Chapters
Shownotes Transcript
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.
George Camel, number one best-selling author. Ramsey Personality would be my co-host today. He's also the host of the super popular YouTube show, The George Camel Show, with a K. Check it out on the Ramsey Networks. It's all there. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. Dusty's in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi, Dusty. How are you?
Hey, Dave. You're doing pretty good. Good. What's up? I have a question on what I should do. I'm planning on building a house on my parents' land during the next year or two. And I want to know how to go about it. So I've been listening to your show for about four months now.
And in that time, I've been fortunate enough, I've paid off about $26,000 in debt. Good for you. And I'll be debt-free right now in about the next three months. I should be completely debt-free. And I want to know, should I... So I live next to my parents right now in a tiny house that I built last year. So my question is, should I...
save up for a down payment and get a construction loan to finance the house? I'm doing a barn dominium, one of the barn do kits. Or should I just save up and try to pay it all out in cash and be able to do it over the next probably three years to be able to build the entire thing? I have been in construction for the past 13 years, so I'm pretty handy on that stuff. Cool. So you're single.
No, no, I'm married. I'm married with one kid, and I got one on the way. Wow. In a tiny home? That's impressive. Yeah. Or crazy. I'm not sure which, but yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's also a big factor. Now, my wife, it's not, I mean, it's about 500 square feet. She wants us, she said she's okay in it, that she doesn't need, you know,
immediate big house or anything but I don't know I kind of feel a sense of urgency with the next kid coming on the way okay so explain to me um the land is going to be retitled to you so a couple years ago um I did a business on the land and they they had to do a quick claim deed just to put my name on it so I don't know if that would on the whole piece of land yeah yeah on the whole piece okay so your parents live on the land too
Yes. So you now own the property that they live on? Well, see, I'm not sure. I mean, the quick claim deed, I'm added on to it, but they're also still there. I mean, they still have their name on the land, and my name is added to it also. Okay. And I'm guessing this is generational land. No? Was it your grandpa's? No.
No, no. My dad bought it. Now his plans are, he wants to give each of his kids a portion of the land. It's split into five lots. He owns all five lots and they're all tied into the same. It's already platted and subdivided. Yes. Deed one of the lots to you then exclusively you without their name on it. Okay. Do not do this where your parents own the property, the dirt under your barn dominium. No. Or own a portion of the dirt.
No. So the quitclaim deed is probably either done poorly or wrong. You guys need to look at that because if they, they probably, I guess they put some percentage of an undivided interest or something into your name. But that means you now own a portion of all those lots that are your brothers and sisters. Right. That was dumb.
Okay. It's unclean. And when they do things that are unclean like that, because everybody's just going to get along, then they don't get along. Then you're completely screwed. So let me ask you what happens if you get up these tracks of land or how big five acres, you said two and a half, two and a half. Okay. So you get two and a half acres completely in your name. You build a barn to Minium on it. And three years later, you decide to move to Kansas city. Can you sell it?
You own it, but relationally, is everybody going to lose their freaking minds? Yeah, 100%. Yeah. 100%, I would not build on it then. I mean, it's where I grew up, and me and my wife are both hard sale. Let me just tell you what.
You're a hundred percent going to stay there. If it goes toxic, if it goes sideways, if your brother gets into cocaine, if your mother has dementia and shoot somebody, all kinds of crap, man, I've been doing this 35 years. Nothing works like you think it's going to work. When stuff happens, you've got to have some autonomy and you don't have any. It's as if you never left home and live in their basement.
This is really bad. I personally wouldn't do what you're doing, and I would advise you against it. Not because I think your parents are bad people. I don't. Or that you're bad people, or that you really don't think you're going to stay there. You really think you're going to stay there, and you really might. But the truth is, most people don't. The truth is, 40 years from now, the chances of you being on that piece of dirt is almost zero. That's the truth. People just don't. Life changes. Things come up. Different things occur in family situations. You don't want to be over there.
I don't know what's in your future that's positive or negative that would push you away from that dirt, but you have no ability to leave it with the deal you're doing. And that is just bad medicine. And if you're going to go forward, though, at least for God's sakes, get it in your name. Don't be building on something that's got your parents' name on the dirt. 100% of that lot is in you and your wife's name. At least you've got the legal option of turning the property over if you need to.
Even though relationally, you don't think you would ever want to. I get that you don't think that's going to happen, Dan. But what you don't get is you think you're doing six things that cause cancer. I'm a cancer doctor. I seen cancer for 35 years. You're doing all the stuff that causes cancer.
And you're going to have cancer. And I don't know how to stop you from doing it. So that's the problem. And so I have to come at this from the negative because it's what you and I see every day, George. Yeah. These are handcuffs made of dirt. So is there an alternative here, Dave, where he goes, all right, I'm going to buy land elsewhere. That is mine that I will build on. That's what I would do. That
That feels like the best alternative. You know, even if it's down the street. I mean, it's in the neighborhood. But my kids live, you know, in a 30-minute radius from us. I would be heartbroken if they moved to Kansas City. You know, I'd be heartbroken if they moved away with my grandkids. I don't want that. But I don't get to decide that. They get to decide that. And he's surrendering his autonomy. He's surrendering his ability to make a decision for his family unit no matter what happens.
It's like it's chiseled in concrete. And he might be pouring six figures into something that he can't get back out. He can't get it out. That's frightening. Because he... We want real estate to be an investment. Well, it's going to go up in value. But if you're unwilling to sell it under any circumstances because of the dirt handcuffs... The four siblings now that are upset about it. That's... The number of times I've gotten the call from Dusty, your wife, that says, my husband and I built on his dad's property and we can't sell it.
I've gotten that call 50 times. Easy. And it's never a good call. So you guys do what you want to do. I'm going to try to talk you out of it. I doubt I did, though. This is The Ramsey Show.
You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan. But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance? Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill. And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work. That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help. They work forever.
for you, not the insurance company. So they find you the right health insurance and they save you money. Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts. And whether you're 19 years old or 90, you can trust them to do two very important things. Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't. Health Trust Financial is
is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about affordable health insurance options. They could save you hundreds of dollars a month, so make sure you're not overpaying. Go to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com The $12 sale is here through August 31st. $12 books to help you raise money smart kids. Rachel Cruz and I did a book that was a number one bestseller.
Smart Money, Smart Kids, $12. $12 books to help you get out of debt and build wealth, like George's book, Breaking Free from Broke, $12. My number one bestseller.
Baby Steps Millionaires, the last one I did, $12. Dr. John Deloney will walk you through the six daily choices you need to make to build a more peaceful and joyful life, building a non-anxious life for $12. Ken Coleman will help you go from paycheck to purpose, number one bestseller for $12. Check it all out at RamseySolutions.com, the store. There's a big sale. Did we mention that? Dan's in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Dan. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Thanks, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?
All right, so I just graduated from undergraduate college debt-free. Woo! And I am planning on going to graduate school in clinical psychology, but I'm going to have to go into debt and take student loans to pay for the degree. Is this a bad decision? Yes. Okay, so what should I do instead? That's a good question.
You said you had to, as if someone was forcing you to. Why are you going to grad school for critical psychology? What's the goal? To be a practicing clinical psychologist in private practice. Okay, so you have to have a master's to do that. Right. Okay. And where did you get your undergrad? At the local public school, South Alabama. Okay. And do they offer a master's?
