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Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes stories with Unpacking the Toolbox podcast.
Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.
Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life.
I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello everybody and welcome back to the psychology of your 20s, the podcast where we talk through some of the big life changes and transitions of our 20s and what they mean for our psychology.
Hello everybody, welcome back to the show, welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners, wherever you are in the world, it is so great to have you here. Back for another episode as we of course break down the psychology of our 20s. Okay, have you ever had that feeling, that sensation, that panic, that everybody is further ahead in their lives than you are? They are more successful, they are more sure of themselves, they are more confident,
They are further along when it comes to their relationships, their finances, knowing what they want to do with their lives. This feeling of being behind is a really common one during this decade, during our 20s. It is the norm, not the exception. But I think despite that, it's also incredibly stressful.
and at times debilitating when we A, don't have open conversations about it. There isn't an acknowledgement of how many of us are feeling stuck in our lives. And B, we constantly compare ourselves to the people who do have it all, feeling like everyone else is finding this whole life thing very easy whilst we're struggling. So I want to talk about it today. I want to talk about why it is that we find ourselves in this constant struggle.
spiral, this constant self-doubt kind of cycle. No matter how much we do have, how much we have achieved, I think despite knowing that life is a journey, not a race, we still feel behind. But I think the real question is,
Behind what? What is this invisible standard that we are all falling short of? What exactly are we comparing ourselves to and why does the success of other people and the accomplishments of other people matter?
sit so heavy on our minds and diminish our own sense of agency and our own progress. Well, that's really like the core of this discussion. This is such a common phenomena, feeling behind in your 20s. And it's kind of ironic because if it is so common, how come we all
experience it who are these like people who are not feeling behind why is it that they are seen as what is normal why is it the people who are ticking everything off their bucket list achieving all the necessary milestones why are they the standard I also want to share a
Some of your experiences, the listeners, a lot of you have kindly written in to me on Instagram and said that you feel similar and have kind of articulated that.
why you're struggling. We have stories of being 30 and single, never having been in a relationship, another person who started their career again in their late 20s, people struggling with debt and decision making and job choices and not feeling like you can see a way forward. And of course, we're going to discuss why we feel that way, the psychology behind it and what we can do about it, how we can kind of just
You know, to be frank, stop feeling so shit about our own lives and our own progress. How can we stop viewing our 20s as a race or a competition to get to this like imaginary finish line and just enjoy the personal journey? Enjoy the scenic route. Enjoy what we want to get out of this decade.
So there is obviously a lot to discuss alongside your very generous and vulnerable personal anecdotes. And my hope is that if you get one thing out of this episode today, it is that absolutely everybody is feeling behind or feeling lost or feeling stuck in some capacity. Even the people that you look to and compare yourself to who seem so much further ahead than us.
they genuinely are feeling this as well. Because I think that it isn't about what you do have. It isn't about what you have achieved. It's about our mindset and our mindset towards competition, towards success, towards uncertainty. So we have a lot to discuss. I'm going to stop rambling. Without further ado, let's get into feeling behind in our 20s.
We have a lot of opportunities to feel behind in our 20s because we have a lot of opportunities not just for social comparison, but also for self-doubt.
I think for the first two decades of our lives, for the first 18 years at least, all of us are very much in step with each other. You know, we're kind of all existing on an identical path. Everybody who is our own age is doing the same things. We're going to school. We're trying to hit the same milestones of graduating. We're at the same classes. We have the same life problems. We are all working towards a common goal.
Everything feels very much in line. There is limited opportunities for comparison when it comes to life progress. You know, you might be comparing yourself based on like looks or who's had their first kiss or, you know, silly things like that. But in terms of like where you're at in your life and the progress that you're making to
towards your goals if you even have any when you're that young. That is all kind of very, very similar. And then we enter our 20s and suddenly it all splinters. Our life paths become very, very different, very unique. Our
And that only is exacerbated the further along we get into our 20s and into this decade. We're kind of no longer bustling alongside each other through mandatory schooling. We suddenly have freedom to choose and choose differently. And there are a lot of nuances in this. You know, one person wants to take a gap year. One person continues to work their
Their high school job or their uni job to save up. Another person speeds through their like four-year degree in three years and is like doing their master's by 23. Somebody is going straight into a high-paying job after college. Somebody is having children, right? It's like everybody is suddenly living in a different timeline compared to the common timeline that we used to have. And I think that it's at that point when everything splinters that it feels like a race of
suddenly begins you know it feels like we didn't realize we were at the starting line we didn't realize that suddenly it was going to be a competition but implicitly it feels that way it's kind of like the race to become real adults and then in many ways I think speaking to my friends it feels like it's this race to enter our 30s or even like our mid-30s with a partner we're
With a successful and fulfilling career. With a really cushy savings account. With a bunch of friends. And also with enough fun experiences to kind of prove that although we got here, we still enjoyed ourselves and enjoyed our lives along the way. And we become a lot more aware of the people who are doing those things and the people who are not. Which might be us. The people who are falling short.
