Salah Best RW Ever, Pep v Fergie & Fans Being Ripped Off? | The Overlap Fan Debate Feat. Stunt Pegg
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Arsenal have an inferiority complex. Whoever they come up against, they feel inferior to them. And it's right, because they are. I like the cut of your jib. After this, me and him are going to go for a Nando's. Yeah, you too. Chelsea created a £5,000 ticket for one match. Stop ripping us off. Stop exploiting our loyalty. I think Newcastle have got the most balanced team in the Premier League. I think we're going to do the unthinkable and the unimaginable. I don't even know if that's a hot take, because I think everyone agrees with you. Just

Can the Nations League Because I just don't see The point in it at all They're a three pin plug In Europe We know that they are Completely ineffective in Europe And I want to know Everyone's opinion yeah

Hello and welcome back to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. As you can see, Jamie and Scolzi, they're not here this week, but I've got me, Betty Glover on the sofa, of course, and I'm joined by me, Patrucci Yellow, who is a massive Bolton fan. I understand that is your club, but if you had to support a Premier League team, who would it be?

No, no, I couldn't. I couldn't pick one. I mean, have any of you guys got a League One club? No. No. I love how they're sort of trying to be like, pick us, pick me. I want to say I've seen a picture in a City shirt somewhere. Is that wrong? Definitely not. I mean, you're almost 20 with me today. You're giving Arsenal or Bournemouth vibes or United vibes.

Oh, certainly not United. No. I like it that way. You like it that way. Before we get into everything and we start the show properly, we've got to start with our new feature quiz. It's called Time Added On. This is where we sort of put the fans against each other. The winner at the end of the season is going to receive a mystery prize. As we can see, Rory and Adam have already gone. They got eight points each. No.

I got nine. No, you did. It's there. I got nine. No, no, I contested one as well and I was told that the ruling was final, therefore Adam's ruling is final. Also, I should be top on alphabetical order. Yeah, that is true. I mean, you can take that up with whoever. But VAR did look at yours and they did make the decision that you were on eight. So sometimes it's right, sometimes it's wrong. You've just got to go with it. But who's going to go up first? Lee, I think it's you this time, isn't it? Are you excited? Nervous, but come on then. Hit me. So you're going to have everything Newcastle.

Related. Niamh is going to time. Are you ready, Niamh? Yeah, I'm ready. She's just getting the clock up on her phone. Good luck, and if you don't do well, just do what Adam does and create your own score. LAUGHTER

Everyone's coming for that today, you know, I love it. I'm here for it, though. I'm new and I'm... I'm going to need a hug off you in a bit. I'm here and I'm like... So you've got 90 seconds on the clock. 15 questions in that time is the maximum that you can get. If the clock stops when I'm reading my question, we'll still take your answer because you can answer that. Are you ready? Ready.

Three, two, one, go. Which Belgium chipped Peter Smeichel in Newcastle's 5-0 victory over Manchester United in 1996? Philippe Albert. Correct. How many goals did Andy Cole score for Newcastle in the Premier League? Was it 43, 50 or 29? 50. Wrong, 43. Who is Newcastle United's record transfer fee signing? Alexandre Izzac. Correct. Who scored more Premier League goals for Newcastle? Demba Ba of Papi Sissé. Of course.

C.C. Correct. Yeah, that was correct. In 2011, when Newcastle last beat Sunderland in the Premier League, who scored in a 1-0 win? Ryan Taylor over the wall. Correct. Can you name the four Premier League Newcastle managers that have also had the England job? Kevin Keegan, Steve McLaren. Yep. Sir Bobby Robson. Yep. Oh, who was the other one? There's an obvious one in there, isn't there?

Can I come back away? Yeah, come back, pass. Newcastle beat Barcelona 3-2 in 1997. Who scored a perfect hat-trick? Aspera. Correct. Name the strike partnership that scored the most goals in a single Premier League season. Corleone-Biagli. Correct. Who was Newcastle's first signing after the successful Saudi takeover? Keirin Trippier. Yep. Which Ivory Coast international scored to make it 4-4 in a famous comeback against Arsenal? Check to your ear.

NTL. Yeah, correct. Which Mark Knopfler song is... Time. Put your start. ..pre-match at St James' Park? Local Hero. Correct. I don't know. I don't know my time on that one. I don't know. I don't know.

You were going to be quite upset with yourself, I think. Oh, it's the Sam Allardyce one. He sold me McCullough there. Yeah, Sam Allardyce. Because he wasn't here long. That's why. He wasn't at England last year. They're just doing the count now, so... He's top of it. We're waiting. Lee, how many do you think you got? Nine. Ten. Get in. That is a solid score. That takes a lot to come up. I'll take that.

I think I got ten of them. I don't know. I don't get any hate in the comments now. No hate. No, you will from me. Are you disappointed? Yeah. Because I think I got ten of them as well. I even got the Sam Adelaide one. Yeah. To get the other three. Are you taking points off him, though? He's trying to now. He's trying to now. He's trying to steal your points. It's like Man City all over again. Go on, Niamh, whack it on. Is someone else going to adjust it? Because as it stands, he's...

You need to put him on the top, Nick. Come on, top of the chain. Move it all around. Does anyone think they can beat 10? Nope. Give it a good go, I reckon. Yeah? It depends on the question. It's all about the questions. We had questions where we had to give four answers. That is true, but I think everyone will have that. Yeah. The brawling get that. I didn't realise I'd be so wounded to not be top of the thing.

Now it is time for the big debate. But first, we're going to start with the London blockbuster. It is going to be Flav against Rory. So Flav, you are going to set up a Spurs argument and Rory, you're going to counter it. You're going to have 60 seconds to present to us this debate. We're going to hear the counter argument from Rory and then everyone in the studio has a paddle and they're going to vote for which one that they agree with or they think was the best. You look confused. Why do you look confused? Am I supposed to know what the debate is?

Yeah, you've got the question. You know what the debate is.

