. I work in a medical office now and I kind of realized, I kind of hesitated thinking if I don't think I could do that for the rest of my life with patients. I've also like, I had a moment of really loving astronomy. I've always, you know, I've always loved, you know, learning about all that. Um,

But also, one of the biggest things was wanting to maybe try to teach English out in foreign nations, like maybe somewhere in Europe or maybe even somewhere on the East Asian countries. Interesting. I've always had an interest in that. Okay. So, Sarah, I see a pattern here. And I want you to tell me if I'm not seeing this correctly. In those three different options, I see two options.

very clear people-focused ideas, and then I see some learning. I think you're a learner. I think you like knowledge and what knowledge does for people. Is that fair? Yeah. And I also think you really like people work, like taking care of people or doing something with people. I think that's the theme I see in the medical side of things or teaching a language. I think you're a people-focused person. Is that true?

Yeah, I can see that. Yeah. Okay. So real quick, I don't want to get you stuck in the weeds, but I think you could take the entire world of work, every job in the world, and I think you can organize them into four buckets. People work, ideal work, process work, and object work. What I mean by object is you're working with your hands and your head, but you're fixing something, building something. Does that make sense?

Okay, so John and I are in people work and idea work, right? Our work kind of is in both buckets, ideas in this form of content, John's books, his things that he creates to help people. So John and I are both people and ideas. That's where you would put us.

So I think you're in the people side of things, but I think there may be a little bit of process there in that education piece. Now, I just want to know, how does that hit you? Or is there another bucket that you go up, identify with? I'm good at people stuff and I'm good at process stuff. There's always a connection with those four. Does that make sense? Yeah. All right. What are you feeling?

I feel like that is just kind of what I've always thought about doing. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah. So here's the deal. So here's what I want you to do. Let's now, let's go. Okay, we know that medical work, or at least the type of medical work you're seeing in this office, is not for you. You got up close, and I love that.

But I want you to step back and go, what are all the different ways that I could take care of people? Because if you're in the healthcare world, you're caring for people. But there's a lot of ways to care for people. Teaching them a language is a form of caring for people. So I got a three-part exercise that I'm not going to make you answer on the air. And I want to bring John in too, because I know he's got some great thoughts here. He's worked with college students for a long, long time.

I want you to answer three questions in the near future. I want you to look at it almost every day. And I like a pencil because it allows me to be creative and I can erase and answer every day differently. Three questions. Can you write them down? Yeah, yeah. All right, here we go. First one is, who are the people that I most want to help? Get specific. Say, students in Peru one day. The next day, say...

people that are aging and I want to help them in convalescent homes or whatever. I don't care. Every day, if the answer changes, let it go and write it down. No wrong answer. Who are the people I most want to help? Now, the second question is, after I answer the first one, those people, describe them, then I want you to answer, what problem or desire do those people have? And you write it down. No wrong answer. Third question, what are the solutions to those people's problem or desire problems

that I most get excited about. You got it? Okay. Yeah. Now here's what's going on. This is a construct, John, for ideation. And I think that this is what we don't teach kids. Mm-hmm.

This is as dumb of a plan as I've ever heard in my life, but it works. And the reason what it does is allows me to ideate from my heart what moves my heart, and then I match it up with that last question is, where is my talent? What am I good at? And what am I good at that can actually be a part of the solution? Or what can I go get training on to become good at? To get better. That's right. I have some raw talent that with training, education, and experience becomes a skill. That's right. So, Sarah, I want you to take everything he said.

And I want you to lay it on top of this foundation here, okay? Okay. When I was 18 years old, I went to college to be a youth minister. That lasted about three weeks. Evidently, you got to read the Bible all the time, so I'm out, right? I then went into becoming a journalism major. I did that for about a year, and then I realized how much journalists made, and so then I went over to be business.

Then a business evidently, you got to take math classes because you have to balance balance sheets. And I was lost at sea. And then I went and saw a movie in the theater called Good Will Hunting. And I went that next Monday and changed my major because I wanted to be Robin Williams. I wanted to be a counselor at a small college behind closed doors.

And then they said, hey, we're out of majors. You've taken too many classes all over the campus. We can get you enough psychology classes so you can go to graduate school. But you have to have a humanities degree. So my degree is in humanities. It ended up being a great degree. History, writing, psychology.