Not to my knowledge. They don't offer a master's. I know other programs near me offer a master's, but I think that the application deadline for that is too late. So would you recommend me taking a year off and applying to master's programs? Why did you, okay, you went through the undergrad and got a degree in psychology in undergrad and you paid cash for it.
That's right. And then why did you suddenly decide I have to go to a school I can't afford to do my grad work? Because you could have gone to a school you could afford, but you chose not to, and now these deadlines have passed you. Why? Right. Well, I assumed, I guess, that I needed to get a doctorate degree in clinical psychology to practice. You don't. You have to have a master's. Right. Master's will get you licensed in most states anyway.
There may be a few that require a doctorate now. I don't know. What's it going to cost you? Well, it's quite a bit. It's $35,000 a year. And you've researched all the programs, even online ones, and that's the best deal? No, that's not the best deal. You can get this degree for $20,000. That's the point. Have we done the research to see if we can find a more affordable option and then see what it would take to cash flow that?
Okay. That's what I would do. I've seen some programs that I thought were ridiculous. They were around like $70,000 or somewhat $50,000, and I didn't even consider those. Yeah, that's good. You did do a little shopping, but you can get this degree for half of what you're talking about. Okay. And nobody cares where you went to school, by the way. All they care is did you pass your boards and can you help them. Right. No one ever went to a marriage counselor and said, wait, wait. Let me check the frame on the wall. Where'd you go to school?
Nobody ever did that, ever. All they want to know is can Dan guide me with his psychological training through this rough spot in my life? I need a guide. Can he help me? That's really what they want to know. You want to be a healer. Good for you. Right. You're a good person. Yeah. And so if, I mean, you called to ask, I think number one, even let's pretend you had $50,000 cash in your bank account.
I would still tell you not to pay $35 for this. I'd still tell you to go get a better deal. Because there's something about this particular critical psychology path at this particular location that romanced you.
Or it was just a one option and that's now what I got to do because we didn't look for more options. So, no, I would not go in debt because here's the thing. You got to get out. It's a two-year process to finish your master's, get licensed, pass your boards, and then you've got to get out and actually start making money. And in most states, you're going to have to put some hours under your belt before you can get licensed. So it's going to be a while before you make any money to pay this, to get a return on investment into this degree.
And even then, you're going to have to choose carefully how you choose to practice psychology because you can do it. Psychology, not as bad as sociology, but they both are very tough. You can get into some very underpaid situations with those. And, okay, now I make, you know, $26,000 a year after spending all this money as a school counselor. No. No.
No. Okay. And then people come out with $200,000 and you know, you're not Dan, but people come out with $200,000 in, uh, student loans cause they did their graduate work at some school. They shouldn't have. And they end up in a school counselor role. This is just don't do that. I'm begging you use some common sense or use some wisdom, pay cash for it and pay, pay less for it because it's going to be a while before you monetize it.
And that might mean taking a year off and working your tail off and getting a few side jobs and saving up for it. It might, or it might mean going and sitting down in the, you know, so many schools, they actually need students.
So, oh, the deadline passed. Oh, kiss my butt. I'm going to go sit down with the guy who runs the administration office and go, hey, I got money. You want me in? And they're going, oh, look, an opening just occurred. Look at that. Look at that. We can squeeze in. Oh, that deadline thing. Oh, you know, I mean, come on. Yeah, seriously. It's not like they have a line around the block at most of these schools to get into schools.
graduate work on psych. So, um, sorry, it's not, you're not getting in law school or med school here. This hike. So yeah, seriously, I, I think you go poke around, try to try to stay on the track, but if you end up taking six months off or you end up taking a year off, okay, then go pile up a bunch of money and you're, you have a little bit of a war chest to go out this. Our one is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Irwin. How are you?
Hi, Dave and George. I'm way better than I deserve. Thanks for having me on. Oh, good. We're glad to have you, sir. What's up?
So I've got a question for you here. I've got around $200,000 left on my mortgage, a 3% interest rate. And I have been absolutely laser focused on getting that paid off. And so the strategy that I've taken is I opened a high interest savings account, which gets me about 4.125%. And rather than paying any extra money on my mortgage, I've been putting it in that account
And I've got around $120,000 saved up in there right now. Your high-yield savings account pays what? About 4.125%. And your mortgage interest rate is what? 3%. Okay.
So I had spoke with my financial advisor about that strategy, and I put it into ChatCPT, which seems to know everything. And both of them came back and said that that was a good strategy to put it in there. And then once I hit that $200,000, just pay it off in one lump sum because I'm actually making more money on that interest than I would be if I just paid it off slowly as I went. I just wanted to ask you guys if you thought that was a good idea or not.
You called the right place. I don't think it's a good idea. I'm going to disagree with AI and tell you that it's much wiser to pay off your mortgage. It's what I did, Erwin, personally. And we did our millionaire study. Not one said, well, the money I would have put toward the mortgage, I invested instead, and that's how I became wealthy. We found that wealthy people actually pay off their mortgages 10 years on average. And so I would absolutely pay it off, and I wouldn't wait until you had $200,000 to do it. So, dude, 1% on $120,000?
It's $1,200. We don't have a $1,200 problem. We have a $200,000 problem. You have fixed the $200,000 problem because you're a genius and you're able to live on less than you make and save money. Okay. So you're saying, because what I've been doing is taking my bonus checks and putting them right. I'm saying all of this gyration you're doing, fire your financial advisor and quit looking up crap on the internet to get advice for anything except whose birthday it is.
Oh, my gosh. No, no. Yeah. Pay cash as fast as you can, as hard as you can on this mortgage. You're doing all these double backflips. You look like one of these Olympic divers all for $1,200. And $1,200 in a spit against the measure of $200,000. Pay off the mortgage and start investing that payment you were making and then come back and tell us it wasn't a good move. Oh, wait, wait. The $1,200 is income. It's taxable. So it's not $1,200. It's $800. $800.
You did all of this for less than $1,000. AI ought to be ashamed of itself. But it's not that smart. This is The Ramsey Show.
I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills...
I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.
You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com.
George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Dane is with us. Hi, Dane. How are you? Hi, Dave and George. How are you? Better than we deserve, brother. Welcome. Where do you live? I live in Sacramento, Dave. Oh, beautiful. Love Sacramento. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid? Sure. So $216,765.
$1,000 and 21 cents. Excellent. And how long did this take? It took eight years and four months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? Sure. So it started about 80,000 and then up to 128,000. Cool. What do you do for a living? I'm in client relations sales for a local government association in California. Okay. Well, that will put you in Sacramento for sure. Yeah.
Okay. Cool. Very cool. And the $217,000, what kind of debt was this? It was my house, Dave. Yeah! A guy in California owns his house paid for. That is really weird. Wow.
Way to go, weirdo. I'm proud of you. Thank you. What's the house worth? Well, I actually had a few kind of life changes, so I actually sold it recently. So that was kind of part of the journey, selling the house. Ah, I got you. Okay. All right. Well, good for you, man. Congratulations. How does it feel to be free?