Do I? Spurs to win the Premier League in the next five years. LAUGHTER Right, so, sorry, the confusion was that there was another debate about the size of the club, which I thought I'd prepared for. But that's all right, that's fine, let's do this. You can do that if you'd rather. No, no, this is fine. Spurs win the league in the next five years. OK, I've got it. You sure? Yeah. Does he actually have to go for or can he go against it? LAUGHTER

You can come again. Okay, are you ready? Yeah. So, Niamh, we need your stopwatch again. If you can set your timer to 60 seconds. You ready? As soon as Flav starts, you start your timer. Right. So, football now is about money, and the more money you have, the more likely it is that you'll win the Premier League.

Spurs are in a situation where we have naming rights of the stadium to sell, plus interest from areas of the world that have an abundance of money. The problem with Spurs not winning the trophy is mainly down to Daniel Levy's inability to be ambitious in the transfer market, like not signing someone of the ilk of Decom Rice. However, this new investor will come in with all the money in the world and a massive advantage with PSR and those rules, and it will mean that Spurs will become a monolithic...

financial superpower in the Premier League

And that will happen in the next five years and we'll win the league. You've still got 20 seconds. So the players, we'll be able to compete with any club to assign the very best players. And again, just to go back to the fact that clubs around us are always playing really players that we can't compete with. Now this is going to change. This is going to change. And because of that, we're going to win the league in the next five years. He's talking about accounts. Flav, did you believe in that?

I genuinely believe there's going to be a shift towards Tottenham and then becoming a superpower in the Premier League, yes.

Okay. Yeah, be a financial one. And just genuinely because the thing that's held us back but also created the football club is Daniel Levy. But his hesitancy in being aggressive in the transfer market. Yeah, you've had your seat. We're going to hear from everybody else in a moment. But Rory, are you ready for your counter-argument? Yeah, I'll give it a go. Ready, Niamh? Yeah? Yeah.

So I think the reason why all of that, if I've understood it correctly, is nonsense is because the history of the club teaches you who Tottenham are. You know, the history of the Tottenham. They're a team that have won two League Cups since 1991.

I think it's ridiculous, ludicrous, almost embarrassing for us to sit here on this luxurious platform, which is an honour to be here, and discuss Tottenham winning a league. It doesn't make any sense. As I said, two League Cups since 1991. The last time they won the league, it was closer to the Victorian era than it is to today. They're a team that constantly tell you that they're a big club. Tottenham are a big club. Biggest club in London, some of them like to say. They're big based upon what, I ask you?

I think it might be because their great-grandad saw them win the double. His great-grandad saw them win the double and therefore they're a big club today. So none of it really makes any sense. And then you start bringing in the Chelsea element. It's ridiculous to even compare the two. Chelsea won 6-1 at White Hart Lane. Chelsea won 5-1 at Wembley. We beat them 4-0 twice in three days. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbeck scoring a hat-trick, a perfect hat-trick. I don't really understand how this is even a debate, but can we hear more about the monolithic Tottenham?

My grandad taught us. Okay, interesting. What does everyone think then? I won. I'm voting for Flav. What colour is Flav? Flav is green, Rory is red. Monolithical. I'm not really voting. Everyone raise your panels in the air.

Yes, my brother. No, wife. Why? Because everything in that transition of new owners, money, new stadium. I'm saying you want to be in football for that. Are you back me in that? Based on Daniel Amakachi. There we go, see? We're just backing each other. You can't just back each other. Send me Richarlison back him. You can have him. I feel like that is pretty unanimous. Oh, what a surprise. Rory, you've won this debate. Well done. Everyone give him a round of applause. APPLAUSE

You're one of the few that voted for Flav, why? Your argument was much better than Rory's. Thank you, Niamh. I voted for him as well. Why? Just because, you know, if there is a change of ownership, they have got the foundations, maybe not five years, but all Rory did was talk about the past. What had happened. Yeah. You learn about the future by studying the past. No, you learn about where the foundations of the football club now...

The PSR thing is interesting for me and the new ownership is fascinating and the capital wealth coming from... Six seconds, not Flav. Just you lot wait. It's going to happen one day. One day it'll happen. I didn't even mention it. And I'll be there. Ryan, you also voted for Flav. I just see Everton in a similar situation of like new stadium, new ownership, money coming in from different areas.

Anything can change with that. And I love the confidence of him, so, yeah. You thought that was confidence? I thought he was... Yeah, cos he came in with a line that he never got himself and he backed it to the moon. He just went, I really felt sorry for him. I think you did a good argument. I did. Well done, Flav. Cheers.

Just one question for you, though. If Spurs did manage to win a trophy this year, do you think that would change the mentality of the club? Like it did in 2008? I don't know. I don't know. I think the mentality is changing with someone like Ange Postacoglu in charge.

It's hard to see past the fact that Daniel Levy's been there that long for him to not have a part in it. So maybe his step back or departure from the football club would be necessary. I don't really know. I just want to win something. I don't care if it changes the content. When one day Ramos won a trophy at Wembley in 2008, he said, this is the first of many. Can I just say something? Pick you up on something. You said...

why we think we're the biggest club in London. You ever got in a black cab in London? Listen to what they say. Because you lot are obsessed with us. We don't win anything. You hate us. The biggest day out of the season is Chelsea versus Tottenham, West Ham versus Tottenham and Arsenal versus Tottenham. That's not on us. What does that tell you about yourself? That we're massive.

There you go. Okay, right, we're going to move this on. We are going to have a Manchester City, well, a Manchester derby. So Luke, you're going to be representing Manchester City. Adam, Manchester United. Luke, you're going to go first. And your point is Pep Guardiola is the greatest manager the Premier League has ever seen. You're going to have 60 seconds to argue that point. Are you ready? I'm ready.

OK, Niamh, on your watch. Yeah. Go. Eight seasons, six league titles, in a shorter period of time as well. Pep Guardiola, if you think about him as a manager, he's had more iconic seasons than Fergie ever did. He's obviously got a better title win percentage. He's got 100 points, Centurions, that was unprecedented, followed up by 98 points. A domestic treble as well, that season that Fergie said was never possible, that he could never win. Yeah.