Then I went to grad school for psychology, right? No, for education. And I got a master's in education, a PhD in education. And then I went and got another PhD in counseling. And you know what I do now? I'm a YouTuber. I have a podcast. Podcasting and YouTube did not exist when I was 18. All that to say is this. There is no wrong step for you moving forward.

Follow the plan Ken mapped out for you and then hold it all really loosely. That's right. Every step you take is going to be a step either like, oh, I'm not going to step there again, or I like this. All that is data moving you forward. It's a great story. It's back to what I said. Direction is more important than destination. Yes. What we can see if there was a theme though, for all those things, it was people. I like to help people. And, and that's the key. Great call. Thank you, Sarah. This is the Ramsey show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is sitting alongside 888-825-7000.

5-2-2-5 is the number, 888-825-5225. Time for our scripture and quote of the day. We start with Hebrews 10, 23 and 24. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Our quote of the day from Nick Saban. A little moment of silence for all Alabama fans.

All right, that's enough. He's retired, not dead, but Bobby the Engineer is in the control room, and that was for you, sir. It's going to be okay. I promise. You'll still win some football games. It's not going to be okay. Listen to this guy, the Texas Tech guy taking his shot. I get it. All right, Nick Saban's quote, mediocre people do not like high achievers, and high achievers do not like mediocre people.

Wow. That's a true... That's as true a quote as quotes can be true. I think that's true. I think there's an asterisk. I think some mediocre people like working for high achievers because they create a lot of paychecks. I...

Yeah. I'm joking. They don't like the... He's right completely. You're right. They like the halo. They like what they get from a high achiever. But when it comes down to it, high achievers make mediocre people feel uncomfortable. Yeah. I think that's good. High standards. I love it. Boy, that's not 2024 woke approved. That statement. That's a little too harsh, Nick. But hey, he can say whatever he wants. So you know why? He's not on social media.

And if he was, he doesn't care what you think anyway. And he wins. He does win a lot. Ashley is going to win. I just feel it, John. She's in Jacksonville, Florida. She is on the show now. Oh, I like that. Ashley, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, Dr. John. Thanks so much for taking my call. What up? It's really an honor. It's an honor to speak with you both. Thank you. What's going on?

Um, so I'm in the advanced stages of interviewing for basically my dream job. Wow. That's usually not what people say on the back end of the phrase. I'm in the advanced stages of, I didn't expect that either. Now don't just fly by that. Are you, are you comfortable telling us what this dream job is?

I'm not allowed to share the company, but it's a graphic design position. I would be working on a lot of really cool projects and things that I've really been interested in for a long time. Ashley, that's freaking awesome. Can we just say, way to go. Okay, so you're almost there. We haven't landed it yet, but you're on your way. What's up?

Yeah. So I'm obviously really excited about that. But the only thing I'm nervous about is if I were to get the offer, I would clearly have to tell my current employer that I'm leaving and I don't really know how to do that. Yeah.

I work for a really, really small family-run company, so it feels really personal when people leave, and I don't want to come off as sneaky or dishonest in any way. So I want some good advice on how to bring up leaving or giving a two-week notice in that situation. Okay, so it's really, do that.

Walk in the office with that plane, and if you can get a 90s era boombox on your shoulder, it will lighten the room for sure. People will say anything. I don't know what John's going to say. What I think is the most simple advice on this, I think you have to put yourself in almost a role play scenario, and I want you to be your boss, and I want you to think about

how you would want Ashley to tell you some really exciting news for Ashley. Pretty exciting. And I want you to think about how would you want you to tell the boss? I mean, that's the idea. It's like, if you're the boss, how would you want you to say it? And what comes to mind? Just free flow. How would you want to be told this information?

You know, probably like I've really enjoyed my time here. I've had a great experience and you guys have really made me feel comfortable and loved here. But I feel like it's time for me to grow. And I found another opportunity that will possibly help me in that direction. Well, let me say this. I put myself in your boss's shoes while you were talking. And if you said that to me, I would be sad, but I would not be mad.

Now I'm healthy, so you may not get that reaction, John. But I think that was pretty darn good. So here's my two critiques of that. Oh, gee whiz, man. Take it easy. I'm going to break your heart here. I will take them. I want feedback. Anytime I'm using the word but, giving somebody hard news, it always gives them an opportunity to hang on to something heavy during a very scary moment, a sad moment, a heartbreaking moment, an emotional moment.