I think the core reason we feel behind is obviously social comparison. Without the visibility of others and their life paths, we wouldn't have any reason to think that what we're doing is wrong. We wouldn't have anybody to be behind because we would only be thinking about ourselves. We would only be conscious of our own progress and what felt good for us. But
But of course, we know that comparison is a very like human disease. It's not even a disease, a human syndrome, a human trait. And sometimes it's just not possible to not have that kind of going on in the back of your mind as such a social tribal species. What's really fascinating to me, if not ironic, is when I asked all of you people, my beautiful listeners, whether you feel behind as someone in your 20s,
80% of you out of almost 5,000 votes, probably more because I checked that only after it'd been up for like, I don't know, 14 hours. But 80% of you at 5,000 votes, so a significant sample size there, said yes, you are right.
feeling behind. There is something in your life that you're not satisfied with, that you feel you should be further ahead or further along in regards to. That's compared to 20% of you who I assume feel really comfortable with where you're at. Maybe you're secure, you're working on yourself, setting your own pace. You could also just be doing exceptionally well, which congratulations. But what I find fascinating about this is that feeling lost, feeling stuck, feeling unaccomplished
Feeling behind is the norm.
It is not only the norm, it is the majority. It is the huge majority, 80%, you know, and I just think that it comes down to a lot of reasons, but because this generation is so much more competitive, but also yet again available for comparison, right? Particularly through social media and LinkedIn and publicly available information, it's very easy to focus on everybody who has more than you and not the people who are just like you.
The people who are doing really, really well for themselves, that 20%, maybe even that 10%, that 5%, they stand out. And so our attention immediately goes to them compared to the people who are doing life just like us in the same lane. That's not an interesting story. That's not going to capture our attention because we already know that narrative. We already know what that life looks like compared to the life of somebody that we want.
We also can't ignore this implicit blueprint that society sets for our life that even if we don't believe in, we are still influenced by.
So when we think about like society's blueprint for us, there is kind of this unspoken timeline of events. You graduate, maybe you go on and get your degree or some qualification. You find your dream career. You get your job in that field. You make enough money to live independently. You find the love of your life. You get promoted. You buy a house. You get married. You have children, retirement, death.
That's it. That's what the blueprint tells us. And it's a very restrictive idea of what constitutes a happy life. And it's also a very incomplete narrative, an incomplete blueprint, because it doesn't include the stories of people who, you know, completely uproot their lives at 30 or 50. The people who never get married or who never have kids. The people who take a few years off between graduation and foreclosure.
full-time work to explore. The people who never find their dream job, the people who, you know, these kind of milestones just aren't going to happen in the same way for them.
Those stories, the ones that I've just kind of given a few examples of, they're not the ones we hear about. And so we don't think of them or include them in our own interpretation of how our lives should be going, how our lives should be progressing. When it comes to feeling behind, I believe that there are three major areas where we experience this the most. That is our careers, our relationships and our finances.
Not only are these three of the most formative elements of our 20s, the things that I think we spend a lot of time worrying about, but in some ways they're also quite visible, right? We don't feel behind in terms of our health. We don't feel behind in terms of aging. We don't feel behind in terms of our personal development. We feel behind based on things that we think that other people can see.
So I think let's start with the biggest one that I heard from you all, which is career goals. I think this is the most common of the three because it feels like something that we really need to grow. And so the time we spend on it and the results feel like an investment. They feel very precious. Like when it comes to relationships, you could meet like the love of your life tomorrow and complete that part of your story. But your career takes a little bit longer to
to establish and it feels very intentional so we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to get it right the first time around to get it right straight out the gate because we don't want to spend like five years doing something that we think we love or we think will be fulfilling and then you know we hit 30 and it's like a waste of our time that's how we interpret it we have to start again and
You know, we want to feel like we're doing things productively. We want to feel like we're making a contribution to our future. And so I think that fear of not getting it right the first time, that fear of not knowing of uncertainty, it really keeps us in places, in industries, in careers, in fields, in jobs that we don't fully love because we don't want to sacrifice the success
security of experience and have to start again. We also don't want to feel like
like a failure, right? We don't want people to, you know, catch up with us and ask us, how's work going? And be like, yeah, it's all right. It's fine. As if we should be doing more, as if we're wasting our time or wasting our lives doing something that we don't fully love and not even doing it at a high level compared to other people. So I asked you guys about this and I wanted to hear about your experience. Why do you feel behind in your career? And
And here's what some of you had to say. This one I absolutely love. I'm coming up on one year post uni this May and I feel some sadness about it because I thought that I'd be further along by now and the one year marker is just another reminder that I'm not.
After post-grad, it took me a while to find a job. That is so common, trust me. But when I did, it sounded great on paper, working in a professional newsroom at the number one channel in the third biggest city in the US. Wow, impressive.
After a few months of giving it a shot, I made the decision to leave because my intuition was telling me I had to go and I don't regret it. And then my dad fell sick. Better now. Oh, thank goodness. That's always good to hear. Fast forward to now, I feel like I'm back to square one of the job search process.
and I'm debating if I should go back to school and pursue an entirely different field outside of media. I feel shame about it even though I think it is very normal to go through at this age. Thank you so much for sharing. I feel like a lot of people can relate to that. I'm also really glad that your dad is doing better. That's really good news. I want to pick up on one thing that this person said and it was around
the feeling of shame. I think that shame element, that shame factor is something that we really need to focus on because starting again or acknowledging that we aren't necessarily where we want to be or imagined that we would be makes us feel in some way like we have failed, that we were not for it, that we weren't capable, that we made a huge mistake.