He then won the treble and ours was better than United's. One, because it was in this millennium and two, because we beat United on the way to do that. And not only that, we did it after 12 seconds into the FA Cup final we scored. So you've got that. Fergie broke the transfer record countless times. Pep did it once, Jack Grealish, and a lot of people would question that sign and I personally wouldn't

but people are going to say Pep Guardiola, the style of play everyone across the whole country, across the whole world, wants to play Pep Guardiola's style of play. Did anyone want to play Fergie's style of play? Or was it just lastminute.com and sign the best player in the league again? He did it with Van Persie. He did it every season. He went and got Andy Cole, breaking the transfer record. Pep Guardiola, you're questioning the funds. I've already given you the facts there. And the likes of Chelsea, Arsenal, United spend more than us.

The more he was going on there, he was just going back. I thought I was going to get it. He just kept building up. I liked it, though. It was the adrenaline, right? At least there's not 15 United fans over there to vote against me. Right, we all know what you're going to say then, Adam. I just won't say it then, yeah? Are you ready? Mm-hm.

The Lance Armstrong of football over there. Fergie achieved everything greater than he did before he even came to Manchester United by breaking the Rangers and Celtic old firm rule in Scotland and, of course, beating Real Madrid in a European final. That's greater than anything Pep Guardiola has ever done.

He's not gone to a club that's guaranteed with all these finances, breaking all these rules and all this stuff. Rodri goes out of the team to lose four games on the spin. Fergie could do it with John O'Shea and Fletcher and whoever else in the team, Raphael and Fabio rocking up in midfield and beating whoever. Like, Fergie did it with much less...

And he did a lot more in terms of the trophies that he won, the legacy that he achieved. Winning the treble with academy players as well is a lot more romantic and better than what they did, breaking all the rules along the way. So, yeah, I think I don't need six seconds. It's done. You've got nine seconds. Eight seconds.

You should have used them seconds because I was... It's close. 115 charges as well. OK, time. Good argument. What does everybody think then? What's the colours? So what are the colours? Is anyone stuck? Is anyone stuck on this, by the way? Yeah, it's different eras of football. You've obviously spoken about the Fergie era and Pep Guardiola. Forgot to mention Alonso, Maresca and Arteta as well. Who did Fergie make?

Gary Neville? It's going to be green for Luke and red for Adam, OK? Is everyone ready? Give Gary his credit, by the way. What's colouring? Sorry. Green for Luke. I thought you argued your case valiantly. You did a really good job. The answer... Four in a row as well. I'm backing United's...

Yeah, I just... Oh, hold on, it's quite split. I don't think his argument was as great, but I just think everyone knows... That was impossible. I'm saying... Guardiola? What are you doing? Outrageous. Guardiola's a better manager than Alex Ferguson. He's the greatest Premier League manager of all time. Give me this stick, we'll win five titles in a row and then you might... I thought it was a debate. Do you know what is a huge point, though? You know what Adam brought up earlier about Pataudry?

That is huge if you're trying to compare the two. Premier League manager, tell me when Aberdeen played in the Premier League. Tell me. Tell me when that was. And then we'll have a debate. It was a good thing. Pep scored Fergie twice with Barcelona. He scored twice. He was literally shaking in the chat. You just said it's Premier League. Yeah, it's Premier League. What sways it for me is nothing you said, but it was actually the best side I've ever seen in the Premier League. There was the one, the City side from two years ago. In my opinion. So it has to be Guardiola for me.

So you can't listen to the arguments. Charlene, you went for Luke as well. Our childhood was ruined by Fergie, that's for sure. A bit of PTSD. I mean, I'm not disputing, you know, what Fergie did do, but I'm going to go for Luke, Pep Guardiola, everything that he's, you know, currently and, well, previously...

been in the more recent times at Man City. I do feel like they both had really good points. Obviously, Fergie going back a bit as opposed to the more current footballers.

football and you know Arteta did learn from Pep Guardiola so just gonna I can't I can't believe I'm saying this but I'd rather watch a Fergie team than a Pep yeah it drives me up the wall just passing it to the side it's boring to watch he has kind of ruined I'm turning he has ruined I would much rather watch a Ferguson side than a Guardiola side the only team he loses consistently against is Tottenham and you've just turned it that's a good point no

You're just going to be there racing forever. Niamh, why have you gone for ref? I just think it's obvious. I can't believe anyone's suggesting Pep.

Come back to me when he's won double. The Premier League is currently one. He's had eight years. Fergie had 25. But then that's the whole point. That longevity is the whole point. That counts as well. Winning Premier Leagues in the early 90s, winning Premier Leagues in 2013, with that team as well that he had in 2013. To win the Premier League with that team, Sir Alex.

All the different obstacles the team tried to beat him overcame them every single time, Sir Alex. Look where Man United are now without Ferguson. Not a digger din or anything, but Man United are on how they are. Do you think that's because they just haven't moved on? They've been so nostalgic. I think that's part of it. I think if Guardiola left Man City, I still think they'll get top four. I don't think the wheels will fall off as drastic as what they did with Man U.

Good point. OK, well, well done, Adam. Smashed it. Congratulations. That's not for you, by the way. I was. I was talking to you. Next time, Luke. It's all right, it's all right. At Leidos, a brilliant mind is smart, but a brilliant team is smarter.

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So, moving on. Hot Takes is back, everybody. And we know they love a debate, but I think they love Hot Takes even more. We are going to hear from all of our fans to find their Hot Takes from the Premier League, their teams. Maybe they're going to talk about VAR. Who knows? Let's hope not, because we could be here forever. Niamh, let's go to you first, because I believe you've got a Hot Take to kick us off. Yeah. Although I don't think it's a Hot Take, I think this is certain now.

The all-time Premier League XI right-wing position is now Mo Salah. Do we all agree? Gareth does. What formation, though? Is it like a 4-3-3 or a 4-4-2? Are we on FIFA or something like that? No, I think you could just put him on that right-hand side on either or.

I'll bet, yeah. Because who are the... I think Cristiano Ronaldo, 7 or 8, the Ballon d'Or season. What about Beckham? Probably, then you've got David Beckham. I'd say the way that he gets in over Ronaldo is just the fact that this is his eighth season of that relentless consistency and the output as well. His output's better than Beckham's and he also played in whatever way Liverpool needed him to play. But the output's going to be...

better for a player that's in a front three rather than being in a traditional 4-4-2 where they've got a track back, they've got a goal forward.