So I really loved what you did for me here, but I need to grow, which in some ways is an indictment of them. It's not, but they can take it as that. They can hang on to it. I've loved everything you've taught me, but I think I can get more over here. Think about it this way and flipping it around and saying, I have a really tough conversation I need to have with you. And you sit down and look at them and say, for the rest of my life, I'm going to be grateful for the opportunity you gave me.

I've recently selected another position at another company. It's an amazing opportunity for me. And so here's my two week notice. As I leave here, I want you to know I love you guys. And forever, if I can do something to support you, I'm here for you. Okay. And then there's a period. And listen,

You need to know this on the front end. There's no words you can use to make this a little bit less hard. It's just going to be uncomfortable. Yeah. Because you love them, they love you, and you're moving on. It's just hard. Yeah. They may or may not. I really like that breakdown. That's next level analysis. She was off the cuff. She was. Actually, I want to build you up and say that it's about the spirit. It is. Not about the words. And let me just say, and I mentioned it a moment ago,

there's no guarantee that you handling it the way that you're going to handle it. Love that and very important. Is going to get the desired result that you want, which is them to go, oh my gosh, Ashley, we're so excited for you. We're going to be sad, but oh my gosh. Like that's what we want. And so I'm leading to something here. I cannot tell you how many times, Ashley, on the Ken Coleman show, I've had somebody call in and say this very thing and they're going, I'm dealing with guilt. And so I want to go ahead and get preemptive on this.

You do everything the right way. John gave you great advice. I think that was fabulous. You do it that way. That's all you can control is how you do it. But let me tell you something.

You cannot allow yourself to feel guilt about leaving people who have given you a great opportunity because you are leaving to another great opportunity and one does not cancel out the other. In other words, you taking another great opportunity doesn't crap on people who gave you the first opportunity. That's really important.

guilt is something that I feel if I've done something wrong, something illegal, something unethical, whatever. And so it's natural because good people feel that way. And I think, John, I'm bringing you back in here because I think we are so worried about what people are going to say about us and think about us. I am chief sinner here. So I'm speaking from a guy who is a people pleaser off the charts. Bottom line is,

This is a great opportunity. Handle yourself well and move on. Right. I want you to speak to that. I think most of us have such, contrary to what the media would tell us, I think most people have really rich hearts. I think so. And they don't want to be the cause of somebody else's tears. That's good. And so I will end up squashing myself. I'll squash opportunities. I'll squash hard conversations because

Because I don't want to cause you pain. And what we have to realize is that's kind of egotistical. That's not our job. Yeah. It's not my job. They're going to be okay without you, actually. And by the way, over the last few years, you've brought them a lot, too. I know you're good at what you do. Otherwise, you wouldn't be being hired at this rad new company. Yeah.

And so it's been business and it's been relational. And you know, from past experience, how they're probably going to respond, lose their mind, talk crap about you, hug you, cry, say, how dare you get out of here? You kind of know what's coming. And so the more you can keep that with an open hand and know I treated them with dignity. I gave them, I gave them notice. I was honest. I didn't say, yeah, but I mean, if you had given or, Oh, I always, always had this can always have a number.

What's the number when they go, what if we doubled your salary? What if we tripled it? Because you find yourself in a situation like, I think that's great advice. Just know, no, my time is done here. Thank you very much with a period. And I think, Ashley, you're taking this new gig for the ladder, not the money. The money's going to come, but you're excited about the work, yeah? Yeah.

Yes, of course. Way to go, Ashley. I'm proud of you, Ashley. It's amazing. You're an absolute rock star. Really proud of you, Ashley. Thank you for the call. Dr. John, always good to be in the scrubs with you here. The metaphorical scrubs. Not that kind of doctor. I know, just making bad jokes. But we both are wearing scrubs. James Childs, our fearless leader, and all the guys in the booth to keep us on the air. And you, America. Thank you. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.

Hey guys, I'm Rachel. And I'm George. And you've probably heard our voices before on The Ramsey Show. And do we have a surprise for you? Yep, we have our very own show, Smart Money Happy Hour, where we talk about pop culture, current events, and of course, money. George, it's a great show. And what else do we talk about? So much, Rachel. Not enough, and yet too much. We talk about guilt tipping, because tipping is out of control and I won't stand for it anymore, which is why I'm sitting. I'm glad you're taking such a stand. Okay.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about, Disney adults. Oh, George. Why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure. We,

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.