And shame has a lot of psychological origins, but one of the biggest ones is feeling like we have not lived up to the highest standards that we have set ourselves or our expectations. And therefore we kind of deserve to feel bad. We deserve some kind of negative emotional consequence as kind of like a retribution for failing ourselves.
It's also really frequently linked in academic research to a sense of inadequacy, which if you are a longtime listener, you know, is also related to being an overachiever, being a perfectionist or being somebody who is quite anxious.
Shame is a really common experience for the people that I've spoken to who, for example, have maybe taken a little bit longer to finish university, who have made a career change, who have had to spend a lot more time in those junior roles all over again. The other big group of people who experience this are those of us who have been fired or laid off because we don't typically think about...
those situations when we're planning our dream life right I've had a few friends who have gone through this recently and it's really really shitty it's a really frustrating situation and I think it's because in those situations even though it's out of our control we become very acutely aware of how our expectation for the future and where we would be at now and our reality is not lining up
And on some more social level, we focus on what we believe other people might assume about us because of that experience, because of being laid off. But also how everybody else is continuing to save up money, is continuing to progress, is continuing to have those years of experience on their resume. And our efforts at doing that have been phenomenal.
I think it's really important to remember that your career, whilst it is important, is not the sole basis of your identity or your worth. There is so much beyond what you do for a job that makes you interesting and makes you accomplished and makes you successful.
a good person just because it's taking a little bit longer for you to be where you would like to be doesn't mean that you're not picking up valuable things along the way okay let's hear from somebody else who I think really really demonstrates this point
I went to uni at 25 and people were so supportive. I'd never done higher education. I became a hairdresser at 16 and went traveling for a couple of years. So this was huge for me. However, since finishing uni, I've stepped back into hospitality full time and I feel like I should be doing more. Knowing my direction, have more to show for it.
Don't get me wrong, I love my job and I progressed position-wise. I've also recently lost my savings due to a savage house situation. I just see everyone at 27 having so much more financially, materialistically, relationship-wise and knowing their direction in life. Maybe this is a perception and also massively from social media's perspective. I've also been single for nine years now, so in all departments feeling behind.
See, I think this is also the hard thing, which is congratulations. Like you went to uni, you went and got like further education. Everyone says that that is like the easiest way to advance and move forward in your career and in your life. But a lot of us are not finding that right. Like a lot of us have degrees that we don't use and debt that kind of just weighs very heavily on our mind and restricts the other opportunities that we have.
could have in our life that we could unlock if we didn't have to worry about paying back a loan or whatnot. Here's another perspective on this that I really liked. I have everything that I've ever wanted in my life right now. I have a college degree, wonderful partner, I live in a big city, wonderful friends, fulfilling job, etc. But I constantly feel like I'm behind or setting myself up for failure with my finances. I have 30k in student loan debt in the United States.
stagnant 6k in credit card debt and I'm renting an apartment when I talk with friends who don't have these situations with their finances I see that they're able to save for a house go on fun exotic trips buy new cars etc I know I shouldn't compare but it's so hard not to when these are people that I surround myself with they are my community and I love them so deeply but I feel like I can't be transparent with how behind I feel from them
Honestly, money is a huge thing separate to career. You could have your absolute dream job, which by the sounds of it, this person does, they love what they're doing and still be struggling financially and feeling behind because of it. I think that the older you get, the more you realize that as unfortunate as it is, money kind of does make the world go round these days and
And it's really hard to ignore that fact when you see people who do have more seemingly enjoying their experiences and accumulating possessions and accumulating memories at a faster rate.
than we are. And not having to make the sacrifices that we do, it can leave us with a sense that we will always be behind. We didn't get kind of like the early start that they did to save, to invest, to set ourselves up for long-term financial independence. We're never going to have it as good as these other people did. It really manifests in, I think, some significant financial anxiety. And I also think financial cynicism.
we kind of think like, why am I even trying? Why am I even bothering to save when these people already got a head start? When will I ever be able to afford the life I want? And if I can't afford the life I want, why not just enjoy the moment now and spend willy-nilly and spend money frivolously because...
It's not like I can use this for a house. It's not like I can use this for a down payment for anything that's going to bring me like long term stability because the economy hasn't been set up for me. The economy hasn't been set up for me.
you know, younger people who are trying to assert themselves and trying to find stability and trying to buy a home or trying to at least have the capacity to like pay their bills. Beyond just fulfilling our most basic needs, I also want to talk about that feeling that if we are behind in finances, if we are behind in savings, we are behind in our capacity, our future capacity to enjoy our lives.
I don't think that this fear is about what somebody else has. It's not about what they have that we don't. It's about an even deeper and sometimes unconscious worry that because we are not achieving that kind of level of financial independence or savings or whatever, we are destined to lead an unfulfilling life.