So it's a different role, isn't it? But then you could also say that in Salah's defence, you could say he's had to play quite far out wide in a lot of those seasons to suit the team. He's had to drop deep to pick up the ball for Liverpool a lot of the times that they play. So just because he's a right winger on paper, he's not necessarily played that far. Salah's responsibility is to score goals, whereas David Beckham's responsibility was to create goals. I mean, Salah's five assists away from David Beckham, so he

He can also create goals too. And he was also creating so many opportunities for Darwin Nunes in the last couple of seasons that weren't even put away. I think it's fair. Mo Salah's incredible, but I would still... That one season of Cristiano... I think David Beckham's amazing, my favourite player of all time. But that one season of Cristiano Ronaldo, 42 goals, Ballon d'Or, Champions League, Premier League...

I think if I was going to do an 11, it'd be Cristiano Ronaldo on the right. Salah got 40 for the season. Yeah, I know. He's an amazing player. I like Mo Salah. I think people do overlook him a little bit sometimes in terms of when they're talking about greats and even when they're talking about... He wasn't even in Ballon d'Or. It's ridiculous. But I would sway towards Ryan. You're just like...

Do you agree? He's just thinking about when Salah played for them. What might have been. What might have been. If you look at the longevity of Salah, I think that's one of the biggest arguments. The amount of years that he's done at top levels, no denying, Ronaldo was unbelievable that season. And maybe United just missed out on his peak, I would say, possibly, because Real Madrid was a different animal. So I think if United had him for those years as well, I think he's a cert to go in. But I think with the longevity, like you said, and the amount of

The constant years he's done it, the last eight seasons with the numbers he's put up, I think it's... He's evolved as well. He's evolved, he's adapted. When he first came in, he scored 44 goals in his debut season for Liverpool. A lot of those goals are based on pace,

Now, obviously, he's 32. He's still pacey, but he's not as pacey. But he's stronger now. And Liverpool's out-ball all the time is... He's literally putting his hand up to a goalie and saying, put it here, and no-one can get me off the ball. Like, his strength is unbelievable. And he's built his assist game as well. You're right to mention assists. Everyone thinks of him as a goalscorer. He's creating a lot of goals now as well. And this is why I just think it's absolute nonsense that we haven't tied him down to a new deal. Like...

If we gave him £400,000 a week, two-year deal, that's £41 million. Who are you getting better for £41 million than Mo Salah? Would you be gutted if he went next? Absolutely gutted. He is a Liverpool legend and that's not overstating it. He's the fifth top scorer in the history of Liverpool Football Club. He's only seven behind Billy Liddle. Now, anyone who knows their history will know Billy Liddle was so good that they called Liverpool Liddlepool when he played for them.

And Mo Salah is going to surpass him. He's going to get at least a fourth. He could get third. And Salah's probably thinking, I can get Rush, which he's not going to get, because Rush has 346 goals, and he's 2-2-1 currently. Is he a tapping in Liverpool's all-time 11, Salah? Because I know you've had some greats in it. Yeah, I think you've just got to do some manipulation, haven't you, and move positions around and all that. You get them in there, though, 100%. If you have to keep only one of them...

Van Dijk, Trent or Salah, which one are you keeping? Trent, surely. He's the younger one, isn't he? He's the last one. Yeah, I'd say he was the last one now, to be honest with you. I'd put Salah top because I just think he's the gold. He's the sprinkle of dust that you put on that wins you so many games. That makes us special. Van Dijk, I absolutely love. I think his form's come back to what it was. Trent, from what I see, I think Trent's gone, personally. I think he's definitely going to go. I think Real Madrid...

More than likely, mate, yeah. But I just think they need to get Salah done because people keep talking about Saudi Arabia as though it's nailed on, he ends up there. I just don't see it because he's such a competitive man. He wants to break every record, he wants to win every trophy. And if he goes and plays in a pub league in the desert, who cares? But, you know, like, if Liverpool let him go, if Liverpool don't do the deal, he could go and play for anyone else in Europe as far as I'm concerned. How old is he?

32. He could still play for two more years and go in two years. And Lewandowski's playing at 36 and scoring 19 and 17 this season. Also, look at the season he's having. It's not like he's struggling this year, is it? He's in the form of his life. He's the only player in the top five leagues in Europe to have 10 goals and 10 assists. Yeah, that's crazy.

Incredible player. Niamh, great way to kick us off. Well done. Brian, let's go to you because you were confident before we got started. What's your hot take? I'm so confident. Dwight McNeil deserves an England call-up.

You take him to Tobey Calvary to celebrate? Yeah. As soon as he gets that call up, you can come if you want. Who are you taking out of the England squad then? It's not who I'm taking out. I just think he deserves a shot. He's got three goals, three assists for Everton. He's created the most big chances. The quality of the team is amazing and I support the lads. But you look at the likes of who he's competing against, Cole Palmer, Phil Foden, but look at who they're surrounded by.

The quality they're surrounded by in the team. It's a team game. You put Dwight McNeil in there, if he's competing with them now, if you put them in their squad, he does the exact same, but even more. I'm with you. I like the cut of your jib. After this, me and him are going to go for a Nando's. Yeah, you two are really good at it, aren't you? I can see this friendship. I love him. I just love him. I'll see you on the M57 for a cuddle. I'm up for services. Very nice. But do you think you should go to the World Cup then?

He's obviously just missed this international big by not being picked. He deserves a shot. No matter where that is, what competition it is, he deserves a shot. And I want to know everyone's opinion here.

Do you disagree with me? I think you're right. Do you? I mean, I don't care about England, but I think you're right. Thank you, because he's performing. He's just not going to get in, though. That's the problem. Why? Just because of the depth of quality up top. It's so hard. It's so hard, yeah, especially in that number 10 role that he's recently moved into for Everton, but he's performing. But you've got better players than Dwight McNeil not getting in the squad, haven't you? Who? James Madison.