It feels amazing. It feels, it feels free. You know, you feel so relaxed and can do so many other things, obviously coming out here to Nashville to be a part of your show today. And obviously being able to be more generous to whether the church or just everyday life. And it's, it's, it,
It's great. So in the selling of the house, you buy another one then later? No, not right now. You will someday? I think so. All right. Very good. Just kind of got to get through this process. Good for you, brother. Well done, man. All right. What happened eight years ago that put you on this journey? What was the moment that woke you up? What's your story?
your why. Why did you do this and what motivated you? How did you get connected to us? Sure. Yeah, no, it was actually in September of 2015. I was on a work trip and was traveling around and the show was on the radio station that I was listening to and I hadn't heard of the show at all. And I thought
thought I was doing pretty well. I had paid off my credit card debt and student loan debt and just figured I was going to have a 30-year mortgage to manage for the next 30 years. And I think, David, the time you were yelling at someone to pay off their mortgage. And so that took how important that is. And I listened to it and I started thinking about it and I was like, wow, this would
I can do this too. And obviously for the rest of 2015, I kind of wasn't serious about it. And then in 2016, it was game on. Okay. Very cool. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You paid off your house. Boy, I mean, a few things. For me, the budget was key.
Certainly having that financial plan, telling your money where to go every month was important. Financial Peace University, my son's here as well and their mom, Kristen got me into an FBU class about five years ago. That was obviously key.
And so that was definitely want to thank her for that. And, you know, like a reason, right? A reason to change your family tree, right? And then a community of support was helpful as well. So I would listen to your guys' show and those times when I would kind of get down a little discouraged about the journey that I was on. And this is, you know, I've still got four or five years left and it would help. Wow.
That's impressive. And the kids got a front row seat. Were they even born when you started the journey? They were, yes. Wow. And was this part of legacy of just, I want my kids to grow up not knowing debt? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, just having them see to kind of go through that, the journey and the challenge and that they can be debt-free as well. And they were actually very involved. We built kind of a debt chain
at home and they would you know they would cut the links off of it when we pay off. That's a core memory right there. Absolutely yeah yeah it's and just you know one of the things I just wanted to say too is that we just I know back then you know I said 2015 was when I first heard the message and I'm sure you know Dave and Georgia was the you know 10,000th time you guys had said that but that day it reached me. Yeah. And changed my life. Yeah. So thank you so much to you
and the team for what you guys do. Well, in this day, your debt-free scream is reaching someone today. So it does go full circle. The ripple effect. It does go full circle. You're paying it forward by celebrating this so openly. Congratulations. Very, very well done. Powerful, Dane. Very powerful. Good stuff.
So the why is the boys, and they got to watch the whole thing happen, and they'll never have debt because they've seen how dad acts. Certainly so. Yeah, it kind of came from my mom here as well, and they gave me the foundation of hard work and sacrificing for your goals, my parents. So obviously we all get somewhere with someone else, and I try to do my part going forward. Yeah. Well, congratulations, brother. Very proud of you. All right, bring the boys up. Let's introduce them. What are their names and ages? Sure.
So this is Colin right here. He's nine. And this is Caden. He's 11. All right. Very cool. Very cool. Well, congratulations, you guys. You're heroes. So proud of you. So you say the key is the budget. And what else? Certainly the FPU, Financial Peace University. And I think, you know, like I said, having a reason. And the community. That was the other thing. That's important. Plug it into something that is telling you to do it and that is supporting you rather than tearing you down.
Because there's always some bozo in the background yelling not to do it, too. So you guys, you really worked your tail off and pulled this off. I'm so proud of y'all. Way to go, Hero. Thank you so much. Yeah, those young men have got a dad they can definitely look up to. That's pretty cool stuff. All right. Dane and Caden and Cohen. All right.
Ah, here we go, baby. $217,000 paid off. House and everything in California. Did this in eight years and four months, making $80,000 to $128,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Okay. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah!
That's how it's done. Mortgage-free in California. Those two things just don't go together. You don't hear that in a sentence very often. I thought it couldn't be done. It's impossible. Wow. The things you and George teach are impossible. Oh, wait. Until you do it. Oh, wait. Then there's Dane. Yeah. He kind of messes it up. Dane screwed it up. Yeah. That whole...
Well, no one does that. Well, see, you can't say that anymore. So we messed that up. I'm curious, Dave, doing this for 30 years now, like he said, you know, have things changed as you've been yelling at people to pay off their mortgage? I'm getting accused of yelling a lot in this segment. I've noticed I'm forceful with my opinions, but I usually don't yell. Well, not unless someone needs a little slapping around. That's rare these days. Okay. But are more and more people saying, I'm going to hang on to the mortgage because
Because of fear, because of the market. Have you seen a trend over 30 years when it comes to mortgage payoff? You know, debt payoff in general, there's always been somebody trying to find a shortcut. You know, I'm going to borrow money and instead of paying off my debt, I'm going to put it in a high yield savings or, you know, there's always some kind of angle. I'll get a second mortgage. Instead of just doing it, we human beings look for a scam. We look for an angle. We want an angle. And we, you know, just do it.
Stand around and talk about it. You know, you could have already had the garage swept while you were discussing how to sweep it. Sweep the dadgum garage. I mean, come on.
That sounds like my dad right there, right? I mean, you know, you've been talking about this and trying to decide whether you're going to get a blower or a broom or what kind of broom. Get up. Just get started sweeping. Just sweep. You know, I mean, everybody's got to try to find some thing where they figured out the universe. Well, the universe has already figured it out. God's figured it out. He told you borrow or slave to the lender. How long you won't be a slave? Stop it. You know, you got to get into it. And so that that's what Dane did. He leaned into it and he knocked it out.
There's no angle that, but it's human nature. So yeah, for 35 years, I've been hearing people looking for an angle, you know, there's a, how can I keep this debt? Uh,
And still be debt-free. My financial advisor told me it. We just took that call. My broke friend that I went to happy hour with, seven beers and two joints later, told me I should keep my mortgage. Well, of course he did. He's a moron. And then we did our millionaire study, and it turns out millionaires actually pay off their mortgage in 10.2 years on average. The baby steppers pay it off in seven years on average, and Dane is right there in the middle. Yeah. Eight years, four months. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect.
Imagine seven years from now, eight years from now, you could have no mortgage if you wanted to, if you so chose. Don't discuss how to sweep the garage. Just sweep the garage. Start sweeping. Extra payments. What are you talking about? Your dadgum theories. Don't overcomplicate it. Aim, aim, aim, aim. You don't need strategies. Shoot something! Gosh! See, he does yell. This is the Ramsey Show. We have it on tape.
This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.
Here's what I've learned. When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first. And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole. And I know that you have to do those same things too. So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments. And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.com.
BetterHelp is 100% online therapy staffed with licensed therapists. It's convenient, it's flexible, and it's suited to fit your schedule. And therapy can help you learn positive coping skills, how to set and practice boundaries, how to become the best version of yourself, and most importantly, how to find peace in all of this chaos. In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first. Never skip therapy day.
Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Delaunay today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Delaunay. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Karen is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Karen. How are you?
Hi, good. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well, I have some questions. Well, one question. I recently, my husband passed away. Oh, I'm sorry. When did he pass? He passed June 15th. Oh, just the other day. Okay. Wow. Yeah, just a minute ago. Oh, my. How long were you all married? 24 years. How old was he?