If we acknowledge that money is a really pertinent, important resource for unlocking a certain lifestyle, it is this fear that if we don't have that money, we are going to have to live with regret of the opportunities, of the travel plans, of the material possessions that we couldn't afford. And that that regret is going to become more pronounced by seeing the people who do have it better, who were able to buy those things.
money unlocks opportunity and it unlocks a life that we want. I'm not going to go into a lecture around like money doesn't buy you happiness. Like you can be the richest person in the world and still never have enough because I just think that's not helpful. But I will say that in our 20s, we tend to think that the money we are making now is the money that we will be making forever. We don't often consider things like
bonuses, promotions, changing jobs, sudden windfalls. So yes, it's important to be conscious of your finances and what you can spend, but you do never really know when things will change for you. Okay, I think that we are going to take a short break because the moment I start giving financial advice is the moment that I need to get back into my own lane. So we are going to pause for a
especially, specifically, particularly why we feel behind in our relationships and then also what we can do about this experience. So stay with us. We'll be back in just a second.
Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, unpacking the toolbox where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but
Also, we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. So many people. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope. And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth-pulling scene that kicks off a romance.
And it was Peak TV. This is new scandal content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.
I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words. Yeah.
that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.
That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.
Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Guess what, Mango? What's that, Will? So iHeart is giving us a whole minute to promote our podcast, Part-Time Genius. I know. That's why I spent my whole week composing a haiku for the occasion. It's about my emotional journey in podcasting over the last seven years, and it's called Earthquake House. Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there. Why don't we just tell people about our show instead? Yeah, that's a better idea. So every week on Part-Time Genius, we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions.
Things like, when did America start dialing 911? Is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto? Also, what happened to Esperanto? Plus, we cover questions like, how Chinese is your Chinese food? How do dollar stores stay in business? And of course,
is there an Illuminati of cheese? There absolutely is. And we are risking our lives by talking about it. But if you love mind-blowing facts, incredible history, and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune in to Part-Time Genius. Listen to Part-Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
We put a pretty significant premium on romantic love in our 20s. I think it is one of our biggest sources of stress, of anxiety, a very huge focus of our everyday thoughts because it's very hard to feel complete in a society that prioritizes the idea of love and relationships and happily ever after above everything else.
Our society harbors a lot of single stigma, but not everyone is going to find their person in their 20s or their 30s or even their 40s. For some people, it really does take their whole lives and it doesn't mean that you are behind. Like without love, your life is empty. Without a partner, everything is glass half full.
I don't think that we should buy into this misconception as well that a relationship is something that we need to tick off our to-do list. It's not a goal. It's not a milestone. It's something that we naturally fall into. And if it works, that's amazing. That is such great news. But if it doesn't, that's all right. There is a whole portion of society who has found deep joy and fulfillment without a partner and who...
you know, experience insane transformative growth at the end of a relationship that completely pushes them into a new chapter and
in their life. I also think that the fear of being alone and therefore behind other people in our lives who have these serious long-term relationships, who are getting engaged, who are getting married, having children, sometimes that fear of not being where these people are at and falling quote-unquote behind them keeps us in relationships with the people who aren't right for you because at least you meet society's requirement to
for your 20s, for partnership, for finding love. It's a really hard feeling to not have that and it's possibly an even worse feeling to never have experienced love or really know what all the hype is about, to not have even had your first kiss, your first girlfriend, your first boyfriend, your first partner. So this was an amazing DM I received on this very kind of feeling that I had to share. I
I personally feel most behind in the area of romantic relationships. I'm 29 and I've never been in a relationship, not even close. Everyone has assured me that there's no timeline. It will happen when you're not looking slash least expect it, which I think is easy for them to say from the comforts of their relationships and marriages. I have worked hard throughout my 20s to grow in my self-love and self-worth. That's amazing. We love to hear it.
and to not let the feeling of being so behind affect me as much as it used to but I'd be lying to say it wasn't still hard some days. It feels like it will never happen and if it does I worry I won't be able to enjoy a new slash first relationship the same way that others have because of this impending rushed feeling especially when it comes to deciding if I would want kids or not.
That is really, really rough. And I think that comment about people saying things which they think are helping when they aren't,
is so spot on. Honestly, it's a big reminder to those of us who are in relationships that we think our words are comforting, but we don't remember how rough it is being single in our 20s or even in our 30s or being single at all sometimes. I also think that the reason it can be especially difficult being single, the later you get into this decade, is
is because the achievements and milestones of a single person aren't as celebrated as those in a relationship. Think about what the biggest celebration in adulthood kind of is. Like it's a wedding, right? But if you never get married, if you never have children or an anniversary or a significant other,
Who celebrates you? Who makes your important moments feel extra special, especially when everybody else begins to partner off and they have their like one person. It can kind of feel like you're on the sidelines. It can feel like everything you do is secondary to the praise and the love and the excitement that you see people getting from their relationship.
The other thing that this person spoke about that I think we don't speak about nearly enough in this context is the pressure of wanting to have children but feeling like you need to have a partner before you can do that. Especially for women, I feel like the older that I've gotten, the more conversations I've been having about fertility, about my biological clock, about things like egg freezing. And it's kind of like, is that future that I want for myself?
having children, is that going to be possible if I don't first achieve like the relationship status that would afford that? Because that's how society has told me it needs to be done. So quite a few of you actually did message in about this experience. I'm going to use one more example. I'm going to take one more DM that I really, really liked. I found quite articulate about this sense of being the last one in the friendship group to be single.