Gibbs White's better as well nah Gibbs White's and he's part of that England self but Neil was underrated severely I think but

but is he just... Would he not be chip-trick as a winger, though, anyway? I know he's playing the 10 now, but is that still not his... I personally think he's better as the number 10 instead of the left mid or left wing, but I think he deserves a shot. What is it about Dwight McNeil that is so good, what's really impressed you? From the minute he went from left wing to in the 10, and people might watch this and go, you're biased, you're made to them, but you watch the transition of the team.

From him being on the half 10 to pushing forward, especially with Illy going in his role that he was playing.

it's just so nice to watch, especially as an Evertonian. When he gets the ball, he always looks forward, but he also adds that control and stability as a 10. I like it. Do you think if he was playing for a different team, he'd be in the Englands? You were about to say bigger, weren't you? Was you about to say bigger? Whoa. Well, like I said before, in stats, he's getting compared to Cole Palmer, creating most biggest chances, and then Zach, not Zach, Phil Foden in the number 10 role. So,

So if he was higher in the table in a team that's performing better than Everton... But he doesn't get in a team higher in the table. That's why he's at Everton. That's why he's at Everton, yeah. That's just not nice to say, is it? I'm actually really sorry. I like you so much. I apologise. I just think if he's doing it at us, he could easily do it at another club surrounded by more talent.

Let's stay with Merseyside then. Gareth, what have you got for us? My hot take is that Liverpool could freeze ticket prices and season tickets for the next five years and still win the Premier League in every one of those five years. What do you mean by that? So what I mean is, I think there's an element of we're being slightly...

gaslighted almost by our clubs a little bit in the league that they need to put up the prices every single season and this season every club by Crystal Palace put the prices up at my club it's the second season running that they put the prices up they don't need to do that it's the richest league in the world the TV deals unbelievable the sponsorship deals are unbelievable Liverpool's just had a year of record revenue from deals off the pitch nothing to do with fans and

so reward that like let us be part of it like we're here being passionate fans turning up week in week out going away from home doing whatever

stop ripping us off, stop exploiting our loyalty. And I'm talking about Liverpool here, but I think pretty much every club in the league could do it. I don't even know if that's a hot take because I think everyone agrees with you. It's a great opportunity to say it on this platform though. It's a really good idea to bring it up because it's so true. It's such a valiant thing to say. And you're absolutely right. I think there's an epidemic of...

greed sweeping the Premier League. It was very noteworthy what Aston Villa did in their Champions League games. People were aware of that. But it's happening everywhere. Like Chelsea created a £5,000 ticket for one match.

It's disgusting. It's genuinely disgusting. Working class can not afford that physically. I think it's brilliant to bring it up even if it isn't about taking. It's symptomatic of why the atmosphere in the Premier League is insipid. It's becoming more and more so every season. It's because fans certainly at Spurs you're paying some of the most expensive tickets in Europe and

And you returned with... What comes with that is a level of expectation. And so the atmosphere is completely flat and pretty much across the board, apart from Palace, I would say. But the Premier League would probably have the most sanitised top division in Europe, wouldn't it, in terms of atmosphere? In terms of, like, tribal, partisan, loyal support, which is why... One of the reasons why the Premier League was so popular around the world, because of what you would see on the...

on the terraces because of the noise that was... Do you think a good idea, a good middle ground for the Premier League clubs to maintain that sort of hospitality section is if those cherished terrace stands up and down the country, like the Gallagate, like the Holmesdale, like the Copp,

Stretford End, if those sections, we prioritised the local supporters and we gave them discounted access to that stand, exclusive access to that stand, with the sole intention to create an atmosphere and ensure that you can grow up and go and actually watch the team that you support. The pricing the young kids are as well, though. Exactly. That's the lifeblood of the club, is people that are going to go for the next 40, 50 years. And I think...

The average age of crowds now has gone higher and higher. I do think the price of that... That is a worry, though. It's not just the prices going up. It's the targeting of concessions. It's the targeting of, you know, Nottingham Forest change their...

You can tell us before. Well, one thing I was going to say, and it is Forest have done this, is there's no season cards available. Because the clubs have realised your matchday fan who's going to go once a season buys a shirt, buys stuff in the ground, buys everything. And Forest charge £60 a ticket now at home for some games. £58, don't want to get it wrong.

And it is, it's disgraceful. And I've got friends that just cannot go anymore. And once you leave the system of buying tickets, you're not possible to get them again. And the excuse will be PSR and then we need a bigger stadium and we need this, that, the other. It doesn't sit right. Fans understand what's happening. And also away fans are so much better now. And it's no reason why it's 30 quid tickets now.

I had to stop going to away days with Bolton. I had to stop going at one point when I was a teenager because the concession for a lot of clubs from 18 onwards was just for students. So if you weren't a student but you were sort of 18 to 21 bracket, you paid an adult price, which I thought was really unfair. And I know Bright and Man City have done this. We've started to do it.

The way they're checking tickets now, if I can't make a game, I have to sell my seat back to the club. So they'll make their money again back at you. You can't just, what I used to do when I was a kid and how I got into Forest, not just my dad, but our neighbours couldn't go to a game, we'd get their tickets.

And that's how it worked. And now you cannot do that or she risks losing your ticket for life. And they're cutting out the tout by touting it themselves. It's hard because with success, that's coming because tourism and people want to go, especially Liverpool, with the success of the club, how many people want to watch you now? But it would be so easily solved. If the clubs wanted to solve this, this is so easy. You could... I mean, Niamh mentioned something there which would obviously help. I think something else that would massively help young people, making sure that they can afford it, but equally...

unreserved seats. So two of you can get tickets and be together in the stadium, which will obviously have an impact on the atmosphere. I think prioritising and supporting away support, like the louder the away support in a stadium, the better. The more away fans, the better. The louder the away support, the better the home support will therefore be off the reaction. But

it isn't in the interest of the clubs they don't care that's it there should be a want and a will for them to do this because there are hundreds of thousands of supporters who go year in year out whose dads went mums went whatever it's passed down generations those fans those most loyal fans are being priced out they're dropping off everyone in here will know someone who's an absolutely like unbelievable supporter of that club and they've just gone one year

They've got the renewal or they've looked at the tickets and they've gone, that's me out. And it's sad. That's so incredibly sad. I think COVID showed the clubs as well that they don't need their fans. You know, when the grounds were empty, I think they realised that we don't need fans. Like really and truly, like the 30,000, 40,000 that rock up every week.