55 years old. Wow. What happened? He was, you know, it started with COVID, but what happened was he had a heart attack and he died in his sleep. I'm so sorry. How are you doing? Thank you so much. Um,
It's a roller coaster. I have my good days and I have my bad days. But I feel very grateful in so many ways because he did die in his sleep. And I kept telling him that he was in need of a doctor and I kept pushing and pushing and he wouldn't listen to me. And so I knew something was going to happen. I knew.
So I was expecting it. And so that's a weird thing to say. Wow. Okay. Yeah. So you're doing okay, though? I'm trying. I'm worried about my kids. Okay. How old are your kids? 23 and 17. Are they living at the house with you?
Yes, they live at the house, and we've been staying very close, but in two weeks I go back to work. My work has been very, very generous with my time, but in two weeks I go back to work, and so they're on their own a lot. Well, the 23-year-old needs to get to work, I guess. Well, she's in school full-time. Oh, okay, good. She's back in school? Yeah.
Yeah, well, not yet. She took the summer off. He died right when summer school was happening, and she just dropped out, which was okay. I understood. But my son kept going, and today's his last day. So we're going to take a little vacation. We're going to go away for vacation for a week. And then when I get back, I'm going right to work. Good for you. What do you make at work? How much money?
About $80,000. Okay. So how are you set up financially? Are you okay? Well, we had life insurance, and so I'm financially secure now. We were a mess. But as soon as the life insurance was in progress, I started listening to your show, and I took all the steps that you promote. Wow.
And so I paid off every bill we had, and we had a ton of bills. I mean, we had $80,000 worth of debt, and we don't own a home. We lost our home. And I had $40,000 worth of IRS bills. And all that's paid. It's all paid. How much life insurance did you get?
1.5 million. Okay, good. So the problem is I didn't pay off. I didn't know what to do about. I had leased a car and I didn't know what to do. You don't talk about leased cars very often, but you're not positive about them. And I know that they're not a good value. Yeah, I'm positive we don't do them, but you did it. It's okay. So you just call. Here's what you do. Just call. Who's the lease with?
Uh, BMW. Just call BMW and tell them you need the early buyout, which is early buyout, which is like the payoff. I want to pay the car off. I need the early buyout. I want my title. Okay. That's what I wanted to know. And it's like, it's like if you had a loan, you're obviously not going to pay the interest for the, all the years remaining. You're just going to pay the payoff on the principal balance, right? Yes. And that's what you're asking for. It's the same thing.
Okay. So that's the smartest thing is to early buy out and then keep the car. Yeah. Yeah. You don't, you don't, you don't hate the car, right? Oh, I love the car. It's so awesome. But I know that it's a bad investment and I thought you were going to tell me to keep it for the three years or I didn't know what you were going to say. Pay it off and keep it. You've got the money. You're okay. How much money will you have left over once all that's done?
1.4 something, something, something. Yeah. Where is that money kept right now? I put it in Vanguard and in my retirement account as much as I could at work. So it's invested. Yes. Okay. And Fidelity. Okay.
Okay. Not Fidelity. I think I opened a Chase account. I don't know. I spread it around a little bit because I was confused and I needed to get it FDIC insured. Sure. Well, I would recommend you get connected with a smart investor pro. You can find one at RamseySolutions.com. I want to make sure this money does grow for you and that it can help you, you know, replace that income and grows at a good rate for you. And we start talking about buying a house out of it at some point, not necessarily today, but...
At some point. In the meantime, yeah, just get the lease paid off and you'll be heading in the right direction. And Karen, anything you need, you holler at us. We'll help you any way we can, okay? It hasn't even been two months. Goodness gracious. She's on it. She's game on. Wow. She jumped right at it. I probably didn't have a choice on some of it. Joseph's in Dallas. Hey, Joseph, what's up? Hi, how are you guys doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I just had a question. How do I...
convince my wife to pay off her student loan and the rest of our debt and do it as efficiently as possible. What caused you to want to do it? Well, I just don't like debt, but we've ended up racking up. We chose to rack up more debt out of here. We have some credit card debt. Something changed and you decided to get intense and get out of debt. When was that?
Well, I've just never liked it. No, that's not true. You went into debt. You're ready to do something drastic. What happened the other day, two weeks ago, five months ago? Something happened and you went, I want to get out of debt. Maybe you start listening to this show. I don't know. What happened? I guess, yeah, I did start listening to your show. Like my high school, one of my high school teachers had mentioned you guys.
years ago and I was like okay like that's cool but I didn't have any debt then either so it was like I was just going through life so you waited to get some to go alright now I'll start listening to this show yeah pretty much like it only took us 10 months to rack up our debt that we have now and um how much debt do you have
I think about $41,000 a day. The reason George and I are asking you the same question of what got you fired up because something happened that you got new information that made you so excited that you were willing to sacrifice and get very intense and get out of debt. That was not there before.
And that's what happens with your wife. It's exactly the same thing. You're expect her to just wake up one morning and suddenly out of the blue feel exactly like you, when you didn't used to feel this way, but now something happened and you got new information. You thought, gosh, it'd be worth it to sacrifice. And when I look at this, when I step back and look at it, it scares the crap out of me. We went this far in debt in just 10 months.
We got to stop that. We got to turn the car around. We got to go back and get off the interstate the other direction. And we got to repent. We have to do a 180. And, you know, and that's what does it for her. It's not, honey, we got to do this because I'm smart and I figured it out. No, it's here's.
This is terrifying me that we went this far in. Let's look at this. And I get really not terrified. I get excited when I talk about getting out of it. Let's talk about how our life would look if we got out of it. What would we do if we didn't have any debt? How much wealth could we build? And where could we travel? And what kind of generosity could we do? And let's
dream with her into the future. Ask her what she would want to do if we were debt-free and give her a reason to be excited about it other than you just did some math. She needs her own catalyst to get this journey started. And then we need to show her that there's a new Joseph. You got to actually change some habits. It might be you selling some stuff, getting rid of an old subscription where she goes, oh my gosh, you really want to do this, don't you? And I think that's part of it. It's got to be more than just words. It's got to be action with that.
Absolutely. Financial Peace University is the best way. If you just wanted a silver bullet, Financial Peace gives you the language. Yeah, we'll do that. Helps you dream together. Give you the class to go through. You and your wife go through Financial Peace on us. And if you can get her to go to the class, I'll convince her. You won't have to. This is the Ramsey Show.
Before we get to the next caller, I got some good news for you. Even when this portion of today's show runs out of time, there's still plenty more for you to tune into. Just head on over to the Ramsey Network app to finish today's show for free right there on the home screen. And if you don't have the app, just search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play, or simply click the link in the show notes for an easy download. You never know what call is coming up next, so be sure and check out the Ramsey Network app.
Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work,
that they love and create actual amazing relationships. George Camel, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of The George Camel Show. He's my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Gina's in New York City. Hi, Gina. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good.
So about five years ago, we lost our house. We lost about a half a million dollars in a failed business. Prior to that, we were always really good with our finances. But since then, we've been renting and we don't have a savings. We don't have a retirement. We don't have anything. All we have is...
is a property that my father-in-law gifted us that's worth about $1.6 million, no mortgage, and we don't know how to move forward. Do we mortgage that and do something else with it? Do we continue renting? Our expenses really is just we cover what we make, what we spend. So we're just not sure what the best decision would be. We're kind of afraid to move. Mm-hmm.
