Liverpool Favourites? Amorim Era Begins & Can Spurs Win A Trophy | The Overlap Fan Debate
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I am just so loyal to my club. Whoever's wearing that badge, I just back until the end and until they leave that club. Then you boo them. You're the most positive Everton fan I think I've ever met. You should have said imposter Coghlan. Imposter Coghlan. Imposter Coghlan. How did I say that? It was really brought in there to protect United and...

Oh, you shut up. I'm usually in that relegation corner. Nah, he's in the relegation corner. I won't call this the relegation corner. Last season, mate, we were playing school kids and winning court. Oh, here we go. It's gone from Metallica to, like, Randy and Monica. Oh, what? People compare Mikel Arteta to Pepelec, but the forget he was also coached by David Moyes. Yeah. He's got more of you than I do. Yeah.

and welcome to the Fan Debate brought to you by Skybet. I know what you're all thinking. Wow, Jamie Carragher and Scolzi have had a good glow up. But they're away this week. So you've got me, Bessie Glover, but we've got you covered because we have got Mark Critchley from The Athletic as well as all of the fans in the room. So we're going to get into their brains in a second. But Mark, I just want to start with you first. Has anything particularly surprised you about this season? I would say...

And Arsenal and City not being right at the top of the tree. I think that is the most surprising element. I think it's actually, speaking as a neutral journalist, of course, it's actually one of the more enjoyable elements of it as well. And I'm supposed to cover City, so I probably shouldn't be saying that, actually. But I just felt like everybody came into this year thinking that

that would be the top two. That would be the duopoly. We would expect them to leave from the front right away, but that hasn't been the case. And it feels like, you know, we haven't had, I don't think, a season where the title winner has had more than 85, less than 85 points since Leicester in 2016.

And it just feels like this could be the season. I know Liverpool are keeping that pace at the moment as well, but it feels like this could be a season where that bar is lowered a little bit and it's just a bit more competitive and it's just a bit more enjoyable, to be honest. Our City fan, Luke, is making his debut today and he is looking at you. He's scowling. I was scouting him out already. He's got my number already. Are you feeling OK, Luke? Before the last 10 days, to be honest, yeah, I was feeling all right up until we lost, obviously, to under-balancing the league. Yeah.

But for me, Liverpool being five points ahead of us is a bit of a worry. To be fair, I saw them at the start of the season as more of a concern than Arsenal. A lot of people wouldn't have said that, but I just think everyone kind of thought slot coming in. Everyone just instantly kind of rejected the idea of him getting anywhere near the top. They might get top four or whatever, but for me, Liverpool are the biggest threat. We've got to play them twice, so it's still in our hands even though we're five points off them. It's going to be a tough one. It's not been the best of starts given the last two games, really.

OK, well, we're going to get stuck into all of this in a moment. But first, we've got the quiz, haven't we? Our new feature is called Time Added On. Here is how it is going to work. Then each week, one fan is going to take the quiz with their total score being added to that leaderboard right over there. And a mystery prize is up for grabs. Whoever wins the quiz or whoever gets the highest score at the end of the season. Now, Rory, you did it last time, didn't you? Were you happy? Because I watched it. You did a solid job.

That's solid. I think there were a couple that I could have got right that I actually got wrong and I'm worried. It feels like a very beatable tally and I don't really care who beats me as long as Adam McCullough doesn't and I think he's up to that. Adam McCullough's looking really confident. I'm not feeling it. Are you not? I hate things like this. She'll ask me who was our manager when we last won the league and I'll just go blank. It's just one of those. Once you get put under pressure, it's...

Quite a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, so get ready. Get yourself warmed up.

Make sure you're calm. Do some deep breaths because you're taking on the challenge this week, right? So you've got 90 seconds with a maximum of 15 questions in that time. All questions obviously going to be club specific to Manchester United. If I'm mid question when the time runs out, you know, the drill, I'll finish the question and we'll take your answer. You can pass any question that you don't know. Does it sound good? Yep. Ready? Okay. So Mark, you're going to be timing this. Ready. Okay.

Time's going to start on my first question. OK, shall I do a countdown in? Yeah, go on. OK, that'll work. Three, two, one, let's go. Which pundit famously said you can't win anything with kids? How many goals did Zlatan Ibrahimović score for the club, 20, 29 or 44? 29. Correct. Who was Fergie's most expensive signing for United? Most expensive? This is quite an obvious one. Dimitar Berbatov.

No. At five, Dutchman with Van in their name have played for Manchester United in the Premier League. Name at least four of them. Van der Sar, Van Nistelrooy, Van Persie, Van der Haal.

Yeah, nice. Finish the chant when they're playing in this town. Get yourself to the football ground. Take a lesson, you will see. Football taught by Matt Cogby. Which Italian scored a winner against Aston Villa on his first team debut? Kiko Makeda. Yeah, nice. Ashley Cole reportedly hit Sir Alex Ferguson with what type of food after a tunnel issue? It wasn't Ashley Cole, it was Cesc Fabregas and it was pizza. Who is the youngest player to appear for Manchester United in the Premier League? Youngest player...

Kiko Mikaela. Wrong. Wayne Rooney scored a hat-trick on his debut for the club in 2004 against which Turkish side? Fenerbahce. Nice. Which Yorkshire club beat them in their very first Premier League game in August 1992? Sheffield Wednesday. No, wrong, United. Which Swedish international played 13 games for the club from January to March 2007?

Henry Larkin. Full time. There you go. We didn't have a whistle, so I had to do that for some reason. How do you think you did? I'm hoping I matched Rory at least. They're doing the count now. But I think you were quite confident. You were quick. Who was the youngest player to play for us? Wellbach. I know that. I think. Say that again, sorry. I think I know. It's Angel Gomez. Yeah, that's right. He was 16 years old. Eight months and 20 days. Yeah, Jose Mourinho.

OK, so I've got the score. I can confirm you've scored eight. Oh! I'll take that. Are you happy with that? I'll take it, absolutely. Even though I corrected one of your questions, I should get an extra one for that, innit? What's that? Alphabetical order, I'm on top, by the way. No. Yeah. You've got to whack it on, Mark. Oh!

Mark's been here for two minutes and he's destroying the studio. Come on, Mark. OK, look. Are you going to help? There we go. I'll just pick these up. I don't know which fan's next, but does anyone back themselves to be able to beat that score? No. No? That's the spirit. No, no, I won't. Did you think those questions were hard? No. No, yeah, they were all right, weren't they? They were all right, yeah. Yeah, you did well. I think congratulations. Everyone give them a round of applause, please.

Okay, so after all of that quiz fun, everyone can just take a second and regain their composure. But let's talk about Manchester United. We've got to, haven't we, Mark? Because Ruben Amorim is going to be taking charge of his first game. It's going to be against Ipswich. You have covered this story quite extensively for The Athletic, haven't you? Tell us a little bit about him. I don't know if there's anything new left to say, to be honest. It feels like it's all that we've spoken and written about for weeks and weeks now. But...

Look, you know the basics, right? He's coming over from Sporting, two Portuguese titles over there, 2021-2024. He is one of the most highly rated young managers in Europe. He only turns 40 in January. When he joined Sporting, they paid 10 million euro for him, which was like the third most, highest compensation fee for a manager behind Sporting.

Brendan Rodgers and Andre Villas-Boas, which maybe isn't a ringing endorsement, I guess, but we'll go with it for now. Yeah, look, he's extremely highly rated, and I think that he's...

There are question marks still. You know, you look at the level of the Portuguese league, I think it's a league that, you know, you've got the top three and they're Champions League standard teams. But then when you go below that, it's more like Championship, to be honest, and towards the bottom, it's League One. They beat City, though, so I mean... Well, they beat City and I think everyone's... Anyone who watched that performance couldn't come away unimpressed, right? It was brilliant. But there are some little question marks like that around it and we kind of have been here before, right? I mean...

I think United fans are all a little bit wary of the fact that when Ten Hag came, we all expected, right, we finally got a proper manager, we finally got a proper coach, someone who knows what they're doing. And look how that turned out. But, you know, when you speak to people speaking around it, covering the story of the last few weeks...

the consensus is that he's ready to make that step and, you know, we'll see how he does first game against Ipswich. When you watch his press conferences and obviously he, when he arrived at Carrington, he did that video, et cetera. He seems like a really nice down to earth, normal guy. Like he's playing the media role really well at the moment. What was he like?