When I re-download the dating apps, it feels like I am bait. Not only to the worsening dating system, but as a prop for some of my friends who are in relationships to comment on how I live vicariously through you or I'm so glad I'm not on the apps.
I am just like my friends, though. I'm a lover girl just without the relationship. And I'm optimistic that I will find somebody. My 20s feel behind without somebody as a single person. I pay more to live. I feel lost and forgotten about when it comes to social activities. I'm not considered to be invited by my friends. I've lost friends who once were very happy to leave me to sit alone in a club whilst they all went away with their boyfriends.
Yikes, those are bad friends. Trust me, you didn't lose anybody worth having. But I think that really highlights some other really critical points, right? It's not just about love. It's not just about finding somebody in connection. It kind of relates to everything else in our lives, like finances, paying more to live as a single person, like our friendships, feeling like as all of our friends find people, you're kind of excluded from the couple kind of relationships that people now have. So
So that is one experience when it comes to feeling behind in our relationships, the experience of inexperience and feeling like there is just such a huge part of your life that is missing that you may never experience. You'll never know what people kind of write the songs about, why they say love is a drug. You just never get to feel cared for in the way that you've kind of always wanted. It's
more than a longing, I think. It becomes an insecurity that something must be wrong with you because everyone else has been able to have this experience, has found at least somebody who wanted to date them and you haven't. Trust me,
It just hasn't happened yet. That's all. And that really, really sucks. And I'm really sorry that you feel like you're missing out because I can understand exactly where you're coming from. But I'm not going to give you some like bullshit reminder of like, don't worry, like it happens when you least expect it. What I am going to say is that when it does happen, because it will happen, it's going to feel amazing.
it's going to feel greater than all of your expectations and I think that the moment that it does happen you'll look back at where you are now and be like what was I worried about why was I so stressed you know one of my best friends is 28 and she's never been in a relationship before and I look at her and I honestly cannot comprehend why because she is absolutely perfect and
But sometimes it just goes that way. You just haven't crossed paths with the right person yet. You've been selective. You've held back. That's a good thing. You've been picky. But you will never be the last one standing, I promise. There's always going to be somebody else in the same boat who is navigating the same loneliness, the same insecurity, the same anticipation as you are. So the other group of people who I think struggle with feeling behind in their romantic relationships during their 20s is...
is those of us who spent a big part of this decade or our early 20s with a single person who we kind of thought was the one, we'd never have to be single again. And then unexpectedly things go south and you break up. This was one person's experience and I really liked how they put it.
My gosh, we love an educated woman.
So I see newborns and families all the time. Whilst I try and have grace and faith, it just reiterates how badly I want it and how behind I feel now. I'm so, so sorry. I just cannot imagine how...
both like joyful and simultaneously difficult that would be to be like, wow, like this is such an incredible experience for this new family and this like new soul that's in the world. But it brings me so much pain because that is exactly what I wanted. I think that's a huge contributor to feeling behind is feeling like you've done everything right, that you've got the relationship, you've got the job, you're doing
Doing great with your savings, with your personal development, with everything else you want in life. And then something kind of just like comes out of left field and knocks that all down. And all of your planning, all your cautious efforts, all the work that you've put into this relationship, that you've put into creating this life that you wanted for yourself is amazing.
undone. And you kind of have to find a way to move forward with a reality that you didn't expect. That's a huge thing that happens during this decade when, you know, unfortunately, long-term relationships do end. The person that you think you were going to marry turns out to just be somebody who was a secondary character, somebody who was just there to further the story along, to teach you a lesson. So I have a lot of love for this person and I have a lot of love for
The other people who are going through this, who are not only experiencing heartbreak and grief, but also a new reality that their life might not be as like all together as they wanted it to be. There may be things that are now delayed and suddenly you're feeling behind again. You're feeling like you're back at the starting line when it comes to finding connection, finding a relationship, finding someone to kind of grow with you by your side.
So we've spoken about the three core reasons that people feel behind in their 20s, career finances, love.
I want to now go through a quick rundown of some of the reasons this happens that we haven't mentioned. I know we've kind of spoken about some of the contributing factors before, but there are some other psychological components to feeling behind that I think we deserve to mention. And you guys have, of course, shared even more of your experiences when it comes to this. So first off the bat, we have external pressure. We know that it comes from a place of love.
But when everyone in our life is asking us about what we want to do, what's our dream job? What are our plans for the future? How's our dating life going? Have we met anyone like nice recently? That sense of expectation really begins to pile up. We suddenly feel like we're not just living our life and our 20s for ourselves, but for others. And we need to meet some kind of like standard to change.
not just make them happy, but to kind of get them to shut up and to kind of get them to feel like we're doing all right and we're doing what they expect. I also find that what's next mentality quite difficult because as a society, we're very focused on momentum and we're very focused on progress and success. And because of that, we never stop, pause and focus on what we have now.