I'm sorry. That's devastating. So really, during the last five years, since all this happened, you've really not made any progress? Right. Why? So we put two kids through state college. We didn't have them incur any debt. We covered their college. I have another son that's going to college next year.
My other son's in the Navy because he didn't go to college. We were paying for half his wedding, um, the reception only. Um, so it's just been like, and then everything's just seems to be getting more and more expensive. So what we're making maybe for there was a little left to be, um, I make 42,000 a year. My husband makes 115,000 a year. Well, um,
So the thing is you're not made any progress during the five years since the horrible event. So typically what happens is after there's a forest fire, things start to grow back. And nothing's growing back here because you're continuing to spend everything you make. You make $150,000. And so you can't continue to do what you're doing.
That's the answer to your question. You've got to, you know, you've got to get to a position that you say the thing we learn from the failed business and the lost home and our heart being broken and our emotions being gutted. The thing we learn is we don't borrow money. The thing we learn is, is that we're going to live on less than we make. And this is what Sharon and I went through.
I mean, not only we were 28, you're not 28, but, um, you know, it gutted us emotionally. We couldn't, you know, numb. We were, well, I walked around for a year blaming everybody else. I was a victim. And then I discovered that I was a victim of my own stupidity that I signed up for the trip. I got to take. And, uh, that was a harsh discovery.
And that began healing. I said, okay, I'm going to take responsibility. And the responsibility is I don't borrow money anymore. And the responsibility is I'm going to be on a budget. And the responsibility is we're going to be tithing at our church. And the responsibility is Sharon and I are going to be in agreement on every dollar that leaves this place before it leaves. And we're freaking hardcore about it. And we're going to live on less than we make. And if that means looking at a kid and saying no, well,
We're going to look at a kid and say no. If that means looking at a relative and saying no, or a friend, we're going to say no because I got one goal here. Me and Sharon are never going back to this mess again. And that was kind of the way we did it. It was a long time ago, but you can tell by the emotion in my voice, I remember it. So I know how you feel. You're kind of weak in the knees, but you guys have really got to look at what –
we've gone through an extreme thing and the way to recover from an extreme thing is extreme discipline. Does that make any sense? Yeah, I agree with that. And I don't think what you've done, I mean, paying for a kid's wedding is not evil. Paying for their college is not evil. You know, you haven't done anything that's evil here. That's not the point. But you just did it like it didn't matter and as if this other stuff hadn't happened.
And did it anyway and left you and your husband broke and still broken. You're still scared. You're still terrified as if this was as if this happened a month ago instead of five years ago. Right. And I want I want you guys. I want to see some emotional healing and financial healing for you and your husband. Your kids will be they'll make it there. They'll be all right. Lots of kids. Parents have gone broke and they turned out OK.
What shrapnel is left from this thing? Do you guys have any debt you're still trying to pay off? Minimal. We didn't really have debt. So we have like, you know, we have three cars, two are paid off. One I owe about $25,000 on. I have about $5,000 on an American Express and $8,000 on a different credit card with zero interest. But that's it. Can I tell you, Gina, the way you're talking, that's it. It's minimal. That freaks me out.
And I think you need that level of intensity to never go back to this spot again. Right. And so before we cover kids' college and pay for a wedding, we got to clean up our debt because you guys have nothing in savings, you told me. We got to put our own mask on first here. You're still spending more than $150,000. Right. You got to stop it.
So, and I understand, but I'm telling you that you can't keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect the different results. So the land, the 1.6 million, that's a curious thing off to the side of this story. He just handed you the keys to this?
Um, well, he owns, uh, my husband's first generation, so he, he owns a few properties and he gave one to each of his kids. That's the one that we got. It's a six family building. Um, we don't take anything from it. Why? Um,
Because it's rent stabilized, so it doesn't make a ton of money as it is. And we just let it kind of accumulate. My father-in-law is still alive, so obviously he still takes from it. Oh, he does? No, not obviously. He gave it to you. It's not obvious.
So you own it, but he gets the profits? Mostly, yes. We take about $1,200 a month from it, and that was included in the $150. So it's not really yours, though, emotionally, in the sense that if you wanted to sell it, that would cause a problem.
Well, he says we can if we want to take a loan out on it. Our problem is a loan. I don't want to take a loan. I said sell it. Right. Yeah. Sell it and buy you a house. I don't know that I would need to buy a house that cost that much. I don't want to cost that much. I just don't want to own this. Like, you call me up, you're completely broke.
broken and emotionally wounded. And over here to the side, you have a paid for $1.6 million property. You're making 10 grand a year from it. These two things are incongruent. It's incongruent to your story. But it makes me think that you don't really have the relational option to sell it. I don't think your father-in-law is going to go along with you selling it. He's going to have a fit.
And then go buy you a $600,000 house and put some money in some mutual funds or buy another piece of real estate that you own that actually makes a good rate of return. Because this thing sucks on the rate of return. So here's a quick math refresher. There are only 24 hours in a day, so your business needs to streamline tasks that are time suckers and focus on activities that make money. So to reduce headaches as they scale, smart businesses use NetSuite by Oracle.
the number one cloud financial system. NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform. So join the more than 37,000 smart businesses like Ramsey Solutions.
that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite. And right now, you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Hey, folks, there's a lot of half-baked investing advice out there, but here's what you can do to get more confident about this stuff.
Check out the SmartVestor program. SmartVestor connects you with local financial advisors who have the heart of a teacher. They'll help you level up your knowledge and build a retirement plan based on your goals, not theirs. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor to get connected and get more confident about your plan. That's RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.
SmartVestor. Ramsey Solutions is a paid, non-client promoter of participating pros. Learn more at RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor.
George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. If private student loan debt is taking away from your peace of mind, you don't see any way out. Well, you need WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low return.
fixed rate loan that's customized to you, built for you. Go to Yrefy.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Michael in Ohio.
How do you reconcile paying off debt prior to funding college? We started on our journey to freedom from debt last year, and our son will be attending college within the next two years. My focus has been earmarking cash specifically for his college tuition and expenses, with early debt payoff as a secondary priority based on the timeframe of when that cash is needed. What's your advice to parents with a more imminent timeline to college?
Imminent. So intense. Okay, so we're talking within the next two years, son is attending college. They've got some consumer debt. They're trying to help pay for junior's college. What say you, Dave? Why this order? Because baby step two is pay off your consumer debt. Baby step five is safer kids college. Well, this is not really saving for kids college. This is almost budgeting.
Because this is a current budget line item. Because it's here. Cash flowing. And so what it's doing is it's whatever we're paying out of our pocket for the kids' college, because it's upon us. It's imminent, to use his word. Because of that, it's a budget item. It's not really a baby step.
And so what that does then by mathematical necessity is it reduces the amount of money you put towards your debt because you have this expense line in your budget. It's going to slow down your debt payoff. But that's not because college is more important. It's because college is on top of you. Now, having said all of that, Michael in Ohio, junior is going to community college for the first two years.
because he's got a mom and dad that are broke. He's not going to Harvard. Hello? The number one reason people go into student loan debt is not to get an education. It's because they chose to go to a college they couldn't afford. The University of Tennessee at Knoxville, an in-state school for a Tennessee resident, is right now $14,000. Vanderbilt here in Nashville is
is $75,000. If you have extra money and you want your child to go to Vanderbilt, that's fine. But you do not go in student loan debt to go to Vanderbilt versus go to the University of Tennessee. And you can't convince me it's better because I went to the University of Tennessee and people that went to Vanderbilt worked for me. Ouch. Sick burn. So there's that. So college selection is what's important.