Well, like one of the advantages of it taking so long for him to actually start his job is that we've been had this time to go into like serious depth and find out more about him. And I was asked to do a piece a few weeks ago about this internship that he did at United under under Jose Mourinho. So went digging through Instagram and Facebook and Twitter and whatever and found these people who'd been there with him on this course that he was doing at the University of Lisbon. That was what the internship was through.

And the one word that they all used when you spoke to him was humble. And when they used that word, I was like, wait a minute, isn't this the guy that's getting taught by Jose Mourinho here? That doesn't seem to make sense. But he actually, you know, he is a humble guy. He is down to earth. He is, you know, they would expect, on this course, he was the one guy who was an ex-pro. He was the one person who had international experience.

They all expected him to be coming up in a Maserati and a Ferrari and a Bugatti. He was turning up in a smart car every day, right? He was...

He wanted to project himself as a very humble, very down-to-earth guy, but he is just a very charismatic, great communicator. And I think you can see that, like you say, in his press conferences. And then he did the internship himself. He went into United. He made a real impression on Mourinho. He was constantly pulling him aside, having little private chats with him. He knew...

Lindelof and Matic, who were there at the time from his days playing with him at Benfica. So he was having, you know, lunch with them. Mourinho was actually inviting him down to his private room at Juan Mata's tapas restaurant on Deansgate and watching the Champions League together and over-ordering dessert. So, you know, they built up this real special bond. But I think he's a bit, you know, I think he's a...

they all saw real talent in him. They all really wanted to align themselves to him, listen to what he had to say. And he just seems like a, you know, he's a really talented coach. Mikola, what are your thoughts? Are you happy? Are you excited? No question about it. I'm ready to get hurt again. I'm there. Sitting rock up to Carrington and among Claire and I just thought, this is the guy, I think. But on a serious note, I'm...

I am excited for it, but we've also, like, when Eric Ten Haag came in, he was the next big thing. He was this guy that had built this great team at Ajax and he was going to come and smash it at Manchester United. And then once they get into the Manchester United job...

The pressure builds, the media treat them differently. You get all this kind of pressure that's building for them. And it can be difficult for them to remain themselves and stick to their guns. And I think that's what happened with Eric Ten Hag. I think he kind of lost his way a little bit. We didn't kind of have any identity. He didn't maintain maybe his philosophy and his ideas. And that's why I hope that when Ruben Amrim comes in, whilst I think he'll adapt,

And he's young enough to be able to adapt. He's still learning the game and stuff like that. I do want him to be himself. I've seen a lot of people talking about, will he keep his back three? Will he do this? Will he do that? We brought him in for a reason. So let him continue to do what's brought him here. So would you be disappointed then if United rock up to that game against Slipswitch and he hasn't got them in a 3-4-3 for me? I wouldn't be disappointed because obviously he would have judged the team and based his judgment on that. But...

At the same time, I want him to be himself. I want him to play his game. I don't want him to adapt too much or think, oh, Manchester United can't play a back three because they've never done it before. It's time to adapt and be yourself. So I want him to do that. But I think you guys mentioned the media and how he handles them. And I think that's massively important. When you're managing a club like Manchester United or Liverpool or whoever, you have to be statesman-like. You have to almost be like a politician and control the fan base and control the players through the medium of the media. So...

I'm hoping he can maintain that. And there's a few things like, I like the way he dealt with that annoying journalist trying to make him speak Portuguese and all this. You rock up to Portugal to speak to a Portuguese fellow who's managing a Portuguese team and you want him to speak English, like chill out a little bit. I like how he dealt with that. So I do hope he can stay himself and, you know, continue. Go on, what you want to say?

Well, you mentioned the fact that one of the biggest takeaways from the digging that you did was to be humble. But I can't think of a successful Premier League manager that you could have touched to being humble as a key attribute. I think humble with your team is different to being...

you know, being a little bit brash and being a little bit forward with the press. As a Man United manager, you always need a psychopath, not a... I mean, the psychopaths haven't worked. You know what I mean? The psychopaths haven't worked. And I think he looks a little bit more personable. I like him. A little bit more... You worry he'll lack that edge then?

Is that it? Yeah, that's what I would assume. It's such a massive job and there's so many eyes on it. Because he's personable, it doesn't mean he doesn't have that edge. He might do. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean he doesn't have that. He learnt from Mourinho, so he's going to have some sort of edge, isn't he? Yeah, let's hope he didn't learn too much from Mourinho, though, and start just calling us all crap and telling us it's all our fault once he arrives. The thing is, United have gone through this kind of cycle with these managers. I totally respect what you're saying. When they said humble, I was like, is that actually a good thing? Right?

But United go through this cycle where you have a character like Mourinho and things become toxic and it doesn't work like you're saying, Adam. And then you flip it, you go Solskjaer, everyone's happy, you know, all these at the wheel, win back-to-back games, whatever, because it's a change of approach. I think in the end what you actually need is somebody who's able to blend the two. And to be honest, I think...

when people were saying to me he's humble they were talking about his dealings with people around him his fellow coaches if he's in a situation where he's got to discipline a squad he's going to do it and he needs to do it because ultimately that's the authority of the position I think he's also quite young in that he's played football really recently so he knows the

The pressures of the modern day game and what players have to deal with. I think some of the managers that we've had are maybe detached from that because they've been in the game so long and they've got their own ways, the Van Aals, Mourinho's of this world. I feel like he's a little bit more connected to the modern day footballer, which might help him as well. But I'm just guessing these things. I'm waiting for him to wow me, but yeah, I can't wait. It looks to business. How easy is it going to be for United to go from a back four to a back three?

I mean, I think, I feel like we're kind of prepared for it in the summer because we overloaded with centre-backs. We brought in De Ligt, we brought in Lenny Yarrow. Obviously, we've got Lissandro Martinez, who I think is ideal for the left centre-back role. I don't rate him and I think his future lies away from Manchester United, but I think Harry Maguire could suit the back three as well. So I do think we've got the centre-backs that could do that. The one position that I'm unsure of is the wing-back position. Like, I think Masraoui could do it.

Can Deleuze do it? Can Luke Shaw be asked to get fit and do it? Can those players do it? I'm not too sure. Will we see him try and use Garnaccio in that position, drop him deep a little bit? So it'll be interesting to see what wingbacks that we bring in. But I do think we've got... I'm seeing people go, we need to sign him, we need to sign him.

We've got a decent squad here. The last thing I want us to do, whilst we need to make a few signings, the last thing I think we need to do is make wholesale changes. And I think there's so much more to come out of this squad that we've got here. And I'm excited to see what he can do with that. Also, you look at our academy. At the moment, we've got a lot of good young talent coming through the academy at the 18s and 23 level. Even at the left-back position where we're missing a lot, you've got the likes of Harry Amas coming through, just signed Chido Obimartin. We've got a lot of talent coming through that academy and he's very good at

developing younger players, bringing them through. So I'm hoping within, obviously, right now it's all about getting results. So maybe you won't see too many young players, but eventually I think we'll start to see some academy players come in, which Man United fans always like.

Just quickly, are you over the fact that Ruud's left? Where do you stand? It was the right decision. Was it? It hurt a little bit. I love Ruud van Nistelrooy and he'll always be a legend of Manchester United. But the last thing you want him to do and you want Ruben Amrim to do is be forced to keep someone in his team that he doesn't want to keep there. Also, Ruud van Nistelrooy has dreams and desires of his own to be a Manchester United manager maybe in the future. If you stick around and you're part of two coaching staffs, let's say Amrim...

succeed and you're part of two coaching staffs that have failed at Manchester United I don't think there's a way back for you to be a manager of that club so I think it's the right decision for him to leave maybe go get a job in the Premier League or elsewhere and then see how he can deal with that What was the plan though? He came in in June wasn't it? Yeah Part of Ten Hag's team They were hoping that Ruud van Nistel was going to fix it all No he was part of Ten Hag's team It seems a waste of time How is it? If Ten Hag was still here he'd still be here

He was always on the way out. The manager's bringing in all of his own staff, do you know what I mean? No, no, he should be gone, but you've wasted his time. Six months. He wants to be there. But he should have... What was the promise? If Ten Hag was always on the way out, which he was, come on, you always knew... You don't make the plan to keep the manager and go, he's still on his way out, isn't he? You try and do the best to make his job more comfortable. Steve McLaren left. They're acting like Man United make logical decisions, though they just don't.