It's the audience outside the stadium that we want to capture. But I'd argue that the only reason that people around the world want to watch the product that is the Premier League is because of the passion of the club. I agree with you. I'm saying how the club... The clubs are going to come unstuck as well because when there's an inevitable patch of downfall... There the people are going. The ground's going to be empty. You're going to go... We see that. Walls in the summer. You mentioned the ticket prices. They put kids...

and disabled prices of 200% in some areas, which is just unbelievable. We had to do a protest, got tens of thousands of signatures just for them to freeze that. When your uncles, grandparents, when they fall ill, pass away, can't go to the games, that's your next generation of fans. Are you pricing them out? And the most important part of all of this, which was the hot take that Robbo initially mentioned is,

Your belief is that Liverpool can win the league for five years without any extra money from the fans anyway. So it's all greed. It isn't essential. You know, sometimes you go to the football, if you support, I don't know, I've been to some non-league games. I've been to a Hampton and Richmond game. I've been to a Beaconsfield game. You kind of want to give them your money a bit. You kind of want to spend some money in there because they need it. It's the lifeblood of the club. They need the money. They need that little burst of cash. My 700 quid a year is completely insignificant to what Clear Lake and Todd Bowley want to do with Chelsea Football Club.

What do you think is a fair price? Well, we've got £30 for away tickets. Affordable. Make it that for the home tickets as well, because that only came about because supporters of all clubs put the rivalry aside, came together, protested, protested at the Premier League, protested to their own clubs, and eventually we got that cap. That's due for review next year, though, so we'll see what happens with that.

But, you know, I think if supporters did the same again over home tickets, something similar could be achieved again. But, you know, the people in the boardrooms, the people in the Premier League collectively don't want this conversation. But they should have the conversation. And, you know, we've seen banners up and down the country out every ground last few weeks saying stop exploiting loyalty, the Football Supporters Association campaign.

Anyone and everyone who loves football can get behind that. It's free to join that organisation. There's organisations like the one at Liverpool, Spirits of Shankly. There's other organisations at almost every Premier League club now because fans are having to fight back to stop, to almost tether the greed, if you like. That was a brilliant point. But I'm sure we're going to talk about it again. But Charlene, you've got to follow that. What have you got? Yes.

Do you know what? I feel like it's going to be quite difficult for Arsenal to close in and win the Premier League this season. But I think we're going to do the unthinkable and the unimaginable and we'll win the Champions League. Can we vote again?

I mean... Make history. That's a really hot take. Because Arsenal's team, when they're fully fit and they're fighting, is a brilliant team. But they've got a pitiful record in Europe. They're a three-pin plug in Europe. We know that they are completely ineffective in Europe. We've seen it for decades and decades. Going back to Alan Smith. What, Alan Smith-Palmer? And now they're going to somehow miraculously win the... To win the European Cup, it takes time. When we eventually won it in 2012...

We started that campaign in 1998, 1997, when Zola scored in the Resunda Stadium in Stockholm. Look, I hate it. I absolutely hate the idea of Arsenal winning the Champions League. But to say there was absolutely zero chance because they haven't done it before is a little bit foolhardy, in my opinion. It's the more chance of Villa winning it.

They've got much more chance of Villa winning it, yeah. Villa have got a better manager. Villa have got a better manager and pedigree in Europe. Come on, if you want to exchange... I'd rather Unai Emery be managing my team than... Don't you think winning the Champions League is also an element of luck, though? So it's just... You've got to have luck. Yeah, you do have to have a bit of luck as well. We do have good players, you know, like Gabby said as well, we've got our team back from injury. Yeah.

Betty, sorry, that is what I meant. Like Betty said as well, we've got our players returning back from injury. So we can focus our attention more in the Champions League. We've got off to a good start so far. You know, we only got that defeat against Inter Milan last

conceded our first cup. I love that. They lost their last game in Europe. To win a European Cup, the track record that has been set by most teams I can think of having won it. So, for example, Chelsea, we had to knock on the door for ages and ultimately in 2012 we got our reward. Look at what Manchester City had to go through. Semi-final after semi-final, some very uninspiring defeats. They went out to Tottenham one year, which was ridiculous. They went out to Lyon. They lost the final to us in Porto and then eventually they get over the line.

Arsenal need to do that journey. They need to almost... Yeah, but maybe their journey's different. Exactly. Why does it have to be your journey and Man City's journey? Why isn't it their own journey? No, it's the track record. It's the example. I haven't seen... Can you think of an example of somebody to win it out of the playoffs? And that's why there's a first for everything. Forrest. You know what I mean? You can't deny them their odds. There's a first for everything. Exactly. I think we are Aaron on it before. What's our wonder? You waved for Kop just before? Oh, you're right. I didn't point it. Another thing. Forrest.

Again. Forrest then won it the second year, didn't he? Aberdeen. You have to do the first year. Aberdeen.

I still don't see the world. Can Arteta hold his own in a final? I don't think Arsenal can do it. In a final, can he hold his own? Their heads just went in the Champions League. Arsenal have an inferiority complex where whoever they come up against, they feel inferior to them. And it's right, because they are. And they come up against Bayern Munich and they think they're going to lose. They think they're underdogs. You're going to lose. I don't think Arteta's got it either.

I don't think he's... He's the one. Yeah, a lot of people are ruling us out, which is why we need to prove yous lot wrong. Niamh, what do you think? Can Mikel Arteta lead Arsenal to the Champions League trophy? I think when we've seen Arsenal come up against sides like Inter, sides like Gasparini's Atalanta, even the Premier League, Newcastle, well-drilled, disciplined sides...

I'm worried about Arsenal. How do they creatively score goals and break those rigid blocks? How do they do that? I don't think they've got the attack

capable to come up against the really well-coached sides, personally. I agree. Not that they can't do it. I just think there's quite a number of strongly coached teams in Europe at the moment. And there's maybe not a standout Champions League team, but there's a lot of very good Champions League teams that could win it Inter, Liverpool, Barcelona, Juventus, Man City. Eventually Madrid will click as well, I think. Yeah. I think eventually they will click. OK. OK.