It's the number one thing because people, they, here's what's, here's the irony of it. We talked about this in Borrowed Future in the documentary. The irony is, is that people are stupid about education. That's an irony. We're dumb about education, if you think about it. We don't shop for the price. So what we want is we want Junior to go to college. We want him to get an education. We want him to get a degree in something that's useful, not left-handed puppetry or German polka history. You'll end up a barista.
Okay, so and $200,000 in debt and you got it from a name brand college that all your friends think is fancy. So you're a fancy barista. Hello, two nose rings. So there we go. And I want to know what juniors buy in it is in this college process. Hello, that's number two, isn't it? Feels entitled to it. I'm thinking juniors signing up for scholarships as hard as old dad is working here to save money because it's imminent. Love that word.
I think Junior needs to realize it's imminent, and he needs to be doing three essays a night registering for free money called scholarships. Oh, and Junior needs to plan to work while he's in school. It's not child abuse. It's really not. Little Snowflake will make it. They'll be okay. Well, and the data shows 15 to 20 hours a week, part-time job, you have a higher GPA than those who don't work. So he'll be okay. He'll actually be smarter. He'll actually be smarter. He'll develop this interesting thing called work ethic while he's there.
I want him to be able to study and play beer pong. That's what you're saying, actually. You don't realize it if you've ever seen it. It's a well-rounded education, Dave. Yes, it's rounded, a little round white ball. Yeah, I got you, George. I saw what you did there. Thank you. And so, yeah, we don't get a degree in beer pong. We're going to work. Oh, by the way.
It's interesting. When I'm speaking to adult audiences, 5,000 people in the audience, and I say, if you went to college, how many of you went to college? And people raise their hands like most of the audience, right? How many of you worked while you were in college? Almost everybody in the room raised their hand. The number of people that went to college and worked zero hours while they were in college is almost zero. So junior's going to be working. Junior's going to be getting scholarships. We're going to choose a college that is inexpensive and in the area because we don't have any money.
and he's going to graduate and go be successful because he understands that the reason for an education is it's not a magic bullet that makes you successful. It puts tools in the belt of someone that knows how to work hard, be honest, apply themselves in the marketplace, and those tools help you to be successful. But no one ever became successful because of their degree. They became successful because of hard work, moxie, confidence, being competent in the marketplace, and
and kicking butt and taking names. That's how you become successful. I had a guy working here one time. He came to my office, and he said, you know, he had more degrees than a thermometer. And he said, you know, people that have as many degrees as I have, when they work for big companies, they make a lot more than I make here. And I said, yeah, but you work for a small business. He said, yeah, I know. I said, well, that's, you know, the rules of small business are different. Your raise is effective when you are. I couldn't care less about your dadgum degrees. All I care is can you do something with them.
that brings money into this place, and I'll share some with you. Hello, that's how this works. So make yourself of value, boys and girls. That is what makes you valuable. It is not the fact that you went to college somewhere, and therefore the society owes you an income because you have a degree. Society doesn't know you squat, and you will find that out as soon as you walk out there because it will spit in your face. And then you'll be going, I sure hope Biden will help me.
He's asleep in the basement. You're not going to get any help. So not coming, not coming boys and girls. So that's the, that's the rant there, Michael, you're doing a good thing. Put it in the budget. I'm not disagreeing with you, but then don't tell me, Oh, well, my son told me he's going to this school. So that's the thing. 17 year old didn't tell me anything at my house. I told them stuff, but they didn't tell me stuff.
I solicited their input and then told them what we were going to do. You're paying for it. There's rules. And you've said, Dave, here's the rules. You have to graduate in four years with this four-year degree. And it's interesting. I told my kids, I said, here's the syllabus. That's the list of classes you take in order to graduate. And so if you take all of these classes and you pass them all, you know what they give you? A degree.
It's magical. And you know, if you take all these classes and you pass them all in four years, you know what you get? A degree. If you do it in three years, you know what you get? The exact same degree. You know what you do if you do it in eight years? A degree. The exact same degree. So take the freaking classes. Show up. What are you doing? I mean, we're laying out on top of the dorm getting a suntan. It's spring. You're killing me. And you missed the class that it took to graduate? No.
Well, the average student. That's right. The average anything you don't want to be. You don't want to be average. We're not signing up for average. Golly. 57% of the people that start college do not graduate. That's scary. That means 43%. Nationally, we have a graduation rate of 43%. If you've got a 57% do graduate. I got that backwards. A 43% dropout rate.
If you got a 57 on a test at any one of those colleges, they would call it an F. But they walk around acting like they did something, graduating 57% of the people. That means 43% of you leave without the degree and with the student loan. Don't do this. It was a lie. You were sold a lie. That's why they brag about acceptance rate, Dave, not the graduation rate. Mm-hmm. Pay cash. They ought to brag about the job rate after we left the school and got the degree. That's the thing you ought to be bragging about. This is the Ramsey Show.
Hey guys, are you ready for the secret to help you reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about? It's simple. You got to get on a budget. With our budgeting app, EveryDollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality. And we'll be with you every step of the way from your first budget to that retirement home on the beach. Download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember to
Today, download every dollar for free on the App Store or Google Play today. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Nine years ago, we got word that a friend of a friend, a young church planter, at that time was 30 years old,
that he had a small congregation that had kicked off and was booming, but had just kind of gotten the whole thing going up in Indiana. And we got word that his pregnant wife had been murdered in their home.
reached out, got in touch, and began a friendship over the years. And now Davey Blackburn is with us today. He's continued to be a friend and has a brand new book out called Nothing is Wasted, A True Story of Hope, Forgiveness, and Finding Purpose in Pain. Welcome back, my friend. Yeah, thank you, Dave. This is an honor. Thank you, George. Absolutely. Nine years later, this ends up as a book. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.
That's got to be simultaneously effective.
fulfilling to talk through the ministry and what has happened out of this tragedy, this disaster, and also, God, just draining. I mean, I'm talking about this all the time, even though it's nine years ago. Yeah, it is, but it's also very cathartic, especially to see how many people are healing because of it. Every time we go and share the message, you find out that pain's the common denominator of life. Whether they've gone through this degree of pain, everyone has dealt with pain.
It's kind of the thing that equalizes the playing field for us as humans. I skirted over it, but take a second and tell the thumbnail version of the story. You're 30 years old. Your wife's pregnant. You got a little baby. You went to the gym, if I remember. Yeah, I left for the gym on a Tuesday morning. Three men were on a random crime spree in Indianapolis, broke into the home three doors down from me, saw me leave for the gym that morning, and decided to break into our home.
And Amanda got caught up in that. We had a 15 month old at the time and she was 13 weeks pregnant with our second. And she was shot three times. And when I came home, I found her and she was still breathing very laboriously, but unconscious. And when we got her to the hospital, the doctors revealed to me that she had three bullet wounds. That prognosis was very grim.
And how long did she live after that? About 24 hours later, she was pronounced officially deceased. Okay. Yeah. And the toddler was in the house. Yeah. He was in his crib the entire time, untouched, unharmed. So our world turned upside down. Yeah. You went from a picture perfect little life, so to speak, to the opposite end of the spectrum in one morning at the gym. Right. Right. Right.