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Each week we dive deep into the key moments in football history that have shaped the game as we know it.

From notorious managers to pivotal matches, we go behind the scenes to bring you the best tales the game has to tell. Stories including one of football's most infamous match fixes, its first global superstar, or the rise and fall of Sir Alf Ramsey's England. Join us at Football University. Take a journey through football's amazing history. Subscribe to It Was What It Was Now. Right, let's get on to the season review then.

Let's start at the top. There's probably only one place to start. Luke, I'm looking at you. Manchester City. They're not at the top. They're not at the top, but... In terms of, like, big stories, that is the only place we can start, right? Is it a crisis, Luke? Never a crisis under Pep. He's never going to be under a crisis, never. For me, yeah, the last four games is a disaster. You look at those games...

The thing for me that's the big advantage is that it's three different competitions. The Carabao Cup, going out to Tottenham with Audrey Respect.

I wasn't too... Obviously, you don't want to get knocked out of a cup competition, but I'm not too phased by it. It's not like a season-ender. Then the Champions League game, you never want to lose that game. The two big ones are Bournemouth and Brighton, but for me, four away games in a row in 10 days, it's a lot of travelling. I know myself, it was a lot of travelling, so I don't know what the players have been through playing 90 minutes four times as well, but for me, it's not a crisis. If we lost another league game, for me, or another couple of league games, for me, that could become a big problem, but yeah, we've had these blips in the past and it is a blip for me and I think...

In a few months, we'll look back and go, that was... You haven't lost four in a spin since Stuart Pearce. Well, we've only teamed to win four titles in a row, mate, so I'll take that. Big old asterisk for them, though. I don't know about that, mate. Is there a little bit of you that is worried, though? Because obviously, before the last defeat, it was like one league game. It wasn't that bad. But now the fact that it's two league games... There's a concern there, obviously. You don't want to lose two league games in a row. But for me...

It's the squad. No Rodri being there. KDB's just getting back. Haaland's not quite getting the supply he needs, but...

I think this team has done it time and time again. People doubt us. Ruben Diaz said in the media recently, he said he wants people to doubt us. He said, please doubt us because every time we prove people wrong. So four games lost in a row. It's not good. No one's going to say it's good. But for me, two league games, five points off Liverpool. We've got to play them twice. So, yeah, it's not a crisis, but it's a concern. I take what you say, but do you not think it's been coming back?

Yeah, it has been coming. I've said this time and time again. We concede. We just keep coming from behind. We concede early goals multiple times. Brentford games like that. The Wolves game, last minute, we get out of jail in that game. So it's not just these four games as well? No, it's not just these four games, but I think within these four games, you could actually say at times we've been unlucky. We could have put Sport into bed by half-time. Brighton, if we get a second goal, that's game over. Bournemouth, we were by far not the best team. Bournemouth were better than us in that game, but

outside of that those four games were a little bit unlucky but we've been lucky at other parts of the season so for me yeah it's been coming it's definitely been coming but I think we'll get out of it and I think we'll be alright you only beat Southampton 1-0 didn't you so three points three points is it just as simple as you don't have Rodri and that is a massive issue it's not just as simple if it

that seemed, for me, we were talking about this last season, so why hasn't something happened? Why hasn't something changed? I think no one would have expected Rodri to get injured, obviously, for the whole season, but we brought Gundo back in. I don't think anyone saw that coming until right at the end of the window, and I don't think he'd have expected to get anywhere near as many minutes as he has. Kovacic and him have been kind of covering the position between them, but it's

It's difficult. You lose the Ballon d'Or winner, I think anyone's going to be in trouble. De Bruyne has barely played this season. Alvarez going as well. There's a lot of questions. This is a problem though, isn't it, in terms of Manchester City's recruitment. Because they win constantly, because they win the league every year and they obviously had that treble that's so iconic, it's really difficult to argue. It's really difficult to say Pep Guardiola's made a mistake because you look ridiculous because they win every year. It's Manchester City. But if you actually analyse the revolving door and the transfers that they've sanctioned,

they've made a pig's ear of it. They've brought in Mateus Nunes, that hasn't worked. They've brought in Calvin Phillips, that hasn't worked. They've brought in Mateo Kovacic, I don't believe that's really worked. They let the best player in the league, Cole Palmer, go. Imagine Cole Palmer linking up with Erling Haaland. Yeah. But he won the league. This is the problem, though. But you can win the league. It was last summer that was the issue. It's too simplistic. You're being too simplistic, Clare. Sorry. I see my...

Birmingham City outspent us last summer. That is quite shocking. It was Savinho you brought in from a club you own practically. So that was never going to be a difficult transfer to make. And then there was nothing else. One of the shining stars for me this season, you pointed Nunes last season. Nunes has been unbelievable this season. A lot of people would question him, but he's been scoring and assisting. I think he's five goals in a row he had a hand in. So like...

Do you not think that Man City are primed for a massive transfer in January? They need it. If you watch any of the documentaries, like the Fly on the Wall documentaries, the CEO who's actually leaving, or director of football, Chiki, he said, if you sign a player in January, something's gone wrong. Well, something is going wrong. That's what I'm saying, but we very rarely move in January, and I think we're going to have to. There's no doubt about it. Do you think the charges could affect that, though?

Nah. Nah. The thing is about the charge. For me, there's one black mark on our ownership in terms of putting a foot wrong in terms of the way they've led the club and that's joining the Super League. That's the only thing I can doubt them on. Since then, everything for me has been perfect. Providing they're innocent. Yeah.

That's why I have confidence. I have confidence in the ownership. Do you fear it's Pep's last season? Because the signing of Gundogan seemed very short-term. The thing with Pep is he didn't want Gundo to go in the first place. I think he would say himself it was probably a bad decision to leave. He's come back. Pep's obviously his contract's up at the end of the year. Personally, if you were to ask me, I think he'll do one more year to take it to 10 years.

but he could easily leave at the end of the year, who knows? And the thing that's big at the moment is a couple of seasons ago, we had a bit of a sticky patch before the November international break and that's when he did his

his contract extension to get him to where he is now. And the one before that was the same. So if he doesn't sign this November, he's gone. Maybe not as easy as that, but there's definitely a bit of concern. Are you worried because Amarim, at one point, it looked like Amarim was the next in the train. Yeah, it seemed like we've got the new guy coming in from Sporting. So it seemed like he was lined up, United sort of

Poached him. Maybe that was a decoy, though. We gifted him the FA Cup to keep Ten Hag in the job. Maybe that's another... Yeah, that's exactly what you did, isn't it? By the way, can I just say, they talk about Pep and Fergie a lot. Yeah. One player out of his system and he's absolutely scratching his bald head. Fergie used to stick John O'Shea, Phil Neville, Raphael Fabio in his midfield and still absolutely...

Batter teams, that's all I've got to say. Point-proven, Fergie's the goal. I'm not sure about that. Right, we're going to move on because we could be here for ages, couldn't we? Let's talk about Liverpool. Gareth, you've got a big old smile on your face, haven't you? Are you surprised with how well Arne Slot's done? Yeah, absolutely. When we talked about it pre-season, we were saying maybe a third place, fourth place round about there and we'd be happy with that and a challenge for the cup.

I didn't see a league title challenge coming, if I'm being honest, in his first season because I just thought such big shoes to step in in terms of Jürgen Klopp. Also, a change in how the clubs run as well because Jürgen had a lot of power at the end at the club.

slots come in as a coach and there's a structure around them so there's a lot of things there for me that could go wrong and then what Adam was talking about before was absolutely spot on about you have to be like this statesman all my you know everyone's looking at everything you say everything you do

And he's doing everything absolutely spot on. I think he's brilliant with the media. There's been no negative stories that he's generated. Even when he got booked for swearing, he made a bit of a joke out of that and everyone liked it.