Interesting one. I like what you were doing. We applaud it. Dave, what's your take? Mine is that I think Matthias Cunha could walk into any Premier League side. I don't hate that either. I think that's a really good point. He could start for any Premier League side. I think in terms of consistently for the past two seasons in terms of numbers as well, this season already top three for big chances created.

Since the start of last season, only Haaland's got more goals away from home. I think including the last two seasons, goal contributions, it's only the elite players, I'm talking Salah, Palmer, Saka ahead of him. So I think, you know, in terms of numbers, for a team that, for Wolves, especially so far this season, struggling, I think he'd walk in and be an asset to anybody. Talk us how he's going to walk into this City team.

I think in terms of the players that he's got there, I mean, in terms of like the role Alvarez had for you guys last season, I think he could walk in it. He could probably get that role. I don't think he's getting a start at 11, is he? So in terms of like your attacking four at the moment, say, or a striker, wingers and the player behind, who's starting for City at the moment?

Well, we've got Savino's... I think he could... He has a chance there, but he's not starting every game. He's not near half. I mean, City's obviously always... And Chelsea would be a trigger just because of the pure amount of attackers in there. But I think... We've got Nunes on the wing at the moment. I think Nunes is awful. Nunes is so overrated as well. So I think he'd walk in ahead of Nunes as well. I think he'd get in over Nunes. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, the fact we've got Nunes on the wing says a lot about our

current... I think the flexibility, he can play as a number nine, albeit not brilliant, a bit deeper as a number ten in a free roll, could play off the left, probably play off the right. I think his quality and ability on the ball, he's now getting the final product in terms of goals and assists, which is even something Neto struggled with at times at Wolves as well. I

I think he's, you know, this is his second full season in the Premier League and he's really kicking on. If there's people knocking on the door in January or even next summer for big money, I really wouldn't be surprised. Luke, you started by laughing at this, but has he managed to talk you over? When he said any Premier League team, he's not getting... I don't think he's getting a Liverpool's team and I don't think he's getting a City's team. And I'd question whether he gets a Chelsea's team.

I think in Liverpool... To say if it was adjusted to most teams, I'd say, you know... But in terms of quality, I think he's like toe-to-toe even with some of Liverpool's attackers. I think he could feature for us, certainly. Feature though and get in the starting XI is quite a jump, isn't it? No, but they're going to start some... You don't start every player every game, right?

Be honest with me. It's a hot topic, not a base topic. You've got to go bold. You've got to go bold. Lee, give us your Geordie take. I said this a couple of months ago. So, on a technicality, Europa will be granted England another European players for the Champions League. So five teams will qualify this time.

Newcastle will be one of them finishing fifth because we'll go and invest in January. Niamh you're nodding. Actually I had Newcastle fifth at the start of the season so I've got penalties for that but do you know what I think it is? I think Newcastle have got the most balanced team in the Premier League in terms of pure balance when

When you've got the mixture, that midfield, I think, really sums up what Newcastle are all about with Tenali, Grimoire, but then Longstaff and Willock. They've got that good blend of tenacity, but also talent. And Gordon playing on the right as well, he's been brilliant. And they just know each other's roles really well. I would probably want a permanent signing there, so I want Brian and Ben, or even someone like Semenya from Bournemouth. I think we need another winger because...

Murphy and Almiron are just off the bench they're just not cutting it so we can strengthen in January I think it's half the panel yeah we'll see that fifth place possibly fourth is up for grabs Smenyo's brilliant as well good player he's so underrated so powerful quick scores goals does anyone disagree? go on then Adam you're going to say it's mad I just don't think they finished top five

Where do you think they'll finish? I think Eddie Howe's more likely to be gone by the end of the season. Really? Really? People are saying that about him. All the backup staff that were there that liked him have gone. And like you said earlier, if they don't get Europe, you can see them looking to make a change. You even suggested that. So I think they could be looking to make a change. There is a weird sort of relationship with Paul Mitchell as well. And Paul Mitchell's quite a dominant, you know, sort of... That's why January's key. He's got to be backed. Yeah.

Yeah, because he said that Eddie Howe doesn't have the gravitas to pull in players. That was something that was in print. That's a mental thing to say about a manager. Yeah, and the pursuit of just one player only, where Paul Mitchell come out and said that we'll have to get Mark Ahear, no one. I question that a little bit, but we've got to go and get a winger.

Interesting. Who do you want? Brian Mbwemo. Mbwemo and also... Look at his stats. I think it's something like eight goals already this season. Brentford aren't even missing Ivan Toney. So if we can, you know, I think he's only got 18 months left on his deal. So the perfect time to get him is January. I think Brentford will let him go. Especially without having Tony there as well. We've got the money from Gahill, so we definitely know that there's 70 million there. I don't know how much it'll cost him, but I think 50 million upwards gets you Brian Mbwemo, 100%.

Greg, last time you said that the Anfield atmosphere was a myth. What have you got for us this time? It's about the international breaks. I think we've only played... By November the 23rd, we'd have played 11 games and then there's 11 more for the next month and a half. So for me, my hot take would be chuck them all into a three-week period, get them out of the way and leave the season to continue because the stop starting is just horrendous. So...

can them or put them all in one little block and get them out of the way. Does anyone disagree with that? No, I think you just get rid of all of them. Does that not reduce the chance of different players getting call-ups? Because a lot of international football is about timing and form and

If you aren't good in that three weeks, you suddenly just maybe don't get an opportunity outside of tournaments to play for England. To be honest, I almost wish I'd said just can the Nations League because I just don't see the point in it at all. It's great that Gibbs White's got a call-up. It's great that Murillo's got a call-up. But there's no tournament until next summer. March is the next time I think they're going to have them. And

This stop-start, it does cause injuries. They're playing with different players, different styles. The injuries happen. They come back. There's even like Mansfield Town in League 2, they've got the game postponed this weekend because of international call-ups. It's crazy. It's just too much. From an international manager, you want a system in place and a group of players that you know can play that system. So just chucking form players in isn't necessarily the...