It's kind of like an example I always give is you graduate after studying for years and years and years and immediately people are asking you how the job hunt is going.
And immediately people are like, so what's next? What are you going to do with your life? When's the full-time work start? And if you're like, oh no, I haven't quite found something yet. Oh, okay. Well, let me know when you do. Let me know if you need help. Like, oh, you should really get looking because it takes a while. Like, it's not helpful. You know, you break up with your partner of three years, like that person we spoke about before, and people are suddenly worried about when you're going to get back in the dating game. Yeah.
You know, the clock is ticking. That's the big one. When we are so focused on what's next and we're so focused on pushing the needle forward, pushing our life forward, we never really have time to just process where we're at and to enjoy what we're experiencing and what we're learning and enjoy like
the youth enjoy who we are right now. We're never going to get that person back again. One final factor that I want to note that we actually haven't spoken about yet, which is surprising because of how ubiquitous and universal it is, is what people have been labeling as the pandemic skip. This idea that for those of us who spent a lot of our early 20s in a lockdown, in quarantine, dealing with the COVID pandemic,
We were unable to travel. We missed out on some of those big formative events like a graduation, like having our first jobs in person, like the opportunity to go out and meet new people, to move cities. We lost a lot of time and experiences during our formative years. And so, yes, you might be 25, you might be 24, 27, whatever. But really, you're like 22 or 23 because of that time gap.
that you lost. Whilst you think that you should have it all together, like a typical 25 year old should have or a 27 year old, really you're not accounting for that whole chapter where your future was delayed beyond your control and so it was kind of like time froze.
You weren't really experiencing the world the way that 20-something-year-olds 10 years ago or 10 years before that would have experienced it. So you can't beat yourself up for some of the things that you just didn't have the opportunity to go out and see during that really special formative time in our early 20s when we do have a lot of freedom, when there is so much more capacity and
openness to growth and experience. So yes, like I said, take a few years off your age, treat yourself like you are the real 23 year old or 20 year old that you actually are and give yourself a little bit of a break. So someone wrote in about this and I really love their perspective. I'm in my late 20s and I've realized recently that part of my feeling behind is due to COVID. I had just turned 24 when everything started and
And because of the lockdowns here in Melbourne, I got stuck in a job who underpaid me for my workload and responsibility. And I missed those mid 20 years of socializing, of learning and growing. So where I'm now is good, but it's not where I thought I'd be two to three years ago. It's been really tough wrapping my head around it, honestly. Literally, this person articulated it so, so perfectly. There is so much hype around.
around not just the progress we should be making in our 20s and where we should be, but also some of the more fun things, the more enjoyable things that kind of set the foundation for future experiences. You know, travel is the one that always comes to my mind. You know, the reason why airfare prices like jumped dramatically
like through the roof, especially if you're from Australia. I feel like if you tried to go anywhere last year, it was like triple the amount that you would normally expect. It was kind of like people traveling as like a revenge for when they couldn't travel during COVID and making up for those lost experiences. Okay, so we spent a lot of time talking about what contributes to us feeling behind. But I think regardless of what's causing this sense of stagnation, you kind of have to find a way to manage it, right? Yeah.
Something I believe very deeply in life is that life is hard enough. You don't need to make yourself feel any worse for going at your own pace, for going about things differently, for not meeting some intangible, weird, socially imposed timeline. I say that very firmly, but I think knowing it is one thing, implementing this belief system and this attitude of nonchalance and going about it your own way is another. So
We're going to go on a short break, but when we come back, we're going to talk through some tips on how to manage the sense that you are behind in life and behind in your 20s. Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, Unpacking the Toolbox, where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of Scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but
Also, we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. So many people. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope. And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth-pulling scene that kicks off a romance.
And it was Peak TV. This is new scandal content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.
I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words. Yeah.
that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between.
This life right here, just finding myself, just this relaxation, this not feeling stressed, this not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things. That feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.
Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Criminalia. I'm Maria Tremarcki.
And I'm Holly Frey. Together, we invite you into the dark corridors of history and true crime. For each season, we explore a new theme. From poisoners to stalkers, art thieves to snake oil salesmen. We uncover the secrets of history's most interesting figures, such as Walter Minx, the man who built his own submarine hoping to escape with his blackmail payout under Lake Michigan. It sounds made up, but it's 100% true.
We'll explore the crimes as well as societal forces at play, from unfair sentencing to jaw-dissolving health risks. And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story. Listen to Criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
One of the biggest therapeutic interventions in like the mental health psychology space is cognitive behavioral therapy. You have probably heard about it before, but the premise is that you can change your negative emotional reactions quickly.
to your circumstances by firstly correcting unhelpful or faulty ways of thinking. It is essentially a conscious cognitive rewiring so that instead of thinking the worst of a situation, instead of predicting that you'll fail, instead of saying hurtful, hard, mean, self-doubting statements to yourself, instead you reposition them and you reframe them to be positive.
So essentially the premise is if you can change how you think about something, you will change how you react to that thing as well. So for example, instead of thinking I'm not where I want to be, that makes me a failure. I'm never going to get where I want to go. I'm always going to feel behind. I'm never going to have what that person has. You instead reframe your perspective as something more positive.