And I think more and more, you know, people even who aren't Liverpool fans seem to be warming to him and liking him, that the players like him. He's taken on players' egos as well. So previously, you know, there seemed to be a little bit of a problem about Mo Salah that he wants to play every minute of every game. And how do you ever challenge that?

He's challenged it, he's took him off and he wasn't happy and Slott didn't care. Trent is another one where he's come off, had a bit of a paddy on the bench. He's just walked around, sat next to him, sorted it out. Coming from the Dutch league, coming from Feyenoord, Liverpool's a step up, the Premier League's a step up. Could he handle that heat? Well, he's more than handling it. He's made the best start of any Liverpool manager ever, which is absolutely brilliant. So, of course, I'm smiling.

Are you going to win the league? Well, we've got a chance, haven't we? You've got a great chance. You know, there's six clubs been in this situation since the start of the Premier League and we're now one of them. And the other five clubs that were in this situation, the other five teams, have gone on to win it. And we're now favourites to win it, albeit not odds on. Of course, you're never going to completely write off Man City or completely write off Arsenal, both capable of putting runs together.

Things can go wrong as well. There's always a randomness about football, isn't there, which I think we all like. So, you know, Rodri getting injured was a randomness for them. Something might happen to us. Touch wood, that obviously doesn't happen. But

But a lot's going right. And, you know, transfers in January got mentioned. I'm now looking at it saying, let's go and sign a couple in January because what a chance this is to go and win the league. Well, we wanted a number six and we've put Gravenberg there and he's been absolutely brilliant. He's been a revelation. And I think one of the good things about Slott is he's made a lot of players proud.

better in a short space of time. And Gravenberg's one of them. No one pre-season said, the solution for that role is Gravenberg. And then he stepped in there being superb. But I'd still, like we're playing him all the time, almost every minute of every game.

So, I'd still like us to go out and get someone. I don't know who that is. You can play in that role. You can pass. You can defend. You can tackle. All of those things. Because I'd be worried if anything was wrong with Gravenberg, who then steps in. Because McAllister's played there before, but for me, it's as simple as he's just not big enough to play there. He's a small stature lad. And you want a lad who controls that area. He isn't that lad.

So I'd still like us to go out and get that world-class number six. And if we could do it in January, that would be amazing. And then if that happened, I would be like, it's on. I still think it might be on, by the way, because I look around and I think, even in Europe as well, who is there really to be scared of?

People keep saying we haven't played anyone. We actually have played a lot of decent sides and emerged the other side of them. He's won 15 out of 17 games since he's been here.

Who's there to be scared of? Oh, whoa, whoa. Can you remember us last season? That's last season. Different times. I love how it's the Everton fan that... You still got us in December, so you've got something to be worried about. Last season, mate, we were playing school kids and winning cups. Oh, here we go. We were having loads of players sent off. We had one of our players' dad's got kidnapped. All kinds went on last season. And we stole...

We challenged for the title to Mayfield and we won a trophy. This time things are looking a lot more rosier in the Liverpool garden. Just from an outside perspective, I think I can speak on behalf of everybody, every family on this planet, how frustrating it is that slop's just come in and it's worked. Because you just thought, clop, it's over, now Liverpool are over for a bit.

We don't have to worry about him. Maybe Spurs could take their place in the top four. Probably not. Probably not, but maybe. It's amazing how quickly and easily the baton has been passed. So easy. It's so frustrating. He left him a good squad though, to be fair. Left him a great squad. Like a really, really good squad. I'm not saying he's not done unbelievably well. Has everyone convinced on him completely? He's won 15 in 17. But,

We've seen it start from managers before and sometimes it isn't always. There is that thing, like, if he is top of the league February, March, the pressure will obviously build and it's how he deals with that. But the football they're playing and everything seems to suit the Premier League. For me, though, you judge your manager when it goes wrong. You judge Pep when he loses four in a row. Can he turn it around? They did have that...

I don't think a blip is more of an aberration, wasn't it? They lost to Forest. People started asking questions. Losing at home to Forest from a Liverpool perspective was very underwhelming. But they immediately put it right. You look at the way that he's had an impact on individual players, the way that he's elevated individual performers. You're worried, aren't you? I'm not worried. For me, I'm just so thankful we've not played Liverpool yet. Because if you'd played us when we played Bournemouth, when we played Brighton, you'd have beaten us five. When you look at their squad, this is the frustrating thing that you were mentioning, Efren.

I don't really see where the floor is. So they've got an excellent goalkeeper who got injured. They've brought in Kelleher, who's going to come back. You then look at that defence and then you could probably highlight the brilliance of, say, Canarte. You think that he's sensational, he's playing out of his skin, he's just the perfect centre-half. He's not even their best centre-half.

Then you look at the midfield, which was supposed to be a bit of an Achilles' heel. Curtis Jones has become one of the best players in the league. Graven Birch has been redefined and almost reimagined his entire game. And then there's goals galore up front. Sorry, Mohamed Salah's what now? Ten goals, ten assists. Yeah.

he's become like the perfect team player. Where's the weakness? The weakness is when, what I'm saying is, when inevitably it goes wrong. Inevitably is a massive word to use there though. You'll lose a game, I mean, I think it's fair to say you'll lose one or two games before the end of the season. It feels so controlled.

though, don't they? He's got them playing such controlled football that it just doesn't feel like they are going to lose their head. Also, if they do lose points, it's not going to be the target you needed for last season. It's already a lower target and City are going to drop more points as well. And it's the way they borrowed from the previous regime as well. You know, the way that Jurgen Klopp would play. You saw, say, the goal that they scored against Aston Villa or the breakaway Salah goal at the end against Aston Villa.

That was very Klopp. It was 100 miles an hour. It was sort of very unpredictable and electrifying football. But then equally, they score goals that Phil's very honest about. It all seems very calm. It's not heavy metal football. It's R&B football. Yeah, it's controlled and it's calm. And I almost think one of the reasons the season I just mentioned last season, we burnt ourselves out. And that happened a few times under Klopp where because of the heavy metal football, because of the style he implemented...

There were times where we'd get loads of injuries or players would just look knackered. You remember when we played Chelsea in one of the cup finals. In the extra time, they didn't try because they were done. Your fans were on that for you. Yeah, they were done. They were just done and they were waiting for the penalty shootout to see if they could win that and fortunately they did. So I think it's more controlled. He's managing the minutes a lot better. He's taking players off a lot earlier.

He's rotating as well. And if you look at his record with Feyenoord, his team had a good record of getting people on the pitch and keeping them fit. And I think that's one of the reasons they recruited him. It's heavy metal to R&B, isn't it? It's gone from Metallica to like Randy and Monica. LAUGHTER

I looked at the table for the first time all season the other day.

And we were four points off third. Also 13th, but yeah. Yeah, that's the important bit. Don't say that bit. Four points off third. Well, one point behind you lot are amazing, by the way. Optics. It's all optics, isn't it? That's not optics. It is possible. Go on a little run. You never know what can happen. I think the aim should be top four.

Okay. I think it's doable. Do you? Yeah. Let's go on to Arsenal. Why that face? Well, I just don't know. Is it? It's full of doubt. It might be top five. Top five? Top five, yeah. Charlene, let's talk about Arsenal. Are you feeling okay?

Do you still feel like you could possibly win the league or is it over? Do you know, I've got mixed feelings because I know that we have got a team who are capable to compete with the likes of Liverpool and City. But with the way we got started, I mean, our first two games, we got off to a bright start.