So what was the next step out of all the grief? When did you kind of go, hey, I need to share this message and nothing is wasted ministries began? Yeah, well, there was a long process, right? You know, now looking back on it, my counselor told me we want God to heal us in poof, but he normally heals us in process.
And so I had to go through a long healing journey, but being a pastor, I was immediately beginning to share the story. And unfortunately, because our story was such a national media story, I was also thrust in front of a couple of national television media outlets. And so I started sharing that story. Now, looking back on it, it was cathartic and helpful to begin to share that story because that's part of your healing to externalize the things that have gone on in your life and to be able to
find where God is in the, in that story. But I had, I really had no choice. I had to begin sharing that with my congregation. And as I did, I found that people with their own pain stepped forward and they were finding healing in the midst of whatever they were going through too. It's powerful.
I don't care who you are or where you studied or how you grew up. You're 30 years old. Your wife gets shot three times and they leave the baby in the crib. That's got to change your relationship with God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It, uh, gotta be a little anger.
There was a lot of anger. There was a lot of rage. There was a lot of confusion because my, my idea as a believer was as long as I'm following after God and I'm in the middle of his will, then everything's going to go well for me. You know, I'll be healthy, wealthy, and wise. Right. But then you find out, well, Benjamin Franklin's the one that said that scripture doesn't say that. Right. And so then you look into scripture and you go, wow, actually the people who follow Jesus, the closest, they had a lot of very tragic endings to their life. And
And so what it began to do is reorient for me who God really is, that his promises are actually a lot sweeter than the real shallow promises that I was holding on to. And that in the midst of difficulty, trauma, tragedy in our life, he is walking with us.
And so I found that, you know, Elizabeth Elliot says there'll be situations that we go through that there's no explanation for why it happened, but God brings us something even greater and that's incarnation. He's walking with us.
And so in the midst of wrestling with God, the really deep, dark, despairing questions that I had to bring to God, he really showed up in profound ways that made it undeniable that he's not just real, but he also cares. He's a loving father and he wants to journey this valley with me. I seem to remember, and I may be
I may be wrong. You can correct me that the phrase nothing wasted came pretty quick in the story that nothing is wasted. Talk about where that came from because that's the title of the book. Yeah. Well, while we were in the hospital, we were waiting on test results to come back. And I put on Pandora radio station at the foot of Amanda's bed.
Elevation worship. I knew she would want to listen to Elevation worship if she could hear anything. And Pandora is randomized. You don't get to choose what comes up, right? But the first song that came up was the song, Nothing is Wasted. And that was the first moment where we felt, I was sitting there with her sister and we looked at each other. No words were necessary. We knew that God was stepping into that moment. And he was bringing what scripture calls a peace that passes all understanding. And this is what we felt like he said. He said,
this is not going to end the way that you want it to but i promise you i'm not going to waste this and then later that week as we were preparing for her funeral celebration of life service
we, it reminded us of what she was doing as a business endeavor. She was refinishing furniture. She was going to all these antique shows all over Indianapolis. And she had asked me to go pick up furniture. Like I was American pickers off the side of the road, you know, that people had thrown out. And I remember looking at her the first time I did this and going, what are you going to do with this dresser? This is garbage. Nobody is going to buy this. And she said, Davey, trust me, give me a little time. And I'm going to turn this into something beautiful.
And she would over and over and over. And that week after she passed away, I felt like the Holy Spirit said, Davey, trust me, give me a little time and I'm going to turn this into something beautiful. And that's the cover of the book is that's the color furniture being finished. We actually got to, as a team creatively direct that. And, uh, that's her sister that is modeling for that. And, uh, and, and refinishing that furniture. Yeah. Wow. Very cool. Um,
So you eventually were able to forgive the guys, the men that did the murder. Yeah. They were convicted finally. They were convicted seven years later. It took seven years for it to go to trial. And, you know, I came out originally saying I've chosen to forgive because I was a pastor. I'd preached messages on forgiveness. I knew the right thing to do and the right thing to say. But now I was confronted with this for the first time in this kind of a gravity situation.
And so I knew that forgiveness was a decision, but I didn't feel like forgiving. And a couple of things helped me on that journey. You know, the first thing that really helped me on that journey is realizing that unforgiveness was going to destroy me and it was going to destroy the people that I love. You know, it's like,
It's like a cancer that just rocks. Your toddler will pick up on it every time you walk in the room. If you don't let God transform your pain, you'll transfer it onto other people. There's a line. And so I didn't want that to happen. So forgiveness was more for me releasing that bitterness and,
is, you know, and trusting God that he's the better Avenger, that he's going to, he's going to ultimately make this right. No matter what happens here on earth, he's the one that settles accounts. And, um, and then I also remembered the way that I heard the gospel was a very unconventional way. I grew up in Birmingham, Alabama, Gardendale first Baptist. I went to this Easter play there and the pastor comes out and he said, Jesus was murdered for my sin and for your sin.
So at eight years old, that's how I heard the gospel. Jesus was murdered for my sin and for your sin. Then at 30 years old, my wife is murdered. Well, in that moment at that Easter play, the scene starts back up and Jesus on the cross says, Father, forgive them for they don't know what they're doing. And God drew me back to that moment and said, hey, are you willing to be a conduit of forgiveness the same way that Jesus offered forgiveness to you? Wow. It's powerful.
The book is Nothing is Wasted by our friend Davey Blackburn, a true story of hope, forgiveness, and finding purpose in pain. He's got a wonderful ministry helping people that have been through all kinds of trauma that's in 200 churches across America. Be sure and check all of that out. You can find him at Davey Blackburn and learn all you need to know. Nothing is wasted because it's not. Love you, my friend. Yeah, thanks, Dave. Proud of you for telling this story. Thank you, guys. This is The Ramsey Show.
Listen, the housing market is crazy. And if you've been on the internet, here's the sentiment. Affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life. Right? Wrong. George Camel here. Listen,
Listen, finding a home you love within your budget is possible, and I'm excited to help you get there with our brand new course, How to Buy a Home You Can Actually Afford. From saving a down payment that fits your budget to making an offer that sellers can't resist, we'll cover it all. So if you're ready to seal the deal on the right home for you, take the course at ramsaysolutions.com slash course. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash course. George Camel, Ramsey personality is my co-host. He also is my co-cruiser.
He and the other Ramsey personalities and my wife, Sharon, will be spending seven days on the high seas with you if you get one of the last few remaining cabins. We're going to be on an almost brand-new Holland America high-end, very nice ship, and we will be going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. No one will be on the ship except Ramsey people, so you're stuck with other people trying to get out of debt.
Boy, can you imagine bringing someone that did not like us onto that cruise and sticking them on there for seven days? That would be hell for them. That's a good revenge plot right there. Because we've got events and speaking. We will be the only entertainment on there. Well, and the people we're bringing with us, which includes- Free cruise. I'm buying. And they show up, and they go, oh my gosh. See what you did. Yeah. Stephen Curtis Chapman will be with us, a Dove Award winner, multi-
Grammy Award winner. Stephen, I was with him the other night, and he told a story. He got inducted into the Grand Ole Opry the other day, one of the first Christian artists to ever get inducted. He was very emotional about that. Don't blame him a bit. That's quite an honor. He'll be with us. Dina Carter, country music star, will be with us. Remember Strawberry Wine? She'll be with us.