For example, you think about your journey like you are taking the scenic route. We've mentioned that before. You're not just kind of like zooming down life's highway. You are not just like picking up accomplishments and milestones on the way and not really enjoying them.
You are taking the scenic route. You are, you know, trusting the process. You're stopping for a swim in the ocean. You're chatting to the locals. You're picking up special memories that we don't always make when we're so focused on output. We're so focused on doing everything perfectly. We're so focused on keeping up with this imaginary norm.
Part of reframing your cognitions towards your circumstances is also around focusing on the benefits of not having it all figured out. So this was a contribution that spoke about this that I loved. I'm 24 and I graduated from uni at 22, which is the average age to graduate in the US. I'd never left the US and I've spent the last year and a half since graduating traveling. Oh my gosh, that's so fun. A year and a half. That's like incredible.
I feel so behind my friends though who graduated and hopped straight into full-time jobs. I've since done seasonal and freelance work and I've lived and traveled through seven countries including Australia. Oh my gosh, love to hear it. But I still can't shake the feeling that I'm behind in the material things. Even though I've had incredible personal growth, I
I found a really fulfilling relationship. I've become more confident, self-sufficient, and I've reflected on things that I want in life. It feels like the US specifically doesn't value traveling for the sake of travel, which makes me really sad because I've had so much more growth trying to figure out public transit and visas in foreign countries than I ever did sitting in lecture halls at uni. Okay, right off the bat, congratulations, seven countries. That is an amazing feat.
And I especially like when people come to Australia because I know it's very far from like everywhere else in the world, but it is like genuinely the most beautiful country ever. Obviously, I'm a little bit biased, but what really sticks out to me about this is the fact that you had this amazing experience traveling, right?
But you still felt behind because all of your friends are doing the traditional route, which is great for them. They went to uni and they went straight into their jobs. I bet you some good money that a lot of your friends are looking at your experience and thinking, damn, I really should have just taken a couple years off. I am so burnt out by work. I really never gave myself a chance to actually enjoy my free time and to enjoy some time off.
What I'm really speaking about here is the trade-off that we have to make, especially in our early 20s, where there are so many decisions, there are so many options, so many choices and different ways of going about life and going about our future, that with each choice we make, we do have to lose something. But with everything that you lose, you also do gain something in return. It's just about what it is that you value. So you
yes, you might lose that security of having a job lined up, that stability, but you also gain perhaps something that is more aligned with what you really value in life. That could be freedom, that could be flexibility, that could be excitement and growth. You are never not gaining something from your experiences, even if it's not what you expected, even if it's not going according to plan. I also think that it's important to confront the grass is greener
philosophy, the grass is greener syndrome. Whilst you're looking at somebody else's journey, as I said, and feeling deficient in comparison, they may be looking at yours and wishing for what you have. Just because your path is different doesn't mean that it's inferior, doesn't mean that it's also not the source of envy for other people. So I want you to focus on what you have gained more than what you have lost.
Yes, you may have lost the stability of a full-time job straight out of uni. Yes, you may have lost some of that financial security that these people had, you know, a quote-unquote head start at. That doesn't mean that their path is now forever more going to be easy and that yours is going to be difficult. People come across a lot of upsets and setbacks and mistakes and barriers that will inevitably push all of our paths onto, you
you know, a different track than we initially thought. Just because they've spent the first two years out of the gate, you know, the first two years after graduation, for them seemingly has gone very smoothly and very according to plan, doesn't mean that in five years time somebody isn't having an existential crisis and going, oh my god, I've actually never really enjoyed a moment of my life. Or, oh my gosh, I actually never gave myself the opportunity to really think about what I wanted. I just really felt the need to fulfill this career criteria to have something lined up, to
to have a job, to have a sense of purpose that now I'm finding it hard to connect to. Not to get really existential, but, you know, we all end up in the same place.
What's the rush? Do you want to spend your limited time wanting to be further ahead, wanting to have a solid plan and know exactly what the next 5, 10, 15 years will bring? There is no room for excitement in that. There is no room for surprise. There is no room for flexibility.
It's also worth reminding you that if you are in your 20s, and I'm assuming that you are, you are just getting started. This is the first decade of many, many decades and many, many seasons and chapters of life. Think about your life. I've used this analogy before, but think about it like a TV series, right? It's not like the first season is all there is and
They just replay the first season again and again for the next nine seasons. Your life is very much like that. You're in your early 20s. You're in your 20s. That is the first season of your TV show.
Next season is going to be completely different. And so is the season after that, because you are constantly changing and evolving. Right now, you're in the experimentation phase. You're in the uncertainty phase. You're in like the confusing chapter. A lot of people have made this pilgrimage before you. A lot of people have had this experience. So I want you to kind of soothe your doubt and soothe your insecurity with
Through a sense of like normalcy and through a sense of community that you are not alone in this. A couple weeks back, actually, we had the amazing Dr. Meg Jay on the podcast. You might know that name. She is a very, very famous author. She wrote The Defining Decade. She is a lecturer. She is a really spectacular psychologist. And she was telling me about how when she was in her mid to late 20s, right after university, she was working as an outward bound instructor.