But then we've been faced with consequences which are both in and out of our control. The red cards, for instance, you know, getting three red cards in, you know, every other match almost was quite disappointing from the team. But I feel like the injuries have hit us really hard

especially our Odegaard injury. As we saw in that game against Chelsea, we saw how much we actually miss Odegaard. So having him out of the team did really cost us a lot. I do feel like Liverpool are doing quite well. I mean, yeah,

this lovely Liverpool fans just given us the stats on how well slot is doing so far. So I feel like it's going to be pretty difficult for us to sort of close in on that gap because we don't know, you know, how the rest of the season is going to pan out in terms of injury, whether we're going to be able to keep our discipline and everything. So I feel like it is a bit of a long shot and

I am really disappointed because this could have been the season where we actually you know really pushed for the Premier League title. No team has ever won the Premier League from nine points behind after 11 games so I mean if you did it it would be remarkable. Does it

worry you how much Arsenal rely on Odegaard? It does worry me because we've got Kai Havertz for instance we've got Odegaard out of the team and then Kai Havertz is you know playing out of positions to sort of occupy the space that Odegaard would normally fill so it's quite concerning that

that one player makes such a huge difference to the team. But then you do think of Ethan Wanyeri, who's a good young talent, who we could have utilised during these games. A bit questionable as to why we didn't let him play more, because when you see him go out on the pitch, you see what he delivers. Yeah, he may be young, but he's a confident player, and his ball ability is just amazing. Do you think it's a mistake from Arteta in recruitment to be so reliant on Martin Odegaard

and have allowed Fabio Vieira to leave and for Emil Smith-Rowe to be doing the business at Fulham the way that he is when you have no adequate replacement for Martin Odegaard? Yeah, definitely. And we are definitely frustrated by that. You know, we've left the squad quite light. It seems obviously we weren't expecting Odegaard to be injured, but you need to make sure you've got cover in these spaces. Don't know if it was a case of just sort of bringing in Ethan and letting him...

you know, really gelling until the right time. It's hard to trust him though, doesn't it? Exactly. And that's the concern. But the thing is, he is confident. You know, you put him in these situations when he's coming off the bench and he delivers. You know, what game was it? The game against Newcastle where, you know, we played bad. Even one year he comes on and he looks like the best player on the pitch. When we played Hughes, I thought Hughes a miss and a goal scorer. I think that's for me, when I look at Arsenal as a neutral, I'm thinking...

where's your 20 goal, 25, 30 goal striker? If you had one of them, I think they'd be closer to going for the title. I mean, you look at the chance they missed against Chelsea in the last minute. You need a goal scorer. Exactly. You're not having Isaac, so keep your hands off. But that is what you're missing, isn't it? You need that person that is going to be able to hunt those balls down. Absolutely, because you look at our bench, you know, we need a goal. We're bringing on Jesus. Now, you know...

I appreciate all of our players. Three years ago, he was a dance bollocks to Arsenal fans, isn't he? But, I mean, Jesus comes on. He hasn't scored in how many...

He managed to get a go in the Carabao Cup, you know, for a lower league team. But we haven't got that firepower like, yeah, we're going to bring this person off the bench and they're going to get us some goals. You know what the problem is, though? You're a team full of centre-backs. What happened with that? They get it in the corner after five minutes when they go on and off. Honestly, it was against Liverpool. They had it in the corner on 70 minutes. People compare Mikel Arteta to Pepele, but they forget he was also coached by David Moyes.

He's got a European club for more reason than anyone else. You can't say he hasn't had zero influence on his career. David Moyes is a good manager. He must have learnt something. He must be somewhat disappointed. Are you Arteta out yet or not?

No, I wouldn't say Arteta out because I'm looking at everything that he's done at the club so far. I agree. And he's definitely brought us to a really good position. By the next episode of this. And in terms of all the defenders that we've got, what was that? By the next episode of this. No, I'm not going to say Arteta out. I'm definitely Arteta in. But if Liverpool were to, I hope it doesn't happen because it'll be 20-0, but if Liverpool win the league this year and it's the season City don't win it and it's not Arsenal that wins it,

That pressure's going to crank. I think it's already building. Yeah, it definitely is building and we definitely do feel it building for sure. And it does get to a point where it's like, OK, you've been in the job for how long? What are you going to win us? You know, people are forgetting that he has won the FA Cup, the Community Shield. These are still trophies. I wouldn't even play in the Community Shield. You can't count the Community Shield, come on! It still counts.

I mean, you didn't even qualify for the community. You came second in the league. You didn't win the FA Cup. You didn't win the league. You got in there free because we didn't have anyone to play. We're not just going to have a training session against our own team. That's free. Just quickly, talking about transfers, obviously, Edu has gone to Nottingham Forest, you know, the group over there. So who's going to be sorting out your transfers and are you worried about that? Yeah.

I mean, the timing of this all is quite annoying as well. Right before the January transfer window, Arteta signing a new contract as well. I didn't see this one coming. I know he'd been linked to a move beforehand, but I didn't see it coming, especially at this time in the

season. So I am a bit concerned as to what's going to happen in January. Hopefully, you know, we do manage to get some business done. There'll be a plan in place, you'd imagine already. But do you think Arteta's a bit of a power grab from him? That he wants more responsibility? Not that that's a bad thing, it's just that... It is, though. It's not a good thing, yeah. Because if you've had that in place, and I think they were really successful, Josh Kronkheader and stuff, then you give all the power to Arteta.

Mark, do you think it's an Arteta paragraph? It's not good. Look, I think the relationship between Edu and Arteta was very strong. So losing Edu, you could see it in some ways as Arteta almost being weakened, but I think it absolutely is, to be honest. There's a void there that will now be filled. And if you look, he was recently signing a contract. To be honest, to go on the track record...

Putting the trophies and stuff to one side, you can't deny that Arsenal are a much better team than they were five years ago. He is the sole responsibility, well not the sole, but he's the main responsibility for that. To empower him to an extent I think is fair. To be honest, I don't think they're out of it. I don't think they're out of it. I think Urdegaard's back. I think if you look at the games that they've got to come, it's a bit of a gap, but I wouldn't be surprised. City aren't going to get Rodri back anytime soon. Arsenal's players are returning.

I think there's still a chance. We hope and pray that Liverpool just drop off. I just don't know if that's going to happen. Let's talk about Everton then. Ryan, it's your debut as well, isn't it? Yeah, it is. It's my first time on here. Oh, welcome. APPLAUSE

Are you starting to feel a little bit more positive about the season? I am, yeah. I feel like players in the squad have identified the role, like Dwight McNeil in number 10 and Illiman Ndai, so positive. And it's such a great player to watch as a fan.

he runs towards the opposition goal it's nice to see in the club and you know things are brightening up you know last season point deduction but we've got a new stadium there's talk of new ownership it is positive does that help you does that help you feeling positive the new stadium the ownership it definitely does help but I feel like as a fan it's more like you can't look so far ahead you've got to go day to day especially when you're where we are in the table 16th so

It's hard. It's so hard because you want to look so far ahead in terms of new stadium or we might be getting new owners. You don't know what that can attract. But where you are on the table, you've got to go game to game. And that's what you've got to do. It felt like you were really starting to build and move in the right direction and then you lost to Southampton.

We did the same last season to Luton. They didn't win a game all season and then we just give them... I think we're just so generous in that way. We'll just give you some points, don't worry about it. That's happened legitimately every week at Tottenham as well. We'll get on to you in a moment. But has that worried you? It's not nice to watch when you obviously lose a game to the bottom of the league but...

It doesn't knock my confidence as a fan because you've watched us in games when we've dominated teams, but we just haven't held on to that result or the lead in the last third of the game and made us lose points. But we're coming up to probably one of the most difficult times of the season forever. And especially with the games, the run-up, we've got all the big teams, you know, it's just bum, bum, bum. And from the points we've collected from the start of the season to the points we're going to collect now, it's like...

I'm confident, but I don't know if that's me being a bias fan, but I'm confident. Do you worry about Sean Dyche at all? Do you think he's the man for the crowd? I knew this was coming. I knew this was coming. I don't worry about him. I just support him so much. Me watching the game with my dad from a young lad, whoever's in that role, I support him back, no matter what. If that changes at the end of the season when we're in a new stadium, but right now we need a manager and that manager is Sean Dyche.

He came in, offered stability. We had the points deduction. He kept us in the Premier League. That's positive. You know what I mean? It would have been completely different last season if that points deduction, we would have finished mid-table. I love that loyalty and support that you've got. Whoever's wearing that badge, you've got to back. Yeah, it's noble. But ultimately, is it the right... I appreciate from a fan's perspective, if you're in the Gladys Street, you're backing your team. I think it's a really noble way to approach it.