And a bunch of other folks, including Manit Chauhan from the Food Channel will be doing a little food demonstration. We'll all be doing different speaking. Deloney, he'll be helping your mental health on the high seas and so forth. So I think Coleman's going to help you with seasickness, actually. Is that his specialty now? That's his specialty. No, I'm kidding. Handing out Dramamine. There we go. That's good. He's the Dramamine guy. Yeah, I'm looking at the lineup. It's just amazing how many friends we get to bring on board.
Yeah. Magicians, comedians, songwriters. I don't know why there's any seats left for anybody else with all the people we're bringing. That's true. We're bringing a crew. Yeah, it's a crew. So everybody wanted to help on this. It's kind of amazing. So there we go. All right. The Live Like No One Else Cruise, because if you're not on Baby Step 4 or beyond, you shouldn't come. We tell people not to be going on vacation and all that kind of stuff while you're in debt. And we're not hypocrites. You shouldn't even buy our cruise. So we want you to come and celebrate, though. If you've gotten 4 and beyond, it's a good way to do it. There's a few...
cabins left and you know what's left after that george what's that fomo oh catch the next one if it ever happens i wouldn't count on it ramsey solutions.com slash cruise yep we're doing it and uh fun on the high seas jacob is in the spokane washington jacob what's up in your world
Hey, not much. How's it going over there? Better than I deserve, man. How can we help? Good. Hey, just want to say I love you guys, and I've been listening to you since 2007 when my teacher showed us your program, so now he's my financial advisor. Wow. Back in high school. Yeah. You went through the high school curriculum. Cool. Almost 20 years ago. Cool. How can we help? Yeah.
Um, so I just finalized the divorce and I owe her $150,000, which is her half of the equity of the house. And I have 70,000 saved up and it looks like a HELOC might be the only way I can go because I owe her the rest of the money.
by the end of August, basically. So I know I'm a little bit behind, but we had kind of made plans to make payments up until the end of the divorce. So she changed it over and said that she wanted to buy a house. So, yeah, I was just wondering if there's any other options other than HELOC. Okay, what's the balance on the first mortgage? $110,000. What's the value of the home? About $430,000, $440,000. What's the interest rate on the first? $2.25,000.
Okay. So you would borrow 80 on a HELOC, and you make what? $130. Okay. All right, so I don't tell people to borrow money, but you're already in debt. You're in debt to your ex-wife, and we're going to change that to another kind of debt called a HELOC. And so you're not borrowing money. You're changing the money. You're changing the type of debt. You follow me? Yep. And so, yeah, that's what I would do. The only other thing I can think of, Jacob, is why are you keeping the house?
It's in a great school district for my kids. Are you keeping the kids? I love the house. We're doing 50-50, but yeah, I want to keep them in the school district and just want to keep them from having to move back and forth. One's four and a half and one is like five months. Neither one of them care. You're the only one that cares. Well, I also don't think I can sell a house and get the money in time. Is the divorce final? Yes. Okay.
It's finalized, and then I just made sure that I could get the loan. And then as I'm going through it, I'm like, I just decided to call you guys and just see if there's any other options that I could look into. You're under a time crunch. But here's what I would do. I wouldn't just go, well, I'm just going to stay in the house forever. What you could do is do the HELOC, then list the house. When it sells, you immediately pay off the HELOC and take whatever's left as your new down payment. Yeah. Yeah.
Here's the thing. You could keep the house if you want, but most of the time in 30 years of financial counseling with folks that they're in this situation, they keep the house for all the wrong reasons. And when you tell me you're keeping a house for a four-year-old and a five-month-old, that's the wrong reason because they don't care. They truly don't care.
You're just being emotional in the middle of this horrible catastrophe called a divorce. And I don't blame you for that because your heart's broken and you want to try to be a good dad and all that kind of stuff. But you just want to, you know, I'm not sure keeping the house is a smart thing to do, but if you want to get a HELOC just to get her off your back, that's fine. Um, but honestly, where you are five years from now should be a completely different world than where you are today.
And it probably is going to involve a different house because your next wife probably doesn't want to live in the house where your ex or her ex, your ex-wife used to live in the same bedroom.
So just doubt it. I just doubt it. That's just humans. Been dealing with them a long time. It helps to move on in that way to get rid of the physical place. You had a 12-year-old and a 14-year-old, and they had friends that were deep, and you've been there for 15 years and a lot of ties in the community. That's fine. But a five-month-old does not have any feelings except food and wet diapers. These are the feelings they have.
And, you know, we've got babies and grandbabies in the family right now, and they need two things, a dry butt and a full belly. And that's pretty much what they need. Most humans, that's about all they need. Yeah. That's it. Most adults, that's a good day. But, I mean, honestly, I'm picking on you, Jacob. You're going through a hard time. But it's okay to sell this house.
It doesn't make you a bad dad. And I'm challenging the decision-making paradigm you're using to make the decision. But it's okay to take out a HELOC, and it's okay to keep the house, and it's okay to work it through with the numbers you've got. So that's what you wanted to know. And you always get more than you want to know when you call here. That's how it works, folks. Because I'm really here to help you, not just help you do what you want to do.
There's a difference. And it's free. So you gave them more than they even paid for on top of that. That's impressive. You got a lot for that price.
Well, all of you listening to the show on the YouTube or the podcast, the show's about to end. The last 40 minutes of the show is now on the Ramsey Network app. The Ramsey Network app is completely free. It does not cost you a dime. You can listen to the whole show or watch the whole show on the Ramsey Network app.
But the last 40 minutes of the show as of this week, we are moving over to the Ramsey Network app for a lot of different reasons. But change is about the only thing you can count on around technology. And so it's changing. Those of you that listen on radio, on talk radio, you're going to keep getting exactly whatever your city's been getting.
Not changing a thing there. So we continue to do the show. But again, if you want the last 40 minutes of the show, the thing to do is go to the App Store or Google Play, download the Ramsey Network app. There's a lot of cool stuff there, including you can email us and we'll be answering some questions from the app. You can search all of the calls. We've got them logged back for several years and we built an algorithm in there. And so you can search a call by a certain subject.
find three or four times we've answered on that subject and listen to it. Like maybe should I get a HELOC when I'm getting a divorce that could come up, you know, it's like it's come up before I promised. So, um, you're going to get the same little speech. And so, uh,
you can get stuff answered and you don't have to wait through, you know, sit through five hours worth of listening just to get the answer you're looking for. But the whole thing is there. All, uh, all the segments are there every day on the Ramsey network app, including the last segment that begins in just a few moments. And, uh, uh, again, if you're on the Ramsey network app, but the, uh, podcast world and the YouTube world, uh, the show is ending for you now. And, uh,
We really appreciate you being with us. I was so glued into the app, I didn't pay attention, Dave. I just searched horse. Don't recommend searching horse in the Ramsey Network app. Did you come up? Find out for yourself. Yeah. I'm right there, Dave. Thanks, team. Thanks for putting that in there. Go check it out. Ramsey Network app in the App Store. Google Play. George. Mistake. Unbelievable. Big mistake. This is The Ramsey Show.
You're still here? What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.