The best way, I'd imagine, the best way to win a tournament. More just, I mean, getting new players in the camp to see what they're all about in the England set-up. It just means that you can extend it. And don't you think it's quite an English point of view in the sense that perhaps as English supporters we don't seem to value these international breaks, but other countries do really value them. Do they value them in any way?

I mean, more from the player perspective, I think maybe we underestimate how much the players enjoy having the chance to go back to the national team set-ups as well. This time a few years ago, there was 14 games played by this time of the season. And I don't think...

It's benefited the international sides or the club sides by doing it this way. Everyone's pulled out anyway. There's eight Englands. Yeah, there's eight Englands. That's more because of Tusha. And your guys still ain't got it. If Tusha was there, no one would have pulled out. You didn't have to leave that dig. No. You didn't have to leave that dig yet.

It took ten seconds to just sit with me like that. Okay, so no one disagrees. Everyone agrees, right? No, like Niamh was saying, about like, if you do it in a block and then the only next time the players are together is a tournament, that opportunity to see new people. How often do they actually experiment?

We never experiment. Gareth Southgate had the Nations League and he just played the same team every week. No, but it's like Lewis Hall, for example, because he's been so great for Newcastle, it's a great time to get him in straight away, get him into the camp.

instead of just waiting. But it doesn't matter that they're good now. They need to be good in April, May. Yeah, they will be, but they might not have been good at the... Don't you think how different sometimes those conversations on who should make the squads for Euros and the World Cup next, the fact that those players below the 11, it always changes. It's because there's a constant revolving door of talent. Because Shaw's not going to be fit. We can't rely on him at all. He'll be fit for England, don't worry about that. F***!

But you can't rely on him, and Hall needs to be his replacement, I think. So to get him in now and play him is... Yeah, spedding him in. Also gives, like, Solanke a chance. It's just too much. Like, three times already, it's too much. Did you not see his delicious dink? Did you see that? His what? Delicious dink against... Was it Villa? I think it's for them...

It's also, if you had it in that block of three weeks as well, you can actually give clubs a winter break. If they want to jet off to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, whatever they want, they can take the players that haven't been called up to just relax. I think that'll be a great opportunity for clubs just to have that, because everyone cries on winter break, winter break, winter break all the time that we're playing all these games every three days, especially December. Come December, I think you play something like six or seven Premier League games, so that'd be a great opportunity for clubs to get away and spend a week or two abroad, take the misses if they want.

Take the wags. Fair enough. Niamh, at the start, we said that you were a Bolton fan, but you're also a massive Napoli fan, aren't you? Can you give us three players in Serie A that everyone should be talking about right now? Well, Lubotka, for one, at Napoli, midfielder. He is top three in his position in Europe, and yet I imagine not many people have watched him that often, which really frustrates me. I think that's just maybe down to the vaccine.

If he was called Stanley LeBotsmith, do you see what I'm saying? I think he would have been in the Premier League, had a huge move. He's brilliant. I would say Reinders at the moment, to Gianni Reinders at AC Milan. He's superb. And then possibly... Why is he superb? Sorry, what? He's superb because...

I think AC Milan, the team around him, hasn't been the most consistent, but he's everything you want in a midfielder. Works hard off the ball, up, down, up, down, up the pitch, but he's super creative as well. And then, DeMarco.

left wing back, just absolutely world class, so good. And I gave credit to Bastoni recently, who plays the left centre-back role next to him, and for good reason. But also, Di Marco got probably one of the best left-foots in world football. His deliveries into the box are just superb. No Scott McTominay now. Do you know, well, finally a club knows how to use Scott McTominay. Yeah, get rid of him. Look at the rewards. Don't tell us we're wrong to get rid of him. I'm not saying

I'm not saying you're wrong to get rid of him because you'd have never used him properly. For a reason, though, I don't think he's good enough. Didn't know what you were doing.

Just didn't know what to do. Just got to take him then. Are you surprised to see him doing so well in Napoli, though? No, because I think players go to Italy and Chris Smalling looked like Maldini over there and Lukaku bangs goals in every week. I don't want them back at Manchester United just as much as I don't want Tomane back. Does a part of you wish that Manchester United used him properly? No. We used him too much. There's a team of players that do well outside of Manchester United and not well at Manchester United. I'm not just talking about Serie A players. For me, him doing well at Napoli doesn't mean we made a mistake in selling him. Like,

It was the right decision. He hid from the ball far too much. Maybe it was because we misprofiled him or whatever. But I just thought when he played in midfield, he was always shy out of the tackle. He was always hiding, never showing for the ball. Yeah, he scored a few goals, but I think he was one of the big issues in terms of our midfield. I just don't think he's good enough. OK, does anyone else have anything they want to add? Anything to get off the... Go on, Robbie. Just very quickly, Chelsea finish above Arsenal this season.

Listen, you're currently above us now, let's see. Just remember, we're level on points. Exactly. And how long are you going to stay in this good runner form? It's not really about us, it's what's happening to you. It's Arteta losing the plot. Arteta ain't lost the plot. It's based on us doing quite well, but them capitulating. Now listen, we've been faced with injuries, that's what's hit us hard. Now we've got our players back, let's see where we finish. I think Chelsea could win the Prem next season. I think yous are going to be a team to be reckoned with, like...

That manager, he's serious. Have you got a dressing room big enough for the players? We've got two. That's why Enzo Vareska's doing so well, though, because he's managing all of those players that he's got. He's got two teams. You see it in the Conference League. There's two teams there. But you've got 45. That's 40, if you think about it. And he actually said, when I was thinking, maybe he's the right manager...

When he said, I've got 22 players. There might be 45 there, but these are my... I don't want the press to get it twisted up that I don't know what my best 22 players are. And so those other players who are not involved, it's their problem. And you kind of have to do that because Pochettino got it wrong. Remember last season when he didn't know who Melang Sarr was despite playing him? Yeah. You can't keep across 45. You have to know who your team actually is. Yeah, yeah.

OK, well, guys, thank you so much. I enjoyed that. Thank you very much. That is it for another episode of The Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. We will see you soon.

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