But, you know, sitting here today, we can kind of step back and just analyse, is he the right man for the job? Do you believe that Sean Dyche is the right man for the job? Going forward, I don't know. Because, like I said before, it's hard to look so far ahead...

We've just got to go game to game. They've got to stay in the league. Exactly. You see my point. We're getting a new stadium. They're speaking a new ownership. It's all positive. The new owners are going to be a problem for Dyche though. If they get in. I've seen their track record. Well, their track record with Roma is they're very trigger happy. They've got rid of Mourinho. Mourinho. De Rossi came in who was Roma's own guys. Djuric, I think his name, he lasted 33 days. They're trying to get Ranieri now in to fix the problems. I just think...

Is he not retiring? Yeah, they're bringing him out for Roma. So while that isn't finalised, I think Dyche's time will probably be limited if that happens, but not for this season. Yeah, I totally could agree with you, but I just think because we are so in a position of we need to stay in the Premier League and I am confident we will, it's just game to game. It's like we want to look so far ahead and be excited, but...

But we just can't afford to do that right now, I don't think. I think we just need to go game to game, pick up points and stay in the pen. What do you think about Calvert-Lewin? Because I just look at him and think he's got everything to be a great player. He should be scoring you lots of goals.

Sometimes, I mean, I'm not wetter than ever, and every week, obviously. But when I do... Don't shave your hair, by the way. I sometimes have a sneaky watch. But I watch him sometimes and think, if I supported them, he'd frustrate me so much. You do support us, because I think you watch us more than you say. Shh! Shh!

Don't tell anyone. I like Cavaloon. I actually do believe he's a great striker. I just think it's, you know, sometimes not going his way up front in terms of one-on-one chances, opportunities. That's what I mean, yeah. It's hard. He had a couple of unlucky offside... He had an offside one that was just off. He did a couple of penalty shouts. VARs are killing it. You celebrate a goal and me and my dad are grabbing each other and then VAR's like, no. And before you know it, we've lost the game. So...

Yeah, Dominic Alvalo, once again, I am just so loyal to my club. Whoever's wearing that badge, I just back until the end and until they leave that club. Then you boo them. You were the most positive Everton fan I think I've ever met. I was invited on this podcast by these three women and all they talked about was balls. Let's do this, come on. Go.

Welcome to our show, Not Just Football, brought to you by Skybet. We are being joined by a Premier League legend, David Ginola. Baby-faced assassin and major Chelsea fan, Harry Clark. Spurs loving, Dame Tracy Crutch. TV host, Scarlett Douglas. Subscribe and catch every episode of Not Just Football and more.

Dave, let's talk about Wolves then. And this is your debut as well. Yeah, it is, yeah. Wow! I see how it is. We'll give you a clap later. Why has it been so tough for Wolves and Gary O'Neill this season? Is it as simple as the fixtures have been really tough? That's obviously a factor of it, but I think in terms of performance, they've been so strange. We've had some...

really good elements to our game. I mean, in terms of goal scoring, we're, you know, in and amongst sort of teams in the top half of the amount of goals scored, but goals conceded, it's just been atrocious.

There's just been certain games, like Chelsea was one, went into that game a half-time 2-2 with a lot of momentum. Second half just completely fell apart, ended up conceding four goals, I think, in that second half. All pretty much identical goals for Madweke to get his hat-trick. Brentford, we completely fell apart. After that Brentford game away, when we conceded five, a lot from set pieces, I thought, I

I thought O'Neill may have been shown the door. They stuck with him after their last international break. We're unbeaten in three now. We finally got our first win on Saturday, albeit against Southampton. It was strange after Saturday because although we won, there was a lot of negativity. I'm a little bit like Ryan. I sort of wake up in the morning. I want to be positive, but the first thing you do is go on social media. Why is Gary O'Neill still the manager? Why is this happening? I was like, how can people wake up and go through their day just that negative attitude?

And I thought, to be fair to the club, they're obviously going to give him this international break between now and the end of the year, up until the new year. Every game we play is against a team in the bottom half, albeit it's against teams like Spurs United. That's not a dig, sorry. There's tough games in there, but certainly there's still games that I would say are winnable for Wolves between now and the end of the year. The thing is, though, if you look after...

Boxing Day or into the new year, the fixtures then go really, really tough again, don't they? So do you think if the club is going to make that decision to get rid of Gary O'Neill, surely they need to do it sooner rather than later so they can give the new manager a chance to sort of...

Yeah, it's a strange situation because I think this window now, the international break, would have been the perfect time to replace him. But on the back of three games unbeaten, it's very rare that you see a manager sacked, especially after losing the week. It's happened. I think Norwich did it a few years ago. It's happened. But I hope we don't get to sort of middle to end of Jan and Wolves are still lingering down the bottom three. And I think, oh, maybe we should have pulled the trigger, you know, in November. But I

You know, for now, got to stick with him. He's got good ideas. Like I said, we've got really good elements of our game. I think he's getting the best out of players. Mateus Cunha, I think, still looks fantastic. Gomez in midfield is sensational. And Nuri on left-back. Yeah. See, hey, Nuri, he sort of comes and goes. Like last week against Palace, I thought he was poor. But then again, Southampton, he was amazing. Midfielder, João Gomes, has really stepped up again. And you were talking about number sixes for Liverpool. I really wouldn't be surprised to see players like João Gomes linked with big moves away. So, in terms of individuals...

I think we've got a really, really good squad there. I think he has been unfortunate in terms of how the fixtures have fallen, but this is the period now that he's got to be picking up points because if he gets towards Christmas and we're still in the same position, I think he has to go before January. Do you think that the board did Gary O'Neill a bit of a mischief? Like last season, say, Kilman, one of your best players, Pedro Neto has been brilliant for us and I'm sure that he did the business for you.

you've let both of them go in the same window and ultimately not replace them to the level. Yeah, it's been a weird one because we've actually lost our captain for the last four summers, I think. Three or four summers. Cody went, Nevers had gone, Kilman had gone. So yeah, the last three summers.

Kilman was a weird one because I think he was a good player. I think the best bit about Kilman was his availability. Very few suspensions, very few injuries. I thought at the time the money West Ham offered was too good to refuse for a player of that quality. Neto, again, is an interesting one. Phenomenal footballer and I'm sure you'll start to see that at Chelsea as well. But for Wolves, we can't afford to have a player of that quality only available for 20-25% of the season. If we can get that money, sign two or three players with that money and get a quality winger...

obviously never going to be as good as Pedro but available for 75 80 90 percent of the season that for walls that's that's massive so I don't think those two are the main reasons we're struggling I think recruitment has actually been okay but there's certain players Andre again a player that was linked heavily with Fulham and Liverpool in the past we've signed up he can barely get a kick in the team so I think on paper fantastic signing but obviously Gary O'Neill maybe it's one of those it's going to take him a few months to get used to the English game and break into the team but

I just hope that Gary O'Neill and the recruitment and the director of football are all on the same page because if we're just signing players because they look good but the manager's isn't one of them, it's only going to end up one way, unfortunately. Lee, let's move on to you in Newcastle because it feels like the vibes are back at Newcastle. It feels like you're starting to play like we saw last season. It just feels like it's back. It feels like it's good. Yeah, the last couple of weeks have been absolutely brilliant and I think the international break's coming at a bad time for us, actually.

considering the upheaval of off the field over the summer, and we're still waiting for a new chief executive officer to come in as well, with Darren Eales having to step down with the bad news that he's got, so well wishes to him, but

Last few games, obviously, we put out Rory's Chelsea at the Cup. Sorry, Rory, for that. And then we've gone on to beat Arsenal. Sorry for that. And we beat Forest as well, so I'm sorry for that as well. But I think the return of Alexander Izak has helped that. He's now back in the side and, you know, a striker on form. If we keep him fit, Newcastle will be there about, I think, come towards the end of Europe. I think at the end of season two, Europe, sorry. And I think we've got to go and invest in January, I think,

a right winger is must needed I know Eddie Howe was chasing Marky relentlessly over the summer I disagree with that I think we've got Sven Bottmann coming back now we've got Callum Wilson back

touch a lot of that wood because we need to keep them fit because if anything happens to Isaac we just don't score goals. If I feel like watching you that balance in midfield is so much better now that Joe Willock's back do you feel like that? Yeah I've said that on our channel on YouTube as well is that Joe Willock brings you energy brings you goals he gets you forward and we've got a lot of depth in midfield with Tenali being available this season as well Bruno's starting to look good the last couple of games he's

Gordon has been hit and miss a little bit and obviously we've got two young full-backs who are now in the full England squad as well. So we've got a lot of English talent in the side as well. But yeah, I think we've got to go and pinch Brian and Wemo from Brentford for me. We've got to go and make that signing. Interesting. And are you all fully behind Eddie Howe? 100% I am. Even I came on the show a couple of months back and I talked with England and they've had none of it. I said it's not going to go to England. It's not going to happen. Eddie Howe will stay. It costs too much to buy him out.