She was literally spending her days paddling through a swamp, showing like tourists and, you know, people around nature. That is so different to what she is doing now. And I'm sure that whilst, you know, I can't speak for her, but I'm sure that while she was doing this, she was watching people she knew go to grad school. She was watching people she knew win awards and have kids and set up their own businesses. But the thing is, is that now at the age she is at,
she is still in a really good place. And I'm sure those other people are as well, but just because her journey wasn't exactly the way that it needed to be, doesn't mean that she didn't end up getting to a place where she was really fulfilled. And another component of that is that all those experiences that I'm sure she was like, dang, I really wish I was doing something else. I really wish that my life had turned out differently. Those experiences are probably really, really valuable now. And they're the kind of experiences that possibly contribute
you know, massively to all of her incredible ideas and her writing that she may not have had if she'd taken yet again the traditional route. There's nothing wrong with that route. It's just that it's not the only way to go about it.
In terms of feeling behind in your relationship, I want to talk about my friend Katie, another guest that we had on the show. She met her first boyfriend at 27, almost when she was 28. And now she is in this wonderful relationship. In the episode that I did with her, she really speaks quite vulnerably about how difficult it was to be at that age and feel like she was missing out on this huge component of a fulfilling, happy life, which was
love. But, you know, she took time to learn herself. She had the experiences with people that, you know, didn't work out. She had time to make beautiful, fulfilling friendships, to move cities, to do all those things. And she ended up in this like incredible relationship with this amazing person. And she said something really profound, which is that she looks back at it now and she can appreciate that it was hard.
but it really felt quite worth it. So there's another example. And, you know, because we're on a bit of a roll, I'm also going to include my mom in this as somebody who you can think of and feel better about yourself. When she was in her 20s, she literally got kicked out of
Like every single course that she did. She failed her first degree. She was asked to leave by her old university faculty. She was working at a restaurant for years whilst her friends, you know, got scholarships and became doctors and nurses. But she took her time. And when she felt ready, she went back to university. She's now a CEO.
She now literally runs a company. She is like an incredible woman. She raised three daughters. She has like an army of beautiful, beautiful friends and she's really successful. And I'm sure that when she was in that phase where it wasn't working out, where all she could think was about her failures and everything that hadn't been a success, she wouldn't have been able to picture where she is now. I think we really need to start
glamorizing and sharing the success stories of people who didn't have it straightforward and reminding ourselves that just because it's taking a bit longer doesn't mean you won't get there eventually and even if you don't get to where you imagined you would be in the time that you wanted to do it you can still feel happy in whatever circumstances you find yourselves in I want to remind you of just the
The resilience of humans and the fact that people find great joy and great strength and something to live for and beauty and excitement, even in situations that they never could have anticipated. So even if it isn't going according to plan, it doesn't mean that the end result isn't going to be great.
Amazing. There's one final thing I want to say on this and it's actually a quote and I actually saw it on Reddit when I was doing some investigating for this episode and it was a very well-known quote which is that youth is wasted on the young. I think this exact situation we're talking about goes to demonstrate that quite well. A lot of people who are in their mid-30s, late 30s now, early 40s
all look back at their 20s and think, oh my god, why was I so worried? You know, I think we have a lot of hype around doing it all in this decade, but this is when we're making the least amount of money, we feel very stuck, we're not completely sure of ourselves, all the experiences that we should be having are wasted on us because we don't know how to appreciate them, we don't have the hindsight of knowing that it's all going to work out. So
trust our elders, I guess. Trust the people that have come before us who say time and time again, don't worry too much. It's all going to be okay. I feel like when I think about their experiences and their advice, it always brings me a real sense of inner peace. So thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you have made it this far,
please DM me on Instagram and I'm going to send you a big fat love heart to say thank you for putting up with my rambling. I know that this episode is a little bit different to what we usually do. I loved being able to incorporate some of your anecdotes, some of your experiences and just be a little bit more fluid with it. I,
appreciate you listening this far and if you did enjoy this episode please feel free to give the podcast a five-star review on apple podcast spotify wherever you are listening right now make sure you're following or you're subscribed based on what platform you're listening and share this episode with a friend who you think might also be feeling a little bit stuck feeling a little bit behind feel like a problem shared it's a problem halved
and it probably will make every person in that situation feel a little bit less alone and take the pressure off, take the foot off the gas for a little while. So thank you so much for listening. Until next episode, stay safe and be kind and we'll talk soon.
Hi, I'm Katie Lowes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also, we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for an even more behind-the-scenes Scandal.
stories with Unpacking the Toolbox. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years.
Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Angie Martinez, and on my podcast, I like to talk to everyone from Hall of Fame athletes to iconic musicians about getting real on some of the complications and challenges of real life.
I had the best dad and I had the best memories and the greatest experience. And that's all I want for my kids as long as they can have that. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Want to know how to leverage culture to build a successful business? Then Butternomics is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Brandon Butler, founder and CEO of Butter ATL. And on Butternomics, we go deep with today's most influential entrepreneurs, innovators, and business leaders to peel back the layers on how they use culture as a driving force in their business. Butternomics will give you what you need to take your game to the next level. Listen to Butternomics on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.