And I'm fully behind him. And I think the only, my only slight concern is that if he doesn't get Europe, I'm just a tad worried the PIF might kick him.

But I'm confident we will because the league is so tight. If you look at the league from third downwards, we're only a point off third. I know already a couple of people have already said that, you know, one win and we just had a couple of wins and put we're right back in it. So the league is so tight anywhere from third downwards. Have you seen the reports that Jose Mourinho fancies the job? Well, that's the link with Sir Bobby Robson in it because it's that, isn't it? Yeah.

I wouldn't want him, in all honesty. I wouldn't want Mourinho because we're on a positive vibe. We've had Mike Ashley for 13 years. Mourinho's...

I think he's past it. Nor the barge pole. I think he's past it. It's not even about that. It's just the energy. They haven't won a trophy for even longer than you. Why are you defending him? He's been at Tenier. He hasn't managed to walk up for ten years. I can't believe the snobbery. Like, Jose Mourinho is... The footballer's moved on from him. No, what? What's a postacoglu? They've left Mourinho behind and postacoglu is the zeitgeist. In terms of what Newcastle need, it's not someone like that. Someone who is a serial European Cup winner. He brings a circus with him, doesn't he?

Part of the circus is Silverware. They won a trophy closer to the Victorian era than today. It's genuinely closer to the Victorian era and they're sneering about Mourinho. It's wild. I think it might take him to the next level. I think Mourinho would be a great figure. Get the fans behind him. Mourinho with a fan base fully behind him. If you've got no qualms over his style of play and stuff, which I think has been his problem at some other clubs,

I think Mourinho will be great. Mourinho wins silverware at Newcastle United. And that's what they need. Remember, they've been waiting longer than you. For sure. I understand your point. But we had him, I remember. You would have won silverware with him. If you didn't sack him six days before a final, you would have won silverware with him. Yeah, I know.

Didn't Ryan Mason only lose that final 1-0? Hang on a second. The genius that is... We were playing Manchester City. Yeah, but if Ryan Mason lost the final 1-0... You don't want to. Don't listen to this. Do you not think Eddie Howe would be able to win Silverware with Newcastle? I think the restrictions of not spending has halted us because Chelsea have had it, Man City have had it. We haven't. We can't. Now, we'll sell to youngsters in what, June, just to please PSR. So...

Obviously, the case with Manchester City against the Premier League, we've obviously backed Manchester City, of course we have, and to say we can sponsor ourselves effectively with training grounds and... You shouldn't be able to do that, by the way.

I know you want it, but that's crazy. You can't just set valuations of your own. Well, Chelsea are selling their own hotels to Spun to themselves. I know, it shouldn't be allowed. You can't just go because they can do it and let us break the rules as well. It's not a good thing. Is it breaking the rules though? Yeah, it is. That's why you're trying to change the rules. Yeah, because we want to spend money. The rules weren't really brought in there to protect United and Chelsea.

Oh, you shut up. Well, go on, say Red Cartel. Go on. I won't say Red Cartel, but the rules were brought in. Yeah, the Illuminatis against City of Newcastle, isn't it? Jesus Christ. Luke, you can't talk about rules. Rory. Chelsea.

Give me a piece of paper that says, here confirmed by an independent panel, here are the charges that have been completely... Luke, we don't have time for that. We don't have time. I could just say, Rory's... I could make anything up about Rory and you'd go, they're the charges. I don't know. You're just in front of me, mate. I'm sorry.

I could make a sentence about anyone in this room and it wouldn't be proven. It's not proven. It's so loud. When it's proven, I'll shake everyone's hand and say, we have done it. I won't want to shake your hand. We should have gave him that clap earlier. He's never recovered. Rory, let's talk about Chelsea. If Enzo Moresca wins a trophy, will he get Manager of the Season?

I mean, it will depend on what else goes on in the league. But I think it's fair to say that Enzo Mresca is doing a very good job. I think it's interesting to analyse quite how well it's going because I saw that we're only four points better off this season than we were last season. And last season under Pochettino, it really didn't feel good around this time last year. You know, we're closer in points to, say, Everton than we are Liverpool.

but ultimately none of it matters. We're third in the league, we're winning games as a feel-good factor and I genuinely believe that we will qualify for the Champions League which I didn't think was even a conversation at the beginning of the season. So Maresca has done really well. I think we've ridden our luck at times. I think there have been moments that haven't looked particularly impressive. I think we've got one of the worst goalkeepers in the league but equally we have the best footballer in the league as well. So there's

there's quite a lot to be positive about. Do you think you feel more positive because maybe you didn't expect Maresca to be this good just because he was coming into a club with a million players and having to sort out that situation? That's certainly part of it. I wasn't particularly enamoured at the appointment. I felt it was slightly underwhelming. You know, a manager who...

Yes, he'd done very well at Leicester, but it was still a manager from the Championship coming to Chelsea. Obviously, I remember us appointing the young European super managers and that was always more appetising. So there is a different approach now, but Maresca is getting a lot right. The problem that we have is the squad that has been assembled, whilst at certain points, certain areas of the team...

We're electrified. We're brilliant. We're truly brilliant. And if you look at the interchange between, say, Nicholas Jackson, Cole Palmer, Pedro Neto, it's like dazzling football. You know, it's not drogba rob and duff, but it's still very exciting. But then there's areas of the pitch where...

I mean, like I say, Cole Palmer is the best footballer in the league. I honestly believe that Benoit Badia-Chile might be the worst. I think that Robert Sanchez is not a goalkeeper. I think he's just not capable of playing a goal. And there is a ceiling, and it isn't a particularly high ceiling, as to how high you can finish in a season if Robert Sanchez is anywhere near your first team. So I think, you know, when I'm listening to everybody talk about their team, I feel like people know. You listen to Robbo speak about Liverpool football.

And he knows exactly where he sits and what he expects. I feel like Chelsea had a great unknown this season. I feel like we're totally capable of finishing third. I feel like we're also capable of finishing seventh. I thought, coming into the season, I was like, am I going to think that Chelsea are going to finish fourth or am I going to think that they're going to finish 11th? It's exactly the same thing because you had...

Two different squads, basically. And you don't know how that's going to fit together and work together. But the thing about buying all those players is, and buying a lot of good players, is that you have 11 very good players, or 10, maybe. Yeah, yeah. So when it actually all comes together in a team, I think that's what we're seeing now, is that Maresca's managed to find a unit that works well.

And that is top four quality. Absolutely. And circumstance has been very kind to us. Like I said, we're only four points better off than we were last year. But this year we have the luxury of... Postacoglu's proved that Tottenham are a complete illusion. Arsenal have gone to pot. Manchester United are 13th in the league. So suddenly the door is ajar for finishing in the top four. Which, if Postacoglu wasn't an imposter...

that wouldn't be the case. If Arsenal had been doing what they should have been doing and maybe had... You should have said impostercoglis. Impostercoglis. Impostercoglis. That's a great pun. How did I say that? That's a shame. You made that up right now, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been hearing that literally for about a year. On him,

on him then. You nearly said on imposter Cogley, didn't you? On imposter Cogley. Let's get into it, Flav. How can you beat Aston Villa by that scoreline and then go and lose to Ipswich? Well, yeah, also, Manchester City did it three days earlier as well. How can we? Because that's what we do, isn't it? Dr Tottenham and all that nonsense. It's that nonsense, though, isn't it? Because it keeps happening. But the... The Ipswich game, we should have won. And...

If we had have done, we'd be sitting third in the league right now. And I know everyone's sort of saying something similar. You're just waiting, aren't you? Everyone said something similar, but a third place finish compared to a tenth place finish on one result, which was separated by a single goal.

the complete feeling about the football club. But inside, generally, and we've talked to people that listen to our podcast about it, and there's about 80% that are still Ange Postakoglu in. So as Spurs fans, we see the improvements in the work that he's doing. The style of play is fantastic. And the issues defensively that we had last season, while there are definitely some this season, are not the same. And you look at goals conceded, it's the same as Chelsea's, one more than Arsenal's, the same as City's.

But apparently we're defensively frail. But we've conceded the same amount of goals as those teams. And scored the most in the Premier League. You need to put a warning up here. This is like propaganda. This is fake news. This isn't accurate. They've lost five out of ten. Plus ten goal difference as well, which just shows you that we're in a false position. And at the end of the season, when we do finish in the top four, I told you so. The thing is, you're just so inconsistent, aren't you? That's the problem. Yeah. Why? Why?

It's tough to answer that one. Because he's managing in the Premier League and he's not managing the Yokohama Marinos or the Whittlesea Zebras. That's why. It's a different level. It's very lazy from you, that. What, knowing the Whittlesea Zebras? The Whittlesea Zebras. There you go. That's where he won his trophy. You know that guaranteed trophy in the second season? That's where one of them... If... Rory's been banging this drum for a long time and will continue to do so until we prove him wrong. I'm sure. Right. Yeah, which is fine. That's his job as a Chelsea fan. I would never lower myself to such cheap shots, but

That's what he is. That was a bit harsh. Accurate. Look, a lot's going right. We're just conceding silly goals. And...

And there's quality in that squad and a system and a chemistry that is evident that we haven't seen for a long, long time. So we just have to ride this out. Five games lost in 11 is a horrendous thing. You know, if you want to finish in the top four, you can't be losing that many games early on in the season. Do you think Ange is all right though with me? Because I feel like I want to give him a hug.

Like some of them interviews he does post-match when he's being beaten. It's like, you know, Dr. Death. He stares at the floor. Look, throughout his career, I've read there was a biography written about him and I've just finished it. And this is constant throughout his career. Any kind of defeat, there's an element to petulance to some degree. And he doesn't react badly to disappointment. And he doesn't like being criticised either. He'd probably pick this up by now.

So there are elements to him. This idea that he's a cuddly, friendly kind of guy, that's not true. He's ambitious and he reacts in a way that other managers perhaps wouldn't in the face of defeat. I just would say, though, that if Poster Coghlu does win at Spurs, he's not going to stick around if his history is anything to go by.

The fact that he's won everywhere he's gone, and I know you might demean the quality of it, but the relativity of it is it's the same game. No. It's the same game. You can't say I win everywhere I go and then your CV be the Yokohama Marinos and you use that as something. You just hear the team. You don't actually know the work that went into turning that club around. I do. I'm just saying it's not relevant to a Premier League conversation. It is relevant because it's the same sport.

Where is this... He might drop there, didn't he? Where is this second season trophy coming from then? There's going to be two. Cheers. See, morning. I can't see that happening. He's gone mad. I'm not going mad. I love it. What did you say? Top four trophy? I love it. You know what? We can win the League Cup, for sure. Two, three games from that. We can definitely win the Europa League. That's...

You can't. Why Europa League? Man United will stop you. You're not winning the Europa League. Why not? Because you're Tottenham. This is it. Yeah, but that can't be true. Just because we're Tottenham, we'll never ever win. I agree. That is true. It's not. It's nonsense. We will win one day. We have to. And the Europa League has never been a better opportunity than that, right? You've got Frankfurt. You've got...

Manchester United. You've got Man United, to be fair, and another one's just skipped my mind. Gallatasaray, obviously. But other than that, those group of teams, it's between those four. You'd go out to, like, Rennes or someone like that. Gallatasaray just beat you as well, right? Tough place to go, this. LAUGHTER

Greg, where are you? Let's talk about Nottingham Forest. You're fifth? You have had one hell of a season so far. Did you expect it to be this good? Well, I've waited two and a half years to tell the usual two on that sofa that we're not going down, so it's a shame they're not here today. No, just sat here disappointed being in fifth, which is crazy. Absolutely crazy for us. The result on Sunday, massive opportunity for us, and then obviously Chelsea Arsenal drawing and creeping ahead.

It's just dreamland. You know, we've spent so many years out of it. Just enjoy every minute of it. Is that what you're trying to do? What's it like? It's amazing. I sat here last year like that. I'm usually in that relegation corner. I won't call this a relegation corner. Nah, don't be putting over here, lads. I mean, we've got...

Players playing for England now, we've got, you know, debuts for Brazil. We're getting Edu from Arsenal just to continue with our push. And we've been told for years the ownership's not right and the way we're doing things is wrong. And we seem to be setting up everything. We're not just making a football team now. We've got, you know, a professional netball team. We're looking at basketball. We're doing everything that they do well in Europe. And I just can't see a limit for us now.

How far do you think Forest can go this season? Do you think you can stay up here? Because we're only in November. We keep getting told that we'll find our natural position over the next ten games, but nobody told us we were going to be fifth after the first ten games. So we've beat the likes of Liverpool, we should have beat Chelsea.

We're getting the results that we should do. We're one of two teams unbeaten away from home. It's only us and Liverpool, and that's not really spoken about. We're still being ignored, which, you know... You want that, though. Yeah, of course we do. You don't want the pressure to start building on you. Yeah, or else you end up, like, 13th. Wait, no. I'm trying to help you out here. You're chucking me under the bus. You know what? He's like... No, but it's just like...

We've got to take it. You don't know how long this journey is going to last. And eventually, Aaron is not messing about. He wants European football. He's had it for years with Olympiacos. The Edu thing is huge. I know it's not confirmed yet. I think we've got to wait six months. It's not just Forrest, though, is it? It's all of the clubs, isn't it? Yeah, but it's Premier League success that will be about his success. He's done it all with Olympiacos. Why has he left Arsenal?

He can't be earning more money at triple the wages. Yeah, triple the amount. He is earning more. And a senior role as well. Yeah, it's a promotion, isn't it, technically? So I just think we're doing the right thing. We're steadying the ship, we've made some amazing signings. We're not doing the 40, 30 signings that Gary used to talk about so much, but we're doing it right, and I think we're going to continue to do that. And how much credit does Nuno Espirito Santo need to get?

almost everything. You know, he had such a tough job after Cooper because Cooper was idolised by...

Things like after Fergie, all managers have been talking about it. It's so hard to come in. That's worse than what you did last time. Harry Cooper to Fergie. Is that Leicester? You know, what he did. You've rattled my head here twice. What Cooper did with Forrest was just incredible. Taking us from the bottom of the championship to the Premier League. So for a manager to come in, like Moyes did with Man Utd, it doesn't usually work. And it did do. And we weren't that excited about Nuno.

And he is a... He's not a character. He's not someone who's going to shout and scream. He's just getting on with the job and changing things behind the scenes carefully and methodically. And that's what we need. Mark, just before we finish, question to you. Who do you think is going to have the better season then, Manchester City or Manchester United?

It's mental, mum. What? I can answer that one. How can you? I mean, how are we judging in terms of league position? It's whatever you think. What year is it, 2020? I think by the end of the season... He covers Manchester, guys. Come on. I think by the end of the season, United will look back on it more fondly than City will, if that makes sense. I think City will finish higher, but I think they'll be disappointed that they didn't win the league because they won't, in my opinion. And United will be looking forward to

Red and White Army so yeah do you guys agree with that? not at all no calm down you'll be happier than City fans at the end I think they'll be crying about Pep leaving you won a Europa League how can United fans be happy with us winning five league titles in a row is my question because it's all an illusion and it stops Liverpool it doesn't matter from their perspective

Thank you very much. Thank you, Mark, for joining us on the sofa. Thank you for everyone being in the studio. That is it for another episode of Fan Debate. We will see you later.

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